Latest / Business Roundtable / Empowering Success: Building Capacity in Business & Teams

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Empowering Success: Building Capacity in Business & Teams · Business Roundtable

0:01
Welcome back to the Business Roundtable podcast. So glad to have you here.
0:05
David Carr with Steward your business where I own Individual Health, helping you as
0:12
a leader, lead yourself well and your team. And I've got back Doc
0:17
c Doxie. Would you introduce yourself once again to the audience. Sure,
0:21
this is curs Cochran here. We are actually a mergers and acquisitions firm and
0:29
we specialize in our E four system, as I've told everybody before, which
0:36
is really the four cycles of business ownership, and most businesses are actually in
0:42
the E three, which is enhancing their business. And that's kind of what
0:47
basically this roundtable is all about, is trying to increase your company's value.
0:52
Absolutely, absolutely, We're super excited to have you here. Curtis. Yeah,
0:57
we're going to talk. You know, we've talked last week, our
1:00
last time we met about effective team management, delegating. We've had some great
1:06
conversations in the past about navigating business culture and leadership, and so as Curtis
1:11
and I were talking tonight, we thought, you know, what's what's related
1:15
to that is your capacity in your business. How are you able to grow
1:19
your business? How are you able to sustain that. And so I'm going
1:23
to be kind of going through that where we will be going back and forth
1:26
and challenges us us as some questions and understanding here. And so as we
1:33
get into this, curtis you know this idea of capacity? Uh, and
1:38
what exactly that means in business and order we what we should be considering that?
1:44
What would you what would be your kind of definition when we're talking about
1:47
this in business and this idea of capacity? Well, I guess the first
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question I have is what do we mean by I mean? What what are
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your thoughts on that? David? What what do you mean by the word
2:08
capacity as it relates to business? That's a great. Well, well,
2:13
so for me to back another question that you asked, Yeah, that's okay,
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We're going back and forth because it's all right. I think this is
2:19
fine. No, I mean, so what I thought about this episode and
2:23
where we could go with this, you know, it was the foundation I
2:28
came up with was it refers to this, you know, collective capabilities and
2:32
resources available within our organization to achieve the objective. So what's what what do
2:38
we have? What's the capabilities? This includes a lot of different things which
2:40
we're going to dig into. It really is what is what's available to us?
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What do we have in order to do the objectives the work that we
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have? And so I'm excited to dig deeper into that, Curtis, because
2:54
I think some people may grab onto one thing or another thing, and I
2:59
want us to look holistic so that we're not kind of being blindsided as to
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what are are those capabilities? What do we have? You know? And
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oftentimes businesses will do like a statement of qualifications or capabilities, like here's what
3:15
we're able to do, and here's and here's the resources we have behind it.
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So it's really understanding all of those things and and what what are your
3:23
objectives? And and again do you have all those things necessary? And most
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of the time it starts with labor, it starts with people, and then
3:30
you have other other pieces in the mix there. But that's kind of my
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starting point, Curtis, and I'd love to get your feedback on it.
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Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I'll bring an example that I that
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I just had talked to h a construction company today about what we're talking about,
3:51
and they're are they're they're looking for funding, they're looking for investors to
3:58
come in and uh kind of give them a not necessarily a lifeline, but
4:01
they just need they need capital. But the problem is, or at least
4:08
one of the things that we addressed, are they capable of taking this new
4:15
capital and really increasing the value of their business? And that's always a question
4:24
that is asked by investors when they are asked to invest into a company.
4:30
Do they have the infrastructure, if you will, in the business itself to
4:38
move the company from point A to point b? And these kinds of questions
4:46
are asked all the time, and and do we have answers for them?
4:49
Well, do you have the talent to actually take your company from point A
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to point b? These are difficult questions. And so when when I,
5:03
you know, you asked me about capacity, that's kind of the direction that
5:08
I was kind of going is how can how can we move a business from
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being you know, average at best too to above average? And do they
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have the resources? Uh? Geez, are they going to call you,
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David and say, hey, can you come in and help us with with
5:32
moving our company from average to to above average? But you just can't throw
5:39
money at it, not even not even close. Uh. And and really,
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let's let's be honest. What you have to do is each each key
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player in all of this has to look inside and and ask the question and
5:59
and I good enough to actually take and be in this position to move the
6:03
company from point A to point B. Right, And it's a tough it's
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a tough question for sure. Yeah, I mean you you you know,
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I've heard you know, you hear in different companies where they're being you know,
6:18
turned around because they're either being underutil they're underutilized, or you have to
6:23
get it's not being well run. They don't have the right people right in
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the right seats. Possibly they haven't adapted. So these are these are all
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different elements. You're right, You're right, it's not easy. And sometimes
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we might be pouring money into one thing thinking that's the solution and it's not.
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If we're not careful, we're blindsided about that. So yeah, I
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mean, it's all of those things, Curtis. We're going to delve deeper
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into the kind of the technical skills, how do we get those, how
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do we foster adaptability, innovation, support this culture, and how do we
6:58
practically build steps here to increase capacity. So hopefully, as you guys are
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listening in tonight and we love your comments and feedback, So as you listen
7:05
in, please drop in comments to to the this We will love to hear
7:13
from you. I agree with you. It's really crucial Curtis in this this
7:19
understanding of like how do we make this successful? And I've seen some businesses
7:29
where they they grow too quickly, right, and then they're like they they
7:34
are, they're doing well, they're making whatever their their widgets right, and
7:39
it gets and so in demand, and they don't have enough capacity to support
7:43
it, and then they actually try to and then actually implodes the business.
7:46
They actually can't do that. I've seen that, for example, even in
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my background and environmental consulting, and people are key. And if you don't
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have, like you said, you're not planning for it or forecasting for it
8:00
to increase your your your employees and of course your payroll and everything else like
8:05
that and taking advantage of the market. But if you can't, like you're
8:09
not prepared for that, how to how to get that it can it can
8:13
be really difficult. And so and finding the right people right in the right
8:18
time. You go, you go after a contract, Oh I really want
8:20
to get this work. It'd be awesome to do this work. We win
8:24
the work, and we don't have we don't actually have the people necessary to
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fulfill on that contract. Yeah. Absolutely, And you know, if I
8:37
can chime anywhere, I saw something today that that was really fascinating to me
8:43
as well. And it kind of fits into this because the Super Bowl,
8:48
of course it was a few weeks ago or whatever, and the Kansas City
8:54
Chiefs of course one and everybody and knows that. But what was really interesting,
9:01
what was really interesting, they did an internal survey with the with the
9:09
NFL players, and it would surprise you that that to work at each one
9:20
of these NFL franchises, they listed the top NFL franchise that you would love
9:28
to work. They have company culture, they have you know, they spend
9:33
money, they do all of these things. And what is really surprising is
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that the Kansas City Chiefs were second to the bottom. Wow. Yes,
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And and that's really interesting to me because now again I just saw the data.
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You you know, being a math guy, you just don't know.
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I'd have to ask a lot of questionquestion. But I thought it was really
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interesting because maybe they're maybe their company culture is not really the best, maybe
10:09
their facilities not the best. Maybe a lot of these things go into play.
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However, now even with that said, they win a championship, So
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there there's something there that they don't care what is in front of them.
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They're going to succeed. And I think that that's the kind of the mindset,
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or shall we say, the mind shift that the business owners need to
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take is Look, I may not have the talent, I may not have
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the resources, I may not have all of these things, but we have
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to find a way to you know, push forward if you will. Well,
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I think there's there's different ways you can, you know, like you
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said, adjust that, I mean getting into being a aptible and innovative using
11:01
technologies in different ways you can, like you said, counter you know,
11:05
fill balance that out if you will. But the the reality is you have
11:11
to be paying attention to these things and the more forward looking you can see
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and you know, look at more lead indicators versus lag indicators, meaning I'm
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looking behind myself and seeing what's happened, but like what's indicating where I may
11:26
need to be able to position myself to increase the capacity, support the capacity.
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And I work with this business owners all the time. Curtis on this
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you know, forecasting, we're trying to look and anticipate, right what is
11:43
to come and how can we how can we address that. That's the whole
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point of this podcast, this episode is to help you make sure that you
11:50
are in that sweet spot of capacity where you're able to meet all of the
11:56
all that's coming in and have the ability to grow upon that at and so
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you know, it's like, for example, Curtis, we had this experience
12:07
where we were working as a small business, but we had one one client
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that was a majority of our work. Well, that's not good, meaning
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if that client goes away, we're in trouble, right. But it's like
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we don't want that, we don't want to like we will still want to
12:18
maintain that work. We want to add to it, we want to be
12:20
able. So then it diversifies, becomes less of the total portfolio. So
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it's understanding as a business owner, it's like, Okay, how do I
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diversify enough, right, increase my capacity of clients, my number of clients.
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Maybe the work, the exact work, type of work you're doing is
12:35
exactly the same. It's just diversifying that you're you're increasing your capacity for just
12:41
your client tele right, and so being intentional about that, being aware of
12:46
that. But you've got to know your numbers, like you said, Curtis
12:50
as a math guy, and ask those questions. Yeah, I think I
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think it boils on too obviously asking the right questions, but gathering the data.
13:07
But being a small business owner because if you if you're working with a
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lot of clients that are small business owners, they wear so many different hats
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that you know, I've always said that when you have employees, five employees
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or less and you have the owner, really the company culture is really whatever
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the owner believes. I mean, that's just kind of the way it is.
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So the larger, you know, you grow, it's so important.
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That's why we talked about culture on this on this podcast. But yeah,
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you know it's really difficult. But the first part of this whole thing you're
13:48
talking about capacity, I think that I think that really is the key is
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where you know where are we at and and can in fact we grow right?
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I you know, since I am in the merger's acquisitions, I one
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of the strategies we always use is that if you really want to grow,
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you want to you want to buy buy out your competitor. That's that's the
14:13
fastest way you can do it. You can grow and many people do that.
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And and by the way, eventually I tell them that you might be
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buying out companies to grow, but eventually you're going to be bought out,
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and you have to understand that. And that's in in in these podcasts.
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That's exactly what we're trying to actually do, is to get these people to
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think that not that you're going to run this business forever, but you want
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to try to run it so so somebody will buy you out. Right,
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That's the key. That's the whole key about these podcasts and what we're talking
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about even tonight. Yeah, we want to make it so that, yeah,
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it's desirable that you want to, like you said, be as saleable
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as possible, not that you have to, but that that, like you
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said, that is so important, and that we keep that in the forefront
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of our mind. Otherwise you just have a job. That's yeah, and
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you're you're absolutely right. I mean, that's it. And and unfortunately,
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I'm sure, like Curtis you know this firsthand. There's people that have owned
15:28
owned a business, but the reality they just owned a job. And when
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they actually write a seller or something it's really not worth much other than than
15:33
them. I mean, yeah, yeah, we get that. We get
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that all the time. Yeah, yeah, we do. And that's why
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you what you try to do. And have said this before about the hub
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and spoke, I mean, you try to stay away from being the hub
15:50
of everything, you know, being the business are talking to distributor you know,
15:56
and suppliers and all of those things. You have to start training people
16:02
to actually replace you. Yeah, and that's kind of again part of your
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capacity. Maybe you don't have. You don't have the internal uh manpower if
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you will, that can actually do what you want to do. And so
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you're going to have to find other people. And that's costs money, costs
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money exactly, and that's a good good. Well, we'll come into technical
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skills and expertise. But one thing you had mentioned to me about, you
16:32
know, your specialty and murders and acquisitions and and I've seen this firsthand too,
16:36
Curtis. I mean, the quickest way to grow, right, like
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you said, is acquire you can you can you automatically grab this force and
16:44
you can pull thement now. But and I think it's probably I'm bringing this
16:48
up because I think this will be another great episode Curtis will have to come
16:49
back to because I've seen that not done well where it's been acquired and and
16:56
and the idea is to increase capacity, that's the goal. But if it's
16:59
not done well because there's a disconnecting culture and understanding, and then there's a
17:02
whole bunch of you know, potentially infighting or challenging in there. The culture
17:07
is not a match that could it actually reduces your capacity. The whole idea
17:11
is to expand your capacity, but in the short term it actually decreases your
17:15
capacity potentially. And I'm sure again we could probably have a whole other episode
17:18
just on that. Oh yeah, no question, no question. I agree
17:23
with you. Yeah, I think coming. So you know, we love
17:27
coming up with different ideas here and if you guys have other ones as you're
17:30
listening to us, please try me and leave comments. We welcome them.
17:34
So to your point, though, Curtis, you're talking about the right people,
17:37
and I wanted to talk about technical skills and expertise, particularly in professional
17:41
services. You know, in order to grow, you know, having the
17:47
right mix of people in your team. And so if you're not acquiring you
17:56
know, a company, there's ways we can bring in technical expertise into our
18:03
company right to help expand our capacity. So just you know, I'd love
18:07
to get your input on some different ways you've seen, Curtis in the way
18:11
the companies have been able to do that and bring in the necessary technical skills
18:15
or expertise. Well, you know, of course, technology has really really
18:22
helped small business, actually all business really. But one of the things that
18:30
that that I see is that that people businesses are still struggling with the technology
18:41
and what they're struggling. They're struggling with it. I mean, they're working
18:47
with it, but they can actually do so much more with their technology,
18:52
their platforms and and so forth. But it takes it takes effort, takes
18:59
work, work, and a lot of these businesses are kind of holding back
19:07
and fear who knows dollars resources? Uh. And and the owner can't can't
19:15
do everything. Uh and even top you know, top management, you have
19:21
to train, shall we say, the train train trainers have to train the
19:26
trainers, and you know, and and and and all the way down.
19:30
But you have to send money on R and D. I mean you have
19:36
to do that. And and for small business it's tough to to actually not
19:41
only have the money, but who do you who do you look for to
19:45
do that for you? I mean, how do they find a David Carr
19:52
you know, uh to help you with that. I constantly have a conversation
20:00
issues with business owners and I asked them, do you want to increase the
20:04
value of the business. When I asked them that question, I don't know
20:08
if they really understand what that question really is and what it means. Because
20:17
let me ask you. If you're a business owner and I said, okay,
20:22
do you want to increase your value of your company up to seventy one
20:26
percent in twelve months? You know? I mean the first thought is,
20:33
well, how are you going to do that? You know? Well,
20:36
we're talking about it right now, we talk about it on this podcast.
20:41
Each each one of these podcasts is telling you a secret. Well I don't
20:47
even want to say it's a secret, but just a little niche of what
20:51
you could do to enhance your business each and every time. And all businesses
20:56
are different, but yet they're the same. And how are they the same?
21:00
Well, you're making money. I mean it's simple. It's that when
21:07
I ask people why are you in business? There their first their answer should
21:15
be I found a problem in our society or in our city, or you
21:22
name it, and I am fixing that problem if I happen to make money
21:30
on it, which that's why I'm in this. For those two things,
21:36
you are going to be successful, okay. But if you're just doing business
21:38
because you're just going to make money, well, that's that's not that's not
21:42
really the ticket. The reason why I bring that up is that when you
21:47
start talking about capacity and really what you do for solving problems okay, And
21:53
that's what our business is all about, is solving problems. And so let's
21:59
look at the problems and let's solve them. But how do we solve them
22:03
better? That's the question is how can we do it better? Not so
22:10
much of you know, our competitors, but how can we do it better
22:12
for us and our customers. Yeah, that that's so very powerful, Curtis.
22:21
And yeah, I mean what we're sharing here, I hope you guys
22:22
are taking these nuggets from our years of experience here. Yeah. Yeah,
22:29
this is this is why you have come in and help business owners and their
22:32
teams. There's different ways we can do it better, and depends on where
22:38
you're at and and and and the team. But for me, I'll just
22:42
talk a little bit about this as far as the techno. How do you
22:45
get that that team to do it better? Well, there's ways you can
22:48
do it both internally and externally. I think it's really really important that you
22:55
have clear again goals, what what Like you said, what's the problem me
23:00
solve? Curtis what you're talking about? Okay, Well, these are the
23:03
these are the services or the products that we offer, and we will how
23:07
do we improve them or make them more effective in helping our clients solve their
23:14
problems? Right? And so I'll give you an example of one I had
23:18
just had today. I had I work with a client and an up and
23:22
coming project manager, and she was dealing with a client that was obviously frustrated.
23:27
And so what I did was I met with her when we reviewed this
23:32
email we workshop did, and I mentored her and I said, you know,
23:34
here's how to respond and here's a course of action. And so I
23:37
was helping her develop her own skills as a project manager. And I'm coming
23:41
in as a kind of coaching consultant in guiding her. So I'm external,
23:45
I'm hired on as a consultant of this company to talk and meet with their
23:48
staff as these issues come up. They haven't a resource. They're not stuck
23:52
in the company like I don't have anyone to talk to, or everybody's at
23:53
my level or below, there is nobody else for me to learn from.
23:57
I don't know where to go. So I'm this is a company like you
24:03
were talking about earlier, Curtis, Like it's being proactive and realizing I need
24:07
help, I need help develop my team, I need help to you know,
24:14
adapt them. And so there's external and then I work with in this
24:18
on the same talk and I flip it around and I help them internally look
24:19
at their team and their team. We're looking at workshops and professional development,
24:25
and it's like, well, how do they evaluate what classes or trainings these
24:30
these employees need to get right? And so we help them and we evaluate
24:37
them and what what's what's in the alignment with the company, because I,
24:40
for example, had another had another example today where one of the employees was
24:42
asking about a certain type of training that wasn't quite in alignment with what the
24:48
company is where this company is going. It's it's parallel, but not exactly,
24:52
and so it didn't make sense to investing in developing that skill set.
24:55
Now they may be good for that person individually, but it's not doesn't make
24:59
sense with where the company is going. And so we got to be careful
25:03
about, you know, identifying where do we want to train people, invest
25:06
dollars and time that it's going to actually really benefit the business in the long
25:10
run. But that comes down to, like you said, the business we
25:12
are being very clear on this is my goals and objectives. This is where
25:15
we want to go, this is where we want to expand. If it's
25:18
a service area, let's just say, well, we're going to need more
25:22
agents or we're going to need more people that had this skill set, so
25:25
we better be training them. We better be having capabilities here, because there's
25:27
no way we're going to be able to grow and expand the capacity for not
25:30
being intentional. And in fact, there's a company that I was working with
25:36
for a time and they're a big company. I don't know a few thousand
25:41
people at Curtis and they they said to me at one point they they for
25:47
whatever I'm in the exact reason, but they just stopped recruiting for like eight
25:49
to twelve months of like college like entry level graduates, they're like, we
25:55
just got enough people, and they didn't. They just they just kind of
25:57
took their foot off the gas. Well, you're late. They realized they
26:02
were they were short, they didn't have enough people because they weren't active.
26:04
They stopped recruiting and they start bringing in even though they're entry level people.
26:10
They just took their foot off their gas. So really diminished their capacity because
26:14
they weren't you know, they weren't paying attention to that and identifying where they
26:18
might have gaps coming forward, right, and so you know, like when
26:26
we're looking at bringing on people, it's really important to get the you know,
26:36
identifying clearly what you need because I've here's another thing too, I've I've
26:40
worked with many recruiters. Right, recruiters are paid to find technic, great
26:44
technical people and expertise. But I've worked with recruiters that bring me people that
26:48
don't match the company and not what I need because there's a disconnect. I'm
26:52
not clear to the recruiter or it's it's fuzzy and so they're kind of,
26:56
well, this person might fit, well that's not it. So you have
27:00
to read really clear as a business owner, what are the specific skills and
27:04
abilities you need now and in the future too, because you're like, you
27:10
can't just hire for today. It's like what do you what? What are
27:11
they going to grow into? What's their career path? And again, I
27:18
think a lot of business we talked about this in a couple of episodes,
27:21
episodes of roles and responsibilities that you know where if you're not clear on the
27:25
roles that you need and oftentimes you're like, well I don't have a person
27:29
for that. That's okay, put it in your org chart, Like you're
27:30
going to need this capacity, right, You're going to need this role right.
27:37
And you know, I'll tell you one thing that that businesses moving at
27:42
a rapid pace and that's where technology is going to have to run parallel to
27:51
human development, and we are really lagging in that area. You mentioned recruiters,
28:02
Yeah, I talked to recruiters as well. And you know, what's
28:06
on a resume is one thing, but what's really out there is another.
28:11
And I'll tell you you have to make the decisions and you have to run
28:18
with them. But if you if you if you ask the right questions,
28:25
this is going to help you grow. If you ask the right questions don't.
28:30
Don't try to answer something without asking the right questions. Then you can
28:36
actually answer. Now if you don't know those questions, that's why they hire
28:41
people like yourself to ask those questions and help them ask those questions, because
28:48
it's all in the question. It has nothing to do with you and I
28:52
sitting here talking about all these things. Let me hear some questions. Even
28:57
with the you know, the people that are listening to this podcast, you
29:02
know, ask us questions because I can tell you that we may have an
29:07
answer, we may not, but at least we can sit around a round
29:14
table, right yeah, and bounce off ideas because you're you're going to have
29:21
to ask those questions, and those questions are the key to success in my
29:25
opinion. Yeah, exactly. No. And again, if for those of
29:29
you listening to Curtis and I tonight or go back to previous podcasts, we've
29:32
got numerous guests, all of us are available to reach out to us.
29:36
Like I said, leave a comment message es directly. You know we will.
29:40
We will personally respond. That's the way we are are about. And
29:44
then we can see, like you said, if we are if we if
29:47
we have a good fit or a resource that we can point you to,
29:51
right you know, I mean there is so much technology, like you said,
29:53
and things are evolving, and I think that again this idea of fostering
30:00
adaptability and innovation to help our capacity, right. Uh, new tools that
30:07
are being developed, and everybody knows hopefully if you've if you've been around the
30:11
last year and a half or so, you've heard something about AI for example,
30:14
or chat, GBT or whatever. These are just new technologies. There's
30:18
always a new technology, right yes. And and by the way, these
30:23
people that are developing this technology, they're the ones that are asking the questions.
30:30
They're asking right questions for sure, Yeah, and they're trying to they're
30:36
trying to create business, a business for those needs. And that's what we
30:41
do. Yeah, So you know we can help you in those areas.
30:45
There's so much more we could go in in here, but I want to
30:49
just let you guys know that as you're listening to this the Business round Table
30:53
podcasts, and candidly, if you're interested and you want to be on the
30:56
podcast with us, you know, we welcome other guests. We like to
31:00
hear other voices because again, like you said, Chris, we don't know
31:03
all things we're going to show you what works for us and when we know
31:07
as has success. But we're always learning and again just looking on innovation and
31:15
technologies and how we can leverage those. There's always great opportunities there. And
31:21
so what we can do to help you as a business owner or leader in
31:25
the organization, be cognizant of these things, be intentional about these things.
31:29
Right, you're going to be able to create a more supportive culture in your
31:33
organization. You're going to create something that's more sustainable. And like you said
31:37
earlier at the beginning of this podcast, Curtis, is like something that's actually
31:41
saleable, something that somebody would actually want to buy because they see it's it
31:45
is a money making machine because it solves such great problems. Right, Yes,
31:51
absolutely, that's perfect. I tell you what if you can if you
31:55
can build a business that solves problems and you get paid hands for it,
32:00
that's the best business to actually sell. For sure. There you go.
32:05
It's not necessarily just but but just selling. I mean, you can pass
32:09
it on with a esop or whatever, but ultimately there's a transition, and
32:14
so you build it to make that transition. For sure. So just as
32:20
we're wrapping up here. Just some things to think about here in practical steps
32:24
that you can do to make sure you're building the capacity. You look,
32:27
do what I call capacity oddit or just evaluating some of these things we talked
32:31
about. Make sure you have clear objectives right and what you're actually trying to
32:36
build capacity for. What are your targets? You know, making sure we
32:38
talked about like how do you invest, like Curtis, what what would that
32:42
look like? Or to make the product the company that much more profitable,
32:49
you know, making sure that we're what we're doing here is establishing collaboration and
32:53
encouraging one another sharing knowledge. And then we review these things regularly. Uh
32:58
you know right, absolutely so all the time. Yeah. So as we
33:06
wrapping up, Curtis last thoughts, as we're you know, just finishing up
33:09
this episode. Yeah, you know, back to the you know, back
33:15
to what we started with, you know capacity. I mean, everybody,
33:19
every every business owner looks at this and they can we take and take our
33:25
team, our business to the next level. You know, it's a difficult
33:30
question to answer whether or not you can or cannot do it with it existing,
33:37
you know, grow it organically. So what I always say is that
33:42
you might look elsewhere, look for people like yourself, David, you know,
33:46
consultants that can actually help you grow organically, or or you look look
33:52
to acquire a business and and that's how that's how you're going to grow and
33:58
eventually you're going to exit. So therefore grow your business in that in that
34:05
mindset for sure, absolutely lead lead it wells. We'd like to stay here
34:09
the Business round Table Podcast. Thank you so much dot C for for joining
34:14
us again. Yeah, it's been great. If this really resonated with you
34:17
guys as you listen that, please leave us a review, share this with
34:22
others. We welcome the feedback. It's just an honor to be able to
34:25
share and connect with you. And until the next time, till the next
34:30
Bustans round Table Podcast. Thank you so much. This is David Garcating.
34:32
Good night, Thanks bye,