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Legally Brunette Presents: ‘Til Death Do Us Part - Mike Williams · Legally Brunette

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Welcome to an episode of Till Death Do
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Us Parts. I'll be your host, Emily Simpson with Shane Okay,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: so today we are talking about this is. I actually
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: knew the story before, I think, because I had seen
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: it probably on twenty twenty or something like that, so
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: I was familiar with it. But it is a series
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: on Hulu called Mister and Missus Murder, And when I
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: started watching it the other day, I was like, oh,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: I know this story. I have seen this before. So
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: it's very interesting. We're going to talk about high school friends,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: seems to who end up not being friends anymore.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: So.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: The victim's name is Mike Williams. He was a thirty
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: one year old real estate appraiser from Tallahassee, Florida, and
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: he disappeared on December sixteenth of two thousand after leaving
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: for a duck hunting trip at Lake Seminole. We're talking
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: about Florida, all right, so geographically we are now in Florida.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: His boat and some hunting gear were found, and authorities
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: initially ruled the case and accidental drowning, though his body
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: was never recovered. Mike's mother spent years pushing officials to reinvestigate,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: believing his death was suspicious. The case took a major
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: turn years later when Mike's best friend Brian Winchester, who
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: had married Mike's widow Denise, confessed to killing him and
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: led investigators to his remains. Brian Winchester said he committed
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: the murder at Denise's request so they could be together
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: and benefit from a large life insurance payout. So we've
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: got all the key players. We've got best friends, we've
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: got affairs, we've got swamps and alligators, and we've got
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: life insurance policies. So this is in the nineties. So
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Mike Williams marries his high school sweetheart Denise, and this
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: is in nineteen ninety four. So you got this. You
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: got Mike and Denise.
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: Okay, you graduate.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Yes, I graduated from high school in nineteen ninety four.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: Thank you for reminding everyone how old I am. Wait,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: you graduated before I did.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: Ninety three.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Yes, so you're older than I am.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: That's why you should listen to me.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, sir. That same year, their best friends from
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: high school, Brian and Kathy, also got married. So we
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: have Brian and Kathy, and we have Mike and Denise.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Do you see how I'm laying this out for you
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: because I know you're going to be like, wait, who's Brian.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: No, I'm paying attention.
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: There's two couples, two couples high school sweethearts, yes, get married, yes,
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: and they're all friends. What state are we in?
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Florida?
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: All right?
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: So both couples settle in Tallahassee, Florida, near where they
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: grew up. Brian and Kathy welcome a son, and Denise
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: and Mike welcome their daughter just nine months later.
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: So both couples have Wow, they're really a fallow the
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: same timeline.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Mike works as a real estate appraiser and his
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: best friend, Brian mortgages no insureance. Oh that's a key
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: key fact right there. You need foreshadowing, a little foreshadowing, right. Also,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: you know what I read. I read that Mike when
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: he was working as a real estate appraiser, and this
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: is in the nineties, that he was making two hundred
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: thousand a year, which was pretty good.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, still pretty good.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: It's still pretty good. But I'm talking about in the
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: nineties and then, you know, right out of school, and.
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: So he was doing well well, I questioned his business practices.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Now, no, he gets murdered.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Oh this is a victim.
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: Yes, okay, so the victim is a real estate.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: Agent, no real estate appraiser.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: Appraiser.
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: He's making two hundred thouandars a year as appraiserraise the
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: insurance was making twenty thousands. No, well this makes sense. Yes,
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: he was the market. The market. Everyone wanted their house
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: a praise.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: Is this in the early two thousands?
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you remember this? No, I remember the market, a
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: real estate market.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: It was booming in two thousand.
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Wait, why do you know this? Tell me because I
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: pay attention.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: To the thousing market.
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying the housing market was booming.
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: Okay, so yeah, a real estate appraiser was much needed
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: all over the place, making good money.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: That's all I was getting it.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and his u's it the company he worked for.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: They also interview them in this Hulu series and they
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: talk about what a hard worker he was, Okay, like
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: he was always at work. He would go home and
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: spend time with his wife and kid, and then go
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: back to work. Like he was the hardest working person.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Like he had a very good work ethic. He made,
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: he made very good money. So anyway, we get to
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: December sixteenth of two thousand. This is Christmas time. This
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: is when Mike disappears. So on December sixteenth, Mike leaves
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: home before dawn to go duck hunting at Lake Seminole.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: He tells Denise, that's his wife, that he plans to
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: return around noon so that they can go on their
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: annual trip to celebrate their sixth wedding anniversary. So they're
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: supposed to go on a.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: Trip, okay, after he's duck hunting, after he's.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Done duck hunting.
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Meanwhile, at the Winchester house and now we're going over
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: to the other couple, Kathy wakes up to find Brian
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: is not there and he did not tell her where
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: he was going. You know, these men that disappear and
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: their wives don't know where they are, and then their
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: wives think it's normal. It makes me realize that you're
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: not so bad sometimes.
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: That's why we do the true crime stuff.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Yes, I'm like, I really like I really focusing on
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: this true crime. I'm like, Shane is not so bad
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: at all, because she talks about how he goes duck
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: hunting all the time and he just goes whenever he wants,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: and he just leaves all the time, and like she
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: doesn't even know where he is or where he's going,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: and that's just.
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: What he does.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: I would if you, if I woke up and you
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: weren't home, I would be on a rampage.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I'm home and you go on a rampage, all right.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: So then Mike does not come home that day and
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Denise reports that he's missing. At the same time, Brian
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: shows up to his end laws much later than he
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: was supposed to. His wife, Kathy talks about how they
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: always go. She calls it her granny's farm and Georgia.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: I think it's Georgia's where they went to. So she
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: took the sun and drove to the farm to spend
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: time with her family. It's Christmas time, right, and she
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: doesn't know where Brian is and he's supposed to meet
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: them there. But he shows up hours later, and he's exhausted,
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: and it shows all these photos of him, like asleep
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: on the couch, and you're in your mind, you're thinking,
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: she just documented, like she took photos of this guy
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: just you know, we know he murdered his best friend.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: She doesn't know that she doesn't know what happened. But
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: I'm saying, now, look like where we are present day
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: looking at these photos, he's like asleep on the couch.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: It's like he's tired. He had quite a morning that
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: morning anyway, all right. He claimed that he had gone
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: hunting alone that day. Authorities launch a search effort at
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: Lakes Seminole to find Mike. So then later that night
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: his boat is discovered. The search team finds Mike's abandoned
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: boat truck at the lake, but they cannot find the body.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: So from Lake Seminoles establishment in nineteen fifty seven, this
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: is very interesting to me to present time, just over
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: one hundred people had drowned in the lake and out
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: of all those one hunter bodies, they had recovered all
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: of them except for Mike's. So his is the only
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: body that they couldn't recover from this area of.
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: The lake because it lake.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's very interesting, yes, So they investigate, well, they
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: searched for forty four days, and then after forty four
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: days the search was called off. Mike Williams was listed
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: as still missing, but theories swirled that he'd either run
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: off or fallen overboard and was eaten by an alligator.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: So there were a lot of people that were saying
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: the reason that his body wasn't recovered was because this
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: area of we're talking about Florida, Florida. I always think
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: I can live in Florida until I think about the
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: amount of alligators that are in Florida, and then I
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: decide I can't live in Florida because I don't know
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: if you know this, but I've told you this many times.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: My biggest fear is alligators, and I have nightmares about alligators.
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it shouldn't be right because we don't have any.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: Alligators, I know, but I don't know why.
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: But ever, I've just plus.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: If an alliator chasing you know what you can do?
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: Climb a tree, just go on a table.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's no I don't know in my nightmares
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: when I have nightmares about there's no tables in my nightmare,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: so there's nowhere for me to go.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: My fear would be a bear.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: I know you have a very very No, I don't.
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: I don't run around scared of a bear's I'm just
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: saying if a bear approached me, that would be my
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: nightmare because you can't jump on a table You.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: Can't outrun a bear.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: You can't climb a tree.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: No.
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: The only thing you can do, if you're lucky, is
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: you go downhill because their rear legs are longer than
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: their front legs, so they can't just run down hills.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: They would tumble, something would happen down the hill. But
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: I'm not banking on that as my escape route. If
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: I see a bear, what are you gonna do? I'm
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: gonna look for the nearest hill. What am I going
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: to do?
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: We're supposed to play dead?
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's hard though.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've tried that with you.
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: It doesn't work.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Wake up, wake up, they get mad at me.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: Wait, there's some there's some if it's brown versus black,
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: there's like a saying if it's brown, you're supposed to
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: like lay down like black, you're supposed to like attack
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: or something. I don't know.
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: I need to get that right, right, Yeah, you need
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: to get that right because you need to find out
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: before you approach a bear.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: No, I need to figure that out. But I do
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: think it's like brown, like laid down and black attack.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: I think it's something like that. That's how you're supposed
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: to remember it.
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: I don't know. Maybe you should all look that up. Yeah,
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to trust you on that one.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: After forty four days, the search was called off. And
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: again here was the thing about the alligator. They said
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: that a lot of people were like, well, the body
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: wasn't found because alligators probably consumed him. Right, But you're
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: talking about a guy that's like one hundred and sixty
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: seventy pounds and he's five foot ten, like he's he's
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: a decent sized guy. He's bigger than you.
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: And decent sizes bigger, decent size, bigger than you.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: I'm doffel bag size.
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: We determined that. And they don't find there's no other
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: parts found, like if a I guess, the chance, like
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: the chances of an alligator consuming like an entire human
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: not normal.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: And they don't know if there's a bunch of alligators
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: they might I don't know.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: But anyway, they were like, no, there was nothing found,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: like no remnants of yeah yet the other bodies. Right,
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: And then they were saying that it doesn't seem plausible
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: that it could have been an alligator because this was
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: during the winter time, because we're talking about December, right,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: because this is the Christmas time. Yeah, it's December and Florida,
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: and temperatures get very low, and especially at night. And
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: if you know anything about alligators, they're actually hibernating during
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: this time and they're not feeding. So they were saying,
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: it's not even I guess scientifically.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: Well, it's even less likely, right.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: That an alligator consumed him. So again, where is the body?
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: So that's where we're at with that. Then this is
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: interesting because then six months later after this search, right,
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: so they searched for forty four days, they can't find him,
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: They can't find the body, they find nothing. They did
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: find his truck, and they found the boat. Then six
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: months later, all of a sudden, I believe it was
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: like a jacket of his and his waiter boots and
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: his fishing license appear in the water. So like those
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: are all found. But the interesting thing about what they
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: found in the water is that the waiter boots didn't
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: have like alligator bites in them. Yeah, and I believe
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: like his fishing license didn't. Really it didn't seem like
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: it had been there for six months, like it wasn't decaying. Yeah,
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: I think it's jacket. So the jacket was found and
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: his fishing license and his waiter boots, but they didn't
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: look like they had in there the amount of time
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: that they should have been there. But after they were found,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: his wife Denise, then I believe, I don't know what
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: it is, you do a petition that he be declared dead, right,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: because at this point he's just a missing.
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: Person, Like, can we just all agree he's dead.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: She needs him declared dead, right.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: Heis her insurance money. Right.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: So some of Mike's hunting gear surfaces in the lake,
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: this is six months after his disappearance, including waiters and
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: a hunting jacket and also his license. Still no traces
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: of human remains are anywhere to be found.
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: Because they drop that in the ocean or what is
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: the swamp? Yeah, they dump that in there, and then
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: she's like, okay, now can I get my insurance money?
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: I know, you know what.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: In the documentary he never admits to that, and there
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: isn't any conclusion on that, but that is my thought.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: My thought is they search for this guy for forty
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: four days. There's some theories that alligators ate him, but
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: not everybody is like buying that theory. His mother, Cheryl
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: is very vocal about she thinks that he's still alive
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: or there's foul play, or like she's all over the place.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: And then you've got the widow who needs him to
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: be declared dead. So then six months later that miraculously,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: like this fishing license and Jacket all ends up in
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: the lake. All I can picture is like the widow
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Denise driving at night and like throwing stuff into the lake.
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: The fishing license was because she had to put a
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: name to it.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she's Jacket.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: No, the fishing license totally right. No, it's like, well,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: we have to make sure that they know that it
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: hit it's his, so throw his fishing license in there too.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: It's almost insulting. How bad they are at these crimes.
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: What kind of people do they think we are?
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: So authorities determined that Mike most likely drowned during the
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: hunting trip. His body has never been recovered. Denise pushes
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: for a petition for him to be declared dead. A
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: judge declares him dead.
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: She didn't push a petition to declare him dead. She
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: pushed a petition to get her insurance money, right.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: Okay, So then after he's declared dead, then she gets
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: like one point seven five million in insurance proceeds. So,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: but she needed him to be declared.
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: Dead, right, she should have just confessed he's dead, trust me,
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: I killed him.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but then she won't get her insurance money. She
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: needs that one point seven five million, all right. Mike's
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: mother pushes for answers. So, Mike's Mother's name is Cheryl Williams,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: and she refuses to believe that her son died in
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: an accident. For years, she writes letters to the Governor
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: of Florida urging officials to reinvestigate the case. But then
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: they were never opened. They would just send them to
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: like the Florida Department of like Investigations or something.
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: Like.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: So, like the Governor's office never opened them. They were
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: just taking them and then sending them to like another
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: investigative department or something.
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: Great.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: She even contacted wildlife experts who told her that alligators
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: do not feed in cold winter months. In total, she
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: sends more than twenty six hundred letters demanding further inquiry.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: She also made posters with his picture and like she
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: would hang him up, you know, on the street, and
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: she I talk about a mother, Yeah, she was.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: She was actively searching for answers.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Yes, for years, she never gave us.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: She probably knew the daughter in law did it.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: I think she was suspicious that the daughter in law
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: was involved somehow, and they did not have a relationship.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: Like once Mike went missing, Denise stopped talking to his mother. Yeah,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: and she also Denise also didn't allow Cheryl to have
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: a relationship with their daughter, so she just cut her
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: out completely. So not only did Cheryl lose her son,
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: but she also lost any ties to her granddaughter as well.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Investigators later note that Mike had taken out a one
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: point seventy five million dollar life insurance policy, but the
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: policy was taken out through his best friend and Brian
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Winchester taken out. It was taken out missing six months
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: before his disappearance. While the search was still going on,
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: Denise was filing a claim against his life insurance. She
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: was ready to accept the fact that he was dead,
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: but according to Florida law, since there was no proof
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: Mike had died, he would not be declared dead for
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: five years. Denise did not want to wait that long
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: to collect on Mike's life insurance, so her attorney went
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: to work. It only took six months for her to
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: collect the money. The judge rolled the cause of death
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: accidental drowning while duck hunting on Lake Seminal. Body has
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: not yet been recovered. And I'm telling you, the fact
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: that they made that decision, that the judge made that decision,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: I'm sure was because of the license and the coat
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: and the waiters like that was probably the pivotal evidence
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: that they needed to determine it.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: Of insurance, that's what they needed.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Right well, to declare him dead, yeah, for purposes of insurance.
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: Too, right right?
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Then, Denise Mary's Winchester, Mike's best friend, Brian Winchester, moves
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: into the house.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: Wait, where's Winchester's wife.
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: They end up getting.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Divorced, and they touch on that a little bit. But
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: he was having problems with his wife, Kathy, and she
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: suspected that he was having an affair with Denise, and
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: I believe she questioned him about it, and then someone
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: wrote her a letter. It's very complicated, but Denise was
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: dating some other guy or going out with some other
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: guy named Chuck, and then Brian became very jealous that
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: she was going out with this guy named Chuck, and
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: he showed up while they were on a date. Chuck
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: ended up writing a letter to Kathy saying that he
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: witnessed this weird scene between Brian and Denise and that
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: he thinks they're having an affair and he knows Brian
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: is married. Anyway, It's very convoluted, there's a lot of
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: details in this whole scenario, but he puts Kathy on
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: notice that Brian is having an affair with Denise, and
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: I think she always suspected it, but Brian would deny it.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: But then when she got that letter of this guy
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: confirming it, then she filed for divorce. Then he didn't
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: want to get divorced. I don't know why he wants
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: to be with Denise.
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: Why did he kill her?
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: I think the plan originally was to kill her too.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: I think they discussed that. I think the original plan
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: was to for both of them to drowned or something
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: like that. But they couldn't. I guess they couldn't.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: They couldn't make that yeah work. She didn't have a fishing.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: License, I guess not so, so they had to go
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: with just getting rid of Mike so that they could
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: be together. So so then in two thousand and five,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: this is now, Denise and Brian get married, and we
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: know that Brian is Mike's best friend, and Brian is
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: also does life insurance, and Brian is also are.
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: You really a best friend if you murder him?
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: I think that relationship.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: Brian later reveals that he and Denise had been having
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: an affair since nineteen ninety seven, so they'd been having
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: an affair on these babies, right, Yeah, I don't know
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: whose babies do at this point, I don't know. Brian's
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: ex wife, Kathy, was also Denise's best friend. Kathy's determined
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: to get justice from Mike, so she cooperates with police
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: when necessary, speaking with Cheryl Williams on her theories, and
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: even wearing a wire around Brian to try and get
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: him to confess. She also had conversations with Denise on
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: the phone, and I believe the phone calls were recorded.
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: I think she also wore a wire when she had
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: conversations with Denise. So Kathy was very invested in getting
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: answers and getting justice for Mike. So then we get
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: to twenty twelve. This is seven years after their wedding,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: so Denise and Brian separate. I read or heard or
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: maybe they even said it in the documentary I don't remember,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: but allegedly or apparently, I don't know which way it goes.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: But Brian Winchester had a sex addiction problem, and so
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: that was the reason Denise wanted to get divorced. So
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: she wanted to leave him, after all, they've been having
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: an affairs since nineteen ninety seven.
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: They were going to kill him. That's the deal breaker
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: for Yes.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: She's like, you know what, this sex addiction is just
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: I just can't deal with that.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: And if you want to go out murder more people,
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: we can do that. But if you're going to be
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: if then yeah, it's going to be bad for a relationship.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: In the years leading up to this, Brian, which would
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: you rather be have a murder problem or a sex addiction?
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: Well neither. I mean, we'll go with sex addiction.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, if I have to pick. In the years
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: leading up to this, Brian's ex wife Kathy started to
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: rebuild a friendship with Denise in hopes of driving her
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: and Brian apart. She was successful. I love Kathy and
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: all of this. Kathy is just like Kathy's just like
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: she's in it for the long time. She's like, I'm
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: going to build a relationship with this woman. I'm going
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: to pretend to be her friend. I'm gonna get her
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: on my good side. I'm gonna get her to confess
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: and like think that we're friends. I mean, she was
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: in it, because that takes a long time. That isn't
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: just like wearing a wire and like trying to get
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: someone to have a conversation. Like she was committed to
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: building a relationship with this woman.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: In hopes that she would get a confession.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Right. Friends say, Brian severely struggled with the breakup, but Denise,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: on the other hand, looked like she was living her
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: best life. So this is what this is actually so,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: and then in twenty sixteen, this is the crime that
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: leads to the breakthrough in this case. So I'm telling
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: you this case, this murder of Brian Williams, would have
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: never have been solved if this did not occur in
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. Okay, So we know that Denise wants to
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: divorce Brian because he's a sex addict, right, or she's
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: just done with him or she's over him or whatever.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: She wants to move on. He doesn't want to get divorced,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: probably because he's like you know, then she's going to
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: go tell about what happened. I'm sure he's And he.
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: Can't take out a life insurance policy. If she's like
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: an ex wife, probably like right, So he life insurance policy.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: That's men to kill you. That's the worst.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: So he's trying to talk to her, he's trying to
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: call her, he's trying to text her, and she blocked him.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: She won't respond to anything, so she basically pushes him
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: over the edge. So in twenty sixteen, Brian hides inside
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Denise's car and then when she gets into the car,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: he jumps out from behind in the back seat with
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: a gun and he confronts her and she's driving around.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: He makes her drive around, He tells her which way
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: to go. She pulls into a CVS parking lot and
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: she eventually talks him down. So he kidnaps her, hides
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: in her car, puts a gun to her head, makes
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: her drive around. Then they pull into a CVS parking
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: lot and she talks him down and she gets him
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: to with a drawer or call him down or whatever
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: by promising that she will not tell the police what happened.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: Then as soon as she gets him out of her
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: vehicle and she calms him down, and she promises she
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: won't tell the police. Everything's going to be fine. I'm
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: not going to say anything.
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: Of that, right.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: She drives straight to the police station and reports him.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: She drives him back to his car, and while he's
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: back at his car, he retrieves supplies from Denise's trunk,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Like he had bleach in a plastic tarp in her trunk.
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: Like, so there was had a murder. He was one
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: of the kill her.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was going to kill her.
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: He had a guy. She really convinced him, right, he
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: had a.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: Gun he hid in her car.
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: Has whats the bleach for?
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: Well, I probably think it's going to clean.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: Does that to clean up the blood? Like if he
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: shoots her, then he he's going to clean the vehicle
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: with bleach.
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: I don't know because and he can't clean clothes with bleach.
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: It would just diet and stuff, right, it would burn
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: the colors.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: I don't know. You know what, you know who he
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: needs to reach out to. It is the woman in
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: the suitcase murder that managed to dismember her husband.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: It without a draw.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: Of blood or forensic evidence anywhere in that apartment, not
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: one drop. That's who he needs to consult with anyway,
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: So Denise goes straight to the police and reports the incident.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: So then Brian Winchester is arrested and charged with armed
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: kidnapping and assault, and Denise asks the court to give
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: him a life sentence. Of course she does. She doesn't
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: need him out rowing we are around. Brian ascends to
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: twenty years in prison. At this time, Denise asked her
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: friend Kathy to tell Brian's father to relate to Brian
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: in prison, that she isn't talking. Kathy immediately knows that's
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: in reference to Mike, so that's what happens. So Denise
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: sends a message to Brian while he's in prison, saying
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: that she isn't talking. But you know what that means.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: She isn't That means she's not talking about what happened
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: to Mike.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: Right, So that's the message anyone.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, However, you've got Brian Winchester in prison now
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: for assault and kidnapping. So while he's speaking with investigators,
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Brian Winchester makes a deal with prosecutors. In the documentary,
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: they don't give details about how this conversation comes up,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: but obviously when they have Brian Winchester.
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: And he's wait, he's in custody. He's in custody. Denise
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: told on him.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Yes, so he's in custody.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: And then she writes some letters saying I'm not talking.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Well, shouldn't writ him She sent him a message, right,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: But it doesn't it doesn't matter to him about that.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: Like the point is, at some point they don't talk
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: about this. They don't give you clear details in the documentary.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to speculate here, but I'm assuming when
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: they have him in custody, they're also asking about Mike Williams, right, Yeah,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: they know he's sold in the insurance. He's the guy's
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: best friend and he's married to the white I mean,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: they've been onto them, but they don't have enough evidence, right,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: So now they have him in custody. So he ends
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: up making a deal with prosecutors. He gets full immunity.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: Full immunity. Wow, And I read the immunity deal. He
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: gets full immunity to give them details of Mike's murder,
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: how it went down, where the body is, who is involved.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: So they basically said to him, I read this immunity deal,
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: and it's very interesting, I'll tell you because there's a
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: typo in it, But in the immunity deal, it's basically like,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: you give us all this information about how the murder
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: was committed, where the body is, who is involved, you
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: detail it out, we will give you full immunity. And
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: also he got no life sentence for the kidnapping and
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: gun charge and assault with the ex wife. Talk about
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: a deal, O kidding? I mean this guy got twenty
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: years and that's it for the kidnapping, the gun, the
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: the whole thing with the ex wife, and complete immunity
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: for a murder that he committed.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: And you know what was interesting in this immunity deal
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: because I looked at that I was reading it, and
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: you know how as lawyers, what do we do. We
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: always we don't reinvent the wheels. So whenever you're doing
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: an immunity deal, and you're doing it for a new person,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: you take the old immunity deal, right, or you have
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: a lot of you have a lot of templates you're using. Right.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: So when I'm reading this immunity deal, they forgot to
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: change the name from Brian Winchester. So there's actually a
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: paragraph where it says Wade Wilson.
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: Yes on his immunity deal.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: The deal, Oh my gosh, Wade.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Wilson, Like, we're in Florida, right, so it's the same
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: prosecuting office or whatever. They forgot to switch out Wade
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Wilson's name with Brian Winchester. But anyway, I just found
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: that amusing. So in his confession, Brian described, so this
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: is what happened that day. He describes pushing Mike from
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: his boat. So he was hunting with him that morning.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: He says he pushed him from his boat. But his
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: initial he was trying to drown him because I guess
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Mike wasn't a strong swimmer. So he pushes him from
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: the boat. He lands in the water. He thought he
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: would drown when he pushed him.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: He thought he didn't swim like drown.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: I think he thought with the waiters on, because people say,
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: that's very dangerous if you fall in the water with
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: the waiting those waiter boots they fill up with water
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: and then you can't. They're heavy galoshes, Yes, they're called waiters.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Goloshes are what kindergarteners wear when it rains outside.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh well, fishermen goloshes. But isn't that what it's called.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: Though, I think that's like a term for kids galoshes.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: I don't think adults that go hunting say goloshes. I
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: think they say waiters. Right, okay, anyway, but when those
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: waiters fill up with water, they're very heavy and they're
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: very dangerous and.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: You're stuck in them, and it's like, yeah, right, bricks.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: So I guess he thought if he pushed him into
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: the water with the waiters on, they would fill up
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: with water, he would drown. Well, he didn't drowned. He
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: ended up like holding onto a tree stump. So he's
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: just out in the water, holding onto a tree stump.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: So then the guy panics because he's like, I just
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: tried to kill him and he's alive.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: How inconvenient.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: This does not work well for me at all. So
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: he shot him in the face.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: He had a gun. He had a gun the hunting, Yeah.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he had a gun. They were duck hunting.
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: Well, that's a completely different kind of murder. Yeah, it's like, oh, here,
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: I'm just going to make an accidental drowning. Okay, everyone,
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: I'll shoo him in the face.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because you know what, he panicked because he tried
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: to drown him, and then he didn't drown and.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: He literally pushed him right.
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: So if the guy survived, he say, you pushed me, right,
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: But it could be like, yeah, I pushed because you're
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: an idiot or something.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: I mean he could have he had outs.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't think that goes through your mind.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: I think you panic.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: Well it goes through your mind is let me pull
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: out my shotgun and kill him. I guess in the face.
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: That's what he did. So he shot him, all right,
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: obviously it's okay, okay.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: So this is where the details get fuzzy because I
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: don't know this part and I couldn't find this information.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: But somehow Brian Winchester shot him in the face while
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: he's in the water. Then he has to drag him
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: out of the lake. I don't know how you physically
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: do that. I mean, he's wet, he has clothes on,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: he's got to drag he's got the waiters. He's got
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: to drag him out of the lake, put him into
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: his own vehicle, and then drive him and bury him somewhere.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: But did he have a bag.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know what he had. But he did bury him.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: He buried him very close to where they actually live.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: So he did tell them where the body was, and
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: they did recover the body.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: I think was found in the car.
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: Right, he didn't search it.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: That was another problem, right, And that is where they
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: have talked about how this investigation. If they would have
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: deemed it not just a missing person but a crime scene,
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: they would have searched the boat, they would have searched
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: his vehicle, they would have tried to I don't know.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: They probably would have looked for other tracks to see
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: if there were other vehicles there at the time. They
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: would have treated it like a crime scene. But because
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: he was just a missing person that they thought drowned
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: in the lake, they never treated that area like a
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: crime scene, so they never investigated it forensically. So this
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: guy literally shot him in the face. He somehow gets
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: him into his own vehicle. He drives him however many
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: miles away it is, and he buries him, and then
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: he shows up for Christmas dinner in Georgia at Granny's
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: house and he's tired. Yeah, that's why he showed up late,
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: because he had lots to do. He had clean Yeah,
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: he did not plan on that. He planned on him drowning.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: So then he has to add all this time on
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: where he has to like.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: What he had done.
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: If he drown would then he have called the authorities
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: and like, my friend fell overboard.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: I think so, I think that was a plan. I
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: think he would have admitted that they were together duck hunting,
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: and I think he would have said that his friend
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: drowned and wasn't a strong swimmer and he tried to
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: help him and he couldn't get him out or whatever.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: So also Brian, during this confession and this immunity deal
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: that he makes, he also claims that Denise knew of
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: the plan and had encouraged it. Right, of course he's
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: going to throw her under the bus. Brian later leads
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: investigators to Mike's remains. The body had been buried for
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: nearly two decades in a dry creek bed at car Lake,
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: which was about an hour away from Lake Seminole. Brian
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: claims he committed the entire act alone.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: Right at that point, they're only going to find bones, right.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: They did find bones. They found they found some pieces
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: of clothing that hadn't completely deteriorated.
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: I know what.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: They didn't find his fishing license, they did not or
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: his jacket. They did not find those. So this now
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: we get to twenty eighteen. This has been going on
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: since two thousand, right, we get to twenty eighteen, and
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Denise is arrested. In May of two thousand and eight,
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: authorities arrest Denise on her daughter's nineteenth birthday. Denise pleads
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: not guilty. Brian and Cathy both testify against her in court,
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: and this is in her original trial. The jury finds
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: her guilty of conspiracy to commit murder, first degree murder,
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: and accessory after the fact. So in December of twenty eighteen,
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: which was not that long ago. I mean this took
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: place in two thousand, where all the way up to
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, this woman's being sentenced. Denise was found guilty
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: of conspiracy to commit murder and accessory after the fact,
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: and she was sentenced to life in prison. She actually appeals,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: so she's convicted originally of conspiracy to commit murder and
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: first degree murder and accessory after the fact. She appeals
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: that and they get rid of the first degree murder
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: because her attorney argued, which is a good argument, that
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: there wasn't enough evidence to prove that she was involved
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: in the actual murder. I mean he doesn't place her there.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: He says he acted alone. Yeah, So the first degree
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: murder charge is eventually dropped on appeal, and appeals court
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: later overturned her murder conviction, but her conspiracy conviction stood.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: So today Brian is serving a twenty year sentence for
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: the kidnapping of Denise, while she serves a thirty year
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: sentence for conspiracy in Mike's death. So no one is
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: officially charged for Mike. Williamsburger put away for a while,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: you know, twenty years. You know what they did was
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: they just max that out.
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: I mean it's like, okay, you have immunity in the murder.
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: But because you think they would have given him twenty
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: years for kidnapping.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: That way, No, I don't think so.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: I'm not downplaying it. That was horrific.
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: You know, he's dangerous, but they wouldn't have given him
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: twenty years. No, they used it as so he had
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: immunity for the murder. So they got him to it's like,
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: ohja right, they found a reason to throw him in jail. Well,
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: they had a good reason, a valid criminal reason to
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: throw him in jail, but they put him away for
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: a long time knowing that, you know, try to get
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: retribution for like the him getting away, right, So.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: You're saying they gave him the max on the kidnapping
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: because they couldn't get anything on that, you know, also
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: the prosecution. You know, I'm sure the only way this
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: guy would talk and tell where this guy's body is
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: is if he got full immunity.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: It was like all or nothing.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they got something out of it.
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: Otherwise they would he'd still be free, maybe a kidnapping
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: charge gotten a couple of years or whatever it was.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: So I mean at that point, they're just weighing the
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: benefit of giving for sure, you know, solace to this
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: mother so that she finally knows like where her.
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: Son is on there end, just closing the k solving it.
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: There's always something to learn from these, you know, like
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: hopefully they learn like, Okay, next time someone goes missing
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: in the swamp, let's not assume it's a missing Let's
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: treat it like a crime.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Scene, right right. So, I mean the irony is Brian
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: is serving a twenty yer sentence just for kidnapping, while
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: Denise is in jail for thirty years for conspiracy. Where
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: are Mike and Denise Where's Mike and Denise's daughter? Her
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: name is Annsley. Where is she now? So? In twenty nineteen,
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: Denise signed a deal to avoid prosecution on fraud charges,
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: and Mike's mom, Cheryl, and his brother Nick agreed that
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Ansley should be awarded her of late father's entire estate
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: and insurance moneies. She was given a significant financial sum
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: and a total of four real estate properties across Florida.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: Under the agreement, Annsley this is the daughter cannot use
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: any of this money or assets to help pay her
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: mother's legal fees or any other costs associated with the
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: murder case. If she does so, she can be penalized
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in damages. Antsley holds
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: a bachelor's degree in entrepreneurship. I don't even know. Entrepreneurship
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: is such a like.
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: Like well, it's like business administration.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: It's like such an old.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: Like very broad word. So. She earned a bachelor's degree
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: in entrepreneurship from Florida State University and a master's degree
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: in mass communication from the University of Florida. According to reports,
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: Ansley continues to reside and talent Hassee where she works
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: as a business strategies, social media, marketing, and public relations specialist.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: I do know that she also stands by her mom.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: I think that's why they had that writer in there
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: that she couldn't use any of the insurance proceeds or
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: real estate proceeds that she inherited from her dad's estate
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: to use towards her mom's defense, because I think she
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: was a very staunch supporter of her mom, saying that
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: she didn't believe her mom was involved at all and
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: that her mom shouldn't be in prison.
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: So I guess they were.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: We should watch the documentary, She.
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: Should watch the documentary. Yes, So.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: Anyway, so Mike, I believe, because this is he wasn't
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: sentenced in till twenty eighteen, so he's in I don't
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: know if he's eligible for parole after. I don't know
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: if it's twenty years without parole or if it's twenty
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: years and sometime in that timeframe he's eligible for parole.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: I would say probably not eligible for parole. I don't know,
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: because he got a pretty sweet deal in that immunity
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: deal with actually admitting to murder.
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: How he did it, how you can I thought like
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: twenty years was on the table for his little deal
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: with her and kidnapping her. Right, we probably never thought
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: that was a twenty or sentence, right.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: I think when it when they probably put the maximum
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: out of He's like, wait, wait wait, wait wait, right,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: is there anything you want me to tell you?
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: Like, how can we They probably downplay like this is
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: a little gun charge, don't worry about that. Okay, the
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: murder thing, we're going to get immunity on.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Right, all right, So that this is called it's on Hulu.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: It is no it's a I think it's a three parter.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: It's called Mister and Missus Murder. There's also some dateline
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: episodes on it. It's a very it's a very interesting,
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: intriguing story if you're interested in watching it.
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: It's got all.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: It's got all the things. It's got you, romance, it's
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: got romance, the affairs. It's got alligators, affairs, insurance, money, sex, addicts, kidnapping,
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: Doug Honnie, it's got it all. So anyway, it's called
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: Mister and Missus Conspiracy, conspiracy, it's got it all. So anyway,
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: thank you guys for listening. Till death do us part again.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: If you have any cases out there, that you're aware
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: of of husbands taking out their wives or wives and
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean by taking out not like
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: to dinner.
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: Be sure to DM me and let me know.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: We're always interested in your recommendations and as always, thank
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: you so much for listening and please follow legally.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: Brunette Divorce over Death.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: Yes, we will end every episode in reminding our listeners
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: that divorce is always the best option over death. Yes,
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: thank you for listening.