Latest / the Visual Historian - "A Photographer's Journey" / Photographers BEWARE!!!

Transcript

Photographers BEWARE!!! · the Visual Historian - "A Photographer's Journey"

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: All right, stop the intro.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Stop the intro.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: I just got off the phone call with a commercial client, and I had to get on here and do this podcast because there's a world out there where there's a lot of businesses, okay, businesses of any any kind of size, when they come into town and they're hiring you, hiring the photographer, hiring the um artist, the florist, the whatever it is that you do for events, okay.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: And the topic of conversation was net 30.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: So if you don't know what net 30 is, that's basically when you sign up as a vendor, meaning this company is gonna put you on their employee list, basically, their vendor list, okay?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: You got to fill out the paperwork.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: And when you fill out the paperwork, it's um it's your business ID, it's your bank info, it's usually paying you via ACH, which is directly to the bank.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: And as another conversation with that, there are still fees with an ACH, okay?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: So just because you're not using a credit card does not mean you still don't have that 3% or even higher than that.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: It depends on your bank.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, actually, it depends on the one sending in and the one receiving it.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's what the ACH thingy does.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: The net 30 means they get they send the checks out at the end of the month or the beginning of the month.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's in 30 days, okay?
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Now, usually net 30 works when you're a repeat vendor.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Say you're servicing, you're you're always providing mushrooms to your Italian restaurants, and you're gonna go once a week and make deliveries, and instead of them having a check for you every single time you show up, there's like a billing process.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then every 30 days, as the subtotal arises, they pay you for all within that 30, you keep moving on.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's usually not a problem because what happens is after the first time, you're consistently getting your checks, you just kind of keep working together.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I'm saying?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: So totally cool.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: However, when businesses come in town and they want to hire you and put you on net 30, most likely you're not gonna see them again.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Say there's a convention coming in town, um, it's four days, spending a lot of money at the Hilton downtown.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: They want to hire you for your services.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: And instead of paying you for your immediate service and you do all the work, you get paid, we all go home.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yay.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Net 30 means it's a delayed payment, and it could be 30 days.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: I've had one burn.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: I've had one burn in my 30 years, and I swore it will never happen again.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still angry about the one burn.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: But what'll happen is for them to make a delay, all they gotta do is say, is oh, one of something wasn't right with the transfer, a number was off, or maybe the city, we're not sure what it is, but we're gonna have to put you back in the system for the following go.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, excuse me?
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm gonna wait two months to get paid for a job that I already did and delivered to you, and you're using my images, but I'm not paid yet.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I don't like net 30.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Net30 does not apply to 1099 contract labor people like you and me.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm telling you these kind of things because you're gonna get these emails, you're gonna get a phone call, you're gonna hop on a Zoom, and you're gonna get surprised by lingo.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: And if you haven't gone through these stages yet as a business, you will, and you are eventually.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: So you just you need to know your rights, man.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: And this is this is uh this is all part of all the years that I was with PPA, professional photographers of America.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: When I was um with them, you know, we took a lot of seminars and classes, and we talked about your copyrights and what is the legal verbiage, and you know, how a contract should read.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it should be a handshake between both people.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody's on the same page.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know what the vendor's paying you, the vendor knows what I'm gonna give them for the pay.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the whole thing works.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: As a photographer, when we start getting into NDAs, non-disclosed agreements, now we're hitting another wall that's not fun to climb.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Meaning, if you are photographing events and say, okay, well, the Super Bowl was here, okay, not that long ago, and it was NDAs all over the place, mainly because, and I totally understand there's celebrities all over the place.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Their whole thing was that was their way to kind of control the output of what was going to be getting blasted online, and everybody wants to tag Kevin Costner because he was at this party, and you got to control that, you got to control the room, you know.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, when I worked that one event, there was 20, 25 photographers, videographers.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was a speck amongst the crowd of people with gear, okay?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that I'm not worried about.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's not what I'm talking about.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: But where we're what we're getting into that I've been seeing lately, and if you've been listening to my podcast, I mentioned just mentioned this on an earlier podcast that these regular blowjo companies are starting to use the NDA verbiage or alter your contract that says you have no rights, you can't show them off.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Everything is hand over to the client for whatever use for the pay remitted.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: What that means is you cannot show your work anywhere, not on your own website, Instagram, Facebook.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if if it's on your phone and you're talking to somebody like they're right next to you, yeah, you can show them your phone.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: But you can't post it anywhere.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: And the problem with that is that let's say you do 10 of these kinds of business events in a month, okay?
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: And if if you are browsing Google or you're just going on Instagram and you're seeing everybody posting their work like they're doing right now, okay, if you saw somebody not posting work, you naturally assume they're not working, which isn't always true.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times we're working.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: We have NDAs we got to flip and sign.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we can't show off our work.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: So the ironic part of this conversation, we're gonna get back to net 30.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: The ironic part of this conversation was she was saying how um, you know, is there any links or whatever it is you can show to client of your work, you know, for validation?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, well, that brings us right back to the NDA, doesn't it?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because I have that work that I cannot show you.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, I'm like, yeah, you see where she's going.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: So if every business is gonna start getting in line of saying you do not own the right, you can't use your images for your own personal use anymore, that's gonna start being like a thing, we need to have fees in place for those scenarios.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: And the sad thing is, even if you are compensated for that, say you have a$2,000,$2,500 NDA fee.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, since I can't show my work off and attract other business like this, I shall be compensated for the jobs I'm not gonna be getting because of my own marketing from my own work.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: So when you take that away from me, you take money away from me, money opportunities, job, my life, my career, you're saying no.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: You're telling me I cannot advertise myself.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: You understand that?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: That is it's one thing if it's celebrities involved and and it's hush-hush.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's one thing.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's what NDAs are originally for.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there it's originally for things that need to be private.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's all it is.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: This fad of any business that's gonna start contacting us is gonna start requiring and asking.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Can we we need to change the contract verbiage to this?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it's gonna say the exact same damn thing because they probably got it from another business who did it, and they're just spreading that paragraph around.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Use this, use this, you know, they can't, they can't do anything.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, anyway, that's um that's a big problem.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, if you're a florist, if you're any kind of vendor for events or private parties, weddings, like it doesn't matter, like any kind of events that you're doing, you're providing a service for, when they say NDA or they want to just change the contract to you lose your copyright, you're releasing everything, your hundred percent copyright and ownership and usage fees to the client, and you have nothing, you you need to be ready for this.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like you need to figure out what your answer is.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: So when it happens, you can just talk about it.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, let's get back to net 30.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: I I had to when she mentioned net 30, I was confused because I haven't had net 30, I haven't had a net 30 question or in the contract in over a decade plus.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just not a thing.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like the last time I had a net 30, it was for a hotel that I was working with, and they wanted to put me on net 30.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, you know, that's for recurring vendors.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not a recurring vendor.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: You're hiring me 1099.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: Here's my W9.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: You're hiring me when you need me.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Therefore, credit card, please.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Or check.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: ACH did not exist back then.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they 100% agreed.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: You're not a recurring vendor.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: My apologies.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Where can we um please send us an invoice and we'll pay it immediately?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: No problem.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: That was the last time I heard the word net 30 ever.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was at least 15 years ago, 10, 15 years ago.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Good lord.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so anyway, yeah, net 30.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I explained, I said, uh, I was burned once in my three decades, and I was wore that would never happen again.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: So we can do half to you know, put me on a calendar, work it off.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: And the second half is when I will deliver all of the images.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: And she kind of stared at me like nobody's ever told me that before.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, uh-uh.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not being I'm not being left holding the bag, you know.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Here's here's all the work I did for you for two full 12-hour days, by the way.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Full 12 hour days.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: And uh they want to pay me in a month.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe maybe something happens and oops, we gotta do it on the next go around.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it's 60 days.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, look, my house load comes every month.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know about you.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: My kids tuition every month.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, so I'm 1099.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: That means I'm contract labor.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: That means you are contracting me to work for you, which equals pay.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Are we clear?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, I just had to get on here and talk about that.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm gonna go text a few buddies of mine in the industry and see if they want to hop on here for the next podcast, and we can talk about this uh with our own scenarios, but um just preparing you, preparing the artist, the vendor, the person offering a service for any kind of event, okay?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Just you should be paid in full before the event or by the event day.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: You should never be left holding the bag, you know, holding it, everybody's gone, and you're like, What what do I do now?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because then what happens is now it gets legal, now it becomes an unpaid bill, now it becomes a collection agency thing, now it becomes your lawyer, now it becomes letters and emails that are time-stamped and dated.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now it becomes verbiage in your emails.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Now it becomes a problem if your way of working, if your contracts are not correct, if your system, if you don't have a system, if you don't have all these things lined up before you give them that bill, that can be a problem too.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: People, you gotta understand everybody's out for themselves sometimes, and loopholes, they know the loopholes.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: They know how to get out of paying you.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: How many times have you heard the story?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: They pay you by credit card, and then after the event, they called the credit card company and said it was a fraud thing or he didn't deliver or whatever it is, and then magically your credit card company takes that sale away from you without even calling you.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: I've heard that before, it's never happened to me, but I've heard it before.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Scares the crap out of me because I have bills, man.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not some big huge business.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: I am a working photographer.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, at the end of the day, that's all I really am.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: A working photographer.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: I am contract labor.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: You contract me for a job.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Ta-da! You know?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: So listen, if if this relates to you, if if you have questions, comments, you have past experiences, whatever it is, however you're listening to this podcast, there's usually a way you can leave comments.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to see any kind of comment, anything.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, the visual historian, you can just uh you can get me on Instagram.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: You can find me anywhere, guys.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Just you know, do it up.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: If you're on Spotify, I know you can leave a comment.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: So you can definitely do that.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so anyway, I just want to get on here.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: I want to slap some education on you.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's something I'm literally dealing with right now.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know if I even have the job yet because now we're talking about this, and the client needs to agree to something besides net 30.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's just business, y'all.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, remember, don't be afraid of contracts, but dear God in heaven, get a lawyer to look at your contract.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Don't just buy something on Etsy and use it as your contract.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, it needs to be legal, it needs to protect you and the client.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's for the client's protection, too.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just you protecting your own booty, it's for the client, too.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's for a clear conversation on a piece of paper, or for depends on how long your contract is, but it needs to be understandable, it can't be gibberish, it can't be a created loophole for problems later.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: That, my friend, is all a contract is.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, uh, yeah.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: I just I I had to get on here, man.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sitting here, uh hung up the phone call with them, and I'm like, I gotta do a podcast.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I gotta talk about this because if this is an email that I got a few days ago, and we just did a Zoom call.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: I I know you're getting it too.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: I know somebody is, somebody will next week, next month.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna happen, you know?
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: And you do not have to be a photographer to be dealing with this.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, it's anybody that you that they're hiring for an event.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: I have even heard the hotel that hosted this event was dealing with net 30 BS for services that were already rendered and they were having to chase them behind to get paid.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: The hotel.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, if you're a florist, if you're me, a photographer, you know, you're a band, you're what any kind of service, man, for an event.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Once the event is over, you should have been paid already.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: Period.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: End of discussion.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: However, you want to make that happen in your life, make it happen.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Do not ever do this.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Can we pay half later?
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: BS.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, net 30 is for a recurring vendor, which you are not.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: You are a contract labor, you owe one person or a team or a company.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: Once the services are rendered, they're done.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: So once they're done, they're kind of in control because you're left waiting for the money.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: All right, you guys.