Latest / Bucco Territory: A Pittsburgh Pirates Podcast / Pirates conservative with SP, Bullpen Breakdown
Transcript
- 0:09Speaker 1: What's up, everybody?
- 0:10Speaker 2: Welcome back to another episode of Bucko Territory, presented to
- 0:13Speaker 2: you by the Foul Territory Network.
- 0:15Speaker 1: My name is Noah Hiles.
- 0:16Speaker 2: Joining me as always are my co host Josh Harrison
- 0:18Speaker 2: and Platinum.
- 0:19Speaker 1: Key a k a. Mark.
- 0:21Speaker 2: The Pirates are set to begin a three game weekend
- 0:25Speaker 2: series at Wrigley Field. We're gonna talk about the week
- 0:29Speaker 2: that was leading up to this weekend.
- 0:32Speaker 1: Series in the Windy City.
- 0:35Speaker 2: We're gonna talk about the pitching rotation, the starting rotation,
- 0:38Speaker 2: some early polls mainly inspired by Mitch Keller getting the
- 0:43Speaker 2: hook on on Yeah in Wednesday's Lossaudres.
- 0:48Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about the bullpen. Is it good? Is
- 0:50Speaker 1: it bad? Do we know yet? Is it fair to
- 0:52Speaker 1: know yet?
- 0:53Speaker 2: And then we'll wrap up the show with our weekly segment,
- 0:56Speaker 2: Jay Hay Now, which we do on every Friday show.
- 0:59Speaker 2: Fellas before where we get started, you want to ask
- 1:01Speaker 2: how are we doing today?
- 1:04Speaker 3: I'm doing great?
- 1:04Speaker 4: Uh? Yeah.
- 1:06Speaker 3: These City Connect jerseys that they just dropped, we're recording
- 1:09Speaker 3: Thursday night. They are phenomenal. Uh you don't like them?
- 1:14Speaker 4: Oh? I love them? I love them? What what's not
- 1:19Speaker 4: the lack about them?
- 1:20Speaker 2: Noah uh, I think like it looks like something.
- 1:27Speaker 4: Or no, no, no, no.
- 1:30Speaker 5: I was gonna ask because obviously it's black. I was
- 1:32Speaker 5: gonna say, is it because you know they already have
- 1:33Speaker 5: a black jersey that could be No.
- 1:35Speaker 1: I just I don't know.
- 1:38Speaker 2: I've never really had a problem with any jersey the
- 1:40Speaker 2: Pirates have worn in my lifetime. I didn't even mind
- 1:44Speaker 2: the red sleeveless ones that everyone made fun of, but
- 1:49Speaker 2: this one, like, I don't I don't like the font.
- 1:52Speaker 2: It it looks like, I don't know, it looks kind
- 1:57Speaker 2: of tacky in my opinion. And I might be in
- 1:59Speaker 2: the minority here, I get it, you know, I just
- 2:04Speaker 2: is what it is. I mean, some people think I'm
- 2:05Speaker 2: always hating on the Pirates, so I guess this is
- 2:08Speaker 2: on my brand, right.
- 2:09Speaker 3: I'm just glad that they have like a touch of red,
- 2:11Speaker 3: like the Nike logo. There's like a couple of red accents.
- 2:14Speaker 3: We haven't seen red in a uniform in a while,
- 2:16Speaker 3: so that's pretty cool. And I do like the font.
- 2:19Speaker 3: I mean, my one criticism is it seems like a
- 2:22Speaker 3: connection to just Pirates and not the city of Pittsburgh.
- 2:26Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's We're not a city We're not a city,
- 2:31Speaker 2: just on a pirate ship in the ocean.
- 2:32Speaker 4: Yeah.
- 2:33Speaker 2: I like the I like the old city connects like
- 2:35Speaker 2: I like the yellow with the PGH.
- 2:37Speaker 1: I thought those were sharp. Yeah, I just I like
- 2:42Speaker 1: the bridge or.
- 2:44Speaker 4: Something right, Yeah. Yeah, and the like faded.
- 2:46Speaker 3: Yeah, they look better up close for sure.
- 2:50Speaker 1: Yeah.
- 2:50Speaker 2: These are my least favorite Pirate uniforms I've ever seen.
- 2:53Speaker 2: On it a big objective here.
- 2:55Speaker 4: So.
- 2:57Speaker 2: We're gonna ditch that topic. And on the on the
- 3:02Speaker 2: note of ditching things early, we're going to talk about
- 3:04Speaker 2: early pools. Mitch Keller was the subject of discussion Wednesday
- 3:08Speaker 2: when he got the hook after a very efficient outing
- 3:11Speaker 2: what was it five.
- 3:12Speaker 3: Innings, markt six and.
- 3:16Speaker 2: Yeah, under eighty pitches through six innings. Mitch Keller, real
- 3:20Speaker 2: quick has been the Pirates best player this year. Easy
- 3:23Speaker 2: for all the talk about O'Neil Cruz, for all the
- 3:25Speaker 2: talk about I mean you could throw Ryan O'Hearn out there,
- 3:28Speaker 2: there have been some others as well.
- 3:30Speaker 1: Mitch Keller through three starts, has a one earned run average.
- 3:33Speaker 2: He and he has only got run support in one
- 3:36Speaker 2: of his three starts.
- 3:38Speaker 3: War, Yeah, pitching war is a little wacky, but he's
- 3:41Speaker 3: he's crushing.
- 3:42Speaker 4: Yeah.
- 3:43Speaker 2: Yeah, so Mitch gets the hook. The bullpen comes in,
- 3:47Speaker 2: which we're going to talk about later, but justin Lawrence
- 3:49Speaker 2: gets crushed.
- 3:50Speaker 1: Uh.
- 3:51Speaker 2: The Pirates battle back a little bit, but then things
- 3:53Speaker 2: continue to get further out of hand.
- 3:55Speaker 1: I think they what allowed five in the ninth inning
- 3:57Speaker 1: something like that. Yeah, it was good.
- 4:00Speaker 2: So they went on to lose the game and the series,
- 4:04Speaker 2: and there was some dialogue about should have should Keller
- 4:07Speaker 2: have been allowed to stay in Mark?
- 4:09Speaker 3: You have the pitching, Yeah, yeah.
- 4:12Speaker 1: You started this season. Yeah you look, I mean you
- 4:15Speaker 1: take Paul out of the mix.
- 4:17Speaker 2: And this is very consistent across the board, which I
- 4:21Speaker 2: want to actually start off by asking, Josh, should it
- 4:25Speaker 2: be this consistent? Should it kind of be across the
- 4:29Speaker 2: board where hey, this is where every one of our
- 4:32Speaker 2: arms they're all stretched to this length right now, or
- 4:36Speaker 2: should it be a little bit more individual based, because
- 4:40Speaker 2: it's hard to argue that it is anything about the
- 4:43Speaker 2: individual right now.
- 4:45Speaker 5: Of course it should be this consistent. Baseball asked for consistency. No,
- 4:49Speaker 5: I'm just playing No, it really should not be this consistent.
- 4:53Speaker 5: That right there, to me is telling me that you're
- 4:56Speaker 5: going into the game already with a predetermined decision, and
- 5:01Speaker 5: baseball has a funny way of making you, you know,
- 5:05Speaker 5: kick yourself in the foot to say, oh, dang, I
- 5:08Speaker 5: shouldn't have done that, because we've seen the time and
- 5:11Speaker 5: time over again in some moments of you know, the
- 5:14Speaker 5: biggest stage, even in the World Series where Blake Sneil
- 5:17Speaker 5: got pulled due to you know, analytics and early part
- 5:21Speaker 5: of the year. I don't know if you know, I
- 5:23Speaker 5: get it. You want to protect guys, you know, workload
- 5:27Speaker 5: and watch. You know, we don't want to blow you
- 5:29Speaker 5: out in April to not have you in October. But
- 5:33Speaker 5: because as I said, there's gonna be differences from spring
- 5:35Speaker 5: training to the start of season. Everybody's going in a
- 5:38Speaker 5: warm climate. You go start the season, sometimes you start
- 5:41Speaker 5: in the cold climate, and a lot of people don't
- 5:43Speaker 5: realize that it takes a lot more out of you
- 5:45Speaker 5: to stay warm in those coder games. So you can
- 5:48Speaker 5: also understand why some you know, managers may be apprehensive
- 5:52Speaker 5: to say, you know what, you haven't pitched in this
- 5:55Speaker 5: dry condition for the past six weeks, like, you know what,
- 5:58Speaker 5: you gave us five six innings. But at the same time,
- 6:02Speaker 5: a lot of the gut instinct in my opinion for
- 6:05Speaker 5: baseball has been taken away within the past ten years.
- 6:09Speaker 5: It's a safe answer. It's a safe play because, yes,
- 6:11Speaker 5: you have an analytic department that gives you this information,
- 6:14Speaker 5: and yes it makes sense early part of April, you
- 6:17Speaker 5: don't want to over extend guys.
- 6:18Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, a.
- 6:21Speaker 5: Loss in April can also prevent you from a playoffs.
- 6:23Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, contention.
- 6:25Speaker 5: Don't just look at the last month to where all
- 6:27Speaker 5: man that lost in September. No, it could be a
- 6:30Speaker 5: potential loss in April that was a bad loss based
- 6:32Speaker 5: off of you know, non situational heading or bad defense.
- 6:35Speaker 5: You know, you know, miscommunication in the field. So I
- 6:42Speaker 5: don't think it needs to be this consistent. Yes, you
- 6:45Speaker 5: can go in with a plan, but plans changed because
- 6:48Speaker 5: I mean six innings had seventy five pitches. I mean
- 6:51Speaker 5: that's what the other team is hoping. Man, it's duds,
- 6:54Speaker 5: cruise and please get him out. You can bring somebody
- 6:57Speaker 5: coming in throwing two million. We got a better chance
- 7:00Speaker 5: of facing who's out there right now, because sometimes when
- 7:02Speaker 5: the pitcher's in a zone, the one thing that a
- 7:07Speaker 5: hitting you know, a team wants is you know, just
- 7:09Speaker 5: give us a fresh look. Somebody different. I don't even
- 7:11Speaker 5: care who it is. It's just somebody different because this
- 7:14Speaker 5: dude has our number. So should it be that consistent? No,
- 7:19Speaker 5: But at the same time you understand protecting it. But
- 7:22Speaker 5: you also got to go with your gut instinct and
- 7:24Speaker 5: watch the game and say, you know what, let me
- 7:26Speaker 5: let me ask my guy. Mitch is in a rookie.
- 7:28Speaker 5: You know, Mitch's been around, so that's where you also
- 7:30Speaker 5: how you feel I'm good unless Mitch was like, no,
- 7:34Speaker 5: I'm good, and you understand that. But seventy five pitches,
- 7:37Speaker 5: six innings, that's almost that's something that you might baby
- 7:41Speaker 5: somebody that's like a young guy that's really a rookie,
- 7:43Speaker 5: but not not a guy that's under contract that you're
- 7:45Speaker 5: expecting to go eat innings and help you win ball games.
- 7:47Speaker 4: Right.
- 7:48Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think what this basically shows me is
- 7:51Speaker 3: there's a big concern in the Pirates organization about their
- 7:54Speaker 3: pitching depth, where they are being as cautious as possible
- 8:00Speaker 3: with who they have in the starting rotation right now,
- 8:02Speaker 3: not to over extend them in any way. Just like
- 8:07Speaker 3: looking at who's available in Triple A and DY, there's
- 8:10Speaker 3: not a lot of the starters that you're too confident in.
- 8:14Speaker 3: I mean, you have Hunter Barco in the pen that
- 8:17Speaker 3: you could stretch out and maybe move into the rotation.
- 8:19Speaker 3: But we'll touch on Hunter Barco here in a little bit.
- 8:22Speaker 3: So Yeah, it's just that apprehension is a little worrying.
- 8:27Speaker 3: I guess you have, like Clevenger, you could stretch out
- 8:29Speaker 3: your Kidi, but aren't exactly the same options that you're
- 8:34Speaker 3: getting right now out of this starting five. But no,
- 8:37Speaker 3: what are you thinking about this? I mean I'm interested.
- 8:40Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a couple thoughts.
- 8:42Speaker 2: I agree with Josh for the most part, where if
- 8:45Speaker 2: there's one person, I think there are two people where
- 8:49Speaker 2: I mean you, I think it's fine to go into
- 8:50Speaker 2: a game. It's fine to go into a game with
- 8:53Speaker 2: a plan. Like I don't necessarily love the idea of
- 8:57Speaker 2: having no plan at all for a starting pitcher, especially
- 9:01Speaker 2: this early in the year, right, Like I don't love
- 9:03Speaker 2: the idea of having the option to let a guy
- 9:07Speaker 2: throw one hundred and twenty pitches in the month of April.
- 9:09Speaker 2: I don't think that's smart because I think that just
- 9:12Speaker 2: goes into forget like long term planning, which is also
- 9:14Speaker 2: very important. I just don't think that's good for productivity.
- 9:17Speaker 2: You're you're not gonna have your best stuff that deep
- 9:20Speaker 2: into a ballgame. However, I'm looking at Mitch Keller's pitch
- 9:23Speaker 2: counts in April last year. So his first start of
- 9:27Speaker 2: the season last year was on March twenty eighth. He
- 9:30Speaker 2: threw eighty six pitches there, and then he made five
- 9:33Speaker 2: starts in April. The pitch counts were ninety seven, ninety six,
- 9:37Speaker 2: one oh five, one oh one eighty nine.
- 9:39Speaker 3: Wow, so different. Yeah, it's compared to yeah, this, yeah.
- 9:44Speaker 1: Compared to this now.
- 9:47Speaker 4: One guy.
- 9:50Speaker 2: Yeah, Now, I will say this, you could contend that,
- 9:56Speaker 2: I mean, what, what's the one flaw of Mitch Keller? Mark,
- 10:00Speaker 2: What is the one thing that people will say prevents
- 10:02Speaker 2: Mitch Keller from being much better than what he is overall?
- 10:06Speaker 3: I mean I was thinking, just like back in the day,
- 10:08Speaker 3: he could never get out of the first inning. But yeah,
- 10:11Speaker 3: it's not that, what are you thinking.
- 10:13Speaker 2: It's that he doesn't have he does not perform as
- 10:16Speaker 2: well in the second half of the season, right, So
- 10:18Speaker 2: maybe they're keeping.
- 10:19Speaker 1: That in mind.
- 10:21Speaker 2: And if that is their approach with Mitch, then I'm
- 10:25Speaker 2: fine with this. If their thought is analytically, Hey, we're
- 10:29Speaker 2: gonna build you up a little slower, not because we're
- 10:32Speaker 2: treating you like Bubba and Braxton, whose workloads we're going
- 10:36Speaker 2: to have to manage all year, but because we want
- 10:39Speaker 2: you to kind of build up a little slower so
- 10:42Speaker 2: you can probably be feeling better come August, because if
- 10:46Speaker 2: you look at your track record, August has been a
- 10:49Speaker 2: horrible month for Mitch Keller in twenty twenty four and
- 10:52Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. I even think he regressed a little
- 10:54Speaker 2: bit in August twenty twenty three as well, So that
- 10:58Speaker 2: might be the reason behind this, And I hope that
- 11:01Speaker 2: that's the reasoning behind this, because if they just have
- 11:04Speaker 2: a strict staff wide pitch count right now, I don't
- 11:09Speaker 2: like that at all, because there's a lot of difference
- 11:13Speaker 2: between a pitcher like Mitch Keller, who has never had
- 11:17Speaker 2: an arm injury, who has been in the major leagues
- 11:20Speaker 2: since twenty nineteen, who has been an All Star, is
- 11:25Speaker 2: a guy who is consistently shown to be capable of
- 11:28Speaker 2: throwing one hundred and eighty if not more innings in
- 11:31Speaker 2: a major league season. There's a lot different than that
- 11:34Speaker 2: compared to someone like Karma Majinski who's never had a
- 11:37Speaker 2: full year as a major league starter, Bubba Chandler, who's
- 11:40Speaker 2: never had a full major league season, Braxton Ashcraft, who's
- 11:43Speaker 2: never thrown, you know, a ton of innings in a
- 11:45Speaker 2: season due to injuries throughout his professional development.
- 11:49Speaker 1: So that's my question.
- 11:50Speaker 2: And I'm not accusing the Pirates of doing one or
- 11:52Speaker 2: the other because I don't have the answer to that.
- 11:56Speaker 2: I would just hope that because when you look at
- 11:58Speaker 2: that on the surface, like what Mark showed, it looks
- 12:02Speaker 2: like everyone's kind of being handled the same way. And
- 12:05Speaker 2: I don't think that that's the best way to go
- 12:07Speaker 2: about it in my professional opinion. And I'm not a
- 12:10Speaker 2: baseball coach, I'm just a baseball writer, but I think
- 12:14Speaker 2: that it's good to have guardrails to a certain extent,
- 12:17Speaker 2: but the guardrails should be catered to the individual, not
- 12:20Speaker 2: the collective whole.
- 12:21Speaker 1: I think that that's.
- 12:22Speaker 2: Something that prohibited pitching from maximizing its abilities. When Josh
- 12:26Speaker 2: was playing for the Pirates. They treated everyone the same
- 12:29Speaker 2: a little too much. And I think the Pirates do
- 12:32Speaker 2: a really good job overall when it comes to pitching development.
- 12:37Speaker 2: They've done a solid job. I think, for the most part,
- 12:39Speaker 2: finding a good way to keep most of their guys healthy.
- 12:43Speaker 1: I like how they've brought some certain guys up in
- 12:45Speaker 1: the system.
- 12:46Speaker 2: I've been vocal about, you know, my support on slow
- 12:50Speaker 2: cooking guys as I've termed it, and the way they've
- 12:53Speaker 2: handled schemes and some of the other guys, the way
- 12:55Speaker 2: they progress them. I think they've done more right than wrong.
- 12:59Speaker 2: But there have been some changes into that pitching room
- 13:02Speaker 2: in this offseason, and this is coach Murphy's first year
- 13:06Speaker 2: overseeing things, and I'll be curious to see the individualization
- 13:11Speaker 2: of this plan because it's too early, I think to
- 13:13Speaker 2: make any draw any conclusions because everyone's only made a
- 13:16Speaker 2: couple of starts. But the data that we're seeing now
- 13:19Speaker 2: looks like everyone's being treated the same. I'm not saying
- 13:23Speaker 2: that that's the case, but if it is, I don't
- 13:25Speaker 2: like it.
- 13:29Speaker 5: Yeah, Joah, no, no, no, I honestly am with you.
- 13:34Speaker 5: And it was going to lead into our next category,
- 13:37Speaker 5: to be honest, because they tie hand in hand, because
- 13:41Speaker 5: you even brung up the whole thing, Noah, of yes,
- 13:45Speaker 5: I have experienced the whole you know, spill of pitch
- 13:49Speaker 5: starting pitchers not going past ninety pitches. I want to
- 13:53Speaker 5: believe it was twenty twelve. It was actually an issue
- 13:56Speaker 5: that we had amongst our team and the staff that
- 13:59Speaker 5: you know, couple veterans you know, took it upon themselves
- 14:02Speaker 5: to talk to the you know, coaching staff about it
- 14:06Speaker 5: because it's one of those things where bullpen phones are loud.
- 14:08Speaker 4: Man, and we.
- 14:10Speaker 5: Would get eighty you know, our STARTU would be at
- 14:12Speaker 5: eighty pitchers and you did and you know, guys getting
- 14:16Speaker 5: the ball back from the picture, catching it and looking
- 14:18Speaker 5: over and the dug aut like, man, I'm at eighty pitches.
- 14:21Speaker 5: That was my first pitch of the sixth inning, and
- 14:24Speaker 5: sure enough, first pitch might be ball wanted get somebody up,
- 14:27Speaker 5: and it's like, you know, it gets to a point
- 14:29Speaker 5: to where the catcher and the picture goes. Man, you
- 14:33Speaker 5: want us to go out there and do a job.
- 14:35Speaker 5: Like at some point you have to trust us. You know,
- 14:37Speaker 5: we've gotten through these first seventy five.
- 14:38Speaker 4: Eighty pitches and I get it.
- 14:41Speaker 5: You get closer to that one hundred, it does gets
- 14:44Speaker 5: you to wear. Okay, fatigue sets in focused, but how
- 14:47Speaker 5: do you expect the guy to learn to pitch in
- 14:49Speaker 5: those moments if you're holding him back from that moment,
- 14:52Speaker 5: and then you get the August or September where yes,
- 14:54Speaker 5: you might have wanted him to be fresh, but he
- 14:56Speaker 5: hasn't mentally been in that situation to pitch deep in
- 14:59Speaker 5: the game. Because we have said, let's hold on to
- 15:03Speaker 5: this book, which leads to the bullpen trust. When you're
- 15:06Speaker 5: taking when you're taking starters out early in the season
- 15:08Speaker 5: as seventy five eighty pitches, that means you're going to
- 15:10Speaker 5: your bullpen a lot. And yes, your bullpen may have
- 15:13Speaker 5: a lot of success early on, but what happens at
- 15:16Speaker 5: the end of the season that bullpen gets overused. But
- 15:20Speaker 5: then now you're wanting starters to go deeper. What if
- 15:22Speaker 5: the starter has a bad start, rough start? Right now
- 15:25Speaker 5: you're going to the bullpen to go to a guy
- 15:29Speaker 5: that might have been a little bit more used than
- 15:32Speaker 5: he probably should have been. Because in April we didn't
- 15:35Speaker 5: let Mitch Keller go out for the seventh inning at
- 15:38Speaker 5: seventy five pitches. You know he's got you know, two
- 15:41Speaker 5: more up downs just based off of our you know,
- 15:45Speaker 5: if it is an eighty to ninety pitch woman, So
- 15:48Speaker 5: that bullpen trust, I don't think it messages with your
- 15:51Speaker 5: bullpen trust. But what it does is sometimes those early
- 15:54Speaker 5: pools lead to bullpen trust because now you have guys
- 15:56Speaker 5: pitching in situations that's like, oh yes, I can come
- 16:00Speaker 5: in after mixtures through six shuddy with seventy five. But
- 16:03Speaker 5: I mean, honestly, whoever come in and follow that is
- 16:06Speaker 5: in some tough shoes because that offense is taking a
- 16:10Speaker 5: deep breath, like, all right, we got this dude out
- 16:13Speaker 5: of here, you know, and you see it time and
- 16:15Speaker 5: time again. It might be somebody come in as the
- 16:18Speaker 5: nastiest dude out the pen and he gives it up
- 16:20Speaker 5: because it's like, I don't care, you might be nasty,
- 16:23Speaker 5: but whatever he had today is just it was our kryptonite.
- 16:27Speaker 5: So in the bullpend, you're gonna keep going to you
- 16:30Speaker 5: guys because starting pitching is what you need. That is
- 16:34Speaker 5: definitely that comes at a premium because I mean, realistically,
- 16:37Speaker 5: bullpen guys, that's why you see them rotate.
- 16:39Speaker 4: Guys go in and out. Somebody's coming up, somebody's going
- 16:42Speaker 4: down there. You know.
- 16:43Speaker 5: It's the easiest to play with the roster as far
- 16:46Speaker 5: as when you need an extra guy, when you need
- 16:48Speaker 5: another arm. But at the same time, the bullpen trusts
- 16:52Speaker 5: some guys are gonna be in situations that they're not
- 16:54Speaker 5: used to. So then now that overuse and then that's
- 16:58Speaker 5: why I said, going from that starter to the bull
- 17:00Speaker 5: kind of tied end.
- 17:00Speaker 4: So I know there was a lot to kind of
- 17:02Speaker 4: wrap around, but I lived it.
- 17:04Speaker 5: And when you bring that up, no, it kind of
- 17:06Speaker 5: segueyed into me hitting into that bullpen trucks, because I
- 17:10Speaker 5: mean those guys sometimes are you know out there in
- 17:12Speaker 5: the situation where was like, there's a lot of guys
- 17:14Speaker 5: that I played with that never went back to back
- 17:16Speaker 5: days and they get to the big leagues and they
- 17:19Speaker 5: didn't do back to back. They went back to back
- 17:20Speaker 5: to back, and I mean they were baltlin. But come
- 17:24Speaker 5: July August, that one up that he comes up. Now
- 17:27Speaker 5: he's getting hit because the sinker ain't sinking as much.
- 17:30Speaker 5: Is split is flat, his slider's flat, and it's like
- 17:33Speaker 5: he's not doingything different. He just got a little bit
- 17:36Speaker 5: more used, a little bit more adrenaline in the situation
- 17:38Speaker 5: where you don't get the cinemato leagues.
- 17:42Speaker 1: Yeah, just looking at their bullpen.
- 17:44Speaker 2: To me, the story right now is it's a bullpen
- 17:48Speaker 2: of the haves and have nots. You have a handful
- 17:51Speaker 2: of guys who are lights out, and I don't think
- 17:54Speaker 2: it's very difficult to figure it out right now. You look,
- 17:57Speaker 2: I mean, Dennis Santana's money, he has been since he
- 18:00Speaker 2: arrived here, Gregory Soto's been really good, Isaac Mattson has
- 18:04Speaker 2: been really good, and Johann Ramirez has been really good.
- 18:07Speaker 1: So that that's four, and then the.
- 18:09Speaker 2: Other four you're getting into a little shaky territory. I mean,
- 18:13Speaker 2: i'll call a spata s bae. Justin Lawrence has not
- 18:15Speaker 2: been good at all this year. Jose Orkeaty has not
- 18:18Speaker 2: been good at all this year. Hunter Barco has been
- 18:21Speaker 2: bad for the most part this year. And Mason Montgomery,
- 18:25Speaker 2: I wouldn't say he's in that group, but he's been inconsistent.
- 18:29Speaker 2: I mean, when he's looked good, he's looked really damn good,
- 18:32Speaker 2: and when he's looked bad, he's looked like the others.
- 18:34Speaker 2: The problem also with some of this is normally the bullpen,
- 18:40Speaker 2: like Josh said, is constructed where you have guys with
- 18:44Speaker 2: minor league options who can go up and down. That's
- 18:47Speaker 2: not necessarily the case versus Pat Arkety's out of options.
- 18:51Speaker 2: Lawrence is out about options and Ramirez is out of options.
- 18:55Speaker 2: You're not optioning Santana, you're not optioning Soto, and you're
- 18:59Speaker 2: not optioning Mattson. So who does that leave. That leaves
- 19:02Speaker 2: Montgomery and Barco.
- 19:04Speaker 1: Those are two lefties.
- 19:06Speaker 2: So yeah, so and and and you could say Soto's
- 19:11Speaker 2: a lefty.
- 19:11Speaker 1: He obviously is, but he's a leverage guy. So I
- 19:15Speaker 1: mean it's he's a lefty, but like in reality, he's.
- 19:18Speaker 2: Your eighth or ninth inning guy, Like he's he's not
- 19:21Speaker 2: a If it's three straight lefties coming up to bat
- 19:25Speaker 2: in the sixth inning, you're probably not pitching Gregory Soto there.
- 19:28Speaker 2: So they're kind of in a tough spot with how
- 19:32Speaker 2: they address these issues if they move forward, because someone's
- 19:36Speaker 2: either going to have to get DFA or start playing better.
- 19:39Speaker 1: And I'll throw it over to Mark, I mean, what
- 19:43Speaker 1: do you make.
- 19:43Speaker 2: Of the current layout of this bullpen, because like I said,
- 19:47Speaker 2: it's it's it's a lot of good but also a
- 19:49Speaker 2: lot of bat.
- 19:50Speaker 3: Yeah, it's super top heavy. If you can make it
- 19:52Speaker 3: to the eighth with you're going to be great. And
- 19:56Speaker 3: that's a great feeling. How your bullpen it's that fifth
- 19:59Speaker 3: through So I've been.
- 20:00Speaker 1: Thinking if you make it to the seventh, you're good.
- 20:03Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, with Mattson and then Soto and Santana and
- 20:06Speaker 3: whatever order. Yeah, and so you're feeling good about the
- 20:10Speaker 3: back end of that. Obviously, those guys can't pitch every
- 20:12Speaker 3: single game, so maybe day by day you might be
- 20:17Speaker 3: a little more apprehensive. But yeah, the Justin Lawrence has
- 20:21Speaker 3: been a disappointment. His fastball has been pretty bad, and
- 20:26Speaker 3: he just can't keep the sweeper in the zone and
- 20:27Speaker 3: when he does, he has been hanging it. Yeah, both
- 20:31Speaker 3: of those home runs in Wednesday's game were off of
- 20:34Speaker 3: his sweeper, which moves like crazy. It's an awesome pitch
- 20:38Speaker 3: when he's on. But yeah, we didn't see people hit
- 20:41Speaker 3: that like that last year, so that's a little bit
- 20:43Speaker 3: of the concern. Mason Montgomery, he's at least limited his walks.
- 20:48Speaker 3: He only has four walks this year, but he's given
- 20:50Speaker 3: up seven hits, so he has like a two point
- 20:53Speaker 3: three to six whip right now, so that's a little concerning.
- 20:57Speaker 3: And Hunter Barco just hasn't really felt like he's settled
- 21:01Speaker 3: in yet. Yeah, where you can see like you'll see
- 21:05Speaker 3: the the brief glimpses of oh, that's that's some good stuff, Like,
- 21:08Speaker 3: I he's pitching well all that, but yeah, he's given
- 21:12Speaker 3: up three home runs and h walked five and giving
- 21:15Speaker 3: up seven hits, and that's a that's a tough line, uh,
- 21:18Speaker 3: this early in the season. So hopefully he gets a
- 21:21Speaker 3: little bit more comfy. But yeah, I just the back
- 21:24Speaker 3: or like the that lower portion of the bullpen is
- 21:27Speaker 3: a little concerning, and I don't know about like if
- 21:30Speaker 3: there's really any options in triple A that I mean,
- 21:33Speaker 3: there's like Evan sisk Is another lefty who's down there
- 21:36Speaker 3: right now. Uh not my top option, uh, Brandon Bidoit
- 21:42Speaker 3: uh or beat Us. I think it's Badoa just got
- 21:46Speaker 3: added to the forty man, I think, right, and has
- 21:49Speaker 3: some really really nasty stuff like analytics nerds love him.
- 21:54Speaker 3: And so yeah, I mean there's limited options, but like
- 21:58Speaker 3: you said, like, if we're giving up on these guys,
- 22:00Speaker 3: they're going to be DF eight And yeah, I don't
- 22:04Speaker 3: know if you're ready to DFA Justin Lawrence or anyone
- 22:07Speaker 3: else yet.
- 22:07Speaker 2: So and it kind of ties back to the early
- 22:11Speaker 2: point where it's like, oh, well, you have a really
- 22:14Speaker 2: good back end of the bullpen, if only you could
- 22:16Speaker 2: avoid having to rely on your middle relief this month.
- 22:21Speaker 3: Right, if only there was a way, Yeah yeah.
- 22:23Speaker 1: If only you could let guys throw like ten to fifteen.
- 22:26Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe let's not get crazy here, Josh, yeah.
- 22:31Speaker 2: I And again, like I don't necessarily hate the idea
- 22:34Speaker 2: of having a quick cook for some of these guys,
- 22:36Speaker 2: Like like you look at like some abobb A Chandler outings,
- 22:39Speaker 2: some Abubba Chandler's outings, for example, like he didn't throw
- 22:42Speaker 2: a lot of pitches, but when you're seventy ish pitches
- 22:47Speaker 2: into a game and you've already issued five walks, like yeah, yeah, man,
- 22:50Speaker 2: like it might yes, yeah, right, And like the reality
- 22:57Speaker 2: is their best middle reliever is a story right now.
- 23:01Speaker 2: Carbon Maginsky moving into the position that Hunter Barco is
- 23:05Speaker 2: in makes this team better. So they kind of just
- 23:08Speaker 2: got to hold it down until Jared Jones is back,
- 23:12Speaker 2: I guess, or maybe Jared Jones is gonna pitch in
- 23:14Speaker 2: relief too. I mean, Ben Sherrington kind of talked about
- 23:17Speaker 2: earlier this week about how they're gonna have to get
- 23:19Speaker 2: creative on how everyone's used. So I think there are
- 23:23Speaker 2: a couple of guys who could be those tweener guys.
- 23:26Speaker 2: But when I look at this bullpen. I mean you
- 23:27Speaker 2: look at the metrics, a lot of stuff they rank
- 23:31Speaker 2: in like toward the middle or just past the middle.
- 23:34Speaker 1: In the league, eighteenth.
- 23:36Speaker 2: In RLA War, Yeah, seventeenth, and left on base percentage
- 23:42Speaker 2: their fifth worst. And fly ball to home run ratio,
- 23:45Speaker 2: which just shows that like when they're getting barreled, it's
- 23:49Speaker 2: not ending well. Yeah, and they're they're allowing they're striking
- 23:55Speaker 2: out a lot of guys. So like that's kind of
- 23:57Speaker 2: the scouting report coming out of camp is like there
- 23:59Speaker 2: is nasty stuff here, but it's just not gelling all
- 24:03Speaker 2: the way and I'm curious to see what they do.
- 24:06Speaker 2: It makes me wonder, like is it worth bringing up
- 24:09Speaker 2: like a Mic Clevenger to pitch out of the pen
- 24:12Speaker 2: who can cover multiple Yeah, like it you can option
- 24:17Speaker 2: Barco down. You would have to create a forty man
- 24:19Speaker 2: roster spot for Clevenger.
- 24:23Speaker 1: But it's it's it's stuff like that.
- 24:25Speaker 2: Or maybe they go dumpster diving again, like we've seen
- 24:29Speaker 2: them do that mid season plenty of times, where they
- 24:31Speaker 2: go waiver wire shopping and they find a guy with
- 24:35Speaker 2: nasty stuff and sometimes it doesn't work, but sometimes you
- 24:37Speaker 2: find a den of Santana and like This is an
- 24:41Speaker 2: organization who has I still think a very good pitching
- 24:45Speaker 2: group that's there.
- 24:46Speaker 1: That's their calling card.
- 24:47Speaker 2: They recognize traits of good pictures and sometimes it works
- 24:51Speaker 2: and sometimes it doesn't. But when you look like you
- 24:55Speaker 2: look back to the trade that was made in March,
- 24:57Speaker 2: I think Kyle Nicholas would be a nice piece in
- 25:00Speaker 2: this bullpen right now. As opposed to Tyler Callahan, who
- 25:03Speaker 2: is in Indianapolis, like he didn't even make the team
- 25:08Speaker 2: despite having a spot wide open for him at third base.
- 25:12Speaker 2: Kyle Nicholas would be helping this team probably win more
- 25:15Speaker 2: games right now.
- 25:17Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just interesting.
- 25:20Speaker 2: It feels like, you know, Mark, you mentioned you're worry
- 25:24Speaker 2: about the starting depth. I personally think the bullpen depth
- 25:28Speaker 2: is a bigger concern. I think that's a spot where
- 25:30Speaker 2: they're going to have to start making additions, probably before
- 25:34Speaker 2: the month ends. And I'm not saying, like, you know,
- 25:36Speaker 2: go out and trade prospects or anything, but you need
- 25:40Speaker 2: to start looking at what else is available because if
- 25:43Speaker 2: your best options, I mean, Bedoir is an interesting player,
- 25:46Speaker 2: but he is not proven at all, so like you
- 25:51Speaker 2: need someone who's at least been in the show a
- 25:53Speaker 2: little bit if guys like Barco and Montgomery, who they
- 25:59Speaker 2: have options, those are your only two guys really who
- 26:01Speaker 2: can be up down guys unless you want to start
- 26:04Speaker 2: dfaming people and.
- 26:05Speaker 3: The right Yeah, and would you bring Thomas Harrington up.
- 26:09Speaker 3: That's the name I overlooked when we talked about the
- 26:11Speaker 3: starters as far as depth. You know, so there are
- 26:15Speaker 3: arms in the system, but.
- 26:17Speaker 5: I mean, as you said, if there are arms, but
- 26:21Speaker 5: at the same time, if you're not gonna get them
- 26:23Speaker 5: into the six seventh and.
- 26:25Speaker 4: Then you relying a lot on the bullpen.
- 26:27Speaker 5: And through these first twelve games, as you said, no
- 26:30Speaker 5: other sample size, they got some strikeouts, but when they're
- 26:33Speaker 5: in the owner getting hit really hard. So maybe, you know,
- 26:39Speaker 5: some things change. Baseball is a funny game. Maybe some
- 26:42Speaker 5: of that hard contact turns into the outs, or maybe
- 26:44Speaker 5: they can limit the hard contact, which is what every
- 26:46Speaker 5: pitcher is trying to do. But as you said, something's
- 26:49Speaker 5: that you can't go to the end of the month
- 26:51Speaker 5: with these same type of bullpen walls because you can't
- 26:54Speaker 5: have good starting performances and then not.
- 26:56Speaker 4: Be able to get to the back end of the bullpen.
- 26:59Speaker 4: You got to be able to lost. You have to
- 27:00Speaker 4: be able to bridge that gap.
- 27:03Speaker 3: All right, Josh.
- 27:05Speaker 2: For reference, Kyle Nicholas is in triple A right now
- 27:08Speaker 2: for Indianapolis or for Cincinnati.
- 27:11Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that would be Louisville. He is.
- 27:15Speaker 2: He's pitched four times, he has a two o eight
- 27:17Speaker 2: earned run average over four and a third inning, he
- 27:20Speaker 2: struck out seven. So I think it would be safe
- 27:23Speaker 2: to say, I know those are triple A numbers, but
- 27:25Speaker 2: like Kyle Nicholas would be a better option than some
- 27:28Speaker 2: of the guys on this team right now.
- 27:29Speaker 1: He just would be.
- 27:30Speaker 2: So we'll see if Tyler Callahan can ever provide that
- 27:34Speaker 2: type of value.
- 27:35Speaker 1: I don't know.
- 27:38Speaker 5: Yeah, Jay, now, all right, bring a nice little into
- 27:42Speaker 5: the segment. Jay Hay was gonna just rip the wave
- 27:46Speaker 5: of this past opening week m pn C. You know,
- 27:49Speaker 5: it started with opening day kind of griff and making
- 27:52Speaker 5: you know, his debut, and the Pirates going on to
- 27:55Speaker 5: win that and having a nice opening stand and uh,
- 27:58Speaker 5: you know, closing it off with you know, announcing the
- 28:01Speaker 5: contract extension with Connor. But it's not just about Connor's
- 28:04Speaker 5: about the Pirates and just one riding that momentum of
- 28:07Speaker 5: you know, to start to the opening of the season.
- 28:09Speaker 5: They had a great opening stand. You know, I know
- 28:12Speaker 5: we've talked about the starting pitching and bullpen and whatnot,
- 28:15Speaker 5: but overall, I thought it was a really good job
- 28:17Speaker 5: on the Pirates.
- 28:18Speaker 4: So my jay now was for the.
- 28:20Speaker 5: Pirates, the team in general, but you know, even throwing
- 28:23Speaker 5: a little bit to the organization being able to you know,
- 28:26Speaker 5: put this behind. You know, all the media, I know
- 28:29Speaker 5: them in general, and not only just Connor, but the
- 28:31Speaker 5: Pirates themselves. Are you know, glad to know that, you know,
- 28:34Speaker 5: this contract is done, there's no more What are the
- 28:36Speaker 5: Pirate's gonna do with Connor? And you know now it's
- 28:38Speaker 5: you know, rite that momentum in Pirates keep rocking. So
- 28:42Speaker 5: my jay hay now was a great week, great opening
- 28:45Speaker 5: week from start to end. Great vibes. Havn't been there,
- 28:50Speaker 5: but I can feel the energy, you know, just tuning
- 28:52Speaker 5: in and watching things. So that's my that's my kudos
- 28:55Speaker 5: for you know, this.
- 28:56Speaker 3: Segment and just to kind of show that what the
- 29:00Speaker 3: momentum is like with the fan base and everything right now.
- 29:03Speaker 3: Uh with the City Connect release. I was talking to
- 29:06Speaker 3: a friend who lives in Pittsville. Yeah, he went and
- 29:11Speaker 3: got he wanted to go get one of the City
- 29:13Speaker 3: Connect jerseys, and he waited twenty five minutes just to
- 29:17Speaker 3: get into the team store, which is just it's ten
- 29:20Speaker 3: am off day. There's no like, there's no game even
- 29:25Speaker 3: this weekend. They're in Chicago. Pirates fans are lined up
- 29:28Speaker 3: twenty five minutes outside PNC Park on a Thursday afternoon
- 29:31Speaker 3: just for a jersey release that Noah hates and says sucks.
- 29:35Speaker 1: It does now the rest of our merch is pretty sick.
- 29:38Speaker 2: I am not going to sit here and say that,
- 29:40Speaker 2: Like I like, objectively speaking, the Pirates black and gold
- 29:44Speaker 2: is a sweet color scheme and most of their jerseys
- 29:48Speaker 2: are cool. I just think the City Connectors, I love them.
- 29:52Speaker 1: I'm yeah, I just don't like.
- 29:57Speaker 3: Yeah, they look really good on AJP. That was pretty sweet. Yeah,
- 30:02Speaker 3: that video was awesome. If you guys listen haven't seen
- 30:05Speaker 3: that yet, go check out the Pirates social release. Great
- 30:08Speaker 3: job sterling on that.
- 30:10Speaker 4: Yeah.
- 30:10Speaker 2: Yeah, to build off what Mark was saying though real quick. Yeah,
- 30:15Speaker 2: as much as I just like, you know, the City
- 30:19Speaker 2: Connect jerseys, and I do feel like we've been pretty
- 30:22Speaker 2: critical on this show just of like, you know, the
- 30:24Speaker 2: pitching and just kind of highlighting certain things. I do
- 30:27Speaker 2: want to take time to say, like, it is more
- 30:30Speaker 2: positive around this team than I've ever seen it.
- 30:33Speaker 3: I mean, I.
- 30:34Speaker 2: Remember being at the ballpark when Kutch came back in
- 30:37Speaker 2: twenty three. Obviously, I covered the team in twenty four
- 30:41Speaker 2: when they bought it the deadline and they were a
- 30:42Speaker 2: couple of games away from the playoffs. I covered the
- 30:45Speaker 2: team towards the tail end of Josh's time there when
- 30:47Speaker 2: they were competing as well.
- 30:50Speaker 1: But it just it is a little different. I mean,
- 30:52Speaker 1: they're doing things that fans.
- 30:53Speaker 2: Have wanted to see them do for a very long
- 30:55Speaker 2: time for most of my life, honestly, going out and
- 30:58Speaker 2: getting all stars through trades, through free agency, promoting guys
- 31:03Speaker 2: who can help you win now rather than messing around
- 31:06Speaker 2: with some service time nonsense, and then identifying someone who
- 31:10Speaker 2: you think can help when you win now and in
- 31:12Speaker 2: the future and securing that Like that's that's building a core.
- 31:16Speaker 1: That's what winning teams do.
- 31:18Speaker 2: So I give them kudos for that, Like they've earned
- 31:21Speaker 2: all this goodwill. Now what advantages because everyone's wearing an
- 31:25Speaker 2: ugly city connection. I'm not gonna feel bad for that, No,
- 31:29Speaker 2: But in all seriousness, I mean, this team does I
- 31:32Speaker 2: think have flaws. I still maintain that, Like, you know,
- 31:36Speaker 2: it was a good homestand, but I think that homestand
- 31:39Speaker 2: is gonna be reflective of what we're gonna see this season.
- 31:42Speaker 2: When they're good, they're gonna look really good and they're
- 31:44Speaker 2: gonna be fun to watch. And when they're bad, it's
- 31:46Speaker 2: gonna be ugly baseball. It's gonna make pull your hair out.
- 31:49Speaker 2: That's kind of how this team looks right now now.
- 31:52Speaker 2: If certain guys develop certain ways, if certain you know
- 31:55Speaker 2: players outperform, if certain guys stay healthy, if certain guys
- 31:59Speaker 2: come back healthy, they're gonna be a better team, and
- 32:02Speaker 2: they might even be a playoff team. But at the
- 32:05Speaker 2: very least, like they've earned this goodwill. They've earned everyone's
- 32:08Speaker 2: right to be excited. They've earned that line, that twenty
- 32:11Speaker 2: minute weight line at the team store on a Thursday
- 32:14Speaker 2: on an off day in early April, Like they've earned that,
- 32:17Speaker 2: and kudos to them that people like at this point
- 32:21Speaker 2: of the season last year, people were already checked out,
- 32:24Speaker 2: which is crazy to say, But in April ninth last year,
- 32:27Speaker 2: we were talking about bricks and an advertiser. Yeah, because
- 32:32Speaker 2: the baseball was so bad, no one even cared, right,
- 32:36Speaker 2: I mean and Manuel Valdez, a guy who just got
- 32:38Speaker 2: DFAED was.
- 32:38Speaker 1: Like hitting clean up for this team last year at
- 32:41Speaker 1: this point. So they have come a long way.
- 32:43Speaker 2: They deserve that praise, and it's nice that now, like
- 32:47Speaker 2: when we're criticizing them, we're talking about like, Okay, well
- 32:50Speaker 2: it be good enough to make the playoffs.
- 32:52Speaker 1: Or will it be good enough to just get by?
- 32:54Speaker 2: As opposed to last year where we're at anytime I
- 32:57Speaker 2: would provide an outsis it's like I just don't see
- 32:59Speaker 2: how this is going to be sustained for a week.
- 33:01Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, expectations are completely different.
- 33:04Speaker 4: Yeah.
- 33:04Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's why there's the vibes with the cone,
- 33:08Speaker 2: the welder's hat, you know, the Connor Griffin mania, all
- 33:12Speaker 2: of it. Like all this is earned and so kudos
- 33:14Speaker 2: to the Pirates for putting it all together.
- 33:18Speaker 3: All right, just a little final thoughts, Josh, you have anything.
- 33:24Speaker 4: Covered with now? Yeah, So if y'all got anything, y'all
- 33:28Speaker 4: fire away.
- 33:29Speaker 3: Yeah. I'll just remind everyone, if you're listening thirty minutes
- 33:32Speaker 3: into this, make sure you hit that subscribe button. We'd
- 33:34Speaker 3: really appreciate it. We're trying to get to three thousand
- 33:37Speaker 3: subs here and can't do it without your guys help
- 33:39Speaker 3: and appreciate everyone that's already subscribe. And then also we
- 33:43Speaker 3: have some merch available in our team store. We got
- 33:47Speaker 3: the hoodies, the t shirts, everything suggested last week. You know,
- 33:51Speaker 3: if you want to really bring your cone in a
- 33:53Speaker 3: nice bag, we got a Duffel bag. Show up to
- 33:56Speaker 3: the ballpark, rock in your cone like that. Noah, any
- 34:00Speaker 3: final thoughts.
- 34:02Speaker 1: No, not at all. I appreciate the solo camera.
- 34:04Speaker 3: Yeah, may have miss clicked.
- 34:06Speaker 2: Yeah, he's Josh Harrison.
- 34:09Speaker 1: He's applied to key A k A Mark.
- 34:11Speaker 2: I'm Noah Haile, signing off saying thanks for tuning in
- 34:14Speaker 2: to another episode of Buco Territory, presented to you by
- 34:16Speaker 2: the Foul Territory Network