Latest / Serious Lady Business / Detroit Series: Retail as Rebellion with Angela Wisniewski-Cobbina
Transcript
- Leslie Youngblood (00:01) Welcome to Serious Lady Business. I'm Leslie Youngblood, your host, feminist and founder of Youngblood MMC, a marketing media and content agency. Today we are joined by Angela Woznowski-Kabana. Angela is a mother, stylist and founder of Coup d'etat, a Detroit based brick and mortar. Hold on, do you wanna stop? I didn't ask, is it Coup d'etat? Am I saying it right? That I had it underlined to ask and they didn't. I'm like so not a French speaker. Angela Wisniewski (00:19) It is? Yeah, that was perfect. You got it. No, kudetwa is the pronunciation. It's not kudetwa. It's just like, it's just the word. It's kudetwa. So you did great. Yes, you nailed it. Yeah. Wiesniewski Kavanaugh, you did it. Yep. You did it. Leslie Youngblood (00:29) Kudeta. Kudeta. Kudeta. Wasnetsky kabana. Did I get it? Wasnetsky. Wasnetsky. Wasnetsky kabana. Okay, see I did it. Okay. Watch this. This'll be edited out. Okay, I'm gonna start over. All right, in three, two. Angela Wisniewski (00:42) We're gonna start over, it's okay. Leslie Youngblood (00:47) Welcome to Serious Lady Business. I'm Leslie Youngblood, your host, feminist, and founder of Youngblood MMC, a marketing, media, and content agency. Today, we are joined by Angela Wisniewski-Kabana. Angela is a mother, stylist, and founder of Coup d'Etat, a Detroit-based brick and mortar boutique recently recognized by the New York Times as one of the top 50 clothing stores in the United States. Welcome, Angela. Angela Wisniewski (01:11) Thank you. Hi, Leslie. Thank you for having me. a fun distraction. Leslie Youngblood (01:14) I, you're, yes, yes, exactly. We all need some distractions, joy in this world right now. Angela Wisniewski (01:22) conversations. Leslie Youngblood (01:23) and important conversations, which is what we are going to have. I want to really just, you know, we're talking retail as rebellion. And I think that is so more poignant than ever right now. And I would love for you, we previously spoke, you shared this concept and I would love for you to unpack that a bit for us and what that means to you. Angela Wisniewski (01:45) Okay, so when I think about, and I wanna be specific, it's independent retail as rebellion. But when I launched the store in 2019, that was always kind of my vision. And in the past decade, and specifically the past five years, Leslie Youngblood (01:54) Yes! Angela Wisniewski (02:08) many consumers have shifted how they consume, what they consume, and where they consume it. So in the heydays of brick and mortar retail, like the 90s, when I fall in love with retail as a tween, those days are long gone. So just the amount of empty spaces we see, and we're going to continue to see that. I think in 2024, maybe close to 70 % of businesses. closed, we're going to continue to see that, especially the small mom and pop. So when I say. retail as rebellion. mean, the independents, the mom and pops, the brick and mortars, the people who put their, their heart and soul and life savings often into having these actual physical spaces in a community, whether that's in a downtown district or kind of off the beaten path. ⁓ These are very important places as we continue to spiral into the digital abyss. So having that even just having the idea to do it, let alone try to get it funded, keep people coming in, it's a challenge. And I have many people who have small businesses, many friends that have small businesses, and every year it's just going to get increasingly more difficult unless the public decides to break up with some of our, and I say our because I'm not a perfect consumer, ⁓ break up with some of our our shopping habits, you know, so. Leslie Youngblood (03:48) Yes, it's inaudacious. mean... Becoming a business owner or an entrepreneur is an audacious endeavor, regardless. Brick and mortar in retail, I can imagine, is the most audacious you can be, you know, especially because, like you said, it's a space, it's a physical space you're driving people to. Yes, there's online that, of course, will be folded into that, but you're creating a community space in a world that is obsessed with AI and the metaverse and bitcoins and everything is so digitally Angela Wisniewski (04:19) Peace. Leslie Youngblood (04:20) And with these spaces, I think are more important than ever. And I know you share this sentiment because they create conversations in community in ways that digital spaces cannot. And I would love to hear how you've seen that, how these physical spaces and stores can't replicate, can't be replicated in the digital ways. ⁓ Angela Wisniewski (04:25) Thank Yes, and this is precisely the importance. And I'm just comparing it to, let's say, a social media platform where you might in this day and age try to have a constructive conversation with somebody. More than that. And I'll take that aside just because I'm a little fired up right now. But when you have a space and you invite somebody in, and this goes to your home too, you are opening up Leslie Youngblood (04:52) I don't know, can you? ⁓ Angela Wisniewski (05:07) a personal dialogue, right? This is body language, there's pheromones involved, there's voices, there's ⁓ tone and feelings, and you can't really convey that online, you know? And for me, when somebody comes in the shop, whether they're just browsing or just in the neighborhood or didn't ever come in before, or they're actually like, hey, I'm here to shop, can you help me? You know? Leslie Youngblood (05:21) Mm-hmm. Angela Wisniewski (05:34) That's an important part of just coexisting in the community and just coexisting in the world. And I think it's becoming harder for some people to see the value in that when we've gotten so used to having something. delivered 20 seconds ago, right? So which ultimately can also lead to over consumption, which is a different discussion. ⁓ But having a space to touch things and feel things and talk to a professional who can tell you about the process of, or the designer, or the ingredients in this face serum, or, you know, where this jewelry was made by hands or these leather bags, like, Leslie Youngblood (05:55) Yeah. Angela Wisniewski (06:21) These types of things ⁓ are important and valuable for also creating and continuing a sustainable wardrobe and figuring out your personal style too, right? So we don't all morph into the same person that we're seeing in our algorithm, you know? Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (06:30) Mmm. Yeah. Yeah, that drives me crazy, right? mean, and it's okay. There's different strokes for different folks, right? It's like something that makes me crazy is you go to the shopping malls or even the online, the big, I don't know. I don't wanna say the big guys, which I don't, but it's like everything is the same. Everything is the same. I'm like, what? I don't get it. Like, can't you give me something different? Like I'm so bored. I'm so bored. And that I think, and what you have done so incredibly well with coup d'etat is I'm never gonna be bored. Angela Wisniewski (06:59) big guy. Yeah, yeah, we know it. Leslie Youngblood (07:17) and I would challenge anybody to go into an independent coffee shop, an independent retail space, you are not going to get the cotton paste that you've had. Exactly, exactly. It's going to feel so different and special. Angela Wisniewski (07:24) Yes, true. Leslie Youngblood (07:31) just in and of itself for that pure fact. so, and it's, I think it's a lost, it is like something that we're losing and it's frustrating because I want everybody to be the same. That's why I think it's so beautiful about people in general, right? Like we're all different. Why can't, and I want to embrace it if I want people, you know, I want to see somebody wearing something that I would never wear, but I appreciate that you're wearing that because you tells me you have a point of view. Angela Wisniewski (07:45) Yeah, right. Right, right. And that is, I don't know if we'll go into this later, but. wardrobe and how you present yourself is a non-verbal cue, right? And it's a non-verbal cue. And listen, there are some mornings where I am not presenting the best version of myself when I'm taking my daughter to school. And it is what it is, and that's OK. I'm not obsessed with looking polished and pristine every time I go somewhere, which I probably should consider more as a business owner and a stylist. But I'm also a real person. But like, Leslie Youngblood (08:15) Yeah. Sweet. Angela Wisniewski (08:31) You owe it to yourself and to show up for yourself. And even on the hardest days, and I know because I've been there, but the difference of getting yourself together, if that makes you feel better, if you wear makeup or not, certain things, how you style your hair, even just showering can be a challenge for people, Just depending on what's happening. ⁓ So you really owe it to yourself. Leslie Youngblood (08:36) Mmm. Sure, yes, Yes. Angela Wisniewski (09:00) to use it as a tool, to use it as a tool of power and as communication. And this is off a recent conversation too that Michelle Obama just had. ⁓ And she kind of covered the same topic. I was so glad to see somebody like her say this. And I think specifically in this time where I'm picturing flames behind me right now and I'm standing in front of them like. Leslie Youngblood (09:05) Yes. Yes. right, the house is burning and it's like this is fine. Angela Wisniewski (09:27) out and I'm you know but it does seem things like this can seem frivolous but if you allow yourself to feel and also be in control of what you're wearing, what you're doing, what you're saying, I feel like it can actually be a powerful, beneficial to help you get through certain things, or at least help you land that job interview. Maybe you get a date or something. There's all these ways to kind of use it as a tool to amplify who you are. I don't think that clothing should be the most interesting thing about you. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (09:51) Yes. Angela Wisniewski (10:04) but an accompaniment to who you are. That's how I feel. Leslie Youngblood (10:07) 100%. I completely agree. And I think, and we don't have to go here if you don't want to, but I think my perspective is it really grinds me because I think that frivolous thinking of style or clothing or beauty is because it's women. And they've used that to... to demean women and to keep women in their place. And whereas you see a man in a looking sharp in a suit, it's like, wow, no one would ever be like, wow, he must ignore his kids or his family, or he must be full of himself. It's like, wow, he looks great. He's taking care of himself. And so I feel like it's so sex, it's rooted in sexism. And I completely agree with you that, and so we have this, that structure we've grown up with of like, clothes and it's frivolous, and I don't wanna look like I'm trying to get attention. Angela Wisniewski (10:38) Yeah. Yeah. right. Leslie Youngblood (10:57) God forbid. it's like, no, taking care of yourself, grooming, wearing what makes you feel good and makes you feel like you're expressing the best of yourself or who you want to be. That is self care. That is foundational to a person's spirit. And I love that you shared that and that we are seeing that perspective shift and that is becoming a tool for power and that you realize that you could harness because I think for so long it was not something that was Angela Wisniewski (11:10) Mm-hmm. Yes. Leslie Youngblood (11:27) or like people awkward for embracing it. Angela Wisniewski (11:28) Yeah. Yeah. And I do think, you know, it's rooted in patriarchy. I agree. And I think for and just hearing some of the comments you say often might even come from women, which is horrifying to bring each other down like, she she should be this when I hear, you know, the the condemnation about new mothers and taking care of themselves and like. Leslie Youngblood (11:40) Right, sure. Mmm. Angela Wisniewski (11:53) That's one of the most raw, challenging, mentally, physically times of your life, right? And it's like, she should be doing this. Like, worry about yourself, worry about your family, worry about making yourself happy and your ambitions. And it's easy to put somebody down or to have these ideas about somebody. And usually when it happens, it's from people who hate themselves. But, you know, it's like the most confident women and the most confident people are not. Leslie Youngblood (12:02) Right. Exactly. Angela Wisniewski (12:22) bashing people in this way, you know, especially about their appearance, you know, that's like, that's like the lowest thing to me that you that you could do, you know, so using it again as as a way to show up for yourself, show up for the women in your life and show up, you know, to be the best version of yourself, whatever your career is, you know, like it's just ⁓ a nice thing to take into consideration. Leslie Youngblood (12:24) Right? Right? Yes. Yes, I completely agree. And I love too that Michelle Obama, a powerful woman, is talking about this too. I think it's important to see those leaders having conversations and creating those conversations between others like us. Because the more we have, the better. Angela Wisniewski (13:03) And she's, know, her stylist's name is slipping my mind right now and she's great, but what she's been able to, yes, and you've seen her when she came out of the White House, I loved seeing her embrace this more fun, playful, aesthetic, long braids, just these beauty things that she could not have gotten away with. Leslie Youngblood (13:09) Her outfits. Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. The thought that goes into this. Angela Wisniewski (13:30) in America and it's sad and pathetic and like I get enraged thinking about it and I remember at the time I remember when you know when they were the first family the first time and watching everybody obsessed over her dress her arms you know this ferox tan suit like these are the things that are crazy when you think about it any any sort of way Leslie Youngblood (13:31) Hmm. I am not a robot. Mm-hmm. Mm. ⁓ Wah! Angela Wisniewski (13:59) to bring somebody down or anybody who's like new to a specific position, you know? And when you do that and we don't see it as ⁓ a choice of what somebody can wear, they look just as good, but people will find a problem with it. And so to that, say, show up, look great, look your best because they're gonna knock you either way, you know? Leslie Youngblood (14:05) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yup. Angela Wisniewski (14:29) we're gonna knock you either way, right? So pay attention, read the room, but also be yourself and whatever that looks like for you. Leslie Youngblood (14:38) Yes, and they, her stylist, I can't remember their name right now, but they put so much thought and care and there's a story to it. Like I think there was like a Simone Rochelle pearl, ⁓ once she wore it, it was a callback to something she wore when she was first lady. I'm like, my God, like I live for that. And like that translates into how she feels when she's wearing it. And it tells a story. Like there's, it's just the opportunity to tell stories. And like you said, convey who you are in your message and what you stand for. Angela Wisniewski (14:49) broken particles. Yeah, I ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (15:08) and all the things can be conveyed through just the art of wearing clothes. Like it's really quite incredible and powerful. Angela Wisniewski (15:13) Yes. Yeah, and it can be, you know, to take this even a little step further, like the quirkier styles or ⁓ not adhering to ⁓ a certain standard of beauty is resistance, you know, not for the male gaze is resistance, being outrageous pattern clashing. Leslie Youngblood (15:30) Yes. Angela Wisniewski (15:36) having, you know, like asymmetrical makeup or a darker lip color that looks, you know, interesting. This is all small but forms of resistance. Leslie Youngblood (15:49) 100%. I mean, that calls to mind, like you just mentioned, back during World War II, Nazis didn't want women. They wanted that, ⁓ perfect German woman and it didn't involve them wearing lipstick. And so British women would wear bright red lipstick as a form of resistance and to demonstrate and it's just that simple act of like, yes, you can utilize that as resistance and let alone wearing pins, know, shirts, merch and all the different, you know, more obvious ways that we can demonstrate, you know, our resistance. But those things too speak volumes. It's just... Angela Wisniewski (16:18) Thanks. Yeah, there are these little signals, right? That are also like, this is who I am, don't mess with me. That's like, when I get dressed, that's like usually what is going through my head. Maybe that sounds a little aggressive, but you know, it's a shield. It's like a, it's a shield. a, ⁓ it's just like a guard, you know. Leslie Youngblood (16:29) Yeah, that's so powerful. Yeah, I love it. Or, yeah. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love it. It's just, yes, I completely agree. Have you always felt this way about clothing, Angela? You know, take us back to when you opened your store or even when you first had the idea for this store. I would love to hear about the backstory. Angela Wisniewski (17:00) So I have always been obsessed with clothing and obsessed with ⁓ retail and brick and mortar shops. And growing up in the Metro Detroit area, ⁓ as soon as I got my first... job, busing tables in seventh grade. ⁓ cause I wanted to buy clothes. I wanted, I wanted to buy clothes and I would make my mom or my dad, whoever I had around me at that time, I would make them drive me to, you know, at the time there was, you know, a lot more independent brick and mortars in Royal Oak, Burndale, Birmingham, even Leslie Youngblood (17:20) Right. Even Detroit wasn't Showtime in Detroit, wasn't Angela Wisniewski (17:42) Yep, Showtime. Showtime. When I first got into it, his stuff would have been a little advanced for me. came to Nino and Royal Oak, where I also worked in college. we would go to Trapper's Alley when we were kids. I think I just saw how cool these places were and how they could transport you into a little Leslie Youngblood (17:48) Yeah, it was pretty advanced. Angela Wisniewski (18:09) different universe, you know? And that was the power of these brick and mortar stores. you know, don't get me wrong. I probably, I shopped at the mall too. I was definitely a Contempo Casuals girly. for what it was, it was an amazing store in a mall. But that being said, I really, as I continued to get older and in my teenage years and definitely throughout that, I really continued to gravitate toward. Leslie Youngblood (18:11) Yeah. Yes. Yes. Angela Wisniewski (18:32) the kind of fringe and the independents and the people who kind of had stuff that I wasn't seeing on regular basis because that was way more interesting to me. So, you know, I think since I was a kid, ⁓ like I remember in elementary school, would, I would ⁓ plan my, I would set out my outfits and some days I would be so excited about the outfit. I would sleep in it. I remember there was this one... Leslie Youngblood (18:40) Mm-hmm. Angela Wisniewski (18:57) ⁓ like it wasn't even anything special. I don't know if it was secondhand or it was actually from Kmart. I don't, I don't know, but I remember being really young and I had this like checkered or houndstooth like black vest and a turtleneck and these like black jeans or black pants. And I was so excited to wear this outfit. And I feel like my mom gave me a hard time or like was like, you're not sleeping in that. ⁓ but this is, it's been, it's been important to me since, since I was very young. Leslie Youngblood (19:26) Yeah, yeah, I love it. And so when did the idea of a store come into play for you? Because you were in marketing, right, for many years. Tell us about that. Angela Wisniewski (19:34) That's also something that I think I always daydreamed about as a kid. And I think no matter what job I was in or what career I was in, in I, it was that little thing that was in the back of my mind, which kind of goes back to, you know, advice to a woman. ⁓ But it was that, it was that idea that just never went away. It was like, no matter what I did and where I traveled to and who I was working for, you know, what clients I had, there was this thing that was like, Hello, like I'm still here for years, you know? And I think when you have that, it's a calling. It's like a very spiritual calling that you have to pay attention to. I think these things can guide us in our lives. I think your intuition and your little voice, we all have it. You have to pay attention to it. Leslie Youngblood (20:19) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Angela Wisniewski (20:30) So I think in about 20, I would say about 2015, I was like, I have to figure out how to make this happen. I no idea how I'm gonna do this. I don't have the money to do this. I don't have the resources to do this for the type of business that I wanted, which is where it is now six years in, but I just knew I had to figure it out. And I had to figure it out. And then came the ideating and coming up with the name and, you know, trying to get people around me and get the support and ask my friends who had small businesses, their thoughts. And, you know, I some folks that were so helpful and here's what you need to consider for square footage and how much money you want to make and just all these things that still never clicked to me. But, ⁓ you know, you have to just start doing the work because there's no guidebook. you know, for this stuff and you just have to start doing it. If that passion idea is there, I think you have to just pursue it. So then came, I collaborated with ⁓ some people in the city to help me make a deck ⁓ to kind of get the ideas down on paper in a presentable way. So then I can go beg people to sell to me or maybe give me a loan. Leslie Youngblood (21:22) Mm-hmm. Angela Wisniewski (21:46) which was not great, but not a lot of people want to invest in retail. So it was just like this thing and you have to get your ideas down, you know? And then that took a few years. And then when I was able to kind of get my funding together and put my actual savings into it, I was able, you know, to secure a space and eventually open in 2019. So it wasn't like an overnight thing, you know, at all. It never is. Leslie Youngblood (22:12) Right, right. think that's an important lesson too is because I think now even with the rise of digital and influencers going viral overnight or you see these influencers, these entrepreneurs and their private jets and you're like, wow, they happen so fast or it's not, it's such a ⁓ farce or like, yeah. Angela Wisniewski (22:30) It's a plasaria. Leslie Youngblood (22:31) It's a facade, exactly, it's a facade. And real success takes time. It just seems like it happened overnight because you've been doing the work for so long. And so was it always going to be Detroit, Angela, that you knew you wanted to have the shop in? Or did you consider it was always Detroit? Detroit forever. Angela Wisniewski (22:39) Yeah. Yeah. think part of the reason it took me so long was because I've lived in the city for so long and I do feel my most comfortable and best in the city. And I feel like I just feel at home in the city and that I could express myself in the way that feels natural and comfortable to me. So as the business, as an extension of myself and also a place for self-expression, it just seemed to just make the most sense. I just had to figure out. where that was gonna be that made sense, you know, and take rent into consideration. So I had looked and I had considered, you know, some of the suburban cities, ⁓ you know, which I like, and I have, again, lot of friends that have shops and businesses. I just knew for this particular concept, for me to, for it to feel 100 % right, I do feel like it had to be in the city proper. Leslie Youngblood (23:46) Yeah, you know, and Detroit has such a distinct creative and fashion identity. What do you think people outside the city still don't understand about Detroit style and culture? Angela Wisniewski (23:57) ⁓ You know, there's just so many like old, just like views of the city that I think it's so lazy to me for people to just. Leslie Youngblood (24:12) Mmm. Angela Wisniewski (24:15) think of something that or pay attention to like a local news or something that they see and have no connection to the city and no boots on the ground here and no even family. So it's very easy to fall into that trap of, it's, ⁓ I mean, listen, the city has its flaws. We know that. We're not going to focus on them today. Anybody who says it has its flaws, right? So that being said, there are so much. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (24:34) Any city has its flaws. Any city! Angela Wisniewski (24:44) cool, interesting things happening here. And, you know, it's we have some of the best restaurants, like I said, some of the best stores like our hotels, our communities, our neighborhoods that are diverse and beautiful and cool and markets and just all of this stuff that ⁓ is here and it's here only, you know, and I think it's easy to read a negative news story or not get out of your little bubble, right? And I'm in my little bubble. I'm in my little Detroit bubble, right? So we all kind of exist in them, but I think it's easy to just, you know, see something and just continue to like pick on the, the guy who gets picked on all the time, you know? And then when you're actually in it, you're like, this is, you are lazy and pathetic, you know? Like, come see what's happening here, you know? Leslie Youngblood (25:28) Yeah ⁓ It's funny, I mean... When so I'm an elder millennial and growing up Detroit was had that you grow up with that ⁓ identity of Detroit as like a suburban white person and I was always like Michigan get me out of here. I want to get out of my suburban bubble. New York City is kind of be it for me. I'm moving to New York so I moved to New York and then I got engaged to my husband and he was living in Michigan and my first response after saying yes his proposal was well I'm not moving back to Michigan and he was like no no no that's okay and I'm like okay we'll figure out. Angela Wisniewski (26:01) Thank you. Leslie Youngblood (26:12) Maybe we'll do Chicago. And then I came home that Christmas, the Christmas of 2011, and his friend who was like in the city and like knew of things, he's like, Leslie, I'm going to take you out for a day and I'm going to show you what's happening here. I think you're really going to be surprised. And I'm like, OK, OK, Dave, let's go. And I'm telling you, I felt like a kid pressed against a window, like looking at. like a magical thing. And this was in 2011, but I was like, my God, why was I sleeping on Detroit for so long? There is like a creative energy here. There's, know, it's a city, like you can be involved. There's community. And I went back to, I'm like, I'm going to move back to Michigan. And when I moved back, like people thought I was nuts. My friends thought I was absolutely cuckoo banana pants because I was so excited to move back to Detroit and Michigan. I'm like, New York, you guys don't even know. Like, I will always love you. You always have a special place. Angela Wisniewski (26:40) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. worse. Leslie Youngblood (27:06) there's something so special and I still feel like people are sleeping on Detroit and we've come so far since then even through COVID through all the things I'm sure you witnessed obviously COVID and being a brick and mortar how a difficult situation that was you know for your business as well as just life in general and I just think Detroit still is not getting the love it deserves and but I think we're making progress and I love and you were included on this New York Times list of one of the 50 top independent retailers in Angela Wisniewski (27:10) Yes. Thank Leslie Youngblood (27:36) in the country. What an incredible achievement. What was that moment like for you? Angela Wisniewski (27:37) Yeah. it was, ⁓ it was very surreal to see it actually published. and like, I, I, Didn't even know. so the backstory is I knew we were a contender. but they were pretty, it was a pretty stealth covert operation. ⁓ so back in the early summer, late spring, early summer, somebody had contacted the store, but they wouldn't really answer questions and they would kind of send people in as like mystery people and people documenting the store. So I had really no way of knowing that it was even going to happen. So. Of course, for months I just let it consume me. But I'm like, you know what? If it is what it is, we're gonna just see. I I don't know, can't stop what you're doing every day. And then on December 1st, it ended up actually being my birthday. ⁓ And after a pretty challenging fourth quarter, like start, a friend's... ⁓ A friend texted me in Chicago and it was like one in the morning and I sometimes check my phone. So I woke up earlier than usual and she said, congrats on the New York Times. And I was like, wow, congrats on the New York Times. This is okay. And I was like, my God, like is this thing real? they, and then I sure enough like. Leslie Youngblood (28:55) Business owner. Angela Wisniewski (29:15) pull up the article and there's my weird little store that I've built solo and put my personal life savings into in 2018, 2019. It's just that it was a very surreal feeling that to be recognized on this national level, right? Like, was I just? drive to my store and do what we do, like most small business owners do. You do your thing every day. So to have that sort of recognition from a publication like that really made me think like, OK, somebody's paying attention. Leslie Youngblood (29:59) I'm going to sleep. Angela Wisniewski (30:00) And not today I don't have amazing community and people and clients and stuff, ⁓ it can be exhausting work and retail generally is a wild industry right now. ⁓ a really tiny, tiny shop like mine, don't have, there's not, my racks aren't packed with thousands of pieces of clothing and I don't have 50 sizes in the back. It's such a small, tiny. Leslie Youngblood (30:14) Mm-hmm. Angela Wisniewski (30:28) special, specially curated ⁓ operation that to get noticed in this way and also have it be in the city of Detroit ⁓ and like not the suburbs ⁓ just sent me just into a place of just pure pride, you know? Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (30:47) Yeah, that is so cool. I love that. It is so exciting. like you said, don't need, it's not you need the recognition, but it is so nice to know, because you're going to do it anyways, no matter if you get the recognition or not, right? You're going to keep what you're doing. But it is like a really wonderful feeling to realize that, wow, people are noticing this is something, this is expanded beyond even this Michigan, you know, ⁓ area and to be, you know, in a national publication, national recognition is Angela Wisniewski (30:59) Yes. Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (31:17) just cool and a testament to what you've built and are continuing to build. Angela Wisniewski (31:21) And to kind of piggyback on the conversation we just had, like, oh, well, what do you think people are misunderstanding about Detroit? It's like, you know, like, this isn't Detroit, you know? like, this is... This is a Detroit among many other things that haven't been recognized by the New York Times, you know, but like just maybe it could be eye opening, right? And furthermore, I hope that, you know, it was 50 stores out of 120 that they initially started with and whittled it down to the 50 that were chosen and listed. But I do hope it was kind of a wake up call for people too, like. Leslie Youngblood (31:41) Mmm. Angela Wisniewski (32:01) These stores matter. These conversations matter. Shopping at independent brick and mortar retailers matter. So I hope that it ignited like a little flame for consumers too. Leslie Youngblood (32:16) 100%. I totally agree. think that also it can be said, whether it's a consumer or another small business owner, somebody that's in the retail space or considering that space or even an online digital space, you've been able to build this brand and tell the story so well. How can other small business owners and entrepreneurs show up authentically the way you have to build something amazing without feeling like they have to chase the external validation or even chase the algorithms, Angela. Angela Wisniewski (32:50) Man, this is so hard. mean, doing it digitally, and like, are you talking about like marketing digitally or just, think really just setting the foundation of... Leslie Youngblood (32:58) Yeah. Yeah. Angela Wisniewski (33:03) who you are and what your brand is at the beginning. I definitely modified some things along the way, but at the core, it was rooted in independent emerging design and self-expression and ⁓ having a variety and a mixture of price points, et cetera. So I think really honing in on. what, who and what your brand is. And if you are a founder and you know, there are days where I don't want to be the face of it, to be honest with you. I don't. And then it's, it's my business, you know, and it's hard to not be that and it's hard to disconnect it from it. So you have to be prepared for that and you have to be prepared to have challenging conversations and you have to be prepared to ride the waves of whatever's happening in the social sphere. And Believe in your business, you know, even if people criticize it or if they criticize you or, know, this stuff is going to happen, but you have to be your number one cheerleader every day, you know, and especially if like somebody who doesn't have partners, you know, I don't have a lot of people to bounce ideas off of. just kind of run with it. You know, I have like, my staff is great. but like you just kind of have to believe in. Leslie Youngblood (34:03) Yeah. Angela Wisniewski (34:18) You have to just do it and believe in it and just continue to just walk through the darkness if you don't see the light, you know? It's just like, ⁓ I hope this goes well, or I hope this works, or I hope people come to shop this week. You it's, you really just don't know ⁓ until you try. And then you kind of get, okay, well, this is working, this is working. And then, you know, you'll slowly start to see what's working and what's not ⁓ and continue to define your brand. Leslie Youngblood (34:47) So you mentioned social media and I think there's really interesting stuff to unpack there too. You are somebody that was in marketing and advertising before launching your store. 2019, coup d'etat opens. I feel like since then we've seen, I don't think TikTok was even a thing in 2019. I can't even remember specifically. Angela Wisniewski (35:07) I think it was still like the only like the voice song thing. I don't know. I am very minimally active on TikTok and I was just like, not another. I appreciate its beauty. However, the recent acquisitions is really horrifying. But that being said, the primary methods of I think like digital marketing that were free ⁓ were Facebook and Instagram basically. Leslie Youngblood (35:11) I was all damp with right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, that can help a small business owner connect to an audience for without having to pay for marketing in media. But then it also can become quite harmful. You know, what are the signs that social media is becoming harmful rather than helpful for a business owner that you've experienced and what should people do instead? Angela Wisniewski (35:49) So from the business side, like on the inside, I do think it's important to have a presence. I envy any business that doesn't have to have a social presence, to be honest with you. ⁓ It's just part of our marketing plan. It's part of our marketing strategy. ⁓ I think you have to really be careful. I think... Consumers have to be careful, much like business owners do. If you post something, it can get 15K likes. That doesn't mean anybody's buying it. That doesn't mean anybody's supporting you. So it's this illusion of, I'll even take it a step further, sometimes it's an illusion of community, ⁓ unless you're actually backing it up in... Leslie Youngblood (36:29) you Mmm. Mmm. Angela Wisniewski (36:46) the real life, okay? So like, we're, I'm, this is real, right? Like this tapestry is real. And this conversation is real, we're virtual, but like, as soon as we log into this, we're thrust into this alternate reality, you know? And there's a lot of, and having worked in marketing and digital. Leslie Youngblood (36:47) eight. Angela Wisniewski (37:08) There's a lot of fake it till you make it happening. I'm just going to be very clear on Instagram. know, it's that's, that's what it is. ⁓ businesses are not posting their negative checking out balances, right? They're posting, my God, look at this great event that we had, you know, like they're not posting that their loan got denied. They're not posting that they're a months behind on rent. know, like these are the Leslie Youngblood (37:11) yeah, 100%. Right. ⁓ or they haven't paid taxes, right? Like that's something like, how much are you paying in taxes, man? Cause like, you know. Angela Wisniewski (37:35) yes. They're not saying yes. Like when I have after my calls with my accountant, like those things you have. Those are bad. Those are bad days. ⁓ And that's the reality. And it's really hard to not fall into that. And you really have to take everything with a grain of salt no matter what. And this just doesn't go for brands and marketing. This is this is everything that we're seeing, you know, right now. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (37:42) Go cry in a corner. Yeah. Yeah. Angela Wisniewski (38:06) So using it as a tool again, but also getting outside, talking to your neighbor, going into spaces and places. I really can't stress this enough because it is easy. I noticed, you know, when I opened in 2019, COVID hit four months later. I somehow made it work. But at the time, the... Leslie Youngblood (38:16) Thank Angela Wisniewski (38:31) the messaging from news and local news everybody was like, support, shop small, support small. So my e-comm like skyrocketed for the first two months, because people just wanted stuff, right? They wanted to buy stuff. It was a very strange feeling. And then that... Leslie Youngblood (38:39) Mmm. Angela Wisniewski (38:48) that narrative kind of slows down, right? And you have to like, be like, like guys, remember us, remember the small businesses, you know, that still need your support when the world kind of goes back into the hamster wheel that we're in, you know, always. pay attention with your own like eyes and ears, but also know that there's an entire world that's actually happening in real life too, you know? And oftentimes we are... Leslie Youngblood (38:57) Great. Angela Wisniewski (39:17) so consumed and drawn to the ease and the dopamine and the convenience of what's attracting us to our phones. It was all by design, by the tech bros. They want us sitting in here stewing and doom scrolling and finding something, somebody that we agree with so we can get that pumped into our feeds. set boundaries with it truly and get off. Make plans with your friends. Make plans with people you don't know. I don't know, but just like get out, get off your couch and out of your doomsday mode, you know, because it really is turning everybody into zombies, you know? And I say this because I'm one of the, you know, like I, you know, this isn't a like preachy, like I felt it. Leslie Youngblood (39:57) Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. that the real world... We're not... Right, we're not immune. Yeah. Angela Wisniewski (40:06) Yeah, felt my anxiety rise. I get snappy. And then I'm like, I don't want my daughter seeing me as like the phone obsessed mom. It's like, is that more important than me? Like, this is really scary stuff. These are really scary behaviors and habits that I think most people aren't even really aware of because it's such a part of our lives. Leslie Youngblood (40:10) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I was thinking the other day. I'm sure because I was scrolling while my kids were like watching their show or drawing or whatever I'm like, what did people do before you would sit and scroll your phone? Like maybe you read the newspaper Maybe you also watch the show too And I and I try to it's it's so hard, I'll like I need to read a book I'm not gonna go on my phone at night But it is so easy and with all the madness of the world right now It's almost like you need to know you want to know but then it also makes you feel horrible because what more Or could you know about your like digging and digging and digging further and further and further into the darkness. And it's like the real world is truly what matters in that stuff is not real and happening like truly in this world. But you know, whether it's, you know, going out and meeting your friends or being present with your kids like that is what matters. And it is those like you said, those tech bros did it on purpose to get us to pay attention. And I think he's been, yes. Angela Wisniewski (41:18) Yes. Yeah, they want us locked in, their numbers go up, you know? And like, it's sad, it's really sad when you break it down and think of it like that, because we're all like, oh, the, you know, chaos and with gloss and it's like, nice, no, yeah, it's like, yes, I know, hole, yeah. Leslie Youngblood (41:28) Yes! Yes. Yeah. Hulls, yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I know. I know. I know. And I feel like there is, I just read that there is a landmark lawsuit in California. I think it's a young girl suing Metta and Instagram claiming that they forced her, or like they addicted her to their platforms when she was a kid. And so it's like. Angela Wisniewski (42:02) I heard about that on an MPI recently. Yeah, wild and fascinating. Leslie Youngblood (42:04) Yeah, and so like, wow, that's like, you because obviously we know how toxic it is for kids, let alone grownups. that's, know, with with us, it's like you feel I sometimes feel like I'm ripping my phone out of my hand like, ⁓ you know, but again, the pros and the cons of it all right, like it connects you to brands and it allows small businesses to connect and build audiences and people to change their lives overnight. But then you have like the dark side of it. And it's such a Angela Wisniewski (42:09) Yeah. It's ours too. Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (42:31) difficult thing to navigate and it's not for every single person and I think I also want to call it back to what you said about the stores in real life and the fakeness that exists on social media. And I'm sure that anybody listening, and I know you know this, Angeles, you have these brands on social and they create this false sense of community. And then you go into the store or the restaurant or whatever, and the experience is horrible. It sucks. And you feel so mad and like you wasted your time. And so I think that it's also the internet and digital like brands in that experience Angela Wisniewski (43:00) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. and I'll Leslie Youngblood (43:11) perpetuates like you have to connect that circle. Like you can't just be this on your website or your Instagram or your TikTok. If you don't connect that circle for people when they come and see you that's really when you get them because they could be fans of you for years and they finally get to your store and then they have a bad experience. You're like, I'm not African. I shop there again and it matters more to you. Yeah. Well, not for you. Angela Wisniewski (43:19) Yeah, that's not gonna last. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And to be clear, that's probably happened. You like that's probably happened. I don't know. You know, I. But it may have like we work hard for it not to happen, you know, so it. But I agree, I think ideally everything should be in alignment and nobody is getting like catfish, you know. From a small business. Leslie Youngblood (43:42) course. Right, right? can get catfished. Yeah, shopping-wise or dating-wise, it's all not good. It's not good. What does success look like for you now, Angela, compared to when you first opened your doors? Angela Wisniewski (43:57) Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, exactly. man, I think, ⁓ the fact that I'm still open, ⁓ which is the bare minimum and you know, even just surviving COVID that first year, ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (44:19) Yeah. Angela Wisniewski (44:21) the way that I did, and this was before I was married, this was before I had a child. And of course that shifts things, right? So, just like making it work and putting your all into it, at that point that was success for me. And then I start, when you're kind of in the weeds for the first year or two. Leslie Youngblood (44:29) works. Angela Wisniewski (44:42) then I start to really like look at my numbers and see what's, ⁓ like this is the stuff I need to be paying attention to because I was just so trying to stay above water, you know? Then, so I think when you're running a business, it changes, right? ⁓ So now six years in, don't like, the fact that I have a brick and mortar concept, ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (44:50) That's good. Angela Wisniewski (45:06) that I believe in and I think now is at a point of where I, not that I've ever not been proud of the shop or the business or the brand, but it's really at such a special elevated place now that ⁓ it's taken building that brick by brick to get some of these brands into, know, it's like ⁓ Tetris, like building all this stuff. So kind of navigating that. ⁓ while all the other things were happening, while I had a child and pretty bad postpartum and anxiety and just all the things that happen as a woman as you're just trying to live your life and do the things that you want to be doing creatively, professionally, ⁓ and all this stuff. there's no guidebook for it. So for me, success at this particular moment today, on this day, is like... Leslie Youngblood (45:55) right. Thank Angela Wisniewski (46:02) Being able to have conversations. I feel good. I'm healthy. My business is doing fine, even though Q1. ⁓ is very challenging for retail, especially Midwest businesses, you know, and these things, but I'm getting things going. I'm planning, you know, I'm hoping for another successful year. You know, my daughter is amazing and my husband is amazing and the people around me are amazing. So these are things that I feel that are success. You know, I, I can't say it's like a certain dollar amount that hits me to like, I made it, you know, and I, it's, I never will say that. I don't think because Leslie Youngblood (46:11) Yes. Angela Wisniewski (46:39) once I accomplish something or once I hit a goal or a number, I just go on to the next thing. I have the next thing and the next thing. I do take time to enjoy it and celebrate things and milestones, specifically like the New York Times thing. ⁓ But we're all just like, we're on to the next thing. So success is a tricky, definitive ⁓ point for me. Leslie Youngblood (47:01) Sure. Right, right. What are you most excited about with Coup this year, Angela? Angela Wisniewski (47:10) We have some really fun ⁓ collaborations in the works. really one thing we did so much last year, I think we've hosted the most events than we ever have in the new space. And that has kind of opened this whole other portal for me of, you know, it's stressful, but it's fun, you know. And as I see again, speaking to the need for places and spaces. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (47:21) Yeah. Angela Wisniewski (47:40) that aren't necessarily bars or restaurants, you know? ⁓ You know, it feels great to be able to platform other people who don't have spaces and, you know, give them the opportunity to sell there and pop up or whatever, but really activating the space in the area and the courtyard is really, ⁓ makes it ⁓ a fulfilling, vibrant piece of the puzzle, you know? So. Leslie Youngblood (47:44) Mm-hmm. Angela Wisniewski (48:09) I want to just continue to do the fun creative marketing stuff that we do and the partnerships and the photo shoots. I really want to amp that up this year in the ways that I have it and just kind of go full throttle without worrying about how it's going to be perceived or just really hope that the money will come in. ⁓ to put myself out there as like the buyer and creative director and you know kind of all the hats. I really just want to take it where I think it really deserves to be. Leslie Youngblood (48:43) Gotcha. Yeah, that's amazing. What do you love most about being a business owner in Detroit, Angela? Angela Wisniewski (48:49) I, you know, I think it's just like such a fun and interesting place to invite people, you know, and again, like things that I'm drawn to about the city, the style, the culture, the arts, the diversity. It's such a fun and interesting range with style and substance that feels just very aligned. Leslie Youngblood (48:59) Mm. Angela Wisniewski (49:15) with what I'm trying to do and who I am, but like what I really am trying to like represent, you know. So it's kind of all of those things. It's shopping here. You know, we do most, if not all of our things, you know, like in the city, eating, dining, drinking, small businesses. Like it's... It's just like a great place, you my little bubble. So having a business that can support that and also knowing that when I'm supporting those businesses, let's say they're in on Kurchvo, let's say they're in, ⁓ you know, a different part in different neighborhoods. Like there's a good chance I'm supporting those businesses that money's going back into this ecosystem, which I think is easy for people to forget, you know, like. Leslie Youngblood (50:02) Mm-hmm. Angela Wisniewski (50:07) We go out, we're at restaurants, we're supporting music venues and small shops and ⁓ salons and all this stuff. And when you're doing that in your community, that money is going back into the community. And when I think about, when I take my daughter to Supino's, her favorite pizza place pretty regularly, I'll see other small business owners there, other people in the community and like... Leslie Youngblood (50:24) Yes. Yeah. Angela Wisniewski (50:35) I, know who I never see there? I never see Jeff Bezos eating there, right? Like I don't see, you know, a lot of these people that people normalize supporting in these huge ways. ⁓ He's not at a show at like a dive bar venue, you know, and he's one example of many of, you know, these things. And I know people are getting really, ⁓ like. Leslie Youngblood (50:38) No. Thank you. Angela Wisniewski (51:00) There's this, you know, the shutdown tomorrow. And I'm just like, I just need people to realize like small businesses are not the issue. You know, small businesses are not the issue. It's big corporate guys, you know, that are not your community. You're not gonna see this, you know. And before you know it, you know, your beloved... Leslie Youngblood (51:04) Thank you. Right. Mm-hmm. Lamerates. Angela Wisniewski (51:23) street corner or wherever you're used to shopping or going getting coffee or you know buying a new sweater is going to be like an Amazon fulfillment center or you know a Walmart or something and or a corporate restaurant and like is this what we want as consumers is this is this truly what we want and if we don't we have to start putting our money where our rage is online you know or where our mouth is you know. Leslie Youngblood (51:34) Yeah. I'm going to go. ⁓ love it. Put your money where your rage is. Yes! Angela Wisniewski (51:52) Money is where your social media rages. And put that into acting and, you know, that's again, circling back to where we started, that's a form of resistance, you know, among the other things, you know. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (51:55) Yes. Yes, yes, 100%. And that's thing too, and I think especially today, people feel like, I don't know what to do. What can I do? What can I possibly do to make a difference? And it's not like you have to join 10 organizations. or you can just go shop small. Like that is an act of rebellion. That is like, you know, instead of doing, like you said, the easy dopamine hit and it's delivered in two hours, it's like actually keeping it local. And it doesn't mean you have to, in the nonprofits and all those organizations are amazing and needed. We need people to do those too. Yes. Angela Wisniewski (52:36) Yes, and the museums and the, you know, all of these places need, and I think it is hard to, I think some folks right now, especially after conversations this week are feeling just kind of like paralyzed. And they don't know what to say or do or how to act. And it's like, you have to just pay attention, do what you can, you know, and take the small steps. Go to the library, get a library card, read a book, you know. Leslie Youngblood (52:48) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes. Angela Wisniewski (53:05) Like show up to a protest if that's what you want to do. Do this. But the little guys and the organizations and the things that are actually in your backyard and community, and this is the nonprofits too, and they all need support. Shift your perspective from your algorithm to the real street that you live on. The road you drive on every day. Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (53:29) Yeah, yeah, right, right, right. And that's the thing too. It's like we all see it like digitally and we ignore what's right in our backyard. It's like, hello. So that's part of the trick too that they're tricking us is like they're freaking us out and all the things, but in like making us realize we can make a difference just by turning around and opening our eyes to what we we live in our communities. Angela Wisniewski (53:39) Yes. Yes, yes, yes. And it's sad that we've gotten this far and that we've even allowed things to get this far. And unfortunately, it's not, I feel like it's not gonna be slowing down. I hope there are some crackdowns on AI creation and, because there can be really scary things ahead of us, you know? it's, yes, so. Leslie Youngblood (54:11) I mean, yeah. Probably even scarier than we could even think of right now because we are I feel like not twisted individuals and that way like right like who knows what people will use it for bad right and they are ⁓ Angela Wisniewski (54:21) Yeah. yeah, it's already there. It's already there with certain content creation things that are harmful and terrifying. But you just have to keep doing what you're doing ⁓ and don't stop if that means supporting a small business, showing up for a non-profit, donating, spreading their message on social. Just like not. supporting some of the big gross, you know, corporate companies that don't need your money and don't care if you live or die. You know, you know. Leslie Youngblood (55:06) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's so easy. I mean, easy. It's not easy to access today or to have to go through it. But it is. You can take those steps. And I think that's such a great reminder for everybody listening. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Angela Wisniewski (55:22) Yeah, well, and have conversations with people. ⁓ And maybe have challenging conversations, which I think we shied away from. And I think I realize this, you know, because it's easy. think when you get digital obsessed, it's so easy to be like, unfollow, remove, mute. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (55:30) Mmm, mm-hmm. Angela Wisniewski (55:44) That's not how the world works in real life, right? But it's almost like sometimes these practices are adopted. It's like by that, we're just like further supporting ourselves, you know, ⁓ and why it is important to continue to reach out to people. know, one of my goals this year, like when I, after Christmas and holidays, I was like, I'm just scheduling dinners. I'm scheduling coffees with people that even if I talk to or just like online or just, just schedule it and go out to a small. Leslie Youngblood (55:59) Yes. Angela Wisniewski (56:14) independent coffee shop or restaurant or bar or something and have a conversation with this person, you know. You'd be shocked, ⁓ you know, with certain people how much you have in common. ⁓ You're not gonna get that connectivity through like a pretty toxic ⁓ social space, especially right now. Leslie Youngblood (56:22) Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Right, that's so true. think everybody listening should take that to heart and get out more into the real world, right? And offline this year and moving forward. And that's, know, they want us to be divided, right? Like that, they want you to be mad at your neighbor for something, not that it's all silly, but that's like, they want us to realize we're more divided than we are alike. And that's, you know, also being a force for good is to have those difficult conversations. Put yourself in those difficult, situations. or things you might not be, where you don't know everybody in the room, right? And it's like challenge yourself and bring it, yes. Angela Wisniewski (57:10) Yeah, and embrace it and do it. Yeah. You're gonna, I'm not a perfect person. make a lot of mistakes regularly as a mom, as a wife, as a business owner. I've made a ton of mistakes. Some I haven't ever fully recovered from, but like that's part of evolving. I really want women to know how powerful we are. And I know this might sound so corny, but like we are if we banded together. And I'm gonna take this one step further. I wanna say like, I want white women to understand the influence for good that they can have. ⁓ If they really tap into it, recognize certain things. And like you really could be making a lot of changes if you allow yourself to just. sit back, you know, took me a long time to understand that and kind of get over myself. So, you know, like women, you have a voice, have power, you have so much power, like just allow yourself to step into it and also surround yourself with people who encourage that. Not everybody has that. Leslie Youngblood (58:05) Right. Yeah, I agree. Yes, yeah. Right. Right. And there's two people talking to you right now, if you're listening, that needs somebody to surround you with that. have. I would be more than happy to because you need hype women or you need those people in your life. And, know, it's not easy yourself. And you can second guess yourself. And I wrote down grace for mistakes, grace for mistakes, because I think a lot of times, especially with white women, you don't want to come off as a racist or you don't want to come off as. like, here's the thing, you're going to mess up like we're nobody's perfect. And yeah, you know what? You should Angela Wisniewski (58:27) Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (58:49) do that, but also realize you're gonna make mistakes whether you're a business owner, try a person trying to do better in the world, you're not gonna be perfect and we're so afraid of whatever getting canceled or making a mistake or looking bad. It's like you have to give yourself grace for that because that's the only way forward. can't not, we can't let that hold us back anymore. We have to, you know, realize that and it's okay. Angela Wisniewski (59:00) Yep, it's true. Yeah. Yeah, don't be afraid of failure. also, you know, like people are like, you know, and again, another ideology or something or a behavior that's kind of happening online that I feel like translates to real life is people being cringe. my God, they're so cringe. This was so cringe. You see her post. It's so cringe. Like. Everybody's cringe. Everybody's cringe in some way, you know? And if you're building a brand or a business or something, like there's some people that probably never cared who to begin with if they're not gonna support you and that's okay, whether it's from the sidelines or in real life, bye. Let them mute you, let them unfollow you, you know, again, using it as a tool. ⁓ But. Leslie Youngblood (59:49) Mm-hmm. Angela Wisniewski (59:55) you know, sadly, I think there was some study, again, this was just like, listening to NPR, was like my day to day on my drive and talking about ⁓ children, the effects this has on children in real life and them not wanting to be silly and dance and be silly and kind of like. Leslie Youngblood (1:00:04) Yeah. W-G-E-D. Angela Wisniewski (1:00:23) do the things that we for sure did as kids because we weren't worried about somebody taking a video of us and like making fun of us, you know? And that, hearing that, just, you know, gave you a very minimal, there was, I'll try to find the link, but that just like gutted me because it's, in a way it's just like, ⁓ you know, like censorship in a way that we're like quietly doing to one another, you know? Leslie Youngblood (1:00:25) Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, spirit, you're censoring your spirit. Like, would be so especially what your kids. Yes. Angela Wisniewski (1:00:50) Yeah, and that doesn't feel good. Yeah, that doesn't feel good. thinking about all the gifts that people have, children, adults, and like, be cringe. Who cares? Just be cringe, you know? Leslie Youngblood (1:01:02) Yeah, yes, I totally agree. Cringe makes me crazy because I feel like it's another tool to make you embarrassed to be yourself. like, guess what? Like, we're all, I'm sorry, but like cringe doesn't exist. Yeah, it's like, yes. Angela Wisniewski (1:01:10) Yeah. Yeah. You're not gonna please everybody. You're not gonna please everybody. And a lot of the people haven't. I think often the biggest criticism comes from people who've never really took a risk and who haven't. it's sad, right? Like, who haven't taken a risk or followed something that maybe called them. ⁓ Or, you know, and I think when you see that you have to really just... Leslie Youngblood (1:01:25) I'm done. Angela Wisniewski (1:01:42) keep an eye on, know, who you're getting your advice from for one and, you know, who supports you and like what the energy is. Leslie Youngblood (1:01:44) One. Peace. Yes. Have you found a, is there a community in Detroit, whether it's a business community, maybe it's your friends, family, Angela, that's helped keep you, because being a business owner and entrepreneur is so much more mindset than you ever realize. And so I'm curious if there's anything that you, that's helped you along the way to share. Angela Wisniewski (1:02:04) Yeah. ⁓ So I'm fortunate, you know, I'm fortunate to have ⁓ an amazing husband who really is like the opposite of me, ⁓ who really balances me out. He's probably sick of hearing me, but I am really fortunate, you know, to have him in my life, because he is very grounded and even killed and I'm a little like... He calls me a creative. ⁓ So I'd have to say like first and foremost, you know, his partnership as a husband and as a father. ⁓ And that being said, you know, I have an amazing group of friends. You know, I have a great therapist also ⁓ that is great. And she's like extremely progressive and really helps me see, ⁓ just really helps. Leslie Youngblood (1:02:51) Mmm. Angela Wisniewski (1:03:04) guide me on things that sometimes feel a little murky for me, especially raising ⁓ a biracial child. She's biracial too. So there are these things that I've just kind of discovered of myself in the past few years that I have to really kind of shift who I surround myself with and who I let into my world because I absorb that energy. ⁓ So in order to be like the person that I want to be, Leslie Youngblood (1:03:24) Thank Angela Wisniewski (1:03:33) I have to be very mindful of the people that you keep around you and the people that ⁓ you take advice from and guidance from. I'm not saying surround yourself with yes people, but people who are willing to challenge you in good ways ⁓ and who truly, genuinely love and support you and my family. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (1:03:44) Right. Yeah. Angela Wisniewski (1:03:56) You know, a lot of the women in my life and the female friendships I had, a lot of them also have businesses. So they just kind of get it. Or they have some sort of a, you know, a thing that they can relate to. Leslie Youngblood (1:04:05) Mm-hmm. Right, yes. Yeah, so I encourage everybody listening, lean into your village, lean into your community, right? It's more important today, now more than ever, and yeah. Angela Wisniewski (1:04:24) And don't be afraid to recreate that too. If it's not working for you, it's not working for you, know, recreate, you're never too young and never too old, you know, to make a change. Leslie Youngblood (1:04:39) That's fantastic advice. I love that. I feel like that's the perfect place to wrap up with, even though feel like we could keep talking for the rest of the day about all the things. Thank you so much for spending this hour with us. It was an incredible conversation. Before we wrap up, I would love for you to share with our listeners where they can connect with you, where they can find Cooh, all the good stuff. And we'll also drop the links you share in the show notes as well. Angela Wisniewski (1:04:46) I know, I was like, oh! Okay, thank you. So my shop, you can visit me in person at 9301 Kerchival Avenue, Suite 6. That would be the number one place. We're also available online at shopkudeta.com. And then separately, I'm ⁓ on LinkedIn, Angela Wozneski, Kavanaugh, I think, or it's just Angela Wozneski, I'm not sure. ⁓ And also ⁓ Instagram, heyangela. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (1:05:34) Perfect. And again, we'll link all of those as well. Angela, thank you so much for sharing your story with us, for going into retail as Rebellion with us. This was an incredibly inspiring, important conversation. And we are just so grateful and honored to have you join us today. Angela Wisniewski (1:05:50) Thank you, Leslie. This was so nice. Thank you. Appreciate you. Cheers. Leslie Youngblood (1:05:52) Thank you. I appreciate you. Cheers.