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Voddie Baucham - Question and Answer - Part 1 (W Paul Washer) Matthew 28:19 · Voddie Baucham Sermons

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Any questions? Who's going to be the first?
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: This question is for Brother Paul Washer. I agree with
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: everything that you said tonight. But I was wondering, how
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: would you line up 1 Corinthians chapter 5 with what
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: you said? How would you fit that into your theology?
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: What aspect of that chapter?
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Just about how it talks about handing that man over
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: to Satan.
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: One of the things that we have to see is.
• 0:40
  Speaker 4: Well let me put it this way. The way we're
• 0:42
  Speaker 4: doing church today. Leads to and produces in abundance carnal
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: lost church members. First of all our gospel is watered down.
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: Secondly church membership is not taken seriously.
• 0:58
  Speaker 5: Third.
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: Church discipline is not.
• 1:01
  Speaker 4: Practiced in most churches, and so godliness runs rampant. True
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: Christians are not corrected as they should be, and the
• 1:09
  Speaker 4: church is filled with carnal men who are not put out. Now,
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: what happens there in first Corinthians five is not a
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: contradiction in any way. It is a normal process. God
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: keeps and disciplines his children. Sometimes he intervenes directly.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: We see that in in.
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: Him convicting His children by the power of the Holy
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: Spirit of their sin. Him convicting His children through Matthew 18.
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: Brothers coming to another brother and saying that you err.
• 1:39
  Speaker 4: But also God will use discipline, church discipline, in the
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: life of a genuine believer who has gone astray. God
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: uses means in order to keep His people. Just recently,
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: I received a letter from one of my... friends in
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: Zambia who they were rejoicing because a woman who was
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: put out of their fellowship in April, I believe it was,
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: has recently come back weeping and confessed before the whole
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: church her sin and asked for forgiveness.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: And there was a revival literally broke out. So what
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: we need to see is true Christians. Do they sin? Yes.
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: Can they fall into, let's say, what's commonly called carnality?
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  Speaker 3: Yes. Can they backslide? Yes. Can they stay there through
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: the full course of their life? Absolutely not. God is
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: going to discipline them through the many means that I
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: have shared.
• 2:40
  Speaker 6: Go on.
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: Good answer.
• 2:50
  Speaker 7: Okay, this question is for Vody. And I was just
• 2:54
  Speaker 7: wondering if your daughter brought home a man who fit
• 2:57
  Speaker 7: all three of those qualities that you said, but you
• 3:00
  Speaker 7: did not feel at this time he could be a
• 3:02
  Speaker 7: spiritual leader to her, that he was growing towards that,
• 3:06
  Speaker 7: but at this time he was not going to be
• 3:08
  Speaker 7: able to be a spiritual leader to her, what would
• 3:11
  Speaker 7: you say to her?
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: First of all, I'd be very upset that she was
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: the one who brought the man home. But secondly... secondly
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: if a young man I had a conversation about this
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  Speaker 1: earlier of the men who I know who are committed
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: to what I call a biblical model of courtship are
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: the ones who I know who have walked through that
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: process and have actually seen their daughters married off most
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: of them ended up discipling those young men because there
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  Speaker 1: are very few families who are actually producing young men
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: today or young women for that matter Most families are
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  Speaker 1: just not doing it. So boys are not being discipled.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: They're not growing up to be, you know, examples of
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: biblical manhood. They haven't seen examples of biblical manhood. So
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: some of them come with this raw material and they're
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: good guys and there's great potential there. And so my
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  Speaker 1: approach would probably be if he had that there, and
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  Speaker 1: I believe that this was a a good suitor for
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  Speaker 1: my daughter, but not quite ready yet, is that I'd
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  Speaker 1: ask him to submit himself to a period of discipleship.
• 4:33
  Speaker 7: Shade.
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: This is for Vody also.
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  Speaker 8: I teach middle school, and I see daily what you're
• 4:40
  Speaker 8: talking about. And as a woman who's in the school system,
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  Speaker 8: what could be a way I could... approach this in
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  Speaker 8: my classroom um as not only a teacher but as
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  Speaker 8: a christian to approach this because you are right on
• 4:59
  Speaker 8: because i see it daily with my kids and i
• 5:02
  Speaker 8: was just wondering some advice on what i could do
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  Speaker 8: yeah um.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: Boy can you can you become a curriculum writer um
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  Speaker 1: one of the yeah um that that's that's that's one
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  Speaker 1: of the biggest problems is uh the curriculum that exists
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  Speaker 1: You know, another thing is if you can point these
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  Speaker 1: young men to appropriate male role models as frequently as
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  Speaker 1: possible and raise the bar and treat them like young
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  Speaker 1: men and expect them to act like young men. Teach
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  Speaker 1: them things like etiquette. They don't know, you know. They
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  Speaker 1: don't know how to treat young women. Do things like that.
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  Speaker 1: You know, set that tone in that classroom. and expect
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  Speaker 1: them to live up to that and encourage that and
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  Speaker 1: reward that and everything else. This question is for Vody
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: as well.
• 6:01
  Speaker 9: You say you're against Western dating, and I was just
• 6:04
  Speaker 9: wondering when you met your wife, how did you go
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  Speaker 9: along with getting to know her and realizing that she
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  Speaker 9: was the one?
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  Speaker 1: I met her January 21, 1989. I proposed to her
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: six weeks later. And we got married June 30th, 1989.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: So the process took six months. So we didn't have
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: a long relationship like that. Unfortunately, she didn't have a
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  Speaker 1: father in her life. So what we did was we
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: had a.
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  Speaker 3: Family.
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  Speaker 1: There was a friend of mine, actually a teammate of mine,
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  Speaker 1: who had a wonderful Christian family, and we spent as
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  Speaker 1: much time with them as we could during that period
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  Speaker 1: to get as much help as we could. But, you know,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: neither of us had a father in our home. Last
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  Speaker 1: two generations, both sides of our family, 25 marriages, 22 divorces.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: I have 23 first cousins. Only five of them, only
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  Speaker 1: five of my 23 first cousins had a father in
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  Speaker 1: their home. And he... actually died before they were all
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  Speaker 1: um growing out of the house so we didn't have
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  Speaker 1: that luxury so we just we just found what we
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  Speaker 1: could and got help where we could.
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  Speaker 4: Let me say something about that i had a i
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: was teaching on courtship a while back and some guy
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  Speaker 4: goes well did you all did you do all this
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  Speaker 4: stuff when you met your wife and i said and
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  Speaker 4: if i didn't does it make it not true That
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  Speaker 4: was one point. But the other point was something you've
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: got to understand. 15, 16 years ago when I met
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  Speaker 4: my wife, no one even heard of the things we're
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: talking about now. You have to realize that the church
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: has struggled through almost a century and a half of liberalism.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: And it has so affected the church.
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: When I first discovered some of the things that Brother
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  Speaker 4: Vody has put forth here tonight, I literally was devastated.
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  Speaker 4: It was like a man waking up, realizing that everything,
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  Speaker 4: even though I had been preaching for a few years,
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  Speaker 4: everything in my life was wrong.
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  Speaker 3: And what I want you.
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  Speaker 4: Guys to see, especially you guys, because really the wife
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  Speaker 4: is going to go in the path that the man
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  Speaker 4: leads her.
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  Speaker 3: And I want you to know something.
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  Speaker 4: Some of you are probably taking notes thinking I need
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: to tweak a few things in my life.
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  Speaker 3: No.
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  Speaker 4: You need to absolutely destroy from A to Z everything
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  Speaker 4: you have ever learned about anything and start all over again.
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  Speaker 4: The tabla rasa of the famous philosopher. A blank slate.
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  Speaker 4: That's how radical it is.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 9:04
  Speaker 10: This question is for Brother Washer. I was just wondering
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  Speaker 10: how we see God's love for us through him doing
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  Speaker 10: everything for his own glory.
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: OK, this is a very important question. There's a great
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  Speaker 4: emphasis today because of Dr. Piper and others, although it's
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  Speaker 4: been since since the beginning of time that God does everything.
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  Speaker 3: That he does for his own glory. We have a
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  Speaker 3: real problem with that. It's amazing.
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  Speaker 4: We don't have problems with contemporary Christian music that says
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  Speaker 4: God does everything for us. But we do have problems
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: with God doing everything for himself. And we wonder, how
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  Speaker 4: does that represent a loving God?
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  Speaker 3: Well, first of all, we.
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  Speaker 4: Need to look at reality before we get emotional. First
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  Speaker 4: of all, God is really God. And God is the
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  Speaker 4: most worthy being of all, above the creation he's created. Now, Edwards,
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  Speaker 4: Jonathan Edwards, And most of the Puritan writers say this.
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  Speaker 3: Even men. Who act.
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  Speaker 4: Must act with a motive. If they do not act
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  Speaker 4: with a motive. They are considered unreasonable.
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  Speaker 3: Or insane men. And so God must have a motive
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  Speaker 3: for what he does.
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  Speaker 1: As.
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  Speaker 4: Needing to have a motive or that he should have
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  Speaker 4: a motive, he should choose.
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  Speaker 3: The highest motive. The the highest motive is God.
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  Speaker 4: That's the reality, he is God, he is the most worthy,
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  Speaker 4: if he's going to do anything for anyone, it should
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  Speaker 4: be for himself, he is his own highest motive. But now,
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  Speaker 4: how does God doing everything for himself demonstrate love to
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  Speaker 4: his creation?
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  Speaker 3: Well, let me let me say it this way.
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  Speaker 4: The if I were to stand outside and when you
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  Speaker 4: were going out the door, hand you a stick of
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  Speaker 4: Wrigley Spearmint gum and you held it to your, you know,
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  Speaker 4: your your chest.
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  Speaker 3: And said, oh, my, I can't believe it. This is
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  Speaker 3: absolutely wonderful.
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  Speaker 4: And you run and you tell everybody in the university,
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  Speaker 4: you call the media, alert the newspaper. And then 30
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  Speaker 4: years later, you have a picture of me over the
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  Speaker 4: mantle in your fireplace. And when your grandchildren say, what's
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  Speaker 4: the picture?
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  Speaker 3: That's Brother Paul. 30 years ago, he gave me a
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  Speaker 3: piece of.
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  Speaker 4: Wrigley Spearmint gum. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
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  Speaker 4: You need some serious counseling.
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  Speaker 1: All right?
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  Speaker 4: But if you're dying, if you're dying and in the hospital,
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  Speaker 4: and you need a heart transplant and there is none,
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  Speaker 4: and I come and I give my life away to you,
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  Speaker 4: then when you rise up off that table, it does
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  Speaker 4: make sense for you to weep with joy over me.
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  Speaker 4: It does make sense for you to alert the media,
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  Speaker 4: and it may even make sense for 30 years later,
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  Speaker 4: you tell your grandchildren the only reason you're here is
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  Speaker 4: because there was a man named Paul Washer. And so
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  Speaker 4: the size of the gift or the quality of the
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  Speaker 4: gift oftentimes does demonstrate the measure of love. Now, if
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  Speaker 4: God wanted to demonstrate the greatest gift possible to His creation,
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: if He wanted to demonstrate the greatest love possible, He
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  Speaker 4: would give them the greatest gift. The greatest gift God
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  Speaker 4: could ever give to His creation is for Him to
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  Speaker 4: take center stage and do everything so that the fullness
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  Speaker 4: of His glory might be revealed to them. To the
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  Speaker 4: same degree, the greatest act of judgment God could ever
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  Speaker 4: pour out on a people would be to hide Himself.
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  Speaker 4: You see, one of the things that we've got to
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  Speaker 4: realize is that everything that we're shooting for, it's not heaven.
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  Speaker 4: It's not streets of gold.
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  Speaker 3: It's God. Everything, everything created is finite.
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  Speaker 1: All right.
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  Speaker 3: Finite gets boring. It's finite. It comes to an end.
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  Speaker 4: You can put your arms around it sooner or later
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  Speaker 4: or mark it off with chalk and eventually make your
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  Speaker 4: self around, make your way around the.
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  Speaker 3: Full circumference of its existence.
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: But the reason why heaven is an eternal thing and
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: yet every if we could say such a thing, day
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: of glory is that much greater. is because you're going
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: to be tracking down the infinite goodness, beauty, and glory
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: of God. And every day will be a greater delight
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: because you'll know more of Him. So by God taking
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  Speaker 4: center stage and doing everything He does so that the
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: fullness of His glory is revealed to you, that's the
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: greatest gift He can give you.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: Yes, this is a question for Voti.
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  Speaker 2: What if while you're in college, you meet the woman
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: that God intends for you, but you feel that you
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: need that education in order to be able to provide
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: for her and your family?
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: How much education do you need to go mow lawns
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: so you can put food on the table or to
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: go work at a fast food restaurant so you can
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: put food on the table? You suck it up and
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: do whatever you have to do to provide for her.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: We have a misconception that that marriage is only for
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: the upper class, you know, that marriage is only for
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: people with a 401K and two cars in the garage.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: That's not what marriage is about. That's not what providing
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: is about. A man who provides for his family is
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: a man who will do whatever it takes to provide
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: for his family. That's almost classism, you know. Marriage is
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: for people who have a certain status and a certain
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: class of provision. No, no, it's not. It's not. It's
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: for people who are committed, absolutely committed to this biblical
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: multi-generational vision and rejoice at the gift that God gives
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: them and does whatever they have to do in order
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: to bring about that provision. So just be careful not
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: to put these Americanized, you know, because if we carry
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: that to its logical conclusion, then we say, you know,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: the person in the third world country, who doesn't make
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: a lot of money, well, they've actually messed up because
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: they should have actually instead gone ahead and left the
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: country and got a degree. You see, that's not what
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: marriage is about. That's not what marriage is about. This
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: question is for both of you. How should a young
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: man go about seeking a wife? Go, brother. Come on.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Come on. You know, there's an interesting phrase. There's an
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: interesting phrase, okay? And a lot of the phrases that
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: we have in our culture, we don't even recognize, you know,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: that they have an origin. But the idea of winning
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: a woman's hand in marriage. You all heard that phrase?
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: From whom does one win a woman's hand in marriage?
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: From the woman? No. From her father. That's why in
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: the wedding ceremony, again, a lot of the stuff we
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: think just comes out of nowhere. The father walks the
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: bride down the aisle and she does what? Puts her
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: hand into the hand of the man who's going to
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: marry her. He has won her hand in marriage. So
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  Speaker 1: the way you do that is you know, first of all,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: you have to work on you meeting the biblical qualifications.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: You understand that When a man finds a wife, he
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: finds a good thing. It's a gift from the Lord.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: You want God to bestow this on you and you
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: want to do everything that you can to be ready
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: and worthy of that when it happens. So that's the
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: first thing that you do if you're going to seek
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  Speaker 1: that is you meet those qualifications yourself. The second thing
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  Speaker 1: that you need to do is you need to understand
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: if a wife is a suitable helper, then you have
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  Speaker 1: to understand who it is that God's called you to
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  Speaker 1: be so that you know what it takes for you
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: to be completed.
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  Speaker 4: Okay?
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: And then thirdly, You open your eyes because God's going
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: to build you one. Just like he did for Adam.
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  Speaker 1: He built him one. Adam didn't go and God built
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: him one. And he had to just be aware and
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: be alert so that he could see what God had
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: built for him. And so you look and you be
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: aware and be alert. But again, if you have those
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: first two things in place, you know what you're looking for.
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  Speaker 1: If you don't, it's just random and you're in trouble.
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: There's a few things I think that are very important
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: to point out. You know, when....
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: When a young man or a young girl at a
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: certain age starts to recognize that there are people of
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: the opposite sex out there and they're awakened to that,
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: now that gets earlier, supposedly every generation.
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: And that's not right.
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: I mean, my job right now is to protect my
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: boys that the only thing they're thinking about is fighting
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: dragons and building forts.
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: But there will come a time, really. except my six-year-old.
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: We really pray for him because the other day at church,
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: because I talked to him about preparing to be a
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: man and the other day at church, he said, Dad,
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: you know how you told me that one day I
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: was going to meet a woman and I need to prepare?
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: I said, yeah.
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: He goes, I met her.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: I go, really?
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: He goes, yeah. And I said, well, you need to
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: get a little older. And he said, well, how old?
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: And I said, well, you know, I'm speechless at this point.
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: So I'm like, I'm like, well, you need to drive
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: a car. He said, oh, really?
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: So he He goes back, he comes back about five
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: minutes later and he goes, Dad, you know, those little
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: cars at Walmart.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: That they sell? I said, yeah, he goes, could we
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: buy one of those so I could practice?
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: But when when love is awakened or when when this
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: maturity is awakened and you start recognizing the opposite sex,
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: I believe that's from God when guarded in the in
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: the proper context. Now, here's here's the foolishness of our culture.
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: They think when that comes alive, that that's the that's
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: the green button to start doing that, and that's why
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: you have these little girls and boys when they're 10
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: and 11 and 13, 14 and 15 that are dating.
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: That's pathetic. What that is, when that goes off in
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: that little boy's heart that, hey, girls don't have cooties.
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: Then you say, son.
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: That is not God's call for you to participate, that's
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: God's call for you to now to prepare. You're going
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: to spend the next several years of your life no
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: longer walking with boys your own age, you're going to
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: spend the next several years of your life walking with men.
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: And preparing, you see, you've been told about adolescence, adolescence
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: is very convenient.
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: You see, nowadays, no one ever wants to be called
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: a boy.
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: Adolescence gives you the opportunity to be a boy and
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: yet participate in.
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: Man things that you never prepared for. My little boy, my.
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: Goal is that when he's 16, 17. He could do
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: more than most of you. And definitely more than his
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: father at that age. That he would be a man.
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: Another thing very important about preparation. I really want to
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: encourage you young guys. A companion of fools is what
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: most of you are. And you were companions of fools
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: in your youth group. Youth groups are totally unbiblical the
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: way they're done. Now you understand why I preach in
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: a lot of churches once. But they're unbiblical because they
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: do exactly what Scripture says not to do. They put
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: a bunch of young fools together. Young men are not
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: supposed to walk with young men. Young men are supposed
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: to walk with old men. To learn what it's like
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: to be a man, if you do it the other way,
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: you never grow up. And so we can't just say
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: we're going to do a few things to try to
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: start us off. We got to revamp our entire system
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: of doing things.
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: I mean, really.
• 21:11
  Speaker 11: Paul, you kind of alluded to this just a little
• 21:13
  Speaker 11: bit over here, but I'd love to hear from you
• 21:16
  Speaker 11: and Bodie on this. But my question is, I'm married,
• 21:20
  Speaker 11: got married at 27, but a lot of the guys
• 21:23
  Speaker 11: I'm helping, I work with the college ministry and I help.
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: Guys out and they're thinking about marriage.
• 21:28
  Speaker 11: And I've heard, Paul, I think you shared this before
• 21:30
  Speaker 11: and Brother Ricky here at Hardin, I really believe this,
• 21:34
  Speaker 11: that the 16 of your day, or the 13 or
• 21:38
  Speaker 11: 14 of your day, Paul, you, or maybe your grandparents
• 21:40
  Speaker 11: or our grandparents, is like the 22 of our day,
• 21:43
  Speaker 11: our culture, because we've been affected so much in terms
• 21:47
  Speaker 11: of maturity and preparedness and things like that. And so
• 21:50
  Speaker 11: in some senses, some of these guys are going to
• 21:52
  Speaker 11: be prepared. But a lot of the guys on our campus,
• 21:55
  Speaker 11: and even me at that age, I don't feel like
• 21:57
  Speaker 11: I was. So you hit on when God awakens it,
• 22:01
  Speaker 11: obviously he's in control of that.
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: But how should that affect these guys in this.
• 22:05
  Speaker 11: Room that are in their 18 19 20 that maybe
• 22:08
  Speaker 11: aren't there in their maturity you know maybe they're moving
• 22:11
  Speaker 11: towards what you're sharing tonight bodie how would you guys
• 22:14
  Speaker 11: hit on that in terms of the timing of preparedness.
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: Well i can tell you what happened to me but
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: i was married when it happened i i came across
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: a family of of homeschoolers i'm southern i was southern
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: baptist all my life and uh and Southern Baptists, for
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: the most part, think they're the biggest thing going, and
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: they don't realize they're nothing more.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: Than a spiritual ghetto.
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: But outside of the Southern Baptist Convention, I started meeting families, homeschoolers,
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: and stuff like that. Let me give you an example.
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: I went to this family, a family of ten children.
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: The youngest one was probably four. And after the meal,
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: which I literally couldn't eat just watching the four-year-old act
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: like a man, Afterwards, they set chairs out and there
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: was all these questions that the children had already prepared
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: to ask.
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: And this four year old is.
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: Asking me questions that I couldn't have asked when I
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: was probably 18.
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: And I started to realize and hold on.
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: Somebody somewhere has lowered the bar so tremendously that we're
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: acting like a bunch of primates. But there are some
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: people out there who they're like from Mars or something.
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: It is a completely different world. Now, a lot of people.
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: Will look at those type of people and just.
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: Scoff at them.
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: Like they're some bumpkins from, you know, a century past.
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: When that little boy is using Latin phrases. And talking
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: about the glory of God though. You maybe need to
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: just shut your mouth and listen for a while. And
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: I started realizing first of all.
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: I'm wrong.
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: I'm a man of unclean lips. And I dwell among
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: a people of unclean lips. And there are other people
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: out there. Outside of my world though. that have such
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: a Christian family that I can't even call anything I
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: do Christian compared to them. And so I went and
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: I started learning.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: I found men.
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: I mean, because here's the thing, guys, let's face it.
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: Most of you try to go look for a mentor.
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: You're not going to find anybody. So I went on
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: I went on the Internet. And I don't agree with
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: everything in every place I read, but I went to
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: places like Vision Forum.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: And I just started learning.
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: Not from theorists, but men who had 10 children who
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: just walk with God.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: So that's what I would encourage you to do. I
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: would encourage you.
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: To get in these places like vision form and other
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: things and just learn about manhood. And if you had
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: to take a year, if you had to drop out
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: of college for a year just to do nothing but
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: work enough to feed yourself and then dedicate 10 hours
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: a day to discovering what it means to be a man.
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: You do the world a favor. And yourself.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: See, that was the other thing that I was going
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: to say. That question, I think, illustrates part of our problem.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: When it comes to marriage, we go, well, you know,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: we got these young men and they're not mature enough
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: for marriage. Well, they're also not mature enough for college,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: but we send them to that.
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: Why?
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: Because we worship the God of education and not the
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: God of the Bible. We get our young men ready
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: for what we value. And I'm sorry, but I refuse
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: to believe that if the Marines can take a sullen, snot-nosed,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: 18-year-old kid and turn him into a hill-charging, order-obeying, adapting, improvising,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: and overcoming United States Marine in 13 weeks without this,
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: then I don't need all that long to get a
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: guy up to speed.
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: This question is for Vody.
• 26:15
  Speaker 10: What would you say to college students that have a
• 26:17
  Speaker 10: godly view of marriage and don't see it as they
• 26:20
  Speaker 10: should put education and that kind of thing before marriage,
• 26:23
  Speaker 10: but yet their parents have a more worldly view of
• 26:25
  Speaker 10: marriage and do feel as if they should wait until
• 26:28
  Speaker 10: a certain.
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: Time to do those things?
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: Honor. your father and your mother.
• 26:33
  Speaker 10: That's what I was going to ask about. Like what
• 26:34
  Speaker 10: you think the balance is between.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: That honor, your father and your mother. Thank you. Um,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: this question is for Bodie.
• 26:57
  Speaker 6: Um, Do you think it's okay to be hesitant toward
• 26:59
  Speaker 6: a marriage that is not centered around God or how
• 27:00
  Speaker 6: would you attack that situation?
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Okay. Go back. Come again. To be headed.
• 27:14
  Speaker 11: Say again.
• 27:15
  Speaker 6: I said, do you feel it's okay to be hesitant
• 27:18
  Speaker 6: toward a marriage or engagement that is not centered around God?
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: And it's not centered around God. You asked me earlier.
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Okay. Um, The idea of people who are, they don't
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: have this thing centered around God, but they're headed in
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: that direction. The easy answer to that is no. I mean,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: that's not okay for anything in our life. Everything in
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: our life. God is the center of everything that we are.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: And so that's the starting point. It's the foundation for
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: everything that we are and everything that we do. And
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: when we have people in that situation, I think we
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: owe it to them, especially if they're close to us.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: we owe it to them to as lovingly, gently, but
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: honestly as possible to communicate them the peril of what
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: they're about to experience. When marriages dissolve, it's devastating. It's
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: devastating to the individuals. It's devastating to their children. It's
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: devastating to the society. It's absolutely devastating. And so I
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: think We need to look at that devastation and stop
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: closing our mouths and closing our eyes and begin to
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: speak the truth and love into people's lives when that
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: begins to happen. Because they're I mean, literally, there are
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: few things in this world more devastating than people who
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: flippantly get into marriage relationships and have those dissolve. So, no, no,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: that's not OK. Back here, guys. This is for both
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: of you.
• 28:54
  Speaker 5: I have a group of college students over at Murray
• 28:57
  Speaker 5: State that I work with and disciple.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: And I was struck the other day. I asked him
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: a question.
• 29:03
  Speaker 5: How many of you guys throughout your life have ever
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: read a book from cover to cover.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: On your own volition?
• 29:12
  Speaker 5: In other words, it wasn't assigned to you or you
• 29:14
  Speaker 5: had to do it. You just picked it up to
• 29:16
  Speaker 5: read it. And not one guy in the group had
• 29:18
  Speaker 5: done that. And I would just love to get y'all's
• 29:21
  Speaker 5: take on, and you mentioned education earlier about when you
• 29:24
  Speaker 5: go into class, is it just the minimal get by
• 29:27
  Speaker 5: or is it? But how important in pursuing God, becoming
• 29:32
  Speaker 5: ready for marriage, learning to evangelize and be a worker
• 29:36
  Speaker 5: in the kingdom, how important is reading? Because this generation,
• 29:40
  Speaker 5: I know there's exceptions, but it seems like there's less
• 29:43
  Speaker 5: and less reading that people are doing, picking up.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Books to read. Yeah, and our senses are dulled because
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: of it. There's a huge difference between a reading culture
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: and a TV-watching culture, for example. And we live in
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: a TV-watching culture, and our senses have been dulled. And
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: we don't think as well. We don't think as clearly.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: I think it's incredibly important. You know, I have reading
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: goals myself. And it's interesting. My reading goal for a
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: while has been at least read at least a book
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: a week. You know, that's been my reading goal. And sometimes,
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: you know, there are things that are it's going to
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: take me longer to wade through some of the big
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: stuff like that. But what I noticed, and I just
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: realized this a couple of weeks ago, my two older children,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: the 17-year-old and the 14-year-old, They read at least a
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: book a week. My daughter, two. Two books a week.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Just because they saw that pattern of doing that, you know?
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: And this is beyond the schoolwork that they do and
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: all this other stuff. But they also don't watch television.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: You know, they're allowed four hours a week that is
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: carefully chosen if they so choose. Most weeks on the weekend,
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: they don't even choose... to do that, you know, and
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: watch certain videos and stuff like that that we would
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: even allow. They'd rather be in books. And because of that,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: one of the things, and again, as a homeschool dad,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: this is something that I've learned, and I'm sure Paul
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: has had this experience as well. One of the things
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: that all homeschool parents learn very early on is we
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: weren't well-educated. I was not well-educated. My 17-year-old daughter is
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: much better educated today than I was when I got
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: out of college. Hands down, no questions asked, it's not close.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: And part of it is, I wasn't a reader. It
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: wasn't until after seminary days that I became just a
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: voracious reader. And I've seen the difference that it's made
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: in my life from a person who could go to
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: school and make good grades and Dean's List and all
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: this other stuff, who was absolutely not an educated person.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: Just had a good memory, you know, whatever. Whatever. But
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: huge difference between that guy that everybody said was smart
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: and the guy who learned how to be a reader
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: later on.
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: My son is in a curriculum right now from Veritas Press.
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: And he just turned six. And he was reading last
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: week about Cotton Mather preaching the word of God to
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: the buccaneers in the new world. I wouldn't even have
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: known what any of that was all about when I
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: was 14.
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: So again, there's a whole world out there.
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: The thing you really need to understand, there are people
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: really doing this stuff. And it's changing their lives. Let
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: me give you an example. Bodhi was there this year.
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: Last year I was there. I've been there for the
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: last two years. There's a big conference in Zambia, in Lusaka, Zambia,
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: in Africa. You know those backward... Natives running around leopard
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: skins in Africa.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: You go there.
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: And the reason I say that is because my first
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: time there was a conference of about 800 Africans. I
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: hear these young people, about 12 of them sitting around
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: a table.
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: They're in an argument so passionate that I'm thinking to myself,
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: I got to go there and see what.
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: They're arguing about. Who's the best soccer team? You know
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: what's going on? You know what they were arguing? Now,
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: these were teenagers.
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: They were arguing one against the other regarding superlapsarianism versus
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: infralapsarianism in the decrees of God based on the writings
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: of Jonathan Edwards. So much for the backward Africans. All right,
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: let me give you another example. Several years ago, and
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: I studied at the university, I took logic, philosophy, many
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: other things. A friend of mine from British Columbia sent
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: me a book called Logic by Isaac Watts. And I
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: picked it up, you know, I know logic. Picked it up,
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: I read through the first chapter and I went, whoa.
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: So I read it again. Went through the first chapter
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: the third time, I said, OK, I see where he's
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: coming from.
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: This is more this.
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: Is more stuff than I've ever had masters level. I
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: closed the cover and on the fly of the book.
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: Was a picture.
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: Of a schoolmaster. And he was drilling. It looked like
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: second graders.
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: And I did a little research on the book, the
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: book was written for grade school children in the colonial period. So, yes,
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: we've really lost something, and one of the things that
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: you have to see is this. We've almost been trained
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: like a bunch of rats. I want you to think
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: about something for a moment.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: How many of you can appreciate a drink of water?
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: Most of you don't.
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: Because you've had all your life Coca-Cola's and Kool-Aid's. So
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: you've had so much artificial stuff, you can't appreciate reality.
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: What God has given.
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: Now, a friend of mine who's big into video and.
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: Does a lot of stuff with preaching, you know, culture.
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: He showed me the 40 second trailer on the latest
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: Spider-Man movie.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: He said, now I want you to see something. It
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: was so fast, so exciting, so.
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: Bombarding of my senses that I realized a child trained
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: on that could never walk through the woods and appreciate
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: God's creation. We are filled up with the fantasy to
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: such a degree our senses are bombarding that we can
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: no longer appreciate reality. Same thing happens in sexual desires.
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: Men become more and more lustful and can no longer
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: appreciate the simple touch of a woman's hand on theirs.
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: We're just becoming brutes. And I think that we must read.
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: We must.
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: But for me, the most important thing is to read old,
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: old books so that I can.
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: Get outside of my culture.
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: The greatest things that have ever happened to me was one,
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: when I started traveling abroad.
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: Two, when I began reading old books.
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: And three, especially again, when I met some of the
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: people I've met in my life that were so far
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: beyond anything I dreamed in Christianity that I realized I
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: didn't even know what I was doing. And it shocked
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: me out of my little world. And that's what reading does.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: And we saw that. It's interesting because those two things
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: came together for my son and I. My son, my
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: 14-year-old son and I went this year to the same place.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: And again, some of the same things about what these
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: people are reading and learning and being taught, what these
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: pastors are preaching that people over here in this part
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: of the world look down on because they're over in
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: backwards Africa. And most missionaries from this country wouldn't even
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: qualify to be church planters with this group of people
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: that we're talking about that we go and minister with.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: And I watched. the impact on, you know, my son
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: at 14 years old visiting his 11th country and then
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: having on top of it this experience of seeing the
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: way these people live as opposed to the culture that
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: he's been so exposed to. And you just can't put
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: a price on it.
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: Guys, I'm talking, you know, kind of, we've been kind
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: of talking in your face. But here's something I want
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: you to realize. For my children... I'm never going to
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: be everything I could have been if I had been
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: raised according to Scripture. But I'm going to climb halfway
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: up that mountain at least with my children on my back.
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: And when they take off to run their race, then
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: maybe make it to the top. I want you young
• 37:59
  Speaker 4: men to think of yourselves. You know, you always hear
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: this thing. You need to think of yourself.
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: As a world changer.
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: Most people should not think of themselves as a world
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: changer because what they would change the world into would.
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: Be really bad. That's like Conrad Mbewe.
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: He's probably one of the greatest preachers alive today. He's
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: from Lusaka, Zambia, and he's called the African Spurgeon. He's
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: almost like, Paul, the greatest thing you could do for
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: the church here in Africa is don't let any Americans
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: come here.
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: But I'm telling you guys, if you will invest your lives.
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: Into I'm going to discover what it's to be a man,
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: a man before God in the image of Christ, and
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: then I'm.
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: Going to take that and change the world.
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: One other thing, and then I'll be quiet for the
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: discipleship guys here.
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: Listen to this.
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: Someone gets converted and you know what your main priority is.
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: You want to teach them how to witness and disciple
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: someone else.
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: It's all superficial and artificial. You got to.
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: Begin at the beginning. You teach them to be a man.
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: All we're doing is teaching. We're teaching them to take
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: four spiritual laws and then a few books.
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: On discipleship and replicate it into the lives of others.
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: That's not it.
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: You get some guys around you, teach them to be men,
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: teach them to be husbands, teach them to be fathers.
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: That's what you.
• 39:27
  Speaker 4: Want to do, because that's what they're going to be.
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: My greatest goal in my life. If someone asks me
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: on an airplane. Like I shared last night. If someone says.
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: What do you do for a living?
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: I go.
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: If they say. What do you do?
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: I go.
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: I'm a husband. They look at me like. What else
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: do you do? I'm a father.
• 39:47
  Speaker 7: Well.
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: But what else do you do? I do whatever I
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: can to keep those other two things going.
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: That's what I do. That's who I am.
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: And so that you know this. Notice I said husband
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: before I said father. Because the kindest thing I can
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: do to my three little children. My two boys and
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: my little girl. Who was recently born and is the
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: most beautiful girl in the world. The greatest thing I
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: can do for them is to love their mother. Because
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: if they see me loving their mother, they're going to
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: be the most secure children in the world because they're
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: going to say dad's not going anywhere.
• 40:33
  Speaker 9: For both of you, I'd love to hear your thoughts
• 40:34
  Speaker 9: on this real quick. Just many of the students here
• 40:36
  Speaker 9: engaged in just sharing the gospel evangelism with people in
• 40:39
  Speaker 9: their dorm, athletic team, fraternity, sorority. And probably the majority
• 40:43
  Speaker 9: of the people that they're having conversations with would claim, oh,
• 40:46
  Speaker 9: I'm a Christian, you know, I did that thing, you know, Paul,
• 40:48
  Speaker 9: like you were saying earlier. But just coming off of
• 40:51
  Speaker 9: your talk in 1 John and Bodie, I'd love to
• 40:53
  Speaker 9: hear your thoughts. Maybe a personal example of when you've
• 40:57
  Speaker 9: had a friend or someone close to you that claims
• 40:59
  Speaker 9: to be a Christian, but when you examine their life,
• 41:03
  Speaker 9: you're pretty convinced that they're lost. What does a conversation
• 41:06
  Speaker 9: like that look like? How do you approach that conversation?
• 41:10
  Speaker 9: Maybe just an example would maybe help some of these
• 41:11
  Speaker 9: students maybe in some personal evangelism as time goes on.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: So I'd love to hear your thoughts. You know, when
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: I was converted, that was the big.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: I grew up in the projects, in drug-infested, gang-infested, South
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: Central Los Angeles, California. I was raised by a single
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: teenage Buddhist mother. I never heard the gospel until I
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: got to college. Buddhism was the only spirituality that I knew.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: And so I was converted my freshman year in college
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: from that background and perspective and began to share the
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: gospel the best I could with everybody that I knew,
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: especially the people in my family. And I was amazed
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: at how many people in my family said the same thing.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: It just boggled my mind. My grandmother. My grandmother had
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: seven kids from five different men. Swore up and down.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: She was a Christian. My paternal grandmother and grandfather. That
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: was my mother's mother. That one I just talked about.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: My paternal grandmother and grandfather, my father's mother and father,
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: they had three children between them, lived next door to
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: each other, were never married a day in their life.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: Swore up and down. They knew the good Lord, you know.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: So I have to admit, early on, I didn't do
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: real well with that. I just, I didn't do real
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: well with that, you know, because I was disgusted. I
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: was absolutely disgusted. And people ask me all the time, well,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: how did your mother, a young black woman in South
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: Central L.A., the Buddhism thing, how did that? Here's what happened.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: My mother was raised in that family with those people
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: who claimed to know Christ and took her to church,
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: was molested by a member of our family who was
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: a deacon in the church. And this Buddhist community that
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: she ran into in L.A. as a young woman, was
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: the first group of people that she ever met who
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: actually lived like they said they believed. That's why my
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: mother was Buddhist. That's why. That's why she left Christianity.
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: Okay?
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: Because of that. But what's interesting is, my mother is
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: now a born-again, blood-washed, Jesus-loving and following Christian. Because she
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: saw something happen to her baby boy that was unlike
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: the counterfeit that she had seen before. I realized when
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: that happened, that me kind of pounding on people wasn't
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: nearly as effective, especially with people who were that close,
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: as me following up the change that God was bringing
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: about in my life and talking from a biblical perspective
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: about why that was happening and what it was. So
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: it was really, in essence, not talking about the gospel
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: as You know, here's some propositions that you need to
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: believe because they've heard all those propositions that they need
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: to believe. But talking about the gospel from the perspective
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: of like we heard today from Paul. No, no, no.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: Talk about the sanctification that is going on, the new
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: creature that I am in Christ, this evidence of the
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: work of God in my life. And what I talk
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: about that aspect of Christianity, because that's what they don't know.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: That's what they don't get. What people get is here's
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: some propositions. You know, if you believe this and you
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: believe this and you want this rather than that, you
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: say this. Go to the magic part of the room,
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: say the magic words and you're in. Not only are
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: you in, but somebody will guarantee you they'll sign your Bible,
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: you know. But when you start talking to people about
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: real sanctification and you present the gospel in a holistic
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: form and from a holistic perspective, they cannot then go
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: back and say, oh, yeah, I got that. Because you're
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: also talking about the sanctifying work that is taking place,
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: the salvation that is happening in you, the evidence that
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: is being born in you. So I think one of
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: the biggest mistakes that we make is people have a
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: misunderstanding about justification and sanctification and glorification. And what we
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: do instead of explaining to them the gospel in that
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: wider spectrum, like we heard tonight, we try to argue
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: with them about what their minds have already been polluted
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: towards in this false idea of what justification is.