Latest / Life Lived Better / Episode 140: Codependency versus Counterdependency

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Episode 140: Codependency versus Counterdependency · Life Lived Better

0:03
Hi, this is Paula. And I'm Joseph and you're
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listening to Life Lived Better. Welcome back everyone to the
0:13
Life the Better podcast, your journey of self discovery,
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well-being and personal growth. We are here to bring you a new
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episode every other Thursday and we are so happy to be sharing
0:22
another one with you today. Your support means the world to
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us and we would love it if you would like and share and repost
0:31
and all the things. So let's start with our check
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insurance. Paula, how are you doing?
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I'm doing well. I have just been spending a lot
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of time on campus with work, and we had a fall preview yesterday
0:46
where new folks in high school came up to the university and
0:49
checked it out. And so it was, that was
0:52
exciting. It's always great to see new
0:55
people on the campus. And it was also really neat
0:58
because as I came home, the weather started dropping and
1:01
we've got like real hall temperatures here in North Texas
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today. I know, I heard, I heard it's
1:07
supposed to possibly get down to freezing tonight.
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And then it'll be up to 80 next Friday.
1:12
But you know Texas. Lots of lots of people getting
1:16
sick. Yeah, I'm just.
1:18
Getting over being sick. So if I cough my way through
1:21
this, I'm going to hover over the mute button today.
1:23
So hopefully I burst out in coughing fit, but I'm doing a
1:28
worry I'm just getting over being sick.
1:30
On the downhill side of it. Thankfully it's been kind of
1:33
lingering for a week, but other than that things are good.
1:37
We are knee deep in Christmas decorations.
1:41
We got all of our Halloween stuff put away and we're now
1:46
working on the inside Christmas stuff, which is a chore, and
1:49
then we have to tackle the outside Christmas stuff, which
1:52
is also a chore. And so I love it when it's all
1:56
done. But man, it's so much work
1:58
getting it all out and the house is a disaster.
2:01
There's bins everywhere and just it's, it's a lot.
2:05
And your neighborhood awaits because you kind of are the
2:07
house on the block. Oh, I know, I know.
2:10
It's it's fun. They love to come and take
2:12
pictures and I think we added a couple.
2:15
I think we got 312 foot inflatables at the end of the
2:19
season last year, so I think we got a grant, a snowman and a
2:23
Santa so. Putting things on the roof.
2:26
Probably, probably. I would love to put stuff on the
2:29
roof. I just don't know how you would
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secure it. That's an.
2:32
Idea I want like a I've seen like the Santa with the reindeer
2:36
inflatable. Well, there's gotta be a way. 9
2:38
foot long. I feel like that just needs to
2:40
go on the roof. Next time I drive up.
2:45
But yeah, it's been good, things are going well.
2:46
Everything's been, you know, just busy as usual.
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And grateful to have some time with you today to record this
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episode. Looking forward to it.
2:56
Me too. So what is on our topic for
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today? Well, you know, we like to
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explore the patterns that shape our relationships, our work and
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our sense of self here on the Life Live Better podcast.
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So today we're talking about two relationship dynamics that might
3:11
sound like complete opposites, but they actually come from from
3:15
the very same place and that's codependency and counter
3:19
dependency. Interesting, So you might be
3:22
familiar with codependency. That is like the need to be
3:26
needed, the need to care. Take a need to keep the peace at
3:31
any cost, even if it means losing a piece of yourself along
3:35
the way. Are you talking to me
3:37
personally? Yeah, some of these definitely
3:41
hit home as we go through these. So I've I've definitely
3:45
experienced periods of codependency and probably still
3:48
am codependent in several areas. But to sum it up, codependency
3:51
is about putting someone else's wants, moods, and approval at
3:55
the center of your life, hoping that if they're OK, we will
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finally be OK too. So we really just kind of go out
4:03
of our way to put everyone else's needs above our own and
4:07
sacrifice our own needs or others.
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Society put some roles like that's a good thing to do, you
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know? Right, right.
4:18
And and then on the other end of the spectrum is counter
4:22
dependency. And to be honest, I had not
4:24
heard a lot about this when we started looking into it.
4:27
But counter dependency is the fierce drive to not rely on
4:32
anyone. It's like emotional independence
4:35
turned up maximum volume. And people that take on this
4:39
pattern really avoid vulnerability.
4:43
They want to push others away. And they kind of have this
4:45
belief, like if I let somebody in, I'll lose control or even
4:49
worse, I'll lose myself. It's interesting, I have a real
4:52
hard time letting people help me with things.
4:55
I don't know if that would. I don't definitely don't meet
4:57
all of those those qualifiers, but I have a problem being
5:01
vulnerable and asking for help for sure.
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I wonder if there's some? Kind of a, a middle like a
5:07
person that kind of goes in between because I do too, like I
5:10
think about just bringing grocery in or something.
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I like. No, no, no, I got it, I've got
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it. Don't worry, you know, don't
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need to ask you to open the door for me or anything.
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Well, what's kind of fascinating is that both patterns are really
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rooted in fear and unmet like attachment needs.
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So one cleans the other distances, one says don't leave
5:32
me and the other says don't come too close.
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And yet both are craving the same thing, which is safety,
5:38
stability, and ultimately connection.
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You need to do an episode on how often these two folks get
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together in a relationship. Too.
5:46
Yeah, right. So in today's episode, we're
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going to explore what where these patterns come from, how
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they show up in real life relationships, What happens when
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a codependent and a counter dependent pair up and it's
6:00
common and it's messy. And how healing begins when we
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shift from a fear based state relating and start relating to
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people in a more healthy interdependence.
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I like that. So whether you see yourself on
6:16
one side or both sides, or you're feeling you're still
6:20
trying to like figure it out, this conversation is about
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understanding, not judgment. It's about recognizing the
6:26
protective strategies that we learn and discovering new ways
6:29
to build relationships that feel secure for everyone involved.
6:33
So take a deep breath, get comfortable, and let's unpack
6:36
codependency versus counter dependency and what it really
6:40
means to move towards connection without losing ourselves.
6:43
Well, codependency, he's one of those terms that's kind of
6:46
tossed around a lot. I know I've heard people use it
6:50
my whole life, really. People like, oh, they're
6:53
codependent. I'm too codependent.
6:55
But it's just, it's much more layered, I think than people
6:58
realize. It's not just about being clingy
7:02
or needing people. It's about how we relate to
7:05
others and, and sometimes how we lose ourselves in that process.
7:09
And at its very core, codependency is when.
7:13
Your. Whole sense of self and
7:15
emotional stability depend too much on somebody else's mood,
7:19
their approval, their behavior like you were talking about
7:22
earlier, and you might kind of find yourself constantly just
7:26
trying to make everybody else happy, even if it cost you your
7:29
own peace. Yeah, I always think of, you
7:32
know, when you're happy, I'm happy.
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When you're sad, I'm sad, you know, just kind of got getting
7:37
in there with them, whatever the emotional state is.
7:40
How many people think that's love?
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Right. So where does it come from?
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From? Because codependency doesn't
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just appear out of nowhere. It doesn't.
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It's, it comes from, you know, a number of different places.
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It's often deeply rooted in how we are raised.
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Many people who struggle with codependent patterns grew up in
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families where love was conditional, it was
8:01
unpredictable, and maybe there was a parent struggling with
8:04
addiction, mental health issues or even just emotional
8:07
unavailability. In those situations, we learned
8:10
early on that your safety and your work depends on keeping
8:13
other people happy. And so we become the caretakers,
8:17
the peacekeepers, the fixers. And that skill, you know,
8:21
teaches us how to kind of read the room, anticipating needs of
8:25
others. And it can actually be adaptive
8:27
as a child. So it helps us survive
8:30
emotionally. But as adults, the same pattern
8:33
starts to drain us because we are still trying to manage other
8:36
people's feelings instead of managing our own.
8:39
That's a big statement. That's so true of a lot of
8:42
things that help us kind of just get through childhood.
8:46
Then it was as adults. It doesn't work for us anymore.
8:49
Yeah, you just learn to survive, I guess.
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So let's talk about what what this actually looks like in real
8:56
life. You know, like especially in
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relationships, a huge one is people pleasing just saying yes
9:03
when we want to say no or feeling guilty if we ever put
9:07
our own needs 1st. And maybe constantly checking in
9:11
on how our partner feels or how a friend feels before we can
9:14
feel OK ourselves. Like, you know, if they're
9:16
upset, we just can't relax until we quote UN quote fixed it.
9:21
And then sometimes it's a little more subtle.
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We might think, like, I'm just being supportive, but
9:25
underneath, there's really a lot of anxiety.
9:28
Like if the other person's not happy, then the whole
9:30
relationship is in danger. And I've seen that in
9:33
friendships and in romantic relationships, you know, where
9:37
one person's always giving, always available, and then
9:40
they'll feel resentful because it's not reciprocated.
9:43
But nobody asked them to do that, you know, they just felt
9:46
like they should. And it can happen in families,
9:49
too. It can even happen in the
9:50
workplace. And like we said earlier, it can
9:53
even happen with kids. Kids, it's not just a romantic
9:56
relationship issue. It's kind of a pattern that
9:59
colors every kind of relationship.
10:01
Absolutely. And I think, you know, when we
10:03
talk about kids, there is obviously a need to put the kids
10:07
needs above your own sometimes when you're when they're they're
10:10
young. But at a certain point, you have
10:13
to, you know, start letting them be adults and separating always.
10:18
Easy. Right, so let's talk about the
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emotional cost. The emotional costs of
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codependency can be huge. It can lead to burnout,
10:26
resentment, and even anxiety or depression within a person.
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So because we're constantly scanning for emotional danger,
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that's the reason it can lead to those things.
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We're often trying to prevent others from being upset instead
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of focusing on our own well-being.
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And that hyper focus on others leaves us really feeling
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disconnected from ourselves. And we might not even know what
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we want or how we feel because when we are codependent, we are
10:52
always tuned into someone else's channel.
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And I think that's so incredibly true.
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We just don't ever really, I, I talk a lot about figuring out
11:01
what our needs are with clients and it's surprising how many
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people don't know what they need.
11:07
So I've definitely been there where you start to feel like the
11:11
supporting character in your own life story.
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And it's painful. But the good news is, it's
11:16
possible to unlearn this behavior.
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That sounds very exhausting too. Absolutely.
11:23
So let's talk about what healing looks like here because
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codependency isn't a life sentence.
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You know, there are ways to grow beyond it.
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Like you said, we have to learn and unlearn.
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So the first step is through awareness.
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It's always the first step, you know, noticing our patterns
11:39
without judging ourselves, asking ourselves questions like,
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am I taking responsibility for someone else's emotions right
11:46
now? Am I abandoning myself just to
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kind of keep the peace? Yeah, it's very, very true, very
11:52
powerful. And we talk about this in every
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episode. And then come boundaries.
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I know that work and sound scary for codependence, but boundaries
12:02
aren't walls. They're doors with hinges, if
12:05
you will. They let connection in but also
12:07
protect our personal space. And healthy boundaries sound
12:12
something like I love you, but I can't fix that for you.
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I need some time for myself right now.
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That's a tough one. It's really learning to say no
12:21
with love instead of saying yes and ending up feeling resentful.
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It's so hard for me to remember people appreciate that and have
12:31
a better relationship with me when I have that stance.
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Self compassion also plays a big role here too, because when we
12:39
start to pull back from that over giving, we might feel
12:43
guilty, we might feel fear, but that discomfort is part of the
12:48
growth. It, it means that we're learning
12:50
to stand on our own emotional ground.
12:52
And, and something I tell people a lot is you can't pour from an
12:56
empty cup. You know, the most loving thing
12:58
we can do for other people is to take care of ourselves first.
13:02
So true, so true. I always think of the airline
13:05
video. Put your oxygen on 1st and then
13:08
help the people. So especially in parenting, I
13:12
think if if my baby child was sitting next to me in an
13:15
airplane in that scenario and want to help them first, but
13:19
then I couldn't do anything because I'd be passed out.
13:23
Right. So let's talk about the flip
13:24
side, the counter dependency. So if codependency is about over
13:29
connection, counter dependency is about over independence.
13:33
So it's a pattern of pulling away when things start to feel
13:37
too close or getting too vulnerable.
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I've been that too. So on the surface, counter
13:43
dependency can look like strength.
13:46
You know, it can kind of look like you're self-sufficient or
13:48
independent. Maybe you're even like low
13:50
maintenance. But underneath it's often driven
13:53
by a deep fear of being controlled or hurt or even let
13:57
down. It's it's the I don't need
14:00
anyone stance. You know, people who lean toward
14:03
counter dependency have usually learned that closeness means
14:08
danger, and that depending on other people leads to some kind
14:12
of disappointment or rejection. I feel like this is something
14:15
that really could be learned very early on in like
14:18
dysfunctional toxic families. So instead of leaning in,
14:23
counter dependency tells us to pull away.
14:26
It might cause us to shut down emotionally, avoid commitment,
14:29
or even become uncomfortable when sometimes when someone
14:33
tries to get close to us. It's really interesting because
14:37
while codependency fears abandonment, counter dependency
14:41
feel fears like engulfment. You know, one says don't leave
14:45
me and the other one says don't trap me.
14:48
Like wearing the same, it's like the same wound, just wearing
14:50
different masks. That's a great way to put it.
14:53
So let's talk a little bit about how counter dependency develops
14:56
and kind of where it comes from. Well, often from the same early
15:00
environment that creates codependency, really.
15:04
Maybe we grew up with a caregiver who emotionally was
15:07
unavailable or inconsistent. Maybe we learned early that we
15:10
couldn't rely on other people from this kind of scenario, so
15:14
we learned just to rely on ourselves.
15:16
Yeah, maybe we had to be like the strong one in the family.
15:21
I always think of that family roles chart where you've got the
15:25
the, the caretaker cooking, reading a book and taking care
15:29
of the baby all at one time on the little chart.
15:32
I mean, it pretty much sums it up.
15:34
Yeah. So.
15:34
Where's the parent? Who knows, right?
15:37
And we learned that needing people was really a weakness.
15:40
So as adults, we keep our guard up, not because we don't want to
15:44
love people, but because it doesn't feel safe to us.
15:47
So there's often a longing for connection underneath all of
15:51
that, but also a fear of losing control or being overwhelmed by
15:54
someone else's emotion. I can really see this person in
15:58
a movie, you know, Like I can do it myself.
16:01
And then someone shaking them and getting close.
16:04
You know. And breaking through like a
16:06
goodwill hunting. Oh yeah, that's a good one.
16:09
So let's talk about what counter dependency looks like in real
16:12
relationships. You know one big sign is
16:15
emotional distancing. You know, when a relationship
16:18
starts to feel too close or intense, the person who has
16:21
counter dependency might withdraw.
16:24
They they might get real busy, they might stop communicating,
16:27
they might ghost you. You know, they might even start
16:29
picking fights with you. And it's possible that we might
16:33
choose partners who are emotionally unavailable because
16:36
deep down that kind of feels safer to us.
16:38
It kind of keeps that intimacy at arms length.
16:42
Gosh. Yeah, interesting.
16:44
And ironically, counter dependents often end up with
16:47
codependents. So this is a classic dance
16:50
that's. Why you've got clients?
16:53
Right. The codependent keeps reaching
16:56
in trying to connect and the counter dependent keeps pulling
16:59
away. And it creates this push and
17:01
pull dynamic where both people are acting out of their fears
17:05
without really realizing it and both end up feeling unseen and
17:08
misunderstood. That's so happened so often in
17:13
relationships when I'm working with couples and they say the
17:15
same exact thing, they feel the same exact way and then they're
17:18
like, how is that possible that you feel the same way that I
17:21
feel? So again, one's craving
17:23
closeness and the other is craving space, and neither truly
17:27
feel safe with one another. Sad if they could just kind of
17:30
verbalize that part of it, but that's the whole problem.
17:35
Let's talk a little bit about the emotional cost of counter
17:38
dependency. Counter dependency can truly be
17:41
exhausting. You know, from the outside it
17:44
looks like you're self reliant, but inside there's a lot of
17:48
loneliness and kind of a quiet sense of emptiness because you
17:53
never let anyone in. You know, you don't really get
17:56
to experience real intimacy, so you might build disconnected in
18:01
every relationship. Even when you're in the
18:04
relationship, you can feel disconnected and that can lead
18:07
to a patterns of isolation. You know, kind of telling
18:10
ourselves I'm fine alone while you really secretly long for
18:15
that connection. It's protective, of course, but
18:18
it's also very painful because at the heart of it, counter
18:22
dependency isn't about not needing people.
18:25
It's about not trusting that our needs are going to be met
18:28
safely. Terrible.
18:31
Way to live. So let's talk a little bit about
18:33
healing and moving beyond counter dependency and finding a
18:37
healthy middle ground, that interdependence.
18:40
So it starts with awareness, noticing when we feel that urge
18:44
to pull away or when closeness triggers discomfort.
18:47
We should really ask ourselves, what am I protecting myself from
18:50
right now? And then comes vulnerability,
18:53
you know, practicing letting people in just just little by
18:56
little, we don't have to open up the doors all at once.
19:00
Maybe it's like just sharing a feeling or asking somebody for
19:03
help just once. Maybe me saying when I've got
19:06
the groceries, could you open the door or something like that.
19:09
My husband does let me put that out there.
19:12
He doesn't let me do it. Well, and understanding that
19:15
learning to trust takes time and it it, it helps to work with the
19:19
therapist or someone safe who can model like emotional
19:23
availability, really showing us that connection doesn't have to
19:27
be, you know, a means of control.
19:29
And the one thing that's often overlooked here is self
19:32
compassion. You know, counter dependence can
19:35
be very hard on themselves for needing anything at all.
19:39
So it really is about making peace with our own humanity,
19:42
remembering that needing connection does not make us
19:45
weak, it makes us human. And just remembering that real
19:49
strength is being able to say I can stand on my own, but I also
19:53
value connection. That truly is interdependence.
19:57
So some practical takeaways. Let's share a few steps for
20:01
anyone who like resonates with counter dependency.
20:04
So step one is notice the triggers when we feel, when we
20:09
start to feel smothered or trapped, pause and reflect
20:13
instead of immediately withdrawing from the situation.
20:16
Take a minute. Be conscious to do that.
20:19
Step 2 is to communicate instead of isolate.
20:23
You know, we can say I need some space, but I care about this
20:26
relationship instead of us just disappearing it's.
20:29
So important to say what you're doing when you're taking a break
20:33
helps minimize so much conflict. Step 3 is practice small acts of
20:37
trust. So we have to allow someone to
20:40
help us or open up about something personal each time.
20:44
We're teaching our nervous system that closeness can be
20:47
safe. Like rewiring.
20:50
And then Step 4 is to redefine independence.
20:54
You know, true independence includes the freedom to connect.
20:58
You know, we can be strong and still let other people support
21:01
us. Absolutely.
21:03
So let's bring it full circle now.
21:05
And since we've unpacked codependency and counter
21:09
dependency to opposites but related patterns that can really
21:13
shape the way we connect with others, let's talk about healthy
21:16
dependence, which is that interdependence that we
21:18
mentioned. So let's start with what
21:20
interdependence actually means. At its core, interdependence is
21:25
about connection without losing ourselves.
21:28
It's the ability to stay emotionally close to others
21:31
while we still maintain our own identity, our own boundaries,
21:35
our own sense of self. And I like this one.
21:38
So it's really, it's really like a middle ground between needing
21:41
someone too much and not needing anyone at all.
21:44
So it's being able to say I can lean on you and I can stand on
21:48
my own. And it's such a freeing space to
21:51
live in because relationships stop feeling like survival and
21:54
they start feeling like a choice.
21:56
There's so much freedom in there, so how do we get there?
22:00
Well it starts with self-awareness again.
22:03
So we can't have healthy connections if we don't
22:05
understand our own patterns. So maybe you've noticed you tend
22:08
to clean when you feel insecure? No, I.
22:11
Don't. No, I don't.
22:12
I'm sorry. I thought you were telling me
22:14
that. Or maybe you just shut down when
22:17
someone gets too close. So those are queues.
22:20
Awareness gives us really a chance to pause instead of react
22:24
in situations. We might ask ourselves, like,
22:27
what am I feeling right now? What am I afraid might happen?
22:31
You know, it's about tuning in before we turn outward and
22:35
self-awareness isn't about judgment.
22:37
It's not judging ourselves. It's just about being curious,
22:40
kind of noticing our emotional habits with compassion instead
22:44
of criticism. And here we go again with this
22:47
piece, which is boundaries. And it's not just kind that says
22:51
no, with the kind that defines where we end and someone else
22:55
begins. That's such an important
22:57
distinction. Boundaries aren't walls, they're
23:01
clarity. They help us take ownership of
23:03
our feelings, but they also allow people to have theirs.
23:07
And it's the shift from you made me feel to I feel I need.
23:13
And saying I need something, you know, to someone that you care
23:16
about and that you love. It's so it's so simple, but so
23:19
difficult at the same time. So emotional ownership.
23:23
It really changes everything. When we stop blaming others for
23:26
our feelings and stop taking responsibility for theirs,
23:30
relationships can really become much more balanced.
23:33
And safe, you know, because boundaries createspace for trust
23:37
to grow for both people to kind of show up authentically without
23:41
being in fear of being consumed or abandoned.
23:45
Like that, the next layer of interdependence is healthy
23:48
communication. We talk a lot about healthy
23:50
communication and a lot of people think vulnerability
23:54
equals weakness, but it actually is one of the strongest tools we
23:58
have in relationships. It's really how we build trust
24:02
in our relationships. That is a powerful statement.
24:05
Vulnerability says here's who I am without demanding that the
24:09
other person fix it or fill it or do anything about it.
24:12
It it's sharing honestly, you know, not for validation, but
24:16
just for the connection. And that means learning to
24:20
listen. And in an interdependent
24:23
relationship, both of the people feel seen and heard because
24:27
there's space for each person's truth to exist.
24:30
You know, it's not about always agreeing with the other person,
24:34
but just kind of staying connected even when we don't
24:36
agree. I like that.
24:38
So let's talk a little bit about the balance part.
24:40
So because interdependence is really a dance between autonomy
24:44
and connection, it's the understanding that we can love
24:47
someone deeply and still have our own life, our own goals, and
24:51
our own emotional world, believe it or not.
24:54
Because true closeness isn't about merging, you know?
24:57
It's about two whole people just choosing to walk side by side in
25:01
life, you know? So think of it like 2 trees that
25:04
grow next to each other. You know their roots are
25:07
intertwined, but each one still has its own trunk and branches.
25:12
And when both people take responsibility for nurturing
25:14
themselves, the relationship naturally becomes stronger and
25:18
more balanced. So let's talk about some
25:20
practical tools that we can use in order to build
25:22
interdependence in our lives. The first one is practicing
25:27
emotional check insurance. Just taking a few minutes each
25:30
day to ask ourselves how we're feeling, what we need.
25:34
It just kind of helps us stay connected to ourselves before we
25:37
start reacting to others. This is where journaling can
25:41
really come in handy, in my opinion.
25:43
Just kind of writing down your feelings and how you handled
25:46
situations throughout the day and then being able to reflect
25:49
on that. I think that's really, really
25:50
powerful. That can kind of sort them out
25:52
too. Yeah can really help you make
25:55
some connections. O tool #2 is express your needs
25:59
directly. Don't wait for people to guess
26:01
or rescue you saying I need some time to rest or I'd like more
26:05
quality time with you. Build honesty and trust with the
26:08
other person. And then tool #3 is to give and
26:12
receive support. So let other people be there for
26:14
you and you be there for them. But do all that without kind of
26:19
losing your own sense of balance.
26:22
Tool #4 set time for self-care that isn't reactive, not just
26:26
after burnout but on a regular basis.
26:28
So you can't stay balanced if you only recharge when you're
26:32
running on empty. So really important that you
26:34
make that regular a regular routine.
26:37
That is a stand alone tool, honestly, and then tool #5 is to
26:42
notice the middle ground. You don't have to swing between
26:46
closeness and distance. Sometimes the healthiest move is
26:50
just kind of staying present and curious even when we're
26:53
uncomfortable. Yes, well, let's talk real life
26:56
applications. So it's important to remember
26:59
the interdependence as a practice and not a finish line.
27:03
So you still have moments when you slip into old patterns.
27:06
That's just true with any kind of change and maybe you over
27:10
give or you pull away too fast, but just being aware gives you
27:14
the choice that you didn't have before.
27:17
That's, you know, coming back to your journaling, that would be a
27:20
great way to kind of watch the patterns and to see when I'm
27:25
pulling away or when I'm, you know, doing either one of those
27:27
things. I love the journaling idea.
27:30
Yeah, it's huge. So every time that you choose to
27:33
respond instead of react, you strengthen that interdependent
27:36
muscle and and the more you do, the more your relationship will
27:41
shift and and it'll start to feel lighter, more reciprocal,
27:45
more real. And honestly more peaceful
27:48
because you no longer trying to control or be controlled, you
27:51
simply are being yourself in connection with others.
27:55
So as we wrap up this episode from codependency to counter
28:00
dependency to interdependence, I think a big take away is this,
28:05
you know, healthy relationships begin with self connection.
28:08
When we know ourselves, when we know our needs, our limits, our
28:11
emotions, we can show up for others in ways that are genuine
28:16
and balanced and sustainable. And that's kind of the heart of
28:20
interdependence. You know, I can hold myself and
28:23
still hold space for you. Thank you so much for joining us
28:27
on this journey. We hope that these conversations
28:30
have helped you understand yourself and maybe your
28:32
relationships just a little better.
28:34
And if you found this meaningful, please share it with
28:38
someone who might need it. And, and remember that healing
28:41
doesn't mean that we never need anybody.
28:43
It it means learning to need people well.
28:46
I like that. Well, remember to send us your
28:49
questions that you would like to be answered and maybe an
28:52
upcoming episode of Questions for Counselors.
28:55
We love to hear your topic ideas for future episodes and any
28:59
interaction that we have with you guys is always great.
29:02
Feel free to hit us up on any of our any of the platforms.
29:05
You can also check out our website at lifelivebetter.net.
29:08
There's a place that you could submit topic ideas or questions
29:11
right through the website. And we're on all of the social
29:15
media platforms. So feel free to look us up,
29:17
share us. Remember to join us every other
29:20
Thursday for new in depth episodes and the alternating
29:23
Thursdays for mental health moments, our abbreviated
29:26
episodes. Thank you again for listening
29:29
today. And as always, don't forget that
29:31
knowledge leads to a life Live better.
29:38
Thank you for listening to Life Live Better with Paula and
29:41
Joseph. Yay, thank you for listening to
29:46
the Life Live Better podcast. Please subscribe, rate, review
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29:57
This episode was written by Paula Garland, edited by Joseph
30:00
Massey, and recorded on Spotify. Information used in this episode
30:04
and other content data can be found in our show notes.
30:07
We look forward to seeing you again in two weeks.