Latest / All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting / 105. How one mom turned heartbreak into healing for others with Angel Leung of Baby Bean Consulting

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105. How one mom turned heartbreak into healing for others with Angel Leung of Baby Bean Consulting · All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting

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You're listening to the All Figured Out podcast.
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I'm your host, Andrea Barr. I'm a career coach for parents,
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mom of two, and a self-proclaimed expert at
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winging it. After 10 years in the corporate
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world, two major career pivots, and navigating life with kids,
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I've learned one thing. No parent has it all figured
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out, and that's OK. Here, we're all about growing
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personally and professionally while keeping family time
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sacred. You'll get practical tips,
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career strategies and musings on life, plus guest experts to help
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us fill in the gaps. So grab a coffee or hide in your
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car for some knee time. We're about to figure out this
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worked life and parenting stuff out together.
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Angel Young, thank you so much for joining me on the All
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Figured Out Podcast. Thank you so much for having me
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today. I'm so excited about our
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conversation. Me too, I I want to dive right
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in. So take us back to pre children.
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What was life like? Yeah.
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So my name is Angel and by profession I'm a registered
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nurse and pre children I was doing, you know, all the nursery
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things. I was working shift worked at
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the hospital, I worked in the NICU at BC Women's Hospital.
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And I had like this wonderful privilege to kind of like, you
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know, meander through the healthcare system And I had, you
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know, the opportunity to work in acute care settings, to work in
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a community with kids, to work in education at UBC.
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And, and so like, it was life was really good.
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And like, I love being a nurse. Like there is just so many
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different avenues to kind of explore my interest, hone in on
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specialty skills. And like, I really did love that
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patient interaction aspect of my job.
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And so I think being a nurse is and will always be a part of who
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I am. But I feel like my career has
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really pivoted since having kids.
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And I think as a nurse, I never thought that would happen.
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I thought I was just gonna, you know, retire as a grumpy old
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bedside nurse or hopefully not so grumpy.
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But it wasn't until like I, I kind of like, you know, went
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through the whole fertility motherhood journey and then it
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kind of life changed and I had to adapt.
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And so for me, um, my, my story involves my husband and I going
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through recurrent pregnancy losses when we were trying to
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grow our family. And it was through that
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experience that I think I got, I mean, as a nurse, I know what a
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miscarriage is. I worked with families who were
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going through losses all the time, But it wasn't until I
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became the patient that it really dawned on me.
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And I really recognize, Oh my goodness, we have, we have so
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many gaps in our healthcare system and especially for
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families, for women who are going through pregnancy losses.
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And it wasn't until I had my youngest that I right, I was
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like, I think similar to many other women, many other parents
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out there. I was going through Matt Lee
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with my youngest. And I remember sitting there
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being like, I don't know if I want to go back to my job.
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I don't know what I want to do. I love being a nurse, but do I
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want to go back to shift work? Do I want to go back to what I
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was doing before? Do I still have the same passion
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for what I was doing before my kids came along?
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And and then it, it kind of dawned on me one day having
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while I was having a conversation with my husband
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that I could pivot, I could change and I could use my lived
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experience, which has been so close and dear to me, but also
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has really shaped me into, I think a new type of nurse and to
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pair that with my clinical skills.
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And so that's where we launched baby being consulting.
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And so that is now my career. They've been consulting is a
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private nursing service that supports women going through
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miscarriages, pregnancy after loss and birth trauma.
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And yeah, it's been quite the journey.
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Oh, my goodness. Well, congratulations on the
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business that you have birthed because it is.
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You do such beautiful work. Take us back.
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It sounds like you had that moment when you're on badly,
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when you're like, what do I want to be when I grow up?
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You know, you had that realization that maybe something
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needed to shift. Clearly you had changed.
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You, as a person, had Page take us back to that story of what it
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was that changed you. I think it wasn't for me, it
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wasn't just a single instance where I was like, oh, that was
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so pivotal and boom, I shifted. It was more so like obviously in
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our journey, we went through loss after loss.
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And I also my, my lot, my third loss was the second trimester
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loss. And so it was, it had just
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impacted me on such a personal level in so many ways.
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And as I was going through madly, if I had a really close
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friend who was also going through a loss, and I remember
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being her friend, but also putting on like my nursing, like
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thinking cap and being like, OK, like, let's think critically.
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Like this is what you need to do.
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This is what you need to be asking for.
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This is how you advocate for yourself.
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And like, no, don't let them send you home with just, you
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know, a single piece of paper for blood work.
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Like ask for this. Like make sure you book your
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next follow up appointment. Like this is like, call this
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number, do this. And I remember being so like on
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fire and passionate about making sure that my friend was getting
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the most appropriate care, like the best care she could receive
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in this most horrifying, heartbreaking moment.
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And I remember having a chat with my husband that very night,
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and I remember he was like, Angel.
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I watched him fight so hard for us when we were going through
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our losses. I watch you do it again and
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again. And you knew how because you're
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a nurse and you know the system. You know how to navigate through
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it. You know what to ask and you
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know what to look for. And now I'm watching you do the
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same thing for our family and our friends.
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But then he asked me, that's like really pivotal question
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where he was like, well, what about everybody else?
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What about all the other women and families who are in this
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province, in this country who like doesn't have that.
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They have nobody. They don't have a family who
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works in healthcare. They don't, they don't have
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lived experience. They have no idea what to do.
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Like what about them? And my husband is in business,
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he's in the finance sector. And so I think he's always had
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the business thinking cap on. And so, and, and I think as a,
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as my spouse, he's seeing me transition through and being
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like, I don't think you are happy with your job.
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I don't think you want to go back.
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And so I think he was more still like planting the seed of like,
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well, what about doing something you're actually passionate
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about, you're really good at, and like, that could really make
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a difference. Like, what do you think about
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it? And I remember being like, yeah,
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I have a crying baby in my arms right now.
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I am not ready to take on this like, huge entrepreneurship
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venture. But I think as time went on, it
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became quite clear that I really didn't want to go back to work.
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And I actually, I, I think for me, like, you know, all the
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ducks lined up in a row and the stars aligned and, and baby
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bean. Was born OHT and how did you
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Even so before that moment where you were kind of given something
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to play off of where your husband was like, hey, here's an
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idea and you had something to react to.
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How were you navigating even just the jungle gym in your mind
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of crap? What am I going to do next?
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Like what am I am I going to go back?
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I don't really want to go back. How were you going through that
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mentally with the baby in your arms?
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So my son, he's the youngest out of all of my pregnancies.
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And I think by then I was going through a lot because it had
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taken us so much. We've gone through so much to be
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able to hold him earthside in our arms.
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And so I think there was this huge part of me where I think, I
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think I, I was, I was trying to figure out like, how can I be
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the best mom to my kids? I, I had a toddler at that
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point. So my daughter was about 3:00
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and then I had a newborn and I with my daughter, her
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personality, she needed me to go back to work because I was too
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boring for her at home. I was I.
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Love. It I was not a good stay at home
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mom, although in my heart I wanted to, but I, my daughter is
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just so social and she's so fun and like staying at home because
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I'm a homebody. And like she, you could just
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tell she was so bored out of her little mind.
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And so putting my child, my daughter into daycare and for me
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to go back to work was the right thing to do at that point in
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time. But my son was different.
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My son's personality is quite different.
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And also when my son was born, he was actually a NICU baby.
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And so I think there is a huge part of my heart where I'm like,
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oht, my little Nick, you baby, like I'm not ready to leave you.
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And like just with everything regarding his pregnancy, his
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birth and like his first year of life, there was so many like
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there's a lot of complications that kind of like was always on
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the back of my mind. So I feel like, oh, like if
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there was a way for me to still have control over my career and
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have, you know, the power to kind of dictate the time I want
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to pour into my career, but also to be able to prioritize my
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children. Like that would be so ideal.
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And so I think like that was the thought of like, maybe a
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business is something that might be the answer.
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But then again, I feel like I didn't give it too much thought
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and I didn't like, really sit down and learn about like, Oh my
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gosh, running a business is like raising a whole new baby.
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Like, but but it was, it was, there was a lot of thought
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process back and forth and like having those conversations with
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my husband. But yeah, I'm glad we did, and
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I'm glad we launched. I'm, well, I'm very glad you did
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it. I can only imagine how many
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clients have you, you know, how many families do you think
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you've supported at this point? Oh my goodness.
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I mean, we have launched for about two years now and I, I do
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say we've connected with hundreds of families and albeit
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not all of them end up being clients, but it is so
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heartwarming to know that like we are, you know, able to
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connect with people even if it's just for the 15 minute intro
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code that that they needed in that point of their journey.
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That's all they needed. And so, yeah, so it's been, it's
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been really good. Congrats, it's so incredible.
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I want to go back to a question I was thinking about earlier and
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then forgot. But.
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What would you say was the difference?
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It's you're somebody who, like you said, we're working.
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You were around families, growing families, miscarriages
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and things like that, and then you yourself had suffered
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losses. What would you say is the
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biggest difference between someone like myself who's never
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experienced the loss, someone who conceptually understands
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that, someone who's empathetic but has never lived it to then
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living it like I can only, I can just imagine your little
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rational brain being like, I understand this, I know this,
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I'm empathetic, and then you go through it.
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What would you say is that big difference?
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I think the biggest difference for me actually was how my
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community showed up for me, how my medical team showed up for me
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and how I like lived through it. Like to be honest, I think for
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me, maybe because of my nursing background, like the physical
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aspect of a miscarriage, of going through a pregnancy loss,
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like I knew what it was textbook wise.
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I knew exactly what's happening to my body and like, I didn't
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have a typical miscarriage. They had complications with all
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of my losses. So I did end up going back to
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the hospital. I had complications.
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It was messy and not fun. But at the same time, like I
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think the physical aspect of it was very black and white for me.
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It was like, OK, this is happening.
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There's no turning back. Like we're dealing with this
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now. But I think what was like very
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eye opening and like honestly, like it was shocking and
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multiple different ways was like the way that my medical, my
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medical team interacted with me. Like I had, I was very lucky.
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I had really amazing family doctors and specialists that was
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already on board with me. And so like I felt like I was
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very supportive. But even then I felt like there
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were times where like I felt like my healthcare providers and
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I get it, they are busy and they don't have the time to hold your
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hand through, you know, isn't that the laws and everything
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that comes with the pregnancy laws?
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But I remember like, I remember at one point, like one of my
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doctors looked at me and just was like, I'm so sorry you're
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going through this. And then, but then like in that
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same breath, they were like, you know, you're young, you're
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healthy, you know, you get like you can get pregnant again, you
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know. And then I remember another
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specialist also like, kind of like piped in and was like,
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yeah. So like, you know, we did the
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typical like, you know, the standard follow up blood test
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and the ultrasound and the. And then they basically just
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said, and you're a nurse. So like if something is wrong or
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like something is not expected, like, you know what to do.
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And like, I remember in that moment I was like, but I'm not a
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nurse right now. Right now.
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I am a grieving mom right now. I lost my baby.
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You just told me my baby died. And I'm faced with all these
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decisions of what? What are my next options?
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Like, what are my treatment options?
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And like, I don't even know what to do.
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And you're telling me that I should know what to do.
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And I remember, like finding ways to reconcile.
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That was so hard. And I remember like on the
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broader community, I feel like in general, my husband and I are
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probably we would be considered more like private people versus
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maybe some other individuals who are like very like comfortable
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sharing things openly. I think like for us, like we did
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share with our closest family and friends.
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But at the same time, I felt like it was.
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It wasn't until I went through a loss that I really understood
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how hard it is for other people to come alongside of me and say
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just like even say like the simplest of words and be like,
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I'm so sorry that happened. Like, can you tell me about your
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baby? Like did you have a name for
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your baby? Like, was it a baby boy or a
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baby girl? Like tell me about your
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pregnancy with them. Like things like that.
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I think it was just so hard and like, I think personally I
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struggled a little bit more because I am a first generation
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immigrant. So I grew up here in Canada, but
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I have very Asian, Chinese parents.
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And my mom, she is so lovely and I love her so much.
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She lives overseas and every time that I had a miscarriage,
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my mom flew over take care of me and bless her heart, she like
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dropped everything and she came over.
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But my mom's way of taking care of me and my mom's way of
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showing up and being here with me during my most heartbreaking
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moments as a mother myself was she was drowning me with chicken
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soup. Like she showed up and she was
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just like take over my kitchen and like cook up like stocks of
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like chicken soup and like cook up these meals that like are
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very Chinese and like my kids and my husband don't really eat.
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But like she just like, just like us and took care of us and
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loved us in that way, which is so wonderful and nourishing and
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like the physical sense. But like I, I feel like I'm
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quite Canadian because I grew up here and I also went to nursing
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school here. So I feel like I was very like,
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like fully like in the Canadian healthcare system.
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And so like, I was like, I needed someone to show up and
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like, talk to me and acknowledge me, acknowledge my baby, talk
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about my like, my experience. And like, you know, and even to
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this day, it's been years now, but like, my man still is not
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able to say, you know, she can't say the words.
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I'm so sorry about your miscarriage.
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I'm so sorry that your babies died.
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Like, it just culturally is so taboo.
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And it's just like, so like counterintuitive for her.
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And I think that those are the moments where like, as a
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patient, I'm like, OK, this is hard.
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As a nurse, I knew all of that. You know, you get trained about,
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you know, cultural sensitivity and you get you, you get taught
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all these things, but you don't actually get taught any of it
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until you actually go through it.
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And so I think like that's something that's really spurred
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on my passion for Baby Bean is that we do have healthcare
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system, we have resources, we have support, but they're often
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siloed off and women aren't able to get connected in a timely
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manner. And even when they are
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connected, it might not be culturally relevant or it might
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just not be the right support that they need.
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And so I feel like that's something that I'm like, oh, I
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went through it and I really, I would like to change that
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narrative for other women going through it.
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Wow, thank you so much for being so honest with everything you
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just shared. Like I'm really in awe of I am
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really annoyed of your openness because I know you're able to
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say I freaking love my mom and she made the best damn chicken
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soup I've ever had in my life and it's still not what I
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needed. And that's OK.
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It doesn't mean you don't love your mom.
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It means that you're being honest and you're vocalizing
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somebody that I can only imagine hundreds of people listening are
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like same girl, same. However, we're made to feel like
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we should always be grateful. We don't ever want to say on
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loving things about our parents. You know, like that's just, but,
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but I'm just so grateful to you for for bringing that up because
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when we go through hard stuff and I've not experienced what
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you've experienced, of course, but when we go through hard
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stuff, it's really important to say you're allowed to feel what
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you feel. You're allowed to feel pissed
17:57
off about the thing that the person said.
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It's not to say that you need to unfriend that person to unfairly
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that person. It's just to say that you're
18:05
allowed to feel something. And what you're doing with that
18:09
is like you're taking the feelings and the gaps that you
18:11
felt and the things that you really appreciated, the friends
18:14
who would ask you those really hard questions of, you know, did
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you have a name? And you're taking that and
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you're like, OK, how can I make this a business?
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How can I make this a normal thing?
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Like what? How can I take those gaps and
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create something like a service out of this, which I think is so
18:30
beautiful. And I also want to say I had a a
18:34
podcast recording with a woman named Selena Sayani back in the
18:37
earlier days of the podcast, probably episode 4050.
18:42
And she is somebody who lost her brother when he was, I think he
18:46
was 19 years old. So she was in her young 20s.
18:48
They were really, really close and so she created a company all
18:52
about grief and grief support tools.
18:54
I should connect you guys actually.
18:55
Yes. You would totally dive.
18:59
And the one thing I'll never forget her saying on that
19:02
podcast episode that's ringing so clear as you bring it up here
19:06
is she said, I wanted people to ask me about my brother.
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She's like, I wanted people to ask me about him.
19:12
I wanted people to commemorate his life.
19:15
And something that you were just saying is, you know, ask me, did
19:20
you have a name? What was your pregnancy like?
19:22
What was your time with this baby like?
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Would you speak more to that? Could you speak more about, you
19:29
know, that that desire for you personally perhaps is not for
19:32
everybody, but that like really perhaps honoring the soul that
19:37
was with you? What is that for you?
19:40
I think that, you know, I, I think you kind of hit it right
19:44
on. It's, it's the fact that like I
19:47
think in the bereaved world, as a bereaved parent, I think there
19:53
is a very strong desire for our babies to be remembered because
19:57
they're not physically here and they won't be physically here.
20:01
So the only way that they will be remembered, they will be a
20:05
part of my family is if I say their names is if I teach my
20:11
children, my living children about the siblings that didn't
20:14
get to stay long enough. And I think that there is a fine
20:18
line. And again, everyone is
20:20
different. So I'm only speaking on behalf
20:22
of myself, but. I think that there is a very
20:25
fine line of, you know, living deep in your grief and staying
20:31
there versus learning to live your life and allowing grief to
20:36
coexist with every other aspect of your life.
20:40
And I think that as a society, I think it's natural for us to not
20:45
want to talk about grief and death and not want to talk about
20:49
this scary, unknown parts of life.
20:52
That's just human nature. We shy away from that and we
20:54
want to jump on the good stuff, the exciting stuff, the things
20:57
that it's worth celebrating. But when we talk about a baby
21:00
dying, it's like, OK, what do you say?
21:05
And so I think like for me as a mom, I, I've had five
21:09
pregnancies and I have two living children and three of my
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babies were they went home to soon.
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And I think that, you know, for my husband and I, every single
21:20
one of those pregnancies were planned.
21:22
They were very much so babies who we wanted and wanted to hold
21:27
in our arms. And so I think with that naming
21:33
our children with it kind of came naturally that that every
21:37
child, every one of our children would have a name.
21:39
And, and also my living daughter, she's 6 now, but she
21:46
witnessed 2 of my miscarriages. So she was old enough to see my
21:50
body changing. She was old enough to
21:52
understand. And with my second trimester
21:55
loss, like we had shared with her that she was going to be a
21:57
big sister. We had told her that, you know,
21:59
there's a baby growing in on these belly.
22:01
She saw my belly get big. She was, she was at one of the
22:05
appointments with me. So like she was quite involved.
22:08
And then and then all of a sudden, like baby died and she
22:12
like couldn't really wrap her little mind around it.
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And so she has lived through all of that.
22:18
And so it is an open conversation in our home where,
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you know, there are certain days now where she'll show up and
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she's like, mommy, tell me about Eli.
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Tell me about like what happened.
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And then like, there's just moments where like in her little
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mind, she's still processing it. She's still understanding it and
22:37
her little brother, So he's, he didn't live through it.
22:42
He came after all of them. But he is very much so aware
22:45
because his older sister tells him, his older sister tells him
22:48
that, hey, you know, like we actually, mummy actually had
22:51
five babies. And then my son would be like,
22:53
no, he mommy only had two. But like, it's, it's interesting
22:58
to hear them have those conversations and to kind of
23:01
like talk about it. And I think as a mom, but also
23:05
as an entrepreneur, I think that it is very heartwarming for me
23:10
to come to the realization that my children understand the work
23:15
that I do and that they embrace it.
23:17
And they, like, are my little cheerleaders.
23:20
So my little girl has like shared with other people and
23:24
literally say like my mommy works with other moms who can't
23:28
bring their babies home. And like in her little like 6
23:32
year old mind, like she's had conversations with other people
23:34
where like she's like, yes. And as people go through
23:37
miscarriages and that's when you know their babies die and that's
23:40
really sad. And like her words sometimes
23:42
will shock other people and be like, wow, you're so young.
23:44
Like what are you like who what are your parents teaching you?
23:47
But at the same time, for her, I think it wasn't like it was like
23:52
a very like shocking, terrifying, traumatic experience
23:56
of like she was exposed to this all of a sudden, but it was more
23:59
so like she lived through it. This is part of her story as
24:02
well. And she is learning to tell her
24:04
story in words that she can articulate where that she can
24:07
resonate with. And like as she gets older,
24:10
it'll probably change. But like it's, I think it's
24:13
quite heartwarming for me to know that like she gets it and
24:16
she also understands what baby being consulting is all about.
24:19
And so how? How do you discuss, I guess with
24:23
your little one, with your little guy?
24:25
Maybe it's this is a better question to ask for your
24:28
daughter, but she really was really going through with you.
24:31
But discussing, discussing death with children, how have you
24:36
navigated that? Asking for a friend.
24:40
Over here. Because it's coming up, it's
24:43
it's I have a four year old and a 2 year old.
24:45
My husband has the great fortune of having a grandmother still
24:48
alive. So our kids have great grandma.
24:51
And actually the other day my daughter said, where is there a
24:54
great grandpa that was grandma know which was great grandma
24:58
ever married or did she have or something like that?
25:00
It was so cute and and we were getting out of the car, so we
25:03
kind of actually skirted past it, but I was like, well, we got
25:05
aligned on this. Like what are we?
25:08
How are we discussing this? I lost my dad when I was 4.
25:11
And so she does have a grandpa in heaven who she doesn't know
25:15
anything about because I just haven't known how to bring this
25:19
up. So how have you done this in
25:20
your family? How have you discussed?
25:22
That I think. I mean I'm sure there are other
25:25
like like child psychology based ways.
25:28
I'm not asking them I. Want to eat those records?
25:32
Thank you. I thank you for sharing about
25:35
your dad and I, I, I appreciate you sharing that because I, I
25:40
think This Is Us relating to each other.
25:43
I also lost my dad. I, my dad died very suddenly on
25:46
a work business trip when I was 16 years old.
25:49
And so no, I wasn't poor, but it was it just as a teenager like
25:54
that was like my, and my dad was like my best friend.
25:57
And so it was, it was my world came crashing down.
26:00
And so, yes, my children are also growing up knowing that
26:03
there's a grandparent in heaven, but like they don't really know
26:09
anything. But like, my daughter is now old
26:11
enough to kind of make that connection and being like, so
26:14
like Grandpa Lewis is with like our babies, like, do they get to
26:19
see each other in heaven? And I'm like, I think so.
26:23
I think Grandpa Lewis is taking care of, you know, Eli and
26:27
Light, Nathaniel and Bethany, like they're all, they're
26:29
probably all holding hands and having a snack together right
26:31
now. Like they have a beautiful time.
26:34
But I think because I am a nurse, I think conversations in
26:40
our household is just very like blatantly open and black and
26:44
white. And I think that like, I don't
26:48
think my husband and I actually ever had like a true
26:51
conversation of like, how do we talk about death with our with
26:54
our children? And I think that it kind of just
26:57
stems from like, like when we were going through it, like it
27:01
was just the truth. It was just the truth.
27:02
Like our baby died, his heartbeat stopped.
27:05
And so therefore he's not alive. And like for my little 3 year
27:09
old, like for her, she like at that point she understood the
27:13
like, oh, some something and someone is alive or they're not
27:17
alive. And like that was it.
27:19
Like that was just like a very black and white concept to her.
27:22
And like, she didn't, like, she wasn't like at an age where she
27:24
was asking about like what happens when you die and like
27:27
what happens to your body. She just like understood the
27:29
concept of like, they're here, they're breathing, they're not
27:32
here, they're not breathing. And so I think we kind of just
27:35
leaned into that when she was younger and like she didn't
27:39
really question it. And as she got older, I think
27:41
she kind of like understood like, oh, there's like literally
27:45
a life cycle. People are born, things are born
27:48
and then they live and then like they die.
27:50
And like, I think my kids are just very black and white
27:53
scientific. And I think it might be my, the
27:56
way I I talk as a nurse at home maybe.
27:58
But like they like they're very aware of like, oh, yeah.
28:02
OK, So like, you know, people don't live forever and like and
28:06
I think like that's kind of like slowly come into connection of
28:09
like, OK, so like our babies just didn't get to live for very
28:15
long at all. And but they do.
28:17
My kids believe in heaven. And so they believe that, like,
28:21
you know, their baby siblings are in heaven and like, Grandpa
28:23
Lewis is up there. And so, like, it hasn't been a
28:27
hard topic for us at home. And we haven't necessarily like,
28:31
you know, changed some like deep dive into like, how do you
28:35
educate your children in ways that are not traumatizing?
28:38
I think for us, it was just like when my daughter and now my son,
28:42
when they ask about like life Jeth or like our babies, like
28:46
it's just a very like honest conversation.
28:49
And I think that there are sometimes there's things when I
28:52
say to like my son, he's 3, where I'm like, yeah, just like
28:56
he just like doesn't get it. And that's OK.
28:59
But I think that for me, just because I'm a nurse, I feel like
29:02
there wasn't really any point on me sugar coating it being like,
29:05
oh, that's like, come up with a character or come up with
29:07
something to like, you know, dictate or direct this story.
29:11
And so I think, and I, I hear my kids talk amongst themselves and
29:16
like, I feel like my little 6 year old is like, she's funny
29:19
because she just like says as is like, so she's like, I've heard
29:24
them talk and like, you know, even in their little mind.
29:26
There was one time when I was making dinner and they were
29:29
already sitting down having their meals, and I heard my
29:32
daughter talk to her, her brother being like, you know,
29:35
you need to love me, right? Because mom and Dad are gonna
29:38
die one day, and then you're just gonna have me.
29:41
So you need to love me, OK? It was so hilarious.
29:45
And then my little son, he was like, he like looked up at her
29:48
with these big puppy eyes and he was just like, I already love
29:53
you and I don't want mommy and daddy to die.
29:56
And then my sister, my, my, my daughter was like, well, I mean,
30:00
it's just part of life. They will die.
30:03
But like, you'll have me like we're siblings, so you have to
30:06
love me. Like no little conversation of
30:08
them. No.
30:10
So like, it was cute, but it also was like, I'm like, I'm
30:13
pretty sure if other people listen in on this conversation,
30:15
it's like, what do your parents teach?
30:17
You you guys talk about death a lot.
30:21
I swear it's not a daily conversation, it's just when it
30:24
comes up. Yeah.
30:25
But it sounds like you've done it.
30:26
You've integrated in a really natural way as it's come up
30:29
like. I hope so.
30:31
Not that I mean, unfortunately, miscarriage and loss is natural,
30:35
but it's doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.
30:37
And, and Speaking of which, with your losses, given this is a
30:42
podcast where we talk a lot about work and life and
30:45
parenting and how you're integrating all those things.
30:47
How the hell were you navigating being a working professional in
30:52
the field that you're in while you're going through losses?
30:56
How did you handle that? To be honest, I I don't really
31:00
know. Sheer willpower.
31:02
Maybe it was, it was really hard and I think there was one point
31:08
where it was the beginning of the pandemic, so everybody was
31:11
working from home. So I was really fortunate enough
31:14
that I was in a like clinical informatics role where I got to
31:17
work from home. And so I remember at that point,
31:21
it was the beginning of the pandemic.
31:23
I was, my husband and I were both working full time from
31:26
home. And my daughter, she was a
31:27
toddler and we had pulled her out of daycare because we were
31:30
like, there's no full pandemic. So like we kept her home with
31:34
us. So she was full time home with
31:35
us while we were working full time.
31:38
And then I went through two miscarriages during that time
31:41
and it was like it was just so messy.
31:44
It was so messy, so heartbreaking, so wild.
31:48
And everything felt so big and, and scary because of COVID.
31:53
And, and for my work, My Portfolio was maternity.
31:57
It was the whole maternity. So like I was like supporting
32:01
like maternity doctors and nurses and my role.
32:04
And I was like constantly talking to them about cases,
32:08
about people, about everything. And, but it was like my world
32:11
revolved around pregnant people. And so my work was involving
32:15
that. And I had my toddler at home and
32:17
then it was chaos. And then I was going through my
32:19
miscarriages And I, I don't have a clear cut blueprint for you on
32:25
how I did it because I don't think I would ever recommend
32:27
anyone doing what we did. I, I think for me, looking back,
32:35
I think, I think it was because I had a goal.
32:39
Like in my mind, it was really clear that like we wanted
32:42
another child. And like, I feel like I, there
32:46
was never a point where I viewed my miscarriages as like, oh,
32:49
it's a setback. Oh, this is like a failed cycle
32:52
or a failed whatever. It just felt like this is part
32:54
of my story and how I don't want my story to end here.
32:59
I want to keep going. I want to keep growing and like
33:01
I want to keep living and being a mom and I want to like be a
33:06
good mom to my daughter. And I also know that like there
33:08
was almost that like invisible pressure of like, I knew that
33:10
like she was watching. She is learning from this and I
33:13
can't crumble. I can't fall apart because I
33:16
mean, yes, to a certain degree, yes, but like I, I wanted her to
33:20
know that like we can do hard things together as a family.
33:24
And I think that I think that was a huge part of how like we
33:28
like and I and to be honest, like I, I'm just really
33:31
fortunate. I have a very, very supportive
33:33
spouse who just like, oh, he's a St. and he's just like, he knew
33:39
what I needed when I needed what and like was able to step in and
33:43
be the person I needed him to be as I as we were navigating
33:46
through this together. So I think that together we were
33:49
able to move through this, but it's not easy and it wasn't, I
33:54
don't think there is any blueprint on like, how do you
33:56
juggle all of this? I think as you know, as females,
33:59
as working parents, as like just like individuals in general,
34:03
especially if you own a business or you are like, you know, deep
34:06
in your career, which whatever type of career it might be, I
34:10
think that like there is, it always feels like there's so
34:12
many balls in the air and you're trying to keep it all up.
34:14
And but I think that, like, you know, when push comes to shove,
34:18
we all we all know what our priorities are and then we kind
34:22
of like we put all our energy and focus to that, right.
34:25
And then like, I think that there is a lot of grace that we
34:28
can give ourselves when it comes to like, OK, I just can't handle
34:32
that right now. Like I can't be the
34:34
neighborhood, you know, like, I don't know, like whatever, you
34:38
know, most amazing neighbor was like the perfect mode lawn and
34:42
like, you know, the Pollocks every day.
34:43
Like so there's there's some things that you can leave and
34:47
you can set aside for a moment for this season and focus on
34:51
what is important to you. I think that that is ultimately
34:54
what we did, although I think at that time we didn't.
34:55
Know we were just like, oh, how do we surviving?
34:58
Yeah, if you're talking to somebody who, whether it's a
35:02
client or somebody who is a friend and you're giving advice
35:05
on those early stages of pregnancy, say like you pee on
35:09
the stick and you see that and maybe it's the person's first
35:12
time or hundredth time, who know, it doesn't matter.
35:14
How do you recommend somebody building a village of support of
35:18
practitioners around them to God forbid, future proof?
35:24
Um, you know, should something like a loss happen?
35:28
Like, how do you ensure that you've got the right people in
35:30
place so that whatever happens, you're feeling good about who's
35:34
around you? I think that is such a good
35:36
question and I think that a little bit tricky to do here
35:40
because of our healthcare landscape.
35:41
I like we we're so fortunate that we have a healthcare
35:45
system. We have a landscape.
35:46
Which is great. We do, we do, absolutely.
35:48
It is just a little bit rough at the moment, you know, things are
35:52
stretched quite thin. Comes to like your healthcare
35:56
village. I think that like, you know,
35:59
that moment when you find out that you're pregnant, like for a
36:02
lot of people, that's a very pivotal life changing moment
36:05
because everything changes how you think, how you perceive, how
36:09
you plan, how you feel, how you carry yourself, Everything
36:11
changes and and that is all no normal and OK, right.
36:15
And I think that like, it's, I think it is important for us to
36:21
be aware and be like, OK, well, I would like someone to follow
36:25
me through my pregnancy. So like being, I think the
36:28
biggest thing is being proactive.
36:30
And I think I say that because our healthcare landscape is
36:33
currently at a place where like, to be honest, like our
36:37
Healthcare is just more reactive than it is proactive.
36:41
So if you wait because you think that, oh, I thought the standard
36:45
is that my doctor is going to call me or that, you know, they
36:48
will send me for this or that they will tell me what to do.
36:52
Yes, that is probably the standard.
36:54
But you know, you might be the one falling through the cracks
36:56
and we don't want that. And so I think my biggest
36:59
encouragement for anyone out there who is kind of like in
37:01
this journey of like motherhood or like just navigating the
37:04
healthcare in general, I think you need to be the proactive
37:08
person. You need to be the one where
37:10
you're like, OK, I'm ready to do a little bit of hard work.
37:12
You don't need to know everything because we don't
37:14
expect you to. You didn't go to Med school, you
37:16
didn't go to nursing school, You don't work in the healthcare
37:19
like system. And so therefore, I don't expect
37:21
you to know everything. But what you can do is get
37:25
connected to people who do know, so you can get connected to Baby
37:28
Bean. They're like, that's literally
37:29
my job. My job is to make sure that you
37:32
know how to articulate your medical needs and you know how
37:34
to advocate for yourself. And ultimately, we work together
37:37
to make sure that you are connected to the right
37:39
resources. And then I think it's more so
37:43
just like being willing to, you know, maybe kind of like test
37:49
the waters and being able to be like, OK, this doctor said no,
37:53
but why? Why are they saying no?
37:55
Like I'm asking for, you know, just a repeat blood work or like
37:58
I'm asking for this diagnostic testing.
38:02
Why are they saying no? Or why are they saying yes?
38:04
Like, I think it's just being a little bit more critical in your
38:07
thinking. Again, I don't expect you to
38:09
know everything because you don't go through the training
38:11
and you don't work in the environment.
38:13
But I think there is a huge part of our current healthcare
38:17
landscape where, like, I think it's easy for people to just
38:20
take whatever answer that is given to them and just roll with
38:23
it. But I think sometimes,
38:25
especially if it's your own health or that of your children,
38:29
I think that I always encourage people that, you know, you are
38:32
your biggest advocate. You are your child's voice,
38:34
right? And so it's up to you to be a
38:37
bit more proactive and ask the questions.
38:39
And it's OK to be honest. Like most healthcare
38:42
professionals are not offended if you ask for a second opinion
38:45
or if you just ask for clarification or if you're like,
38:48
I have no idea what you're talking about.
38:49
Can you dumb it down for me and just like tell me what you're
38:52
trying to say because I'm a stressed out mom and I don't
38:54
understand what you're telling me about my child or my
38:57
pregnancy. Totally.
38:58
I would always ask by providers like, oh, I had a midwife the
39:02
first time, which then turned into an OB and an OB the second
39:04
time. And I remember often asking
39:06
like, OK, what's my next step? And who's doing that?
39:09
I like that would be like my corporate girly hat on, right?
39:11
I'd be like, OK, end of a meeting.
39:13
What are the takeaways with the next steps?
39:14
Who's doing what? Because sometimes I remember
39:17
like my brain was like kind of turning to mush, like the
39:19
hormones were going through and I was like, yeah, this is cool.
39:22
I feel good, but honestly, it was quite hard for me to
39:25
remember a lot of things. And so I remember being like,
39:27
OK, just to clarify, I'm taking this printed requisition and
39:33
taking it here. They're like, no, we're faxing
39:35
that. This is just an FYI.
39:37
I'm like, OK, and I'm calling to book the they're like, no,
39:40
they're going to call you OK, Or even just like, OK, what's the
39:44
next step? Like what's or what question
39:46
should I be asking now or what's my what's my next?
39:49
Like those are I don't know. This is just as someone who is
39:52
like really needs things to like be like spelled out.
39:54
I need step by step and I need to like do the thing that day.
39:57
If I get a requisition and I'm like, hey, I need to call.
40:00
I have to call that day or I'm gonna forget.
40:01
So for me, I found that personally helpful to be like,
40:03
OK, this is this is my next step.
40:06
But I think your advice around. Asking questions, advocating is
40:11
just, it's just such good advice in life, but especially when it
40:15
comes to babies, especially when it comes to, you know, somebody
40:18
who is going through a loss when there are options.
40:20
And I can only imagine that gets really overwhelming when there's
40:23
a lot of different options. It is.
40:25
And, and I think like ultimately the work that I do at Baby Bean,
40:29
ultimately I think it's, it's essentially I connect to a
40:32
client so that we can preemptively talk about what
40:36
they're going to talk about. And it's not to be repetitive,
40:39
but it's more so like, let me prep you so that when you go in
40:43
and talk to your provider, you know exactly what to ask for,
40:46
you know how to ask for it and you know why you're asking for
40:49
it. And like, I think it's like you
40:51
said, it's like sometimes we just like, especially in
40:54
pregnancy, we just need to checklist.
40:56
It's like check, check, check. What's my next step 123 OK, easy
41:00
bite size, tangible. Got it.
41:02
And I think that that was what was missing for me when I was
41:05
going through like pregnancy after loss or going through my
41:09
losses. Like it was just like, what do I
41:11
do next? OK, wait, so again, like, OK,
41:13
you want me to take this requisition?
41:15
Oh, no, no, no. Oh, oh, you're faxing it.
41:16
OK wait like who do I book with? The faxing God.
41:20
God, it can be so confusing. And then oftentimes, like I know
41:23
for my journey, I was, I was referred to a couple of
41:26
different specialists. And so I remember being like
41:30
being told that, OK, so so you know, you finally met, you know,
41:33
this criteria because you've had this many losses.
41:36
And therefore, and like I had to wait until I had this many
41:39
losses before I met a criteria like what is this?
41:42
But I remember being told that, OK, now you're being referred
41:45
to, you know, this clinic for this specialty and then that was
41:48
it. But there was like no follow up
41:50
and there was nobody being like, and they will call you or we
41:53
will call you or you have to call them.
41:55
It was just like, yeah, you're referred.
41:59
And this. Isn't like an alarm bell.
42:00
Maybe you were at the time, but maybe if you were a nurse, maybe
42:02
they would. You would have been like, holy,
42:04
like if that was me, I would have been like, wait, what?
42:05
Now I'm going to a specialist. Do I have something wrong?
42:08
You know, you're escalating when really they're like, no, you
42:10
just meet the criteria because you had three losses.
42:12
It's just black and white to them, but to you you're like, Oh
42:15
my gosh, it's something wrong with me.
42:17
Exactly. And and like there's, there's
42:20
oftentimes it's just that I think it's the communication
42:22
piece that's often missing and it's the education piece, right?
42:25
Like as a patient, I want you to tell me, teach me, like educate
42:29
me because I don't know. But as a nurse, I'm like, oh, I
42:31
guess I could figure this out myself, but I really don't want
42:34
to cause I'm still a patient. Yes.
42:36
And, and I think that that's the biggest piece, right?
42:38
It's like, OK, so now like, is it on me to follow up on my
42:42
referrals? And like, why am I getting this
42:44
referral? And like, what am I supposed to
42:46
say to the specialist when I do see them?
42:48
Like what, what's the relevance of this referral even in this
42:52
grand scheme of things? Like why am I there?
42:54
And so I think that a lot of that is the invisible mental
42:58
load and the stress that women and families go through when,
43:02
when you are a working parent, when you are growing your
43:04
family, when you have young children at home and you're
43:07
trying to navigate the healthcare, I think they all tie
43:09
in so closely. And so I think that that's the
43:12
biggest thing that maybe being is here for is that we like our
43:16
primary focus is on families who are going through loss,
43:19
pregnancy after loss or birth trauma.
43:20
But I also do have a handful of clients who as life grows, we
43:25
grow with them. And so now they have young kids.
43:28
So we've watched, I've walked alongside of them as they were
43:31
going through their pregnancies, going through their losses and
43:33
going through, you know, the early stages of having a little
43:36
baby at home. And now they have young kids.
43:39
And now it's like, how do we navigate the healthcare system
43:41
with our children? Like, yeah, how do we give?
43:45
Like, who do we give priority to?
43:47
What do we do? My son may have, you know, a
43:49
food allergy and then my daughter might have, you know,
43:53
XYZ. Like, how do I go about with all
43:55
of the referrals? Like, what do I ask?
43:57
And so again, Baby Bean is here. So that ultimately my goal is to
44:00
help families navigate the healthcare system.
44:03
And especially for those who are working, because you don't have
44:06
the time, you don't have the capacity to figure it out.
44:09
Like you're juggling between your calls and then you're like
44:11
trying to like be on hold at the doctor's office.
44:14
And then you're trying to book in the day.
44:15
And then you realize, oh, nobody can take the child to the
44:17
appointment. Like, what do you do?
44:19
It's it's a constant battle. And so my role is to come in and
44:23
hopefully relieve a bit of that stress and that pressure and
44:26
help parents and families understand what they're doing
44:30
and why they're doing it. It is the coolest.
44:34
I'm sorry this business has to exist, but I am so grateful that
44:39
it does and that you created it is what a phenomenal solution to
44:44
a reality. It's reality, it is life.
44:47
It is our system. For better or for what?
44:49
First, there's a lot of good and there's some gaps and you're
44:52
like, OK, great. Let me hold your hand in this
44:54
and I thank you for that. That's such a beautiful work you
44:57
do today, Wednesday, October 15th, the day this comes out is
45:01
Pregnancy and Infant Loss Remembrance Day.
45:03
Could you tell us a bit more about the about this day, what
45:07
this day means, what it means to you?
45:09
Yeah, I mean, it's, I'm sure it has its own history, but yeah.
45:14
And and I guess in the world of bereaved parenthood, October is
45:19
is quite a significant month because here in BC we have a
45:23
wonderful organization called the Butterfly Support Network.
45:25
And so there are nonprofit and they host a memorial run every
45:29
October for families who have lost babies.
45:32
And so, so that takes part in October.
45:35
And then on October 15th is like a National Pregnancy and Infant
45:40
Loss Awareness Day. And for those of those of us who
45:44
might not be in this, this corner of the world, it's, it's
45:49
quite common for bereaved families to light a candle to
45:53
remember their little ones. And so on October 15th,
45:56
oftentimes at 7:00 PM across across the nation, you, you
46:02
might see some Instagram stories or like people posting about
46:05
lighting a candle for their babies who have gone home too
46:07
soon. And that's the reason behind it.
46:09
It's because it's it's a collective time for us as a
46:12
community to remember not just our own babies who may have left
46:16
you early, but also those like in our community.
46:19
And there are there are like different memorial like
46:23
activities in different cities that that help us commemorate
46:28
and remember the baby's gone too soon.
46:30
But but yeah, so it is a very special day and like a very
46:36
like, I guess like a it's a bittersweet day for a lot of
46:40
families. Well, I am sending love to you
46:43
this October 15th every day, but this specifically this day
46:47
remembering your three babies and anyone listening who has
46:52
babies who are not earth side. We are thinking of you and we
46:55
are sending so much love to all those babies who are having
47:01
snacks together for sure. So much probably.
47:04
Probably goldfish, let's be honest.
47:05
It's always goldfish, absolutely.
47:10
Yeah. Before I leave you, what is
47:12
something that you would say you're trying to figure out
47:15
right now because we don't have it all figured out.
47:18
We did not have it all figured out.
47:21
I think as a mom, a working mom and like a business owner, I
47:29
think I am constantly trying to figure out like the next season
47:35
that my children are about to go through.
47:38
I have a little Gray 2 kid and I have a, I have a preschool kid.
47:44
And so I think like, I think I'm trying to navigate and figure
47:48
out like I have this passion that I have for my business and
47:51
I love it and it is, it is my heart and my soul.
47:55
But then again, it's like my, my physical children who I love so
47:58
dearly. And how do I want to be present
48:00
in their lives? And how do I balance all of it?
48:02
And I think what I'm trying to figure out is how do I, I want
48:07
to figure out how I can be present for my clients and for
48:10
my business, but also stay true to, to what my heart truly
48:15
desires, which is, you know, to be present and to like mother of
48:18
my children. And so I, I guess it's, it's a
48:22
pretty standard answer in the sense of like, you know, any
48:25
working parent is probably trying to figure out how to
48:27
balance, you know, being a good parent and then, you know, being
48:31
a good business owner or being a good like employee or whatever
48:34
role you're in. And I think that like I, I have
48:38
a strong desire to want to show my children that I value doing
48:43
something that I love because I, my hopes for my children is that
48:48
they would grow up to pursue something that they love, that
48:51
they would work and that their career would take them to new
48:54
heights in a sense of like they would be able to discover who
48:57
they are and what their passions are in pursue that.
49:00
And so I think that I'm trying to live that by example.
49:03
And, and, and it will bring super honest.
49:05
And Angie, I'm sure you understand this, but as an
49:07
entrepreneur, there are days when I, when I hate this.
49:09
It's so hard and it is so challenging.
49:12
And it is not like not a single moment of my business venture is
49:17
in my nursing training. I have not an ounce of business
49:20
training at all. I am a nurse and I find that
49:22
like it can be really challenging.
49:24
But again, I think like I kind of alluded to earlier on in the
49:28
episode, I, I want to teach my children that we can do hard
49:31
things. And so that's what I'm trying to
49:33
figure out. Yeah.
49:34
I mean, I have a ton of business training and it's really hard.
49:39
50 nursing training, a lot of business training.
49:41
It's so hard, but I don't mean to make light.
49:44
That is so beautiful. I want to thank you so much for
49:47
coming on. Where can everybody find you?
49:49
We put everything in the show notes, but just verbally get it
49:52
out there. Well, you can find me on my
49:54
website, maybebeingconsulting.ca.
49:57
We are on Instagram so you can just search for us.
50:00
Baby being consulting. I'm on LinkedIn, so shoot me a
50:03
message on LinkedIn if you want. And I'm sure in the show notes
50:06
you can also find my e-mail, my contact number if you're local.
50:09
But yeah, I would love to get connected to anyone who is
50:13
either in this season of parenthood or just have
50:15
questions or just, you know, you need a nurse to talk to.
50:18
Here I am. Perfect.
50:20
And do you speak with people outside of the British Columbia
50:23
province? Do you speak with people in
50:24
other countries? How does that?
50:26
Work really, so within British Columbia, I work as a registered
50:30
nurse. So then so it's, it's
50:32
essentially for those, if you have, you know, insurance
50:34
coverage, you can bill it through insurance in BC.
50:37
And for those who are outside of the province or outside of the
50:40
country, absolutely we can still connect.
50:42
And I essentially just connect with you as a consultant.
50:44
And so that is totally doable. And I would love to connect with
50:49
anyone, anywhere who's listening in on our episode today.
50:52
Thank you so much Angel. You are your name.
50:54
You are an Angel. I so appreciate your openness,
50:57
honesty, sharing your story, and thank you for honoring those who
51:02
might not feel necessarily seen or heard in this in this space.
51:08
Thank you so much for having me. It was such a wonderful,
51:10
wonderful just chat together and I really love it.
51:14
Thank you. Thanks Angel.
51:19
Thank you so much for listening and since you made it this far,
51:22
please share this episode with a fellow parent who you love,
51:25
respect, and want to support. And while you're at it, hit me
51:29
up on Instagram at All Figured Out.
51:31
Andrea, I would love to meet you and hear what you are trying to
51:34
figure out these days.