Latest / Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement / Special Edition- "Uvalde...through the eyes of Juan Maldonado"

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Special Edition- "Uvalde...through the eyes of Juan Maldonado" · Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement

0:24
SPEAKER_01: Hey everybody, it's Clint McNear with TMPA Blue Grit Podcast.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: Back with uh Tyler Owen, co-host.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: What's going on, guys?
0:35
SPEAKER_01: Um we've got uh uh guest co-host, Mike Gomez, field services supervisor.
0:42
SPEAKER_02: How's everybody doing?
0:43
SPEAKER_01: Mikey the chef.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: The chef.
0:46
SPEAKER_00: I'm never gonna live that down.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely.
0:49
SPEAKER_00: No, you're not.
0:50
SPEAKER_00: You're you're a good cook, what can I say?
0:52
SPEAKER_01: We've got a we've had some heavy episodes in the past, um, and we've got another one again today.
0:58
SPEAKER_01: Um you may have some tissue on standby because I'm probably gonna need it as well.
1:04
SPEAKER_01: Um it's a story that's kind of been on the national radar and the Texas radar and emotional subject.
1:13
SPEAKER_01: Uh and we're talking today about uh the Uvaldi shooting um in the terror that was rained down that day um on somebody with evil in their heart.
1:26
SPEAKER_01: Um and our guest today is uh Juan Maldonado, uh, who is a sergeant with DPS on that day.
1:34
SPEAKER_00: How y'all doing, guys?
1:36
SPEAKER_01: Glad you're here, man.
1:37
SPEAKER_01: Glad you're here.
1:37
SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Juan.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: Before we get dive into it, uh be sure to hit that subscribe button uh and and download our podcast.
1:45
SPEAKER_00: It helps us out, lets us know that the content we're pushing out is you know, is good stuff, and you guys uh want to continue to hear this these kind of episodes.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: So go ahead and hit that like button and uh download these episodes and and subscribe.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: Before we kick off, a little bit about uh Tosu Juan is where were you born and um where'd you grow up?
2:07
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
2:07
SPEAKER_03: Uh I was born down in Harlingen, which is down in the Rio Grande Valley.
2:11
SPEAKER_03: I lived in Rainville all my life, born and raised, went to high school there, graduated in 1989, went and served almost five years in the United States Navy.
2:19
SPEAKER_03: Nice after the Navy.
2:21
SPEAKER_03: Um I've always wanted to be in law enforcement, it's always been a dream of mine.
2:26
SPEAKER_03: Became a law enforcement there in uh in Willese County as a deputy, and then Mike recruited me over to the Rainville Police Department.
2:33
SPEAKER_03: So I transferred over to the Rainville Police Department.
2:36
SPEAKER_03: Never follow Mike.
2:38
SPEAKER_02: No, I was just a stepping stone, brothers.
2:40
SPEAKER_02: That's all it was.
2:41
SPEAKER_03: I had a goal, I had a vision.
2:44
SPEAKER_03: So um in uh 1998, I was accepted to the Texas Department Public Safety DPS Academy, and that was one of my dreams.
2:53
SPEAKER_03: So I succeeded, graduated in 1989, I'll crush in 1999 from the DPS Academy, and uh how many years you were Willsee County and Raymondville, Petey?
3:04
SPEAKER_01: Uh almost five years in with both.
3:06
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: So about five years on when you went to the academy?
3:09
SPEAKER_01: Yes, sir.
3:09
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: But how old were you when you hit the academy?
3:12
SPEAKER_03: 27, 28 years old.
3:13
SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
3:14
SPEAKER_01: Yes, sir.
3:15
SPEAKER_01: Not a super young guy going through it.
3:17
SPEAKER_03: Correct.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: Was that was that uh were you kind of the middle age or the uh middle of the road for your academy class, or was it generally, you know, buried 22, 23, 24 year olds?
3:26
SPEAKER_00: And then what was the age difference in in your academy in your DPS Academy?
3:29
SPEAKER_00: Because I've heard I hear stories all the time.
3:30
SPEAKER_03: Oh, we had different ages.
3:32
SPEAKER_03: I mean, we have from young to we had one guy in the 50s.
3:34
SPEAKER_03: Oh wow.
3:35
SPEAKER_00: Oh, what's no kidding?
3:36
SPEAKER_00: That's not old.
3:38
SPEAKER_01: I'm 50 now.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm getting I'm getting up there myself.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: I'm probably 15.
3:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm not getting through the DPS Academy.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh went through the academy and and everybody knows they run a pretty tight ship and a really good academy.
3:50
SPEAKER_01: Uh first gig.
3:53
SPEAKER_03: Yes, uh, when I graduated from the academy, I was uh fortunate to go to Raymondville.
3:57
SPEAKER_03: Oh, stationed in Raymondville back home.
4:00
SPEAKER_03: Um was married and then uh transferred to Uvalde County.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: When did you go to Uvalde?
4:06
SPEAKER_03: Well, actually, I went to Zavalda County and then moved over to Uvalde County.
4:08
SPEAKER_03: So I've been in Uvalde over 20 years.
4:10
SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
4:11
SPEAKER_01: And that's where you call home and where all your Yes sir.
4:14
SPEAKER_03: Uvaldi is home for me.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: Your circle and your people, that's your people there.
4:18
SPEAKER_03: Yes, sir.
4:20
SPEAKER_01: Um in your your tenure in DPS, tell us a little bit about that.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: We know everybody starts out as a trooper and running up and down the highway, but you had residual duties and uh tell us a little bit about your service there.
4:35
SPEAKER_03: Yes, sir.
4:35
SPEAKER_03: I had a great time as a state trooper.
4:37
SPEAKER_03: I did uh 12 years in um as a as a trooper.
4:42
SPEAKER_03: I promoted in 2012 as a sergeant uh for Highway Patrol, went to Eagle Pass, was my uh first sergeant supervisor duty, uh spent over five years there in Eagle Pass, which I enjoyed it, had great, great troopers down there.
4:57
SPEAKER_03: Went down to Crystal City, uh transferred over to Crystal City, uh, was a trooper, uh correction, a sergeant there for four years.
5:05
SPEAKER_03: Um with the operation surge going on.
5:09
SPEAKER_03: Uh they opened up a public information officer slot in in our district.
5:14
SPEAKER_03: So I applied it and uh I got the public information slot.
5:18
SPEAKER_03: And that was always been a dream of mine to join the liaison where I can you know distribute information out to educate children, yeah, and put out the good work that the troopers did.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: So public information officer role was being a professional representative of the agency plus the public interaction with media and schools or kids and things like that.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
5:42
SPEAKER_01: Um and then there was a you were a PIO for a good period and you were also involved in peer support, is that right?
5:50
SPEAKER_03: Well, became before uh um several years back, I was a uh peer support for other agencies for our department, and um I I got to experience you know different tragic events that other officers encountered and able to walk through there, talk to them with the events, you know, kept it confidential, and so on.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: And for our listeners, peer support is uh a member of law enforcement being there um with some peer support training to help peers either in their own agency or another agency who have been involved in a crisis or gone through a crisis or been in a shooting or rolled up on an accident with you know children seized or things like that.
6:35
SPEAKER_01: Is that right?
6:36
SPEAKER_03: Yes, sir.
6:36
SPEAKER_03: Any anything that um they're having trouble with, you know, there's uh we're there to help them and guide them.
6:44
SPEAKER_01: And as peer support, you always sat on the side of trying to help somebody in crisis, right?
6:48
SPEAKER_01: Yes, sir.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: Okay, and that's that's been DPS has always been kind of involved in that for I mean, I'm when you you know when the peer support program began with DPS, or has it always been kind of there?
6:59
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I don't recall when it first began, but I know when I heard about it.
7:04
SPEAKER_03: I you wanted to be involved.
7:05
SPEAKER_03: Yes, sir.
7:05
SPEAKER_03: Quickly volunteered and went to attend some classes.
7:08
SPEAKER_03: Completely under peer support, yes sir.
7:10
SPEAKER_02: Now, you also did some other things with DPS having to do with reconstruction?
7:17
SPEAKER_03: Yes, I was on the uh crash team for our district, and when I promoted supervisor, I also became the uh district team leader for our district on investigating crash investigations for um fatalities or fleet investigations.
7:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
7:31
SPEAKER_01: And was it your role as peer support or PIO when you got some of your accommodation, your um awards for your for your good work there?
7:41
SPEAKER_03: Was that I was actually a trooper.
7:43
SPEAKER_03: Uh I got the uh regional commander award back in, I believe in 2011 or so, I got the uh regional commander award for our area.
7:51
SPEAKER_01: Nice, nice.
7:52
SPEAKER_01: Good stuff.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: So moving forward, um, and folks that aren't in law enforcement watching this, there is local law enforcement being municipal uh cities, there's sheriff's departments, which may have several municipalities within there uh within that.
8:14
SPEAKER_01: So you have you start small with a municipality, then you have a county, then you have the state police.
8:20
SPEAKER_01: But even with all of those jurisdictions, um if a sheriff's deputy rolls up into Austin, they don't necessarily take over or take over a scene, vice versa.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: Or DPS pulls up to a scene, is not necessarily uh there's a respect as far as jurisdiction and authority uh at a scene.
8:42
SPEAKER_01: Is that would that be fair?
8:44
SPEAKER_01: Yes, sir.
8:45
SPEAKER_01: So like I'm retired from Garland, and if if we were working a shooting or at a scene, DPS or the Sheriff's Department wouldn't just come over and take our scene over from us.
8:55
SPEAKER_01: But wouldn't come take it over.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: And federal.
8:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, federal agencies too.
8:59
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
9:00
SPEAKER_01: Um and so uh leading up to um May of uh 2022, just kind of walk us through and tell us how that came about for you in your words.
9:17
SPEAKER_03: Well that day, uh I believe it was on a Tuesday morning, um or Tuesday mid-morning.
9:24
SPEAKER_03: I was at my office and uh my friend was in the office and I heard over the radio that you know there were shots fired at the school.
9:34
SPEAKER_03: We responded, arrived on scene, uh, saw the the vehicle in question, um, slow down to make sure that you know there was no one around it.
9:48
SPEAKER_03: I proceeded to the parking lot, and um from there I radioed, gave the information out, told them that we uh sent all available troopers to the area that we're at, and then I went to retrieve my weapon from the rear of my vehicle.
10:06
SPEAKER_03: And what was that initial call you got that you heard over the radio?
10:10
SPEAKER_03: Shots fired at the school.
10:13
SPEAKER_03: Yes, sir.
10:14
SPEAKER_01: And so when you show up, shots fired, your first thought is probably I need the right equipment.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: So you go to the rear of your vehicle to try and get the right equipment for the situation that you may face.
10:27
SPEAKER_03: Yes, sir.
10:27
SPEAKER_03: I have my R-15 in the back and then my tactical vest as well.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: So you gear up and then tell tell us what what you did or or what occurred then.
10:36
SPEAKER_03: Well, I went back to the vehicle, geared up, uh seemed like I was trying to do everything pretty quick.
10:43
SPEAKER_03: Went back into the vehicle, radioed again, you know, to make sure that communications heard that we needed more assistance.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: Do you recall what you told them?
10:52
SPEAKER_03: Do you recall what you may have said?
10:55
SPEAKER_03: I believe I told them that uh, you know, shots fired at Ralph Elementary, send all available troopers to to the location.
11:01
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: And then uh And you're communicating with your DPS communications, yes, sir, not the sheriff's department.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: And so for our listeners out there, your state troopers and rule settings, uh, it's not uncommon for you guys to have to bounce back and forth of using county SO or DPS communications, and y'all's DPS communications is a regional dispatch center.
11:24
SPEAKER_00: And so when you say going back to the vehicle, you're making sure that DPS Communications knows what's going on on the ground and that you need at most all troopers in your area to report there through your DP for through DPS dispatch.
11:36
SPEAKER_03: Yes, sir, because they they could communicate through a channel through all for all the the troopers to respond from that you know channel.
11:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
11:45
SPEAKER_01: All right.
11:46
SPEAKER_03: So I proceeded to the west end of Rob Elementary of the Wing in question.
11:54
SPEAKER_03: And the when I got there, I could see when I ran, I could see bystanders approaching the school, which is safety.
12:03
SPEAKER_03: I was thinking safety.
12:04
SPEAKER_03: So as I saw the people inside the officers inside the school, my mind I said they start setting up a perimeter for to protect these other people in case something else happens.
12:14
SPEAKER_03: Because I had one, I had no idea where the shooter was exactly or where um you know the event was occurring at.
12:22
SPEAKER_03: I just know that there was people in the hallway, so I proceeded to set up a perimeter on the outside.
12:26
SPEAKER_02: You didn't even know there was more than one shooter at that time.
12:29
SPEAKER_03: No, I I didn't know.
12:30
SPEAKER_03: I just know that there were shots fired at the Rob Elementary School.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: And you had indicated at one point that you were aware there was officers already there that had arrived prior to you, is that right?
12:43
SPEAKER_01: Yes, sir.
12:43
SPEAKER_01: I believe so, yes, sir.
12:45
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
12:46
SPEAKER_03: So you want to kind of have perimeter in mind?
12:49
SPEAKER_03: I had perimeter, of course, safety for those people that were across the street yelling because I believe the shooter later I learned that the shooter was shooting at them as well.
12:58
SPEAKER_03: I had no idea.
13:00
SPEAKER_03: Um after that, as I radioed um for EMS to start setting a perimeter, or not perimeter, but to to uh stage.
13:10
SPEAKER_03: We needed EMS personnel to stage.
13:12
SPEAKER_03: As officers got there, I tried to direct them to to um you know set a perimeter, send people also to the south end.
13:19
SPEAKER_03: Um I did that.
13:21
SPEAKER_01: Also during this time, there's a lot of information that's vague to me that I don't I don't recall uh due to the to the tragic situation, but what I do recall is for our listeners, it's critical critical incident amnesia, which is not uncommon after an extremely high stress situation.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: People just don't recall event events as they play out, so it's not uncommon.
13:48
SPEAKER_01: Yes, sir.
13:49
SPEAKER_03: And um so I saw uh I walked toward her south end, there was a lady that was shot, so I grabbed her, she was wounded, and I walked her to the all the way to the north end, you know, to get medical treatment.
14:06
SPEAKER_03: So that was paramount that I get her medical treatment because you know, you know, she needed medical help.
14:11
SPEAKER_03: Got her there, went back towards the West End.
14:14
SPEAKER_03: I know at one point I went back into the building to give them some keys.
14:18
SPEAKER_03: I don't know when it was because I don't rem recall when.
14:21
SPEAKER_03: Um, I know I went in there briefly, came back out, then uh I saw officers on the south end rescuing kids.
14:31
SPEAKER_03: So I started in the north end, I busted out a window with my aspeton, um, put my tactical vest over the window, try to open it, and as the kids were jumping out, you know, they were frightened.
14:43
SPEAKER_03: That's a look that you know I'll never forget.
14:46
SPEAKER_03: Uh we finally opened up the window completely, uh vacated the classroom, and uh the last person to go was a teacher.
14:56
SPEAKER_03: So I was able to lift her out the window.
15:01
SPEAKER_03: And where they went from there, I don't know.
15:03
SPEAKER_03: My goal was just to get them out as quick as I could uh because I know that we're close to the area where the shooter was.
15:09
SPEAKER_03: So from there, I went toward back toward the south end of the wing.
15:16
SPEAKER_03: Went in into the south entrance, and that's where I was kneeling down to see where where the classroom was exactly was.
15:24
SPEAKER_03: I'm not really familiarized with which classroom it was.
15:28
SPEAKER_03: Um I then heard, you know, don't send a unit in because we're still vacating kids from the east side of the wing.
15:36
SPEAKER_03: So I walked right back out, and at that time I laid down and you know to see if I can get an angle in the building, and I saw um little feet running behind me.
15:46
SPEAKER_03: Of course, I started thinking of you know my best friend and who else was in the building or in the classroom.
15:54
SPEAKER_03: Um from there I got back up and I could see a tree.
16:00
SPEAKER_03: I said, you know what?
16:01
SPEAKER_03: There's these officers are parallel.
16:04
SPEAKER_03: If the shooter was to jump out the window, I can take him out.
16:07
SPEAKER_03: So I ran to the tree in a tactical prone position, and I had an angle at him in case he jumped out the window.
16:14
SPEAKER_03: I said, I'll take him out from there.
16:16
SPEAKER_03: Because there was enough people in the hallways, they didn't need me in the hallway.
16:19
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I spent time there.
16:22
SPEAKER_03: I heard shots fired.
16:23
SPEAKER_03: That was the end of it, ran to the south end.
16:25
SPEAKER_03: There was an agent, federal agent coming out in plain clothes that I recall.
16:33
SPEAKER_03: I grabbed him.
16:34
SPEAKER_03: I know that he had a um a hat that was you know had a hole in it from the the round.
16:41
SPEAKER_03: He'd taken a shot to the head.
16:42
SPEAKER_03: I believe so, sir.
16:43
SPEAKER_03: So I took care of him to the north end and got him medical treatment.
16:47
SPEAKER_03: Came back in um and um went into the west end.
17:00
SPEAKER_03: Saw something I never want to see again.
17:04
SPEAKER_03: Was able to grab the my best friend assist, grabbed her out, appried medical attention to her, and I stayed with her to the end, and then you know, I never returned back.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: You evacuated her out of the building?
17:22
SPEAKER_03: Assisted, yes, sir.
17:24
SPEAKER_01: And you mentioned best friend.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: This is her and her husband were personal, I mean, like brother and sister friends.
17:33
SPEAKER_01: You spent weekends together and had just spent the weekend together and yeah, just a few days.
17:38
SPEAKER_03: A few days that uh that weekend prior, we were spending the weekend together.
17:43
SPEAKER_03: We spent a lot of days together, especially during the pandemic.
17:46
SPEAKER_00: And she was a tea a teacher.
17:48
SPEAKER_03: Yes, sir.
17:49
SPEAKER_03: She was one of the heroes that were lost that day.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: And you said you you assisted in getting her out and you assisted in trying to provide medical care to her as well.
18:02
SPEAKER_01: Is that right?
18:03
SPEAKER_03: Yes, sir.
18:04
SPEAKER_03: Sir, I was uh one of them that provided CPR.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: To back up a minute, you mentioned that when you looked down the hall, you saw people in the hall.
18:20
SPEAKER_01: It's been reported that there was 300 to 60 or 380 law enforcement personnel out there.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: 380 people can't get in a hallway or can't clear a building.
18:36
SPEAKER_01: You wouldn't have three hundred and sixty people in a stack.
18:40
SPEAKER_01: And so it takes a queen to run a hive, and then you have worker bees and you have people doing other things.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: And it was your role or was your perception of what you were doing?
18:55
SPEAKER_01: You said you looked in and saw a people or a stack in the hall, and it sounds like you were evacuating kids and uh saving some trying to save some teachers and come across one of your best friends in the world injured, try to save her.
19:11
SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't as if you were just kind of standing around wondering, wow, this is there's nothing going on.
19:17
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you you were actively trying to be a first responder and extract kids out of the building.
19:25
SPEAKER_01: And um, was that your perceived role?
19:28
SPEAKER_01: Because clearly 380 officers can't get into a building and get in a stack.
19:32
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you're not gonna have a stack of officers 100 yards long.
19:36
SPEAKER_03: I know that uh saying that number, I I don't recall ever seeing that many officers there.
19:41
SPEAKER_03: I I do recall that I wanted to do as much as I could possibly, you know, to help anyone that I could.
19:47
SPEAKER_03: Uh, I know every officer agency had a different role that they were doing, but as to their content of what they were doing, I have no idea.
19:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, no, no.
19:58
SPEAKER_03: But I'm saying but I don't recall seeing that many officers there that day.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: Right.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: But you you had mentioned you looked down the hall and saw saw folks or saw a stack, and you can't you you're not gonna have 40 people go stand in the hall or stack.
20:11
SPEAKER_01: And is that was that your mindset of while I'll just keep evacuating and triaging and grabbing the kids that I can out or Yes, sir.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: Was that your perception, I guess, or kind of your mind frame?
20:23
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
20:24
SPEAKER_03: I I wanted to keep myself busy.
20:26
SPEAKER_03: Um everything was happening so fast for me.
20:29
SPEAKER_03: Uh I was doing what my mind was telling me to do, and I kept on going.
20:34
SPEAKER_01: And guessing it's probably a stupid question.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: You've never been through anything like that before.
20:38
SPEAKER_01: No, sir.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: Had there been any training?
20:41
SPEAKER_00: Uh I know that, you know, and and Colin Mine was our it was probably the first time that we had really started looking at you know active shooter training and that for that aspect.
20:50
SPEAKER_00: But as far as the Givaldi area, um was there a lot of training at that specific school prior to this incident?
20:56
SPEAKER_03: For me, no, sir.
20:59
SPEAKER_03: I can't uh test what if anybody else had I actually alert training there in that area or not.
21:04
SPEAKER_00: But you and your troops, you were command over how many, I'm not sure how many troopers you were, the sergeant over.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: What did that what?
21:11
SPEAKER_00: 10?
21:11
SPEAKER_03: Yes, sir.
21:12
SPEAKER_00: Um y'all had never done any training at really probably any area uh elementary schools.
21:18
SPEAKER_00: It was probably just a general, probably closed down prior to this.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: We that's what we used was was closed down schools for area law enforcement.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: Uh so you guys haven't never ran a drill in that area?
21:29
SPEAKER_03: No, sir.
21:30
SPEAKER_03: I I never personally did in that area.
21:32
SPEAKER_01: Yes, sir.
21:32
SPEAKER_01: Well, and for context of listeners, we have listeners in other countries and across the states.
21:38
SPEAKER_01: Y'all's focus for the last several years has been the border and having to augment our federal officers at the border.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: And so um municipal type enforcement and and being involved in an um city setting.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Had not been the focus probably for what three or four years.
22:03
SPEAKER_01: There had been a surge at the border, and I know troopers from even the panhandling in Amarillo are having to go to the border like every three weeks.
22:11
SPEAKER_01: And not saying right or wrong, but I would imagine that was y'all's mission focus for a period, wasn't it?
22:18
SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah.
22:18
SPEAKER_03: So I mean we s they currently still have uh different officers down there and at the border working the the operation on there.
22:25
SPEAKER_03: And it's always, you know, been our mission as our department.
22:31
SPEAKER_03: Well, when I work for Texas Department of Public Safety, is to always provide as much assistance you could to other entities, you know, to provide assets or anything that we can do for them.
22:43
SPEAKER_01: Assistance and support, not takeover.
22:45
SPEAKER_03: Correct.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: And this may be a question that you you you may not feel comfortable even asking, or I'm I mean, I mean answering.
22:53
SPEAKER_00: Um while you were doing your duties and trying to establish a perimeter, trying to treat odds patients at the school and doing everything at such a fast pace.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: Do you recall hearing any shots while you were at the school?
23:07
SPEAKER_03: No, I was asked if I've heard shots, and my answer was no, because I don't recall hearing any shots after I got there.
23:15
SPEAKER_03: You know, during during the time frame that this was going on, I never heard any shots until until the end of the incident.
23:23
SPEAKER_02: And that was the uh team moving in.
23:25
SPEAKER_02: Those were the shots you heard.
23:26
SPEAKER_02: Yes, from them.
23:28
SPEAKER_01: Had you been in a critical incident enough prior to this that you've ever suffered auditory exclusion?
23:36
SPEAKER_03: Not like this, sir.
23:37
SPEAKER_03: This is I was when I was asked, and I provided that information that I never heard of it.
23:45
unknown: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
23:45
SPEAKER_01: Well, and it's involuntary.
23:46
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's not as if you can turn your ears on and off.
23:49
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's an involuntary physiological response that your body has, but it's just not something you can control.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: Um and even people who have been in SWAT or been in multiple critical incidents still suffer from you know narrowing of vision, uh, inattentional blindness, and auditory exclusion.
24:10
SPEAKER_01: And so what what you experienced and what you describe is not uncommon.
24:15
SPEAKER_03: Um I know that uh now going through getting help for myself from the incident, I know that PTSD is a real thing.
24:29
SPEAKER_03: So, yes, sir.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: And we want to be fixers as cops.
24:34
SPEAKER_01: We're always wanting to fix and we're never want to be broken.
24:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they always think of us as robots, but we actually, you know, the older and the wiser I've gotten, we're human.
24:44
SPEAKER_03: You know, we have a heart and we we a heartbeat just like everybody else's.
24:48
SPEAKER_01: Oh, and the part of the problem too is I don't ever use the D on PTS because nobody wants to be told they have a disorder.
24:56
SPEAKER_03: Correct.
24:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, nobody wants to be broken or have a disorder.
25:00
SPEAKER_01: And um that causes a lot of people to not want to seek help, and it's a tough pill to swallow when somebody tells you you got PTS 1.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: Um in the and the ironic thing is you as peer support, you always sat in the other chair trying to help someone, um, and probably never thought you would be the one sitting where you are.
25:23
SPEAKER_03: Most definitely, but the good thing about it is I'm being positive about it to try to get help or getting help.
25:31
SPEAKER_03: And I know I'm not the only one out there, you know, suffering through this.
25:37
SPEAKER_03: You know, um a lot of my colleagues are as well.
25:42
SPEAKER_03: Um, and it's not only a local issue, it's a nation issue.
25:48
SPEAKER_03: It's a nationwide issue.
25:50
SPEAKER_03: Somebody that suffers through a something traumatic event, you know, it's it's okay.
25:55
SPEAKER_03: It's okay to go get counseling.
25:57
SPEAKER_03: There's nothing wrong with it.
25:58
SPEAKER_03: It's actually better for you.
25:59
SPEAKER_03: It can save your marriage, it can save your family, it can save you from going into dark places.
26:05
SPEAKER_01: Well, the human body is not built to see trauma every day, all day for a 20-year career, 23-year career.
26:12
SPEAKER_01: The human body and brain is not built to see trauma like that over and over, repeated.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: I know on past shows being clean to talk to several people, and you may have heard the statistics on this.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: The average person actually has has witnessed or been involved in in two what we consider critical instances over their life.
26:31
SPEAKER_00: You know, they've seen a horrific accident while driving down the highway, the loss of a loved one.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: Two public servants, fire, police, military, nursing staffs, doctors, uh I think on average it's around 180 during their career.
26:47
SPEAKER_00: 180.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: So the average citizen is two, and we have 180.
26:52
SPEAKER_00: And I think you coming on here today and and and telling, you know, the PTS side of it, um, you know, it's uh it's remarkable.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: And I can and I I'm I'm I'm proud of it and I'm with you.
27:04
SPEAKER_00: Um as well as everybody else out there, it's okay to not be okay.
27:08
SPEAKER_02: Um you know, you bring bring a good point up.
27:13
SPEAKER_02: You know, in the military, whether you do two years, four years, or a career there, when you're discharged, you have a medical e-val.
27:22
SPEAKER_02: And if you've seen combat or you're suffering from something, you're taken care of after that.
27:30
SPEAKER_02: You're you know, the government's gonna take care of you.
27:33
SPEAKER_02: How many departments in the state of Texas do you think after someone who's seen it day in, day out for 20 years, provide that for their retirees?
27:44
SPEAKER_02: Not a single one that I know of that's gonna provide the insurance afterwards to help them after they've seen this through a whole career.
27:52
SPEAKER_02: Right.
27:57
SPEAKER_01: So after that day, you had to move towards marrying one of your best friends.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: Working through that with her husband, who's your best friend.
28:15
SPEAKER_01: Uh you described her as like a second mom to your daughter.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: Yes, sir.
28:19
SPEAKER_01: Um so you're working through the incident there from on the job, you're working through it personally.
28:25
SPEAKER_01: Um did you think you would be let go?
28:31
SPEAKER_01: Did you think you would be where you are today in the aftermath of of all of that?
28:37
SPEAKER_02: Take us take us to the day they notified you.
28:42
SPEAKER_02: What happened?
28:43
SPEAKER_02: They came to your house.
28:44
SPEAKER_02: How how how did that all that go down?
28:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I guess yeah, how'd you find out that you may this may not go well?
28:52
SPEAKER_03: Well, it was on uh I believe September 6th, the first day of school for Ubaldi.
29:04
SPEAKER_03: Uh I had seen uh information that two troopers were suspended, and I was like, oh wow.
29:13
SPEAKER_03: And about two hours later, I was notified that I was suspended.
29:19
SPEAKER_03: I was shocked because I honestly, you know, to this day feel that I did my best and very best, as was all the other different officers that were on scene, which they all had different roles.
29:33
SPEAKER_03: And um here I am.
29:40
SPEAKER_01: That incident happened in May.
29:45
SPEAKER_01: In July, a policy came out, a directive, an email came out that moving forward, uh DPS staff, when they arrive on scene, have the authority and shall take the scene over.
30:00
SPEAKER_01: They shall take command and take whatever action is needed about two months after the incident occurred.
30:07
SPEAKER_01: Um ultimately you were let go for a policy that didn't exist at the time.
30:16
SPEAKER_01: Um to this day, in light of the email and the policy, that's not DPS's role to take a scene over.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: That's not the Sheriff's Department's role to show up and take someone's scene over.
30:29
SPEAKER_01: Jurisdictions are still are still alive today in light of that.
30:34
SPEAKER_01: Um and I I think it's a horrific tragedy that occurred that day with an immense amount of learning opportunities for law enforcement to take from it.
30:46
SPEAKER_01: Um and there was a there was a lot of loss of life, young life.
30:51
SPEAKER_01: Um But I I think the tragedy was compounded um by some by some events that occurred after that.
31:01
SPEAKER_01: Um you've handled it.
31:05
SPEAKER_01: You've handled it like a king, man.
31:07
SPEAKER_01: Um trying to take care of yourself.
31:11
SPEAKER_01: Um tell us tell us where does Juan go from here?
31:18
SPEAKER_01: Well, what would you share?
31:19
SPEAKER_01: What do you want folks to know about Juan?
31:22
SPEAKER_03: Well, for sure.
31:23
SPEAKER_03: I know I still have a lot to give back to people, families, communities, uh, kids.
31:31
SPEAKER_03: And being here today, it's not about me.
31:38
SPEAKER_03: It's to see and to be able to help someone else, another officer.
31:45
SPEAKER_03: If I can help another officer by telling my story in the future, if they suffer from PTSD, something traumatic in their lives, and if it can be any help to him or her, that that is a message, you know, that you're not alone.
32:04
SPEAKER_03: There's help out there for you, and hopefully your department will support you 110% and get that that counseling, get that help.
32:14
SPEAKER_03: It's not a something, it's not it's confidential, it's not something that's gonna hinder your your future because you know you're trying to help yourself.
32:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:26
SPEAKER_01: That's a great message.
32:28
SPEAKER_01: Still a lot to give, and something else I think it's important for the listeners to hear.
32:33
SPEAKER_01: At that time, um, and state police have a tendency to get moved around a lot.
32:40
SPEAKER_01: But how long had you been in Uvaldi at that time?
32:45
SPEAKER_03: Over 20 years.
32:47
SPEAKER_01: So you weren't just passing through these this wasn't people you didn't know and you didn't there was nothing there, though that's your people, that's that's your home, that's your people.
33:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Uvaldi is a I mean, to this day, Uvaldi is a great community.
33:03
SPEAKER_03: It's it's uh of course, w you know that day is something that would never be forgotten.
33:14
SPEAKER_03: Definitely those heroes will never be forgotten.
33:16
SPEAKER_03: And I'm talking about those 19 children and those two teachers, those are the heroes.
33:26
SPEAKER_03: But Valde is taking small steps, and we'll get through this.
33:38
SPEAKER_01: There's been a lot of people looking to see to find fault, and and that's not uncommon in a horrific tragedy.
33:50
SPEAKER_01: Whether it's on a small scale or something as massive as this, everyone would like answers, everyone would like fault.
33:58
SPEAKER_01: Um what would Juan say is is the where does fault blame lie for this tragedy?
34:11
SPEAKER_03: The fault is the person that committed this horrific crime that took those 19 kids and two teachers.
34:22
SPEAKER_03: That's the person that should be blamed for all this.
34:31
SPEAKER_03: Can we learn from this incident?
34:32
SPEAKER_03: Definitely.
34:34
SPEAKER_03: And I've said it, you know, you can improve any any function, any incident, could be a small party, big festival.
34:42
SPEAKER_03: It can always be improved and learn from you know prior mistakes.
34:48
SPEAKER_01: And that's a great point.
34:50
SPEAKER_01: Literally, every traffic stop, you can look back on in camera and go, you know, I I probably could have approached it a different angle.
34:56
SPEAKER_01: I probably could have handled this family disturbance call better.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: I probably shouldn't have parked that close to the house when I arrived.
35:04
SPEAKER_01: Every incident we have to learn from, we need to do better.
35:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's why law enforcement continues to try and be more professional, try and find better training.
35:17
SPEAKER_01: TMPA today was hosting a two-day force science class trying to ensure that Texas police officers have the most professional training that there are.
35:26
SPEAKER_01: But we're not uh we're not closed-minded to think we can always do it better.
35:30
SPEAKER_03: Always.
35:35
SPEAKER_00: Well, what's the uh I was told this the other day you probably didn't envision your exodus with DPS as as the way it abruptly was.
35:49
SPEAKER_00: So what is what is one what's the next chapter?
35:54
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
35:55
SPEAKER_03: I it's it's hard right now for me.
36:01
SPEAKER_03: Knowing that.
36:14
SPEAKER_03: I can tell you that I love my my job.
36:17
SPEAKER_03: No doubt about it.
36:18
SPEAKER_03: I gave my entire life to it.
36:22
SPEAKER_03: I want to change it because you know I was told I'm a workaholic by my family and I was always doing for a department now that you know that just not longer employed there.
36:45
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
36:46
SPEAKER_03: I I I I'm ready to go back to work though, I'm ready to find a job, I'm ready to um be able to go help others, and that's what I I feel that honestly in my heart is is always helping others.
36:58
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna come back in a little different deal because we're personal friends, so for me it's a little different.
37:09
SPEAKER_02: Outside looking in, knowing everything that you've given, I'll be the first one to say they abandoned you.
37:19
SPEAKER_02: Did anyone from that department ask about your mental well-being during this time?
37:27
SPEAKER_02: Anyone call a check on you besides that you were suspended?
37:33
SPEAKER_03: No, my my chain of command didn't.
37:43
SPEAKER_01: That's something that stuck out visiting with you is there are people in every career field that go through the motions.
37:49
SPEAKER_01: They just get it, they're employed, they're not woven into the fabric of of the culture there, and that's one thing that everybody that talks about you said Juan like would bleed tan, I think, if you paper cut him because he lived and breathed DPS and you're a PIO, you did media for him.
38:10
SPEAKER_01: I mean you you lived and breathed DPS and and into abruptly uh after twenty-three years stellar career, um probably compounds that for you.
38:30
SPEAKER_01: Yes, sir.
38:34
SPEAKER_03: Uh the department has a lot of great young troopers, women, men, and it'll continue to be in a great department.
38:47
SPEAKER_03: It brings great pleasure, you know, that I was able to work and I had a lot of good uh troopers under me.
38:57
SPEAKER_03: So that's they're succeeding in their ways.
39:05
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I could respond in that manner.
39:07
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, I I would be a lot more probably vocal.
39:10
SPEAKER_00: But I think your your true love and passion for DPS is shining now more than ever.
39:16
SPEAKER_00: And your character.
39:17
SPEAKER_00: Because yeah, because even even now, with everything that has transpired, you still don't want to bash the department and you still don't want to negate bring that negative light on DPS because because you do you do it's in your blood and you love it.
39:31
SPEAKER_00: Just like your response while ago, they've got phenomenal men and women.
39:35
SPEAKER_00: And this is a learning curve, hopefully, for the chain of command and a lesson learned.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a whole lot to be learned from this um across the board.
39:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
39:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, not just for the people that were responding that day, but yeah, how it was handled after the fact.
39:50
SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
39:52
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
39:55
SPEAKER_00: Well, uh we typically do some questions, uh, but I think we're gonna skip it this episode.
40:03
SPEAKER_00: This is a pretty powerful episode.
40:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's a very emotional one.
40:08
SPEAKER_00: Mikey, you got anything?
40:11
SPEAKER_02: No, I was actually looking forward to the uh questions that you're looking forward to.
40:15
SPEAKER_02: He needs a good laugh before we leave.
40:17
SPEAKER_02: That'd go with it.
40:19
SPEAKER_02: That'd go with it.
40:19
SPEAKER_00: He's ready.
40:20
SPEAKER_00: All right.
40:21
SPEAKER_00: So listen, if you're if you were a DPS guy, I'm gonna have my faith in you, okay?
40:27
SPEAKER_00: There's gonna be three questions.
40:29
SPEAKER_00: Your favorite cop car?
40:31
SPEAKER_03: Camaro.
40:34
SPEAKER_02: Oh, he was one of them.
40:35
SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
40:37
SPEAKER_00: Your favorite movie?
40:40
SPEAKER_00: Comp movie, a line from cop movie.
40:42
SPEAKER_00: Your favorite cop car and uh your favorite whiskey.
40:47
SPEAKER_03: Well, my favorite car movie back to the Camaro.
40:49
SPEAKER_03: I always wanted to drive a DPS Must Mustang.
40:52
SPEAKER_03: That didn't happen.
40:52
SPEAKER_03: It was before my time.
40:54
SPEAKER_03: Uh favorite cop movie way before y'all time, PJ Hooker.
41:01
SPEAKER_03: We're going back to the mid-80s.
41:04
SPEAKER_03: Whiskey.
41:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
41:07
SPEAKER_00: All right.
41:07
SPEAKER_00: Just don't drop Angels NV, it's a whole separate episode.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: All right again, hit that like, subscribe button, uh, share your content.
41:15
SPEAKER_00: If you need to get a hold of us, the uh blue grit team, hit us at bluegrit at tmpa.org.
41:21
SPEAKER_00: But you got thing.
41:23
SPEAKER_01: One, I I can't thank you for coming on, sharing your story.
41:28
SPEAKER_01: It's important for people to understand we hire from the human race.
41:34
SPEAKER_01: And until we can hire robots that don't have feelings, don't have emotions, um, don't have different perceptions of what's going on at times.
41:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh we're gonna have we're gonna have humans who are broken after they've gone through incidents.
41:51
SPEAKER_01: Um and it's important that our non-law enforcement listeners understand everybody at a scene at any critical incident is judged on their perception and their processing that they had at that moment.
42:06
SPEAKER_01: Not days, weeks, and months later, not watching surveillance camera footage, not what having three months to watch camera angles.
42:16
SPEAKER_01: People's actions, no matter what it is every day.
42:19
SPEAKER_01: If it's your wife gets in a car wreck and you're frustrated with her, you might learn the facts about it until you judge what she saw, knew during the time of the crash.
42:29
SPEAKER_01: And that's super important.
42:31
SPEAKER_01: And then there was terrific tragic loss in this, which increases the emotion.
42:36
SPEAKER_01: People look for fault or blame in that.
42:41
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but there's a lot of humans who have suffered and are continuing to suffer.
42:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:45
SPEAKER_01: And and one, we pray for you and uh the people of Uvaldi, your people.
42:52
SPEAKER_03: That's most definitely continued prayers for the families affected, families lost their children, hello boys, teachers.
43:00
SPEAKER_03: That's how it's been my prayers.
43:06
SPEAKER_03: There's nothing you can do to bring that hello point to move forward and have a paid straight.
43:15
SPEAKER_00: Well, again, we're we I can't thank you enough.
43:18
SPEAKER_00: Can't thank Mike for setting this up.
43:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's a it's a pretty powerful story.
43:23
SPEAKER_00: So thank you for having me.
43:24
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
43:25
SPEAKER_00: Well, that wraps up this episode.
43:27
SPEAKER_00: Uh, again, like and subscribe buttons.
43:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh God bless all of you guys.
43:32
SPEAKER_00: Stay safe.
43:33
SPEAKER_00: And as always, may God bless Texas.