Latest / SpaceTomatoes / Chris Liss Schools Havok & LX - Why Your Dollars Are the Real Scam, Bitcoin, Nostr Zaps & Fiat Fiascos S2-EP14

Transcript

Chris Liss Schools Havok & LX - Why Your Dollars Are the Real Scam, Bitcoin, Nostr Zaps & Fiat Fiascos S2-EP14 · SpaceTomatoes

• 0:00
  It's a protocol.
• 0:00
  So Gmail can kick you out of Gmail,
• 0:02
  but they can't stop you from sending email.
• 0:05
  And Noster is also a protocol.
• 0:06
  So you can send it permissionlessly.
• 0:09
  Bitcoin is also a protocol.
• 0:11
  It's not a platform.
• 0:11
  Nobody controls it.
• 0:30
  All right, everybody.
• 0:36
  Welcome back to another episode of the Space Tomatoes podcast.
• 0:39
  I'm one of your hosts, Havoc.
• 0:42
  I'm Alex.
• 0:43
  Hello.
• 0:43
  Welcome back.
• 0:44
  And today we have a special guest with us, Chris Liss, host of the Chris Liss podcast.
• 0:51
  Welcome to the show, Chris.
• 0:52
  Hey, Chris.
• 0:53
  Thank you for having me.
• 0:55
  Absolutely.
• 0:55
  so actually uh we did a a show with uh constant right uh and i butchered his name apparently if
• 1:06
  you watch the beginning of that one it's pretty funny uh but um you know one of the things i did
• 1:12
  was after that that show with him was go and sign up on nostr and nostr stands for notes and other
• 1:18
  stuff transmitted by relays i've actually got that part down uh and it's kind of a a twitter
• 1:24
  ish though i guess it's x uh ish but also more kind of a platform that also incorporates uh
• 1:34
  wallets and the ability to use cryptocurrency for microtransactions uh to do what's called
• 1:41
  value for value for like podcast hosts etc where you can you know maybe you don't want to subscribe
• 1:47
  for you know 10 bucks or five bucks a month or whatever but you watch occasionally when a subject
• 1:54
  interest you and you might want to send them a little bit of cash, you know? And so I've really
• 1:59
  enjoyed that. But one of the things that, that's striking about it for me is like signing up for
• 2:04
  Nostra was easy, but then getting the entire cryptocurrency, you know, portion of that set up
• 2:10
  and getting everything to where I could do what, you know, the zaps or micro transactions,
• 2:15
  was challenging at least a little bit.
• 2:21
  And so one of the things I want to do is have someone on here
• 2:24
  that's more knowledgeable about Bitcoin and cryptocurrency
• 2:27
  than I am particularly.
• 2:30
  And just to kind of do a Q&A and talk a little bit about that.
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  So I guess we could start out with what is Bitcoin
• 2:39
  and why the heck would anyone care?
• 2:41
  Yeah. So I'm not like even in the top thousand most knowledgeable people about Bitcoin. But I can tell you, you know, what I find, why I, you know, think it's valuable and why I think most people, if they understood it, would find it valuable.
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  um you know it's basically just a store of value it's just like a battery for energy
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  so imagine you know if you have you know a bunch of energy like generated from solar panels and
• 3:11
  you can use it or but if you have surplus you want to store it before it runs out
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  and this just stores it there right it literally is just a network that you can put this energy in
• 3:21
  and it's there for you later now the way you get the energy isn't from the sun although i guess you
• 3:25
  could mine it from solar, but you get it from dollars, which are infinitely printable. So this
• 3:30
  energy that you have from the fiat system is, it can be just generated, which depletes, you know,
• 3:37
  the value of your particular store. So if you have X amount of dollars in your bank, X over what,
• 3:42
  what's the denominator of that, right? Because it's, you know, you know, in like Zimbabwe,
• 3:47
  they had these 6 billion, I had a $6 billion bill from Zimbabwe, a real one, I think,
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  you know and and it's just the denominator really matters the numerator is not the only thing
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  and so this energy is kind of leaking every time they increase the denominator it's literally
• 4:01
  reducing your fraction um and then you can actually put it into a different system that
• 4:06
  has a fixed denominator um and it's just like you know so the solar's coming in and i can
• 4:12
  use it really quick try to use all of it turn on all my appliances because it's hot out now
• 4:16
  or i can decide well maybe i'll want some of this from late you know for later when and i can store
• 4:22
  it in this battery so it's this battery that holds the energy now it's not all it is but in terms of
• 4:28
  like a simple analogy it's just like you know this is the way you can keep some of what you have
• 4:33
  without it being debased into nothingness right right okay and and so you know you and this is a
• 4:42
  perfect time for this particular question, right? Yeah. When I talk to people about it,
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  you know, I get a lot of, well, that's not real money. And obviously, okay, neither is the paper
• 4:54
  that you think is real money. I mean, it was printed into existence with no backing and then
• 4:59
  loaned out at interest with no backing. And just somehow money keeps coming back in to, you know,
• 5:08
  repopulate that with plus interest, but it doesn't stop the printer from continuing to occur.
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  Now, you look at right now, and a lot of people that I talk to about Bitcoin are like, oh my gosh,
• 5:19
  the thing tanked. It's at 70. And it's like, yeah, well, your dollar is at a fraction of the value
• 5:26
  it would have been, it was some years ago. So how do you talk to people when they have kind of that
• 5:35
  standoffish. Well, it's lost. It's still volatile, things of that nature.
• 5:41
  Well, it is volatile, right? In dollar terms, it'll be worth 125. The next few months later,
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  it's worth 65 or 60. But it's volatile to the upside over time, which it's been volatile the
• 5:54
  whole time. And it just makes higher lows and higher highs. And it's possible it goes to zero
• 5:59
  and everyone loses interest. But to date, it's only been volatile to the upside, whereas the
• 6:04
  dollar is not quite so volatile, but it is very steady and consistent to the downside.
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  And if you look at what your dollar bought in 1970 or 1940 versus now, it doesn't go down 50%
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  in three months or 85% in some of the bigger drawdowns for Bitcoin, but it only is going in
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  one direction very steadily. I mean, there's some little, when they print a whole bunch,
• 6:28
  inflation may jump up suddenly to 10%, but it's still low volatility compared to Bitcoin,
• 6:34
  but it is downward trajectory completely. And we know that's not going... I mean,
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  I think it was safety and said, if you wanted to kill Bitcoin, governments could.
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  All they would have to do is be totally fiscally responsible. And then there would really be no
• 6:49
  need to have this battery that preserves your purchasing power because the dollar in your bank
• 6:54
  account would be preserving it, right? Because they didn't keep inflating it. But like, we know
• 6:58
  they're never going to do that. Like, all you got to do is turn off gravity and you could jump out a
• 7:02
  window from any floor and survive. Yeah, fine. If you can turn off gravity, that's fine. If you
• 7:06
  could stop them from printing, that's fine. But we know that's never going to happen. So yeah,
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  I think that's the argument. Now, they don't care about the argument though, because see,
• 7:16
  people are just invested in a worldview more, I think, than, right? They're just like,
• 7:21
  it's not bitcoin right it's like you're a conspiracy theorist and you think you know like
• 7:28
  you know you don't believe they were just trying their best during covid or whatever else you
• 7:32
  believe i don't i don't make assumptions about you guys but whatever i'm just saying like
• 7:35
  conspiracy factualist i'm sorry but you know they're they're they find one that didn't
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  isn't true at this point right i mean it's 2026 now dude i mean come on like like this let's not
• 7:48
  even go back. There's nothing to litigate anymore. It's over, right? So reality is the jury and the
• 7:53
  jury is made a verdict. And the thing is like, so there's that hurdle that you're never going to
• 7:59
  cross. They're going to be the late to come because they're not interested in how do I preserve my
• 8:04
  wealth? They're interested in how do I preserve my worldview? And so preserving your worldview is
• 8:08
  a whole different question than preserving your wealth. But an open-minded person of which I know
• 8:12
  many who are still in the old worldview and don't really get it, that's who we're talking to, right?
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  because the true, like, I don't want to think about this, this boils the oceans or whatever,
• 8:22
  you know, whatever, they're still reading the New York times, you know what I mean? It's like,
• 8:25
  let's just forget it. Like, it's just, there's no point. Now you go to insane asylum, you know,
• 8:28
  and try to have a, you know, that you have a much better chance to connect, you know, with somebody
• 8:34
  and I'm not, I'm being serious. But so, so I'll just, I'll just get into it about Noster and,
• 8:40
  you know, I'm not, again, I'm not the expert on this, but I have a sub stack and I have some
• 8:43
  subscribers, you know, and, and I don't really like it. Like I like writing and talking, right.
• 8:48
  And I, and I try to add value. And if people recognize value, I like that some of them
• 8:53
  subscribe, but I hate the subscription model because it's a bad deal for them. Shit.
• 8:57
  They're paying 70 bucks a year, 10 bucks a month. Dude, Spotify is 12 bucks a month.
• 9:01
  It's Spotify. You can shit on it all you want, but it's every piece of music,
• 9:04
  you know, recorded. You can get Beethoven, you can get Bach, you can get it. You know,
• 9:08
  you're going to really pay the same amount for my ridiculous content versus like the entire
• 9:13
  of human music composition, you know, or you're going to get a AI subscription that you can
• 9:19
  basically get, you know, do half your work for you and, you know, a quarter of the time. And like,
• 9:24
  you know, again, it's a bad value, right? And so I don't really like, I don't think it's good to
• 9:29
  subscribe to my sub stack for 10 bucks a month. And also, I don't really want to be like on the
• 9:33
  hook for like on command, giving content, right? Like content comes to you, ideas come to you or
• 9:39
  that don't, right? I don't want to just have to publish because, oh, I've got to create something
• 9:43
  for these people that are paying. That's a bad deal for me. I want to be able to, you know,
• 9:47
  walk the earth for six months if I feel like it, you know, and come back and I didn't like, oh,
• 9:51
  shit, all these people were paying and I didn't do anything. You know what's great? If I publish
• 9:54
  something or do a podcast and you can give me 50 cents or a buck because you like that podcast,
• 10:00
  you know, and you're like, that really kind of connected with me. Here's a buck and you're free.
• 10:04
  You're not obligated to do it ever again. You're not obligated to track down and cancel your
• 10:08
  subscription. Oh shit, I was subscribing to this for two years. I didn't even listen once, right?
• 10:12
  You don't put that burden on you. You get out your credit card, all that. You just literally pay your
• 10:16
  dollar and you never have to think about it again. Or maybe you listen next week and you pay another
• 10:20
  dollar and you get, you know, a thousand people doing that every week. Like you're good, right?
• 10:24
  And so to me, that is Noster. Now, of course you don't need Noster for that, but Noster is the
• 10:28
  social grid where you see all the people who are putting things in your feed. You know, I now follow
• 10:32
  you guys. So if you say something interesting, I'll shoot you 50 cents, you know, 20 cents,
• 10:37
  because that's cool.
• 10:38
  You know, now I have a grid of people
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  who might say something
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  that makes me think about something
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  or consider something I wouldn't have.
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  And that adds value to me,
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  you know, points me down a rabbit hole
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  I wouldn't have gone down.
• 10:51
  And now we're in an ecosystem.
• 10:53
  So now, you know, people work on,
• 10:55
  I know I'm talking a lot,
• 10:55
  but people work on incentives, right?
• 10:57
  Like, so like saying like,
• 10:58
  you're going to get freedom tech
• 11:00
  and this is the freedom thing.
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  And this is the better way to do it.
• 11:04
  Nobody gives a shit about,
• 11:05
  about like being the freedom guy or what?
• 11:08
  That's just all platitudes.
• 11:09
  What is it in for them, right?
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  What's in it for you?
• 11:12
  What's in it for you is you can pay me.
• 11:15
  You listen every week and you feel like I'm adding value,
• 11:19
  but you don't want to get your credit card out.
• 11:20
  Very sensibly don't want to deal with that.
• 11:22
  But you do feel like you want to shoot me a buck or two,
• 11:25
  tip me, because it is unbalanced that you're getting value
• 11:28
  and giving nothing.
• 11:29
  You want to pay.
• 11:29
  You just don't have a good way to do it
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  in a proportional way that makes sense.
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  And this gives you the opportunity.
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  So first, it gives them the chance to pay.
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  Second of all, it gives them the chance to get into the future, right?
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  You say, you know, Nostra is easy, but connecting the payment rail is hard.
• 11:44
  Well, you know what?
• 11:45
  1997, I don't know how old you guys are, maybe close to my age.
• 11:48
  You know, getting my email set up, what's SMTP?
• 11:51
  What the hell is that?
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  You know, and I got to, you know, getting internet literate was hard.
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  But it was the future.
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  And it was my whole job.
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  The whole reason I had a job was because I, for whatever reason, decided I was curious
• 12:03
  enough to get into this and got a job building an online company.
• 12:07
  The future is Nostra.
• 12:08
  The future is peer-to-peer, private keys.
• 12:11
  AI is going to generate all this bullshit.
• 12:13
  They can recreate you or me or whatever in a convincing way, but can't sign your private
• 12:18
  key now, can they?
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  So this is in your interest to do.
• 12:21
  Even if you're a normie, this is like email, which all the normies do, and browser.
• 12:25
  So sorry, I've been ranting for a while.
• 12:27
  I've been rambling, but I'll let you guys see what you think about that.
• 12:33
  That's awesome.
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  I love the ranting.
• 12:36
  Alex, did you have something?
• 12:39
  I'm just a complete noob to Bitcoin completely.
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  Like, I mean, I've heard of it, obviously.
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  I know zero about it.
• 12:46
  I would know not how to get into it.
• 12:48
  But I mean, to me, maybe I'm wrong.
• 12:51
  It kind of seems like the easier way to store gold or silver or something like that maybe There a parallel there except it just a little more portable because is that kind of that actually pretty good uh description
• 13:07
  uh lynn alden you know who lynn alden is she's kind of prominent in okay good you got i love this
• 13:13
  you guys are not out of like the bitcoin influencer you guys are not you guys are clean your brains
• 13:18
  are clean you have no preconceptions it's good okay so lynn alden just like a prominent she like
• 13:23
  is very smart. Does, you know, just Twitter finance stuff, big following. She's on Noster a
• 13:29
  lot. Good, you know, I mean, her stuff is good. But she wrote a book called Broken Money. And in
• 13:34
  the book, she said something, it was just a small thing. But it's really interesting that, you know,
• 13:39
  gold became, and this safe Dean talks about this in his book, The Bitcoin Standard, but basically,
• 13:43
  like, gold became money over the centuries, over the millennia. And why did it become money?
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  Because, like, obviously, you understand why we need money and barter is just not going to work,
• 13:52
  because we need a unit to convert everything, right?
• 13:55
  We can't be like, well, how many apples is a pair of shoes?
• 13:57
  It's just, we can't do that, right?
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  So we need like a neutral unit
• 14:01
  that we can price everything in, right?
• 14:03
  Like how much is this worth?
• 14:05
  And, but it can't be like apples can't be money
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  because they go bad and like seashells were money
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  for some like inland tribes,
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  but then some seafaring tribe showed up
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  with like a huge thing of seashells
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  and bottled their stuff
• 14:15
  and all they have is a bunch of worthless seashells.
• 14:16
  So it has to be scarce, right?
• 14:18
  It can't be seashells, which might be scarce locally,
• 14:20
  but not really scarce.
• 14:22
  So gold is scarce.
• 14:23
  It's durable, right?
• 14:26
  There's a lot of things about gold.
• 14:28
  You know, it's portable.
• 14:29
  I mean, it's divisible.
• 14:32
  There's a lot of things you can make uniform coins with it.
• 14:35
  There's a lot of, like money isn't just random what we choose as money.
• 14:38
  We can't use apples.
• 14:39
  We can't use certain things.
• 14:40
  We need money.
• 14:42
  There's certain natural occurring commodities that are better for money than others.
• 14:46
  Gold ends up being the best.
• 14:48
  But then I think it's in Lynn Alden's book.
• 14:50
  she said around 1850, the telegraph gets invented. And now you can communicate at the speed of light.
• 14:56
  You know, you can communicate instantly with somebody over distance. But gold, you know,
• 15:01
  you got to put that thing on horseback or, you know, and so like if we're running a business and
• 15:07
  speed matters, which it usually does in business, we're going to have to have promises. Okay,
• 15:12
  I'll get you the gold in a week. It's going to take a week to get over there.
• 15:15
  So it's all these ledgers, all these pieces of paper with gold, right? I can't,
• 15:20
  give you the gold quick enough to like get this thing going before the competitor does.
• 15:25
  And so as international commerce and everything's connected, internet,
• 15:29
  gold is just woefully insufficient at the speed. So it's all just paper promises and paper,
• 15:35
  right? And then you have a problem and you have these crises where there's too much papers issue.
• 15:39
  There's too much debt, the financial crisis. It's not backed up by the actual housing,
• 15:43
  the price of the house is inflated. Everyone's going underwater. It's not the speed of commerce.
• 15:49
  So now you have this thing that has all the properties of money.
• 15:52
  It's scarce.
• 15:52
  It's divisible.
• 15:54
  You can send it.
• 15:54
  It's transportable, much more transportable over space than gold, much more easily.
• 15:59
  You don't have to like verify it.
• 16:00
  Imagine like weighing the gold and trying to figure out that this is real and not fake
• 16:04
  gold.
• 16:04
  There's all these things with gold.
• 16:05
  It's very hard that Bitcoin, it's immediately verified.
• 16:08
  It's sendable over space.
• 16:09
  It's programmable.
• 16:10
  I mean, it's digital money for the internet age, for the information age.
• 16:14
  And so once the telegraph got invented, gold was there since Egypt, right?
• 16:17
  Like it was the best.
• 16:18
  It was the king.
• 16:19
  And, but then as soon as we got to this sort of light speed communication, it just, it's still, you know, doing well, it went up, but it's not really suitable for the modern world. And that's so it's, you're right, it is gold, but the digital form, which can now keep pace with what we need it for the digital economy.
• 16:39
  i actually just used that exact same analogy in that you know gold it's scarcity number one you
• 16:48
  you called that out and that is a huge component of it right the seashells was another great example
• 16:54
  because that's when i always go back to gold is an excellent store of value it is a terrible
• 17:01
  means of exchange that's just the reality of it right um you you mentioned you know obviously
• 17:07
  counterfeiting is is a you know big part of that lead gold very similar weights very similar
• 17:13
  densities but value wise not the same right uh because of silver now right exactly so um yeah
• 17:23
  no that's that's huge and the the medium of exchange is the thing that that bitcoin brings
• 17:29
  it's got scarcity built into it right so one of the things that you know our fiat system has is a
• 17:36
  zero scarcity model. I mean, literally, you know, COVID came along and next thing you know,
• 17:44
  you know, trillions of dollars were just poofed in the air just because why not? We can just do
• 17:51
  this. And because there's no scarcity, there's also no inherent value to this paper, right? I
• 17:59
  mean, okay, maybe the paper stock has some limited value, but you know, other than that,
• 18:04
  there's no inherent value whereas bitcoin once you own a portion of it right there's only what
• 18:11
  21 million bitcoins available period ever it doesn't go up yeah that's the limit and probably
• 18:21
  some are lost wherever maybe eventually like the quantum stuff will locate some of the lost ones
• 18:26
  but there's probably 19 million you know um and everybody's lost a little bit of it i've lost
• 18:32
  20 bucks worth a few years ago. This is probably like 200 bucks worth. It's dangerous, right?
• 18:39
  There's no customer service. I'm sorry. I lost some coins. I don't know. There is none. But yeah,
• 18:46
  I think the reason why the normie doesn't buy it yet, again, not the normie that is completely
• 18:54
  bought into a worldview, but just the sort of open-minded normie that's just curious
• 18:57
  is that it isn't a medium exchange yet.
• 19:00
  I mean, it is in places in El Salvador,
• 19:02
  maybe you're on the beach where they have all that stuff.
• 19:05
  But, you know, if you're going to go to the grocery store,
• 19:09
  they're probably not going to take it.
• 19:12
  And people are, you know, okay, well,
• 19:15
  when's that going to happen, you know,
• 19:16
  and it needs to happen.
• 19:17
  And some people like Jack Dorsey are doing a lot,
• 19:19
  building tools to kind of make them interchangeable.
• 19:22
  And maybe that'll happen.
• 19:23
  I don't know.
• 19:24
  I think there, you know, maybe lightning will do it.
• 19:26
  I don't know enough about the tech, but it's a second layer.
• 19:29
  Like on chain, there's like costs of selling things.
• 19:32
  The blocks are only one megabyte.
• 19:34
  So we can't have everybody's coffee purchases going in every Bitcoin block.
• 19:38
  That's going to all be second level.
• 19:39
  But that kind of makes sense, right?
• 19:40
  Like you don't have your entire bank account in your, you don't have like, you might have
• 19:45
  10 grand in your bank account, but you don't put it in your wallet when you go down to the
• 19:48
  grocery store, right?
• 19:49
  You might have like 80 bucks in your wallet for like the small stuff.
• 19:52
  And then, you know, when that runs out, you go back to your ATM and re-up.
• 19:56
  I think it might be more like that.
• 19:58
  And the Lightning will be like your paying wallet.
• 20:02
  It may be that you exchange it for dollar stable coins.
• 20:06
  I don't know enough about stable coins,
• 20:08
  but that's how the digital dollar becomes layer two.
• 20:11
  So I don't know how much of a medium exchange it will be.
• 20:14
  And part of me thinks
• 20:15
  that it doesn't have to be a medium exchange
• 20:18
  like some people think.
• 20:19
  It just has to be possible
• 20:20
  to hold everything else to account.
• 20:23
  Because if they start printing,
• 20:25
  then everyone flees. And then the, you see what I mean? Like it's, it's not that everyone has to
• 20:30
  go, you know, do, you know, use it as such. It's just that it exists is this powerful deterrent.
• 20:37
  Because if you start messing around and inflating, people will run. Now it hasn't deterred it yet,
• 20:42
  but let's see when it gets up to 20% of the global, you know, GDP 40 or, you know, 40% of
• 20:50
  global assets let's see what happens then you know that anytime you you mess around and cheat
• 20:55
  your your whole country flees into bitcoin and then okay well we can't mess around anymore so
• 21:01
  i'm not sure if it it has to be the thing itself or just needs to be there in enough size as a
• 21:06
  threat to to the system i think probably for people even older than i am but i mean for myself i i
• 21:16
  mean there there is a feeling of assurance when you're holding something over here or what i mean
• 21:20
  Yeah. Right. No, but I mean, there is a feeling of assurance when you're holding something like tangible in your hand versus something that's digital that, I mean, especially having no knowledge of how things work. It just, it's just, you know, like for me, I choose, you know, like I'd rather have a bar of gold than a bar of gold's worth of Bitcoin, just because I don't know enough about it.
• 21:43
  And it kind of seems like a bit of a, like a gambling aspect to it, sort of like the stock market in essence.
• 21:51
  You know, I mean, of course, cash value goes down always, but you know, the way that that flows kind of seems like that to me.
• 21:59
  Yeah.
• 22:00
  And I get that.
• 22:00
  I mean, it's an abstraction, right?
• 22:02
  Like it just seems like, but I mean, you look at your bank account, right?
• 22:04
  And your bank account has this number in it and then you spend some and the number goes down.
• 22:08
  You get a paycheck and your number goes up, right?
• 22:10
  But like, it's all just a digital abstraction, right?
• 22:13
  And what backs that up? Well, that you can get it out, but okay, maybe the bank permits you to get
• 22:20
  it out. You may have had some wrong thing, but you haven't gotten busted for it yet on social
• 22:25
  media or whatever you said. So the bank isn't interfering with your ability to remove and use
• 22:29
  this money. But then there's other risks, like they print so much money that your 10 grand is
• 22:34
  only purchasing two grand worth of goods now because they inflated the shit out of it. So
• 22:37
  you have a risk of that, right? You can pull the cash out, but it's not buying as much as it did.
• 22:42
  And it's like everybody can take out 10 grand now who has it and buy 10 grand worth of goods.
• 22:47
  But if everybody takes out 10 grand and tries to buy 10 grand worth of goods, the price of those goods is going to go up.
• 22:53
  So the first person can do it, but not everybody, right?
• 22:56
  So there's all of that.
• 22:58
  But again, okay, borrow gold.
• 22:59
  That's a little bit different, right?
• 23:00
  They can only create like 1% to 2% more gold every year.
• 23:03
  You got this in your hand.
• 23:05
  But you can't go to the grocery store with it, right?
• 23:08
  You got to sell it to somebody.
• 23:09
  Like that's, you got to go to your local gold shop.
• 23:12
  I don't know if he's going to give you a hundred cents on the dollar for it.
• 23:15
  Is anybody watching you carry this bag into the gold shop and what you exit with?
• 23:19
  That seems a little sketch.
• 23:20
  Like, you know, like if I'm, you know, criminal, I'm going to be hanging out near the gold shop
• 23:25
  and see whoever's walking out with the satchel and maybe follow where that guy's going.
• 23:28
  You know, I don't like that.
• 23:30
  This is private.
• 23:31
  I mean, it's public.
• 23:32
  The blockchain's public, but it's private in the sense is you could send a transaction
• 23:36
  from anywhere in the privacy of your home or someone else's home or whatever.
• 23:39
  and you have a key, a private key, if you have it in cold stores. Now, most people are going to just
• 23:48
  buy IBIT, the ETF, or maybe they'll buy it on an exchange, like River is a good exchange. And so
• 23:54
  they could just buy it and have it in an exchange. And River has the keys. And that's more like
• 23:58
  an investment account, right? You'll have a password and you got to trust them. And I don't
• 24:03
  know them personally, but they seem like they're above board, but you never know. When a crisis
• 24:08
  comes, who knows, right, about other people. You don't know them. They might have families to feed
• 24:12
  and desperate times calls for desperate measures. But that's probably the way the normies would do
• 24:17
  it. Now, if you take it into storage, like onto your private custody, then you have sort of
• 24:22
  proof of it because you have the key, the only key that can send it and move it. And,
• 24:32
  you know, somebody else could guess your key. They would just like, I would say, you know,
• 24:37
  there's 10 to the 15, you know, quintillion grains of sand or just quadrillion.
• 24:42
  I don't know if it's a quintillion, 10 to the 18 atoms in a grain of salt maybe.
• 24:47
  And there's 10 to the 77 possible keys.
• 24:50
  So, you know, it'd be like guessing one atom in a grain of salt,
• 24:55
  but in the salt and the whole salt flat and, you know, in the,
• 24:59
  and if there was a salt flat the size of the solar system, you know,
• 25:01
  I mean, it would be like guessing one atom.
• 25:03
  I mean, they're not going to guess it, you know?
• 25:05
  So if you have the knowledge, you have possession, basically.
• 25:11
  It's like that's what's holding it in your hand, but you're going to have to go through the understanding of why that is to feel that feeling that satisfied, you know, that this is real, that this isn't just some vapor where they could disappear on you.
• 25:25
  to break it down even a little simpler so say somebody had that 10 grand in their bank and they
• 25:31
  wanted to convert that into bitcoin how would you even go about doing that well you can just go to
• 25:37
  an exchange so say like i mean i'm you know river's a good exchange like that's one there's there's you
• 25:43
  know tons of them i mean some people use coinbase don't love coinbase but whatever it works you go
• 25:48
  and you you just put in your bank account routing number to an exchange and then once it's connected
• 25:54
  you just say buy and buy whatever amount you want
• 25:57
  and it suck it in right from your bank account And then you now have it at that exchange Now you don have the keys at that point The exchange has the keys and you have an account So you basically have an IOU with the exchange And then if you wanted to take it privately
• 26:11
  you'd have to get some sort of wallet, either like a cold storage wallet or like a
• 26:16
  less recommended with a lot. If you had a lot, you probably wouldn't want to use like a hot
• 26:20
  wallet that's online. And then you could send it back to your wallet. I'm not the expert in this
• 26:26
  at all so like there's people who like do like you know tutorials on the stuff who make the stuff
• 26:32
  um but i'm just you know i just i know a little bit about how it works that's all i'll say
• 26:36
  yeah that's actually a transaction sorry go ahead sir good no i was just going to ask if there's
• 26:43
  some kind of transaction fee involved with that typically or how does how do they make their money
• 26:47
  on the exchanges usually there's like a fee like half a percent or one percent so say if you buy
• 26:52
  10 grand it might cost you 100 bucks or something like that um you can like do recurring buys and
• 26:56
  sometimes there'll be specials.
• 26:57
  They'll be like no fees because these companies are all holders.
• 27:00
  So they kind of want everyone to go in.
• 27:01
  So they'll,
• 27:02
  but it's,
• 27:02
  you know,
• 27:03
  it's usually like less than a percent,
• 27:04
  more than a percent is too much.
• 27:06
  Like don't do it.
• 27:08
  And then to send,
• 27:09
  there's usually like a little fee,
• 27:11
  but it's like,
• 27:12
  you know,
• 27:12
  I think it was sailor who was saying like,
• 27:14
  if you wanted to send a billion dollars worth of gold from the U S to
• 27:17
  Australia,
• 27:17
  it might cost you like a million dollars to send it.
• 27:20
  But like maybe five bucks to send a billion dollars worth of Bitcoin to
• 27:23
  Australia.
• 27:23
  So it's,
• 27:24
  you know,
• 27:25
  it's the transaction fees.
• 27:26
  They'll probably get bigger, you know, but that's not a big thing.
• 27:31
  Yeah, the thing I still, like I use Tracer, right?
• 27:37
  It's a hardware wallet, very secure.
• 27:41
  At least I think they are.
• 27:43
  They put a lot of effort in making these things pretty bomb-proof, even in shipping, right?
• 27:50
  So they, you know, put actual physical stickers over the ports.
• 27:54
  if it's removed it's one of those you know void type things you're not going to remove that thing
• 28:01
  and plug into it and compromise the device but once you have that it's it's yours no nobody can
• 28:07
  do anything to compromise that just just just so you know i mean this is your podcast and you guys
• 28:13
  will decide what to air but you might not want to say like what you have it's not like you know
• 28:18
  someone's going to come to your house tomorrow or something like that but it's just sort of like
• 28:21
  just you know it depends how paranoid you are you know and i'm good i live in the middle of nowhere
• 28:28
  and a 300 yard long driveway good and dogs some guns you know seven big dogs okay and you know
• 28:37
  so i'm just saying i'm not you know whatever it's probably nothing but some people so um
• 28:41
  yeah like you know there's all sorts of different ways to to like you know make sure it's not
• 28:46
  tampered with and it's important right because like someone had some back door they did something
• 28:50
  you know, it'd be a problem. But yeah, it's just a way of recording, you know, recording
• 28:54
  your sort of proof of ownership and being able to use it later to send a transaction when you want.
• 29:03
  And, but again, that's not my expertise. I don't want to get too much into that.
• 29:07
  What I do is I talk to people, right? I talk to friends, I have a podcast and I, you know,
• 29:14
  I'm very much into the, why should you do this? I get this all the time, you know, and we get into
• 29:18
  it. And it's like, really, it's because it's in your interest. It's in your interest to do it.
• 29:23
  And it's in your interest because A, it's the future and you want to get there. It's just like
• 29:28
  the internet. Like there's some people are like, ah, you know, Paul Krugman won a Nobel prize in
• 29:33
  economics, just shows what that's worth. So the internet will have the impact of the fax machine.
• 29:38
  And so people are like, yeah, I'm good. I don't need this internet bullshit, you know, but like,
• 29:42
  you know, here we are. And I think it's the same thing. Like, I think like you'll want to A,
• 29:47
  be able to store your value. You'll want to be able to participate in digital economy.
• 29:52
  AI is going to use crypto, probably Bitcoin, but maybe some other bullshit cryptos
• 29:56
  to get funded and fund itself and incentivize itself because you can't use physical. That's
• 30:03
  one thing you said, like what, you know, physical gold in your hand. AI doesn't have hands. It only
• 30:07
  knows this, right? So I just think it's like you, you want to, you know, do you want to get your
• 30:13
  email and your internet going in 1996 or 1997? Or do you want to wait till 2003? And then like,
• 30:20
  you know, everybody else on the job and like knows what the hell's going on already.
• 30:23
  And then, and then the second one for Noster is again, like, do you want to be able to pay people?
• 30:29
  Do you want to be in a place where people can pay you for your work as they see fit when they want,
• 30:35
  not one cent more than they want. You're not under the hook for anything. You can pay other
• 30:39
  people. You get into this ecosystem early and it matters. I have a story. I told this in my
• 30:43
  podcast um i used to do a sirius xm show and i got fired for the stupidest reason um but i got
• 30:50
  fired and i was really bummed um i made a bet on the air now they're like gambling all the time
• 30:56
  because now gambling is legal it's like you got to make bets you got to you know but uh i made a
• 31:00
  bet with the guy 50 bucks on a baseball thing that you know guy hitting 50 home runs i actually won
• 31:04
  the bet i did get 50 bucks for it but uh my producer who's a total pussy can i say that on
• 31:08
  the show, was like, oh, they're very upset that you made a bet, you know, these total
• 31:13
  nutless monkeys.
• 31:15
  And I just, you know, was off air, but I was like, dude, what the fuck?
• 31:17
  Because they told us we were boring, me and my nerdy fantasy sports friend, that's what
• 31:21
  I used to do, my partner.
• 31:23
  And I was like, well, I made a bet.
• 31:24
  I was trying to have fun, you know, let's put some money on it, whatever.
• 31:26
  And they went and they fired my ass.
• 31:27
  So I was bummed.
• 31:29
  And my friend, I was talking to my friend about this and my friend was like, you know, it's
• 31:33
  like 2006.
• 31:34
  He's like, podcasting is going to be really big.
• 31:36
  You should start doing a podcast, like a fantasy football podcast.
• 31:38
  podcast and i was like yeah that's a good idea you know i was like so i bought an 80 podcast mic but
• 31:45
  i couldn't get the software to sync up i was like there's not it's not like recording when i talk
• 31:49
  into it i don't know what's going on it was 2006 and i just kind of like lost steam messing with it
• 31:56
  you know it wasn't like ai you could just be like walk me through the exact steps it was like google
• 32:00
  and whatever and dude if i had done a fantasy football podcast in 2006 with the site that i
• 32:06
  was working which had like a decent amount of distribution this would have been you know it
• 32:11
  would have been joe rogan but it would have been big and it would have been easy and nobody was
• 32:14
  doing it but i didn't do it right i just didn't have the technical i didn't have the follow-through
• 32:20
  i didn't i was like yeah whatever but that's what i feel about this new ecosystem it's like
• 32:26
  it's just like that pocket it's like okay fine you don't want to deal with figuring out the tech
• 32:30
  stuff to get your podcast going, fine, don't podcast. Let these other guys, you know, blow up
• 32:37
  doing fantasy football podcasts, which a few of them did. But after that, right, you know, fine,
• 32:42
  you don't want to deal with it, don't deal with it. I do think, you know, I'm not saying everyone's
• 32:45
  gonna get rich because they're going to Noster or saving in Bitcoin, although you probably will
• 32:50
  get rich if you save in Bitcoin with enough of your savings. But I just feel like it's the future,
• 32:55
  you want to just suck it up and just get over the hurdle and figure it out.
• 33:01
  The thing I like about NOSCR is the parallel to Bitcoin, right? I own my keys. So you can't kick
• 33:10
  me off. You can't tell me I can't post what I want to post. You can't censor me. You can't quiet me
• 33:16
  down. All you can do is individually block me or block me at your own relay, right? If for some
• 33:23
  reason i have some message that's that terrible which i hope i don't but i i don't know um and
• 33:30
  that's a really really cool thing so what do you okay so here we are in current environment we've
• 33:36
  seen a 50 drop from at h at h being all-time highs uh and i know some people that kind of went
• 33:44
  oh yeah now i got to get into this and it was six figures and i was kind of like
• 33:48
  yeah i mean it's not gonna go anywhere but i know a lot of people now are just kind of like
• 33:56
  oh crap like this this was a mistake and and everything else and now i'm fortunate enough to
• 34:02
  have had my my you know my purchases of you know small amounts of of coin over you know years uh
• 34:12
  So it's not a 50% loss for me.
• 34:15
  In fact, it's quite the opposite.
• 34:17
  But what do you say to people like that?
• 34:23
  They're like, oh my gosh, this is a tragic mistake I made.
• 34:28
  If you're using money that you need in the next year or two, even three maybe, you're
• 34:33
  taking a chance.
• 34:34
  I mean, it might go up relative to your entry point or it might go down and sometimes dramatically
• 34:39
  and it is a bit of a gamble.
• 34:42
  Um, but you know, there was people that bought at a thousand and it dropped to 200 or whatever.
• 34:47
  And they were like, Oh my God, I can't believe I bought 10 of these at a thousand.
• 34:51
  Now it's 200.
• 34:52
  I lost $8,000, you know?
• 34:54
  And you know, now it's, now they got, you know, whatever, 700,000 without, if they held,
• 34:59
  but they probably panicked and sold and said, thank God I'm getting my 2000 back out.
• 35:03
  That was stupid.
• 35:04
  Um, there were people that bought, you know, it, you know, at 20,000 at the peak of 2017.
• 35:09
  and it went all the way down to 3,200 at the COVID crash, you know, but now it's, you know,
• 35:14
  whatever, 67 or 68. And, and okay. But the thing is like, it's not like, you know, if you want
• 35:22
  short term in, you know, money that you're going to use, you're just gambling. You might be a plus
• 35:27
  EV gamble, but plus EV, you know, it's like, it's like, would you bet all your money on a
• 35:31
  55% chance? No, hell no. 45 comes in all the time, right? So it's like, it's plus EV though.
• 35:39
  Your expected return is more money than you have now. Yeah, but there's a 45% chance I have zero
• 35:44
  and a 55% chance I double it. The plus EV is not enough. It has to also be that you can live with
• 35:50
  the temporary drawdowns. And so that's important. And so there's nothing wrong if you got in,
• 35:56
  nobody knows where it's going. You got in 125 and thought, hey, it's going to 400 this fall.
• 36:01
  I thought it might, you know, there's nothing wrong with that, but still could.
• 36:06
  Yeah, totally.
• 36:07
  But, but like, obviously, you know, to say like, well, I bought it 120.
• 36:11
  Now it's 68.
• 36:13
  I should have bought a 68.
• 36:14
  Well, that's just, you know, sort of self that's like tautology.
• 36:17
  It's like, yes, I could have gotten more for the same amount of money.
• 36:21
  Of course you would.
• 36:22
  But if I knew the future, you know, if the Seahawks won the Superbowl, you know, if I,
• 36:25
  if I knew that I did bet on them by the way, but if I knew for sure, I would have just put
• 36:29
  all my money on the seahawks because now that i know they won it would have been a great bet but
• 36:34
  it's like yeah okay after the fact it's very easy to say that um i would say to those people
• 36:39
  you know be cool unless you need if you needed the money short in short term you made a mistake
• 36:45
  and you got to sell some but if you don't need the money just be cool and don't try to time the
• 36:50
  market even sailor says he can't time the market brutal which by the way has messed up my typing so
• 36:57
  bad i can't type wood like i would go you know to save my life anymore for some reason it
• 37:04
  constantly comes out w-o-u-d-l i'm like so but yeah the the you know the bitcoin mantra
• 37:13
  hoodl right or hold i think applies there right because i've seen i've gone in i i was told hey
• 37:22
  man you need to get in on this when it was like hundreds of dollars per coin and i was like i
• 37:27
  don't know that's kind of sketchy internet money i don't know i wish i could go back in time for that
• 37:34
  particular little thing but by the same token i at one point had microsoft stock back in the
• 37:42
  very early 90s i believe it was and it was like 40 dollars a share or something and then they got
• 37:50
  sued by the doj i don't know if you remember this but of course and the stock tanked and i panicked
• 37:57
  and i sold it that was not the brightest move i i had like you know i don't know 35 shares of
• 38:05
  microsoft at the time if i had just weathered that i'd be fine yeah no i mean it it really is you
• 38:14
  know it's the same thing that you know it's like apple google any of these companies that blew up
• 38:19
  right? Like if you took the short-term profit and I did, I traded a couple of those a bit and I made
• 38:24
  a little money, but I thought, oh, this is good. I've made money. Let's get out. I mean, really the
• 38:29
  best move is just never sell, right? Now, of course you got to pay for things in your life,
• 38:33
  right? If you have an infinite amount of fiat, then you don't have to worry about it. But
• 38:36
  if you need to pay for things, you know, all the rich people, they just borrow against their stocks
• 38:40
  so they don't have to get capital gains taxes. And then the stocks just go up and up and over
• 38:45
  time and the debt is trivial compared to the equity that they have. But yeah, I mean, pretty
• 38:51
  much. And the thing is, this isn't a stock. So this is, you know, so people, a lot of normies
• 38:56
  look at this like a stock like oh it been a really successful stock Okay So let maybe I should buy some but it kind of high I wait till it drops I don think they realize like so like you know how much money can flow through Apple
• 39:10
  Apple's capital structure, right? Like, so like they make mute, they have iTunes, they have podcasts,
• 39:16
  they have apps, they have, you know, iPhones, they have, you know, hardware, laptops, whatever.
• 39:23
  Like, that's like, what is it? A 3 trillion, $4 trillion company. Like you could go to like
• 39:28
  8 trillion if they got bigger market share of some of this stuff maybe you know i don't know
• 39:33
  right so like more money could flow through apple and the stock could go up in proportion but
• 39:40
  we're talking about the market for money itself right like when we're talking about bitcoin it's
• 39:45
  not like a thing that makes money it is the money so like what do people do for money well they
• 39:52
  invest in like the s&p because they're like inflation's happening i need to earn on my money
• 39:57
  I don't do you think they study the S&P and they know which companies are in it and they actually
• 40:01
  like analyze it or they're just like I'm just an index fund because I need to get seven percent a
• 40:06
  year on average because we're inflating seven percent a year you know by real metrics not the
• 40:10
  fake CPI metrics and so I need to invest just to like stay afloat right or I'll buy some bonds or
• 40:16
  I'll buy some stocks and bonds nobody's analyzed I mean there's professionals whose jobs that is but
• 40:20
  like every person now has to be like a second job of like what do I do with any savings that I have
• 40:25
  so I don't just can't keep it in cash. I'm going to lose it. Right. So that's,
• 40:29
  so if you have a money that doesn't debase, that actually goes up, you know, in purchasing power
• 40:34
  over time, how much money in stocks and bonds that people don't really want. They're not like,
• 40:40
  it's one thing to invest in your buddy's startup that you think is a great idea. That's an
• 40:43
  investment. Nobody's investing in the S and P they're just parking money there. So they don't
• 40:48
  lose it. So it's the bond market and the stock. It's basically like $300 trillion.
• 40:55
  can flow through Bitcoin's capital structure.
• 40:58
  Whereas Apple, maybe 10 trillion,
• 41:00
  I don't know what else they're going to make.
• 41:02
  It's like, it's not a stock.
• 41:04
  It's like the replacement for what most stocks
• 41:08
  and bonds serve as in terms of for the normal person
• 41:11
  to like park their money so that they have it
• 41:13
  when they need it.
• 41:15
  That's what it is.
• 41:19
  Interesting.
• 41:20
  Yeah, I like it.
• 41:21
  And, you know, I actually,
• 41:23
  uh i keep seeing this come up there's a a person out there and i cannot for the life of me recall
• 41:29
  their name i apologize uh but apparently they've been just you know over time like once a month or
• 41:36
  something like that they throw 30 into bitcoin just 30 bucks just keep throwing 30 bucks in 30
• 41:42
  bucks in 30 bucks in and i i was seeing something the other day the dude's now like net worth even
• 41:49
  with the decline is over a billion dollars that's throwing 30 bucks in when it was like you know 10
• 41:56
  cents i'm sure right well probably not even 10 cents if you did it you know 100 or even 200 even
• 42:03
  500 right now you'd be sitting on you know multiple coins easy right yeah um and so you know i look at
• 42:13
  it you know a lot like that like a little bit here a little bit there um obviously if i see this you
• 42:19
  know, I love the NGD, NGU, right? Number go down, number go up. It's as simple as it gets.
• 42:27
  Every time I see it dip, I'm like, ah, how much can I throw over there? And I just do,
• 42:32
  you know, maybe it's 50 bucks, maybe it's 500, but, you know, throw something in there, right?
• 42:37
  And if it goes down more, okay, but throw another 50 bucks in there or something, you know?
• 42:43
  uh and so far to date yes i've had down periods but i have never been down you know it seems like
• 42:52
  you're doing it wisely and um and dispassionately you know like wild ass guess that's it yeah no no
• 43:00
  no but it's a good heuristic right like it's gone down a bit i'll throw a little bit in you know
• 43:04
  it's sort of like you know you you want it to go up because you have some but why not be opportunistic
• 43:10
  on the downturns. And, you know, they say they buy when it's blood in the streets,
• 43:15
  especially when it's in your own blood. And then people, it goes down and people say,
• 43:19
  oh, no, no, no, no, I'm selling, I'm out. And it's the total wrong approach, right?
• 43:24
  If you believe in the asset, if you think it's going to zero, then obviously get out. But if,
• 43:28
  you know, if you just are uncertain about the timing, it seems like that is just, you know,
• 43:33
  that's as good a heuristic as any. And nobody knows, you know, there's all these chart people,
• 43:37
  they come up, they tell you it's going to be this and they don't know shit.
• 43:41
  They don't know shit. You know, I, there's nothing wrong. I like the charts.
• 43:44
  I like, you know, getting caught up in it myself, but,
• 43:47
  but just don't be deceived that these people know anything.
• 43:50
  They don't know shit.
• 43:54
  How do these other cryptocurrencies factor in?
• 43:56
  And I know there are other ones.
• 43:57
  Don't ask me to name one because I couldn't name one,
• 43:59
  but I know there are other ones and I know they've been introduced and then
• 44:03
  they instantly tanked. And how does that factor in with everything?
• 44:06
  Is there a possibility Bitcoin could be overtaken or is that just because it's the first that it's more valuable or?
• 44:13
  That's a good question. You know, they're affectionately referred to as shit coins by all the maxis.
• 44:18
  And the only one I know really anything about is ETH.
• 44:22
  And I once owned a tiny bit in 2000, you know, a long time ago, but I sold it.
• 44:29
  But I didn't even understand. I was like, why do you even need this?
• 44:33
  It's not money. It's like this weird proof of stake, which is a whole different type of blockchain.
• 44:37
  And it was like somebody was like, oh, well, it's going to be where they're going to digitize all the stock market and they're going to build it on that blockchain.
• 44:46
  And anytime like there's a transaction fee, it's going to accrue to the holders of the ETH, I guess.
• 44:51
  That's the idea. I don't know if that's going to happen. That's what my friend told me.
• 44:55
  I have no interest in that. I look at them as sort of like private companies.
• 45:00
  Like it's a, it's like investing in like a tech company, like a tech startup, you know, big one, I guess now, but it's like a tech startup. Do you believe in these, the founders, they control it. It's not decentralized. It's not really money. Think about Bitcoin. And it's the same with Nostra. It's a protocol. And, and Havoc, you, you referred to it kind of what you said earlier. You said, if I want to post, nobody can stop me from posting, right? It's not Twitter where they're like, oh, you're banned. You're wrong. Think, because that's a centralized platform and they can stop you from posting.
• 45:30
  thing, right? Or Google can shut you out of Gmail, but they can't stop you from sending email,
• 45:34
  right? SMTP, you know, protocol is the P, right? You know more than me. So that is...
• 45:42
  Simple mail transport protocol. There it is. Simple mail transport protocol, right? It's a
• 45:45
  protocol. So Gmail can kick you out of Gmail, but they can't stop you from sending email.
• 45:50
  And Nostra is also a protocol. So you can send it permissionlessly. Bitcoin is also a protocol.
• 45:56
  It's not a platform. Nobody controls it. So these other sort of private company sites,
• 46:01
  type blockchains where there's like people controlling it, they can increase the supply.
• 46:06
  It's like it, those, they may have a use case that, that I, you know, I don't want to say like
• 46:11
  none of them could have value because I really don't know enough about them,
• 46:13
  but that's like investing in somebody's company. Right. But Bitcoin is a money protocol. And
• 46:20
  actually like cash is a protocol. I mean, digital dollars aren't, your bank can shut you out,
• 46:23
  But if you have some $100 bills, right?
• 46:26
  Like anyone will take your bills, right?
• 46:28
  That's a protocol.
• 46:30
  Language is a protocol, like the English language.
• 46:32
  Like, you know, they try to make it a platform where you had to use the right pronouns and you couldn't say this and you couldn't say retarded or something.
• 46:40
  They try to make it a protocol.
• 46:41
  But it's, I mean, they try to make it a platform where they controlled it, you know, but it's a protocol, right?
• 46:47
  If you can understand me and I can understand you, sorry, like we can transact, we can have a conversation.
• 46:53
  So I think the fact that one is a protocol, the other thing is that its network effect is the biggest, the market cap's the biggest.
• 47:02
  And then the biggest thing I think is, you know, Satoshi, nobody knows who that is.
• 47:06
  And it's an immaculate conception of sorts, right?
• 47:08
  Like Bitcoin's born, but it's an effect without a cause, right?
• 47:12
  It's an immaculate conception.
• 47:14
  And the beauty of that is like, okay, well, let's say we wanted to have a competitor.
• 47:18
  Like I want to build a better Bitcoin, which many people have tried.
• 47:21
  And it's going to be even better.
• 47:22
  It's going to be faster.
• 47:23
  it's going to be easier UI, all this stuff. Okay. Well, why would I do that? What would be my motive?
• 47:29
  Right? Like to make money. Well, okay. If I'm going to make money off of it, well, then
• 47:32
  am I controlling it? Like in other words, like, like as soon as you have a non-immaculate
• 47:37
  conception where somebody's the guy motivated to improve it, then all of a sudden you've defeated
• 47:43
  the whole thing that nobody controls it. So, so the reason I don't think it can be beat is anybody
• 47:48
  with a reason to beat it is itself failing to beat it by the very fact that he's got a motive to do
• 47:56
  so. It's already money. It's already there. You can just buy into the network with your money.
• 48:01
  You can mine it. You can buy into it. You can sell something for it. You can work for it.
• 48:06
  Why are you building another one? What's your motive, right? And whatever your motive is,
• 48:10
  it's not going to be the immaculate conception, right? So that's why it's kind of going to not
• 48:15
  be replicated in my opinion there's one perfect the way i like to make an example out of this is
• 48:23
  is the paypal thing so paypal created their own coin right and some yo-yo just typoed into
• 48:32
  existence 300 trillion dollars of their coin which they then came back and destroyed most
• 48:41
  of that coin so you can't do that in bitcoin it's not as far as i'm aware it's not feasible
• 48:49
  to do without breaking the laws of thermodynamics essentially so that's the difference someone else
• 48:57
  creates a coin they can type into existence as much as they want and then destroy it whenever
• 49:03
  they want so you've got essentially manipulatable bitcoin sorry but i'm going to use the same term
• 49:13
  okay so that to be cognizant of your time we are running close to this hour so i actually am going
• 49:20
  to throw a question i didn't talk to you about and and this one's just a fun and just whatever
• 49:26
  you know the answer can be whatever you wanted it to be but okay who is satoshi nakamura
• 49:31
  i have no idea i mean i i know what the con i know the most popular like if there was a poll
• 49:38
  you know it'd be like nick zabo and a couple other guys or you know alleged to maybe be him or
• 49:43
  um hal finney was he was the first guy that you know hal finney died um but i don't know like i'm
• 49:49
  like like i have a lot of ideas about this like talking about this stuff but like there's like
• 49:54
  literally a thousand people on australia that like would know way more about like you know the
• 49:59
  clues and the white paper and like the way he spoke apparently he was likely to be a british
• 50:04
  guy maybe adam bach is considered a but nobody really knows that's the thing i'm gonna go with
• 50:09
  it's george carlin resurrected yeah that's that's that's my statement all right and then the the one
• 50:15
  that i did kind of prep you for is throughout our lives there's someone some you know some figure
• 50:21
  somewhere that made a tremendous impact in our lives and we like to give guests the opportunity
• 50:27
  to shout out that figure, whoever it may be.
• 50:29
  Historical, could be a sixth grade science teacher,
• 50:32
  could be your mother, whoever you want to give a shout out to.
• 50:38
  Well, you know, I just talking about this,
• 50:40
  my grandfather who died when I was like seven and a half,
• 50:45
  he used to bet the football games with me on the phone.
• 50:47
  You know, it's 1977, 1978.
• 50:50
  He died in 1978.
• 50:51
  And it would be like, he'd let me pick the team.
• 50:53
  You know, he'd let me pick whatever team without the point spread.
• 50:55
  and then we would just bet 10 cents per game.
• 50:58
  And pretty soon, you know, I figured out like which teams were good.
• 51:01
  So I was up, you know, a little bit of money, a couple bucks.
• 51:04
  There's one weekend where like all the underdogs won
• 51:07
  and I like lost most of the money back.
• 51:09
  And it was like, this is the lesson.
• 51:11
  Well, I ended up doing my job in fantasy sports
• 51:13
  and I wrote a sports betting column.
• 51:15
  And I just recently took another job, this job-ish, you know,
• 51:19
  like trading these props on these different prediction sites.
• 51:22
  And I was just thinking about my grandfather because of that,
• 51:24
  that, you know, he loved sports, you know, betting on football.
• 51:28
  And I was the one who's willing to listen to him.
• 51:30
  And it just became like the basis for like, you know,
• 51:33
  how I made a living for like 25 years.
• 51:36
  So I'll give him the shout out,
• 51:39
  even though he's been dead for like, you know, 50 years now.
• 51:41
  That's so awesome.
• 51:43
  That's very awesome.
• 51:44
  All right.
• 51:45
  And then last piece is what do you got going on?
• 51:48
  What are you working on?
• 51:49
  Where can people find you?
• 51:51
  So the Chrysalis Podcast,
• 51:54
  fountain is the best way to access it.
• 51:56
  But you can, you know, it's on Apple iTunes or whatever also.
• 52:00
  And if you're into sports, I'm doing baseball.
• 52:03
  I'm actually doing a fantasy baseball draft.
• 52:04
  from now which i gotta prep i gotta cram for that's why i had to get off um but that's at real
• 52:09
  man sports so there's a real man sports podcast and the chris list podcast and uh if you're
• 52:15
  interested uh check those out that's awesome all right well thank you very much for coming on giving
• 52:21
  us some of your time really appreciate it on such short notice as well and another shout out to
• 52:27
  nostor for that one just posted a request take and we is there anyone out there and uh actually
• 52:35
  got quite a few replies so we'll probably have uh at least two more guests coming on to talk
• 52:41
  bitcoin uh one of them is is you know we've got some more maxi type personalities coming on which
• 52:49
  will be neat i'm going to try and get them to tone down into normie world and we'll see how that
• 52:53
  works, but this is going to be fun stuff. You know where you can find us. We're everywhere,
• 53:00
  right? So just give us a search. We're now on fountain.fm, just like Chris. So come join
• 53:08
  NOSCUR. Come sign up for fountain.fm. You can give us some value for value if you feel we've
• 53:14
  earned it from you. As always, give us a like, thumbs up if you liked us. If you didn't, give
• 53:19
  us a thumbs down. Throw a comment in there. Tell us we suck, whatever you want to do.
• 53:23
  Got ideas for a guest or a topic?
• 53:25
  Throw that in there as well.
• 53:27
  And remember, wherever you are, whenever you're watching this, have an amazing day.
• 53:36
  Thank you for stopping by, Chris.
• 53:37
  See you, everybody.
• 53:37
  Thanks, fellas.
• 53:38
  Appreciate it.
• 53:53
  .