Latest / Pod Save America / "Willy Wonka and The Covid Factory.”

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"Willy Wonka and The Covid Factory.” · Pod Save America

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: And do you see how many crooked ballots are being
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: found and turned back in and fraudulent?
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Just what I said. Then they'll say, he doesn't believe
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: in freedom. I totally believe in freedom. That's called freedom.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: What we're doing is freedom.
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Jon Lovett.
• 0:23
  Speaker 4: I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: On today's pod, Lovett talks to Congresswoman Katie Porter about
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: the pandemic, inequality, and the election. Before that, we'll talk
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: through Donald Trump's return to the campaign trail, the latest
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: and Congress's COVID relief negotiations, and how Democrats should handle
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: the Supreme Court confirmation hearings that have already begun today.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: One exciting announcement before we start. Vote Save America's Build
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: Your Own Ballot tool is now live in all 50 states.
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: Here's what you do.
• 0:48
  Speaker 5: You go to.
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: Votesaveamerica.com slash ballot. You enter the address where you're registered
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: to vote, and we will give you all the information
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: you need about the exact races and ballot measures you'll
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: be voting on. You can pull it up while you
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: fill out your ballot at home. Or you can save
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: it on your phone and bring it with you if
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: you're voting in person. Again, go to votesaveamerica.com slash ballot
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: now to learn more. This is like one of the
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: coolest things Vote Save America does. We did it in
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: the midterms. And the amount of information is just mind-blowing.
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: And the team put so much work into it. And
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: it is fantastic. And everything is double-checked. And I'm going
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: to use it to fill out my ballot.
• 1:23
  Speaker 4: I literally held off filling out mine because I wanted
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: the ballot tool to be live because it's that helpful.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: I need the ballot tool to tell me whether or
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: not I think Uber should stop people from having health care.
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: All right, let's get to the news. There are 22
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: days left to vote in the 2020 election. Donald Trump
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: is trailing Joe Biden by double digits and still recovering
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: from a COVID infection that he contracted after throwing a
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: super spreader event at the White House. And so his
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: next political move was obvious. Kick off a full week
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: of swing state MAGA rallies with another crowded White House
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: event and a doctor's note that said the president is, quote,
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: no longer considered a transmission risk from the same guy
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: who already admitted to lying to us about Trump needing oxygen. Tommy,
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: first of all, what do we know and what don't
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: we know about Donald Trump's current condition?
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: So the letter tells us that he is no longer
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: considered a transmission risk to others, but it did not
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: say that Trump has tested negative. And you'd think that
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: they would have released that fact because it's the thing
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: Trump wants to hear more than anything else. We know
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: that as of Saturday, he hadn't had a fever for
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: 24 hours, but the White House won't say when the
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: actual start date was of his symptoms. We don't know
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: what his lung scans look like. We don't know whether
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: there were negative side effects from all the drugs he
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: was taking. And we know that we probably shouldn't trust
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: all of this information because the doctor lied previously and
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: the doctors at Walter Reed were all forced to sign
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: an NDA or else they weren't allowed to treat the president.
• 2:50
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: And as you, I mean, because they said that about
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: the fever and That means that there was a previous
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: note that he didn't have a fever, like last week,
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: which means that there was a new fever this week.
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: And there were new symptoms this week, which is like
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: when you read between the lines of the letter, you
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: find that out. So on Friday, Trump did some swing
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: voter outreach on Rush Limbaugh's show where he said– You know,
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: I was asking the doctors today, how bad was I?
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: They said, you could have been very bad. You were
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: going into a very bad phase. But then on Sunday,
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: during his second interview in one week with Fox News'
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: Maria Bartiromo, he said this.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Again, I think I would have been fine. You know,
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: I'm in good health. I think I would have been fine.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: And people have to realize that. And once you do recover,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: you're immune. So now you have a president who doesn't
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: have to hide in a basement like his opponent. You
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: have a president who is immune, which is a big,
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: I think, which is a very important thing, frankly.
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: So, Lovett, the Trump campaign is pushing this line that
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: the president has personal experience with COVID and understands what
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: people are going through. You see any messaging issues with that?
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, he hosted a series of super spreader
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: events at the White House. It caused dozens of people
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: to become sick. He then claimed to have now understood
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: what COVID was all about, and then immediately resumed hosting
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: super spreader events at the White House and across the country.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: He's on his way to hosting a few in other
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: COVID hotspots across the country right now. There was always
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: a conflict for Trump, right, when he got COVID, because
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: there are two things he wants to do at once.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: One is to defeat the virus strongly. You know, he
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: wants to say that he overcame it. He wants to
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: say that it could have been very, very bad, but
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: he's very, very strong and therefore defeated it. He also,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: for his ego, needs to act as if his denials
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: of its seriousness all along were true, that it actually
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: isn't a big deal. And sure enough, he said them both.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: In some interviews, he could have died. In other interviews,
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: he would have been fine. He can just do both
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: because he's relying on the fact that he can just
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: sort of spread various messages all at once on various
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: platforms that people won't question him on, whether it's Rush
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: Limbaugh or Maria Bartiromo. As for his message of, look,
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: you don't want a president who hasn't had COVID. I
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: don't think that that's, I don't, like, I don't think, like,
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: you know, Illinois is going to hell and I had
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: COVID is not like the economic message I think he
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: should probably be closing with if you want him to win.
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's like, essentially the message is you shouldn't
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: be afraid of COVID, which almost killed me, but for
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: the special antibody cocktail I received only because I'm the president. Now,
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: please excuse me while I go infect some more voters.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's really like it obviously look like
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: we are through the looking glass. Like this is not
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: politics anymore. This is we are in another kind of conversation.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: Like Chris Christie got out of the hospital like a
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: week later. Like he was very, very sick, potentially on
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: the verge of death. Like Mike Lee still contagious, currently
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: in a hearing spouting off about the Constitution. Like we
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: are in a deeply strange political moment where, you know,
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: we're not just talking about policy anymore. These are human
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: beings putting other people at risk just to be in
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: their presence because their egos and their politics demands that
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: they deny that COVID is serious.
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: That's all.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: And like Tommy, you went through sort of the doctor's
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: note on the physical conditions and how Trump's doing with COVID.
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: Like we haven't even gotten into questions over his mental
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: state right now with all the steroids he's on and the,
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: some of the things he said over the last week,
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: which of course is, four years into this, we're all
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: very used to Trump saying completely crazy shit and none
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: of us can diagnose his mental condition, nor should we.
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: But there's some concerns.
• 6:40
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah.
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: I mean, the message seems to be that if you
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: have a private helicopter to take you to your private
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: suite to see your personal doctors to get experimental drugs,
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: you're going to be fine. But, you know, in the
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: middle of that, there was some rather unhinged behavior as
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: part of whatever his closing argument is apparently going to be.
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: Well, We just got to note, like in the New
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: York Times story over the weekend.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: Got to note it. Got to note it.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: Got to note this.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: Got to talk about it.
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: Great anecdote that Maggie Haberman reported. In several phone calls
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: last weekend from the presidential suite at Walter Reed National
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: Military Medical Center, Mr. Trump shared an idea he was considering.
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: When he left the hospital, he wanted to appear frail
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: at first when people saw him, according to people with
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: knowledge of the conversations. But underneath his button down dress shirt,
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: he would wear a Superman T-shirt and which he would
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: reveal as a symbol of strength when he ripped open
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: the top layer. He ultimately did not go ahead with
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: the stunt. He wanted a Willy Wonka this.
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: So was it Willy Wonka or was it more of
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: like a Kaiser Soce usual suspects where you like limp
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: and limp and limp and then all of a sudden
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: you're good to go and you smash the cup on
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: the ground? Hard one to visualize for me.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: I want to make two quick points about this. Obviously,
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: this is very stupid. We live in a very stupid time.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: Point number one, Gene Wilder, Little fact about Willy Wonka
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: and the Chocolate Factory. Willy Wonka only accepted the movie
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: if he could do that stunt at the beginning.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: Really?
• 8:03
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: And the reason he said that, this may be apocryphal,
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: who gives a shit, but this is my understanding, that
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: he wanted to do, the only way he would agree
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: to do the movie is if he got to do
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: that stunt. And the reason he wanted to do that
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: stunt is because he said, after I do that as
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: this character, you'll never know if you can believe this
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: character ever again. That was his goal. His goal was,
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: that's why he did it. That's one. Two, If you
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: defeat an illness with grit and determination and you're getting
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: a little welcome home party from your family and you
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: want to make a little joke with a Superman tea,
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: I say have at it. Me too. I say have
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: at it.
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: I love it.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: But you don't do it if you put a bunch
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: of other people at risk and your recklessness almost killed people.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: You don't do it if you get out of the
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: hospital after you drove drunk into a school bus. which
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: is basically what Trump has done with COVID. So no,
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: you don't get to brag about having overcome it. You
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: hurt a bunch of people.
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: Well, it just, it's so very Trump. What does he
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: really care about? He cares about looking weak. He doesn't
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: care about all the people he put at risk. It's
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: indicative of the entire presidency and his entire life.
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: I think it would have been awesome and it was
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: a missed opportunity and you guys are wrong.
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: We'd be looking at a two-point margin in the polls
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: right now. 538 would be up to a 27% chance.
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: Can you do this, Joe?
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: Chairs open it like Hulk Hogan.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump discovers Joe Biden's kryptonite.
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: Tommy, beyond COVID, what is Trump's closing argument? I heard
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: him yelling about court packing, Hillary's emails, prosecuting Obama, the
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: election being rigged, the debates being rigged. Anything I'm missing? Yeah,
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: let's think about it.
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: So it's like 30 minutes of steroid-infused improv on Maria
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: Bartiromo's weekday show. That included calls for Bill Barr to
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: arrest Obama and Biden and an attack on his own
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: secretary of state for not releasing Hillary's emails. There was
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: a two-hour call into a Rush Limbaugh show because all
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: the undecided voters are probably listening to Rush. There was
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: the Saturday joint Blexit law enforcement event at the White House.
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: There was supposed to be 2,000 people, but a couple
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: hundred showed up and they were paid to be there.
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: there were attacks at that speech about the radical socialist
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: left and all of the normal hits on fracking. And
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: it was a big hatchet violation. Then he called into
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: Maria Bartiromo's weekend show to make sure he didn't miss
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: any of her viewers who remained undecided.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: So, you know, now he's in Florida tonight, I think.
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: Tomorrow he's in Pennsylvania.
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: And he's tweeting specific attacks about California and New York
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: and Illinois going to hell. So I don't know, it's
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: not all that coherent.
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry if I didn't describe it well.
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: I'm not sure there's a thread that gets you through it.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: You boys are falling into the trap, not understanding what's
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: going on once again. Pompeo is going to release those
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Hillary Clinton emails, and all of a sudden, you're going
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: to see Hillary's numbers in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan crater.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: All right? Hillary is toast.
• 10:56
  Speaker 5: She's toast.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: She is toast. Once Pompeo releases those emails.
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: Here's the problem with us laughing about what a fucking
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: disaster Donald Trump and his campaign are right now. Every
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: time we do it, I think to myself- I want
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: to hold a couple ideas in my head. One, which
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: is he can still win.
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: Of course.
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: Of course he can. He can definitely still win. But
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: you know what? Even if he does win, this is
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: still stupid. This is this is still a fucking horrendous
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: way to close your campaign when you know that you
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: are at least down with independent voters, swing voters, everyone else.
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: Like he is retreating to the safe space of right
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: wing media. He is firing up the base.
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: He's doing all that kind of stuff. But it is bad.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: It's also evil, by the way. Like it's also threatening
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: to jail his opponents. Like, look, I've said everything is
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: very stupid and very important and it sucks.
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but also 300,000 people watch Maria Bartiromo's show. He
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: gave her a full half hour and then called in
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: again a couple of days later. Like I agree that
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: he could still win for a variety of reasons, but
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: that was not a good use of time. No one
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: will ever convince me otherwise.
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: He just canceled. He pulled out of a debate this
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: week that would have been 60, 70 million people would
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: have been able to see him because he didn't want
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: to do it virtually. Because he didn't want to be
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: on Zoom like all of us. Look how much we
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: love Zoom.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: He didn't want to be on Zoom because it's an
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: advertisement for his failures. He didn't want to be on
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Zoom because he's, you know, Captain Contagio stuck in the
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: White House unable to defeat the virus. So, like, no. Yeah,
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, I get why he pulled out of the debate.
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: He's tweeting about General Flynn. Why are you tweeting about
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: General Flynn for, man?
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that guy's trying to stay under the radar so
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: he doesn't get arrested again.
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: I keep trying to think back to 2016 and like,
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: what is different now? And I do, I remember a
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: hint of a message from him at the end of 2016.
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: And it was, you know, the global elite are coming
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: for you and I'm the only guy who can change Washington.
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: There was still a lot of craziness, a lot about
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: Hillary should go to jail and all this kind of stuff.
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: But there was a, at least with some of his
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: ads too, and I'm sure his ads are smarter than
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: what he's saying every day right now, But there was
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: just there was a message about him being an outsider
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: that was going to change Washington and fix immigration and
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: all this stuff. And that really did come through in
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: the last couple of weeks of 2016. And maybe there's
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: still time for it, but I don't sense it now.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: I think, look, if we got to, you know, he
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: can win. The forces of propaganda and cultural decline are
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: still very much alive. But I do think what if
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: I were to pick like one moment that to me
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: signaled how we ended up where we are right now.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: There was a moment where Trump was supposed to roll
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: out his new slogan, which was keep America great. And
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: they quickly realized that saying keep America great in the
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: middle of the greatest economic crisis in a hundred years
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: during a pandemic he failed to resolve was not a
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: great idea. So they, they retreated back to.
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: Make America great again.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: And I think in that you see the core underlying
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: problem that they have, which is what are they supposed
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: to fucking say? Give us a redo Mulligan Mulligan on
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: the last four years.
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: So no message, you know, He could have come out
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: of COVID and said, I recovered. You know, I really
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: understand what this disease is now. I understand what people
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: are going through. I'm going to get going. And we're
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: about to talk about this. I'm going to go work
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: with Congress on a COVID relief package to help struggling Americans.
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: We're going to do testing. And I'm going to get
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: us through this just like I got us through this, right? Like,
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: would it turn things around? Maybe not. But like, it's something.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if he became a different person, he'd have had
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: a real shot.
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: Right. Well, so much of this, so much of this
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: debate is about can he become a different person?
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: But he was the same person in 16. And what
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: he did well then was he made it about Hillary Clinton.
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: He's never been capable of making this race about anyone
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: but himself in his failed record. He's never had a
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: clear message about Biden. Biden's either trapped in the basement
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: or he's sick with dementia or he's all these different
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: sort of flailing, you know, captive of the radical left.
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: None of it's coherent. None of it is working. The
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: law and order message isn't working. It's just a mess.
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: It's been a mess.
• 14:54
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: So we've talked before about how the one issue that's
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: keeping Trump alive is the economy where voters generally approve
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: of his performance. But the president has put that advantage
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: in jeopardy by bungling the negotiations over a new economic
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: relief bill after tweeting that he was ending the negotiations
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: last week. Trump has since reversed himself and proposed a $ 1. 8
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: trillion package, which is more than the $ 350 billion Republicans
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: offered in July, but less than the $ 3 trillion HEROES
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: Act that House Democrats already passed. Nancy Pelosi called Trump's
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: proposal grossly inadequate, while Senate Republicans revolted against the White
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: House offer. According to the New York Times, Senator Marsha
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: Blackburn said on a call that accepting a bill with
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: Nancy Pelosi's support would deflate the base and amount to a, quote,
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: death knell for the party's hopes of keeping the Senate. Lovett,
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: what happens if there's no deal?
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: If there's no deal, you know, right now, the only
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: hope we have is that some vulnerable Republicans feel some
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: pressure to do something before the election. The fear is
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: even in the best case scenario where Joe Biden can
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: win the presidency, we can keep the House and win
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: the Senate. You will be unable to pass a significant
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: relief bill until after Joe Biden becomes president because the
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: Republicans will want to saddle him with the pain of
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: the downturn as well as the cost of the stimulus bill.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: And so people that are in desperate, desperate need right
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: now who are running out of options right now will
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: have absolutely no relief from the federal government for months.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: And it's incredibly dangerous and harrowing for people that are
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: like on a knife's edge right now.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: Tommy, why do you think Donald Trump wants a deal now,
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: at least in this hour that we're recording this, but
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: not Senate Republicans? What are the political considerations driving their
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: position on this? I mean.
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: This is a hard one to answer because it is
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: so irrational. I mean, I think part of it is
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: that the Senate Republicans have no coherent leadership from either
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: Trump or McConnell, right? Trump changes his mind hourly, so
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: they don't want to embrace a position that he might
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: then go against. There were all these leaks from over
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: the weekend where you have Mark Meadows, the chief of staff,
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: talking to these Senate Republicans. Mark Meadows isn't like a
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: coalition builder either, right? He's an arsonist. He's an obstructionist. Also,
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: why isn't Trump on that call with these senators showing leadership?
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: Then you have Mitch McConnell, who only cares about the
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: Supreme Court. I'm sure he'd be happy to lose a
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: couple of seats as long as he's got another justice
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: to brag about. So you're reading these leaks where Republicans
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: are saying they're worried about deficits and debts again, and
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: they're worried about some new iteration of the Tea Party
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: and that they could get in trouble politically for being
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: in favor of a big spending bill. To me, that's
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: one of the dumber things I've ever heard. The Tea
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: Party was never about deficits. It was a bunch of
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: astroturfed events paid for by corporations. about how Obama was bad.
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: But I guess maybe they've made their bet on Fox
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: News and with their supporters about how this bailout is
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: just for Democrat-run states and therefore must be bad, and
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: they can't seem to walk back from that. But yeah,
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: I mean, the implications for regular people, you're going to
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: see bankruptcies. You're going to see people losing their homes.
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: Half of all small businesses think they need more help
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: from the government to survive. 1.5 million state and local
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: government jobs have been lost. like unemployment benefits are down
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: two thirds for 25 million people who have been laid off.
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: So like we're in a very, very dire place right now.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, we were talking about 2016. One advantage
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: Trump had in 2016 is that voters at least perceived
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: he was more economically populist than a lot of Republicans.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: He made all kinds of false promises about protecting Social
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: Security and Medicare and health care. And he talked about
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: maybe taxing hedge fund owners and Wall Street and None
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: of that has come to bear during his presidency. But
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: there is a strain. There are some Republicans, the Josh Hollies,
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: people like that in the Senate, who see the future
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: of the Republican Party as maybe we should be more
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: economically populist and we can be as xenophobic and culturally
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: right-wing and racist as we want to be. And that's
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: a coalition. But this goes to show that most establishment
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: Republicans still aren't there. Most establishment Republicans, like Mitch McConnell
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: and the rest of them, still would rather just push
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: tax cuts for super rich people and absolutely fucking nothing
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: for a bunch of Americans struggling in a recession through
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: no fault of their own because it's the middle of
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: a pandemic. And like, I mean, I really think the
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: only people worse at politics than Donald Trump are establishment
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: Republicans in Congress. This is like the Paul Ryan, Mitch
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: McConnell wing of the party that somehow thinks if they
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: pass a $ 1. 8 trillion stimulus bill in the middle of
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: a pandemic, that the price tag is going to be
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: more offensive to their voters than actually lifting up the
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: economy and saving a bunch of workers.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: I also think it's potentially even more cynical than that.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: They recognize that there's a need for a big stimulus.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: They see their majority going out the window, and they'd
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: rather put two trillion dollars on the Democrat ledger than
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: on their own before they start complaining about the debt
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: and the deficit again. And they'd rather hamstring a Joe
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: Biden administration in the first hundred days with an even
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: deeper downturn than give him a tailwind so that he
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: can pursue some progressive priorities. So I think there is
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: a it's even more cynical.
• 20:03
  Speaker 5: That's all.
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: I think that's that's a big part of it. How
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: hard should Democrats try to make a deal here? Um, should,
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: should Pelosi accept the white house offer and then put
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: the ball in McConnell's court?
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: Tommy, what do you think? I, this is hard, but
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: I come down on the side of yes. Like we
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: should just be, I recognize it's weird politics. Democrats are
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: trying to help improve the economy for Donald Trump right before, uh,
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: the election. But I worry about inaction doing irreparable harm
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: to millions of families and And then also the economy
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: generally and whether or not Joe Biden wins. I don't
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: think that's a good thing for anyone, including our political system.
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: We should also be clear that Pelosi is not playing super,
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: super hardball. She came down from $ 3 trillion to $ 2. 2 trillion.
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: She didn't put in place provisions that say if the
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: economy continues to struggle, unemployment insurance would automatically be extended.
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: That's something a lot of people want to prevent Republicans
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: from being able to hamstring Joe Biden if he is
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: elected and we don't get the Senate. She didn't put
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: a ton of money in there for vote by mail,
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: even though we probably need it. And so, you know,
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: I think she's worried about like state and local governments collapsing.
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: We all should be worried about that because we're Democrats.
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: We believe that government should work. It should do things
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: for people. These are the people we've all got into
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: politics to help the people who are out of work
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: right now. And so I don't know how the politics
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: will cut, but I like the idea of doing nothing
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: until you know, January or February with COVID cases increasing
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: with people, you know, really hurting. I don't know. I just,
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: I can't stomach that.
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I think this is a tough one too,
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: because I do think there's a lot of politics that
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: play into this, but I think on the substance, the
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: absolute right thing to do is to try to get
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: a deal because you're right. People, people struggling and hurting
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: until February when things are only going to get worse
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: is too much to stomach. So if you can get
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: a deal, you get a deal. Now let's imagine she
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: gets a deal. Let's imagine it passes. Um, Donald Trump
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: spends the last couple of weeks saying he got a
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: big bipartisan COVID relief deal to save the economy. What
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: does that do to the election?
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: Maybe it's too late at that point. Maybe people have
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: already made up their minds. Maybe people give Democrats credit
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: for working with Republicans. But I think it's a risk.
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: It's definitely a risk. Now, what do I think is
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: the most likely outcome? Pelosi passes something through the House
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: that the White House has agreed to. And then Mitch
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: doesn't have the votes in the Senate, which clearly he
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: doesn't because that's why he's been trying to avoid this.
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: And if you read all the stories about that call
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: with the Senate Republicans, that Marsha Blackburn quote wasn't the
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: only one. There were a whole bunch of them saying
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: absolutely not. Then Pelosi throws it to McConnell and McConnell
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: kills it. Well, then we tried to do the right thing.
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: And the politics at that point are great because now
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: Mitch McConnell and the Senate Republicans single-handedly killed the COVID deal.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think it argues for Democrats not
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: giving more than what they've already given and holding the
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: line for a really, really strong package. Because I asked
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Katie Porter this, I asked it in the most cynical
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: way possible. It was embarrassing how she answered for me.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: But the point that she made is, it's actually harmful
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: to keep coming back, right? Like we need to give
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: people certainty, need to like, if you just give a
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: little bit of money to local government or just to
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: give a little bit of money to businesses, they don't
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: have the certainty they need to not lay people off,
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: to keep people on the payrolls, et cetera. So like
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: we need to do a really big package. The only
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: reason to do it now is because you need something
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: that's gonna last for a long time. And so, yeah,
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: like I think the politics of we put forward a
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: really good deal and force Republicans to go along with
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: it is the only way to make some kind of
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: political change hay out of passing something while Donald Trump
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: is still president.
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: And if they walk away, well, they walk away. The
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: other thing that gives me a little hope that he
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: wouldn't use this to great political advantage is when has
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: he ever driven a consistent message about policy? When has
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: Donald Trump run on an accomplishment well? They passed a
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: big coronavirus relief bill, what, March, April? He never talks
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: about it. So I guess I'm just less worried about
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: his ability to leverage this in a way that's consistent
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: when he'll probably pass it and then that same day
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: have you know, Pompeo lock up Hillary Clinton or somebody
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: in the cabinet.
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: Look, you could also see like Joe Biden at the
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: last debate with him, if we have a last debate, saying,
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: you know, yeah, you tried to kill the deal single-handedly.
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: And luckily for us, luckily for the country, Democrats fought
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: really hard to get a very good deal. And, you know,
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: just take credit for it.
• 24:40
  Speaker 6: All right.
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: Today is also the first day of hearings on Amy
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: Coney Barrett's nomination to the Supreme Court. And over the weekend,
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: we got a preview of her opening statement where she
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: claimed to believe in an independent, nonpolitical judiciary. She said
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: policy decisions and value judgments of government must be made
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: by the political branches elected by and accountable to the people.
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: The public should not expect the courts to do so,
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: and courts should not try. If you didn't know much
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: about Amy Coney Barrett's views or her background, and this
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: statement was the first you've heard from her, which it
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: was for a lot of people who watched today, You
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: would think she's some independent minded right down the middle judge. Tommy,
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: how should Democrats handle that?
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: I mean, look, I read her statement.
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: She said nothing.
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: There were like five paragraphs about her family, which is
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: all well and good and nice. But it mentioned how
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: much one of her kids deadlifts. There was nothing about
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: what she thinks about the law. It was the same
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: right wing thing. judicial rhetoric that tries to make them
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: sound like nonpartisan judicial robots who just call balls and strikes.
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: And that's how the court should work. It's total bullshit.
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: I think the Democrats have done a good job focusing
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: on the Affordable Care Act. They should focus on the
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: fact that she might overturn Roe versus Wade and stay
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: focused on all the policy implications of the way she
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: might rule. I think they can also talk about the
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: fact that this is a rushed process that is happening
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: in a way that is completely unethical and outrageous and
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: stick to that. Republicans clearly want to manufacture some attack
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: on her religion. They want to manufacture some sort of
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: attack on her gender or her family. We shouldn't play
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: that game. It's not what's happening anyway. You have like
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: hack idiots like Hugh Hewitt tweeting that the left despises
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: every person of any faith, right? Like that's for a
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: bunch of defenders of religion. They sure are trying to
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: push it into the political arena to get pilloried. Right.
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: But like, let's just not take the bait there.
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: Well, what does it say about how Republicans sort of
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: view the court in these hearings that like. Before they
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: pick a nominee, they have all these litmus tests. You
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: must criminalize abortion. You must have all these positions. They
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: say we're going to pick people who will do X, Y,
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: and Z policy outcome. Then once the nomination happens, it's, oh,
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: what are you talking about? No policy positions from us.
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: Just balls and strikes down the middle, just as independent
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: as they come. I don't... Politics? What are you talking
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: about politics? I've never been political.
• 27:05
  Speaker 6: Look.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: I have decided to subject myself with weeks of embarrassing
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: accusations of undeniable hypocrisy, risk life and limb, put my
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: staff at risk, do this in the middle of an election,
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: bring COVID positive Mike Lee and COVID curious Lindsey Graham
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: into the Capitol to have a hearing and because we
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: just don't know what kind of judge she'll be. And
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: the mystery of that, the excitement of finding out is
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: just too much for us. We really want to see
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: how this thing turns out. No, they know what she's
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: going to do. What matters is not what she says
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: in these hearings. Like we've been through this before during
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: the hearings, their job is to be as inane and
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: innocuous and banal as humanly possible. That's the game we're
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: playing right now to, to put forward kind of personal
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: values in place of radical judicial philosophy. You know, She
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: has written her views down. They are available to us.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: They cannot be denied. She has taken a pretty clear
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: position on believing Roe versus Wade was wrongly decided. She's
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: taken a clear position on the Affordable Care Act. She's
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: taken a clear position on originalism, which is the same
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: radical view that Scalia held. She wrote a piece for
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: a law journal where she discussed basically how her originalism
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: can live in a practical... world where all these, to
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: her mind, unconstitutional statutes and laws and rules are in place.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: And basically in that piece, she talks about how you
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: reckon with the fact that we're not just talking about
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: the Affordable Care Act. We're talking about the Social Security Administration.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: We're talking about the fucking Louisiana purchase and paper currency. Uh, and,
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: and all kinds of aspects, the 14th amendment being technically, uh,
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: not ratified, um, uh, legally like the view she holds
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: are the logical conclusion of originalism and everything that we're
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: seeing is a kind of dance to hide that radicalism,
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: a project that they've been engaged in for 40 years.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: Does that mean she will immediately begin overturning every single precedent?
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: putting that originalism in practice? No, they are cynical operators
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: who do their best to overturn as much as they
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: possibly can while legitimizing their viewpoint. But there's no reason
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: to pretend that what we're seeing is a legitimate exploration
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: of her views. We know what her views are. They
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: are clear.
• 29:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: This morning as the hearings are going on, I see
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: some reporters tweeting like, wow, the Democrats are unbelievably disciplined
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: on healthcare right now. And they're not even bringing up
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: a lot of other issues and stuff like that. It's like, yeah, good. Finally,
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: That's because, like, for voters, like voters are not going
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: to get into a deep debate about originalism and textualism
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: and all that stuff. But they are going to know
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: that she has views on the Affordable Care Act, which
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: is that it was wrongly decided when it was upheld
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: as constitutional. We know that for sure. And there's a
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: case coming the week after the election to decide whether
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: it's constitutional again. That's what you need to know about
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: Amy Coney Barrett. And like Mitch McConnell very well probably
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: has the votes to confirm her and he makes the
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: rules in the Senate. So as much as we can
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: slow this down, we can try, but he can always
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: change the rules at the end. So it's a very
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: good chance he confirms her. But at the very least,
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: we want voters to know what's at stake in this
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: election and what Republicans will do and what she will
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: do if she gets on the court.
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: It's a little thing, but because her opening statement said nothing,
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: that's all we can go with. But she said in
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: her opening statement that she hadn't sought out this job.
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: I was like, You have been groomed for this job
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: for decades. Are you telling me you spend every weekend
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: with those goobers over at the Federalist Society just because
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: you thought it was a good time? That's what you
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: wanted to do? No, these are little right-wing Republican robots
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: that have been grown through this Republican ecosystem on the
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: right with their judicial system. you know, processes and thrust
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: upon us to do incredibly radical things. And they are
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: nice people who have families who, you know, come off
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: as friendly in these hearings. But yeah, the implications for
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: how she would rule are massive. And I'm glad Democrats
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: are focused on that.
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: So cynical, Tommy. I think her lifelong dream was to
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: just be a law professor.
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: Right. For sure. For sure.
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: That's what she told us.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Like, I will say, like, I think she is a
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: sincere originalist. But we just shouldn't pretend that that's not
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: radical and outside of what Americans want from the judiciary.
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: We just don't need to pretend.
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: So if Barrett is confirmed, we'll have the most extreme
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: right wing court we've ever had that could last for decades.
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: The only option for Democrats at that point would be
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: to pass legislation that reforms the court in some way,
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: either by changing its size or instituting some kind of
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: term limits. There are plenty of different reform options out there.
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: Joe Biden keeps getting criticism from Republicans and question from
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: reporters about whether he's considering something like this. Here's how
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: he answered over the weekend.
• 31:42
  Speaker 7: The only court packing going on right now. What's going
• 31:47
  Speaker 7: on with the Republicans packing the court now? It's not
• 31:50
  Speaker 7: constitutional what they're doing. We should be focused on what's
• 31:54
  Speaker 7: happening right now. And the fact is that the only
• 31:57
  Speaker 7: packing going on is this court is being packed now
• 32:02
  Speaker 7: by the Republicans after the vote has already begun. I'm
• 32:06
  Speaker 7: going to stay focused on it so we don't take
• 32:09
  Speaker 7: our eyes off the ball here.
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: That was Joe Biden from inside an airplane engine.
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: Glad we're stealing that little tendency from Trump to do
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: it with the airplane engines on. That's great.
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: What do you think of that answer, Lovett? Has Biden
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: landed on a good answer?
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: I think it's a great answer. I've seen a few
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: people make this point today, and it's actually, I think,
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: a really good one. I think that's the right thing
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: to say. They are packing the court. These are people
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: that wanted to shrink. They successfully shrunk the size of
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: the Supreme Court In 2016, they attempted to shrink the
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: size of some lower courts when they didn't want liberal
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: appointees to shift the court to the left. You know, look,
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: we just saw a debate where Mike Pence was asked
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: point blank, if Roe versus Wade is repealed, what do
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: you want to happen? Now, he has a clear position
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: on this. They want to criminalize abortion. That is their view.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: That is their view that they that's what they've been
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: fighting for for 40 fucking years. That's what they're trying
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: to do. And if and if we're really going to
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: be in another endless news cycle about asking Joe Biden
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: about this perspective question around the Supreme Court, when the
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: politics are obvious to every single person asking the question,
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: why he doesn't want to answer what the implications are
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: for her confirmation or lack of confirmation. We really need
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: to make sure that the stakes of what happens on
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: the court, not just who's on the court, but what
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: the court does are elevated. And that means driving a
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: similar question at the Republicans. What do you want to
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: do if Roe versus Wade is overturned? You want to
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: criminalize abortion. That is what you are driving towards. That
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: is the goal of this project. And I think we
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: should not let them off the hook. We need to
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: direct that question at them because that's what they've been
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: doing to us. They decided that this is the most
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: important issue. Well, I think there's another important issue about
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: the Supreme Court.
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: Tommy, obviously, like, you know, Republicans have made this court
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: packing thing an issue for the last several days. Reporters
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: are happy to bite. They've become obsessed with this as well.
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: Why do you think what do you think the obsession
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: around this is? Do you think it's warranted?
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: You know, I think it's an important question that's relevant.
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: It's totally fair game to ask Joe Biden this. I
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: think that they haven't handled it particularly well. So it's
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: going to come up again and again. I also think that, like,
• 34:10
  Speaker 4: you know, reporters probably feel like they need to be
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: tough on Biden because they've been tough on Trump in
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: a lot of ways. But my answer to this, if
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: I were Joe Biden, is that the courts are already packed.
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: McConnell stole the Supreme Court seat from Obama. Trump confirmed
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: 30 appellate judges from 2017 to 2018. Obama confirmed two
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: from 2015 to 2016. And the reason is because McConnell
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: refused to move the process and he just stole them
• 34:34
  Speaker 4: for Trump. And to Leavitt's point, in 2016, John McCain
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: suggested that the Republican Senate might be justified in refusing
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: to confirm any nomination that Hillary Clinton made to the
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: Supreme Court for four years. Richard Burr said similar things.
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: The National Review proposed shrinking the Supreme Court down to
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: six justices. Tom Cotton put forward a bill to reduce
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: the size of the D.C. Circuit from 11 to 9.
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: So none of these things are outside the mainstream. None
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: of these things are new. I just think we have
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: to do a better job reminding the press and the
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: Republican Party that these are ideas that they've entertained, they've introduced.
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: This is a totally reasonable conversation that they've tried to
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: have for a long time. By the way, Barrett got
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: her seat on the Seventh Circuit because the Senate blocked
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: Obama's choice to fill the open seat for an entire year.
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: That's why we're here.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: Courts are packed.
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: I mean, I do think I would take it out
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: of some of these process arguments too, right? It's sort
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: of what you were saying, Levitt. We know what a
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: right-wing court will do. We know what they believe. We
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: know what decisions they'll make. We already have evidence of that.
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: They're going to gut the Voting Rights Act. They're going
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: to prevent the government from doing anything to stop carbon pollution,
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: to do anything about climate change. They're trying to criminalize abortion.
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: A good number of them didn't want gay marriage. They
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: want to strike down the Affordable Care Act, a bunch
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: of them. They want to actually prevent government from doing
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: any kind of regulation of corporations at all. So if
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: we have a 6-3 court, those are the policy consequences.
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: Those are the consequences that will cause millions of Americans
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: to suffer, right? And so if I'm Joe Biden, I'm
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: going to say, I'm going to fight to stop that.
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: I'm fighting to stop that now by trying to stop
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: Amy Coney Barrett from getting a seat on the court.
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: And I will continue to fight that as president to
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: make sure that we actually have an independent, balanced judiciary again,
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: not like we've had for a long time. That's what
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: I'm fighting for. And we're still in this nomination fight.
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: And once I'm president, we'll figure out what to do
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: about it.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: One of the things you see too, when you look
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: at like Amy Coney Barrett's writings about the law is,
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: I think they want to overturn the ACA. I think
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: they want to overturn Roe. But she may find ways
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: to uphold precedents that her originalism tells her are unconstitutional.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: But what is very clear is, that they view it
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: with an incredible urgency to prevent the passage of laws
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: that they view violate originalism, that she will be an easy,
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: easy no vote on every form of progressive legislation we're
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: trying to do. Just an easy, reliable no.
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: She is as activist a judge as you could get.
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: And what Republicans used to say is they don't want
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: to legislate from the bench and they have completely given
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: up on that talking point because it's all they do.
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: That's where all their wins come from. I mean, I
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: think the thing worth noting is Dave Weigel was tweeting
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: about this great reporter for The Washington Post, a bunch
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: of others. No voters are asking this question. No voters
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: care about court packing. They care about the implications and
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: all the things you're talking about, John. And that's exactly right.
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: I just think in terms of like volleying this back
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: into the sort of D.C. press arena requires pointing out
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: the hypocrisy and the absurdity of Republicans suddenly caring that
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: they care about like these strict rules around judicial nominees.
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: That has not been the case for a very long time.
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: that asshole Mitch McConnell was on Fox news bragging about
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: how he stole a bunch of judges for Obama. Like,
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: give me a break. Judges aren't like inhuman people who
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: just call balls and strikes or whatever the narrative is.
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: They're Republican and they're Democrat. They're conservative and they're liberal
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: these days. Like the Warren court, all those old school
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: days are gone. Like this is what we're dealing with now.
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: And I think Biden has to act accordingly.
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Legislate from the bench. Like, The Amy Coney Barrett's
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: of the world and Antonin Scalia's of the world, they
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: don't want you to legislate from Congress, right? Like Joe
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: Biden and a Democrat, this is what's going to happen.
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: Joe Biden and Democratic Congress will pass a bunch of
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: legislation that the Barrett, Scalia, Kavanaugh court will strike down.
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: There will be no legislation, no major legislation coming from
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: a Democratic president and a Democratic Congress if we leave
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: the 6-3 court the way it is. That's where we are.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: You say Scalia, but I can see them reconfirming him
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: in the lame duck. I think they can add him.
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: It's hard to keep track of who's alive and who's
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: dead on that court, frankly.
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: Oh, man.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: Kavanaugh.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: Thomas. Thomas.
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: It's so annoying. Gorsuch, too.
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: It's so annoying to watch these guys just like praying
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: for like a I like beer moment, praying for Lindsey
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: Graham moment. to be able to dust off his little
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: soapbox and start screaming and freaking out again. They just
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: want to be victims so badly when they're in control
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: of everything. It's infuriating.
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: Lindsey Graham's going to have a different voice and just
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: be like.
• 39:17
  Speaker 5: I hate Catholics.
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: Did you hear that?
• 39:20
  Speaker 7: Did you hear that?
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: Maisie Hirono just said she hates Catholics. I heard it. Oh, God.
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: Lindsey Graham, who refuses to take a COVID test.
• 39:29
  Speaker 5: Unbelievable.
• 39:30
  Speaker 7: What the fuck?
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: That is so, that is, we are gone. We are
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: in a whole new place.
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no COVID test. No COVID test because he might
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: not get his justice through. Okay, let's take a few
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: questions from the audience before we go to Lovett's interview
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: with Katie Porter.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: Questions.
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: Jennifer Claproth asks us, I'm suspicious that the Trump campaign
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: has pulled back on ads in the Midwest. Does it
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: mean he's given up or that he's rigged those states
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: so he doesn't need to campaign in them?
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: I don't think I have the same paranoia. I have
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: the exact same paranoia. I'm like pulling back. What's their
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: fucking secret?
• 40:08
  Speaker 7: You know?
• 40:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: I don't think he's rigged the states.
• 40:11
  Speaker 7: I wouldn't.
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: And I don't think he's given up. I think that
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: they're probably making very tough resource decisions about what states
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: they absolutely have to win. versus what states they want
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: to win. And they're also hoping that the super PACs
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: that can take $ 25 billion checks from Sheldon Adelson at
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: a time will help them close the gap in some
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: of these places. But it's not an ideal situation to
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: be in. I wouldn't look at that as a sign
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: of strength or a great plan for Donald Trump. It
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: seems like a sign of weakness to me.
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think what they've decided is if you look
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: at the 2016 map and you give Joe Biden Michigan
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: and Wisconsin... But Donald Trump keeps especially Arizona, Pennsylvania and Florida.
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: He wins. And so they have now they are running
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: out of money and they figure like, why save Michigan
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: and Wisconsin? What we really want to pay attention to
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: is Pennsylvania, Arizona and Florida, because I think they feel
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: they're the closest there. So they're going to put whatever
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: money they have into those three straights and try to
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: pull an inside straight like they did in twenty sixteen.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: And they don't view voter suppression and ads as a
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: ether or proposition.
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: True, unfortunately.
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: Very true. Rachel Libby asks, hey guys, question for you.
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: I'm confused as to why we are talking about slash
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: taking some comfort in polls that show Biden in the
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: lead when polls also predicted Hillary Clinton would win in
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: 2016 in a landslide. What's different now? Why should we
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: trust today's poll when they were so inaccurate then? Any
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: insight would be greatly appreciated.
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: So a few things. The national polls in 2016 did
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: not show that Hillary Clinton was going to win in
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: a landslide. The national polls showed that her final lead
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: was three points and she won by two points. So
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: the national polls are pretty close. The problem we had
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: was in Wisconsin and Michigan and Pennsylvania, the polls were five, six,
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: seven points off. So there was a big polling error
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: in those states. One of the theories of why there
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: was a polling error in those states is that polls
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: were not capturing the enough non-college educated white people. So
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: too many college educated people picked up the phone for pollsters,
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: not enough people without a college degree picked up. People
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: without a college degree tend to vote for Donald Trump
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: if they are white. So what do you do? You
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: change the polls this time to weight by education, meaning
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: you make sure there are enough non-college white voters in
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: your polling sample that match the population of that state.
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: So pollsters did that after 16. And then in 18,
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: the polls were closer they were closer and they were
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: they were now you still had a couple polls in
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: 18 florida showed andrew gillum and bill nelson winning by
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: a few they both lost by a point um poll
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: showed you know tony evers in wisconsin winning by a
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: couple points he won by one point so they're still
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: not they haven't totally fixed the problem um but they
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: did improve the polls in 2018 and the 2018 polls
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: in general were better than they were in 2016 but
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: who knows.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: It's close i would say close All of that. Take
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: all of that.
• 43:11
  Speaker 6: All right.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: All right. Remember it and throw it in the garbage.
• 43:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: Polls are shit.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: How's that? You know, get a good night's sleep like
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: the polls are right.
• 43:22
  Speaker 7: All right.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: Wake up every morning and assume they're wrong. And that's it.
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: Tammy DeBow asks, do you really think phone banking is
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: more effective than text banking, letter or postcard writing? Because
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: I personally never answer unknown calls and I've written hundreds
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: of postcards and letters. Three text banking attempts have been
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: frustratingly unsuccessful for technical reasons, but haven't phone banked. That's
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: all you guys promote, so I'm feeling insecure.
• 43:44
  Speaker 7: Tommy?
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: I don't think that's all we promote. I don't think
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: anybody knows what's more effective in the middle of a pandemic,
• 43:51
  Speaker 4: whether it's texting, letter writing, postcards, phones. So I would
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: say don't feel guilty about whatever you choose to do.
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: Do the one you want to do and know that
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: you're contributing and don't sweat it.
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: Great answer.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: When we come back, we will have Lovett's interview with
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: Congresswoman Katie Porter.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: Very exciting. We are joined by Congresswoman Katie Porter. No whiteboard,
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: but whiteboard energy. Thanks for being here.
• 44:27
  Speaker 5: Well, that's not true. I have a whiteboard.
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: I assume it's always nearby. It must always be available
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: to you.
• 44:33
  Speaker 7: Oh, there it is.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: There it is. Yeah, there it is. Deep background, just
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: in case. Just in case it needs to be... People
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: need to know. It's like Chekhov's gun, you know? All right, so.
• 44:44
  Speaker 6: I actually got a new whiteboard that fits in my purse. Now,
• 44:49
  Speaker 6: my purse is about the size of a small newborn elephant,
• 44:52
  Speaker 6: but nonetheless, it's really awesome. It's a whiteboard that fits
• 44:56
  Speaker 6: in my purse with a whiteboard marker that attaches. So
• 44:59
  Speaker 6: I do now truly always have one.
• 45:00
  Speaker 5: That's great.
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: Just trying to think of the emergency whiteboard situation, but
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: I'm glad you're ready just in case. So the last
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: time we talked, last time you were on Pod Save America,
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: it was mid-March. The country was just beginning to shut down.
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: Here we are all these months later. How are you doing?
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: How are you holding up?
• 45:17
  Speaker 5: I'm holding up okay, but I'm worried. I'm worried about
• 45:21
  Speaker 5: my kids.
• 45:22
  Speaker 6: You know, this morning I took my son to one
• 45:24
  Speaker 6: of his in-person.
• 45:26
  Speaker 5: Days at school.
• 45:27
  Speaker 6: And, you know, he came home because he forgot his mask,
• 45:30
  Speaker 6: so I had to drive him.
• 45:31
  Speaker 5: And he said, I don't know if we really need
• 45:34
  Speaker 5: these masks. And I said, you know, Paul.
• 45:36
  Speaker 6: COVID can cause brain damage. And he just looked like
• 45:40
  Speaker 6: he was terrified. And so that really is what daily
• 45:43
  Speaker 6: life is like for so many people. of us who
• 45:45
  Speaker 6: are really trying to balance between doing the things we
• 45:48
  Speaker 6: have to do, including, you know, in my case, trying
• 45:51
  Speaker 6: to get Congress to be productive, get my kids to school.
• 45:55
  Speaker 5: So that they're learning, and then trying to stay safe
• 45:57
  Speaker 5: at the same time.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, right now you are the
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: only single mother of young children in Congress. It just
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: seems very clear that lawmakers do not have the interest
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: of people in a situation like yours as their priority.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: What would a Congress that was actually responsive to what
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: families are going through What would it be doing right now?
• 46:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think there.
• 46:17
  Speaker 6: Are three top priorities and I don't think this is
• 46:19
  Speaker 6: this hard to discern. I don't think you need to
• 46:22
  Speaker 6: be a single mom kids to understand this, I think
• 46:24
  Speaker 6: you just need to be in touch with your constituents.
• 46:26
  Speaker 6: The first thing is help for state and local governments.
• 46:30
  Speaker 6: These are the entities that are closest to the people
• 46:33
  Speaker 6: that are delivering relief, food relief, food banks, rental assistance.
• 46:38
  Speaker 6: We need to get that money to the state and
• 46:40
  Speaker 6: local governments, and it needs to be a big enough
• 46:41
  Speaker 6: number to tide them through what is going to be
• 46:44
  Speaker 6: an extended period of lower taxes, lower sales tax, and
• 46:47
  Speaker 6: things like that. Second thing is we need to be
• 46:51
  Speaker 6: making sure that we're focusing on reopening schools and childcare centers.
• 46:56
  Speaker 6: If we don't do that, our economy will be permanently crippled,
• 47:00
  Speaker 6: not just now because women are staying home, working parents
• 47:02
  Speaker 6: are staying home, but for a whole generation of women
• 47:05
  Speaker 6: going forward.
• 47:06
  Speaker 5: McKinsey, not to be confused with Ms. Magazine, McKinsey, the.
• 47:11
  Speaker 6: Consulting firm, just did a study that found that one
• 47:14
  Speaker 6: in four Working women with children is considering leaving the workforce.
• 47:19
  Speaker 6: And that is a big problem for our economy as
• 47:22
  Speaker 6: women are major drivers of GDP, their efforts in the workplace.
• 47:26
  Speaker 6: And then three is making sure that we have adequate
• 47:29
  Speaker 6: resources for testing and tracing. We still need to approach
• 47:32
  Speaker 6: this from a public health situation.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: So those are the priorities, you know, Trump on steroids.
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: tweets that he doesn't want there. There will be no
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: more negotiations. Then quickly he realizes that that was a
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: dumb thing to say. Now he's he's taken every position
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: conceivable on negotiations. McConnell seems to be trying to pour
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: cold water on the idea of the Senate doing something.
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: What is going on right now with negotiations? Where is
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: the possibility of stimulus? And like what what happens when
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: you have Trump kind of taking every side every single day?
• 48:08
  Speaker 5: Oh, God, John, who the hell knows?
• 48:10
  Speaker 6: OK, like I have no idea what's going on in
• 48:14
  Speaker 6: Trump's mind.
• 48:15
  Speaker 5: Does anybody? And, you know, I think one of the
• 48:18
  Speaker 5: things that we're seeing is that there.
• 48:20
  Speaker 6: Is a divergence between where Mitch McConnell is and where
• 48:23
  Speaker 6: Trump is.
• 48:24
  Speaker 5: And it's not the kind of divergence we were hoping for.
• 48:26
  Speaker 6: We were hoping for a majority leader that would actually
• 48:29
  Speaker 6: step up and legislate in this moment.
• 48:31
  Speaker 5: And now we're in this odd world where President Trump is.
• 48:34
  Speaker 6: Actually showing that he's more open to doing coronavirus relief
• 48:38
  Speaker 6: than Mitch McConnell is. So I think the Democrats are
• 48:41
  Speaker 6: continuing to try to be open to negotiation. We know
• 48:45
  Speaker 6: what the priorities are and we're continuing to try to
• 48:48
  Speaker 6: push them, but we just can't do that with Mitch
• 48:52
  Speaker 6: McConnell and the White House not on the same page.
• 48:55
  Speaker 6: I mentioned before the importance of state and local government
• 48:58
  Speaker 6: help and the importance of schools and childcare, testing and tracing.
• 49:02
  Speaker 6: I would also say, we're in a situation where we
• 49:05
  Speaker 6: need to give direct help to those who are unemployed
• 49:08
  Speaker 6: Particularly with regard to keeping them housed I think we
• 49:11
  Speaker 6: are cruising for a major housing crisis and as somebody
• 49:14
  Speaker 6: who's already lived through one of those almost two of
• 49:17
  Speaker 6: those now I guess this will be my third one
• 49:19
  Speaker 6: in my lifetime, starting with the farm crisis in the
• 49:23
  Speaker 6: 1980s when I was a kid in the Midwest, what
• 49:25
  Speaker 6: we went through with the national mortgage crisis here in 2008, 2009, 2010.
• 49:29
  Speaker 6: We're going to be in another housing crisis coming up
• 49:33
  Speaker 6: if we don't help people keep making their mortgage payments
• 49:36
  Speaker 6: and keep making their rental payments, keep our roof over
• 49:38
  Speaker 6: their head.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it does seem like there's been some, it
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: hasn't gone far enough, there've been some moratorium, some of
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: them local, some of them national around rent, but that
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: doesn't at all address the problem about what happens when
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: all these people that have been out of work, they're
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: still going to have to figure out some way to
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: either pay or be relieved from paying all of that background.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: It seems like we have this sort of ticking time
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: bomb in the economy of all these people that are
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: going to have the rent come due. What is the
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: answer to that? I mean, obviously it's money, but Yeah.
• 50:11
  Speaker 6: So we've seen moratoriums used before. They were used during
• 50:15
  Speaker 6: the Great Depression. They've sometimes been used during other agricultural-based depressions.
• 50:21
  Speaker 5: But you're absolutely right.
• 50:22
  Speaker 6: You have to ultimately answer the question about how you're
• 50:25
  Speaker 6: going to pay this landlord. And of course, there are
• 50:27
  Speaker 6: large landlords, there are private equity firms that have a lot.
• 50:30
  Speaker 5: Of access to capital. But there are also people whose
• 50:33
  Speaker 5: landlord is a senior who's renting out an apartment, and
• 50:36
  Speaker 5: that rent is their income to make ends meet.
• 50:39
  Speaker 6: So I think we need to be providing direct assistance
• 50:42
  Speaker 6: to help people make their rental and mortgage payments. And
• 50:45
  Speaker 6: if we don't, we're gonna find ourselves in a world
• 50:48
  Speaker 6: of hurt, not unlike what we did after the mortgage
• 50:52
  Speaker 6: crisis where we're gonna be trying to get loan modifications
• 50:54
  Speaker 6: for people because this is affecting both renters and homeowners.
• 50:58
  Speaker 6: And of course, those at the lower end of the
• 51:00
  Speaker 6: income spectrum who are more likely to be renters are
• 51:02
  Speaker 6: having the hardest time recovering in this pandemic. But I
• 51:05
  Speaker 6: think the fact that we used a moratorium as our
• 51:09
  Speaker 6: primary tool, reflected a fundamental misunderstanding by policymakers that.
• 51:15
  Speaker 5: This would somehow blow over in a month or two.
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 51:18
  Speaker 6: And not treating this as the year or two economic
• 51:22
  Speaker 6: game changer that COVID-19 is in this country. Right.
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: It wasn't a pause. It was a new way of
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: living for a long time. So right now, Democrats seem
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: open to pursuing a stimulus package. You know, there is
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: this conflict for Democrats who want to help people. who
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: are terrified at the prospect of failing to do something
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: before the election, Republicans having no interest in helping, even
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: in the best case scenario, knock on wood, all caveats,
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: we can win. We're talking about months and months without
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: helping people. Yet at the same time, I think Democrats
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: are afraid of giving Donald Trump some kind of a
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: victory in the final days before this election. How are
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: you grappling with that? How do you put together our
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: political interests of winning this election, but also more importantly,
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: wanting to help people in this crisis?
• 52:07
  Speaker 6: I don't think that's how we're thinking about it, or
• 52:09
  Speaker 6: that's at least not how I'm thinking about it as
• 52:11
  Speaker 6: a Democrat. My concern isn't about Donald Trump. My concern
• 52:16
  Speaker 6: is about the American people. So I will vote for
• 52:19
  Speaker 6: any stimulus package, regardless of whether it comes before or
• 52:25
  Speaker 6: after the election, whether it is bipartisan or not, that's
• 52:28
  Speaker 6: going to deliver enough meaningful help.
• 52:32
  Speaker 5: Because the reality is we can't do these packages every
• 52:34
  Speaker 5: two weeks. We can't do them every month.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 52:36
  Speaker 5: They take too.
• 52:37
  Speaker 6: Long to negotiate and the programs take too long to
• 52:40
  Speaker 6: set up to get help to people. So we need
• 52:43
  Speaker 6: to come up with something that's going to be big
• 52:44
  Speaker 6: enough to actually meet people's unmet needs for the last
• 52:48
  Speaker 6: couple months and understand that we have at least six
• 52:51
  Speaker 6: more months.
• 52:52
  Speaker 5: Best, most miraculous case scenario of economic pain caused by COVID. So.
• 52:58
  Speaker 6: For me, I think for most of my colleagues, my
• 53:00
  Speaker 6: freshman colleagues in particular, we are in our districts. We
• 53:03
  Speaker 6: are hearing what constituents are going through.
• 53:05
  Speaker 5: We want to deliver for them.
• 53:06
  Speaker 6: It's not a question of Donald Trump and helping Donald Trump.
• 53:09
  Speaker 6: It's a question of helping people. Is this a package
• 53:13
  Speaker 6: that will help people? And the Democrats have voted for
• 53:15
  Speaker 6: more than one of those heroes, the updated heroes package.
• 53:19
  Speaker 5: We keep going back to the drawing board.
• 53:21
  Speaker 6: If Trump were willing, or McConnell more pointedly, were willing
• 53:24
  Speaker 6: to step up and do any of these things before
• 53:27
  Speaker 6: the election, after the election, I don't care. People need help.
• 53:32
  Speaker 6: And when people are getting help from their government, that
• 53:34
  Speaker 6: causes them to feel confident about government working for them,
• 53:38
  Speaker 6: and that leads them to go out and vote, regardless
• 53:40
  Speaker 6: of their ideology.
• 53:41
  Speaker 5: That's an important thing to understand about this moment.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: It also sounds like what you're saying is, we can't
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: settle for a half measure. We need to get the
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: package we think is the absolute best package because it
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: will be months before we should or would be able
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: to do this again. So we should be using our
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: leverage and we should only move forward if it's a
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: really good deal that reflects democratic priorities about how to
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: actually fix this mess.
• 54:04
  Speaker 6: Well, absolutely, because this is not, if you're thinking about
• 54:07
  Speaker 6: someone who's lost their job and they can't make ends meet.
• 54:11
  Speaker 6: Maybe their spouse kept their job, but it reduced hours.
• 54:14
  Speaker 5: They lost their job. They're three months behind.
• 54:16
  Speaker 6: On the rent.
• 54:17
  Speaker 5: They have a moratorium.
• 54:19
  Speaker 6: They're having to juggle childcare expenses that are higher because
• 54:21
  Speaker 6: schools closed. Sending them a $ 50 check isn't going to
• 54:25
  Speaker 6: solve their problems. That's a political stunt.
• 54:29
  Speaker 5: So what we're.
• 54:29
  Speaker 6: Trying to do is provide enough to actually help meet
• 54:32
  Speaker 6: the needs. And you think about it with state and
• 54:34
  Speaker 6: local government. If you send them a tiny amount of money,
• 54:38
  Speaker 6: they still have to lay off firefighters. They still have
• 54:40
  Speaker 6: to lay off police departments. They still have to make
• 54:44
  Speaker 6: cuts in senior services and child services. So it needs
• 54:48
  Speaker 6: to be big enough to actually help people solve their problems.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: So one other question I was interested in talking to
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: you about. So it seems like this downturn has accelerated
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: or made worse certain trends that we were already seeing.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: So you have Amazon is hiring, local stores are closing,
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: big restaurant chains like Domino's and Chipotle are doing well.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: And restaurants that have fewer than five locations, they're really,
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: really struggling. Millions of people have lost their jobs. These
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: small businesses, they're not just the heart of downtowns and communities.
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: They're also the competition for these big companies. And we're
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: in this situation where we have these big downturns. This
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: is the second giant crisis in a decade. And it's
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: like a brush fire. It clears out small businesses so
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: these big giants can thrive. What is the answer in
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: good times? to protect small businesses, to create incentives so
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: that every time we're in any kind of downturn, it's
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: not just the big guys that are able to weather
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: the storm, that we have a system in place to
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: make sure we have downtowns with like unique local businesses
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: that like are part of their communities.
• 55:51
  Speaker 6: This is a wonderful point and I'm really glad you're
• 55:53
  Speaker 6: making it because not enough people are talking about this.
• 55:57
  Speaker 5: Anytime we have a.
• 55:58
  Speaker 6: Major economic crisis or a major industry transformation, there are
• 56:03
  Speaker 6: winners and there are losers. What we've seen in the
• 56:05
  Speaker 6: last 50, 60, 70 years in the United States, is
• 56:08
  Speaker 6: the winners are always the biggest companies, and the losers.
• 56:11
  Speaker 5: Are always the smallest ones.
• 56:13
  Speaker 6: We saw that with the mortgage crisis, where the big
• 56:16
  Speaker 6: banks came out fine, but a lot of smaller banks
• 56:18
  Speaker 6: were closed, merged, or consolidated.
• 56:22
  Speaker 5: I think part of the answer here is to.
• 56:23
  Speaker 6: Be during the crisis, really right at the start, building
• 56:27
  Speaker 6: programs that will help the smallest entities. And so I
• 56:31
  Speaker 6: think there were mistakes made with the original Paycheck Protection Program,
• 56:35
  Speaker 6: the PPP, where it was much easier for larger businesses,
• 56:38
  Speaker 6: for white-owned businesses, for businesses with lots of credit already
• 56:43
  Speaker 6: connected to financial services to get help.
• 56:45
  Speaker 5: I do think when we went back, we improved that program.
• 56:48
  Speaker 6: But there's no doubt that we weren't thinking enough about
• 56:50
  Speaker 6: the most vulnerable businesses right at the start. I think
• 56:53
  Speaker 6: the other answer to this is to understand that in
• 56:56
  Speaker 6: good times, as you said, what should we be doing
• 56:58
  Speaker 6: in good times?
• 56:59
  Speaker 5: We ought to be.
• 57:00
  Speaker 6: Making sure that we are focusing on enforcing antitrust laws,
• 57:06
  Speaker 6: reducing barriers to competition, making sure that people can compete
• 57:10
  Speaker 6: on a level playing field and And so those are
• 57:13
  Speaker 6: all things that you have to be thinking about constantly
• 57:16
  Speaker 6: in a capitalist economy. That's a sort of precursor of capitalism.
• 57:22
  Speaker 6: A healthy capitalism is that you have this competition. And
• 57:24
  Speaker 6: there are lots of industries where we really can't honestly
• 57:28
  Speaker 6: say we have that. Big Pharma, great example. Health insurance,
• 57:32
  Speaker 6: another example. There's a handful of companies. Pharmacies, another example.
• 57:36
  Speaker 6: But there's lots of examples outside of healthcare as well.
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: So.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: you know, you recently had a viral clip in Oversight
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: around pharmaceutical costs. You've had a number of these in
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: your time in these committee hearings. You've made, you know,
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: Oversight a cool thing for people. What is it that
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: you're thinking about?
• 57:54
  Speaker 5: Oversight is a cool thing.
• 57:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 57:57
  Speaker 7: Sure. Yeah.
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: No, I agree.
• 57:59
  Speaker 7: I agree.
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, how about we say you're making it cooler?
• 58:02
  Speaker 5: Absolutely. I mean, look, I really do mean this. I
• 58:05
  Speaker 5: love Oversight.
• 58:06
  Speaker 6: I mean, it's, It's because it's really fundamental to this
• 58:11
  Speaker 6: core problem of democracy that I was hinting at earlier,
• 58:14
  Speaker 6: which is if people think government isn't working, they don't
• 58:19
  Speaker 6: vote for the other party.
• 58:21
  Speaker 5: They simply don't vote at all. And that is a
• 58:25
  Speaker 5: big long-term problem.
• 58:27
  Speaker 6: So we have to be thinking about oversight as a
• 58:30
  Speaker 6: tool to help show people that their vote does matter,
• 58:34
  Speaker 6: that their vote is improving the nature and.
• 58:36
  Speaker 5: Type of government. And that doesn't mean that's not an
• 58:39
  Speaker 5: ideological agenda.
• 58:40
  Speaker 6: That's just about getting the American people component.
• 58:42
  Speaker 5: So I do truly part oversight.
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: But what I'm trying to ask is, what is your
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: approach in those moments when you're breaking out the whiteboard?
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: How do you decide this is what I want to
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: focus on? This is what I think will really matter.
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: This is what I think will break through because I
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: think you've managed to do that when a lot of
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: other before you who have cared about oversight, it's been
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: harder to break through, harder to get people excited about it.
• 59:07
  Speaker 6: One of the things we do is we really focus
• 59:08
  Speaker 6: on not what I want to say, but what do
• 59:12
  Speaker 6: the American people want to hear? And so we think about,
• 59:15
  Speaker 6: you know, not the speech I want to give, but
• 59:18
  Speaker 6: the answers that they need from these witnesses. It also
• 59:22
  Speaker 6: just takes a lot of hard work. We'll often start
• 59:24
  Speaker 6: out with anywhere between eight and 10 possible ideas for
• 59:27
  Speaker 6: lines of questioning.
• 59:28
  Speaker 5: And we'll even go into a hearing.
• 59:31
  Speaker 6: Even narrowed down with, two or three different ideas, picking
• 59:34
  Speaker 6: the one that we think is best in the moment.
• 59:36
  Speaker 6: So it takes a lot of preparation, but it really
• 59:38
  Speaker 6: takes not thinking about what you want to say. It's
• 59:41
  Speaker 6: not an opportunity to give a speech. It's a moment
• 59:44
  Speaker 6: to get answers.
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: Last question. What are you doing to stay pumped in
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: the final three weeks? By the time this comes out,
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: it'll basically be 500 hours until the last polls closed.
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: How are you staying in the fight?
• 59:57
  Speaker 6: Yeah, so I've been really, really enjoying working with and
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 6: supporting other House challengers this cycle. I think there's so
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 6: much focus right now, obviously, on electing Joe Biden and
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 6: Kamala Harris, on taking back the Senate.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 5: But I have a news flash for listeners of the pod.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 6: The House challengers of 2020 are terrific. So if you
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 6: like what you saw out of the class of 2018,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 6: Get ready for the class of 2020. So I formed
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 6: a leadership organization called Truth to Power. And through that PAC,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 6: I've been able to endorse 26 House challengers. They're all women,
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 6: people of color, women of color, and not one of
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 6: them takes corporate PAC money.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 5: So I'm going to help build.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 6: What I'm doing in this next phase is not only
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 6: focusing on my own election, winning in this Republican territory
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 6: of Orange County, but also making sure that I'm going
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 6: to have many, many more colleagues who are willing to
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 6: stand up and fight for the truth.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 5: In those hearings.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: Congressman Katie Porter, thank you so much for taking the
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: time to talk to us.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 5: Thank you so much.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: Thanks to Katie Porter for joining us today. And no
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: debate this week. Did she have a whiteboard? So that's something.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: It was deep in the background, but it was there
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: in case. I've said it in the interview, but it
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: was like Chekhov's gun.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 4: Did you get any lesson?
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: No?
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: Okay, got it.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: But she's great. We love Katie Porter.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 4: She's awesome.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: Love Katie Porter.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: And we didn't use it, but we had a great
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: conversation after the interview that was like really some hot gossip.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 4: Ooh, I like that.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: Wow, you're just dropping that here at the end of
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: the episode? Release the tapes.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: Why not? Why not?
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 5: Rough.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 4: I saw her quote tweet and respond to Trump saying
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 4: California is going to hell with just a big eye
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 4: roll emoji, which I thought was spot on.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: Classic.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 6: Classic.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: All right, guys, we'll talk to you later. Pod Save
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: America is a Crooked Media production. The executive producer is
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: Michael Martinez. Our associate producer is Jordan Waller. It's mixed
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin is our sound engineer.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: Thanks to Tanya Sominator, Things aren't great. Millions of Americans
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: are sitting around their living rooms for the who knows
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: what week of this pandemic. We're frustrated about the economy,
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: guy in the White House. But don't let a sense
• 1:02:39
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• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: Save America Jobs, more organizations are connecting with job candidates
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: who are passionate about creating change every day. Things don't
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: have to be the way they are. Work to make
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: them better. And if you are looking for a place
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: to put that restless energy, Vote Save America Jobs is
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: a place for you too. Just go to votesaveamerica.com slash jobs. Again,
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: that's votesaveamerica.com slash jobs.