Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 270: Strategic Habitat Management with Tom James

Transcript

Ep. 270: Strategic Habitat Management with Tom James · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the wire to Hunt podcast, your home for
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan in this episode number two and
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: seventy and today in the show, we're talking whitetail habitat
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: management with Tom James, an Indian hunter land specialist, habitat consultant,
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: and the inventor of the Ferminator. All right, folks, welcome
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: to the Wired Hunt podcast, brought to you by Onyx.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: And as I mentioned, today's guest is Tom James, and
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna say right off the top, I really really
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: enjoyed chatting with Tom. Tom is currently a white tail
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: properties land specialist, and he's a habitat consultant, and he
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: films and shares his hunts for an online show called
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: The Management Advantage. And he also invented one of the
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: most popular food plot implements of all time, kind of
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: one of those all in one food plot implements, called
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: the Ferminator. But more than all of that, I think
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: something that really comes through in our conversations. He's just
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: a guy who really really really loves dear and working
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: on properties to improve wildlife habitat and hunting opportunities, and
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: his passion just oozes through every word he says, and
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: it's a lot of fun to be a part of,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: not to mention, of course, the the expertise that it
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: brings to bear too. So, as you guys likely know,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: I am personally fascinated by this kind of stuff habitat
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: work and management and improvement. But I'm also really into
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: the absolute completely opposite form of hunting, which is public
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: land hunting and d I y trips across the country
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: and that kind of thing. And I've been pretty fortunate
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: to be able to have the ability to go and
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: do both of these kinds of hunting just about every year. Um.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Inasmuch as I just enjoy that, I also firmly believe
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: that this diversity and experiences it's helped make me a
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: better hunter, regardless of even just the actual hunting. I
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: think just learning about these different styles of hunting and
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: these different aspects of knowledge about deer and what dear
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: need and what dear want, and how dear use habitat,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: how dear you know, or on the opposite side, how
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: to find highly pressured deer in public land, how to
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: set up on deer without being a minipal habitat, All
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: those different facets of this this thing that we love
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: related deer hunting, it all helps. I think it all
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: has has helped make me a more well rounded hunter.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: And I do think that these these diverse topics can
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: help you too, regardless of what style of hunting and
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: you do. Most I think there's something we learned from
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: all of these things. Um So in today's example, you know,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: with Tom, we dive into some really interesting things about
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: you know, how dear relate to tim or what deer
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: need from cover um and on the side of things
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: that comes to you know, if you actually want to
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: own a small piece of ground someday or get a
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: small lease someday. Um Man. The topics we cover this
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: one are really, really really about relevant stuff like, you know,
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: how to price out land, how to find land and
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: determine how much it's worth, how to determine what you
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: should actually try offering, what's a fair price. We get
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: into some really interesting things about old field type habitat,
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: what dear need from early successional habitat, how to improve fields,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: how to build cover out of nothing, um how to
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: manage timber, how to make money from timber um. And
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: then of course you know, we talked food too, which
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: is something that we we use white tailed guys and
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: girls usually let's talk about. So it's just Um, it
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: was just a really enjoyable conversation, one of the better
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: habitat conversations that I've had in a long time. And uh,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: I think you guys really enjoy it. So probably without
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: me rambling on any further about how much you're enjoy
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: the show, we should probably just get to the show
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: so you can enjoy it. So let's take a quick
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: break and then we'll chat with Tom James. All right,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: when they now on the line, is Tom James, Welcome
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: to the showtime. Hey Mark, glad to be with you today. Yeah,
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: thank you for taking the time to do this. I'm
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: looking forward to this chat I as well. I I
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: appreciate you reaching out to me that we're really busy
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: right now with with land activity, which is great. We're
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: getting close to spring, so I had to make sure
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: I blocked out some time for you because it's been
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: a crazy few weeks for us here. But um, things
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: are well in the land world right now. Yeah, I
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: guess that's a good problem to have, being being so
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: busy with things at this time. And I'm glad that
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: you were able to carver a little of time because
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: for at least a year now, maybe longer than that,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: I've had you. I kind of keep a running list
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: unbeknownst to people, maybe the ears the ears start ringing
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: every once a while because I'm thinking about them or
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: typing up their name. But I had this running list
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: of folks that I think would be really interesting to
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: talk to on the podcast. And You've been on the
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: list for at least a year. UM finally made the
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: reached out to you and made it happen. So I found.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: I can't remember when I first you came on my
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: radar for but you you popped up with a big
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: flashing red light for me maybe a year and a
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: half ago or so when my colleagues Spenser interviewed you
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: for one of our short little white tail properties segments
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: that we run most episodes, and um and just like
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: a minute long segment. I just thought what you had
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: to say was was so compelling and interesting. I was like,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: this is the guy I want to pick his brain
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: in more detail about how you approach managing properties, hunting
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: white tails, managing white tails, all that kind of stuff
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: that we love to do. It seems like you've got
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: just a wealth of experience and kind of selfishly very
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: relevant experience to me because I'm down in southern Michigan
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: and you're in central Indiana, right, Yeah, so we're kind
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: of in the same kind of neck of the woods.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: And uh, I'm I'm interested to see how you're doing
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: these things, So correct me if I'm wrong or from
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: missing anything here, Tom, But you are a white tail
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: properties land specialist, you do habitat consulting work, uh, you
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: film uh for the management advantage, and you also invented
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: the ferminator. How do you have time to do anything
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: else with all these different projects you've been up to?
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: Good question. I guess I'm just wired that way. I'm
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: a restless sort of a person. So if I'm sitting
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: around and nothing's happening, most people would call that a positive,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: you know, being able to relax and just kill for
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: a little bit. But that's never been me. I'm just
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: a go getter, constantly motivated, and I feel there's a
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: self worth issue with me. It sounds funny, but some
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: people may struggle with that too. If I'm not being
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: productive and feeling like I'm creating something, I sort of
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: start getting down on myself. I've always been that way. Yeah,
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: I get that. So, so can you give us the
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: the cliff notes version of how you got to this point, um, like,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: how you got involved with things here on the not
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: just the hunting side of things, but how you transformed
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: your love for hunting into you know, what seems to
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: be now a thriving career. Yeah. And it's all really
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: been just sort of by default. You know, I didn't
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: really seek out any of this. It just fell in
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: place as time progressed by one opportunity led to another
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: to another. And you know, I look at that as
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: sort of I don't think anything happens for by accident.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: I should say everything happens for a reason in people's lives,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: good and bad, and um, you know, I don't want
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: to bore you with too long of the story. But
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: going back to I was a young boy, my folks
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: moved out to the current area that I live in
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: rural Hancock County, Indiana, which is nothing but really cornfields
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: and soybean fields and patch woods and ditches. But It
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: was a whole new world exposed to me as a
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: young boy that was fifth grade, moving from near East side,
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: Indianapolis in a suburban neighborhood out to wide open fields
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: and little woodlots. And my mom would just open the
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: door and let me, you know, back. And this was
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: back in the seventies where things aren't as they may
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: have been, but it didn't didn't seem like um. People
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: were as as worried about what would happened to their
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: children as you are now. And I would be just
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: going days at days, hours at a time every day
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: during the summer, and then after school would be for school.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: I picked up small game hunting, rabbit hunting, squirrel hunting.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: My dad gave me my first give me twenty two
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: rifle when I was a pretty young boy, because he
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: trusted me and respected me UM, And I was real
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: careful and I proved myself to him. UM, So I
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: was constantly roman. I think one of the things that
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: really setuate me into being a true outdoorsman was the
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: ability to run a trap line. As a young boy,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: I was waiting creeks and setting connabt traps for muskrats
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: and and eventually worked my way up to catching mink
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: and raccoons, and then eventually as I got a little
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: bit older, learned how to catch Now this is back
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: in the day mark when we didn't have cayotes. I'm
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: dating myself a little bit, but red fox was was
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: the prime predatory target around here. And in a good
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: red fox in those days, back when the fur market
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: was really booming, was worth sixty to seventy dollars, so
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: that was pretty cool, you know, in muskrats were eight
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: to ten dollars a piece. And here I was, at
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: six seventh grade boy running traps in the morning on
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: a high the three wheeler that was back before the
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: three wheelers were um considered dangerous, and I'd get up
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: in the dark and go run traps, and then again
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: in the afternoon when I got out of school. So
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: that really just solidified my passion just to be out
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: there all the time, you know, between small game hunting
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: and trapping. But it wasn't until I got into college.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: I went to Purdue and I started in to uh
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: actually started in pre veterinary medicine school, but just basically
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: taking prerequisites. But when I found out how difficult that
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: school is to even have a shot at I decided
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: to change my majors to wildlife biology wildlife management. And
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: there's another addition to that story a little bit later.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: But um, I met some really neat guys there at
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: school and and uh obviously guys from all over the
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: country and all over the Midwest, and was able to,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: through some relationships be introduced to I guess be introduced.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: I was actually given an opportunity to turkey hunt on
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: some some ground in seven Indiana where turkeys weren't anywhere,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: you know, near me here at the time, and some Indiana,
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: and um I I drove and did some turkey hunts
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: and drove up to northern Indiana to some buddies that
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: I when you went to Purdue with, and we're experiencing
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: different aspects of learning the bow hunt. This is gonna
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: crack you up. But I couldn't afford a bow. So
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: my girlfriend's brother at the time let me borrow an
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: old Indian bow Indian brand name bow. I'm not even sure.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, it was just probably like a pound kind
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: of resembled a smaller version of the white tail hunter
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: the white tail from bear archery, and uh, three illuminum
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: arrows of different shaft sizes and lengths and different color fledgings.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: And I was shooting with a finger tab and that's
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: that's what my buddy had laying around, you know, as
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: a spare, and I shot it and I got pretty
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: proficient with it. And the very first this was in
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: rural northeast northwest suburbia of Indianapolis, Carmel Arry, Hamilton's County,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: and there was some woodlots up in there that helps
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: the deer, and which none were around my home where
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: I lived. But it was interesting to drive the back
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: roads in the evening and see some deer out in
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: the field feeding. And my girlfriend's brother had some connections,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: and one thing led to another. We got permission on
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: a couple of those little farms, and one morning we
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: walked in this particular day and I'm holding that Indian
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: bow in one hand and clutching the three arrows with
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: lost on grain broadheads and loosely in my other hand,
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: and walked in the dark and found a tree that
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: I could climb and straddle a limb basically legs dangling
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: off of a limb about twenty ft up in the air.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: And found a branch overhead that I could rest two
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: of the three arrows on and knocked an arrow. As
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: as luck would have it, an hour or two later,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: a young year and a half old six point buck
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: made the mistake of coming within a bow range of me,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: and I shot my very first deer. And that kind
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: of a scenario, without a stand, without an without ever
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: unorthodox equipment, but absolutely hooked me one from that moment
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: in deer hunting, so that that that was just everything
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: is just a building block, you know, one thing led
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: to another led to another. I continued to trap all
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: through college and eventually made some other relationships. My my
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: my wife, was a dear friend from high school, but
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: we had gone our separate ways and I was off
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: to college. But I came home from my my cousin's
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: wedding and I saw Laura, who would soon be my wife.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: But we that was the night we sort of re
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: clicked and started going out again. Um, but right before
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: we got married, one of her best friends from school
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: was related to some folks that live out in west
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: central Indiana, and she had told me a couple of
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: times about they've got this really awesome farm and they've
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: got deer and turkeys, and of course you know how
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: guys are like perking up and listening, Hey, uh hey,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: can you make an introduction to me for me on that?
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: And uh, actually that's how it happened when I really
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: first got exposed to just incredible deer hunting properties and habitat.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: Was that that connection and back when a handshake and
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: it's just good permission was granted to you through being
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: somebody that they sat down and interviewed me kind of.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: I went to their farm and stood around in the
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: shop with these these these men and their father. And
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: I'm embarrassed to say, but looking back, I was here.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: This was early nineties, and I had a mullet. I
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: drove my wife's car out there, and they're probably, you know, here,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: these farmers looking at this young punk. And but they
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: were kind enough to give me an opportunity and I never,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: I never, um took that for granted. I wrote them
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: letters every Christmas and took them gifts and thanked them
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: because it was really important and special to me. It
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: meant a lot. And um, those were the years I
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: really made leaps and bounds and my my hunting success
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: and understanding of reading dear sign and understanding properties and
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: lay out intopography and help bux. You know, that's we're
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: talking over a twenty year period of that. Yeah. But
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: as I got to a point where I felt it
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: finally felt like I could afford something. Um, maybe not
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: by myself, but I I just had that itch. I
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: had to I had to be able to call something
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: my own. Um. I even tried to buy one of
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: the farm fields that the small farm that I primarily
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: hunted those farmers, and they they politely told me they
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: didn't have any interest in selling it. But I had
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: to try. And I watched the newspaper every Sunday in
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: the classified and would open it up as soon as
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: it arrived and run through there and look and see
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: if I could find anything out in that county. That's
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: really where I wanted to target. And one day there
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: was a little I mean, I bet you well, I
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: can probably recite the ad. It's at fifty seven point
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: four eight acres deer and turkey glower, one acre pond,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: possible contract and uh man, and the price was a
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: thousand dollars an acre, is right now? Was that a
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: good price at the time? Absolutely? Yeah, I mean it
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: was even it sounds low at the time, but you know,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: prices now are three thousand dollars easy in the same county,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: and um, I think the average then was fifteen eight
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: hundred dollars, so it was part it was priced below average,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: and they were anxious to get it sold. But I called.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: I called the guy and it was a Sunday morning,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: and I apologize for bothering him on Sunday, and I said,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: could I please look at this today? And he gave
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: me directions and I drove out there and then I
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: called him. I was coming off the hill and there
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: was a couple other guys walking up, you know, to
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: look at it too, and that's just like, oh my gosh,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: I gotta do something now. These guys are gonna sweep
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: it out from under me. And yeah. So I called
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: him back and I said, is there any way that
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: I can this off the market today? And he agreed
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: to meet me in Indianapolis and I wrote him a
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: earnest check from a thousand bucks to get it off
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: the market, to get a pending. And I actually ended
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: up buying that property with a really close personal friend
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: of mine and he trusted me a dent. I called
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: him on the way home and he said, Tom if
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: you like it, and if it's as good as you
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: say it is, let's do it. And we bought it together.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: So that scenario that you're talking about right there, you
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: see this little spot, you fall in love with it
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: right away, you feel like this this pressure of other
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: people going to snatch it up. I gotta believe that
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: happens to a lot of people. I can feel it
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: happening to me. Um Is, there is there a risk
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: though with that, because I've always tried to like so well,
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: I guess let me take a step back. I personally
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: am exploring a similar scenario as you laid out there.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: I've for a long time wanted to try to buy
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: a small little piece to try to, you know, just
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: to dabble in this kind of thing experience. And finally
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: you we've we've had Dan Prez on the show and
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: different folks who have talked over and over about how
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: you can get a small property at a decent rate,
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: find ways to earn some additional and come off of
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: it and slowly build it up and someday flip it
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: and then buy a little bit bigger property and you
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: can kind of work your way up the ladder. Um.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: So it's always been like a dream for a long
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: time of mine. Now I'm finally wondering like maybe I could,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: maybe I could try. So I'm starting to explore some
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: things right now. So all these things we're gonna be
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: talking about here, you know, selfishly, I'm hoping it's going
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: to help me through this process if it happens. Yeah,
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: And so so I can already see like going out
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: and stepping on stepping on a property, it's so easy
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: to to fall in love with it and be like,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this is so cool. I can envision
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: hanging to stand here and hanging a food or putting
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: a food plot here, and I bet you I could
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: access right here. Um, I'm already seeing how easy it
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: is to to get stuck on something and then never
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: look at anything else, or become so attached to it
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: that you're not able to look at the potential downstads
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: or things like that. So I'm trying to like find
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: a way to keep myself mentally in check and not
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: fall into that temptation. But I it's probably losing battle.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: So I hear you exactly go ahead, and I'm finished
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: with your question, because I've already got some pre preformed
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: responses for you perfect so basically that I'm just kind
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: of curious, like, what do you think about that? How
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: should someone be thinking about that? Sounds like it kind
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: of worked out for you, but maybe it could have
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: been a dangerous thing to fall in love with it
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: so quickly for other people. Is that true? Is that
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: a concern? It is? It is true. I have seen
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: both sides of the coin, though. I've seen properties that
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: were just incredible, and you know, and I see a
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: lot of properties every day, as you can imagine, and
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: I've taken guys on properties that I would die for
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: if I were in their shoes, and they just are
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: They're so selective and um, las fair about it that
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: they you know, I'll think about it and I'll talk
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: it over, and you know, I completely agree with don't
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: force it, don't don't create a sense of urgency if
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: they're isn't one, Um, take your time, think it through,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: look at plenty of properties. Don't just settle on the
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: very first thing that you see. However, I think there's
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: something completely intuitive within a person if you're on a
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: on a property and it just absolutely speaks to you
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: and you feel a sense of my gosh, this just
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: feels right and it feels like home to me. And
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: you know, there might be a few negatives that you
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: can look at and can you overcome those or can
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: you can you contradict those negatives? Are improve them and
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: turn them around? Um? Yeah, it's great for a guy
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: to have a sort of a checklist to go through
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: when looking at a piece. Does it have good access?
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Does it have, um, some potential openings even if it
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: doesn't have food plot openings? Can I make some? Does
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: it have any open ground? What? What is the surrounding pressure?
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: Like is it in a good county that produces trophy
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: deer or better than average? So there's a list of
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: questions that are important to you as a hunter, as
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: a landowner that you I would formulate and force yourself
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: to go down through that list, because sometimes you get
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: infatuated and you just the heck with the list. You know,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: I'm ready, um, But then then you could you could
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: end up with some regrets. And the second side of that, though,
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: is I UM, when it speaks to you and you
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: feel right and the price is right, the prices within
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: what the market is substantiating for you with some research,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: all you've checked into that. I'd say, man, I've seen
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: guys that are just are so so cautious and so
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: so afraid to make that jump that they've actually let
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: some really good things and opportunities passed them by. So
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: there is certainly a balance in there, and hopefully some
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: of those things that I've made comment about the list
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: and the details, um, if I may add this, I
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: probably think the number one aspect or detail about a
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: property that can make a great property horrible or a
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: moderate property incredibly good is your surrounding hunting environment of
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: your adjacent landowners. A lot of us we're talking small
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: parcels here, you know, and and a bad neighbor or
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: a couple of bad neighbors can make your life miserable
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: and make you wish you'd never done it. Now, there's
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: always the opportunity to influence those guys for the better,
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: and you know, impact them through management, and you're sharing
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: your success and trying to teach your friends and or
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: your neighbors. However, they are just some that they're just
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: this way and they're never going to change. And you
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: know you sometimes you don't know that until you get
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: into the situation, and it's a little bit awkward when
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: you're checking on trying to find out information about neighbors
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: and how they hunt. And but hopefully you've got a
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: buddy or a contact or an agent that's representing you well, um,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: you know, as a white tail properties agent, we try
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: to find that out for our buyers, because if there's
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: a tree stand on every side of the property, you
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: tend feed off the line facing again I'm going to
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: tell you, you you know, and maybe maybe that's a scenario
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: that you can that you can remedy or or mediate,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: but sometimes you can't. Um. But that that's probably in
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: the Midwest, especially in some more more the populated areas
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: of the of the not too far off a drive
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: out of town, that's what you're going to find. Um.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: But when you find one that has no pressure, no
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: hunting evidence around you, maybe you hear through the grapevine
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: that this landowner next door doesn't allow hunting at all,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: that's just an I mean, that's a gold mine when
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: you can find those kind of situations. I actually, Mark,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: I I just defaulted into a great, a great scenario. Um.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: I have an adjacent landowner that has a huge parcel
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: next door to me, and they don't. Um, they don't
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: take on they just let a couple of people hunt.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: And they've been that way all through the time that
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: I've owned, so I've ended up with a really good,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: low pressure scenario next door to me. And I just, man,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: I can find count my lucky stars every time I
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: go out there, because it could have been completely the
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: hunter eighty degrees out is that? Yeah, Yeah, that's that's
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: great that it worked out that way. And I do
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: think that I have heard so many people talk about
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: the importance of that of that neighborhood. And and to
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: your point, though, it does seem tricky, like how do you, like,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: do you just knock on a bunch of people's doors
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: and say, hey, I'm thinking about buying this farm, can
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: you can you tell me what you're doing back here? Um? Yeah,
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: it's an awkward deal. Yeah, but I guess it's something
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: that maybe is worth doing in a lot of scenarios. Um.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: You mentioned one thing that I would be curious about
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: your opinion on, which was, you know, seeing if the
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: price of the farm was within what the market should
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: be in that area. How would you recommend going about,
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: you know, pricing out a farm, determining what's the fair
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: cost breaker, etcetera for a given piece, Because I feel
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: like if you're not within that world of real estate
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: or understanding what kind of you know, tillable land or
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: just non tillable land costs, all those things, like I
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: haven't found a great resource that I can like look
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: to this says okay in this county, this is what
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: it should be going for in this county, etcetera. Is
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: there anything out there way of doing this. I'm glad
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: you asked me that. The old way for us, even
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: as agents, was we we would have to just go
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: to the county courthouse and go to the recorder's office,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: you know, and just be polite to the ladies there
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: and and gentlemen, but ask if you can UM search
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: into some of the recent recently sold properties, and um
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: they can help you out if they're really busy. Sometimes
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: that's not the highest thing on the priority list. But
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: that was the way to go to go about asking
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: for some reasons. Can you show me, UM, any woods
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: fifty acres are larger in the last six months or
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: the last couple of months that have sold, and you
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: can get in there in a database and find some
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: stuff that way. Recent sales are what we call comparables.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: You know, something that's in the same county, maybe even
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: the same township if you can with a similar composition
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: of habitat types. Remember tillable land and timber tracks can
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: vary greatly in and there price from one county to
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: the next, even one region of a county based on
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: soil productivity. And say, for example, in the woods, your
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: timber value, if you've got a well stocked, marketable, stand
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: up timber, it could be a hundred of thousand dollars
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: more than than a track down the road that's just
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: got average or below average. But the resource I'm going
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: to tell you about that we've just recently been introduced
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: to within the last year is acre value dot com
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: and it's it is a website that you can go
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: on and and sign up a membership. I think it's well,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: I'm afraid if I I want to say it's less
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: than a hundred dollars a year. Okay, Um, I may
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: be wrong there, but it's been a while since I've
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: signed up, so I've I've forgotten. But anyway, you can
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: dial down to the specific area that you're looking in
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: and you can click on either click on the field
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: and it will show you what it's estimated value is
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: based on many factors moisture, crop history, soil tie, soil productivity.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: That it will give you the n c c P
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: I rating for a farm field which might be next
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: door to your woods that you're looking at, and that's
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: like a standardized index for crop production that one through
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: a hundred. I believe is the top end is a
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: hundred maybe not second guessing myself anyway, it'll tell you
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: what the county average is and you can see how
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: that particular field compared to the to the county average.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: But also on there is a soulds You click on
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: a sold column and you back out and boom, you'll
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: see all these ribbons show up with these prices, and
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: you just start clicking on farms and it will show you.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: It will go back several years all the way up
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: to current and it will show you recent sales in
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: the area of what what properties woods and tillable and
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: combined have sold for. And it's a super great resource
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: for us. And we can also click on download the
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: report and you can boom. You can hit it, send
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: it to an email address and share it with your
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: buddy take it to the bank. You know, there's a
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: lot of ways you can utilize that database for your
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: for your benefit. It um. I will tell you when
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: you're clicking on a farm and you see you see
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: one down the road that's you know, just say it's
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: sold for a hundred sixty dollars and a comparable acreage
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: right a couple of streets over a couple of county
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: roads over sold for three d seventy five. Take a
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: look at that, because usually those larger farms, they don't
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: oftentimes break it down into improvements of what structures are
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: on there. So I would just really if you see
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: a high number or really known low number, probably tossed
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: those out because there's gonna be a farm shop or
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: a home or something on there that is positively influenced
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: the price. Or you may see one that was sold
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: from a dad to his son that is half price
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: of what you would think it should be. So you
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: just caution yourself to look at the lows and highs
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: and and maybe sort of settle in an average of
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: the middle ground, and and that'll that'll get you, guys
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: really close. That's that's great, great advice. That's a really
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: helpful resources. Sounds like I'm definitely have to check that out. Um. Yeah,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: so so chat with the neighbors doing some research like this. Um,
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: what about when you're when you're walking a farm for
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: the first time. Let's say it caught your eye online,
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: or maybe you're working with an agent or specialist and
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: they said, hey, here's what I think you should look at. Um.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: I mean I've talked to a lot of people, I've
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: done a lot of this kind of thinking myself, so
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: I know there's some basic things that you should be
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: looking for. And you kind of touched on a lot
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: of these earlier. You mentioned looking for possible places to
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: plant food, plus looking at the cover, looking at possible access. Um,
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: are there any things kind of next level that people
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: maybe overlook or anything that you just think is so
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: so important it's worth drilling into a little further as
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: far as what to pay attention to when you're you know,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: looking at it that first time or doing some several
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: walkthroughs trying to make a decision. Right, that's a good question, Um,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: sort of a thirty ft above the thing I would
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: I would sort of base things on or at least
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: maybe take a look at it. But of course, the
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: record books are really good sources. You can look in, say,
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: if my home state of Indiana, you can go into
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: the Who's Your Record Book or the Boode and Crockett
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: book and look at some counties that are that are
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: notable and producing more. There's a reason for that, and
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: that's nine times out of ten, and it's because those
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: those areas of state have highly productive soils. Soils create
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: growth for better plants, which ultimately create bigger anfers. Everything
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: is based on soil productivity in the end. So if
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: you can just if you have no idea where to start,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: that might be a starting point, um and then and
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: even dial that down little, that down, a little farther
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: to townships within the county that might be more productive.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: When you're looking at properties in general, like listings or
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: right ups. Of course, it's said that the mom and
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: pop real estate companies don't really show you anything other
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: than one aerial photo. They don't really give you a
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: lot of detail because just frankly, some of those folks
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: just don't know what what the woods is different from
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: the woods from the woods. You know, that's all the
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: same to them. But what when we list properties and
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: I know there's others that try to mimic this too,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: but they were gonna show every detail that we can
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: that we feel is going to be important to a buyer.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: You know, water sources, where you park, um, is there
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: a gate, how do you access? Is there a trail
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: system through it? Is there a pond for fishing or
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: other Is there a good cabin spot or a place
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: to put a camper? Is their power down the road? UM?
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: I think that that those are sort of baseline generalized questions.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Dialing down a little bit deeper. We talked about the openings,
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: but there's always a possibility of creating your own openings,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: which is what I did on my place. But timber
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: value is a big one. And if you don't know,
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: um what you're looking at, and you don't know that
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: the particular agent knows what timber values are currently and
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: what this property may offer you, it's always a good
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: idea to take take somebody along um or or have
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: you know, have somebody in your back pocket, a consulting
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: force or that you can call on for advice, or
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: maybe even take some photos of some of the trees
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: that you're seeing that are larger, because there's there's several
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: things to be said about timber values. And obviously it
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: will help you create an income over a perpetual period
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: of time if you're managing your property as a long
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: term sustainable timber property. But there's also the advantage of
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: converting an older stand of woods into an ideal white
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: tail habitat, which luckily for us, includes harvesting some timber.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: And those two go hand in hand. So if you
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: see a big, giant set of woods with large trees, um,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: a lot of people who and over that. But that's
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: that's the worst case scenario for a great white tailed
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: deer habitat. But man, it could create some income for
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: you immediately and then allow you to enjoy the process
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: of converting woods into ideal scenario for white tails for
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: food and cover, um, but also responsibly. I mean, we
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: could do. You know. I like to think about doing
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: a harvest on my property every to ten years because
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not cutting too far down into the
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: size base. That's I've always got a new crop of
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: of marketable trees coming on in five to ten years. UM.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: Those are the things to think about. Prevailing wind is
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: a big one for me to a lot of guys
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: have no choice but to be able to park on
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: the west side of their woods, you know. And in
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: here in central Indiana of the time, we have a
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: west northwest southwest wind. And if you're parking and entering
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: your property from the same direction every time, UM, the
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: mature bucks know you're there before you ever even get
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: close to the stand. In my opinion, I mean that
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: that's an over over generalization, but you know what I mean,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: especially on a smaller piece, so wind direction and the
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: ability to um have several different possibilities or or choices
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: for points of entry is really key to to not
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: pressuring these smaller parcels and and and having the best
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: success and the most fun and hunting them. What was
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: that feeling like for you when you when you pull
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: the trigger on that first property? You tell me about that,
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: Just it's just complete elation, you know, It's just like
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: a dream come true. It's like winning the lottery. I
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: don't know, I can't explain it in enough detail, but um,
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: it's just jumping up and down, walking outside of the
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: out of the closing company, you know, in high five,
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: and man, it's finally happened. The very first, the very first,
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: UM one that's really truly going to be mine. And yeah,
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: it's a feeling I'll never forget. And I may say this,
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm fifty I'll be fifty three in July.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: And that first piece we bought twenty three or twenty
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: four years ago. I get the same feeling every time
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: I open that gate and drive up there and parked
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: the truck and get out and just you know, to
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: look around and man, I can't believe this is mine.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: And there's just no no greater feeling in the world
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: that really isn't. And unlike unlike some, I never was
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: really interested in UM flipping and turning and getting the
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: next I always immediately felt like, this feels so good
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: and so right. I just want to try to add
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: to this right here if I can over time, and
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: luckily I was able to do somewhat um of a
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: pretty decent edition just a few years ago. But yeah,
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: there's no greater feeling, man, just finally getting it done
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: and signing the papers and getting handed the keys, and
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: the first day you go out there and the first
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: step on it, it's just it's just it's indescribable. I
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: can't imagine UM. And you know, you you mentioned that
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: additional piece. He guy, I understand that you had a
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: pretty nice scenario where a neighboring landowner was going to
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: sell and it was kind of bordering you on two
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: different sides. Can you tell me how that all came together?
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: And krimin if I'm wrong, but I think I heard
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: like it was a deal where you weren't sure you
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: could afford it, but you thought it's kind of an
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: opportunity that comes once in lifetime. I gotta find a
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: way to make it happen. Like, how did that all
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: come together? That's a great question. That that story is
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: just loaded with twists and turns and sleepless nights and
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: and feelings of despair. And I mean, you know, sometimes
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: a deal comes along that you can't afford not to
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: but you can't afford to do it either, And I
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: was trapped in one of those scenarios. Um not to
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: get too deep into my personal um financial situation, but
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you guys that when the market crashed in No.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: Seven and oh eight, I was still running a full service,
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: full time landscaping company. I had invested heavily in the
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Ferminator food plot implement as you mentioned, earlier that we
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: had just created and we were really taking it and
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: launching it to the next level. I just heavily invested
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: in engineering and design and machining work and stockpiling product
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: for Manifest Acturing because we just released the Ferminator Generation three,
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: the G three model. So man, we were just looking
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: looking at the future with just why eyes wide open.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: I say, we my wife and my daughters, and everything
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: was looking great and the industry received it well. All
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: the all the feedback that I got from clients was outstanding.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: Everybody was thrilled with the machine. And then everything just
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: went crashing down UM in a matter of days. And
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: I say that because I was still running a twentysomething
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: year old company that was we we did full surface
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: landscape design, installation, and maintenance here in Indianapolis, and I
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: had a lot of big in clients that we did
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: renewable contracts every year, and you start relying on that.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: That's sort of like a just a cash flow. Obviously
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: was speeding my family and taking pay in our bills,
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: but I was also financing and funding these these side
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: things with that. UM. I didn't have any investors. I
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: did everything on our own. We didn't take any money
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: from anybody. Well, you know, my dad here and there
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: gave me five grandten granted paid him back, But I'm
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: talking like big, big money, you know. So, um, when
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: when things tried up, I lost all my big accounts
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: within a week, and a lot of the custom builders
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: that I worked for or didn't answer the phone the
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: next day, and we got left left to hang on
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: a lot of payables that we never got and I
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: had a big you know, I had a lot of
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: employees that counted on me, and things got really really tough.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: Um And in to this day, I don't know that
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: we've completely fully recovered, but we're close. So we went
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: through a really long period of some just tough times
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: rebuilding and trying to pay old debts down and make
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: sure everybody, you know, just everybody deals with certain things
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: on their own in different ways, and we we had
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: a tough goal about about it. And this opportunity surface
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: somewhere in the middle of all that, you know, and
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: I knew I couldn't I couldn't go get financed for it.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: There was no way, I mean, I was just absolutely
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: no way. And I was trying to be really creative
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: and and look at. That's one thing that I've always
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: I've always felt like if there's a way, there's a
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: will I can, I can put the two together and
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: make something happen. And I worked really really hard on
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: that and I ended up I remember I was driving
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: down to I believe it was the National Wild Turkey
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: Federation National Convention in Tennessee, and I called um, my neighbor,
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: and I had been dealing with her son in law,
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: and I remember telling him, Man, I I can't believe
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: I'm getting ready to say this, but I've tried everything
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: I can think of, and there's just no way I
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: can do it. I said, I really really it sickens
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: me to say that. And I don't know, I just
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: I guess I've come to have a piece about letting
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: it go. And I really appreciate you letting me have
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: this time to try to work out a way to
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: make it happen. But it God's got out of plans,
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: I guess, because I've've run into dead ends everywhere I've went.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: And I said, the only only way that I could
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: even possibly do this because if you guys would consider
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: giving me a short term land contract, and and I
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: knew that wasn't their their preference. They were trying to
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: free ups in capital for for for family reasons. And UM,
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: I just remember hanging up the phone and just taking
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: a big side like I just did there. And and
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: I funny Mark, because I actually felt pretty good after
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: some Sometimes that distress can really wear a guy out,
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: and and it had been on me on that deal,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: so I remember it felt kind of good to say that,
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: even though I was about to cry. And as it
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: would be, he called me back um a week later
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: and said, hey, we we've talked about this, and there's
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: nobody else that we would rather have this than you,
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: and we're willing to work with you on a contract.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: And knock on wood, thank god they did that. They
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: did that with me. So um I was able to
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: acquire the adjoining sixty two and a half acres. That's
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: amazing and and that must have been a huge, huge
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: new project and level of enjoyment to then kind of
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: see your your property and the projects you've been working
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: on to kind of ripple out through this new area.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: Right it did? Yeah, And now um now I had
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: access to a lot of the ridges that I felt
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: like the Bucks were betting on. Um I had access
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: to a seventeen acre interior crop field that I knew
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: was an evening destination field for all the white towns.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: You know, my my two three plots up in the timber.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: We're basically just um stopping points for the deer as
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: they worked their way down to the bottoms. And we
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: had some great success with that. But now I had
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: a destination field that we can do some fantastic things with.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: And it's funny that you say that because we just now, Um,
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: I'm ready to pull the trigger. Starting next month, I'm
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: converting that seventeen acre field to all habitat that is
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: still going to have some really large cove, food sources,
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: food plot locations in the end. One's going to be
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: corn and being rotational large eggs I say large. It's
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: gonna be three or four acres, and then an annual
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: field on one end, and then a clover buffer all
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: the way around it, basically a road warm season grass mixes,
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: big blue, Indian and switch um all through the sides,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: and then a center planting of late holding oak species
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: late leaf holding oak species for a tree planning down
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: the center of it um you know, three thousand plus trees,
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: so I'm really excited about that because it's it's going
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: to just take this to the next level. It's going
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: to take a few years obviously for it to begin
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: to take some effect, but I say three years from now,
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: I'm going to start seeing some pretty big results. So
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: can you walk me through why you're doing that? Because
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: right now you've got a seven are destination food source
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: that sounds like there was pulling a lot of deer
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: into this area. What was the why was that not ideal?
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: And why is the new situation better? Um, it's it's
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: more food than they needed. Number one. Um. That may
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: sound crazy to some people, but I think in my
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: area where I am at, the missing component is early
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: successional either old field type habitat of warm season grass
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: fields that that really big thicket brushy edge. So I'm
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: creating a thicket with my tree plannings in the middle. Um,
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: you know, they'll have rows between them of weeds and
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: grasses and and I will plant them in a cover
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: crop of clovers and and sort sort of keep things
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: at bay just to get the trees up and going.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: But my ideal scenario is to let that thing flush
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: with tall grasses. Need need to waste tig grasses and forbes.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: And then let as the trees begin blow up and
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: they'll they'll be in their holding leaves. I'm gonna I'm
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: gonna mix in a decent component, a small percentage I
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: shouldn't say large, but a small percentage of the eastern
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: red seaters dotted throughout that just for a an evergreen
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: component in there. Not too heavy, not too light. But
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: I believe I'm going to be adding and providing a
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: new habitat type that is lacking and uh and I
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: really believe that I can hold more mature bucks on
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: the property with you know, literally twelve or fifteen acres
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: of just thick, dense, absolute nasty bedding cover with great
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: foods right out you know, um a hundred yards step
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: out of the out of the grass that that brushy
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: old field habitats hard to beat, it is. And I'm
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: creating those alone with the warm season grasses. And the
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: cool thing is the clover road is going to be
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: um sixteen to thirty two ft wide, uh six excuse me,
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: sixteen wide all the way around the perimeter, all the
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: way around the tree planning, and all the way around
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: the crop where every edge touches. There will be a
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: clover buffer road between it, and you know, for me,
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: that's access, but it's also a firebreak, and it also
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: doubles as a great food source. I'm going to have
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: chickeren clover, pringer clovers, and they're combined. So when you
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: add it all up, there's two and a half the
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: three acres of clover just in the firebreak all the
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: way around the field. And not to mention, you'll have
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: a four acre ag field of standing crops. I'm going
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: to leave the beans and corn stand every year that
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: the deer will finish them up they won't be harvested,
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: and a rotational cove at the other end of the
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: field which will be annual greens and grains, just to
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: complement what I've got going up in the timber by
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: the way. So when you add it all up, there's
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: gonna be I have four up there now, we'll probably
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: have about twelve acres total in food when you add
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: up all the woodland plots, plus the fire breaks, plus
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: what we're going to leave standing down in the bottoms.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: And this area is primarily outside of the food source
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: you've created. It's primarily the big timber is that right,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: big timber on the hills and large jagg fields in
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: the bottoms and on some of the tops. So you've
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: just got these real good traditional breaks you know of
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: the uh. And there may be several hundred contiguous sinkers
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: of timber in certain stands. So it's definitely not your
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: broken woodlot situation like I have over here in east
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: central Indiana. It's large contiguous because it's all drainage related,
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: you know. So you've got some good topography changes, flat bottoms,
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: nice rolling ridge hillsides, and then some flat tops. Yeah.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: So something you mentioned this uh, this thicket you're trying
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: to create there in the middle of what's now a field.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: You talked about planning some oaks, you talked about putting
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: in some little cedars. This is something I've always wondered
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: about because I've wondered, you know, if you buy a
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: little chunk that's just a wide open crop field maybe
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: and thought to try to convert that into dear habitat,
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: Like what would be the right way to create to
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: create cover from the ground up? Is it you know,
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: drilling in native grasses or warm season grasses and then
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: that works up or something like what sounds like you're
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: doing planting some trees. But are you? And I might
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: have missed this because I know you mentioned I think
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: you mentioned putting in some clover something within their UM.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: Correct me if I'm wrong on that. But what is
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: there anything else you're doing for the thicket part other
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: than planting the trees or what else is going on there?
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: Are you gonna do anything to encourage certain types of
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: forbes and native things to come back up, or what's
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: the strategy there. I'm really going to rely on the
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: seat that's in the soil bank, and I think that's
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: a pretty safe bed across us much of the range
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: here where we deal with in the Midwest. UM. I
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: will say the reason I mentioned throwing some cover crop,
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: I'll probably put some winter wheat and perennial clover in
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: the rows in between the trees, just for giving them
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: a heads up advantage, headstart on getting a few years
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: and above competing adjacent weeds and um, you know, other plants.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: I think what I'm trying to accomplish there, Obviously it's
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: a food source, but I want to suppress some weed
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: growth until my trees can get several years of age
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: on them and you don't have to do that. I
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: know of many, many successful tree plannings where all you
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: do is throw them in the field. I say throw them,
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: you plan them in the field, and the rows you
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: go back occasionally with the herbicide and spray just along
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: the trees, just in a band on either side of
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: the tree, and whatever happens in the middle happens. And um,
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm prepared. I'm a little bit more of a
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: maintenance freak. I don't have to have meat and tidy
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: like I used to when I was younger. So I
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: understand and appreciate a dirty weedy thing is a good
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: thing in many cases. But I want to give those
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: trees a head start to not have um immediate competition
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: with adjoining weeds that could can it be out and
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: and shade them in rob sunlight and nutrients and moisture
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: from them. But my my plan is marked to basically
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: slowly just let those clover buffer strips between the rows
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: just just go back to native ants. Um. Now, of
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: course I'll keep an eye on that. I don't want
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: multi floora rose and privet and and Japanese honeysuckle and
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: things like that popping in. But if it's ragweed and
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: brome sedge and grasses and things like that, I'm you know,
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: I'm all four. Yes, that's what I was kind of
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: wondering about. So it sounds like there it's important to
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: know to kind of know your weeds, know your native forage,
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: and then to go on there and selectively select out
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: certain things and apply herb sides to the bad stuff
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: and then allow the good stuff to grow. Right. Yeah,
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: that's much much easier than trying to promote good things.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: Just let let mother nature happen and you can spot
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: and select and if even if you have a little
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: bit more of a of a blanket competition, then you
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: anticipated you can certainly, you know, throw a two four
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: D on it to kill everything but the grasses, or
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: you know, the other way around, or just do if
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: it's it's most cases you'll find that it's it's easy
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: enough to ride the rose with a on your four
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: wheeler or side by side with a tank sprayer and
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: at and just spot spray and you can really, I mean,
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: one guy can cover a lot of a lot of
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: ground and no time flat with that. Um, I think
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: it's worth mentioning in this time because there's obviously a
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: lot of different trains of thought and a lot of
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: attitudes about warm season grasses versus old deal habitat. A
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: really good personal friend of mine and a dear friend
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: and somebody I respect as much as anybody in this
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: industry is Dr Craig Harper, and he talks a lot
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: about just putting away the mower and let a field
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: just be a field, let it see what it does,
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: and it's and it's the as good or better habitat
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: than anything you could plant, including warm season grasses. And
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: I agree with Craig and a lot of levels. And
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: I just think that there's uh the stands of warm
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: season grasses that I've been able to grow here in Indiana.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: One of the things that Craig likes to point out
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: is that if you lay out in the field of
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: grasses that don't cannot be out, you'll lay above polcas.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: He says, it's extremely hot. And I can understand that. Um.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: And I've seen some poor plannings that haven't done as
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: well where you the sun is beating the ground. Um.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: And maybe I've just been lucky and and and had
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: some good soils to work with and some good successful plannings,
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: because well, I've had some switched grass Indian a big
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: blue stem plannings that you've had to take your arms
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: out in front of you apart. It like you're walking
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: through a curtain, you know. And there's definitely shade on
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: the ground, and they stand up extremely well through the wintertime.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: They're not laid over by a heavy snow. Um. The
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: Craig's points are exactly that he wants something that's going
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: to provide some shade, and you want something that's going
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: to stand well in the wintertime. UM, So look at
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: what works well in your area, or use a combination
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: of both. I'm trying to accomplish both with my personal
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: property planning. But I've had such good luck with some
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: tall natives of the right subspecies, uh, cultivars of the
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: species that that are that are worth investigating. I think
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: the over craig and I absolutely understand what he means.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: I just know that if I could show him some
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: of my fields. And I'm not saying I'm better than anybody,
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: but I've had some really good successful fields that I
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: that I would love to show him or anybody that
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: wants to see where a deer can can bet out
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: there all day long in the heat, and as the sunsets,
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: I see him stand up and those antlers pop up
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: out of that grass and start walking towards you. That's
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: a cool feeling. Do you think is there any kind of,
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: um certain scenarios where one would be the better choice
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: than the other, Like is is the let an old
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: field be an old field the better just budget scenario,
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: and then the warm season grasses is the better scenario
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: if you've got if you want to invest or is
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: there any way to help someone make the choice of
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: which to try first or which is the better option? Great?
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: Great question, And yes, um, I would say for young
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: guys just getting started, and maybe you don't have the
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: equipment or the you know, the deep pockets to buy
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: Let's face it, native warm season grasses can be expensive.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: You know you're going to spend a couple hundred dollars
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: possibly an aker um in those plantings, and if you've
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: got anything, and honestly, this is another probably a point
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: where the will be different opinions. It's really recommended to
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: have no less than five acres of warm season grasses
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: if you're going to do it at all, because that
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: the whole idea is you're creating a sanctuary in a
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: place where nobody goes. And but those small pieces that
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: size are very effectively hunted by predators and coyotes and
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: bobcats can walk the down wind side of a three
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: acre or five acre planning and and no any fond
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: that's laying out there or no any you know, so
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: it's not going to quite give you that that size
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: advantage of the delution effect where they get lost in
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: the sea of grass basically so far out there that
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: your deer safe because of the fact that just the
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: entirety of the thing so um getting back to the point,
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: you know, just think about it. Native seeds don't cost
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: you anything. We're laying out there right now. They just
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: need they just need an encouragement. One of the easiest
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: things to do if you want to just try it
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: for a year to see if it will work for you.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: Most native forbes and eat seeds are suppressed by sod
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: thickets of grass, and if you spray a fallow field
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: in the waning days of summer into the early days
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: of fall, all that herbicide is going to be taken
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: down to the route by those grasses and killed. So
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: Now you start the spring off with a dead layer
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: of grass, but the seed that's laying there viable, waiting
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: for some sunlight and waiting for some water, finally gets
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: triggered and can grow. So all you've done is spent
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: twenty bucks on some glyphosate to spray, you know, a
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: couple of acres of ground and a little bit of time,
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: and you'll be really really surprised at what can happen
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: by just letting something go on its own, and you know, hey,
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with give it a year and see
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: what kind of component you have in there. Uh. Common
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: ragweed is actually a very highly nutritious plant that grows
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: up in the first year, and it can be a
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: really good, fortified foot tall, shady, broadly composition of of
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: a fallow field. But if you walk out there in
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: July and August and it's bald knobs and open soil
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: and very little this and very little that, then you
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: can maybe understand that either the seed bank is lacking,
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: or maybe you had also had in decent growing season
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: not enough moisture, maybe the soil nutrients are poor there.
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: But at least it will tell you in giving indication
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: of what you might decide to do the following year. Yeah,
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: Now can you explain to me the rationale for the
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: timing of your herbside application? Why not UM spray you know,
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: first thing the spring, when everything's just starting to grow again,
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: so you could have a stand of new native vegetation
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: that first fall. Well, I think that the idea that
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: we're trying to get past is we want our our
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: forbes and broad leaves to be dormant and and going
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: into dormancy or gone. So the tops are drying down,
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: but the cool season grasses are very liable and they
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: are flushing excuse me, they're sucking nutrients to the route.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: And the difference between that and the springtime is actually
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: is think about a tree, like a maple tree. The
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: sap starts flowing up, you just get so much better
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: of a of a herbicide intake if you're if you're
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: catching that plant as it's trying to store nutrients going
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: into dormancy, and you're just going to get us so
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: much more of an effective kill. So um, But the
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: timing is critical because you don't want to spray if
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: you still probably what I mean waning days of summer fall.
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: We want the we want your broad leaf wheats and
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: forms to be dried up and brown and the grad
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: This could be November, by the way, depending on where
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: you're at in the Midwest. Um, you know our cool season,
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: we're still mowing grass sometimes here in Indiana, and you
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: know before Thanksgiving that that you want to catch it
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: at the very end of the growing season, when that
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: grass is still green, hasn't been frost killed or um
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: frost let not say killed, but frost um dormant, you know,
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: gone dormant because of the cooling temperatures. A couple light
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: frost won't do it. It's going to be a more
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: of a freeze that sets that button to where it
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: tells the plant Okay, it's time to go go to sleep.
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: It's so so man, this is this is all stuff
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: that's very interesting to me right now as I'm thinking
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: through different places I've been looking at UM and and
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: very helpful too, because I think that you see a
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: lot of properties where UM to an untrained eye, which
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: I would say when it comes to identifying my my
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: grasses and and cool season grasses, warm seas and grasses,
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: various forbs and weeds and different things of that I'm
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: not good at identifying those yet to to mine untrained eye.
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: I can look at a place and I see scattered
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: cedar trees, and I see some nice I see grasses
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: laying down right now, and I'm thinking, oh, man, I
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: bet you this is great, all this grassy habitat and
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: these scattered trees and everything. But it's probably some of
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: those low quality grasses that you mentioned, some kind of
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: brome or whatever it is that's very low quality. And
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: if right now it's all laid very flat to the ground,
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: that's another indication it's not the best stuff, right, um. Correct.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: So there's ways that you can, as you just said,
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: with herbicide, I could probably improve that composition through a
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: little bit of smart management versus just letting what's probably
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: a non native grass. Probably what's in there right now anyways, Right, well,
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: it's probably a native grass if it's tall and has
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: that that whispy look like a very common. Um. Rough
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: field grasses is broom sedge, that's really really common. But
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: we're talking about the carpet grasses, you know, like your
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: tall fescues with Kentucky thirty one, which is the stuff
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: that the old cattle farmers used to plan everywhere it
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: has a broad green, wide grass blades. If it comes
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: up in your yard it looks ugly. You see that
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: clumpy grass out there, that that is a that is
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: a preennial grass, and it's a sod forming, thicket forming
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: grass that just outcompete everything. So the taller grasses, even
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: if it's a knee high like a saidge or something
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: in that family, those aren't necessarily they're more than likely natives,
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: but they're not necessarily a bad thing. But they make
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: a good very very very importantly, they make a part
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: a component of what would be a good stand um.
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: So if those things are popping up here and there,
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: they're they're they're just getting an opportunity to poke through
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: some sunlight and trying to grow um mark on that.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: There's a couple other methods that we didn't touch yet
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: when it talks about when we want to talk about
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: possibly letting an old field do its thing, and that's
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: running a disk through it um a disk or fire,
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: but by scarifying the soil. A real common practice in
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: a lot of wildlife management plans is to do what's
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: called strip disking, where you just run a disc through
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: the soil and disturb and just basically free up some
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: uh seeds that are waiting there for an opportunity to grow,
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: and that could be in conjunction right after a burn
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: excuse me, a burnt down what I meant to say,
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: when you kill some things with herbicide. Um, sometimes people
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: will just run a disk through a green fallow field
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: and and um springtime. Honestly, you know, there's a there's
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: a difference between getting a better standup forbes and encouraging
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: more grasses to grow bye bye when you disk it,
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: either in the spring or in the fall. And I
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: would say either as good, you know, and you're gonna
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: get You're gonna get results either way. It's some more
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: or less a timing thing for when when you have
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: the ability to get in there and not interfere with
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: with other parts of your your habitat plan or your hunting.
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: You know, sometimes guys don't want to be in their
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: running a tractor around spraying and disking when it's when
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: they want to be um leaving their sanctuaries alone for
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: but for their deer to just to have peace. So um,
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: springtime is always a good time to be doing some
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: projects like this. But that spraying method about killing your
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: sod right before it goes dormant. And everybody wants to
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: be deer hunting in November, but that could be well
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: worth it for the following year. Yeah, so so doing
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: the tim irviside application. That's one way you mentioned the
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: strip skiing. UM. Something I've heard Dr Craig Harper talk
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: a lot about UM is not mowing. A lot of
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: people like to mow their stuff. Can you explain why
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: that is that that folks that mowing might not be
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: the best option for resetting a field or working on
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: a field. Well, it's a lot of people. I think
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: Craig's Craig's um. Everybody laughs when he talks about this
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: during his speeches and and it's like, there's time to
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: go fire up a tractor just to go mow the field.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: And it'll be why why do you why do you
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: want to do that? Why? Well, like nothing else to do,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: it might as well mow. Um. We're just so ingrained
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: to have our properties looking like like yards and uh,
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: it's in direct competition with what a wildlife manager UM
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: should be doing. There was absolutely no reason to mow
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: a field down when you're trying to do early successional growth. Um,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: I you're just you're basically resetting the plants. You're cutting
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: them off and having him start the life cycle all
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: over again. Um. Now, that's that's one thing to be
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: talking about that in a food plot situation, when you're
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: creating new growth on clover or alfalfa, that the high
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: protein comes up. But we're really kind of comparing apples
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: and oranges here. If you're trying to grow some structure
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: with some so basically you know, food and cover together.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: Where you've got a mixed field of grasses and forms
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: and weeds, beneficial weeds don't break out the more. Let
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: let them get some size to them because you're you're
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: you're you're trying to create hand and glove cover and
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: food at the same time. Yeah, correct me if I'm
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: wrong here. But you know, it's it's easy when guys
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: like us start talking about these things. It's really easy
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: to get so focused on white tails because obviously we
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: love them so much. They they take up so much
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: of our mind space as we're we're thinking about and
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: planning all these things around our deer hunting. Um, but
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: new or old field growth or whatever it might be
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: building early successional habitat that really benefits all sorts of
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: other wildlife too. Like if we look at what we're
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: doing on a property not as just creating a better
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: deer hunting situation, but also managing the entire you know,
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: wildlife population, trying to benefit things that are at our
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: higher level, Isn't this one of the best ways to
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: do that? And I will say now is a good
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: time to point out if there's if we're odds with
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: anything with a multi species beneficial planning, it maybe going
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: for the densest, tallest, warm season grass planning you can find.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: And I'm guilty of that because some of well, my
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: property number one, number one goal for me is is thick, nasty,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: gnarly deer bedding habitat um. Yeah, it's true, big blue
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: Indian and switch that the big three are bunch grasses,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: which means if you got down on your hands and
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: knees and crawled through a field, you're going to have
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: a clump here fifteen inches over here as a clump,
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: twelve inches over there as a clump. So you have
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: these little runways and tunnels that small game can utilize.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: But in all honestly, it's not quite as friendly user
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: friendly to say quail. Um. Now, turkeys will get in
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: there around the edges and nest in that. Quail like
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: a little bit more of a uh to to have
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: the ability to fly up out of that. They tend
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: to get a little bit too bogged down and the
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: really tall grasses. So um. Multiple species benefit probably the
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: most from an old field habitat that's managed correctly, um
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: and then reset according to when it's when it starts
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: to mature, it turns into saplings, which turns into young
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: you know, young forests, and on down the road, on
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: down the line. But warm season grasses can be tailored
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: in their mixes and blends to be you throw in
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: a few short grasses in there as well. You throw
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: in some some forbes that have some seed component to
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: them when they mature that are known for seeds that
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: are beneficial, like partridge p is an excellent one for
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: for quail. And you can, depending on what your objective is,
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: you can you can tailor a warm season grass season
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: grass planning to be sort of full spectrum and be
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: of the law of averages benefit everything. Um. And I
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: just I reserved revert back to that explanation for me
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: using the big three in a in a tight dense
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: planting is is just strictly for nasty buckbetting habitat. Yeah,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: and it definitely seems like there's a place, there's a
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: time and place for everything, right and um and and
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: kind of speaking back to the deer side of things though,
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: and and this probably benefits a lot of other things too.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: But when we're talking cover, we've we've spent a lot
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: of time on talking about fields, either converting a field,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: an old crop field into early successional habitat, or managing
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: a field that's already there. Um, what about the other
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: big section of your property and a big section of
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: some of the places I've looked at personally that are
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: currently mature timber, big timber. Um, I know from a
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: video I watched of yours from a handful of years ago.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: Back to this, uh, this new property that you picked up,
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: the adjacent farm that to increct me if I'm Ron's
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: but I believe you looked at timber harvest on that
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: property is a way to help supplement some of your
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: help supplement income and help pay for some of that. Maybe, um,
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: can you talk a little bit about how we should
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: be thinking about you know, finding the right way of
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: using some kind of timber harvest or management to a
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: benefit wildlife and to be maybe help with the economics
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: of the whole deal. Absolutely, in timber there's really only
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: a couple three, you know, you can count on one hand.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: Let's put that way practices that ultimately are going to
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: be management strategies that you can and they all they
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: all revolve around cutting or or selectively reducing competitive species.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: But I like to think of the easiest way that
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: you can get the most improvement on your property and
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: it won't cost you anything. As a matter of fact,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: that puts money in your pocket. Is a selective timber harvest.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: But um, I throw the caution flag out and I
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: mark you probably remember me saying that back then, is
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: that there are some really good folks out there in
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: the timber industry. It's a very competitive industry. So there's
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: just about anything you do, there's going to be there's
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: gonna be some characters of some questionable quality, you know,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: so and and and not only what I mean by
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: that is what they would pay you for their for
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: your commodity, but also in the job that they will do.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: And by that I mean are they going to damage
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: a lot of other trees in the process. Are they
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: going to come in when it's completely wet and right
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: up your property and leave you with a nightmare mess?
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: So I advise doing If you don't personally know a good,
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: reputable timber buyer in your area, then then I would
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: certainly recommend contacting a private lands forester and what they
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: would do is come out and they would walk with you,
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: and they would talk with you about your objectives for
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: your property. And like me, I've got a friend of
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: mine that's a timber buyer, and I've got several friends
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: that are forestry consultants. And after years of doing this,
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: I feel comfortable having conversations both directions with these guys.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: I tell my forrester, I want to take every oak
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: tree on this ridge that's twenty inches are larger, and
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: you know, leave leave anything that eight nineteen and down
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: for the next five years um. And then I'm also
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: in between those harvest, I'm doing timber stand improvement work,
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: which means I'm hinge cutting on my place. It's beech trees.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: We you might have seen a video that we did
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: for land Beat on white tail properties and also for
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: the management advantage a couple episodes based on on on
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: hinge cutting. But with what you have to work with,
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: everybody's got a different composition. Mine happened to be an
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: absolute surplus of young coming in beach trees from one
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: inch in diameter up to you know, twelve inches and
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: creating some light to the floor and laying over trees
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: to create additional structure for cover for betting. UM. But
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: where I'm going with this is a good managed timber
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: inventory harvest can result in the opening of your canopy,
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: some dollars in your pocket, new growth for the next
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: fifteen to twenty years that will be friendly and beneficial
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: to your wildlife, and UM the ability to go in
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: and manage you know, around and in between those harvests
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: to create an ongoing perpetual situation. UM. So back to
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: the back to the consultant. He will mark the trees
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: for you and basically give you an estimate of value
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: based on the size, which relates to total board feet.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: And there's a market value for each particular species based
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: on the current conditions. And then it's pretty simple math
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: to do number of board eight times the dollars per
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: board foot UH to give you an estimate, and he
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: can even put the put the property out forbid to
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: several timber harvesters and um see who bids on it.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: And he can also say, hey, this guy has always
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: done a good job for me, or you might watch
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: this guy a little bit close, you know, so you're
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: gonna get some inside scooped there. But you're basically going
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: to have a supervisor that's working on behalf of you
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: to take care of you, to make sure that things
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: are being done number one, financially the right way to
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: you're going to be compensated at the market value of
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: what they might take. But also um following along to
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: make sure the cleanup is done properly. The roads are
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: a lot of times timber buyer will they'll do a
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: basic clean up job while they will backdrack the roads
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: and make a nice and smooth and they'll put water
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: bars are in, which are little damns the differt water
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: off your trail and things like that. But if you
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: need some culverts put in, if you want to a
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: road cut from this, you know, this hill down into
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: this valley to connect to that creek. Saying you know,
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: they'll say okay, well we'll just I'll just deduct that
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: out of a little bit of a couple of trees,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: you know, and you can barter that out with a
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: guy if he's there doing a clean up job with
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: a nice doz or anyway. So, um, that's number one.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: Is a timber harvest, whether you do it managing it
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: through yourself or through the consultant, is is an easy
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: way to get timberland in shape and productive for dear
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: habitat and woodland species like white to excuse me, like
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: wild turkeys and and uh, and some of our states
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: were declining habitat is causing the rough grouse to disappear.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: Rough grouse really rely heavily on that early, early successional
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: timber growth and they're disappearing from the landscape because we're
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: not doing enough harvesting in many areas of our states.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: But so let me jump in really quick here, Tom
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: and ask you, um would to be correct and assuming
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: that that right, there's gonna be some foresters, some consulting
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: foresters who are going to be kind of savvy to
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: what wildlife folks are interested in, like us when we're
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: thinking about how to do this from a deer hunting perspective,
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: and there's gonna be some consulting foresters that probably are
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: just looking to maximize profit, and it's probably important to
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: pick the right one. Is that question number one? Is
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: that true? Very true? Very true? How good forrester will
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: ask you what is your priority or what are your
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: priorities in order? And I always tell number one is
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: deer habitat or wildlife habitat. Number two is timber value,
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: perpetual timber value. In other words, I want to make
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: sure I've got marketable trees for the future. Number three
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: is this aesthetics I really have gotten over long ago,
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: the shock and all of what a what a woodland
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: looks like the week after the foresters, you know, the
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: cutters leave, I know who's going to be tops laying everywhere.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: I understand that they're gonna have You're gonna have some
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: snapped off tops here and there. So you've just gotta
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: you've gotta be able to understand and accept that. But
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: you also need to have a job that's done correctly
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: and your trees app safe around those trees that were
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: harvested and non injured, and in my opinion, the road's
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: done properly and groomed out well, so that you're left
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: with a good piece that you can manage going forward. Yeah.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: Now I always hear about timber harvests and doing some
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: management like this when it comes to hardwoods, Is there
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: any opportunity with soft woods so you've gotta stand up
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: pine trees or something. Is there ever gonna be a
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: scenario where you can find someone who where you can
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: get money out of that too, or earth these softwares
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: is not worth enough to make that that work makes
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: sense to our southern friends. Absolutely, if you're down below
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: the Mason Dixon line and really strong in Alabama and
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: Georgia the Carolinas. Timber production down there means means pine plantations,
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: and so the market that the mills are set up
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: to feed the market down there for polpwood and paper
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: and and lumber that that that relies on that particular
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: tie of wood. Up here in the Midwest, it's much
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: much tougher, tougher to find that. I won't say that
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: I've not seen fires that have found a market for softwoods,
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: and I've seen some of my friends and customers that
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: have sold some. But it's it's it's just the whole
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: thing about supply and demand. It's a completely different realm.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: We're in a different universe from those guys down there. Um,
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: it is possible, but it's I wouldn't I wouldn't count
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: on it. Um. If you find a way to sell
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: some times up here, um, I would consider yourself pretty lucky. Okay,
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: that's good to know. Definitely good to know. Um. You
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: mentioned hinge cutting. That's something we know. We've talked to
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: a lot of people about hinge cutting. It's a very
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: popular method for improving cover, for managing some degree of timber,
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: And I think probably the thing about it is it's
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: the most accessible, right anyone can go out there with
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: the proper equipment chainsaw and proper safety equipment and and
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: start making some changes that can result in pretty quick
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: you know, dear behavior changes too. Um, we won't. I
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: don't think it's worth going through the basics of what
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: hinge cutting is since I think most people know about
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: that now. But is there anything anything that you've seen
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: as far as popular, best popular? What am I trying
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: to say? Are there any types of advice out there
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: when it comes to hinge cutting that you've seen that
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: you want to say, oh no, please don't do that, Like,
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: are there any kind of means you need to fix
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: or just a couple of next level things we should
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: touch on on that topic. Yeah, I would say, um,
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: just for example, being around some some professionals in the
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: forest forestry industry and hearing how they have sort of a,
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: um I guess a pet peeve with with hinge cutting
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: because frankly, they've seen they've they've seen it run them
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: up and possibly way overdone incorrectly, and and um, you
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: know these guys are are trying to tell you there's
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: better ways to manage for timber, but here we are
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: as wildlife guys trying to manage our temper for wildlife. Two.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: So I would say cautionary is just to make sure
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: you can identify your tree species. That's number one. Um
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: I I don't think I've put a chainsaw on one
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: single white oak or red oak tree wild hinge cutting
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: on my property of it has been beach. And again
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: I'm that's specific to me. I'm not saying another guy
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: that has all oak timber on his property isn't going
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: to find it fine to eliminate and hinge over a
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: bunch of three and five inch white oaks. That would
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: you know that would horrify a forester in some situations.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: But the I think it's very very important understand your
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: tree species in which your mass producing, which your wildlife friendly,
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: and and have temper value. Luckily for us, the highest
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: value lumber um in our woodlands here in the Midwest,
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: also our acorn acorn producing trees for the most part,
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: red oak, white oak. White oak is the king right
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: now probably always will be in the oaks. But also, um,
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: you have you have hickory walnut. Yeah, you could say
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: deer won't utilize um, the walnut, but it is a
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: it is a nut producing tree, and it is a
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: highly valuable wood. I mean it's it's it probably rain
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: rained supreme over even the white oak for the right
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: the white walnut tree as far as market value, board
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: foot value. And then um, probably the one that that's
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: not a mass producer here in the Midwest is a
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: sugar maple um. But it's a valuable hardwood. It's it's
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: a good furniture. Would so making sure you can identify
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: the trees that have potentially masked and market value and
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: avoid cutting them unless it's absolutely necessary, and is it
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: One could argue is it necessary? Um, But if you're
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: if you're trying to free up a sixteen inch oke
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: with five small oaks underneath it. Yeah, I might, I
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: could see where you might want to hinge cut some
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: of those. But a lot of foresters bristle at that
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: because they're they've just seen guys that have then willy
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: nilly with a chainsaw and done more damage than good. Um.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: But then again, it's all it's all subjective. Is it
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: important to that guy that that he's cutting his out trees?
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: Maybe he did it on purpose and doesn't care, but
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: he is sort of eliminating some pooture marketable timber. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: So so speaking of cutting timber, Um, when you bought
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: that first fifty seven acre piece, if I if I
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: heard right, it sounds like it was mostly mostly timber,
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: and to put food in originally you had to kind
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: of carve out some spots in the timber. Is that right,
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: that's correct? Yeah? I remember, Um, I created a little
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: food plot that was once a logging deck in the timber.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: You know with that what I'm talking about where they
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: stage up, it's where they stack all the logs and
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: they get loaded on the trucks and off the hill
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: they go. So this, this little piece was probably a
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: quarter of an acre, and you know, not a small
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: not not a big field by any stretch of the imagination.
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: But it was up on an ice flat ridge top.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: And I had a tractor, and I had a bushog,
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: and I had a greater box. This was back way
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: back before the ferminator was ever a thought in my mind.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: So um. But I went up there with a chainsaw
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: and a greater box with root I mean with a
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: scarifier teeth and and cut and pushed saplings out of
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: the way and ran the box through the soil, ripping
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 1: up all the roots I could, and worked around some
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: of that. At that time, there really weren't any big stumps,
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: but maybe this stump the sides of a softball that
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: my tractor. I've worked around those, but basically created a
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: first clearing that way, and that was our food plot
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: out of property for a long long time. And then
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: when we did this harvest in two thousand and five,
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: the first big timber harvest. Um, I worked with my
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: cutter and I I flagged out those areas and I said,
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: I would like you to take every tree inside of
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: these you know, I you can put a paint spot
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: on the trees or a ribbon or flax or whatever
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: you want to do. And I said, I want everything
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: that you can possibly take, and if if, if you
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: make a penny off of it, and you're willing to
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: take it off the hill, take it, and even if
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: you don't pay me, you know, a dyme for it.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: And of course there was some marketuple trees in there,
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: but there was a lot of trees that they just
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: took because they know it's a free tree, they're going
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: to take it. They just was reducing my my um
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: labor in the end of what I was going to
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: have to clear. So we created from that that oversizing.
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: We created a one field by our camp that was
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: basically about half an acre four tenths and then another
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: one we call the South plot it's now eight tenths
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: of an acre that was an expansion of our little
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: tiny quarter acre. And then we created a two acre
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: field in the Timber that was all at one time
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: originally all forest and h that that was a cool
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: really made your major transition. Yeah, so so can you
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: help me understand how you chose these spots? Um? Sure,
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: Actually it was fairly easy because they were probably the
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: fattest fattest. They were the flattest areas on the ridges
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: that had multiple fingers dumping into like a bench or
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: a flat ridge top. So um, and it was easy
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: for access for the timber guys. They as they were
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: coming through, they basically drove right along these areas. And uh,
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: I knew it from hunting to that they were flat
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: and offered some converging trail areas and and it just
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: it made sense that way. Also, they weren't against the
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: property lines. They were well there was a nice buffer
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: between those plot locations and any surrounding property lines. So
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: there you know, no no eyes could see into those
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: areas and run the risk of having somebody sitting on
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: them and shooting into them. But um, sort of default
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: that way. I mean, there are more criteria to look at, moisture,
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: sunlight exposure, access in and out with equipment, Um, there's
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: other things to consider, but those were the ones for me.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: So then what was the process after you had the
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: loggers came in, they took out all those trees. Uh,
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: where did you go from there? In this scenario? Yeah,
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: it was it was like a tornado who went through there.
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: I've got pictures of it early on when when they
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: just finished and it was horrible. UM, but you know,
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: you expected it to look devastating. UM. I was still
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: landscape contracting at that time, so I had I had
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: a steed loader and we did buy a grapple bucket
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: for it, and and we what we did is we
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: would go out on Saturdays and Sundays on the weekend
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: and use the kid loader and take every tree top
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: and just we kept feeding a fire. We built a
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: giant fire in the middle of it, and we just
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: started burning tops and burning tops and dragon um surrounding
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: tops that we had easy access to right there, cutting
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: down the remaining trees that the guys didn't take, and
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: there were there were a lot. And you know, maybe
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: step goes off to the side, put the logs off
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: to the side as a possible firewood logs, you know,
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: for the camp. But after all the tops were earned,
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: and you have a field leftover of ash in the
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: middle and stumps about every ten ft apart. And that's
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: where the real fund began. And I say that tongue
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: in cheek we um. We rented a stump grinder, a
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: kind that attaches to the three point on a tractor,
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: and it had a little station window where you can
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: step off next to it. It was pto driven off
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: the tractor, and it had a little um basically like
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: a joystick and some buttons and you could the stump
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: grinder would move in and out and left and right
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: and up and down, of course, and we ground stumps. Um.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: We kept that thing for I don't know two weeks
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: straight and ground stumps till we were seeing him in
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: our sleep. UM. And I'm talking hundreds and hundreds of stumps.
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: That was the easy I guess you would say the
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: poor man's way. UM. Another way to do it, had
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: I had the finances or the connections, was to leave
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: the stumps a little bit higher and have somebody come
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: in with the dozer and push them all out of
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: the ground. But then again, I'm I'm dealing with giant
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: root balls, you know, and what do you do with that? Um?
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: Then you're you're piling up the root balls somewhere and
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: creating UM. So the way that we did it, we
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: ended up with a beautiful field with no litter around it,
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: no piles, no nothing, and good good soil on top
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: of the We we ground the stumps down six inches
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: below the surface and then I took my skid loader
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: when done and just push soil around and fill all
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: the little low spots in and create a nice level field.
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: So so when you're carving in a food plot like
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: this inside timber, something I've never really thought about is
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: how much of a buffer area? Like what am I
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: trying to say? Let's say I had the goal of
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: having a half acre food plot, would it be fair
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: to say that carving out exactly half acre of space
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: is not what you want to do because some amount
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: of that will be so shaded out that's not actually
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: gonna grow that if you if you want a half
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: acre food plot, you might actually want to carve out,
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: you know, six tenths of an acre, seven tenths of
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: an acre to allow for a shaded bufferster. Is any
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: of that something you ever think about? Or am I
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: overthinking it? No? No, you're not overthinking it. And we
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: mentioned it briefly a little earlier that you definitely have
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: to look at the direction of the sun in the
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: way the field orients to relationship to how the sun
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: rises and sets, and you may have aspirations to have
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: a particular size, but that just real real world conditions
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: may not allow you to do that. Um. Now, the
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: other thing you can do is create the opening that
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: you can no matter how it's. You know, let's face it,
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: some guys may have a twenty acre woods and they've
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: got one little flat spot in there. Then let's let's
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: say half an acre and it is what it is.
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: You don't have any of their options because it's hillsides
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: and in deep gullies and ravines. So you you you
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: work with what you've got unless you have the ability
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: to be selective based on conditions. And watch how the sun.
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: You're gonna need four hours minimum of direct sunlight a
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: day to grow a good sustainable forage of any kind.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, you can grow plants less than that,
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: but that's what you're going to need to have a
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: good viable food source. That's that's storing energy and providing
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: for your deer. So backing up a step, if you
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: if you work with what you've got and it's not
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: perfectly oriented the way that you want. UM, some other
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: things you can do is trim overhanging branches along the
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: outside edges all the way around to to to maximize
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: your area of impact. It's not a bad thing to
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: have some shade early in the morning and late in
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: the afternoon. The clovers absolutely love that. They like a
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: little bit of break from the direct heat. In July
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: and August here um and as the moisture in the
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: ground starts to dissipate from the direct sun, you'll see
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: your your best forages are growing in that partial shade.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: But just thinking outside the box in general old terms,
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: looking at a UM east and west orientation to get
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: um excuse me, north and south orientations, so that when
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: the sun rises east to west, it's basically hitting the
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: field all at the same time, you know, and you're
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: getting ample sunlight coverage across the entirety as it as
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: it peaks in the sky and goes down the other way.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: So thinking about that in terms of accessibility sunlight, how
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: can I get equipment back there, and then choosing your
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: forages to match the soil and the sun ridge top plannings.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: I've grown clovers in them just because I UM. I
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: think my soil does is it has a lot of
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: loam and it holds a lot of moisture. But as
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: a general rule of thumb, bottom land soils at the
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: base of the hills are going to grow a better
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: clover field for you, and the tops might be areas
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: where you would consider plants that are a little bit
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: more drought tolerant or or a little more tolerant to
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: heat and adverse conditions, and chicker he is one of those.
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: But you can certainly grow your your all winter blends
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: of cereal grains and brassic is on those tops as well, um,
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: soybeans and corn and the timber as possible. Uh, soybeans
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: need well. Depending on dear density, they can be a nightmare,
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: but soybeans will do well in full sun with some
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: fairly dry soils as as well. Like that particular two
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: acre field that I just described. I've grown everything in
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: that from different clovers that a round up bratty alfalfa,
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: the eagle and round the real world soybeans, poured soybeans.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: I've plenty corn in there, Um, you name it, I've
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: had it in there. On the shade issue, this is
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: something I've never really thought too much about, but this
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: is important. I'm imagining, is there is this an issue
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: that's so important that you should think about the shape
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: of your food plat two to maximize sunlight. So by
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: that I mean what you you mentioned that example of
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: orienting your food plot to run north to south so
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: that it gets as much possible sunlight during those times.
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: Would it also be beneficial to have a more of
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: a square shaped food plot in a situation like this
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: that that has more unshaded uh surface area versus a long,
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: skinny food plot that might be in shade for a
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: longer period of time. Do something like that makes sense
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: at all? It does? UM. I am a big fan though,
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: of the irregularity. Even when I did my all my
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: landscape designs, and even when I'm doing a customer's habitat design,
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of curves and irregular shapes. I
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: just think it lends to itself to a more naturally
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: pleasing look. Um. I also like the fact that a
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: deer popping out at one end of the field has
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: to make an effort to see at the other end
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: of the field. That could that could lend well to
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: a hunting strategy, I would say, unless it's a really
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: extreme case, UM, I would just as long as your
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: general directions are oriented north and south, and you're gonna
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: have some coves or little dips and valleys are not valleys,
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: but dips and curves off to the side. The majority
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: of the field is going to do great. You may
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: have some areas that struggle a little bit, as I said,
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: sometimes those fields, those area is that struggle a little
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: bit for direct sunlight early on, we will be the
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: best areas later on in the summer because they're they've
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: they've retained more moisture. So I wouldn't let I wouldn't
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: lose too much sleep over that. Um, there's nothing wrong
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: with square if that's the area you've got to work with,
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: by all mean, and it's just a little bit easier
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: with equipment turning around and running straight lines and all that.
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: But I'm a fan of irregular and odd shapes and
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: pinch points and ins and outs and that kind of thing,
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: just just from the design aspect of it and the
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: hunting the interest that it creates. Yeah, there definitely do
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: seem to be benefits to having slightly more strategic shapes
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: to those food plus, as you mentioned, to encourage travel throughout. Also,
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: I think not only does irregular food plot shape lend
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: itself to some of the movement things you said, but
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: probably gives deer a little bit greater sense of comfort
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: inside as well. Right, so not just looking at a big,
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: wide open space, but they've got edges that that change
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: around them. They've got some sections where they feel like
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: they're a little bit more concealed. I gotta imagine that
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: helps too. That's a great way to say it. Concealment
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: is important to them, and these these woodland into your
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: plots are just that's the whole purpose of them. Um. Well, not,
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: that's one of the biggest benefits I should say of them,
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: is just the fact that overall the thing is enclosed
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: and surrounded by good heavy escape cover, and so just
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: by by natural inclination, they feel good about it. But absolutely,
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: if you can have a back cove to a field
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: that has a little bit of wine, too, if the
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: deer coming out that back float cod feel immediately immediately comfortable.
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: And as they they venture out a little bit farther
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: into the field, they can look on around the bend
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: and see what's going on out there, and uh and
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: and join the party and so to speak. But I
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: think it's really neat to watch. Um, we've killed some
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: mature bucks that will pop out in one part of
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: the field and work a scrape line all the way
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: around the perimeter. They've got to check the whole peripheral
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: and will end up getting a shot because of the
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: fact to the way it was shaped. You know, they've
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: got to see what's what's going on around the bend.
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: That's pretty cool. Um. Something that just popped in my
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: mind is I'm thinking of this specific scenario of this
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: shaded timber food plot. Would it ever makes sense to
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: girdle trees around the outside, around the border so that
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: you are essentially maybe there's a bunch of trees with
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: a really big canopy that are on the outside that
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: would be shading your food plot. For those that aren't familiar,
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: girdling is a way I've never I've actually not done
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: it personally, but I've seen that they had cut around
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: the tree and then apply a herbicide and that kills
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: that tree. Um. Is that a kind of easy way
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: to give you like a shade border or a removing
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: shade or on the border. Is that something you've ever
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: thought about? It is a way to do that, for sure,
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: But I would caution you if it's a marketable tree, um,
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: I would have sold it and gotten it down there
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: already anyway. But if that's if it's just a way
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: that you're you know, the the your approach and you're
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: coming in, you've got the the little spot that you
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: can clear and open in it. And it doesn't involve
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 1: a timp timber harvest. First of all, definitely, Mark, let's
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: let's identify it. If it's a beautiful white oak tree,
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: we're not. We don't want to do that or or
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: any of the others down that list of desirable marketable species.
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: But um, yeah, let's say it's a let's just say
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: it's a hackberry or or or a beach or an
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 1: aspen or something like that that has little to no
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: value for us whatsoever either through um. And I know
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: people are going to argue and say beach trees produce
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: a nut. They absolutely do. But in my in my property, um,
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: there are hundreds and hundreds of thousands of beach and
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 1: they're directly competing because their shade tolerant and my oaks
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: are not. So UM, you just do what you're working with.
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: In my case, I have no issue with removing as
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: many beach as I can, because I never will be
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: able to remove them all, and I would much rather
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: have an oak tree of one sort or a fashion
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: growing there instead. Of a beech tree. But back to
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: the point. The only down I that I could see
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: to what you recommended or mentioned there is it eventually
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: that tree is going to fall. Um, large limbs are
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: going to break off it off over time, and in
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: a big wind is going to push it over some day.
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: So consider that for number one, are you gonna be
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: prepared to deal with it when it falls and have
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: to cut it up and move it out of your plot?
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: But number two, please be careful about hunting around those
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: things too. I've seen ringed or or girdled trees in
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: a windstorm um near by me, and I've climbed down
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 1: just because I felt like, you know, that's certainly not
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: a good scenario there that anything could happen. Yeah, that's
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: a great point. Wouldn't want to be in that scenario, Um, yeah, yeah,
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: that would be UM. I don't think we need to
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: go into the basics of of food plots. Um. We've
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: talked a lot about cover, We've talked a lot about
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: some of the specific or some specific things about how
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: to position food plots and things like that in the timber,
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: But as far as like what to plant, you know,
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: everyone wants to know, like what's your favorite thing to
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: plan or what should I plant my food plot? Or
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: should I do this clover this sybeing or or this
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: or whatever. I don't know if there's necessarily value to
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: saying like here's the best blend to buy, but what
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: I am always interested in and what I think probably
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: the better question is for someone to be thinking about
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: when they have a food plot that they're gonna try
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: planning for the first time or that they want to
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: experiment with. It's probably just it's probably just how do
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: you go about making that decision? Like what are the
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: right questions to ask? Is an individual to get to
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: the right answer as far as what to plant? Um, So,
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: could you walk us through, Tom the things that you
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: are thinking about in your mind when you have an
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: opening and you're going to plan a food plot. What
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: are all the questions you're asking to yourself to come
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: to the final answer of what should be planet here? Sure?
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: The underlying probably first question would be is this going
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: to be a Am I considering this a nutritional feeding plot?
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: Or is this a spot that I want to just
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: have maximum attraction and I want to be able to
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: hunt the edges of this when the wind allows me
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: to do that. They can, they can provide a book. UM,
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: but I guess what I'm getting at is, are you
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: looking at a at an annual situation that you're going
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: to plant in late summer early fall where that plant
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: is just starting to kick in and do maximum growth
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: and providing real palatable, soft, tender, young nutritional plants UM
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: as opposed to planning something either the spring before or
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: even the fall before. That is a perennial plant that
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 1: you're going to have to maintain throughout the year. But
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: it's also going to be providing year round or close
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: to year round as much as possible during the growing
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: season nutrition UM for a for a thriving gear herd.
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: So you can pretty much simply UM carve it into
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: two big groups right off the bat. A lot of
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: guys don't they care about the other. They just want
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: to plant something to hunt and UM you know that
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: that's that's fine. Everybody's got their own objective. As crazy
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: land managers that can't get enough of it are planning
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: um different food sources, both warm and cool season plants
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: and also perennials in some fashion or form and relationship
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: to one another to always have the highest possible nutrition
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: on our farm or on our property to keep our
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: deal here number one, keep them there, but also healthy
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: and growing and maximized. So I would say, uh, equipment
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: is probably a second choice or a second factor if
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: if you're just going to be doing some light maybe
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: even hand tools, it can certainly, um make things a
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: little bit easier to decide. You may not want to
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: spend sixty for an acre bag of of perennial clover
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: um when when um, you know, all you've got to
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: work with as a rake in a in a leaf blower. Um.
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: So if you've got big equipment or or any any
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: type of equipment to get the job done, then then
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: you can maybe think about something a little bit more,
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: you know, full term and more more a perennial. I
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: really do believe that old adage or the old saying
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: mac Duma teaches this and the Dear Stuart programs two
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: of your property should be dedicated sent three to five
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: better of your total acreage and food. And if you
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: can split that three up in the two or three
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: types of food, you're you're even that much farther along
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: and hedging your bets as far as spreading out the
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: value and attraction of your food. So let me just
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: give you a classic example. I've got soybeans ford soybeans
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: in a field in the bottom, and up at the top,
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: i've got a m around up ready alf alpha field
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: that's in one plot. And I also then will go
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: into an inner seed greens and grains into it in
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 1: mid August with the machine. And so now I've got
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: I've got winter wheat and some brassicas that are coming
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: up in that round up ready plot. Because as the
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: alphalfa starts to wane at the end of the growing
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: season and say to the final cold freeze shuts it down,
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: those other plants are now available there. Um. The soybeans,
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: of course, are highly attractive forage through the summer. But
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: then again the deer turned back to him again when
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: the beans dry off and he gets cold if you're
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: not using a forage type soybean when they leave start
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: to yellow off here in the Midwest, usually the last
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: week of August into the first two weeks of September,
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 1: about the time antlers are drying down and velvet starts
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: to peel. You can walk the soybean rows and broadcast
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: greens and grains. When I say that I'm just kind
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: of covering a broad spectrum of plants um into the
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: bean rows and double up that food plot and make
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: it a uh an extended attractive fields. So now you've
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 1: got attractive lush green is growing in and you've got
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 1: those standing soybean pods that they're going to be in
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: there hammering when the weather gets cold. Um. And then
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: another field may be directly just nothing but a disk
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: the soil I've I've lined and fertilize it, and I've
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 1: planted a fall blend of say annual clovers with a
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: particular one or two wheat or oat species that I
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 1: find useful that that work in conjunction with one another. UM.
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 1: And of course White Tail Institute as our sponsored with
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: whitetail properties, So I certainly look look at their broad
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: spectrum available plants and there's there's a plant and a
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: mix or a bland to suit any situation UM that
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: we've talked about other than the crop type greens. Yeah. Yeah,
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: I've had a lot of success with their with their
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: seed as well. I've used the kind of combination that's
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: worked for the couple of small plots that I'm able
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: to plant on a property that I've got permission on.
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: I've been doing, um, a mix of winter greens and
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: then their oats, and I've done strips of at um
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: to allow me to properly time when those things get planted. Um.
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: But but yeah, I love your your approach to having
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: a diversity of food laid out in kind of strategic
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: way so there's something for deer at all times of year.
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 1: And then I gotta believe that by doing that, you're
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: able to pattern deer movement in certain places based off
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: of that most palatable food source. Right absolutely, And you'll
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: see the change. You'll see deer transition from one and
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 1: even in the field when you have a um, just
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: say you have a blend of four or five different
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 1: species out there, you'll see deer selectively constantly moving and
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: they may be selecting this particular clover for this three
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 1: or four days this week, and then as that plant
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: begins to mature and another one's coming on and it's
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: at its highest palatable protein level, they're selecting that. They're
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: amazing creatures, they know exactly what's best for them and
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: they can select that out. So um, yeah, it changes
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 1: through the season, just like the minute that the first,
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: soyping leaves start to yellow, they become dried out. There
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 1: no the attract at the deer and a switch from
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: soybeans and go to a green grain, a green um
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: cereal grain, or a clover or a young brassica plants.
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: So it's they certainly are very selective. And the word
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: is browsers. You know, they browse and they people say grays.
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 1: They browse. Their designed their mouths are designed to clip
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 1: and twigs and shoots and the ends of weeds and
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: everything too. But they they've got that soft palate and
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 1: and that uh, those lower teeth. But they're out there
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: clipping off fresh forage and they know what's good for them,
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 1: so they're purposely selecting that out. Yeah, it's kind of
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 1: amazing that they whatever, know, whatever mechanism it is that
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: allows them to select. They are able to select the
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: very most nutritious thing at just the right time of
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: year for that specific pliant matter um to benefit them most,
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 1: which is kind of amazing. I wish that I had
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 1: that kind of tuti so I knew not to keep
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 1: eating the Wendy's hamburgers all the time. Well, I think
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 1: we're there at an advantage that they can probably tell
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: through taste. That's my that's my my guide. INSTA tells
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 1: me that they're able to taste UM, and it has
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: a certain appeal when it's just at the highest peak
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: where the stuff that tastes good good, it's not always
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: the best that's so good for you. Yeah, we need
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: to figure out some way to flip that around. So
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 1: UM some time, I feel like I we're gonna get
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: going really long here if I'm not careful to rein
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 1: us in because we've we've covered a lot of interesting stuff.
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: I'm really enjoying this, but there's a lot more I
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: want to talk about UM. So I'm gonna force I'm
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 1: gonna force myself to stop so that we don't keep
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 1: you all night. And I'm just ask you one final question,
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: which is you know, your work with white tailed properties
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: and your work with the management advantage and all the
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 1: different things you've done UM has put you in contact.
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 1: I gotta believe with some of the most knowledgeable UM
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: experience inst deer hunters and managers of land and wildlife,
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 1: some of the very best probably the entire country. UM.
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: When you look at that that top tier, those very
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 1: best folks who really know how to manage wildlife and
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 1: habitat and do it to like that next level. What
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 1: what stands out to you about those people, because I
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 1: gotta believe there's a lot of us, people like me
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: and other people who have who have dabbled with it,
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 1: who had a small property maybe or maybe they've got
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: a decent sized chunk and they've been working on for
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: the years, but they're trying to find out how do
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: I take things to the next step? How do I
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: how do I find excellence? How how do you define excellence?
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 1: Or what different traits when you look at the very
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: best of the best out there stand out to you
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: That would be helpful for us to to keep in mind.
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: I think it's an insatiable appetite and desire to always
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: want to learn more. And of course you've got to
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 1: have that absolute, just crazy passion for deer. Just we
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 1: all love hit kil deer and know that that's obviously
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: a common thread. And we all love antlers. We love
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 1: holding big antlers. Um, it's everybody, you know. There there's
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 1: gonna be the criticism where you guys are just about trophies. No, No,
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: I'm not. Um we we we love mature dear, I
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: don't care what it scores. We love that's that's that's
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 1: what drives my daughters and I is selecting that the
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: best oldest mature buck we can grow on our property. Um.
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: But getting back to the the guy that has it, UM.
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: The people that I respect in the industry are are
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 1: just insatiably hungry and wanting to learn more. And I
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 1: think it's it's you've gotta you've gotta give a guy
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 1: do do credit for putting in time and the trenches,
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: you know, the the the older guys. And I guess
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: and I don't look at myself as a pro or
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 1: as as someone to I don't. I'm just I'm humbled
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 1: that you called and asked me to talk today. I'd
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: never look at myself as in comparison or in the
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 1: same ballpark as any of the guys that I'm that
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: I look up to. But I just I just think
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: that there is that there's something to be said about
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 1: somebody that's been around the block many times and has
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: done it and seeing what works and what doesn't and
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: can help guys that are just getting started and way
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 1: shorten their learning curve by Hey, don't do that. I
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 1: did that five years ago, and it was a disaster.
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 1: Here's the better way, you know, And if you can
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: keep guys um from wasting time and wasting money and
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 1: wasting you know, let's face that you do something wrong
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 1: one deer season or one food plot season, you may
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 1: be stuck till a year or twelve months from then
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: to be able to rectify it and do it over again.
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: So always get your hands on man. When I was younger,
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: it was reading, you know, I read Red, Red Red,
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: and every article i I could get my hands on
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 1: quality White Tales magazine and reading from the best and
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 1: obviously doing it and seeing what worked and making a
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 1: mental note not to do that. Or true, it's do
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 1: this differently, keeping keeping good records. Don't be afraid to
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 1: take advice from others. Don't be so um, you know,
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 1: high minded it that there's not a better way or
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 1: somebody that can help you understand a slight twist or
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: turn that could make your results better. But yeah, just
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: be constantly hungry to want to to want to learn more,
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 1: and uh you can just immerse yourself in it. Yeah,
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: that's great, great advice. And uh, I think without a doubt,
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: and I think anyone who has heard this conversation would
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 1: certainly put you in the same category as anyone else
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 1: out there who's who's sharing some really really helpful advice.
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 1: As far as these things I've I've found this really enjoyable,
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 1: So so thank you for that, Tom, and UM for
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 1: folks that want to get in touch with you about
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 1: a property, or who want to learn about what you're doing,
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 1: or who want to see or your film hunts or
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: anything like that. Um, where can people go online or
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: get in touch with you? Sure? Um, well, you can
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: certainly just go to white Tail Properties dot com and
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: click on the state of Indiana and my name will
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 1: be there, Tom James, or you can email me at
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 1: Tom dot James at white Tail property dot com. Um,
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: you can certainly also go if you want to see
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 1: what we've been doing as far as some habitat work,
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: the land Beat series by white Tail Properties. I've been
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 1: fortunate enough to be asked to be involved with the
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: digital program land Beat, which white Tail Properties is is
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 1: excited to be ramping up to many more episodes a year,
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: and we're we're doing and filming exactly the stuff that
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 1: we're talking about today, Mark, which is awesome. You know,
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: all land related and dear habitat management related stuff. Um,
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 1: it'll be short, interesting segments and often several other guys
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 1: on the White Tail staff are are going to be
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 1: involved in that. And then the Management Advantage dot Com
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 1: my buddies, Casey Shutman, Chuck Pikes, Howard O'Neil um, Eric Long.
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 1: There's several guys that's that's in that group that have
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 1: been long involved in that, and we contribute as we
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: can current relative topics to what we're doing on our properties.
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: Were trying to film and show that work being done
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 1: and the results of that being on So folks can
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 1: go back through the archives of that program either on
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 1: the website or on the YouTube channel and search up
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: the topic and you'll see us doing and doing it
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 1: somewhere in the past. And then we we allow times
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 1: like to include hunts that that show the result of
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: that hard work that we've put into it. Excellent. Well,
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 1: i I've I've watched the videos, I've I've seen the
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 1: land beat things you're doing. I've been kind of privy
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: to some of these different things you're up to, and
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 1: everything seems pretty darn excellent. Time. You've been helping a
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 1: lot of folks out and I think you did here
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: today too, So so thank you for thank you very
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: much for saying that. Yeah, and good luck with the
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 1: upcoming spring and summer work on on your properties. Yeah,
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: I've got that big project right around the corner, and
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: I'm more excited about that than anything I have been
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 1: in a very long time. It sounds like it's going
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 1: to be a good one, yes, sir, all right, Tom,
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 1: let's talk again soon. Thanks Mark, And that is going
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: to be a rap. So if you'd like more information
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 1: about anything we've talked about, you know, as Tom mentioned,
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 1: you can find his information over at White Tailed Properties
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 1: dot com. Uh. Please participate in shed rally this coming weekend.
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be a lot of fun. I'll be out
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 1: there looking for antlers. Make sure you wear your Wired
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: Hunt hats and shirts so you can be included in
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 1: the giveaway. And otherwise, I just want to wish you
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 1: guys luck, good luck out there looking for antlers, have
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 1: a great time, and until next time, stay wired. Tot