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CLASSIC: Fanny and Stella: The Cross-Dressing Scandal of Victorian England · Ridiculous History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Fellow ridiculous historians, thank you for tuning in for this
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: week's classic episode. We're going back to Victorian England, I'll
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: just say it, with the benefit of retrospect, a very weird,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: specific and self contradicting time, oh big.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Time, as evidenced in our recent episode on flirting, which.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: Was wasn't that Victorian? Yes, Victorian flirting really really very very.
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  Speaker 2: Very very interesting. Thanks to our research associate Wren for
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: that one. But this takes us back to April of
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: eighteen seventy when a court case OJ Simpson style captivated
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: the people of Victorian England. Fanny and Stella aka Frederick
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Park and Ernest Boulton were arrested after attending a play
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: for their refusal to dress according to their assigned gender.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Let us say, and it caused a moral panic, a.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Court case that rocked the land entire We can't wait
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  Speaker 1: for you to hear this episode if you haven't yet,
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: because you know, these kind of these kinds of moral
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: panics still continue in the modern day, so there's a
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: lot we can learn from this one.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Oh, not to mention all of the crazy stuff going
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: on in Washington right now with you know, trans erasure
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: and just like really horrible revisionist history for a group
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  Speaker 2: of people who very much exists and very much fought
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: for the right to be treated like human beings. And
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  Speaker 2: I think this is a great example of a precedent
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  Speaker 2: setting case.
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  Speaker 3: So let's roll the tape.
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  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. We're opening today's
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: episode with an excerpt from a letter written on November
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  Speaker 1: twenty first, around probably eighteen sixty nine. My dearest Arthur,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: how very kind of you to think of me on
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  Speaker 1: my birthday. I had no idea that you would do,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: so it was very good of you to write, and
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: I am really very grateful for it. I require no
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: remembrances of my sister's husband, as the many kindnesses he
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: has bestowed upon me will make me remember him for
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: many a year, and the birthday present he is so
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: kind as to promise me, will only be one addition
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  Speaker 1: to the heap of little favors. I already treasure up
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  Speaker 1: and we'll cut it there and go to the signature
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  Speaker 1: and says, believe me, your affectionate sister in law, Fanny
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  Speaker 1: Winifred Park and Fanny Winniford Park in this letter is
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  Speaker 1: writing to a fellow named Lord Arthur Clinton.
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  Speaker 2: Ah, that's right, We'll get to the circle back to
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  Speaker 2: this part of the story. Welcome to the Ridiculous History.
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah yeah. Who are you? Okay? And
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: I'm Bet and you are still Ben.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, and that's what they call me in this part
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: of the world. And we are of course joined as
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: always with our super producer, Casey Pegram.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: What do they call you elsewhere in the world? Ben,
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Do you have a knighthood that we don't know about?
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: Are you a sir or a lord?
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it is something you could pronounce.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, cool, not just you specifically, I mean the
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: human tongue. Yeah, got it. It's kind of weird, but
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: you know how it is. You get in situations, you travel, Yeah,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: whichy stuff happens? Yeah, you make deals whatever. Boy, we
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: got off the We got off the rails really quickly
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: on this one. Shaking my head, shaking his head.
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  Speaker 3: Okay.
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  Speaker 1: So the Fanny in question who is writing to Lord
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  Speaker 1: Clinton is someone known as missus Fanny Graham like Graham.
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: Cracker, right, that's right.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: And this she is referring to is someone named miss
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: Stella Bolton or occasionally she will sign things as Stella Clinton, that's.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Right, and they refer to each other constantly as sisters.
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  Speaker 2: But in fact, these two quite theatrical individuals were, in
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: fact their Christian names were Ernest Bolton and William Park,
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  Speaker 2: and they were in fact men who were widely known
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  Speaker 2: in the London theater community as being very successful cross dressers.
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  Speaker 2: And I just want to point out right up front, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: I thought that term was antiquated. I wasn't sure if
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  Speaker 2: that was like the okay thing to say, but I
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  Speaker 2: did look it up on the Gay and Lesbian Alliance
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: Against Defamation website which has a media section, and.
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  Speaker 3: Cross dresser is the preferred term.
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  Speaker 2: It does not imply that either individual is gay, but
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  Speaker 2: it's just specifically referring to someone of a gender that
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  Speaker 2: likes to dress like a member of another gender.
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  Speaker 3: And that was the case with Fanny and Stella Rights.
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  Speaker 1: So Stella were also known as Ernest was born in
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  Speaker 1: eighteen forty seven, the child of a stockbroker, and Park
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  Speaker 1: was born in eighteen forty six, the child of a barrister,
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  Speaker 1: so a legal official.
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  Speaker 3: That's right.
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  Speaker 2: And Stella's mother encouraged him from an early age to
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  Speaker 2: kind of follow that impulse to wear clothing of the
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  Speaker 2: opposite sex, which.
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  Speaker 1: Was kind of common in Victorian era, or less uncommon
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  Speaker 1: than it is now.
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  Speaker 2: That's right, because women for a long time were not
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  Speaker 2: allowed to act in the theater sos. Female parts were
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  Speaker 2: played by men in drag.
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  Speaker 1: Right, and this was an old tradition, And these two
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  Speaker 1: people were talented actors. Bolton in particular was known for
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  Speaker 1: having a wonderful soprano voice, and they both regularly played
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  Speaker 1: female parts in legitimate theaters. And then also at this time,
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  Speaker 1: some theatrical productions would go to country.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: Houses, private homes.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, private event now of like let's say philanthropists of
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  Speaker 2: the arts. They would have a salon at that house
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  Speaker 2: and like host some sort of event where there would
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  Speaker 2: be a play put on and a collection of various
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  Speaker 2: wealthy individuals from the community would go there and check
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  Speaker 2: it out.
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  Speaker 3: Like Lord Ravingham Putin on the Ritz, Lord Pilkington of Ebsworth.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, Lord Webbyto's hand time, Okay, you know of the
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: do what you got to do of the old Northern
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: English hand time dynasty. No, but we are The point
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  Speaker 1: is true, and it's important thing to mention they were
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  Speaker 1: playing these female parts in theatrical productions. But they were
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  Speaker 1: also wearing clothing that Victorian society said should only be
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  Speaker 1: worn by women off stage.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, like in public, like walking around town, and just
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  Speaker 2: just to paint you a picture here, they were not
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  Speaker 2: necessarily professional actors. It was something they liked to do
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  Speaker 2: in their free time, but in their day jobs, their
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  Speaker 2: day lives. Ernest who was twenty two, and Frederick who
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  Speaker 2: was twenty three. Yeah, just a year old, that's right.
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  Speaker 2: Frederick was a law student, and I believe Ernest was
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  Speaker 2: a clerk at a law firm, and I think he
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: ended up working at a bank as well at some point.
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  Speaker 1: And let's examine their lives a little in a little
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  Speaker 1: more detail. So these are famous friends. They refer to
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  Speaker 1: each other as sisters. They have this really strong bond
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: and you know, they're in their early twenties. What a
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  Speaker 1: time to be alive, right, glory days. They also do
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  Speaker 1: not shy away from public attention or controversy. The dresses
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: of the time For anybody who's interested in the history
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: of fashion. We'd also like to recommend our peer podcast
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: Dressed available now wherever you find your favorite shows. But
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  Speaker 1: their clothing that they would wear was incredibly complicated, at
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: least to me, unlike a slacks and a dress shirt guy.
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  Speaker 1: But it's important to note that they also dressed as
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  Speaker 1: what would stereotypically be considered men two and they would
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: stroll back and forth what's called the derby. This is
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: from a great article on Indiana dot edu off the pedestal.
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  Speaker 1: They would attract attention because they would wear a male dress,
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  Speaker 1: but they would also wear makeup, which was normally associated
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  Speaker 1: with women at the time.
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  Speaker 3: That's right.
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  Speaker 2: There were several accounts of folks who knew them around
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  Speaker 2: town who said that they thought that they were two
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  Speaker 2: gay women wearing men's clothing, and there were accounts of
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  Speaker 2: folks who when seeing them wearing women's clothing, thought they
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  Speaker 2: were two gay men wearing women's clothing. So they, like,
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  Speaker 2: the gender identity is extra kind of muddled up here
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  Speaker 2: in a really interesting way. The thing about it is
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  Speaker 2: too theaters, in particular in London were kind of a
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  Speaker 2: hotbed for this sort of underground gay world, right it
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  Speaker 2: was certainly not accepted in the mainstream. These theaters would
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  Speaker 2: be a way for folks in this scene to connect
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  Speaker 2: with one another. Obviously, before you know Facebook and tender
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  Speaker 2: and scruff and things like that.
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  Speaker 3: They had to have a way and also to kind
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  Speaker 3: of keep it secret.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, there was another thing that occurred called a molly house.
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  Speaker 3: Do you hear about this?
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  Speaker 1: No, So, a molly house was a term that was
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  Speaker 1: used in the eighteenth and nineteenth century to describe a
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  Speaker 1: meeting place. This kind of meeting place, particularly in England.
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  Speaker 1: They were generally taverns, bars, essentially coffee houses, or sometimes
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  Speaker 1: private rooms. And the thing about it is, at this
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  Speaker 1: time any kind of same sex activity was considered illegal
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  Speaker 1: and remained a capital offence until the eighteen sixties.
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  Speaker 2: Capital offense meaning the death penalty, and sodomy. The act
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  Speaker 2: of sodomy carried that sentence, as sodomy being a pretty
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  Speaker 2: loaded term. Absolutely, and in this context that word refers
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  Speaker 2: to a particular type of penetrative sex act. Yes, that
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  Speaker 2: is correct. And it's a very important point that we're
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  Speaker 2: making here because this need for secrecy was not some
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  Speaker 2: kind of like oh fun marketing thing.
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  Speaker 1: Oh no, like those fake speakeasy bars that are so
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  Speaker 1: common in the US these days. This was necessary to
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  Speaker 1: protect these people's lives.
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  Speaker 2: Well, and it just goes to show how bold Fanny
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  Speaker 2: and Stella were in kind of flouting this and just
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  Speaker 2: you know, doing their thing and going to these very
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  Speaker 2: public places, wearing these outfits and flirting with very powerful men.
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  Speaker 2: In fact, the letter Ben that you read at the
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  Speaker 2: very top of the show was written to one of
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  Speaker 2: these powerful men who plays a very important part in
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  Speaker 2: this story.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, we should set them up before we dive in.
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  Speaker 1: Good call. Lord Arthur Pelham Clinton was an English aristocrat
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  Speaker 1: born in eighteen forty and he was, you know, krem
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  Speaker 1: de la creme of society at the time.
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  Speaker 3: He went to Eton. He was in the Royal Navy,
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  Speaker 3: He was in the Crimean War. He was in Parliament
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  Speaker 3: for three years.
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  Speaker 1: He was in Parliament, he had a personal connection with
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  Speaker 1: the Prime Minister, who was the godson of William Gladstone's.
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  Speaker 3: This guy had what we call the juice.
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  Speaker 1: He had connects, Yeah, absolutely, And he had a relationship
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  Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy with Stella or Ernest Bolton. And at
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  Speaker 1: the time he was technically considered a naval officer, but
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  Speaker 1: he was retired and he was formerly at one time
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  Speaker 1: he had been a man of great wealth means, but
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  Speaker 1: a few years before eighteen seventy he had to declare
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  Speaker 1: bankruptcy to the tune of like about seventy thousand pounds
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: back then, so a little bit of inflation calculation casey,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know if we have a sound cue for that.
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  Speaker 1: That amounts almost six million pounds today.
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  Speaker 3: So he was in deep.
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  Speaker 1: He had a lot of problems, but he had found
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  Speaker 1: love with Stella or Ernest Bolton.
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  Speaker 2: And we should take this time to mention the fact
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  Speaker 2: that Stella, between Stella and Fanny, was considered the more
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  Speaker 2: feminine looking one, And if you see pictures of them,
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  Speaker 2: of which there is one with Lord Arthur and both
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  Speaker 2: of them, Stella is as much more feminine features and
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  Speaker 2: Fanny doesn't even really look like a female in this picture.
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  Speaker 2: Looks is wearing some kind of a sweater and has
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  Speaker 2: more of a cropped haircut. And it's very interesting mentioned
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  Speaker 2: in several of these articles we've been looking at. One
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  Speaker 2: in particular on The Guardian mentions the fact that when
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: you look at pictures of the two of them and
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  Speaker 2: you see Fanny, you might wonder, by today's standards, how
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  Speaker 2: people may have been confused about the gender of this person.
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  Speaker 1: See Yeah, that's a great article by Catherine Hughes. Fanny
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  Speaker 1: and Stella The Young Men who Shocked Victorian England. It's
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: a review of a book by Neil McKenna, who does
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  Speaker 1: some great research here. I think we've set the scene right.
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  Speaker 1: They're pushing these social boundaries in a way that probably
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: has several of their friends and loved ones saying be careful,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: watch out.
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  Speaker 2: Well we should also just one last thing is that
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  Speaker 2: Stella presented herself as the wife of Lord Love, Lord Clinton,
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Lord Clinton.
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  Speaker 1: And that's yeah, and that's why in the excerpt of
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: the letter we read from Fanny, that's why you hear
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: them saying things, but sister in law, sister in law,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: and they took this relationship very seriously. It wasn't just
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: like some in joke. And when you read these letters,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: it's crazy, especially some of the short the shorter ones, the.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: Kind of dicey ones where like they're kind of like
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: feuding a little bit.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, hey, don't take what Stella said personally.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: She was drinking and yeah.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Or there's one where where Stella's saying to Lord Clinton,
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: how dare you be so rude to me? Yes, you know,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: it's very like, you know, terse kind of lover's spat
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: kind of stuff. So we have set the scene, Ben
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  Speaker 2: and now the year is eighteen sixty nine.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Yes, the year is eighteen sixty nine. You see, it
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: wasn't just civilians taking notice of the adventures of Fanny
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  Speaker 1: and Stella around town. Know, the local law enforcement took
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: notice as well, and they started following the pair, monitoring
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: their movements for like a year. Yeah, an intensive year.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Was there real crime that they could have been addressing. Yeah,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: absolutely did they. London was a very dangerous place in
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: those days, and so they follow him for a year.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: And let's fast forward to a Thursday on April twenty eighth,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: eighteen seventy.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: That's right, the pair is attending a performance at the
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: Strand Theater in London with a mutual friend of theirs, right,
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: Hugh Alexander Mundel.
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  Speaker 2: And as per usual when they're going out of a
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  Speaker 2: night to the theater, they are dressed to the nines,
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: wearing evening frocks with all of the accoutremont gloves, bodices,
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: everything that would go along with it, lace, all of
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: that half thing, Yeah, the whole nine. And they actually
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: have a private box.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: They're the detective who was following them saw the meat
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: to other people. But as they were leaving, as you said,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: no police superintendent and a police sergeant had joined with
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: the detective while the group was watching the show, and
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: they arrested Bolton Park and this other person, Hugh Alexander
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Mundel as they attempted to leave. The others escaped. The
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: three arrested individuals were then subjected to.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: A humiliating battery of examinations.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a perfect way to say it. Yeah, to
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: establish whether they had in fact had that like, had
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: experienced that sexual act right that they were specifically looking for.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: And then they were brought to the magistrate at the
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: Bow Street Magistrates Court the next day and they were
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: not allowed to change, They were not given the option
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: to change into different clothing. They were just kept overnight
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: and then hauled out, which to me seems like another
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: purposeful act of humiliation.
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: Oh absolutely.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: I mean they were forced to stay in the jail
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: set wearing their wigs and everything. And there's a great
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: quote in this review of the Neil McKenna book from
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Catherine Hughes that describes the scene as such, after a
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: night in the cells with wigs slipping and stubble poking
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: through it, was pretty clear to the packed and panting
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: courtroom that the two tarts were actually young men. Very
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: strange way of putting it. I feel like this is
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: old who would write like that? Why would they call
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: them tarts? That seems really offensive.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: It's still a British term that there is, but tart
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: is an archaic term.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: That's fair. Okay, I'll go on. Their names, according to
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: the Charred Sheet, were Ernest Bolton and Frederick Park. To
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: their friends, they were Stella and Fanny, and in the
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: newspapers they now became front page fixtures known as the funny.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: He shee ladies, tremendously offensive. This is when it officially
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: becomes what's called the Bolton and Park scandal. So at
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: this time there is a minor law that they could
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: be considered breaking, which is called personation of a one. Yeah,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: so I think it was a misdemeanor. Yeah, it's like
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: it's a lower charge. It's definitely not a capital offense.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: And what the court system is trying to do in
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: the preceding legal arguments here is they're trying to prove
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: not that these people were quote unquote personating a woman,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: but that they were engaged in unlawful sexual relations.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: I mean it seems to me like they were trying
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: very desperately to make an example of the two in
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: a really horrific way that I believe stretched up to
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: someone of the neighborhood of fourteen hearings, and it became
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: a total media circus because you know, the public wanted
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: to get a look at them, because they had this like,
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: you know, horribly offensive title now that was, you know,
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: took the public's imagination by storm, the funny he shee ladies.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: So it became this total ship show of a.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: Trial, right, and the details of the law under which
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: they would have been prosecuted, perhaps persecuted is a better
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: word here, required the court to have a witness, someone
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: who could say, I know, and I saw this thing
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: happening with these two people that I can conclusively identify.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: The problem was that despite the terrible media atmosphere of
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: the time and the national attention focused on it, the
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: prosecution was unable to find the witness. They were unable
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: to prove that anything happened.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: That's right, But do you know what one of the
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: most galling pieces of evidence to the prosecution was ben
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: It was the fact that Stella, while attending this performance
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: at the Strand Theater, had apparently had the audacity to
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: use the women's laboratory.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: That was one of the huge things they were. I
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: think they were already planning to arrest them, yes that night, absolutely,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: but yeah, that was That was is one of the
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: things that the broadsheets, the newspapers of the time really
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: latched onto.
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: That's right, the penny papers.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: And here is a pretty interesting and telling quote from
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: the way this is all kind of portrayed to the public.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: There is one peculiar trait in the evidence that stands
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: out in bold and audacious relief, and too plainly shows
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: the base and prurient nature which these misguided youths, for
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: they are but little more, must possess. We refer to
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: the entrance of Park into the retiring room, which is
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: set apart for ladies at the Strand Theater, who had
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: the unblushing impudence to apply to the female attendant to
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: fasten up the gathers of his skirt, which he alleged
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: had come unfastened.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: And the character we had mentioned, the husband of Stella,
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: also returns to this story in a tragic way.
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: He is implicated.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but he is unable to testify because he had
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: passed away officially on paper from scarlet fever, but many
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: whispers implying that he had taken his own life.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: That was on June the eighteenth, literally the day after
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: he received his subpoena for the trial. Yeah, so circumstances
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: strongly point to him taking his own life. And then
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: at the time there was speculation, however, that before he
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: had done this, either died of scarlet fever or committed
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: suicide for the blow his reputation would take right from
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: being implicated in this, there's pretty solid speculation that he
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: had used those existing connections to fake his death.
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: Pretty interesting stuff.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Ah, Ben, And not to muddy the waters here, we'll
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: get back to the conclusion of Fanny and Stella story,
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: But there's another bit of implication that after he supposedly
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: either died or disappeared, another woman woman identifying as male
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: in dress, impersonated him and used his name to defraud
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: other wealthy individuals of money.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Mary Jane Fair, No, that's that's her given name,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: and she was claiming to be Lord Arthur Clinton and
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: to double mundy this or to money it further, while,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: while pretending to be Lord Arthur Clinton, Mary would also
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: sometimes dress as a woman, so dressing as Clinton, dressing
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: as a woman, arguing that it was to throw people
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: off the trail.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: Complicated.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, lad, But you know, we kind of already
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: spilled the beans that there's a happy ending to this
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: story in that they were acquitted or that he did
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: not convict.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Yes, they were finally acquitted, and the problem here is that,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, we could talk about how they were acquitted.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: So the prosecution was not able to prove that there
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: was any offense committed under the laws of the time.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: And they also, despite the personation of a woman misdemeanor charge,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: they weren't able to get that to stick either. After
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: the Lord Chief Justice presiding, a guy named Sir Alexander Cockburn,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: summed up the prosecution's case. He said that the prosecution's
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: case was garbage juice and that the police were acting unprofessionally.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: And then the jury took about fifty three minutes to
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: deliberate they found both individuals not guilty. So imagine the
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: emotional roller coaster, right, And.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: It's pretty cool because one account that I read says
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: that when that non guilty verdict was rendered. Everyone in
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: the gallery exclaimed with shouts of bravo. So you know,
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: they were well liked in the community, and they were known,
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: and it seems as though at least the people in
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: the courtroom that were there to support them were kind
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: of in their corner.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And this leads us to a larger social context
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: here too. One thing I really appreciated about Catherine Hughes's
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: article was noting the great changes in society that were
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: occurring at the time. Right in eighteen seventy, the Republican
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: movement was reaching a tipping point, the work of Charles
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Darwin was propagating out through the world. Paris had quote
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: become a commune, and there was this cultural ecosystem in
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: which this trial occurred. This finding had later consequences all
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: on the world of English law, especially when it comes to.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: Gender identity.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: That's right, It's something we haven't mentioned, But at this
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: point they did not make distinctions of gay people. It
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: was more distinctions of acts, right, So no one would
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: have referred to Fanny and Stella as gay. No, that
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: didn't come until much later, several decades later, in fact,
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: with a case involving someone I believe who you know, well,
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: Ben Oscar Wilde.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I am Oscar wild about him, but we have
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: never met. I am a big fan. Yes, legendary writer, poet,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: author of The Picture of Dory and Gray. Oscar Wilde
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: was born in eighteen fifty four, who was alive while
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: these things were happening. Not that much not that much
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: younger than Fanny and Stella. So he was also eventually
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: and to trial because his sexual identity became a problem
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: for the government of the day.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's the thing, Ben, We're talking about some
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: of these changes that maybe were happening in the public consciousness,
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: but as we know, the gears of justice and the
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: legal system grind pretty slowly, so they certainly were not
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: caught up to any of these kind of like awakenings.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's we see a similar thing with cultural change
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: and technological change. The world of legislation takes a while
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: to catch up even at the best of times. Oscar,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: much like Stella, was dressed in what would be considered
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: feminine attire for much of his early life because his
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: mother had expected and wished for a girl.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: Ben, how would you describe the way he dressed later
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: in life when he was a much more known figure.
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: He certainly didn't dress.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: He dressed in men's clothing, but not the typical kind
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: of men's clothes that the gentry would wear.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: He had expensive tastes, you know what I mean. He
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: was going for sophisticated fabrics. He have very particular concerns
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: about dress. He liked what we would call the good life.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: That's right, you know, And unfortunately he had to end
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: up in court attempting to defend his own sexual identity.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: The first case, actually, the first trial, occurs when he
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: sues someone for libel.
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: Right, that's right.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: He sued a gentleman whose names gives me at the moment,
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: who actually left his personal calling card for Wild. I
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: guess I'm imagining a front desk situation at a gentleman's
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: club called the Albmire, and on it he accused him
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: of being a quote sodomite.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Right, and Wild received some mixed advice or conflicting advice
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: from his friends and then from some other people, and
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: they some people said a lot of them said just
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: let it go, don't worry about that guy. And then
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: he decided that he would initiate a private prosecution for libel,
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: since the note amounted to a public accusation that Wild
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: he committed what was considered a crime. So this guy,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: the Marquis Queensberry, is arrested and the charge of criminal
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: libel at the time carries a potential two years in prison.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: But here's the thing. Under the Libel Act of eighteen
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: forty three, Queensberry could have avoided this prison sentence if
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: he demonstrated that what he said was true.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: Wild kind of put himself in the crosshairs there, didn't He.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: He did and against the advice of his friends, And
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: it also exposed his private life to the public, and
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: people started to learn details about the people that he
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: associated with, right, the people that he had romantic relationships with,
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: a team of private detectives started diving into what'd you
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: call it, like the Victorian underground.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, which was which was absolutely th And by
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: the way, at this point we're in early Edwardian times.
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah that's true, that's true.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: And the press and the public is in a state
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: of just almost rabid hysteria by the time the trial
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: opens in eighteen ninety five, in April. And the problem
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: was Wild started to know this wasn't going to go
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: his way, so he dropped the prosecution. Queensberry was found
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: not guilty, and the court said that the accusation was
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: true in substance and in fact. And this, this ruling
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: also left Wild on the financial hook for the legal
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: cost of the person who had insulted him. And then, yeah,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: and it made him go bankrupt.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: And we should say that the reason the Marquess of
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: Queensberry had such a problem with Wild is because he
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: purportedly Wild had had a relationship with his son, Lord Alfred.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: But it wasn't this trial that did Wild in the
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: way that we know he ultimately got done, right, Yeah, exactly.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: There was another trial that occurred. So after Fanny and
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Stella's famous trial, fast forward a few years and we
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: arrive at something called the Criminal Law Amendment Act of
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: eighteen eighty five that said any sort of same sex
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: act of any type was against the law. And Wild,
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: after he had left this, you know, he had left
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: this other trial, right, this libel trial, dropped the prosecution.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: There was a warrant for his arrest put out on
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: the charges of sodomy and gross indecency, and people gave
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: him conflicting advice again, some people said go to Dover
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: and hop on a boat for France.
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: As soon as he curiously.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: And then his mom said no, stay and fight this
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: and Wild was arrested on April sixth, and then the
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: events moved quickly. He was convicted along with Alfred Taylor
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: on May twenty fifth of eighteen ninety five and sentenced
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: to two years hard labor.
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: But what is what is that? Yeah, it's weird.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: You would think it would be something functional like we
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: think of today where they have inmates like pressing delighting
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: stuff for pressing vice. But in those days, it was
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: like these bizarre menial tasks of like unraveling rope for
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: hours and hours at a time.
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: Things like that, just like psychological torture. Really strange. Wow.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: And he was incarcerated from May eighteen ninety five to
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: eighteen ninety seven or eighteenth of May eighteen ninety seven.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: As soon as he was a free man, he sailed
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: immediately for France. He never returned to the UK and
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: they lost one of the greatest literary minds of that generation.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: And I just want to mention that unraveling rope apparently
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: is kind of functional because it's old rope and you
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: unravel it so that you can recycle it. I guess
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: to make oh new rope, okay, And they would also
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: make like calking compound, you know, for like construction.
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: So it's when I first read it, I thought it
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: was just some sort of bizarre, tedious task to make
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: them go insane.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: So it's not like the thing that you hear about
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: in the military where someone makes you dig a hole
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: and then fill it back in right and to get again.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Or listened to like Black Sabbath with headphones on
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: at like insane volume.
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: I thought you were about to say it.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: Or listen to podcasts, Yeah, that can be tough too,
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: but hopefully this one wasn't tough. And I know we
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: went a little farther into the Oscar wild thing. It
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: wasn't really the main topic of this episode, but it's
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: a really important full circle. And he did in fact
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: end up getting incarcerated, and when he was incarcerated, he
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: has this amazing quote that I think is so prescient.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: It's really really important. The idea of the love dare
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: not speak its name, And I think we should maybe
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: end on this, and he refers to this as being
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: in this century misunderstood, so much misunderstood that it may
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: be described as the love that dare not speak its name.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: And on account of it, I'm placed where I am now.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: It is beautiful, it is fine. It is the noblest
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: form of affection. There is nothing unnatural about it. It
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: is intellectual, and it repeatedly exists between an elder and
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: a younger man, when the elder man has intellect and
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: the younger man has all the joy, hope, and glamour
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: of life before him. That it should be. So the
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: world does not understand. The world mocks at it and
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: sometimes puts one in the pillory for it. And what
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: he's doing is basically just describing any kind of same
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, he's talking about this intellectual bond between an
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: older and a younger man, but I think what he's
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: really describing is any kind of same sex attraction or affection.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: Yes, well said, well said little and Oscar wild. This
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: guy's work is just rife with these amazing quotes. You know,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: one of my favorites was always be yourself everyone else
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: has already taken.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: It's pretty good.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: That's pretty good, hey, and that really applies to Fanny
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: and Stella.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely, Hey, we got there.
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: We did.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: So we want to thank you all so much for
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: tuning in. Of course, thanks to our super producer Casey Pegram.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Thanks to Eves Jeffcoat, who helped us with the research
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: for this episode. I thought this one was pretty wonderful,
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: you know. And what happened with Oscar a while that
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: he didn't die in prison, did he?
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: No, he did not die in prison. Good because that
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: would have been a bummer.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Oh I'm I'm laughing, just because he went out like
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: he's just such a cool dude.
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: So he died bedridden in November of nineteen hundred, specifically
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: November thirtieth, and apparently the whole time he was there,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: he was complaining about the way that like the room
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: was decorated, and that's why reputedly his very last words,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: the one that most people who attribute to him is
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: this wallpaper is terrible.
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: One of us will have to go. And then he
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: passed away. I hope that's real.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: I hope it is too. He's got such style, you know.
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: And ask for a Fanny and Stella.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: I couldn't find really anything about what happened to them
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: at the end of their lives.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: Because you've been no, no, you got a little bit murky.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: But you can understand how they would want to retire
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: from public life.
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, but what that's the trial of the century.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: So we can only hope that they were able to
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: find some privacy and some dignity that the press apparently
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: could not afford them at the time.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: Right, and we added in some more stuff. Mid thank you.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: Let's let's get to it right right.
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, of course.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Find us on Instagram, find us on Twitter, find us
• 35:46
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• 35:50
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians, where you can meet your fellow audience members.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: And thanks to Alex Williams for composing our theme, and
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: most importantly to you for tuning in to another episode.
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: Of Ridiculous History.
• 36:06
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• 36:10
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