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101. Labels · Dennis Rox: Confessional Self-Improvement & Psychology

• 0:00
  Mike: On this week's episode.
• 0:01
  Mike: So, mike, why?
• 0:01
  Eldar: do you shy away from calling things for what they are?
• 0:03
  Mike: Well, an example that totally does.
• 0:05
  Mike: I know when he's asking particular questions and I know what he wants to hear, so I like to play that game with him.
• 0:11
  Mike: That's me personally.
• 0:13
  Eldar: In the beginning I was like, okay, where we going with this, and now where we at.
• 0:17
  Eldar: This is home for me.
• 0:19
  Mike: Well, I mean, I know, because I know, I know why I'm doing what I'm doing.
• 0:23
  Eldar: They go by asking to be truthful, you're setting a fucking bar, a standard that you yourself want to function against.
• 0:32
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying?
• 0:33
  Toliy: But I think when doing that you're signing up for, I guess, pain.
• 0:44
  Mike: We just had a little tidbit like an hour ago.
• 0:46
  Mike: Okay, Hit us.
• 0:47
  Mike: He goes oh, you don't like labels.
• 0:50
  Eldar: He doesn't, he doesn't, he doesn't like labels.
• 0:53
  Eldar: No, yeah, no, why not he asked me.
• 0:55
  Mike: He's like, oh what, why'd you ask me?
• 0:56
  Mike: Asking some weird questions?
• 0:59
  Toliy: Maybe because he has PTSD for labels.
• 1:02
  Eldar: No, stop it.
• 1:04
  Toliy: Yeah, maybe because he has PTSD for labels.
• 1:08
  Toliy: I'm not sure.
• 1:09
  Toliy: Can you give me an?
• 1:10
  Eldar: example Like why, what, from what?
• 1:12
  Eldar: Give me an example of the label you're talking about.
• 1:14
  Toliy: Yeah, Maybe before he's labeled something you know, and then he didn't fulfill or it didn't go a particular way, and now he thinks by saying it in that kind, of way.
• 1:26
  Mike: It would like a, but it's not like based on the first half of what you said.
• 1:30
  Mike: It's not a bad thing.
• 1:31
  Mike: If you know that you can't give a word, why would you run your mouth?
• 1:35
  Eldar: That's what you might be scared of, that's right.
• 1:36
  Toliy: No no, but, no, but, like there could be something happening and he does not like calling it that.
• 1:42
  Eldar: Okay.
• 1:43
  Toliy: Like I asked him like hey, mike, are you on a diet before?
• 1:45
  Eldar: Yeah.
• 1:46
  Eldar: I knew he was prior to asking, but it was more of a rhetorical question.
• 1:49
  Eldar: You wanted for him to come clean.
• 1:51
  Eldar: You gave him the opportunity to come clean.
• 1:53
  Toliy: Yeah, yeah, I knew he was on one.
• 1:55
  Eldar: But then he's like no, I'm not Really.
• 1:57
  Eldar: Yeah, why do you think he does this Well?
• 1:59
  Toliy: because, like I don't know, I mean, I think he just has a Like he doesn't like putting like a title on something, or it's like oh, Mike, you know eating meat.
• 2:13
  Toliy: He's like no, I'm just not hungry, Okay.
• 2:16
  Eldar: No, why.
• 2:16
  Toliy: He'll ride that for like a period of time.
• 2:18
  Eldar: He doesn't like to call things for what they are.
• 2:21
  Toliy: At times yeah.
• 2:22
  Eldar: Why, what, why Do you have that same experience as me?
• 2:25
  Eldar: I know what he's talking about.
• 2:27
  Eldar: I know this phenomenon about you.
• 2:29
  Mike: But okay, can you give me an example?
• 2:34
  Eldar: I know exactly where it's coming from.
• 2:35
  Eldar: It's the fear of making commitments that you can't fulfill.
• 2:41
  Eldar: Correct.
• 2:45
  Toliy: Well, it's that.
• 2:46
  Toliy: But also I think that like there's particular labels that he has on his mind and like they mean something to him, Okay, right, do you have to have that significance?
• 2:55
  Eldar: He?
• 2:55
  Toliy: kind of he already has a pre-built of like, okay, what does it mean?
• 2:58
  Toliy: Right, and when you call it that, even though, like, that is what he's doing, for example, he does not want to call it that because he feels that like, like, he doesn't want to like, represent or be with that label in his mind.
• 3:10
  Toliy: He wants to have an out, he will.
• 3:14
  Toliy: That's part of it, yeah, yeah.
• 3:16
  Toliy: But I'm saying, is that like, for example, like someone who, like, if you say like, hey, you're, you're on a diet, right, like in his mind is, maybe he's like, oh, that's someone that, like, is doing something temporary to lose potential weight?
• 3:29
  Toliy: Just to go back to how he was doing, like, how he was eating, right, okay, but like, the reality is like, everyone's on a diet, right, everyone has a particular diet.
• 3:37
  Eldar: Yeah, right, right, like yeah, but he doesn't look at it like that.
• 3:40
  Toliy: No, okay.
• 3:41
  Eldar: Right.
• 3:41
  Toliy: So like he has preconceived notions of what these labels mean and he does not want, like his name, to be associated with those things, and do you think this, this approach, serves him?
• 3:55
  Eldar: Do you think that he thinks it serves him?
• 3:57
  Eldar: Yes, that's why he's doing it.
• 4:00
  Toliy: Yeah, I think that probably keeps him with.
• 4:02
  Toliy: Like it enhances the, the, the secretness of everything.
• 4:07
  Eldar: Do you feel like he then has an upper hand of the person who's acquiring?
• 4:11
  Eldar: Because he's has the in.
• 4:14
  Eldar: You don't have the in, he's not letting you in on it, so he's like hi, you know I'm these dangling this carrot, yeah.
• 4:20
  Toliy: It might.
• 4:21
  Toliy: He might think that it carries like a, like a coolness, like a mistake.
• 4:24
  Toliy: Oh, okay.
• 4:25
  Eldar: Oh, really, that's what you.
• 4:26
  Eldar: Why?
• 4:26
  Eldar: Why you think this is this is being done in the first place, why you think this is why?
• 4:30
  Eldar: Well, it's to be secretive.
• 4:31
  Eldar: It's cool Really.
• 4:33
  Eldar: Yeah, oh my God, are you kidding me?
• 4:35
  Eldar: It's like you're like you're minimizing him, to him, to this yeah.
• 4:38
  Eldar: It's like a puzzle, you know like is he shooting in the right place?
• 4:41
  Eldar: Absolutely not.
• 4:41
  Eldar: That'd be bad If that's what we need to be fucking working on.
• 4:46
  Eldar: Holy shit, it's like that thing that you talked about when, like, if something spicy or whatever, and the way that brings us, oh, this is very spicy, it's like, oh, it's not really spicy, you know what I mean.
• 4:55
  Toliy: Yeah, no, Like come on, it's not that serious.
• 4:57
  Toliy: He wants to be like.
• 4:58
  Eldar: Show that like he's a macho machismo right.
• 5:00
  Toliy: Yeah, though like he can take a lot more than that Like Randy Savage, yeah, yeah.
• 5:03
  Eldar: Okay, that I understood.
• 5:05
  Eldar: I remember you saying this.
• 5:06
  Eldar: Yeah, so he's saying this is not the same.
• 5:08
  Eldar: So, mike, why do you shy away from calling things for what they are?
• 5:10
  Eldar: Well, the example of the diet.
• 5:13
  Mike: In the toying examples?
• 5:14
  Mike: Yeah Well, in the examples.
• 5:16
  Mike: That totally does.
• 5:17
  Mike: I know when he's asking particular questions and I know what he wants to hear, so I like to play that game with him.
• 5:23
  Mike: That's me personally.
• 5:26
  Eldar: Okay.
• 5:26
  Mike: I know he wants me to say that because I know that's where he has the most fun, that's where his he can have the so why don't you give it to him?
• 5:33
  Mike: I am giving this to him.
• 5:35
  Eldar: This is what he wants, actually, oh he wants to for you to be secret he wants me to be secret, because then he could laugh at it.
• 5:40
  Eldar: Is this true?
• 5:40
  Mike: No, no, he enjoys this part 100%.
• 5:43
  Eldar: No, but I think that the way he is is actually.
• 5:45
  Eldar: He wants to know what actually is going on.
• 5:47
  Eldar: Because of his anxiety, he needs to know what's going on so he can keep tabs on everything.
• 5:53
  Mike: Oh yeah.
• 5:54
  Eldar: You're not giving him that right.
• 5:55
  Mike: But I'm not.
• 5:56
  Toliy: Well, no, not in that kind of way To me, I'm not.
• 5:58
  Toliy: Why are you asking them?
• 5:59
  Eldar: What?
• 6:00
  Eldar: Why are you asking them?
• 6:01
  Eldar: What do you mean Like?
• 6:02
  Eldar: Why are you asking in the first place, if not not now?
• 6:04
  Toliy: I already know the answer.
• 6:05
  Toliy: A lot of he's seen you understand.
• 6:07
  Mike: He's asking me a rhetorical question, so why should I give a?
• 6:10
  Eldar: serious answer.
• 6:10
  Eldar: Oh, I can have fun with it.
• 6:11
  Eldar: Okay, that's true.
• 6:14
  Toliy: I'm asking you I know he has a hard time answering.
• 6:17
  Eldar: That's why you're asking it.
• 6:18
  Toliy: That's part of it, yeah.
• 6:20
  Eldar: Oh, okay, so you also play in a game.
• 6:22
  Toliy: Yeah, well, yeah, but sometimes I am curious as to what's going on, but he does not want to talk about it, like he has a hard, like he does not like saying what's going on.
• 6:32
  Mike: Well, because I already conditioned myself to, most of the time, have this funny thing with you where you ask me it's fucking winter and I'm like, oh, I'm going to the pool.
• 6:39
  Mike: That's an ongoing thing that I do because I know that you like to ask these questions.
• 6:45
  Mike: No, that's not enough.
• 6:45
  Toliy: You're already laughing when you're asking the question because you already know the answer is going to be very funny.
• 6:49
  Toliy: No, no, no.
• 6:50
  Toliy: But that's something very specific About what that's like, a very specific thing Like I don't think that it's in that realm of this, oh well, yeah, but when you ask certain questions, like you make a change right, like I can see the change right, but then when you're asked about it, you don't want to say that Like yeah, because I'm still playing that game with you.
• 7:14
  Mike: Okay, yeah, but if you ask me on a serious note, I have no problem saying it.
• 7:19
  Mike: Okay, I?
• 7:19
  Toliy: mean I went lots of times.
• 7:21
  Toliy: The first time I asked on a serious note, but then I see your response and I'm just like all right, yeah, oh okay, you know.
• 7:29
  Eldar: So how does he have to ask you, mike, in order for you to be like oh okay, this is serious and I'm going?
• 7:32
  Mike: to get the answer.
• 7:33
  Mike: I think when he asked me and it's not a rhetorical question, it'll be felt oh oh, because a lot of times he'll make those comments.
• 7:40
  Mike: So I really know he knows what's going on.
• 7:42
  Mike: So I already know the question that's coming is rhetorical, you see.
• 7:46
  Eldar: So you guys have like a little conundrum going on.
• 7:50
  Toliy: Well, yeah, but like I don't do this to you, what do you mean?
• 7:52
  Eldar: Like I don't do what I do to him, to you.
• 7:55
  Toliy: But you asked me what's going on and I'll tell you what's going on.
• 7:57
  Eldar: Yeah, yeah, exactly, so you don't have to do it that way.
• 8:01
  Eldar: Yeah, okay.
• 8:02
  Toliy: So I don't know if this is like a me thing.
• 8:04
  Toliy: First, you know, I think this is my, my like response to something.
• 8:07
  Toliy: Oh, so you're saying that.
• 8:09
  Eldar: yeah, the reason why you come across this way is because of the way he's behaving.
• 8:12
  Toliy: Yeah, this is in the same boat of like you have to like, fish it out of him, like, like, you have to like, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, like he's playing hard to get.
• 8:19
  Eldar: Yes, yes.
• 8:22
  Toliy: It's in the same boat.
• 8:22
  Eldar: Okay, yeah, so you're still leaning towards that.
• 8:25
  Eldar: He wants to be like, yeah, exclusive.
• 8:26
  Eldar: Or like we walk into the restaurant and someone comes behind the counter and shakes his hand, okay, and then he just starts smiling.
• 8:32
  Toliy: Smiling, yeah, I was like yeah, I don't know what to do Smiling, yeah, yeah.
• 8:34
  Toliy: Yeah.
• 8:35
  Eldar: Okay, you know like that so he secretly wants to be famous.
• 8:42
  Toliy: Not secretly.
• 8:43
  Eldar: You know he he does.
• 8:43
  Eldar: Is that what I'm extracting here, or no?
• 8:45
  Eldar: What?
• 8:47
  Toliy: No, I'm saying like secretly, you know what I'm saying.
• 8:48
  Toliy: I think he likes like, like exclusivity.
• 8:50
  Eldar: Exclusivity yeah, okay, yeah.
• 8:53
  Toliy: Or being recognized as like uh, oh, like.
• 8:56
  Eldar: Oh, that's the guy.
• 8:56
  Eldar: Yeah, okay, mike, I don't know.
• 9:00
  Eldar: You have a natural gravitational force that's inside of you that's telling you that.
• 9:04
  Eldar: Uh, you know you want to be like exclusive VIP.
• 9:07
  Mike: No, I don't think so no no.
• 9:09
  Mike: But I could be wrong.
• 9:14
  Eldar: But you can.
• 9:15
  Eldar: You can see yourself enjoying this kind of privilege.
• 9:17
  Mike: No, Of course, oh there, yeah, what's up with?
• 9:21
  Eldar: this guy, you know what?
• 9:23
  Mike: You're asking a funny question, I'm giving you a funny answer.
• 9:25
  Mike: Hmm, okay, yeah, yeah, those like moments of like, uh, when I walk into place and I'm known, yeah, it's definitely a little bit, it's definitely funny.
• 9:33
  Eldar: It's funny because.
• 9:34
  Eldar: I think at that time, is it funny to you when we're not there?
• 9:40
  Toliy: No, no, it only recently maybe became funny because of the awareness that we brought out.
• 9:45
  Toliy: Yeah, and because we're accepting.
• 9:47
  Eldar: Hmm, okay, yeah, okay, makes sense If we took it a different direction.
• 9:55
  Toliy: I don't think it would be as funny.
• 9:56
  Mike: Yeah, I mean totally off.
• 9:58
  Mike: May have to give more examples, but a lot of the times I think it's like he's asking the question, but it's a question that maybe, uh, it's not just like an answer like, oh yeah, I'm on a diet, it's much more complicated than that, right?
• 10:16
  Eldar: It could be I don't know what I'm saying.
• 10:17
  Toliy: I feel like the first time I ask in general, like I actually ask him right.
• 10:22
  Toliy: Okay, then.
• 10:23
  Toliy: I realize what's going on once I hear his first reply and then going forward now.
• 10:27
  Eldar: Now I just kind of so, mike, do you, do you agree with him that the first time when he does ask is actually serious or no?
• 10:33
  Toliy: Like I know, the first time he does not want to say what's going on, because it might be new or it might be fresh, it might not be like established, maybe, but I think he already made a.
• 10:42
  Mike: he's already asking the question.
• 10:43
  Mike: That's rhetorical.
• 10:44
  Mike: He's already made up his decision about what what he's asking.
• 10:46
  Mike: He already knows the answer.
• 10:47
  Mike: No, not, not the first time.
• 10:49
  Toliy: No, how is that possible?
• 10:50
  Toliy: Well, no, no.
• 10:52
  Mike: The first time when you asked me on a diet, like you just randomly thought, I wonder if Mike's on a diet.
• 10:56
  Toliy: Well, no, like, I saw some changes, you saw some changes yeah.
• 10:59
  Mike: You'll recognize something.
• 11:00
  Mike: Yeah, so you already know that something's going on.
• 11:02
  Toliy: Yeah, but I don't know what exactly is going on you know the details.
• 11:06
  Toliy: Yeah, like he's not saying, yeah, well, like you know what, like I've been having issues with this, so this is what I'm trying out, or like doing Like he doesn't say, say, say that.
• 11:15
  Eldar: Mm, hmm, he, right away.
• 11:16
  Eldar: Okay, how does that make you feel what?
• 11:17
  Eldar: How does that make you feel that you get skipped out out of the like?
• 11:20
  Eldar: The inside information.
• 11:25
  Toliy: How does that make me feel, I don't know.
• 11:33
  Toliy: I mean like I'm more understanding, that, like I'm more of like, like I get the second hand information, you know, like I get information.
• 11:46
  Eldar: Even though you want the first hand information.
• 11:47
  Toliy: Yeah, you get the meat like when, like it's unmarinated and like still like, is like, like, like in just a form of meat, and then you put it into the processor.
• 11:58
  Toliy: Yeah, and then it comes out ground with spices to it.
• 12:04
  Toliy: And then, like, I'll find out.
• 12:07
  Eldar: You'll find out.
• 12:07
  Eldar: Okay, you get from the smell.
• 12:08
  Eldar: Why the smell?
• 12:09
  Eldar: The smell hits you.
• 12:10
  Toliy: I start smelling something and I'm like, what about this?
• 12:12
  Toliy: What's?
• 12:13
  Toliy: Cooking.
• 12:13
  Toliy: What's cooking?
• 12:14
  Eldar: What's cooking?
• 12:14
  Eldar: Yes, yeah, yeah.
• 12:15
  Eldar: Well, why do you think that is what?
• 12:18
  Eldar: Why do you think that is so?
• 12:19
  Eldar: That's then okay, that's very specific approach that he asked towards you specifically yes or no?
• 12:25
  Eldar: Because to me, I feel like I already had this inside info, because, based on what we've been speaking about, therefore, like I don't even have to ask the basic question about hey, what are you doing, are you on a diet?
• 12:36
  Eldar: Like I know where this is coming from.
• 12:38
  Eldar: Yeah, so like I don't have to be in your position is to say like, hey, mike, are you on the diet?
• 12:42
  Eldar: Yeah, because I already know where this came from.
• 12:44
  Eldar: Yeah, Like this was pre-planned, pre-meditated.
• 12:47
  Eldar: Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
• 12:48
  Eldar: Yeah, so do you think that you actually get like secondhand things because of the fact that you're not really, I guess, maybe included in the first hand?
• 12:59
  Toliy: information.
• 12:59
  Toliy: I mean, yeah, that would be the only like, like, yeah, that would be more obvious.
• 13:03
  Toliy: Yeah, okay, all right.
• 13:03
  Toliy: Yeah, I mean you wouldn't need to get secondhand information if you got it.
• 13:08
  Eldar: The first time.
• 13:09
  Toliy: Okay, yeah.
• 13:11
  Eldar: Do you prefer getting a second or no?
• 13:14
  Toliy: No, probably not, really.
• 13:17
  Toliy: Well, yeah, I mean, it's obviously like you know, that's interesting.
• 13:21
  Toliy: Yeah, because when you get a secondhand it just becomes like a diluted, it's like whatever.
• 13:25
  Toliy: It's diluted, it's whatever.
• 13:26
  Eldar: Yeah, okay.
• 13:27
  Eldar: Why would somebody want to have a firsthand information and straight from the source, rather than a second piece Like what's the difference?
• 13:35
  Toliy: Well, like, if you get it from the source, then like, there's like a like, there's probably then a premeditated desire for the source to tell you it right?
• 13:45
  Eldar: No, but there's also like more depth and information, more details as to why there is reasoning behind it.
• 13:50
  Toliy: Yeah, there's more details.
• 13:52
  Toliy: And then I think, like a narrative or like once you tell somebody something like that, like a narrative starts getting like built, like you guys create like a story now, yeah, right, and now like it's a continuation, yeah, and now like when those actions get put into place, like the story gets played out, you know, and then it's almost like when you get it the first time, you're part of that story, you know.
• 14:15
  Toliy: Then when you get it the second time, it's like oh, by the way, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
• 14:22
  Toliy: Then you're more of like a you're not part of the story, You're more like watching from the side.
• 14:26
  Eldar: So now the question that you go to you, mike why is totally the by the way guy?
• 14:30
  Eldar: Hey, by the way, I'm on the diet, you know.
• 14:34
  Eldar: Yeah, why is he?
• 14:36
  Mike: the by the way guy.
• 14:36
  Mike: I don't think we have that kind of relationship.
• 14:38
  Mike: You know that, that I can come to him or that we have that.
• 14:43
  Mike: We just don't have that relationship, okay, where, like I come to him, like I come to you, there's a specific reason.
• 14:49
  Mike: Like I come to you, I feel comfortable coming to you.
• 14:51
  Mike: Yeah, you know, I feel comfortable sharing with you and that whole process, that how it works, all the details around it.
• 14:57
  Eldar: Okay.
• 14:58
  Mike: For during after right.
• 15:00
  Eldar: Okay.
• 15:00
  Mike: You know also, we spend a lot of time together, yeah, outside of work.
• 15:05
  Eldar: Yeah.
• 15:06
  Mike: So when we see each other, we talk.
• 15:07
  Mike: We go to the gym, we talk on the way to the gym.
• 15:10
  Mike: On the way back.
• 15:11
  Eldar: We're constantly talking about this.
• 15:12
  Mike: We're constantly talking about this, you know.
• 15:14
  Mike: So when we go on walks with the dogs, we also talk.
• 15:17
  Eldar: Yeah.
• 15:18
  Mike: I only see totally at work most of the time, maybe not only sometimes I don't see him all week.
• 15:22
  Eldar: You guys don't do those.
• 15:23
  Eldar: Ask your page no more.
• 15:24
  Mike: We don't do those, like you know pizza, pizza, pizza pizza.
• 15:27
  Mike: No, we do them very rarely I would go.
• 15:28
  Mike: I think rarely.
• 15:29
  Mike: Okay, you know, we used to maybe do them more, but we don't go out much like that.
• 15:35
  Mike: Like I mean, with Phil, I talk, I think he gets information.
• 15:39
  Mike: When I used to go with him to the city, we used to talk more and I used to share with him things and, like you know, yeah, so that's because we see each other outside of work.
• 15:47
  Mike: So I think part of that, that's one part of it, you know so I'm not sure if the magic sauce is in time spent together.
• 15:55
  Mike: Yeah, no, I mean that's yeah, I agree, I don't.
• 15:58
  Mike: That's why I said that that's one part of it.
• 16:00
  Eldar: Yeah, you know for me.
• 16:02
  Eldar: I know that, through the relationship of the me you've been built over the years, I am genuinely curious about what is going on, and obviously you share enough for me to know what is going on in where your head is at.
• 16:17
  Eldar: Yeah, you know what I'm saying, so I know that the conclusions that you're making this is not something I have to ask, even like oh, you want to die now, Like no, that's like a such a primitive question for me.
• 16:27
  Eldar: Like no, you were supposed to be on the diet based on what we spoke about weeks ago.
• 16:32
  Eldar: You know what I mean.
• 16:32
  Eldar: You supposed to be doing this X, Y and Z because of this, Most of the time it's at least through deeper conversations, the actions you play and just catch up.
• 16:41
  Toliy: You know, what I'm saying.
• 16:42
  Eldar: Versus to a person who you don't share it with, it's like.
• 16:45
  Eldar: It's like almost surprise or news.
• 16:46
  Eldar: The person that you've been sharing with.
• 16:48
  Eldar: It's like, uh duh, like you're supposed to be here.
• 16:52
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying.
• 16:54
  Mike: Yeah.
• 16:56
  Eldar: Okay, so what is it?
• 16:57
  Eldar: Just a very natural phenomena, then, right Based on what's happening.
• 17:05
  Mike: What's the natural phenomenon?
• 17:07
  Eldar: The fact that we spend more time together.
• 17:09
  Eldar: I'm more curious.
• 17:12
  Mike: Well, I don't think it's like you said.
• 17:13
  Mike: I don't think it's just a time.
• 17:15
  Eldar: I know it's not just a time, but it's a natural phenomenon based on what's happening.
• 17:19
  Mike: I think there's more to it, for sure, maybe the trust.
• 17:24
  Eldar: But you see that the person that I asked just now, he said I'd prefer the first source information.
• 17:30
  Eldar: I would prefer to know more stuff in detail.
• 17:33
  Eldar: I don't want to find out the backend things without reasoning as to why this is happening in the first place.
• 17:38
  Eldar: I'd like to know what's going on.
• 17:43
  Toliy: Yeah, I hear it, yeah, but I think that's the case for anybody who would like….
• 17:50
  Toliy: I agree with this 100%.
• 17:53
  Toliy: If they're conscious and thinking about it, then like….
• 17:56
  Toliy: I agree with this 100%.
• 17:58
  Eldar: My question would be from all of this is that where does the burden lay On who?
• 18:08
  Eldar: You know what?
• 18:11
  Eldar: I'm saying I personally think that in relationships that I am at least, I'd like to know what the fuck is going on, just like I think you do too, and I'd like to find out what's actually the intricacies behind the way people move, the way people act and stuff like that, because it's a clearer picture.
• 18:30
  Eldar: When I understand the clearer picture, I can align myself in accordance to that picture.
• 18:34
  Eldar: If I don't, then it's always like what the fuck is happening?
• 18:38
  Eldar: It's a surprise.
• 18:39
  Mike: I don't like surprises in that sense, I think.
• 18:41
  Eldar: in that sense it's like that's anxiety.
• 18:43
  Eldar: I don't like that you know what I mean.
• 18:45
  Eldar: So, to me at least, I am curious enough to find out and ask those types of questions in such a way to really get closer in order to get the right answers.
• 18:59
  Eldar: So then I don't have maybe what he's having, maybe some kind of a.
• 19:04
  Eldar: I don't know if it's a problem, but for now for the lack of a better word, a problem where he doesn't get the source.
• 19:11
  Mike: Yeah, I understand what you're saying.
• 19:14
  Eldar: So the question to me is then who is it on?
• 19:18
  Mike: No, it's probably on me.
• 19:20
  Eldar: Really, I actually didn't think so.
• 19:22
  Eldar: I don't think so.
• 19:23
  Eldar: I think the problem is on him.
• 19:24
  Eldar: Well, why, if you're just being yourself, you're saying, hey, I think because, based on this, based on this, if he's the curious one, right, he's the one who's posing the question.
• 19:38
  Eldar: I think he should be posing questions such a way where he finds out the information that he really wants to find out.
• 19:43
  Eldar: But if he's not interesting enough, he'll just ask general things and you just probably will play kumbaya around the general things.
• 19:49
  Eldar: He'll never be able to get to what he wants and you'll never let out what you actually feel inside and there's never going to be a connection.
• 20:01
  Mike: Yeah, I mean, you know what I'm saying, I hear what you're saying.
• 20:06
  Eldar: What I'm saying is that the reason why you act with me is this way is because I'm making a conscious effort to want to know more.
• 20:11
  Eldar: Yeah, I don't think that's it, though.
• 20:14
  Mike: I don't think that's it.
• 20:15
  Mike: That's it though.
• 20:16
  Eldar: So what is it then?
• 20:17
  Mike: I think there's more stuff Like there's a respect, there's a trust, right, like those things are factors and you don't think so.
• 20:25
  Eldar: They are.
• 20:25
  Eldar: They're built based on track record, sure, but nonetheless, I can do this with somebody else right now.
• 20:32
  Eldar: Anybody, a new person a new person comes in right now, I can get very detailed, in depth with them, asking very specific questions to really find out what is going on.
• 20:43
  Eldar: And that's not on that person, it's on me and I know how to pose those questions.
• 20:47
  Eldar: I get I start paying attention.
• 20:49
  Eldar: Yeah, if I start paying attention, I really listen, because I'm fascinating by the information that I'm given, because I see a lot of inconsistencies, I see a lot of flaws and all this other stuff that I'd like to challenge and ask about.
• 21:02
  Toliy: Yeah, but I feel like I'm good at doing that as well.
• 21:05
  Eldar: I'm not saying you're not good at it.
• 21:06
  Toliy: No, no, I'm just saying that like I feel like I can do it that kind of way and do it well as well.
• 21:12
  Eldar: So I don't feel like I don't have the, but you're not getting what you want, what I'm not getting.
• 21:17
  Eldar: The one who's not getting what you want.
• 21:18
  Eldar: I'm getting what I want.
• 21:19
  Eldar: That's why I think the burden's on you and not on Mike.
• 21:22
  Eldar: Mike's saying that the burden's on him, I don't know why.
• 21:26
  Toliy: Well, no, I mean, I don't think it's.
• 21:27
  Toliy: I'm not getting what I want per se.
• 21:33
  Eldar: You're getting secondhand information.
• 21:34
  Eldar: You said you want to be with the source.
• 21:37
  Toliy: That's the reality of the situation.
• 21:40
  Eldar: But who?
• 21:40
  Eldar: Created the situation that's not by accident is what I'm saying.
• 21:43
  Eldar: It's like the reason why I'm getting the first hand information is because it's not by accident.
• 21:48
  Eldar: Yeah, sure, yeah.
• 21:50
  Eldar: So that's what I'm saying.
• 21:51
  Eldar: Where's the power late?
• 21:53
  Toliy: Who has the power In what scenario?
• 21:57
  Eldar: In the scenario that, look, you're asking Mike a question and you're getting a BS answer.
• 22:01
  Eldar: Okay, and you're like, yeah this is BS.
• 22:03
  Toliy: Yeah, but I know I'm going to get a BS answer.
• 22:05
  Eldar: Okay, but don't you want a real answer?
• 22:08
  Toliy: If Mike wants to give a real answer, if he wants to give BS answers and like so it's up to Mike.
• 22:13
  Toliy: Well, like I don't get necessarily upset about it because it's like no, I'm not talking about being upset or whatever.
• 22:22
  Eldar: I'm saying that if you're not getting what you want, you're saying that it's on him of not giving you what you want.
• 22:28
  Eldar: I'm saying that, no, it's not on you.
• 22:33
  Toliy: Well, I'm saying that I'm open, right and kind of.
• 22:36
  Toliy: Whichever direction it goes, I will play along with that direction.
• 22:40
  Toliy: So if it's a BS direction, then I can joke around about it and just like To me it's like whatever, but then it's like disinterest me.
• 22:50
  Eldar: So you might not be even interested in the first place that interested.
• 22:54
  Toliy: No, no, no, no, no.
• 22:54
  Toliy: I get disinterested when I get BS answers, but in the beginning you're always interested.
• 22:59
  Toliy: Well, I feel like when I'm asking questions like, yeah, I'm definitely curious and I feel like I'm hypersensitive to noticing what's going on, I definitely feel like I have that.
• 23:15
  Eldar: So when I notice different patterns, what's the purpose of being curious and asking questions?
• 23:21
  Eldar: To get the answers, the truth, get the truth right, well, yeah, well, yeah, but.
• 23:29
  Eldar: It's like what's the essence of asking questions and being curious, inquiring about something to try to get the truth right.
• 23:38
  Mike: Yeah, well, I think that's a part of it here, where maybe when I give them these answers, when you ask me a question, I typically give you a genuine answer because the way you comment across to me here, you're asking you genuinely don't want to know, and not because of some preconceived idea or belief that you want to solidify.
• 23:55
  Mike: You generally want to know because you care for me to figure this out.
• 24:00
  Mike: Whatever you know, if I'm sharing a problem with you or something I'm working on, you generally want to help me to resolve it the way I feel, but it depends on what scenario.
• 24:08
  Toliy: Oh yeah, I mean, we're just talking about general right now, yeah, but like If we give specific, examples, yeah, but like if we're at, for example, at a chicken train, right, and then like you're doing something different and like I pointed out, like at that point, if anyone saw that if Elder was there, like he would joke around in a particular way, he wouldn't be in like a genuine like.
• 24:28
  Toliy: Let's have like a Like, a talk about this Sure, and I'm not saying every time.
• 24:32
  Mike: Elder asks genuine questions, Elder also trolls me too.
• 24:35
  Toliy: Yeah, and that's what I'm saying when I come across that kind of way, like I already know what I'm getting and I already know, see, but you're the way.
• 24:44
  Mike: So what you're saying is you're saying is that you already know.
• 24:45
  Mike: So, either way, you, coming towards me, you actually don't want to know what I have to say.
• 24:49
  Mike: You already want to solidify whatever you have preconceived and you feel that, and I know that Well.
• 24:54
  Toliy: No, the first time I yes, no, when I want to like actually know something I definitely don't, I don't do that.
• 25:00
  Toliy: But when I already know, like the answers I get and like how, like yeah, just like the answers I get, then like to me it's just like a have fun with it type of scenario and like I already know what the answers are because I already observed the second hand of it.
• 25:17
  Toliy: So I have a gist of what's going on, right, and I already know that like we're already past that phase of like telling you what's going on to begin with.
• 25:27
  Toliy: So like now it's like it's just a troll.
• 25:30
  Toliy: Yeah, now it's just a troll, but I don't think that like I have scenarios where, like something is very fresh and like I ask about it and I'm like I don't know, like either not understanding or like mean or like or come across in like a bad way, like I don't think like that's the way I would do it.
• 25:51
  Toliy: I definitely think there might have been examples in the past of like I come across in a way that might be like offensive or like or make someone feel a particular type of way that I definitely think like has happened and maybe there might be a build up from that of like feeling a particular way towards To deter them from actually opening up.
• 26:16
  Toliy: Yeah, yeah yeah, that might be there where, like, maybe your track record is like coming across a particular way where, like, you're more non-judgmental in the beginning, right, or more like a very like a particular way before you deliver, like what you need to.
• 26:38
  Toliy: Over time, you know, like I think that's played out for like years across multiple people.
• 26:46
  Eldar: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 26:47
  Toliy: But I don't think anytime I've ever said something in those kinds of things.
• 26:51
  Toliy: Am I not like a genuine, or am I not like speaking what I actually like think, or like?
• 26:56
  Toliy: I'm not describing what's actually happening, but it might be, like an actuality, premature to say those things up until a person like reaches a particular point in that process where it doesn't feel that kind of way.
• 27:12
  Toliy: But I definitely feel like I've had a knack of doing that, like you know, over the years.
• 27:17
  Toliy: Yeah, yeah, you know.
• 27:20
  Mike: Yeah, I mean there's definitely multiple things come to mind here.
• 27:23
  Mike: You know, so first one is what he just said is because he doesn't know the background.
• 27:31
  Mike: Right, he will ask the question but he doesn't know the background, and then he will try to corner me in something without really knowing the full details of what I'm doing and how I'm doing it, right?
• 27:41
  Mike: So I want to volunteer and put myself in a situation where, also you, know it's a trap.
• 27:46
  Mike: I know it's a trap.
• 27:47
  Toliy: That's what I feel like the only reason you to like In a situation where you need to like corner someone is because, like they're not trying to like say something right.
• 27:57
  Eldar: Yeah, let's try to see where the trick, or what is this trick?
• 28:01
  Toliy: When you have a like, for example, you have a cop right.
• 28:03
  Toliy: Oh, what Like a cop right.
• 28:05
  Toliy: For example, or something like asking questions right, yeah, they might ask questions like hey, like, like you know, like like where are you going?
• 28:13
  Toliy: Yeah, like they might ask you a question, right, and you give a particular spotty like a reply, and then they have to play that game where they're like you're going this way, they have to cut you off here, and then you're going that way.
• 28:25
  Eldar: What technique are you mostly using?
• 28:27
  Eldar: The cops, though they're using a they coming off of like out of assumption already they're assuming that, like I think they already have sort of like oh, where are you going?
• 28:36
  Eldar: Oh, so, so why were you doing that?
• 28:38
  Eldar: And where were you when you did this?
• 28:40
  Eldar: And like, oh, didn't you see that this was happening?
• 28:42
  Eldar: When this happening it's almost like the way they ask questions is not necessarily, it's not open ended, it's always it's a closed loop where, sooner or later, they're going to get you.
• 28:53
  Toliy: Yeah, yeah, maybe that example is bad.
• 28:56
  Toliy: Then, like, I think that's what he's talking about.
• 28:59
  Eldar: I think that he's talking about that a lot of times.
• 29:01
  Eldar: Maybe the way you ask questions is that there's a trap at the end of it that sooner or later, right as he's trying to wiggle through this, this questioning and answering thing, that he's going to get caught, and he knows this.
• 29:14
  Mike: Therefore, I have to protect myself.
• 29:15
  Mike: Therefore he protects himself the way he answers.
• 29:18
  Mike: That's 100% part of it.
• 29:19
  Toliy: But what, what, what?
• 29:19
  Toliy: What is there to protect from?
• 29:25
  Mike: Oh well, yeah, it's me.
• 29:25
  Mike: Where does it protect from?
• 29:26
  Mike: Well, yeah, and why?
• 29:27
  Mike: I want to put myself in a situation where you misinterpret what I'm saying because you don't know the details, and then you call me out on something.
• 29:35
  Toliy: Well, like what, what, what, what, like, how would that even look like?
• 29:39
  Toliy: And if that's not the reality of this situation, like then there would be conversation and explanation.
• 29:44
  Toliy: The thing is, you'll pretend this has been going on for a very long time.
• 29:47
  Toliy: No, I know, but I'm saying that like there would be like a conversation with within that right, that like what happens if I already know what's going?
• 29:56
  Toliy: To happen.
• 29:56
  Toliy: Well, what I have it in me Well no, it wouldn't be.
• 29:58
  Toliy: Like, like, oh, like, oh, my, are you on a diet?
• 30:00
  Toliy: And then you say something like wow, you're not eating meat, you're not eating this, like that, and then like the conversation's over.
• 30:06
  Toliy: Yeah, like there's going to be a conversation and if, like, I have a misunderstanding of it, I would like to think that you would participate in the conversation and, like educate me on what I don't know.
• 30:20
  Mike: Right, If I believe that there's a point, yeah.
• 30:26
  Toliy: Oh yeah, I mean yeah.
• 30:31
  Eldar: Yeah, yeah, but we're talking about.
• 30:32
  Eldar: No, but we're talking about.
• 30:34
  Toliy: the question was about like not saying it because it's going to protect you.
• 30:38
  Toliy: And now, like, my question is like protect from what?
• 30:39
  Toliy: What is there Like that?
• 30:42
  Eldar: that's what I'm understanding, Well if someone, well, I could tell you.
• 30:45
  Eldar: If you were without him saying it, I think judgment.
• 30:48
  Toliy: Oh yeah, okay Right.
• 30:50
  Eldar: And, like you said, like the cop right, the cop does questioning in such a way yeah, he's not assuming that you're innocent, he's assuming that you're guilty.
• 30:58
  Eldar: You just have to give him good enough answers to make sure that you know you pass his test Right and that's how he probably feels.
• 31:06
  Eldar: He probably feels that he's a criminal.
• 31:08
  Mike: Yeah, yeah, I feel like I'm being yeah, but if you're not a criminal sometimes he asks me questions and it almost feels, and sometimes when he says certain things, I feel like I get paralyzed because it's like where it's coming from is super aggressive.
• 31:23
  Toliy: Well, like, if you like, can you feel like a criminal without being a criminal Absolutely?
• 31:28
  Mike: Yeah, because absolutely I mean.
• 31:29
  Toliy: I get pulled over, I get pulled over and I'm like, oh shit, no, but I'm saying, like you know what I'm saying.
• 31:34
  Toliy: I'm like I'm in sex with a conversation.
• 31:35
  Toliy: If I'm like, let's say, I'm making an assumption in the conversation, I'm like, wow, mike, you went on this extreme diet, right, like at that point, do you be like no, no, it's actually not.
• 31:47
  Toliy: What I'm trying to do is I'm trying to have a lifestyle change.
• 31:49
  Toliy: For example, right, sure, where, like, I don't feel like a tired or like, or like I could do this, or like I could do that, like that to me would be like a back and forth conversation that that will like unfold, live Right.
• 32:06
  Eldar: And then you've never been in a conversation where the where the details of the conversation, everything's pointed that it's going to be one way, but you still felt a different way, regardless, regardless of the facts.
• 32:21
  Toliy: I mean like, if you can't explain yourself, then then like, yeah, okay.
• 32:25
  Eldar: Let me give you an example of anxiety.
• 32:27
  Eldar: Okay, your anxiety towards my questioning.
• 32:29
  Eldar: Yeah, you could give me all the reasons, we can have reasons, but your mind is still telling you like I'm guilty here.
• 32:35
  Eldar: Yo, this shit is bad and the shit's about to go down.
• 32:39
  Toliy: Well, I think not, after we have a proper conversation about it.
• 32:42
  Eldar: That doesn't mean anything.
• 32:42
  Eldar: It's the same shit, because your anxiety is still speaking for you.
• 32:46
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying?
• 32:48
  Eldar: There's a very big conflict of interest there that your anxiety is still trying to sell you a very specific fucking outcome, even though the reason is like what the fuck?
• 33:01
  Toliy: Yeah, but then that would be my personal problem.
• 33:04
  Eldar: That's what I'm saying.
• 33:04
  Eldar: I'm explaining to you that this can be made up.
• 33:07
  Eldar: You just said hey, like hey, I'm not being bad, a bad cop here, I'm being a good cop here.
• 33:12
  Eldar: Why are you?
• 33:13
  Eldar: Why are you feeling a certain type of way?
• 33:15
  Eldar: Why are you feeling guilty?
• 33:16
  Eldar: Well, he might have anxiety is what I'm saying.
• 33:19
  Toliy: I'm trying to, I'm trying to link it to you and say that people will make shit up in their heads.
• 33:24
  Mike: You've never had that way.
• 33:25
  Mike: No, but this is not a thing, you guys, you guys don't remember the podcast, I can remind you guys the whole thing.
• 33:31
  Eldar: No, I know this.
• 33:31
  Eldar: I'm just giving an example, because he challenged a very specific notion that like, hey, like, if the truth is the truth, why are you getting fucking flustered?
• 33:38
  Mike: Yeah.
• 33:39
  Eldar: I'm saying that the reason why you get flustered is because you all you have your own little fucking these things.
• 33:44
  Mike: Yeah, that I know the fucking anxiety things or whatever that's an example.
• 33:48
  Eldar: Yeah.
• 33:48
  Eldar: Okay.
• 33:49
  Eldar: That alone should give you the thing of like yo, this is not a good argument here.
• 33:54
  Eldar: Well, what's not a good argument?
• 33:57
  Eldar: That, even though you are asking right, very specific, maybe strong questions, that individual should not be feeling any kind of way about answering them.
• 34:06
  Eldar: If he's in the right, you know what I'm saying You're saying, hey, if he, if he is not guilty, why is he feeling a certain type of way?
• 34:16
  Eldar: I'm not.
• 34:16
  Eldar: He could just answer the question properly and everything will be fine.
• 34:19
  Mike: Yeah.
• 34:20
  Eldar: Correct.
• 34:23
  Toliy: This is what you said.
• 34:23
  Toliy: Well, yeah, yeah.
• 34:24
  Eldar: I guess what I'm saying is that regardless of that, he might be feeling certain anxiety, certain PTSD from previous things his own things and all this other stuff where he you might not be applying that pressure, like when the cop pulls you over.
• 34:39
  Eldar: You are fucking clean, you have no drugs in the car, you have nothing in the car, you didn't do anything wrong, you weren't speeding, but you shaking like a leaf.
• 34:46
  Eldar: This is a real phenomenon.
• 34:48
  Eldar: Yeah, you made up shit in your head.
• 34:50
  Eldar: Yeah, you know what I'm saying and that's why you operate out of that.
• 34:54
  Eldar: And in that case I can potentially lie to the cop about certain things because I'm feeling scared.
• 35:00
  Eldar: But the cop's like why are you lying to me?
• 35:02
  Eldar: You shouldn't be scared.
• 35:03
  Eldar: Like no, no, I'm lying because I have all this shit.
• 35:05
  Toliy: Yeah, but how can the cop act in a particular way to counteract your perceptions?
• 35:11
  Eldar: I ultimately think that we should not make any kind of assumptions or lead in such a way where there's no pre-assumptions made at all, so you can wave all this anxiety as best as possible for the person to even go into it.
• 35:25
  Eldar: But it's very hard to do.
• 35:26
  Eldar: It's very hard to do, I know, especially when you lead with reason and I know you because you lead a lot of times with strong reason.
• 35:32
  Eldar: A lot you're strong.
• 35:34
  Eldar: So anybody who's have any PTSD about being guilty from previous days can fucking crumble from your questioning like this.
• 35:44
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying, so you have to be extra sensitive.
• 35:50
  Toliy: Yeah, yeah, that might be an issue.
• 35:54
  Toliy: I have where I'm not very sensitive at times.
• 35:56
  Eldar: Yeah, I think so.
• 35:58
  Eldar: I think you get in trouble with that with your family.
• 36:00
  Eldar: Yeah, you know what I mean, because I'm not saying you're not on the right side of the fucking thing, I'm saying that you're not considering the variables that these people are on that I was still in play, yeah, and I think very strongly with your reason can be premature for them.
• 36:16
  Toliy: Yeah, that I agree with Okay.
• 36:18
  Eldar: Yeah, this is what we're talking about.
• 36:20
  Eldar: That I agree with.
• 36:20
  Eldar: Therefore, some people will hide.
• 36:22
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying, yeah, but therefore you don't get the actual information.
• 36:27
  Eldar: We talked about this many times.
• 36:29
  Toliy: Yeah, no, no 100%.
• 36:31
  Eldar: You know what I mean.
• 36:32
  Toliy: You almost have to.
• 36:32
  Toliy: That I agree with.
• 36:33
  Eldar: For sure, I definitely have that, yeah, and I don't think your intention is necessarily bad because, ultimately, I think that you probably want to empower with your reason and remove some of their ignorance, but they're not up there yet.
• 36:47
  Toliy: Yeah, I just feel that if I do that, I feel a bit disingenuous.
• 37:01
  Eldar: Okay.
• 37:06
  Toliy: And when I premeditated, know that I'm going to apply that and because of that, I almost want the feeling like yo.
• 37:17
  Toliy: If we're having a conversation about something, I feel like I go into it with the feeling of like yo, I have no reason to gain from like I don't know.
• 37:31
  Toliy: Like if someone was feeling the gain like demeaning somebody or like or making someone feel poorly about something, yeah, like.
• 37:45
  Toliy: I definitely don't want to have that intention to like go in there, okay, like, hey, I don't want to help solve this person's problem, I just kind of want to shit on them.
• 37:50
  Toliy: Yeah, like, I feel that like, like that means like a default.
• 37:54
  Toliy: Like this is not what's going on.
• 37:56
  Eldar: I agree.
• 37:56
  Eldar: I think you underestimate how fragile the ego is.
• 38:01
  Toliy: Yeah, yeah, I do it like in the moment, yeah, Like I feel like yo like, like, if we're discussing this to begin with, like it should be understood that like you see, that's an assumption, yeah.
• 38:12
  Toliy: Yeah, like that's the way I feel internally, is that like, if we're like talking about something right and like we have like a like, like some history together, then I feel like, yeah, well, the way I feel internally is that like, hey, like, like it, like I'm not going to give you a screen, like, hey, what we're about to say, right yeah.
• 38:36
  Eldar: You're not meant to make you feel better.
• 38:37
  Eldar: Yeah, like I don't feel like this is a safe space.
• 38:40
  Toliy: Yeah, like, I feel like I don't need to give that kind of disclaimer and I don't like to like act in that kind of way to give it, which definitely makes me not sensitive to a particular feelings at a particular time.
• 38:53
  Toliy: 100%, yeah Right.
• 38:54
  Toliy: But I feel almost like in the moment of when we're discussing this, it almost like like the way I be, because I know how I feel about the scenario.
• 39:04
  Toliy: Maybe I assume that the other person understands that hey, like what.
• 39:09
  Toliy: I'm trying to do here is either like help you or try to figure something out.
• 39:16
  Toliy: Or like, if I don't have a direct answer and I can't explain something, maybe just keep asking questions.
• 39:21
  Toliy: So maybe you could figure it out.
• 39:24
  Eldar: Or like maybe.
• 39:25
  Toliy: I'll figure it out eventually.
• 39:27
  Toliy: Yeah Right, but like idea of like progress is is like the to me like the default thing.
• 39:34
  Toliy: Like if we're like I'm not trying to have a conversation around something, like if that's not what we're trying to do, like, like, like I, I, I don't see why we would have to do that.
• 39:44
  Toliy: We would have.
• 39:44
  Toliy: Why.
• 39:45
  Toliy: Why would two individuals have like a serious conversation about some something if the goal in that conversation with the two individuals is not to get either like progress or some level of clarity or like some level of further understanding that was not there prior to that conversation?
• 40:04
  Toliy: Like I almost feel like they're like if that wasn't the default thing, then we're not going to be talking regardless to begin with.
• 40:11
  Eldar: Okay, that's a very good question.
• 40:13
  Eldar: You know it's a very good question that you posed and all the things that you just said are positive things in your mind.
• 40:26
  Toliy: Yeah, right, only in my mind.
• 40:28
  Eldar: Progress only in your mind.
• 40:29
  Eldar: Yeah, where the assumption that, hey, like we're about to do this, if we're about to do this, yo, we're going to be progressing Right.
• 40:35
  Eldar: Anything less of that very specific outcome for him, it's like what's the point.
• 40:41
  Toliy: However, well, well, no, no, no, no.
• 40:43
  Toliy: So I don't know if we're going to get progress.
• 40:45
  Eldar: I don't know.
• 40:46
  Toliy: I'm saying no but I'm saying that like no but you have a.
• 40:48
  Eldar: You have a bar of what progress means.
• 40:51
  Toliy: No, no, no, no, no, I'm not like.
• 40:52
  Toliy: If someone, like if someone is asking me something or telling me, I definitely don't assume that I definitely have an answer for it or I definitely know exactly how to find it right now.
• 41:00
  Toliy: But I can guarantee you that I will give my best effort in either like either if I do know the answer, trying to trying to deliver it to you in a way that you understand it, or if I don't know it I feel like I'm very good at questioning, to try to to figure it out, yeah, but like to me, to me it's like I'm like I have no intention of getting into an actual serious conversation to begin with, if that's not what we're doing, because then it's like, what are we doing?
• 41:28
  Toliy: We're either being like a, like a disingenuine, or we're talking about, like a very surface level thing that like doesn't matter to begin with.
• 41:39
  Eldar: So that's the thing.
• 41:40
  Eldar: A lot of times, I think you underestimate that a certain surface as quote unquote, surface level things that you define as actually are very deep for some people and that they can learn from those surface level things, despite of what you think about them.
• 41:55
  Toliy: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think that there are certain levels things that you could talk about, but you could talk about them in like a truthful, detailed way.
• 42:03
  Eldar: Right.
• 42:04
  Toliy: But like, I feel that, like it might actually ask me something, or if you asked me something, or if I come to one of you guys to ask you something or talk about something, I feel that like the like, no matter how I act or feel, the understanding is that like, hey, we're trying to do something here and we're trying to either like, like, do something that involves some kind of progress and sometimes that kind of progress is not even like a change, it could be just an understanding, it could be just further thinking of more questions to ask that like you didn't ask already or didn't think about all ready.
• 42:44
  Toliy: But like, all of those things to me equate to like some level of like going forward because of not, we're definitely not having a conversation to go backwards and we're definitely not trying to have a conversation to stay still.
• 42:58
  Eldar: I guess, yeah, your perception of going forward and going backwards is probably very set to where you feel like what progress is.
• 43:07
  Toliy: No, but, but, but.
• 43:07
  Toliy: Like I said, I don't think any change needs to happen.
• 43:10
  Toliy: I'm not defining that only as no, I actually believe that.
• 43:13
  Eldar: I actually believe that your perception of progress is very different than mine, where I can see progress in, in hurt and pain, and more hard lessons where you like.
• 43:26
  Eldar: No, no, no, those are mistakes.
• 43:28
  Eldar: You should stay away from that.
• 43:30
  Toliy: No, no, no, that's not what I'm talking about, though.
• 43:32
  Toliy: Okay, I'm not talking about that like something like you need to like like change or you need to avoid a lesson or pain.
• 43:42
  Toliy: I'm more talking about that like the intention of the conversation with another individual, like, like.
• 43:48
  Toliy: I feel that, like both people who are having it like they want, like they're having a conversation to begin with because they want something out of it, and that something is either probably to like what be understood, to potentially like get some kind of direction right, or maybe to come up with more questions, to think about something more deeply.
• 44:09
  Toliy: Be supported, right, yeah, be supported, right, like all those things.
• 44:17
  Toliy: But to me, all of those things are some forms of progress, even if it's a lesson that needs to be learned, even if it's something that needs, needs to happen.
• 44:28
  Eldar: But don't just hold a strong opinions around those, like don't you favor those things?
• 44:32
  Eldar: Do you favor what those things?
• 44:34
  Toliy: the progress More than anything Do I favor.
• 44:39
  Eldar: So what do you mean by favor Like like you, emphasizing like hey, like you know the reason why we have this conversation in the first place, you should know right?
• 44:47
  Eldar: You should keep this in your back pocket that the reason why we having in such a way is that we're going towards the same place.
• 44:53
  Eldar: This is going to be progress, we're going to learn something, and all this other stuff.
• 44:56
  Eldar: You have that assumption already built in that right.
• 45:00
  Toliy: I feel that the people that are interested in having like a more serious conversation with me about something, or if I'm having trying to have a serious conversation with someone else, I feel like those two things are like I don't know if it's right to call them that, but I feel like that's like the truth of the situation is that, like you're engaging with somebody to talk to them about something, right, and, like I said, the progress is not need to be changed.
• 45:31
  Toliy: The progress is not need to be a shift.
• 45:32
  Toliy: It just needs to be like it could be saying that person to go learn a particular lesson, that it's still progress, like what you're saying to me is still like a form of progress, right, it is yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 45:52
  Toliy: Like like that's how I view it and I feel like that's what everybody wants, I think almost from having like a conversation, but they're all different kinds of scenarios and all different types of situations, but they still, for individuals, on all different types of levels, they still equate to some level of progress, I think.
• 46:16
  Eldar: Mike, what do you think about all this?
• 46:22
  Mike: Yeah, I don't know.
• 46:23
  Mike: I mean, I'm not sure.
• 46:25
  Mike: Maybe what you guys are saying is true, but I think there's more.
• 46:27
  Mike: The more to it is that I'm not sure if we actually have a genuine, like a good friendship.
• 46:31
  Mike: And what does that look like between me and Toly, you know?
• 46:34
  Mike: Is there like a mutual respect?
• 46:36
  Mike: Is there trust, right, all these things?
• 46:38
  Eldar: Well, now you're talking about a different topic completely.
• 46:40
  Mike: Well, I think it's part of this topic.
• 46:42
  Eldar: It's part of the topic.
• 46:42
  Eldar: Yeah, because in order to feel like.
• 46:44
  Eldar: What does a good friendship look like?
• 46:46
  Mike: Oh yeah, and I think I'm not sure if we have that, you know, where it's a mutual kind of thing.
• 46:53
  Mike: We definitely we definitely had like a lot of times we bumped our heads, stuff like that, you know.
• 47:02
  Mike: But I think overall that's probably because we didn't have a mutual trust, a mutual respect, I guess all the other things that you know are part of a good friendship.
• 47:11
  Mike: Or if they're not there, why would I confide something that's probably sensitive to me to a person who I can't feel like I'm trusting, that has my best interests and that I genuinely fully believe that, once you know the best for you, yeah, and I know he doesn't wish me poorly, obviously, like he doesn't want me to fail.
• 47:34
  Eldar: But can it not only just be in the technique or the approach that you're not okay with that?
• 47:41
  Eldar: I just have a different approach.
• 47:42
  Eldar: He has a different approach.
• 47:44
  Mike: Philip has a different approach.
• 47:44
  Mike: I think it's part of it.
• 47:46
  Eldar: Your dad has a different approach.
• 47:47
  Mike: Yeah, I think it's part of it, but I don't think that's just it.
• 47:52
  Mike: I don't think it's just the approach.
• 47:53
  Mike: I trust you right and I think that's a huge thing.
• 48:01
  Eldar: See, I'm not sure what that means, though that's the thing.
• 48:03
  Eldar: Like you trust me up to a point, I think that goes for everybody.
• 48:09
  Mike: Totally trust me, up to a point.
• 48:11
  Eldar: My wife trusts me up to a point.
• 48:13
  Eldar: My mom trusts me up to a point.
• 48:14
  Eldar: And then you got to put it on yourself.
• 48:18
  Mike: Sure, that's for sure.
• 48:19
  Mike: You know what.
• 48:19
  Eldar: I'm saying so you can say like okay, eldar, I trust you 80%, I trust totally 60%.
• 48:25
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying.
• 48:26
  Mike: Oh yeah, for sure, that's still.
• 48:28
  Mike: That's something though.
• 48:30
  Eldar: Yeah, but that's what I'm saying it's a very sticky word trust.
• 48:35
  Eldar: I got a problem with it.
• 48:36
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying, you know.
• 48:40
  Eldar: I feel, like.
• 48:43
  Toliy: we have probably all proven over the years that we do not trust each other 100%.
• 48:48
  Mike: Yeah, not 100%.
• 48:50
  Toliy: Yeah, I think that we've all proven otherwise.
• 48:54
  Eldar: And I don't think that is because of who we are.
• 48:56
  Eldar: I think it's a human condition almost.
• 48:59
  Toliy: Yeah, of course it's a human condition.
• 49:00
  Toliy: It's meant for good and for bad.
• 49:02
  Toliy: No, I actually think it's meant for very good, Probably.
• 49:06
  Eldar: Yeah, it's meant for very good.
• 49:07
  Eldar: It's a fucking filter and a radar for spotting bullshit, for making sure for you know being skeptical and stuff like that, to ensure our own empowerment Our own empowerment at the end of the day.
• 49:22
  Eldar: Don't fucking take my word for it.
• 49:24
  Eldar: Reason through this fucking shit and then know that this is 100% true, Not because I fucking said it.
• 49:31
  Toliy: Yeah, but people prove that all the time and like that.
• 49:35
  Toliy: It's like people can't just take people's words for things and just like yeah, move on with their life.
• 49:40
  Eldar: But they want to show that they do.
• 49:42
  Mike: They take 100% for everybody, but overall, most of the time, generally, you want to have that, so that's what I'm saying, like sure you trust me, but you're saying you don't trust him.
• 49:54
  Eldar: But what does that mean?
• 49:54
  Eldar: Because you know, because, like I am striving to get to a point where people do trust me right, and just like, I think, totally striving towards, with his family, with his friends and everybody else like me, to get to a point where they do trust him, yes or no.
• 50:13
  Eldar: I think you're doing the same thing, where your word, the way you speak it, the way you say it, and all this other stuff is perceived in the most truest form of what you actually feel and intend it to be.
• 50:25
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying.
• 50:27
  Eldar: We can't bet on it yet.
• 50:29
  Eldar: You know, what I mean People clearly don't trust us right.
• 50:33
  Eldar: When Tolia advises his sister on certain things and stuff like that, he would love for her to take his word for it and hopes that she does, just like I hope my wife takes my word for it.
• 50:44
  Eldar: But the truth of the matter is everybody has their own path.
• 50:46
  Eldar: They all have their own level of development.
• 50:50
  Mike: You know what I'm saying, for sure.
• 50:53
  Eldar: So when you say that, hey, I trust you, to me it's like where, sure, just because you open up.
• 51:01
  Eldar: So what?
• 51:01
  Eldar: That's your level of understanding, right, my understanding is that you got to push it to work.
• 51:07
  Eldar: Sure, because that's my currency.
• 51:08
  Eldar: I want to see fucking progress.
• 51:11
  Eldar: I want to see you fucking really flourish.
• 51:13
  Eldar: And that's when I'm like, oh shit, you know what I mean.
• 51:15
  Eldar: You've empowered yourself, you did it, yeah for sure.
• 51:19
  Eldar: So I think that word is very subjective to each individual until it is defined properly.
• 51:25
  Eldar: So what does it even mean when you say friendship?
• 51:28
  Eldar: When you say trust.
• 51:32
  Mike: Probably trust that if I come to the person, they generally have my best interest at heart.
• 51:37
  Eldar: Okay, so check this out.
• 51:38
  Mike: Especially when I'm in a vulnerable situation.
• 51:39
  Eldar: So check this out.
• 51:40
  Eldar: Okay, I have the ability to be sensitive of that which you're feeling in that moment.
• 51:46
  Eldar: Sure, okay, yeah, therefore, I can cuddle you a little bit better.
• 51:51
  Eldar: However, I'm going to tell you this right now, I wholeheartedly believe this, that if you come with the same stuff with totally, I'm going to tell you right now he might have a better advice than me, and I wholeheartedly believe this.
• 52:02
  Eldar: You know why?
• 52:03
  Eldar: Because there won't be no cuddling.
• 52:05
  Eldar: You understand.
• 52:07
  Eldar: It'll be straight cut to the point, reason and very sharp, which I will get to in the future.
• 52:15
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying.
• 52:16
  Eldar: It's because I care about your feelings, maybe a little bit more.
• 52:19
  Eldar: He don't care.
• 52:19
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying.
• 52:21
  Eldar: That's how I genuinely feel, and we've talked about this many times.
• 52:24
  Eldar: Yeah, no, you guys have I got to pad the fall?
• 52:26
  Eldar: He don't pad the fall, he don't put nothing on the floor.
• 52:29
  Eldar: You're going to hit your face very hard.
• 52:31
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying?
• 52:33
  Eldar: Sure.
• 52:33
  Eldar: So what are we talking about here?
• 52:37
  Mike: But I'm not sure At the time, right, I know.
• 52:42
  Mike: At the time, the person might not be ready to receive that information that he's giving.
• 52:46
  Mike: Agreed.
• 52:46
  Mike: Especially if the report is not there to know that that person cares about you and is genuinely wants to help you.
• 52:53
  Mike: Agreed.
• 52:54
  Mike: Because, this is obviously we've known each other for a very long time.
• 52:57
  Mike: Sure, and the things that I mean.
• 52:59
  Mike: I just think we just recently I'm trying to become a better person and do things a certain way, so I'm learning about all this stuff, but how do you feel actually got to a place where we had an actual good friendship?
• 53:14
  Eldar: Sure, but how do you feel about the fact that my job or the way I come across?
• 53:19
  Eldar: It's almost to trick your ego into realizing you later what I'm trying to make you realize?
• 53:24
  Mike: I know We've talked about this.
• 53:26
  Mike: Yeah, I know what you're doing, I know, but the thing is at the time it's still okay At the time when, initially when I was very sensitive when I was very.
• 53:34
  Mike: You know I would get very upset.
• 53:37
  Mike: Yes, I needed that.
• 53:38
  Mike: Now I may become more resilient.
• 53:40
  Eldar: Yeah, and you ask me, you'll be more straightforward.
• 53:42
  Eldar: And now I'm punching you a little bit more into your gut.
• 53:44
  Eldar: Yeah, I am feeling it Okay good, good, you know, I'm trying to do my best to kind of almost emulate what Watoly would do.
• 53:52
  Eldar: Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
• 53:53
  Eldar: I know I'm going to be a little bit more straightforward.
• 53:55
  Eldar: No, I agree, because you asked for it.
• 53:57
  Mike: No, and I mean I do because I know it's something that's weakened me.
• 54:00
  Mike: Yeah, you know I need to become more tough or more like thicker skin.
• 54:03
  Mike: I agree, you know, but I wasn't at that point where I was ready.
• 54:08
  Mike: You know, maybe those times that I did come approach him and he's gave me that and I was like why, would I come in for a pain?
• 54:16
  Eldar: Yeah.
• 54:16
  Mike: I'm trying to figure something out.
• 54:18
  Mike: Yeah, I don't need to get hit over the head, Like you know.
• 54:20
  Mike: In that sense my own ego is telling me I can't get over the head.
• 54:23
  Eldar: You know, not right now.
• 54:24
  Mike: Yeah, you know, I'm trying to tell one thing You're trying to hit me with, like get tougher, yeah, like I need to pace myself here, you know, but that could be wrong too, you know.
• 54:35
  Eldar: Like no, no, no, I'm glad you understand that?
• 54:37
  Mike: How do?
• 54:37
  Mike: You feel about that?
• 54:42
  Toliy: I don't know how to say it In like any other way Like, yeah, like, like, like, I feel like, but, but, but but again, I'm not saying that I don't take any kind of like, like, like responsibilities, like for it, because I definitely could have consciously acted in like, like a different way.
• 55:03
  Toliy: But I almost feel that, like, through the through the years, it probably, I mean it, probably, I mean it probably like, I mean based on what you're saying now, right, it probably almost like a men's out, it feels like it.
• 55:19
  Toliy: Probably we're not meant to be good friends Throughout, like, like the, like the years, based on how I am and based on how Mike is, yeah, you could say that, right, yeah, like that, but I'm not, you know.
• 55:38
  Toliy: But it's not to say that I'm not like a responsible for that Cause.
• 55:46
  Toliy: If I know, like yeah, my internal reasoning is like, okay, if I know that, for example, like, if you want to say that Mike is sensitive or was, for example, yeah, very sensitive and sensitive, and then, like you, know less sensitive right, yeah, like, like if he was progress with that and our friendship started when he was very sensitive and let's say, like I'm not going to be a buddy, that is very sensitive, right, and like naturally there's going to be a budding of the heads.
• 56:13
  Toliy: Like yeah, right, um.
• 56:16
  Toliy: But yeah, the question I asked myself internally is that, like, if I know this information, how do I act?
• 56:22
  Toliy: You know, um, I'll go forward.
• 56:25
  Toliy: Yeah, well, well, in general, and it's very hard for me because my natural form is not.
• 56:31
  Toliy: I know it is not to be sensitive.
• 56:34
  Toliy: I know, right, yeah, do you want?
• 56:37
  Eldar: to be a buddy Before you did say you do want to be more sensitive.
• 56:39
  Toliy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 56:40
  Toliy: At times, yeah, yeah, yeah I feel like my natural form and probably how I act towards others is probably like um, the opposite of like my own problems and how I've been.
• 56:54
  Eldar: Oh, okay, Like what you're being requiring.
• 56:56
  Toliy: Yeah, yeah, okay, right, why Because why?
• 57:01
  Eldar: Um, you're fed up with yourself.
• 57:02
  Toliy: Well, yeah, I'm not giving that to somebody else.
• 57:06
  Eldar: It's like okay, okay okay it's a, it's a, it's a.
• 57:09
  Toliy: Nick.
• 57:09
  Eldar: Yeah, yeah, probably.
• 57:11
  Eldar: Yeah, you understand that.
• 57:12
  Mike: I understood it.
• 57:13
  Eldar: Yeah, yeah, that's.
• 57:15
  Eldar: That's a very good point.
• 57:16
  Eldar: Yeah, Like I don't want to put that on someone else, I feel like almost and I feel like I'm naturally like, like, completely get, like, get away from me If I'm going to be communicating to another and I just don't want to you know, I don't want to talk about it to everybody else no, no, I think that our no I think actually it's fucking he's his intentions are very good in that sense.
• 57:41
  Toliy: And I understand my own Problem Problem.
• 57:45
  Eldar: Yeah.
• 57:45
  Toliy: And I don't want to, and I don't want others to to he actually doesn't want to project that problem upon other people.
• 57:50
  Toliy: Yeah.
• 57:50
  Eldar: Therefore, he's going to give advice in such a way as like yo, you don't want to be there.
• 57:55
  Eldar: I know what the fuck that feels like.
• 57:57
  Toliy: Yeah, yeah inside of me like anything like that involves.
• 58:05
  Toliy: That stuff is like like I feel like I can't act that kind of way because I know inside of me went in the moment where probably like that's being done to me.
• 58:20
  Eldar: Yeah.
• 58:21
  Toliy: I don't know that, but I feel like, because I know what I have internally, I almost have inside information as to, like, what's going on with that person.
• 58:29
  Toliy: Wow, I don't know what it is to be there and I cannot give advice with that, you know, because it's not like.
• 58:38
  Toliy: I feel like it's not right and it doesn't help you Hold on.
• 58:43
  Toliy: Yeah, I almost feel that way.
• 58:44
  Toliy: You're a fucking sinner, bro.
• 58:47
  Eldar: That's a crazy fucking dualist life that you're living.
• 58:51
  Eldar: Yeah, that's a while.
• 58:54
  Mike: But how are you taking this authority upon yourself to say that your way is the right way?
• 58:58
  Mike: If like, why are you convinced?
• 59:01
  Mike: Or are you convinced that because he has personal experience and is he?
• 59:05
  Mike: Has he resolved the little things that he wanted to know?
• 59:08
  Eldar: He does not, does not know how to apply that to himself.
• 59:12
  Mike: Therefore he's trying to apply something to himself.
• 59:14
  Mike: No, but maybe that's because that what he's trying to apply, and so it doesn't actually work.
• 59:20
  Eldar: Well, he would have to speak on that.
• 59:22
  Mike: Well, if he's saying take it hard on yourself, be yourself up, you know, don't be fucking, be a pussy, and then you're not doing that right, then it's clear that it's not working.
• 59:34
  Mike: Yeah.
• 59:36
  Eldar: Why would you, why would you, advise that which you can't take for yourself to somebody else?
• 59:40
  Mike: Yeah, and how you know that it's right?
• 59:41
  Mike: Even know that's the right thing, no, but how do you know that it's right if it's not?
• 59:44
  Toliy: even working for you, yeah Well, I mean, it's not about like who it works for and who doesn't, it's like it's just the truth of what the reality is.
• 59:57
  Toliy: But, like, I feel like in those scenarios, like I know the future before the future happens, like in that, because I know then what the, what the anxiety is like, I know what the internal battle is like.
• 1:00:09
  Toliy: Yeah, right, yeah, and I'm okay, I guess, at times, with being the bad person to somebody else, because, like it like, they'll like it like, because I feel like it's the truth, though they're going to, if they continue like on the path, they're going to come around and their perceptions are going to a yeah, to a, to a change.
• 1:00:35
  Eldar: And I'm not looking for that pain is going to be worse.
• 1:00:38
  Eldar: Therefore, you rather do some pain now with the approach.
• 1:00:42
  Mike: Yeah, but how does that work, though?
• 1:00:43
  Mike: If you hit somebody over the head and saying you know, my hit you, it's going to hurt, and then you're going to change, but the person doesn't change, what's the point of the hitting?
• 1:00:51
  Eldar: The point is, the hitting is that it's preventative care.
• 1:00:55
  Mike: But if it's not working, what are you preventing?
• 1:00:57
  Eldar: You're preventing worse outcomes, which he understands where they are.
• 1:01:00
  Eldar: How does he know?
• 1:01:01
  Mike: that it's going to be worse.
• 1:01:02
  Mike: He knows, but he's one person though.
• 1:01:05
  Mike: So what he knows, personal experience, right, but his personal experience is different than mine personal experience or somebody else's know.
• 1:01:13
  Eldar: It is but there's a lot of the same, but yeah, but the feelings and all the other stuff that's the result of it is the same.
• 1:01:20
  Eldar: Okay, do we do?
• 1:01:22
  Eldar: Do you not agree that we share the same fucking like makeup?
• 1:01:27
  Mike: Yeah, we do.
• 1:01:27
  Mike: We do but we don't suffer from the same sicknesses.
• 1:01:29
  Eldar: We don't, we don't, but there's potentials.
• 1:01:32
  Eldar: Fucking wire rings that can happen.
• 1:01:35
  Mike: There's a potential potential.
• 1:01:36
  Eldar: He's trying to prevent it by using, like yo, logic and reason.
• 1:01:39
  Eldar: Stop this nonsense, because I know where this fucking headed.
• 1:01:42
  Eldar: If you fucking fuck this one up.
• 1:01:46
  Mike: You know what I'm saying.
• 1:01:47
  Mike: I know what you're saying.
• 1:01:48
  Mike: I know what he's saying about.
• 1:01:49
  Mike: But how do you know that that way is the right way versus the soft, the long road?
• 1:01:56
  Mike: Like you, giving me the long road.
• 1:01:58
  Eldar: The reason why, I know, is because the deduction of his logic is correct.
• 1:02:01
  Eldar: It makes sense.
• 1:02:03
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying.
• 1:02:06
  Eldar: It just it makes sense in theory, but it's no no, no, no.
• 1:02:09
  Mike: It makes sense in objective and objective minus you take the human not on his subject, correct, you take the human out.
• 1:02:15
  Mike: Correct, you take the human out for a non-human.
• 1:02:19
  Mike: No, no, he's giving it to the human.
• 1:02:21
  Mike: But a human cannot just say, okay, I'm a robot, I'm not going to feel anything.
• 1:02:25
  Eldar: Some people can take that advice.
• 1:02:27
  Toliy: No, but it's not even that.
• 1:02:28
  Toliy: It's not even like my when, when, when it comes to my approach in general, I'm not going to be like yo kick you in the nuts and leave Like I don't feel, like I act that kind of way.
• 1:02:37
  Toliy: Yeah, where it's like, if I do say something like that, I'm willing to stay and I'm willing to be part of the journey, yeah, part of the process and I'm okay with with at times I'm not, I'm, I'm, I'm not okay.
• 1:02:49
  Toliy: But I would say, at a majority of the time I'm okay with being the bad person and like I'm not looking for someone to come around and give like credit to me or like, or like some, some like that.
• 1:02:59
  Toliy: I just feel that like in those moments, if I stand with the truth, it might be a little bit lonely for me and like in that moment, but I feel like I'm giving the person the opportunity to get the right information, and I mean definitely not at all times.
• 1:03:18
  Toliy: Is it going to be the right information, that it's going to like make something click at the moment?
• 1:03:23
  Toliy: Yeah, but but I guarantee you they'll leave with questions, you know, and then they'll go to their own process not even knowing that, like those questions started from that conversation or not?
• 1:03:34
  Toliy: Yeah, but I know that in the future, if they're like a thinking person, they're going to go ask questions to somebody else, to you, to themselves, maybe to me again at some point, like there's going to be some kind of like process.
• 1:03:48
  Toliy: Yeah, like I feel like after I do that I know there's no one doing, if you continue, there is no right.
• 1:03:55
  Toliy: And because I feel like that's like, like the the truth, even if it's bad in the moment, I still feel like it's right because when that happens, a journey starts.
• 1:04:06
  Toliy: You know, at all different places for all different types of people, but something is going to happen If you continue to participate in like logic and like a learning and like a like a development.
• 1:04:21
  Eldar: And you want to sacrifice yourself for it.
• 1:04:24
  Toliy: In, like, in, in, in in the moment, as far as like I mean sacrifice myself.
• 1:04:29
  Eldar: And the reason why I say that, like the reason why I say that, is because you don't get what you want in the moment.
• 1:04:33
  Eldar: Right, the person might not be receptive.
• 1:04:38
  Eldar: The person might say, hey, you're a jerk.
• 1:04:41
  Toliy: Yeah, but I feel like if you get the opportunity, so you become the martyr if you well, no, I feel like, if you become, if you get the opportunity to speak the truth on something right, that to me is like a great thing, and the bonus is when it connects.
• 1:04:57
  Eldar: So me you have the same approach with with with with a little bit sharper and shorter.
• 1:05:01
  Eldar: Yeah, this is mine is a little bit longer.
• 1:05:03
  Eldar: That's all the this is the difference.
• 1:05:04
  Toliy: Yeah, the, the, the results.
• 1:05:06
  Toliy: Yeah, definitely the big prize and the big like bonuses, when the person then can connect with you on that, on the thing, the thing.
• 1:05:14
  Mike: The approach is.
• 1:05:15
  Mike: The is the key here.
• 1:05:16
  Mike: You guys definitely get to the same place.
• 1:05:19
  Mike: But if you're trying to give a fucking me a fucking spoon to dig a fucking the shovel a whole.
• 1:05:25
  Eldar: Yeah.
• 1:05:26
  Mike: I'm not going to be able to dig that hole for you, bro, you know.
• 1:05:29
  Mike: Yeah, I could definitely put yourself in.
• 1:05:30
  Mike: No, you can, I can't, I can't, yeah.
• 1:05:33
  Eldar: I definitely can.
• 1:05:36
  Mike: Can I dig a 10 foot hole with this?
• 1:05:38
  Mike: One yeah.
• 1:05:40
  Eldar: Yeah.
• 1:05:40
  Eldar: So what's the problem?
• 1:05:42
  Eldar: Like why you have a problem.
• 1:05:44
  Mike: Well, I have a problem.
• 1:05:45
  Eldar: Yeah.
• 1:05:46
  Mike: You're trying to bring out the older problems today.
• 1:05:49
  Eldar: I'm not, this is, I think.
• 1:05:50
  Eldar: Uh, it went from fucking I don't know what to friendship, to trust, to this, to communication through effectiveness.
• 1:05:57
  Mike: I think there's a lot of like.
• 1:05:59
  Mike: As we're talking, I think back a lot of instances where I felt, you know, years ago.
• 1:06:05
  Eldar: Yeah.
• 1:06:06
  Mike: You know not like 10, but a couple of years ago that I felt like I shared stuff with him, we've bonded on something, and then he kind of like flipped it on me and I felt like I was made out to be like the retard.
• 1:06:16
  Mike: So that also part of me not sharing.
• 1:06:19
  Eldar: How do you feel about that?
• 1:06:20
  Eldar: The fact that he actually says that yo you dropped me, bro.
• 1:06:23
  Eldar: You say you're supposed to journey this shit with me, but you fucking dropped me.
• 1:06:26
  Mike: No, not even that, and you used it against me.
• 1:06:28
  Mike: Not even like on a serious level, but like, even like, just like on a hanging out thing.
• 1:06:32
  Mike: You would some instances where I felt like I got flipped on, like he's making me out to be the criminal, where he's in there with the fucking, with me playing the robbery, you know.
• 1:06:41
  Mike: And then he makes me out to bad guys.
• 1:06:43
  Mike: So like I'm saying something.
• 1:06:45
  Toliy: Yeah, but that.
• 1:06:46
  Toliy: But those times like uh, I the way like I understand what, what, you're saying Give an example of what the fuck is going on here.
• 1:06:53
  Eldar: It's like some inside info shit.
• 1:06:55
  Toliy: I feel like, yeah, I feel like those became very funny like scenarios, but maybe there is like a like a history of PTSD.
• 1:07:02
  Mike: Up until just a very recently, I did not know how to differentiate the attacks on me.
• 1:07:06
  Mike: I was not able to take anything.
• 1:07:08
  Mike: So those moments, you know, and we never actually had a chance to like, actually give a friendship a real shot.
• 1:07:15
  Eldar: Yeah.
• 1:07:16
  Mike: You know where I was like more of a person like you know, coming to become like a normal person, like more fit, more full, more whole, you know, versus working out of like yo, I'm not good enough.
• 1:07:26
  Mike: This nigga's telling me you're right, you're not good enough Like you know you know like and that, so that's like.
• 1:07:31
  Mike: That also stuck Like obviously I'm not like upset with him about it every single day, I don't think about it, but like those things that are still like kind of in the process.
• 1:07:39
  Mike: We never actually had a chance to like develop a friendship and set certain boundaries, certain respect, all those things, they never were put in place.
• 1:07:46
  Eldar: Yeah, you know, that's interesting.
• 1:07:49
  Mike: So that's another part of listen.
• 1:07:51
  Eldar: What we're getting at is this place right Tolly.
• 1:07:55
  Eldar: Notoriously for a very long time and I think you need to hear this, maybe you didn't hear this before but notoriously always said to me yo tell me how it is, don't sugarcoat it, hit me over the head with the hammer.
• 1:08:08
  Eldar: He always asked for this and that's why I think that maybe my approach with him is it is different than yours.
• 1:08:17
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying.
• 1:08:18
  Eldar: He specifically says yo, like I don't want to fucking.
• 1:08:21
  Eldar: I don't want, I want to get hit in the head.
• 1:08:23
  Eldar: I'd rather fucking experience the pain and I am, maybe if there was a third person who was watching this, but you know there's very means totally.
• 1:08:31
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying.
• 1:08:32
  Eldar: But I know why I'm doing this is because he's asking for it a very specific way.
• 1:08:36
  Eldar: This is the way he learns, this is the way he understands.
• 1:08:38
  Eldar: So I'm stricter and I'm stronger where with you, it's a different approach.
• 1:08:42
  Eldar: I know how sensitive you are.
• 1:08:44
  Eldar: Therefore, I'll go very slowly, very carefully, whatever.
• 1:08:48
  Eldar: Whatever you know, you know it takes a long time to turn a page and all the other stuff.
• 1:08:53
  Eldar: You know what I mean.
• 1:08:53
  Eldar: Yeah, and not to say that his progress doesn't take time.
• 1:08:56
  Eldar: His progress definitely takes time.
• 1:08:57
  Eldar: What I'm saying is that the reason why I act one way to him and the reason why I act towards you is because it was, it was asked to be, this way, of course, you know what I'm saying If we can get to a point where you guys both understand each other and the way you want to be handled, and if it matches your personalities or the way you do.
• 1:09:18
  Eldar: I'm fluid, I can be a fucking jerk off and I can be very nice and very patient and very soft.
• 1:09:24
  Eldar: You know what I mean.
• 1:09:25
  Eldar: That's my chameleon fucking side.
• 1:09:27
  Eldar: If you guys can do that for one another, I think you can develop a very good friendship.
• 1:09:32
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying.
• 1:09:34
  Eldar: And you can use each other by understanding your strengths and your weaknesses.
• 1:09:37
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying.
• 1:09:40
  Eldar: Maybe a lot of times this is not spoken out the way it is spoken out.
• 1:09:43
  Eldar: And now you understand my role, ftoli, and my role to you.
• 1:09:47
  Eldar: And that's where the secret sauce is, why it's working, why elder has the glue or whatever the fuck you guys call it.
• 1:09:53
  Eldar: You know what I mean.
• 1:09:53
  Eldar: Yeah, and if you find that between one another, you guys can both benefit from that.
• 1:10:01
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying Understanding what you want from one another, because I personally think I always thought this and I speak this for everybody.
• 1:10:10
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying, regardless of how a piece of shit you are and the things that you've done that if you tap into this type of thing, there's a lot of goodness in it, and if you can do it and if you can extract it, there's good in that, and both of you guys can benefit from each other's fucking strong qualities.
• 1:10:28
  Eldar: Sure, because I do, I benefit from you and I benefit from Toli, but it's just a different way.
• 1:10:33
  Mike: Just like you guys benefit from me.
• 1:10:34
  Mike: Yeah, I agree.
• 1:10:35
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying.
• 1:10:36
  Mike: But I think it would require to, yeah, to probably be honest with each other and get to know each other.
• 1:10:46
  Eldar: It has to be a conscious effort.
• 1:10:47
  Eldar: You know what I mean, what needs to be done and how it needs to be done.
• 1:10:51
  Eldar: I'm not sure the jurors still out whether or not you will find that balance to what you actually need from one another to be able to be.
• 1:10:58
  Eldar: Then to be, you can be completely open and he can get what he wants, and then he can also apply the pressure that you need in order for you to keep benefiting yourself and vice versa.
• 1:11:08
  Eldar: You know what I mean, but, yeah, if you get there, I think it could be very good.
• 1:11:15
  Eldar: You know what I mean and I think you will, but it's just going to take time.
• 1:11:19
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying.
• 1:11:21
  Eldar: What do you think?
• 1:11:23
  Toliy: Yeah, I mean, I feel like the hard who probably to jump around.
• 1:11:27
  Toliy: I mean, I don't know, maybe it's more for Mike or less for me, but I feel like there's an element of PTSD and there's an element of built up things and removing those things.
• 1:11:46
  Toliy: That's what I view as the hardest part.
• 1:11:53
  Toliy: That is a very good fucking topic.
• 1:11:55
  Eldar: That's a very good topic to be able to how to remove certain PTSD, Because I also know that in my approach and like what I say in the present conscious moment, everybody wants it, everybody.
• 1:12:11
  Eldar: Fine, but you put a very present conscious moment.
• 1:12:14
  Eldar: I also know that at the same time.
• 1:12:16
  Toliy: nobody wants it, Nobody wants it?
• 1:12:18
  Eldar: Yeah, because why?
• 1:12:19
  Eldar: Yeah, because nobody has the ability to be in the present conscious moment.
• 1:12:22
  Eldar: Yeah, but I do think, that, like the thing is, is the question whether or not you as individuals, when by yourself, together, can enter that present conscious moment together.
• 1:12:34
  Eldar: And if you can, then you can truly benefit from what you have to say, because I think you have a lot to say and I think when you on point, you fucking on point.
• 1:12:44
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying.
• 1:12:46
  Mike: I mean, I say it all the time to you, brother, he's very smart, yeah, in his fucking logic, yeah.
• 1:12:50
  Eldar: But then you're like wait.
• 1:12:51
  Eldar: What the fuck?
• 1:12:52
  Eldar: Where the fuck is he?
• 1:12:53
  Mike: though when is he Exactly?
• 1:12:55
  Eldar: And I keep trying to explain to you that phenomenon.
• 1:12:57
  Mike: Yeah.
• 1:12:58
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying, because he has a different battle that he's dealing with.
• 1:13:01
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying, that you need to be patient with him.
• 1:13:03
  Eldar: Sure, you know what I'm saying, but you have a hard time with that.
• 1:13:06
  Eldar: Obviously You're like, well, this doesn't make sense.
• 1:13:09
  Eldar: But yeah, you're right, that's the bridge, that gap.
• 1:13:16
  Eldar: It's not easy, consciously Right.
• 1:13:23
  Toliy: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:13:24
  Toliy: It's not easy.
• 1:13:24
  Toliy: What will it take?
• 1:13:26
  Toliy: Yeah?
• 1:13:27
  Eldar: I mean awareness.
• 1:13:29
  Toliy: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:13:30
  Toliy: I just feel that, like, like that, like in the times where I feel like I'm acting that way and I'm giving it to people like as it is.
• 1:13:40
  Eldar: As it is.
• 1:13:41
  Toliy: Like I said, like I don't have an expectation that, like in the moment, it's going to be understood and gotten, but I feel like but you get down on yourself about that, you say.
• 1:13:54
  Eldar: you said to me plenty of times just saying like, hey, I wished it were fucking further.
• 1:13:57
  Mike: Yeah, that's the thing I think.
• 1:14:00
  Mike: If you would like to generally help people, but your approach is not, you're going to be down on yourself, no, no, I think it's going to help, kind of effective.
• 1:14:09
  Toliy: It's going to be guaranteed 100% effective and it is 100% effective.
• 1:14:14
  Toliy: It just depends on what, what path it goes on.
• 1:14:19
  Eldar: Well, that's the thing that's a thing that's a receptive of the other individual.
• 1:14:22
  Eldar: So what we're saying is that we first need to be able to be receptive, and that includes right, like Mike say probably trust, in whatever forms that is.
• 1:14:32
  Toliy: Well, well, well, well, yes, no, I was saying more about like before, I was saying that, like I know that, like by me doing that it's, I think it creates like a particular, like a question that starts to get larger and larger, like within that person.
• 1:14:50
  Mike: How do you know this?
• 1:14:51
  Mike: You saying that every single door that was open was never closed?
• 1:14:53
  Mike: People don't shut.
• 1:14:55
  Mike: Shut the philosophy door and disappear.
• 1:14:57
  Toliy: No, it's a whole.
• 1:14:58
  Eldar: That's why my also think you can't.
• 1:15:01
  Toliy: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:15:03
  Eldar: No, for the moment.
• 1:15:03
  Eldar: Mike, you can, but you can't.
• 1:15:04
  Eldar: I see the monster you saw in the closet.
• 1:15:06
  Toliy: Yeah, and like I said, it like the progress definitely requires, like a person that wants it for themselves.
• 1:15:13
  Toliy: I'm not talking about a person that, like wants to have a relationship with, with me or anything, but a person that, like, is continuing progress on themselves.
• 1:15:22
  Toliy: Mm, hmm, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:15:27
  Toliy: That will continue whether it involves me or not, but it's still going to happen.
• 1:15:33
  Toliy: It's just a matter of whether I'm going to be part of that or not.
• 1:15:36
  Toliy: It definitely plays out better when I'm like a part of it, but I know, no matter what, there's going to be a question that, like could start out right away, like not even thought about, but it's going to eventually grow and there's going to be a memory, like some kind of connection that happens, where the person will question things or start to go on a particular path because, like, something was open that they have not thought about.
• 1:16:06
  Eldar: What he's saying is that he's planting some subconscious seeds that will sprout down the line, and I agree with him 100% Sure yeah.
• 1:16:14
  Eldar: There will be connectivity there.
• 1:16:16
  Eldar: You know what I mean.
• 1:16:17
  Toliy: Yeah, just then the question comes down to whether, like I, am part of that process or not, but I still feel that, no matter what, it's 100% effective because that process will still happen.
• 1:16:28
  Eldar: Just like I feel like this why the fuck this topic come about in the first place?
• 1:16:32
  Eldar: The way it did is a very interesting topic.
• 1:16:35
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying.
• 1:16:36
  Eldar: The communication and your friendship and the way you have seen, perceived each other it just didn't happen.
• 1:16:41
  Eldar: We fucking talked about all these things before together and we talked about these things together and now they all come together to find out.
• 1:16:49
  Toliy: Or that, or maybe just Mike and Tully went off.
• 1:16:53
  Eldar: Oh my God, that's crazy.
• 1:16:59
  Eldar: How that perception is Depends on who you fucking see it with right Through which lens.
• 1:17:04
  Eldar: But yeah, it's not by coincidence.
• 1:17:06
  Eldar: In the beginning I was like, okay, where are we going with this?
• 1:17:11
  Eldar: And now where are we at?
• 1:17:13
  Eldar: Bro, this is home for me, yeah, no.
• 1:17:19
  Mike: Well, I mean, I know, because I know why I'm doing what I'm doing.
• 1:17:23
  Eldar: There you go, and I think that totally has the same thing.
• 1:17:26
  Mike: Yeah.
• 1:17:27
  Eldar: I think it's supposed to feel this way.
• 1:17:29
  Eldar: I think that's the great phenomenon about what we've been doing, so listen.
• 1:17:36
  Toliy: Yeah, I would definitely love a world where, like when, people engage with me, like they have the idea, and I feel like people can do that, probably when it doesn't involve them.
• 1:17:47
  Toliy: When I'm talking to somebody else about it, right Like when, like that time, for example, when Mike was hearing me talk to like Andre Yusupov, right Like here, I feel like in that moment, for example, he understands exactly what I'm doing, what I'm saying, why I'm saying it and the way I'm doing it and I'm talking to you in that moment.
• 1:18:14
  Toliy: That's not the way that the person felt that I was talking to 100%, because it involved them.
• 1:18:20
  Toliy: Yeah, right.
• 1:18:21
  Toliy: So I think the perception is different.
• 1:18:23
  Toliy: When somebody else is hearing it me talking to somebody else about it, they're viewing the other person's like.
• 1:18:28
  Toliy: You know, this person's an idiot, agreed, right.
• 1:18:30
  Toliy: But then when it involves the individual, the ego.
• 1:18:33
  Toliy: Yes, the ego.
• 1:18:34
  Toliy: I know that it's different.
• 1:18:36
  Toliy: I know it is Right, yeah, right, but I'm trying to think what I think?
• 1:18:43
  Eldar: that you just don't know the power of your punch.
• 1:18:45
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying.
• 1:18:49
  Eldar: That's all that is.
• 1:18:52
  Toliy: But, but in what like?
• 1:18:54
  Eldar: like the fact that you throw this punch of reason.
• 1:18:57
  Eldar: You said I had a good Africa.
• 1:18:59
  Eldar: You do, yeah, you knock people out.
• 1:19:00
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying?
• 1:19:02
  Eldar: Yeah, well, you need to pepper them a little bit and to knock out, but you knocked them out.
• 1:19:08
  Toliy: I remember now Okay.
• 1:19:09
  Eldar: The Eagles can't take it.
• 1:19:10
  Toliy: Yeah, I was saying that, um, um, that I wish there was a world.
• 1:19:15
  Toliy: Of course, I think I told you this before.
• 1:19:18
  Toliy: But I wish, when, like, we started talking about something, that it is understood as to what the person's intention is.
• 1:19:24
  Toliy: But I also know that, when it involves yourself, because I understand, when it involves me as well, that it is not understood always in that kind of way no, no Right.
• 1:19:34
  Toliy: But I also know, as me, the person.
• 1:19:37
  Mike: How does that person know?
• 1:19:39
  Eldar: Well, imagine, just imagine what it would take for you to be able to know the fucking intentions of the individual that's trying to fucking behead you and say you know what, your head got too big, I'm going to cut your head off.
• 1:19:52
  Eldar: Like, yeah, I got to cut my head off, I got too big.
• 1:19:56
  Eldar: Like it's just impossible, it's just impossible to be able to be there.
• 1:20:00
  Eldar: That's what he's looking for.
• 1:20:03
  Toliy: And I told that's impossible.
• 1:20:05
  Toliy: I feel like this when any person, any of us, have an issue with something, we're wrestling with something, right, and in the moment, anyone that's not on their side is going to be part of the person that they're, part of the thing that they're wrestling with.
• 1:20:21
  Toliy: They're going to be in that camp, sure, right, so if you're not supportive, then you're against you.
• 1:20:31
  Toliy: That's what happens when we individually have an issue.
• 1:20:37
  Toliy: That like, when we have an issue and we bring it up or saying, yo, this is what I'm fighting against, or like, this is a battle I'm going through with this thing, right, if you're not on the supportive side, you are on that thing side in the moment.
• 1:20:51
  Toliy: Sure, and that's what the ego feels, yeah, of course.
• 1:20:54
  Toliy: In the moment.
• 1:20:56
  Toliy: Yes, right, and that, I think, is why the person feels that way always because, like that, that's what's going out, going on.
• 1:21:10
  Toliy: But I do think, through conversation, both people can work together, or the group can work together towards snapping that person out and getting them to leave themselves.
• 1:21:21
  Toliy: Like, leave the person that's wrestling with that thing and look at it outside.
• 1:21:28
  Toliy: And when you can do that, you can.
• 1:21:31
  Toliy: For that moment, you can tap into logic, and logic is not fighting with anybody at any point ever.
• 1:21:37
  Toliy: It just is right yeah, and when you can do that, you can that.
• 1:21:43
  Toliy: That that's when everybody connects on the same page at the same time and the ego is gone, because you're not part of it anymore.
• 1:21:49
  Toliy: At that moment, therefore, the person that that that's like delivering something that has to do with like logic or reason no longer becomes the enemy, because the person who was wrestling with that thing to begin with is no longer fighting against anything Like that.
• 1:22:06
  Toliy: That that's how I feel, which which is what it's going on.
• 1:22:10
  Mike: Yeah, I guess you just, I understand what you're saying, but there's logic and there's also the human condition, and I think yes, I don't know if there's if.
• 1:22:19
  Toliy: If, are you an?
• 1:22:19
  Mike: emotional person.
• 1:22:20
  Mike: Do you have emotions?
• 1:22:21
  Mike: I do.
• 1:22:22
  Mike: Are you always using logic?
• 1:22:22
  Mike: I mean logic, logic.
• 1:22:23
  Mike: No, why not?
• 1:22:24
  Mike: Because you're human.
• 1:22:25
  Mike: Is that like a quick, no explainable answer?
• 1:22:32
  Toliy: No, I no, I think that's probably like a, that's a cop out, probably a cop out.
• 1:22:36
  Toliy: Yeah, not because I'm human, I'm just not.
• 1:22:39
  Toliy: I'm not smart enough.
• 1:22:40
  Toliy: Yeah, yeah, not human Not to be smart enough not to make the right choices.
• 1:22:49
  Eldar: Why are you infected?
• 1:22:50
  Eldar: Why are you infected?
• 1:22:51
  Eldar: What do you mean?
• 1:22:51
  Eldar: Why are you not yet there?
• 1:22:54
  Eldar: What's the kicker?
• 1:22:55
  Eldar: Because of the things that I'm not there yet.
• 1:23:07
  Toliy: I need to figure out how to physically leave those situations so that I could mentally, physically, well, like, like, what does that mean?
• 1:23:13
  Toliy: Like, like?
• 1:23:20
  Toliy: I need to go outside of those situations so that I can have logic and reason break through, so that I can.
• 1:23:28
  Eldar: Why do you have this trait that?
• 1:23:29
  Toliy: you can't.
• 1:23:29
  Toliy: Because I have ego, so arrogance, yeah.
• 1:23:32
  Toliy: Okay, if I'm not a human being.
• 1:23:34
  Eldar: I'm not a human being.
• 1:23:35
  Eldar: It definitely is.
• 1:23:39
  Mike: You know what I'm saying.
• 1:23:45
  Eldar: Why do you want to have ego and arrogance?
• 1:23:47
  Eldar: Why do I want to?
• 1:23:49
  Eldar: Yeah, I don't, you know who's talking to me right now.
• 1:23:51
  Eldar: Me Interesting.
• 1:23:52
  Eldar: Then why do you do?
• 1:23:52
  Eldar: The human is the human and then the logical person.
• 1:23:55
  Toliy: It's the logical person.
• 1:23:56
  Eldar: Well, I haven't figured out a way to do that.
• 1:24:02
  Toliy: Yeah to get, that's why the most important thing for you is to be humble, yeah, okay.
• 1:24:09
  Eldar: Sounds good, I'm glad you still on our journey and I still keep the same records.
• 1:24:14
  Eldar: But why Did I say something?
• 1:24:15
  Eldar: You didn't say anything.
• 1:24:16
  Eldar: You said everything correctly.
• 1:24:18
  Eldar: Yeah, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know.
• 1:24:28
  Eldar: So, mike, say something, bro.
• 1:24:32
  Toliy: Yeah, I don't know if it comes down to like.
• 1:24:34
  Toliy: I don't know if humans are supposed to be the way that we currently, like, perceive them to be.
• 1:24:41
  Mike: It doesn't matter if it's supposed to be, it matters what we are.
• 1:24:43
  Eldar: Yeah, yeah, we gotta be working with what we have.
• 1:24:48
  Toliy: No, yeah, but we're striving towards, you're trying to say, you're trying to give us advice.
• 1:24:52
  Mike: We're fucking, you know, neuro neuroscientists, but we're just a couple of guys who dig fucking holes, you know, not like like that yeah, no, I think that.
• 1:25:02
  Toliy: No, I think that you have a lot more abilities than that and you actually think.
• 1:25:06
  Mike: I believe that you're right as well.
• 1:25:07
  Mike: Human element to the wider.
• 1:25:10
  Mike: Oh, you overplay basketball still listen, you still overdreams over.
• 1:25:15
  Eldar: Listen, guys.
• 1:25:15
  Eldar: I had a very tough day today.
• 1:25:17
  Eldar: Yeah, my mom was in surgery.
• 1:25:19
  Eldar: Yeah, despite of what you might have perceived, yeah, I've perceived something else.
• 1:25:24
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying.
• 1:25:26
  Eldar: I'm human, you're human, you know what I'm saying?
• 1:25:29
  Eldar: So the life I don't have experiences in these fucking things, as much as you fucking might think I do.
• 1:25:34
  Eldar: Oh, yeah, I go and I roll with the punches, yeah what.
• 1:25:38
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying.
• 1:25:39
  Eldar: Yeah.
• 1:25:40
  Eldar: Like anybody else, would you know what I'm saying?
• 1:25:42
  Eldar: I learn and I try to understand and all this other shit, and I try to use my knowledge that I previously have gotten somewhere in order to apply to certain things.
• 1:25:50
  Eldar: But I've seen the fucking battle between emotional side.
• 1:25:55
  Eldar: That's fucking owning me and my logical side that's trying to own in my emotional side.
• 1:26:00
  Eldar: Of course you know what I'm saying.
• 1:26:01
  Eldar: Yeah, you can just go that far, but there is a battle, there is.
• 1:26:06
  Eldar: So, this is part of being human, like.
• 1:26:08
  Mike: I said I think that's what it is.
• 1:26:10
  Eldar: I think and we have our Achilles heel in those moments, you know, in the certain moments.
• 1:26:15
  Eldar: You know what I mean.
• 1:26:16
  Eldar: Yeah, I mean, sure, like I get it, but certain things that are a little more serious, maybe it's a little bit harder.
• 1:26:22
  Mike: Yeah, it is harder, for sure.
• 1:26:24
  Eldar: And this is not because I choose it to be, it's because of what it is.
• 1:26:26
  Eldar: It's just what it is.
• 1:26:27
  Eldar: I'm not going to lie about it Like I didn't fucking just cruise through the fucking day.
• 1:26:30
  Eldar: I didn't cruise through the day.
• 1:26:32
  Eldar: Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
• 1:26:34
  Eldar: Yeah, that's why I fucking drinking right now I think you know what I'm saying Because I fucking need it to relax bro, relax it a little bit, you know what I'm saying, like I need it to fucking calm down.
• 1:26:43
  Eldar: You know what I mean.
• 1:26:45
  Mike: Yeah, and I think I think what you're saying.
• 1:26:50
  Mike: That's why I always say, like you are, you're very smart, you're very reasonable, you're very the way you think things.
• 1:26:56
  Mike: Sometimes, like yo, I can't believe.
• 1:26:57
  Mike: Like he, we're going on one thing and you're going to completely think, but it makes perfect sense, like I would have never thought of that.
• 1:27:03
  Mike: You know, I think that's great, but also factoring that we are human, we develop at a different time.
• 1:27:09
  Mike: We need different approaches because of all of our sicknesses that we have been carrying, all of our pains and hurts and you know, illogical things, we can't just, like a robot, turn on a fucking dime.
• 1:27:21
  Toliy: No, but no, this is logic.
• 1:27:22
  Toliy: No, I'm not saying Now we have to live logically.
• 1:27:24
  Toliy: No, I know, but I'm not saying that that's what needs to happen.
• 1:27:27
  Mike: But the way that the device is being given in a way, you're giving the advice for the perfect human who is like yo.
• 1:27:33
  Mike: You know what.
• 1:27:34
  Mike: This is logical and there's no way I shouldn't get emotional because, because I know.
• 1:27:39
  Toliy: No, but what?
• 1:27:40
  Toliy: But no, but am I saying that it's not okay to get emotional?
• 1:27:44
  Toliy: No, I don't.
• 1:27:46
  Mike: I haven't said that now?
• 1:27:47
  Toliy: Yeah, am I saying that like something right away needs to, like change or like a?
• 1:27:52
  Mike: No, but the approach that you're giving is you're giving it to an advice for a person who's extremely high level.
• 1:28:01
  Toliy: Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm saying that.
• 1:28:05
  Toliy: That's what the differences in, in, in in.
• 1:28:08
  Toliy: What I'm saying is that, like um, it does not need to be understood in the moment because I know why would you not give advice that can be understood in the moment?
• 1:28:18
  Toliy: Well, because I find it.
• 1:28:19
  Toliy: I find the process Well, so, so.
• 1:28:22
  Toliy: So I guess I find the process more valuable um of you going through it, and you will go through it because there is.
• 1:28:33
  Mike: How can you call?
• 1:28:34
  Mike: How can again, how can you make that call that that is a better process or more valuable, or that you will go through it?
• 1:28:40
  Mike: How do you have these answers?
• 1:28:42
  Toliy: Um, because you can't like.
• 1:28:43
  Toliy: The killer was saying you can't close the box once it's been opened.
• 1:28:48
  Mike: How do you, where is your proof that the box can be closed Um people's?
• 1:28:54
  Mike: People can suicide all the time.
• 1:28:56
  Toliy: Well, yeah, well, that that's what I'm saying that it requires probably, like the, the probably the main requirement is, like a thinking individual that wants self development.
• 1:29:06
  Toliy: Yeah, I, I, I think that you're misunderstanding.
• 1:29:09
  Toliy: Um, possible, yeah, like, the point of what I'm saying to begin with is that, like I'm not expecting for all people every time to be like, yeah, you know what, like you're right, and then start asking me questions about it.
• 1:29:23
  Toliy: I know that like a seeds planted and like a questions planted, and I definitely find value when you going through the process.
• 1:29:30
  Toliy: If you're not going to, if we're not going to have the conversation now and then right, then, like I know that you're still going to go on a journey, journey with or without me, but you're still going to go on it that question will be there.
• 1:29:42
  Toliy: It's going to either be there right away, it's going to come up in a year, it's going to come up in 10 years.
• 1:29:46
  Toliy: But I feel like, uh, you've seen something that you can't unsee if you continue to be on a path right Of like a like a self development type of mindset, right, Right right now, I don't think you can unsee it regardless.
• 1:29:59
  Eldar: Yeah, path or not, yeah.
• 1:30:02
  Toliy: He was asking how do I know that that's for like, for sure, like what?
• 1:30:04
  Toliy: What proof do I have?
• 1:30:06
  Eldar: That like that.
• 1:30:07
  Eldar: I'm not sure if you can.
• 1:30:08
  Eldar: You can, you can give him the proof, but um consciousness, I think is vast, yeah, I.
• 1:30:16
  Toliy: I, yeah, see, like I, I like now, now that I'm thinking about it more, I feel like, um, the issue is that I feel, like you think, that my approach is not working where I feel that it is working, but the assumption for people is that it like it's not working because, like, like the look, the person is not listening to you, to to you right away, right, or they're not taking your advice right away, yeah, but I know internally that, like, they're going on a particular path, with or without me, that is going, I think, to, to, to better them no matter what.
• 1:30:49
  Mike: Yeah, so I'm asking you how do you know this?
• 1:30:51
  Mike: Give me the examples of the people that you've had these things with that have had success in this path.
• 1:30:57
  Toliy: Well, I feel like I mean it's everybody Like like.
• 1:31:02
  Toliy: It's everybody Like anyone that you have this kind of conversation with you can't like unsee that, you can't unthink that like forever If you continue you want a real example, Mike.
• 1:31:14
  Eldar: No, no, no because you have those examples too.
• 1:31:17
  Eldar: Yeah, I think that you, finally, you've entered a very specific thing where you're able to give today's advice that's going to be ripening up tomorrow.
• 1:31:29
  Mike: I agree yeah.
• 1:31:30
  Eldar: Yeah, with the people around you.
• 1:31:31
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying.
• 1:31:32
  Eldar: Yeah.
• 1:31:35
  Mike: No, I.
• 1:31:35
  Mike: Just.
• 1:31:35
  Mike: The question is why is he convinced that his approach is the?
• 1:31:38
  Mike: Because he's saying his approach is the best, better approach.
• 1:31:41
  Eldar: Well, oh, okay.
• 1:31:42
  Mike: Yes, you said you're, you think you believe your approach is the better approach.
• 1:31:45
  Toliy: No, no, I'm.
• 1:31:46
  Toliy: I'm saying is that like the way I'm listening to you Listening to now, is that I feel like you're saying that my approach doesn't work?
• 1:31:52
  Toliy: Where I feel that, like what I'm saying, I feel, at least, is like the truth and that truth, to a certain degree, whether it's for that person like a big boulder, or I think your approach works, but for different people in different stages of development.
• 1:32:08
  Toliy: No, no, see like that.
• 1:32:09
  Toliy: That.
• 1:32:09
  Toliy: That that's where I disagree, because I feel like you're assuming that it needs to do something, like it needs to do something for a particular person or a particular moment where I feel like it does something.
• 1:32:21
  Mike: But this is using the words you feel and I feel, but what we feel is irrelevant here.
• 1:32:25
  Mike: No, no, I mean, I think that is yeah I feel you can dunk and you feel like you can't, whether you can dunk or not that's not how I feel.
• 1:32:33
  Toliy: Okay, that feels right.
• 1:32:34
  Toliy: I think that that is what.
• 1:32:36
  Toliy: Yeah, yeah feels that it is, is is the wrong word.
• 1:32:39
  Toliy: I, I, I, I think that that is happening because I feel like I, I, I believe that when you say the, the truth, it's going to fall on all different kinds of people's ears and all different kinds of ways it's not only what you say, but it's also how you say it totally.
• 1:32:58
  Eldar: I think that's important.
• 1:32:59
  Eldar: Yes, you channeling Dennis here.
• 1:33:01
  Mike: Yeah, I'm channeling Buddha.
• 1:33:03
  Mike: I think Buddha said that.
• 1:33:03
  Mike: No.
• 1:33:04
  Toliy: Yeah, and it's going to 100%.
• 1:33:05
  Toliy: It's going to 100%.
• 1:33:06
  Toliy: You're 100% right.
• 1:33:08
  Toliy: How you say something and what what you say is going to impact all different kinds of people in different ways.
• 1:33:13
  Eldar: No, no, no no hold on one second, I'm sorry.
• 1:33:15
  Eldar: I think the reason why we can't take totally's advice per se is that we're not humble enough.
• 1:33:21
  Eldar: Sure For the moment, Sure being.
• 1:33:24
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying.
• 1:33:26
  Toliy: Yeah, but but I feel like the the assumption for for that other people have is that they need to be humble enough for me to give that kind of advice.
• 1:33:34
  Eldar: But I feel, I think, you think that they under the impression of that?
• 1:33:37
  Eldar: No, what, what that, what that?
• 1:33:39
  Eldar: They themselves need to be humble enough in order to receive the other.
• 1:33:42
  Toliy: Come on, man, no no, no, no, I'm saying, is that like, like I don't need it to work, like okay?
• 1:33:47
  Toliy: So I would say that, like, if you told the situation what's happening, probably majority of people would say that my, my, my advice is not working.
• 1:33:56
  Toliy: Yeah, sure, right, I agree.
• 1:33:59
  Toliy: So I, I believe that it is working, but I believe that it's behind the scenes.
• 1:34:03
  Toliy: Yes, but people believe that, like, look, it's not working, there's no progress.
• 1:34:07
  Toliy: Right, it's not being heard, that's right.
• 1:34:09
  Toliy: Right, like, like this, well, I, I believe that there are seeds planted that take 10 years to sprout.
• 1:34:15
  Toliy: That may or may not come back to me, yeah, but they can't unsee what I, what I said.
• 1:34:19
  Toliy: I agreed, I agree with this.
• 1:34:22
  Toliy: Yes, that that that's what I'm saying.
• 1:34:23
  Toliy: Other people could perceive us like yo look like he's listening to you.
• 1:34:26
  Toliy: And I'm saying is that, like, like some people and in some moments they could hear it and they could listen, and we could have a conversation that could be heard very well and like receive very well and very productive, like right away.
• 1:34:41
  Eldar: Yeah, right, yeah.
• 1:34:44
  Toliy: But for the majority of times I'm probably like met with more anger, or like frustration, or like like a, like, like a more, more, more more of those kinds of emotions, but I still believe that it is still productive, good advice, because there's a seed that's planted that will never be forgotten, like I'm creating, like a, like a PTSD of truth on that, on that song's object, in that moment, you know.
• 1:35:08
  Toliy: So I feel that it's still very effective.
• 1:35:11
  Eldar: I agree with that and I mean to measure the effectiveness on it is very difficult, right, obviously, because you have to factor in variables like time, you know, and all this other shit in there you know.
• 1:35:27
  Eldar: But I think that his more approach Mike, I don't know if you familiar with Zen Buddhism you know what Zen Buddhism is.
• 1:35:34
  Mike: No, they hit you over the head, that's right.
• 1:35:36
  Eldar: That's right.
• 1:35:36
  Eldar: They instead of right.
• 1:35:38
  Eldar: Instead of explaining, taking their time or whatever, they take the stick and they hit you right over the head.
• 1:35:42
  Eldar: It's just to fuck up and do this or whatever.
• 1:35:45
  Mike: This is more solved like the way that you don't want to raise your kids.
• 1:35:49
  Eldar: No, well, again, right, the effectiveness is can be debated, and stuff like that.
• 1:35:53
  Eldar: You know what I mean, but I understand what he's coming from.
• 1:35:56
  Eldar: Yeah, this doesn't mean that, like I said, our egos can necessarily take that type of an approach right away.
• 1:36:04
  Eldar: You know what I mean.
• 1:36:07
  Toliy: But that's what I'm saying.
• 1:36:08
  Toliy: If you have a person that's interested in self-development and they're still developing themselves, they never really will.
• 1:36:14
  Toliy: Sure, just over a period of time.
• 1:36:18
  Toliy: Period of time, yeah.
• 1:36:19
  Eldar: That's what I'm saying.
• 1:36:19
  Eldar: That's why the variable of time is a very tricky one.
• 1:36:22
  Toliy: Yeah.
• 1:36:23
  Eldar: Yeah, and unless you might get there.
• 1:36:26
  Toliy: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:36:27
  Toliy: So I don't necessarily view it as like a failure in those different scenarios and that's for everybody.
• 1:36:34
  Toliy: That could be things I've said to.
• 1:36:36
  Eldar: No, but see, the thing is, you might not say that now, but at the end of the day, when you're posing questions like hey, Mike, are you on a diet?
• 1:36:44
  Eldar: And you want an actual answer, and you didn't get the actual answer.
• 1:36:47
  Eldar: You failed.
• 1:36:49
  Mike: Yeah.
• 1:36:50
  Eldar: There's like an expression.
• 1:36:52
  Mike: You get more with honey than with vinegar, right.
• 1:36:55
  Eldar: Yes, you get more bees with honey than vinegar.
• 1:36:57
  Mike: Yeah Well, yeah Well.
• 1:36:59
  Mike: I mean your goal is to help people, right, If you're generally no no, it doesn't mean have to help people, right?
• 1:37:05
  Eldar: If his goal is to find out the information that he would like to find out, right, that's his goal.
• 1:37:09
  Eldar: This is the box that we're playing in Totally.
• 1:37:13
  Eldar: Would like to find out this information or the truth of the matter.
• 1:37:17
  Eldar: What is happening when he doesn't have the ability or his ability?
• 1:37:22
  Eldar: The way he comes across with his ability doesn't get him there.
• 1:37:25
  Eldar: This shows what that's the thing is not effective.
• 1:37:28
  Eldar: Now if he said Eldar, I don't give a fuck.
• 1:37:31
  Eldar: Actually, I'm just fucking trolling and I'm just fucking playing games, that's a different story.
• 1:37:37
  Eldar: Something tells me that it's not.
• 1:37:40
  Mike: Yeah, he is an only little fucker.
• 1:37:41
  Toliy: Yeah.
• 1:37:43
  Mike: Yeah, no I would say definitely.
• 1:37:44
  Toliy: The majority of the time it's trolling and definitely more playing games.
• 1:37:47
  Toliy: I feel like that's something that I've measured from how different people operate and reply.
• 1:37:56
  Mike: Another thing that just came to mind is I have an notorious thing of oversharing, and in the past oversharing with Toly has got me into trouble, so I never learned.
• 1:38:13
  Mike: I'm not sure if I learned yet.
• 1:38:16
  Eldar: Withholding information.
• 1:38:17
  Mike: Withholding in order to not.
• 1:38:20
  Eldar: No, that's a different side of the coin, where you don't know how to properly engage Toly and extract what you need from Toly, so that's another thing, as I said, the more you understand the way he operates the more, you will be able to engage him in such a way where it can benefit you versus where it can hurt you.
• 1:38:35
  Eldar: Absolutely.
• 1:38:35
  Eldar: Yes, because a lot of times we operate our own ego, and our ego is very fragile.
• 1:38:40
  Mike: Yes.
• 1:38:41
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying.
• 1:38:43
  Mike: Yeah, yeah, this is true.
• 1:38:44
  Mike: That's another thing that came to mind.
• 1:38:47
  Eldar: I know what I can go to Toly with.
• 1:38:48
  Eldar: And I know what I can go to Toly with because it hurts me too much or whatever it is, and I would like to learn it because I understand it's important.
• 1:38:55
  Mike: So, again, something new that I'm learning.
• 1:38:57
  Mike: So I'm trying to learn the approach Exactly.
• 1:38:59
  Mike: I'm fucking, I'm open as a book, I think.
• 1:39:02
  Mike: Yeah, like you know, I don't mind sharing.
• 1:39:04
  Mike: I love talking to people and sharing what's going on in my life.
• 1:39:06
  Mike: So for me not to share with something that I see daily, it's natural I'd like to do it, but if it's going to cause me pain, why would I?
• 1:39:14
  Eldar: Well, yeah, that's why you need to learn.
• 1:39:17
  Mike: Then why would I put myself in a situation that's going to make me then, you know, to be in a suffering, correct?
• 1:39:21
  Eldar: Correct, and I think that that's why I think through this type of communication, you can both learn from what, you can gather the stuff and deduce that like what's beneficial for him and what's beneficial for you, in order to continue the relationship and make it stronger and better.
• 1:39:37
  Toliy: Yeah, I just feel that like being only being open if you know you're not going to experience pain.
• 1:39:44
  Toliy: I don't know if that's being open, oh, okay.
• 1:39:48
  Mike: Well, I think if you come into every situation closed, I mean if you come into every situation open and you get hit, I think that's a bit, you know, I mean naive.
• 1:39:59
  Mike: But if you learn over experience that, hey, after 100 times it's painful, I think that's smart.
• 1:40:05
  Mike: No, yeah.
• 1:40:07
  Eldar: I mean, yeah, it's conditioning, it's PTSD, it's conditioning yeah.
• 1:40:11
  Toliy: I mean don't feel that all those, like all the different pains, are like a bad thing.
• 1:40:22
  Mike: Okay, you're trying to talk about.
• 1:40:24
  Mike: Stress is good, you know.
• 1:40:26
  Eldar: Well, no, I mean, I think that, ultimately, what you're trying to get to is truly understand the negatives and the positives of an individual Right.
• 1:40:38
  Toliy: No, I mean, like to me, an individual who is open is bound to experience pain.
• 1:40:46
  Mike: Yeah, but are you going to put your hand in the fire just because you want to make sure it's still hot?
• 1:40:55
  Eldar: What would you yeah?
• 1:40:56
  Toliy: Well, I mean, if that's how you look at it, but I feel like, if I know, if I know, if I do X, Y and Z.
• 1:41:03
  Mike: I'm going to get ABC from you.
• 1:41:04
  Mike: Why would I, why would I do that?
• 1:41:09
  Toliy: I mean, if you have an attachment to learn, then I think you would.
• 1:41:16
  Mike: If I have an attachment to learn what that?
• 1:41:17
  Mike: The fire is still hot.
• 1:41:18
  Toliy: Well, no, the pain I don't think is necessarily in what's happening.
• 1:41:22
  Toliy: The pain is in the ego that the person himself have.
• 1:41:26
  Toliy: Yeah, and if that's something that they'd like to work on or face, then suffering or pain would then become like a closer I think, friend.
• 1:41:40
  Mike: Okay, yeah, in a world where I mean that'd be great every time to make that choice.
• 1:41:46
  Mike: Well, that's what I'm saying.
• 1:41:47
  Mike: It's not every time, but if you're not ready to tackle it in the moment, then you have to come up with a different way to deal with the situation.
• 1:41:56
  Toliy: Yeah, but then you're not open.
• 1:41:59
  Mike: Yeah, definitely not open.
• 1:42:02
  Mike: Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
• 1:42:07
  Toliy: Yeah, but you were just saying that you like to think, that you're very open, that you want to share.
• 1:42:11
  Mike: I am very open.
• 1:42:12
  Mike: I think yeah.
• 1:42:13
  Toliy: I don't know what do you think Other?
• 1:42:15
  Toliy: It's a conundrum.
• 1:42:18
  Eldar: It's a conundrum it's going to come down to.
• 1:42:23
  Eldar: The thing that Mike mentioned is trust, and the truth of the matter is, what you're asking for is blind trust, and the truth of the matter is, for a person who's smart enough, then I am never going to give it.
• 1:42:35
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying.
• 1:42:38
  Eldar: You're saying that, hey, like, open up to me and you're going to learn.
• 1:42:41
  Eldar: He's like wait a minute, I'm not going through that.
• 1:42:45
  Eldar: Why would I?
• 1:42:46
  Eldar: I'm going to look for a different approach.
• 1:42:49
  Toliy: Yeah, I mean sure.
• 1:42:52
  Eldar: I'm going to look for approach that is more suited towards how I feel and what it is that I can take.
• 1:42:57
  Eldar: I'm going to make a very calculated choice you know what I mean in order to avoid certain pains 100%, but this is not an open person, sure.
• 1:43:11
  Toliy: That's what I'm saying.
• 1:43:12
  Eldar: And I think an open person is a stupid person, and that matter.
• 1:43:18
  Eldar: In that case, you don't want to be an open person, why would you be an open person?
• 1:43:22
  Eldar: Explain that to me.
• 1:43:25
  Eldar: What's the benefit of being an open person?
• 1:43:27
  Eldar: We're talking about trust here, right?
• 1:43:29
  Eldar: Do you trust open or do you don't?
• 1:43:33
  Toliy: Well, no, I'm saying that, like, with a level of openness comes a level of pain, they go, I think, hand in hand.
• 1:43:42
  Eldar: Because you're not smart enough.
• 1:43:45
  Toliy: Well, no, because you would like progress.
• 1:43:47
  Toliy: And I feel like when you would like to face something or have progress, there's going to be pain.
• 1:43:51
  Toliy: And you say in the prerequisites that it's being open Well there has to be a level of openness In order to progress, and yeah, the more like if you're closed, then you're not going to be talking about what's actually happening.
• 1:44:05
  Mike: But I think, like I would think, about giving the example that's in line with this.
• 1:44:09
  Mike: Two years ago, I was much more sensitive than I am today.
• 1:44:15
  Eldar: Yeah.
• 1:44:16
  Mike: And I would not come to you for that.
• 1:44:17
  Mike: Now I'm asking all of you to be more aggressive with me.
• 1:44:21
  Mike: Why?
• 1:44:21
  Mike: Because I filled some prerequisites, filled some things that I'm now able to take more.
• 1:44:27
  Mike: But, because of what, though?
• 1:44:30
  Toliy: but because of what?
• 1:44:32
  Mike: Because I did it at a pace where I learned why, I saw through it, where I understood it and, with time and practicing and seeing for what it is I'm able to take on more, more more of a straight approach.
• 1:44:45
  Mike: But I didn't just say you know what, you know what, today I'm going to do this, and I had other things, for example, that I wanted to work on.
• 1:44:52
  Toliy: Yeah, but see, like I feel like that is your perception as to what what happened, but I'm not sure if that's actually what happened.
• 1:44:59
  Eldar: Well, I don't definitely know what actually happened, then Don't know what happened.
• 1:45:02
  Toliy: Well, I think it was a combination effort of different people doing all different kinds of things.
• 1:45:08
  Eldar: Right, but what's the conclusion that he made?
• 1:45:11
  Toliy: Well, the conclusion that he makes internally as to what what happened doesn't necessarily mean of what actually happened.
• 1:45:18
  Mike: No, what actually happened happened.
• 1:45:19
  Mike: I'm able to take on, yeah, yeah, no, no actions of actions.
• 1:45:23
  Mike: No, that's not a argument.
• 1:45:24
  Mike: Yeah, the process played out.
• 1:45:26
  Toliy: Yeah, I'm talking about what he said what worked and what didn't work for him.
• 1:45:29
  Toliy: Tell me what he think, what you think that he thinks my understanding is that, in the example to happen, my understanding is this In the example that he's providing, he's showing like see, look, I was this way, but through Eldar's approach, right, this is what happened and this is how this what happened.
• 1:45:51
  Toliy: And now I'm coming to him saying that I that I want more of a straightforward way.
• 1:45:56
  Mike: That, that's my understanding.
• 1:45:57
  Mike: I know it's a him.
• 1:45:58
  Mike: I came to all you guys.
• 1:46:01
  Eldar: Yeah, no, you said it in public.
• 1:46:03
  Toliy: I remember this, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, sure, but what I'm saying is that, like, what he's saying is that, as a result of the approach that Eldar used on me, this is what happened.
• 1:46:12
  Toliy: And see, like I succeeded because of his approach.
• 1:46:16
  Toliy: That's not what he said, that's not what I heard, that's definitely what I heard.
• 1:46:22
  Eldar: So the only reason why you came to this is because of the way I approached him.
• 1:46:25
  Toliy: you saying but my understanding is that he was trying to.
• 1:46:31
  Toliy: He's like like.
• 1:46:32
  Toliy: He's trying to show that like, look like.
• 1:46:33
  Toliy: Now, the result of what happened is this I would like people to be more straightforward with me.
• 1:46:36
  Toliy: I'm making that request, you know, to you and to, to, to to others, but it came from from the more of the approach that that like you do.
• 1:46:49
  Toliy: That's what he said.
• 1:46:50
  Toliy: Well, that's the truth of the matter.
• 1:46:52
  Eldar: Well, that's the obvious.
• 1:46:53
  Eldar: Well, no see, I don't think that, no, but that's what happened.
• 1:46:54
  Eldar: No the end result I agree with, but what do?
• 1:47:00
  Toliy: you think happened.
• 1:47:01
  Toliy: That was not one of the variables.
• 1:47:04
  Eldar: Well, no, that was part of it.
• 1:47:05
  Eldar: But I'm saying, yeah, but that's part of it.
• 1:47:08
  Toliy: But he doesn't see other variables in it.
• 1:47:09
  Toliy: But he's seen a big variable that this is where he came from.
• 1:47:11
  Toliy: No, no, I'm saying that the reason he's saying what he's saying is to prove that what I do does not work and what you do works Right.
• 1:47:22
  Toliy: So I'm saying is that I just think I agree with his result.
• 1:47:24
  Toliy: Yeah right, I agree with his result, but the perception of how he got there and what contributed towards it, I see it in a completely different way.
• 1:47:37
  Eldar: I agree that there's a combination of different variables that were placed.
• 1:47:41
  Toliy: I saw people in his life that were the complete opposite of me, for example, right and did particular things, and I saw him not liking that over times.
• 1:47:49
  Toliy: Right With with with different people, I saw the know, you know about like you doing certain things, me doing certain things, and again all different people playing different roles in that challenge him in all different type of ways, people that completely were not up front with him or giving him like like nothing.
• 1:48:06
  Toliy: I think he felt that along the way with different people.
• 1:48:10
  Eldar: Sure, but you also got on thin that the perception that he has is is warranted because of the fact that the 90% of the time right, it was what it was me holding it down.
• 1:48:22
  Eldar: No, he's supposed to fucking see what's highlighted.
• 1:48:29
  Toliy: Well, yeah, well, sure, yeah, but I'm saying is that, like I don't know, there's all the 10% that were fucking helping him and stuff like that in the journey.
• 1:48:36
  Eldar: But ultimately, hey, hey, what are you eating?
• 1:48:38
  Eldar: That's okay.
• 1:48:39
  Eldar: Ultimately he saw what he saw, for what it was Like.
• 1:48:43
  Eldar: This was the majority of the effect.
• 1:48:45
  Eldar: He's been following a very specific blueprint.
• 1:48:51
  Mike: Yeah, yes, yeah, I guess I know that there was all the stuff, like you was all the stuff, 100% doing stuff.
• 1:48:56
  Eldar: Yeah.
• 1:48:57
  Eldar: Yeah, all you guys were contributing to getting me tougher, for sure, but most of the time that I spent with the elder, most of the conversations that had, was with elder the openness and all the other stuff were translated into slow steps into getting to a place where I can fucking tell him that he's a fucking idiot.
• 1:49:15
  Toliy: Yeah, no sure, like that's.
• 1:49:16
  Toliy: That's a result of what happened, but I think that the approach is from all the different.
• 1:49:20
  Mike: No, all the approaches, from all different people contributed Sure.
• 1:49:24
  Mike: They definitely did.
• 1:49:28
  Eldar: But what I'm saying is that our perception will always go towards the fact that what's the biggest thing, what's the cause of the biggest thing?
• 1:49:36
  Eldar: When I go to the small little variables, even though they do a contributed as a small factor.
• 1:49:41
  Toliy: I don't view those, all those different variables.
• 1:49:43
  Eldar: Those are supporting roles.
• 1:49:44
  Eldar: Sure yeah, but I don't know if you're just like, those are the references.
• 1:49:47
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying.
• 1:49:49
  Mike: They're the big ones, I think no, they're not.
• 1:49:51
  Eldar: They're not, absolutely not.
• 1:49:53
  Eldar: And the way it works.
• 1:49:54
  Eldar: It says a very specific thing and then the other individuals has been supporting that to say like, oh, you're going towards the same thing.
• 1:50:01
  Eldar: That's makes sense.
• 1:50:02
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying?
• 1:50:03
  Eldar: Slowly, I'm the one who's taking the fucking slow approach, going very far over time.
• 1:50:10
  Eldar: Right, those things are fucking hard jobs in the moment, which is not perceived as good things.
• 1:50:16
  Eldar: Clearly, if they were, the person would get stuck on those things.
• 1:50:21
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying?
• 1:50:22
  Eldar: Yeah, like I said, they're the supporting cast of the actual overarching thing which was in the moment.
• 1:50:29
  Eldar: What Mike needed was the slow and steady and steady and steady in order to get to the place where you want it.
• 1:50:35
  Eldar: You don't have the same approach.
• 1:50:37
  Eldar: You want it fucking, you want to get punched in the gut.
• 1:50:39
  Eldar: You know what I mean?
• 1:50:40
  Eldar: That's a completely different thing.
• 1:50:41
  Eldar: You know.
• 1:50:43
  Eldar: That's how I see it.
• 1:50:45
  Eldar: How does that not perceive the same way he's supposed to perceive it?
• 1:50:51
  Eldar: This way is what I'm saying, because that's what happened.
• 1:50:54
  Toliy: Yeah, but I know well.
• 1:50:56
  Toliy: So first of all, I don't agree that it's a 90-10 type of like an area.
• 1:51:02
  Eldar: What do you think it is?
• 1:51:02
  Eldar: I mean, I haven't thought about it.
• 1:51:05
  Eldar: I mean, I would have to think about it, think about it, get back to me on it.
• 1:51:09
  Toliy: Yeah, what I'm saying is that, like, like, I think throughout the time there was a lot of different challenges and variables that happened along the way that got him to where to where it got him from all different types of angles, and my understanding was that the way that, like, like, what he was saying to me is like look, this works, this doesn't work.
• 1:51:33
  Toliy: Here's why.
• 1:51:34
  Toliy: Look to where I got.
• 1:51:36
  Mike: And I mean I don't think that was right yeah.
• 1:51:39
  Eldar: He's making a more of a black and white picture, but the reason why I'm explaining to you the reason why he's making a more black and white picture is the way he learns.
• 1:51:46
  Eldar: He knows, he knows the difference.
• 1:51:47
  Eldar: He gravitated towards this very specific thing, a specific thing which, in that moment, was my approach towards it, that's all that was.
• 1:51:55
  Eldar: His ego was more receptive to that.
• 1:51:57
  Eldar: Therefore, he acknowledges that to be the path.
• 1:51:59
  Eldar: Sure, you know what I'm saying.
• 1:52:03
  Toliy: No, no, I know that he acknowledges that Also.
• 1:52:04
  Toliy: We're not talking about the whole thing there.
• 1:52:05
  Mike: Yeah, we're talking about just this one specific thing.
• 1:52:09
  Eldar: I am not saying that's 90-10.
• 1:52:10
  Eldar: It could be 60-40.
• 1:52:11
  Eldar: It could be 55.
• 1:52:14
  Eldar: It was the majority hundred percent.
• 1:52:16
  Toliy: That's not what I'm arguing, though.
• 1:52:17
  Eldar: I'm not.
• 1:52:18
  Eldar: Yeah, that's.
• 1:52:18
  Eldar: That's what I'm saying.
• 1:52:19
  Eldar: Yeah, I was, I was receiving it, I'm explain to you that he's supposed to be maybe confused about the perception of what.
• 1:52:25
  Eldar: Yeah.
• 1:52:26
  Toliy: No, no, and and I wasn't saying that.
• 1:52:28
  Toliy: I am confused as to why he's perceiving it to be that.
• 1:52:31
  Toliy: I understood that.
• 1:52:32
  Toliy: I'm just saying that, like the point he was making when, when he was saying that is like, look, this works, this doesn't work.
• 1:52:42
  Eldar: I'm explain to you why that is yeah, no, no.
• 1:52:44
  Toliy: But I understand that you have a problem with what he's saying.
• 1:52:47
  Toliy: No, no, no, no.
• 1:52:48
  Toliy: I'm just the only point that I was trying to make.
• 1:52:50
  Toliy: Was that what his perception as to what worked and what didn't work?
• 1:52:53
  Toliy: It's just his perception of what's going on.
• 1:52:56
  Eldar: I'm not necessarily the truth, and I'm explaining to you why he has that perception.
• 1:52:59
  Mike: But I was not confused about your perception about what working with it work is also your perception.
• 1:53:05
  Mike: Who here is speaking from facts and not perceptions?
• 1:53:09
  Toliy: well, I just think that, like the, the, the facts are no one, so you're arguing 3050.
• 1:53:17
  Mike: I'm arguing 6090.
• 1:53:18
  Mike: 7080, who?
• 1:53:19
  Eldar: the fuck, nobody, nobody is correct.
• 1:53:22
  Mike: We have our own scales.
• 1:53:23
  Toliy: Yeah, 3670 90.
• 1:53:25
  Toliy: No, no, but I'm saying that the only thing that I I what I felt was incorrect was that the point that you were trying to prove in saying what you were saying Okay, okay, that that's what I was arguing is that he's saying like yo, this doesn't work.
• 1:53:39
  Toliy: See, look what happened to me.
• 1:53:43
  Mike: That was.
• 1:53:43
  Mike: I don't think.
• 1:53:43
  Mike: I don't think I was talking about that.
• 1:53:45
  Mike: I'll talk about being the openness.
• 1:53:46
  Mike: That was the whole thing.
• 1:53:47
  Mike: No, no.
• 1:53:48
  Toliy: After the openness, that that that's what you said.
• 1:53:50
  Toliy: I mean, I think, if you listen to it back, maybe I don't know.
• 1:53:52
  Toliy: Like you, you were trying to prove a point there, mmm.
• 1:54:02
  Eldar: Did he prove it?
• 1:54:02
  Eldar: What did you prove it?
• 1:54:05
  Toliy: I mean, I think no okay, cool, yeah, no no, I prove like look, I'm getting thick skin because of this.
• 1:54:12
  Toliy: No, no, no, no, right, no, I know what you're talking about.
• 1:54:16
  Toliy: What I'm saying is that the thick skin, or the thicker skin, yeah, um, um, develops and and and continues develops from all different types of characters doing all different types of things.
• 1:54:28
  Toliy: And then your Internal management is like I like this, I don't like this, yeah right.
• 1:54:32
  Toliy: And you continue to have that like little thing with everybody, yeah right.
• 1:54:35
  Toliy: Like your relationship with someone that, like can't be honest with you if you realize that you don't like it, right, like that's a, I'm explained that right 100%, but we cannot quantify his objective judgment of it.
• 1:54:47
  Toliy: No, and I was not trying to quantify it all.
• 1:54:49
  Toliy: All I was trying to say no, no, not to refute what happened is to refute that perception of it.
• 1:54:58
  Toliy: His, his idea of using it like, like, against me and saying that like, see, this is what happened, fine, fine, yeah, sure, you know.
• 1:55:06
  Toliy: Sure, because I think that that that is just a perception and not the Reality of the scenario, and all I'm trying to do was depict like how that was how.
• 1:55:14
  Toliy: That's not how, that's only a perception and not the reality of what was going on.
• 1:55:19
  Eldar: But do you realize that it's very hard to quantify something like this on every step?
• 1:55:23
  Toliy: Oh it definitely is yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean it doesn't say yeah.
• 1:55:26
  Toliy: Yeah.
• 1:55:27
  Eldar: Yeah, okay.
• 1:55:28
  Toliy: Yeah, and I wasn't trying to Quant quantified, as I, like you, know that that gets like 2% credit, this gets like nine.
• 1:55:34
  Toliy: I was just trying to say is that the lessons that we learn in general are all, from all different kinds of things, correct, but in moments we don't have the ability to see where they're coming from at all different types of how much an effect.
• 1:55:47
  Toliy: Yes, in the particular correct yeah, correct in some moments were able to recognize like yo, this is a huge factor, yeah, and other moments are able to recognize no, this is a huge factor, right, wait.
• 1:55:57
  Toliy: Which is why, like, even when I Like, like, the last time I said something to you was like yo, this is the most important thing for me.
• 1:56:04
  Toliy: Yeah, you said no, it's not right now, it's the most important right now thing for me.
• 1:56:09
  Toliy: Because this is what I see right now.
• 1:56:11
  Toliy: Yeah, that I brought and I highlighted out yeah, right, yeah, once I I'm better at working on that and I do that, you already know that I'm going to see something else.
• 1:56:19
  Toliy: That's right, right, that's right.
• 1:56:20
  Eldar: Me in the moment cannot see that but that's the thing I'm arguing to you, that that was 90, 10 for you.
• 1:56:27
  Toliy: You know what I'm saying in my perception of it in the moment.
• 1:56:29
  Toliy: That's right 100%.
• 1:56:31
  Toliy: You have to see it.
• 1:56:31
  Eldar: Yes.
• 1:56:32
  Toliy: Yeah, yeah, you can already see a step ahead, yeah.
• 1:56:35
  Eldar: That's 60, 40 that, yeah, it's gonna be that.
• 1:56:37
  Eldar: And then eventually.
• 1:56:38
  Toliy: I'm gonna put this down Correct and go for something else.
• 1:56:40
  Toliy: Correct me in the moment.
• 1:56:41
  Toliy: Only sees that and that's my perception of it.
• 1:56:43
  Toliy: That's right.
• 1:56:44
  Toliy: That's right, Right.
• 1:56:45
  Toliy: I agree that.
• 1:56:46
  Toliy: That that's what I was saying.
• 1:56:48
  Toliy: That's a subjective truth.
• 1:56:48
  Toliy: Yes, that that's what I'm saying is that the way that he was describing it was his perception of what was going on.
• 1:56:54
  Toliy: The only thing that I was trying to say is that I don't think it's a correct thing to use that as Evidence of it is not, but it is a correct way.
• 1:57:03
  Eldar: That's the way we live, though.
• 1:57:04
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying.
• 1:57:06
  Eldar: Our decision-making comes from those conclusions, from those perceptions.
• 1:57:12
  Toliy: Yes, but I think that when, when, when we're able to think about them, we're able to live, I think, above our Perceptions and we're able to tap into what's actually sure going on, but the evidence is the evidence and you still have to consider that to be a guide of some sorts.
• 1:57:30
  Eldar: Sure for the person, especially because because, like, like, when you made the conclusion of about, hey, humility is the most important thing, I don't disagree with that, bro, I don't disagree with that.
• 1:57:40
  Eldar: Yeah, I think humility is huge up there, huge, yeah.
• 1:57:45
  Eldar: So for you to be able to discount that later, if I said to you, hey, like, look, the logic should tell you otherwise, you can discount it.
• 1:57:51
  Eldar: But the truth of the matter is, I think it's a universal thing, no, 100%, but also once you told me what you told me, I understood what you were.
• 1:57:59
  Toliy: Yes, I'm saying because I was making it be like yo, that's it, just do this.
• 1:58:03
  Toliy: And that that's it when you understood that there's gonna be one once you realize that there's gonna be something else.
• 1:58:09
  Toliy: So you're gonna think about one day that you're gonna put in the four, four front and me, when I'm making that statement, I'm not able to to uh to see that or understand it.
• 1:58:17
  Toliy: Yes, because that was your main focus at that moment and again I I feel like this is probably on a very minute scale, but my willingness, for example, to be open with that, when you told me that the first thing is probably a little bit of pain and then it's the realization of what is actually happening.
• 1:58:33
  Eldar: And guess what right and guess what.
• 1:58:35
  Eldar: For me, it was zero percent chance that you would understand what I said.
• 1:58:39
  Toliy: That's how I perceive it.
• 1:58:41
  Eldar: Oh, I wouldn't okay you wouldn't because of the attachment to the specific thing.
• 1:58:45
  Eldar: Okay, so you?
• 1:58:46
  Toliy: you're saying that right away.
• 1:58:47
  Toliy: I would not understand what you were saying, correct?
• 1:58:50
  Eldar: That's why I threw the seed out there, to see whether or not it was Sprout sometime down the line for you to understand it.
• 1:58:56
  Eldar: Yes, just to give you an idea, because in the moment we were trying to be objective about it.
• 1:59:00
  Toliy: Yeah, and and and that's how I feel.
• 1:59:01
  Toliy: I.
• 1:59:02
  Toliy: I guess I feel that similarly maybe in my approach is that maybe I could be Truthful and the person's not gonna like it, like in the moment, but I still feel that is implanted.
• 1:59:14
  Eldar: Sure, but the reason why I gave it to you in that way that I did is because I needed to shoot down the Specific thing, because you asked me to do it.
• 1:59:22
  Eldar: That's it another.
• 1:59:24
  Eldar: If I was, if it was Mike saying it to me, I'll like yeah, you're right, you know what I'm saying, because I know that this is the journey he needs to go on for a long period of time in order to solidify that what he just learned.
• 1:59:35
  Eldar: It's a completely different approach.
• 1:59:36
  Eldar: I'm trying to teach what is asked at all times and that is what embodied is in me and me as it's embodied in me.
• 1:59:45
  Eldar: So I'll give you what you need in the moment, based on what you've asked, my, my best.
• 1:59:54
  Toliy: You know what I'm saying.
• 1:59:55
  Toliy: Yes, yeah, I guess at times I don't feel comfortable giving what, what you ask you know.
• 1:59:59
  Toliy: Yeah, you know, because I don't feel Correct when I'm doing that that I'm being genuine, genuine adjust, yes, yeah.
• 2:00:07
  Mike: But is it genuine or is it just?
• 2:00:09
  Eldar: it is.
• 2:00:09
  Eldar: It is because, because you know, because when the person tells you what they want and how they learn, you have to take the word for it Up until they break that and lie to themselves.
• 2:00:22
  Eldar: And that's the lesson.
• 2:00:24
  Eldar: And when they finally break through that, you can.
• 2:00:26
  Eldar: You can set a new bar.
• 2:00:27
  Toliy: Yes, yeah, I feel like I know that they're lying to themselves.
• 2:00:30
  Toliy: I know, bro, they are, you know you know this is a long-standing argument.
• 2:00:35
  Eldar: That mean you have and a different approaches, yeah, but many times you came back to me and said yo, like yo, I want to get on your side.
• 2:00:44
  Eldar: You know what I mean, because I realized that I'm the gremlin here.
• 2:00:49
  Toliy: Yeah, that, that, that definitely have.
• 2:00:51
  Eldar: You don't want to be, the gremlin, yeah, but then at times I'm all.
• 2:00:53
  Toliy: I'm also like Yo.
• 2:00:54
  Toliy: I don't have an attachment to this, like there you go.
• 2:00:56
  Toliy: They don't like me like it is what it is, yeah.
• 2:00:58
  Toliy: And I have that too.
• 2:01:02
  Eldar: Yeah, I just need to green the, the pass to it.
• 2:01:05
  Eldar: Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
• 2:01:07
  Eldar: Yeah, I don't feel bad about bashing Mike sometimes.
• 2:01:10
  Eldar: Right now I don't feel bad about that at all Because he gave me the green light, just like I don't feel bad with being strong with you because he gave me the green light.
• 2:01:18
  Eldar: If, at any point, you come back and say, like Dennis said, right, hey, can you be more sensitive with me?
• 2:01:22
  Eldar: You know what I mean.
• 2:01:23
  Eldar: Like I'm like oh, holy shit, let's say the gigs up.
• 2:01:26
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying is like it's gigs up, like what are we talking about?
• 2:01:30
  Eldar: It makes you really difficult Because I think that by asking to be truthful, you setting a fucking bar, a standard that you yourself want to function against.
• 2:01:44
  Toliy: You know what I'm saying, but I think when doing that you're signing up for for, I guess pain your ego is signing up for pain.
• 2:01:50
  Toliy: Yeah, you're saying you're signing up your ego, which doesn't know, in that moment.
• 2:01:53
  Toliy: No, it doesn't know.
• 2:01:56
  Toliy: It doesn't know in that moment.
• 2:01:57
  Eldar: I not agree to this ego sleeping right now.
• 2:02:00
  Eldar: Yeah, the ego sleeping, you're yo.
• 2:02:02
  Toliy: Yeah, until you get into the moment when that's delivered to you.
• 2:02:05
  Toliy: Yes, your ego's like what the fuck why I don't need this correct.
• 2:02:10
  Toliy: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:02:13
  Toliy: Yeah, that's also why I think that when I went, when way, you said that I, uh, I, I think this was like two or three particles for you where, where I, where, where I caught you and like the things that you do, right, I feel like you could say that out loud a hundred times, that, like this is what you're consciously doing and you'll never get caught like live in the moment.
• 2:02:35
  Toliy: No, do you remember?
• 2:02:39
  Toliy: I like, like, I said like when we were talking about Tommy.
• 2:02:42
  Toliy: Yeah and what you did in that example and what you do in general to people.
• 2:02:45
  Toliy: Yes, yes, did you say.
• 2:02:47
  Toliy: Yeah, you are you yeah you understood my, my process.
• 2:02:50
  Toliy: Yes, and I'm saying that.
• 2:02:52
  Toliy: You could say that out loud A thousand times, yeah, right, and in the moment, that person Will always, they won't, they'll never remember it.
• 2:03:02
  Toliy: They'll never hear it.
• 2:03:03
  Eldar: No because they want the cheese.
• 2:03:04
  Eldar: Correct, they have attachment.
• 2:03:06
  Toliy: Yes, that's correct.
• 2:03:07
  Toliy: Yeah, so no matter how much you yell, I like yo.
• 2:03:09
  Toliy: This is what I'm doing to you, and this is what I'm doing.
• 2:03:12
  Eldar: However, it doesn't matter the interesting part is when they're finally conscious, when they got hurt, they come back.
• 2:03:18
  Eldar: The memory is still there of me saying it, and that's when I'll wave that card and say, hey, we're gonna be saying this.
• 2:03:25
  Eldar: And they're like you, right, you did see it.
• 2:03:30
  Eldar: That's the humbling experience.
• 2:03:33
  Eldar: Yeah, it's the humbling experience.
• 2:03:37
  Eldar: Yeah, that's the approach.
• 2:03:38
  Eldar: You, you, you caught me spot on.
• 2:03:41
  Eldar: That's how exactly you have to give everything, up until a point where the person's like I don't have an argument anymore.
• 2:03:47
  Eldar: And now I remember what you were saying.
• 2:03:49
  Eldar: Now you have to be receptive, and that's what I'm after.
• 2:03:54
  Eldar: Yeah, I think that's what you're after, and that's what Mike's after.
• 2:03:57
  Eldar: I think everybody's after, like I said, receptiveness to understand one another and be on the same page, because being on the same page Is the essence of being human.
• 2:04:09
  Toliy: Yeah, like I feel like I don't know how to act when I know they're another individual and the moment is lying to them.
• 2:04:16
  Mike: So, yeah, I don't know, like I don't know how to play around that, but like it's almost like you're trying to appoint yourself like some, something like that you supposed to Like yeah, I don't know how to explain it, but like you feel like it's your job to do this.
• 2:04:35
  Eldar: Yeah, why do you?
• 2:04:37
  Mike: why again?
• 2:04:37
  Mike: Why don't you respect the?
• 2:04:38
  Eldar: process.
• 2:04:40
  Toliy: That's the same question.
• 2:04:41
  Toliy: No, no, see, I feel like I do respect the process and saying that I don't need it to work right now.
• 2:04:47
  Eldar: Yeah, but nonetheless you hit the first, yeah you hear you have feelings towards and you hit the person over the head with it.
• 2:04:54
  Toliy: See, I have feelings of it towards.
• 2:04:55
  Eldar: so sometimes I know, no, no, no, no, I think you've gotten really better and I think that you're a lot of times when we have certain situations and I see you paying attention and you're seeing like yo, like what's happening here, and then you're like you, I know you withhold, yeah, and you're like, oh shit, shit about to hit the fan and you really paying attention to the fucking scenario yeah, 100%, you've gotten better.
• 2:05:15
  Eldar: Yeah, but nonetheless, I think ultimately, push, come to shop.
• 2:05:20
  Eldar: There's certain sensitive things, your family and all that stuff.
• 2:05:22
  Eldar: You fall fold.
• 2:05:27
  Toliy: Yeah, and some things, yeah, yeah.
• 2:05:28
  Eldar: I'm sorry, yeah, um.
• 2:05:29
  Toliy: Yeah, um, why do I do it Um?
• 2:05:38
  Eldar: Human condition, like you said.
• 2:05:41
  Toliy: Yeah, I just feel like I'm not okay with that, you're not okay with what.
• 2:05:45
  Mike: I'm not okay with the human condition.
• 2:05:47
  Eldar: No, because human condition mic is ever evolving.
• 2:05:51
  Eldar: Totally is not the totally that he was 10 years ago.
• 2:05:55
  Eldar: Mike that I know 10 years ago is not the same Mike I talked about this last episode, the flip-flopper Mike about Jim and not being consistent about Taking care of themselves, is not the fucking guy that I used to know.
• 2:06:08
  Eldar: That guy committed suicide a long time.
• 2:06:10
  Toliy: Yeah, I would definitely say you're probably close to flip-flopper and Jim than Mike is now.
• 2:06:13
  Toliy: There you go.
• 2:06:14
  Toliy: We're just a crazy to think correct compared to how it was before.
• 2:06:17
  Mike: But the thing is but the but.
• 2:06:19
  Mike: You're right, I agree with you, but also you may have, or we may have.
• 2:06:24
  Mike: We as people evolve in certain areas, yeah, but not at all at the same time and others, so I may have become not a gym guy, yeah, but I have maybe no longer the running guy, for example, like right or whatever, like I don't know.
• 2:06:36
  Mike: I just couldn't think of a better example.
• 2:06:38
  Mike: But we evolve in some areas, but not all, so that?
• 2:06:41
  Mike: So that's why, yes, I agree, the human condition is not an excuse.
• 2:06:45
  Mike: Yeah but you can't solve all your problems in one.
• 2:06:48
  Toliy: Um, no, well, no, I think it's okay to to acknowledge what your problems are.
• 2:06:52
  Toliy: I just feel like when I hear the word human condition used, I I do think that it's used as like a Crutch excuse.
• 2:06:58
  Toliy: Yes, yeah that that's what I was saying when you were saying it, like I was disagreeing with it, because, like, I feel like the way that you're talking about is that, like you are lesser than what you can Be and I think that you could be more than what you view in the moment as like no, no, that's just human condition.
• 2:07:16
  Mike: Like, like the way that you're the thing, is yeah, sure, but the my thing is then okay, then what are you gonna do about it?
• 2:07:21
  Mike: You can talk about this.
• 2:07:24
  Toliy: Well, no, you can acknowledge that you have certain issues or problems, but I don't think that you need to call it Human, human condition, because I think that that will condition an excuse for you to not be able to Overcome something.
• 2:07:36
  Toliy: Yeah, if I use that excuse, I mean no, I think, if you use it enough, there are people out there and you and you hear people the time like it just says what it is.
• 2:07:46
  Toliy: This is like you know.
• 2:07:47
  Toliy: It can get, it can roll.
• 2:07:50
  Mike: It as like I'm.
• 2:07:51
  Mike: I'm not gonna do it, I'm using it.
• 2:07:53
  Mike: I'm not there yet.
• 2:07:55
  Eldar: No, I know the way that you know no before like before I know what he's talking about, and before maybe you had a closed end the thing.
• 2:08:01
  Eldar: But now you reiterated and changed.
• 2:08:03
  Eldar: He's saying look for now, yeah this might be what it is.
• 2:08:06
  Toliy: Yeah, when you started using it yeah, you were the way that you were saying.
• 2:08:10
  Toliy: It was like this is an excuse.
• 2:08:12
  Mike: But I'm saying no point during today's conversation that I feel like the human condition is huge.
• 2:08:16
  Mike: I just felt like this part of our process we cannot solve everything at once.
• 2:08:20
  Toliy: Yeah, so there's a progression with that.
• 2:08:21
  Toliy: I agree with that.
• 2:08:22
  Toliy: Yeah, I'm just saying the way that you were using it.
• 2:08:25
  Toliy: When you were talking, it sounded like you were using it as an excuse.
• 2:08:29
  Mike: No, no, no no, for in our little circle I don't mean at all like that.
• 2:08:33
  Mike: I mean is that there's a progression.
• 2:08:35
  Mike: We cannot solve everything at once.
• 2:08:37
  Mike: There's steps.
• 2:08:37
  Mike: No, and I definitely agree with that.
• 2:08:39
  Toliy: There's a process, yeah, but I just don't think that we need to call that the the human, like um condition, because I feel like by calling it the human condition, it removes the need to discuss of like what it actually is, because it just can be blanket it.
• 2:08:54
  Mike: Together.
• 2:08:55
  Mike: Human condition.
• 2:08:55
  Mike: We shouldn't fix it.
• 2:08:56
  Mike: No, I'm not.
• 2:08:56
  Mike: Yeah.
• 2:08:57
  Toliy: I'm understanding that, like yo, we all have different types of problems and they just are problem.
• 2:09:01
  Eldar: I'm telling you right now.
• 2:09:02
  Eldar: I don't think I'm gonna call what it is.
• 2:09:04
  Eldar: Yeah, okay, you're gonna like this.
• 2:09:05
  Eldar: Mike is lazy with his words and that's an area.
• 2:09:10
  Eldar: Yeah, sometimes you're lazy with your words.
• 2:09:13
  Eldar: Sure, you know what I'm saying.
• 2:09:14
  Eldar: I know, I know what he's trying to say.
• 2:09:16
  Eldar: But if, okay, if you're trying to say a general statement, like Mike is saying, sometimes For a person who is into semantics and like details, it's gonna be a problem and I I'm going to that too.
• 2:09:28
  Eldar: I'm going to the details.
• 2:09:29
  Eldar: So a lot of times I correct you and say yo, be careful with using it the way you're using it, because you're not actually Conveying the actual messages.
• 2:09:35
  Eldar: You're trying to say Be, don't be as lazy as you are and actually explain yourself properly.
• 2:09:42
  Eldar: This is very important.
• 2:09:43
  Toliy: Yeah, the last time I can remember example that I guess with, with, when Mike said it, when he said, when the the realization he had when you went to that to go hang out with that girl, he said, like I went there and I and like he, he, like that moment he realized like, like everything.
• 2:09:57
  Toliy: And I think that you corrected him on that podcast.
• 2:09:59
  Toliy: He said, no, it was a buildup of everything.
• 2:10:01
  Toliy: Yeah, that led to that like a moment in that, but like again, the way that it sounds is like the way you're saying that like nothing important happened before this huge moment happened and then this happened.
• 2:10:12
  Mike: It's not what I meant, but it's actually what it sounds like.
• 2:10:14
  Eldar: Yeah, see, that's why he's being lazy with his words.
• 2:10:16
  Eldar: Yeah, I've been calling him out on that.
• 2:10:18
  Eldar: Yeah, you got to be careful a little bit and take your time to express what you actually mean and say so we can understand it, because we know the the backstory.
• 2:10:27
  Toliy: Yeah, yeah, no, no, I agree with that.
• 2:10:29
  Toliy: But, for example, in that example I felt like I acted how I would typically would act and I did feel some tension from Mike.
• 2:10:35
  Toliy: I definitely feel like he did not like what I was saying questioning.
• 2:10:38
  Toliy: Yeah, but I feel like I mean we were able to come him around in Conversation there.
• 2:10:44
  Toliy: I do think on bigger, on like more grandiose, bigger top topics.
• 2:10:49
  Eldar: Well, no, no, no, but let's not minimize this topic totally.
• 2:10:52
  Eldar: I think this is a very big topic.
• 2:10:54
  Toliy: Oh, yeah, well, yeah, yeah, sure, I'm just saying the specific thing that happened, yeah, was not a grandiose like a thing, but but the general topic of doing this In in various, like in all different types of things is a grandiose thing.
• 2:11:06
  Eldar: Mm-hmm, yeah, and I think that you guys, you, guys did a really good, good, good thing or a good job at taking the small little thing that was P sounded like it was nothing, but you guys turning into something very big and I think Communication, friendship, trust, understanding, you know, and all this other stuff that came out, came up from this.
• 2:11:27
  Eldar: This is.
• 2:11:28
  Eldar: I think this was awesome.
• 2:11:29
  Eldar: Yeah, you know what I'm saying, so don't under, don't shoot it down to say it was a small thing.
• 2:11:34
  Toliy: No, no, no, no.
• 2:11:35
  Toliy: I was talking about the specific example.
• 2:11:37
  Eldar: Oh, I was taking the back from where you mentioned.
• 2:11:39
  Toliy: No, no, I was talking about the specific example of what happened, of that, like, like I, I felt like I was being myself and calling out Mike for what he was saying, right, oh, and I felt tension from him of being upset for me saying this.
• 2:11:52
  Eldar: The what did we get?
• 2:11:53
  Eldar: Did we get anywhere?
• 2:11:54
  Eldar: He the start was him asking you a question.
• 2:11:57
  Eldar: You are looting, answering it and you will be in a slippery eel.
• 2:12:02
  Eldar: You have reasons why you, being slippery eel, he actually wants.
• 2:12:05
  Eldar: Do you still want to have actual answers or no, or you don't care?
• 2:12:11
  Toliy: Like I want them when the other person wants them, you're making so it's very, yeah, it's very like when I feel that the person like, like they don't really want it.
• 2:12:21
  Toliy: Yeah then, then, um, then, it doesn't matter to me.
• 2:12:25
  Eldar: Why is that what?
• 2:12:26
  Eldar: Why is that?
• 2:12:30
  Toliy: Like you're, the other person doesn't have interest in Having a conversation with me or doing but again, where is the interest?
• 2:12:38
  Eldar: Where's the interest Come from?
• 2:12:40
  Eldar: I think, a true friendship you have a genuine interest.
• 2:12:44
  Mike: That's the good stuff in your life, the thing that you're working on the stuff, stuff yeah the good, the bad, everything you want to share with your friend if you have a good friendship.
• 2:12:56
  Eldar: Yeah yeah, but but then a good for does a good friendship a warrant, or it has an expectation that the other person will support them In the journey, in the journey.
• 2:13:11
  Mike: I mean, yeah, it does.
• 2:13:12
  Mike: I think I think it's a little bit different.
• 2:13:18
  Mike: Or maybe the understanding or friendship is different, like I think we have a friendship, but I think it's a little bit different, because me and you I'm talking about like we're friends, but you also you're helping me as like I guess I don't know.
• 2:13:39
  Mike: Is it mentoring, is it like I don't know how to use the right word here, but it's like you're the teacher.
• 2:13:44
  Mike: I'm a student here.
• 2:13:45
  Mike: So it's not just a friendship, friendship where we just like bond over fucking whatever but it's more like a role of like I'm trying to learning and I'm asking you to teach me.
• 2:13:55
  Eldar: I'm not sure if I perceive it the same way.
• 2:13:57
  Eldar: I perceive it more of a friendship where I just happen to be competent in this area and I share it because I'm more competent, sure.
• 2:14:05
  Mike: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:14:07
  Eldar: But there's plenty of places where you're competent, you're given to me and I'm not competent and I like that.
• 2:14:12
  Eldar: You know what I mean.
• 2:14:13
  Eldar: So I think there's always an exchange that goes on back and forth.
• 2:14:17
  Mike: You know what I'm saying Well that's what I was saying, doc Ross, and we have to define the word for friendship, because I think the way you look at it, and I think the way I look at it too, I agree with you.
• 2:14:25
  Eldar: I don't see you as like people, as a like, a mentee or mentor here.
• 2:14:29
  Mike: But in a way I, in a way it is it could be look like that is that in a specific thing In the way that people would look at it from outside they might like what?
• 2:14:39
  Eldar: Let me tell you this when it comes to like accounting, for example, right or other things of that nature, just that comes to my example.
• 2:14:46
  Eldar: You, my mentor, I don't know that stuff, the finance stuff.
• 2:14:51
  Eldar: You know what I mean and those particulars.
• 2:14:55
  Eldar: You know that I feel like you mentoring me and I'm, but then again I also know that you're doing it because you're also my friend, but I'm appointing you at that moment because you have more knowledge than me in that.
• 2:15:06
  Eldar: And the same thing goes for me when it comes to like psychology or philosophy, or mental health.
• 2:15:12
  Mike: I think that's probably the more See the thing is definition that you're using and I'm using.
• 2:15:16
  Mike: I don't think it's traditional where.
• 2:15:18
  Mike: That's why I wanted to put that in, because I think people will say, oh, what's?
• 2:15:23
  Mike: You guys are friends, but I don't consider this like a friendship, as 99% of the publishing would say oh, we're friends, but I don't think a lot of friends have this kind of relationship where we help each other out genuinely in this, in this kind of like thing journey, life journey.
• 2:15:40
  Mike: Yeah, where most friendships are.
• 2:15:41
  Mike: Just like you know, they're just very strange.
• 2:15:44
  Eldar: They're very strange Very strange, yeah, strange.
• 2:15:47
  Mike: That's why, like when we're using that word you know I thought it was you know we needed to kind of actually say what a real friendship looks like, right, well, we help each other because our friends want to help you grow stuff like that.
• 2:15:59
  Eldar: Yeah, just like I want you to succeed in a specific thing, you want me to succeed in a specific thing, If you have more knowledge in it, you'll do your best by me and I'll do my best by you, and that's it Right.
• 2:16:09
  Eldar: That's no more than anything.
• 2:16:10
  Eldar: Like what comes easy to you I'm grateful for and what comes to me easy to me you're grateful for, and like I think that's the relationship, that's what it is.
• 2:16:20
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying.
• 2:16:21
  Eldar: Like you know, like shit, like there's so many examples of that.
• 2:16:29
  Mike: But I think it's just the non-traditional like okay with, with described like a.
• 2:16:33
  Mike: When you use that word, friendship, I think people won't look at it that way.
• 2:16:36
  Eldar: Okay, but listen, I personally think I'm getting it right.
• 2:16:40
  Mike: For everybody else, I think so.
• 2:16:42
  Eldar: I can only speak for myself.
• 2:16:44
  Mike: Yeah, no, I agree, I think the part, the part, the good friendship is that you help each other out to live better lives.
• 2:16:49
  Mike: Have your life.
• 2:16:50
  Eldar: Yeah, yeah, you know yeah, and I think you use each other's competencies.
• 2:16:54
  Eldar: You give and you take, you give and you take, you give and you take, and whichever it is, it doesn't mean one is bigger than the other.
• 2:17:00
  Eldar: It's just what it is, yeah.
• 2:17:03
  Toliy: Like I said, if it comes.
• 2:17:04
  Eldar: One thing is comes easy to me.
• 2:17:06
  Eldar: The one thing that doesn't come easy to you and vice versa.
• 2:17:09
  Eldar: We help each other.
• 2:17:10
  Eldar: That's great, totally.
• 2:17:11
  Eldar: Doesn't know how to fucking hammer a nail Comes easy to me, like what the fuck we're talking about.
• 2:17:16
  Eldar: To him, it's great help.
• 2:17:17
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying.
• 2:17:18
  Eldar: For him to do a sales call, it comes much easier than me, for example.
• 2:17:22
  Eldar: It's like it's it's.
• 2:17:23
  Eldar: It's an exchange which is understood.
• 2:17:26
  Eldar: Like you guys say, that's not spoken about.
• 2:17:29
  Eldar: You know what I mean.
• 2:17:30
  Eldar: So you know, like his easy stuff is a 10 to me, right, and my hard stuff is a one to him, and it's like an exchange, right, you know what I mean?
• 2:17:46
  Eldar: Like hammering a nail for him.
• 2:17:48
  Eldar: So somebody else was like wait a second, he's just hammering a nail.
• 2:17:50
  Eldar: It's like it's a fucking one.
• 2:17:51
  Eldar: No, it's a 10, but to him, hammering a nail is equivalent to doing a sales call, right, yeah, but let's you know what I'm saying.
• 2:18:03
  Mike: He's expertise is that yeah.
• 2:18:05
  Eldar: You know what I mean, so, like you know.
• 2:18:07
  Eldar: But some people will perceive it a different way, where it's like what are you talking about?
• 2:18:11
  Eldar: That's not friendship.
• 2:18:11
  Eldar: You know what I mean, but to me that's how I see it.
• 2:18:13
  Eldar: You know what I mean.
• 2:18:14
  Eldar: Well, and that's why I think certain things work and certain things don't.
• 2:18:19
  Eldar: All right, final thoughts.
• 2:18:21
  Eldar: I hear you, penny, I hear you.
• 2:18:23
  Eldar: What was the topic?
• 2:18:26
  Mike: The fucking Well, I think it started off of a secrecy, but yeah, I mean, it's definitely for sure, is a lot of.
• 2:18:37
  Mike: We touched a lot of stuff, probably like letting go of PTSD's right, updating your notes on yourself and updating your notes on other people.
• 2:18:52
  Mike: That's like an important kind of process.
• 2:18:55
  Mike: But yeah, I don't know.
• 2:19:01
  Mike: Final thoughts I don't really know.
• 2:19:04
  Eldar: Totally.
• 2:19:05
  Eldar: I think the final thoughts on this particular podcast is that the more we think about these things, the more we perceive it, the more that we share about our experiences, the more we understand one another and we have the ability or we start developing the ability to see things from other people's perspective, by understanding their pains, by understanding their struggles, by understanding why are they thinking the way they're thinking, why are they positioning themselves the way they do position.
• 2:19:38
  Eldar: And I think in these types of conversations, when you guys explain like hey, totally, it's like hey, why do you behave this way?
• 2:19:43
  Eldar: And you're like the way I behave this way is this way.
• 2:19:45
  Eldar: You know what I mean, because you guys have very good reasons as to why you do what you do.
• 2:19:51
  Eldar: And the more we speak about these things, the more I think we are cultivating compassion towards one another.
• 2:19:59
  Eldar: We're cultivating compassion towards not only ourselves but other people, because we start realizing that everyone has their own perspective.
• 2:20:07
  Eldar: Everyone's struggling with something that they are struggling with.
• 2:20:10
  Eldar: And sure, we might be on different stages of it all, but nonetheless we're struggling with some stuff.
• 2:20:17
  Eldar: We're trying to solve some problems.
• 2:20:18
  Eldar: You know totally might be solving anxiety, you might be solving impatience.
• 2:20:25
  Eldar: You know what I'm saying.
• 2:20:27
  Eldar: Like, nonetheless, you're solving it, trying to solve some stuff.
• 2:20:30
  Eldar: You know what I mean?
• 2:20:31
  Eldar: And I think that to make quick judgments about life and about people around you and stuff like that is to strip them away from being or having the ability to help you and that stuff.
• 2:20:45
  Mike: Yeah, that's part of also what I was thinking about.
• 2:20:47
  Eldar: Okay.
• 2:20:47
  Eldar: See, I touched it.
• 2:20:50
  Mike: Yeah, that was thinking about.
• 2:20:50
  Mike: That was taking a picture now.
• 2:20:52
  Eldar: Yeah.
• 2:20:53
  Mike: Part of the things that prevent me from also sharing is, you know, especially in the past is judging him for his incompetencies and saying, like yo, I can't come to him for help because he's not coming in this, and that's also like my own ego you know not and I think you have that ability of you know in where you know the person's strengths and you can come to them and ask them for help and the things they're strong and correct, and not hold them like not to not hold them, not hold their weaknesses against them, and come for the strength Correct.
• 2:21:27
  Eldar: That's all.
• 2:21:27
  Eldar: The point is to, like you said, try to get to a point where you have the ability to tap into exactly what you need and exactly what you want from that person's competencies, and not their incompetencies and highlight those things and allow them to be the best selves within that moment and time.
• 2:21:48
  Eldar: Yeah, you know what I mean, without having to hold them against their previous faults Right, because we all have them.
• 2:21:56
  Eldar: Yeah, you know what I'm saying, but I slowly say this we're trying to progress.
• 2:22:00
  Eldar: We should just think about that.
• 2:22:02
  Eldar: Trying to what the fuck?
• 2:22:05
  Eldar: Trying to progress?
• 2:22:05
  Eldar: You know?
• 2:22:07
  Eldar: That's my final thoughts, totally.
• 2:22:14
  Toliy: Yeah, no, it's good.
• 2:22:14
  Toliy: It's just hard to have final thoughts because there are so many different thoughts, thoughts, yeah, like so many different topics I think, that are important.
• 2:22:22
  Toliy: Like I think any of the things we spoke about today is probably its own podcast.
• 2:22:27
  Toliy: Yeah, you know, but we know what people want right now, so we're going to generalize it, yeah, a little bit.
• 2:22:36
  Toliy: Yeah, no, I definitely.
• 2:22:41
  Toliy: My final thoughts is I think we should continue the conversation.
• 2:22:44
  Eldar: Okay, so what would you say?
• 2:22:46
  Eldar: The next topic would be then, from this conversation.
• 2:22:48
  Eldar: The next topic yeah, based on what we talked about.
• 2:22:54
  Eldar: If you want to continue this conversation, what should it be?
• 2:22:59
  Toliy: I guess it just depends on which direction we want to go.
• 2:23:01
  Toliy: But I mean, when do you want to go?
• 2:23:03
  Eldar: What would you like to learn?
• 2:23:04
  Eldar: What would you like to?
• 2:23:05
  Toliy: discover.
• 2:23:05
  Mike: Yeah, we were questioning continuation, so what sparked?
• 2:23:07
  Toliy: that?
• 2:23:07
  Toliy: No, I just think that like it wasn't finished, you know.
• 2:23:11
  Eldar: But you like where it was going.
• 2:23:12
  Eldar: Yeah, okay, that's fair.
• 2:23:14
  Eldar: Yeah, that's fair, that's good.
• 2:23:16
  Toliy: Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of topics.
• 2:23:18
  Toliy: There's friendship, there's trust, perception, perception.
• 2:23:26
  Toliy: You know, yeah, those are probably three big ones.
• 2:23:32
  Toliy: What else?
• 2:23:33
  Toliy: Okay.
• 2:23:36
  Mike: I think a big one that I was just thinking about this week, but I didn't really get into it, but it was the thought that I had was, as you're progressing in the journey of self development, I mean, at least for me, one thing that I'm thinking about, you know, maybe thinking about, maybe, probably, if I look into it more, struggling with this, updating my notes on myself right, like, hey, I no longer identify with those behaviors or those PTSD's or those patterns of thinking or those qualities of dating my own notes on myself right In that process of developing.
• 2:24:19
  Mike: You know, I think that's important, that's something like, that's just something that came to mind.
• 2:24:27
  Mike: You know, I don't know how to like.
• 2:24:29
  Eldar: Why is it so important to you?
• 2:24:33
  Mike: Because, as we like him, I guess, as I'm like working on certain things and improving the quality of my life, there's certain things that I'm doing and then there's also byproducts of that.
• 2:24:45
  Mike: I think you know that you're not actively like.
• 2:24:49
  Mike: I don't know, I guess I'm not actually thinking about it, but I'm like hey, I leveled up in this in a way, right Not to sound ecotistical, but like I've leveled up in this, you like to say that word?
• 2:24:58
  Mike: Yeah that statement that leveled up no, yeah, I like so that you can draw confidence in doing the right things.
• 2:25:08
  Mike: I guess that's something that I would.
• 2:25:10
  Mike: We're talking about this recently.
• 2:25:11
  Mike: Is that like learning how to draw confidence in the things that you do and write like from the you know, because for over 30 years of our life well, not over 30, but for a very long time I've been doing things wrong.
• 2:25:24
  Eldar: Yeah.
• 2:25:25
  Mike: And now that I'm making the effort and I'm doing things the right way and trying to do things right, I have to like, I don't know if it's a race that I'm not, it's probably not a race, that person, from my memory, but like this, associated with that identity, you know, because I think there's some kind of connection there still you know like not that I want to do those behaviors.
• 2:25:47
  Eldar: You know you need a healthy dose of Alzheimer's to those things.
• 2:25:52
  Toliy: No, I mean, I view more of what he's saying.
• 2:25:54
  Toliy: Is that, like he doesn't, he, like he doesn't always understand in the moment the things that he actually leveled up on and he doesn't realize that, like, like, this is a thing, but maybe he still has in the back of the head of what it is.
• 2:26:10
  Eldar: He's operating out of that perception.
• 2:26:12
  Toliy: I don't know if it's operating, but maybe not realizing that like yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, doing that anymore.
• 2:26:17
  Toliy: Like why are you why?
• 2:26:18
  Mike: Yeah, maybe like you're saying like hey, I'm no longer that person, but like to make a statement like hey, I'm no longer that person.
• 2:26:24
  Mike: You know my actions don't line up with that person anymore.
• 2:26:27
  Mike: But actually like, I guess, putting the label on it like totally one.
• 2:26:31
  Eldar: Let me give you an example of how, what I remember about this specific thing.
• 2:26:37
  Eldar: Okay, when I fell in love with Catherine and I went to the pharmacy, right, I did once, right, and I took a little bit longer than I should probably inside of it, but it was just I was just shopping or looking for something, whatever, whatever.
• 2:26:50
  Eldar: And Catherine calls me and I pick up the phone and I'm like, oh, I'm just in this very rushed pace.
• 2:26:57
  Eldar: I'm like, oh, I'm just here.
• 2:26:58
  Eldar: I'm just I'm looking for the.
• 2:26:59
  Eldar: She's like I was wrong with you.
• 2:27:01
  Eldar: I'm like, what do you mean?
• 2:27:02
  Eldar: She goes.
• 2:27:03
  Eldar: I'm just asking if everything's okay, like you're good.
• 2:27:07
  Eldar: I'm like, yeah, everything's good.
• 2:27:08
  Eldar: And I was already giving her like a thousand words feel about what I'm doing.
• 2:27:14
  Mike: Where am I at who I'm with.
• 2:27:16
  Eldar: But I still associated with my previous unhealthy relationship with myself as to what I should be doing and how it should be acting.
• 2:27:26
  Mike: Yeah, you haven't said like hey, I'm no longer a criminal, I don't need to do this.
• 2:27:31
  Eldar: Listen.
• 2:27:31
  Eldar: First of all, I was never a criminal, on that one.
• 2:27:33
  Mike: No, no, you weren't no, but I'm saying for my example.
• 2:27:37
  Mike: I'm saying that I was never, a criminal against yourself.
• 2:27:40
  Eldar: Yeah, I was made up of them criminal.
• 2:27:41
  Mike: You were a criminal against yourself.
• 2:27:42
  Mike: Yeah, for sure, for sure.
• 2:27:43
  Mike: That's what I mean.
• 2:27:44
  Mike: I was never a criminal against myself and the other person.
• 2:27:48
  Eldar: But you see what happens, though.
• 2:27:50
  Eldar: Right, the people around you start recognizing you and be like yo, you're fucking idiot.
• 2:27:54
  Eldar: What's the matter with you?
• 2:27:55
  Eldar: Why are you acting this way?
• 2:27:56
  Eldar: So you have to rely on us, your friends, to tell you that calm the fuck down, you're not that guy anymore.
• 2:28:04
  Mike: Yeah, well, and this is part of the.
• 2:28:07
  Eldar: What we talked about, yeah, last week.
• 2:28:09
  Mike: Last week about the confidence that's right.
• 2:28:13
  Eldar: One way is to understand that you finally leveled up your character and you finally have different traits.
• 2:28:17
  Eldar: Is others, other people, especially close circles, to validate you and to say yo, mike is not a flip-flopper gym flip-flopper anymore.
• 2:28:26
  Toliy: But I think at Zab.
• 2:28:26
  Toliy: I also think that to me, what I hear this sounds like is some form of self-sabotage.
• 2:28:33
  Toliy: And what you're doing, yeah, I think that when you do things a particular way, you have conditioned outcomes as to what you typically have happens.
• 2:28:42
  Toliy: And I think, even if you level up on something, you might still have those conditioned outcomes.
• 2:28:47
  Toliy: Like I have a conditioned outcome at times where, like yo, if I'm doing well, like shit's gonna go bad, yeah.
• 2:28:52
  Mike: Right, yeah, you like to be doing well forever.
• 2:28:55
  Eldar: This is what I'm talking about, those things, those precondition like.
• 2:28:59
  Mike: PTSD's and.
• 2:29:01
  Mike: Yeah, like self-sabotaging.
• 2:29:02
  Mike: Self-sabotaging yeah, I can't put it into like a word to really say like in a good way.
• 2:29:07
  Eldar: Yeah.
• 2:29:08
  Mike: But I think you guys you know what I'm talking about.
• 2:29:09
  Mike: Yes, it's from that same thing, Like disassociating or maybe whatever it's conditioning.
• 2:29:16
  Toliy: Yeah it is conditioning, breaking that conditioning of finally saying this.
• 2:29:19
  Toliy: Like yo, you could do well and your actions are lining up, so you should continue to be doing well, that's right.
• 2:29:25
  Toliy: Not that you should just tumble down a hill, that's right.
• 2:29:27
  Toliy: That's right, you know yeah.
• 2:29:28
  Toliy: The mind goes to like this is what typically happens?
• 2:29:31
  Toliy: Yes, so therefore, it's going to happen.
• 2:29:33
  Mike: Do you think is there what to keep us humble, or it's a that's right?
• 2:29:37
  Eldar: Let's leave that for next week.
• 2:29:38
  Eldar: Okay, let's go to the next question.
• 2:29:40
  Eldar: Yeah, let's talk about self sabotage.
• 2:29:42
  Eldar: And why does this happen in the first place?
• 2:29:43
  Eldar: What's the reasoning behind it?
• 2:29:45
  Eldar: Okay, when it comes to our ego and our pride.
• 2:29:47
  Eldar: Okay.
• 2:29:48
  Eldar: All right, all right guys, great job.