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The Late Debate | 7 October · The Late Debate

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to The Late Debate.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Well, good evening and thanks for joining us on The
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Late Debate.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: I'm James McPherson with Jo Hildebrand and Lucy Zelich, who
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: is here despite an altercation on the road today.
• 0:14
  Speaker 3: Don't, don't.
• 0:15
  Speaker 4: Of all the things to happen to me, I got rear-ended, right,
• 0:19
  Speaker 4: so it's already stressful enough, but then I got out
• 0:21
  Speaker 4: to try and trade the usual details, licence, phone number,
• 0:25
  Speaker 4: and the bloke couldn't speak a.
• 0:26
  Speaker 5: Lick of English.
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: I wish I'd thought of that at my last accident.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Well, you can.
• 0:32
  Speaker 4: Legally, you can get away with it because it is
• 0:34
  Speaker 4: not a requirement in this country for you to have
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: English proficiency in order to obtain your driver's licence. Can
• 0:40
  Speaker 4: I just say what a disgrace that is when you
• 0:42
  Speaker 4: consider that you have to be able to read road rules,
• 0:45
  Speaker 4: you know, really adapt to environments, tunnel signs, the whole thing.
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: The word stop would have to be surely mandatory. Surely.
• 0:51
  Speaker 5: Well, it's clearly something that's implied.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: So how did you communicate? I mean, you've got to
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: get licence details, you've got to... you know, exchange all
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: of that information.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: How did you communicate?
• 1:00
  Speaker 5: He had to call someone to translate.
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:03
  Speaker 5: Literally, quite literally.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: What, he put them on the phone to talk to you?
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: Put them on the phone, put them on loudspeaker, had
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: it there and is saying, right, yes, we can provide
• 1:10
  Speaker 4: the details. I said, you need to ask him to
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: please produce his driver's licence because I kept saying it
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: and was just stonewalled, met with complete kind of, you know,..
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: just had no understanding.
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: I'll phone a friend.
• 1:22
  Speaker 5: Phone a.
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: All to just be able to communicate in this country, Johnson.
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: I've had a thing with a delivery person who delivered
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: the wrong order and I said, you know, sorry, this
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: wasn't a big deal, obviously, but this is actually not our...
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: Just absolutely nothing. But they pulled out an app. They
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: pulled out a translator app. And so we were able
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: to just communicate through that. I thought that's actually quite...
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: There you go.
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: But it raises that broader question, right? And people will
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: say I'm a hypocrite because I'm the daughter of immigrants.
• 1:52
  Speaker 4: But the day after my dad arrived, they went to
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: English classes. They actually learned the language.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: He must have passed a driving test.
• 1:59
  Speaker 5: Had to have. Clearly.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Do we now do driving tests in English?
• 2:02
  Speaker 5: We offer it in eight other languages.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: Ah.
• 2:05
  Speaker 5: So how does that make sense?
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: I'm sure you would have to be able to read
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: the signs. Like I can understand. I went driving in
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: Turkey and I'll tell you what. Reading signs is really important. No,
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: they're crazy. But you just realise how completely at a
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: loss you are.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: Driving signs are now sort of a stop sign is
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: a stop sign.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Everywhere, regardless of the lettering on it. A stop sign
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: looks like a stop sign.
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: But even just knowing, you know, where you were meant
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: to go, emerge ahead, you know, like even like I
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: would just think I'm not, you know, I'm happy for
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: people to speak whatever languages they want, but I would think,
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: The life-saving words are probably ones you should know.
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: Agreed.
• 2:43
  Speaker 5: But also, a car is like a weapon, right? So
• 2:46
  Speaker 5: if you can't understand.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: The way you drive.
• 2:48
  Speaker 5: Clearly.
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: Well, just by stopping because the person in front of
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: me stopped, I was put at risk today.
• 2:53
  Speaker 5: But anyway.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: We'd better get on with the show. Here's what's coming
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: up tonight.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: One nation promised to ban face coverings in Islamic schools
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: if elected to government. And Melbourne is voted the world's
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: friendliest city, with Sydney dropping out of the top ten...
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: And the Victorian Greens hold a press conference to announce
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: their new policy on crime. But here's the thing, not
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: a single journalist bothered to turn up for it.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Talk about why, although I think you can guess.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: In a moment, but first, Jews around the world were
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: in grieving today on what is the third anniversary of
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: the October 7 attacks. On this day, three years ago,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Hamas terrorists invaded Israel, murdered 1,200 Israelis and forced more
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: than 200, including little children, back into Gaza as hostages.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: That murderous attack sparked a brutal retaliation by Israel aimed
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: at rescuing hostages and killing the terrorists.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: Now, You'd think pro-Palestinian supporters.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Could at least give it a rest today on the
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: third anniversary of that brutal attack on Israel, you know,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: out of respect. Instead, they insisted on claiming the date
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: as their own, holding vigils in Sydney and in Melbourne
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: to denounce Israel. Organisers of the Melbourne gathering insisted it
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: would be respectful.
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: But we ask everybody, if you come support us, stick
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: by our rules.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: Our rules, we are calm. We don't talk to no
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: one at all.
• 4:18
  Speaker 6: We don't reiterate to anybody. If they try.
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: To attack us, we don't.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Of course, that doesn't mean it was appropriate in the
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: first place, and nor does it mean there weren't altercations.
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: Like I said, I don't take sides.
• 4:33
  Speaker 5: This is not Australia.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: It sounds like you're taking a side.
• 4:36
  Speaker 6: You take that side and.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: I went along to the gathering. Is it a gathering?
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: It was funny. They said, this is not a protest.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: I think because they didn't have a permit. But as
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: long as they.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Were standing statically still, then the police could not do anything.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: I went along to have a look. It wasn't that big.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: There were a few hundred people perhaps in Sydney and
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: it was pretty tame in that they didn't do the
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: normal chanting thing, et cetera.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you what I noticed though.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: The demographic of people there was predominantly, I would say,
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: Men and women in their 60s and 70s looked like
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: white Australian men and women in their 60s and 70s.
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: They're the worst.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: Woke boomers. Yeah, woke boomers.
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: Just can't stand them.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: I spoke to a couple of people. Well, actually, I
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: didn't actually. Well, I spoke to one person. The rest
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: of the people spoke to me. But one guy came
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: up and he was a very respectable, very articulate, intelligent
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: looking guy. who spent a good few minutes trying to
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: convince me that October 7 never actually happened.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: It was all actors.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: It was a major Hollywood production put on by the
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: Jews to fool the world. He was absolutely adamant that
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: that is what had happened, that there was no.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Real October 7 attack.
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: It makes sense, doesn't it? I mean, you know, can't
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: punch a hole in that. Right.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, I didn't even bother arguing with it.
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: It's just unbelievable.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: It's just so ludicrous.
• 6:00
  Speaker 5: But isn't that terrifying though, James?
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: It is scary when people believe. I mean, people believe
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: all sorts of things, but stuff like that.
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: When did critical thinking also go out the window? That's
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: something you could add to all of this, right? When
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: did people become so consumed by their own kind of
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: igloos of ideology and thought that they became so just
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: that they are so self-unaware now?
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: That's what hatred does, though, right? When you hate someone
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: or something so much... Because I think hatred is bad
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: for your own soul.
• 6:31
  Speaker 5: Of course.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: And eventually your own thinking becomes manipulated and I think
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: you become quite deceived in the end and you start
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: believing it.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: This guy really believed it.
• 6:40
  Speaker 5: That's what's scary, right?
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: It's like we were talking about yesterday, how in a
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: sort of godless world, ideology takes the place of religion
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: and you become as obsessed. Imagine just coming up with
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: something like this. Imagine this guy just sitting up at
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: night maybe he's diving down internet rabbit holes, maybe he
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: came up with it, you know, like a light bulb
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: over his head at three o'clock in the morning. But
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: just imagine the absolute, just the metres and metres of utter,
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: utter horseshit that you would have to wade through just
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: to get to this. And it just shows how incredibly one-eyed,
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: and again, like imagine, I said in my column on
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: this this week, it's like gate-crashing a stranger's funeral. Like
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: these guys... have stolen someone else's day of mourning and
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: hijacked it. Now I support freedom of speech. So I
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: think as long as they're not interfering, it should not
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: be illegal, but it does. But in fact, I want
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: to actually see who is that morally and intellectually bankrupt
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: and just crazily, almost pathologically extreme and ideological to actually
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: do that. And that That's how you met.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you follow the logic, right?
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: So I said to him, so you're telling me all
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: those Jewish people were all just pretending. They were just
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: trying to con the world. And I said to him,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: that would make them incredibly evil, would it not? I mean,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: if your theory is true, that would... And he sort
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: of balked at that because.
• 8:13
  Speaker 5: Did he?
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 8:14
  Speaker 5: Well, because now the thought.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: That's the logical conclusion. And that's why this is so pernicious.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: The other conversation I had was with Josh Lees, who
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: is the man bun... organizer of all these pro-Palestinian rallies
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: in Sydney.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: I saw him there.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: So I went up to him and introduced myself. He
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: didn't look that happy to see me.
• 8:31
  Speaker 5: I was about to say, how did that go?
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: But I was very nice.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: I said, look, you know, I saw you in the crowd.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: I thought I'd come up and say hello and at
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: least meet you. I said, can I ask you one question?
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: And he said, yeah, a little suspiciously. And I didn't interrogate.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: I literally asked like you just casually ask for the
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: people who say October 7 is not the appropriate day
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: to do this.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: Like, what do you say to that?
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: You know what he said? I don't want to talk
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: to you. He said, do you want to talk to
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: my media person? I said, well, I'm just, I thought
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: you would like have an opinion. He said, I have
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: an opinion, but you can talk to our media people.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: The media person never came to me, but I just
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: thought it was a bit rough not to answer.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: That's a pretty simple.
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: But again, he's just such a one-eyed ideologue. He's a
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: card carrying commie or a socialist. At least you can
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: split the split the hairs on the definitions. Um, And
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: you can almost see it. And again, I do encourage
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: you actually go and look in these protesters eyes and
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: it's almost like they're kind of dead. You can see
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: that they are so ideologically transfixed. It's almost as though
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: they've been brainwashed and you can see in their eyes
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: that they're almost acting under the influence of a kind
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: of hypnosis. Like seriously, and you would have seen it
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: with Josh's eyes. I look into them. I see them
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: all the time in the media, obviously. And there's, You know,
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: they're almost a bit like a sharks. They're kind of dead.
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: I know that's a bit sort of meta, but I
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: don't know. I've just been dealing with, and I was
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: among them when I was a student at Melbourne uni, but,
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: I just know these people and they're thinking so, so well.
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: And it is genuinely astonishing that they have sort of
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: captured the cultural or intellectual zeitgeist. It is just bonkers crazy.
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: Can I tell you what I found to be the
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: most astounding, right? And where this smacks of hypocrisy to me.
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: I mean, this is such a sad topic as well.
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: When I consider this on the face of everything, what
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: we're reflecting on, what this day means.
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: It's hideous.
• 10:25
  Speaker 5: To not just Jewish Australians, but also Australians.
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: More broadly who have felt very affected by from what's
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: going on overseas in the Middle East and has been
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: going on for decades, by the way. The thing that
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: makes me so sad and the hypocrisy that I pointed
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: to is that these people ironically are there to try
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: and establish this, you know, this movement for the Palestinians
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: on behalf of them, the lives lost and calling for
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: respect and all of these things. Yet you cannot respect
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: at a fundamental level because they're there for humanity, right?
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: But they cannot, at a basic human level, respect the
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: fact that lives have also been lost, right, and pay
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: their respects to them. Because if you're there for humanity,
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: then it shouldn't matter whose lives have been lost.
• 11:08
  Speaker 5: We should be concerned about the loss of all life.
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: It's not about Palestine. It's not about respect. It's not
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: about humanity. It is about the latest cause du jour.
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: And this one is anti-Israel and very quickly tapping into that.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: most horrible of ancient prejudices, anti-Jew. And it just rears
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: its head again and again. Speaking of which, if you
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: thought that was bad, a pro-Palestinian rally in Sydney is
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: being planned for October 11. The good news is it's
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: not October 7. The bad news is they're calling on
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: the government to delist Hamas and Hezbollah, saying they're not
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: actually terrorist organisations. This is just an absolute cracker. The
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: group is called Sydney Palestine Actions, which, of course, immediately
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: identifies it as a Marxist splinter group. And indeed, it
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: describes itself as part of the, quote, Trotskyist platform. It
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: opposes capitalism. Of course it does, because that's why you
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: have to be pro-Palestine, because anti-capitalism, because that just makes sense.
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: and is calling on supporters to, quote, join the anti-imperialist
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: bloc rally at Hyde Park this Sunday, October 11. Stand
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: with the resistance in Palestine, Iran. Lebanon. So they're on
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: the side of the Ayatollah as well. That's good to know.
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: Or are they on the side of the people who
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: are resisting the Ayatollah, who are the actual resistance? That's
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: difficult to know. That would put them on the side
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: of the Americans.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: But they're calling for the IRGC to be de-listed as
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: a terrorist organisation, so they're.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: Not the kind of people.
• 12:50
  Speaker 5: No, it is the Islamic Republic.
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: I know, they're just boggers. But I was going to say,
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: if they were actually on the side of the real
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: resistance in Iran against the IRG... they would be on
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: the side of the Americans who are, of course, capitalists.
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: How did we get here? Oh, they are bonkers.
• 13:04
  Speaker 5: It's a burning question for me.
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: Do you think this is good?
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: I need to know how we've reached this point in
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: society where we are in the moral sewer, right? You
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: talked about moral bankruptcy before, and we made this point
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: as we were talking earlier about every time you think,
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: how much lower can we go, we reach a new low.
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: But I don't know from here where we go, where
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: you have people calling for the delistment of these terrorist
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: groups everywhere including siding with the Islamic Republic of Iran.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: Have they not paid attention to what's happened to the
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: state of Iran and what they have exacted against their
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: own people?
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: I don't understand.
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: They've brutalised tens of thousands of them.
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: That was all put on by Hollywood, like James's friends.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: In answer to your question, how did we get here?
• 13:46
  Speaker 5: How, James?
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Gradually and then suddenly. Yeah, well.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: We're living in the suddenly. The line, it seems to me,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: between political expression... and support for a terrorist organisation in
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: this instance has got to.
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: Be very, very... But they're not terrorists, James. They're freedom fighters.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: You're just buying all the.
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: US capitalist, imperialist, mainstream media... I.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: Take your point, but if you are calling for Hamas
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: to be delisted from the terrorist organisation list that our
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: government has, that's awfully close to supporting a terror organisation,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: is it not?
• 14:24
  Speaker 5: Mm.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: And if you were a Jewish Australian, how would you
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: feel comfortable walking through Hyde Park knowing what Hamas did,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: knowing what Hezbollah do, knowing what the IRGC do?
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: If you're walking through a.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: Park where you've got hundreds of people calling for these
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: groups to be legitimised, and speaking of legitimised.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: does it.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Not legitimise in the minds of many people that, well,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: you know what, maybe Hamas aren't that bad, maybe Hezbollah
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: aren't that.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Maybe they aren't the resistance.
• 14:51
  Speaker 5: But I think.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: That's what people say. The Greens.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: And so should we be surprised if we end up
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: with another Bond guy?
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: Forget these guys. The Greens, Maureen Faruqi and David Shoebridge
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: wouldn't even answer a question... Good point... about whether Hamas
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: needed to be dismantled. They said, oh, no, that's a
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: matter for the Palestinian people, much like Josh Lee says, oh,
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: that's a matter for my publicist. Yeah, my media guy.
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: My socialist publicist.
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: LAUGHTER But, I mean, we're laughing in irony over all
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: of this, but at the end of the day, and
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: I understand why the Jewish Australian community feel the most affected,
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: but I think everyday Australians should feel very concerned by this, right?
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: If you've got people who are simping for terrorist groups
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: and calling for.
• 15:30
  Speaker 5: Their delistment, that is now... I spoke about the moral sewer.
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: It starts to make you question, who are my fellow Australians?
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: What country do I live in? Is this the kind
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: of country I want my children to grow up in?
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: Is this the kind of country I want to live in?
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: And it's a sad.
• 15:44
  Speaker 5: Reality for us when we reflect on the country that
• 15:46
  Speaker 5: we used to be and think about what we could
• 15:49
  Speaker 5: be to now where we are, right?
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: It's really devastating. Let's lighten things up. And it's always
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: fun to lighten things up when.
• 15:56
  Speaker 5: You're talking about the Greens.
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: They've come out swinging down in Victoria and proposed a
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: new series of crime laws that they would like to
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: see introduced. The only problem is nobody turned up. But
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: before we kind of dissect all of this, I want
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: to play you a quick grab of some of the
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: things that they're proposing.
• 16:15
  Speaker 5: We're here on Chapel Street. I'm here with the Greens
• 16:17
  Speaker 5: candidate for Paran, Angelica Di Camillo, and our MP, Kat Copsey,
• 16:20
  Speaker 5: and we're here to announce the Greens community safety policy.
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: For years, Labor and the Liberals.
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: Have competed for who can sound tougher in the Herald Sun,
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: but it's actually not keeping our community any safer. What
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: they're doing isn't working to prevent crime, and we need
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: to do something differently.
• 16:34
  Speaker 6: We're releasing our plan for a Zoran Mamdani-style Office of
• 16:37
  Speaker 6: Community Safety to properly coordinate investment in prevention across government.
• 16:41
  Speaker 6: It worked in New York and they've had their safest
• 16:44
  Speaker 6: summer on record.
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: We can do it here in Victoria.
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: Oh, yes, from government-backed grocery stores now to a Zoran
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: Mamdani plan to tackle crime.
• 16:53
  Speaker 5: It seems like they're just taking everything out of.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: I don't believe they're actually advertising. We're just stealing policy
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: from Zoran Mamdani. We've taken the most extreme American Democrat
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: and we're just.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: Aping all of his ideas.
• 17:05
  Speaker 5: Literally.
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: So, who you just saw there, that was Victorian Greens
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: leader Ellen Sandell. Now, on Tuesday morning, Spring Street reporters
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: were notified that this actual press conference was going to
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: take place, where the party was due to unveil its
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: crime policy.
• 17:20
  Speaker 5: The press release.
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: Gave a very vague overview of a plan to take
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: a whole-of-government, coordinated approach to crime prevention and crisis outreach.
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: And Sandell, her justice spokeswoman... Catherine Copsey and their Prahran candidate,
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: Angelica Di Camillo, were ready to go to the Prahran
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: town hall to deliver all of this.
• 17:40
  Speaker 5: But then no cameras or journalists turned up.
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: So they were forced to cancel. Can I just ask quickly, though,
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: why would they have not turned up, Joe?
• 17:48
  Speaker 5: We're journos. Why wouldn't they have gone to this announcement?
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: Oh, journos don't show up to stuff all the time.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: It's just if it doesn't... No, but if this is a...
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: Not important enough.
• 17:55
  Speaker 5: If this is a policy announcement.
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: And it's ahead of... Firstly, they would see it as
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: completely and utterly predictable because we all know what the Greens'
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: crime policy is going to be, which is none.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: They don't call it a crime policy.
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: That's right. And then also there is no way that
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: the Greens will be in a position after the next
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: Victorian election to influence any policy whatsoever because... It is
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: all but certain that One Nation and the Coalition will,
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: between them, have a majority in both houses and no
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: one will need to do any deals with the Greens,
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: even on the crossbenchers.
• 18:30
  Speaker 5: But would you not be going just for clicks?
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: You can laugh at it. I'm a busy guy, you know.
• 18:35
  Speaker 5: But can I be honest, though?
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: I'm quite stunned, actually, that nobody turned up, regardless of
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: how irrelevant you may think they are.
• 18:43
  Speaker 5: This election, to me, isn't done and dusted.
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: You feel very convinced that it's not going to go
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: in the way of the Labor Party's way, but I
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: don't think you can rule anything or anyone out.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: Well, thank you. I'm glad for your optimism.
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: I don't think they're personally relevant, and the polls are
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: showing that they're becoming less and less relevant.
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: But I am quite surprised.
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: I once wrote a story about a bunch of Indigenous
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: elders from remote and regional New South Wales who travelled...
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: women who were sick of the domestic violence and the
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: problems in their communities, they travelled all the way to
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: Canberra and met with Pauline Hanson because none of the
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: other politicians were taking the matter seriously enough. So you
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: think a bunch of Indigenous women meeting with Pauline Hanson
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: of One Nation fame, you'd think that would be a story,
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: wouldn't you?
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: That's a huge story.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: Not a single journo from the Canberra Press Gallery showed up.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: Was it promoted to the gallery?
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: It was dropped in the boxes. all the boxes.
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: But, OK, so Victoria's a very progressive state.
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: That was back when One Nation was also considered to
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: be irrelevant. But Victoria's a very progressive state, Joe.
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: Victoria's very progressive. So, to me, that nobody turned up,
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: I do find that a little surprising. James, you don't
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: think it's surprising? Take away your personal feelings about the Greens.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: No, I just think the Greens are irrelevant and newspapers
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: have limited resources and there was probably other things like
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: grass growing that day that they thought we really need
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: to cover this.
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: But just as a point, right, think about some of
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: the things that they're trying to do. I mean, they
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: unveiled it in that little clip there.
• 20:25
  Speaker 5: But one of the other.
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: Things that I found to be quite interesting is that
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: they would rather focus on youth diversion rather than imprisonment
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: and raise the age of criminal responsibility to 14.
• 20:36
  Speaker 5: And a lot of the funds that they're looking.
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: To direct into these spaces, you know, prevention, drug and alcohol,
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: more focuses on, obviously, the mental health aspect side of things.
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: We just defund the police and use all that money.
• 20:48
  Speaker 5: But the reality is.
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: The Victorian government, by the way, Victorian Labor, by their
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: own admission, have said that they've plundered like.
• 20:53
  Speaker 5: $ 6 billion.
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: into crime prevention, mental health services, drug and alcohol programs
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: since 2018. So what is it that the Greens are
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: going to be doing that's that different to what Labor
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: has already pledged to do?
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Well, they're loosening everything. Exactly.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: They want to repeal mandatory sentencing. Most Victorians would be
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: aghast at that. They want to limit police involvement in protests.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: I can't imagine why the Greens would want to do that.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: They want to limit the carriage of firearms in only
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: to police who have been especially trained. So your general
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: cops would not be allowed to carry a firearm. They
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: want to prohibit racial profiling and the arbitrary use of
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: racial descriptors among police.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: So you couldn't actually describe what a suspect looked like.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: Correct. And they want to review.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: I thought this was interesting. They want to review public
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: indecency offences. because they believe marginalised groups are discriminated against
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: when it comes to indecency offences. I'd love to unpick
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: what that means.
• 21:51
  Speaker 5: But this is the point, right?
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: The public deserve to know who these people are. And
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: how do we learn who they are? It's via the media.
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: I mean, we're having a conversation about it, but that
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: stuff is alarming.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: Trust me, it's fine. Every year I go to the
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: Greens drug policy on their website and I write a
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: story for the Daily Telegraph.
• 22:07
  Speaker 5: Well, you're doing it.
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: It always works. It always works.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Well, Jo, you were talking about One Nation not getting
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: coverage when a group of Indigenous women travelled all that
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: way to see Pauline Hanson. They're certainly getting coverage these days,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: and particularly with a new policy announced by their education spokeswoman,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Colleen Harkin, today, that One Nation would ban face coverings
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: in all schools, including Islamic schools. According to Colleen Harkin,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: that means no burqas... Is it niqabs?
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: Is that how you say it?
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: Niqabs.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: Niqabs.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Or other full face coverings in school. It's a simple
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: requirement that when a student walks through the school gate,
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: teachers and fellow students can see who they are speaking to,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: she said. She went on to say teachers should be
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: able to see the faces of the children they teach.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Students should be able to see one another's faces. Schools
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: should also be able to identify the students in their care. Now,
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: the ban would not apply to head scarves. One Nation
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: are saying it's important for identity purposes. It's also important
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: because how else can kids learn to communicate properly if
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: they can't see another child's face? And third, because removing
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: these facial coverings would say something positive and constructive about
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: the equality of women in Australian society. I was interested
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: to learn that the New South Wales Education Department has.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: A policy on these things.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: Where if a child is wearing a full face covering
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: in a school and there is a need to identify
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: who is this child, a female teacher, that's policy must
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: be called in to look and confirm the identity of
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: this child, which just amazes me that we have policies
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: around this stuff now in our schools. The Lebanese Muslim
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Association is outraged by the one nation policy. They put
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: out a statement today saying this is not an education policy.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: This is another attempt to single out Muslims. and turn
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: a tiny minority into a political issue? How many students
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: actually wear the niqab? How many teachers have said they
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: can't teach without it? Where is the problem that requires
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: a national ban?
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: I was going to say, that was my first question. Like,
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: I don't think I've seen, I live, you know, pretty
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: near to, well, I live in sort of the Paris
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: end of southwest Sydney. And so I see Muslim kids,
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: you know, All the time. I don't think I've ever
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: seen any actual student wearing a burqa or a niqab.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: They always wear the hijab, a lot of them, just
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: the scarf. But I don't think I've actually seen a
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: Muslim student with a face covering. So I've got to say,
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: I don't think many Australians would object to this. And
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: it seems pretty sensible to me. But I kind of
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: agree with the Lebanese Muslim Association that this is a
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: solution in search of a problem.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: If the Lebanese Muslim Association is saying this isn't an issue,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: then if you're making a law to ban what they're
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: saying is not an issue, why are they upset?
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: Because I think that they're saying that it's dog whistling,
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: that it's actually a non-issue. What One Nation is doing
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: is positioning itself as being anti-Muslim because they know that
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: that will attract a certain.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: Could I rephrase what you've said? Yeah.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: To me, I think One Nation are positioning themselves, and
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: I would be supportive of this, as a party who
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: are saying, we believe in religious freedom. Yep. but we
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: do not believe in unlimited religious freedom. And in this instance,
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: when it comes to Islam, and we should not have
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: unlimited religious freedom for any group. We're Christians, but we
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: would not believe that just Christians should be able to
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: do whatever they want because, well, I'm a Christian if
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: it's whatever. But effectively, One Nation are saying, When it
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: comes to Islam, there is a line.
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: Well, France has done it. France has banned burqa full stop.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: Well, Italy.
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: OK, so we're talking about at least 24 countries have
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: gone down the path of actually banning the burqa and
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: the niqab, right? So you have a lot of countries
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: which have gone the either full or the partial route.
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: Many of the countries that have gone down the partial
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: route have used areas like important institutions, government offices, universities
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: and schools.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: So.
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: So Egypt, for example, they are banned there in Egypt
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: at schools and universities. Syria, public and private universities. Morocco,
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: they in fact went to the length where they banned
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: the manufacturing, the purchase and the importation of the burqa,
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: citing security concerns. And in Europe, there have been two
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: challenges via the European Court of Human Rights, where in
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: both of those instances that they were challenged legally, the
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: court upheld the bans, citing, and I quote, the minimum
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: requirements of life in society known as le vivre ensemble.
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: The principle of living together is what it means. And
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: it basically unpacks the fact that they're concerned about public safety,
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: state secularism, gender equality and human dignity. And the irony
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: of all of this is that you then have organisations
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: like Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International coming out and
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: saying that this is an attack on these women.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: Fighting for the right for women to be oppressed.
• 27:06
  Speaker 5: Fighting for the right for women to be oppressed.
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: That's actually exactly how it should be categorised because what
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: they're now saying then is that these women will be
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: subject to further discrimination and because of these laws and
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: not being able to wear the niqab or the burqa,
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: they'll be kicked out of society and forced indoors because
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: of this. Isn't the issue then not with the society
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: that is encouraging gender equality but the religion.
• 27:27
  Speaker 5: That is pushing it?
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: I mean, when did the burqa and the niqab become
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: a symbol of freedom?
• 27:34
  Speaker 5: When?
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: Look, it's a very good point. I mean, I think
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: certainly there is obviously grounds for banning them in certain circumstances.
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: There was a case famously where... a um a woman
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: uh refused to allow a police officer to identify her
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: um after she was alleged to have committed an offense
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: a driving offense i think um and and so obviously
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: that is completely ridiculous but i have to say for
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: adults just in their private lives and you know in
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: their day-to-day lives like walking down the street or whatever
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: not just at home i think as a matter of
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: um religious freedom and indeed sort of freedom of expression.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: If you like, you should be able to wear whatever
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: you want. And if that includes covering a face, covering
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: your face when you're just out on the street, no problem.
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: If you want to get dressed up as Deadpool for
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: Wolverine and go and walk for Halloween, Freudian slip there, Deadpool, Wolverine,
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: great movie. You know, you should be able to do it.
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: So I don't, I just do not have a problem
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: with it if it's a fully grown adult who is
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: making a decision of their own free will. And again,
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: this might be someone raised in a conservative Muslim society
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: for whom... If you accept that the burqa is.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: A symbol of oppression against women, then how can you
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: say you should be able to.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: You'd be happy with anyone wearing it?
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: I was being a bit facetious when I said that. But, yes,
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: I think obviously the burqa has arisen in a society...
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: which is in a culture which is obviously got massive
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: issues with women. But if you are raised in that
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: society and you are a conservative Muslim woman who thinks
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: that this is all, you know, perfectly fine and you
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: know your place, just like there are There are conservative
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: women saying, no, I just want to be a housewife
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: now and I don't want to work. Oh, I think
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: that's really bad. That's a long bow. There is a
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: full-on movement out there.
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: You're talking to a conservative housewife who's only moonlighting here
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: and going back to her kids.
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: They're two different things. The ones who post videos online
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: and it's a big thing now that's going viral where
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: all they want to do is make sure that... their
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: dinner's ready for them.
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: Jo, these women aren't being lashed and beaten to death
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: if they're not wearing a niqab or a burqa.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: We don't know if... Come on! We don't know if
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: every woman who chooses to wear a burqa is being
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: lashed or beaten to death.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: Some women might come to Australia. For them, that's their culture, right?
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: But are we not entitled in this country to say
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: that's not our culture? And, in fact, we do not
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: want to promote that culture, even a small amount, even
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: with people who say we don't see anything wrong with it.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: As a community, we say we see something wrong with it.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: We don't want it here. So you're free to do
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: it elsewhere. Not here. Even if you don't see anything
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: wrong with it, we as a community do.
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: There are plenty of other women who do or don't
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: wear it.
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: I'm with you 1,000% on that. And to your point
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: earlier that you made, Joel, about, well, it's not really
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: a big deal. I don't know how many schools actually
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: have students wearing niqabs and burqas. Have a look at
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: what's going on in the UK right now, right? And
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: Pauline Hanson references the UK a lot. Of course, she
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: had a trip over there, highly controversial with Tommy Robinson,
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: et cetera, in some people's minds. But ultimately what she's
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: doing is trying to get ahead of the curve. She's
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: acknowledging that if this goes unchecked, that this is where
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: Australian culture and society could be headed. And the question
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: that needs to be posed, and I think it's a
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: very thoughtful one, is would you feel comfortable being surrounded
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: in a suburb if this was what you and your
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: children are being exposed to?
• 30:55
  Speaker 5: Would you, Joe?
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, a thousand percent.
• 30:58
  Speaker 5: You'd be absolutely fine with it. And if you.
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: I mean, the suburb I grew up in, Daniel, when
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: I go back there now, is... huge Muslim population. OK,
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: so then what if your.
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: Daughter was to go in and amongst that community and
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: was to be wearing just a very innocent pair of shorts,
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: she's a little girl in a T-shirt, and how she
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: would be viewed by that community who are instructing their
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: women to cover themselves so that they are not a
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: temptation to other men?
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: I'm sure it would be fine. If anyone harmed her,
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: I'd unleash hell.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: What if she decided to convert and she wanted to
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: wear it herself?
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: If it was genuinely her choice and she was an
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: adult and making an adult decision of her own volition...
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: That's her thing. I do not believe in telling people
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: what they can and can't think, what they can and
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: can't believe, and what they can and can't wear. And
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: I think the minute you do that, barring anything that
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: violates the law, if someone says, look, I'm a conservative Muslim,
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: I've worn this my whole life, for me, if I
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: was to take off my face covering and walk down
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: the street, it would be like someone else telling someone
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: else to take off all your clothes and walk down
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: the street and be fine with it.
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: It's very different when these women are being asked to
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: wear these garments so that they can effectively be erased
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: from society. Go and ask the women who burned the
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: burqas in 2001 after.
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: The Taliban overthrown. They should be entitled to burn the
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: burqa as well.
• 32:12
  Speaker 5: It's not a symbol of freedom or something worth defending.
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: It's not. It's up to the person who wants to
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: do it. But far more importantly is the question of
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: which is Australia's friendliest city? And Melbourne, believe it or not,
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: miserable old Melbourne, love you guys, my hometown, has been
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: crowned the world's friendliest city, while Sydney, my newly adopted home,
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: has dropped off the top 10. What is going on here, people?
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: So the top, the full list is one, Melbourne, as
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: we mentioned, in Australia, in case anyone wondered.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: I was wondering.
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: It's not Melbourne, Florida, where there is another one. Two
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: is Oporto, which is a chicken shop in Bondi. Three
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: is Seoul in South Korea, not to be confused with
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: North Korea. Very different levels of friendliness.
• 33:05
  Speaker 5: Who's confusing the two?
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: Four, Lisbon in Portugal. So Portugal's got two in the
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: top five. Amsterdam in the Netherlands. Well, we all know
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: why they're friendly. They're off their chops. They're buzzing on
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: the disco biscuits. Perth. Oh, that's nice in Australia. So
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: we've got another one in the top 10. Jaipur in India.
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: Amazing place. Buenos Aires, Argentina. I think that would be
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: because they've got Javier Bardem. What's the new guy in
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: Argentina name who's always pulling out the chainsaw?
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Javier Mollet.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: Javier Mollet. Sorry, not Javier Mollet.
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: And also Lionel Messi too, right, who just retired from
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: the Argentinian national team.
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: I'm more of a Ronaldo guy.
• 33:43
  Speaker 5: Boo.
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, sorry.
• 33:45
  Speaker 5: Carry on.
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: Bangkok, Thailand. My family's actually going there this January to Thailand.
• 33:53
  Speaker 5: Holiday?
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: I hope they're coming back. Oh, God.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: I finished the list.
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: I presume it's not for good, but now that you've
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: mentioned it, I probably checked.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: So let me ask you both, Cape Town is number 10.
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: Cape Town in South Africa.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: Just to get this conversation back on track. Finally.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: Do we agree that Melbourne is the friendliest city in Australia?
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: Do you agree? No.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't have thought that.
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: No. I think it's Queensland, to be quite honest.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: North Queensland. North Queenslanders are the friendliest people in Australia.
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: Brisbane.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Brisbane too.
• 34:21
  Speaker 5: Just beautiful people.
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: Not according to Condé Nast.
• 34:23
  Speaker 5: Beautiful, very friendly, welcoming, chatty.
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: No, I don't, you know, I think it's like truckies
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: are often really friendly because they spend so much time.
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: on the road by themselves that, you know, when they
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: get to chat to someone else, at least this is
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: what I tell myself, I've never actually met one. But,
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: you know, people who have isolated jobs are often very
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: friendly because they get a chance to interact and they'd
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: really treasure it. I think Melbourne genuinely is the friendliest
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: city in Australia because it has so gone to absolute
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: pot for want of a... More family.
• 34:57
  Speaker 5: No, they're not.
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: Because SAC Newgate's latest mood of the nation report revealed
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: a couple of weeks ago showed the Victorians are the
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: nation's most pessimistic people.
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. They're miserable. And they're isolated.
• 35:09
  Speaker 5: No-one's friendly when they're... But they're friendly.
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: No-one's friendly when they're pessimistic and you're also living in
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: the home invasion and car theft capital of Australia.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: So they've narrocated in there.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: It's like, we'll all go down together.
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we're all in this.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: So they're pessimistic but friendly.
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: No, but they're friendly to other people. It's like they're
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: all in their... You know, they opened the front door
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: for the first time since 2019. Fastest growing debt in
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: the country too. Because COVID's coming and the burglars are
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: stealing their cars. And the crack of light comes up,
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: they go... Oh, my God, it's so good to see you.
• 35:36
  Speaker 5: No-one's friendly when your car's constantly being stolen and your
• 35:39
  Speaker 5: house is being broken into.
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: Like, Gollum's really friendly in Lord of the Rings.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: Just quickly, on the Yahoo website, when they were reporting
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: this story, they did their own poll. Which place in
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: Australia do you think is the least friendly, according to
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: the punters?
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: This should not be hard.
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: Sydney?
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: Canberra. Ah, very good, Canberra.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: Overwhelmingly was the least friendly city.
• 36:00
  Speaker 5: What does that say about me now?
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: On that note, we're going to go to a break.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: Stick around when we come back.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: We'll look at what's making headlines tomorrow, including the volunteer
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: who was sacked because he gave a fellow volunteer the
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: wrong kind of hamburger.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: That's next. Welcome back to the program.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: Let's take a look at what's making headlines tomorrow so
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: you get it all here first on The Late Debate.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: And we're going to start with the Adelaide advertiser, which
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: has got a great story on the front page.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: The headline reads, Burger Me, but I think, Joe, you're
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: supposed to say, Burger Me.
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Burger Me.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: As in, Bugger Me. How the hell did this happen?
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: A plant-based burger has upended the career of a 50-year-old
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: ambulance volunteer after a colleague rejected the meal because it
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: looked like meat. Decorated Pinaroo South Australia Ambulance Service volunteer
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: Robert Berlin, 70, has been stood down, prompting his 12
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: fellow volunteers to abandon their posts in support of him.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: Pinaroo is now being covered by volunteers from other areas.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: Here's what happened.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: Mr Berlin allegedly failed to provide a vegan meal to
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: a colleague. However, he says he offered a plant-based burger,
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: which the member rejected because it resembled meat. He's facing
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: a raft of other allegations, including that he banged on
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: the ambulance station roller door, scaring somebody.
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: What a character.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: And spoke aggressively to other volunteers. So he's being told
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: not to come within 100 metres of the ambulance station
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: or he will be trespassing.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: And there you go.
• 37:39
  Speaker 5: When did we become so soft?
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: Seriously? I love the fact that his 12 colleagues have
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: also stood down in support. I mean, that is solidarity, albeit,
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: you know, I mean, they're going to have to go
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: without pay, but they're all volunteers.
• 37:53
  Speaker 5: Well, they're volunteers, Joseph, so no, they're not.
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: They've really thought this one through. Front page. I just
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: can't wait to see how this story comes out. I
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: reckon there's just so much more to this.
• 38:03
  Speaker 5: Is there? How much worse can it get?
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know. Like, was it really
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: a plant... Don't get me wrong, I'm not on the
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: vegan side, but was it really a plant-based burger or
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: did he just say that afterwards?
• 38:16
  Speaker 5: It could be.
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: Was he going, I'll give the... You know, I'll give him,
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: I'll say it's plant-based, and then when he bites, I'll go, ha-ha,
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: you just ate a cow. Because that's what I would do.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: It must have been plant-based.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: Otherwise, he would be stood down for giving meat to
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: a vegan, which would be a terrible crime.
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: But that's the other thing. How is it his job
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: to feed vegans?
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: It's not like... Bring your own food, actually. It's not
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: like they're ducks and he's the only guy with bread.
• 38:40
  Speaker 5: But shouldn't that be the rule?
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: Like, if you're that specific about the kind of food
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: that you want to eat, shouldn't you be bringing that
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: yourself then?
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: Here's the other part of this story, right, that I
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: kind of skipped over. I mean, I read it, but...
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: He's been volunteering.
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: For 50 years.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it ends because of this.
• 38:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: And then the outrage over a bit of banging on
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: a door, it scared some people.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: Like, really?
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: Gee, you wouldn't want to put the ambulance sirens on,
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: would you?
• 39:05
  Speaker 5: Heaven forbid there's an actual fire.
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: Again, I just picture that as a kind of morning ritual. Oh,
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: we'll get him again.
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: Oh, man, crazy stuff. I tell you what, this world's
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: getting kooky and kooky.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: So we go from the headline in the advertiser, Joe,
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: burger me, to what's the Daily Telegraph saying?
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: To screw you, says the Daily Telegraph. Labor tells bureaucrats
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: to fix this mess, but the ATO says... Well, I've
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: already said it. The tax office is refusing to back
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: down on its controversial credit card ban, telling small business
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: leaders the decision will stand despite the government publicly demanding
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: it fix the problem. Small business minister Anne Arley delivered
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: the government's strongest criticism yet of the ATO's handling of
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: the policy, declaring businesses... should have been consulted before the
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: shock announcement. No shock, Sherlock. I do think they should
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: have been consulted and I think that the ATO needs
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: to continue to talk with them and find a way forward,
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: she told the ABC. Her intervention came after more than
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: 20 business organisations confronted the ATO on Wednesday over its
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: decision to stop accepting credit cards for tax payments after
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: November 30. I mean, do they want people to hate them?
• 40:17
  Speaker 5: That's what this feels like, to be quite honest.
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's the ATO. This is not the federal
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: government's doing. The ATO has just kind of gone rogue,
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: but the feds need to come in and fix it.
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: There you go.
• 40:25
  Speaker 5: Are they going to fix it, though?
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: It might take someone slightly more persuasive than Anne Arleigh.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: Why would they?
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: Because you're right, right?
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: We all hate the ATO, right?
• 40:36
  Speaker 5: Yep.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: So wouldn't it be a good thing for the government to,
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, they need all the help they can get.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: They need something to give to people.
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, sometimes I feel despite the best intentions and despite
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: the fact that this is in fact the best government
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: we've ever had, you just don't. You're just not feeling it.
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: I know. I just heard a thousand bricks being hurled
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: at a thousand TVs across the nation. But they get
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: lost in the weeds, I feel, a bit. Like they
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: sort of argue the toss. You know, some ATO bureaucrat
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: will say, oh, no, we had to do it because this,
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: this and this. And they go in the morning. Instead
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: of just being able to pull back and say, this
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: is ridiculous. Small businesses need cash flow. You can't expect
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: them to find thousands or tens of thousands of dollars,
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: you know, in liquidity. every time they need to pay
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: their tax bill, why make it even harder for them
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: when you've already kicked them in the nuts with CGT?
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: Well, because the ATO was saying that they didn't want
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: to absorb the cost themselves, right? Apparently the government thinks
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: that this is a great win for consumers, but they
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: also forget that there are other everyday Australians that own
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: businesses and that are on their knees at the moment
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: and that need their credit cards to actually be able
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: to use at the ATO or to pay things like
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: their rent every week.
• 41:41
  Speaker 5: I mean, it's just a circus act.
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: OK, let's have a look at the front page of
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: The Herald Sun, and this exclusive via Anthony Dowsley and
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: Carly Douglas.
• 41:50
  Speaker 5: Easy on kid crims. Victoria's rank-and-file cops.
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: Who've been fighting a wave of youth crime across the state,
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: have effectively been told to go easy on child offenders.
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: In a directive sent to Victoria police members and obtained
• 42:03
  Speaker 4: by The Herald Sun, officers have been instructed to apply,
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: and I quote, the least restrictive option that is appropriate
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: in the circumstances, end quote, including simply cautioning children. It
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: comes as the second phase of new laws introduced under
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: Youth Justice Act 2024 came into effect last week, promoting
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: a new warning and caution scheme, which could mean police
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: interactions with youth offenders are never recorded.
• 42:29
  Speaker 5: Crazy, crazy stuff, dare I say.
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: It really is. And obviously this is the sort of
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: stuff that has got Victoria into the problem. that it's
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: facing in the first place.
• 42:39
  Speaker 5: Is stuff like this a nail in the coffin for them, James,
• 42:41
  Speaker 5: ahead of the election?
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: Oh, I think there's so many nails in the coffin,
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: you wouldn't fit another nail in the coffin.
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: A coffin is basically all nails at this point.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: But I believe in giving police some discretion. Remember the
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: old days where police would exercise some discretion and depending
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: on the kid and if they knew them and I
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: know it was a different time, but you trusted police
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: officers to use their brain, do the right thing. But
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: mandating that they take the least, the most minimalist action
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: every time is robbing them of discretion and to not
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: record offences with young people. I mean, that's hardly going
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: to keep the community safe and help police in the
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: long term. Northern Territory News. Monster gets 10 years, but
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: maybe free in six. Child rapist jailed. A man's been
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: sentenced to 10 years prison. for raping a four year
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: old in an indigenous community in the greater Darwin region. Now,
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Nathaniel Farrell, 34, who is eligible for parole in six years,
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: has asked for protection amid fears that his.
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: Fellow inmates might attack him. And I can well imagine
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: why he's asking for that.
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: Very, very good point. Again, just the depth of the
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: problems that we're facing. You fight him here, no effing
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: woman's talking. Shock Fight Club tape reads the top banner
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: strap of the Oz, an exclusive by Paige Taylor, who
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: does a fantastic job covering Indigenous affairs. A director of
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: an Aboriginal corporation earning millions in government child protection has
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: contracts in Port Hedland, has been recorded giving orders at
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: a secluded fight club, quote unquote, where children watch and
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: a little girl films and cheers her father as he
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: repeatedly punches another man. Raylene Button is a high-profile face
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: of the Giuliardi Aboriginal Corporation, which has contracts with Commonwealth
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: government departments valued at $ 13. 16 million and has recently been
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: awarded additional work with the Cook Labor government as a
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: result of the child safety crisis in the Iron Ore
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: town of Port Hedland. In a video that initially circulated
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: among Aboriginal people in the Pilbara, Miss Button said, can
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: be heard, and again, I'm just shaking my head here,
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: can be heard setting the terms for fighting moments after
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: children are seen milling around. Ms Button confirmed to The
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: Australian on Wednesday that she was present for the confronting
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: scenes that she said were recorded five weeks ago at
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: Deepwater Reserve in South Hedland. I've just got nothing more
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: to say. No.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: I don't think there is anything more to say after that.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: We're going to go to a break when we come back.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: There was a wedding in Sydney last weekend. The weather
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: was terrible, but we'll show you the extraordinary lengths guests
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: went to keep the reception dry after this.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to the program. Lucy, you love a good wedding?
• 45:41
  Speaker 5: I am always down for love. I love a good wedding.
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: Of course, you always want it to go smoothly, beautifully,
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: bride happy, sun is shining, not.
• 45:51
  Speaker 5: a cloud in the sky, except when it goes like this.
• 46:19
  Speaker 5: Props to the.
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: Creativity from the guests, right? And I mean, we saw
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: crazy weather, that tornado in Ulladulla.
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: This was an actual wedding in Sydney during the storm.
• 46:27
  Speaker 5: In New South Wales, yes. And literally during the storm,
• 46:30
  Speaker 5: that's what guests thought to do.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, that could be like the worst thing possible,
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: but I love the way they're all cheering and barking
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: for each other and everyone's having a great time.
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: You'd never forget that.
• 46:39
  Speaker 4: I wanted to see the bride, though, because I could
• 46:41
  Speaker 4: imagine being in that situation as a bride.
• 46:43
  Speaker 5: You'd just be beside yourself.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: She's not cheering.
• 46:45
  Speaker 5: She's not cheering. No, she would have been in the
• 46:47
  Speaker 5: bathroom sobbing any money.
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: Look at the community coming together.
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: Both sides of the family all working in unison.
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: You know how rain is meant to be lucky on
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: your wedding day?
• 46:55
  Speaker 5: That's what they say.
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: Of course they have to say that because otherwise the
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: bride would never come out of the bedroom.
• 46:59
  Speaker 5: Beside herself.
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: But is hail lucky as well?
• 47:01
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: Well, maybe that's... Maybe that's even luckier.
• 47:05
  Speaker 5: Exactly. Exactly. Oh, gee.
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: Well, there was an oil tanker off the coast of
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: Russia that was not particularly lucky.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: It was hit by something.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: Some suspect a Ukrainian drone because this Liberian flagged tanker,
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: crewed by 23 Indian nationals, is believed to be part
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: of the Russian shadow fleet. which has been sanctioned by Ukraine,
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: running oil in spite of these sanctions. Ukraine have not
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: claimed responsibility for whatever has bombed this thing, but it's
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: caused an almighty fire, not to mention the plume of smoke.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: Russia closed beaches along the coastline. out of fears of
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: oil slicks and in respect of safety for swimmers. But
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: quite a spectacular fire, if you can call such a
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: thing spectacular. I should mention all 23 crew members safe.
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: That's right. And also, fortunately, the fire was quickly extinguished
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: by a bunch of wedding guests carrying buckets of rainwater.
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: I don't know how they actually got to... The Red Sea.
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: I haven't thought of that yet. But anyway.
• 48:14
  Speaker 5: Black Sea.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: A Russian tanker catches fire on your wedding day.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: It's good luck.
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly right. That's what it says. That's what it
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: says in the Women's Weekly Cookbook. Now, another thing that
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: it doesn't say in the Women's Weekly Cookbook is it's
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: getting out of control. A beautiful Himalayan bird is changing
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: its voice due to human activity, research shows. Isn't it
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: amazing what they can do with science now? This is
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: the monel. There's a picture of it there. It's a
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: very beautiful, brightly coloured pheasant, which is native to Himalayan
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: mountain forests. You might say it's a pleasant pheasant. It
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: has been, oh, it's also the state, I read here,
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: it's also the state of the Indian state of Atakarand.
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: Say it with confidence. Anyway, the monel is changing its
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: pitch to cut through human noise in a busy valley.
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: What a breakthrough for modern science.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: And with the pleasant pheasant, we end this episode of
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: The Late Debate.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: We'll be back tomorrow night. Here's the Rita Pennehy Show.