Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / "Mud Ride: A Messy Trip Through the Grunge Explosion"/Steve Turner & Adem Tepedelen [Episode 139]

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"Mud Ride: A Messy Trip Through the Grunge Explosion"/Steve Turner & Adem Tepedelen [Episode 139] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

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We're totally booked, and I think I'll leave you do you're reading Little Hands,
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It's time to rock and roll. Roll Down, We are totally booked.
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Welcome to book down Rock. It's the podcast for those about to read
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it out at bookedown rock dot com. You can also sign up for our
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email subscription list, so if there's a new episode video blog, you will
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get an email right away. Mud Honey Steve Turner and author Adam to pedal
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in or here to talk about Turner's brand new book, mud Ride, A
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Messy Trip through the Grunge Explosion. His book chronicles the birth and evolution of
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the Seattle grunge scene, from amateur skate parks and underground hardcore clubs to a
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worldwide phenomenon. Told by one of its founding fathers and the lead guitarist of
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legendary alternative rock band Mud Honey. Adam shares his experience working on the book
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with Steve and what the Seattle music scene was like in the early nineties.
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Steve has some great stories about his childhood friendship with Stone Gossard, his early
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days as member of the band Green River, the formation of Mud Honey,
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meeting Eddie Vetter, touring with Pearl Jam and Nirvana, why he declined the
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offer to join Nirvana in nineteen ninety, and how he created his classic super
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fuzz sound. A playlist of Green River, Mud Honey, and Steve Turner's
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solo work can be found in the show notes page. But first, let's
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hear from Steve Turner and Adam to Pedalan. This interview was recorded a little
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over a month ago, sometime around mid May, and we wanted to hold
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off on it until the book came out, which it is released on June
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thirteenth. Here we go, Here are Steve and Adam? All right,
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Hey, what's going on? Guys? Hey, there's an opening. How
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did you guys seem up for this project? What did you guys meet?
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We met like all good relationships via social media. I propositioned him via Instagram,
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I think, and then I just say, I want to write a
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book. You ever thought about writing a book? And apparently he had,
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so I uh, you know, we followed up via email, and this
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was older in the pandemic, so we conducted our business via zoom for you
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know, the next year and a half or so. We kind of start
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meeting a little bit and then got a got ourselves a book deal and then
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got down to doing the work. But I didn't we didn't meet in person
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until you know, well into this whole thing. Did we not meet in
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person twenty something years ago? I have no recollection. I don't think we
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actually did, no, because I mean I knew I obviously knew who you
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were from the Seattle music worlds. Yeah, and we should mention you have
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a long history as a rock journalist, and actually you write about a bunch
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of different topics, right, Yeah. I've kind of ping ponged around a
3:16
little bit professionally. Really, rock has been my main focus, the one
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thing I really wanted to write about. I started writing a fanzines in high
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school, but I was really mostly heavy metal focused at that point. But
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then as Steve mentioned, like when I graduated from college from the University of
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Oregon, I moved to Seattle nineteen ninety and I started working for the local
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music magazine called The Rocket there and so then I, yeah, I started,
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I'll kind of work my way up until I got to being be an
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editor there. Then I kind of got burned out in about nineteen ninety seven
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and for ninety eight or something that around there, and I just took other
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gigs, let's put it that way. And then I kind of came back
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around to writing about music in the early two thousands, but I was also,
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you know, trying to do this um as a freelancer, full time
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freelancer, and you can't really make a lot of money just writing music magazine
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for music magazine. So I started writing about wine and beer, travel on
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all kinds of stuff, and then, you know, just I've kind of
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played my strengths. And more recently though, I wanted to focus on writing
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books, which is how kind of got together with Steve on this, because
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I don't guess the way forward fully as far as making something. Yeah,
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we got a great one here, and no doubt a great forward in the
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book from Pearl Jam guitarist Stone Gossard, a longtime friend of yours, Steve
4:43
since nineteen eighty two while living in Seattle. You were born in Texas but
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moved to Seattle when you were two. So yeah, yeah, And what's
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interesting about your backstory is that you were introduced to music, particularly punk rock,
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through Skateboarder magazine and the band Divo. Yeah. Well, you know,
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I didn't really care about rock music as a kid. My dad had
5:03
a few records. I liked the Clancy Brothers, you know, Irish folk
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music lead Belly record. My mom had a Dory Previn record called On My
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Way to Wear, which I still think is one of the greatest records ever
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recorded. But you know, I didn't care about rock music, and it
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seems stupid. I had friends that were into kiss and stuff. I was
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like, really, this is dumb, you know. But as a skateboarder,
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we went from you know, listening to like terrible music like Ted Nugent
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at the half Pipe to suddenly Devo and Black Flag and stuff. Because some
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of the pros got into punk rock. So where the pros went, like
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Steve Oles and Dwayne Peters, Jay Adams, Jay Smith, we all followed
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and suddenly all the skateboarders were into punk rock and it really captured my imagination.
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I guess, you know, it didn't seem as stupid, and it
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was kids making some of the music. One of the second show I saw
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was well, the first show I saw was Devo, which was amazing,
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but the second show was Black Flag and a local band called Soldier opened and
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they were my age, and I guess thought that was amazing. I was
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like, what like kids playing I mean, arguably shitty music, but it
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was great shitty music. In the fall of eighty two, you meet Stone
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Gossard. An interesting dynamic between you and Stone in terms of musical tastes.
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When you meet him, you each had your own bands and music that you
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were into, and they differed. Yet you say you found some common musical
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ground eventually and that this would be a meaningful connection in many ways. Can
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you take us back to when you met Stone and how that musical connection would
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be meaningful. Well, when I met him, I was a senior.
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I went to a I basically flunked out of public school, and my parents
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paid for me to go to a kind of a hippie dippie private school called
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Northwest School for the Arts, Humanities, and Environment, which sounds fairly like
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what it is. This was a great school. But Stone was there,
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and he was a year younger than me, and he was a heavy metal
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asshole basically, you know, sarcastic and hilarious, and we became friends just
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over being sarcastic, I think, you know. And his main buddy at
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the school, Jeff Covell, was in my class and he was another heavy
7:15
metal dude, and they were hilarious and we became friends and we started hanging
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out after school. And you know, Stone has really good musical taste as
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far as hard rock goes. He turned me on to Alice Cooper band the
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first few records and Motorhead, two really great significant things in my life.
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And I turned him onto you know, southern California punk rock and hardcore,
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the more melodic stuff. He liked, social distortion, adolescence. He wasn't
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much for you know, void and things like that. But yeah, we
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kind of like cross pollinated, I guess. And then you know, we
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tried to have a band called the Ducky Boys at the end of my senior
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year and that didn't work because the singer refused to sing in front of us.
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He was embarrassed. Yeah that's funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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So I was like, ah, oh, well, but you know,
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it didn't matter because Jeff Covell was going off to college anyway. So I
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immediately joined with Alex Shelmway, who was a big part of the story too.
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He also was at Northwest School. I joined up with a band called
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spluy Numa with him for a couple of months, and then joined Mister Epp
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with Mark and a year later that or less than a year later, six
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months later, that fizzled out and we started Green River with Alex mark Stone
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and me and yeah, and you refer to it as the first real band
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right in the book. Pretty much, Yeah, we actually, I mean,
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mister Epp was awful, but great awful. I loved them before I
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was a member of the band. Limp Pritchards was, you know, not
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much better as far as like, you know, I loved Limp Pritchards and
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I think Dave had some amazing lyrics and stuff. But yeah, yeah,
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it was the first proper band that we tried to do that actually played songs.
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And it's interesting because your mindset was you didn't have any grand plans.
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It was just like, Okay, let's do it. Yeah, no,
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yeah. It took a few years until people actually started having plans for the
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future, and I still thought they were misguided and doomed to failure. But
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they, you know, Jeff and Stone obviously proved me very wrong. Yes,
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and they did. Okay, Adam unfamiliar were you with Steve's backstory prior
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to writing the book, Well, I mean I got into Green River early
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on. I was going to the University of Oregon in nineteen eighty five nineteen
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eighty nine in Eugene, Oregon, and I was reading this magazine called Metal
9:50
Forces. I read about Green River and an issue of that, which is
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kind of unlikely now, but at the time I didn't know any better.
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I just read about this cool Seattle band. Some of the names that they
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name checked in describing the music appealed to me. And so when Green River's
10:07
first EP came out, of course I went out and got it right away.
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So, you know, I've been pretty on top of and Green River
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became one of my favorite bands back then. I got the the Deep six
10:20
compilation that came out in eighty six, so I was just really invested and
10:24
interested in the Seattle music scene that was burgeoning at the time. I was
10:28
following it very closely, watching a subpop came out with all these early releases.
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I was getting all the early singles and stuff. So yeah, and
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I became a huge mud Honey fan, you know, I followed basically when
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Green Rivers split into Team mud Honey and Team Motherlove Bone Pearl Jam, I
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became largely Team mud Honey. I mean, I liked Motherlove Bone and Pearl
10:52
Jam, but I felt more connected and you know, more strongly about mud
10:58
Honey. So I definitely followed Steve's career and was a big Monhuney fan.
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And I saw them early on and many times afterwards. So yeah. I
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mean part of the reason why I propositioned Steve to do this is because I
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was a big fan. I mean, I thought that he would have a
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really interesting story, and I wanted to tell that story or help him tell
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that story. So yeah, I was a fan going way back, all
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the way back to the Green River days. Steve, you say you came
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across sixties garage rock around that time, and you say one of the best
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purchases you ever made was an album from a compilation series called Pebbles. Can
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you talk about that, how that music influenced your look and your sound?
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You know. I give Scott McCoy from Young Fresh Fellows a RM a lot
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of credit for this because he worked at Telephone Square record store in the University
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District in Seattle and there was a small little punk rock section and he would
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sneak in all these sixties garage records into the punk rock section, the Sonics
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and the Whalers and Paul Revere and the Raiders, all the Northwest classics stuff
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from the sixties, as well as compilations like the Pebbles stuff. And I
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think it was Pebbles number nine, volume nine, which I thought, like,
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it's volume nine, what the heck? You know? And I got
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it and it was just simple three chord teenagers rocking out, you know,
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sub Louie Louis songs, some with total fuzz and attitude, some more you
12:22
know, little boy with their pants around the ankles kind of stuff. But
12:26
U but I loved it, and it totally I already knew a little bit
12:31
of that music. The Seeds Pushing Too Hard was one of my favorite songs
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as a little kid. You know, a few things fee rock and roll
12:39
things made it through the Fancy Brothers, but it totally made sense to me
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that that's the exact same stuff as the teenage hardcore bands that I was into
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in eight nineteen eighty two as well. It was the same deal, gets
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a slightly different music, And by nineteen eighty three hardcore was starting to in
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my mind run its course. You can't go any faster at a certain point,
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you can't get any faster than Gang Green and like where Do You Go?
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And some other bands started popping up. The replacements were big to me.
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Sorry, Mafer got to take out the trash where there's elements of hardcore
13:20
but also elements of you know, rock and roll. I guess that was
13:24
missing from hardcore stuff. And Meat Puppets two came out, and I was
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a huge fan of the Meat Puppets already, but when Meat Puppets two came
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out, I like, go, okay, a whole another avenue to explore
13:35
here, which was because they kept getting compared to Neil Young's album Zooma so
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I went and Zuma, so you know, that got me going in other
13:45
directions, more psychedelic stuff as well. But the garage punk I still feel
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a real kinship with you know. It's funny. Actually, next week MEA
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Stone and Regan Hagar are going to record some garage rock. Nice. Let's
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see how it goes like we we have nothing planned, but we're going in
14:07
the studio. No promises, just but very cool. Yeah, what's that's
14:11
a little exclusive? What's Stone is gonna play? Is he gonna play a
14:16
guitar? Bass? Uh, we're not. We don't know. We we
14:20
have he set up a few guidelines of what to do kind of. I
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mean, you know, Stone's an odd duck. I'm assuming we'll both play
14:28
guitar and or bass, Regan will play drums and yeah, yeah, well
14:33
we'll see, we'll see what happens. But it's gonna be fun. That
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cool, very cool. And I think it was Jeff Amant that was the
14:39
big kiss fan. I think was in the first Green River show. You
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had the white face paint on you guys made quite the first impression on that
14:46
first Green River show. That was a weird one because I was still singing
14:50
two songs in the set and Mark was playing guitar on a couple of songs.
14:54
It's Mark's a genius, idiot, savant on the guitar, you know,
14:58
so I always wanted him playing guitar, just one of them as Fred
15:01
guy, you know, but you know, Green River evolved into that,
15:05
and I'm a terrible rock and roll singer, so you know, no worries
15:09
there was it At that first show, you guys played like in a complete
15:11
shit hole or what was that? Different? That was the second was the
15:16
great door that the first show was just at a kind of a loft space,
15:24
a cool, weird illegal like people were living there that they weren't supposed
15:28
to be living there kind of spot. I mean, it was the early
15:31
eighties, it didn't matter. But yeah, at cool spot, a little
15:35
back yard with a couple of trees in the backyard. You know, it
15:37
was kind of neat. Adam, do you remember your first Green River show?
15:41
Oddly enough, I didn't see them until the reunion because, as Steve
15:46
can attest, that Green River didn't tour much nor very successfully. Unfortunately,
15:52
they did happen to play in Eugene around the time of Dry as a Bone,
15:54
but I, unfortunately was out of town that weekend. I heard it
15:58
was a great show, but I did not see it. So um I
16:00
saw them. Yeah, one of the reunion shows in Seattle in two thousand
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and eight or something like that, when it was the three guitar line up
16:07
with Steve and and Bruce and Stone. What was that the Sunset show?
16:14
Did you see? It was the show Box? It was the show Box?
16:15
Oh okay with the Melvin's Yeah the Melvin's Yeah, okay cool? So
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um, but it was. It was really cool. Apt to say because
16:22
in a way I think that I got a better deal seeing them then because
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I got to see you know, I hear the some of the Steve Turner
16:30
era songs as well, and um, you know, seeing all three of
16:33
those guys, the guitar players on stage was really cool. So um,
16:37
no complaints. I was thrilled by that. Honestly, it was one of
16:41
the coolest reunions I think I've ever seen. So that was really fun to
16:45
do. I feel lucky that we got to do it, you know,
16:48
and we got everybody involved in it. It was fun going revisiting it all
16:52
together too. We realized some of the early demos that Alex wrote were actually
16:56
probably the best songs that we ever had. Steve. I remember I had
17:02
an author on who was a journalist structuring list in Seattle back in those days,
17:06
and he just talked about all the great venues to see shows, so
17:10
be great, not not like beautiful great. Some of them were, but
17:12
some of were just so beautifully shabby and run down that it was just the
17:15
perfect place to show. You know, what is it like now? How
17:18
much has it changed since then? Well? You know, I don't live
17:23
there, for one, and I don't I wouldn't be going out much if
17:26
I did live there anyway. But the Crocodile has moved and it's still a
17:32
great venue. Mud Hone. He played there last year. We're playing there
17:34
again in a few months. I mean, you know, time moves on.
17:37
Some of those venues are still going. They have different names, like
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what was the off Ramp is now yeah, and then Moses New Mos.
17:48
So you know, some of them are still there, but like Rock Candies
17:52
gone and that, I would say, you know, a fairly iconic one.
17:56
But that was even sort of later in the whole um grunge jara,
18:00
so to speak. But like some of the a lot of the clubs from
18:03
like the early era, like Metropolis era, you know, those are obviously
18:07
all gone, Gorilla gardens all that stuff, But you know, that the
18:10
Central. I don't know, the Central maybe operating, but they're not the
18:12
same as as Steve said, It's like they may have live music, but
18:17
it's different now, you know. Um, I think that there are a
18:19
few that are still kind of underground. I think like New mos El,
18:22
Corzone and Crocodile are kind of the remnants of it. They still have,
18:29
Like the Central is still open and it's kind of a tourist spot, right
18:37
posters of the old shows from the early the late eighties and stuff. And
18:42
I went in there a few months back my girlfriend when you go there,
18:45
because she's a big Seattle music fan, and so we went in there.
18:49
It was just it was interesting to all these old posts of shows I went
18:53
to back in eighty eight and stuff. And yeah, but yeah, I
18:59
mean, you know, that's you know, that's a long time ago.
19:00
And there's an aspect of seats a bit of a museum, a dusty museum
19:06
for certain spots, you know, and that's fine, you know, people
19:10
like that stuff. Gorilla Gardens is one of the venues. Your last show
19:12
with the band was July seventh, nineteen eighty five, the Gorilla Gardens,
19:17
and that was one you felt bad about you say you were dick, Yeah,
19:22
you can. You talk about that night and while you felt you were
19:23
the odd man out and you had to leave the band because I didn't like
19:27
the music that we were playing, Ultimately, you know, and you know,
19:32
I should say they got much better after I left, getting Bruce in
19:34
the band and doing dry as a Bone and the together will Never a seven
19:38
inch. That was their best stuff. I guess was fighting what they wanted
19:42
to do. I was going one way and they were going collectively another way.
19:48
So I was the odd man out there and I realized that that and
19:52
I was like, I gotta get out of this. Like I'm not I'm
19:56
in their way, you know, is what I realized that night. And
20:00
you know it's you know, we are young dudes, and it's that those
20:03
kind of decisions are hard, and you know, Alex and Mark were really
20:07
bummed. Jeff was relieved. Me and Jeff were immediately friends again. He
20:14
was so glad I was gone, and so was I. So we're like,
20:17
yes, we are friends, we just don't want to be in a
20:18
band together. You know. Well you say green resultimate breakup was a godsend
20:23
for Grunch. Everybody involved went on to form or joined bands, including mud
20:27
Honey, and everyone did great. And you know, again we were young
20:33
dudes, and you know, I said some shitty things about Mother Lovebone at
20:37
the time, but now that shit, I guess pointed out the obvious fact
20:40
that there's a reason why Green River broke up, and you can see it
20:42
in Mud Honey and Mother Love Bone. You know, they're very different beasts.
20:48
So how does mud Honey come together? Well, me and Mark,
20:51
well, actually me and Dan. First we jammed together in a basement party
20:56
and we talked about maybe doing something bothering him, who was the singer for
21:00
the Throne Ups, because he was talking about maybe wanted to be in a
21:03
real band, and he's a great front man. So I was like,
21:07
yeah, well I'll do that. You know, instant's go for it.
21:11
The three of us practiced a couple of times, and Ed just hated it,
21:15
and so like Ed quickly realized he did not want to be in a
21:18
real band. That left me and me and Dan, and then Green River
21:23
broke up around that same time. So of course Mark is going to come
21:29
back in with me because everything we did we did together, it seemed like,
21:33
so the three of us were rehearsing, and the Melvin's broke up,
21:38
leaving Lucan behind and they moved down to San Francisco and stayed together, but
21:47
they told Lucan they're breaking up, and so Lucan didn't have a band,
21:51
and he's awesome, so he was the first guy we thought of, like,
21:56
let's get Lucan. You know. January first, nineteen eighty eight,
22:00
the four of us practice for the first time and it went well. Mud
22:04
Honey is such a great band name. Who came up with that? It's
22:07
a rest Myers film title, and we hadn't seen the movie, but we'd
22:12
seen some other Rest Myers movies and they were great. The Immoral Mister Ts
22:19
is one of my favorites. And beyond the Valley of the Ultra Vixens,
22:27
you know, there's some good ones. I mean they're borderline porn because you
22:33
know, big breasted ladies bouncing around a lot faster. Pussycat Kill Kill.
22:40
So we a long tradition of people borrowing movies from this man, Master Pussycat,
22:48
which is a great movie, that's one of his best, but that
22:51
was already taken, so we chose mud Honey. The book Down Rock Podcast
22:55
We'll be back after this mud Honey. Steve Turner and author Adam to Pedalan
23:02
or here to talk about turn his brand new book mud Ride, A messy
23:03
tripped through the grunge Explosion. I want to go back to stones forward,
23:07
he writes. Quote Steve's impact on Seattle music and a huge number of artists
23:11
and musicians is impressive. By God, he found the frick and holy grail
23:15
of all distortion boxes, super Fuzz. It's during that time, when you're
23:19
in the thrown ups and mud Honey that you start to develop your own guitar
23:22
sound. How did that distinct sound all come together for you? Well?
23:26
I got my first super Fuzz before Green River Even. I was working at
23:30
a Japanese restaurant in Bellevue Square, a mall, and one of the guys
23:36
I worked with, Jerry was he was barely older than me. I was
23:40
seventeen at this point and he was maybe two years older than me. But
23:42
he'd been through the ringer of the Vancouver punk scene. He was in a
23:47
band called the Bludgeoned Pigs. There's sadly no recorded history of the bludgend Pigs.
23:52
I'm disappointed by that. But Jerry worked there. He was no longer
23:56
to punk rock. He was totally into new romance tick, you know,
24:00
modern pop music at that time. And I was complaining that I couldn't get
24:06
a good guitar sound out of my amp and guitar because that's all I had.
24:10
And he's like, well, what distortion box are you using? I
24:11
was like, what's that? And he kind of smiled, and the next
24:15
day he showed up and handed me a super fuzz pedal. It's like try
24:19
this. So that that was really the root of the fuzz obsession, because
24:26
I plugged that in. I was like, holy crap, you know,
24:30
you can't get any fuzzier. I didn't even know I liked fuzz, you
24:33
know. It was just like like a the Sea's parting kind of moment.
24:37
And so that that was I was still in the Ducky Boys at that point,
24:44
but when Green River started, I had bought a couple more distortion pedals.
24:48
I was on a roll because you could buy like used distortion pedals like
24:52
five bucks back in nineteen eighty four. So I bought a few more,
24:56
including a big muff, and so by the time Green River started, I
25:00
had a big muff and that was kind of the basis, if you will,
25:06
of my sound. It's a little a little creamier than the super fuzes.
25:08
Who are the guitarists that influenced you, well, Greg again black Flag
25:12
is one of the geniuses of the guitar in my mind. And beyond that,
25:18
it was just no name people you don't even know who they were.
25:21
They were in garage bands from the sixties, Blue Cheer. I started really
25:26
like that late Stevens. I knew his name because his name was on the
25:30
record covers. But Neil Young kind of early on. Kirk Kirkwood of Meat
25:34
Puppets is you know, phenomenal guitar player, and I had no idea what
25:40
the heck he was doing. Bubba from Void was a huge one because it
25:45
was just noise, chaos. So I didn't really have guitar heroes that I
25:49
wanted to emulate so much as I guess wanted to make noise. Well,
25:53
yeah, that's what you get across in the book. You were and still
25:57
are type of guy that's not into what everybody else is into, or guitarists
26:03
that everybody else maybe into. You have you followed your own path? Yeah,
26:08
I liked I still search out obscure, weird music. That's always been
26:14
my thing. Well Stone even says that you've got a huge collection of records.
26:18
Do you still have that collection? Like? How big is this collection?
26:21
Like a garage fille? No. I used to have a storage unit
26:25
full of records, but I've been selling records. That was part of my
26:29
side hustle for the last twenty years, has been selling records. So I've
26:34
paired down my collection, but I keep buying things continually as well, some
26:38
to sell and some to keep. I was very happy to go to Mississippi
26:41
Records yesterday and I bought seven records for ten dollars. Adam, what are
26:47
your thoughts on Steve's guitar sound and mud Honey sound. When did you first
26:51
hear mud Honey? Well, you know, as I said, I mean,
26:53
I probably heard the very first thing that they did. I was I
26:56
was. I had heard about mud Honey before I heard their music, so
27:00
I was primed to I was very excited to actually hear their records. I'm
27:06
not sure what it was that I heard first, but I've literally got all
27:10
of their first recordings, whether it was the track on the Dope Guns and
27:15
Effing in the Streets compilation that came out first. I think I think that
27:19
Yeah four came out officially first. Yeahlowed by the Hate the Police on the
27:26
Mondo Stereo right, which I got also, and then I got the super
27:32
Fuse Big muff Pp. But I mean, those early tracks I really loved,
27:37
and so from my perspective of you know, up till that point,
27:42
you know, largely being a primarily kind of a heavy metal, heavy rock
27:47
kind of fan, although you know, I had a varied taste. Basically
27:52
I'd gotten into garage rock as well. Mud Honey hit all the sweet spots
27:56
for me. I mean they're not obviously a heavy metal band, but you
27:57
know that early on they were pretty heavy and pretty. You know, I
28:00
loved Steve's guitar sound, just the the dirtiness, the nastiness of it.
28:07
When I could definitely hear the Garage Rocks influence in there. You know,
28:14
it sounded thick and rawn distorted, but it didn't sound like Marshall Stack kind
28:18
of distorted, you know, So you know, that's what definitely appealed to
28:23
me. I really liked mud Honey's rawness, and you know, I always
28:27
loved Mark's voice, so you know, to me as a huge Green River
28:32
fan. Mud Honey was an easy transition as far as I was concerned.
28:37
I mean, I totally saw that they were not doing the you know,
28:41
the guitar hero solos and stuff like that. Mud Honey was not. But
28:45
I loved Steve's you know chaos. There's something like, one of my favorite
28:49
solos that Steve's done is on this subhop single and I couldn't even tell you
28:56
the the A side, but I like the B side is on the B
29:00
sides of this song called Thorn, and then they later recorded it on Every
29:06
Good Boy Deserves Budge, I believe. But it just has this great fifteen
29:11
second solo that's just I have memorized this out of every note of it.
29:15
I couldn't play it, obviously, but I just loved how concise and crazy
29:21
and just perfect for the song it is. I like a lot of the
29:23
same artists that Steve likes. I like Neil Young, I like, you
29:27
know a lot of the same stuff, So I get what he's going for.
29:30
I like the chaos. I like the you know, who knows what
29:33
might happen with this solo kind of approach. I always appreciated that so I
29:38
can. I'd see where he's coming from that song. Obviously I was in
29:42
the throes of my Billie Childish fandom at that point. But also, you
29:48
know, I know every note solos in songs like Louie Louie the Kingsman,
29:55
it's a perfect solo. It's borrowed from the Wayler's version of Louie Louis,
30:00
but it's it's an absolutely perfect solo. And the solo and pushing too hard
30:03
by the seeds every note I know that solo. You know, I can
30:07
hum it to you. You know I know every note and that that's you
30:12
know I You know, I wanted chaos, but I also wanted a little
30:15
bit of melody in some of those solos too. As far as songwriting,
30:19
Steve, I know on the New Mud Honey album there is some outside songwriting
30:23
on that one. But in general, for you, what is the approach?
30:27
Does a song come to you just out of nowhere? Does start with
30:30
a riff? Are you always ready to record something right on your phone whenever
30:36
you have an idea? How does that all come about for you? For
30:40
me, I always thought that, you know, if I'm just sitting on
30:42
the couch playing something absent mindedly, even you know, twenty five years ago
30:48
or whatever. I'd be sitting on the couch with a guitar in my hand,
30:49
watching TV and just kind of strumming appsent mindedly, and if something caught
30:55
my ear that I was playing, then I would go, oh, okay,
30:57
what's that? And then I'd play it again and stuff, and I
31:00
wouldn't record it because I've realized if I couldn't remember it the next day,
31:06
it probably wasn't worth you know, I'm probably wrong on this, but my
31:11
theory was like, well, if I can't remember the next day, then
31:11
it wasn't that good. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Yeah, I would,
31:15
you know, come up with things sitting on the couch. You know,
31:19
at this point I do record things onto my computer, you know,
31:25
after I've played it for a few days. But it was fairly organic.
31:29
And then the way we write songs is we have to be pretty much in
31:32
the same room together to write something. But that said, on this new
31:37
record, we didn't have the time to do that because we didn't see each
31:40
other for a year and a half because of COVID, so we had to
31:44
get some shit done in the studio and our long term recording engineer slash co
31:49
producer Johnny Sangster was a big help in making sense of the chaos that we
31:56
have. We we had, you know, thirty the ideas for songs and
32:00
trying to sort out what we were doing. That's why he gets credit on
32:05
a few songs on the record because he kind of helped focus us onto what
32:09
we were doing with that particular song. And you know, he's old valued
32:14
friends, so of course we're gonna credit him if he's helping us. This
32:17
new mud Honey album, by the way, we should mention, is titled
32:21
Plastic Eternity came out in April. Was this a planned project or did it
32:25
just kind of happen? Now? We you know, we wanted to get
32:30
a record down. We were just frustrated because of COVID We couldn't do anything.
32:34
You know, we had to cancel tours over and over that were scheduled.
32:38
But we didn't want to get together until we'd had a couple of shots
32:42
in us. So once we got together, it was a you know,
32:46
hurry up and get it done kind of situation. But you know, we
32:50
still ended up with lots of extra songs, you know, just picking and
32:53
choosing. I leave that to Mark once we get everything done, I kind
32:57
of leave it to Mark to sort out what be on the actual record,
33:00
because you know, lyrics and those kind of things are kind of unify the
33:06
record. So I bow out and I was like, put the record together.
33:09
You know, I'm all for it. You do write in the book
33:13
about being asked to join Nirvana. This would have been around this is nineteen
33:16
ninety. In fact, a Mudhoney drummer, Dan Peters, was actually drumming
33:21
for the band. That was summer of ninety. I think you were asked
33:23
to join the band, but you declined. You say you felt they were
33:28
better as a trio. I mean they weren't anything yet. You know.
33:31
Remember this is like right when Dave Grohl joined and you know, right after
33:37
they kicked Dan out. So and Dan was my roommate at the time too,
33:42
So I was like, I can't join a band that just kicked out
33:45
Dan, you know. But I also I legitimately just thought they were a
33:52
great three piece. And so my advice is like, don't get a second
33:54
guitar player. You guys are great as a three piece. You know,
33:57
like there's not that's a rare beast, a really good, powerful three pieces,
34:00
a rare beast. And you know, I didn't even think of it
34:05
at the time. It didn't matter or anything. And years later I thought
34:09
about it, like, well, you know what, if I had said
34:13
yes, I wouldn't have lasted more than a few weeks, I don't think,
34:15
because there's just a lot of chaos involved with those people. And as
34:20
much as I love them, Chris is awesome. I've known Chris forever.
34:23
But I wasn't the guy to be in that band, and that's pretty obvious.
34:29
You know, it wouldn't have worked out. And they got Pat Smeir
34:32
and he was the dude. It was great. But they had a second
34:36
guitar player earlier, which is terrible. It was just muddied up the sound.
34:39
But Pat Smeir was the dude. He was the right guy for the
34:44
job. You know, he's a great guitar player and could somehow maneuver his
34:49
way through those very volatile personalities. Well, you know firsthand what it was
34:54
like working with Nirvana and Pearl Jam because you toured with BO around ninety four,
35:01
and you say there was quite the contrast and atmosphere, some bad vibes
35:06
within the Nirvana camp. Oh, this is right towards the end of Nirvana,
35:09
right, yeah, it was. It was. It was eye opening
35:13
to us, and it was it scared us because we'd already agreed like doing
35:19
the Parl Jam tour. What I god, if this is what Nirvana is,
35:22
like, how awful is a Pearl Jam tour going to be? And
35:24
we couldn't have been more wrong. Pearl Jam was organized and happy with their
35:30
situation. Everybody in Nirvana was kind of they were heading the sand sort of.
35:37
They didn't want to admit that they got there because of the record they
35:43
made, and they were they should have been really happy, but nobody was
35:46
happy in that camp and that was a bummer and that there was a lot
35:53
of arguing and weirdness on that tour. And then we did the Pearl Jam
36:00
tour and it was great and to me, we learned a lot seeing like
36:06
you can actually navigate this giant world of rock stardom and keep things, you
36:13
know, together and circle the wagons. I guess. You know, there's
36:16
still people that work for Pearl Jam that were on that first tour we did.
36:21
They still work with them today. Yeah, Yeah, they have great
36:23
people around them and there. They treat people with a lot of respect,
36:29
and you know, they're happy to be where they're at. There they feel
36:32
very lucky, you know, and and all that sort of stuff. They
36:37
don't they don't take it for granted, you know, they work hard.
36:39
Pearl Jam. Yes, what have you thought of the music of Pearl Jam
36:43
over the years? I think once they got Matt Cameron the band, they
36:46
were a hundred times better. Really, he was the dude that cemented them
36:52
to me. You know, they had a lot of It wasn't my cup
36:54
of tea necessarily, but I could find things that were great when Not for
37:00
You came out. I think that was one of the first songs that Ed
37:02
wrote on guitar. It was very simple, like three chords. I like,
37:05
Okay, this is a good song. But yeah, no, they're
37:08
great. I can't imagine being in that band and playing live for three hours
37:15
every night on tour. Yeah, I was a bummer with Covid. They
37:17
had just put out that album Gigaton and that great single Dance at the Clairvoyants,
37:23
like a talking Head song, and they were just set to go on
37:27
on tour to support the album, and then everything you know with Covid just
37:30
turned to shit, that's a great record too. It is really good.
37:36
They mixed things up. It was really cool record. I'm just playing bass
37:39
on that song and Jeff's playing keyboards and guitar. It's a it's it's good
37:47
stuff. I thought a good live. I don't know how much Matt writes
37:51
in the band, but he's he's a very talented songwriter. I don't know
37:54
how much he's contributed over the years, but you know that that could be
37:58
part of the reason why. Yeah, he's an incredible song writer. You
38:04
know. I had a label back in the nineties and put out well Water
38:07
Conspiracy Records that he was very much involved in the songwriting on that stuff,
38:12
which I thought was fantastic. But yeah. I saw them at Ohanna a
38:15
year and a half ago now, I think, and they played two nights
38:21
in a row, and the first night they hadn't played live for a while,
38:23
and they were trying to do a bunch of the new songs and it
38:27
didn't go well for them really yeah, and they were bummed. And I
38:31
could see it on stage, Like my girlfriend was watching loving it because she's
38:35
a huge projam fan, and I was like, they were not having a
38:37
good night. I could tell because I know them, So I was like,
38:40
this is a hard one for them, you know. I mean I
38:43
couldn't really tell musically, but I could just tell the way they were looking
38:45
at each other. And so I was like, oh, this is hard.
38:49
And the next night was great. They'd sorted it out. They I
38:52
mean, this is how hard they worked. The next day they had a
38:54
three or four hour practice before the show sort out their problems, and then
39:00
there was a fantastic show. Kel They were really stoked on it. And
39:04
of course Pearl Jam was part of that huge grunge phase early nineties. Adam,
39:08
what did you think of that whole period? It was weird because I
39:12
was obviously a fan of the music going, you know, way back to
39:15
its earliest roots. As I said before, what was weird to me was
39:22
there was a certain point in the early nineties when and I'm sure Steve can
39:27
understand and tested this, where Seattle became kind of silly in a lot of
39:30
ways. And by that I mean a tremendous number of people moved there,
39:36
and I was one of them, to be honest, but people were moving
39:38
there kind of for the wrong reasons. There were a lot of musicians that
39:43
were moving there to find their fame or whatever. There were people moving there
39:46
just because they wanted to be close to the scene that was producing all these
39:51
bands that they loved. But you know, when I got there in nineteen
39:55
ninety, you could see, for instance, Pearl Jam's first show at a
40:00
small, intimate nightclub, and you know, it was mostly like it was
40:05
a lot of it. You got to know everyone in the scene pretty easily.
40:07
It was still pretty small at that point. It wasn't like the small
40:10
scene of the early eighties that Steve kind of came up in, but it
40:14
was still pretty small, Like you'd go to a show and you see all
40:17
the same people, you know. But then maybe you know, as it's
40:21
getting closer to ninety two and ninety three, when all these got bands got
40:24
so big, that's when it kind of got ridiculous. And I think that
40:30
you started seeing some reaction to that within the scene. The people that had
40:34
been around for a while were not happy about it. Grunge became a dirty
40:38
word. No one was really wanting to claim that title. And you know,
40:43
I just remember going to one show that mud Honey played. I think
40:46
it was a benefit show at the rock Candy where they were playing, and
40:51
there was just like a NonStop procession of people stage diving to the point where
40:55
I think the band kind of just stopped, or or maybe everyone but Dan
41:01
stopped playing, and then they just people just kept stage diving. It was
41:05
just kind of like that probably was a flopping it gets fun yeah, yeah,
41:07
yeah, popping, yes, And at that point I just remember thinking,
41:12
I just gotta I gotta leave. This has just kind of gotten stupid.
41:15
Also, I should note that part of what made it Seattle so exciting
41:21
and great wasn't just the fact that it was intimate, but it's what the
41:25
bands were doing at that time. And so, you know, things change.
41:29
Bands put out records, they get bigger, they you know, a
41:32
lot changed. You know, bands, sound change, has all these things
41:37
changed. So you know that the music that was coming out in nineteen ninety
41:40
three whatever, it wasn't like the music it was coming out in eighty six,
41:44
eighty seven, eighty eight. It just it had changed, and it
41:46
was just a different musical scene in a lot of ways. And so it
41:51
wasn't so much just the fact that it had kind of gotten overrun with silly
41:55
business. It was just like the music was different, everything about it was
42:00
different. Seattle was changing, you know, Seattle is becoming this different city
42:04
that looked nothing like Seattle in the eighties. And I should also point out
42:07
that all of us that were from the early scene, we were all on
42:13
tour all the time too, so we weren't hanging out the same way that
42:15
we did in the mid to late eighties anymore. We were doing our own
42:20
thing and also getting older and people were starting to get married and things like
42:24
that, you know, as you do as you get older. So that
42:28
original scene just dissipated naturally, as well as some of the bands getting huge
42:35
time marches on, Steve, one last quick Pearl Jam question for you,
42:37
because you have in the book. There's a funny story about when you were
42:39
introduced to Eddie Vetter. It was funny the way he introduced himself to you.
42:44
It was very low key. It was well, photographer from California came
42:49
up to do a photo shoot with us, and Ed knew him, and
42:52
Ed was already in Seattle doing the I guess Mookie Blaylock at that point,
42:57
you know, but we hadn't met him, and he was at our house
43:00
like kind of being the helper for the photographer. What do you call that
43:05
assistant the Photograh's assistant or whatever, an assistant, and you know, we're
43:09
hanging out and you know, we were drinking beer and you know, talk
43:13
and he was a good guy and you know, basically hung out with us
43:16
for several hours before he finally said like, so I'm I'm the new singer
43:20
and Stone and Jeff's thing like, but we already liked him at this point,
43:23
so it was a you know, he's a very perceptive dude and he
43:29
knew to kind of warm his way in first with us before saying that he
43:34
was in the band with Jeff and Stone. You say, you saw Kurt
43:37
Cobain around, but you didn't know him that well. Yeah, he was
43:40
a very shy person. You know, we did a lot of shows together
43:45
through the years. It was clear that we didn't have a whole lot in
43:47
common. We would say, hey, how are you doing, man,
43:51
great, great to see you, and then long pause, and there wasn't
43:53
really much more to say. I knew Chris really well because he was the
43:59
dude that was all was with the Melvin's in the early days. He was
44:01
just there their lumbering goofy friend, you know, in their van. I
44:06
feel like I knew Chris really well. Well, Kurt was a fan of
44:08
mud honey, that's for sure. He did mention you guys. Yeah,
44:12
sure, yeah, I mean I'm a fan of about it. They were
44:14
great, like right out of the gate that I thought they were amazing.
44:17
Yeah, And you do write about the day you heard the news that Kurt
44:22
had died in April of ninety four. You yourself never had an issue with
44:25
drugs or alcohol. What do you attribute that too? Yeah, that's always
44:30
a big question. How much of it is chemical, how much of it
44:31
is your environment, how much of it. I had no interest in doing
44:35
drugs at all. Yeah, I you know, I've smoked pot, I
44:39
drink wine, you know, on the daily, but I never ever wanted
44:45
to do drugs. I mean, you know, when I say I smoked
44:49
pipe, try to it handful of times. Occasionally I do a little tiny
44:52
bite of a gummy legally prescribed gummy here, you know, but it's not
44:58
I don't really like it that Actually it's you know, I yet to find
45:01
a marijuana thing that go okay, well that I like that, But I've
45:05
never done you know, mushrooms or acid or any hard drugs whatsoever. Never
45:09
tried cocaine. Cocaine seems like the stupidest drug of all time to me.
45:15
As a teenager, I was a straight edge kid, and that was I
45:20
hadn't even heard minor threat when I read about straight edge. I was reading
45:22
about these teenage kids in DC. He's like, what that makes sense to
45:25
me? I'm that kid, I'm that guy. I'm a skateboarder. I
45:29
don't do drugs and drunk punk rockers wreck in the scene pissed me off.
45:34
So you know, I identified with straight egge as a sixteen year old for
45:37
sure. But yeah, I guess never was interested. Mark got way into
45:44
drugs obviously, And you know, you also see that and he's like,
45:47
how's that working me out? Not well? So I mean I still I
45:52
see people on the street with scalpel over their face, and I wonder how
45:55
they can not put two and two together. Other Yeah, I know,
46:01
I understand addictions hard. You know, did you know Mark Lanigan Will of
46:06
the Screaming Trees. There's a guy I'm just now getting turned onto his music.
46:09
The author of Great Prato wrote a great book on Mark. What an
46:14
amazing musician, what an amazing artist? Completely, Yeah, no, he
46:16
was. I loved The Screaming Trees from the moment I first heard their first
46:22
record, you know, I was like wow. You know he was a
46:23
troubled man. Obviously. He threatened to beat me up once. Really yeah,
46:31
but there was over something really important. He was arguing in Tim Harden's
46:38
behalf and I was arguing about phil Oaks. We were the only two people
46:43
in nineteen ninety Seattle that liked folk music, and we didn't agree on our
46:50
favorite folk singers. At the time. He was a Tim Harden fan.
46:54
That's good. Well, I love the look, but I do now see.
46:59
You know, I've come around to his side. You know, Jim
47:01
Harden is the better artists. A little too late now, isn't It's a
47:06
little too late. But I really didn't think he was going to kick my
47:07
ass. And he was hammered at his party on Al Kaye Beach at Bob
47:13
Whittaker's house, and I really didn't think he was going to kick my ass.
47:16
And he's a big, an intimidating man. Yeah, oh man.
47:22
Let's get to some of your solo work, Steve. You release two solo
47:25
albums two thousand and three Searching for Melody in two thousand and four, Steve
47:30
Turner and his bad Ideas. Oh there's another one too, two thousand and
47:32
six is new wave punk asshole. We can't forget about that one. As
47:36
you would find out unexpectedly, Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden is a huge fan
47:39
of Searching for Melody. Fans can read about that in the book. But
47:43
what inspired these projects? There's some really great folk rock in here. Singer
47:46
songwriter material on these dimeback Blues reminds me of early Grateful Dead bluegrass. I
47:52
love it, yeah, I think it as guess folk rock. I love
47:55
folk music, always have singer songwriter stuff. I love James Taylor. I'm
48:01
not supposed to as a punk rocker, but I do. And tell the
48:07
Bruce Dickinson story, this is great. You're on his radio show, right,
48:09
Yeah, yeah, Well I was in London doing a few solo shows
48:14
and somehow I got an interview on the radio with Bruce Dickinson. And Bruce
48:20
Dickinson has a bit of a history with the Seattle scene. He'd recorded two
48:24
solo records with I Think two right with Jackson Woe one Okay, I thought
48:30
it was too but but he'd recorded a record with Jack and Dino, and
48:34
you know, I went to the radio station and he came out and met
48:38
me before the interview, and he did a spot on perfect Jack and Dino
48:43
impersonation. Jack and Dino has quirks to him and he nailed them. And
48:47
he was like a Jackie Dinos yeah, a lot about you know, he's
48:51
like a little you know, fire plug. And he was saying how much
48:57
he loved by He's like, yeah, it reminds me of James Taylor.
48:59
It's great love. I was like, that's like the worst thing you can
49:02
say to like, because back in the mid seventies that was the dividing line
49:08
James Taylor sucks, you know, yes, and Cream Magazine all those people
49:14
like, you know, they hated James Taylor. But I like James Taylor.
49:16
Yeah, And so it was one of those funny things. I was
49:20
like, Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden is telling me how much he loves my
49:23
record because it reminds him of James Taylor. Okay, is a moment for
49:28
the books. Bruce Diketson, by the way, the guy's amazing and he
49:30
looks the same. I mean, he just and he's still as busy as
49:34
he was in his twenties. He does too much. He makes us all
49:37
look terrible underachievers. Yeah, we are all underachievers. Next to Bruce Dickinson.
49:44
I mean he's you know, he lives in a castle. First off,
49:47
he writes historical books about Celtic history. He's uh or he was still.
49:55
I don't think he's still a commercial airline pilot, but he was for
49:59
a while a BBC or whatever radio show. He sings for iron Maid and
50:04
I'm like, dude, leave some of it for the rest of us.
50:07
He was such a nice guy and that's what was really fun, where he
50:13
was just clowning around and impersonating Jackandino. So I want to go back to
50:19
the new mud Honey album, Plastic Eternity, the eleven studio album by the
50:23
band. For those who haven't heard it yet, what can people expect to
50:27
hear, Well, it's just another mud Honey record. One of the interesting
50:31
things about it is that Dan our drummer is now bringing songs in one of
50:37
the first singles. I mean, I don't know how to consider things as
50:40
single when they're gets released. Digitally, but Little Dogs is all Dan's music
50:47
that I had to learn how to play his guitar parts. And being a
50:52
drummer, he has perfect timing and all that sort of stuff and I do
50:55
not have that, And so it's it was it's really fun for me to
51:00
try to figure out and get into Dan's head and try to figure out these
51:05
weird guitar licks that he had written. And he wrote a few other songs
51:10
too, and it's it's like, Okay, this is a weird, interesting
51:14
challenge to try to play guitar like a guy that doesn't play a lot of
51:20
guitar. Well, Dan does play a lot of guitar now, but historically
51:23
he's a drummer. And along with a new mud Honey album, of course,
51:28
is this book which is out. Now. What do you hope people
51:30
will get out of this book? Well, you know, I you know,
51:34
when we were first talking about it, I didn't want it. I've
51:37
got no scores to settle with anybody. I didn't want it to be a
51:39
mean spirited book or anything like that. I guess wanted to kind of celebrate
51:44
the Seattle music scene that I came up in, and I think we did
51:50
a pretty good job with that and showing my history through it and giving an
51:57
awful lot of credit to an awful lot of other people. You know,
52:00
that's kind of what I wanted to do. And Adam, for you,
52:02
after working on the book with Steve, what did you get out of this
52:07
experience? Well, the one thing that I took away from it is the
52:12
thing that we kind of started with with Steve, you know, because I
52:15
wanted to know first of all, you know, what is what is your
52:17
take on this? Like what you know? And the heart of it was
52:22
how important hardcore was to the DNA, the formation of this sound that I
52:28
think a lot of people maybe didn't give credit to or understand. But it
52:32
wasn't so much that grunge sounded like hardcore, but it's just that these guys
52:37
all met and came together and socialized and all that in their bands played together
52:43
when they were kind of all in hardcore bands playing you know these all ages
52:47
clubs and early eighties. So to me, that was really interesting And what
52:52
I really came to appreciate about this is that, you know, this is
52:55
one musician's perspective from this era which was a hugely influential and pivotal era.
53:01
But you know, the thing that Steve has is that he was there in
53:07
Seattle from age two on. I mean he was you know, a lot
53:10
of these people, a lot of people can file from sound Guard hugely important
53:15
to the scene as well, but he moved there in the eighties, the
53:19
early eighties or something like that, and so everyone has their own perspective on
53:24
what the Seattle sound is in the Seattle scene and stuff. But I was
53:28
really fascinated by Steve's take on it and his perspective, you know, regarding
53:34
punk and hardcore and how important that was to the DNA. So I think
53:37
that that's that's something I really learned a lot about, and I think that
53:40
we kind of carried that through and you know, I think that'll be eye
53:45
opening to people, you know, to kind of see what the roots were
53:47
like and you know, how it all came together. The book is called
53:52
mud Ride, A Messy Trip through the Grunge Explosion. It is out now,
53:55
came out on June thirteenth, And guys, where can people find you
53:59
online? I'm at Adam Tedelan dot com. So my name A D E
54:04
M T E P E D E l E N dot com I'm on the
54:08
Instagrams and facebooks, Steve Turner, Adam to Peel and thanks guys, great,
54:14
thank you so much. That's it. It's in the books.