Latest / "the good work talk show" with mallory contois / the good work talk show | ep. 06 - grace mccarrick

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the good work talk show | ep. 06 - grace mccarrick · "the good work talk show" with mallory contois

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Can you get out of your own way and do something that might better someone else?
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was someone that old people at parties really liked.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Damn.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: I was always with the adults.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be with someone's grandma.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: I have effed this up.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Someone needs to tell me all the right choices to make so I can move on from this.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: When I hear these podcasts, people talk about taking bets on themselves and taking risks.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to mean starting your own company.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Today on Good Work, my guest is Grace McCarrick.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: She is a creator with over 200,000 followers across platforms, and she makes a living speaking and teaching about work online.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: She is an incredible voice in the world of work, and she gives advice on soft skills and navigating careers, particularly for Gen Z.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: She's known for having some pretty spicy hot takes, and she has become a guide for many.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Very excited to talk to her about her decision to jump into posting on TikTok and what it's like to be pretty brutally honest on the internet.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm curious how she deals with criticism and pushback, and I'm excited to learn a little bit more about how her business actually works.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: If you've thought about starting to share more of yourself online or even creating a social media driven business, I think you're really gonna enjoy this conversation.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Mallory Contois, and this is good work.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, great.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Are we charging extra for the bare feet?
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: No, not yet.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, maybe there's a paid tier just for the zoom in of just the feet, the feet version.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, we'll cut that.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Grace McCarrick, welcome to good work.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Mel.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited that you're here.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Are you excited?
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm honored.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: You are a friend.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: You are a creator with like millions and millions of views every month.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: You are doing keynotes.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: You are viewed on the internet as somebody who has like made it.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: You're doing this amazing stuff.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Can you, at least to help like ground everybody, can you walk me through a like last week?
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what did you do last week?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: What is kind of I an average week is a hard question, but what did you do last week?
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, last week this is a great one to talk about.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you picked a really good I timed it.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I probably had eight potential sales calls.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: So um from my social media, people come in, they say, hey, we want to do something with, you know, from brands like I work with, like Spotify, Amazon, Marriott, DoorDash, Live Nation, they come in and say, um, we're we're having this issue in our team, or we want to work on this thing with our team.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Can you do something around that?
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Or we're doing this keynote, can you do this thing?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I probably had eight of those, which means do those and then do all the proposals, which my assistants.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Do you do the proposals before or after those calls?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, always after.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: After.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Everything I do custom.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: I do everything custom.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I have these executive groups I meet with once a month.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I had one of those.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: I have one in finance, one in tech.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: I had my those are clients, like executive groups that you're helping, or are you part of the group?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: They're not clients, and I'm not part of the group.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: I I gathered them as like a long-term marketing strategy years ago.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was people who I either worked with or they reached out, we didn't work together, but I was like, they're so cool.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I just sort of have been collecting them for years.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um and they just come in and we talk about, I bring comments that bothered me where I'm like, is this a trend happening for you guys?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Or like what are the behavioral things going on?
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm always trying to account for the fact that I am not in businesses.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: So what I do is I talk about soft skills to corporate teams.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: I am not in businesses experiencing the tendency.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like as an employee of the soft skill.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm in this like little white tower outside saying, you guys should do it like this.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm always trying to mitigate that gap.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: So talking to people who are experiencing it daily is helpful for that.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I have one of those groups.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um what else I did?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: I imagine you recorded some content.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: I do content every day.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: How much?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: It depends.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think one day I had a good hair day, so maybe I did 12 videos.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: Is that real?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's like when you're having a good day, you're feeling yourself, do you do more?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if I'm like, I cannot, you know, you just wake up ugly.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: All the time.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you don't know that, but no, certainly that happens to me.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, you know what?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be an old video day.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Sure today.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, so you created some content, anything else that you can think of like work-wise that you did last week.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: I also have this private paid community that that I started this year called the Soft Skilled School.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: You started that what two, three months ago?
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: In January.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: We're in our glow-up iteration.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: We did Jan, Feb, March, learned.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: April, we came out out of the cave, ready.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I had my first live um workshop with them in the new iteration of the community, like in this new beautiful platform.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: And like 30, 35 people came.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: It was amazing.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: So that's helpful, I think, for folks to understand what you're doing for work now.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: I want to go back to, we're gonna start in childhood.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, can you tell me a little bit about what you were like as a kid, the environment that you grew up in, um, anything that comes to mind around influences or like what you were drawn to or what you loved doing, anything like that.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, probably the biggest work influence in my childhood was um being like a border walker.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's what my parents was my dad, my mom's not that, my dad's much more imaginative.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: He would say that.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: So they grew up, they were my dad was kids of immigrants, my mom was first generation.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: They grew up in the Bronx with a bunch of Irish Catholic people, immigrants, and they were the first in their houses to go to college, you know, like that was the generation to have all those first.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so they grew up in a world that was very different than the world they raised us in.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: So my dad's a lawyer, my mom's a nurse, and they moved us to the suburbs, and really we grew up in a white-collar world.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: And my dad would always say, So you moved from the Bronx to the suburbs.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: My dad would always say, and I and then I went to high school in Greenwich, Connecticut.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: My dad would always say, like, we're we are in a white-collar world with blue-collar values.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so in some ways I felt like, and we didn't go, we didn't go to the really fancy school till I was in eighth grade, which is a really hard time to move from a really tiny parochial school to a really rich fancy school.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I always just felt like I didn't quite fit anywhere, um, which I think, you know, most teenagers feel, if not all.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: So normal, but everyone feels very singular to you.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um and work to us, like my dad was gone all the time.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: Constantly gone.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: He's a very successful lawyer, he built an incredible business.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and but he would always be available.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it was always like like he would be gone a lot, but we could always call him in the middle of the day.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's a famous story.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: He's in some conference room in London, this like big mediation, he works on all these big cases.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: And um, my little brother, who was four, called him, and my dad was like, Oh, I gotta step out.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's my house calling.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: And he goes, Dad, okay, that thing in Star Wars, when he brought out the lightsaber, was it this or you know, it was like this really cute thing.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that was what my parents always did.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then my mom, same work ethic, same working all the time.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: So she did, um, she's an ER nurse, so she did um part-time while we were growing up, and then she took some time and just raised us.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: There's four of us, so there's a lot, and then did part-time school nursing.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so she was always working.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: And as a nurse, by the way, not only is she working, raising the family, doing the the whatever you call it, like the the salary job.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, everyone in the neighborhood is like, Dawn, can you look at this?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Dawn, what about this?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Can you come over here?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so constantly- I mean the doctor in the neighborhood.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, yeah.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: Constantly, the two of them working all the time, adding value.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um sometimes paid, sometimes not.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes paid, sometimes not.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so to me, that was just that was just how you, if you are, you want to be a fulfilled, satisfied person in the world who contributes, like you are just constantly moving, putting yourself out there.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: And you were talking about values pretty early, it sounds like.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like if he you it's clearly ingrained into you, like white-collar town, blue-collar values.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like that was a kind of unique part of your growing?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, was it like a big part of your household, or was it just like kind of one thing that you guys said?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how how central was values and sort of like operating principles?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: Central, funny.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: I just did a video about it um this weekend, a social media video.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: My it was very important to my dad.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: I would say it was probably important to both of them, but my dad would communicate it much more differently than my mother.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we it was to whom much is given, much is expected.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: So because they knew what it was like to not have parents who could pay for college or do that, they were like, we're going to pay for college, but you're gonna have to give a year of service back after.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna take you on these lovely vacations, but then we're also gonna go on a humanitarian aid mission.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was very, you have a lot and you will receive a lot, but you also need to know this is not the norm for most people in the world.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so and you have to be able to give back.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so the really fancy school I went to, that was one of their tenants was um to whom much is given, much is expected.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: With great privilege comes great responsibility.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, so that we were very value-centric in that way.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: What were you drawn to as a kid, like in terms of subjects?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like I feel like everybody was like, Oh, I was a math and science kid, I was an arts kid, I was whatever.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, did you have a strong draw as a kid or history?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: History, okay.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: But history in the way of like, like I loved historical fiction books and movies, and I'd be in like seventh grade history class, and she'd be talking about um, let's say like King Henry VIII, and I was like, and and you know, whatever the facts were in history.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd say, but actually what happened was he divorced this wife because of this thing, and her brother did that thing, and he was actually known as a great philanderer, but whatever, like I'd go on this whole thing, yeah.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: And she'd be like, that's literally not the class at all.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's not what we're talking about at all.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's not gonna be the test, it doesn't matter.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I always felt like the stuff I cared about was not in school.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: And was that that stuff?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like there were signs already, like the stuff was like the stuff underneath the surface, the stuff was like the interpersonal stuff and the stories and that kind of thing.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you feel like looking back, you're like, oh, I was interested in this stuff really early?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: I took a psych class in high school, I think just as if it was maybe maybe like an easy class.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and um, and I loved it.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, whoa, this is so cool.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because I loved stories.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I wanted to be an actor for most of my childhood young adult.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I thought I wanted to be an actor.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I loved the idea of telling stories and this idea of like I thought storytelling was a way to influence people.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think and it is.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's a very like astute thing to be aware of as a kid, I feel like.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't cool, yeah.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I wasn't someone that people were like, like I was someone that old people at parties really liked.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Same.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I was always with the adults, yeah.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be with someone's grandma, right?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so I didn't have magnetism for like my own age.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like I wasn't like hot, you know, when I was 15, not a 15 year old's a hot, if you understand what I'm saying.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I wasn't like, I didn't sort of have that fit in my age group.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so I want like I was like, how can I get that?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, if I was an actress, if I was doing this thing, if I'm in this play.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I was always kind of trying to examine that.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you went through school and then you did a you did do a year of service, right?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned that earlier.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Was that your choice?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: Was that something that was expected of you?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, tell me a little bit about that decision.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: That was the deal we made with my parents.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: We had to give you a year of service back.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a deal I made.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I was conscious of it.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: I knew my dad had done Jesuit Volunteer Corps, um, which Jesuits are a sect of c uh Catholic priests.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: They're like the cooler, more sort of intellectual sect.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: And um I knew I had wanted to do that.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: He'd done it in Montana on a reservation.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: We'd spent a lot of time out there growing up.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like we we raised money and built a community center there.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: I um spent a month there in winter break uh in college helping out a nun friend with like the stuff going on in the community center.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like we'd spent a lot of time out of there.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt this is too big of a like I will be so defeated every day if I'm working on a reservation.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like I loved it, but I need something where I can have a little more tangible that like you can't fix any of these problems.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: The so you were a fixer, you were a result oriented.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: I knew like I will be depressed if I go here and it's these huge problems I can't fix anything.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I went to Portland, Oregon.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: You get matched, kind of like a school.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I went to Portland, Oregon, and I ran an emergency services food pantry.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it was, it was in some ways, I did have really tangible value as giving people food for their family.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: When anything bigger came along as it does in social services, someone came in, you know, I'm 21, I'm a dum-dum.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Someone comes in, comes in beaten to shit.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, my boyfriend beat me.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: By the way, he's right behind me coming in the door.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, like there was a lot of stuff like that.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so learning how to deal with that and learning even less, you know, intense.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Someone comes in, my nephew's staying with us.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Can we get our food?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because it was off of like a you got amount per month.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Can we get it early because you don't want our food to feed all the kids?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so you do that.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd go and like handpick everything and be like, okay, if you have another boy in the house and it's do this chicken and this, like, you know.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then they come in even a week earlier next time.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, I'm not acting anything.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm not helping anyone.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: You try to get someone to a shelter, they go to a shelter, and then they don't show up the next, you know, you're like, it it felt really frustrating.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: So now we like enter into your career as an as an adult, maybe.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um maybe let's start with looking at between, so what year was this when you are leaving?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I leave the volunteer year in 2012.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so 2012, it's now 2026.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: Can you like um zoom out and kind of explain?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, did you have a set of eras or seasons throughout that career to kind of give us a map and then we can kind of like talk about each one a little bit?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I think, and I was the oldest in my house, so we didn't know any different.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: My parents would say this to anyone.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: It was the traditional path was what they understood.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: You go to college, you get a job immediately, you don't have any gaps in your resume.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: You get the first job that takes you.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: You work really hard, you get a promotion.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like that was the path we understood.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so, even going to college, we weren't looking outside the box.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I was also like a homebody, I wasn't looking to go far.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I probably should have done all of those things.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: I probably should have gone to college somewhere far, whatever.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I didn't do any of that stuff.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: I went really close to home.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't challenge myself very much.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so then after my volunteer, I had wanted to be an actress.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so I came out of that doing two things.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: One is I had made$200 a month.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: That was what I made.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, nope, I will not be a starving artist.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: There, like I will find other ways to bring that into my life.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: So that was the end of that dream.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: And the second was if I want to make a difference in the world, which I do, and that's what I felt through acting.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like I wanted, I was so moved by stories.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: I want to tell stories that move people.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like I wanted to impact on others, yeah.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: So then I was like, okay, then I need to go, I need to go climb up this ladder financially, reputationally, whatever, so I can make an impact.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because this band-aid work isn't doing shit.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Or sorry, to curse.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: We can definitely curse.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's not doing anything.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I need to get up here.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, great, I'll go into corporate.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I knew.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so took the first job I was offered, which was a terrible job.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it was, I was a claims data analyst and I was processing slip and fall claims, 150 of them, in a computer, yeah, in a system, yeah, um, every single day for a year.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: That was my job.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I can tell you all the lessons I learned from that and what all those things.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but probably no one, no one my age with my education would take that job today, just to be clear.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, I had this era.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I did that for a year.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: I hated it so much, and we were like, let's see what happens.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I, a friend got me a job with her aunt's PR firm.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: I worked in PR for two years, beauty PR.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, helping people with their skin, it's so empowering, whatever.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, oh, the practicality of it is that I'm sitting here at 503, tearing my hair out, trying to get this flowers and gift to this editor at Vogue who doesn't give a fuck whether I live or die or whether she gets these flowers.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: She already got five flowers from bigger brands today.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: So what's this?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like I don't like this.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so I then so we're back, we're back to the like, I'm not creating real impact challenge.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: So then I went back into corporate.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and from there, that was kind of the longer stretch.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: I did, I did operations work, um, and I did corporate and then I did insure tech.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then that took me all the way through to starting my own thing in 2021.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: 21.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: I did my research.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, okay, great.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: So we've got we've got this era of like corporate with the goal, it sounds like of of sort of making money and creating stability for yourself so that you could then create that impact.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Or how were you generally, as you were making decisions in that first era, what were you prioritizing?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: I was prioritizing, um, and maybe you would see this for my content line.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I was like, I can't see.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm someone who on the subway, I wear heels.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be above the crowd.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I was like, I can't see.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm down with everyone else on here.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I how do I get up?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: How do I get perspective?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I grew up in a house with an executive dad.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I always had like his point of view from what I perceive to be a higher level.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, I need to be able to see, like, I don't understand what's going on, and how do I, what's my best path forward?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I was always honestly just trying to like see, like, how do I get information?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: How do I under like how who's making these decisions and how do I get to them?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: And how do they know who I am?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, um, yeah, it was it was, I wish I was a little more money focused at the time.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: I was not that money focused, but it was I was I thought I also thought it was baked into the thing.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like I thought, oh, I'll be 30 and working, and I'll have the money.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: It'll come, right?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because that was sort of what you were promised.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I thought.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe let's go to let's go back to 2020, which we all love to do.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: But like you're 2020, 2021.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: You're in.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me a little bit about the the mental space that you're in.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: It obviously something wasn't working.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Either, either you hadn't, you weren't reaching these goals that you thought you were gonna be reaching.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, where are you at mentally as you're forming this idea of like I'm maybe gonna do my own thing?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I had I was in a startup that I loved that I thought I would be in for a decade.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: It was an intro tech startup.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was number 10.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: I was doing operations work, reporting to the chief insurance officer, but I was head of culture.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I was really into that.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like I interviewed everyone, we were maybe 200, 250 people by 2020.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: I just I just woke up loving work every like I just loved it.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: Did I love every bit of the work?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: But I loved being there.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: I loved feeling like a part of something with all these people I thought were really smart.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: And um, we had a huge, like our product was really affected by COVID, and um the landlords, we were in renters, and the landlords had said you can't kick renters out, basically.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so this insurance product that we had became immediately really in trouble.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so the company laid off 50% of um, oh, I had just gotten a new job.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: I had decided I don't want to be in ops, and I definitely don't want to be in HR, even though I love this culture stuff.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: I need to be, I decided at 29, I need to be where the money is.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so I So at 29 you start to flip to make prioritized.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, because I'm looking around and I'm like, everyone else is like, like I I always took whatever was available.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: I never negotiated on the way in.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't understand you could, I didn't understand I should.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you didn't have anybody kind of guiding you through that.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, and and people will be like, oh, well, it's more equity.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think in hindsight, you know, the equity story, yeah.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I had just campaigned for six months to get a job on the revenue team.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: On at the same company.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so I they the revenue team because there were bonuses and there was cash comp.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: They built a role for me.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was like, let me just get on the money side of the house.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I was four weeks into that job.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: That was also my first six-figure salary.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: I was four weeks into that job and uh COVID happened.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: Our product was in trouble.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: We were uh laid off 50% of the org.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: My founders kept me, okay, but said that job no longer exists.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: You have a job, um, it's gonna be a piece together bunch of admin roles and it's gonna live in HR.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a 30 per 30k salary cut.
• 20:50
  unknown: Okay.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I have never I had one other time at work where I felt so small, but I felt very, very small there.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that they had like new bosses come in, like it was a whole, there was someone came in who I was reporting to who I hated.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell me what you mean by small?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um insignificant.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: Every like what does anything I do doesn't make any difference.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I'm like two inches tall and everyone else is 10 feet tall.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: And um you kind of have like that, must be one of my core things where like everyone else is doing something better, and I'm I'm stuck here because I didn't make the right decisions.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, and I was was I third, I was like 29 or 30.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: And 30 feel always feels like a big age too, where you're coming up.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I remember coming up on 30 and being like, am I like I'm supposed to be at this certain spot by the time I'm 30.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so you've I imagine there was some of that too.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think for our age, I thought 30, like I would be like married with a husband, lol.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And two kids, like you know, living a really adult life.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: House, yes, like want for nothing.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: At least comfortable.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in a saving for kids college.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, sure, sure.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know where I got that.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: I know where you got it.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: The media, parents, are their generation.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in like a studio.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, no, COVID.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: I moved.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: I and so I moved back home with my parents.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm during COVID.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: During COVID.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm co I'm in my parents' house.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in this job that pays nothing.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: That no one cares about.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing HR work, which I think is so silly.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I'm like, what the fuck?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: What the fuck did I get here?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt really defeated.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so I got this career coach that I could barely afford, but I got her anyway.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, How did you make that decision to get a career coach?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how did you make the decision to spend the money in that moment when money wasn't probably feeling?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I was like, someone needs to tell me what to do.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: I have effed this up.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: I've made a mess here.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't make any of the right choices.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Someone needs to tell me all the right choices to make so I can move on from this.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Was that your first time bringing in kind of like someone external to help you?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Or had your dad had your dad played that role at all for you up until that point?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, always played that role.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but mine was even, even though it sounded more traditional, still a less traditional career path than his.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: So navigating that, like we were still moving companies and in a startup, yeah.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: That you know, they didn't really know what startup environments were like.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: And um I had a lot of people who helped.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: I I had a lot of people who helped with work stuff, but that was the first time I run into someone who was their job professional, right?
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um and she was basically like, Well, I'm not gonna tell you what to do.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's not how this works.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Oh, okay, but here's the thing look at all the decisions I made here and all the decisions I want to make, and you tell me which ones are right and wrong.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: And she was like, Okay, this is not how this works at all.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so through my work with her, I realized I wanted to build my own thing.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: I thought I had just wanted to be in someone else's company doing operations, yeah.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: And um then I let that sit for a couple years uh until I was in a So did you continue doing that HR role while you were kind of ruminating on this idea that you maybe wanted to start your own thing?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I thought that's for future grace.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's a future grace problem.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like maybe.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what was it that that career coach helped you realize that led to that?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we went from like, oh, I'm an operations person to I probably want to start my own thing.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: What was the realization that happened in there that made that make sense for you?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really remember to be honest with you.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: I remember that this exercise she had me do that floored me.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: She was like, I need you to list your values and prioritize them.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's like what?
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: How could I?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: Even as a value-based person, that was like a new exercise for me.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: Prioritize.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think so.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: How could I possibly and put money in there somewhere?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Are you kidding?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, right, right.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: I had a lot of emotional baggage around that exercise in general.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Even even probably assigning money as a value.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Assigning money as a value, prioritizing family over friends or work over any of those, yeah, yeah, whatever.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like I, and my dad, I will say my dad's very introspective.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: My mom is not at all introspective.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so I land like somewhere in the middle.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was very jarring to do that exercise, but it was ultimately really helpful because I then I was like, oh, these are the things I care about.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: I always felt like there's a should.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like shoulds haunted me for my young adulthood.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: There's a should.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: I should be able to care about friends and this.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Ultimately, I decided it was like, it was like um like work it was like work family money or so.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was like something like that.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then that then you watch, then my life go goes in that direction.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: But um I don't remember what the turning point was where I I want my own, I want to build my own thing.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it was even someone just saying that could be a possibility.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so maybe it was that you hadn't even considered it.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like that you did you consider it at any point up until that, until that moment?
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like was there ever, did you have entrepreneurs in your life?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, had you ever.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: So my dad, funnily enough, had started his own law firm at 32, which is the same age I started my own company.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: So he had started that, ran it for several years, and then got acquired by a bigger law firm at some point.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: But he's very entrepreneurial.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, to to to be a lawyer in the traditional sense where you have you build your own book of business and you are almost always running your own business.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then yeah, when I'd play with my siblings, but I also thought this was older child.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be like, I'm the shop owner.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: These leaves are the money, and these are the products, and now you guys are gonna come in and you're the cash register, and this is how you do it.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like I did do a lot of that stuff, and then in college, I built my own live audience talk show.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, no way.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: And um, we didn't have mic's discount.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it was a different time.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was a different time.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: I built it and ran it.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: I convinced everyone to give me money for it.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: I got, I um got all the resources we needed.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: I got an audience, I got, I got departments to donate gift cards so that the audience members would have gift cards so I could convince people to come.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: Did it feel like work when you were doing that, or did that feel like a hobby?
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: That was the best.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: It was so fun.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: It was so fun.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: I threw my whole self-influence.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so you probably didn't even, you weren't even like, oh, I'm like founding a company here.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: It was probably like, I'm I'm doing this thing I really enjoy and like making it happen.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: No, and that's not work.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, if I had done that in this in the like 2020s season, I could have made a business out of it.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: A hundred percent could have made a business out of it.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was interviewing people who were doing cool things on the college campus, and it was a live audience talk show.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: There's this one girl who's such a character and everyone knew her, and she was so funny.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I got had a co-host who like everyone liked.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, was he in sports or was he just around?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't know.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: And we just um, but he was very different than me.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: He wasn't in my friend group, and so I knew enough to even like yeah pull all these different people together.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I went, there was like a guy who was like really popular on the basketball team, and I was like, you, you're gonna be a producer for me.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like I just like went up to him at a party.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, it was it was so fun, it was great.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you had the signs were there.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Talk to me about how it all started.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, uh, did it start with a TikTok?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: Did it start with a where if if I was like, what's the moment that it started?
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want the real story?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, the line of it.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't tell this story in public.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, we are in public.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: We will be in public eventually.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just you and me.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: There's no one else there.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yes, I want the real story.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I was working with for this second startup after I had left the one I loved.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: It was, I was like number three.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: There ended up being maybe six people, it was fully remote.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was such a bad fit.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I was so convinced, I was like, this is my ticket to the place I need to go.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: This is the stepping stone.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: This is finally me making the right decision.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it was such a bad fit, and I I knew it, and I hung on to it, and I wasn't a good fit for them.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like I they weren't a good fit for me, I wasn't a good fit for them.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's usually how it goes.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I hung on to it no matter what, and they eventually fired me.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: When in reality, I should have quit.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's I have a I have a feeling about people being fired, and you kind of know.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like you, you mostly it's no rarely out of left field.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so I should have quit before and I didn't find they fired me.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I was like, I do I know I'm gonna consult or something.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I can't go dive headfirst into someone else's company and learn everything.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I like I need a minute.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe this is the time to explore doing something.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: I go to enchantments on the lower east side, the magic shop, the witch side.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: The magic shop.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: I just assume not everyone's gonna know enchantments on the lower east side.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's probably the witch, the witch shop.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's in Sex in the City.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, they make they make custom candles for you.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, okay, I need a candle.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: I want to build something.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so willing to work for it.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited, like I will put everything into it.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: I do not have the idea.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: I just need the idea.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: So give me the idea.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I will work so hard at it.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so they made me this candle.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I put it in my bathtub and lit it for two weeks, as you do.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then about a week or two later, my dad was like, why don't you?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: It was great resignation, summer of great resignation.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't you help people keep their people?
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like this culture stuff, you've been accumulating these books for years.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: You talk about this stuff all the time.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't you see if you can help people keep their people?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: And um that was the spark.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: So we went from candle to idea.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: At idea, what's your first what's your first thing that you do?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: Do you remember?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I um collate all my research.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I have all these books and these research studies.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: I had been really interested in the psychology of culture, not the happy hour.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: How do you make people actually work better together, especially when you're resource constrained?
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so I started building this reference deck.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: From the reference deck, I build the first iteration of a workshop.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then I go out to every person I know who is an executive or has their own company or who I think might remotely have some helpful feedback, and I say, can I do this for free for you?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Can I, can I, would you give me an hour of your time?
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: Will you give me an hour of your time for a month?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I just start doing that.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: And collecting data, collecting feedback, tweaking, tweaking, tweaking, tweaking, tweaking.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then it was, it was probably six months of that.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then I go, okay, this is a company I can start.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like I got enough feedback.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then I LLC'd, and then I started talking about it on social media.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: So we're starting with workshops.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: That was your first sort of like you're like, I do workshops.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of the I the identity.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I did them one-on-one because that was easier to people.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: I could be like now.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: One-on-one with executives or like leaders.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: So you're doing workshops and then you move to social media as a distribution.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: Had you posted on social before?
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: Was that new for you?
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how did that tell me about that like three-month period where you're like, okay, I'm gonna do social?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what was that part like?
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: I had one person, Dave, he knows who he is, who I really trusted, who's a creator, creative director, and he said, This is cool.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: He actually bought one of my first programs.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is cool.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: No one will find it interesting unless your face is talking about it.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I went to LinkedIn and I made, if I could find this first LinkedIn video, I'll find it.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: I bet we'll find it.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: It was the most stiff, rambling, whatever thing.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: You would never see a video like it on there today.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what year are we in?
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: 22.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: 22.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I just started making videos and talking about what I was doing and posting it on LinkedIn.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: I got enough movement.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: Now, mind you, as I say this often, I made 18K that first year.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: So movement is relative.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: This is not one of those things where people are like 200, you know, MR.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: You made it the first year, yeah.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I got enough.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: And you were able to make 18k in your first year because you were living with your parents, right?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was living with my parents, because I had severance.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like I did have to put some money back into the business, you know, all the costs and whatever.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like I probably had 20k of savings that I used.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: And at any point were you like, maybe this isn't the right choice?
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Not until a later year.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: That year, no.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, whatever, I'll do whatever.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I the candle, the candle was burning inside you.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: I went nowhere, right?
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't go out to dinner, like I shut down my whole life.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: A huge thank you to my friends at Granola for sponsoring the Goodwork Talk Show.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: I started using Granola as just a note taker, but now I use it for every type of meeting and conversation, from quick check-ins to creative collaborations and everything in between.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: Granola is an AI notepad that transcribes meetings, whether online or in person, and it creates amazing summaries that you can chat with and you can ask follow-up questions to well after the meeting is over.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: As a busy person with a full-time job and a couple of side projects, I truly couldn't keep track of all of it without Granola.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: It helps me stay focused and stay present while still capturing all the details and the important to-dutes in the background.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: I even used it on all of these episodes, so you'll be able to check the notes for each show and chat with them just like you were sitting here with us.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: Granola also has features for following up and for drafting to-do lists.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: It definitely saves me from dropping balls and it helps me do what I say I'll do.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: The best way to check it out is to try it in your next meeting.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: To read the summary of today's show and chat with that summary, you can visit Cranola.ai slash goodwork.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're a new granola user, you'll get three months free.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: Again, that's Cranola.ai slash goodwork.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess one thing that's interesting is like, okay, so you're starting to post on social.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: I imagine your takes weren't quite as hot uh when you were starting to post on social as they are now.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: No, but I think I thought they were.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: You thought that they were.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so even when you were posting then, did you feel nervous?
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, was were you nervous about posting?
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: I've had to revisit this feeling because I it's easy to forget.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, of course.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like I would do something and be like, people are gonna hate it.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: So sorry.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: People are gonna hate it.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, culture's really important in your work.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: You're undervaluing it.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, like, you know what I mean?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: That was your hot take.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: I did you get negative pushback to your early videos, or was it a uh a pre sort of like anxiety about potentially getting negative pushback?
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Probably both.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: Negative pushback is strong.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: I got a lot of like, what are your credentials?
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: You with 1,000 followers talking about work.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what are your credentials?
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I would be like, I work with senior leaders.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, sure.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, who?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: We were faking it to you made it a little bit.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: We were storytelling.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: We were I I was working with senior leaders, but it was two and they were good friends of mine.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: Those sound like senior leaders to me.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so from then on, it you had taken this huge bet in sort of going out on your own.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: And you had some, you had like some safety nets and things like that, but not a ton, right?
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I imagine you were sort of doing this risk analysis as you were going.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: Can you talk me through a little bit of like your process around risk, taking bets, what paid off, what didn't, like how you kind of made decisions between then and now.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because for me, looking at your at your trajectory from then to now, it looks like a series of bets that were made that paid off.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I imagine that's an overly simplified sort of view of it.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: So would love to hear kind of what that felt like and what that looked like.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: I am someone who, to the best of my ability, I'm going to take a calculated risk.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I was home from COVID and I decided to stay home when I could have easily gone back and lived in an apartment.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to always have a safety net.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm not someone who's like, let's see how it goes.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: Fly by the sea in my pants.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I knew, okay, if I can stay at home and I don't have rent and I don't have bills, like if I can't afford my food in a month, like there will be food for me at the house.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I didn't want to put myself in a situation where I would be destitute.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: I also started bartending.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: So after my first year.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: I love your bartending stories.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: They're so good.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think everyone should bartend.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this is what I this is one of the things I learned about you early with your tarot reading because you used to tell me that you would tarot read for the guys that you worked with at the bar.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I found that charming.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: They love it.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: And don't let them tell you any different.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would and I would read like I went to parties and read tarot and got paid$200.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like I did everything.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: I cooked for people.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: I was there any like ego death that needed to happen there?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: There was a girl from my grammar school who showed up at the bar one night eating with her husband.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I had a moment, you know, and from the fancy Grand Edge High School?
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: No, from the other one.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I think we all have those moments where you think like, if you grew up in a town and you left it, I'm better than that.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right, sure.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you have a little bit of that.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing big things.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: And and the bar you were bartending at was in your hometown.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I wasn't better than that, by the way.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I wasn't doing big things.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: I was working at a tech startup in Manhattan, you know, with a teeny tiny studio in the West Village.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, fine.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: I was like a mid-tier.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: And um I remember seeing her, and I was like, oh well, I'm here because I'm running, I have my own business and I'm doing that.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I actually don't even think I said that to her.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think I went through it in my head and then I just was like, hey, I'd love to get you guys a drink on me.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: Good to see you.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think then I just decided not to explain.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then I just decided not to explain.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that just was your strategy moving forward?
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: That was my strategy moving forward.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because people used to be like, and it it shows how prejudiced people can be.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I'd be behind the bar, people would think I was the owner.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, or they would be like, What are you doing here?
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I would be like, Oh, well, I own my own business.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm doing this.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, the business I was making 18k, whatever.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then you're just like, actually, who cares?
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: Who cares?
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: Was that you self-talking and talking yourself into that, or was there something that happened to make you realize like who cares?
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: It was probably a bunch of things.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: I probably, it there probably was an ego death where I thought I was hot shit.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, before I'm in my West Village apartment, I'm dating cute girls, I'm doing this, I'm doing that, I work in this cool tech startup, the equity is gonna really mean something one day.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: And none of that meant anything.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: In the grand scheme of things, none of it meant anything.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I realized that in COVID.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: I realized that as I let the the world get smaller.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: COVID smaller.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: COVID did some horrible things and also sent them.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: And some good things for people, yeah.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it was it was really, really good exercise for me.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: I actually think that probably helped me more on social than anything else, that ego death.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: That does feel like a good primer for going and just putting yourself out there time and time again.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I imagine it's reps too, right?
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like just repetition and like getting the get getting practice.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um okay, can you talk to I know there's a lot of people watching that are probably like, wow, I would love to have an audience the size of yours, or I would love to be able to create impact though at the scale that Grace does, or you know, they they see where you're at and they would love, there are parts of it that they aspire to.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm always big on like when we do advice, I want it to be like super tactical of like what are what are like one or two things that they should be doing right now, yeah, if that's something that they want to be doing.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I think a couple things.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: When when I hear these podcasts, people talk about taking bets on themselves and taking risks.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to mean starting your own company.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of my audience is people who don't ever want to start their own companies or don't want to do it until they're 50.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: So taking bets on yourself could be going out of your way to try and create a relationship with someone at work who you know is going to work on a project next year that you want to be on.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_00: Or who you know has access to someone else that you want to have a relationship with.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: Or it could be taking a loan time, your own time to learn something and then going to pitch that thing, hey, I learned this new thing.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: AI, you know, is a great example of that.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: Can I work this into my work?
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: Can I work this into a project?
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, or one of my favorites, sending the scary email.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: Send the scary email.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: Just reaching out to people.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: Reach out to people, go to the event.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: Without this idea that, like, go to the event when you're not desperate.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: Go to the event and just see what, like, go to a wedding alone.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, do stuff where and I also think small bets.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: People feeling like taking bets on themselves has to be this huge, like egocentric.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so great and I'm so amazing, and I'm gonna make this thing happen and everyone's gonna love me.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it no, it's not.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, can you just get out of your own way?
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: And do something that might better someone else.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, if somebody wants to build an audience on social, what's like the one piece of what would you ask them?
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, well, are you doing this right now?
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: Are you putting content?
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: Are you posting?
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: Are you posting?
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: And the posting, like I'll say this until I'm blue in the face.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: It you cannot be talking about you.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: Stop fucking talking about you.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's what everyone is doing.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I teach people to do this, I see people doing this all the time.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: Stop talking about yourself.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so many of the people watching this think that you are extraordinary because of your audience, because of your impact, because of the numbers, because of all these things.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that?
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that you are unusual or extraordinary?
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: God, that's so such a crazy question.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think so?
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: You think you're really pretty?
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, no, I think I am lucky.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think I've been in the right place at the right time.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: Finally, I'm in my 20s, I was not.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think I've been able to get out of my own way.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: The point of the question is to show people that there's nothing as special as I think you are.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing inherently magical about you.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: You have gone through many of the same things that so many people have, and there are just certain factors that come into play.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, last one, because this is a talk show about work.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: As you look forward to the next couple of years, I think it's silly to look beyond that because who knows?
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: But what do you want out of work now?
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like what is your what are your priorities now as you choose what to work on and what to spend your time on?
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: I want to keep getting better at what I'm doing.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be really, really sharp at what I'm doing.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to be doing all the same things.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: I want to have my community, I want to be doing the keynotes, I want to be doing the workshops, I want to be doing the content.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to get like five levels more elevated on all of them.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you're in your like really get good at this thing era.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I love that for you.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: This was wonderful.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: This was extended.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: If people are learning about you for the first time on this, like where can they find you?
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: Where can they learn more about what you're up to?
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: I would go to gracemacarrick.com and you can find all the links on there.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, we'll include links wherever they might be.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um amazing.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you for watching, and um, this has been good work.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yay!