Latest / Women Disrupting Tech / Permissionless Inclusion, One Meal at a Time with Yasmina Khababi | Ep. 126

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Permissionless Inclusion, One Meal at a Time with Yasmina Khababi | Ep. 126 · Women Disrupting Tech

0:10
Welcome to Women Disrupting Tech.
0:13
My name is dear Kanupkas, and on this podcast, I give the women
0:16
who work in tech the platform they need to inspire and empower
0:20
each other. Join me on a journey into the
0:23
world of entrepreneurship, funding biases, and role models
0:28
to discover the strategies for success in the tech industry.
0:32
In other words, how women can disrupt tech.
0:36
Are you ready to listen? Hey, welcome back to Women
0:45
Disrupting Tech and thank you for tuning in to Episode 126.
0:52
My guest today is Yasmina Kababi.
0:54
And as you'll learn, Yasmina is an extremely mission driven
0:58
woman who's passionate about food, connecting people, and
1:01
building something that solves for systemic inequality.
1:06
When Yasmina studied climate change and refugee crisis, she
1:10
got frustrated because her fellow students cared about one
1:14
problem or the other, but almost never about both.
1:20
Yasmina saw the link, and she realized that food could connect
1:24
it to that insight was the start of her journey as an
1:27
entrepreneur and of her company, Fresh Table.
1:31
In this episode of Women Disrupting Tech, Yasmina shares
1:34
how she uses food to build a company based on permissionless
1:38
inclusion. By listening, you'll discover
1:41
how she builds a platform that is bigger than herself, why
1:45
inclusion is not about identity but about identifying talent,
1:50
and what it means when she says that founders need to treat
1:53
their minds as a sanctuary. Plus, you'll hear how she uses
1:57
her geographical luck to give others access to opportunity and
2:02
how you can do that too. Before we start, I want to
2:09
highlight an event that embrace health organizers on free
2:13
December 2025 at Equals in Amsterdam titled Understanding
2:18
Women's Health. As you know, I'm really
2:21
passionate about this topic and about the need for everyone to
2:25
learn more about how Women's Health works and how it is
2:28
different from the health of men.
2:30
If you visit this event as a man or a woman, it will help you to
2:35
better understand Women's Health and how it impacts energy, mood,
2:38
productivity, and overall well-being at every stage of
2:42
life. For more information and
2:44
tickets, please check out the link in the show notes or search
2:48
for Understanding Women's itself in the Lumia app.
2:53
With that, we're ready to listen and learn how Yasmina Kababi is
2:58
building permissionless inclusion one meal at a time
3:02
with fresh table. Please welcome to Whim
3:04
disrupting tech Yasmina Kababi. Yasmina Kababi, good morning.
3:10
Good to have you. An honor to have you.
3:15
Welcome to Women Disrupting Tech.
3:17
First question I have is you're the founder of Freshstable and I
3:23
read somewhere that that starts with you sitting in a lecture.
3:30
Correct. Yeah.
3:31
I am the founder of Freshstable, which I started in 2020, so five
3:37
years ago while I was still studying international public
3:41
administration. And the topics we were
3:43
discussing were always about climate change and societal
3:46
issues that we can solve. And many of these issues were
3:50
discussed and actually inspired me to start my business.
3:54
So it was actually student founded.
3:57
Yeah, Corporation. At some point.
4:00
I was very frustrated about how people were dealing these topics
4:05
and it didn't really lead to any solutions.
4:07
And I saw different camps existing, so people were really
4:10
thinking in boxes and labels how some would really be annoyed and
4:15
care about things that involve climate change.
4:18
And the same people could not care any less when it came to
4:22
refugees, for example, or just basic human rights.
4:25
And that really didn't click with me because I was like, both
4:28
of those things are super important.
4:30
So how can we connect them and make sure that it's just normal
4:34
that we care about both of these things?
4:36
You should care about people and planet.
4:39
And then food became the instant connector between those two.
4:43
OK, except for food. What what is the connection
4:46
between the two topics? Because I I think, I think I
4:51
have a clue, but. Yeah, so food has been part of
4:55
my life since forever. I think just growing up, I have
5:00
a Moroccan heritage, but I was born and raised in the
5:02
Netherlands. Food always plays a really big
5:05
cultural role of really connecting people together.
5:08
I grew up with three sisters, so there's always some bickering at
5:11
home, but whenever my mom would serve the food on the table, it
5:13
would be quiet, would all just enjoy the meal.
5:16
And that's very symbolic for different opinions and different
5:19
causes that are happening around the world.
5:22
We can all still connect over simple things because at the end
5:24
of the day, we are still human. All of us will still bleed, but
5:27
we also are still hungry. So I think that was like the
5:31
basics of it. And then after that, one of my
5:33
first jobs was in the food sector.
5:36
I've been in that sector since I was 15, so I also worked as a
5:40
sushi chef for quite some time. And all those combinations have
5:44
really inspired me to really link that together.
5:48
OK, and but but the link between climate and and refugees.
5:55
What? What is that?
5:56
It's a very obvious one, actually.
5:58
I think people really underestimate how much these two
6:01
have to do together. So living in the West, we
6:05
consume a lot. And that's just, it's not a
6:07
discussion point. We consume a lot and that also
6:09
comes from different places. But when we look at refugees, a
6:12
large part of them are also climate refugees where we use a
6:16
lot of their resources when it comes to all just to produce
6:19
plastic, those kind of things. And that also leads to certain
6:24
influxes of migration, People are having to leave their homes
6:27
because they're flooded, etcetera, etcetera.
6:29
So it's really interconnected in that sense, but also in
6:33
different ways. When we think about climate
6:35
change, you really often only look at it from one perspective
6:40
also when we look at sustainability.
6:41
But I think if we strip down things and really remove labels,
6:45
sustainability has been within us as human beings for the
6:48
longest times, and especially in the Global South.
6:53
So people that we now come to be refugees really have a lot of
6:56
those sustainable practices that are more than normal.
6:59
So just a simple explanation. Or for people that are at home,
7:04
if you're cooking and you have some leftovers, you
7:06
automatically probably would save them for the next day.
7:09
Those are sustainable practices or as my grandma used to do, is
7:13
saving all those plastic bags under the sink.
7:16
She's one of the most sustainable people that I know.
7:18
But if I would tell her that she's a sustainable person, she
7:20
would look at me like, what does that mean?
7:21
Like I I'm not sustainable or turning down the lights or not
7:26
showering that long. Those kind of things are all
7:28
part of sustainable practices. And I see them being often
7:32
performing more in the global South.
7:34
So I feel like if we talk about climate change, we also should
7:38
involve the influx of people in that and they should go hand in
7:41
hand. OK.
7:43
But does that then also mean that if we sort of become more
7:51
sustainable in the in the West, that we get less influx from
7:57
refugees because climate doesn't deteriorate anymore and
8:02
therefore people don't have a reason to leave?
8:05
No, not at all. I think it's just one of the
8:08
links. But I think the the issue at
8:10
hand is much bigger than that. There's so many parts of that
8:12
and there's different types of refugees, people that flee
8:15
politically and common is just one of those reasons.
8:19
But I do think, and it's more like in a political sense is
8:22
that if we really focus more on our likeliness instead of our
8:29
differences, maybe certain influxes wouldn't be named
8:33
refugee crisis anymore and we just be people migrating for
8:36
better opportunities. And we would actually embrace
8:38
this instead of seeing it as something that is societal issue
8:42
that we have to deal with. So I'm like really trying to
8:46
look at that in, in that sense that if you would care more
8:51
about the climate and about people, certain issues would not
8:54
exist. And doesn't mean that people are
8:56
not moving around because that has been happening since for
8:59
centuries. But I think it would be more
9:01
focused on what can we learn from each other.
9:04
And I think that's also something that we really try to
9:06
install in Fresh Table because we work with predominantly
9:09
former refugees, but also with different kind of subgroups
9:13
where we really focus on what's your talent and how can we
9:17
contribute to each other's lives and how can we really make the
9:20
world a better place together. So it's not really focusing on
9:23
the label. You are a former refugee or you
9:25
are this and that. It's just what are your talents
9:27
and how can we really stimulate that?
9:30
OK. How did you come up with that
9:32
model and? Yeah, I there's not some kind of
9:36
a genius plan behind it, to be honest.
9:39
There's different factors. So maybe to really explain Fresh
9:42
Table in short is that we provide business catering for
9:46
events and we do that with meals that really impact the world on
9:50
a sustainable sense on food accessibility sense and in the
9:55
terms of inclusivity of people in the labor market.
9:58
So those are the three core values.
10:00
And in a short example, that would mean if you have an event
10:04
at corporate X, we would take care of the catering because you
10:07
take catering from us instead of another catering party, you
10:10
actually help people on planet become better.
10:12
So that's in short what we do. And how I came up with that is I
10:15
really wanted to instill those 3 core values because as I just
10:19
explained, I don't believe in just thinking in those boxes.
10:22
I really want to interconnect those 3 and make it more normal.
10:27
So during my studies, I was really looking at these topics
10:31
from policy level, but it's just one lens.
10:34
But at the same time, I did a lot of volunteer work.
10:36
So as part of Ms. International, for example, I travelled a lot
10:40
to perform decision volunteer work abroad.
10:44
And that really brought me into more the practical perspective
10:48
and actually see what these policies mean and why they would
10:51
or would not work. And that's where I did some
10:53
volunteer work in a local spot where we would cook every week
10:58
with former refugees. And I remember one time asking
11:01
them, do you do you like doing this?
11:03
And I said, yeah, I'm really grateful to some of what I
11:06
asked, do you like doing this? And then I got back.
11:09
Well, actually I feel useless in society cause I've been in the
11:15
Nevis for more than six years. But I'm actually bank director,
11:18
I'm an engineer. I have knowledge of tech, for
11:22
example. And I hear like all these
11:23
different stories and people that have high degrees and
11:26
masters, but they're not able to perform their work in the
11:28
Netherlands just because your diploma is not accredited
11:33
according Western standards. And that really struck something
11:36
to me. So what I did was researching
11:38
them back on policy level. Is there something that's
11:41
against the law of allowing me to hire people based on the
11:45
degrees that they obtain in their own country?
11:47
And I couldn't find anything. And I thought then what the
11:51
heck, why not? Why not start a business that
11:53
would actually allow people to have their work here and assist
11:58
them in customizing to the Dutch standards of that.
12:01
So if somebody, for example, we had an bookkeeper from Egypt
12:07
that came here and had the hardest time searching for a
12:09
job, and then we offer him an apprenticeship slash internship
12:13
where we actually can assist him with customizing to the Dutch
12:17
taxiles, for example. But he's still performing his
12:20
work and knowledge. So it's an equal opportunity for
12:23
both parties to really exchange information.
12:26
And to be honest, we actually gained so much more from them
12:29
and we learned so much more from them than we could ever offer
12:32
them. So that was really where it came
12:35
from. And personally, that's just my
12:37
story. I really hate sitting in
12:41
frustration. I feel like it's a waste of
12:42
time. I, I get to be frustrated once
12:45
and then you have to take action.
12:47
So either you shut up about it or you take action.
12:48
That's really how that business came to life.
12:51
And I was thinking about this group of people that I really
12:54
wanted to see be advanced more, not thinking of the sense of
12:58
helping others because I feel like self efficacy and really
13:02
empowering people, that's the key to the future.
13:05
And not having that mindset or of unhelping others because it
13:09
also puts yourself in the ego sense at a front as a founder.
13:15
And I'd rather have a team where people believe in their own
13:17
leadership skills and they can grow.
13:19
So that's really the basics behind from my perspective.
13:23
Why is that important to you? To not not be helping, but
13:27
giving. Yeah, because I've experienced
13:30
the part where you're helping, but what's actually happening is
13:36
that you are also feeling your ego, which is it's common to
13:39
human sense like it happens to everyone.
13:42
Short examples that I lived in Brazil for a while when I did a
13:45
lot of volunteer work with kids that were living in favela.
13:47
So we're predominantly focusing on preventing child prostitution
13:51
and, and those kind of things. But what I could sense is
13:55
whenever I went away or went back home, some things would
13:58
stop or the kids would miss you and something would not advance.
14:02
And I think that's a really humbling experience to know that
14:07
some kind of aid and advancement of people's lives should not be
14:10
dependent on your presence. And I think if you really want
14:13
to create an impact as a leader, a good leader in my terms is
14:17
measured by the amount of leaders that you create.
14:19
So Fast forward like 10 years later, now we also have a
14:22
foundation with Fresh Stable and we focus more on really
14:26
empowering those kids in starting their own social
14:29
enterprises, starting their own business.
14:31
And I think that's really a difference because I also tell
14:34
people and even like within the organization when it comes to
14:36
former refugees, my goal and my dream is that you do not need me
14:41
or us to advance and that you will become a leader of the
14:44
future. And I think if you teach a man
14:47
how to fish, that's like the basic saying.
14:50
I think that's right. It's really important to me on a
14:52
leadership sense. And personal wise, I am really
14:57
mission oriented. So when I turned 19, before that
15:00
I was studying international business.
15:03
I was good at it, but I didn't like it and it was because I was
15:06
still missing something. We're always counting the
15:07
profits and the Net margin, whatever.
15:10
And I was always wondering, OK, but what's happened to the
15:13
people? How are they treated and what
15:14
can we do for the planet? And at some point, I think
15:16
teachers were really tired of it 'cause we're, we have 600 more
15:19
students, we're just counting the profit here.
15:22
But for me, it became really important to really think beyond
15:25
profit. What's what's going on there?
15:26
So it's really the mission behind it.
15:28
And I think combining those two, I really care about creating the
15:32
next generation of leaders and empowering people that have been
15:36
minoritized. So they're not minorities in my
15:39
eyes, but they've been minoritized by media standards,
15:43
people's opinions. So yeah, that's a very long
15:45
answer. I don't know, I, I, I there's a
15:49
couple of Nuggets that I want to pick up on.
15:55
One is what influence did your upbringing have because you have
16:03
a special philosophy about geographic, geographical look.
16:08
Can you explain that and then build on that to to explain a
16:12
bit how you were raised and how that plays into what you do
16:16
right now of? Course, so I was raised in a
16:20
very loving home that was always open and caring for others and
16:24
it would be weird if there's not somebody new sitting at the
16:27
table, for example so I was always bringing somebody home
16:29
that I just met at the bus stop. But that's also something that
16:32
my mom installed in US. But also I think even before
16:36
that, my grandparents were always welcoming people, whole
16:39
families that were staying with them for weeks.
16:41
And I think they made it so normal that I was never
16:45
questioning why that was happening.
16:47
It's just there's an open door. And it got stuck to me that we
16:52
all just have geographical luck in this world.
16:55
We are lucky that we're born here and that's somewhere else
16:58
in a war-torn country. You just have that luck of being
17:01
born in some place that offers you more opportunities.
17:03
And I think it's important in life to not only use that dog,
17:06
but also appreciate it and give on to others that are not that
17:11
blessed with that luck. And I think really centralizing
17:14
that in in life is is really important to me.
17:17
And it's, it just became something that's really
17:20
completely normal in my book to open your doors and welcome
17:23
somebody at your table, even figuratively, but also when it
17:25
comes down to your business, giving more opportunities to
17:28
people that are often not seen and really sharing that luck
17:31
that I was blessed to have. And I would not describe myself
17:35
as a minority, but I am a woman, I'm a woman of colour, I am
17:39
Muslim. And even despite those things, I
17:42
still have my privileges as well because I studied in the West, I
17:45
have my master's degree and I am an entrepreneur.
17:48
So maybe there's different fields that I still can also
17:51
pass that luck on on people that may not have that same luck.
17:55
Yeah, so you do death. Why don't altarsh?
18:04
Here's a good question. Yeah, it depends.
18:08
I think it's not a way of not wanting to do that because what
18:14
we realize that a lot of people want to do good.
18:16
I feel like people inherently, that's always the question,
18:19
right? Like the goose in the egg.
18:21
Like are people good from the essence or does everybody have
18:25
some bad in them? I think people in general really
18:28
want to do something good. They often just don't know how
18:31
and what you can really see with Fresh Table, for example, we
18:36
really believe in making our customers the hero on this
18:40
mission. Fresh Table is just a
18:42
facilitator of that story. We always see ourselves as the
18:44
platform. We never want to be seen as the
18:46
hero. But also me as a founder, I
18:49
don't want to be centralized like that.
18:51
We are just a platform that really helps you create an
18:53
impact. So we facilitate, for example,
18:56
for corporates like a Bank X for example, that wants to hold an
19:00
event for them to choose for us instead of their standard
19:03
caterer means they're choosing impact because often they have
19:07
these long term contracts with people for like 10 years.
19:10
And then we've seen a lot of times that they would switch out
19:13
just to go with us because we create an impact.
19:15
So it's an active choice to really make a difference.
19:18
So in that sense, you want to facilitate that.
19:21
And a really good example of that is we have a share meal
19:24
campaign. It's been running since the
19:26
first year and that was actually founded in because I started
19:31
Fresh Table a week before COVID, which is perfect timing as a
19:34
social enterprise in the food sector and completely bootstrap.
19:38
So no regrets. But a good lesson there is that
19:42
we had a lot of products still laying there, packaging and
19:46
people, but there were no orders coming in because of the
19:48
regulations. So restaurants were opening,
19:50
then our sales went down and then so it went like that the
19:53
whole time. And then I thought, OK, let's
19:55
see what we can actually do. But it was still a lot of
19:57
elderly people that are living very confined.
20:00
So what can we do to contribute to them?
20:02
And had a lot of friends abroad and a lot of support.
20:05
And they actually said, what can we not donate something?
20:07
And that really didn't feel that good to me because I thought,
20:10
how can I really incorporate this into the business?
20:13
And that's how share a Meal was born.
20:15
So that means that you can buy, for example, hamburger and
20:20
instead of 1, you buy 2. One goes to you and the other
20:22
one goes to somebody in need. And because we have the skills,
20:26
the resources and the knowledge locally, so we know exactly
20:30
because of our experience, We work a lot with the homeless
20:33
shelter, but also with the refugee center, some women
20:37
asylum seeker center. So there's really different
20:40
networkings that we have built up in the past years that people
20:43
might feel more anxious to get into.
20:45
So we use that skill and we use all that knowledge to facilitate
20:49
for others to do good. Because we really realized from
20:52
a lot of conversations that I've personally with a lot of people
20:54
is I really want to do something similar, but I just don't know
20:57
how. So we try to be an example of
21:00
how you can really make it easy to help another person.
21:03
So that year we started with around 300 meals that were
21:06
donated and Fast forward to 2025 for over 14,000 meals and it's
21:11
still counting and it's we're just facilitating that.
21:14
We're not the ones that are responsible for all this
21:19
goodness that it's creating. It's actually the customers
21:21
themselves. And I think it's really
21:24
important in life to understand the role of being a bridge and
21:28
facilitating doing good for others.
21:30
And I think that's, yeah, the gist in it.
21:33
Yeah, and that's and that's what clearly you're doing.
21:38
So there's another thing about the the fresh table business
21:41
model that I was wondering about you.
21:43
You gave the example of the Egyptian bookkeeper.
21:48
So this guy is not this guy knows bookkeeping.
21:51
That's I don't think general booking keeping practices are
21:57
that different from Egypt to to the Netherlands, except for tax
22:02
of course. But how do you work in terms of
22:08
accreditation? Because that's the underlying
22:11
issue that he has, that his accreditation doesn't fit our
22:15
accreditation. How do you deal with that?
22:18
And how do you sit? On the back of that, how do you
22:22
put people on on a journey on on the path to getting locally here
22:29
fully accredited? Yeah, that's a good question.
22:33
So it's twofold when Fresh Table actually started the Fresh
22:37
Academy. And so we have different
22:39
apprenticeships and internships starting from 8 weeks and it's
22:43
an equally yoked relationship. So we review each other.
22:48
So for example, another person, we had an IT guy from Syria who
22:55
actually did his masters there and he's still studying here to
22:58
regain different degrees in IT, but he does our website for
23:02
example, or anything in the back end.
23:06
And importing that role is that we evaluate each other on an
23:08
equal level because accreditation doesn't only come
23:11
from us or the system and also comes from just one person that
23:15
believes in that person. We also have a lot of people
23:18
that actually did an apprenticeship with us and then
23:21
later on started working somewhere else without having
23:23
that Dutch degree. But because there was 1 Dutch
23:27
company such as Fresh Table that actually believes in them, it
23:31
also gives them more backing. So not all of them get an
23:33
accreditation. What we try to do is really help
23:36
them with the fresh Academy that's still evolving.
23:38
We're working on new programs where you can actually get,
23:42
yeah, some extra certifications that can help in the Dutch
23:46
labour market. But at the same time, we also
23:48
believe in the power of having somebody behind you within the
23:52
nether that has a certain influence.
23:54
We have a really large network as yeah, I delivered to the in
23:59
the B2B sector. So a lot of those corporates are
24:02
our clients. So if somebody's looking for a
24:04
job, we are the first referee that you could put down because
24:08
they were part of that. So the accreditation works
24:10
twofold. So we have it within the Academy
24:12
to a certain degree, but also us backing the people that have
24:16
worked with us. And important to notice in that
24:18
is that there is a lot of organizations in the Netherlands
24:21
that work with refugees in terms of offering them a working
24:24
experience here. For us, the main goal is not to
24:28
actually place them somewhere else.
24:30
That's just a side effect of it. But I'd rather see people
24:34
starting with us, for example, in those eight weeks, actually
24:39
climb on that career ladder in the same organization so they
24:42
can actually become a leader. Because I think that is still a
24:45
main issue if I look at the Dutch landscape in this matter.
24:50
So we have a lot of companies that provide opportunities for
24:53
refugees, but it just ends with hiring them.
24:55
And then we can mark them as a check.
24:57
OK, so we have a lot of people that have a refugee background
25:01
check, but we're not really looking at what happens to them.
25:04
Do they advance on their career ladder?
25:05
And the same goes for back in the days, just hiring women.
25:09
So we hired a lot of women, but why are they still doing?
25:12
Are they in the boardroom or are they still in the productive
25:14
area? And I think that's really
25:15
important when we talk about diversity and inclusivity and
25:18
really the difference between those two.
25:20
So diversity is just hiring them and making sure they have a job
25:23
and inclusivity is really seeing that they are included in
25:27
growing their role within the company and they are actually
25:30
feel valued. So those two things are the most
25:32
important in that and us back in them I think is the most
25:36
important accreditation they could have.
25:38
Do you see a shift in that from diversity to inclusion in the
25:44
employers? You work with.
25:45
Yeah, I do. But I also believe that I
25:49
personally live in a certain bubble.
25:51
Of course, we are a social enterprise.
25:53
So I don't know if my opinion on that would be so unbiased
25:57
because we are surrounded with companies.
25:59
Most of our clients, for example, they come to US 70%.
26:03
It's because of the impact that we make, but also on the other
26:07
side, 30% just comes to us because they know of the quality
26:09
of the food and things that we serve and then they stay for the
26:12
impact. So the story is always twofolded
26:14
of how we attract certain customers.
26:16
Some come for the story in it and stay for the food.
26:18
Some come for the food and they stay for the story.
26:21
So I do see a slight change in that, but not enough yet.
26:26
I hope that we can really advance that and really start
26:29
talking with people rather than just about them.
26:32
Yeah, what What is the more the broader societal change that you
26:36
want, the impact that you want to make?
26:41
My dream vision is that we don't even need terms like diversity,
26:45
inclusion, sustainability. We don't need different
26:50
departments for that and set them up because it would become
26:53
normal. And that is my dream vision in a
26:56
nutshell. And it's also why when I founded
26:58
Fresh Table, I instilled them in my core values because I want
27:02
them to be a no brainer. There's no decision that we make
27:05
business wise. We had a lot of talks with
27:08
potential investors that reached out to us, but all of these
27:11
decisions would always come into the three pillars of
27:15
inclusivity, sustainability and food accessibility.
27:18
If it doesn't fit one of those, it should go out.
27:21
And my dream vision is that we create more startups and
27:24
hopefully more corporations that see these things as non
27:27
brainers. And it would actually be weird
27:29
for you to not do something with exhibity or diversity or
27:32
sustainability rather than being, And again, I'm really
27:36
grateful for that, but rather than being super acknowledged
27:39
for everything that you do in that sense.
27:41
Yeah, so, so I was wondering, I think you're bootstrapped,
27:46
right? Yeah.
27:49
Correct so far on purpose or you just didn't meet right?
27:55
It was definitely on purpose, maybe a little ego too know what
28:00
I mean? I just also wanted to prove that
28:03
it is possible. It is possible.
28:05
I started as a student, I was full time studying.
28:07
I was also working in the office and then starting my business at
28:12
the same time doing a lot of volunteer work.
28:15
I wanted to really show the world and also show people that
28:19
it is possible. It's not some kind of idealistic
28:22
thinking. We can actually make a profit
28:24
and make the planet better because I still make a profit
28:27
and I don't want to be seen. That's also why we started the
28:29
foundation. I want to be seen as just some
28:32
kind of charity 'cause we are commercial business, we have a
28:35
business model that sells things and I also wanted to show that
28:39
you can do this independently. It actually has it is
28:42
advantages. We have our own customers, it's
28:44
growing, we may break even and even like surviving that during
28:49
COVID also says a lot. And for me, looking back now, I
28:54
think five years later, now we're open to talks with
28:56
investors or possible subsidiaries from the government
29:00
and the tables have actually turned.
29:01
So it's really nice to set those tables because they're actually
29:04
reaching out to us. So they're like, how can we help
29:06
you? And then I asked, well, give me
29:08
a presentation, show me what you can do for us because it's not
29:11
the other way around. I'm not going there empty handed
29:14
and asking them and really having to prove what we've done
29:17
because we've actually proven that we've we've been existing
29:20
for five years due to one of the most tougher times for
29:23
businesses and having Bootstrap that also shows that we are
29:27
commercial viable organization. It's not something that we're
29:31
just believing that does good and it still has to be proven.
29:34
We actually have a model that works, and I think that was
29:38
really what I wanted to prove with bootstrapping.
29:40
That and also give an example to other entrepreneurs, whether it
29:43
be women or just people that are interested in creating an
29:46
impact. It is possible if you believe in
29:49
it. I wouldn't per SE say that
29:51
everybody has to bootstrap it. I also really believe in yeah
29:56
funding at some point, but that was just the promise that I made
30:00
to myself. OK, let's go first to the you
30:06
don't want to call a charity. I'm going to just call a charity
30:10
for for the moment you have a foundation that are funded by
30:18
the business that you run, right?
30:22
So how does that ultimately then also pay into your vision to?
30:30
Have no that part of the foundation.
30:33
You can definitely curl a charity.
30:34
That's why we really have those two entities.
30:40
Yeah. Please, please, please describe
30:42
first what they do. So we only have the fresh table
30:44
foundation and that's the one that we have next to fresh
30:47
tables. Our fresh table is a commercial
30:48
part and then the fresh table foundation.
30:52
Basically, there's not a really enlightening story behind.
30:55
It's just because we had with share, we made so many numbers
30:58
that we never expected. Our accountant at some point
31:02
said good story, but start doing that on a different account.
31:05
This doesn't belong to the commercial use.
31:07
So that's where we started the foundation.
31:09
And then the second part is where I just mentioned about
31:12
really my own vision for leadership and self efficacy.
31:16
So that's why the Fresh stable foundation also is investing in
31:19
that. We really believe in investing
31:22
in the next generation of impact creators and I think it's also
31:27
our responsibility. I, I just turned 30, I'm not
31:30
that old yet, but also not that young.
31:32
And I think we should really think about the next generation
31:34
of the ones that are creating an impact.
31:37
So that's why with Fresh Table foundation focuses on food
31:40
accessibility at 1 and that's where a percentage of Fresh
31:44
Table comes in as a donation. It's always 30% of the profit at
31:49
least. And I did that.
31:51
I really incorporate that in the model because now it really
31:56
depends on how many people you can help by the commercial
31:59
success that you make. And I really wanted to make this
32:02
and it's just, I think it's just a personal vision as well on
32:04
that. I really wanted to make it the
32:09
end goal to really help other people.
32:11
That's the end goal of it all. And yes, we make money, yes, we
32:14
make profit in the meantime. But the end goal is that the
32:17
foundation should not just be running on donations externally,
32:21
but also from the business because those two should go up
32:24
hand in hand. So the more commercial success
32:26
you make, the more you can help other people.
32:28
And that we would never like turn the other one down.
32:31
And that should also be leveled. So that's the reason behind it.
32:35
OK, cool. So how do customers and mentors
32:39
keep you on the right path to getting to the to execute on the
32:45
vision? That's a good question.
32:47
I think in mentors I I learned a lot from gaining feedback, but
32:53
also accepting different perspectives and and visions.
32:58
And most important is that just me as a founder, I also learned
33:02
a lot and being open to being wrong sometimes and really
33:05
challenging your own perspectives because we are in
33:08
this social domain that has been called very woke in in media,
33:12
for example, people expect for you to be little thought leader,
33:16
but you're not and often you are wrong.
33:18
So also always challenging my own perspectives.
33:21
And mentors can take formal different forms.
33:24
So the employees that work at fresh table are also my mentors
33:27
in a sense and the people that we try to help with the
33:29
foundation. I think it's like in that they
33:32
keep you in check and I think it's important to have people
33:35
around you that also let you know when you're wrong or when
33:39
you're thinking needs to be challenged.
33:41
Because whenever you always have yay Sayers next to you, you're
33:44
not in the right environment. You also need people that are
33:47
challenging your views. So I think in that sense, and
33:51
with their customers as well, they often bring us to new
33:54
perspectives. They have really creative ideas
33:56
of what they want and that challenges us to think outside
33:59
the box because of our customers.
34:01
We constantly grow and we came up, for example, with an impact
34:04
station that really allows for the residual waste of food to be
34:10
brought down to 6%. So that means that everything
34:12
that we have leftover, we either compost it in the food garden so
34:15
new food can be grown, or we actually donate the parts that
34:20
are untouched and hygienically conserved to the homeless
34:25
shelter, for example. And this is one of the ideas
34:27
that came up out of the question from a customer.
34:30
So we learn by doing together. And that's why I see Fresh Table
34:33
as a platform, as an accelerator instead of a leader in
34:37
something, because we learn from each other and it's really
34:39
equally yoked. And we just want to be a partner
34:42
for people to accomplish their mission on Earth.
34:45
Yeah. So how do you create a safe
34:48
space for people to to give you feedback, especially for
34:54
employees? Where for for for, especially
34:58
with an immigrant background? Yeah, that's a good.
35:02
Question quite vulnerable base to to me I.
35:06
Yeah, I think I, I personally visit a lot in leadership,
35:11
specifically inclusive leadership.
35:12
It's also what I did my masters in, in leadership and change
35:15
management and my own development.
35:17
And I think it's really important to recognize what kind
35:19
of type of leader you want to be.
35:20
So I'm a strong believer in servant leadership and really
35:25
and being also more coaching in that sense, but also as a
35:29
leader, humbling yourself down a bit to give somebody more space
35:32
to talk about what their their feelings and what they're on
35:36
about. And also realizing that whenever
35:39
you work with a Sergeant target group, there's more to come with
35:42
that area. So it's never just business and
35:45
private is strictly a part. If you work with people with a
35:48
refugee background, you also have to take into account mental
35:51
health, family issues, developments in their home
35:54
country that can also affect their productivity at work.
35:58
So those kind of things are really important for you as a
36:00
leader to invest in and to read on about.
36:03
And I think I constantly want to challenge myself.
36:06
I'm not saying that I'm always perfect in that this will
36:09
establish a relationship where there's more understanding for
36:12
the other side as well. And a clear example of that, for
36:15
example, is when people start working with us, they get a
36:20
personal development plan. And in that personal development
36:22
plan, we constantly review every two months of what your personal
36:25
growth goals are. It's not just I want to acquire
36:28
that and that hard skill, but also I want to grow as a person
36:31
that's more empathic. I want to let go of my stress at
36:34
work. I want to be this and that, and
36:36
we review each other, as I said, equally, so they get the
36:39
opportunity to also review me and my skills as a leader so I
36:42
can constantly develop in becoming a better leader for
36:45
them. Because we can read all the
36:46
books, we can gain all the masters.
36:48
But in practice, you have to be open to learning from the people
36:52
that you want to be a leader to. So I think that's, yeah, the
36:56
essence in it, but it's also, I think, more of a character
36:58
development. As we grow older, we come to
37:02
learn that we're not always right and we shouldn't be.
37:05
And yeah, creating that safe space starts with being that
37:08
safe space for yourself first. So being an open leader to
37:11
yourself and having that own personal growth, development
37:14
before you can also be able to become that safe space for
37:18
another person. Yeah.
37:21
So how do you build that safe space then for yourself?
37:26
How, how did that process start to to grow personally?
37:30
It was a hard journey. It's a hard journey.
37:34
I'm going to be honest. It really starts with being a
37:39
reflection to yourself, being able to look in the mirror, but
37:42
not always just look at the negative things that you could
37:45
improve on. I think a lot of entrepreneurs,
37:47
especially just in the general domain, not specifically social,
37:50
we're very hard on ourselves. And especially when I look at
37:53
women, it's always something that we can be better at instead
37:57
of focusing on what we're already doing good.
37:59
So read a safe space. I also try to look at, OK, what
38:02
are my qualities, what are my skills, and what can I invest
38:04
in? And I think also being able to
38:09
have open conversations with people from different
38:13
backgrounds, with different mindsets, whether that be
38:17
ethical background, political or social class, for example.
38:23
So I think that was really important to me to have those
38:27
conversations and also surround yourself with people that can
38:32
provide different perspectives. So when I started my business, I
38:36
didn't find any mentor or anything that I could look up to
38:39
or ask questions. And I find that really hard at
38:42
the beginning. So I was one of the first
38:44
entrepreneurs in the family, for example, my my surroundings were
38:49
not with entrepreneurs. I was studying and everybody
38:51
else is just focusing on being a student and if there were any
38:54
entrepreneurs, they were always in the business department of
38:56
university, never in societal part of the sciences.
39:00
But that never really let me be back down.
39:03
I thought if there's not a mentor around me, maybe I should
39:07
start creating and being one myself because you attract what
39:10
you want to have. So I think with that mindset, I
39:13
was just growing and learning at the same time.
39:16
But also allow myself to feel the fuck ups.
39:19
If it doesn't work out, just accept it.
39:21
That's also part of the journey, really write things down.
39:25
I journaled a lot, so it's really fun to read.
39:27
Back in at the start of 2020, what I was worried about and
39:30
then looking back now and where we are now, I'm thinking, God,
39:34
but were you worried about it? Doesn't make any sense.
39:37
So out of out of curiosity, what were you worried about?
39:41
This is a good question. I'm definitely worried about
39:43
COVID, worried if I could talk about my studies with the
39:47
business, if I wasn't being too idealistic, if this would work
39:51
or not. At the end of the day, it all
39:54
went well and at the beginning I started my concert as AB2C
39:57
concert. So the goal was to have some
40:00
healthy, delicious, nutritious meal prep kind of service 2 * a
40:04
week. Due to sustainability reasons
40:07
and not being able to scale that up, we eventually went thanks to
40:11
the demand of the customer to the B2B side which allowed us to
40:14
create more impact. But also I would have.
40:18
I from the beginning, I swore down I'm never doing events.
40:21
I'm never doing anything in the business area.
40:23
It's too much. You want to create an impact on
40:25
people locally. And just looking back at that,
40:28
it's just funny. Like sometimes it's very
40:30
hilarious to see how you were thinking in closed boxes and
40:33
just saying never and I'm not doing that and that.
40:35
And yeah, seeing how you grow as a person also reflects some of
40:39
the decisions that you've been able to make.
40:41
Did you find a mentor, by the way?
40:44
I felt multiple. Yeah, actually I think countless
40:48
now. I think I the term mentor, there
40:51
are some that obviously advertise themselves as mentors,
40:55
but there's also some people in my life that are mentors to me
40:58
that they are not aware of. So if I would count them out of
41:02
my head I would say at least 12. That's that's a lot, but what
41:07
what to you qualifies as a mentor then?
41:11
It's a good question. I think a mentor really
41:14
stimulates you to see your own potential.
41:18
And really I think that's also different with the coach because
41:23
sometimes people want to be leaders, but they are already
41:27
chewing down what you need to do and where you need to go.
41:29
I think a mentor is really, I always give the example of the
41:34
Disney movie of Kung Fu Panda. So there is a Shifu, the master,
41:38
and he's really like giving his all sometimes very vague stories
41:43
and metaphors, but they're there to lead you and give you
41:46
examples. And then they really believe in
41:48
the good potential in you and try to bring that out of you.
41:51
And I think a good mentor is helping you find yourself and
41:55
find your own potential and really helping you like take
42:00
away the clouds within your thoughts if you can put in that.
42:04
And that's what's what's a good mentor is to me.
42:07
Yeah, so, so really give you guidance but not tell you how to
42:11
do things. Yeah, and really help you see
42:14
Claire like clearly, I think that's more of a most of a
42:17
thing. I want to shift to the mindset
42:20
part because that is one thing that truly I really admire about
42:26
you. We had a panel discussion where
42:29
you said something really powerful, which is that you
42:33
treat your mind like a sanctuary.
42:37
What? What does that mean?
42:40
So treating your mind in sanctuary, you can also compare
42:43
it to a temple. Yeah, you are kind of the
42:48
security person in the doors of your mind, and I think it's
42:52
really important to protect whatever goes on in there.
42:55
We often do not have an influence on people's actions or
42:57
things that are happening in the world, but we do have an
42:59
influence on what's happening inside of here.
43:02
So treating your mind as a sanctuary is as treating it as a
43:06
business. So you are the CEO of your mind.
43:08
You get to hire people, you get to fire them, you get to demote
43:13
them or promote them. You are in charge of what's
43:15
happening there and I think it's really important to protect that
43:19
with everything that you have. I learned that at quite a young
43:23
age. I think if there's a lot of
43:25
chaos happening around you, but also in the world or business
43:28
wise, you have to have, that's also the example, the ones you
43:32
give with the safe space, you have to have a safe space within
43:34
yourself. And if your mind is constantly
43:37
cluttered with things and as everything's coming inside of
43:39
there, every negative opinion is sitting there and every update
43:43
on the news is also in there and it's not filtered, you are not
43:46
being that safe space for yourself.
43:48
So first of all, start really decluttering that space and
43:52
having a kind of filter of anything that you let inside.
43:56
And I want to think of things in an onion ring.
43:59
So things in my life, I place them on different levels and you
44:02
peel them down like an onion. And not everything should get
44:05
into the core of the center of your mind.
44:07
And treating that as a sanctuary really allows yourself to give a
44:12
sort of clearance of what gets into your mind and what gets to
44:15
go out. OK, so so how do you do that in
44:20
terms of because you want certain inputs to end up in that
44:26
core, especially when you're talking to mentors and the
44:30
likes, but you also want to keep a bit of, yeah, let's say
44:35
negative influence out, like the guy across the pond doing
44:41
something incredibly stupid or Israel not doing what they're
44:47
supposed to do in Gaza. How do you protect yourself from
44:53
that while still being able to have that conversation with your
44:59
employees? Because you told me part of the
45:02
safe space you want to create is also to to be informed enough to
45:12
have a thoughtful conversation with with people about their
45:15
circumstances. How?
45:18
How do you balance that? Yeah, it's a good question.
45:20
It's never a linear line. So I'm still learning, of
45:23
course, and some days it goes better than the other ones.
45:25
But in general, I would say the art of letting go because
45:31
negative thoughts and negative things are still happening in
45:33
the world and things still happen to yourself and it's
45:36
unrealistic to think that they're never happening, not
45:38
entering your mind. But the most important thing is
45:40
how are you going to filter it? So what would make a decision?
45:44
Like how would you make a decision of what gets to staying
45:46
what not? And what I think is, of course,
45:50
that mindset of not wanting to sit in frustration is something
45:53
comes into your mind, OK, what can I do?
45:55
Take tangible actions. And we're just talking about
45:57
things, for example, across the pond.
45:59
So we got a message in the last few days of Ramadan of, hey, we
46:04
want to host the whole Iftar in lights of Gaza on the Dam Square
46:10
in Amsterdam. And it was only 12 hours ahead
46:13
of time. And can you guys provide food
46:15
for within 670 people? And I said, sure, why not?
46:20
Because I learned that all that frustration has blown up in my
46:23
head that needs to be let out into tangible actions.
46:26
So this is a really big example of doing something more in the
46:29
charity line, but it could also be toned down to something that
46:33
comes into your mind that's negative and writing down on
46:35
journal or just having a conversation with a good friend
46:38
about it. It's just that you have to deal
46:40
with those negative thoughts and then being able to not forget,
46:45
but at least forgive the things that are surrounding that and
46:47
then place it into a certain area in your head.
46:50
It should never consume you twice because something that
46:52
that's negative that happened to you.
46:54
We talk about not outside influences of politics,
46:57
etcetera, but just in general in life.
46:59
For example, something somebody did something wrong to you.
47:02
When it comes to your business, it's the art of being able to
47:06
sit in that feeling, accept it, acknowledge it, but also being
47:11
able to take a certain action to it and then really let it go.
47:15
So I think it's just the art of letting go really takes a lot of
47:18
practice. It's not always going as well as
47:21
people think. It may be in my on my end, but
47:26
it's something that I really learned practice because it
47:27
gives me a lot of sanity. Also my personal life.
47:31
I'm I'm really personal. It's all about forgiveness and a
47:34
lot of people mistake that as seeing well, you're a pushover.
47:37
Everybody gets to just do and and you're forgiving them.
47:40
Forgiveness does not come with axis and sometimes you can
47:43
forgive but remove the axis. Forgiveness is to protect that
47:47
sanctuary in your mind. Because why would I experience
47:49
the same negative feeling twice? First when it happened to me in
47:52
person and then I'm replaying that whole scenario by being mad
47:56
in my head. I'm not giving nobody, no person
48:00
that much power over my own mind.
48:02
And I think that's really the most important thing to really
48:05
develop yourself, but also come to a terms where you did not do
48:09
all that work on your own personal growth to then just let
48:13
somebody else room that. So protect whatever is in here
48:16
because that's the one thing that you control.
48:18
Yeah, you have. Besides the journaling, do you
48:21
have specific routines to or to to to keep yourself sane?
48:29
Yeah, sometimes I'm a little bit insane, so it doesn't always
48:32
work. That's just a disclaimer.
48:35
Definitely adrenaline. Of course, I walk a lot, so I
48:40
could easily walk for three hours.
48:42
I'll put on some headphones. Sometimes a podcast is running,
48:45
sometimes nothing is running, and I just empty out my mind and
48:49
just walk in nature. And what I'd really like to do
48:52
is to tone down everything really simple.
48:56
I would walk and just sit with cows and sheep and I would love
49:00
that because nature always brings you down to the basic
49:03
essence of human beings and there's no LinkedIn post or no
49:08
financial forecast. I can then disrupt me.
49:10
It's something that's really simple 'cause you sit within the
49:13
biological basics of yourself and next to that also talking,
49:18
talking to the right people that have different perspectives that
49:21
that might not be in your sector at all.
49:23
So really good friends and mentors that may not even be
49:27
entrepreneurs, but they give you really different perspective on
49:30
how to deal with things. So also surround yourself with
49:32
people that have different opinions on that.
49:34
That really helps. And besides that, I am also
49:39
Muslim, so I pray five times a day and that really allows me to
49:42
have a reset button five times a day that I don't get to decide
49:46
because these are set prayer times.
49:48
So they actually like sound like a buzzer, like the alarm that we
49:52
hear every 1st of the month in the Netherlands, but then I hear
49:54
it five times a day and I'm obliged to put down my work and
49:58
every negative thought that I have and just disconnect
50:01
completely. There is no phone involved,
50:02
there's nothing involved. And I think that also really
50:05
helps me with structuring those thoughts specifically and really
50:11
find a way to really put everything to place.
50:13
Yeah, that's that's a really powerful way to to just cut off
50:21
any thought process, anything that is going on.
50:26
Yeah. And for people that maybe not
50:27
religious, I also really recommend having certain
50:31
meditation times that you just place for example at 1:00 PM and
50:36
5:00 PM, you always check in on those moments.
50:39
Everything has to accommodate to that schedule of you and not you
50:45
accommodating to the schedule of everything.
50:47
And I think that's the most important thing that that we
50:50
really centerize also having those little pause moments
50:56
during a day and not just during life.
50:58
Because what we see now is we work all year and then we're
51:00
lucky to get a vacation, but also find those Sincery moments
51:03
every day because tomorrow's not promised.
51:05
And if you always live in the future, And that's really, I
51:07
think one of the culprits of being a, a founder or
51:11
entrepreneur. We're always thinking about, OK,
51:14
ahead of the future, ahead of the time.
51:15
That's when I get to rest, when I reach that and that mountain.
51:19
But it's also the art of being in the now and really enjoying
51:22
life now and also appreciating that you are allowed to work
51:27
hard where you're also allowed to really rest even harder.
51:29
And rest is not some kind of reward that we have to achieve
51:32
after we climb that mountaintop. Rest is something that you
51:36
deserve right now that you need. It's not some kind of bonus that
51:40
you need to earn. And I think that's really
51:43
something important, especially since well, apologize is still
51:46
called women disrupting tech, especially when we talk about
51:48
women specifically, I see a lot of women tend to reward
51:52
themselves with something after they would go through
51:55
everything. So it's really, it's sometimes
51:58
it really is weird to me to place some kind of rewardment
52:01
after suffering and it should not be linked to that.
52:04
You deserve to rest and rest is one of your basic needs in terms
52:08
of you getting some fuel and oil to then grow again.
52:12
And it shouldn't be something that's seen as a reward because
52:14
they didn't get burned out and you don't know what happened and
52:17
all of that. So, and it goes for men as well,
52:19
but I think I, I couldn't really see this tendency in women even
52:22
more. Yeah, I was about to say that
52:26
this is this is especially the rest part is valid for men.
52:30
Mutual friend of ours, he actually has a buzzer at 12:00
52:35
every day. Yeah, exactly.
52:37
Where he said basically giving him him a prompt like how are
52:41
you doing? Or something along those lines.
52:44
Which is, I think, a really powerful thing that I've started
52:48
to implement for myself, not at 12, but at 1:00, but.
52:52
And how's that going for you? It's interesting because it
52:59
actually does stop me in my tracks.
53:03
So I can be sometimes like really annoying because I'm
53:07
working on something. I'm starting to work around it.
53:11
So in a sense like build a little routine that for
53:17
instance, I have lunch just prior to that.
53:21
So it's sort of comes at a natural break.
53:23
It doesn't really disturb my my productivity that much.
53:30
But on the other hand, I think it's, even if it does stop deep
53:34
work, I think it's really powerful because it just takes
53:37
you up to the surface again. It gives your head a sort of
53:42
rest like, Oh yeah, I need to do something different.
53:46
And I don't walk that much as you do.
53:50
I do walk a lot. I make sure I get my 10,000
53:54
steps a day, either a running order.
53:58
And does it help you clear your mind or?
54:00
Oh, the running and and working out.
54:02
Oh yeah, absolutely. There's there's one workout that
54:06
I do on a Tuesday evening when I come back from that I'm
54:11
physically exhausted and mentally totally clear.
54:18
Very recognizable, yeah. It's it's.
54:22
I have the same with the boxing. So I've been kickboxing and Thai
54:25
boxing since I was 15. And that for me is really my
54:28
outlet as well. So I, I did a Thai box camp, for
54:32
example, last year in Thailand. It really resets your mind
54:36
'cause you're not able to think. If you're thinking, I'm always
54:39
making the wrong moves and then you get hit in your face and
54:42
then it's done. So it's actually you have to
54:44
protect yourself by not thinking and that's really, you're forced
54:47
to really just be in the moment and I love that.
54:50
And actually just what you explained as well by having that
54:53
timer set for me, that's what the prayer times.
54:55
It's just I started to really plan my appointments around it
55:01
and really centering and actually in in the essence
55:04
you're telling yourself, I'm centering myself and my pause
55:07
moments above anything else. And I think that's really
55:10
powerful move to make as a person in general.
55:13
But it's specifically for founders because we can go
55:16
relentlessly long. We can start at 8:00 AM and then
55:19
never finish basically. So I think it's really good that
55:24
there's something that's holding us accountable to also take a
55:26
break and just be in the moment and not always go Fast forward
55:30
to the future. And so I think it's really
55:33
profound what you just said. Yeah.
55:35
So what would you say to women who really still feel like, OK,
55:41
we can take a break if we deserve it and we can go to
55:45
sleep if we deserve it. If IE if we finished our work,
55:49
which I don't think it's ever finished, especially not for
55:53
founders, but also for for people in in corporate life.
55:58
Actually, for once, I don't have a long answers.
56:01
Just rest is not a reward. It's right and that's it.
56:07
I think really changing your mindset about what rest means to
56:10
you and why do you feel that you have to earn that part.
56:15
I think it's really in a having to look back into yourself and
56:18
how you're why and what you've been through in life.
56:20
I think it'll always come. It stems from somewhere that you
56:23
feel the need to prove your worth before you're able to
56:26
rest, to get a reward. So really look inwards to why
56:30
you're thinking like that and try to really embrace yourself.
56:33
And I think it also comes down to a little bit of more self
56:36
love and self-care because often not only women, I see a lot of
56:39
men doing that too. We wake up and we run out of the
56:42
door and the first thing we're doing is working on something
56:45
for somebody else. But I always love a slow
56:48
morning. I get up even if I'm not hungry.
56:50
There is a whole breakfast that I'm making and I'm taking my
56:53
morning walk. I think it's really important.
56:55
Those little things really reflect.
56:58
I can really tell when I'm talking to a person by the
57:01
little routines that they make in which involves themselves,
57:05
how much they care for themselves.
57:07
So and it's not something that I could place as somebody being a
57:11
negative or a positive person, but just in a sense getting up
57:14
in the morning and really doing something for yourself first
57:17
before you turn down, like turn on that laptop for a lot of
57:20
people like 5:00 AM club, it's waking up and meditating first.
57:24
It's really centralizing what actually matters.
57:26
And at the end of the day, we can be the biggest founders.
57:29
We can create, can create the most impact, but without you
57:33
being the same person, it does not matter.
57:36
It does not matter at all. So I think really prioritizing
57:39
yourself and stop seeing restless reward, but it's right,
57:43
I think that's really the way to advance things.
57:47
Sounds like a great place to move to.
57:49
My final question. So we've been talking about
57:53
impact a lot about, yeah, basically keeping your mind
58:00
sane. And so I was wondering how men
58:06
can contribute to society where we don't look at sustainability
58:13
and diversity and inclusion as a sort of add on.
58:17
How do How? Do we make it just a no brainer?
58:22
How can men contribute to that world?
58:25
Yeah, it's a good question. I think acknowledging the
58:29
positions that they hold and it's similar to that geographic
58:32
block that I just explained. There's also maybe a gender luck
58:35
that maybe you're born into the more dominant role that's more
58:43
controlling in the system. So really acknowledging that
58:45
position that you have that might be a privilege and using
58:48
it into your advantage. So when it comes to create an
58:51
impact, whether it be sustainability, there's a lot of
58:54
voices. I'm, I've been on a lot of
58:56
platforms and I do a lot of keynote speaking where I would
58:59
be the only woman or I would be the only younger woman and then
59:03
I would also be the only person of color.
59:05
So really acknowledging that. And I've had a few talks where
59:08
it would be with mostly predominantly white heterosexual
59:13
men next to me. But often than not, I would find
59:18
people actually there, they were using their position and said,
59:20
well, I had this story. There was a there was a question
59:23
about diversity and they said, well, this is my opinion, but
59:26
I'd rather give this stage to somebody that has experienced
59:29
it. So I think it's really
59:30
acknowledging your position and the luck that you haven't shared
59:33
in that platform. I wouldn't say toning down
59:35
yourself because I think it's a journey that we make together
59:38
and it would not make any sense because the world really
59:41
consists out of men and women and anything in between and
59:44
every race in between that. So yeah, I think my advice would
59:49
be to acknowledge that role, see the kind of luck that you have
59:53
and how you could be able to share that with other people and
59:56
how you can use your privileges to advance the journey and
1:00:00
creating more impact on the sustainable side.
1:00:02
But also when it comes more to diversity and inclusion.
1:00:05
And being able to recognize when you're sitting at a table where
1:00:09
you might not even have the most knowledge and maybe there's a
1:00:12
woman or somebody of color that is more crip to talk about that
1:00:15
topic. And then realizing, well, maybe
1:00:18
I'm just sitting here because. I really fit the standard quota
1:00:22
of being the seven check mark as your son.
1:00:25
I like said. So really being, I think the
1:00:30
gist of it that I'm trying to say is really recognizing that
1:00:34
things that may have come easily, I would not say easily
1:00:39
because I think still men work hard, even like if you're
1:00:42
predominantly white and and straight people work for what
1:00:45
they get. But realizing that a lot of
1:00:47
these things that you get to achieve are not a standard for a
1:00:53
majority of people. So really realizing that those
1:00:56
opportunities that you get, and I think that's also a reflection
1:00:59
moment to really sit in the moment and think, whoa, I'm
1:01:03
invited again to speak on a stage.
1:01:04
But realizing that most of the time women and pre only women of
1:01:08
color may not have that stage or so just think in that sense.
1:01:13
And then not sitting in that frustration, but thinking, what
1:01:15
kind of action can I take and how can I be an ally?
1:01:18
And really searching for those tools within your network and
1:01:22
ask people around you, what can I do for you?
1:01:24
Often you don't have to come up with a solution.
1:01:26
Sometimes you just have to ask. And more than more than not,
1:01:31
people are, especially the women that I know, more than willing
1:01:34
to share what they actually need.
1:01:37
And I think that's also like a tool and it's work where we also
1:01:42
need to take accountability of expressing what we actually
1:01:45
need. Because just complaining what's
1:01:47
not what's not working, speaking from my own perspective as a
1:01:50
woman of color, is that it's also important to really express
1:01:54
what you actually need to be changed and not just complain
1:01:56
about what's not working, but what do we want for men to do?
1:01:59
So I think this is a really valid question that raises a
1:02:03
good point. So it's a two way St.
1:02:06
Yes. Yasmina Kababi, thank you very
1:02:11
much for an amazing conversation.
1:02:13
If people would like to learn more about you, connect with
1:02:17
you, or learn more about Fresh Table and amazing work you're
1:02:20
doing, where would you like to send them?
1:02:24
Definitely freshtable.com, our website, but also you can shoot
1:02:27
a message to me directly on LinkedIn or e-mail me at Bismina
1:02:31
at trash table. I don't know.
1:02:33
Cool. And we'll, we'll include those
1:02:35
links in the show notes. So Yasmina, thank you from the
1:02:39
bottom of my heart for this conversation.
1:02:42
Really amazing listeners. Thank you very much for
1:02:46
listening and until the next episode, keep being awesome.
1:02:55
Well, that's it for episode 126 of Women Disrupting Tech with
1:02:59
Yasmina Kababi, titled Building Permissionless Inclusion One
1:03:04
meal at a time. Yasmina, and I hope that you
1:03:06
found our conversation as enlightening and inspiring as we
1:03:10
intended it to be. And if you have any questions
1:03:13
for Yasmina, please share them in the comments on Spotify,
1:03:17
Apple Podcasts, or YouTube. When you want to connect with
1:03:20
Jasmina or learn more about Freshstable, please check out
1:03:24
the links in the show notes. As usual, you can find the show
1:03:27
notes at Women Disrupting Tactile Block via the link in
1:03:30
the caption. In the show notes, you can also
1:03:34
find more information about the Embrace Health event that I
1:03:37
mentioned in the intro. If you've enjoyed listening to
1:03:40
this episode, please leave a rating or review on Spotify or
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Apple Podcasts. Leaving a rating or a review
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Following Women Disrupting Tech, Sports Jasmina and my other
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On LinkedIn, simply search for my name Derkionhukus and you'll
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1:04:56
wonderful day. I hope to see you in the next
1:04:59
episode and until then, keep being awesome.