Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / The Hidden Truth of Misdiagnosis With Lorina Mirafuentes | The Christian Reeve Podcast #365

Transcript

The Hidden Truth of Misdiagnosis With Lorina Mirafuentes | The Christian Reeve Podcast #365 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:45
  Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Christian Reef
• 0:48
  Podcast. Today's guest is all the way
• 0:51
  from the United States. Her name is Laura Mira Flores,
• 0:55
  and she's here to talk about misdiagnosis.
• 0:59
  It's going to be a pretty heavy topic.
• 1:02
  It's going to. There's a lot to cover.
• 1:05
  Welcome to the show. How you doing Arena?
• 1:07
  Thank you. I'm doing well.
• 1:08
  How are you Christian? I'm good.
• 1:10
  Always excited to do a podcast, always excited to interview
• 1:14
  people. And yeah, I was stoked.
• 1:17
  Shout out to I want to, I want to make sure I nail this.
• 1:20
  Ronnie May Villanueva, who put us in touch.
• 1:24
  That's your executive public relations assistant, yes.
• 1:27
  And my name is Lorena Mira Fuentes if anyone wants to find
• 1:31
  me. I have a Facebook author page
• 1:33
  under Lorena Troy, but it's Lorena Mira Fuentes, no?
• 1:37
  Fuentes. Yeah, Lorena Mira Fuentes.
• 1:42
  That's weird in the e-mail as it was spelled completely
• 1:45
  differently. That's really, really, really
• 1:47
  strange, I think. I think.
• 1:49
  You want to check with her about it.
• 1:51
  I see this is the OK Side note, this is totally unrelated to
• 1:56
  things right? So I read the e-mail, I saw the
• 2:00
  name and my head went immediately to Lorena Mira
• 2:05
  Fuentes. Like I I can't explain it but he
• 2:09
  just immediately went to that. I read the e-mail and it says
• 2:13
  Lorena Mira Flores and I was like, OK, I guess.
• 2:17
  I'll have to check with her on that.
• 2:19
  It's really weird. I It's one of those things where
• 2:22
  I think sometimes your brain corrects you, but then you you
• 2:26
  dismiss it and then. Yeah, no.
• 2:29
  Worries What is going on? OK, Loreen and Mara Frentes.
• 2:32
  I I sincerely apologise for that.
• 2:34
  That's embarrassing. No.
• 2:35
  OK. No worries.
• 2:37
  Well, anyway, Ronnie put us in touch and, you know, I read your
• 2:43
  story and everything and we'll, we'll get into that in a second.
• 2:47
  But I'm, I'm always stoked to, to have shows like this.
• 2:51
  I'm always stoked to do show anyway.
• 2:52
  But it's always a challenge for me as an interviewer.
• 2:56
  And yeah, it's, it's even more of a challenge because you have
• 2:59
  to kind of deep dive into something.
• 3:01
  I'll read the statement that she sent over because I thought this
• 3:04
  was worth reading as well. So Lorena and her family endured
• 3:10
  A heartbreaking experience after a child abuse allegation was
• 3:13
  made due to a medical misdiagnosis.
• 3:16
  What was initially believed to be abuse was later confirmed to
• 3:19
  be a birth related condition and a benign external hydrocephalus.
• 3:27
  I think that's correct. Hydrocephalus.
• 3:30
  Hydrocephalus. There we go.
• 3:31
  There we go. Thank you.
• 3:32
  During the years of legal battles, uncertainty, and
• 3:35
  emotional emotional hardship, their faith became the
• 3:38
  foundation that carried them through.
• 3:40
  Through prayer, trust in God, and perseverance, the family
• 3:44
  found strength even in one of the most difficult seasons of
• 3:47
  their lives. Their journey is now being
• 3:50
  shared through the upcoming documentary, The Hidden Truth of
• 3:53
  Misdiagnosis, due for a 2026 release.
• 3:56
  With the hope of encouraging other families facing hardship
• 4:00
  and reminding people that faith can sustain us through
• 4:04
  unimaginable trials. I found some statistics and I
• 4:09
  want to share them as well before we delve into things.
• 4:11
  So according to NHS resolution, So for our international
• 4:17
  viewers, NHS National Health Service here in the UK, the body
• 4:21
  responsible for handling negligence claims against the
• 4:24
  NHS, that's what that is. Diagnostic errors contribute to
• 4:30
  approximately 20% of all clinical negligence claims.
• 4:36
  A 2023 study by the British Medical Journal estimated that
• 4:40
  misdiagnoses affect around one in 18 patients in primary and
• 4:45
  secondary care. The same study found that
• 4:47
  misdiagnosed cancers, strokes and heart attacks were among the
• 4:52
  most serious cases, often leading to life altering
• 4:55
  consequences or even death in some cases.
• 4:58
  Yearly estimates of harm caused by a misdiagnosis in hospitals
• 5:03
  in the US have risen over time from about 40,000 to 80,000
• 5:08
  deaths based on hospital autopsies to around 250,000
• 5:13
  cases of harm of severity or any severity.
• 5:17
  And this is from a review of 22 independent studies and into a
• 5:21
  roughly 376,000 cases involving severe harm.
• 5:26
  And again, this is in the British Medical Journal from
• 5:30
  2000 and five, 2006, I believe, I think it's 2005, Volume 34,
• 5:34
  Issue 6. So some pretty surprising
• 5:38
  figures there. I, I want to pick your brains
• 5:43
  about that for a second, because obviously, as you said off
• 5:46
  camera that it's, it's been, you know, you were followed around
• 5:49
  with this documentary for two years.
• 5:52
  This well, actually, let's start, let's start there.
• 5:56
  When did this medical misdiagnosis occur?
• 5:59
  What? What year?
• 6:00
  How long ago we talking? In 2015.
• 6:04
  Wow. OK, so it's over a decade.
• 6:07
  So much has happened ever since then.
• 6:09
  Yeah, Oh my God. Can I mention, since you're
• 6:13
  mentioning statistics, that's really interesting.
• 6:15
  I'm so glad you did that. And what happened to my family
• 6:19
  and so many families in the US is actually happening in the in
• 6:22
  the UK and many countries all across the world.
• 6:26
  One of the statistics in the US is that there's about 600,000
• 6:30
  children in the foster care system and 90 and the the
• 6:35
  Children's Bureau did a report and found that around 91% of
• 6:39
  child abuse cases are found to be false and unsubstantiated.
• 6:43
  So out of those 600,000 children that are in are in foster care,
• 6:47
  there's around that many in in the United States, about 91% of
• 6:51
  child abuse cases are found to be false and unsubstantiated,
• 6:55
  which is very concerning. Yeah, that my first kind of
• 7:00
  initial thoughts from that are, yeah, a combination of
• 7:04
  misreporting and I guess you could say maybe corruption.
• 7:07
  I mean, what else can you really say about something like that?
• 7:13
  Like it's that's a. That's a ridiculously high
• 7:16
  statistic. Yeah.
• 7:17
  And my, our documentary, the way I made my documentary is, you
• 7:21
  know, going through the situation in 2015 and it took
• 7:24
  about 2 1/2 years to get much better.
• 7:26
  And then over the past, you know, 11 years or so, I've been
• 7:31
  a huge advocate for families. And I've shared my story with
• 7:33
  national, local news and media all over the world in the United
• 7:37
  States. And I'm finding this is
• 7:40
  happening so often because so many families are coming to me
• 7:43
  and speaking about misdiagnosis and how their children have also
• 7:46
  been affected. Obviously we we mentioned the
• 7:51
  title of the documentary earlier.
• 7:54
  Why? Why did you decide to do a
• 7:56
  documentary? What?
• 7:58
  What was the kind of thought process there behind that?
• 8:01
  Well, the national and local news and media have really been
• 8:04
  interested in my story for the past eight years or so.
• 8:07
  I've been a huge advocate for families.
• 8:10
  I've met with over 15 senators and lawmakers all across the
• 8:14
  United States. And with all the information
• 8:17
  that I learned personally going through a misdiagnosis of child
• 8:20
  abuse with my son, I learned so much and I have so much wisdom
• 8:23
  and knowledge. And then after all these years
• 8:26
  of meeting with in organizations, attorneys,
• 8:28
  families, I've been able to gain so much knowledge and I wanted
• 8:31
  to make a documentary that would raise awareness and help create
• 8:35
  change across our nation and worldwide.
• 8:38
  And the way that I made my documentary, because I'm also
• 8:41
  the executive director and executive producer of my
• 8:43
  documentary and it is about our story.
• 8:46
  I really wanted to make it to help others.
• 8:49
  And the amount of information there could definitely help
• 8:51
  others someday and help people feel like they're not alone.
• 8:54
  Because when you go through this situation, you feel so alone.
• 8:57
  But then when you realize there's so many other children
• 8:59
  and families going through this, it's, it's, it's good because
• 9:03
  you then you don't feel so alone and isolated going through this
• 9:06
  situation. And the information in there is
• 9:09
  so important because this, even if people don't have children,
• 9:12
  people have, you know, nieces and nephews and grandchildren
• 9:15
  and friends that have children. So the amount of knowledge and
• 9:18
  wisdom can definitely help families.
• 9:20
  Our sound engineer actually went through a similar situation when
• 9:24
  we were done filming. So we're just like, wow, this
• 9:26
  happens so often to people all around us and we just don't know
• 9:30
  because so many people, you know, honestly, who wants to
• 9:34
  talk about, oh, Child Protective Services is involved with my
• 9:38
  family and I? It's it's embarrassing.
• 9:39
  And people automatically assume like, oh, what was wrong?
• 9:43
  They don't realize, you know, children are being misdiagnosed
• 9:45
  so easily. Yeah, the, the vibe I always
• 9:50
  kind of get in a lot of these instances is it always seems
• 9:55
  like, I don't know if it's just kind of like a societal thing in
• 9:58
  general, but it's always the kind of like guilty till proven
• 10:02
  innocent thing, which I'm always kind of like, hold on, let's
• 10:06
  just get our facts straight before we start kind of before
• 10:14
  we start labeling things. Yeah, that's what I was going to
• 10:16
  say. But yeah, it's like you're
• 10:18
  guilty till you prove yourself innocent type of thing.
• 10:22
  And I mean, with something like this as well, I can only imagine
• 10:26
  what it must feel like in the moment.
• 10:27
  And let's let's go back to the beginning.
• 10:30
  So I wasn't, I wasn't really. There were questions I've asked
• 10:34
  over the years where I'm like, I don't know how I still ask the
• 10:37
  question other than to just ask the question.
• 10:40
  What was your initial response to a child abuse allegation?
• 10:47
  I was just in shock because here my son was getting sick.
• 10:51
  We were taking him to the pediatrician, urgent care,
• 10:53
  Children's Hospital, and then for well, what happened?
• 10:57
  What happened was my son was getting sick, he was vomiting.
• 11:00
  We took him to his pediatrician and then urgent care in the
• 11:03
  Children's Hospital and they all kept misdiagnosing him with a
• 11:05
  stomach bug. So what other options do you
• 11:08
  really have when you keep taking your child to the doctor's and
• 11:11
  they keep misdiagnosing him with a stomach bug?
• 11:13
  There's no other options that you have.
• 11:15
  And then his pediatrician said at his four month checkup, and
• 11:19
  she said she noticed his head was getting larger since birth.
• 11:22
  Take him to the children's, to the Children's Hospital to have
• 11:24
  images taken of his head and he should be fine.
• 11:28
  And then the Children's Hospital said that they found fluid in
• 11:31
  his head. And right away they just jumped
• 11:33
  immediately to, we think a shaken baby syndrome.
• 11:36
  We think he was abused. And what, we're just shocked
• 11:39
  because then CPS showed up at the hospital.
• 11:42
  They interrogated us. No one wanted to listen to what
• 11:45
  we were saying to them and even though we were telling them the
• 11:47
  truth, I was like, my son has never.
• 11:49
  I spoke with a pediatric neurosurgeon and I said my son
• 11:52
  has never been hurt in any way. Could this be something else,
• 11:55
  like as a medical condition? He said yes, but since he's a
• 11:58
  baby and can't talk we're just going to go with abuse and
• 12:01
  walked away. Wow.
• 12:05
  OK, So what? So what happens next in that
• 12:09
  moment? So did they just take your child
• 12:11
  away? Isolate you from the child.
• 12:14
  CPS coerced us to sign a safety plan, he said.
• 12:17
  If you do not sign a safety plan for 30 days, I will contact the
• 12:21
  DA and have your children taken from you right now.
• 12:24
  So we were coerced to sign a 30 day safety plan.
• 12:27
  They made my children's father move out of the house and then I
• 12:30
  had to have a family member be with me at all times with my
• 12:34
  children. And we were just like in shock
• 12:37
  because here we are taking my son.
• 12:39
  My children's father took my son to the Children's Hospital
• 12:41
  because I was feeling sick. And I stayed with my other son
• 12:43
  and he called me. And then I went there and I
• 12:46
  spoke to everyone there and no one wanted to listen to what we
• 12:49
  were saying, even though we were telling them the truth that my
• 12:51
  son was never hurt, but no one wanted to listen.
• 12:54
  No one believed us. In the medical profession, we
• 12:57
  often hear about the term a second opinion asking for a
• 13:01
  second opinion. I did.
• 13:03
  In that moment, did you like just immediately like, hey, can
• 13:06
  I get a second opinion? I asked for a second opinion,
• 13:09
  they said no, we don't feel it's necessary.
• 13:11
  And then I asked if my son could see a neurologist and they said
• 13:13
  no, we don't feel it's necessary.
• 13:15
  Is it a legal right to get a second opinion?
• 13:19
  Well now I shared my testimony at a legislative hearing in
• 13:23
  Texas and it took 2 1/2 years to get a bill passed that would
• 13:26
  allow parents a second opinion in Texas.
• 13:29
  And that was passed, I think it was like 5 years ago.
• 13:32
  And it would be amazing if that could be a federal law someday
• 13:34
  and even a worldwide law. And you would think that
• 13:37
  everyone has the right to a second opinion.
• 13:40
  But once there's wrongful accusations of child abuse or
• 13:44
  abusive head trauma, there is no second opinion.
• 13:49
  That's crazy. Sorry.
• 13:52
  I there's going to be a lot of this.
• 13:54
  I think for me this show only because of of the.
• 13:59
  You're trapped. You're trapped in the system,
• 14:02
  pretty much. Yeah.
• 14:04
  And also this, this isn't the first time this kind of an issue
• 14:07
  must have come up over the years.
• 14:09
  Do you know what I mean? Like this specific scenario must
• 14:11
  have come up many times in many different forms.
• 14:14
  What do you mean? You can't ask for a second
• 14:16
  opinion? Like how the how can they have
• 14:18
  the right to bat that away? I'd, I'd argue in an instance
• 14:22
  like that as well. If you're trying, let's say,
• 14:25
  let's flip it around and let's say like it was a child abuse
• 14:30
  situation, right? You, you'd need a second doctor,
• 14:35
  an independent person to come in and, and give that opinion one
• 14:39
  way or another as well. Do you know what I mean?
• 14:42
  Like the more opinions, the better In, in a situation like
• 14:44
  that, just to kind of ascertain, OK, is the parent lying?
• 14:49
  Is the doctor wrong? You know, like you, you need
• 14:52
  that. And, you know, sometimes I
• 14:54
  forget, obviously in in the states, you've got federal and,
• 14:56
  and state law and, and these things are very different.
• 14:59
  But at the same time, you'd think that's just like a like a
• 15:03
  standard thing, you know, But I guess, I guess in many cases
• 15:08
  it's not. And it's not the first time on
• 15:10
  this show I've had people on and they've surprised me with the
• 15:16
  types of laws that they're fighting to get in and they've
• 15:18
  only just got them in in recent years.
• 15:21
  I mean. Well, even even though there's
• 15:23
  laws, you know, federal and state laws state that children
• 15:26
  are supposed to be placed with family, they denied my children
• 15:29
  that right. They would not place them with
• 15:30
  family and they put them into foster care.
• 15:32
  And our, our federal law, our civil rights were violated, our
• 15:37
  first 4th and 14th amendments, you know, wrongful search and
• 15:40
  seizure by the government. And that's why we eventually
• 15:43
  filed the federal lawsuit against the hospital, the
• 15:46
  doctors and CPS caseworkers. Right before we get there, I
• 15:50
  just want to delve into that for a second.
• 15:52
  What was the reasoning behind not allowing your child to be
• 15:56
  with your family? Because I would think in an
• 15:58
  instance like that, obviously they've gone through with this
• 16:01
  allegation. You've been sort of coerced into
• 16:04
  signing these forms and you know, you're just going through
• 16:07
  the motions right now because you have to because you don't
• 16:09
  want to exacerbate the situation.
• 16:12
  But then for them to say, oh, can't, can't, your child's not
• 16:16
  allowed to go with their grandparents or an aunt and an
• 16:18
  uncle or whatever, like were you given a reason for that?
• 16:21
  What was the reason? No, our family actually went
• 16:24
  with us. So we had so much family that
• 16:26
  travelled with us to Texas at the court hearing and in the CPS
• 16:31
  office and we said why are my children in foster care?
• 16:34
  Why can't our family take care of them?
• 16:37
  They said no and they gave no reason.
• 16:39
  And federally and state laws state that they're supposed to
• 16:42
  be a place of family, but my children were denied that right.
• 16:45
  And this happens very often, unfortunately.
• 16:50
  Where is this hospital? It's in Austin, TX.
• 16:54
  OK. So I mean, obviously this can't
• 16:59
  be the only hospital where these sorts of things are happening.
• 17:02
  But in your investigations, did you find maybe similar cases
• 17:09
  happening at this particular hospital?
• 17:12
  It's happening. Yes, it is.
• 17:14
  Even if you look online, it's happening literally in every
• 17:17
  county, in every state, all across our nation and worldwide.
• 17:20
  People have contacted me in the UK, Australia, India, Norway,
• 17:25
  Italy, France. I was in a meeting, a zoo
• 17:28
  meeting, and there are people from all over countries, all
• 17:30
  over the world and it's happening so often.
• 17:33
  People just don't realize it. Why do you think that is?
• 17:39
  Honestly there, you know, there's, there should be
• 17:42
  investigations as to why this is happening, but there's no like
• 17:47
  specific answer. But going to lawmakers, like I
• 17:51
  have been speaking to them about this important issue.
• 17:54
  And then lawmakers, they know it's a huge problem because lots
• 17:57
  of people have been contacting them.
• 18:00
  So having laws in place to protect children and families is
• 18:02
  so important. My, my attorney said that, you
• 18:06
  know, people that are in jail and prison have a lot more laws
• 18:08
  to protect them than children and families do.
• 18:11
  Because, you know, people in jail and prison, they're
• 18:13
  fighting for all these laws to get passed and they're getting
• 18:15
  passed to protect them. But you know, the sad thing also
• 18:19
  as well is like, you know, there aren't that many laws to protect
• 18:22
  children and families, unfortunately.
• 18:26
  Let's move things along a little bit.
• 18:27
  I just want to kind of timeline things a little bit.
• 18:29
  So you said everything started back in 2015.
• 18:32
  The initial diagnosis was in 2015.
• 18:35
  In what year do we arrive at the point where you're able to get
• 18:43
  another doctor involved to get another diagnosis?
• 18:48
  So clearly, obviously, during that time, you said we had to
• 18:51
  take a federal lawsuit out. So you were fighting that.
• 18:56
  That was two years ago. Sorry, sorry.
• 18:58
  I know we kind of like skipped around a little bit.
• 19:01
  So what happened was my son was misdiagnosed with child abuse.
• 19:04
  I had to have a supervisor at all times.
• 19:06
  The safety plan expired after 30 days and my proof supervisor
• 19:10
  left her four kids in Oklahoma to stay with me and my children
• 19:13
  and I for about a month. And it was like almost two
• 19:16
  months. So I contacted my attorney and I
• 19:19
  was like, hey, the safety plan expired.
• 19:21
  My cousin left her four kids in Oklahoma.
• 19:23
  It's only a six hour drive. She really wants to see her
• 19:25
  children. She hasn't seen them for almost
• 19:27
  two months. Can we take a trip to Oklahoma
• 19:29
  just to see family and to see her children?
• 19:31
  He said yes, the safety plan expired, just go with your proof
• 19:35
  supervisor. Anyway, I just thought of a
• 19:36
  precaution, but you don't have to stay here.
• 19:38
  So we traveled to Oklahoma so she could see her children and
• 19:42
  visit family. And CPS called me and said,
• 19:45
  where are you? And I said, we were just
• 19:47
  visiting family in Oklahoma. I'm still taking my son to see
• 19:50
  doctors. I could send you, you know, the
• 19:52
  medical records. They said, no, that's not
• 19:54
  necessary. And that's when everything kind
• 19:56
  of flipped. And they seemed more aggressive
• 19:58
  with me when I told them I'm taking him to see other doctors.
• 20:02
  And so CPS Oklahoma, CPS Texas contacted CPS Oklahoma and said,
• 20:07
  take her children away from her right now.
• 20:09
  They're in immediate danger. And.
• 20:12
  CPS Texas went to the judge in Austin, TX.
• 20:16
  They lied and falsified court documents.
• 20:18
  They lied to the judge and they said my children were in
• 20:21
  immediate danger when they were not.
• 20:22
  So CPS Oklahoma stepped in because we're their position
• 20:25
  family and they did their own investigation for about 3 hours.
• 20:29
  They met with my children and I and our family and our approved
• 20:31
  supervisor. They, I signed over all the
• 20:34
  medical records to them and I said I'm taking them to see
• 20:36
  doctors. She said.
• 20:37
  CPS Oklahoma said, I deem your children safe.
• 20:40
  I will not take them from you. But I'm just going to let you
• 20:42
  know that CPS Texas wants them take to be taken away.
• 20:46
  And then about five to seven days later, I got a knock at the
• 20:50
  door and the sheriff showed up with our guns and badges and CPS
• 20:54
  and they just ripped my baby out of my arms.
• 20:57
  And they took my two children, my 4 year old and my baby.
• 21:01
  They just took him and gave him the CPS and then CPS took them
• 21:05
  in the car and put them in foster care for 150 days.
• 21:10
  I'm so sorry. I know it's probably difficult
• 21:14
  to kind of revisit this. I know you've probably obviously
• 21:17
  gone through this story a lot, but still it's.
• 21:19
  Yeah, it's. I don't know.
• 21:23
  I've always had quite an active imagination.
• 21:26
  I can imagine it, it's, it's and also I think the, the things I'm
• 21:33
  taking away as, as an, as a just a person hearing this for the
• 21:36
  first time is I suppose the aggressive nature of the system.
• 21:44
  You know, it's not the first time I've ever heard government
• 21:49
  or, or institutions being like this.
• 21:52
  I mean, I could give you a million examples here in the UK,
• 21:54
  but it is also strange for them to kind of operate this swiftly
• 22:03
  and in this manner. And don't get me wrong, I'm not
• 22:05
  trying to understate the importance of, of child abuse
• 22:09
  situations because that absolutely should be
• 22:11
  investigated and, and that shouldn't be overlooked.
• 22:16
  However, you have to have clear evidence you, you just have to.
• 22:24
  And OK, let's, let's, let's continue.
• 22:28
  So so your kids get taken into foster care?
• 22:31
  Yes, and then my 4 year old son. So they, they took my baby.
• 22:35
  He was only about 5-6 months old.
• 22:36
  And then my 4 year old son, also my 4 year old son lost 20 lbs
• 22:40
  within only six weeks of being taken.
• 22:42
  And the the pediatrician, the pediatrician said he showed
• 22:46
  signs of sadness and depression from being separated from us,
• 22:49
  his biological parents. And I lost them for 150 days.
• 22:53
  We had to hire attorneys and fight to get my children back in
• 22:57
  family court, and then a few months later they actually
• 23:00
  wrongfully charged my children's father with two serious felonies
• 23:03
  of injury to a child. So not only were we fighting in
• 23:06
  family court for our children, he had to fight for his
• 23:08
  innocence in a Criminal Court and he had to turn himself in
• 23:12
  with his attorney. They put an ankle monitor on him
• 23:15
  for two months and they treated him like he was this horrible
• 23:18
  criminal when he was in fact innocent.
• 23:20
  He had a top secret government and military security clearance
• 23:23
  and we both had clean records. No prior CPS involvement,
• 23:27
  nothing. And they wrongfully.
• 23:29
  Charged him. Was that his?
• 23:32
  Is that his career? Is that why that's the case?
• 23:36
  No, his, his career was a top. He had a top secret government
• 23:39
  in, in the military and the government and his career was
• 23:43
  totally like separate from the situation.
• 23:45
  But you know, he had a clean record and to have such a top
• 23:48
  secret clearance, it, you know, they had zero evidence of any
• 23:51
  child abuse. That's what's so shocking.
• 23:54
  And they didn't, they didn't even bring up, you know, like he
• 23:56
  has a top secret clearance with the government in the in the
• 23:59
  military, you know, like, why not do some more investigation
• 24:02
  to make sure there's clear evidence of child abuse because
• 24:05
  there there was never any evidence of any child abuse
• 24:08
  because of that never occurred. They did find fluid in my my
• 24:12
  son's head because I'll explain it a little bit more later.
• 24:16
  And then so here he has to fight for his innocence.
• 24:19
  He had to hire a criminal defense attorney.
• 24:22
  We had to sell our house to pay for all these attorneys.
• 24:26
  I spoke with my cousin. She's an attorney for the city
• 24:28
  of Los Angeles. And she said, I know that you
• 24:30
  guys would never hurt your children.
• 24:32
  You hire your own attorneys and you fight this.
• 24:35
  So thank God she told us that because we didn't know what to
• 24:37
  do in this situation. And then after about 5 months,
• 24:41
  150 days, CPS said we, we feel the need to return your children
• 24:48
  back to me because to back to us because how, how badly my 4 year
• 24:52
  old was affected, you know, he lost a significant amount of
• 24:55
  weight, 2020 lbs and only six weeks is, you know, it's
• 24:58
  horrible to lose that much weight.
• 25:00
  And he was really sad and depressed.
• 25:02
  And then my baby, he missed doctor's appointments and a, an
• 25:05
  MRI checkup with his neurosurgeon and, and check UPS
• 25:10
  because CPS moved them three times within only five months in
• 25:13
  the foster care system. So thankfully, after fighting
• 25:16
  with our attorneys in family court at for multiple hearings,
• 25:20
  I got my children back in 150 days.
• 25:22
  And then my children's father, he hired a criminal defense
• 25:27
  attorney and he said, let me look through the medical
• 25:29
  records. He'd be shocked at what you can
• 25:31
  find in there. So he looked through all the
• 25:34
  medical records. It took several months.
• 25:35
  And then he said, hey, I need you to come into my office.
• 25:38
  I need to speak with you, with you, with both of you.
• 25:41
  So we took a trip to his office and the criminal defense
• 25:44
  attorney looked at my children's father and he said, I know for a
• 25:47
  fact that you were innocent. And we both looked at each other
• 25:50
  and we were like, yes, this is what we've been saying the whole
• 25:52
  time. He said, I found in the birth
• 25:54
  records that your son had a birth injury.
• 25:56
  I'm going to hire a medical expert to confirm this.
• 25:59
  He's well known and highly respected all throughout the
• 26:02
  United States, Canada and England.
• 26:05
  And, you know, he's worldwide. So the medical expert confirmed
• 26:09
  that my son actually had a birth injury and a condition called
• 26:12
  benign external hydrocephalus. So finally, after 2 1/2 years,
• 26:18
  after a year, the CPS case was dismissed because Casa is a
• 26:22
  child advocate through the court system, he said.
• 26:24
  I went through the CPSI, went to the CPS office.
• 26:27
  I looked through both of your son's files for several hours
• 26:30
  and I found zero evidence of any child abuse.
• 26:33
  I'm going to request to have this case dismissed.
• 26:35
  And finally, after a year, the case with CPS was dismissed.
• 26:38
  And then for 2 1/2 years, we didn't, I didn't have that's
• 26:43
  when the criminal defense attorney was able to get my son
• 26:46
  correctly diagnosed because when I did have him, I was taking him
• 26:48
  to all types of different doctors.
• 26:50
  No one could find the correct diagnosis because how can he get
• 26:55
  the best care if they don't even know the correct diagnosis.
• 26:58
  So after 2 1/2 years, we were finally able to have medical
• 27:02
  expert correct correctly diagnosed my son.
• 27:04
  And then that's when the criminal charges on my
• 27:07
  children's father were dismissed after 2 1/2 years.
• 27:10
  So in 2018, everything got much better.
• 27:13
  And ever since then, I've been sharing my story with the news
• 27:16
  in the media, national, local news, and trying to raise raise
• 27:20
  awareness and meeting with lawmakers to try to have laws
• 27:22
  passed to help protect children and families.
• 27:26
  Thank you very much for sharing. Very harrowing kind of story to
• 27:32
  hear. Even from the way you're telling
• 27:35
  it, I could tell you've told this story many times.
• 27:38
  And like, what's interesting is like, you know, you, you, you
• 27:44
  remember exactly how many days it was like just, there's no
• 27:50
  forgetting it. It's like burned into your mind.
• 27:52
  Would that be correct to say? Yes, and you know, you know,
• 27:56
  that you could do like, honestly, this is an emotionally
• 27:59
  traumatic situation for the parents, the children, and so
• 28:03
  many people have PTSD and they have to go through years of
• 28:05
  therapy to heal from this. And even though I've I've, you
• 28:09
  know, taken many steps to heal from it.
• 28:11
  I wrote my book, Miracles of Faith to share a story, raise
• 28:14
  awareness. It's all about the healing
• 28:15
  process to write about it and speak about it.
• 28:18
  But it's still a scar that's there that will never completely
• 28:21
  go away. And, you know, as honestly as
• 28:24
  I'm speaking about, you know, the memory of CBS just ripping
• 28:29
  my the sheriffs, ripping my children on my arms, taking
• 28:32
  them, it's, you know, it's still a very painful memory to
• 28:36
  remember. But I do share my story to raise
• 28:39
  awareness and to hope, like hopefully help other families.
• 28:42
  And I just don't want any other children or families to have to
• 28:45
  ever have to go through this horrible situation.
• 28:48
  Did you ever get an apology? You or your husband?
• 28:51
  Did you ever get right? Did you get compensation?
• 28:56
  No, we, our, two years ago, we've, our, our attorneys filed
• 29:01
  a federal lawsuit against the Children's Hospital, the doctor
• 29:05
  and CPS caseworkers. And it's been 2 years and often
• 29:10
  times they try to have the cases dismissed even though there's
• 29:13
  sufficient evidence. But you know, sadly these judges
• 29:17
  are dismissing these cases, which is horrible and shouldn't
• 29:20
  be happening. So we just hope and pray that
• 29:23
  our lawsuit will go through. Do you know why they get
• 29:28
  dismissed? I mean, on what grounds?
• 29:31
  You know, honestly, if if these cases get dismissed, then they
• 29:34
  can continue to violate families civil civil rights.
• 29:40
  So it's, it's a really unfortunate and sad situation,
• 29:43
  but we just hope and pray that it won't be dismissed.
• 29:46
  But that's what they are trying to do right now, and our
• 29:49
  attorneys are trying to fight that.
• 29:54
  It kind of sounds a bit like institution protecting itself
• 29:59
  kind of deal. You know what I mean?
• 30:04
  Could be. I mean, I don't want to play
• 30:06
  conspiracy theorists, but it's just weird to sit there and
• 30:12
  think, you know, you've got judges sitting there.
• 30:15
  Do you get juries of these court cases?
• 30:20
  You can. You can either choose to have a
• 30:22
  trial by jury or a trial by judge I believe.
• 30:26
  OK. And what which of you opted for?
• 30:29
  Are you allowed to talk about that?
• 30:31
  Honestly, we haven't even got, we have, it hasn't even reached
• 30:34
  that point yet. Two years.
• 30:37
  Yeah, the cases go very slow, very slow in the federal court
• 30:41
  system. I believe in the states, like in
• 30:44
  the state system, they have more of like a timeline, but
• 30:47
  unfortunately in the federal court system it could go on for
• 30:50
  years. And I we didn't know that.
• 30:52
  If we would have known, it probably would have been filed
• 30:54
  within the state in that federal court system.
• 30:57
  I just find it baffling that, you know, it was proven that
• 31:02
  there was no child abuse and it was proven that it was a
• 31:06
  misdiagnosis and it was proven that your husband was completely
• 31:10
  innocent. And in the wake of all of that,
• 31:13
  no apology, no compensation, no, hey, you know what?
• 31:17
  We got it wrong. Nothing.
• 31:18
  What the What the hell? Yeah, you know what?
• 31:21
  You know what's amazing Christian is?
• 31:23
  So I was looking through the medical records and this was in
• 31:26
  2018, so about 8 years ago, I was looking through his medical
• 31:30
  records. I'm like, I feel like there's
• 31:31
  something that we're missing. So I was able to figure out the,
• 31:35
  the, the hospital where my son was born, where he had the birth
• 31:39
  injury. They knew he had a birth injury.
• 31:41
  It's in really small print in the medical records and they
• 31:43
  never told us anything. So the, the hospital where my
• 31:47
  son was born at, they knew he had a birth injury and they
• 31:50
  never told us, but they put it in really small print and they
• 31:53
  left a lot of details up. And then the Children's
• 31:56
  Hospital, I saw this report from the day it first happened, the,
• 32:00
  the first day where they're trying to say he was abused,
• 32:02
  right. I found a report that said MRI
• 32:04
  report protocol for hydrocephalus, so the Children's
• 32:07
  Hospital knew he had hydrocephalus.
• 32:10
  They never told us anything and instead they made a false report
• 32:13
  to CPS of child abuse. I'm calling it now.
• 32:19
  I think we're going to see you in the news at some point in the
• 32:22
  distant future or maybe not so distant future winning this
• 32:26
  court case. And it will be one of those
• 32:29
  moments that's like significant for the United States because
• 32:35
  this is crazy. This is, this is not normal.
• 32:39
  And look, we all know that every country has its flawed law
• 32:44
  systems. You know, we've heard
• 32:47
  extensively how flawed the United States law system is
• 32:51
  flawed. Same in the UK.
• 32:53
  I'm not trying to attack Eva system.
• 32:56
  It's just we know they're, they're flawed.
• 32:58
  There's, there's many issues, particularly now, but every now
• 33:02
  and again you do hear these stories, but particularly in the
• 33:04
  states that crop up and individuals like yourself
• 33:07
  campaigning for years and years and then they finally get some
• 33:10
  justice. And I, I honestly, I honestly
• 33:13
  see that happening. Just quickly throwing it back to
• 33:17
  the, the documentary. Do do we have a specific release
• 33:20
  date yet? Do we know when?
• 33:22
  That's gone up. Honestly, it's been, it's been
• 33:25
  we've it finished in a month ago.
• 33:27
  But I do have, I do have, I do have connections working with
• 33:32
  very large platforms to get it onto these very large, well
• 33:35
  known platforms. And I can't mention who they are
• 33:37
  right now, but meetings are taking place.
• 33:40
  And I'm just hoping and praying that these this very large
• 33:43
  platform will say yes. And if they do say yes, it will
• 33:46
  go worldwide to millions of, you know, millions of people can see
• 33:50
  it. And that's what I hope and pray
• 33:51
  for because this awareness is so important and it could help so
• 33:54
  many children and families someday.
• 33:57
  And hopefully it'll be alright soon.
• 33:59
  I will definitely know, let you know.
• 34:01
  But that's what's been so hard for me because I can't just air
• 34:04
  it. Otherwise these, you know, the
• 34:06
  platforms won't be, they won't want it if it's already out
• 34:08
  there. So I just have to just be
• 34:11
  patient because they're definitely having meetings,
• 34:13
  which are going very well, I'm being told.
• 34:15
  And I'll definitely let you know.
• 34:17
  I just, I can't wait for people to see it because it's such a
• 34:20
  powerful story that that will definitely.
• 34:25
  Well, OK, so I, I learned in the filmmaking process, what makes a
• 34:29
  powerful film is empathy. And our film definitely will
• 34:33
  draw empathy from the audience. And I just hope and pray that it
• 34:36
  will help motivate people to also fight for change because
• 34:40
  it's, you know, where I'm part of organizations and there's
• 34:44
  organizations, attorneys, advocates, you know, that are
• 34:46
  also fighting for change. But it's, it's something that
• 34:48
  where so many people need to get involved because it's such a,
• 34:51
  you know, it's a huge issue that needs to be fixed.
• 34:57
  A couple of years ago I watched a documentary series called The
• 35:02
  Vow. It was made by people that had
• 35:06
  survived this this cult situation.
• 35:10
  And the documentarian Mark Vicente, who filmed it made it
• 35:16
  was also part of that cult and it documented their experiences
• 35:22
  over time when they're in the cult and then also later on
• 35:26
  coming out of it and then the convictions that happened
• 35:28
  thereafter, etcetera. Now, the reason I bring this up
• 35:31
  is that it was, it was made as a series.
• 35:36
  It ended, I think it was in 2021-2022, something like that.
• 35:41
  And then I remember thinking at the end, like, oh, this story is
• 35:44
  is far from over. And I was right.
• 35:47
  Two years later, there was a second season, a follow up.
• 35:50
  And it gave us kind of more of a, a conclusion to the story, so
• 35:55
  to speak. And obviously stories never end.
• 35:59
  You know, they keep going in in some shape or form, but at least
• 36:03
  the the main crux of it had had ended.
• 36:06
  I've not seen your documentary yet.
• 36:08
  I've heard most of a snapshot of your story.
• 36:13
  But I understand that the story is not over now, given the fact
• 36:17
  that you're still paving your story and you've now filmed and
• 36:23
  and documented your story. Do we see a follow up in the
• 36:30
  future maybe when you've when you've achieved that, that
• 36:34
  winning core and you've sort of come out of the other side.
• 36:38
  Yes, we would like to definitely have a follow up.
• 36:41
  I I was actually the production company that I work with.
• 36:45
  We would love to have a docu series because we know so many
• 36:49
  other compelling stories as well.
• 36:51
  Like this could go on forever because you know, this honestly,
• 36:54
  this is happening to doctors, nurses, people in the military
• 36:57
  and the government, engineers, teachers, firefighters.
• 37:02
  It's happening to so many people.
• 37:03
  And it doesn't matter which career you have, how much money
• 37:05
  you have or which nationality you are.
• 37:07
  It's happening to people everywhere.
• 37:09
  And you know, that's the shocking part to me.
• 37:12
  I'm like, how did this happen to a doctor?
• 37:14
  And he was wrongfully accused from his own hospital.
• 37:17
  And then even in California, there's a doctor and his wife,
• 37:20
  nurse. This happened to them as well.
• 37:22
  The child passed away. They were charged with like,
• 37:25
  murder and manslaughter. And it was just shocking.
• 37:27
  And they took their kids and also that child had a medical
• 37:31
  condition. But they put their families
• 37:32
  through such a horrible nightmare without, you know,
• 37:36
  having the proper testing, having proof and evidence.
• 37:39
  You know, it's yes, we, we are strongly firm on yes, let's,
• 37:43
  let's help children that are being abused.
• 37:45
  But then on the other end of it, there are children that are not
• 37:48
  being abused that have medical conditions like why, why don't
• 37:52
  we have a second the right to a second opinion?
• 37:54
  Why can't we call in specialists?
• 37:56
  I asked if my son could see a neurologist and they said no.
• 37:59
  I asked if he could have a second opinion.
• 38:01
  They said no. So once this happens, once
• 38:03
  there's suspicious child abuse, like a suspicion of child abuse
• 38:07
  or allegations in a hospital, you are trapped.
• 38:10
  You are not going anywhere. You're not getting a second
• 38:12
  opinion. I just want to take it back for
• 38:17
  a second and focus on you and your family sort of during and,
• 38:22
  and the aftermath of everything you went through.
• 38:24
  So let's focus in on. So at the moment that your your
• 38:30
  children are taken away, this is devastating for any parent to
• 38:33
  have to deal with. Walk me through how you're
• 38:39
  coping with this situation, how you and your husband and your
• 38:42
  family were coping given what was going on.
• 38:45
  Well, honestly, my children's, my children's father and I are
• 38:49
  not together anymore. It's, it's not because of what
• 38:52
  happened. It's just because of, you know,
• 38:54
  sometimes people are just so different and it's really tough
• 38:56
  for them to, you know, see things eye to eye.
• 38:59
  And it's we are great Co parents.
• 39:02
  We take care of our children and they're well taken care of.
• 39:06
  It's just, it's really tough because just navigating the
• 39:10
  whole, you know, going through that situation, healing from it.
• 39:14
  I'm just, I think I thank God for my faith and prayer and my
• 39:19
  the support from my family and friends, because that has helped
• 39:22
  so much. And then connecting with so many
• 39:24
  other people that are going through it helps as well.
• 39:27
  But honestly, this really challenged my faith because it,
• 39:32
  it's like, you know, when you try to do everything right in
• 39:35
  life and you just question like, how can this even happen to me?
• 39:39
  Like I remember praying and I'm like, why did this even happen?
• 39:42
  Like why can't we be spared from this horrible, emotionally
• 39:45
  traumatic situation? But then you realize that
• 39:49
  eventually, years later, I could, we could turn our pain
• 39:52
  into purpose to help many other people someday.
• 39:54
  And that's the way I try to view it is like, yes, it was such a
• 39:57
  horrible situation and it hurt my children and my family so, so
• 40:01
  deeply. Is is like, I can't even explain
• 40:04
  the hurt and pain for not having my children for 150 days.
• 40:09
  Every second of every day that I didn't have them was so
• 40:12
  excruciatingly painful and heartbreaking.
• 40:15
  I had to pray for God to give me the strength to get through it
• 40:18
  because it was so heartbreaking not having my children for 150
• 40:21
  days. And not knowing if I'd ever get
• 40:23
  them back because only 35% of parents get their children back
• 40:27
  even though they did nothing wrong.
• 40:30
  It's it's just. Sorry.
• 40:33
  Oh, no, sorry. Good.
• 40:35
  All I was going to add is that I often think about this in in
• 40:39
  situations like this where particularly with many of the
• 40:42
  heartbreaking stories I've heard on the show over the last six
• 40:46
  years of doing the show, where my head tends to go to is the
• 40:51
  day-to-day. Like when you think about the
• 40:55
  worst moments in your life, you, it's like everything's
• 41:02
  paralysed. You're almost like you're not.
• 41:05
  It doesn't feel surreal. And in a weird, kind of messed
• 41:09
  up way, the concept of like going to work just feels
• 41:12
  laughable, even though it's something you have to do.
• 41:15
  I mean, how do you do that? Like, how, how were you coping
• 41:19
  with stuff like that? Like, I understand, obviously,
• 41:22
  like you said, like your faith and, and support from friends,
• 41:24
  but it must feel pretty pointless to like to go to work
• 41:30
  and do stuff like that all the while, like you, you kids are,
• 41:33
  you know, out there and, and it's a powerless situation.
• 41:36
  And like, how, how were you contending with that?
• 41:40
  Like how did you get through that?
• 41:42
  Get through. That honestly, it was so
• 41:44
  heartbreaking because it's, you know, they were placed in a
• 41:48
  foster care with strangers. I didn't even know.
• 41:50
  I didn't even know if they're being well taken care of.
• 41:52
  What if they're being abused? And I only got to see them twice
• 41:55
  a day for only two hours at the CPS office And there's this big
• 41:59
  glass window there and they treat you like you're this
• 42:01
  horrible criminal and you have to be supervised with with them
• 42:04
  at all times. So just like not having them
• 42:08
  every day was so heartbreaking because they're with us every
• 42:11
  day. They're never away from us.
• 42:13
  And I remember just like just trying to praying.
• 42:18
  And I'm like, God, I feel so heartbroken right now.
• 42:21
  I felt like I didn't have the energy to just go make myself
• 42:24
  food. So I would pray and I'm like,
• 42:26
  please just give me the energy to go make myself some food and
• 42:30
  to stay strong to fight for my children because the, the
• 42:33
  heartache and emotional pain that you feel not having your
• 42:37
  children every day all like every moment of every day was so
• 42:41
  excruciatingly painful. I can't even explain it.
• 42:44
  And honestly, there are parents that have committed suicide
• 42:47
  because this the the pain is so deep.
• 42:50
  There's another documentary that was briefly featured and called
• 42:54
  Take care of my it's on Netflix. And sadly, the mother, you know,
• 42:58
  in that situation actually did that because it's, it's the
• 43:02
  pain. Like I, I got emotional when I
• 43:06
  watched that because I'm like, I understand the pain that she
• 43:08
  felt and all the parents that have lost their children is so
• 43:11
  painful. And that's, that's The thing is
• 43:14
  like, why are there no laws to protect children and families
• 43:17
  from this deep emotional pain that hurts so bad to your core?
• 43:21
  And the children as well. My son would cry every night and
• 43:25
  he was so he was so sad without having me in his presence
• 43:28
  because I was always there. And it's, it's just, you know,
• 43:31
  that's what hurts me so much is when mothers call me and contact
• 43:35
  me, contacting me and they're crying and they're saying they
• 43:38
  took my baby too. You know, it's hard for me to
• 43:41
  not get emotional as well because I know and can connect
• 43:44
  with that deep pain that they're feeling.
• 43:47
  And that's why we've been trying to raise awareness and share our
• 43:49
  story. And that's why we made our
• 43:50
  documentary, because I hope and pray that this awareness can
• 43:54
  reach millions of people someday worldwide and help spark a a
• 44:00
  help light a spark across our nation and worldwide for some
• 44:02
  much needed changes. Let's talk about that.
• 44:06
  What have been the kind of most memorable interactions you've
• 44:12
  had over the subsequent years? Talking about your story,
• 44:17
  sharing your story and and meeting people and and helping
• 44:20
  people with misdiagnosis situations.
• 44:23
  Honestly, with meeting with lawmakers, it's been awesome
• 44:27
  because I've been able to connect with some that actually
• 44:29
  are. There's a chair and state
• 44:32
  representative that told me he's, he said, I'm so glad that
• 44:36
  your story and other family stories was in the news and the
• 44:38
  media because it shall help shine a light on how broken the
• 44:41
  system is. And we, we want to work with you
• 44:44
  to try to fix it. And then 2 1/2 years later that
• 44:47
  law was passed and it takes a very long time to, you know, put
• 44:51
  a lot together and have it passed and have a go through the
• 44:53
  state and the Senate. And thankfully after 2 1/2 years
• 44:57
  it happened. And then also I remember her
• 45:00
  mother, she contacted me and she was crying and she was like,
• 45:02
  they took my baby. Please help me.
• 45:04
  I don't know what to do. I'm so heartbroken.
• 45:06
  And I asked her what state she was in.
• 45:08
  And I, I remember there's an amazing attorney in Texas that
• 45:13
  he's somehow able to help get children returned back faster to
• 45:17
  their parents. So I, I recommended that
• 45:20
  attorney. And you know, you also need a
• 45:22
  medical expert too, to help try to correctly diagnose him.
• 45:25
  So then she hired the senator, this attorney, and a few months
• 45:29
  later she got her baby girl back.
• 45:30
  And I was like, so happy and emotional.
• 45:33
  I'm like, thank God. To anyone who's listening right
• 45:39
  now who might be questioning a DICE diagnosis, you know they're
• 45:44
  in a similar situation to yourself.
• 45:45
  Could even be the same situation.
• 45:48
  Or for people who are actively dealing with the fallout of a
• 45:51
  misdiagnosis, what advice could you give to them?
• 45:56
  To just know that you're not alone, stay strong and never
• 46:00
  give up. And you know, it seems so easy
• 46:04
  to have that type of suggestion or but it's going through it
• 46:09
  myself is like you first you feel so alone that no one else
• 46:13
  is going through this. So you feel so alone and
• 46:14
  isolated. But then a few years later, I
• 46:17
  was able to connect with other people.
• 46:18
  Like, wow, so many other people are going through this too.
• 46:21
  And to stay strong and to never give up.
• 46:23
  I had to pray so much and just ask God to give me the strength
• 46:27
  to get through this, to fight to get my children back.
• 46:29
  Because honestly, you're so heartbroken and devastated not
• 46:32
  having your children. And then you have to go to court
• 46:35
  for many hearings. And you know, one month you get
• 46:38
  a hearing and then you don't get another hearing for two, 3-4
• 46:40
  months. And so you just hold on to this
• 46:42
  hope, like, when could I get my children back?
• 46:45
  And you're fighting with your attorneys.
• 46:47
  And oftentimes you're sitting in that courtroom, you can't say
• 46:49
  anything. Your attorney sometimes barely
• 46:52
  speaks. And they're like, OK, well,
• 46:53
  let's let's reconvene and meet again in a few months.
• 46:56
  And it's like, and then they have you go through all these
• 46:58
  classes. You have to have a psychological
• 47:02
  evaluation. You have to go to mandatory
• 47:04
  therapy. You have to take protective
• 47:06
  parenting class. And people are have have to work
• 47:09
  too and then see their kids. And it's like, how do you
• 47:12
  emotionally function and do all these things and jump through
• 47:16
  all these hoops when you are so heartbroken and devastated not
• 47:19
  having your children? What is the concept of
• 47:21
  misdiagnosis taught you about life?
• 47:24
  The concept of misdiagnosis has has shown me about life.
• 47:28
  Can you go a little further into that question?
• 47:30
  I I don't so I can elaborate. Yeah, I wasn't really sure how
• 47:36
  to word it either. I was kind of.
• 47:38
  So I, I often ask people, I always have questions at the end
• 47:42
  of the show and they're kind of like, you know, reflective
• 47:46
  questions. It could be about what we've
• 47:48
  spoken about. It could just be in general, I
• 47:50
  suppose. Just what has misdiagnosis
• 47:52
  taught you about life? Oh, OK.
• 47:56
  Wow, that's a, that's a good question.
• 47:58
  Honestly, it has really opened my eyes to how everything really
• 48:03
  is because, you know, we're often being told like, oh, you
• 48:07
  have all these laws and rights to protect you.
• 48:10
  CPS is doing everything to protect children.
• 48:13
  And when you go through this situation, you know, when you're
• 48:16
  in a hospital and you're going to court and you have attorneys
• 48:20
  and there's judges and all these things that are happening, it
• 48:23
  opens your eyes to how the system really is like the truth
• 48:27
  of how it really is as opposed to what we're being told.
• 48:31
  And granted, you know, there's good and bad and everything.
• 48:34
  Doctors taken oath of do no harm and sometimes they can lie and
• 48:40
  say children are being abused and when they're not or
• 48:43
  sometimes this lady she went through a similar situation
• 48:48
  with, she works in the medical system and she said, Lorena,
• 48:51
  honestly, the US in the medical system, some of us don't really
• 48:55
  know this. This is happening and doctors
• 48:57
  are being trained to see, OK, so say they see an MRI and they say
• 49:02
  fluid in a child's head and they see a hemorrhaging.
• 49:06
  Like there's there's a subdural collection of blood, a little
• 49:09
  bit of blood, and then there's CSF fluid.
• 49:12
  They immediately assume it's abuse because they're being
• 49:15
  taught it's abuse. These doctors aren't being
• 49:17
  taught like, hey, if you see fluid on an MRI or a CAT scan,
• 49:22
  there are other possibilities and other medical conditions
• 49:25
  that can also that this can also be.
• 49:28
  And it's not necessarily child abuse.
• 49:31
  So that's also the problem as well as, you know, if doctors
• 49:34
  are being trained in school and being told, if you see this,
• 49:38
  this is abuse. And you know, that's the thing
• 49:41
  too is like it's so important to have a medical expert that is
• 49:46
  trained and qualified, like a neurologist.
• 49:49
  A neurologist would be able to say, OK, this is what this
• 49:51
  really is. And there was never.
• 49:55
  And I asked if my son could see a neurologist, they said no.
• 49:59
  And I was very concerned about that.
• 50:01
  And I'm like, why? Why not?
• 50:02
  That's a specialist. You know, it's, it's important
• 50:04
  for him to see a specialist. And they said no.
• 50:07
  So it's, it's very important. Like there are these child abuse
• 50:11
  pediatricians in, in hospitals. And I, I don't understand how
• 50:16
  they're giving so much authority to child abuse pediatricians
• 50:20
  because they are not a specialist in all types of
• 50:22
  different medical conditions. Because there's card, you know,
• 50:26
  there's cardiology, there's geneticists, there's
• 50:30
  neurologists, there's doctors that specialize in broken bones.
• 50:36
  There's so many other conditions that could that can be
• 50:39
  misdiagnosed with child abuse. And it's very concerning that
• 50:42
  child abuse pediatricians are given so much, you know,
• 50:45
  authority to say, oh, this is what this is.
• 50:49
  But the medical expert in our situation said she was not
• 50:54
  properly trained or qualified to read his images correctly.
• 50:57
  Otherwise she would have been able to correctly diagnose him
• 50:59
  herself. And she did not.
• 51:01
  So that's the other concern is why are these children not being
• 51:05
  able to get a second opinion? Why are they not letting medical
• 51:09
  experts that are properly trained and qualified in the
• 51:13
  type of, you know, situation that that it's in?
• 51:16
  Because it's like there's also children that have broken bones.
• 51:20
  But then they don't realize that this could be a genetic
• 51:23
  condition where their bones could be fragile and break
• 51:26
  easily, or it could be something like osteogenia imperfecta.
• 51:30
  I believe I've heard of that as well.
• 51:32
  So it's it's just very concerning that you know,
• 51:34
  they're giving so much power and authority to one doctor when
• 51:37
  this could, you know, medical experts that are specifically
• 51:41
  trained and qualified in that particular field should be
• 51:45
  looking at the child, you know, giving the child a proper exam,
• 51:49
  looking through all the medical records from birth, you know,
• 51:52
  prenatal records all the way until however the child is.
• 51:55
  It's so important. But you know, unfortunately
• 51:57
  those precautions are not being taken when they should and
• 52:01
  you're unfortunately guilty until you prove yourself
• 52:03
  innocent type of thing. Has this ruined your trust in
• 52:12
  medical professionals? The state police?
• 52:16
  Like how do you feel about them now?
• 52:18
  You know, honestly, it has definitely affected my trust in
• 52:22
  all aspects of the situation because you know, this, there's
• 52:26
  so many that are involved in this situation and it definitely
• 52:30
  affected my trust in them for sure.
• 52:32
  And I just, I really strongly believe in, you know, a second
• 52:35
  opinion. Like my, my stepdad, he has
• 52:40
  Melanoma and my mom said that, you know, there's a spot that's
• 52:43
  resurfacing. They took a sample and they said
• 52:46
  it's not cancerous, but it's, you know, it's red and it looks
• 52:49
  concerning. So I even told her I'm like,
• 52:51
  hey, it's great to get a second opinion just in case.
• 52:53
  Like I got a second opinion with my son eventually through our
• 52:57
  attorney, through a medical expert.
• 52:58
  And thank God that we did, because he was able to be
• 53:00
  correctly diagnosed. I'm really happy that that that,
• 53:05
  that it worked out for you, at least where that's concerned.
• 53:08
  I know we're not at the end of the journey just yet, but I'm
• 53:12
  glad to just hear that, you know, you got your kids back and
• 53:17
  you're able to, to prove it all and, and, you know, keep
• 53:21
  fighting and, and, and turn your experience into something
• 53:24
  positive, you know, which is is easier said than done, but it's
• 53:28
  inspiring stuff. And you know, that's, I'm glad
• 53:32
  to be able to share that story here on on the podcast.
• 53:34
  So thank you. Thank you I really appreciate
• 53:37
  you and for having me on your your podcast.
• 53:39
  And also the thing it too is well is with my son.
• 53:42
  So what happened is they said he needs to have surgery to drain
• 53:46
  the fluid from his head. So they drain the fluid through
• 53:48
  an external VP shunt and then a few weeks later the fluid re
• 53:51
  accumulated and they said he has a chronic condition.
• 53:54
  So I asked them, I was like, why does he have this chronic
• 53:56
  condition? And they said, we don't know.
• 53:59
  And I'm, I'm like, this is so weird.
• 54:01
  They're trying to say he's, he's been abused now it's a chronic
• 54:04
  condition. This makes no sense to me.
• 54:06
  And I can't have, he can't see a neurologist or I can't get a
• 54:09
  second opinion. So then they had to have a
• 54:14
  second surgery for an internal BP shunt to be placed because he
• 54:18
  had a chronic condition. So then he had to have a second
• 54:21
  surgery. And that was so heartbreaking to
• 54:22
  see my baby have to go through two very serious brain brain
• 54:26
  surgeries. And thankfully this surgery was
• 54:31
  a success when he was a baby. And he still has the BP shunt to
• 54:34
  help drain the fluid from his head because he has a chronic
• 54:37
  condition from the hydrocephalus and the birth injury.
• 54:41
  Do you think those doctors were just, I don't know, like just
• 54:46
  terrible people or they just were looking?
• 54:49
  I just didn't like the look of you, so they decided to make
• 54:52
  your life hell. I mean, you know what I'm trying
• 54:56
  to ask. I don't know if I'm really
• 54:57
  asking the question very well, but it it just seems very
• 55:01
  callous, very cold, very dismissive, erratic I would say
• 55:07
  as well. And you know, that's what didn't
• 55:11
  make any sense to me. We're at the, we're at the
• 55:13
  hospital and we're telling the doctors and the nurses and CPS.
• 55:17
  I was telling my son, telling them my son has never been
• 55:20
  abused. And they kept asking me, who
• 55:22
  shook your son? I was like, no one shook my son
• 55:25
  because they were trying to say shake and baby syndrome.
• 55:27
  I was like, no one shook my son. He was never hurt.
• 55:29
  And they did not want to believe what we said.
• 55:31
  And they're acting very cold and very mean to us.
• 55:34
  And they're treating us like we're these horrible child
• 55:36
  abusers when we weren't. And we're telling them the
• 55:39
  truth. And they didn't want to listen
• 55:41
  to anything that we had to say. Yeah, And, and that's the thing
• 55:46
  as well. Like I understand if you have
• 55:49
  suspicions and you're a medical professional or you're you're
• 55:52
  working in law. I understand that completely.
• 55:55
  When allegations like that are made, you know, it's it's very
• 56:00
  serious. Like, the closest thing I could
• 56:02
  really compare it to as far as like at least how, how it should
• 56:07
  go is let's say you're a teacher in a school and you're accused
• 56:12
  of something, right. I don't know how it works in the
• 56:15
  States, but here in the UK, you're immediately suspended.
• 56:18
  But you're not fired. You're suspended.
• 56:21
  It's investigated. And then, you know, if you're
• 56:25
  guilty, obviously you're fired and the law takes over from
• 56:28
  there if need be. Or if you know, it's proven,
• 56:33
  you're innocent, you're reinstated.
• 56:36
  Goes on like normal. Yeah, the court of opinion,
• 56:38
  public opinion is going to be tricky.
• 56:40
  That's just people, isn't it? It's not.
• 56:42
  You can't really avoid that. But when it comes to how the
• 56:47
  system should work, that's how it should should work out.
• 56:50
  Like, for instance, just kind of going over a few things before
• 56:53
  we move on. They had no proof.
• 56:57
  They had suspicions. I was glad to hear you were at
• 57:04
  least able to see your kids in some capacity.
• 57:08
  I know it was, you know, horrific kind of situation, but
• 57:13
  at least you're able to like physically see them and be like,
• 57:16
  OK, I at least know that they're alive and that, you know, they
• 57:21
  are. Oh well, not OK, but like I can
• 57:24
  see them, you know. But I, I would argue they should
• 57:29
  have had like a, a supervisor situation, like a state
• 57:33
  appointed official. That's their present when you
• 57:37
  see your kids. So you can physically be with
• 57:39
  them, but that person has to be there.
• 57:41
  And yeah, it sucks that they have to be there, but then you
• 57:44
  still get to see your kids. And then throughout that entire
• 57:47
  process, that person can then take notes.
• 57:50
  You know, they can be, it's useful for the law end as well.
• 57:54
  Like they for, for, you know, the the case against you.
• 57:57
  They can go well, you know, I've been with this family for say a
• 58:00
  month and I've not seen any issues.
• 58:05
  You know, this is the relationship I've seen.
• 58:07
  And then that is useful as as part of the witnesses stuffing
• 58:14
  in court and stuff like do you know what I mean?
• 58:16
  Like I that. Yeah, there's, yeah, there's a
• 58:19
  child advocate through this court system called Casa, and
• 58:22
  they did a great job helping us because, you know, they met with
• 58:26
  us, They met with my children, spent time with us and like,
• 58:28
  wow, this doesn't seem right. Something seems off and they
• 58:31
  went into the CPS office and looked through my children's
• 58:34
  files and they told me I found zero evidence of any child
• 58:37
  abuse. Someone have this case dismissed
• 58:39
  because I told him how much more do we have to suffer through
• 58:42
  this? You know, I've lost my kids.
• 58:43
  Yes, I got them back. But then with a seller house,
• 58:46
  you know, there's mounting attorney fees that we're still
• 58:49
  paying off. Like how much more do we have to
• 58:51
  suffer for this? And then he said, you know, I'm
• 58:54
  not request for this case to be dismissed.
• 58:56
  Like, he realized we went through enough, you know, it was
• 58:59
  horrible. And we never got an apology from
• 59:01
  anyone, not CPS, not the Criminal Court system.
• 59:05
  They never said, oh, whoops, sorry, we charged you with, you
• 59:08
  know, my children's father. Sorry, we charged you with two
• 59:11
  serious felonies of two for 2 1/2 years and pretty much ruined
• 59:14
  your career and your life. But you know, there's never any
• 59:17
  apologies at all. What?
• 59:24
  What do you see coming out of all of this in the future?
• 59:28
  Like where's your head at as far as where you think this is
• 59:32
  going? Honestly, I, I really hope that
• 59:37
  our documentary will bring forth a huge awareness across our
• 59:41
  nation and worldwide, and I hope millions of people will see it
• 59:43
  someday. And I hope that it will help
• 59:46
  bring forth laws and, and bills to help protect children and
• 59:50
  families. And it's just, you know, for
• 59:54
  it's so important for so many people to see it, you know,
• 59:57
  judges, people in the court system, attorneys, people that
• 1:00:02
  are police officers, sheriff's, you know, they need to know that
• 1:00:04
  this is happening. And like, how do we protect
• 1:00:07
  children and families? How, how can we make changes to
• 1:00:10
  the system so that this doesn't continue to happen?
• 1:00:12
  Because oftentimes, honestly, have you ever heard like, oh,
• 1:00:16
  just take the children, you know, we need to rule on
• 1:00:18
  caution. Like what if they're being
• 1:00:19
  abused? But.
• 1:00:22
  That's another important thing that's shared in my documentary
• 1:00:25
  is the emotional and mental aspect of this as well.
• 1:00:28
  Like how does this emotional, huge emotional trauma affect
• 1:00:32
  children and families? And there's some information in
• 1:00:35
  my documentary that is so important because it answers the
• 1:00:39
  the question of the title, you know, like the hidden truth of
• 1:00:43
  misdiagnosis. My documentary definitely
• 1:00:45
  touches base on that and it goes in depth and I made it so it can
• 1:00:48
  help children and families because so many children and
• 1:00:51
  families are left with, we were so emotionally traumatized.
• 1:00:55
  How do we heal from this? Is it's a common question that
• 1:00:59
  people have asked me and that's why I made my documentary as
• 1:01:01
  well, is to help show families like how how can you heal from
• 1:01:05
  this? Thank you very, very, very much
• 1:01:11
  for sharing your story. I've got final couple of
• 1:01:13
  questions for you, completely unrelated to today's show.
• 1:01:17
  Just questions I ask every single guest.
• 1:01:20
  OK, here we go. What's the worst advice you've
• 1:01:26
  ever received? The worst advice I've ever
• 1:01:30
  received. Let me think about that.
• 1:01:33
  That's a really good question. The worst advice I've ever
• 1:01:40
  received. OK, so there there was this
• 1:01:44
  therapist and she said why? Why are you saying your son
• 1:01:49
  hasn't been abused? Why don't you just admit it or
• 1:01:52
  acknowledge it? And I was like, shocked.
• 1:01:55
  I'm like, excuse me? She was like CPS said your son
• 1:01:58
  was abused. Why don't you just admit it or
• 1:02:00
  acknowledge it? I was like, because that never
• 1:02:01
  happened. I'm not going to say something
• 1:02:03
  that's not true or lie because that never happened.
• 1:02:07
  So that advice of her trying to tell me to admit to something
• 1:02:11
  that never happened was the the worst advice I believe.
• 1:02:15
  Did you like get up in that moment and be like, you know
• 1:02:17
  what, I'm just going to leave. I wanted to, but you're forced
• 1:02:22
  to see a therapist through the court system.
• 1:02:24
  She eventually she did discharge me because she said she doesn't
• 1:02:28
  need therapy. We're going to discharge her.
• 1:02:30
  And then in in the courtroom, they tried to make me look bad
• 1:02:33
  because I got discharged from therapy, which was crazy.
• 1:02:36
  I'm like, I don't need therapy, but they forced you to see a
• 1:02:39
  therapist. So my attorney said, can she
• 1:02:41
  just have see another therapist? And then the judge said yes.
• 1:02:45
  So and then thankfully the other one that I was forced to see
• 1:02:48
  pretty much she believed me. She's like, something doesn't
• 1:02:52
  seem right about this. No, I, I believe you.
• 1:02:55
  And it, it helps so much to have people believe that what you're
• 1:03:00
  saying is true. So I just thank God for her
• 1:03:03
  because she believed me like the other one obviously did it.
• 1:03:06
  And that was horrible advice. Like why would I admit to
• 1:03:09
  something that is not true and that didn't happen?
• 1:03:11
  Why would I lie and say oh this happened when it did not?
• 1:03:15
  I'd argue that's really unprofessional with the
• 1:03:17
  therapist as well because are they not supposed to be
• 1:03:20
  impartial and like OK let's look at the therapy for the for the
• 1:03:24
  second right? Isn't the therapy supposed to be
• 1:03:26
  for your personal well-being to check that your mental state is
• 1:03:30
  OK and that you're OK? Do you know what I mean?
• 1:03:33
  That's that's not going to help your well-being.
• 1:03:36
  Yeah, it's kind of a conflict of interest and it probably
• 1:03:39
  violates, you know, laws like HIPAA, but they're able to
• 1:03:43
  access all of that. So, you know, they're all in.
• 1:03:47
  It would be better to get if I was allowed to have my own
• 1:03:51
  therapist and it'd be more confidential, but they have
• 1:03:54
  access to all of that. Yeah, and it's fine if they have
• 1:03:59
  access to your therapist. I just mean that like the the
• 1:04:05
  way in which your therapist was speaking to you is
• 1:04:09
  unprofessional. It's, I mean, it's as though
• 1:04:12
  they were, well, they straight up pretty much just accused you
• 1:04:17
  of something in the middle of a therapy session.
• 1:04:20
  And it's like, well, you can't do that.
• 1:04:22
  Yeah, yeah, that's why I was shocked.
• 1:04:24
  I, I don't think you're allowed to do that.
• 1:04:26
  I was shocked. I was like, what?
• 1:04:28
  Excuse me? I didn't really like, I did.
• 1:04:32
  I definitely wanted to get up and walk out and leave, but then
• 1:04:34
  I didn't want to get in trouble because you are forced to see a
• 1:04:38
  therapist. Like once there is a case on any
• 1:04:41
  parent or you know, on any parent or like family member or
• 1:04:45
  caregiver, they you have to have medical, you have to have a
• 1:04:49
  psychological evaluation, you have to see a therapist, you
• 1:04:51
  have to go to classes, you have to jump through all these hoops
• 1:04:54
  to get your children back. And it's hard because you're so
• 1:04:57
  heartbroken of not having your children and this whole horrible
• 1:05:00
  situation. And then you have to go to work
• 1:05:02
  and see your kids and then go through, jump through all their
• 1:05:05
  hoops. It's so hard, so difficult.
• 1:05:11
  What's the best advice you've ever received?
• 1:05:14
  The best advice I've ever received, let me see, I think it
• 1:05:23
  was a family member and she said keep the faith for he is
• 1:05:29
  faithful. Even though you're going through
• 1:05:30
  a horrible situation right now, God can turn it around and to
• 1:05:34
  get to help many other people someday.
• 1:05:40
  What's the biggest life lesson you've learned so far?
• 1:05:45
  That life can be very, very tough at times.
• 1:05:48
  You know, we, we think just by doing everything the right way,
• 1:05:51
  you know, everything that we're supposed to being great
• 1:05:53
  citizens, helping others. Life can be very hard someday,
• 1:05:58
  and sometimes bad things happen to good people, but you could
• 1:06:01
  turn your pain into purpose to help many others someday.
• 1:06:08
  You must have been angry for for a while at one point.
• 1:06:14
  How did you push through that and decide, you know what, I'm
• 1:06:18
  going to make something positive out of it.
• 1:06:22
  I was so angry and hurt that this situation happened.
• 1:06:24
  What hurt me the most was seeing my kids hurt and how it affected
• 1:06:29
  them. And you know, as a parent or
• 1:06:31
  even if you have like nieces and nephews or friends that have
• 1:06:35
  children, you have this feeling that you want to protect them.
• 1:06:38
  And that was what was so hard for me as, as their mother, I
• 1:06:42
  felt the responsibility to protect them, and I couldn't.
• 1:06:45
  That was so heartbreaking. I couldn't protect them from all
• 1:06:47
  this hurt and pain that they're experiencing from the system.
• 1:06:51
  And just seeing how much it really affected my kids at that
• 1:06:53
  time was so heartbreaking. And I felt like my hands were
• 1:06:57
  tied behind my back and I couldn't do anything to help
• 1:06:59
  them. But moving forward, you
• 1:07:04
  obviously you chose to turn it into a positive thing.
• 1:07:09
  You chose to start speaking about it.
• 1:07:12
  How did you get to that point or that realization point?
• 1:07:16
  I honestly, I took like a year. So from 2018, 2018, I took a
• 1:07:21
  year to try to heal from it. And I wrote my book as a healing
• 1:07:26
  process to write about it and speak about it.
• 1:07:28
  But at first I felt so hurt and and pain that I didn't want to
• 1:07:32
  speak about it. Honestly, I didn't want to speak
• 1:07:34
  about it. I didn't want to fight for
• 1:07:36
  change because when I was praying, I'm like, how am I
• 1:07:38
  supposed to heal from something so horrible and traumatic and
• 1:07:42
  fight for change at the same time?
• 1:07:44
  Because honestly, there I went into a lot a senator's office
• 1:07:49
  and as a federal building, you had to go through security and
• 1:07:52
  their office. There's like all these state
• 1:07:54
  seals everywhere and the flags and here I am like I'm like, oh
• 1:07:59
  man, I'm I want to fight for change, but I'm still healing
• 1:08:01
  from this. So it's so hard.
• 1:08:02
  I'm like, here, I'm crying, talking about this at this, you
• 1:08:06
  know, official office and with a senator's assistant.
• 1:08:09
  And I'm crying about this. And I don't like crying in front
• 1:08:11
  of people because the way I was raised, I was raised with the
• 1:08:15
  elder brothers and crying was, you know, shown as weakness.
• 1:08:18
  And at that time, I'm like, oh, my gosh, I don't want to be
• 1:08:21
  crying in front of lawmakers. But I couldn't help it.
• 1:08:25
  That was the toughest part for me is to try to heal from it and
• 1:08:28
  fight for change at the same time.
• 1:08:29
  But thankfully, over the years, you know, I've been able to
• 1:08:31
  continue to heal from it and it still does.
• 1:08:34
  It doesn't affect me as much as it did before, but it still
• 1:08:38
  does. But I'm able to bring myself
• 1:08:42
  back emotionally, like remind myself these are just, you know,
• 1:08:45
  painful or traumatic memories of the past.
• 1:08:47
  This is a present. Things are so much better now.
• 1:08:49
  But that was the toughest thing for me is to fight for change
• 1:08:52
  and heal from it at the same time.
• 1:08:57
  Do you have any upcoming projects or final thoughts that
• 1:09:00
  you'd like to share with our listeners?
• 1:09:03
  We are speaking about making our second documentary and it would
• 1:09:09
  be amazing to have a docu series because there's, you know, if
• 1:09:13
  it's a continuation of our story, if that's what the
• 1:09:15
  audience wants to see or if there's, we know so many other
• 1:09:19
  families with compelling stories.
• 1:09:20
  But we would definitely love to keep going and keep making
• 1:09:24
  documentaries because what I love about documentaries as we
• 1:09:27
  make it kind of like a movie, it's kind of like a movie
• 1:09:29
  documentary. You know, there's music and
• 1:09:31
  images to make it more captivating and interesting and
• 1:09:35
  it's, it's taking someone's story and bringing it to life to
• 1:09:40
  help raise awareness and help create change.
• 1:09:45
  I really wish you the best of luck with it.
• 1:09:47
  I'm excited to see the documentary when it's released.
• 1:09:50
  Thank you, I'll definitely know. Yeah, let me know.
• 1:09:53
  I'll I'll share it with everybody.
• 1:09:56
  Thank you. And yeah, I appreciate you.
• 1:09:59
  Thank you so much for for appearing on the show, for
• 1:10:02
  sharing your story. Amazing stuff.
• 1:10:06
  You're an amazing person. Well done, well done.
• 1:10:08
  Thank you. You are too.
• 1:10:09
  Thank you so much for having me on your podcast.
• 1:10:11
  I really appreciate you. It's been an absolute pleasure.
• 1:10:14
  Pleasure to all the listeners of the Christian Read Podcast.
• 1:10:20
  Thank you so much for watching and listening and I hope you got
• 1:10:23
  you got as much as I did. As always, be safe, be well, and
• 1:10:31
  I'll see you all in the next one.