Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Luke Molloy about his choice of Father’s Day

Transcript

Talks to Luke Molloy about his choice of Father’s Day · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:23
  None a. Hamster with a blunt penknife
• 0:35
  for doing. Quicker, quicker.
• 0:40
  Quicker what Luke, Dylan Malloy, my friends killed when doing a
• 0:49
  podcast with hamster, a blunt penknife?
• 0:52
  Host Joe Ford I thought I won't go with this.
• 0:58
  I I It really took me a second to realize what you were doing
• 1:01
  then. Oh well, my other thing was
• 1:03
  going to be go on in, go back to your bloody hardest and see if I
• 1:07
  care. Yeah, and he just waltzes off.
• 1:10
  Don't touch the baby rose. Oh God, isn't it awful?
• 1:16
  What? What?
• 1:17
  Did anyone else say that? Welcome back to EastEnders in
• 1:20
  Doctor Who with me, Joe Ford and my host today, Mr. Luke Malloy.
• 1:26
  Hello. I'm back.
• 1:28
  He's. Back, baby, you couldn't keep
• 1:31
  him away. Though I'm back to JoJo that
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  every opinion he's got on Father's Day is incorrect.
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  Why are you saying that? As if you don't come on here all
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  the time and tell me that every opinion I ever had was
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  incorrect? We're never in simpatico, I
• 1:47
  feel. We are what to be.
• 1:52
  We do. We.
• 1:53
  We agreed on the other monsters. That was our first, our first
• 1:55
  two, yeah, because we're getting to know each other.
• 1:58
  We're starting then, so we. And then we got bored and we
• 2:00
  thought we'd start varying it up.
• 2:02
  Suddenly you're like, I want to do all these Muffet story.
• 2:05
  Oh God. And then I'm saying I want to
• 2:07
  do. Jodie Whitaker stories and
• 2:08
  you're going oh God. This this is a classic from
• 2:12
  series one. I went on to Who Gives a Flux
• 2:17
  recently with my Connor. And you had to pick out your
• 2:20
  duds and your studs from each Doctor of the new series.
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  OK, so your best and your worst of each Doctor.
• 2:28
  Yeah. Can you imagine?
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  Sometimes it was hard and sometimes it was easy.
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  Or my dud for Christopher Eccleston was a doddle.
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  It was this Father's Day. Interesting.
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  Are you 5 years old? Did you say?
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  That because this was my duds when I was like 5 years old.
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  Oh, I loved you at five years old.
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  You were man of great wisdom back in those days.
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  Yeah, I mean this, this almost There was certainly my least
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  favorite series, one when I was a kid.
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  I don't think it's a very good episode for a kid.
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  If I was, but not not every episode of Doctor Who should be
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  low, dreary, looking, overly sentimental.
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  Why would a child want to watch this?
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  Yeah, well, but then you've had the Dalek the week before.
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  Oh no you haven't. I'll.
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  Talk. You had the long game.
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  That one. Why the fuck aren't we talking
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  about that one? This one's better than Dalek.
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  I never thought you were mad. And you were?
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  32nd just then. And Asylum of the Daleks is
• 3:27
  better than Dalek, and Spy was better than Heaven sent.
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  Yeah, well, we'll get to that. We we will get to that on a on a
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  different night. Finally, I'll be the one
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  praising something, and you'll be the one great.
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  Sizing it, I think it would, I'll be in the majority here
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  saying that Father's Day is good, I think I.
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  I think it's quite an unpopular opinion to to not like it.
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  I think it would be fair to say, yeah, my Connor was looking me
• 3:54
  askance as if I had gone completely mad.
• 3:57
  Yeah. Right.
• 3:58
  So have you got like an overall reason?
• 4:01
  Is it so is this similar to that you don't like the Christmas
• 4:03
  Carol because of the way it does time travel?
• 4:06
  Is there, like, a similar overarching reason why you don't
• 4:09
  like Father's Day? Yeah, I think it's really
• 4:12
  fucking stupid. I think the Doctor's stupid.
• 4:15
  I think Rose is stupid. I do not like I I I think the
• 4:21
  level of emotion in the episode is ill judged.
• 4:24
  I feel as if Murray Gold oversells the music to an
• 4:27
  extreme level. I feel as if I'm watching a very
• 4:30
  poor episode of EastEnders with time travel shenanigans thrown
• 4:34
  in that don't make any sense. And I like a bit of logic in my
• 4:38
  science fiction, and it's just like a load of weird stuff
• 4:41
  happening. And I don't like that either.
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  It really feels like someone's just sat down at a typewriter
• 4:46
  and knocked out a Doctor Who script.
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  Oh. I didn't get that at all.
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  I think this is really tight. I think it's.
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  It it definitely puts the emotion 1st and all the sort of
• 4:56
  sci-fi stuff second. But I mean I think I I think I
• 5:00
  generally prefer when Doctor Who does that.
• 5:01
  In a way. We also have a massive issue
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  with Paul Cornell not as a person, so maybe charming,
• 5:09
  although his voices deeper than any man's naturally should be.
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  I don't even hear that. Hello Terence.
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  Perhaps you could tell me when you said the Doctor had an open
• 5:18
  on his face in all those books, were you saying that?
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  I don't know why I sound like a Dalek.
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  It's. Deeper.
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  It's it's deeper than that, isn't it?
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  Oh, I'm the actual of human nature.
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  Family of blood. So I oscillate between thinking
• 5:32
  he's a genius to thinking he's the worst Friar Doctor Who's
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  ever had. So I think human nature in both
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  forms is absolutely brilliant and I think stuff like No Future
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  in the New Adventures and Father's Day, it's some of the
• 5:47
  my least favorite. So it's it's a weird
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  relationship I have with him. What I don't like is how he
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  oversells the sentiment. I just and he does it a lot in
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  his books and he does it a lot here.
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  And one of my least favorite scenes in all of the new series
• 6:04
  is that fucking tedious moment where he goes up to that pair
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  that are getting married and he's like.
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  Oh, no. Two unimportant people and it's
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  just so it's too obvious. There's no subtlety to it.
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  No, you. No, no, I'm not asking it.
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  I'm not having it, No. Excuse me, you did ask me what
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  my reasons were? I picked that scene out in my
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  blog as one of my favorite scenes in the new series.
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  We are a lot of difference of. We are a lot of different
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  opinion, but I think it's a really unique exchange.
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  And it's something with the doctor saying, you know, and
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  just talking generally about, they met outside a kebab shop
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  and got a taxi home. It feels like the doctors
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  literally stepping into my world and that just makes it so much
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  more real and on board with agonising and obvious and
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  overdone. I don't think it's obvious
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  because it's it's never been done, but it's not.
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  A moment like this in Doctor Who, you do have to remember I
• 7:04
  do find the subtleties of toes and Cole's performance as Ryan
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  Sinclair very touching. So you've got to figure out
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  where I'm coming from here, right?
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  Yeah, totally, totally. What you you see things that
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  aren't there is what you're telling me that scene in the
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  restaurant in? Oh, that five hour scene.
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  I don't care. That is me and that scene,
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  that's the relationship I had with my dad.
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  That's the awkwardness I had when my dad came back into my
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  life and tried to tell me I care about you.
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  I I felt that's precisely how I behaved.
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  But I don't think that makes good TV.
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  Whereas I think this moment is the doctor being sweet and that
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  makes it good TV. Oh, I think it makes that good
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  TV for me. Whereas during this I was just
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  going, oh God, I'm down in the sugar here.
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  The saccharine levels are overblowing.
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  It's too much for me and that and that whole episode is too
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  much for me. It's all over stressed.
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  None of it. None of it feels real.
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  It feels like soap opera. I I think this is.
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  I think this is Doctor Emotion actually getting quite real
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  compared to the melodrama that we usually get.
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  Which is still like in in in like season finales but OK but I
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  mean. Paul Cornell is a writer.
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  I I I wouldn't know enough. It's not like I've never delved
• 8:28
  into the virgin range. So from the comics I've read of
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  him, I've not been the biggest fan of those of of Red Emperor,
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  the Daleks. I think that's pretty good, but
• 8:36
  there's just so much going on. But you probably just flow with
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  it and human nature. It's worth saying that in the
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  writer's Tale, Russell T said that he.
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  And basically rewrote all of it for TV.
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  Rusty Davis would never need to stress things in the way that
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  Paul Corbett and does here. He would be able to tell you
• 8:53
  about somebody's relationship without pointing it out in the
• 8:57
  way they do. But I don't think this in a
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  season of Russell T Davis that's everywhere and stamped all over
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  it. I don't think this stands out as
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  like, oh, this one really isn't Russell T Davis and the others
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  are. It fits into that mould.
• 9:12
  Oh, it does to me, like the bit with Rosen and and Jackie and
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  Mickey at the cafe where she's like, that's how good the doctor
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  is. That's how you do it.
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  That's how you do emotions. Yeah, but that that's a that's
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  like a positive. Like that's a positive drive.
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  We're in this. A dad's dead.
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  You can't, you can't. And she's not going to be
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  positively driven, is she? No.
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  And she does behave in very strange ways throughout.
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  Well, look, we'll get into it when when we go there.
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  But like, do you do you see? What I'm trying to say though,
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  is that I just, I feel as if my strings are being pulled and I I
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  like, I like to just have my strings pulled.
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  I can feel the. Anything else you like?
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  Oh, I love. Oh yeah, you can yank at that
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  every time you like. Sweet Jackie Wood.
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  Oh, no. Actually, Pete Wood, wouldn't
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  it? Pete.
• 10:07
  Pete. There's an implication that
• 10:09
  Pete's up to no good here. But Oh yeah, what the hell is
• 10:14
  that all about? Well.
• 10:15
  It's. That's not your character
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  though, is it? I know, but.
• 10:19
  It's fucking weird. There's an incest joke subplot
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  in this. Oh yeah, but there's a there's
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  an incest joke subplot in the best.
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  Sci-fi film of all time going to say back to the.
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  I think it's bloody weird in that as well.
• 10:33
  Sorry, we should not be gags about incest in Doctor Who and I
• 10:41
  love a bit of sex And what's next?
• 10:43
  Best reality. Oh, actually I thought we might
• 10:45
  have gone there a few times as. Well, yeah.
• 10:46
  Well, John Bishop and that cat, what's his name?
• 10:50
  That Irish cat in gridlock with the woman.
• 10:53
  Well, you know, each to their own.
• 10:57
  But I think I'll tell you what the problem was this this
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  episode was everything I feared. When I heard the show was coming
• 11:03
  back, it was going to be more character focused, more emotion
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  focused. Now I don't think it went here
• 11:09
  very often because I think in stuff like End of the World, the
• 11:13
  emotion is beautifully judged. That sequence where she says
• 11:17
  you're the last of the time and he's holding back the tears and
• 11:19
  it's really delicately done. That's how you do it for.
• 11:23
  Me, but I know, but in an episode where you're dealing
• 11:26
  with. Rosa has never met a dad.
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  And then she goes back and meets him, realises he's not the hero
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  that she thought he was, and then he dies like that's that's
• 11:37
  a lot deeper and more personal, and he's going to be more
• 11:40
  emotional and smutty than just your normal run-of-the-mill run
• 11:44
  around of Doctor Who. Oh, would that automatically be
• 11:46
  smutty? Well, I mean, I said, smutty.
• 11:50
  Because you specifically said, holding back the tears.
• 11:53
  And enter the world where it's in the it's very like.
• 11:57
  Tears pouring out, but I think that's suited here.
• 12:01
  But I like A Christmas Carol. I think the premise is
• 12:04
  fundamentally flawed because I just don't believe for one
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  second the doctor would take her back to the moment of her dad's
• 12:11
  death. Like, why would he ever do that
• 12:14
  as a responsible adult? Yeah, but he's not a response.
• 12:18
  He's not, is he? He's the Doctor, and then he's
• 12:21
  so stupid that he takes her back again.
• 12:25
  Yeah, but he trusts when she did that.
• 12:26
  Trust, Sir. That's why.
• 12:28
  That's why they have that big argument, because he's trusted
• 12:30
  that she wouldn't do anything like it when characters behave
• 12:32
  so stupidly. I don't think this is.
• 12:35
  I don't think it's out of character.
• 12:37
  I think there's. I think OK, I'll give you the I
• 12:39
  think there's a you've got to do a slight bit of, you know, Rose
• 12:44
  runs in front of the old cells to save a dad that's a bit like,
• 12:48
  OK, just going to have to stomach that.
• 12:49
  I'm not sure he was. But then do you know, I think
• 12:51
  some people would. I I've not lost a pair and I I
• 12:55
  if I was in Rosie's situation, I wouldn't be able to say for sure
• 12:59
  that I wouldn't run in and try and do something.
• 13:02
  Especially we're talking. Rosie's a character that's not
• 13:05
  ever had a dad's either and she wants to spend a bit more time
• 13:08
  with him. I have lost a parent and I'm
• 13:11
  telling you now, I'll never ask him to do what she asked him to
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  do here. I would never say take me back
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  to the point where she dies. But yeah, but I think I know
• 13:21
  this is a. Drama This isn't real life.
• 13:23
  No, but I think it is because fundamentally it's because she's
• 13:28
  never met him properly and she was so small that she so she's
• 13:31
  just got this heroic figure in her head and she wants to go
• 13:34
  back and meet her figure. The sad thing about Father's Day
• 13:37
  that over the 40 minutes when she gets to know him is that she
• 13:41
  realises he's not a hero, he's just a dodgy Dell bloke.
• 13:45
  But then by dying and certifying the timeline.
• 13:48
  And he actually becomes a hero. So it's it's playing with all
• 13:51
  that. Yeah, it's obvious, isn't it?
• 13:57
  Well, look, before we go into the episode, because we've
• 13:59
  discussed the law already, but now we'll go into this in more
• 14:01
  depth. God, I just know when I like
• 14:03
  disagreeing with more than. You do, you know, it's always
• 14:06
  such great humour. Well, I didn't even realise
• 14:08
  that. Like I'm this passionate about.
• 14:10
  Episode. So then it when you attack them
• 14:12
  it gets something round up. In it you wait till we get to
• 14:15
  spy ball. No you you'll be in teased by
• 14:18
  the end. You'll never punch me on that
• 14:22
  one. And you have.
• 14:23
  You have made me see Asylum and the Daleks in a in a slightly
• 14:27
  different night. I still don't like it so much,
• 14:28
  but I do appreciate it a bit more now.
• 14:31
  But I think I could. I could definitely like.
• 14:34
  Make you like episodes more because I'm being positive,
• 14:38
  whereas I'm not going to make you hate my fault because all
• 14:41
  I'm going to do is come on and say a new one.
• 14:45
  You're going to come on who? Come on, I bet I warn Dylan.
• 14:55
  Oh Joe, oh, please don't pretend you're above this sort of thing
• 15:00
  before we go into the episode. Yes, I don't.
• 15:05
  Look at me like that. I would just like to say how
• 15:09
  wonderful it is that despite the fact that your podcast came to
• 15:13
  an end, how much podcasting you are still doing.
• 15:17
  And you know you're sort of bouncing around the scene on on
• 15:20
  the time, lash too hot for TV hands with a blood penknife.
• 15:24
  I'm sure there's more that I'm forgetting.
• 15:26
  It's it's great. I love it.
• 15:28
  I love it. I can turn up, talk about dogs
• 15:30
  who and go home again. I was.
• 15:32
  I was sad about losing both of your voices and lost on Gala.
• 15:36
  Yeah, yeah. I think the fact that your voice
• 15:38
  is still out there, it just makes my heart sing.
• 15:42
  I should definitely give Chris a bell and get him, get him on
• 15:45
  maybe one of these or something. Bring him back because he hasn't
• 15:50
  lied Stephen Moffitt too much. Yeah, he doesn't like him too
• 15:54
  much. We're doing a river song.
• 15:56
  Although I think he said to me the other day, he's re watching
• 15:59
  Series 6 and actually re evaluating them a lot.
• 16:01
  In in a new light. I'll forget it then telling the
• 16:04
  bugger off. But no, your voice is still out
• 16:08
  there. It's glorious.
• 16:10
  Keep doing it. I would not want to lose your
• 16:12
  voice in pop. Thank you.
• 16:13
  It's like the difference between hosting a party and going
• 16:16
  through a party and on loads lately.
• 16:19
  It's great, isn't? It yeah, it is great, I went on.
• 16:21
  Dave Rennie's the other day, right.
• 16:22
  I'm deter of the vervoids, right?
• 16:25
  No, it's what you need. That one kettle.
• 16:28
  Some string from the kettle, yeah.
• 16:30
  And we did two hours of terror. The verve odds, right?
• 16:33
  And he was coming at me with all these simulating facts and I
• 16:36
  just kept quoting on a black man and all the dreadful Pippin Jane
• 16:39
  dialogue and being spectacularly naughty.
• 16:42
  It's great. And you scream like Melkin in
• 16:45
  that no. You're about to give it a go
• 16:49
  then. But I can say that I was gonna
• 16:52
  call you, Dave then, Luke, that we are about to find ourselves
• 16:55
  in a web of mayhem and intrigue. Into the black hole of Tartarus.
• 17:00
  Look, you told me to stop that, all right?
• 17:02
  Oh, yes. Well, let's go in, shall we?
• 17:08
  I'm sorry. Let's go into the episode, shall
• 17:10
  we? Oh, into the episode?
• 17:11
  Yeah, OK. You are.
• 17:17
  The episode's halfway through. I better skip back from the
• 17:19
  start. I mean, I'll.
• 17:20
  See You've given up halfway. I do say it's wonderful to have
• 17:25
  you back or continuing in the podcast world, but finally you
• 17:29
  managed to be wrong with spectacular frequency, I have to
• 17:31
  say. Yes, yes, whatever.
• 17:34
  Although I you say this, but I I I actually AM.
• 17:37
  Now every time that the new Doctor Who magazine comes
• 17:40
  through the door and I see the pole, I'm just furiously staring
• 17:43
  at it and just got wrong. And when we got doctors 5 to
• 17:47
  about 10, I was just so angry at why Doctor so boring.
• 17:52
  This was High Father's Day. No, it's where it's expected to
• 17:57
  be. Like midway in series one, I
• 17:58
  think. Oh, I thought it was sixth out
• 18:00
  of there. Bollocks, yes.
• 18:03
  Although doesn't that just sum up the area?
• 18:05
  Oh no, no. The fact that amazing it's 6th.
• 18:09
  I know it sums up that you're a beautifulist.
• 18:11
  Well, I was quite surprised that it is of light wasn't in the
• 18:15
  bottom four of capalities that. And you know, there was like, we
• 18:21
  were right about series season 10 because I know it was quite
• 18:24
  low. Wasn't it between 30 and 20?
• 18:26
  You've got about five or six episodes there.
• 18:27
  It's just, it just survives on a strong start and end, yeah.
• 18:31
  It's true. God, I pause it at the start of
• 18:34
  the episode. It's the picture of a really
• 18:36
  scary picture of Rose's dad. Yeah, smiling at me.
• 18:40
  Peter Allen, Tyler Luke Lloyd Luke.
• 18:45
  Dylan What? OK. 54321 OK, so I want to ask
• 18:56
  you about this. Start and end in, right?
• 18:57
  Because obviously they're different, aren't they?
• 18:59
  Yeah, I I forgot about this loads of times before I properly
• 19:05
  got familiar with the episode. Every time I put Father's Day
• 19:07
  on, I forgot it started, ended like this.
• 19:10
  That's why we zoomed in on Pete's face there, like he
• 19:12
  looked like a scary paedophile for a second.
• 19:15
  Well, how do we know he's not? That is true.
• 19:17
  They are talking about him fucking his daughter in this.
• 19:20
  And there there's the line about him getting caught under the
• 19:23
  coats in a cupboard with a lady. Oh yeah, that's come up all of
• 19:27
  that. Now, look, I do want to say one
• 19:29
  thing about these season one episodes.
• 19:31
  I think they got a bit better as they got along, but bloody hell,
• 19:33
  they look cheap now, don't they? Are they not charming, though?
• 19:36
  They're all their time. Well, the 60s Doctor Who looks
• 19:39
  cheap in his own way. It's not.
• 19:42
  It's not. I think recently I've really
• 19:44
  been into like an early 2000s, sort of.
• 19:46
  Vibe or like late 1932 thousand. You know, like your train spot
• 19:50
  on films and your football factories and stuff.
• 19:52
  I quite like that. Raw, shitty vibe.
• 19:55
  And do you not know? It's like they put they slap the
• 19:58
  sort of filter on it, don't they?
• 19:59
  To try and make it look a bit less like it's done on video,
• 20:03
  but then they they just kind of do these primary coloured gels,
• 20:07
  all the. Time that make it look very,
• 20:08
  yeah. It's pretty, but it doesn't
• 20:11
  really have a naturalism to it, which I think it's going for.
• 20:14
  Yeah, that's probably fair to say.
• 20:17
  So yeah, she's going back. She's going back to 1987 to see
• 20:20
  a jazz. Yeah, bad move on both of their
• 20:24
  parts. Just weird, right?
• 20:25
  I don't object to it. And demons are the Punjab,
• 20:27
  though when she goes back to see her nanny.
• 20:31
  Is that that's not on the day she dies, is it?
• 20:33
  That's just like, which probably makes a bit more sense.
• 20:36
  I mean if I was going to go back and see.
• 20:38
  I saw the day she died. Oh yeah, I know that at the
• 20:41
  beginning. Oh, no, no, it's not her.
• 20:44
  It's oh, yeah, it's it's, it's been, isn't it?
• 20:48
  I quite like how sort of cheap this wedding venue is, because
• 20:51
  you can imagine the Tyler's getting cheap getting married in
• 20:53
  this you know it's Lam Brusco that they're serving up
• 20:57
  afterwards, don't you? I I don't this him forgetting
• 21:03
  her name. I think this is a joke from only
• 21:05
  Phil's nurses, but I'm not too sure about that.
• 21:07
  Yeah, I think Rodney forgets Cassandra's.
• 21:12
  But this is all I I I like this. Just the Doctor and Rose being
• 21:17
  just in our world, in our gritty world.
• 21:20
  Well, yeah, but we've done that already.
• 21:22
  How's that fresh We've done that Aliens of London and Rose and.
• 21:26
  Yeah, but this is 7 weeks of it. It's not.
• 21:29
  It's not like five years of it, is it?
• 21:31
  It's all a fresh vibe at this point in time.
• 21:34
  Do you know what? Do you know what they really
• 21:35
  did? Slap some sort of brownie beige
• 21:38
  filter over this episode, didn't they?
• 21:40
  It is ugly to look at. I think that's another issue of
• 21:42
  mine. I didn't.
• 21:44
  I didn't find it ugly. I just find it like it.
• 21:46
  I think it's sepia tinted, you know?
• 21:53
  I think Sean Dingell is that is, is that.
• 21:56
  That's how you say his name isn't it is brilliant as Pete
• 21:59
  Tyler. Would you agree?
• 22:01
  I would agree. I think he's got a lot of charm,
• 22:03
  yeah. He's very naturalistic.
• 22:06
  Yeah. Jackie Tyler isn't at all.
• 22:09
  She's like a panto villain, but brilliant for.
• 22:12
  It he just creates this likeable, dodgy Del Boy
• 22:16
  character, doesn't he? Whilst seriously like
• 22:20
  simultaneously channeling the energy of every dad there's ever
• 22:23
  been. Especially from that era, I
• 22:26
  think. I think, and I think this is
• 22:28
  essential because I do like then where we go in Rise of the
• 22:33
  Sidemen, Yeah, each of Steel and I love where we go and do this
• 22:37
  day, where Jackie and Pete find each other again.
• 22:40
  Yeah, yeah, that is really nice moment.
• 22:43
  Oh, unfortunately, this is essential.
• 22:45
  Did you see the the Bad Wolf reference then?
• 22:49
  Oh, was it on a poster? It's all, yeah, it's spray well.
• 22:52
  It's sort of marked in on pen on the energized poster.
• 22:54
  They knew how to do arcs back then, didn't.
• 22:56
  They they did? No.
• 22:58
  Enticing references. That was one of the last bad
• 23:02
  wolfs. I spotted that one.
• 23:04
  Yeah, I can't think of many after this in, be honest.
• 23:06
  Is there one in? It's one in empty, Child.
• 23:09
  It's on the bomb that Jack's like shagging on his way down.
• 23:12
  Of course, it's between his legs.
• 23:16
  Oh, they see. Now look, I think Joe Hearn is a
• 23:18
  good director, but the way he cuts away from the obviously
• 23:25
  you're not going to see him get hit by a car.
• 23:28
  But it just. Was very awkwardly directed
• 23:30
  because you don't. Yeah, I know.
• 23:32
  But you could. You know what's happened.
• 23:35
  There's no doubt what's happened.
• 23:37
  You wear the vase. It's.
• 23:38
  Probably they. They didn't know at this point
• 23:40
  how far they could go, did they? Well, I think later on we kill
• 23:43
  people in various spectacular ways and no one gave a shit
• 23:46
  anymore. So there is a plot reason for it
• 23:49
  though. She's saying he can't die on his
• 23:52
  own because she's been told the story that he died on his own.
• 23:56
  That's the whole point that she's gone.
• 23:58
  It's so it's Bad Wolf there again on the poster and.
• 24:00
  I do think these early scenes with the music and how it's
• 24:05
  directed, it does have this weird sort of twilight zone
• 24:07
  atmosphere to it of like something is going horribly
• 24:10
  wrong here. Yeah, there's like a disquiet in
• 24:13
  atmosphere to it. Have you ever been to this road
• 24:16
  in Cardiff? So just round this, just round
• 24:20
  this corner where there stood is actually the cafe that they have
• 24:24
  the chat in and Bad Wolf part of the ways.
• 24:27
  That's where they filmed it. And when I went there I tried to
• 24:29
  get my mate to film me getting run over.
• 24:31
  He was going to jive into me and I was kind of pretend to get run
• 24:35
  over and there was a gang of about 30 lads on this street and
• 24:40
  I thought I can't do it. I can't pretend to.
• 24:43
  Be one like you. I just can't pretend to be one
• 24:46
  over. Take care of yourself.
• 24:47
  I would have done it. Oh, and that park in the
• 24:49
  background is the park from Army of Ghosts.
• 24:52
  Yeah, I think they're all within about half a mile of it.
• 24:54
  It's like the classic series, you know, half a mile of London
• 24:57
  anywhere on the M1. And finally that them pillars.
• 25:02
  That are like round they drive past that in the taxi cab on the
• 25:04
  way to the PMS office in early into London but it's meant to be
• 25:09
  London OK sorry right back I was going down before I would go
• 25:14
  and. Explore more of Cardiff but I'm
• 25:15
  just too scared I'll bump into Marvel R6.
• 25:20
  Only my punch mates. I'll avoid that.
• 25:25
  But Mark does play this game of that's Cardiff.
• 25:28
  That's London. That's Cardiff.
• 25:30
  He's watching the new series. Yeah, I like it.
• 25:34
  Look at him. How the fuck does he have any
• 25:36
  right to be angry with her when he's the one that took her here
• 25:40
  in the first place? He trusted her, which is why
• 25:43
  they have this argument in about 5 they've known.
• 25:44
  Each other about two months. Yeah, But they've been through a
• 25:49
  lot, Joe. They've been through five
• 25:51
  episodes. Yeah, loads happened.
• 25:57
  Adam's beating Gone. This is that bit in a minute in
• 26:01
  it. Where?
• 26:01
  Where she? Goes go back to your bloody
• 26:03
  TARDIS end. Oh yeah, I'll be better off
• 26:06
  without your Luke. I think Eccleston and Piper
• 26:09
  absolutely electrifying in this episode.
• 26:12
  I think this scene plays out like a dreadful episode of
• 26:16
  Corrie. No, I want.
• 26:17
  I want more of this. This is what I feared, this
• 26:21
  scene. I want more of it.
• 26:24
  Of course you do. You love better drama.
• 26:27
  Them too fucking angry at each other and I don't think it's
• 26:30
  overdone. I don't think it's melodramatic.
• 26:32
  He's are. You kidding?
• 26:34
  Me. He's saving.
• 26:35
  And then he storms off. Oh.
• 26:38
  God, oh, I do like this one because he's definitely supposed
• 26:43
  to be that Dell Boy character in his finger in every pie.
• 26:46
  You can trust me on this. Yeah, I love that.
• 26:51
  Actually, my dad was a bit dodgy like this, you know?
• 26:54
  Everyone's dad was a bit dodgy like this.
• 26:56
  I think that's why it's great. My dad was five years in Lewis
• 26:58
  prison. OK, maybe not that much.
• 27:04
  Explains a lot about me, you know?
• 27:06
  Also, like there's a lot of good quotes from this episode.
• 27:09
  One's about to come when he says I'm a stupid ape.
• 27:12
  I would like you to point them out to me please.
• 27:14
  I don't remember a single line from business.
• 27:17
  Right. OK, well three very quotable
• 27:20
  lines. Off the bat is another stupid A.
• 27:23
  Get in the church and don't touch the baby.
• 27:25
  They are iconic. Doctor, he lies.
• 27:28
  Memorable lines? That's just instructions.
• 27:31
  Get in the church and don't touch the baby rose.
• 27:34
  They are iconic. A memorable line is something
• 27:38
  like I'll tell you about a conscience, Miss Smith.
• 27:41
  It's like a stone in your shoe. You can't understand the relief
• 27:45
  when it's gone. Don't.
• 27:46
  You tell me memorable lines when you've just memorized the script
• 27:50
  of every Doctor Who you have to say and can say every Pip and
• 27:55
  Jane line going if you. Give me the key, Joe.
• 28:00
  And this used to mean something given the key back and forth.
• 28:04
  They always used to mean something.
• 28:07
  It is, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 28:08
  And in those first four years, wasn't it?
• 28:10
  Given the key over was. Like, yeah, it's a big moment
• 28:13
  and Martha only gets it about four episodes at the end.
• 28:17
  I don't like any of this. I've got the best.
• 28:21
  I really dislike that it's so. So the inference is he won't
• 28:25
  take anyone anymore, he'll just take the best.
• 28:31
  I don't. I don't.
• 28:31
  I don't mind. I yeah.
• 28:34
  No. Yeah.
• 28:35
  It means you can't make a mistake as well.
• 28:37
  If you make a mistake, you're out, which is basically what's
• 28:39
  happening here. But then Russell T always has
• 28:43
  this You've got to earn your place in the Tardis and you'll
• 28:47
  pay a price for the for the good.
• 28:49
  Do you have to earn your place? And I don't like that.
• 28:52
  But. It used to be, you know, any old
• 28:54
  Dodo and Adric could trip it their way in.
• 28:56
  Exactly And do we want dodo and adjects back in the TARDIS?
• 29:00
  You dare come at Dodo? I'm.
• 29:02
  I'm coming right out of. I'm shielding her.
• 29:07
  Oh. Course you are.
• 29:09
  Let me in. Oh God, That's going to be the
• 29:14
  line for this episode. Now I'm coming at Dodo.
• 29:18
  No wonder she got syphilis and died.
• 29:22
  That says more about you than it does.
• 29:27
  OK, the time travel in this one. Excuse me, incest line.
• 29:31
  Pretty girl like you, she's like, oh God, no, don't.
• 29:35
  He doesn't know. This could have been written by
• 29:38
  Steven Moffett. You know all these pervy.
• 29:40
  References can you only, you can only imagine what it'd be like.
• 29:42
  Give me a shit, mate. Especially in 2005, they'd
• 29:46
  almost kissed, wouldn't they? Or something like that.
• 29:48
  Yeah, I think it would be pushed.
• 29:51
  So sorry, you were saying something very intelligent about
• 29:53
  time travel there. I was going to say, because this
• 29:55
  this is one of them episodes that where it feels like the
• 29:57
  time travel is slightly different to all the other sort
• 30:00
  of Doctor Who Wants. I'd say this and The Angels Take
• 30:03
  Manhattan and The Wedding, The River Song was sort of like the
• 30:06
  three episodes where things feel different.
• 30:08
  Yeah, that's why I hate Father's Day in the Weather's River song
• 30:11
  a lot. Angel Takes Manhattan because it
• 30:12
  feels like there's a logic to it.
• 30:14
  I understand. But it's a it's a logic that is
• 30:16
  only stuck to yeah, in that episode.
• 30:18
  Why does the hardest turn into a box?
• 30:24
  Great question. Why does the Tyler?
• 30:26
  So we'll have to look out for the answer.
• 30:29
  You can't post these mysteries and then not answer them and
• 30:32
  then just go, well, it's all right now.
• 30:34
  I love the image of there not being anything inside the Titus,
• 30:37
  but I think it's one of those where you think I could have
• 30:39
  been. It could have been reserved for
• 30:41
  another episode and really explored because it's sort of
• 30:44
  thrown away here, isn't it? How much classic?
• 30:46
  Who have you watched? All you ever saw when they went
• 30:47
  inside of TARDIS was the inside of a small box.
• 30:49
  When I was younger, this. I really like this.
• 30:52
  But I mean, because you think, Oh my God, like what?
• 30:56
  There's nothing in there. We're supposed to believe that
• 31:01
  the TARDIS is going to be like this forever.
• 31:05
  Yeah. The thing is, I knew from the
• 31:08
  second he was saved, yeah, that the ending of this episode was
• 31:12
  going to be him dying. OK, yeah, I think.
• 31:15
  That's probably a little bit of a problem, isn't it, that that
• 31:18
  is the only way out really. Yeah.
• 31:22
  But then you saw. If they didn't, if, if he
• 31:24
  survived, well, I think we'd be in Charlie Pollard territory
• 31:28
  then wouldn't. We yeah, and Russell T sort of
• 31:31
  flirted with that, didn't he? With Tief and Claw.
• 31:33
  It says in the writer's Tale that he very nearly killed off
• 31:36
  Queen Victoria and Tief and Claw just to, like, fuck with people.
• 31:39
  And that would have been the start of Torchwood.
• 31:41
  Then it would have been an alternate timeline.
• 31:44
  In a world where Victoria. But then he thought it'd be too
• 31:46
  confused and I think nowadays it wouldn't.
• 31:48
  I think back then it probably was a bit.
• 31:50
  Moffett would have done. That, yeah.
• 31:52
  Eddie would have brought her back to life again.
• 31:54
  It's not about Moffett. Oh no, it's fuck.
• 31:56
  OK, I'll call it. OK.
• 32:00
  But yeah, like, because a lot of people say the criticism or why
• 32:04
  aren't the Reapers, you know, always coming about?
• 32:06
  The Reapers should technically have a a billion in every Steven
• 32:09
  Moffett episode goes. Really.
• 32:11
  But. I think it's because there's two
• 32:13
  lots of them that sort of justifies it in my head.
• 32:17
  You know, they're not just changing time, but they've
• 32:18
  changed time in front of themselves and that and the
• 32:21
  Reapers have come out because it's that bad.
• 32:23
  I like your internal logic there.
• 32:25
  Yeah, we're Doctor Heath fans. We have to come up with internal
• 32:29
  logic a lot of the time, yeah. I got to say the I just
• 32:33
  mentioned Charlie Pollard and it is effectively the same idea,
• 32:35
  isn't it somebody that should be dead?
• 32:38
  Is alive and so, and a malevolent force has broken out
• 32:44
  to rise the wound. Yeah, very much you can.
• 32:49
  You can feel the sort of new adventures, you know, stamped on
• 32:53
  it a bit, can't you? That where where that's come
• 32:55
  from I. Really think Rusty Davis was
• 32:57
  looking at that Charlie Pollard storyline?
• 32:58
  Because the whole idea of the consequences of the companion
• 33:03
  not coming home is done with Charlie as well.
• 33:06
  Yeah, that's true. I think, yeah.
• 33:08
  We all said this was all very yeah, Oh my God, how bold.
• 33:11
  A new dawn for Doctor Who. But actually, Gary Russell and
• 33:15
  his cronies over at Big Finish was doing some of this earlier.
• 33:18
  It's a bit different doing it for a couple of Doctor Who fans
• 33:21
  and listening to our audio and doing it for a massive
• 33:25
  television, but they. Played out with the idea first.
• 33:28
  Yeah, yeah. But I mean, it's sci-fi.
• 33:30
  There's like 20 ideas in sci-fi, so they're just repeating over
• 33:34
  and over again. Yeah, one thing I've definitely
• 33:36
  got right is Jackie's hair. Look at that.
• 33:39
  I mean, Jackie just always brings great energy to an
• 33:42
  episode and. I won't deny that for a second.
• 33:44
  I think the best of this episode is all Jackie.
• 33:47
  Yeah, I, I, I yeah. And This is why I don't like
• 33:50
  Jackie on Big Finish. It's not.
• 33:53
  She loses all the heart of the character and she's just the
• 33:55
  council estate caricature, isn't she?
• 33:57
  Well, I just said that on my review the other day.
• 33:59
  I'm baffled because she says in Love Monsters about how she's
• 34:02
  lonely and. That's what it makes you hard.
• 34:06
  Well, she's been in about 500 Big Finish stories now in in
• 34:08
  between seeing Rose. I love it.
• 34:13
  Stupid is when Rose and the Doctor turned up.
• 34:15
  She should go fuck me. I'm exhausted from all those
• 34:17
  events that I've been having. Jackie and Pete having this
• 34:21
  argument now, I think it's great.
• 34:25
  I We all saw our parents having this argument but it's just this
• 34:28
  is the first time Rose has properly seen the mum and dad
• 34:31
  together and she thinks it's all going to be.
• 34:33
  Sweet and love. You know the way you build it up
• 34:35
  in your head. And actually they're just like
• 34:37
  any other sort of bad relationship and just have a big
• 34:41
  argument in the street. The same sort of arguments
• 34:43
  you've seen your own mum and dad have.
• 34:45
  Excuse me, you maybe you might say more about your relationship
• 34:47
  than mine. I don't have rows are this.
• 34:49
  Beyond that, no, I don't. And I wasn't caught on the food
• 34:53
  duffel coats either. But I know you know I've seen
• 34:56
  your TikTok videos of you dancing in your kitchen with
• 34:59
  your other half. They're fabulous.
• 35:03
  Don't let people know they want TikTok so we can have a look.
• 35:11
  I just, yeah, Jackie, just cutting into him for all these
• 35:15
  little projects that he's got. Her delivery of that line.
• 35:19
  I'm drowning in your rubbish. Born failure, that one.
• 35:25
  I I feel like Jackie Tyler. I've.
• 35:28
  I've heard other PIT smarter people than me say this.
• 35:32
  That she does not belong in Doctor Who.
• 35:34
  She's not a Doctor Who character.
• 35:36
  That's. What I mean?
• 35:38
  It means she's not from this world.
• 35:41
  But what is the Doctor Who world?
• 35:43
  It changes it. Would be for all the time,
• 35:44
  sorry. This is.
• 35:45
  A wonderful I'm about to compliment her.
• 35:49
  That's why it works so perfectly.
• 35:51
  That's why it felt so fresh. We've had roses before, I think,
• 35:55
  but we've never. Had a No, we've never had a
• 35:57
  rose. No, no, no.
• 35:59
  But we've had young contemporary girls we had.
• 36:01
  Yeah, yeah. But we hadn't had a We hadn't
• 36:03
  had Rose. The the depth and the character
• 36:06
  of Rose. I'll give you that.
• 36:07
  I don't want to think about McCoy having sex with ice, but
• 36:11
  Jackie, literally the the way she reacts to the doctor and all
• 36:15
  of this is like, oh, I can't be doing with all this.
• 36:17
  You know, Like I want to be with him up the road from the cash
• 36:21
  and carry. But it's so brilliant.
• 36:23
  It's so jarring and so funny. It gives it emotional resonance
• 36:28
  and it just. Feels so real.
• 36:31
  And you and it makes you think of when Rose is in danger, it
• 36:35
  makes you think of the impact on others, which you don't really
• 36:38
  have with quite a lot of companions.
• 36:40
  And it's that other joyous thing as well of she.
• 36:43
  If you knew her in real life, she'd probably be fucking
• 36:45
  obnoxious. You wouldn't want to be around
• 36:47
  her. Yeah, she's been watching her in
• 36:48
  drama. She's wonderful.
• 36:50
  You know, she's rolling everyone up.
• 36:52
  She's the one that basically gets everyone to react.
• 36:54
  All the time. There's so many people like
• 36:56
  that. I mean Colin Bake, like the six
• 36:59
  Doctor. I don't particularly think I'd
• 37:01
  want to be around different in real life.
• 37:03
  You know all of the regulars in the 80s I would want to be.
• 37:10
  Yeah, but she's glorious. No, Jackie Tyler is.
• 37:13
  Glorious. There we go.
• 37:14
  Get in the church. Yeah.
• 37:17
  Do you have trouble with the Reapers?
• 37:18
  It's don't you? It's the Babylon 5 effect with a
• 37:21
  terribly dated CGI that looks like a big cartoon.
• 37:25
  Bad. Oh, a year later.
• 37:27
  The crueler times look way more sophisticated than that.
• 37:30
  How do you think about it all? I'm I'm biased though, because I
• 37:34
  think if you if you watch this at the time and they don't look
• 37:36
  bad and it doesn't look bad at the time, it's very hard to ever
• 37:40
  see it as bad. But you show this to a kid and
• 37:42
  they just start laughing. Other thing.
• 37:44
  Well, I mean, I'm. Especially this bit when his
• 37:46
  dad. Or is it is that yeah, his dad
• 37:48
  gets munched. I don't think the red filter
• 37:52
  thing is very good now. Oh, see, I prefer that I like
• 37:55
  the POV shawls of. Course you do.
• 37:58
  That's so nice. Who that is?
• 38:02
  See, I like that. Like the Reaper, actually.
• 38:04
  You see him actually eating the priest?
• 38:06
  I like the idea of the Reapers, what they're doing, and.
• 38:11
  I I think it's scary that they jump on people and eat them.
• 38:15
  That's scary. That's a great Doctor Who idea.
• 38:17
  But yeah, unfortunately it just I I prefer that that way you see
• 38:20
  the shadow go past the window. Yeah, that's good.
• 38:23
  That's very classic Doctor Who as well.
• 38:26
  I'm a classic Doctor Who fan, all right?
• 38:28
  I think that the monster balance is really good at Siri's one,
• 38:31
  though, because you've got like, humanoid ones and then you've
• 38:35
  got, yeah, you're so very much your classic green and you've
• 38:38
  got your darling. You got flying Dragons, you got
• 38:40
  the jagfest in the roof, you got little kids, there's gas, and
• 38:43
  that's like the monsters are all quite different visually in your
• 38:46
  head. I've waited a long time to say
• 38:49
  this, Jackie Tyler, do as I say. Go and check the doors.
• 38:56
  Yeah, isn't it funny, is it? Yeah, but it's only funny
• 38:59
  because of his delivery. Oh, Duffy, it is funny.
• 39:01
  It's a trouble. It needed to be a better line.
• 39:05
  You're sleeping on like the most quotable dog zoo episode.
• 39:10
  Sorry about. Not OK, not the most quotable,
• 39:13
  but very quotable. We're we're basically in a base
• 39:16
  under siege story now, are we our church under siege?
• 39:19
  Yeah, it's a it's a modern base under siege.
• 39:21
  You know, like I can think of Base Under Siege Story as well.
• 39:23
  We've been trapped in with the most vivid characters going
• 39:26
  midnight and things like this. Look at this bunch, honestly.
• 39:31
  Yeah, but that's what's nice about them.
• 39:32
  They're just, they're just a normal, you know?
• 39:35
  Most people are just normal and a bit bored, aren't they?
• 39:38
  Yeah, don't we point that out to laborious degrees?
• 39:41
  I did. It's not.
• 39:43
  You're wrong. You're so wrong.
• 39:47
  I don't need to know that these boring people are boring.
• 39:50
  I know, they're boring. Yeah, but it's not about them.
• 39:56
  It's about Jackie and Pete and. Baby Mickey We've not even
• 40:00
  spoken about Baby Mickey Smith on the swing.
• 40:03
  What are you shaking your head for?
• 40:05
  Are you shaking your head like we've never had a child, a
• 40:08
  Doctor Who before? Oh, he's terrible.
• 40:11
  Really. He's not Ashley terrible.
• 40:13
  He's not Annabelle terrible, but he's really terrible he.
• 40:16
  Gets like 2 lines. He just runs in the church.
• 40:19
  Moffett should have watched this one, you know, and gone right.
• 40:21
  We ain't going nowhere near kids instead of the crash that he
• 40:25
  opened from Season 5 onwards. One thing I don't like is that
• 40:30
  there's no sort of logic to when the car appears and disappears.
• 40:33
  What's it? All about.
• 40:34
  That I I don't like that and I think if this, I think Russell
• 40:38
  would tighten that up in like Series 2 or Series 3.
• 40:41
  I think the idea is, is it's like time.
• 40:44
  Yeah. It's like a pane of glass.
• 40:46
  And what's happened is because he's survived, it's it's falling
• 40:49
  on the fly and shattered and we're.
• 40:51
  Very Army of Ghosts. Well, we're just seeing all
• 40:53
  these sort of bits and pieces of weird things.
• 40:56
  I think that's the idea. But one, I don't think is weird
• 40:59
  enough, and two, I don't think that's stressed enough.
• 41:03
  So I think just to me it just seems like lots of random things
• 41:05
  are happening and then it ends. From the driver's point of view,
• 41:09
  is he just driving and doing this for half an hour?
• 41:13
  Do you know what I mean? Like I thought.
• 41:17
  Because they took the car appears and reappears in
• 41:19
  different places or. Go as far as to say, it's very
• 41:22
  irresponsible actually, that they make Pete go in front of
• 41:24
  that thing because that man is going to suffer for the rest of
• 41:27
  his life knowing that he's murdered somebody.
• 41:29
  Yeah, but he did anyway. So they could have saved Pete
• 41:35
  and prevented him having a terrible life.
• 41:36
  I mean, they're very naughty time travellers.
• 41:40
  Well, Rose could have saved Pete.
• 41:42
  Well, the doctor could have saved Pete, but then she touches
• 41:45
  the baby. Oh yeah, stupid Act number 56.
• 41:51
  But you buy it because it's going to touch the baby.
• 41:54
  He could buy it clearer. Well, well, you forgot it.
• 42:00
  You forgot it was a line. He just reflected me.
• 42:04
  And the direction of that bit there, like, takes forever, you
• 42:08
  know, I think because you're supposed to be going.
• 42:09
  No, don't do it. Here we go.
• 42:12
  This is such this is such an underrated undervalued scene
• 42:18
  scene in. New These are just two normal
• 42:20
  people, And then the Doctor just gives this lovely speech about
• 42:26
  why they're important. And how?
• 42:28
  The most important thing is just make a connection.
• 42:31
  Two in the morning, getting a taxi home.
• 42:33
  I love it. I absolutely love it.
• 42:36
  I know this. I think this is exquisite
• 42:40
  characterization for the Doctor. You could probably do this scene
• 42:45
  but tone it down a lot and make it more accessible for somebody
• 42:49
  like me. I got it all.
• 42:52
  I don't actually like understand how you find it so elevated.
• 42:58
  Because like I just it is it is Paul Cornell just going all the
• 43:03
  the wonderful things in the universe just but just through
• 43:06
  these two and he did it all the time in the new event.
• 43:08
  This is this is the beauty of the small details of the
• 43:11
  universe. But Doctor Who does that all the
• 43:13
  time. I'm sure it does, though.
• 43:16
  I know the new series does it a lot.
• 43:17
  That's classic series. Didn't I like classic series?
• 43:20
  You've got the scene in The Power of Three where Matt
• 43:23
  Smith's talking about going to one corner of the universe,
• 43:26
  which is 1 core of a star system, which is.
• 43:28
  Wonka. And it keeps going there, yeah,
• 43:30
  I think. That's so either, really.
• 43:34
  I think, I think it's still fair, but I think this one is
• 43:37
  nicer because it is like the Doctor standing in, you know,
• 43:42
  like it gives you an image of the Doctor being there on a
• 43:46
  night out. Like I.
• 43:48
  And I think that's got an alien who could never live like us,
• 43:51
  telling us that our lost, meandering little lives or.
• 43:56
  Are very admirable. I think it's a really lovely.
• 43:59
  I'm wondering if this is a classic New Divide thing, you
• 44:02
  know, because you just never would have had a scene like that
• 44:05
  in the classic series, and you never would have been examining
• 44:08
  the beauty of the universe like that in the classic series.
• 44:10
  You'd just be having sort of a rollicking adventure.
• 44:13
  Yeah, I think, I think maybe a lot of our like that, a lot of
• 44:17
  our clashes are because of that. Classic news standpoint.
• 44:22
  Not saying that you don't like I.
• 44:23
  Like the I like the chimney stump, and a lot of that is very
• 44:26
  classic. Who Again, the sex is gone, you
• 44:29
  know? But then I love RTD, so I don't
• 44:35
  know if that holds way. But ERA is my favorite era of
• 44:39
  Doctor Who. It, but I mean, RTD says to
• 44:43
  himself, like, don't put yourself in a bio.
• 44:46
  You just, you know, you just like what you like.
• 44:49
  Yeah. And I don't like that scene.
• 44:51
  But I do think that when we boil down to these and asylum of
• 44:54
  Daleks and stuff, it is some sort of new old divide really.
• 44:59
  But I I, I I buy that over to a point.
• 45:02
  But then there are lots of exceptions.
• 45:05
  Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah.
• 45:08
  And it'll be the same with me the other way around, Yeah, you
• 45:11
  and I both said. We're both gloriously
• 45:13
  contradictory. Sometimes within the same
• 45:15
  sentence, and that's wonderful. But that's what Doctor Who does,
• 45:19
  Yeah, that's what. That's what Doctor Who is.
• 45:21
  It's gloriously contradictory, the sort of things that used to
• 45:25
  angry. When you're a bit younger, you
• 45:27
  just realise there's just no point.
• 45:29
  This show never makes any sense. Just try and enjoy it.
• 45:33
  Just try and enjoy it. And you know I don't enjoy this.
• 45:38
  You don't enjoy Spy Fault, and that's all right.
• 45:41
  You can see why this would be boring to a child.
• 45:44
  I know you're an adult. I'm wondering, don't you dare
• 45:49
  suggest that I'm an adult? I know how old you are.
• 45:51
  Listen to the finished Big Podcast I.
• 45:54
  Know and you suggested I was 10 years older or something?
• 45:56
  One year older? It's a bit of a joke, yeah, but
• 46:00
  if you're like a kid, this is not outlandish or exciting.
• 46:03
  As you said, it's pretty like, officially dreary.
• 46:06
  The monsters are quite hidden for the most part.
• 46:10
  And like, as a kid, you just sat there going, it's just some
• 46:13
  families and friends chatting in a church.
• 46:15
  A bit like when you go to your granddad's and you're 10 years
• 46:17
  old and everyone just sort of chats away and you just sat
• 46:20
  there being a bit bored. That's what this was when I was
• 46:22
  a kid. You imagine anything worse for a
• 46:24
  5 year old than the bit where she's like you're my daddy?
• 46:29
  No, you just want them to be running, don't you?
• 46:31
  You know you just want them to be running, or you want to be
• 46:34
  scared. But as an adult, I think.
• 46:38
  I want to, I don't want to be accused of that person that
• 46:40
  doesn't like emotion in Doctor Who because I just think in RT
• 46:43
  DS era it was so funny. I didn't think I wasn't saying
• 46:46
  that at all, but there are certain it seems to be certain
• 46:49
  episodes where it pushes it in an extreme way.
• 46:53
  Like Amy Will we get divorced? Or here, where Rosa's dad's
• 46:57
  died. Yeah, I'm.
• 46:59
  I'm totally contradictory again, because then you know the bit
• 47:01
  where wherever songs go, no go mum and be with dad, You know
• 47:06
  all that stuff together or not at all for that shit.
• 47:16
  I think it's obviously a huge Muffet fan, but I think this is
• 47:19
  so much better done than any if like angels take Manhattan,
• 47:23
  Christ alive. OK, why does this work for you
• 47:26
  so? Well then, the the the emotion
• 47:28
  of this. Yeah, I think I was just saying
• 47:30
  like it was born as a kid because everyone's just sat
• 47:33
  around talking about emotions and stuff.
• 47:35
  But I think as an adult, it probably stands out for that
• 47:38
  reason that it's like a stripped back version of Doctor A, where
• 47:43
  it's just a raw, emotional story about the death of a loved one.
• 47:46
  I think as well, it just feels real.
• 47:49
  You're saying you're saying like it feels like EastEnders.
• 47:51
  I think that's part of why I like it.
• 47:54
  They said it feels really real. And I think as time goes on and
• 47:58
  as I say, I'm lucky enough to not really have lost anyone, I
• 48:02
  don't know what I'll feel about this episode when I do or if I
• 48:06
  do, because yeah, like I it might be a really hard watch and
• 48:12
  I might not watch it, you know? Genuinely, there are pieces of
• 48:15
  television which fundamentally changed before I lost my mom and
• 48:20
  after So I Buffy's the body. And there's an episode of Star
• 48:24
  Trek where Jake Cisco loses his dad and it deals with the grief
• 48:28
  in such a profound way. And beforehand I was like, oh,
• 48:31
  that was a sweet episode, Like that was really sad.
• 48:33
  Now I'm just in tears watching those two because it brings back
• 48:37
  everything and this doesn't move me in the same way.
• 48:40
  But that's probably because there's, you know, time
• 48:43
  travelling Dragons circling the church at the same.
• 48:45
  Time, you know? Yeah.
• 48:47
  But I mean that's, that doesn't really come into it for me.
• 48:49
  That's sort of. It's not really about the
• 48:51
  Reapers, is it? They're just a means to an end.
• 48:54
  But what? What?
• 48:56
  Parts of this like, really move you.
• 49:00
  All, I think it was a saying like the central story of she
• 49:04
  wants to meet a dad, she thinks he's going to be this amazing
• 49:07
  guy and actually he's a bit of a dodgy, you know, like dealer
• 49:10
  could even be cheating on Jackie or has cheated on Jackie and.
• 49:16
  I mean I think that the the heart the hardest scene in this
• 49:19
  between them two is the one where she's telling him about
• 49:24
  how she he it might could be that I think it might be this
• 49:26
  one where she tells him how he used to read a bedtime stories
• 49:30
  and he used to go for picnics every every week and he just
• 49:34
  turns around and says that's not me.
• 49:36
  He knows it's not him because that's just not he knows that
• 49:39
  would never be him. I mean, that's when he realized
• 49:41
  she's lying and he's probably going to have to die.
• 49:43
  And this the day he dies and then he does the.
• 49:46
  As I say at the beginning, he does the heroic thing of he
• 49:49
  becomes a hero, even though like she, she now knows he isn't.
• 49:54
  Whereas at the beginning of the story, he isn't a hero, but she
• 49:58
  thinks he is. I can.
• 50:01
  I can understand that. And then that, that along with
• 50:05
  that speech that you hate, that I love, I there's just a real
• 50:09
  human connection here for me, I think.
• 50:12
  This is what I know. Like, usually the one you're
• 50:15
  drunk, you put on the episodes, they'll make you laugh or
• 50:17
  whatever. Quite a lot of time.
• 50:18
  I'll put this one on just for an emotional blast.
• 50:22
  I don't what's on? For that, whenever I want to
• 50:25
  cry, I'll put on that farewell Sarah Jane Smith, that little
• 50:29
  one he did during the lockdown. Oh yeah.
• 50:31
  I guess me going every time. Yeah.
• 50:33
  Oh do you know you know the on one of the Blu-ray sets that JNT
• 50:37
  documentary. Oh boy Oh my goodness.
• 50:41
  When when they're talking, Peter Davis is talking about the last
• 50:44
  time they spoke to him he was on the phone and they didn't.
• 50:47
  You know he didn't sound quite well and he hadn't really seen
• 50:49
  anyone and and he died just before Doctor Who came back and
• 50:53
  how much would have loved it I was sitting.
• 50:55
  Agony. That goes for, say, agony.
• 50:58
  And again, I like some people don't like this, but it really
• 51:01
  moves me to tears when Tom Baker says about Elizabeth Slade.
• 51:04
  Oh, yeah. No.
• 51:05
  Yeah. How lucky were we, you know?
• 51:08
  But if I'm sat on my own, I'll I'll cry this.
• 51:12
  I'm wondering as well, because I think sometimes real life can
• 51:16
  leap into an episode you're watching and affect how you
• 51:20
  respond to it. I had a really terrible
• 51:23
  relationship with my father. He was a just a horrible,
• 51:27
  emotionally close abusive man and I was disillusioned in the
• 51:33
  way that Rose is disillusioned in this.
• 51:36
  But I'm I never had that moment with my dad where he got to be a
• 51:41
  good guy. And so I'm wondering if there is
• 51:45
  just something in the back of my head there, anything generally
• 51:48
  when it's about dads, I I'm a bit cold about them and I think
• 51:52
  I wonder. I wonder if that's just because
• 51:53
  of my dads. Yeah.
• 51:55
  Oh, I think like, I don't know. I spoke to people about like
• 52:00
  lads about that lad and dad relationship and a lot of people
• 52:04
  seem to have a not a a normal relationship with the dads.
• 52:11
  And I think, yeah, there's some sort.
• 52:13
  This is slightly different because dads and daughters have
• 52:16
  a slightly different bond. But I do think there's that
• 52:20
  thing that if you knew. You had your last day of your
• 52:23
  dad, especially your dad had his last day with you.
• 52:26
  What he'd actually say and open up to, I think that feeds into
• 52:30
  it a lot. I'm just.
• 52:34
  I'm just wondering if that's where my vitriol comes from,
• 52:37
  really. Not Father's Day, but my father.
• 52:41
  Yeah, I mean, I I knew this question.
• 52:44
  Like, I knew this would come up, obviously covering Father's Day.
• 52:46
  What is it that you really like about it?
• 52:48
  I mean, it's in my top ten episodes.
• 52:51
  And I I can't. I can't really put my finger on
• 52:53
  it too much I. Think you can't though.
• 52:55
  Sometimes you can't. Like I can't.
• 52:57
  Say your initial reaction to it. Oh no, it's not that.
• 52:59
  Because you didn't like it. But sometimes it's that, isn't
• 53:01
  it? When you don't like something,
• 53:02
  you go back and you like, it loads and then it's suddenly
• 53:04
  like, whoa, I didn't like this first time around and.
• 53:07
  I did. AI did a commentary on Kinder
• 53:10
  yesterday, right? I hated that as a kid.
• 53:12
  I think he's an absolute banger now.
• 53:14
  Yeah, that's another one. It's another one I think kinder
• 53:17
  that. It's There's so much more in it
• 53:20
  for adults than there is for. Oh, women, we talked about in
• 53:23
  some depth. And yeah, and you know what?
• 53:25
  There are serious talking points.
• 53:26
  And as we've proven for for good or for bad, there's a lot to say
• 53:32
  about this episode. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 53:36
  And yeah, I mean, I it's I've just got a roster of.
• 53:42
  Episodes that I put on when I'm drunk, and they're pretty much
• 53:44
  all the ones I've done, perhaps that it will, generally.
• 53:47
  Bring a pack of 10 love of monsters.
• 53:50
  Yeah, and this. And I know the other two are
• 53:52
  like saying that love of monsters has got a lot of grief
• 53:55
  and loss and hard. It just hides behind this, you
• 53:59
  know? It's all it's all a silly little
• 54:02
  throwaway bit of fun. But to me the way that holds
• 54:05
  back and then it has a bit where he is basically a child again
• 54:09
  and he says about his mum. That really moves me.
• 54:12
  Holds back. It's it's got favorite slab
• 54:15
  girlfriend. You know what I know.
• 54:18
  I do know what you're saying. Yeah.
• 54:20
  It's done. It's done.
• 54:21
  A little more. You had to bring that up, didn't
• 54:24
  you? It's done more subtly, Yeah,
• 54:27
  definitely. They started selling nursery
• 54:30
  lapavian slabs in the sex shops. Where?
• 54:34
  Where? Please send me one.
• 54:36
  I've got you on for Christmas. Yay, you're Missus Blight.
• 54:41
  What's this? Yeah.
• 54:43
  Where do we begin? The The worst thing is she knows
• 54:45
  what that is, of course. She's seen that one.
• 54:48
  Of course. So she's she's seen that one a
• 54:50
  few times. Has she watched all the new who
• 54:52
  then? Most of it.
• 54:54
  She's definitely seen all of Russell and Matt Smith.
• 54:56
  What does she think of this one? Oh, I can't remember.
• 55:00
  This is the sort of what she likes, the emotion he wants.
• 55:02
  So this will be one that she sort of likes.
• 55:04
  I'll be I should put this one on again, in front of her,
• 55:06
  actually. It's not too embarrassing, is
• 55:09
  it? You know.
• 55:10
  We're heading up to that bit now where Murray Gold's going, all
• 55:14
  that bloody emotion. We've not touched on the music,
• 55:16
  but the music in Series 1 generally is gorgeous and the
• 55:20
  music in this really hits me in the field, so I'm sorry, but it
• 55:23
  does OK. For me again though, I can just
• 55:28
  feel the puppeteer pulling my strings and I just, I I don't
• 55:32
  like that. I like things to sneak up on me,
• 55:34
  you said. You said, yeah, I remember you
• 55:36
  saying that about Moffett, about everybody did Impossible
• 55:38
  Astronaut. What you were saying, like you
• 55:39
  don't like it because you could sort of feel the cogs being all
• 55:44
  the things being put in place. But, and I know sort of one of
• 55:47
  the one of the best bits of storytelling.
• 55:51
  Or key skills of storytelling is being able to hide what you're
• 55:55
  doing well. But.
• 55:57
  I do wonder if sometimes I've just dissected television so
• 56:00
  much now that when television surprises me, when an emotion
• 56:04
  sneaks up on me, that's when it really gets me.
• 56:07
  Whereas here I just know they're trying to make me cry throughout
• 56:10
  the entire. OK, Yeah, I do.
• 56:12
  So I understand that. Yeah.
• 56:14
  And but for me, like knowing at the beginning of the episode
• 56:18
  that he's going to sacrifice himself at the end.
• 56:21
  That it's not really about that, and it's not about the Reapers.
• 56:24
  It is just about Rose actually meeting that I didn't have on
• 56:27
  that one final day with him. I will, I will say 1 positive
• 56:31
  thing about this episode and that is I think Billie Piper is
• 56:35
  pretty extraordinary. All of.
• 56:37
  Them. Like she always is in Doctor
• 56:40
  Who, regardless of what season. Because I know some people don't
• 56:43
  write her into. I think she's always incredible
• 56:45
  and I don't think this was ever this sort of rawness.
• 56:48
  I don't think we ever thought we'd see anything like this in
• 56:52
  Doctor Who. No.
• 56:54
  No. And you don't, you know, and it
• 56:56
  probably is, you know, you don't see it again, but it probably
• 56:59
  is, because it's a bit boring for kids.
• 57:00
  But. Do see it again but in doomsday.
• 57:05
  You know, tears and that. But it's it's it's like 10
• 57:08
  minutes at the end. You've just seen Daleks and
• 57:10
  sidemen and all this other stuff as well, you know, to keep you
• 57:13
  interested. Yeah, I mean, to the people, you
• 57:17
  think that, like Rose or Billy Piper gets worse?
• 57:21
  I mean, they're just wrong. Were they not around at the
• 57:23
  time? She was.
• 57:24
  She was almost bigger than the Doctor.
• 57:27
  Or like she pretty much was bigger than the Doctor.
• 57:30
  Oh, it was her journey. Yeah, yeah.
• 57:32
  It wasn't when Eccleston went. I knew the show would go on when
• 57:37
  I was like, have we got a few about Jackie and Mickey and and
• 57:42
  Rose? Not knowing much about Doctor
• 57:44
  Who at the time, when I watched doomsday I was in flood to
• 57:47
  tears. I didn't really know anything
• 57:49
  about anything and I was in flood to tears.
• 57:52
  Can I can I very quickly just tell you an example of a moment
• 57:55
  where emotions sneaked up on me? Just as an example of what I'm
• 57:58
  talking about. So I almost completely wrote off
• 58:01
  New Earth as a mostly embarrassing pantomime.
• 58:06
  Yeah. And I was just like, Oh yeah,
• 58:09
  this just ain't for me. The tone of it's not for me.
• 58:11
  It's not really very funny. It's solved too quickly,
• 58:14
  etcetera, etcetera. And that last scene where Chip
• 58:18
  or Cassandra meets Cassandra and says, you know, you are so
• 58:22
  beautiful. And I literally tears came to my
• 58:25
  eyes straight away. Because I just wasn't expecting
• 58:28
  it in that episode. That's the sort of thing I'm
• 58:31
  talking about. It's funny though, because I
• 58:32
  don't buy that suit. Of course you didn't.
• 58:38
  And that's what makes us all unique.
• 58:43
  A very recent example of my emotion.
• 58:45
  A snake snuck up on me. Watching It's a sin and I know
• 58:49
  it's a sin is like fucking emotionally draining from 10
• 58:53
  minutes in till so far. I'm temp for that to the new
• 58:56
  series. We're in trouble.
• 58:57
  I know, but it's all it's the smallest detail.
• 59:02
  It's just that bit in episode 4 where Ali Alexander's in the car
• 59:06
  with that guy from back home and then he get.
• 59:10
  And he's talking about how he's never going to be an actor
• 59:11
  because he knows he's got AIDS. And then he steps outside the
• 59:14
  car and he just does this little dance in the headlights of the
• 59:17
  car. Oh my God, that big gets it.
• 59:20
  It comes out of nowhere. But that just makes me cry and
• 59:23
  cry and cry because it's like what should have been.
• 59:26
  It's him in the spotlight. He does.
• 59:29
  He does. The rug pull shocks as well.
• 59:32
  Like they're stabbing you in the heart.
• 59:34
  And I don't mean literally like Linda with a wise death and
• 59:38
  stuff like that. Oh no, please don't.
• 59:42
  Please. But there's also that one, and I
• 59:44
  won't. I won't say it because it's a
• 59:46
  spoiler, but the one in years and years?
• 59:48
  At the time, I was fucking shocked.
• 59:52
  Or the bit in it's a scene where she says, oh, he died yesterday.
• 1:00:00
  And we have a bit of that. In in the new series plays.
• 1:00:02
  Because I think it's coming, yeah.
• 1:00:05
  And you know, this is playing in the same ballpark.
• 1:00:07
  I don't think it's quite as sharp as that.
• 1:00:10
  It's not sharp, no, But I think given it, it's due for the time
• 1:00:14
  and stuff. I think it's beautiful.
• 1:00:17
  So my biggest question is why? I like don't like this, but I
• 1:00:20
  like human age so much because it is doing some of the same
• 1:00:23
  things. Yeah.
• 1:00:26
  Human age has got more. It's more Doctor Who and it's
• 1:00:29
  got more going on. Human age has got great
• 1:00:31
  feelings. It feels more like a classic.
• 1:00:33
  Doctor and it's yeah. And it's got monsters.
• 1:00:36
  And I like historical setting, a big sort of science fiction idea
• 1:00:41
  with him turning human. I always think it's really weird
• 1:00:45
  at the end of series three that David Tennant's well, the know
• 1:00:47
  that the Doctor's just not in it because he's not really in human
• 1:00:50
  nature family, but he's not really in Blink.
• 1:00:53
  And at the end of last the time though it's just old or that
• 1:00:56
  dobby. So like, I always feel like he
• 1:00:59
  just goes missing for the end. Of the season you know fruitless
• 1:01:01
  about him, and Fruit and Rajaman are true then.
• 1:01:05
  Come on, let's. It's him or me.
• 1:01:08
  So Rusty Davis went right. He's off keeping you.
• 1:01:12
  And wasn't she marvellous with 15 satellites?
• 1:01:19
  When the master's face just drops, Yeah, so indeed.
• 1:01:21
  Just take the end. We missed our saving our dad.
• 1:01:25
  And everything. Yeah, and oh isn't it?
• 1:01:28
  But isn't that whole episode worth it for that being part in
• 1:01:32
  other ways where she's trying to convince Jackie why she needs to
• 1:01:35
  go back and save the Doctor, and she says that she met Dad.
• 1:01:39
  That's how you do it. That's how good the Doctor is.
• 1:01:43
  Oh, I love that scene. Yeah, that is incredible.
• 1:01:46
  In fact, you're right. It is worth sitting through this
• 1:01:49
  interminable hour just for that one scene.
• 1:01:52
  That is because that's not just a word on a poster that is so
• 1:01:57
  forward thinking for one conversation that's going to be
• 1:02:01
  really integral to both characters and the finale.
• 1:02:05
  That's that's RTD. He's incredible.
• 1:02:09
  Yeah. Well, I mean, look at the long
• 1:02:11
  game, which is effectively a 45 minute trailer.
• 1:02:14
  For the finale, you know, but not as new IT, and he even
• 1:02:18
  called it the long game. I everyone, I think everyone
• 1:02:22
  sort of feels a bit sorry for the long game because everyone
• 1:02:24
  knows it's fine, but it's it's always going to come bottom of
• 1:02:27
  that knife doctor pole. But it's just because of how
• 1:02:30
  strong this came bottom for me. Yeah, for you.
• 1:02:36
  Well, look. We're in the interesting
• 1:02:38
  position here of having. The I bet you like the unquiet.
• 1:02:40
  The the I bet you that's top of your list.
• 1:02:42
  No, it's nowhere near the top. OK, I I think it's one of Mark
• 1:02:47
  Gates's best, but it's nowhere near the.
• 1:02:49
  Top Doesn't that say it all? Excuse me, when when the
• 1:02:53
  competition is the idiots Lantern and Sleep the more and
• 1:02:57
  robot of Sherwood. Well, idiots Lance and Crimson
• 1:03:01
  are They're better that. Is that it?
• 1:03:07
  More. It's not better than Empress of
• 1:03:11
  Mars. That is better, but only a bit
• 1:03:14
  Cold War. Oh, so boring.
• 1:03:19
  Not good. Oh, quite like victory of the
• 1:03:21
  Dalek stone. Gay.
• 1:03:23
  You should have been a shoo in for Doctor Who.
• 1:03:25
  What happened? Yeah, I know what did happen.
• 1:03:30
  But no, we do need to choose three things each to praise
• 1:03:35
  Father's Day. Yes, you do, Thinking from the
• 1:03:38
  entire episode, One Earth I can conjure up, but why don't you
• 1:03:41
  guys? You must know, right?
• 1:03:42
  Come on, you must know. Deep down, that's not that bad.
• 1:03:46
  And it's not a hard watch either, surely I've I've I find
• 1:03:52
  it unenjoyable that. Is mad.
• 1:03:58
  We're different people. That's, I know, with different
• 1:04:02
  experience and tastes. Of course, But I I I can
• 1:04:07
  understand why people like it. I don't, but I can.
• 1:04:10
  But that's it. I can understand why.
• 1:04:13
  You could understand that people like it.
• 1:04:14
  I can't understand why you don't like.
• 1:04:16
  Well, I know what you've said. I know what you've said.
• 1:04:19
  Do you understand why I like Spyful?
• 1:04:22
  No, boy. There you go.
• 1:04:24
  You're in the same boat. That's for another day.
• 1:04:28
  Well, let's do our three. Let's agree to differ and do our
• 1:04:32
  3:00. Oh, wait, one final thing, just
• 1:04:35
  to tie it back to the beginning. Have you ever been?
• 1:04:37
  I know you haven't been to Cardiff.
• 1:04:38
  I was going to say if you've been to the church, but no,
• 1:04:41
  that's that's in in Cardiff as well.
• 1:04:44
  I got my mate to film a video of me running out the church.
• 1:04:48
  No, sorry. Running into the church.
• 1:04:50
  Shout and get in the church. And and then we got back from
• 1:04:53
  Cardiff and he hadn't pressed record for about 5 hours.
• 1:04:57
  But I was not happy. How old were you at this point?
• 1:05:03
  It was only a couple of years. Ago too far.
• 1:05:08
  We're all perpetual children, you know.
• 1:05:10
  Yes, we are. Mind you saying that.
• 1:05:14
  You know, I, Mark and I went to Cambridge last week, right?
• 1:05:19
  And we went punting. And he was, he started off
• 1:05:22
  punting and I punted. Second.
• 1:05:23
  I was a pretty good punter. He was terrible.
• 1:05:26
  And it's the only time I've ever seen real fear across his face,
• 1:05:29
  because he's standing on this boat and there's all these other
• 1:05:32
  boats around us, there's lots of people around.
• 1:05:34
  So if he falls in, it's going to be very embarrassing and he's
• 1:05:37
  trying to. But all he's successfully doing
• 1:05:40
  is going around in circles in the same bit of river and oh,
• 1:05:45
  look at your face, you feel so sorry for him right now.
• 1:05:50
  And I was trying to. I said, come on, I'm going to
• 1:05:53
  film you now. Say.
• 1:05:54
  Welcome to finish big. And he's like, I'm busy.
• 1:06:00
  Anyway, I tried and he did. Well, I didn't press record.
• 1:06:02
  It's exactly the same thing. Yeah, yeah, it looks fun that
• 1:06:07
  what what what is the quote? Something about Newton's law of
• 1:06:11
  reaction. Oh, I don't know.
• 1:06:14
  What is it? I do love the spring or the
• 1:06:16
  leaves, the colours. I thought you said we're coming
• 1:06:19
  here for May week, May weeks in June?
• 1:06:22
  Oh, I do like the autumn, all the leaves, the colours.
• 1:06:26
  And then he says. She says Newton invented
• 1:06:29
  punting. Yes, and he goes.
• 1:06:31
  Oh yes, There was no limit to Isaac's junius.
• 1:06:36
  That's incredible. That is incredible.
• 1:06:38
  You can just do. That oh, name a story.
• 1:06:41
  Go. On right well name in our story,
• 1:06:45
  Father's Day. So why don't?
• 1:06:47
  You popping up anything from that?
• 1:06:48
  Get in the church. But you named you named one,
• 1:06:51
  didn't you, Jordan? You said Billy Piper, Yes.
• 1:06:56
  Oh, no. Which one?
• 1:06:57
  What? What's it?
• 1:06:58
  Jackie says when she gets out of the car.
• 1:06:59
  That's pretty funny lines. I like it when he forgets her
• 1:07:08
  name, but she just goes oh never mind.
• 1:07:11
  Born failure, that one. That's a good light there.
• 1:07:15
  You go well now, the one you quoted before it is a right mess
• 1:07:21
  or something like that. We love Jackie.
• 1:07:25
  I'll start. I think this is a genuinely
• 1:07:28
  really beautiful, I think a Doctor Who has no right to be
• 1:07:35
  this real, and I think that it it coming into our world like.
• 1:07:42
  The Doctor talking about people meeting on street corners and
• 1:07:46
  how that's beautiful and not and not just like people lost and we
• 1:07:51
  all sort of have points where we don't know what we're doing with
• 1:07:53
  our lives And the Doctor saying that's admirable and almost he
• 1:07:56
  wants a life like that, It's really beautiful.
• 1:07:59
  I've sort of cross crossed into a different point there.
• 1:08:01
  So yeah, I'll just go with that speech is one of no one talks
• 1:08:05
  about it, and I think it's one of the nicest and best Doctor
• 1:08:08
  Who speeches in the new series. That's my one add it in this.
• 1:08:14
  Yeah. Well, we've talked about it.
• 1:08:15
  But yeah, go on, give us one. Don't you throw your eyes at me
• 1:08:19
  because I've got a different opinion.
• 1:08:20
  Do you know I've got a one star review once and it was called
• 1:08:25
  that Not Not Hamster. It was a Nimon and we were told
• 1:08:28
  that we were a toxic podcast because we invite guests on and
• 1:08:31
  then we're rude to them. Well, to whoever that person
• 1:08:34
  was, you better. Listen to this.
• 1:08:37
  Maybe it was me coming back to get revenge.
• 1:08:41
  So I think his name was Muke Laloy.
• 1:08:44
  Muke lillen Laloy. So my first thing is going to be
• 1:08:49
  Rusty Davis, because I think he made such a savvy move when he
• 1:08:55
  brought back the show to Jetson. A lot of the heavy science
• 1:08:59
  fiction and to bring in a lot of naturalism and real characters
• 1:09:05
  and to really ground the show initially to to grab that
• 1:09:10
  audience in. And I think this was one of the
• 1:09:15
  stepping stones of doing that. And it's the sort of thing we
• 1:09:18
  never would have had before. And I don't like it.
• 1:09:21
  I don't enjoy watching it, but I completely understand why it's
• 1:09:25
  here. It's it is like a Back to the
• 1:09:28
  Future meets EastEnders. You know, it's got touch points
• 1:09:33
  that people can recognize and sort of buy into things that are
• 1:09:37
  popular because he's done a lot of that this year.
• 1:09:40
  He does it in Bad Wolf. He takes all those popular shows
• 1:09:43
  and just drags them all into Doctor Who and people can go,
• 1:09:46
  oh, that's the weakest thing. Amazing.
• 1:09:48
  Oh, this is a bit like you send, it's a bit like Back to the
• 1:09:50
  Future. It's a bit like this, bit like
• 1:09:51
  that. I think it was a really savvy
• 1:09:53
  move. So yeah, I think it's very bold
• 1:09:57
  to be doing this in this new era of Doctor Who, because it's not
• 1:10:02
  at all what people were really expecting.
• 1:10:05
  There you go, I I I don't. I didn't know what people were
• 1:10:08
  expecting because I wasn't really here then.
• 1:10:11
  I will. I mean, what were people
• 1:10:13
  expecting? Well, no, I wasn't.
• 1:10:16
  I I got into it with teeth and claw.
• 1:10:19
  So this was already out. And I never really knew about
• 1:10:21
  Doctor Who before. Teeth and claw.
• 1:10:22
  So this was hey, you ain't that bloody young Jesus.
• 1:10:27
  What were people expecting? I'm not too sure.
• 1:10:30
  I don't know. I didn't really know what to
• 1:10:32
  expect. All we had to go on was the old
• 1:10:35
  series, so that really the Carmel era was the last thing we
• 1:10:38
  remembered, and the TV movie. So I think we thought we were
• 1:10:42
  going to be getting, you know, four part Doctor Who stories
• 1:10:46
  with alien invasions and lots of adventure and things like that.
• 1:10:49
  I remember when I first heard the soundtrack of Rose, I I
• 1:10:53
  downloaded the episode when it was available, but the picture
• 1:10:56
  didn't work for some reason, so I could only listen to it.
• 1:10:59
  So I listened to it and I went to my ex-husband at the time.
• 1:11:04
  This can't be it. What's this?
• 1:11:07
  This can't be. It's like a soap.
• 1:11:10
  And then I watched the episode and it made sense.
• 1:11:11
  And actually I'm still not a massive fan of Rose.
• 1:11:14
  But then the end of the world hit and I was like, oh, I'm on
• 1:11:16
  board, baby. It's colourful.
• 1:11:17
  It's camp. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:11:21
  Sorry, back to you. Yeah, #2 for this performances
• 1:11:25
  and like I'll say, Sean Dingell, just because.
• 1:11:30
  You know, we always talk about Eccleston and Piper and Camille
• 1:11:32
  Kadori, and I think he just fits that family so well.
• 1:11:37
  That's exactly the sort of dad that you expect.
• 1:11:42
  Yeah. He seems to channel all that dad
• 1:11:46
  Ness that that I think people of our generation maybe have.
• 1:11:51
  Like there's bits in Pete Tyler, there's bits in him that
• 1:11:54
  everyone sees as they're in their own dad.
• 1:11:57
  And that's done really well. I think that makes it easier to
• 1:11:59
  buy into that character. And he plays it brilliantly, as
• 1:12:06
  you said it really early on, but it's so natural.
• 1:12:09
  The whole thing's quite natural. Much, much.
• 1:12:12
  You might disagree, but no. Yeah, I'll say him his
• 1:12:17
  performance. I'm not going to say
• 1:12:19
  performance, I'm going to say character.
• 1:12:21
  And that's Jackie. God, just think everything she
• 1:12:24
  touches is gold. And I do want to go back to the
• 1:12:27
  point about she's not the sort of character you would normally
• 1:12:30
  have in a Doctor Who story. I think going forward, really,
• 1:12:34
  we don't really get anyone quite like Jackie again, which he just
• 1:12:39
  feels like she's she's stepped into a science fiction story and
• 1:12:44
  gone I What's going on, you know?
• 1:12:48
  The beating oh be a ghost where he goes, oh you you've taken my
• 1:12:51
  mum in the TARDIS and she's like.
• 1:12:53
  If you take me to Mars, I'm going to.
• 1:12:55
  Kill you and she's just as brilliant in this as she always
• 1:13:02
  is. She's a loudmouth cow.
• 1:13:04
  She's far more, far more effective than she thinks she is
• 1:13:11
  as a mother, you know, as an ally to the doctor.
• 1:13:15
  She's a really good person and a funny person.
• 1:13:19
  So I love Jackie Tyler. She.
• 1:13:21
  Brings you into it, and she brings.
• 1:13:23
  Like the the Non, they are like non profit Doctor Who fans in
• 1:13:29
  there because that's what they're like, you know, You can
• 1:13:33
  imagine someone who doesn't, who's not particularly Doctor
• 1:13:35
  Who. Watch it.
• 1:13:35
  Watch an army of ghosts and be like if this fucking thing goes
• 1:13:39
  to Mars, I can't be dealing with this, I'm going to switch off.
• 1:13:41
  She's just channelling that and. I mean, I the Doctor Who is
• 1:13:47
  great when everyone likes it as much as we don't think of it,
• 1:13:51
  it's it's great when you when it's just you like it and you
• 1:13:54
  get to be a bit contrarian. That is great.
• 1:13:56
  But you know when everyone's talking about it and everyone's
• 1:13:59
  watching it like they were back in this time, that is, there's
• 1:14:04
  there's no better feeling really waiting for a doctor.
• 1:14:07
  Also, she's a gobby sex mad, you know, nut case.
• 1:14:13
  So I absolutely can buy into it because it's basically me.
• 1:14:18
  Very good. I've spoken a lot about sort of
• 1:14:23
  the destruction of Moses, idea of a hero and stuff.
• 1:14:27
  I think after one, apart from just the fact it makes me cry.
• 1:14:32
  I think the third one, I'll just go for a simpler iconic lines.
• 1:14:37
  Like these are the sort of lines that go around my all time when
• 1:14:40
  a cooking pasta, when I get into bed, things like that.
• 1:14:44
  The odd line will come in and they'll be like don't touch the
• 1:14:47
  baby, get in the church, you know they are the one.
• 1:14:52
  You're a normal stupid ape. Give you the.
• 1:14:54
  Jacob Dublin wants to hang up his hat.
• 1:14:56
  Honestly, Big Finish should call you.
• 1:15:00
  Yeah, I think it's been 2-2 in the morning, straight corner.
• 1:15:06
  Wish I had a life like that. Got a lot of quoting, you know,
• 1:15:09
  in our episodes. Well, you do all the time.
• 1:15:13
  Take it all. Take it all.
• 1:15:17
  I've walked in universes that were devised by the mind of a
• 1:15:21
  madman. Oh, you don't mean many Elvins,
• 1:15:24
  do you? Oh shit, I've got cramp in my
• 1:15:31
  leg. Going down the spinning wheel
• 1:15:33
  tonight? Get him in.
• 1:15:36
  Oh, my phone got really bad cramp in my leg.
• 1:15:38
  Do. You know what?
• 1:15:39
  I'm going to keep it in the episode.
• 1:15:41
  That's my punishment for criticizing Father's Day as much
• 1:15:44
  as I have. Oh Blimey.
• 1:15:46
  The title. Sorry as the 4th one.
• 1:15:48
  Lovely title, lovely title. Or Father's Day.
• 1:15:51
  Yeah, great title. Nice and simple before we got
• 1:15:54
  out of hand. Husband's a river song, that
• 1:15:56
  sort of thing. Fucking hell.
• 1:15:58
  See how I that come in the pole? Yeah, love that episode.
• 1:16:03
  Now go on, watch your thirds. Do we agree on anything?
• 1:16:09
  Oh, we're so friendly with each other.
• 1:16:12
  My third one is going to be, oh, it's the Reapers, but it's not
• 1:16:16
  the execution because I think that's very poor.
• 1:16:18
  It's just when it's the red POV shot that looks terrible, but I
• 1:16:22
  like the idea. Don't roll your eyes at me, Mr.
• 1:16:25
  Jennifer. Oh.
• 1:16:28
  Touché Yeah, I do like the idea of these things that sort of
• 1:16:34
  come along and cauterize wounds in time.
• 1:16:37
  That's a very sort of sapphire and steel idea.
• 1:16:40
  Yes, I know. I'm talking about old JAMA TV
• 1:16:42
  again. That's because I'm old.
• 1:16:44
  No, I like it as well. Oh, do you?
• 1:16:46
  As I like the idea of the Reapers and I like, I like the
• 1:16:49
  idea that something comes and fixes the wound, yeah, I think
• 1:16:52
  that's great. You like sapphire and steel?
• 1:16:53
  Sorry. Oh, no, sorry.
• 1:16:54
  Oh no, I've not seen it. But you know, I can't imagine
• 1:17:01
  anyone it's more fun to disagree with than you.
• 1:17:05
  Yeah, touché as well. Something personal.
• 1:17:08
  It's so it's so fun and and I think then you do and sometimes
• 1:17:12
  they just make the best episodes because you do get 2 distinct
• 1:17:16
  opinions and it's almost like at the end, right?
• 1:17:18
  Where do I fall? Yeah, I I do think not to do
• 1:17:22
  myself a disservice, but I think someone could come on and really
• 1:17:26
  get to the heart of why Father's Day is so good.
• 1:17:29
  Was I? I'm more saying it from a
• 1:17:31
  personal point of view. I just think it's really
• 1:17:33
  brilliant and I can say there's a good things about it, but I
• 1:17:36
  don't. I can't even.
• 1:17:37
  I can't figure it like out what it is that makes it a top ten.
• 1:17:41
  What really gets there? It's just I put it on all the
• 1:17:45
  time and I think it's really, really lovely.
• 1:17:48
  Don't on the sale how well you celebrated that episode then I I
• 1:17:53
  remember Hado saying to Rusty Davis when he did the interviews
• 1:17:58
  for The Big Finish. They're brilliant.
• 1:18:00
  They're brilliant. I'm the three, he said.
• 1:18:03
  I was haunted by the fact that you were doing this episode in
• 1:18:06
  season one, and then I watched it and it was a 10 out of 10 for
• 1:18:10
  me. And he goes, and it's just the
• 1:18:12
  sort of episode I wouldn't want you to do again, but I loved it,
• 1:18:16
  you know? Yes, which I again is very sort
• 1:18:19
  of ambiguous, but I think to to other people that just can't
• 1:18:24
  find the right words. That's it.
• 1:18:27
  It is. It's unique.
• 1:18:28
  It it and it hit at just the right time and there's nothing
• 1:18:32
  else quite like it. Yeah, I mean, I mean there's
• 1:18:36
  there's usually the best you know Doctor Who episodes aren't
• 1:18:39
  they love and monsters hit at the right time.
• 1:18:42
  No, but actually be be so racketing hit at just the right
• 1:18:46
  time. Being serious for other ones
• 1:18:47
  though, like midnight. You wouldn't want them to do
• 1:18:49
  midnight again and. That hit the right side.
• 1:18:52
  Oh yeah, actually, yeah, the the whole of series four hit at the
• 1:18:55
  right time. Really, really did, didn't it?
• 1:18:57
  Stolen Earth. I mean all those episodes.
• 1:19:01
  I mean, yeah, I I mean, and they're talking about, you know,
• 1:19:07
  the rumoured musical episode in series 14 that that would hit at
• 1:19:11
  the right time and that would be unique.
• 1:19:14
  And what if they do a musical episode?
• 1:19:15
  You're never going to want them to do it again.
• 1:19:17
  But my God, if there's one person I want.
• 1:19:20
  To be ahead of the show when they do a music episode, it's
• 1:19:23
  Russell T Davis. And if it's true and he has
• 1:19:26
  pulled in all that Hollywood talent, you know, the best
• 1:19:28
  musicians in the world. Oh go baby man.
• 1:19:32
  If that. If that does happen, I'll have
• 1:19:33
  an erection for a week. Can you?
• 1:19:35
  Imagine like #1 in the in the charts is a song that got big on
• 1:19:40
  the Doctor Who music episode. It's basically the only place
• 1:19:43
  Russell can take it out or to the movies.
• 1:19:46
  You know, like. He's already taken it to hear
• 1:19:49
  when I got a feeling it's going to take it to hear, you know.
• 1:19:51
  I've been serious though. Then like, you don't talk about
• 1:19:55
  Bruno from Encanto. That was on the radio for like
• 1:19:57
  2020 weeks. Imagine if that's a song from
• 1:20:00
  Doctor Who and everyone knows it's a song from Doctor Who and
• 1:20:02
  it's popular and cool and number one of the charts.
• 1:20:06
  It could go there. He could do.
• 1:20:08
  It I know. Well, folks, I've got to ask you
• 1:20:11
  then, who do you agree with? I know the answer because
• 1:20:14
  everyone loves us. Do you agree with the?
• 1:20:17
  Handsome, magnanimous, charismatic northern presence
• 1:20:22
  that is Mr. Luke Malloy. Oh yes you do.
• 1:20:28
  I'm charismatic, I'm intelligent, slightly
• 1:20:31
  overweight, middle-aged. Say it again.
• 1:20:39
  Boom. I'll put a poll on Twitter and
• 1:20:41
  then I'll be wrong in seven days time.
• 1:20:46
  Honestly, how much fun. Brilliant, yeah.
• 1:20:49
  Have we agreed on our third episode after this?
• 1:20:52
  Apart from. Where are we going next?
• 1:20:55
  I I thought in the back of my head it'd be good to go.
• 1:20:58
  Classic, wasn't it? I always come on and talk about
• 1:21:00
  new series because it's my you want to do no more.
• 1:21:02
  It's my patch Smart, the new series, but I think I'm done
• 1:21:05
  with the classics I've talked about.
• 1:21:06
  I never said. That was done.
• 1:21:08
  You said that. I've talked about that racist
• 1:21:10
  talents of Wing Trial for six episodes, and I'll talk then how
• 1:21:12
  good it was for six episodes and how how dreary was that?
• 1:21:16
  Well, I'll tell you what, my numbers for those episodes were
• 1:21:18
  through the roof, so you can shut your face.
• 1:21:23
  You pick a classic story and I'll watch it.
• 1:21:26
  You, you, Even one you have not seen before.
• 1:21:31
  A classic story, is it? Yeah.
• 1:21:33
  Have you seen them all? Yeah.
• 1:21:35
  Oh, OK. Oh, but.
• 1:21:37
  But there's there's like loads. I'm never, I'm never overly
• 1:21:42
  familiar with them. Well, remember I'm going around
• 1:21:44
  again, so I could choose anything.
• 1:21:45
  You could choose anything. No.
• 1:21:47
  You choose a doctor. I'll choose a story.
• 1:21:49
  Oh. OK, let's go.
• 1:21:56
  What's going to be interesting for me and you?
• 1:22:00
  We've done, Tom. So that's really about why do we
• 1:22:04
  go back and work, I'm going to say.
• 1:22:09
  Some paper on a time mash. Let's do Sylvester or Colin.
• 1:22:16
  There you go. You got two cheese for me?
• 1:22:18
  Oh my God. OK, would you be bold enough?
• 1:22:21
  This will be a brilliant one to talk about as well.
• 1:22:23
  Very divisive. It's in the trial of a Time Lord
• 1:22:25
  see season. Perry dies in it.
• 1:22:29
  And it's a story I haven't actually recorded yet with
• 1:22:31
  anyone. Mine.
• 1:22:33
  Warp. Mine warp.
• 1:22:35
  I'd love to see mine Warp I. So who said it?
• 1:22:39
  Someone said it on a podcast very recently.
• 1:22:41
  So this isn't me, but someone said it's probably dealing that
• 1:22:45
  you never you never know what you think about time at mine.
• 1:22:48
  What was it you he on, Dylan? 'S Oh yeah, Where every single
• 1:22:52
  time you watch it, you don't know how you feel or how you're
• 1:22:55
  going to feel when you've finished it.
• 1:22:56
  So yeah, I'd love to do mine. So interesting.
• 1:22:59
  Even from scene to scene, I'm like, oh, this is abominable.
• 1:23:01
  This is the best thing ever. Yeah.
• 1:23:04
  And I yeah, I quite we get to quote Brian.
• 1:23:08
  Fix it a lot as well. I'm a bit a big fan of Child of
• 1:23:11
  a Time, so me too, but I'm sold. Well, we're booking a date.
• 1:23:17
  That's what we're going to do. Fantastic.
• 1:23:21
  Let's go murder Perry.