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Empaths and Narcissists: Breaking Free from Toxic Attraction · The Spiritual Shitshow Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome back to the Spiritual Shit Show.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: I am your host, julie Wynn, and today we're diving into a topic that so many empaths have experienced and that's the dynamic between highly empathetic people and those with narcissistic tendencies.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: This podcast I have recorded a couple times because it is something that I have personally experienced in my life and, honestly, I find it really hard to talk about because I'm still recovering from it.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: But when I finally had the courage to share my story, I realized that by in sharing the story, it was giving other people the permission to also be like yeah, I know my mom's a narcissist.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Or, oh my god, I was in a narcissistic relationship for like 15 years and it sucked.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Or I know I have a sibling, I have a brother and he's a narcissist and we are estranged and it is hard.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: So the more I was able to talk about it, the more people were able to share that this is more common than not and how hard it is to heal from being in a narcissistic relationship.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: And we always joke now almost in like our support group that we have for one another that we do need like a 12-step program to get out of being in a narcissistic relationship.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: This may be a hard topic but, honestly, if you feel like you are an empath in any way, I want you to stick with this podcast and at least listen, because more than likely, you will attract a narcissistic relationship.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: It's just kind of what happens.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: And I also want to make sure that this conversation stays in a state of compassion and that it stays grounded, because narcissistic tendencies stem from deep, unresolved trauma and, just like empathy can develop as a survival mechanism in response to early childhood wounds, so can narcissistic tendencies.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: This isn't about blaming or attacking, but it is about bringing an awareness and being able to recognize patterns so we can break free and or get untangled from that relationship as quickly as we can.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Because, again, once we get out of it, it's hard.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: It is so hard and being in a narcissistic relationship really does cost you so much life force, energy.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: It costs you your identity.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: It requires a lot of rebuilding of self and life and dreams and goals when you get out of it, and it takes a minute to reclaim and regain your power.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: If you have ever felt drained, confused or doubted your reality in a relationship and again, if you think and consider yourself as an empath, this episode is for you.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: So let's start with what is a narcissist.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Narcissism itself exists on a spectrum, and while some people may have narcissistic personality disorder, many simply exhibit narcissistic traits, which means they struggle with emotional regulation, deep insecurity and an intense need for control and validation.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: I'm going to pause here, because I recognize those last three within myself just because of my own childhood story and wounding and trauma, and I think sometimes, when we are coming out of a narcissistic relationship, we'll be like well damn, am I the narcissist?
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: And my friend told me that if you think you are a narcissist, you are definitely not the narcissist.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: So, at the core, though, narcissism is a trauma response, and most narcissistic individuals were not nurtured in a way that allowed them to develop healthy self-esteem, that there is something that broke in their childhood, that, instead of feeling safe in their emotions, they learned to protect themselves by controlling others, seeking admiration and suppressing their true vulnerability.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: And here's where the dynamic comes in Empaths tend to be drawn to narcissists, and narcissists are drawn to empaths.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: If you're an empath, you likely feel other people's emotions deeply.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: You are a giver.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: You are a people pleaser.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: You naturally want to help and heal others.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: You see the good or the hope in other people versus being able to see who they are clearly, and you probably struggle with setting boundaries.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: This is why empaths and narcissists often get entangled and they mirror each other's wounds, but in opposite ways.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: The empath gives too much, the narcissist takes too much.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: The empath wants connection and the narcissist fears vulnerability.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: The empath sees the hurt child in the narcissist and the narcissist sees the emotional supply in the empath.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: I'll say that last one again as I'm recording these.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Some of it is for me too, but the narcissist sees the emotional supply in the empath.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: When you are in a narcissistic relationship, you tend to feel drained, disillusioned, disempowered, and a lot of this is because you become a light and life force for the empath.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: It becomes very codependent.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: You will find yourself being isolated, isolated from friends, from family, and this is because, the more they can isolate you and you become a supply for them, an emotional, an energetic, a light, a life source supply.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: The result is a cycle where the empath keeps trying to prove their love, thinking they can heal the narcissist.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: They just don't see all the other things that are happening, while the narcissist keeps pulling them deeper with a mix of charm, control and confusion.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: When I came out of my narcissistic relationship.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: I was Googling what a narcissist is and I remember looking at the top 25 things that are telltale signs of a narcissist, and narcissists in my life checked every single box and a lot of these things that I was experiencing, but could never had a name for it or there was no explanation.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: I just felt it to be wrong.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: I felt unhappy in my life, I felt disempowered, I felt isolated, I felt crazy.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: And then when I was reading these tactics, I was like, damn, that's what that was.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: They were gaslighting me or they were isolating me, or they were love bombing me.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: So I want to go over some of these things with you as well.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: So number one is love bombing.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: And at the start of the relationship, a narcissist might shower you with affection or grand gestures or intense attention.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: You may be their right-hand man.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: You're the one that they lean on.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: It's very codependent.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a whirlwind and you're happy because empaths want connection.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: And so when we find somebody that's a soulmate whether it's a sibling, you know, or a partner or whatever, like when we get that we just want more of it because they make us feel safe.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: And love bombing isn't about genuine connection.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: It's about gaining control.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Once they have you emotionally invested, then the energy starts to shift.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: Gaslighting is something that I also want you to know, because it is an incredible manipulation tactic where someone makes you doubt your reality.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: You may hear phrases like that never happened, you're imagining things, or you're being too sensitive.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: Or look at you, you're overreacting.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: And I am telling you, as I am reading those, that noise is still a deep groove in my mind that when I do things or I am reacting a certain way, I still hear the narcissist in my head telling me being too sensitive or I'm overreacting.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: And so this is also the dangers of staying too long in a relationship.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: The energetic pattern, the psychological imprints, create really deep grooves that it is hard to get out of.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: It is hard to get out of and over time, all of those that never happened.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: You're imagining things, or you just made that up, or nobody thinks like that, or you're being too sensitive.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: Or look at you, I can still hear it, I can feel it when I'm talking about it, how gross it all was and is, and hard to say even.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: But anyway, all of this makes you question your intuition and you lose trust in yourself, and that is why I'm creating this podcast today, because I don't want this for you.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: It is so hard and it really is hard.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: If it's a narcissist within the family, you know whether your partner is a narcissist.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: It really negatively affects and impacts the entire family.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: It's just.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: It's just yucky.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: It's a yucky thing and I don't want to see people caught in it.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: But the other thing I want you to know is the number three, which is the push-pull cycle.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: So one moment you're on a pedestal, they make you feel like the most amazing person in the world, and then the next moment they withdraw.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: Or they'll replace you or they'll criticize you, or they'll just create this distance using silent treatment or other abuse tactics.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: And this cycle keeps you hooked because then you start chasing the good moments and hoping to bring back the person that they were at the beginning.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: So I remember at the beginning it was charming and I love you and let's do these things and you're so great.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: And then the cycle of pushing away the verbal abuse, the physical abuse, the financial abuse and because they have made you question your reality, then you're just left, being hooked into accepting the behavior, patiently, waiting for those good moments when it's good again.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Number four, which was wild to me when I looked back at my journey, like, oh damn, that's what happened.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: There was a moment where I was like where are all of my friends?
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Like how come?
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: I was definitely on this track.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: And then how did I get onto this other path?
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Like when did that shift happen?
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: And then in therapy thank you we were able to discover that it was this isolation tactic that narcissists use.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: And this is one of the most dangerous tactics that is used and at first it can feel subtle.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: The narcissist.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: In this isolation tactic.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: They might complain about your friends or family, saying they don't really understand us, or they're crazy, or they're too much, or I don't trust them, they're not good for you.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: Or they might make you feel guilty for spending time with others and or doing things that you like you don't need them.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: You know I'm all you need.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: Or they're not good for you, or they're dangerous, or they'll create lies about them that you begin to believe.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: So there's this isolation.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: They may also slowly encourage you to cut ties with your support system and or they may go through that back door and just cut those ties for you and you are left wondering, like why aren't we friends anymore?
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: What happened there Over time?
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: This isolation where you can't go out with your friends, you're not allowed to talk with your family, these other hobbies and activities that you want to do they make it very difficult for you to do those.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: This isolation weakens your confidence and independence, making you more reliant on them, and if you start feeling like you have no one else to turn to and you can't be honest and you don't have really any support in your life, it then just becomes harder for you to leave them.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: The fifth thing that I want you to know is that a narcissist will never admit their wrongdoing.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: They completely lack accountability.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: If you confront them, a narcissistic person will often deflect blame onto you, make it your fault, or they'll play the victim, or they'll twist the situation to make you feel guilty.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: And this is what leaves you feeling confused, like you're always the problem.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: You're the one who has something wrong with you.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: You need to go to therapy.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: You like it's all on you and I'm telling you it is not.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: It is not.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: It is not.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: You're just an incredible empath that is so soft and loving and giving and overgiving, and you are just unfortunately or fortunately, because there's a lot of lessons, I guess, to be learned in all of this, but you're just in a narcissistic relationship and I want you to get out.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: So how do you protect your energy and break free?
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: If you found yourself in these dynamics, I want you to know that you're not broken and you're not too much and you're not crazy and you indeed are lovable and powerful and your empathy is not the problem, but lack of boundaries might be.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: I want you to be able to recognize the patterns.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: If anything that I have said so far kind of rang a bell or like huh, yeah, I do sometimes feel like I am crazy, because when I am talking about what happened and the other person is saying that never happened, you're crazy, you're making that up.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: I feel crazy.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: I have experienced that.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: I want you to know that awareness is power and once you see the cycle, you can hopefully step back from it.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: I also need to hear this next one for myself you have to stop trying to fix them.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Healing is an inside job and you cannot love someone into changing.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: And in my road to recovery out of narcissistic abuse, I had to hear and it's still hard to believe that a narcissist is never going to change.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: They're never going to change.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: You're never going to get the apology.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: It's never going to be the relationship that you thought it was to get the apology.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: It's never going to be the relationship that you thought it was.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: That the relationship, the narcissist, it is never going to change.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: So if you are hoping that it will and they will come to their senses and they will be different, or you being with them will fix them, it is not.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: It is not.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: It is not.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: I also want you to be able to set firm boundaries.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: Narcissists often resist boundaries because they limit control and it is really hard to hold a boundary.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: So I don't even know if it's about holding boundaries as much as it is just getting out of that relationship.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Because once you get out of that relationship, then you can begin to rebuild your self-trust.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: And gaslighting may have made you doubt yourself and you have to be able to reconnect with your intuition, your wisdom, your light, your gifts, your dreams, your people, your friends, your family, to reconnect with your support system.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: So if you've been isolated, you have to start reaching out to safe people, supportive people, and that might mean even finding new people, and I also want you to know that you're going to have to prioritize your healing.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: Therapy has been helpful.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Intuitive soul sessions is helpful.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Any work that you can do to heal the nervous system is fantastic, and writing like you really have to be so gentle with yourself and write down like this is what was true for me today, or this is who I am, this is what I believe in, this is what I want, this is what I desire, because, again, being in the narcissistic relationship, it just strips you of all confidence, of your ability to trust your reality, to feel loved, and so a lot of it just takes a lot of work.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: Narcissists are not evil, even though sometimes we want to say that they are, but empaths are also not martyrs, which sometimes I want to say that I am.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: And so narcissists are not evil and empaths are not martyrs, and both dynamics are born from wounds.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: They're just expressed differently, and you can have compassion for someone's pain without sacrificing yourself in the process.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: And I want to remind you that you deserve relationships that honor your energy, that amplify your dreams, your gifts, your lovability, that respect your boundaries and, most importantly, that nurture your soul.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: If you are coming out of a narcissistic relationship, know that I am here with you.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: I understand it.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: It takes time.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Be easy on yourself.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: If you think you are an empath again, I hope that you have taken away some of these tools, especially the love bombing and the gaslighting and the isolation and the inability to hold boundaries, because you might be experiencing this and again awareness the more we know, the more we grow and we can hold, hopefully, strong boundaries, which I don't know.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Holding boundaries with a narcissist ever works.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: But good luck on that and I want to thank you for spending this time with me and I hope this was helpful.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: This is something that is really near and dear to my heart and I don't know.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Let's start normalizing healthy relationships and self-trust and the power of choosing ourselves and also being okay with sharing stories and knowing that when we share the stories, we're not making somebody else, we're not shining a bad light on them.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: We're just able to see again that a narcissist and an empath, we both come from the same wound.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: It's just expressing itself differently, but unfortunately it feels like in such relationships, the empath takes a lot longer to recover from the narcissistic relationship and the abuse that comes along with it.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: So anyway, until next time, honor your energy, trust your intuition, know that you are loved.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: You are incredible, you are capable.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Reclaim your confidence, know what a badass you are and remember that you are gold.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: You are gold and you are loved.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: I am honoring you and all the things that you are moving through today and always.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: May you always be in your light power and feel supported when you need support in your life.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being here.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Much love, julie.