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Mini: Fake News · Why We Do What We Do

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  Speaker 1: You're listening to Why we do what we do. Welcome
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  Speaker 1: to Why we do what we do Mini. I'm your
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  Speaker 1: host Abraham and I'm Shane. We are a psychology podcast.
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  Speaker 1: the end of our full length discussions. But our minis
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  Speaker 1: we just we just get in that topic and then
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  Speaker 1: we get out of there, and I think that's all
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  Speaker 1: the preamble I need before we get started.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that covers it great.
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  Speaker 1: Well. This episode is about fake news. The episode itself
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  Speaker 1: is not fake news, although I gotta say it is
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  Speaker 1: very truly serendipitous that this is published right before April
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  Speaker 1: Fool's Day, which is like the day of fake news.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, absolutely, like what good timing. And we've
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  Speaker 2: been talking about doing something like this for a while,
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  Speaker 2: but it just feels like the right time to cover
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  Speaker 2: this topic.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, this has been on the list, I think
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  Speaker 1: since we started making a list of topics for minis. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: finally just sort of got around to it. So, as
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  Speaker 1: I said, this is going to be called fake news
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  Speaker 1: because that's what we're talking about. You could also call
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  Speaker 1: this The Dictator's Guide to Destroy the World, Chapter one.
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  Speaker 1: It's also kind of like a basic premer on misinformation disinformation,
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  Speaker 1: and I do think, particularly after like assembling the notes
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  Speaker 1: and thoughts for this, this is really worth a full discussion.
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  Speaker 1: It's a pretty complex and nuanced issue. We could break
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  Speaker 1: down the distinction between misinformation, disinformation, propaganda, and fake news,
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  Speaker 1: but we will do our best to sort of unpack
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  Speaker 1: a Cliff's Notes version of the idea fake news in
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  Speaker 1: this discussion today.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, So I mean let's just go ahead
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  Speaker 2: and just dive into it. I think we've got a
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  Speaker 2: lot to unpack here. We do fake news, alternative facts, misinformation, disinformation, propaganda.
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  Speaker 2: There are a lot of terms that sort of broadly
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  Speaker 2: fit into this category of techniques to manipulate people. But
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  Speaker 2: it's really important to remember that knowledge is power, and
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  Speaker 2: one way to gain, protect or expand power is to
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  Speaker 2: control and even dictate what constitutes knowledge.
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  Speaker 1: So fake news, as we're talking about it here, this
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  Speaker 1: is content that is presented as news as information and
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  Speaker 1: that it is supposed to communicate some information or knowledge,
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  Speaker 1: but it is fabricated in part or in whole and
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  Speaker 1: lacks verifiable sources, quotes, or evidence.
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  Speaker 2: Right. So, for instance, Donald Trump claimed that Ukraine started
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  Speaker 2: the war with Russia. This is one false. It is
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  Speaker 2: demonstrably incorrect, right, It could not be more wrong. It
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  Speaker 2: is the opposite of correct, because of course Russia started
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  Speaker 2: the war, the fact that no one disputed until this bizarre,
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  Speaker 2: belligerent claim emerged from thin air.
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  Speaker 1: Yes. Now, fake news, interestingly is kind of a triple threat.
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  Speaker 1: It can do a lot of bad very quickly. It's
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  Speaker 1: very efficient at doing bad things. First, bad actors will
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  Speaker 1: intentionally spread and proliferate fake news because they can do
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  Speaker 1: this to influence public opinion, like opinion and attitudes, which
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  Speaker 1: and what I'm saying is like they make it up
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  Speaker 1: completely or again it could there could be a like
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  Speaker 1: a kernel of truth, a nugget of truth in there,
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  Speaker 1: but they twist it and pipulate it so that it's wrong,
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  Speaker 1: and they specifically put that information out there.
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  Speaker 2: Right. They also call real news fake news to buias
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  Speaker 2: people against legitimate reporting. So it gets people kind of
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  Speaker 2: questioning the sources, questioning legitimate information, questioning consensus even in
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  Speaker 2: a lot of different places.
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  Speaker 1: And the third prong of this approach is that in
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  Speaker 1: the ensuing chaos of lacking any coherent source upon which
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  Speaker 1: we can all agree, what can happen is that people
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  Speaker 1: start accepting any source that they are biased toward as
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  Speaker 1: the real information and all else as being fake, and
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  Speaker 1: so then they it's easier to implement and use propaganda
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  Speaker 1: when you have discredited people who are highly reputable and
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  Speaker 1: believable and trustworthy, but you've made it so that people
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  Speaker 1: no longer trust them or believe them. Then you can
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  Speaker 1: sort of just put out all the information you want
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  Speaker 1: that whether or not it's accurate, will get some people
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  Speaker 1: leaving it because they know don't know what to believe.
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  Speaker 2: Right, And so this is kind of how it works
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  Speaker 2: dictators dictators in general. This is like, this is like
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  Speaker 2: dictators for dummies, Dictators one oh one. This is the
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  Speaker 2: intro class for dictators.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, chapter one.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, what they do is they often start by criticizing
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  Speaker 2: the media as biased, fake or propaganda. Simultaneously, they will
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  Speaker 2: start publishing actual fake news propaganda and call it legitimate.
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  Speaker 2: And people who have authoritarian leanings tend to accept the
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  Speaker 2: narrative being pushed by the dictators, who are nearly universally
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  Speaker 2: right wing, because their preference is for that form of
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  Speaker 2: social control.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, so like they're they're more likely to go ahead
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  Speaker 1: and be persuaded by that because they already have tendencies
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  Speaker 1: in that direction, much like you might we might have
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  Speaker 1: tendencies toward or away from ads. We're back. We've been
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  Speaker 1: just unpacking sort of what fake news is. Let's get
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  Speaker 1: into why this happens, Like what are the motives for
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  Speaker 1: people here? But it's important to remember that this is complicated.
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  Speaker 1: There are a lot of reasons and there's a lot
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  Speaker 1: of nuance. But here here's someone some to consider. There
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  Speaker 1: are very common ways that this appears and what it's
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  Speaker 1: doing and why.
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  Speaker 2: Right, So, first you've got satire or parody, and The
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  Speaker 2: Onion does this beautifully if you are like a punk
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  Speaker 2: in the punk and hardcore scene. Then the hard Times
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  Speaker 2: dot net also does a really good job of this
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  Speaker 2: nice where it's like it seems like it's real enough,
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  Speaker 2: but like it's also meant to be silly. And Toby
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  Speaker 2: Morse as well does a really good job of setting
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  Speaker 2: up parity websites for current politicians and they are so
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  Speaker 2: mad about it.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah nice. Mad Magazine was another one that I think
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  Speaker 1: did a lot of this, where they would sort of
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  Speaker 1: do like intentionally funny satirical pieces.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
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  Speaker 1: Another way this shows up is impersonating real sources. This
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  Speaker 1: is a bad actor who is trying to bias people
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  Speaker 1: against a source of information by pretending to be a
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  Speaker 1: part of that source or representing that source and then
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  Speaker 1: doing it very poorly and making it look bad. So
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  Speaker 1: this would be like if Tucker Carlson started saying that
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  Speaker 1: he worked for Fox News or I worked for CNN
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  Speaker 1: or something and was spouting a bunch of crap. Then
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  Speaker 1: people might be like, wow, CNN is full of it,
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  Speaker 1: like they're really even though he is not even remotely
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  Speaker 1: related to any of their operation right exactly.
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  Speaker 2: It can also be misleading, and this can be used
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  Speaker 2: to control the narrative by leaving out key pieces of
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  Speaker 2: information or presenting a heavily biased version of the information,
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  Speaker 2: so they might report the actual event and then twist
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  Speaker 2: it or change it or alter some factor, not even
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  Speaker 2: alter it, but like just leave out something really important
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  Speaker 2: about whatever that event was.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, there is also, of course fabricating. This is a
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  Speaker 1: narrative that has completely made up, that is based on nothing.
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  Speaker 1: It is almost always used to try and persuade people.
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  Speaker 1: Sometimes it is to stoke fear about something. Sometimes it
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  Speaker 1: is to cast doubt on something. But it is whatever
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  Speaker 1: it is, It has no it is completely baseless, It
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  Speaker 1: is not grounded in reality at all.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, there's also manipulated content, and this is when genuine
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  Speaker 2: information has been manipulated to deceive the audience. It might
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  Speaker 2: be like a snippet or a SoundBite of a particular event,
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  Speaker 2: or a circumstance or something that somebody said, like Howard
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  Speaker 2: Dean during his presidential election campaign, that snippet of him
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  Speaker 2: yelling in front of the crowd was manipulated content because
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  Speaker 2: he was yelling, the crowd was yelling at all stuff, But
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  Speaker 2: they elevated the vocals on him and they only included
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  Speaker 2: that snippet of him yelling and they called it the
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  Speaker 2: Dean Scream or something like that, and it ruined his
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  Speaker 2: entire political career.
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  Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, yeah, that is definitely a strategy. There is
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  Speaker 1: also false associations. So I'm gonna this one needs a
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  Speaker 1: little bit of context to help unpack it here. This
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  Speaker 1: is supplemental content that doesn't actually support the presented content,
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  Speaker 1: but is intended to mislead. So like it's often like
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  Speaker 1: a picture that goes along with the headline, Well that
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  Speaker 1: picture is not actually the thing that's in the headline,
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  Speaker 1: but it is meant to be evocative and sort of
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  Speaker 1: just push your emotions a little bit. So there's a
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  Speaker 1: specific instance that occurred not that long ago. Fox News
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  Speaker 1: did this when they were presenting on There was this
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  Speaker 1: huge winter storm that hit Texas a couple of years ago,
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  Speaker 1: and that resulted in these major power outages with people
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  Speaker 1: like didn't have heat or didn't have cooling, or they
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  Speaker 1: did you know, their houses flooded what was happening during
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  Speaker 1: this huge freeze. They showed images of these windmills that
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  Speaker 1: were completely frozen over, and then they blamed the power
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  Speaker 1: outages on wind power. However, the images that they showed
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  Speaker 1: were actually from a totally different country, Like they were
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  Speaker 1: not only not from Texas, they were not even from
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  Speaker 1: the United States. And ironically, in this case, it was
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  Speaker 1: the wind power that was more operational than the traditional
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  Speaker 1: coal powered plants that were failing in this storm. So
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  Speaker 1: they were trying to essentially push this agenda that it
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  Speaker 1: was green energy was to blame for the power outage,
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  Speaker 1: even though the green energy what was working more. And
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  Speaker 1: the image that they presented the false association was a
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  Speaker 1: picture that was not even of the windmills in their
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  Speaker 1: own like local area. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Again easily easily and demonstrably false, Like you can find
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  Speaker 2: that information so rapidly.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Another thing to do is a false context. This is
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  Speaker 2: when actual information is shared but using false or incorrect context. So,
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  Speaker 2: as an example, the White House released some immigration numbers
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  Speaker 2: comparing rates during Biden's administration and Trump's, purporting that at
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  Speaker 2: a ninety five percent decrease from between the two administrations. However,
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  Speaker 2: the context was incorrect and misleading. The Biden numbers were
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  Speaker 2: an average of a seven day period. Trump's numbers were
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  Speaker 2: from the daily average a one day period, two different
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  Speaker 2: data sets and two different measures. Really, Also, the two
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  Speaker 2: data sets were aggregated, likely strategically from points that reflect
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  Speaker 2: the desired summary, because immigration numbers EBB and flow, and
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  Speaker 2: so the data aggregators seem to have selected a particularly
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  Speaker 2: high sample window from of time for Biden and a
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  Speaker 2: particularly low sample window for Trump. So they basically just
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  Speaker 2: like manipulated the data and provided false context for all
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  Speaker 2: these talking points.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it was like there was a decrease. Even
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  Speaker 1: if you were to like look at the daily average
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  Speaker 1: from that seven day period, there was a decrease. But
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  Speaker 1: they're like, but these EBB and flows happen all the time,
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  Speaker 1: Like they all they had to do was pick a
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  Speaker 1: period of time when it was during a flow period
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  Speaker 1: and a time was during an eb period, and they
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  Speaker 1: could have gotten basically the same numbers for Biden or
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  Speaker 1: for Trump. Right, Instead, they're like, here's a total of
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  Speaker 1: seven days or a total over a seven days for
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  Speaker 1: Biden or a total over one day for Trump and
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  Speaker 1: calling that a ninety five percent decrease, again with the
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  Speaker 1: intention to mislead people. Right, Okay, there's so much, so
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  Speaker 1: much to do, but a summary of all of that
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  Speaker 1: to just get out, get out of here, and we're
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: just going to have to come back and do a
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  Speaker 1: much deeper dive on this is that calling trustworthy, reputable
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  Speaker 1: media fake news is a tactic to delegitimize good faith
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  Speaker 1: reporting and to create confusion and so discord, to create
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  Speaker 1: an opening to control the narrative, to essentially be able
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  Speaker 1: to manipulate people by having them distrust those so that
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  Speaker 1: are actually trustworthy.
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  Speaker 2: Right, and spreading deliberately incorrect, harmful, and misleading information further
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  Speaker 2: eroads trust in reporting and can influence people who are
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  Speaker 2: hoodwinked by it. It can actually change public opinion and
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  Speaker 2: cause a lot of major major impacts on the communities
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  Speaker 2: at large.
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  Speaker 1: And as far as what we can do about this, well,
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  Speaker 1: one thing is to verify sources, so like fake news
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  Speaker 1: that is fake can be found out because it lacks evidence,
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  Speaker 1: it does not have credible or verifiable sources and it
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  Speaker 1: can be fact checked, like you can go and find
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  Speaker 1: the actual information and be like, oh, that's that's completely wrong.
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  Speaker 1: So like it's a lot more work. And I know
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  Speaker 1: that that's not something that a lot of people are
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  Speaker 1: going to do, but I think that the people who
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  Speaker 1: are committed to trying to help move things in the
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  Speaker 1: right direction, these are things that they could be doing.
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  Speaker 1: Is like to be able to point and Snopes, I
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: think is a really good example of this. Like that's
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: a website where they kind of all they do is
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: debunk false claims that exist out there, right, And so
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  Speaker 1: that's a good a good source to potentially look at
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  Speaker 1: and see is this credible? And they're also very good
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  Speaker 1: at being i think, pretty unbiased and mater of fact.
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  Speaker 1: I think they are much friendlier to some of the
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  Speaker 1: people on the right than they need to be. They
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  Speaker 1: do a pretty good job of just like unpacking any
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  Speaker 1: claim whatsoever and then saying like there is no evidence
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  Speaker 1: for this, or there.
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  Speaker 2: Is right exactly.
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  Speaker 1: All right, Well we went that's about a right amount
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  Speaker 1: of time.
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  Speaker 2: I think, Yeah, it feels good.
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  Speaker 1: We're going to wrap up this discussion of on this
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  Speaker 1: mini on fake news. Is there anything you'd like to
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: add or anything that I forgot before we close this
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  Speaker 1: one out not the moment. Thank you all for listening.
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• 13:46
  Speaker 1: But we're at our time, so thank you all for listening.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Thank you for recording with me today, Shane, Thank you
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: to my team and this Abraham.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: This is Shane.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: So why we Do what we Do? Mini is out I.
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