Latest / Abide Meditation App / Was Jesus Really Born in Bethlehem

Transcript

Was Jesus Really Born in Bethlehem · Abide Meditation App

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This is Bethlehem, a city located a few miles south
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: of Jerusalem. Each year, thousands of Christian pilgrims travel to
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Bethlehem to visit the Church of the Nativity, an ancient
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: church commemorating the birth of Jesus built directly over a
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: grotto said to be where Jesus was born. But was
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Jesus really born in Bethlehem, turns out many, if not most,
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: scholars say no. The story of the birth of Jesus
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: appears in two books in the New Testament, the Gospel
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: of Matthew and the Gospel of Luke, but New Testament
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: scholars have long noticed that these two versions are very different.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Matthew's version goes something like this. Mary finds herself pregnant
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: from the Holy Spirit before having lived with Joseph. Joseph
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: wants to avoid publicly humiliating her because of this unplanned pregnancy,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: so he plans to divorce her quietly, but an angel
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: of the Lord convinces him otherwise. The chapter simply ends
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: with Joseph taking Mary as his wife and Jesus being born.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Chapter two includes a dramatic story of Magi traveling from
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: the East to Jerusalem, asking King Herod about the newborn
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: king of the Jews, Herod attempting to kill all baby
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: boys two years and younger in order to eliminate this
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: potential rival, and the Holy Family escaping into Egypt to
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: avoid this massacre. The chapter ends with the return from
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Egypt after Herod's death. However, because Herod's son is ruling
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: over Judea, Joseph fears for their safety and instead goes
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: to the region of Galilee and settles in Nazareth. So
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: in the Gospel of Matthew, the hometown of Jesus appears
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: to be Bethlehem. Chapter two starts with the statement after
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea. Nazareth is not
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: mentioned at all until the end of chapter two, and
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: it's implied to be a place where they newly settled there.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: He made his home in a town called Nazareth. In
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Luke's version, Mary and Joseph already live in Nazareth, but
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: they traveled down to Bethlehem because a decree from Caesar
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Augustus required everyone in the Roman Empire to be registered
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: in a census, but they had to be registered in
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: their ancestral homes. They go to Bethlehem, because, according to Luke,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: that was Joseph's ancestral home as a descendant of King David, who,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: according to the Hebrew Bible, was from Bethlehem. There, Mary
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: gives birth to Jesus and lays him in a manger.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Then a host of angels appeared in nearby shepherds, announcing
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Jesus' birth as the Savior and the Messiah, and the
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: shepherds go to Bethlehem to see the child. So Matthew
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: and Luke do share some broad brushstrokes. The parents of
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Jesus are named Mary and Joseph. Jesus is born in Bethlehem,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: and he eventually moves to Nazareth, but the two narratives
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: are very different. Luke has the census, the manger and
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: the shepherds. Matthew has the magi, the escape to Egypt,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: and the evil king Herod killing babies. So let's return
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: to the original question, was Jesus really born in Bethlehem.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: When assessing the historicity of a claim, historians usually like
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: multiple independent sources. Multiple independent sources reporting on the same
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: claim makes that claim more likely to be true. But
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: despite this, most critical scholars argue that Jesus was not
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: actually born in Bethlehem, but more likely was born in Nazareth.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: One of the definitive studies on this topic is by
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: the scholar Raymond Brown, who addresses the question in his
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: seven hundred and fifty page monster of a book called
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: The Birth of the Messiah. In one chapter, he casts
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: serious doubt on Bethlehem as the birthplace of Jesus, following
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: two lines of evidence. The first part of the argument
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: focuses on the fact that Bethlehem shows up nowhere else
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: in our earliest sources. Instead, Nazareth and the Galilee seem
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: to be taken for granted as Jesus's hometown in native region, respectively.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: For example, the earliest gospel, the Gospel of Mark, never
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: mentions Bethlehem, but it does call Nazareth his hometown. Mark
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: chapter six records a dramatic scene of Jesus being rejected
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: by the people of Nazareth. Verse one says he came
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: to his hometown and started teaching in the synagogue, but
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: the locals were offended by him. Jesus responded, Prophets are
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: not without honor except in their hometown and among their
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: own kin, and in their own house. As Raymond Brown says,
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: none of the neighbors of Jesus betray any knowledge that
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: Jesus had an auspicious beginning by being born in the
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Davidic city of Bethlehem. The Gospel of John also seems
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: to assume Nazareth as Jesus's hometown. Before meeting Jesus, the
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: future disciple Nathaniel mockingly says, can anything good come out
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: of Nazareth. There's also a scene in chapter seven where
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: the crowd is reacting to Jesus's teachings. Some members of
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: the crowd believe that Jesus is the Messiah, but some doubt,
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: pointing out his problematic hometown has not. The scripture said
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: that the Messiah is descended from David and comes from Bethlehem,
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: the village where David lived, but the Gospel makes no
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: attempt to connect Jesus to Bethlehem, even though it would
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: make sense in the context of this story. Now, to
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: be fair, hometown doesn't necessarily mean birthtown. I was born
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: in New Jersey, but I've lived most of my life
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, so I call Pennsylvania my home state. But
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: to quote the New Testament scholar Rudolfo Golvin Estrada. The
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Gospels revealed that they either had trouble linking Bethlehem with Jesus,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: did not know his birthplace, or were not concerned with
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: this city. The second part of Raymond Brown's argument focuses
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: on Matthew and Luke, the implausibilities in both narratives, the
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: contradictions between the two narratives, and the theological motivations driving
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: their focus on Bethlehem. Let's start with the theological motivations.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: See According to the Hebrew Bible, Bethlehem was the hometown
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: of the famous King David, and a prophecy from the
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Book of Micah says that the Messiah was supposed to
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: come from Bethlehem. Both Gospel writers appear to be theologically
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: motivated to prove the Messianic credentials of Jesus, prove the
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: claim that he is the Messiah and he descends from
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: King David, and as the scholar geze Vermesh argues, the
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: geographical setting of Jesus' birth is crucially important for this agenda.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: But there's this tension bubbling under the surface of Matthew
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: and Luke. Jesus needs to be from Bethlehem because he's
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: the Messiah, but he also needs to be from Nazareth.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: The Gospel of Mark says that all the time, and
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: Matthew and Luke copied huge chunks of Mark into their
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: respective gospels. Matthew and Luke's two birth stories fix that tension.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Matthew's account is pretty straightforward. Jesus was always from Bethlehem.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: As we've already covered in the Gospel of Matthew, Bethlehem
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: appears to be Mary in Joseph's hometown. Matthew chapter two,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: verse eleven mentions a house, which suggests that they were
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: already living there, and Joseph wants and intends to return
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: to Bethlehem after their escape to Egypt, but only decides
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: to relocate to Nazareth out of necessity. The Gospel of
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: Luke's explanation for why Jesus was born in Bethlehem is
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: more complicated. It involves a census ordered by Caesar Augustus,
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: but most historians find Luke's explanation historically implausible. Luke says
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: this census was undertaken while a Roman politician named Quarinius
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: was governor of Syria, and also says that Jesus was
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: born in the days of King Herod, but this raises
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: a few problems. The historian Josephus reports that Quarinius was
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: indeed a governor of Syria and that Rome did indeed
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: conduct a census during his tenure, but all this happened
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: in the year six CE, about a decade after Herod
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: died in four BCE. Luke is probably conflating a few
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: major moments of Judean history, Herod the Great's death, the
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: census of Quirinius, and the creation of Judea as a
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: Roman province. Before this, Judea was a Roman client kingdom
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: ruled by Herod the Great son Herod Archelaus, but Caesar
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: Augustus deposed him for being incompetent and absorbed Judea into
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: the province of Syria. This meant that Rome began to
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: impose direct taxation on Judea, which would have required a
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: census of some sort in order to better administer the province.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: But Luke doesn't just get the dates wrong. His account
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: contains other implausibilities, like why do people need to return
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: to the home of their ancestors, let alone their ancestors
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: from one thousand years ago? As the scholar E. P.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: Sanders says, according to Luke's own genealogy, David had lived
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: forty two generations before Joseph. Why should Joseph have had
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: to register in the town of one of his ancestors
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: forty two generations earlier. This would have upended the entire
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Roman society and economy, and would have been a logistical
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: and administrative nightmare. Moreover, this doesn't mesh with what we
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: know about Roman administrative practices. To quote E. P. Sanders again,
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: ancient Roman census takers wanted to connect land and landowners
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: for tax purposes, so it was much more likely that
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: it was the census takers who traveled from town to town,
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: rather than entire families leaving to another town. Raymond Brown
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: argued in his book that the standard approach was to
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: register people where they lived or in the nearby principal
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: city of a district. Finally, according to Josephus, the census
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: did not involve the whole empire, like the Gospel of
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: Luke says, but rather the regions of Syria and Judea specifically.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: In fact, the Galiley was not even part of the
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: census because it was not under Quirinius's jurisdiction. At the time,
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: the region was independently ruled by another one of Herod
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: the great sons, Herod Antipas, so as a resident of
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: the galley, the family of Joseph would not have been
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: subjected to direct Roman taxation in the first place. Critical
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: scholars thus conclude that Luke's census story is an implausible
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: scenario that aims to fulfill the necessary preconditions to fulfill
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: the prophecy that the Messiah must come from Bethlehem. Now,
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: not all scholars reject the historicity of the Bethlehem origin story,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: even though Raymond Brown rejects it in his book book,
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: he offers a few counter arguments worth discussing. First, scholars
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: might be overemphasizing Matthew and Luke's apologetic motivations took place
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: Jesus's birth in Bethlehem. Paul never mentions Bethlehem, but he
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: says Jesus is from the lineage of David, same with Mark,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: as Brown says. By the time Matthew and Luke wrote
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: their Gospels, Jesus of Nazareth had been proclaimed as the
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Messiah for some fifty years. So far as we know,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: he had been preached and accepted by many without the
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: slightest awareness of his being born at Bethlehem. In other words,
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: for many Christians, of Bethlehem origin story wasn't necessary to
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: call Jesus a descendant of David. So would there really
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: have been that much pressure to contrive of Bethlehem origin story.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: The scholar of early Christianity, Michael Byrd, seems convinced by this,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: arguing that Bethlehem did not figure widely in Jewish Messianic hopes.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: After all, the main source for this belief is from
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: Christian sources in the New Testament, so it's hard to
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: prove that the rest of Jewish society at the time
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: held the belief that the Messiah must come from Bethlehem. Personally,
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: I'm not particularly convinced by this argument, because what matters
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: is whether or not an apologetic agenda was motivating Matthew
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: and Luke. Specifically, Bethlehem apparently did not matter to Paul
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: or Mark, but apparently mattered a lot to Matthew and Luke.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: The historian Sabine Humnor, who is an excellent historian, has
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: proposed probably the most sophisticated solution to Luke's apparent historical
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: problems regarding the decade long gap between Herod and Quorinius.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: She first argues that Coorinius might have been a lower
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: official who conducted an earlier census under a previous governor, Saturninus,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: who was in power between nine and six BCE. This
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: would line up the census with the rule of Herod
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: the Great, and even though Herod ruled relatively autonomously as
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: a vassal king at this time and thus ordinarily wouldn't
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: have been subjected to direct Roman taxation. She points to
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: an example from the Roman historian Tacitus of a Roman
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: census being held in the vassal kingdom of Cilicia Trachea,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: so direct Roman taxation within vassal kingdoms wasn't unheard of.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Regarding the improbability of a Roman census requiring people to
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: return to their ancestral homes, she turns to a papyrus
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: called London Papyrus three nine oh four. This is an
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: edict issued by the governor of Egypt in the city
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: of Alexandria in one four CE, which orders rural workers
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: who are temporarily living in the city to return to
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: their homes to register for a census. She writes, we
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: know from the tax lists that survive on papyrus that
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: everybody had to register in the place where they lived,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: but when somebody also owned property elsewhere, such as land
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: or houses, he also had to travel to that location
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: to declare what he owned there himself. She thus argues
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: the scenario in Luke is plausible if we accept that
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: Joseph's family was originally from Bethlehem and owned some property there,
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: But her argument hasn't been widely accepted. The scholar of
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: early Christianity, John Kloppenborg negatively reviewed the chapter, saying that
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: the papyrus in question concerns only those temporarily away from home,
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: saying that she implausibly conjectures that Joseph must have owned
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: proper in Bethlehem, implausible since Luke offers no hint that
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: Joseph was a landowner there. The scholar Brent Nongbrie is
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: more charitable, saying that her theory is plausible, but admits
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: that her client state census is not terribly well attested.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: The few examples of Roman taxation within vassal kingdoms may
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: be the exceptions and not the rule. I agree with
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: Nungriean say that her theory may move luke scenario to
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: the realm of plausibility, but in my view, does not
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: move it to the realm of probability because it seems
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: to contradict the rest of Luke's gospel. Luke Nowhere mentions
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: that Joseph was temporarily living in Nazareth, and in fact,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Luke seems to imply the opposite, he was living in
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Nazareth long term. Luke Nowhere mentions that Joseph's family owned
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: property in Bethlehem, and in fact seems to imply the opposite,
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: that the family was relatively poor and not multi city landowners. Moreover,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: the papyrus that she hinges her argument on seems to
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: concern only the workers living in the immediate countryside of Alexandria,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: and thus is not comparable Evie for a census requiring
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: a one hundred mile journey, let alone a journey that
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: required someone to return to their ancestral home. I find
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: myself siding with Kloppenberg here when he says these seem
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: heroic efforts to rescue Luke from an error, but it
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: would seem better simply to conclude that he was mistaken
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: about the date of Jesus' birth. This is not to
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: say that Luke invented the narrative whole cloth. Both gospel
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: writers were likely drawing on earlier traditions. We already know
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: that Matthew and Luke both copied Mark as a source,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: and there's even compelling evidence that Luke might have used
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Josephus as a source as well. But I'd agree with
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: the scholar doctor Helen Bond when she says it seems
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: more likely that the story was developed within early Christian
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: circles to connect Jesus with the Davidic Messiah. So the
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: different versions of the Nativity story found in Matthew and
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Luke show that Christians were actively developing the narratives of
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Jesus's life in the first few centuries after his death.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: One of the most influential versions of the birth of
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: Jesus is not even found in the Bible. The so
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: called Proto Gospel of James describes Mary riding a donkey
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: down to Bethlehem, so any Christmas card with a donkey
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: is inadvertently depicting an apocryphal version of the story. Sometimes
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: the fan fiction becomes as influential as the canonical stuff,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: which is what I talk about in my video how
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Star Wars fan fiction explains early Christian apocrypha. Longtime viewers
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: of the channel will know that I love Star Wars.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Maybe you remember that tatuine travel poster on the wall
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: in my earliest videos, So I'm excited to recommend my
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: latest obsession, the Holiday special by content creator and film
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: analyst Patrick H. Williams, which, as you can tell from
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: that branding that telltale yellow gold font, is all about
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Star Wars. Patrick tries to host a throwback musical comedy
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: Christmas show, but it devolves into a video essay analyzing
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: the past, present, and future of Star Wars. It made
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: me laugh, it made me cry, Well, it didn't make
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: me cry, but it did make me feel emotional anguish
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: for how bad Star Wars has become. Except for Andor,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: and you can watch it only on Nebula. Nebula is
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: a streaming service created by creators like me. It's a
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: place that enables us to make the sort of ambitious
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: content we want to make but can't make on our
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: own or wouldn't really work on YouTube. Premium high budget
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: stuff like an hour long special on Star Wars with
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: a really fancy set philosophy tube stage play, the Prints,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: or one of my personal favorites, Becoming Human, which is
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: made by the team behind Real Science. It explains the
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: evolution of humans, like how we started speaking language, walking
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: on two legs, or making tools. You can also find
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Nebula classes taught by some of your favorite creators, classes
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: like how to analyze movies, how to research like a
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: PhD student, or how to run your own content creation business.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: If you want to join Nebula, the best deal is
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: the annual plan, which works out to be two and
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: a half dollars a month if you use my link below.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: But now for the month of December, we're offering lifetime
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: access for three hundred dollars. Now that price point is
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: not for everyone, but this money helps to fund future
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Nebula original content. To get started, click the link below.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: Thanks everyone, I'll see you next time. S