Latest / UK Column Radio / 30,000 vs 500,000: Xiang Yu’s Stunning Defeat of Liu Bang | Silk and Steel

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30,000 vs 500,000: Xiang Yu’s Stunning Defeat of Liu Bang | Silk and Steel · UK Column Radio

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of the Silk and Steel podcast,
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Chinese history series, where we talk about Chinese history from
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: the deepest antiquity to what we optimistically hope will be
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: the present day, thereabouts. I am the perpetual guest, JJ,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: and welcoming us back is Carl, back in Bali after
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: a minor escapade during his Shanghai travels, but he's a
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: light casualty, so he should be.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, right? I'm a tough old man. I only broke
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: the rest of my writing. Back in the 205 BC,
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Liu Bang had broke through his entrapment in the Sichuan
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Basin by marching north across the Qingming Mountains to strike
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: into the Qing Heartland where the the three surrendered Qing
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: generals who had been made kings by Shang Yu, they
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: fell very quickly. Two of the three surrendered. Zhang Han,
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: the main guy, he was trapped in his fortress at
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Wuchou by Han Qing. And this siege will last for
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: eight months. But Liu Bang did not wait because within
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: one month, he basically captured all the former Qing men
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: except for this one long holdout by Zhang Han. So
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Liu Fang led all his army out east within one
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: month while he left Han Xin behind. He continued to
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: besiege Zhang Han. And very quickly, the other Qin's joined
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: him or surrendered to him because many people are not
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: satisfied with how Xiang Yu divvied up the spoils of
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: the Qin dynasty. And one particular king is the king
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: of Wei. Wei Bao, his older brother, was a former
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: king of Wei, Wei Jiu, who had to commit suicide
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: when he was defeated by Zhang Han. And then Wei
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: Bao was able to restore the Wei state when he
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: received some troops from Xiang Yu's uncle, Xiang Yu. Xiang Yang,
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: and then Xiang Yu defeated the Qin army at Battle
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: of Juhu. But Xiang Yu has other plans for the
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: land of Wei, because he was the most fertile part
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: of the Wei state, the part to its east. So
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: he took that for himself, and he made the king
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: of Wei, Wei Bao, the king of West Wei. So
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: he only gave him like the rank, like a like
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: a rump away state and not even the most productive part.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: So Wei Bao wasn't happy with that. So as soon
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: as Liu Bang crossed the Yellow River, Wei Bao had
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: come over to him. And a couple of Zhao generals
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: that was made kings by Xiang Yu also surrendered. The
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Zhao general Sima Ang and another general, Sen Bao, they just,
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: because Liu Bang just had a much larger-sized army. Xiao
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Ge had mobilized over 100,000 recruits for him. And very quickly,
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: Liu Bang was marching east. Another reason he's moving quickly
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: because Liu Bang's troops want to go home. Most of
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: them came from the east. So they have a big
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: incentive to go back to their hometown to secure their families.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: And also Liu Bang's own family It's like right now,
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: deep in Xiang Yu's territory. And Liu Bang was able
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: to secure the surrender of a rebel, a former rebel leader,
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: Wang Lin. So Wang Lin was actually an old apprentice
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: of Liu Bang. They all grew up in the city
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: of Wang Lin, just like the other guy, Yongzi, who
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: had betrayed Liu Bang. is from the local prominent family.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: So they kind of looked down on Liu Bang because
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: Liu Bang come from like the fallen aristocracy, right? It's
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: Liu Bang's family. But Yongzi and Wang imposed him from
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: local prominent family and they only joined Liu Bang because
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: of the circumstances. Because Liu Bang was promoted as leader
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: but they didn't really like to follow Liu Bang's command.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: So Later, Wang Lin kind of became his own independent
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: command of the rebels, and he controlled the Nanyang region.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Nanyang region is a former Chu, part of the former
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: Chu territories through which Liu Bang struck into the Qing
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: heartland through the Wu Guan Pass. And so Wang Lin
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: was left behind to administer that region. But when Liu
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: Bang's army came out east, Wang Lin quickly offered his surrender.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: So Wang Lin wanted to secure curry favor with his
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: new boss Liu Bang. So he led his army to
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: strike east, trying to secure Liu Bang's family. But his
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: army was led by Xiang Yu's general and was pushed back.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: And Xiang Yu was able to capture Wang Lin's mom.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: And so Xiang Yu wanted to use Wang Ning's mom
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: as a leverage against Wang Ning. Maybe persuade Wang Ning
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: to either stand aside or even defect over to him.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: And Wang Ning sent his own envoy to Xiang Yu's
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: camp to see if he could negotiate for his mom's release.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: And when the envoy secretly met with Wang Ning's mom,
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Wang Ying's mom told the envoy, look, the king of
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: Han is a good man, a good leader. You should
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: follow him. Don't worry about me. I'm already old. I'm
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: going to die anyway. Don't do it. Don't betray your
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: master because of me. I will make sure you have
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: nothing to worry about. After saying that, Wang Ying's mom
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: took out a sword from a nearby guard and fall
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: upon the sword and kill himself. So this really pissed
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: off Xiang Yu because he was intent to use Wang
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: Lin's mom as a hostage. This pissed him off so
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: much that he ordered to have Wang Lin's mom's body
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  Speaker 2: dismembered and boiled. Now this is a mistake because now
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: he has definitely pushed Wang Lin to there's no there's
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: no return act of return because before you know i
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: mean i understand why he would be angry because he's
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: angry that wang lin's mom sabotaged his plan of holding
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: her hostage but she's already dead just like give her
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: a proper burial send her body to wang lin and
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: maybe hopefully there's still room wang.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: Lin will stay neutral at some point right there's some
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: ambiguity there it's not a completely torn apart the face
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: to use that Chinese expression, right? So, but I guess
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: as we will see from when we hear more about
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: Xiang Yu's campaigns in the Qi state against the Tian Rong,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: he like really takes this stuff personally and really needs
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: to like express his like anger at people that he
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: thinks have disappointed him, even if it's not politically, you know, astute, right?
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he is barely driven more by emotions than logic, right?
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: But he, Xiang Yu did, you know, had to make
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: a quick decision what to do about this situation spiraling
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: out of control. He decided to focus on the Qi
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: state because the state of Qi and the state of
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: Zhao have made an alliance because the king of Qi,
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: Tian Zhong, has supported Chen Yu to take over the
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: Zhao state And so these two are now allies and
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: state of Xi and state of Zhao combined together, they
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: command 12 commandery, whereas Xiang Yu's own land is only
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: made up of nine commandery. So in terms of resources
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: and population, the Zhao-Qi alliance poses a much bigger and
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: more immediate threat to Xiang Yu. Xiang Yu decided to
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: cut off the head of the snake, which is Tian Zhong.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, he already ate Tian Zhong's guts because he
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: blamed Tian Zhong for his own uncle's death, right? His
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: uncle Xiang Liang actually saved Tian Zhong's ass at the
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: siege of Dong'e. And then Tian Zhong turned around and said,
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to help you unless you kill these
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: Qi defectors. When Xiang Liang refused, Tian Zhong said, okay, well,
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: I'm going to set out this conflict that you have
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: with the Qing state. And when Xiang Yang was defeated
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: by Zhang Han, Xiang Yu blamed Tian Zhong for it.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: And now Tian Zhong sabotaged Xiang Yu's whole plan of
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: basically divide and conquer, dividing Qi state into many mini states.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: Easy for him to manipulate because Tian Zhong is just
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: more powerful. He beat out all the... candidates backed by
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: Xiang Yu and monopolized the Qi state. Basically, he didn't
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: wait for his relatives to get consolidated in the new post.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: He's already there. He receives these orders from Xiang Yu,
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: the hegemon king of Western Chu, he's like screw this
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: you know you can't really enforce it right now so
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: i've got them momentarily everyone follows me so he kind
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: of yeah just flip the table yeah and and and
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: then he's so you know he's a major instigator all
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: the rebelling against shangri-la first he backed ten weeks to
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: overthrow zhang er in the south bay and then he
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: made an alliance with peng yue you know is a
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: guy who Another independent rebel leader with 30,000 men under
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: his command, but he was left out of Xiang Yu's
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: impeachment because he didn't lead his troop to join Xiang
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Yu's march into the Qin heartland. Xiang Yu only handed
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: out title and land to all these generals who followed
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: him to overthrow the state of Qin. So, Pen Yue
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: got left out with no land or official title. but
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: he has 30,000 men. So Tian Dong granted Peng Yue
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: a title of grand general and ordered him to attack
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Xiang Yu's home base. And so through all this, Xiang
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: Yu's like, okay, Tian Dong is the main instigator. I
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: have to take him out. So Xiang Yu quickly mobilizes
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: troops to strike Tian Zhong in the State of Qi.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: This is why Liu Fang was able to easily take
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: over the Qinghar Land and then march east because Xiang
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: Yu didn't have time for it right now. And Tian
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Zhong is no match for Xiang Yu. He was quickly defeated.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: When he fled to the city of Pingyuan, he was
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: killed by the locals. I guess he wasn't that popular.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: And at this point, all... the state land of Qi
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: formally surrendered to Xiang Yu. But this is where Xiang
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: Yu made a strategic mistake again, because he allowed the
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Chu troops to loot and pillage all throughout the land
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: and massacring cities. So in effect, he forced the surrendered
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: Qi city to rebel against him again. And the Qi,
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: and we'll see this again and again, because Xiang Yu
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: has a record a very consistent record, allowing his troops
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: to move in villages and cities and massacring whole populations.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: And when Siu troops were doing that in the Qi,
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: and let's remember, state of Qi really hasn't been touched
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: by large-scale fighting. Because they surrendered without much of a
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: fight during the late war and space period. They set
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: out the whole conflict for like almost 50 years, 50 years.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: And then they surrendered to the Qing without fight. So
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: the state of Qing was actually very rich, like at
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: that time, rich and prosperous. And now, and this is
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: maybe another reason Shangri allows troops to pillage and plunder.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes more sense.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: But that pissed off the local population, right? And then
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: so they didn't resist when the Qing army came. But
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: when the two armies start pillaging and killing the massacring
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: wholesale cities, Tian Zhong has a younger brother, Tian Hen.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: So he became the core of the new resistance against
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: Xiang Yu. And Xiang Yu very soon got bogged down
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: in a bog mark of guerrilla warfare, essentially, against the
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: Sun Tzu troops. And so he couldn't quickly turn around
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: and deal with the emerging Liu Bang situation. And on
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: the side of Liu Bang, he received his old friend
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: Zhang Er, who fled from the state of Zhao. And
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: then he, with Zhang Er's connection, he was able to
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: convince the former Zhao general who became king under Xiang
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: Yu to also surrender to him. So Liu Bang now
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: gathered a a huge force. And Liu Bang now tried to,
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: he's also tried to get Chen Yu of Zhao State
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: on his side because Zhao State is still a very
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: powerful state. And he also understands Chen Yu is also
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: at odds with Xiang Yu because Xiang Yu only gave
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Chen Yu three county and the title of army. And
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: Chen Yu had to grab power by himself by seeking
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: assistance from Tian Dong. Chen Yu has the incentive to
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: work with you, but Chen Yu has the condition. It's like, well,
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: I've heard my old friend Zhang Le has ran to you.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: I'm willing to work with you, but I want to
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: see the head of Zhang Le presented to you.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: This is basically Tian Rong's condition for joining Xiao Yi
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: before the Battle of Jilu, right?
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Yes. And Chen Yu and Zhang Er, they used to
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: be the best bosom buddies, you know, friends who would
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: die for each other. But because of the battle with
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Zhu Lu, these two have a big fallout because Zhang
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: Er felt that Chen Yu should come lead his troops
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: to rescue them, you know, die together as they promised.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: But Chen Yu is like, what's the point? You know,
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: it's like throwing me in front of the tiger with
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: my meager forces. I would die for nothing. If I
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: stay alive, I can take revenge for you. But for
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: Zhang Er, that's not good enough. So these two had
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: a big fallout. And after the Qin Dynasty overthrew, Zhang
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: Er was made king by Xiang Yu and Chen Yu
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: was only given three counties and the title of Marquis.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: So Chen Yu rebelled and overthrew Zhang Er. These two
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: became bitter enemies. He won Zhang Er's head. So Liu Bang, though,
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: he wants his cake and eat it too. He doesn't
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: want to kill Zhang Er because Zhang Er is his
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: old friend. As you recall, Zhang Er used to be
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: the retainer of Liu Bang's idol, Lord Xining of Wei.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: And when Lord Xining of Wei died, Liu Bang went
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: to join Zhang Er to become his retainer for a while.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Despite the big age gap, Zhang Er is old enough
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: to be Liu Bang's dad and these two became really
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: good friends, just like Zhang Er and Chen Yu. And
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: so Liu Bang didn't want to kill Zhang Er, but
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: he wanted Chen Yu's help. So he found a person
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: who looks just like Zhang Er, had that unfortunate chat kill,
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: presented his head and Zhang Er's head to Chen Yu.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: So Chen Yu was satisfied when he saw this head.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: And then the Zhao army also joined Liu Bang's alliance.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: By now, Liu Fang has under him a total... I.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Guess Chen Yu is becoming a bit nearsighted at this age.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: Because when I heard this part of the story, I thought,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: how does he not recognize the head? Maybe unless it's
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: kind of decomposed partially on the way, and you can say, oh, yeah,
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: it's close enough.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: Mutilated.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: So now....
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Liu Bang has, under his banner, a huge army. According
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: to the record of Grand History, he had altogether 560,000 men.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: My guess is this is the total number of men
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: of all these kings that joined Liu Bang, but not
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: necessarily all gathered in one place, because that's a huge number.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: Then Liu Bang led this force continued to push east.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: And they were able to, because Xiang Yu let his
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: main forces, let his main forces from Chu State to
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: State of Qi, so much of his back is exposed.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: So Liu Bang made a headway, he defeated all the
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: remaining Chu defenders, and he was able to capture, he
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: started to march on Xiang Yu's capital, Pengcheng. Pengcheng is
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: today's city of Xuzhou, which has always been a strategically
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: important area. Xuzhou was also fought over during the Three
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Kingdoms period. That's a land that connects north, south, east,
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: and west. I understand that's also the place where your
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: dad's family is from. That's So that's a strategically important area.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: And Pengcheng was the capital of the state of Chu
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: ever since Xiangyang's death. So at this time, Xiangyu's hometown
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: also had another issue. There's another defection to the Obang.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: And this is a person of Chen Ping, one of
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: Xiang Yu's advisor and main general. And Chen Ping who
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: became also very important minister in the future Han dynasty.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: He was a native of Yangwu. And when he was young,
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: Chen Ping's family was poor, but he loved weeding. And
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: his family had a 30 farmland. He lived along with
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: his older brothers. and the older brother's wife. Chen Ping
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: himself doesn't like to do the farm work, so he
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: let his older brother take care of all the farm work,
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: work all the land. And himself just spent the time
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: to travel and study and make friends. And Chen Ping himself,
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: he's a tall, he's a very tall man with these
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: very handsome features. And so, so the people, uh, one time,
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: some people asked him, it's like, you're poor, but how
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: did you, how were you able to eat food to
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: make you so fat? Right. So they're making fun of
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: him because he was mooching off his older brother and
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: his sister-in-law didn't take kindly to that, you know, to
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: this butcher. So he would, uh, so he started talking, uh,
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: shit about Chen Ping. He said, oh, he eats nothing.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: So when the guy asked Chen Ping, with poverty, what
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: did you eat to become so fat? She said, oh,
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: he eats nothing but bran and husks. Just making snide
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: remarks about Chen Ping. But when the older brother heard
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: about this, He was not happy that his wife was
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: talking shit about his little brother. He loved his little
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: brother and didn't mind supporting him. So he divorced his wife.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: He kicked his wife out. He divorced his wife. But
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: when this story started to spread, it kind of got distorted.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: The rumor became that Chen Ping was shacking up with
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: his sister-in-law. His brother got so pissed off that he
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: divorced his wife. It kind of twisted the whole meaning.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: It's a bros before ho story, and it becomes a
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: ho before bros story in the retelling.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: Right. So this is how people question Chen Ping's character.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: Maybe people are just jealous because Chen Ping is tall
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: and good-looking. And when Chen Ping finally reached the age
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: of marriage, the wealthy family, of course, are unwilling to
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: give him their daughter in marriage. But Chen Ping also
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: don't want to marry into a poor family. He thought
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: that was beneath him, even though he was poor himself.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: But after some time, there is a wealthy man in
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: his hometown named Zhang Fu and Zhang Fu has a
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: granddaughter who had married five times but all five times
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: her husband died so she was known as the husband
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: killer the black widow she brings the ultimate unluckiness to
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: her husband so nobody dared to marry her again nobody
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: wanted to be to test her own luck after the
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: fifth husband died. But, you know, she's, she, but she's
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: good looking. She's just beautiful. And, and her grandpa has
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: a lot of money. So the Zhang Fu was, started to,
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: you know, look for a prospective husband for, for a grand, granddaughter. So,
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: so Chen Ping then, volunteer herself. He doesn't believe in
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: the luck thing. The job that Chen Ping was doing,
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: besides butchering off his brother, he was presiding over a
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: funeral for him. He was an assistant mourner. He would
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: arrive early, leave late to help out. Zhang Fu saw that.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: saw him at the funeral site and was actually impressed by, uh,
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: Chen Ping's imposing presence. Again, this is where pretty, this
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: is a pretty privilege, right? Like, you're good looking. That
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: is capital. That is capital. Um, and just because Chen
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: Ping is good looking because he's tall and handsome. So
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: Zhang Fu decided he wanted to marry his granddaughter to him. And,
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: and then Chen Ping also, um, But Zhang Fu's sons
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: question him. It's like, what do you see in this guy, right?
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: This guy is poor, much of his brother, and the
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: only job he could find is as an assistant mourner
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: at the funeral. But Zhang Fu, he keeps on observing
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: Chen Ping. He follows Chen Ping to to his home,
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: where he found that Chen Ping lived in a poor
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: alley near the city wall. The door was made out
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: of worn-out mat, and yet there are many tracks of carriages.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: And Zangfu, being a rich person, he was able to
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: tell just by the track of carriages what type of
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: carriage those are. Some of these carriages are apparently well-made
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: and owned by wealthy people. So he's like, look, so
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: he's telling his son, look, I want to give my
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: granddaughter in marriage to Chen Ping. And his son's like,
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Chen Ping is poor and he doesn't take on responsibility.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: The whole county mocks his action. Why would you give your,
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: give my daughter to him, right? And Zhang Fu says, well,
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: if there's a, if they're, if they're truly a person
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: as handsome and fine as Chen Ping, who remained poor
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: and lowly forever. But really, I think he, because he
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: saw the tracks of the characters, he knows Chen Ping
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: has a lot of connections. You know, even though he
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: was poor and he was kind of seems to be
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: like good for nothing, but he seems to have a
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: lot of wealthy friends. And so Zhang Fu saw potential
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: in this guy. This was kind of very similar to
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: Liu Bang's own story, right? Liu Bang's own father-in-law somehow
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: saw potential in this guy and married his daughter to him.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: And so that way, Chen Ping was able to marry
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: into this wealthy family. And because Chen Ping was poor,
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: he doesn't have money for the bride of Christ. But
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: the grandpa of his son, prospecting wife, just give him
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: the money. Just give him the money and provide the
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: fun for the marriage. And then Chen Fu warned his granddaughter.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: He said, do not because of poverty, because Chen Pin's
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: poverty recklessly toward him. Treat your husband with respect. Also
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: treat your brother-in-law, your husband's older brother, as you would
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: a father and treat your sister-in-law as you would a mother.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: And then, um, and 10 pink kind of broke the trend.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: He did not die. He got married to a wealthy family.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: He got all these connections and all this money and
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: his fame. Uh, then he, he, he was able to
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: expand his travels to, to even make more friends and,
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: During one of the local community sacrifice in the village,
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Chen Ping served as a butcher and he was dividing
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: the meat evenly. After the sacrifice, the sacrificial meat are
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: taken back to be eaten. So he was dividing the
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: meat very, very evenly. And the elder said, well, excellent.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: This is, you know, this is, you know, Chen Ping
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: would serve as a fair butcher. And Chen Ping said, well,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: if I were to govern the world, I will also
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: divide it as evenly as this me. So this guy
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: always held Harvard-grade ambitions. So when Chen Sen first raised
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: a flag of rebellion and declared himself king, Chen Ping
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: then bid farewell to his elder brother to join a
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: group of young men to serve the kingdom. So at
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: that time, Chen Sen had installed Wei Jiu, the former
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: scion of the Wei royal family, the new king of Wei.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: So Chen Ping joined the new Wei court and But
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: Wei Zhou was killed during the battle with Zhang Han.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: So after that, Chen Ping went to join Shang Yu.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: And so he served Shang Yu closely as an officer.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: He even won the title of nobility while serving under
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Shang Yu. And Uh, and then, uh, when, so now
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: when the, when Liu Bang has made his move against
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: Xiang Yu, he has subdued, uh, he has, he has
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: subdued the king of Ying, which was a former Zhao general,
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: Sima Hang. Xiang Yu was busy dealing, stuck in the
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: state of Qi. So he assigned Chen Ping to deal
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: with Sima Hang for this betrayal. So Chen Ping led
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: his army, being a very competent commander as well. He
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: was able to defeat Sima Ang's forces and then Sima
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: Ang switched sides again to subjugate himself under Xiang Yu.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: And now Chen Ping, now he was made a lieutenant
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: general and was given a lot of gold by, he
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: was rewarded generously by Xiang. Now, but after a few months,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: Liu Bang let his forces again attack the king of
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Yin Sima, and Sima surrendered again. Now Xiang got angry,
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: but he decided to blame Chen Bing. He's like, you!
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: you you you you you have made 10 piece you
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: know surrender to me last time but that barely lasted
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: three months so it shouldn't be just lashing out right
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: and that's 10p saw the uh he he planned to
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: um he already killed all the people who was he
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: he already killed the people who were close to smile
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: like smiles old friend so 10p now is afraid for
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: his own life if you feel like he will be
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: next of the target of Xiang Yu's anger. So he
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: decided to make a getaway. And so he just took
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: his sword and he decided to cross the river to
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: join Liu Bang. When he crossed the river, because even
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: though he made a way in haste and he didn't
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: bring anything valuable in him, he's still wearing his very
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: elaborate nobility's robe. So halfway, when he's halfway across the river,
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: the ferryman was kind of eyeing him suspiciously. And Senpi
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: realized that, oh crap, this guy saw me as a mark, right?
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: So this is where Senpi showed his smart. So he's like,
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: he offered to help the horse and to steer, but
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: so he take off his clothes. to show that he
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: was nothing. He carried no valuable than to help power
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: the oarsmen to steer. So the bowman's like, okay, this
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: guy really is poor. So there's no point of killing
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: him and trying to take his money. So that's how
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: Chen Ping made safely across the river to join Liu Bang.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: And when Liu Bang, you know, Liu Bang was very
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: happy to see another person come in and so he
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: there's a because Chen Ping had a good friend that
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: was already working for Liu Bang they made recommendation for
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: him so Liu Bang asked what is your position working
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: for Xiang Chen Ping said I was working for Du Wei,
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Du Wei is kind of like one rank below the
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: general kind of like a lieutenant so he then Liu
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: Bang gave him the same title and gave him a
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: lot of responsibility. So when Chen Ping started to gain
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: the trust of Liu Bang, people started to get jealous
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: because especially a lot of the old followers of Liu Bang,
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: his buddies, his child playmates, who served, followed him all
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: the time, saw Chen Ping just came here and suddenly
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: gained a high position, gained trust of Yu Hong. So
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: everybody started to talk shit about Chen Ping, including that
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: old rumor that Chen Ping was banging his sister-in-law, all right?
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: Caused his brother to break up a marriage. And so
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: they all went to, they all went to Xia Hou Ying,
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Guan Ying, everyone, started to talk shit about Chen Ping
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: and Liu Bang, talking about how he was an adulterer,
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: and also he's not loyal. First he served State of Wei,
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: and he served State of Chu now, he served State
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: of Han. How can you trust this guy? So Liu
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: Bang then called Chen Ping's friend Wei Wuzi, Wei Wuzi
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: is actually the grandson of Liu Bang's idol, Lord Xing,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: Wei Wuxi. Because Wei Wuzi vouched for Chen Bei, that's
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: why Chen Bei was able to get his high position.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: So Liu Bang first called Wei Wuzi and said, you
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: have recommended Chen Bei, right? Now everybody's talking shit about him.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: Is it true? Is it true what they say about him,
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: that this guy is... you know, this guy, um, Oh,
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: another thing, accusation against him is his crud, his crud.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: He said he came, he came to our camp with
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: nothing and now he's wealthy. Where did he get his money? Right. And,
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: and then, uh, so, so, so Liu Bang said, okay,
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: I heard all these rumors about Chen Ping, about how
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: he's crud, uh, how he's like, uh, low, he's more,
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: he's a low moral character. Is this true? And Wei
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: Wuxu said, yeah, yeah, it's true. You're almost like, what?
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: Why then did you recommend it to me? And Wei
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: Wuxu then said, oh, because I thought you are looking
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: for talented people, you know, trying to help you to
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: take over all under heaven. I didn't know you were
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: trying to look for like a moral and upstanding character.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: The point of Wei Wuxu is like, look, you are
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: not hiring him for his high moral character. You are
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: hiring him for his talent, right? And this guy is
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: a very talented man. He's very good at what he does. Like,
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: why would you care if he's sleep with his sister-in-law
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: or not, right? I mean, like, that's a private matter.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: And as for the corruption, maybe he should ask something himself.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: And so, Liu Bang called Chen Ping in for a
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: party and Chen Ping didn't deny the corruption. He said, well, look,
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: I came here with penniless, you know, how am I
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: going to be able to work or do anything without money, right? So,
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: you know, that's why I did not refuse any bribes.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: And Liu Bang's like, okay, this guy's at least honest, right?
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: And so, Again, this is another pattern. A lot of
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: the rulers, sometimes they prefer a corrupt subordinate because with
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: a character flaw, they can't always hold it against their subordinate, right?
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: And they're a lot versus a morally upright character who
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: might harbor greater political ambitions, right? And, oh, this guy,
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: Chen Ping, he just wanted to be a rich guy.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: That's not a problem. And because it's corruption, later, if
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: you want to remove Chen Ping, he always have an
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: excuse because he's accepting a bribe. So this is a
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: pattern in the Chinese history, actually. A lot of the rulers,
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: they prefer, sometimes prefer a corrupt official, but who is talented.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: This actually goes against the Song Dynasty historian and minister
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: Sima Qian's comment. Sima Qian's comment is like, no, between
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: the character... Sima Guang, sorry, Song Dynasty. Song Dynasty minister
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: Sima Guang, right? Sima Guang's whole point is between character
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: and talent, you always choose character. You don't choose talent because...
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: because Sima Guang's point is if you choose a man
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: with no character and no talent, then at least the
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: amount of damage he can cause is minimal. But if
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: a guy who's very talented but with low character, he
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: could do a lot of damage. That's Sima Guang's argument.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: Basically, I think in this situation, if we look at
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: it another way, if you are confident in your leadership position,
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: so you're not likely to be displaced, then these somewhat
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: corrupt subordinates are manageable. But because they can't really betray
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: you for someone else because you are already the top dog.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: If you're not the top dog, then this method of
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: recruiting subordinates is quite dangerous. The early group of companions
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: of Liu Bang really have to be people who are
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: willing to stick with him through thick and thin, right?
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: And it's now that he's progressed to a certain scale
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: of his operation, now he can afford to hire purely
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: for talent, even if it's the, you know, personal morality
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: and like loyalty to him is, you know, more conditional.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so now Niu Bang is like, again, like I said,
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: he's like the main character in the RPG game, right?
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: He's collecting NPC companions along the way. Now he got
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: Xiao He, who is doing logistics for him. He got
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: Zhang Liang, and now Chen Ping being his advisors. And
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: he had Han Xin to be his general. You know,
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: he's all set. And now he has a huge army, 560,000.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: So he made a beeline for Xiang Yu's capital, Xiang
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: Yu's capital, Pengcheng, and he took it. He was able
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: to take the city of Pengcheng. And then he actually
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: sent his brother-in-law, his wife's brother-in-law, Fang Kuai, to lead
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: an army to block, to defend northeast part of Pengcheng,
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: because that's a passage to the Qi state to block
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: Xiao's return.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: As we may recall, just to remind the listener, in
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: all these wars during the Zhou Dynasty between the Lu
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: and the Qi states, they have to go around this
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: collection of hills slash mountains in the middle, between their
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: two territories. So it's either you go on an eastern route,
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: closer to the sea, which is, I guess, shorter distance.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: Other ways to go west of the mountains, which is
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: a bit longer.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so Liu Bang sent his wife's brother-in-law, Huang Kuai,
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: to lead an army attack that direction, but really to
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: cut off Xiang Yu's retreat back to the Chuhar Lake.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: Then he also sent his own brother-in-law, his wife's older brother,
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: to guard his flag, right? And then he feel like, oh,
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: everything is secure. And Pengcheng has been the true capital
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: for a while. So he has a lot of, all
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: the treasure that Xiang Yu looted from the Qing capital
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: is all in Pengcheng. And now Liu Bang is having
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: that moment that moment, a flashback of the moment when
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: he first entered the Qing capital, you know, when he
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: saw all the treasure and all the beautiful women, and
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: he came to indulge himself. And this time, Fang Kuai
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: is not there to advise him against him because Fang
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: Kuai was sent, he sent Fang Kuai away to block
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: Shang Yu's return, right? So Liu Bang thought, now it's
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: time for me to wallow a little bit in pleasure. Uh,
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: you know, I have, I have like the absolute upper
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: hand in this. I captured Shang Yu's capital and headquarter.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: And so he decided to hold feast every day in
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: the palace of Pengcheng, you know, enjoy all the wine
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: and women and feasting all his generals. Um, when the
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: news traveled to Shang Yu, uh, like this, this is
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: actually a very dire situation for Shang Yu right now,
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: because much of his force is still in the Qi territory,
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: trying to pacify it, but he's trying to put fires everywhere,
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: but the fire keep on popping up because he somehow
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: just refused to discipline his troops and let his troops
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: live off the land. And now his retreat has been cut,
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: his headquarter has been captured, So he decided to, on
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: a very daring plan, he decided to leave the main
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: force of the two troops in the Qi territory, continue
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: to pacify the Qi territory, while he lead 30,000 elite
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: cavalry forces to rush back.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: And these are actually like nomadic, like auxiliary troops, right?
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so these are nomadic, no fun, from the tribes
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: of Lofan. Lofan used to be, they lived north of
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: the Zhao state. They got incorporated by the Zhao state,
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: by the king, Zhao Wulin of Zhao. And so they
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: had served as the Zhao Calvary for a long time,
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: until Zhao state was annexed by State of Qin. And
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: State of Qin incorporated this nomadic cavalry into their own
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: frontier troops along the Great Wall. It was commanded first
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: by Meng Tian with Prince Fushu. And later when those
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: two were killed, the frontier troop got taken by General
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: Wang Li. Wang Li took those Great Wall frontier troops
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: into the Battle of Juelu where he was defeated decisively
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: by Xiang. So Xiang got the inheritance these nomadic troops
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: 30 000 and unlike the other surrender ching troops that
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: he had killed third these he recognized the value of
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: these nomad troops and so he kept them you know
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: well paid and this is probably why he uh was
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: allowing his troops to plunder and kill us i'm guessing
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: that's probably how he paid his shoe right like yeah
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: and and and so So with this 30,000 nomad calvary,
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: Xiang Yu decided to go through the difficult part of
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: the mountain, cut through the mountain pass and attack where
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: Liu Bang was least defended, lightly defended. But still, at
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: this time, Niu Guang may not have all 560,000 troops
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: in one place, but there are still large numbers spread
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: all over the place. And Xiang Yu took this unexpected route,
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: cutting through the mountains. They were moving very quickly because
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: there are horses. And they caught Niu Guang's defender on
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: the west side by surprise. Nobody expected Xiang Yu to
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: come through that side. Because Fang Kuai is in the
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: northeast direction blocking his advance. And then Xiang Yu strikes south.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: So Peng Chen is to the east. So Xiang Yu
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: strikes west. He went around. He strikes west where nobody
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: expected him to come in. And he strikes west and
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: strikes south. where there's least amount of troops. So he was,
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: while the, at this time, most of the Han troops,
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: they were inside the Pengcheng city party and his allies,
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: Liu Bang's allies were outside the city, you know, also
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: waiting to get their share of the spoil. Shang Yu's 30,000
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: cavalry you know, magically appeared one morning and surprised everyone.
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: Nobody expected them coming and there was a great chaos.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: So when Niu Bang, by noon, when Niu Bang organized
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: his troops, Han troops inside the city to come out
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: and meet Xiang Yu's troops, it was already too late
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: because all his allies out of the city they have
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: been routed and they're routed such disorderly route. Those retreating
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: troops are trampling over the Han troops are trying to
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: go out to beat the Chu troops.
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: The size of the army is actually working against him
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: at this stage.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: Yes. And it was an unmitigated disaster for the Han side.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: Liubang was barely able to make his escape. So there
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: were two rivers around the area and the army were
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: retreating away from the two advance. They're retreating east because
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: the two troops are striking west. and they had to
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: cross those two rivers and every side of each river
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: is a great slaughter. So much so that the body
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: of Han Chu still blocked the river flow. And so
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: the other deserters were running across the river on the
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: body of their comrades. And then the Chu Calvary did
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: not let up, but continually chased Liu Bang. And Liu
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: Bang now, he made him strike south and he's trying
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: to escape west. He's trying to run back to his
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: hometown to pick up his wife and kids and his father.
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: And the Chu troops caught them again on another river.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: And again, it's another great slaughter that the Han troops'
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: body fill up the river again. So just when it
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: looks like Liu Bang was finished, heaven saved him. There
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: was a great sandstorm on the Northwest that blew directly
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: in the path of Shang Yu's armies. So in the sandstorm,
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: Liu Bang was able to escape with several tens of riders.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: And when they made it to the hometown, They find
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: that everybody already fled. But he was able to find
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: his son and daughter through his wife. So he took
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: them on his carriage. You know, his old buddy Xia
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: Houyin is a driver. So they're trying to make their escape.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: But the two troops, after the storm subsided, the two
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: troops started to gang up on them, right? And they're
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: on horses. These guys are on carriages. There's a different
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: weight ratio. So Liu Bang was getting desperate. So he
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: just tried to kick his son and daughter off the
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: carriage to reduce the weight. But Xia Houyin would not
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: have it. Xia Houyin is the guy who literally took
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: a sword for Liu Bang because when they were forking around,
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: Xia Houyin got cut. And when people reported Liu Bang,
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: Xia Houyin denied it and actually had to go to
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: jail for a year for bearing false ceremony. But Xia
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: Houyin would not let Liu Bang abandon his own children.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: So every time... But Liu Bang would not give up.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: He would keep on throwing his kids off the carriage.
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: He did it like three or four times. And every
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: time Xia Hou... In Liu.
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: Bang's defense, he has many kids by this point. It's true.
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: He has many kids and many women.
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: These are his.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: Heir, because these are the kids of his wife. But
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: they are very valuable for his wife and his wife's family.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: But you're right, for Liu Bang, he has a lot
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: of replacement kids. So Liu Bang was kicking his son
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: and daughter off the carriage every time Xia Hou Yi
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: would jump down and pull them back. At one point,
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: Liu Bang got really desperate. He pulled the sword on
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: Xia Hou. He's like, stop doing that. We're all going
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: to get captured. But Xia Hou would not give up.
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: And luckily, somehow they were able to get away. And
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: for this, Xia Hou even had the eternal gratitude of
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: Liu Bang's wife and Liu Bang's wife's family. And also
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: Liu Bang's son. When Liu Bang's son Liu Ying became
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: the second Han emperor, Liu Ying had a huge mansion
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: constructed next to the palace. And he named that mansion Jingguo,
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: which literally means close to me. And he put Xia
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: Hou Ying there. Xia Hou Ying saved his life multiple
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: times when his father tried to abandon him.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: Now, more seriously, in defense of Liu Bang in a way,
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: he can reasonably expect that his children by his first
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: wife are not going to be harmed by Xiang Yu
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: if he is still alive and at large, right? Because
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: then they are political bargaining chips. But if he is
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: captured and then basically his whole clan is like forfeit.
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: That's actually a very good point because Xiang Yu did
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: capture Liu Bang's father and his wife and they were
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: working out hostage. And in fact, I think it's during
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: this couple years of captivity is when Liu Bang's wife
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: starts shacking up with the guy, with Liu Bang's friend
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: who Liu Bang entrusted to take care of her and
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: her family. But I understand because she Given what Liu
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: Bang was trying to do to her kids. And at
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: that time, Liu Bang didn't really care. He had many women,
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: as you say. But anyway, so Liu Bang was able to,
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: they ran all the way to the city of Xinyang.
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: finally Zhang Liang was able to gather enough like enough
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: retreating Han troops to make a last stand at Xinyang
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: and they were able to stop the two the two
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: advances and now also Xinyang was the old imperial Qin
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: dynasty granary. So it's very well defended. It's a city
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: that Liu Bang was never able to take. So it
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: has very formidable fortifications. So that's where the Liu Bang
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: finally held the line. And this is when Xiao He,
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: his logistic guy, was able to just like mobilize another
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: huge army for it. Basically concluded everybody that can be
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: recruited of military age and sent to the front to Xinyang.
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: And so finally, Liu Bang was able to kind of
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: stop the loss. And at this point, Xiang Yu kind
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: of established himself as like the military genius of the time.
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: He did this like twice at the like the, you know,
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: first at battle, yeah. And then now the battle of Pengcheng,
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: he used only 30 bouts of Calvary to defeat Liu
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: Meng's like half million troops. You know, he's, he's the, yeah,
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: like as you say, he's like the first recorded Chinese,
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: first Chinese general in the recorded history to use like
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: the blitzkrieg tactic, the very fast Calvary tactics. movement. And he,
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: but Xiang Yu may have won the battle though, but
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: he's going to lose the war eventually because a lot
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: of the character flaws that we talked about, he turned
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: away people like Chen Ping, right, who have provided valuable
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: help for him just because he was angry at Chen.
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: You know, it wasn't really Chen Ping's fault that the
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: guy Chen Ping subjugated turned around and defected again. and
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: and then also he was dismembering wang min's mom's body.
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: This yeah we will see i think probably in the
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: next episode that even the closest military comrades of xiangyu
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: people you would expect to be very loyal to him
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: at this point they are like not so loyal right
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: they have kind of looking at the circumstances and are like,
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: you know, considering their options. But I think we won't
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: be able to get to a Ying Bu situation.
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: I'll put, I'll do a little preview. So right now,
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: the situation is still looking pretty bad by Liu Bang. Like,
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: this is a huge defeat. And all the former other
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: kings that previously allied with Liu Bang now have all
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: abandoned him, right? Chen Yuyi found out that the head
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: of Zhang Le was a fake Zhang Le.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: So he does figure it out at some point. It's
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: not like a constant gag.
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: So Chen Li figured it out. He turned his back
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: on Liu Bang. The other kings, the three kings of
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: Qin Zhang Han was still being besieged by Tang Xin
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: at this point. But the other two kings, Dong Yin
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: and Sima Xin, who previously surrendered to Liu Bang, they
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: had defected again to Xiang Yu because everybody wanted to
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: pick a winner. Xiang Yu looks like the biggest winner.
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: The king of Yin, Si Ma Wang, the guy that
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: Chen Ping got blamed for, also defected back to the
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: state of Chu, to Xiang Yu. Everybody now is switching
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: sides to And even the king... Everyone east of Guanzhong basically.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: Everyone east of Luoyang basically.
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: So Liu Bang at this point still controls Sichuan, obviously.
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: And he still controls the land of Qin, formerly Qin.
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: Except that one city that Zhang Han is still holding out.
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: And he still controlled the Luo Yang base, the Zhou
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: dynasty royal domain. So he's keeping Xiang Yu east of that.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: But everything else, all the land north of the Yellow River,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: they're all gone. All these kings have switched their allegiance.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: Now Zhang Liang offered him advice that kind of stopped
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: the loss. He said, send the envoy to Ying Bu,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: the king of Zhejiang, tell him, get him to rebel
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: against Xiang Yu. And that is one advice I will
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: kind of change the whole game. And Ying Bu was
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: Xiang Yu's kind of most trusted general, but Ying Bu
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: wasn't really like the core person He wasn't like the
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: Shang family follower from the beginning. He was an independent
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: rebel that joined Xiang Liang's forces because at that time,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: all the rebel forces were together. And when Xiang Liang
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: got killed, Ying Bu joined Xiang Yu because Xiang Yu
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: killed Song Yi. But Ying Bu was trusted by Xiang
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: Yu during the battle with Li Lv to break the
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: supply lines of Zangshan. That's totally changed the battle. And
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: Yibo is always the guy to send to do all
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: the hard, dirty work for Jiang, including killing the righteous emperor.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think what we mentioned is that it's, I
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: think we forgot to mention this, it's during Liu Bang's
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: march east, he gets the news that the former Chu
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: king slash righteous emperor was killed, right? And this, yeah,
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: and this is, in fact, some old guy, like, kind
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: of reproaches him.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: He's like, you know, why aren't you mentioning this?
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: And Liu Bang seizes the political opportunity. He, like, cries
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: very sincerely, or at least looks that way to everyone.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: He tore his clothes and he cried profusely and he
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: put up a huge funeral, a memorial service for the
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: king a while or two. And said, you know, like,
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: how dare Shangri-La, you know, win against the ruler of
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: all under heaven. Like, I will take revenge for him.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: And this is the banner upon which he rallied all
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: the other kings against Shangri-La. And mostly at that time,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: the people who joined him either got overwrought by his
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: military strength or because they had the grudge against Shangri-La's defeat. Right.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: And at that time, it seems like everybody was on
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: Liu Bang's side. And what Zhang Liang noticed is, you know,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: during that time, Shang Yu did order King of Zhejiang,
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: Ying Bu, to send him reinforcement to the state of
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: Qi because Shang Yu was having trouble pacifying the land
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: at Qi. So he wanted Ying Bu to come lead
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: his forces to join him. But Ying Bu instead just
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: sent a few thousand troops with some generals. And this
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: is the rift between these two that Zhang Liang knows.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: And this is because Ying Bu, his incentive has changed now.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: Before he was, when he was a rebel, his goal
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: was to be a king, right? His prophecy was first
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: he would get tattooed on his face and then he
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: would become king. And so When he had fulfilled his prophecy,
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: he's like, I'm all good. I'm king now. And at
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: this time, Xiang Yiming is giving him responsibilities, but no
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: additional rewards, right? What more can he give Yingfu? Yingfu
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: is already a king. And even if Xiang Yiming leads
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: his army to State of Qi, State of Qi is
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: very far from the land of Yingfu. Ying Fu's land
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: is far to the south. So even if Xiang Yu
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: are able to incorporate State of Qi, it's to add
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: to Xiang Yu's own domain. Ying Fu does not benefit
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: from this. So from Ying Fu's point of view, he
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: already fulfilled his obligation to Xiang Yu previously by acting
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: like a spearhead at the Battle of Qilu, doing the
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: dirty work for him, killing the righteous Ying Fu. the
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: king prior to. For him, he feel his king title
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: is what is earth, right? And also the Jiujiang Commandery,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: the land that was given him to assist beef. This
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: was a land of control by his father-in-law, Wu Wei.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: His father-in-law, Wu Wei, was the chief governor of the
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: Jiujiang Commandery. So, so, so, so, so, Xiao Yu didn't
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: actually give Ding Fu something new. He was kind of recognizing,
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: just covering, legitimizing him in the land that him and
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: his father-in-law already controlled. Right? And so this is why
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: Ding Fu, although he seems to be like, should be
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: a loyal Xiao Yu follower, but not really. Not really.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: He felt like he already put his, he already put
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: his work to become king, why is he demanding him
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: to do more, right?
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: I guess the work, I mean, Mo's also, his killing
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: of the true emperor is not something he can really
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: brag about as well.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: It's not so, right?
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: It's like he can't really go back. It's difficult to
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: go back and say, hey, I deserve more, you know,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: off this guy, right? That we were all, in theory,
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: loyal to on your behalf, right?
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: So... Yeah. Yeah. So, so anyway, so, so, so, um, but,
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: but Yim Bu's rebellion against Xiang Yu, just like earlier,
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: the Tian Zhong's rebellion stated she is going to throw
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: another wrench into Xiang Yu's plan. So Xiang Yu had
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: to kind of call off his expedition against the Obama.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: By the way, this is, turns out to be a
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: strategic mistake for, for Xiang Yu. Because Xiang Yu, at
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: this time, Liu Bang was greatly weakened. Xiang Yu should
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: have pursued his advantage. This is why, um, when, uh,
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: during the Chinese Civil War in 1949, when the people,
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: Mao ordered the People's Liberation Army to cross the Yangtze
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: River to take the, take the, uh, nationalist capital, Nanjing,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: and take Shanghai. Mao famously wrote a poem. He said, uh, uh,
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: Do not learn to be like the hegemon king of Chu.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: Don't learn to be like Xiang Yu. When you are momentum,
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: pursue the momentum, keep the momentum going. Pursue your defeated enemy.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: Because this was what Mao saw rightly. This chance for
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: Xiang Yu to wipe out his arrival to Ubon once
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: for all. And because he stopped short, and this gave
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: Ubon the breather to come back, which we will cover
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: in our next episode, how Ubon returned to the reverse side.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, look forward to it.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: Any other questions or comments? No, that should be it.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: I look forward to the next episode. Thanks everyone for listening.
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: Until next time. Bye-bye.