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Feminist Movie Friday: The Janes · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha dolcome to Stephane. Never
0:08
Speaker 1: told your protection of iHeart Radio, and welcome to another
0:19
Speaker 1: feminus movie Friday. I feel like I have to dance.
0:24
Speaker 1: I don't know why I have to try to add jingles.
0:26
Speaker 1: I love it. You were always trying to add some flair.
0:31
Speaker 1: That's my contribution, okay, flair apparently. Well, today's feminous movie
0:38
Speaker 1: Friday is actually a documentary, and it is the HBO
0:43
Speaker 1: documentary The James, which has just been released on HBO
0:46
Speaker 1: Max this year. Might as well go ahead and let
0:49
Speaker 1: you know. I think it's pretty obvious. I don't know
0:51
Speaker 1: if you if you don't know about the Jeans, I
0:53
Speaker 1: guess this is about abortion, and this is about the
0:56
Speaker 1: nineteen sixties pre Rob Wade uh group Flandestine group called
1:01
Speaker 1: the James, which we're going to talk about in a
1:03
Speaker 1: little bit, which we've talked about previously, and I believe
1:06
Speaker 1: Bridget interviewed one of the members original members of the
1:09
Speaker 1: Jains a while ago. As well, go ahead and put
1:11
Speaker 1: that content warning, we're gonna talk a little bit like
1:13
Speaker 1: we're just gonna briefly mention is this is a a sexual
1:16
Speaker 1: abuse or are rape as well? As um, you know,
1:21
Speaker 1: just trauma with this type of time. This timing I
1:27
Speaker 1: guess in the sixties seventies not friendly to women. I
1:31
Speaker 1: can't really say that it's too friendly now, can we. Yeah?
1:35
Speaker 1: And actually I would add like, because I watched it
1:37
Speaker 1: last night, it is upsetting in terms of what's going
1:42
Speaker 1: on now because you kind of hear like it's very
1:45
Speaker 1: inspiring and hopeful at the end, but then now you're
1:48
Speaker 1: kind of like, well, I mean not to downplay what
1:53
Speaker 1: they did, but just in the climate we're in, it
1:57
Speaker 1: was kind of like, oh wow, right right, and we
2:01
Speaker 1: d dubbs. This was an award winning film. I think
2:05
Speaker 1: they won the Cleveland International Film Festival as well as uh,
2:09
Speaker 1: they were winners of the Film Festival in d C.
2:12
Speaker 1: And they were nominated for the Sundance Film Festival and
2:15
Speaker 1: got some accolades there. And I believe there's talks of
2:19
Speaker 1: putting their name in for the Oscar contender. Um, so yeah,
2:23
Speaker 1: it's definitely getting hit some big ways. It's right now
2:26
Speaker 1: the reviewers portion of Rotten Tomatoes is that a hundred percent? Still, Um,
2:31
Speaker 1: it's very interesting. She should go read some of the reviews. Um.
2:35
Speaker 1: It was directed by documentarians at Tlsson and m A.
2:39
Speaker 1: Pill Days, And I really hope I've said this correctly.
2:43
Speaker 1: Their nate last names. Someone let me know how to
2:46
Speaker 1: say it because I couldn't find it on the interwebs.
2:49
Speaker 1: Um and they're both award nominated directors as well. So
2:52
Speaker 1: no straighter to the Games. And the idea of this
2:55
Speaker 1: documentary actually began in twenty sixteen. Win pil Days and
2:58
Speaker 1: her brother Daniel Arcade watched as a tramp came into
3:02
Speaker 1: office UM and started worrying about the fate of the
3:05
Speaker 1: Supreme Court. Right, so I believe we all were, which
3:09
Speaker 1: is why we were all crying with the stories of
3:12
Speaker 1: their mother, who was a Judith Arcana, who was actually
3:15
Speaker 1: featured throughout the movie as well, and her experience with
3:18
Speaker 1: the James Or otherwise known as the Abortion Counseling Services
3:23
Speaker 1: of Women's Liberation, which was an underground group started in
3:26
Speaker 1: the late sixties in Chicago, and they've been kind of
3:31
Speaker 1: coming back out. I know, they had a document, they
3:33
Speaker 1: had a movie. Recently they had a another base movie
3:37
Speaker 1: and then articles coming out in a book written about them.
3:40
Speaker 1: So even though they've been talked about, it's still not
3:44
Speaker 1: really well known and hopefully that's changing quickly. Um bt debs.
3:48
Speaker 1: I did do an episode with Margaret Coljoy about the
3:51
Speaker 1: Jains and and she was able to give me a
3:53
Speaker 1: lot of great information that I didn't know. Also, so
3:56
Speaker 1: if you want to check that out, you should. God,
3:58
Speaker 1: we've talked about that episode a lot, haven't we. If
4:01
Speaker 1: people haven't checked it out, then they should go check
4:03
Speaker 1: it out. Yeah. Uh So Appialties and Lesson began that
4:07
Speaker 1: work in on the documentary in twenty nineteen. Um And
4:10
Speaker 1: the way that documentary plays out, it has no narrators,
4:13
Speaker 1: so it's just told in kind of a historical perspective,
4:18
Speaker 1: throwbacks and look backs on what has happened from the
4:21
Speaker 1: people who were there, on people who were part of
4:24
Speaker 1: the organization and or may have busted the organization. But
4:28
Speaker 1: it is a straightforward oral recount of the experiences of
4:32
Speaker 1: some of the Jains and the history of that time
4:34
Speaker 1: in Chicago and the United States, years before Roe v.
4:39
Speaker 1: Wade was seen in the Supreme Court. Right, So the
4:44
Speaker 1: documentary starts with the experience of Dorry Baron, who had
4:47
Speaker 1: an illegal and very dangerous abortion through the mafia, being
4:51
Speaker 1: able to only afford the cheapest option for a procedure.
4:55
Speaker 1: She and another young lady were left in the bathtub
4:57
Speaker 1: bleeding after the procedure was complete. Eat Baron talks about
5:01
Speaker 1: her experience of trying to leave when she was finally
5:03
Speaker 1: able to stand and get a ride back home, and
5:06
Speaker 1: it was quite a heroin. Yeah, that's how it begins
5:10
Speaker 1: before the credits. Yes. We then meet some of the
5:13
Speaker 1: James Judith Arcana, Sheila Kate, Martha Scott, Eleanor, Oliver, Laura Kaplan,
5:19
Speaker 1: Heather Booth, Reverend Patricia Novak, Ray Peaches, Abby, Eileen, Diane Stevens,
5:25
Speaker 1: Jean and Marie Leaner, the only black woman in the James,
5:29
Speaker 1: and some of their names were hard to find right
5:32
Speaker 1: so and in the documentary they only say their first name,
5:34
Speaker 1: so I assume that's their choice, so we kept it
5:37
Speaker 1: with first names only. Yes, Yes, And throughout the film
5:40
Speaker 1: we also get to see the n interview with leaders
5:44
Speaker 1: Ruth Sergal and Jodie Parsons, who have both died since then.
5:47
Speaker 1: The nine interviews were given by filmmaker Dorothy Fatiman, who
5:52
Speaker 1: has made several films and documentaries about abortion rights and advocacy.
5:56
Speaker 1: And I'm also hope I'm pronouncing your name correctly right. So,
6:00
Speaker 1: as we meet the different women of the James, each
6:02
Speaker 1: tale of their own history and activism, whether it was
6:04
Speaker 1: through the civil rights movement or the anti war movement,
6:07
Speaker 1: and how they came into their own fight. They also
6:09
Speaker 1: talked about their own issues. Many of them had illegal
6:12
Speaker 1: abortions as well, or known someone or was somewhat proximity
6:16
Speaker 1: to see the dangers of why they needed safe abortion access,
6:20
Speaker 1: and it kind of really pushed them into this fight.
6:23
Speaker 1: But they were already fighters. They were ready, um And
6:25
Speaker 1: as I had, the Booth states quote, I learned that
6:27
Speaker 1: sometimes you have to stand up to illegitimate authority, and
6:31
Speaker 1: I feel like that could be said today. And in
6:33
Speaker 1: her first experience with abortions and women's issues, Booth talks
6:36
Speaker 1: about her experience and helping a friend who needed an
6:39
Speaker 1: abortion after being raped at the knife point, And in
6:41
Speaker 1: the documentary she talks about Dr Theodore Howard, who was
6:44
Speaker 1: a civil rights activist UM who had moved to Chicago
6:47
Speaker 1: after being threatened by the clan, and through her she
6:51
Speaker 1: was able to connect a few women with Dr Howard
6:54
Speaker 1: until he was arrested for the abortion and it was
6:58
Speaker 1: actually plastered in the newspaper and As we continue in
7:01
Speaker 1: the documentary, we get a history of the septic abortion
7:05
Speaker 1: ward in Cook County Hospital in Chicago. Dr Allen Wyland
7:09
Speaker 1: at the O B g y N at the time
7:11
Speaker 1: and Nurse Kathleen Kennedy talk about the tragedies of these
7:14
Speaker 1: illegal abortions that killed so many women and why they
7:18
Speaker 1: needed that a ward in the first place, right m
7:22
Speaker 1: And then we meet the man known as Mike, who
7:24
Speaker 1: for a while had not been known. This was certainly
7:27
Speaker 1: news to me, this whole part who had been taught
7:29
Speaker 1: by a surgeon um how to perform abortions and would
7:34
Speaker 1: later become the abortionist for the Jains at the time
7:37
Speaker 1: thought he was a doctor. And there's kind of a
7:39
Speaker 1: funny and disturbing quote where they're like, but didn't you
7:41
Speaker 1: go by Dr Mike And he was like, oh, yeah,
7:45
Speaker 1: he called him. He went by Dr Kathleen. They asked
7:48
Speaker 1: him that again, I went by Dr Kaplin and he
7:50
Speaker 1: was like, They were like, well, but he was very nonchalant.
7:55
Speaker 1: He was talking about how he was making so much
7:57
Speaker 1: money doing this, more so than he was his regular
8:00
Speaker 1: job as a construction worker, which was way harder. He said, Yes,
8:05
Speaker 1: a lot of the men who were in it. I
8:08
Speaker 1: was like, do you realize what you're a bart of here?
8:10
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I really was like, did they know
8:15
Speaker 1: what kind of documentary they are coming up there? Like
8:17
Speaker 1: were they aware? Because I feel like it's just coulda
8:19
Speaker 1: be a gotcha type of documentary which I don't know,
8:23
Speaker 1: but also all trivia about Mike, so he went by Mike.
8:27
Speaker 1: We don't know his name. For the longest time, they
8:30
Speaker 1: didn't know who he was. And when I was on
8:33
Speaker 1: this other podcast with Margaret Killjoy, the way it was
8:36
Speaker 1: he was described by some of the women some of
8:38
Speaker 1: the James was he was just a handsome man that
8:41
Speaker 1: that was known as Mike, and he was very tall
8:43
Speaker 1: and they all had to look up to him, so
8:45
Speaker 1: we had nicknamed him handsome or sexy Mike. And then
8:49
Speaker 1: having this revel I immediately had to go text them
8:51
Speaker 1: like do you need to go watch this now? Yeah?
8:57
Speaker 1: Oh dear okay. As the James continued, they became very
9:01
Speaker 1: aware of the Red Squad, a group of undercover cops
9:04
Speaker 1: who would watch revolutionists and radicals, civil rights activists, anti
9:08
Speaker 1: war activists, and women's rights activists, etcetera. Um, And we
9:12
Speaker 1: get to meet a homicide detective Sergeant Ted O'Connor, who
9:15
Speaker 1: was part of the police who had arrested the James.
9:17
Speaker 1: He was someone else where. I was kind of like,
9:19
Speaker 1: are you yeah, do you know what? Okay? But you
9:22
Speaker 1: know what, I feel like he's part of the population
9:24
Speaker 1: who really feels like they don't care about this issue
9:27
Speaker 1: and why we're talking about it. Yeah. He was kind
9:29
Speaker 1: of just like, that was woman's face. Why are we
9:31
Speaker 1: talking about this? I think you're right. As the radicals
9:34
Speaker 1: were in the streets clashing with police during an anti
9:37
Speaker 1: war movement, the James moved forward and fighting for the
9:39
Speaker 1: rights for everybody, but didn't seem welcomed in the movement
9:42
Speaker 1: as it was driven by men and men only with
9:45
Speaker 1: a misogynistic and patriarchal attitude towards the movement right, which
9:50
Speaker 1: pushed the ladies to start their own. Realizing that women
9:54
Speaker 1: were not seeing as equals but servants for these other movements, uh,
9:58
Speaker 1: they moved on as Arcanda's husband Uh. Judith Darcana, who
10:01
Speaker 1: was a radical lawyers or an activist and had worked
10:04
Speaker 1: with civil rights activists as well, says that they had
10:08
Speaker 1: quote no interest in women's rights. That was not a
10:10
Speaker 1: part of the deal. And I thought that was an
10:12
Speaker 1: interesting quote. I'm glad to know that he admitted it.
10:15
Speaker 1: Though he supported it, but admitted he didn't care. So
10:19
Speaker 1: the women there started the Chicago Women's Liberation Movement and
10:23
Speaker 1: soon soon pushed to have abortion and reproductive right as
10:26
Speaker 1: a focus for the James um and speaking about her experience, Eleanor,
10:31
Speaker 1: one of the James, spoke about one of the risks
10:33
Speaker 1: of having an abortion being possibly sexually assaulted, which happened often.
10:39
Speaker 1: Like the stories they would tell about the fact that
10:42
Speaker 1: they would have to repay men in sexual favors as
10:45
Speaker 1: well a lot of money was absurd. Even again, doctor Mike,
10:50
Speaker 1: who was not a doctor, a k a. Sexy Mike
10:52
Speaker 1: as we called him, admitted to that he was like,
10:54
Speaker 1: you know, I was much kinder, and he was apparently
10:57
Speaker 1: he was able to teach in a gentleness and kindness.
10:59
Speaker 1: Whoever the surgeon was taught him that women are are
11:02
Speaker 1: human uh and need to be treated with care. That
11:05
Speaker 1: he was like, at least I wasn't doing this that. Yes,
11:08
Speaker 1: I was to give five hundred dollars for an abortion,
11:10
Speaker 1: which was fairly cheap technically, but most people can't afford that,
11:15
Speaker 1: especially at that during time and for a lot of
11:19
Speaker 1: the people who don't have money to this, this is
11:21
Speaker 1: not accessible. All that to say, he even admitted, yeah,
11:27
Speaker 1: like I would, It was better me doing it, who
11:29
Speaker 1: was nice and kind and gentle, versus the men who
11:32
Speaker 1: would literally be like, you have to do these sexual
11:34
Speaker 1: favors for me as you're in pain before I do
11:37
Speaker 1: anything else, or you can leave. Um. It was really
11:40
Speaker 1: really disturbing, to say the least. But then we finally
11:43
Speaker 1: see the beginning of the Jains coming together. Booth continued
11:47
Speaker 1: in helping women at the colleges and Need for Abortion,
11:50
Speaker 1: and there she connected it with several other young ladies,
11:53
Speaker 1: including Eleanor who we talked about, and Jodi, who was
11:56
Speaker 1: one of those founders as well, who all gathered at
12:00
Speaker 1: Lenoor's home to talk about the logistics of the group,
12:02
Speaker 1: and then they quote got down to business. First, they
12:05
Speaker 1: had ads and numbers on the walls, and then they
12:07
Speaker 1: set up the phone with a pseudonym for Jane, and
12:10
Speaker 1: their group was inundated with calls for help, including a
12:14
Speaker 1: police officer saying, please don't be alarmed if they say
12:17
Speaker 1: Chicago police, this is my work, but I really need help. Yes, yes,
12:22
Speaker 1: and they were meticulous in their record keeping and even
12:25
Speaker 1: had some of those cards today with the names and
12:29
Speaker 1: numbers and how much they could pay. And it wasn't
12:32
Speaker 1: just the information they needed, but the ability to be
12:34
Speaker 1: compassionate and caring for the women who were often scared
12:37
Speaker 1: and desperate. I mean, think about it if you're like
12:38
Speaker 1: pursuing this avenue. That said something. Baron, who had previously
12:44
Speaker 1: talked about her first abortion, spoke about how different the
12:46
Speaker 1: experience was with the Jains, that the kindness and caring
12:50
Speaker 1: from them made such an impact on her, especially growing
12:53
Speaker 1: up in an abusive Catholic school system. The Jains were
12:56
Speaker 1: organized and treated their operation as if it were a
12:59
Speaker 1: spy at work, starting with the ride, which was when
13:03
Speaker 1: one of the Jains would pick up the young lady
13:05
Speaker 1: from a specific location and drive them like they were
13:07
Speaker 1: being followed, first to the front, which was a place
13:11
Speaker 1: where they offered counseling and details of the procedure and
13:14
Speaker 1: even had refreshments for the person question um, and then
13:17
Speaker 1: they were driven to the place, which is where the
13:20
Speaker 1: abortions would take place. Yes, I really did like the names.
13:24
Speaker 1: They were just very upfront about it. But yeah, the
13:27
Speaker 1: talking about how they set it up was pretty official. Um,
13:30
Speaker 1: even on how they picked up medications and supplies, there
13:34
Speaker 1: was very Yeah, this is a spy movie for sure.
13:52
Speaker 1: So we have a Mike who had been the one
13:53
Speaker 1: to provide the abortions. He soon left the practice. By
13:56
Speaker 1: the way, he had been discovered to not be a doctor,
13:58
Speaker 1: so that might have been a plart in the place
14:01
Speaker 1: in this whole thing, But he said he was just tired,
14:02
Speaker 1: So I don't know. There was another conspiracy that the
14:05
Speaker 1: mob was coming after him, because again the mob kind
14:08
Speaker 1: of had a franchise over this, so they were threatening him.
14:11
Speaker 1: So he was like this is too hot, I gotta go. Um.
14:14
Speaker 1: But he did teach some of the James how to
14:17
Speaker 1: do the abortions themselves, so when they discovered that he
14:19
Speaker 1: was doing them, he's not a doctor, why can't we
14:22
Speaker 1: do this? Uh, we're more gentle, we know how how
14:24
Speaker 1: our bodies work. Teach us. Again, some of the group
14:27
Speaker 1: did leave because they were not comfortable with all of that,
14:31
Speaker 1: but many of them continued on. And now then you
14:34
Speaker 1: had to due to the procedures themselves. At one point
14:37
Speaker 1: they take out some of the equipment to try to
14:39
Speaker 1: remember how they did it. It was unsettling, a little
14:43
Speaker 1: bit un settling, but they were able to charge even
14:47
Speaker 1: less because they were able to do it and sometimes
14:49
Speaker 1: be able to do it for free if they needed to,
14:52
Speaker 1: So it actually helped out in providing uh more affordable care.
14:57
Speaker 1: So they continued their practice, getting better and better and
14:59
Speaker 1: still under the radar. And during this time, by the way,
15:02
Speaker 1: the issue of abortion rights was a huge topic all
15:04
Speaker 1: over the country, and New York soon legalized abortions themselves,
15:09
Speaker 1: and that's when the James kind of noticed that they
15:10
Speaker 1: had less affluent and middle class women as they were
15:13
Speaker 1: tried now flying to New York to get these procedures done,
15:16
Speaker 1: and more impoverished people of the population had to go
15:19
Speaker 1: to them. Um Even at one point, uh the Marie,
15:23
Speaker 1: who was the only black member of the James was like, yeah,
15:26
Speaker 1: the the demographics change, the color of the skin of
15:29
Speaker 1: the people changed, which is saying a lot. But it
15:32
Speaker 1: was also interesting during this time how the Catholic Church
15:36
Speaker 1: was spotlighted and then they showed that they they had
15:39
Speaker 1: a kind of a drift as one diocese or a
15:42
Speaker 1: group of reverends created their own um standing and say
15:46
Speaker 1: they supported women's rights and helped fund many of the
15:49
Speaker 1: women to get the procedure so they would be sent
15:52
Speaker 1: to New York. Previously it would be Mexico and outside
15:55
Speaker 1: of the country to get the procedures done. Um. So
15:58
Speaker 1: it was interesting to see the on a part of
16:00
Speaker 1: this narrative as well. As they continued, they did finally
16:04
Speaker 1: get caught after an upset family member of one of
16:06
Speaker 1: the women seeking out an abortion called the police in Chicago.
16:10
Speaker 1: Homicide police busted into the place and arrested seven of
16:13
Speaker 1: the James, including Judith, Sheila Peaches, Jeane, Martha Diane, with
16:18
Speaker 1: the possibility of being in prison for one hundred and
16:20
Speaker 1: ten years. Yeah, I believe it's like eleven counts of
16:24
Speaker 1: aiding and providing abortion. And after going through several bad
16:28
Speaker 1: options for a defense attorney, Marie was able to bring
16:31
Speaker 1: in joe Anne Wolfson, who had worked with the Black
16:34
Speaker 1: Panther trials, and with her help, they were able to
16:37
Speaker 1: stall until the upholding of Roe V. Wade, at which
16:41
Speaker 1: time she asked for the charges to be dismissed, which
16:43
Speaker 1: is one of my favorite parts where she was like
16:45
Speaker 1: just putting it off. No, everybody was kind of like
16:50
Speaker 1: it was really smart. The way she played um at
16:52
Speaker 1: first she said no because she didn't like hippies. This
16:54
Speaker 1: is what she said. She seemed like a character, uh,
16:58
Speaker 1: the way they described her, I could see her being
17:01
Speaker 1: like my aunt who was no nonsense, gives no tells
17:06
Speaker 1: you like it is moving on like smoking a pack
17:09
Speaker 1: of day roughly like just making sure you understand where
17:14
Speaker 1: she's coming from. And most likely she was right like
17:17
Speaker 1: all of those ways. Right. Um. Of course we do
17:22
Speaker 1: want to talk about the ending. We'll kind of talk
17:23
Speaker 1: about this in the teams as well. It does end
17:25
Speaker 1: with a hopeful note. Um, but I think there's a
17:28
Speaker 1: lot to be said. Uh, and we're gonna come back
17:31
Speaker 1: to it, which is why I want to pause on that. Um.
17:34
Speaker 1: I will say, even though I love that that the
17:37
Speaker 1: directors decided to end on a hopeful note. Even they
17:40
Speaker 1: are though when they started this project, Brett Kavanaugh had
17:44
Speaker 1: been sworn in and they thought it was looking very
17:47
Speaker 1: bleak and was kind of preparing I think as a
17:51
Speaker 1: cautionary tell but moving on. So yeah, that was the movie. UM,
17:57
Speaker 1: if you haven't seen it, you should absolutely watch it.
17:59
Speaker 1: I think it's um a lot to know that things
18:03
Speaker 1: will change and we're gonna talk about the future. Perspectives,
18:06
Speaker 1: and we've already kind of talked about how it has changed,
18:08
Speaker 1: and we need to make sure that we are having
18:10
Speaker 1: this conversation. Actually, within this time of them doing these procedures,
18:16
Speaker 1: new procedures were coming out that was even more safe.
18:19
Speaker 1: They were able to obtain that as well, and we
18:21
Speaker 1: don't talk about that much because we don't talk about
18:23
Speaker 1: what they do. Obviously, a DNA has been what they
18:27
Speaker 1: were showing as with all the scraping and all of that,
18:30
Speaker 1: but there were other tools that came later on that
18:33
Speaker 1: kind of revolutionized and kept women even more safe. Um.
18:37
Speaker 1: So you know, things have changed and we want to
18:40
Speaker 1: acknowledge that. But yeah, so you know, there's a lot
18:43
Speaker 1: of obviousness because it is a documentary of what they're
18:47
Speaker 1: trying to say in this film. But let's yeah, let's
18:49
Speaker 1: go over the themes a little bit. Obviously, one of
18:51
Speaker 1: the themes illegal abortions or the death of women, um
18:55
Speaker 1: and the women doing whatever they needed to out of desperation.
18:59
Speaker 1: And you know, there was several I believe who came
19:02
Speaker 1: out and told their story finally, but it took a
19:06
Speaker 1: lot to get to get the story out. Yeah. Yeah,
19:11
Speaker 1: and I we've had a lot of conversations about this,
19:13
Speaker 1: obviously based on what's going on and how you know,
19:15
Speaker 1: the conversation is kind of shifted away from like this
19:19
Speaker 1: sort of back alley hanger type of abortion to what
19:23
Speaker 1: is happening now. But this was like even though I've
19:27
Speaker 1: heard about this, read about this, we have done an
19:29
Speaker 1: episode about it, Bridget did, and uh, we'll probably rerun
19:33
Speaker 1: that one soon. Um, it was still like like the
19:39
Speaker 1: fact that the mafia's involved and I'm hearing these stories
19:43
Speaker 1: about basic human health care, like, but it's treated as
19:48
Speaker 1: if this spy level. And and so many women did
19:52
Speaker 1: come out and shared why it was so important, um,
19:56
Speaker 1: and why they were so scared, and it was so
19:59
Speaker 1: nice to find these women who were compassionate to them, right,
20:02
Speaker 1: and that kind of gave them like an ear and like, no,
20:05
Speaker 1: we're going to take care of you. It's okay. It
20:08
Speaker 1: was pretty powerful. It was Dorry Baron her story alone,
20:13
Speaker 1: just her finding kindness and all of that like broke
20:18
Speaker 1: my heart that that that it took that much. And
20:21
Speaker 1: you know, behind the scenes of this, they actually could
20:25
Speaker 1: not the directors could not find people to interview who
20:28
Speaker 1: had experienced during this time in Chicago, so they took
20:31
Speaker 1: out an actual newspaper at old school newspaper ad to
20:36
Speaker 1: fish out people to have a conversation, and they were
20:39
Speaker 1: able to have a few people come and talk about
20:41
Speaker 1: it for the first time. I think that's what a
20:43
Speaker 1: lot of the documentaries were missing. UM, So we got
20:47
Speaker 1: to hear a little story of how they were impactful.
20:50
Speaker 1: And they even talk about the fact Yea, Heather Booth
20:52
Speaker 1: when she founded, when she was beginning this whole service,
20:55
Speaker 1: she was pregnant herself, um, as well as Jeane who
20:59
Speaker 1: was escorting women around. I think she actually escorted Dory
21:03
Speaker 1: Barra was pregnant at the time. And for Dorry Barton
21:06
Speaker 1: to see this and to see still feel accepted, she
21:09
Speaker 1: had this huge conversation and felt, uh, this new level
21:12
Speaker 1: of acceptance. But you know, with that scene about illegal abortion,
21:16
Speaker 1: they also talked about and we're gonna talk about it
21:17
Speaker 1: in a bit, how this new overturning of Roe v.
21:22
Speaker 1: Wade is even more strict than it was pre Roe v.
21:26
Speaker 1: Wade because now we have bounties. Now we have all
21:29
Speaker 1: of these uh prosecution to go after uh not only
21:33
Speaker 1: aiding abiding but literally just leaving the state, leaving the country,
21:37
Speaker 1: talking about taking contraceptives off the plate completely. Of course,
21:41
Speaker 1: there was a scene where they're like, for us to
21:43
Speaker 1: get birth control, we had to pretend to be married
21:46
Speaker 1: in order to get it to be at all. Honestly,
21:48
Speaker 1: if they were restricting it altogether, as saying that conception
21:51
Speaker 1: is began by like, uh, life starts at conception, then
21:56
Speaker 1: that's a whole that's a whole other level at this point. Yeah.
22:01
Speaker 1: In fact, my mom and I talked about this this
22:03
Speaker 1: last weekend because she has a friend who is very
22:05
Speaker 1: conservative and very Catholic, and my mom was like, well,
22:08
Speaker 1: I had an IUD. Just do you think that means
22:10
Speaker 1: I was killing babies? And she was like, yes, I too,
22:14
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's based on the arguments we've heard. It
22:21
Speaker 1: is scary. It is scary. Yeah, and just a reminder
22:25
Speaker 1: of Chicago was very Catholic, um, and they do talk
22:29
Speaker 1: about that, even when the detectives talk about trying to
22:32
Speaker 1: figure out what the hell is going on and how
22:34
Speaker 1: it passed to one Catholic person to another Catholic authority
22:37
Speaker 1: to another Catholic and it didn't really they didn't want to.
22:40
Speaker 1: They thought this was trivial and oh my god, why
22:42
Speaker 1: are we doing this? So that's another change because men
22:45
Speaker 1: are way more concerned today than they were than about
22:48
Speaker 1: women's bodies and how to how to tell them. Like,
22:51
Speaker 1: they didn't want to do this, They just did their job.
22:53
Speaker 1: As where we have women now who really want to
22:56
Speaker 1: do this, and they are so excited to be able
22:58
Speaker 1: to say this. Yeah, but it was obviously with the
23:03
Speaker 1: ending of the movie was an ending of an era.
23:06
Speaker 1: In the end, uh, they estimated they had performed over
23:09
Speaker 1: eleven hundred safe, affordable abortions provided by the Jains. In
23:15
Speaker 1: between their time. Uh, they talked about and it was
23:19
Speaker 1: heartbreaking because I feel this. I feeled this to my
23:21
Speaker 1: core when they were like, you know, but women shouldn't
23:23
Speaker 1: even have to be put through this to begin with.
23:26
Speaker 1: They shouldn't have had to go through this anxiety to
23:28
Speaker 1: begin with. They talk about the loss that they've seen, um,
23:32
Speaker 1: when they couldn't help or it was too late to
23:34
Speaker 1: help some of the women that came through. And then
23:37
Speaker 1: oh my god, the stories about the septic abortion ward
23:42
Speaker 1: was horrific. But to be able to see that it
23:45
Speaker 1: was closed since rovie wod had been overturned, they didn't
23:49
Speaker 1: need it anymore. Yeah, Yeah, I mean that was another
23:54
Speaker 1: another thing where again we've we talked about this, we've
23:59
Speaker 1: read it, we've read about at it, um. But every
24:01
Speaker 1: now and then I just hear something like this, And
24:05
Speaker 1: it's because I didn't grow up during this time, right,
24:08
Speaker 1: roev Waite has always existed as I've been alive. So
24:11
Speaker 1: I hear like septic abortion word, right, and it's like
24:16
Speaker 1: my brain is just can't process it. And then that's
24:21
Speaker 1: coming with the reality that we're in now. It's it
24:27
Speaker 1: was kind of a a mind watching this, to be honest. Yeah,
24:32
Speaker 1: it did. It was like you were supposed to be
24:34
Speaker 1: done with this. That was supposed to be the fight.
24:36
Speaker 1: Um And speaking of what, Yeah, the end of the movie,
24:38
Speaker 1: it ends with the song Chicago, which in one of
24:41
Speaker 1: the lyrics says, we can change the world, we can
24:43
Speaker 1: reverse you know all these things. And I'm like, oh,
24:45
Speaker 1: and had a booth said we came together at a
24:48
Speaker 1: time it was most needed. We did it, and then
24:50
Speaker 1: it was time to do something else. We were done,
24:52
Speaker 1: so goodbye, Jane. And it just felt like no, but
24:55
Speaker 1: it's that, but it's nothing, it's not was it was tragic, um.
25:05
Speaker 1: But you know the women that did this, they were inspiring, um.
25:11
Speaker 1: And and one of the things that has been said.
25:14
Speaker 1: What we've always said and what we continue to say
25:17
Speaker 1: is yeah, you can shut this down, but that doesn't
25:20
Speaker 1: mean it's going to end a and that doesn't mean
25:22
Speaker 1: people aren't going to keep fighting no matter what. Because
25:25
Speaker 1: they were saying this so like we were upstanding middle
25:29
Speaker 1: you know, lower middle upper class women who were criminals,
25:34
Speaker 1: and we were okay with it. They said, you know,
25:36
Speaker 1: it was worth fighting for UM and you know, I
25:39
Speaker 1: wanted to go back before we come to where we
25:41
Speaker 1: are today and some of the reaction about the women's
25:45
Speaker 1: rights and the revolution of it UM, because that was
25:49
Speaker 1: obviously a huge part of this UM. And they talked
25:51
Speaker 1: about how each one of them, most of them had
25:54
Speaker 1: been from some other UH activism or some of the
25:58
Speaker 1: other movement, including the anti war movement which was happening
26:01
Speaker 1: with the Vietnam War, as well as the civil rights movement,
26:05
Speaker 1: which we saw was a huge debacle, and the rising
26:10
Speaker 1: up the black panthers UM and what that looked like.
26:13
Speaker 1: And I thought it was really interesting how it was
26:16
Speaker 1: noted that they came from these movements. They took from
26:19
Speaker 1: these movements that are like not took, but like saw
26:21
Speaker 1: the examples and what they needed to do to be
26:23
Speaker 1: organized for the women's rights movements. Yeah, yeah, I think
26:27
Speaker 1: that's something that we've we've seen a lot and it
26:31
Speaker 1: is inspiring to see kind of like, oh, you can
26:35
Speaker 1: learn from all these different movements and um as intersectionality
26:39
Speaker 1: has become more important. Like that's that's good to see
26:43
Speaker 1: to you because it's true, like as we always say,
26:45
Speaker 1: like people have done their work, like do your research
26:47
Speaker 1: and learn from them, and they're there for the like
26:50
Speaker 1: they've done the work. So I love seeing I love
26:53
Speaker 1: seeing that of people taking note and being inspired and
26:57
Speaker 1: then doing the thing that like move them right. And Yeah,
27:02
Speaker 1: one of the big things on this is it began
27:05
Speaker 1: because they either had the process themselves that been in
27:08
Speaker 1: that that they've been in that place for themselves, or
27:10
Speaker 1: they saw people and they were just willing to help
27:12
Speaker 1: each other. Heather Boot talking about let me help you
27:15
Speaker 1: and finding and finding a doctor who was willing to
27:17
Speaker 1: do this, which put her at risk. I mean not
27:21
Speaker 1: as much as the doctor who was a black doctor
27:23
Speaker 1: at the time that we talked about, Dr Howard, and
27:26
Speaker 1: trying to find and connect with him to find the
27:29
Speaker 1: procedure and when he was arrested she's like, all right,
27:31
Speaker 1: I gotta find someone else because these women need my help. Um.
27:35
Speaker 1: And it was really sweet to see Marie Um bringing
27:40
Speaker 1: in Wolson. You know that was her because she wasn't
27:43
Speaker 1: arrested and she could have just skated by. She was like, not,
27:45
Speaker 1: these are my friends. I need you to help and
27:47
Speaker 1: advocating for them to get the right representation that they needed. UM.
27:53
Speaker 1: Stuff like that was really inspiring and also trying to
27:56
Speaker 1: see like, wow, they came together. They came together is
28:00
Speaker 1: a core group. Like they were willing to hide identities
28:03
Speaker 1: and hide information from women. They ate the cards, Yeah,
28:07
Speaker 1: they ate when they were discovered by the police, they
28:11
Speaker 1: ate the information cards. And one of them, she said,
28:14
Speaker 1: it's fibrous. That was my favorite. She's like, I don't
28:18
Speaker 1: know if you eat in post cards, but they're very fibrous.
28:22
Speaker 1: Like I like, I really wish I could just have
28:24
Speaker 1: drinks with these women. But yeah, they talked about what
28:28
Speaker 1: they had to do and how they were willing to
28:29
Speaker 1: go all the way in and without you know, bringing
28:33
Speaker 1: them with them. Like they did not seem to harbor
28:35
Speaker 1: any hate for any of them. They just really wanted
28:38
Speaker 1: to protect these women and save their lives again when
28:42
Speaker 1: she's talking about at the end, when she's like, you know,
28:45
Speaker 1: women shouldn't have to be even going through this in
28:46
Speaker 1: the first place. You felt that you felt her hurting
28:51
Speaker 1: as we hurt because we shouldn't. They shouldn't have to
28:54
Speaker 1: go through this at any point. But you know, even
28:56
Speaker 1: with all of this, it was pretty glaring. And we've
29:00
Speaker 1: talked about this before about how this was very white,
29:02
Speaker 1: women centric um and then when they when that change,
29:06
Speaker 1: because in New York opened up, it was very obvious
29:08
Speaker 1: that they were not quite prepared for the diversity that
29:12
Speaker 1: was going to come through and who was actually being
29:15
Speaker 1: affected by what is going down. And yeah, Lesson, the director.
29:20
Speaker 1: Lesson echoed that point and says in one of our interviews,
29:23
Speaker 1: our film shows that people who are disproportionately harmed when
29:27
Speaker 1: abortion isn't protected are black and brown people, rule people,
29:31
Speaker 1: people who simply just can't afford to travel across state lines.
29:35
Speaker 1: They can't afford to be awake from work, they cannot
29:38
Speaker 1: afford child care for the children they do have, They
29:41
Speaker 1: cannot afford child care for the children they do have
29:43
Speaker 1: so that they can leave town for a day or two.
29:45
Speaker 1: Like this is that conversation is like it opened up
29:49
Speaker 1: the bigger picture kind of the same way as the
29:51
Speaker 1: stay at home moms versus the work moms and the
29:54
Speaker 1: women's movements. It was really exclusive and privileged to have
29:59
Speaker 1: the statement it as if like working was a privileged No, ma'am.
30:03
Speaker 1: A lot of people have to work because they have
30:05
Speaker 1: no other means and therefore can't be with their child
30:08
Speaker 1: or are run ragged or abused by the system. Like
30:12
Speaker 1: it's that same conversation, like people don't have time to
30:17
Speaker 1: have an abortion, but they don't have time or have
30:20
Speaker 1: the money to have another child, or have you know
30:22
Speaker 1: any of that as a conversation, Or they're being abused
30:26
Speaker 1: by husbands, Like there are so many things to this
30:29
Speaker 1: point that is very privileged. And they had to kind
30:32
Speaker 1: of come to terms with that, and they didn't have
30:35
Speaker 1: to acknowledge that as per se until the new until
30:39
Speaker 1: New York allowed for abortion to have and they were like, whoa, oh,
30:44
Speaker 1: this is different. Yes, And we're seeing that play out
30:47
Speaker 1: today because I feel like I see so many very
30:50
Speaker 1: dismissive conversations from like conservative news media that's like, it's
30:56
Speaker 1: not it's not that we banned abortion. You can go
30:58
Speaker 1: to different state. Everyone can do that right now, ever,
31:02
Speaker 1: you shouldn't have to do that, Like that's ridiculous, all
31:05
Speaker 1: of those things, and then you have all the conversations
31:08
Speaker 1: of like Missouri talking about they're gonna try to ban that,
31:12
Speaker 1: and that if you leave the state, they'll still prosecute
31:14
Speaker 1: you the minute we return her and they don't care.
31:30
Speaker 1: We are seeing who is truly going after and this
31:35
Speaker 1: it's it's a lot. There's a lot of underneath that
31:39
Speaker 1: we need to talk about. And they were able to
31:41
Speaker 1: kind of without even saying anything, they said it, you know,
31:45
Speaker 1: it was it was interesting to see, um. And then
31:48
Speaker 1: on top of that, I know we have talked about
31:52
Speaker 1: a lot how doctors don't believe women, but I'm not
31:55
Speaker 1: going a lot of documentary with the level that was here.
31:58
Speaker 1: The doctors, as they said, we're kings and had a
32:02
Speaker 1: lot of deciding power here. Yeah, yeah they did. And
32:08
Speaker 1: again that's also something we're still talking about. And our
32:11
Speaker 1: medical system in general is a big mystery, and who
32:14
Speaker 1: sets the prices and the insurance companies all of that.
32:16
Speaker 1: It's there's no clarity with it, um. But especially during
32:22
Speaker 1: this when it seemed like the way the documentary painted
32:24
Speaker 1: it was people knew this was happening, they were being pursued,
32:29
Speaker 1: but for in a lot of cases, it was sort
32:32
Speaker 1: of like, I won't say anything about it. And that
32:34
Speaker 1: was one of the most surprising things to me is
32:36
Speaker 1: that like that that would be so scary to me,
32:38
Speaker 1: is to get the call from a police officer or
32:41
Speaker 1: to get a call from a doctor um or Yeah,
32:47
Speaker 1: they were referring people. Doctors were referring people to the jains, like,
32:52
Speaker 1: so it's sort of an instance of like, I guess, yeah,
32:55
Speaker 1: they're kings, but they were either admitting, you know, we
32:59
Speaker 1: can't help you, you can go here, Like it was interesting.
33:04
Speaker 1: There's a lot of yeah, back and forth because honestly,
33:06
Speaker 1: we saw it during the pandemic. They didn't have this
33:09
Speaker 1: whole level of like, oh, you have all this power,
33:11
Speaker 1: you're doing all these evil things and that's not necessarily true.
33:14
Speaker 1: Not that that didn't happen. I don't know exactly, but
33:16
Speaker 1: there was this level of like and and it's coming
33:19
Speaker 1: back in this conversation because doctors are refusing to do
33:25
Speaker 1: there's a fear that doctors are going to refuse to
33:28
Speaker 1: help people, even in emergency situations because their fear of
33:31
Speaker 1: being arrested, find or taking their letter license taken away.
33:36
Speaker 1: But there's this whole level of conversation, and then of
33:39
Speaker 1: course we have that upsides, like well, this is a
33:42
Speaker 1: person's life. You're not going to help this person if
33:45
Speaker 1: their life is a danger, even if it's legal, because
33:47
Speaker 1: you're afraid too. And we've already seen it. The young
33:49
Speaker 1: girl literally like under twelve year old girl. They refused
33:53
Speaker 1: to help and now it's too late because they were
33:56
Speaker 1: scared that they were going to violate the law. And
33:58
Speaker 1: of course the lawmakers said that's the consequence, sorry, which
34:02
Speaker 1: it's a whole different conversation. She cannot consent to sex
34:05
Speaker 1: ative but okay, I'm very angry. Um in that same
34:10
Speaker 1: conversation that a topic pregnancy which has already come and
34:13
Speaker 1: risen up, and everybody's like, well, this is your fault.
34:14
Speaker 1: This is fearmongering, and so the doctors are too scared
34:17
Speaker 1: to do something legal because the leftists are saying that
34:20
Speaker 1: they're going to get arrested, which I've heard this argument,
34:23
Speaker 1: which is not the case. No, because we have people
34:26
Speaker 1: in politics say that a topic pregnacies can be saved,
34:30
Speaker 1: which is not true. But because of this lie, they're
34:33
Speaker 1: putting it as a caveat of maybe we can make
34:35
Speaker 1: it happen. Yes, yes, again, Like there's so much misinformation
34:42
Speaker 1: and I feel like a willing suspension of disbelief or
34:45
Speaker 1: like willingness to not learn anything about how women's bodies
34:49
Speaker 1: work or people who can get pregnant, how their bodies work.
34:52
Speaker 1: That we've just heard so much stuff like the whole
34:54
Speaker 1: idea like if you get raped, a woman can stop that.
34:56
Speaker 1: Like that's this is stuff. Are people in power or
35:00
Speaker 1: sake right? And it in it in order that that's child,
35:04
Speaker 1: This child is a blessing for you to correct the
35:06
Speaker 1: mistake which I've heard and I want to plunge people.
35:09
Speaker 1: I'm going to pludnge people. Um, but yeah, these are
35:12
Speaker 1: things that are happening, and so they have have caused
35:15
Speaker 1: this huge debate within the health care system of what
35:18
Speaker 1: do we do? What do we do this? Where are
35:20
Speaker 1: we now? And are they going to go back? You know,
35:23
Speaker 1: it's a hard decision. I feel like I know what
35:26
Speaker 1: I would want to believe, but I'm not in that place. Um.
35:29
Speaker 1: I'm not getting anybody excuses, but the law has made
35:34
Speaker 1: everyone so wary and cautious that it's going to endanger
35:41
Speaker 1: people's lives. We know this, but yeah, I we the
35:45
Speaker 1: fact that this is like we talked about all the
35:48
Speaker 1: things from the sixties and seventies pretty Row v. Wade,
35:51
Speaker 1: and now we're back, and now we're back with even
35:53
Speaker 1: more cautionary ideals and worries about what's happening. We had
35:59
Speaker 1: to know if Lesson and Pildy's the director's reaction, how
36:04
Speaker 1: they reacted to the overturning of Rob Way. So obviously
36:06
Speaker 1: it's been a while, it's been a minute since they
36:09
Speaker 1: finished the film themselves. Um and Lesson told Deadline an
36:14
Speaker 1: article that she was gutted. We've been sounding the alarm
36:17
Speaker 1: for many months now, and even though the leak of
36:19
Speaker 1: the court draft ruling gave us a glimpse of things
36:22
Speaker 1: to come, I think being in this moment now is wrenching. Yeah,
36:27
Speaker 1: Um and Pildas added, it's just been so emotional to
36:30
Speaker 1: think that here we are and all that stuff that
36:32
Speaker 1: we know to be true about the criminalization of abortion
36:35
Speaker 1: and what happens when that's the law of the land
36:37
Speaker 1: is going to happen again. Women are going to die
36:40
Speaker 1: and to be injured and be humiliated and be sexually
36:42
Speaker 1: assaulted all of the other scenarios that happened when abortion
36:45
Speaker 1: is criminalized and forced into back alleys. Right. Oh, this
36:52
Speaker 1: doesn't end on a happy you note, obviously, except for
36:56
Speaker 1: maybe knowing that we will come together. There will be more,
37:00
Speaker 1: and we've talked about the underground networks that have already formed.
37:03
Speaker 1: Although again we do want to stress precaution and making
37:08
Speaker 1: sure that we are not spreading the harmful narratives, that
37:12
Speaker 1: there is a safe abortion access, that it is still
37:15
Speaker 1: legal in most places, and that you can get help today. Reminder,
37:20
Speaker 1: there are organizations out there that you can donate to,
37:23
Speaker 1: but please donate locally, locally, locally, locally, because that is
37:26
Speaker 1: where it's going to help. That is where it's going
37:29
Speaker 1: to help the most. Even if some states are saying
37:31
Speaker 1: that they are going to allow access, if things come
37:34
Speaker 1: on the federal line, we're at a whole different point.
37:36
Speaker 1: And I know Biden has done something, but let's be honest,
37:41
Speaker 1: it's not that helpful. So we're gonna I'm just I'm
37:43
Speaker 1: just gonna an asterisk there will come back to what
37:45
Speaker 1: we're talking about later because we're not talking about it
37:48
Speaker 1: here in this uh episode. But there's a lot that
37:52
Speaker 1: we need to make sure that we are not going
37:54
Speaker 1: to cause harm in our misinformation in believing all of
37:58
Speaker 1: the worst case scenarios. Because there is still access to
38:02
Speaker 1: the abortion pill that is still FDA approved and can
38:05
Speaker 1: be sent by mail. You may have to go through
38:07
Speaker 1: different routes, but there are accessing routes to that. Careful
38:11
Speaker 1: who you trust. Be careful who you trust because there
38:15
Speaker 1: are a lot of bad players out there, and we've
38:17
Speaker 1: talked about that before as well as Yeah, well that's
38:20
Speaker 1: kind of w about. Biggest fears is that degreed that
38:23
Speaker 1: can happen, the disgusting that that could happen, not because
38:27
Speaker 1: it's not accessible, but because people will take advantage of
38:30
Speaker 1: these situations. So please be cautious. Yes, yeah, yeah, And
38:36
Speaker 1: again I hate that we have to be here, but
38:39
Speaker 1: it is. This was a very inspiring documentary, even though
38:43
Speaker 1: it was also very sad given what's happened, but like
38:46
Speaker 1: you did see women coming together and really supporting each
38:48
Speaker 1: other and we're seeing that again now. So definitely recommend
38:51
Speaker 1: checking it out. It's on HBO Max right now if
38:55
Speaker 1: you would like to stream, which is not a sponsor currently,
38:58
Speaker 1: but um yeah, definitely go check it out. Um and
39:01
Speaker 1: you can email us any resources or people we should
39:05
Speaker 1: talk about or anything like that around this issue. UM,
39:08
Speaker 1: you can do that at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at
39:11
Speaker 1: iHeart media dot com. You can find us on Twitter
39:13
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Speaker 1: Told You. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina.
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Speaker 1: Thank you Christina, and thanks to you for listening Stuff
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Speaker 1: you listening to favorite ships