Latest / Echoes & Edges / Hidden Enneagram Narratives: Heart Center (Types 2,3,4) with Ro Elliott

Transcript

Hidden Enneagram Narratives: Heart Center (Types 2,3,4) with Ro Elliott · Echoes & Edges

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Hey, it's Patria. If you're noticing a desire to understand
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: yourself and your patterns more deeply, or want to feel
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: more grounded, more at home in your own life, I
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: want to invite you into something I'm offering. On June thirteen,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: I'll be hosting a live workshop called Coming Home to Yourself,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: a Journey into Secure Belonging. This is a space where
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: we'll gently explore what it means to move out of
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: survival patterns and into a more secure, connected way of
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: relating to yourself and to others. It's not about fixing yourself,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: that's for sure. It's more about understanding what shaped us
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: and learning how to come back to who we are
• 0:52
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• 0:57
  Speaker 1: workshop is eighty nine dollars, with an expanded option available
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: for those who want to take a deeper dive, and
• 1:03
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• 1:07
  Speaker 1: a discount of ten percent. If you'd like to join us,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: you can find all the details and register through the
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: link in the show notes.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: I'd love to.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: See you there, so Roe. What makes the heart center
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: distinct from the gut or head centers? You might have
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: a long answer for this, maybe you just bullet point it.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: But what are your thoughts about that.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: They experience the world through their emotions and relationships. They
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: are shaped by mirror, mirroring. They are always reading the room,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: they are looking how others are responding to them, and
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: it is a coping mechanism where they will shift their tone,
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: their behavior, their presentation. If it's an oh man, it's
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: a blessing a curse because you can read a person
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: really quick, and each of A two, three, and four
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: know how to change. Image is really what they're curating
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: their life around is an image? And do I matter?
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Am I loved? Am I seen? So that's how they
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: move through the world.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: The word image always makes some people squirm in their seats,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: So as a type two, talk to us about what
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: that means like because it's not good or bad. It's
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: a thing. And you mentioned mirroring, shaped by mirror, So
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: what are your thoughts about what image means to the
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: heart center.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: I'm going to be honest as a two, when people
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: talked about THO like, that's not true, I do not.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: And it was easy for me to see A three
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: because they do shape shift. That made sense to me,
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: the four wants to be unique, to be seen as different.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: And I couldn't.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: See like I don't have an image, but yes I do,
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: because the image is how are people perceiving me?
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: And I know everybody kind of cares a little bit
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: about that, but not like those of us in this
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: heart center And am I being? Am I being accepted?
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Am I being? Do I need to change something? So
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: I feel wanted in this screup? And we're eating the
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: room all the time, and that is curating an acceptable
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: image to be welcomed into a room. We are not
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: consciously thinking about it until the enneagram or good some
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: hard work that that is actually going on all the time.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: So I was very uncomfortable with the word image conscious
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: because to me it was like, well I don't I
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: don't get guessed up. I don't really care about what
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: I have on. I mean that to me was an image,
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: but it's so much more internal. Yeah, it's an internal
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: It's about the heart. It is am I wanted? And
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: what has to and what do I have to do
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: to be loved or wanted in this room? And I
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: will become that?
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Yes? Okay, So that is such a great segue to
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: this idea of how shame and it depends on the theory.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: Some people talk about sadness being the primary emotional driver
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: of the heart types. But we're going to talk about shame.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Not that everybody doesn't experience shame, but because we're talking
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: about belonging and the way that you just so honestly
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: and candidly discussed the need for acceptance, you know, you
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: can see how shame plays a central part for heart types.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: When we think about that, so shame is often described,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: is that core emotional energy of the heart center? And
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: how do you understand that? Like in terms of the shame,
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: are there other ways to think about it and or
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: what are the hidden narratives that it's driving.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: Underneath everything that we're doing. It is a deep longing
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: for love, worthiness, visibility. I don't think again I didn't
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: like shame. What is what is that? But I think
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: because this triad moves in a lot of comparison, image management,
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: overwareness of approval of people. And when we're reading that,
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: we're not getting that. It's telling us you're not lovable,
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: you're not worthy, and you can't be loved for who
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: you are. And that's what shame does. It tells the
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: try to tell us who we are in a very
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: with a negative. So I think as we're doing this,
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: shame is naming us names. It too is unlovable. You know,
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: can a three as unworthy and a four as too
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: much unworthy of love? If people really knew who you,
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: you know, you allowed them to see who you were.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: It's so painful. Yes, am I hearing that right? I mean,
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: it just feels so.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: Painful because it's identity. I mean, that's it's the core.
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  Speaker 2: And I think when our identity is misshaped by shame,
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  Speaker 2: it does cause a lot of pain and heart and
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: a lot of working, earning, striving to try to work
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: our way out of that instead of learning to have
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: a better story and a better narrative.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Well, and so how does it like talk about again,
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: because you are a type two, you're in this triad,
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: talk to us about how these strategies become ways of
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  Speaker 1: securing love and belonging. Because that's what the shame is
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: telling us is you're not is telling the heart types
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: in some version, you're not worthy, you're not good enough,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: you're too much. So how do these strategies of the
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: types become And maybe we talk a little bit more
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: about what the strategy of each type is and then
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: how they become ways of securing love and belonging.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: So for a type two, I am going to move fast.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: I'm going to see need, I'm going to take care
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  Speaker 2: of it. I'm going to hear something, and I'm going
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: to try to fix. I'm going towards how I kind
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: of try to move away from the shame is I
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: go really fast toward people, and at times before I
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: did work, I went too fast for people because I'm
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: trying to get connection. Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to say
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: do you want me? Do you love me? And so
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: if I go first, so to speak, then that doesn't
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: leave any room for the rejection. So I'm going to
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: make sure that doesn't happen.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: So candid, thank you.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: So A three they don't know who they are outside achievement.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: So as a child, obviously something told then you will
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: be loved and accepted as long as you are achieving
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: and as long as you successful. So they lose themselves
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: of who they are apart from accomplishments. They are their
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: accomplishments instead of this is who I am and these
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: are some things that I did it's all blended together.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: For them, it's one thing, it's one identity. It's their identity.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: Their accomplishments, success is their identity, and fours they kind
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: of they are the deepest feeling people of all the enneagram,
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: and so they can get lost in the narrative I
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: am my feelings, so wherever they're sitting in their feelings,
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: so it's almost like that's who I am. And they
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: have this push pull. They want so badly to be seen,
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: to be for who they are, the uniqueness. But then
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: they can kind of withdraw because if somebody really does
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: see me, will they really love me?
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The crazy thing or the paradox of these coping
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  Speaker 2: strategies I think for all all triads is we are
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  Speaker 2: working this trend's working hard to build love and security
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  Speaker 2: and accepted, but actually we are working against ourselves. It
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: is actually doing the exact opposite. It's not giving us
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: the deepest desire is for that connection to be known,
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  Speaker 2: seen and loved. We're actually building walls to keep people
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  Speaker 2: from actually coming in and seeing us for who we are.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, because shame says it's messaging, And again, I just
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  Speaker 1: I think it can't be overstated the pain of the
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  Speaker 1: heart types in the all of the all of the
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: centers have their own type of pain, but this identity
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  Speaker 1: focused pain is poignant. I can feel it as you're
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: talking about it, you know, and it's and it's just
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: something that I think is worthy of noting about the
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: heart center because I think, again, thinking about bad raps,
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  Speaker 1: there can be a misunderstanding of emotions and of this
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  Speaker 1: need where identity is truly being attacked all the time
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  Speaker 1: by shame, and so that working against yourselves feels very
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: similar to how ones have and all the all the
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: types we've just talked about have to sort of contract,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: relax the contraction in some way. And for you, as
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: heart types, it feels like relaxing the contraction about getting
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: love and letting love come to you because you're worthy.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: What changes, then, when heart centered leaders move from image
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  Speaker 1: management to genuine connection? What changes? If anything?
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: I think the shift has to happen from how am
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: I being perceived, because then we're not going to be
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  Speaker 2: genuine how am I being perceived? To how am I
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  Speaker 2: truly connecting? Because it's actually what we want is connection.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: But if we don't let go of how I'm being perceived,
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  Speaker 2: we're never going to have that true connection. So A
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  Speaker 2: two needs to give, but we also need to receive.
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  Speaker 2: We need to ask for help. I heard a phenomenal
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: teaching on Guessemite yesterday at her church. I'm one of
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: my favorite teachers. Look her up, Christy mcke Christy McClellan.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: But she talked about being a Gisemite, and Jesus came
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  Speaker 2: out to the disciples and he clearly stated how he
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: was feeling. I feel like I could die. I'm close
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: to death. The anguish. He shared his anguish, he was anguishing,
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  Speaker 2: and he let the disciples know he was anguishing. Second,
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  Speaker 2: he said, and I need you. Can you stay with me?
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  Speaker 2: Can you be with me? Is that? And I heard that?
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  Speaker 2: And I can't help but hear everything this movie. I thought,
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, tues need to hear that. Yeah, because
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  Speaker 2: we don't know what we feel and we don't know
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: what we need, and we're afraid to say either one
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: of them. I mean, I think everybody needs that. But
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: I thought, yeah, Jesus in his most vulnerable time, was
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: honest about how he felt and what he needed. Yeah,
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: And I think that's like a banner message for any
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: gram twos M.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: And I can I could applied that pretty quickly to
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: all of the heart types. Yes, yeah, yes, yeah, yeah,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: the with the with like the with invites your being
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: just be just be here with me. I hear such invitation.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: From her, Yes, And I have to allow if I'm
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: always giving, giving, giving, giving, it's one sided. That's not
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: a relationship. Yeah, and I think so. In leadership on
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: a team, you can't always be the one doing and
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: doing and doing. You need to ask for help. It's
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: a give and take, and that's the best kind of
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: leadership is when you're giving and receiving and it's not
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: at a kilter.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I hear you saying. And as the type two,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: type twos often make incredible leaders and you're not gonna
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: you're not going to say that about type twos, likely
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: be as you are and probably don't see yourself that way.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: But we know and I know that type twos make
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: incredible leaders actually because of this emotional awareness, because of
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: the help the helper strengths, and so what I hear
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: you saying. And again we could apply this for type
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: threes in fource, but we're talking centers. And because you're
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: a two we're going to focus on the two in
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: this particular segment. But I hear you saying that when
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: a leader too goes from image management to like what
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: Jesus said, I need you to be with me, that's
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: the shift. That's what I hear you saying, is that's
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: the shift.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: Meditation. Yes, and people are having a relationship with an image,
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: whether you're two or three or four, Yep, they can't
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: have your relationship with the image. They have to have
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: a relationship with who we really are. And I think
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: about threes if they can get comfortable with their humanity,
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: with their flaws, with making a mistake, just that kind
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: of realness. I've been in a room with a healthy
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: three female and she was like my biggest cheerleader. She's
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: the one that really got me out in front of
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: people talk about the enneagram and it was her thing.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: But a healthy three is so good at like not
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: just seeing who they are, but really calling out the
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: best in other people. And they can really create an
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: environment to elevate everybody. And I think when they are vulnerable,
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: it does help other people on a team to be
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: able to say, oh, don't have to be perfect. It's
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: not perfect, Like a one, three, but perfect. I can't
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: let I can't let any weakness. Yeah, I can't let
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: any weakness be seen. And so I think when a
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: three can let down that mask and let people see
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: who they really are, then I think that builds trust
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: and helps the team grow together. It's again, we can't
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: have relationship with the image. I think if that's one
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: thing for us, heart triads need to know. People can't
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: have relationship with an image, They have to have it
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: with a person.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So good leaders are themselves, is what I hear
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: you saying. They're like they show up like the real you. Yes,
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: well like, well, the real you stand up, the real
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: you stands up.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: Yes. I think when fourst can stand up and be
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: comfortable in who they are and not try to image
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: manage and am I too much? Am I? Not too much? Now?
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: I think they need to be able to share and
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: not traumatize things. I think that sort of four has
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: to learn how to share vulnerably within boundaries. But when
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: they do that invites other people into that same space.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: But fours have to be first of all, become comfortable
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: in who they are and not what is wrong that
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: nagging question in a four? What am I missing what
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: is wrong with me? Their comparison isn't their envy isn't like,
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: oh I wish I had their house and I wish
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: I had the car. They have something I don't have.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: And if you're in a group on a team, if
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: you can flip that little mirror that story, they have
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: something I don't have, and that's good because they're going
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: to bring that and I'm going to bring this. Just
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: flip the narrative of what a foretells themselves instead that's negative,
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: it's positive. You know.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: It's almost like for Force, they just just elongate the sentence.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: And I love what you just said there that that
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: feels deeply authentic to fors and just to say on
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: forest behalf. Just like with twos and threes, they can
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: fall into sharing, sometimes over sharing their pain as an
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: effort in an effort to connect. That's what they're trying
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: to do. They're trying to be seen and then can
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: have that hard withdraw when they are seen because they
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: believe they're deficient. So that is kind of the trap
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: of the force. I love what you just said there.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: They have something you don't have, and it's good. It's
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: just elongating the space it feels similar to eights there
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: a little bit. Not that fors and eighths are the
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: same by any means, but the pause feels similar in
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: my body if I use my instinct as a nine there. Hey,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: it's Patria. If you've been listening to this podcast and
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: find yourself recognizing pieces of your own story, the patterns
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: of secrecy or shame, the questions about your worth or purpose,
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  Speaker 1: to extend a hand to others. To you, the person
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  Speaker 1: thinking about checking this out, you are not alone in
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: this reach out. There is a way forward. Well, anything
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: else you would add about the heart center before we
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: move forward from the space to the head center.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: I think I keep saying this, but I think if
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: the heart center, if we can be comfortable of understanding
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: a curated image will keep people away. And if we
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: will learn what our true identity is, who we really are,
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: then that invites people in. And that's the journey for
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: the heart center.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: That's beautiful. It's striking how often the hearts strategies are
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: really bids for love. They're really that bid for connection,
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: for belonging, and they are ways of trying to stay
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: connected without disappearing entirely. And so if the Heart center
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: wrestles most deeply with shame and worth. The Head Center
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: wrestles with something else entirely. It's uncertainty. How do I
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: stay safe? How do I prepare? How do I make
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: sense of a world that can feel unpredictable? And that's
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: where we're headed next as we turn toward the Head Center.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: If this episode resonates with you, follow or subscribe to
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Echoes and Edges on your favorite podcast platform, Leave a
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: five star review, and share with a friend who might
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: need a gentle invitation to self understanding. Echoes and Edges
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: is produced and edited by Stephen R. Sanders. Music promoted
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: by Vado. Echoes and Edges is part of the Vivid
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Livid podcast network, where bruses speak and healing finds its
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: voice