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Managing Change and the ROR: Return On Relationships with Mark Black · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
• 0:08
  things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:11
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:37
  Everyone, it's Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:38
  Thanks for tuning in again this week to authentic living with Roxanne.
• 0:42
  So today, I have a special colleague, Mark Black, and Mark and I, belong to the Canadian
• 0:48
  Association of Professional Speakers Mark has been a long time member that I've been,
• 0:54
  involved for about 7 about 6, 7 years now.
• 0:58
  But, Mark, I know has been around for a long time, Mark.
• 1:00
  So thanks for coming on today and spending the time with us.
• 1:04
  Thanks for having me, Roxanne.
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  It's good to be here.
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  Well, Mark's got, a fascinating story.
• 1:10
  When I heard a story, with our events, they were flipped by each other, I would say.
• 1:16
  We chat and then, of course, you know, with with all of us getting together, we were last
• 1:20
  in Calgary together.
• 1:23
  I would hear snippets of his story, and I know that at some point, we were going to have him
• 1:28
  on the podcast.
• 1:30
  So Mark is a double lung, heart and double lung transplant, survivor.
• 1:39
  I'm not gonna say Thryver is probably a better way to use there.
• 1:43
  And then, you know, in 2002, and he Get this.
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  I was we were just chatting about this and has ran for marathons since, and we were just
• 1:52
  chatting about my, I would say, dislike of of running this.
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  And Mark, runs a trading and development company.
• 2:04
  Where he the bulk of his business is keynote speaking, training and coaching.
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  He works with the associates association markets mostly, but some dozen corporate.
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  So, Mark, thanks for coming on, today.
• 2:17
  Thanks for having me, Roxanne.
• 2:19
  This is fun.
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  So Mark, has also done something phenomenal as well.
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  We're both in that launch mode, so I could understand how many things you have flying
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  around in your end.
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  I just did my formal launch on Saturday, and it's a it's a lot.
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  And he has, written a book the resilience roadmap, which I really want to chat about,
• 2:39
  today.
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  But, Mark, let's let's just talk about you.
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  Right?
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  And Mark has a, you know, a full life.
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  He has a family.
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  He lives you live out east.
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  Right?
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  Am I correct?
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  Yeah.
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  That's right.
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  Yeah.
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  Moncton, New Brunswick.
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  Yep.
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  Yeah.
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  In New Brunswick.
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  So tell me, like, with the the medical concerns that you had, was it was it a a congenital,
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  like, a birth that you have these issues, or was it something that kind of developed, Mark,
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  as you go to grow?
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  Oh, born with the congenital heart defects.
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  Open heart surgery at several hours old.
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  But ultimately, in in a in a childhood of various challenges, mostly mostly fairly easy
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  to manage.
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  But always on medications and lots of medical follow-up and all those things for for my
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  childhood and early adult years.
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  And then it all kinda came to a crex when I was 23.
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  My condition is deteriorated, rather quickly.
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  And in the span of 3 months, I lost a third of my body weight became very easily winded, short
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  of breath, went to see our doctor.
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  And within about a month, I was so as admitted to hospital, actually, almost immediately, And
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  after a series of tests within about a month of that time, we were told that I needed a heart
• 3:59
  and double lung transplant ASAP.
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  So that was, obviously, a big shock to the system.
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  And we knew that Transplant was coming at some point in my future, but the window for when
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  that was gonna happen was always years into the future.
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  And all of a sudden, it was now.
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  And, and I was very fortunate that I was even accepted on the transplant list because I was
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  fairly ill, and that's not always possible.
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  But my, my doctor made that happen for us, and I was put on the transplant list, in Toronto.
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  And I had to move to Toronto to be put in the list because of the logistics of lung
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  transplants, specifically, hearts will last a fair bit longer from donor to recipient than
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  lungs do.
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  So we had to live within a 2 hour radius of the transplant center.
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  So We moved from New Brunswick to Ontario.
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  My dad and I, and I left my we're a family.
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  I'm from a family of 6.
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  So my three younger brothers and my mom stayed home in Moncton.
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  Dad and I moved Toronto.
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  It's put on the waiting list and waited nearly a year before receiving the transplant in
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  September of 2002.
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  Wow.
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  So a way.
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  Like, so obviously, so necessary, but, again, your family and the support that you have from
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  the beginning.
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  Amazing that, that, they could do it.
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  Right?
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  Cause you you think we're living in this part of the world as well, Mark.
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  Like, how privileged are we to be able to have that?
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  And, I mean, in Toronto, I live in Niagara.
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  So, and even Hamilton, right?
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  Like, we have such phenomenal services that get you, and then to get you, like we're talking
• 5:43
  double lung and a heart Like, so so how did it work?
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  Did did they kind of make sure that all of it was happening at the same time, or Did they
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  have to do one and you recover and then get strong enough to be able to do the others?
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  Yeah.
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  No.
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  It all all happened to once all from the same donor.
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  It it It essentially has to in order to even have a a hope of dealing with the potential
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  rejection issues afterwards.
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  If you're dealing with one extra immune system from another person.
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  That's one thing to be dealing with with 2 would be very difficult.
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  So it all comes from the same donor.
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  And, I was we were told when we were told I needed the transplant, we're also told the
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  chances of it happening.
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  We're almost 0.
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  So who's kind of a double Wow.
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  Double edged sword, both because lung transplants are fairly rare.
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  Much more common today than they were 20 years ago, but when I was listed they hadn't done a
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  single double lung transplant, single heart lung transplant, rather, in Canada the entire
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  year in 2001.
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  In 2002, I'm 1 of 3 or 4 that happened in the country.
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  So pretty rare.
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  And then because of my stature, I'm 411.
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  I weigh about a £120.
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  I'm not an ideal candidate because most donated organs come from, adult men, actually,
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  statistically.
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  And their lungs would not fit in my rib cage.
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  Right?
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  So, the donor pool for me was gonna be significantly smaller than the average.
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  A sized person.
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  So there were lots of the odds were stacked against us, and yet at the same time, when
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  you're told, your only option for long term survival is to do it.
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  The odds don't really matter to you much.
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  So so let's talk your, you know, I think of me, it's 23.
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  You know, I was like, you know, doing the typical, you know, early entry into adulthood,
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  university, blah blah blah at UFT kind of, you know, and trying to figure out the world.
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  What was your mindset at this time?
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  I mean, you you know, you come into this world.
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  Of course, we don't know about health.
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  And how did that impact you and how you kinda thought about things.
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  And were you sickly a lot along the way, Mark, or did you kinda have a lot of really good
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  health?
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  Until Yeah.
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  You know, I had
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  a I had a lot of fairly good health.
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  And, you know, I think one of the one of the blessings or benefits of congenital illness, if
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  there are any, is that you to a certain degree don't know any different.
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  So what was my normal was my normal.
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  It it didn't occur to me until I was like, I remember being six or seven years old at the
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  beach one day and realizing that not everybody else At a zipper.
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  I used to call it my my zipper, my scar down the front down my chest.
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  Oh, from,
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  from my from my heart surgery.
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  Oh my goodness.
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  So here you are thinking go.
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  Yeah.
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  I'm just like, well, that's, yeah, it's just it's it's always it's always been there.
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  Yeah.
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  Right?
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  And so biannual Cardiology follow ups were whatever what I did.
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  It still was just part of the routine.
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  And so in that way and and a lot of that comes from my parents doing an incredible job of
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  managing me, something you don't appreciate until you're repairing yourself.
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  And kinda look back and go, oh my gosh.
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  I'm sure.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  The the decisions that they made, I'm sure they would say they didn't make all the right
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  decisions, but they sure made a lot of good ones.
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  And and I think the most fundamental one, and my mom tells a story.
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  It came from a veteran nurse when she was Mom was had just delivered me or shortly
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  thereafter.
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  And this nurse, essentially, the wisdom was Treat him as normally as you possibly can.
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  Treat him as close to a, quote, unquote, normal child as as you can because he'll have enough
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  physical challenges, but if you treat him differently, he's also gonna have a lot more
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  mental and emotional challenges.
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  That don't need to be there.
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  And so they, you know, moment I did that, they were both I don't know if it was the they're
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  both fazette teachers by by trade.
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  And I think that helped.
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  In the sense that we were being active in playing sports was a natural part of growing up
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  in our house, and I was gonna be able to I was going to do Whatever I was physically able to
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  do, even though that probably required them to look the other way sometimes when I was pushing
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  myself beyond Wavy what was comfortable.
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  Oh, boy.
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  Here here he goes again.
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  Yeah.
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  Which time we're not gonna see that.
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  Right.
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  So they So really I would say, Mark, that's this this whole concept of when we think about
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  resiliency was something around you that your parents' great guidance by by nurse, but,
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  ultimately, I mean, there these are parents that now have a sick child.
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  Mhmm.
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  Now they have to, you know, I honestly put on your big girl pants kind of thing and not show
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  you any fear, which I'm sure, like, probably as an adult, you could probably talk to them now
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  parent to parent and say, oh my goodness.
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  How did you guys do it?
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  Yeah.
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  Already, that was they were teaching you some of the or demonstrating through osmosis, some
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  of the the basics about, you know, you know, deal with what you got and make the best of it
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  from a very, very young age.
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  Yeah.
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  No.
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  Absol absolutely.
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  The mindset was, like, growth mindset, although it was never labeled that in the house was
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  certainly just innately a part of our upbringing the idea of just, like, figure it
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  out and solve the problems as they arise.
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  And we'll deal with the next thing when the next thing comes, but we're not going to waste
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  time and energy worrying about things that we can't control and don't know if or when will
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  happen.
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  It was always just kind of like, let's deal with what we're, you know, let's live one day
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  at a time, so to speak.
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  Not, I mean, not in a record.
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  What's one of the things I talk about in in my work as well is is that idea of breaking life
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  down to the manageable piece of right here and right now, without being know, reckless not
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  live every day like it's your last day.
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  But, you know, let's have a plan and also understand that the plan may not work out, and
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  we're just gonna live this day as best as we can.
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  Well, which ultimately, if you, you know, if you think about it with my background as a
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  psychotherapist and, you know, I've seen every iteration of possibility in my career prior to
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  you know, starting to speak in train.
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  And, you know, I literally, I'll give you an example.
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  Like, I was when I was with the Metro Toronto place, I remember I called in, and I was
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  responding, to a massive accident where people had lost 2 children.
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  And, and then the surgeon comes in and says, no, 2 already dead.
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  And he says, to the parents who I'm supporting because I met sick kids.
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  So, by the way, how many children do you have?
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  And I went Oh my goodness.
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  I was like, wow.
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  I was, you know, trying to think that I would not wanna lunge over the table because I was
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  every ounce of what those core parents were going through.
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  And, you know, that element, right, like of what your parents would have gone through or
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  what those parents that I was dealing with dealing with this, that they have to dig really
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  deep to be able to make sense of, you know, something that adverse, right?
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  And, so resilience has always been my thing, probably, why I picked the kind of work, you
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  know, that I my pet.
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  So you got the zipper.
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  So they're telling you how to kinda, you know, not go probably poke everybody in the chest to
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  see where it is.
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  And and and then you're already developing the mindset.
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  Were there some struggles even though they were strong with you?
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  That you kinda go.
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  Yeah.
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  Many many struggles along the way.
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  I mean, so, as an as a young child's from, you know, five, six years old to 13, 14, I was
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  heavily involved in athletics and overcame my small stature to be pretty competitive in
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  soccer and and basketball, ironically.
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  And then at 14, my condition took one of the several turns or deteriorations over a period
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  of time.
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  And I went to a standard biannual checkup.
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  And the doctor said, yeah, you do have to, another issue here with your heart rhythm.
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  And pushing your body to the limits like this is is really getting to be dangerous.
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  So we need you to not do that anymore.
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  And, you know, as a thirteen year old whose identity was largely tied to being an athlete,
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  That was a big deal.
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  And I I would never have articulated it that way then, but in retrospect, it wasn't just the
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  not playing sports.
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  It was the fact that that's who I was.
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  Well, who was I going to be now if I wasn't doing that?
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  And so we had to work, you know, mom and dad helped me work through What are the other
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  outlets?
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  What are other things that you might do?
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  Ironically, I ended up turning to theater, which in the long run, has through me very well
• 15:00
  as speaker because I got used to being on a stage and speaking in front of a lot of people.
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  You were prepping all along.
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  That's right.
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  By the side door not realizing that this adversity was actually developing a scale that,
• 15:13
  you know, the perfect alignments that you end up you know, speaking and what what an, you
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  know, what a what a lovely thing to come out of something that was definitely scary and adverse
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  in in every sense of the world.
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  Yeah.
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  I mean, I I so my summary of what resilience is is that it is not bouncing back, which I think
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  is the most common sort of analogy we're given, be for a couple of reasons.
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  One week, there's no such thing as going back.
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  Right?
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  So to say, like, we're gonna we're gonna return to some previous existence that is gone.
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  Is a pretty faulty goal to start with.
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  And so it's not about bouncing back.
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  It's about growing through.
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  It's about saying How do I get through whatever I need to get through?
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  And we all have a story.
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  We all have things that we have to overcome.
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  And maybe how do I not just get through it, but do I get through it in a way where I am a
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  better version of me than I was before.
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  How do we do that post traumatic growth thing, right, and say, I might not have chosen that
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  adversity but I was forced to face it.
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  How can I use it in some constructive way?
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  And so that was one example of something that wasn't intentionally saying, okay.
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  I'm gonna be a speaker one day.
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  Let's do this.
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  But in retrospect, it was absolutely beneficial that I was forced to find this other outlet
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  because it provided skills that it wouldn't prove helpful later on.
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  So let's talk about mindset.
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  Right?
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  We talked a little bit about, you know, early, context.
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  Your parents setting the stage, I think, within your family system to kind of really bolster
• 16:50
  your siblings in yourself.
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  And I'm sure your siblings often, they had to obviously deal with the fact that their sibling
• 16:56
  is not well.
• 16:58
  As you go along, tell me how, like you said, your your definition is it's not how long
• 17:04
  you're gonna sit down, lay down till you get back up, but it's It's recognizing that how am
• 17:09
  I gonna learn something that's I'm gonna take forward in my life.
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  What what other things like when you think about, you know, When people go through a tough
• 17:20
  time.
• 17:21
  Right?
• 17:21
  And, you know, in your book, I know you talk about some principles, but how do you let's say
• 17:28
  someone you're coaching them or, you know, and and like you said, all all of us have a story.
• 17:33
  Right?
• 17:34
  And we were like, oh my goodness.
• 17:35
  I'm worried about myself, but jeez, I just heard Mark's story.
• 17:38
  Right.
• 17:39
  How do you kind of hold that space mark for them?
• 17:43
  Because I'm sure they're like floored by your story.
• 17:45
  To really have them kinda stay focused on on what they need to do for themselves?
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  Certainly, in my speaking and and then, you know, my coaching as well.
• 17:56
  I've I've had to figure out exactly what you said.
• 18:00
  So I didn't it didn't occur to me.
• 18:03
  Until I begin to analyze the post event conversations with people that my experience
• 18:09
  could become a barrier to that if I didn't contextualize it properly.
• 18:15
  So without my intending it, people would listen and go, well, that's really inspiring, but
• 18:21
  that's him, not me.
• 18:23
  Mhmm.
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  And so now I have to I'm very explicit at the beginning of any program I do.
• 18:28
  To say to people, I I want you to do your best to connect your story to my story, to see your
• 18:34
  challenges and my challenges, to know that I understand we all have a story, and that
• 18:40
  comparison is rarely helpful.
• 18:44
  In the sense of saying, well, like, you're this is my pain and that's your pain and yours is
• 18:49
  worse or or or vice versa.
• 18:51
  What's the benefit in comparing that?
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  There are 2 totally unique experiences.
• 18:57
  And we have each of us a unique experience that we bring to the that to that challenge, any
• 19:04
  unique set of skills to bring to that challenge.
• 19:07
  And so what might be difficult for me might be easy for you and vice versa So let's just put
• 19:12
  the comparison away, first of all.
• 19:13
  And then let's say, can you whatever you can glean from it's useful to you.
• 19:18
  Let's use that.
• 19:19
  And if there's things that aren't particularly relevant, that's okay too.
• 19:23
  I don't profess to have the solution for everybody.
• 19:27
  Here are some things that have worked for me.
• 19:29
  And so that's kind of the context.
• 19:32
  And and then the I think the hardest and most critical piece of the process for all of us,
• 19:38
  myself included, is one of the one of the guide posts in the book, excuse me, is about
• 19:45
  Acceptance.
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  So figuring out, 1, what parts of what are going on right now?
• 19:53
  Am I resist thing in some way.
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  Right?
• 19:57
  So this thing has happened.
• 19:58
  In my case, you're told you need to transplant, or you're told you can't play sports or
• 20:03
  whatever the or or COVID happens and you're a professional speaker who makes all their money
• 20:07
  in front of people.
• 20:08
  And all of a sudden, you can't do that.
• 20:10
  Yeah.
• 20:10
  What parts of this situation do I need to accept and let go of instead of trying to fight
• 20:15
  them so that I have more of my resources available to move forward with with its new
• 20:23
  reality to to adapt constructively, which is the next piece of the framework.
• 20:27
  And and that's what I'm trying to help people do in a in a context of a presentation too is
• 20:32
  saying, look, this was my story.
• 20:35
  What are the parts of your story that you need to let go of, except acknowledge.
• 20:40
  Don't don't pretend they weren't there.
• 20:42
  They were there.
• 20:42
  They happened, or they are happening.
• 20:45
  Don't wanna minimize them, but we have to say at some point, okay.
• 20:49
  Now what am I gonna do about this?
• 20:51
  Mhmm.
• 20:52
  And I I would say that a lot of us or people that I've worked with, either coaching or in my
• 21:00
  when I was in practice is that when we're going through it, oftentimes it's hard to reflect it
• 21:04
  when you think of it.
• 21:05
  Right?
• 21:06
  Like, when you're at the bottom of the, you know, barrel and you're like, looking up
• 21:09
  saying, why me?
• 21:11
  It's kinda hard to get those connections until it.
• 21:13
  You kind of really post event, or as you're going through something, you have to get quiet.
• 21:19
  Like, I talk a lot about in my book.
• 21:21
  Right?
• 21:21
  I talk a lot about you know, without that space where you can really maybe as it's tough, it's
• 21:28
  hard.
• 21:29
  But as you get quiet, then you kind of really start to make, like you said, the connections.
• 21:35
  Right?
• 21:36
  Mhmm.
• 21:36
  But oftentimes our world is so busy and our minds are so busy that, you know, we we talk
• 21:43
  about it, but how many people actually stop to do that?
• 21:47
  I mean, most people don't tell us it's critical.
• 21:50
  Do you find that when you're coaching people that it's something that you really have to
• 21:54
  talk to them about what kind of things they need to do to really make those connections.
• 21:59
  Like you said, you know, like, what can you learn?
• 22:01
  Absolutely.
• 22:02
  Yeah.
• 22:02
  Absolutely.
• 22:03
  You're you're I love that.
• 22:05
  I that idea.
• 22:06
  It's not something I'm
• 22:07
  gonna have to talk about in the book,
• 22:08
  although it absolutely happened for me.
• 22:11
  The last 6 months of waiting for the transplant, I spent in hospital.
• 22:16
  And so there was a lot of time to be quiet and to reflect and to think and to absorb and to
• 22:24
  process and all of those things.
• 22:27
  And that wasn't that was very important.
• 22:31
  It's certainly it's certainly for the acceptance part of that puzzle because if we're
• 22:36
  doing doing doing all the time, then it's very easy to distract ourselves in feeling like
• 22:41
  we're making progress, and we haven't really dealt with this thing over here that we need to
• 22:44
  deal with.
• 22:46
  So, yeah, I agree with you.
• 22:48
  And I and and when I'm working with clients, I guess one of the things I try and do is Just
• 22:56
  provide a sounding board and sometimes an outside perspective where it's appropriate to
• 23:01
  say, have you thought about or, you know, here's what I'm seeing.
• 23:05
  Are you, like, does that resonate with you?
• 23:09
  Because we're in the middle of a crisis or or a challenging situation, it's very hard to see
• 23:16
  the forest for the trees.
• 23:17
  Right?
• 23:17
  It's very hard to see the bigger picture and a little bit of perspective.
• 23:21
  Can sometimes be incredibly helpful and just contextualizing what's going on.
• 23:25
  And maybe this isn't as big of a problem as I perceive it to be, or it is a big problem, but
• 23:33
  here's some things that I might be able to do about it that I couldn't see until I took a
• 23:37
  kind of a 30,000 foot view of it.
• 23:40
  Absolutely.
• 23:40
  And and I think, you know, we we don't I mean, I think we should sound like resilience 1 on 1.
• 23:46
  Like, starting from from, you know, like, JK all the way up through.
• 23:51
  Right?
• 23:51
  Like, we should be teaching these things like we do, like algebra and all those other things
• 23:55
  that sometimes most of don't use because the ability to just recognize and understand.
• 24:01
  We have bodies.
• 24:02
  We have brains, and we have, you know, hearts.
• 24:05
  So we have to learn how to kind of cope with all of those.
• 24:09
  Now you in this new book, the resiliency road map, you have 7 guide posts or guidelines that
• 24:17
  you talk about, and I'm gonna just read them off really quickly.
• 24:20
  And maybe you can kind of, you know, tell the audience a little bit about this
• 24:25
  acknowledgement agency acceptance, adaptation, aspiration, action, and assessment.
• 24:31
  So those are the 7, guides or guide posts that's, or use it.
• 24:36
  So, Mark, if someone's in the and they're like, okay.
• 24:41
  Well, I'm listening to you guys and, you know, and I'm, you know, Mark's been through a thing
• 24:45
  and Roxanne does this or whatever, but they're like, I'm just having a tough, tough time here,
• 24:50
  guys.
• 24:50
  Like, just what would you what guidance would you give them?
• 24:55
  You know, based on some of these.
• 24:58
  Yeah.
• 24:59
  Yeah.
• 25:00
  Well, so the the first one is acknowledgment because I think that's where we we start by
• 25:04
  saying this is hard.
• 25:05
  And then that and that's okay to it's okay to admit that.
• 25:09
  It's okay to recognize that.
• 25:13
  Being resilient doesn't mean we downplay what's going on or pretend like we're not having
• 25:18
  problems when we are.
• 25:18
  In fact, I think it's the opposite.
• 25:20
  It's saying this is a challenge.
• 25:23
  How how am I gonna react?
• 25:24
  How am I gonna respond?
• 25:26
  So the first that's the first piece is just to say, okay.
• 25:28
  Here's what I'm dealing with right now.
• 25:31
  Here's how I'm feeling.
• 25:32
  Here's how this situation is making me feel, and that's okay.
• 25:38
  And and from there, we can then say, okay.
• 25:40
  Now what am I gonna do?
• 25:41
  Agency is about understanding that there is something we can do.
• 25:44
  There is always something we can do.
• 25:47
  Even if that something is as simple as changing how we look at something, because it's some one
• 25:53
  of the the pushbacks I get from folks often is, look, I'm in an environment where it's heavily
• 25:58
  bureaucratic.
• 26:00
  You know, maybe I work for a government agency or whatever the case is.
• 26:03
  And I don't have a lot of autonomy over how I do things and how things operate.
• 26:07
  Like, I'm a cog in this big machine.
• 26:09
  Mhmm.
• 26:10
  And I
• 26:10
  say, okay.
• 26:10
  Well, maybe you don't have decision making power to change how things are done, but you
• 26:15
  have some level of autonomy over how you do what you do.
• 26:18
  And if nothing else, you have an ability to change how you think about what you do.
• 26:23
  And that that matters.
• 26:24
  Right?
• 26:25
  And and, again, this is not I certainly didn't come up with this.
• 26:29
  In fact, that that probably comes from, for me, having read, Victor Rankles work and and
• 26:36
  talking about answers for meeting and talking He I remember him talking about, you know, in a
• 26:41
  concentration camp, figuring out in in arguably, like, is there a situation where you
• 26:46
  have less control?
• 26:47
  Where the future is more dire.
• 26:50
  And yet figuring out a way that he he understood that he had still had the power of
• 26:54
  his own mind.
• 26:56
  And his spirit.
• 26:58
  And as long as he could control those things and use those things, then he had some level of
• 27:03
  autonomy over this situation.
• 27:04
  And there was a certain something that that could not be taken from him.
• 27:10
  And I and I think that's a really empowering thing for all of us to think about is where
• 27:17
  What can I own and know that it can't be can't be taken from me?
• 27:24
  And and it it it also, as you mentioned earlier, I have to be patient with ourselves.
• 27:31
  Right.
• 27:31
  And understand that it's not at like, oh, I'm just gonna read something or, you know, listen
• 27:36
  to Roxanne podcast or read Mark's book and and switch will be flipped, and I'm gonna just be
• 27:41
  able to do all of this instantly.
• 27:42
  Yeah.
• 27:42
  So it's gonna be all good.
• 27:43
  One action.
• 27:45
  Yeah.
• 27:46
  I wish.
• 27:48
  It's an it's like anything else.
• 27:49
  It's a series of skills that we can get better at.
• 27:53
  And that's that's an important flip side of that, which is I also encounter people who will
• 27:59
  say, well, I'm just not like that.
• 28:02
  Like, I'm not a re you're a resilient person.
• 28:04
  I'm not a It's just a set of skills.
• 28:06
  It's just something that we learn and practice, and we can get better at it.
• 28:09
  I'm always getting better at it, at least I hope I am.
• 28:12
  And I get better at it by practicing it.
• 28:14
  So One of the things that you alluded to that I think is so critical is our children.
• 28:19
  And we will, oh, I hear people all the time complaining about kids today and, man, they
• 28:23
  can't handle any kind of challenge and you know, they expect trophies all the time.
• 28:28
  I was like, well, why are they like that?
• 28:30
  Because we raised them.
• 28:32
  Right?
• 28:33
  So whose fault is it?
• 28:35
  And and to instill those skills and kids comes about by intentionally teaching them.
• 28:42
  And also allowing them to experience the obstacles and challenges that will allow them
• 28:47
  to practice those skills.
• 28:49
  And so when we think we're doing great things by shielding kids from failure and challenge
• 28:55
  more more not.
• 28:56
  Right?
• 28:56
  I mean, that's the great probably the greatest gift my parents gave me was that they let me
• 29:03
  fail.
• 29:03
  They let me try things.
• 29:05
  They let me fail.
• 29:06
  They let me suffer the consequences of my bad decisions for the most part.
• 29:12
  And because I think there's a certain amount of those things that you just learned by trial and
• 29:15
  error and, academically learning them is not necessarily gonna get them all the way in.
• 29:23
  Real life university, right, like when, you know, you you you, you know, you fall down you
• 29:28
  know, you'd skin your knee, then they go, oh, well, how did that happen instead of trying to
• 29:35
  make it better for you?
• 29:36
  And I think that's on 4 in in the time that we're in, that too much helicoptering.
• 29:43
  Right?
• 29:43
  People aren't allowing kids to sit with it and and ready to reflect.
• 29:47
  Well, if I did this and this happened, what mim maybe what action could I, you know, or what
• 29:52
  perspective might I kinda think because parents are too busy making it better.
• 29:57
  And I think, you know, a bit of having them sit with it means that you can't bail them out
• 30:03
  because you want them to learn lessons, but a lot of people are too busy trying to make nice
• 30:08
  or make better because I don't want kids to go through what I went through, but really there's
• 30:12
  a lot resilience is formed from your mistakes, and we're all gonna make mistakes of, you know,
• 30:17
  and I make them often until we die.
• 30:19
  And that continues to make us bills as as, you know, as people, right, as part of families, as
• 30:26
  part of the communities, those types of things.
• 30:28
  Yeah.
• 30:28
  No.
• 30:29
  Abs absolutely.
• 30:30
  The, you know, I I say to folks, Look, I hope you read this book, but ultimately, we'll only
• 30:35
  do you as much good as you then implement and and practice and see how it fits into your day
• 30:43
  to day life because to know it and to do it are different.
• 30:47
  And so we have to we have to practice this stuff.
• 30:51
  We have to do it over and over again.
• 30:53
  And, you know, it's interesting.
• 30:56
  I just did an event last week for, university recruiters And we had a conversation
• 31:02
  afterwards.
• 31:02
  I said, I I I actually asked.
• 31:04
  It was the VP academic at the university who was there.
• 31:07
  And I said, is it I'm hearing these stories about, like, parents going into the admission
• 31:13
  interview with their with their kids and or arguing with the admission staff afterwards
• 31:19
  about why their kid didn't get but they really should have, and you made a mistake.
• 31:22
  And is any of that true?
• 31:23
  And you said it's all true, and it's worse than you have heard.
• 31:27
  And that's what it right?
• 31:29
  And so what is that teaching our kids?
• 31:32
  Right?
• 31:32
  It's it's we're we think we're helping But ultimately, we're, I think, handicapping them
• 31:39
  because we're not allowing them to develop the tools they're going to need to deal with the
• 31:44
  adversity that is inevitable in all of our lives.
• 31:47
  Absolutely.
• 31:47
  And I I, worked in, executive health and wellness.
• 31:53
  And the some of the companies I managed, like, let's say it's a law firm and then the let's
• 31:58
  say that Artling kid wants to get into the law firm and doesn't get in.
• 32:03
  So I had parents calling the HR manager of the law firm.
• 32:09
  And I'm like, this can't be happening, but it it was happening.
• 32:13
  We were seeing it across Canada, you know, unfortunately.
• 32:17
  So then what skills are you actually, you know, teaching or allowing that young adult to learn
• 32:23
  because you're taking over.
• 32:24
  These are things we all were clueless when we twenty something and trying to figure it out
• 32:28
  the world.
• 32:29
  Right?
• 32:30
  But I think of, you know, that you're right.
• 32:31
  That pendulum swing has gone too far, and we need to kind of guide people to get back to the
• 32:36
  basics of of learning to cope.
• 32:38
  And when you fall down, what are you gonna do?
• 32:41
  Yeah.
• 32:41
  And you're right.
• 32:42
  I like that idea of pendulum swing because it's not it's not to say, you know, let's make our
• 32:47
  kids live difficult on purpose.
• 32:50
  But can we Can we support them by being there afterwards to help them debrief it and and
• 32:59
  learn from it?
• 33:00
  Instead of trying to prevent the adversity of rehappening in the in the first place.
• 33:06
  Because at some point, some point, we're not gonna be there to do that for them.
• 33:10
  And it's better to learn the skills when the stakes are lower.
• 33:16
  Rather have my kid learn the consequences of not working hard by failing the test in grade 6
• 33:22
  than getting fired from their job later on, for example.
• 33:25
  Right?
• 33:26
  So let's just shift a little bit.
• 33:28
  I know we're almost a time, but, with companies that might call you in to either do training or
• 33:35
  speaking.
• 33:35
  Right?
• 33:36
  Now let's say if they say that, you know, employees don't cope so well.
• 33:41
  You know, they're always making a big thing about little things and, what do you kind of
• 33:48
  when you're having those initial conversations with them, What's what kind of things are you
• 33:53
  what kind of discussions are might you be having with leadership about what their needs
• 33:58
  are in reference to the kind of the umbrella of zomians.
• 34:01
  Do do do do kind of overall, strategic kind of, overview on the organization, or how do you
• 34:09
  kind of approach maybe calls like that from this, you know, the head of HR
• 34:14
  O.
• 34:14
  Mhmm.
• 34:15
  Well, and so first of all, that's that's exactly why I get called is is they say things
• 34:21
  like that.
• 34:21
  They say, look, we're going through major changes and people are not adjusting well.
• 34:27
  Or people are making a lot of excuses, or there is not performing up to what we know they're
• 34:32
  capable of doing.
• 34:35
  And I say ironically COVID, was a great blessing to my business because it it it
• 34:42
  revealed to think I think a lot of things that were already there and just amplify them, and
• 34:46
  or sped them up.
• 34:47
  But in many ways, this has changed management stuff.
• 34:50
  Right?
• 34:51
  It's saying, okay.
• 34:51
  How do how do we effectively adapt to new and changing environments.
• 34:57
  And that's, again, one of the guideposts is about being adaptable.
• 35:02
  And I would submit that adaptability, resilience slash adaptability, is going to be
• 35:09
  the most critical skill of the next 100 years.
• 35:12
  Like, the pace of change is not slowing.
• 35:14
  It's getting faster.
• 35:16
  And so if you're going to remain relevant useful in your organization, you're going to
• 35:23
  need to be adaptable.
• 35:24
  The the days of saying, This is what I do.
• 35:27
  This is who I work for.
• 35:28
  This is what I do, and I'm gonna keep working for this company and doing these things for 40
• 35:33
  years, and then I'll retire.
• 35:35
  It doesn't exist anymore.
• 35:37
  Right?
• 35:37
  Like, those days are over.
• 35:39
  And so we have to be continuous learners.
• 35:42
  We have to be flexible.
• 35:44
  We have to be willing to try new things.
• 35:47
  We have to be willing to understand that what solved today's problem might not solve
• 35:51
  tomorrow's problem.
• 35:52
  All of those things.
• 35:53
  And and the good news is I think we're all capable of that, but we have to believe that we
• 35:58
  are agency and then and then practice it.
• 36:05
  Abs absolutely.
• 36:06
  I completely agree with you.
• 36:08
  So Mark, I know we're a time.
• 36:11
  So why don't you share with people, where they can get the book and also where they can get
• 36:17
  ahold of you Whether they wanna find over your coaching or your training or you coming to
• 36:21
  speak in an event at their company.
• 36:23
  Thanks so much for that.
• 36:24
  So the book, the easiest place to find the book is the resilience road mapbook.com, and you can
• 36:32
  find out all about me at markblack dotca because we're Canadian, and some gentleman owns
• 36:39
  markblack.com in the US and he won't sell it to me.
• 36:41
  So so it's markblack.ca.
• 36:44
  But the book is the resilience romac.com.
• 36:46
  You'll find the book on my website as well, though, but but that's where the book is linked
• 36:50
  directly to the book.
• 36:52
  Yeah.
• 36:53
  And I I I mean, it's a as you know, it's a great privilege to get to do what we do and to
• 36:57
  be able to go into organizations and hopefully help them to be more productive, more
• 37:03
  effective, and to help their people to to find greater satisfaction and fulfillment in what
• 37:10
  they do.
• 37:12
  Yeah, be a play it would be a pleasure for me to to do that.
• 37:15
  What an inspiration mark?
• 37:17
  Just listening to your story.
• 37:18
  So what am I taking away?
• 37:20
  You know, I think what I liked the most about what Mark said was is it's not about the
• 37:27
  definition that we hear out there, but it's really learning from each experience and
• 37:32
  saying, what can I do better or differently the next time?
• 37:36
  We're all gonna go through a lot of things.
• 37:39
  Unfortunately, unfortunately, that is the part of being human in his life.
• 37:43
  Individually, we make up companies.
• 37:45
  We make up communities.
• 37:47
  We are part of our families.
• 37:49
  Take that with you.
• 37:51
  And for anyone that, what have I been up to?
• 37:54
  I've just launched my book r o r.
• 37:56
  Return on relationships where I talk to leaders about their capacity to be connected to
• 38:01
  themselves to more effectively lead their teams if you're interested in getting a com copy, you
• 38:08
  can go to Amazon or you could go to my website, roxannedermarch.com, again, Mark, thanks again
• 38:14
  for your time and for everybody.
• 38:15
  Thanks for hanging out with us, and we'll talk to you again next week.
• 38:19
  Take care.
• 38:20
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive,
• 38:25
  healthy change.
• 38:27
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
• 38:33
  rocksandurhaj.com/blueprint.
• 38:37
  We'll see you next time.
• 38:39
  On authentic living with Roxanne.