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Mega Edition: Bryan Kohberger And The Arraignment Hearing (9/20/26) · Beyond The Horizon

0:00
Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome back to the program. So
0:04
Speaker 1: Brian Kohlberger had his day in court yesterday and during
0:08
Speaker 1: those proceedings, Judge Judge was taking a look at camera
0:12
Speaker 1: access inside of the courtroom for the Brian Kohlberger trial
0:17
Speaker 1: moving forward. And just like we thought, he didn't come
0:20
Speaker 1: to a ruling yesterday, but he certainly had some strong
0:24
Speaker 1: words for the media and their behavior. And as much
0:27
Speaker 1: as I want transparency here, I don't think the judge
0:30
Speaker 1: is wrong to admonish the media a little bit and
0:33
Speaker 1: let them know that they need to be on their
0:35
Speaker 1: P's and Q's. Because we have seen instances in the
0:38
Speaker 1: past where the media has been absolutely in the wrong.
0:42
Speaker 1: But I don't think we could say that about what's
0:44
Speaker 1: going on up here in Moscow. Now, has there been
0:48
Speaker 1: some wild coverage? Of course there has been. But the
0:51
Speaker 1: vast majority of that stupidity has come from places like TikTok.
0:55
Speaker 1: You know, like the tarot card reader who said that
0:57
Speaker 1: the professor killed these kids. Yeah, that kind of stupidity.
1:02
Speaker 1: But for the most part, the media has done their
1:05
Speaker 1: best to get information out in this case. Unfortunately, there's
1:10
Speaker 1: been the non-dissemination order hanging over this case from pretty
1:14
Speaker 1: much the beginning. So, besides a little bit here and there,
1:18
Speaker 1: there's not much coming out about what's going on here, unless,
1:22
Speaker 1: of course, you're following along with the court documents. And
1:26
Speaker 1: chances are, if you're listening to this episode... You've been
1:29
Speaker 1: doing just that. So, why don't we get a recap
1:32
Speaker 1: of what went down yesterday and where things stand now
1:36
Speaker 1: after Judge Judge held the hearing. And to do that,
1:40
Speaker 1: we're going to use an article from the Daily Mail. Headline,
1:44
Speaker 1: Judge and Idaho murder suspect Brian Koberger case asks the
1:48
Speaker 1: press to back off and questions whether he can trust
1:51
Speaker 1: the media to do the right thing. This article was
1:54
Speaker 1: authored by Stephen M. Lepore. The judge in the Brian
1:59
Speaker 1: Koberger murder trial is asking the media to back off
2:03
Speaker 1: after he criticized their coverage of the case, while refusing
2:07
Speaker 1: to give a definitive ruling on whether the trial can
2:11
Speaker 1: be televised. And I've said for a while now that
2:14
Speaker 1: I don't think Judge is going to acquiesce and let
2:17
Speaker 1: cameras be in the courtroom full-time. Now, we might see
2:20
Speaker 1: something on a limited basis, but... I don't think so,
2:24
Speaker 1: especially the recent ruling about Lori Vallow and how cameras
2:28
Speaker 1: were barred from her trial. So they have precedent already
2:32
Speaker 1: right here in Idaho that the judge can lean on
2:35
Speaker 1: and say, hey, look, the last high profile case in
2:38
Speaker 1: the state, we didn't have cameras in the courtroom. We
2:41
Speaker 1: don't need them here. And that's the end of it.
2:44
Speaker 1: And I think that's where this is all heading. Kohlberger
2:48
Speaker 1: is charged with four counts of murder in connection with
2:51
Speaker 1: the deaths at a rental house near the university campus
2:54
Speaker 1: in Moscow, Idaho, last November. Judge John Judge presided over
2:59
Speaker 1: a hearing Wednesday where a coalition of media members, alongside
3:03
Speaker 1: the prosecution, lobbied to have the trial photographed, televised, and
3:08
Speaker 1: even live-streamed. The judge said the media has pushed the
3:11
Speaker 1: envelope with its coverage of the case and questioned whether
3:15
Speaker 1: the media has a right to intervene in the trial.
3:18
Speaker 1: He dismissed the hearing without making a definitive ruling on
3:22
Speaker 1: whether the trial would have cameras. And honestly, that's what
3:25
Speaker 1: I expected. I really didn't expect any sort of ruling yet.
3:29
Speaker 1: It's a little too early for the ruling to come down.
3:32
Speaker 1: But I think it's relatively obvious which way Judge Judge
3:35
Speaker 1: at this point is leaning. And it seems to be
3:39
Speaker 1: that he has no stomach for the media and the
3:42
Speaker 1: media inside of his courtroom. Defense attorneys for Kohlberger lobbied
3:47
Speaker 1: for either the cameras to be removed from the courtroom or,
3:50
Speaker 1: at the very least, put in a different location, with
3:53
Speaker 1: worries that the proceedings will turn into a circus. They're
3:57
Speaker 1: going to turn into a circus no matter what. You
4:00
Speaker 1: don't think people are just going to show up here
4:02
Speaker 1: and be on the courthouse steps out in the parking lot?
4:05
Speaker 1: Because that's what's going to happen. There's going to be
4:08
Speaker 1: about 5 million media trucks pulled up, satellite trucks, all
4:12
Speaker 1: the rest of it. and they're going to set up
4:14
Speaker 1: shop in Moscow. And never mind the weirdo brigade that's
4:17
Speaker 1: going to follow. Oh, what? You thought that the TikTok
4:20
Speaker 1: tarot card reader people and the spirit boxers and the
4:23
Speaker 1: psychics weren't going to show up to get their griff going?
4:27
Speaker 1: Make sure you smash the like button. Judge agreed, citing
4:30
Speaker 1: the OJ Simpson trial of the century that was on
4:33
Speaker 1: television for hours each day for weeks. If anyone watched
4:38
Speaker 1: that case, it was a circus. Well, yeah, but did
4:42
Speaker 1: OJ end up getting found guilty? No, he was innocent, right?
4:46
Speaker 1: So that throws the whole media attention being prejudicial right
4:51
Speaker 1: out the window. If you're going to refer to the
4:53
Speaker 1: OJ Simpson trial and call it a circus, it certainly
4:57
Speaker 1: was that. But to act like that circus led to
5:00
Speaker 1: OJ Simpson not getting a fair shake is a joke.
5:04
Speaker 1: Not only did the dude get a fair shake, he
5:06
Speaker 1: ended up getting away with a crime in my opinion,
5:09
Speaker 1: so this door swings both ways. It's not the same
5:13
Speaker 1: media it is now as it was 10 years ago
5:16
Speaker 1: with social media, Judge added. Arguing attention to cases has
5:21
Speaker 1: spun out of control. He ended by saying the arguments
5:24
Speaker 1: were still under consideration before dismissing the hearing. At Koberger's
5:29
Speaker 1: arraignment in May, the judge entered a not guilty plea
5:33
Speaker 1: on the defendant's behalf to four counts of first-degree murder
5:36
Speaker 1: and a burglary charge for the deaths of Madison Mogan,
5:40
Speaker 1: Ethan Chapin, Zanna Kernodle, and Kaylee Gonsalves. Following his arrest,
5:45
Speaker 1: Koberger said he is looking forward to being exonerated. Prosecutors,
5:50
Speaker 1: on the other hand, allege that investigators found his DNA
5:54
Speaker 1: on a knife sheath found beside Mogan's body. During a
5:58
Speaker 1: late June hearing, the judge said that cameras in Moscow, Idaho,
6:02
Speaker 1: where the trial will be held, need to show a
6:04
Speaker 1: wide shot of the courtroom and not focus exclusively on Kohlberger.
6:09
Speaker 1: And I think that's a fair requirement if there's going
6:12
Speaker 1: to be cameras having on a wide shot. That's not
6:14
Speaker 1: too difficult for anybody involved. And if the media can't
6:18
Speaker 1: do that, then you should penalize them. But I don't
6:21
Speaker 1: think that arbitrarily dropping penalties on people and saying that
6:26
Speaker 1: they're going to do this or they're going to do
6:28
Speaker 1: that is a good idea. We don't know which way
6:31
Speaker 1: things are going to break. So I think the judge
6:34
Speaker 1: should let the cameras be in the courtroom and play
6:37
Speaker 1: it by ear. Give the media a short rope. And
6:40
Speaker 1: if they F around, well, they'll have to find out.
6:43
Speaker 1: Kohlberger's defense attorney, Jay Logsdon, cited the judge's warning during
6:48
Speaker 1: his filing to remove cameras. Arguing subsequent coverage of the
6:52
Speaker 1: allegations against Kohlberger is biasing potential area jurors against him.
6:58
Speaker 1: Observer's continued failure to comply with the court's June 27th
7:03
Speaker 1: directive compounds this problem and results in the potential jury
7:07
Speaker 1: pool's constant inundation with conclusory accusations and sensationalistic nonsense guised
7:14
Speaker 1: as factual reporting and analysis. He wrote in a filing
7:18
Speaker 1: made public late last month So in other words, what
7:21
Speaker 1: Logsdon really means is, we don't have any evidence, so
7:25
Speaker 1: we're going to attack the process. And everybody's being mean
7:28
Speaker 1: to Brian Kohlberger. Well, we've all seen the evidence, Jay Logsdon.
7:33
Speaker 1: You're going to get your fair shake in court. You're
7:35
Speaker 1: going to get your day in front of the jury.
7:37
Speaker 1: But don't think for a minute that the rest of
7:39
Speaker 1: us are just going to sit here and act like,
7:42
Speaker 1: you know, everything's all good or like your client's getting
7:45
Speaker 1: railroaded because I haven't seen one bit of that. In fact,
7:49
Speaker 1: I think the state of Idaho is going above and
7:51
Speaker 1: beyond with their treatment of Brian Kohlberger. Just look in
7:55
Speaker 1: comparison to the way Rex Heuermann's being treated in New York.
8:00
Speaker 1: The court will make the final decision about the role
8:02
Speaker 1: that cameras will play in the murder trial. A hearing
8:05
Speaker 1: about the issue was scheduled on Wednesday. Judges have made
8:10
Speaker 1: differing calls across high-profile cases in the past. Alec Murdaugh
8:15
Speaker 1: and OJ Simpson sat through trials that were televised live
8:19
Speaker 1: to the American public. Cult mom Lori Vallow, on the
8:22
Speaker 1: other hand, had her trial primarily taken off by a judge.
8:27
Speaker 1: And I think that that trial is the one we
8:29
Speaker 1: should look at considering it was so recent and it
8:32
Speaker 1: was here in Idaho. So it sets precedent for Judge
8:36
Speaker 1: Judge and it gives him a pass here if he
8:38
Speaker 1: wants to get rid of cameras. All he has to
8:41
Speaker 1: do is refer to the decision made by Judge Boyce
8:44
Speaker 1: with Lori Vallow as the reason why he's making the
8:47
Speaker 1: decision to bar cameras from the courtroom of Brian Kohlberger's trial.
8:53
Speaker 1: Prior to the grisly murders, Kohlberger was studying for a Ph.D.
8:56
Speaker 1: in criminology at Washington State University, just 10 miles from
9:01
Speaker 1: the University of Idaho, where the four victims were students.
9:06
Speaker 1: If convicted, Kohlberger may face the death penalty. Not may,
9:09
Speaker 1: he will. I have no doubt in my mind that
9:12
Speaker 1: if he's convicted, that conviction will come with the death penalty.
9:18
Speaker 1: Detectives relied on genetic genealogy to build their case against Kohlberger,
9:22
Speaker 1: using genetic genealogy to build the DNA profile from the
9:26
Speaker 1: DNA left on a knife sheath at the scene. The
9:30
Speaker 1: FBI tracked down Kohlberger by tracing his distant relatives through
9:34
Speaker 1: genetic genealogy databases and then secretly collected a sample of
9:38
Speaker 1: his father's DNA to confirm his identity. Police say DNA
9:43
Speaker 1: found on the knife sheath left at the Idaho murder
9:46
Speaker 1: scene is a statistical match to a cheek swab taken
9:50
Speaker 1: from the suspect after his arrest. Now remember, right when
9:53
Speaker 1: Brian Koberger was arrested, in the warrant, they had the
9:57
Speaker 1: right to get that buccal swab. So right then... and there,
10:00
Speaker 1: they had all the equipment and they swabbed his ass
10:03
Speaker 1: at the scene. During previous hearings, prosecutors have insisted that
10:08
Speaker 1: Kohlberger provides witnesses that can sport an alibi. However, his
10:13
Speaker 1: defense said at the time, there is not a specific
10:16
Speaker 1: witness to say precisely where Kohlberger was That means there
10:21
Speaker 1: is no witness. If he had a witness or somebody
10:24
Speaker 1: that could place him somewhere else, you don't think they
10:26
Speaker 1: would have trotted that person out already? He was out
10:30
Speaker 1: driving during the late night and early morning hours of
10:33
Speaker 1: November 12th and 13th of 2022, attorneys said, adding that
10:38
Speaker 1: he is not claiming to be at a specific location
10:41
Speaker 1: at a specific time. So it's just a bunch of P.S.
10:45
Speaker 1: Just something to throw out there to hopefully make the
10:48
Speaker 1: waters a little more murky. Prosecutors have demanded more specifics
10:53
Speaker 1: over his alleged alibi and say that driving in the
10:57
Speaker 1: area does not exonerate him and instead places him at
11:00
Speaker 1: the scene. Kohlberger's lawyers have claimed he had a habit
11:04
Speaker 1: of going for drives alone at night and did so
11:07
Speaker 1: on the night of the killing. Oh, okay, well, we
11:10
Speaker 1: should all just get on board with that. Not like,
11:12
Speaker 1: you know, Four kids are murdered in their home or
11:15
Speaker 1: anything like that. Not like Koberger's DNA was found at
11:18
Speaker 1: the home on a knife sheath. Not like he pinged
11:21
Speaker 1: at the cell phone towers right near the house. Nah,
11:24
Speaker 1: none of that happened. He was just out for a drive,
11:27
Speaker 1: having a listen to Tony Robbins. I mean, stop with
11:30
Speaker 1: the BS. Nobody's buying this. Last month, Koberger waived his
11:35
Speaker 1: right to a speedy trial, thereby delaying his original October
11:39
Speaker 1: 2nd trial date. Despite wanting to come to a resolution
11:43
Speaker 1: as soon as possible, the prosecution did not object, agreeing
11:47
Speaker 1: that the delay was the best option. A hearing is
11:51
Speaker 1: currently set for September 22nd, at which there will be
11:55
Speaker 1: further discussion of a trial date. During the August hearing,
11:59
Speaker 1: when Koberger waived his right to a speedy trial, relatives
12:02
Speaker 1: of Slane University of Idaho student Kaylee Gonsalves were allegedly
12:07
Speaker 1: seen taunting Koberger with a pro-death penalty t-shirt. Oh, give
12:12
Speaker 1: me a break. Who cares? They can wear whatever they want.
12:16
Speaker 1: Their daughter was killed. Their loved one was killed. I
12:19
Speaker 1: don't care if Koberger's a little bit offended or anybody
12:22
Speaker 1: else is a little bit offended. I'd want the death
12:25
Speaker 1: penalty too, and I'd be saying it a lot louder
12:27
Speaker 1: than just wearing a t-shirt. In June, prosecutors indicated they
12:33
Speaker 1: would pursue the death penalty against Koberger. The family of
12:36
Speaker 1: Gonsalves shared an emotional message on Facebook hours before the hearing,
12:42
Speaker 1: expressing fear that Kohlberger's trial would be delayed. Please pray
12:46
Speaker 1: for our family today, they wrote. We want to get
12:49
Speaker 1: this trial over. Just thinking it could be years absolutely
12:53
Speaker 1: kills me. We are afraid he is going to waive
12:56
Speaker 1: his right to a speedy trial, the post read. If
12:59
Speaker 1: he does, trial will not be starting on October 2nd,
13:03
Speaker 1: and it's very likely that it won't take place for years.
13:07
Speaker 1: While the hearing was closed to the media and public,
13:09
Speaker 1: families of the victims were allowed to attend via Zoom.
13:14
Speaker 1: All right, well, things broke exactly the way we thought
13:17
Speaker 1: they would. But I think that Judge Judge certainly gave
13:20
Speaker 1: us some clues about the way that he's leaning. And
13:23
Speaker 1: I think that he's leaning towards no cameras being allowed
13:27
Speaker 1: in the courtroom. But we'll keep an eye on things, obviously.
13:30
Speaker 1: And when we get more information, we'll get it added
13:33
Speaker 1: to the catalog. If you'd like to contact me, you
13:37
Speaker 1: can do that at bobbycapucci at protonmail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at protonmail.com.
13:48
Speaker 1: All of the information that goes with this episode can
13:50
Speaker 1: be found in the description box. What's up, everyone, and
13:55
Speaker 1: welcome back to the program. Brian Koberger will be making
14:00
Speaker 1: his way to court in Ada County today to face
14:03
Speaker 1: an arraignment for the quadruple homicide in Moscow. Now Brian
14:08
Speaker 1: Koberger is expected to enter a not guilty plea during
14:13
Speaker 1: today's hearing and once he enters that plea the state
14:16
Speaker 1: of Idaho has 60 days to announce if they're going
14:20
Speaker 1: to go after capital murder charges or not. So today
14:25
Speaker 1: in this episode what we're going to do is talk
14:27
Speaker 1: about Brian Koberger's arraignment today and what to expect. So
14:33
Speaker 1: Let's dive into this article from Fox News and let's
14:36
Speaker 1: get caught up. Headline, Idaho murder suspect, Brian Koberger's arraignment.
14:42
Speaker 1: What to expect? This article was authored by Michael Ruiz.
14:48
Speaker 1: Brian Koberger, the 28-year-old criminology buff accused of ambushing sleeping
14:53
Speaker 1: college students with a large knife in November, is expected
14:57
Speaker 1: to be arraigned Monday morning on murder and other charges.
15:01
Speaker 1: And if he finally enters a plea, it would trigger
15:04
Speaker 1: a countdown, given prosecutors two months to officially announce that
15:09
Speaker 1: they are seeking the death penalty in connection with the
15:12
Speaker 1: ambush slayings of Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, as well as
15:17
Speaker 1: Zanna Kernodle and Ethan Chapin. And all signs point to
15:22
Speaker 1: this becoming a capital punishment case. Now, we've seen the
15:26
Speaker 1: state make a U-turn before. And we've seen the prosecution
15:30
Speaker 1: decide to go a different way. But I don't expect
15:34
Speaker 1: that in this case. I think that there is going
15:36
Speaker 1: to be a lot of pressure on Bill Thompson to
15:39
Speaker 1: not only make this a capital murder case, but to
15:42
Speaker 1: get that ball pushed over the goal line. Upon entry
15:47
Speaker 1: of plea, the most morbid of all clocks starts ticking.
15:51
Speaker 1: The prosecuting attorney has 60 days to file, in writing,
15:55
Speaker 1: a notice of intent to seek the death penalty. said
15:58
Speaker 1: Edwina Elcox, a prominent Boise-based defense attorney who previously represented
16:03
Speaker 1: Colt Mom Lori Vallow. There are several potential outcomes, although
16:08
Speaker 1: experts say surprises are always possible. Possible scenarios in court
16:13
Speaker 1: on Monday. He'll likely plead not guilty or not enter
16:17
Speaker 1: a plea at all. A guilty plea would be highly
16:20
Speaker 1: unlikely given Kohlberger's defense team just added the high-powered Alyssa
16:26
Speaker 1: Messoth according to Elcox. So yeah, like I said, all
16:29
Speaker 1: of the signs certainly point to this being a capital
16:32
Speaker 1: punishment case, especially when you see both sides bulking up
16:36
Speaker 1: their defense team with capital punishment qualified lawyers, right? Usually
16:42
Speaker 1: means that they're going to be facing capital punishment charges,
16:45
Speaker 1: or else we wouldn't see this kind of bolstering of
16:49
Speaker 1: the defense or the prosecution. Because remember, the prosecution has
16:53
Speaker 1: added more prosecutors to this case as well. So They're
16:57
Speaker 1: going all out. And all signs certainly, as of right
17:01
Speaker 1: now anyway, point to this being a death penalty case. Massoth,
17:06
Speaker 1: once attended the same college as the four victims, is
17:09
Speaker 1: certified to defend the death penalty cases and boasts of
17:13
Speaker 1: being one of the top criminal defense lawyers in Idaho.
17:17
Speaker 1: One of her previous cases includes the overturning of a
17:20
Speaker 1: conviction for a man accused of attempted murder and kidnapping.
17:24
Speaker 1: The case appeared on America's Most Wanted and he received
17:27
Speaker 1: four consecutive life sentences plus 50 years, according to the
17:32
Speaker 1: National Registry of Exonerations. Imagine they give you four consecutive
17:37
Speaker 1: life sentences, and then the judge is like, you know what?
17:39
Speaker 1: On top of that, we're going to add another 50.
17:42
Speaker 1: Just in case somehow you live through these four life sentences, well,
17:46
Speaker 1: here's another 50 on top of that for good measure.
17:49
Speaker 1: If the entry of a plea is postponed, he would
17:52
Speaker 1: likely be due back in court in a couple of weeks.
17:55
Speaker 1: If he does enter a plea... The 60-day countdown begins
17:58
Speaker 1: for prosecutors to formally file their intent to seek the
18:02
Speaker 1: death penalty. Idaho recently reinstated the firing squad as an option.
18:08
Speaker 1: And remember that had to do with the chemicals as
18:11
Speaker 1: far as getting them and providing them for these executions.
18:16
Speaker 1: A lot of the companies that were doing that aren't
18:18
Speaker 1: down with it anymore. And some of these states are
18:21
Speaker 1: having difficulty procuring the chemicals that they need for the
18:24
Speaker 1: cocktail to make the poison, I guess you would call it,
18:28
Speaker 1: for the lethal injection. So what the state of Idaho
18:31
Speaker 1: has done is they've went back and they put this
18:34
Speaker 1: new law on the books, or reinstated an old law,
18:37
Speaker 1: I guess you should say, and that is death by
18:40
Speaker 1: firing squad. That way the state has a way to
18:42
Speaker 1: carry out the death penalty when that sentence is handed
18:46
Speaker 1: down by a judge and jury. Whether Kohlberger enters a
18:50
Speaker 1: plea or not, another countdown will also kick off. A
18:53
Speaker 1: six-month deadline for his constitutionally protected right to a speedy trial,
18:58
Speaker 1: Elcox told Fox News Digital. If there's a plea deal
19:01
Speaker 1: in the works, it's likely not going to be announced
19:04
Speaker 1: on Monday. The best the defense could hope for in
19:08
Speaker 1: this case would be to plead to the murder charges
19:11
Speaker 1: while avoiding the death penalty, Elcox said. And that's possible.
19:15
Speaker 1: I don't find it likely to happen, but it's certainly
19:17
Speaker 1: a possibility. Sometimes when the defense team gets discovery and
19:22
Speaker 1: they start looking through all the evidence, they start to
19:24
Speaker 1: understand very quickly that there's no way that their client's
19:27
Speaker 1: going to get off. So they'll go to the table
19:30
Speaker 1: with the prosecution in hopes of getting the death penalty
19:34
Speaker 1: at the very least taken off the table if their
19:37
Speaker 1: client will admit to the murders. Now, I don't find
19:40
Speaker 1: that likely here and I don't think that's going to happen,
19:43
Speaker 1: but that is something that we do see sometimes when
19:46
Speaker 1: the evidence is just overwhelming. A scheduling conference. and hearing
19:51
Speaker 1: on a defense motion to compel discovery are also on
19:54
Speaker 1: the calendar, although the arraignment may bump them back. I
19:58
Speaker 1: do not think we get many surprises, said Paul Morrow,
20:01
Speaker 1: a New York-based attorney and former NYPD inspector. If I
20:05
Speaker 1: had to guess, he pleads not guilty. We do not
20:08
Speaker 1: get a ruling on the discovery motion regarding the DNA.
20:12
Speaker 1: And we do get some scheduling dates. I think that's
20:15
Speaker 1: pretty fair, what he's saying right there. I don't think
20:18
Speaker 1: we're going to get a whole bunch today. We're going
20:20
Speaker 1: to get some dates. We're going to get some bookkeeping done.
20:23
Speaker 1: And we're going to get a better idea of what's
20:26
Speaker 1: going to happen moving forward. But as far as any
20:29
Speaker 1: revelations in the case, or any breakthroughs or news... I
20:34
Speaker 1: don't think we're going to get any of that from
20:36
Speaker 1: the arraignment today. But it's going to kick everything into motion.
20:40
Speaker 1: Not only the 60 days, but the clock starts ticking
20:43
Speaker 1: for a trial now as well. It's been almost five
20:46
Speaker 1: months since Koberger's December 30th arrest at his parents' house
20:50
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania's Pocono Mountains. And seven months since police allege
20:56
Speaker 1: he entered an off-campus home and stabbed four University of
21:00
Speaker 1: Idaho students inside. with two others narrowly escaping. The suspected
21:07
Speaker 1: killer was a student at the nearby Washington State University,
21:10
Speaker 1: less than 10 miles away, where he was trying to
21:13
Speaker 1: get a Ph.D. in the Department of Criminal Justice and Criminology.
21:18
Speaker 1: But on November 13th, around 4 a.m., on a Saturday,
21:23
Speaker 1: as both schools were approaching Thanksgiving break, police allege that
21:27
Speaker 1: Koberger crept into the King Road home with a knife,
21:30
Speaker 1: massacred the students and slipped out the back door. And
21:34
Speaker 1: I still can't shake the feeling that he chose this
21:38
Speaker 1: time frame, especially to cause the mass amount of damage
21:42
Speaker 1: that he could as far as collateral damage around the holidays,
21:46
Speaker 1: killing people right around Thanksgiving and Christmas. So now the families, well,
21:51
Speaker 1: every time the holidays roll around, what do you think
21:54
Speaker 1: they're going to think about? Have any of you out
21:56
Speaker 1: there lost a loved one on a holiday? And I'm
22:00
Speaker 1: not talking about the murder, just in general. I know
22:03
Speaker 1: that my uncle passed away on St. Paddy's Day, and St.
22:06
Speaker 1: Paddy's Day has not been the same for me ever since.
22:09
Speaker 1: So I can't even imagine Thanksgiving and Christmas knowing that
22:13
Speaker 1: this occurred right around that time. When the family's all
22:16
Speaker 1: supposed to be getting together, the kids are coming home
22:19
Speaker 1: from school, your cousin Joe's coming over from wherever trailer
22:23
Speaker 1: park he's living in, you get the drift. But now
22:26
Speaker 1: that's all finished. That's all done. And these holidays, they're
22:30
Speaker 1: never going to be the same again for these families.
22:33
Speaker 1: And I'm truly convinced that Kohlberger chose this time frame
22:37
Speaker 1: for maximum impact. And when you look at it framed
22:40
Speaker 1: like that, it makes these crimes even more heinous. One
22:44
Speaker 1: housemate saw a masked man with bushy eyebrows after hearing
22:47
Speaker 1: sounds of a struggle, according to court documents. And detectives
22:51
Speaker 1: alleged that Kohlberger returned to the crime scene once again
22:55
Speaker 1: Hours after the murders. Imagine being that brazen. Oh yeah,
23:00
Speaker 1: I just murdered four people in their home. I'm going
23:02
Speaker 1: to go home, take a quick shower, catch a couple
23:05
Speaker 1: of episodes of South Park or whatever, and then I'm
23:08
Speaker 1: going to hop back in the whip at 9 a.m.
23:10
Speaker 1: and shoot back over to King Road to see what's
23:12
Speaker 1: cracking off. And then imagine showing up there and seeing
23:15
Speaker 1: no cops. Talk about getting spooked. Kohlberger goes back to
23:19
Speaker 1: admire his handiwork and nothing's cracking off. For months, he
23:23
Speaker 1: has sat in the Latah County Jail in Moscow, Idaho,
23:26
Speaker 1: where a magistrate judge, Megan Marshall, ordered him held without bail.
23:31
Speaker 1: After a grand jury indicted him on four charges of
23:34
Speaker 1: first-degree murder and a count of felony burglary, his plans
23:38
Speaker 1: to fight the evidence used to arrest him at a
23:41
Speaker 1: preliminary hearing scheduled for the end of June are out
23:44
Speaker 1: the window. So that whole entire strategy that they were
23:48
Speaker 1: working on, as far as Kohlberger's team, They had to
23:51
Speaker 1: go back to the drawing board once this grand jury
23:54
Speaker 1: indictment was announced. And that's because the grand jury returned
23:58
Speaker 1: this indictment without the defense even being able to put
24:02
Speaker 1: up a defense. And that's how the grand jury works, right? So,
24:06
Speaker 1: Ann Taylor, Alyssa Massoff, they have to go back to
24:10
Speaker 1: the drawing board now and come up with their new strategy.
24:14
Speaker 1: The indictment means prosecutors don't have to convince Marshall that
24:18
Speaker 1: police had sufficient probable cause to arrest Kohlberger. And it
24:23
Speaker 1: spares the surviving housemates from having to face cross-examination from
24:27
Speaker 1: Kohlberger's defense team and what Kootenai County Public Defender Ann
24:31
Speaker 1: Taylor expected to be a five-day preliminary hearing. So they
24:36
Speaker 1: had plans to bring people up, cross-examine them, get them
24:39
Speaker 1: on record, and try and get them to slip up
24:43
Speaker 1: and say something different than what they told the police.
24:46
Speaker 1: But now that's all out the window. And that step
24:49
Speaker 1: has been circumvented by this indictment that we see from
24:52
Speaker 1: the grand jury. And not to digress, but as I've
24:56
Speaker 1: said several times now, I'm not a big fan of
24:59
Speaker 1: the grand jury overall. And I'm really not a fan
25:02
Speaker 1: of it here either. But I understand why the prosecution
25:06
Speaker 1: went this route. It gives them their best chance at
25:09
Speaker 1: securing a conviction. And at the end of the day,
25:12
Speaker 1: that's their job. Kohlberger could face the death penalty on
25:16
Speaker 1: any of the four first-degree murder charges. There is a
25:20
Speaker 1: chance that the sides could reach a deal for Kohlberger
25:23
Speaker 1: to plead guilty to the murders in exchange to be
25:26
Speaker 1: spared from death row, Elcock said. But things could also
25:30
Speaker 1: go the other way. Potential surprise is that the state
25:34
Speaker 1: puts death penalty on the table with no deals, she said,
25:38
Speaker 1: and I'd look for them to do that. I think
25:40
Speaker 1: that they have the goods as far as evidence goes,
25:43
Speaker 1: I think that they have the motivation, if you will,
25:46
Speaker 1: as far as the prosecution. And I think that the
25:49
Speaker 1: people who elected Bill Thompson are going to demand that
25:54
Speaker 1: he goes all the way here. We're talking about four
25:57
Speaker 1: college students murdering their home in a gruesome, gruesome manner.
26:01
Speaker 1: And if you have the death penalty on the books,
26:04
Speaker 1: I don't see any other case that is more deserving
26:08
Speaker 1: than something like this. So I'd be absolutely blown away
26:11
Speaker 1: if this turns into anything but a capital punishment case.
26:15
Speaker 1: And I think that today will start the whole entire
26:19
Speaker 1: process that sees us travel down that path. All right, folks,
26:23
Speaker 1: that's going to do it for this one. All of
26:25
Speaker 1: the information that goes with the episode can be found
26:28
Speaker 1: in the description box. And welcome back to the program.
26:32
Speaker 1: Brian Koberger will be back in court. a month earlier
26:35
Speaker 1: than was originally scheduled. Now, this appearance has to do
26:40
Speaker 1: with the gag order, though. This isn't about the actual
26:43
Speaker 1: trial itself. This has to do with the Gonsalves family
26:48
Speaker 1: and their challenge of the scope of that gag order.
26:51
Speaker 1: And this was confirmed by Shannon Gray, the lawyer for
26:56
Speaker 1: the Gonsalves family, and also by the authorities. So... Let's
27:01
Speaker 1: jump into this article from Fox News and let's get
27:04
Speaker 1: this all cleared up. Headline Idaho student murder suspect Brian
27:08
Speaker 1: Koberger to return to court a month earlier than expected.
27:13
Speaker 1: This article was authored by Michael Ruiz and it was
27:17
Speaker 1: published by Fox News Digital. An Idaho judge has scheduled
27:23
Speaker 1: a new hearing on a court ordered gag order In
27:25
Speaker 1: the ongoing murder case against Brian Koberger, the 28-year-old criminology
27:30
Speaker 1: PhD student accused of attacking four undergrads in their sleep
27:35
Speaker 1: on an early Saturday morning in November. And we know
27:39
Speaker 1: that the Supreme Court of Idaho has already upheld this
27:43
Speaker 1: gag order. However, it wasn't on the merits. It was
27:46
Speaker 1: because they said the plaintiffs, meaning the media in this case,
27:51
Speaker 1: didn't go through the proper channels. And instead of going
27:54
Speaker 1: to the magistrate judge, who would be Judge Marshall, they
27:58
Speaker 1: decided to pull an end around and go directly to
28:01
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. Well, the Gonsalves family, they did not
28:04
Speaker 1: do that. Them and their attorney, Shannon Gray, they petitioned
28:08
Speaker 1: Judge Marshall. And now they're going to get a hearing
28:11
Speaker 1: for that petition and to try and get the scope
28:14
Speaker 1: of that gag order resolved. pare down a little bit.
28:18
Speaker 1: The court set a motion hearing over the weekend for
28:21
Speaker 1: May 25th, roughly a month before the Pennsylvania native is
28:25
Speaker 1: due in the Latah County Courthouse for a preliminary hearing
28:29
Speaker 1: in which his defense is expected to challenge the evidence
28:32
Speaker 1: against him. Now, when this news was first breaking, people
28:36
Speaker 1: were thinking that it had to do with Bethany Funk, perhaps,
28:39
Speaker 1: and what investigator Rich Batanti said he found. But it
28:44
Speaker 1: turns out that this has to do with the gag
28:46
Speaker 1: order and has nothing at all to do with the
28:49
Speaker 1: actual trial itself. So I just want to make that clear.
28:53
Speaker 1: That is the date set for the court to address
28:55
Speaker 1: my motion on the gag order. Shannon Gray, the attorney
28:58
Speaker 1: for Steve and Christy Gonsalves, told Fox News Digital Monday.
29:02
Speaker 1: The court later confirmed that information. So Shannon Gray is
29:07
Speaker 1: going to get his chance to argue in front of
29:09
Speaker 1: Judge Marshall why he believes that the scope of this
29:12
Speaker 1: gag order is too broad. And of course, he's going
29:15
Speaker 1: to refer to the Constitution, First Amendment rights, all sorts
29:20
Speaker 1: of stuff to try and make his case. However, we
29:23
Speaker 1: have seen that the state has pretty much rejected every
29:27
Speaker 1: argument that's been brought forward so far around this gag order.
29:31
Speaker 1: And while the Supreme Court threw it out on a technicality,
29:35
Speaker 1: I don't see how the Gonsalves family or the media,
29:38
Speaker 1: for that matter, is going to have any any better
29:40
Speaker 1: luck in front of Judge Marshall. Judge Marshall put this
29:43
Speaker 1: gag order in place for a reason, at least in
29:46
Speaker 1: her mind, to try and protect the proceedings. The last
29:49
Speaker 1: thing she wants is a, you know, tainted jury pool
29:53
Speaker 1: and any doubt about that jury's ability to go about
29:57
Speaker 1: their business and do things in a proper manner. so
30:00
Speaker 1: she felt it was necessary to have this very broad
30:03
Speaker 1: gag order to try and help prevent any of that
30:05
Speaker 1: from happening later on down the road. Their 21-year-old daughter,
30:10
Speaker 1: Kaylee Gonsalves, was one of the victims killed in a
30:13
Speaker 1: home invasion ambush around 4 a.m. on November 13th. Magistrate
30:18
Speaker 1: Judge Megan Marshall said, had previously said she would not
30:21
Speaker 1: address the motion on the gag order until after the
30:25
Speaker 1: Idaho Supreme Court issued a decision on an appeal from
30:29
Speaker 1: a media coalition led by the Associated Press. And that
30:32
Speaker 1: was a shrewd move on Judge Marshall's part. She knew
30:35
Speaker 1: that the Supreme Court was going to slap this down,
30:38
Speaker 1: and she knew that it was going to end up
30:40
Speaker 1: back in her courtroom. So she decided that she wasn't
30:43
Speaker 1: going to make a ruling until the Superior Court, the
30:46
Speaker 1: Supreme Court, made their ruling. And now Judge Marshall, with
30:49
Speaker 1: that in her back pocket, is going to have this hearing,
30:52
Speaker 1: and my guess is, slap down the request for the
30:55
Speaker 1: gag order to get paired back. The state's highest court
30:58
Speaker 1: last week dismissed that appeal, finding that it should have
31:02
Speaker 1: been filed in a lesser court. Lay top prosecutor Bill
31:05
Speaker 1: Thompson's office on Monday told Fox News Digital it was
31:08
Speaker 1: not able to comment on the nature of the hearing.
31:12
Speaker 1: Koberger's defense attorney, Ann Taylor, did not respond to a
31:15
Speaker 1: request for comment. Kohlberger is charged with four counts of
31:20
Speaker 1: first-degree murder and one count of felony burglary. I don't
31:24
Speaker 1: even know why anyone's contacting lawyers at this point. We
31:27
Speaker 1: know nobody's going to talk. Nobody has anything to say
31:29
Speaker 1: to anybody. And if you're going to get any information,
31:32
Speaker 1: it's going to be from a leak or from those
31:35
Speaker 1: court documents. And I know that they're mundane. I know
31:38
Speaker 1: that they're not the most exciting thing we go through.
31:40
Speaker 1: But if you want to have an idea about what's
31:43
Speaker 1: going on in this case and truly know what's going
31:45
Speaker 1: on and not, you know, base it on stupid rumor
31:49
Speaker 1: and innuendo, then the court documents, they're going to lead
31:52
Speaker 1: you to the promised land. Moscow, Idaho police have alleged
31:56
Speaker 1: that he stalked an off-campus rental home before slipping inside
32:00
Speaker 1: around 4 a.m. on November 13th after the occupants had
32:05
Speaker 1: been out partying ahead of the Thanksgiving break and killing
32:08
Speaker 1: four students, some of them, in their sleep. And it's
32:12
Speaker 1: always been my opinion that Brian Koberger chose this time
32:16
Speaker 1: for maximum effect. Murdering people around the holidays? Not only
32:20
Speaker 1: are you going to maximize the fallout for the families,
32:23
Speaker 1: but you know you're going to have basically... national if
32:26
Speaker 1: not international coverage. And if Brian Koberger is the man
32:30
Speaker 1: that the government tells us he is, we know that
32:33
Speaker 1: a narcissist like him would love that kind of coverage.
32:37
Speaker 1: So I've always thought that Brian Koberger chose to do
32:41
Speaker 1: this around this time for maximum impact. Authorities identified the
32:46
Speaker 1: victims as Gonsalves and two housemates, Madison Mogan and Zanna Kernodle,
32:51
Speaker 1: and the latter's visiting boyfriend, Ethan Chapin. Each of them
32:55
Speaker 1: suffered multiple stab wounds from a large knife, according to
32:59
Speaker 1: the county coroner, and detectives found a K-bar sheath next
33:03
Speaker 1: to Mogan's body, which they say contained DNA that linked
33:07
Speaker 1: Koberger to the crime scene. And we all know that
33:09
Speaker 1: DNA was found on the button of that knife sheath.
33:13
Speaker 1: And the kind of DNA that was found was touch DNA.
33:17
Speaker 1: That DNA led directly back to Brian Koberger after a
33:20
Speaker 1: trash pull was done on his parents' trash. Through phone
33:25
Speaker 1: records and surveillance video, police said they were able to
33:28
Speaker 1: link Koberger's white Hyundai Elantra to the crime scene. They
33:32
Speaker 1: arrested him at his parents' house in the Pocono Mountains
33:35
Speaker 1: of Pennsylvania on December 30th after he made a cross-country
33:39
Speaker 1: road trip home with his dad riding shotgun in the
33:42
Speaker 1: suspect vehicle. Police seized the car, DNA samples, and dozens
33:46
Speaker 1: of other items when they searched the home, court records show,
33:50
Speaker 1: and we know when they took the car, they absolutely
33:52
Speaker 1: dismantled that bad boy. They took out the panels. They
33:56
Speaker 1: took out the steering wheel. They took out the pedals.
33:59
Speaker 1: They took out seats. Basically, that car is somewhere nuts
34:03
Speaker 1: and bolts right now. That's how thorough they are when
34:06
Speaker 1: they're going through a car like this trying to find DNA.
34:09
Speaker 1: So you know that this car was dismantled bumper to bumper.
34:14
Speaker 1: Two housemates survived the home invasion massacre. One overheard a scuffle.
34:19
Speaker 1: and crying or whimpering and told police she saw a
34:22
Speaker 1: masked man with bushy eyebrows leaving out the back door.
34:26
Speaker 1: The other defense investigators claim may have exculpatory information. However,
34:32
Speaker 1: they dropped a subpoena request after she agreed to meet
34:35
Speaker 1: with them in her Nevada hometown instead of traveling back
34:38
Speaker 1: to Idaho for the June hearing. Now, I have no
34:41
Speaker 1: idea what Batanti says he found or what they have
34:46
Speaker 1: in their back pocket, meaning Brian Koberger's team. But I
34:49
Speaker 1: doubt it's anything of significance, folks, honestly. It really doesn't
34:53
Speaker 1: seem to me that there would be anything significant that
34:56
Speaker 1: she could offer. You know that the police, they interviewed
34:59
Speaker 1: her three ways to Sunday in the wake of all
35:02
Speaker 1: of this. And you know that they asked her a
35:04
Speaker 1: million different questions. So I don't know what Rich Batanti
35:08
Speaker 1: thinks that he could find or has found that's going
35:12
Speaker 1: to change things and provide exculpatory evidence for Brian Kohlberger,
35:17
Speaker 1: but I'm as interested as everybody else in finding out,
35:19
Speaker 1: I'll tell you that much. Kohlberger was a PhD student
35:23
Speaker 1: at Washington State University at the time of the attack.
35:26
Speaker 1: The school is less than 10 miles down the road
35:29
Speaker 1: from the University of Idaho, where the four victims were
35:32
Speaker 1: undergraduate students. So it's going to be real interesting to
35:35
Speaker 1: see what Judge Marshall has to say here when all
35:38
Speaker 1: is said and done. But I have no doubt in
35:40
Speaker 1: my mind that the gag order is going to be upheld.
35:44
Speaker 1: I think that the precedent that has been set by
35:46
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court is going to come into play. Even
35:49
Speaker 1: though it was set on a technicality, that's not going
35:52
Speaker 1: to matter. Judge Marshall is going to look at that,
35:55
Speaker 1: see that the Supreme Court made that ruling, and my
35:58
Speaker 1: guess is she's going to keep the gag order in
36:01
Speaker 1: its entirety, not pare it back at all, and just
36:04
Speaker 1: keep rolling with what she's been rolling with So far,
36:08
Speaker 1: because really, when you look at what's going on, we
36:11
Speaker 1: haven't had too many leaks. There have been some, but
36:14
Speaker 1: they have been minor in the grand scheme of things.
36:17
Speaker 1: There has been no serious leak as far as an
36:20
Speaker 1: official that's working on the case, coming out and talking,
36:23
Speaker 1: dropping a bombshell, nothing like that. We've heard some rumors
36:27
Speaker 1: about Instagram. We've heard some rumors about the Idaho State campus,
36:31
Speaker 1: stuff about, you know, the mad Greek. But besides that,
36:34
Speaker 1: stuff that we all could probably put together on our
36:37
Speaker 1: own anyway, we haven't heard any gigantic news leak here
36:42
Speaker 1: or gigantic bombshell. So what Judge Marshall, at least in
36:46
Speaker 1: her mind, is doing seems to be working. And I
36:50
Speaker 1: doubt she's going to change course at this stage of
36:53
Speaker 1: the game. But we'll keep our eye on it. And
36:56
Speaker 1: when the hearing happens, obviously, we'll be here to talk
36:59
Speaker 1: about it. Alright folks, that's going to do it for
37:02
Speaker 1: this one. All of the information that goes with the
37:04
Speaker 1: episode can be found in the description box.