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GUILTY VERDICT IN MURDER TRIAL OF CULT MOM LORI VALLOW · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease.
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Speaker 2: Call Mom Laurie Valo guilty. I'm Nancy Grace. This is
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Speaker 2: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at
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Speaker 2: Fox Nation. In series XEM one eleven, in the last Hours,
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Speaker 2: a jury hands down a verdict in the calt Mom
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Speaker 2: Laurie Valo case, on trial for multiple accounts, but most
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Speaker 2: notably for conspiracy to murder her own children. It's been
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Speaker 2: a long trial and a long time coming, but finally
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Speaker 2: a verdict.
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Speaker 3: We the jury Juliam Pendelton scorn to try the above
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Speaker 3: entitled action for our verdict unanimously. Answer the questions sumitted
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Speaker 3: to us as follows. Question number one in regards to
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Speaker 3: count one of the amended indictment is Laurie En Ballow,
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Speaker 3: not guilty or guilty of conspiracy to commit first free
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Speaker 3: murder of Tyler Ryan and grand theft by deception.
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Speaker 4: Answer guilty.
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Speaker 3: Question number two in regards to count two of the
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Speaker 3: amended invitement is Laurie Noreene Ballo not guilty or guilty
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Speaker 3: of first dree murder of KYLEE.
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Speaker 5: Ryan.
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Speaker 3: Answer guilty. Question number three in regards to count three
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Speaker 3: of the amended indictment is Lourie Lourene Vallow not guilty
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Speaker 3: or guilty of conspiracy to commit the first free murder
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Speaker 3: of Joshua Jackson Ballow and grand theft by deception. Answer
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Speaker 3: guilty question number four In regards to count four the
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Speaker 3: amended invitement is Laurie Noreene Vallow not guilty or guilty
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Speaker 3: of first three murder of Joshua Jackson Ballow. Served guilty.
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Speaker 3: Question number five in regards to count five of the
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Speaker 3: amended indictment is Lourierene Valo not guilty or guilty of
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Speaker 3: conspiracy to commit the first dream murder of camera Cammy Davell.
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Speaker 3: Answered guilty. Question number six. In regards to count seven
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Speaker 3: of the amended indictment, is lour Urine Valo not guilty
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Speaker 3: or guilty of grand depth answered guilty.
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Speaker 2: Straight out to East Iidaho News dot Com news director Nate.
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Speaker 6: Ayton, this jury deliberated less than I would say about
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Speaker 6: seven hours. They started yesterday around two fifteen. They took
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Speaker 6: a dinner break, they went home before seven. They were
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Speaker 6: back this morning at nine, and we got word around
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Speaker 6: eleven forty five that a verdict was coming down. I
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Speaker 6: have to tell you that a lot of people were
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Speaker 6: out here waiting in the courtroom. I stepped outside the
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Speaker 6: courtroom to go rub a bite to eat. I came back,
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Speaker 6: I made my way into the courtroom and someone pulled
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Speaker 6: me over and made I think something's happening. One of
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Speaker 6: the bailiffs walked out and went over to the clerk
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Speaker 6: and whispered something, and then she texted someone. And then
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Speaker 6: about two or three minutes later, the trial court administrator
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Speaker 6: walked in and said, ladies and gentlemen, we have a
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Speaker 6: verdict in Lori Valow's case. Guilty on all counts. She
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Speaker 6: has been found guilty for the murder of Tyler Ryan.
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Speaker 6: She has been found guilty for the murder of JJ Vallom.
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Speaker 6: She's been found guilty for the conspiracy charges on Tylee
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Speaker 6: and JJ, and the grand theft charge. I got to
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Speaker 6: tell you, the most moving moment was leaving the courthouse,
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Speaker 6: seeing all of the police officers lining the hallway giving
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Speaker 6: each other hugs.
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Speaker 4: This is a day they've been waiting.
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Speaker 2: For after a long trial and gruesome testimony and evidence.
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Speaker 6: What was her reaction, The same reaction she's kind of
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Speaker 6: had the entire trial.
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Speaker 4: She didn't show much emotion. She was standing.
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Speaker 6: The judge asked her to stand between her attorneys, John
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Speaker 6: Thomas and Jim Archibald, and the jury walked in and
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Speaker 6: they handed over the envelope to the judge.
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Speaker 4: He looked at what their verdict was.
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Speaker 6: He then asked the clerk to read it, and again
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Speaker 6: it was guilty on all counts.
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Speaker 2: What was the key evidence that put the nail on
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Speaker 2: the coffin for cult mom Lori Valo? First of all,
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Speaker 2: to the shock of many, the defense rests without putting
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Speaker 2: up a shred of evidence.
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Speaker 4: Listen, you're unner.
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Speaker 7: After consultation with my client, we don't believe the state
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Speaker 7: has proven its case, so the defense rests.
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Speaker 1: Okay.
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Speaker 2: You were just hearing Lori Valo's defense attorney speaking Nate Eating,
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Speaker 2: the news director East Idaho News dot Com.
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Speaker 1: Nate, not even one witness, nothing.
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Speaker 8: Not one witness. The big question was was Laurie going
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Speaker 8: to take the stand? And I'm told that right after
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Speaker 8: the prosecution rested, her attorneys asked for fifteen minutes in
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Speaker 8: the courtroom with just her so that they could make
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Speaker 8: that final decision. They were leaving it up to Laurie.
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Speaker 8: Everybody cleared the courtroom. About twenty minutes later, we all
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Speaker 8: went back in the courtroom, the judge turned it over
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Speaker 8: to the defense, and that is when the SoundBite you
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Speaker 8: just played, that's when her attorney said that Laurie has
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Speaker 8: been leading this defense team the entire time. Nancy, she
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Speaker 8: is an actively involved defendant. She is taking notes constantly
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Speaker 8: or doodling on her notebook. She is chatting in their
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Speaker 8: ears to the point that one day one of her
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Speaker 8: attorneys had to shush her and say, listen, I need
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Speaker 8: to listen to what the witness is saying. So this
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Speaker 8: was her decision, and they had no other witnesses who
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Speaker 8: could defend her.
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Speaker 2: You know, truer words were never spoken. Only a fool
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Speaker 2: hires himself as a lawyer. So you know that is
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Speaker 2: fraught with error to be steering the defense team with
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Speaker 2: me high profile lawyer joining.
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Speaker 1: Us out of Idaho that jurisdiction.
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Speaker 2: Tara is with US co owner Smith and Malik, former
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Speaker 2: state and federal prosecutor tur Thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 2: How often do you see the defense rest without putting
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Speaker 2: up a shred of evidence.
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Speaker 5: Well, it certainly happens. But what's unusual about this particular
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Speaker 5: case is it seems to be going along with the
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Speaker 5: theme of how the defense has acted kind of throughout
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Speaker 5: this trial, given how serious it is, given the volume
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Speaker 5: of evidence the state has put on, I would have
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Speaker 5: anticipated something, some witness to be placed on the stand
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Speaker 5: by the defense team, but to have nothing reflects kind
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Speaker 5: of this backseat approach that the defense has been taking
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Speaker 5: I think throughout the trial. You know, even the cross
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Speaker 5: examination I didn't think was particularly effective when they were
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Speaker 5: doing that from witness to witness. So an unusual step
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Speaker 5: for this type of case.
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Speaker 2: For sure, Nate Eate joining me eastside her news dot
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Speaker 2: com Nate. It seems as if the defense sat back
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Speaker 2: and basically mocked the state's evidence.
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Speaker 8: Well, here's the thing.
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Speaker 1: As if it meant nothing.
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Speaker 8: Here's the thing. They really could have gone after Chad
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Speaker 8: Daybell in this case, or Alex Cox or Laurie's dead brother.
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Speaker 8: They did not because Laurie would get upset if they
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Speaker 8: threw her husband under the bus. There was one day
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Speaker 8: where one of the attorneys really started to go into
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Speaker 8: the fact that before Laurie met Chad day Bell, she
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Speaker 8: didn't have these religious beliefs. She was religious, she liked
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Speaker 8: praying and whatnot, but all of these beliefs started to
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Speaker 8: be introduced to her in twenty eighteen, which is when
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Speaker 8: she met Chad and they really started to go down
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Speaker 8: this road and maybe kind of start to paint the
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Speaker 8: story for the jury. And when the attorney sat down,
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Speaker 8: Laurie was not pleased. She did not want Chad day
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Speaker 8: Bell being thrown under the bus. She did not want
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Speaker 8: her brother, who likely did all of these physical acts,
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Speaker 8: did it himself. She did not want them looking like
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Speaker 8: they did anything bad. And so that is why the
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Speaker 8: defense they I don't want to say they had their
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Speaker 8: hands tied, but they didn't do much. These are experienced
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Speaker 8: defense attorneys. One of her attorneys it's on twenty seven
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Speaker 8: or twenty eight murder cases. He's represented ten or eleven
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Speaker 8: people on death row. The other attorney helped exonerate a
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Speaker 8: man who served twenty years in prison for a crime
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Speaker 8: he didn't commit. These guys, you know, aren't fresh out
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Speaker 8: of school. They know what they're doing. But when you
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Speaker 8: have a client like Lori Valo, they weren't able to
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Speaker 8: do it.
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Speaker 9: Nancy, this is Michelle Joy. Can I offer comments on this?
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Speaker 1: Sure? So once go ahead on the Joy.
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Speaker 9: And I thought was interesting. I believe at one point
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Speaker 9: she was found incompetent to stand trial right and received
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Speaker 9: some mental health treatment. So you know, from a forensic
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Speaker 9: psychiatry perspective, we see that when you know someone's not
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Speaker 9: able to necessarily understand the nature of their charges or
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Speaker 9: is this with their own defense? Okay, that happens yoursues
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Speaker 9: treatment and was competent. But if she's almost like leading
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Speaker 9: the team, and you would think she would need a
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Speaker 9: hire bar to do that, it's almost like a pro
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Speaker 9: se defense in a way. So the idea that this
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Speaker 9: woman that we're all seeing is kind of, you know,
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Speaker 9: delusional at some level, having we'll get into what this
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Speaker 9: differential is, but that she was incompetent to stand child,
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Speaker 9: receive treatment, and is now somehow leading the defense team
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Speaker 9: is even odder and more surprising to me.
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Speaker 2: You're hearing doctor Michelle Joy Forensance, clinical academic psychiatrist and
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Speaker 2: author of and illustrated history of the insanity defense, Nate Eaton,
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Speaker 2: could you explain really the rationale behind the inconfidency decision.
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Speaker 2: It's not so much that she doesn't understand what's going
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Speaker 2: on around her. She does understand really well. She knew
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Speaker 2: to lie to police about whereabout some of her children
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Speaker 2: after they were murdered Nate Eaton. She knew to take
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Speaker 2: off to Hawaii where you pursued her and found her
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Speaker 2: and questioned her. She played the system from the get go,
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Speaker 2: played all of her relatives, her husband, her husband's her children,
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Speaker 2: her brother, law enforcement, the Woodcocks. Everyone got played by
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Speaker 2: Laurie Vallo. The incompetency ruling, I believe was because she
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Speaker 2: truly believes that people can be zombies, zombies light or dark,
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Speaker 2: and that the only way you can cure them of
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Speaker 2: their zombie like state is to kill them. That is
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Speaker 2: where the incompetence ruling originated, not because she could not
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Speaker 2: understand what her lawyers were telling her.
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Speaker 8: Yeah, exactly, Well, in Idaho, you just have to fit
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Speaker 8: two rules. One you have to understand your charges and
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Speaker 8: two assists in your defense. Laurie Valo was clearly assisting
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Speaker 8: in her defense to the detriment often of her attorneys,
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Speaker 8: and she understood the charges. And you mentioned all of
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Speaker 8: the betrayal of all of those people. Well, we saw
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Speaker 8: during court they went through one hundred and fifty fou
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Speaker 8: in the items on Lourie's iCloud accounts, and there's a
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Speaker 8: lot happening behind the scenes and text messages with Chad
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Speaker 8: Dabell when both of their spouses are still alive. They
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Speaker 8: clearly understood to change the life insurance policies. They clearly
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Speaker 8: understood that when she was not the one million dollar beneficiary,
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Speaker 8: how upset they were, But don't worry, She's still going
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Speaker 8: to get the six thousand a month from Social Security.
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Speaker 8: So they understood that they needed to finance the way
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Speaker 8: to live.
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Speaker 1: Okay, just stop, wait a minute.
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Speaker 2: I'm just thinking about how Tiley and JJ were a
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Speaker 2: murdered not to mention Tammy Dabell. And to this day,
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Speaker 2: I believe Joseph Ryan and I also believe that it's
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Speaker 2: just not a coincidence that Alex Cox just killed over
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Speaker 2: dead and we've got two COD causes of death for him.
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Speaker 1: That's total BS technical legal term. I mean. Jesscott Morgan
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Speaker 1: is with me.
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Speaker 2: Death Investigator, has literally investigated over a thousand death cases.
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Speaker 2: He's Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath
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Speaker 2: My Feet on Amazon and Star Body Bags with Joe
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Speaker 2: Scott Morgan podcast Joe Scott. How can one person have
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Speaker 2: two CODs? Because that is what happened with Alex Cox.
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Speaker 7: Yeah, isn't that something that he would. And you know,
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Speaker 7: I begin to think about Alex in you know, in
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Speaker 7: the broader sense relative to his hand things, his hand
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Speaker 7: on the wheel, if you will, or let me rephrase
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Speaker 7: that Laurie's hand on his shoulder directing him, because I
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Speaker 7: think that that's probably what had occurred. I don't, you know,
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Speaker 7: I concur with the level of perception here. I don't
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Speaker 7: think Alex was the sharpest tool in the shed, either
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Speaker 7: easily manipulated, directed that sort of thing. And what really
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Speaker 7: has come to mind for me after all these years
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Speaker 7: that we've been covering this case is the star witness
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Speaker 7: for me, at least from a forensic standpoint, is JJ
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Speaker 7: It's almost like he was conjured up in the courtroom,
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Speaker 7: that he breathed life into this case from from the grave,
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Speaker 7: in the sense that the most powerful thing for me
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Speaker 7: was that blonde hair. Nancy, and I've caught some flak
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Speaker 7: relative to you know, people saying, you know, all the
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Speaker 7: things that they normally say relative to well, you know.
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Speaker 2: You know what, Joe Scott, before you say another word.
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Speaker 2: I know you're a renowned death investigator, but here's a
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Speaker 2: little legal knowledge for you. You're catching a lot of
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Speaker 2: flak screw them on the horse they rode in on.
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Speaker 1: Ok So just keep that in mind.
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Speaker 7: Catching reality. The reality is this. You know, everybody has
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Speaker 7: wanted to tie, has wanted to tie Lorie Valow to
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Speaker 7: these deaths. And that big tie back for me was
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Speaker 7: that hair, Nancy. It spoke volumes, and people said, well,
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Speaker 7: you'd expect to find I.
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Speaker 2: Got to explain to everybody that doesn't know about the
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Speaker 2: long blonde hair that was found on JJ's body and
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Speaker 2: tape around him and he was wrapped up like he
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Speaker 2: was her medically sealed like a mummy.
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Speaker 7: Yeah, and you said a mouthful there because of this.
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Speaker 7: It's one thing to wrap a body, Okay, but you're
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Speaker 7: actually talking about with this tape in the plastic bags,
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Speaker 7: that's a facilitator of death. That's a modality. So her
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Speaker 7: hair was actually found in dwelling the physical presence.
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Speaker 2: Well, hold on, you know when you just throw out
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Speaker 2: terms like that, when you say the tape, the taping
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Speaker 2: of little JJ's body, seven year old JJ's was a facilitator, yes,
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Speaker 2: the homicide. In other words, the tape itself like ken
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Speaker 2: Top mom Casey Anthony Kelly with tape wrapped around her
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Speaker 2: mouth and her nose that facilitated or aided the death.
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Speaker 7: Yeah, because we're talking about kind of very in non
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Speaker 7: specific terms. Remember, the pathologists could not absolutely positively say
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Speaker 7: with you know that this is a strangulation or this
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Speaker 7: is a suffocation. But what we do know is that
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Speaker 7: their opinion is that this was an asphixialed death. Well,
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Speaker 7: how was the asphixial death more than likely brought about?
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Speaker 7: Well it was visa v This plastic bag and this
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Speaker 7: tape and her hair is connected to it, Nancy. It's
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Speaker 7: not just like it was picked up off the floors.
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Speaker 7: You know. They were trying to neatly, as you said,
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Speaker 7: prometically seal his little body. No, this is part of
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Speaker 7: the facilitation of this act, and that, to me is
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Speaker 7: the most powerful thing here, this tie back. And I
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Speaker 7: think that Alex had something to do with it. I'll
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Speaker 7: never forget. I'll never forget, Nate, talking about many months ago.
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Speaker 7: You know, that last kind of image that everybody has
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Speaker 7: in their mind, where JJ is up on Alex's shoulder.
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Speaker 7: That's really the last time that we have any kind
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Speaker 7: of physical evidence of that.
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Speaker 2: In his pj's and socks exactly what he was wearing
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Speaker 2: when his body was found hey, Nate Eaton, joining US
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Speaker 2: news director Easidaho News dot Com on the story from
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Speaker 2: the very beginning, pursuing Coltman Laurie Value all the way
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Speaker 2: to Hawaii for answers. Nate describe for those that are
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Speaker 2: not familiar with every nuance of this case, where the
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Speaker 2: hair was found, where Lori Valo's hair was found, specifically.
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Speaker 8: So the hair was found on a piece of duct
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Speaker 8: tape that was wrapped around the plastic that was wrapped
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Speaker 8: around JJ's body. So it wasn't on his pj's, that
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Speaker 8: wasn't on his actual body, but it was done after
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Speaker 8: he was wrapped up and killed, and this was the plastic.
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Speaker 2: That's significant, very significant, Nate Eaton, because if her hair
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Speaker 2: was on his pj's, that could be oh well, it
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Speaker 2: was on there from the washer dryer.
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Speaker 1: It was on there because he hugged her.
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Speaker 2: But being on the tape puts her there when his
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Speaker 2: body is.
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Speaker 1: Being taped up like a mummy.
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Speaker 2: That's a whole Another scenario, was it DNA match to her?
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Speaker 1: Nate Eaton, it was.
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Speaker 8: They said it was one and I think seventy five
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Speaker 8: octillion or something. Yes, populations that it was her, and
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Speaker 8: they tested it against some They tested against Tylee and
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Speaker 8: Melanie Gibb, who was at the home the last time
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Speaker 8: JJ was found, just to be sure it wasn't hers,
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Speaker 8: and it came back Laurie there and Natthew. Remember there
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Speaker 8: were some other DNA tests that came back a thumb
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Speaker 8: print and a palm print, but those matched Alex Cox.
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Speaker 8: So this was the one piece of Lorie Valor that
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Speaker 8: was actually you know, there at the scene, there on
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Speaker 8: the dead body, and that that might be the one
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Speaker 8: question the jury has. The conspiracy I think has been proven.
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Speaker 8: We know that the grand sets she was using her
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Speaker 8: kid's money, but did she actually commit the murders? That
18:05
Speaker 8: might be the one hang up that the jury has
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Speaker 8: of Well, we think her brother did it, how did
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Speaker 8: she do it if there was no tie to her?
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Speaker 8: And for Tylie, there's nothing less of Tyley to really
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Speaker 8: test other than her bones, which they compared to tools
18:19
Speaker 8: to find out what was there, and you know, pieces
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Speaker 8: of her liver and body parts, and they weren't able
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Speaker 8: to find any DNA on those.
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Speaker 1: So correct me if I'm wrong, night Eton.
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Speaker 2: But after the two children are killed presumably missing, isn't
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Speaker 2: called mom Laurie vallis still talking about how much money
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Speaker 2: she's going to make off of them from their Social Security.
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Speaker 8: Sure and then they immediately moved on to Tammy because
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Speaker 8: she died a month later, and that nice. Let me
18:48
Speaker 8: tell you one more thing, Nancy. The same day, the
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Speaker 8: same day that Kylie dies and is being buried on
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Speaker 8: Chad Davell's property, that is the date that Chad Davell
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Speaker 8: and Laurie and Tammy Gabel signed a new life insurance
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Speaker 8: policy that with the maximum amount allowed on the policy.
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Speaker 8: Tammy Dabel went from the minimum of ten thousand a
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Speaker 8: year to the maximum at her job. As Kylie Ryan
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Speaker 8: is being buried on the property.
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Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. For those of you just
19:34
Speaker 2: joining us, guilty call Mom. Laurie Valo just found guilty
19:40
Speaker 2: by a jury off her peers after a long trial.
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Speaker 2: Some of the most powerful evidence in the courtroom highlighted
19:49
Speaker 2: in closing arguments, some of the most powerful evidence this
19:54
Speaker 2: jury has heard. Take a listen to Prosecutor Rob Wood
19:58
Speaker 2: questioning doctor gar Warren.
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Speaker 10: Have you formed an expert opinion concerning the cause of
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Speaker 10: death of JJ Ballow?
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Speaker 4: I have what was that I determined the cause of
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Speaker 4: death to be.
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Speaker 11: Asphyxia by a plastic bag over the head and duct
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Speaker 11: tape covered in the mouth. And then there's another segment
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Speaker 11: that's other significant conditions I put bound with duct tape,
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Speaker 11: bruising to the arms, an abrasion to the neck, But
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Speaker 11: ultimately the cause of death was asphyxia by plastic bag
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Speaker 11: over the head and duct tape over the mouth.
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Speaker 2: Jo Scott Morgan joining US Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,
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Speaker 2: Joe Scott, I actually had a case where the coeod
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Speaker 2: cause of death was asphyxia with one of those clear
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Speaker 2: plastic laundry bags from dry cleaning type bag that they
21:02
Speaker 2: put over the clothing. One of those, and that is
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Speaker 2: a brutal, awful cause of death in that case. That
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Speaker 2: was why my first murder case. In the autopsy photo,
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Speaker 2: the victim Mary had bits of the plastic up all
21:23
Speaker 2: in her nose and around her mouth where they had
21:26
Speaker 2: to pick it off at the medical examiner's office. She
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Speaker 2: was trying so hard to breathe and she would breathe
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Speaker 2: in the plastic. That's what happened to seven year old JJ.
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Speaker 7: Yep, you're absolutely right, and just understand this is as
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Speaker 7: there's an awareness on his part there would have been,
21:49
Speaker 7: even if they found anything in his system that kind
21:52
Speaker 7: of numbed him, like any kind of substance, just at
21:55
Speaker 7: a primal level, Nancy, He's beginning to rebreathe his own air.
22:00
Speaker 7: Any of us have ever been closed in in kind
22:02
Speaker 7: of a tight space, and the air gets very warm,
22:06
Speaker 7: that sort of thing. You're rebreathing carbon dioxide, which obviously
22:10
Speaker 7: is incompatible with life. And then all of a sudden
22:13
Speaker 7: you begin to get lightheaded. Your promin instinct kicks in,
22:18
Speaker 7: and normally we would reach up to our head, right,
22:21
Speaker 7: just envision this, just for a moment, if you will.
22:25
Speaker 7: We would reach up to our head to try to
22:26
Speaker 7: free ourselves. But guess what, he couldn't you know why,
22:30
Speaker 7: because his hands were bound. So he's struggling all along.
22:34
Speaker 7: He can't free himself with his hands, can't do it
22:37
Speaker 7: of his own accord, and he's bound. He has this
22:40
Speaker 7: thing wrapped around his head and covering his mouth. Well,
22:44
Speaker 7: this was, in the truest sense, this was a kill
22:48
Speaker 7: shot that they planned. They knew that this was inescapable,
22:53
Speaker 7: that there's no way he could recover from this. They
22:56
Speaker 7: were bound and determined, and to think about it, Nancy,
22:58
Speaker 7: this in no way on any is this merciful death.
23:02
Speaker 7: This is as horrible as it can possibly get.
23:06
Speaker 2: Horrible, horrible, horrible death, horrible death. And to you, Nate Eaton, now,
23:12
Speaker 2: before I go to Robin drink joining us former FBI
23:15
Speaker 2: special agent behavior expert, Nate Eaton, I want you to
23:19
Speaker 2: set it up for Robin's answer, whatever it may be.
23:23
Speaker 1: As call Mom.
23:24
Speaker 2: Laurie Valo is sitting in court and she's hearing what
23:29
Speaker 2: you just heard Joe Scott Morgan describe the death of
23:33
Speaker 2: JJ and not only trying to breathe through the plastic bag,
23:39
Speaker 2: bruising on the arms where they held him while he died,
23:45
Speaker 2: held him back, held him down so he couldn't take
23:48
Speaker 2: that bag off his face, abrasions to the neck. She
23:52
Speaker 2: sat there in court she heard that.
23:54
Speaker 8: What was her reaction, It was similar to all the
23:57
Speaker 8: other reactions she's had, Nancy, she didn't show much emotion.
24:01
Speaker 8: She looked at the witness. He whispered to her attorney.
24:05
Speaker 8: She wrote in her notebook. That's been the consistent demeanor
24:08
Speaker 8: through the past six weeks. There are many days she's smiling,
24:11
Speaker 8: she's laughing, she's rolling her eyes. It is the behavior
24:16
Speaker 8: we've seen from Lori Ballos since the moment I saw
24:18
Speaker 8: her in Hawaii, not much has change.
24:21
Speaker 2: Joining me, Robin Drake, who I just mentioned, behavior expert,
24:24
Speaker 2: former FBI Special Agent, chief of FBI Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis Program,
24:31
Speaker 2: and the author of Sizing People Up, a veteran FBI
24:35
Speaker 2: agent's manual for behavior prediction, and you can find him
24:40
Speaker 2: at people formula dot com.
24:44
Speaker 1: Robin Drake, it's a real honor to have you on
24:47
Speaker 1: with us.
24:47
Speaker 2: I wanted you to hear the background before I ask
24:50
Speaker 2: you what called Mamlauri Valo's behavior in court means to you, smiling, laughing,
24:57
Speaker 2: rolling her eyes, whispering back and for to her lawyers.
25:02
Speaker 2: You know how, Imagine a lady crossing her legs and
25:07
Speaker 2: kicking her foot back and forth, up and down. That's
25:11
Speaker 2: called man. Laura Vala can't do it too much because
25:13
Speaker 2: she shackled. But what does her behavior in court tell you,
25:17
Speaker 2: Robin Drake, You know.
25:19
Speaker 8: First and foremost, without a doubt, you don't have to
25:22
Speaker 8: be a trained licensed clinician to understand what psychopathy looks like.
25:27
Speaker 8: Psychopaths have no empathy, no connection. And we're talking about
25:32
Speaker 8: this before. I don't even think she has an internal
25:34
Speaker 8: voice because she's impure creditor that has no remorse for
25:38
Speaker 8: anything she does. And I will say, out of all
25:41
Speaker 8: the horrendous things we've seen and heard, I'm at least
25:44
Speaker 8: grateful that she led her own defense team, because she's
25:47
Speaker 8: her own undoing.
25:48
Speaker 2: You know when you said internal monologue, how psychopaths do
25:54
Speaker 2: not have an internal monologue? If you talk to yourself, ever,
25:57
Speaker 2: don't worry, it's not you.
26:01
Speaker 1: My daughter asked me that, and I'm like, I don't
26:04
Speaker 1: know that.
26:04
Speaker 2: I think and talk in my head when I'm going
26:08
Speaker 2: about my day.
26:09
Speaker 1: But then I.
26:10
Speaker 2: Realized that I do. So I compare it to something
26:13
Speaker 2: like a shark. The shark is not trolling through the
26:17
Speaker 2: water silently looking for its next victim and thinking, Wow,
26:23
Speaker 2: I really feel bad about this, but I'm going to
26:24
Speaker 2: have to eat that school of fish for no, that's
26:27
Speaker 2: not happening. Or a snake doesn't think before it strikes.
26:32
Speaker 2: That's what we're talking about.
26:35
Speaker 8: The way I see it, Drake, Yep, you know we
26:39
Speaker 8: can see this and everything she's absolutely done, The way
26:42
Speaker 8: she handles herself in the courtroom, the way people around
26:45
Speaker 8: her just drop off. And she does it for money.
26:48
Speaker 8: It's passion, so obvious. And when she when the defense
26:53
Speaker 8: rested yesterday saying that they didn't prove their case, I
26:56
Speaker 8: was like, thank God, because it was so evident when
26:59
Speaker 8: she was in so many notes, Like you said, she's
27:01
Speaker 8: taken information in the moment, making decisions in the moment.
27:05
Speaker 8: I don't. And when they served her papers in Hawaii
27:08
Speaker 8: and we looked at that tape, she looked like it
27:11
Speaker 8: wasn't even cognating with her, because that would require an
27:13
Speaker 8: internal voice to actually think about what's going on. And
27:17
Speaker 8: she's incompatible with her life.
27:19
Speaker 2: That's why she's fortatious in the courtroom, Nate Ayton. The
27:23
Speaker 2: rolling the eyes, the giggling, the smiling, the tossing the hair,
27:27
Speaker 2: the whispering to counsel.
27:29
Speaker 8: She's you know that, It's almost as if Laurie sees
27:34
Speaker 8: herself as on a completely different plane, a completely different universe.
27:39
Speaker 8: She probably believes she does, and the world, according to
27:43
Speaker 8: you know what I understand, the world did not deserve
27:45
Speaker 8: to hear from her. That was her thought. But I
27:48
Speaker 8: will say the defense was smart in a way that
27:51
Speaker 8: earlier on in the trial they were able to get
27:52
Speaker 8: in a podcast of Laurie uh one that she recorded
27:56
Speaker 8: about a year and a half ago with her front
27:58
Speaker 8: well three years now, where you hear Laurie talk about
28:01
Speaker 8: how she has seen Jesus and she has called to
28:05
Speaker 8: do all of these wonderful, mighty things for the world.
28:08
Speaker 8: And so the defense was able to get in a
28:10
Speaker 8: good forty minutes of that podcast without any cross examination
28:13
Speaker 8: because they didn't have to put Laurie on the stand.
28:16
Speaker 8: They were able to get in a few phone calls
28:18
Speaker 8: that showed Laurie talking with her son Colby and her
28:21
Speaker 8: sister Summer, and you were able to see where Laurie's
28:24
Speaker 8: head was that right after the bodies were found at
28:27
Speaker 8: her children, So the defense didn't have ways to get
28:30
Speaker 8: things in so the jury could hear that clearly, this
28:32
Speaker 8: woman is not thinking like the rest of us think
28:36
Speaker 8: without having to put her on the stand and open
28:38
Speaker 8: her up to cross examination, although I would have loved
28:40
Speaker 8: to hear her on the stand.
28:41
Speaker 2: Tara Malik joining us high profile lawyer out of that
28:44
Speaker 2: jurisdiction Idaho, Tar, that was good thinking on the part
28:48
Speaker 2: of the defense. It's very difficult to get the voice
28:52
Speaker 2: of your client on the stand in front of the
28:55
Speaker 2: jury without forcing them on the stand and undergoing cross examination.
28:59
Speaker 2: But they did that very very wisely, I believe, with
29:04
Speaker 2: those particular witnesses on the stand. Therefore they're not really
29:07
Speaker 2: introducing anything because you know, in a lot of your stations,
29:11
Speaker 2: once the defense introduces any evidence, they lose final closing argument.
29:16
Speaker 1: But they introduced those or they.
29:19
Speaker 2: Used those phone conversations to show and demonstrate cult mom's
29:25
Speaker 2: bizarre beliefs.
29:26
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it is hard, you know, it's the
29:29
Speaker 5: defense can't put on through other people, generally the statements
29:34
Speaker 5: of the defendant. It's your say and not allowed. And
29:38
Speaker 5: while the prosecution can, you know, there are ways sometimes
29:44
Speaker 5: like you saw in this case, where they can sneak
29:47
Speaker 5: in and it really is you have to be delicate
29:50
Speaker 5: about the way that you do it. But get in
29:52
Speaker 5: that evidence in another way, and they were. They put
29:55
Speaker 5: on some evidence of her voice, her religious beliefs, and
29:59
Speaker 5: they were able to get that in there. Now the
30:02
Speaker 5: question is, you know, is that enough for these jurors?
30:06
Speaker 5: Is that going to satisfy them? And it's a circumstantial case,
30:11
Speaker 5: you know, and the state does have the burden, it's
30:13
Speaker 5: a high burden, and they had to lay brick by brick,
30:15
Speaker 5: you know, all this circumstantial evidence to convince this jury,
30:20
Speaker 5: you know, beyond a reasonable doubt that Laurie was involved
30:24
Speaker 5: in these murders. And the evidence here is compelling, and
30:30
Speaker 5: I think, you know, I personally think that it was
30:32
Speaker 5: a mistake for the defense not to put on any
30:35
Speaker 5: sort of defense. And I don't think even if it's
30:38
Speaker 5: not Laurie that they put on the stand, you know,
30:42
Speaker 5: it is a significant risk to have that much, you know,
30:48
Speaker 5: bravado and say, well, you know, the state just hasn't
30:52
Speaker 5: proved anything here at all, and we're not putting anything
30:55
Speaker 5: on and then, you know, make a motion for acquittal
30:58
Speaker 5: under rule twenty nine, which is based it has improved
31:01
Speaker 5: their burdens, right, you know, you decided it shouldn't even
31:04
Speaker 5: go as far as the jury.
31:07
Speaker 2: Guys, we heard testimony, the most powerful testimony about little
31:10
Speaker 2: JJ's death.
31:11
Speaker 1: What about Tyley?
31:12
Speaker 10: Listen, doctor one, based on your autopsy of Tydy Ryan
31:16
Speaker 10: and based upon your education, training and experience, have you
31:20
Speaker 10: formed an expert opinion concerning the cause of death of
31:23
Speaker 10: Tidy Ryan? Yes, I what is that cause of death?
31:28
Speaker 11: I determine the cause of death to be homicide by
31:31
Speaker 11: unspecified means.
31:47
Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, her body so mutilated, so dismembered,
31:54
Speaker 2: so mistreated, nothing left but a bucket of human tissue
32:00
Speaker 2: can determine a cod cause of death on ten girl
32:04
Speaker 2: Tilely Scott Morgan, death investigator, what about it?
32:08
Speaker 7: Yeah, the level of brutality is just amazing here. You
32:12
Speaker 7: can't because of so much destruction relative to fire and
32:17
Speaker 7: also these attempts to dismember her or you know, break
32:21
Speaker 7: her body apart, which I think is actually probably what
32:24
Speaker 7: happened in this case. Is it goes beyond anything that
32:30
Speaker 7: most of us can imagine. And if I could just
32:32
Speaker 7: interject this just for a second, and this is only
32:34
Speaker 7: my opinion, you know, there was a lot made. I
32:38
Speaker 7: think of the tool marks that were kind of focused
32:42
Speaker 7: there in her midsection, along the pelvic area. They had
32:45
Speaker 7: mentioned the tailbone at one point in time, Nancy. I
32:48
Speaker 7: think that there's a high probability they may have tried
32:52
Speaker 7: to incinerate her body in total, in whole, without much
32:58
Speaker 7: effort to dismember her. Think that they got very frustrated
33:01
Speaker 7: and as they were attempting to render her body down
33:05
Speaker 7: by fire, somebody went out there, maybe Alex Cox, and
33:09
Speaker 7: used a shovel, this pickaxe or whatever it was to
33:11
Speaker 7: try to break her body apart in the fire, and
33:14
Speaker 7: that's what you're seeing out there with these tool marks.
33:17
Speaker 7: It was, you know, and we'll never know. We'll never know,
33:21
Speaker 7: you know, how she actually came to her end. But
33:25
Speaker 7: she was treated completely different than JJ completely. His body
33:31
Speaker 7: was kind of memorialized and it was set apart, you know, tily.
33:36
Speaker 7: She's placed in an area where they're burying dead animals,
33:39
Speaker 7: and then they're so disrespectful to her remains. I think
33:42
Speaker 7: a lot can be read into that. But at the
33:45
Speaker 7: end of the day, they failed miserably to try to
33:48
Speaker 7: render her completely gone, because many people that try to
33:51
Speaker 7: do this don't realize how much work has to go
33:54
Speaker 7: into this, to tending a fire to try to render
33:56
Speaker 7: her down a body eighteen hundred degrees in a crematory, nancy,
34:00
Speaker 7: and that's with a constant fuel supply of natural gas.
34:04
Speaker 7: They didn't have it all.
34:05
Speaker 1: It makes me think of the case of.
34:08
Speaker 2: Teresa Hallbach and Stephen Avery, who became a media darling
34:15
Speaker 2: in making a murderer, many people thinking that he's innocent.
34:20
Speaker 2: He stood over a fire pit for nearly twenty four
34:23
Speaker 2: hours through the night, trying to burn the body of
34:27
Speaker 2: Teresa hallback.
34:29
Speaker 1: That's how long it takes.
34:32
Speaker 2: And the rendering like you do in a slaughter house
34:35
Speaker 2: to Tilie's body is just unspeakable. And I wonder if,
34:41
Speaker 2: based on the brutality of the way they dismembered her
34:43
Speaker 2: and treated her body, how she was murdered, and what
34:47
Speaker 2: brutality was used in that act, And of course the
34:51
Speaker 2: jury became acquainted with a new character. Take those an
34:56
Speaker 2: hour cut for one four. This is Douglas Hart FBI
35:00
Speaker 2: Special Agent.
35:01
Speaker 12: Line twenty six fifty six from Chad Day Bell to Lorivallo.
35:06
Speaker 12: You are so adorable, beautiful, wonderful, heavenly, luscious and angelic,
35:12
Speaker 12: so many divine attributes rolled into one dynamic, desirable package.
35:17
Speaker 12: I want you even more desperately than you want me.
35:21
Speaker 12: Line twenty six twenty two from Chad Day Bell to Lorivalo.
35:27
Speaker 12: Just grab me by the storm and I will follow
35:29
Speaker 12: you to the ends of the universe. Line twenty six
35:34
Speaker 12: zero eight from Lorivalo to Chad day Bell. When might
35:38
Speaker 12: that be? Line twenty six oh seven from Chad Day
35:43
Speaker 12: Bell to Lorivallo Wednesday evening and then repeatedly and gloriously
35:49
Speaker 12: until Friday.
35:50
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a lot of poetic phraseology to describe jumping
35:55
Speaker 2: in the sack together.
35:56
Speaker 1: So you may wonder who is storm?
36:00
Speaker 7: Uh?
36:00
Speaker 1: Take those now our cut for one six A.
36:02
Speaker 13: Are you aware of what some of the phrase grabbed
36:05
Speaker 13: me by the storm and I will follow you to
36:07
Speaker 13: the ends of the earth.
36:08
Speaker 4: Meant objection, calls for speculation? Thank you?
36:15
Speaker 12: Yes, I'm aware?
36:16
Speaker 4: Okay?
36:17
Speaker 1: What did that mean?
36:20
Speaker 12: The word storm is the name they had given to
36:23
Speaker 12: Chad day Bell's penis.
36:27
Speaker 13: Okay, and so this was an anticipation of getting together
36:31
Speaker 13: with each other for sexual purposes, yes, okay. And at
36:35
Speaker 13: this time Chad Dabell was he still married to Tammy?
36:39
Speaker 8: Yes?
36:40
Speaker 13: How far from Charles Vallow's death was that?
36:44
Speaker 12: This is seven days after Charles Vallow's.
36:47
Speaker 2: Death Storm Storm, with the backdrop of the murders of
36:55
Speaker 2: seven year old JJ and teen girl Tyleie.
36:58
Speaker 1: I got to hear the called.
37:00
Speaker 2: Mom Laurie Valo gave a pet name to the prophet
37:04
Speaker 2: Chad Dabel's penis, Nate Ayton. Did I hear somebody start
37:10
Speaker 2: coughing in the middle of that testimony?
37:13
Speaker 1: I did. Somebody was suppressing a laugh slash cough.
37:18
Speaker 8: You may have heard, yeah, you I was going to
37:22
Speaker 8: say you may have heard coughing laughter. There was actually
37:25
Speaker 8: gasps from the people sitting behind me in the row
37:28
Speaker 8: because we went on to hear that storm was talked
37:32
Speaker 8: about more than once in the text messages, including the
37:36
Speaker 8: morning after Tammy dave Bell died. And that's when Chad
37:40
Speaker 8: also sends a message to Laurie saying I need he
37:43
Speaker 8: You know, he called her many names. He called her
37:45
Speaker 8: Lily and Elena. He said after Tammy Davebell died just
37:50
Speaker 8: hours later. Everybody thinks I'm sad, but they don't know
37:54
Speaker 8: the real reason I'm sad. It's because he missed her.
37:57
Speaker 8: And then he said, I need to I look forward
37:59
Speaker 8: to getting on the Lily diet, strengthen my ab get Tanner,
38:03
Speaker 8: get Centner. It can't come soon enough. So clearly his
38:08
Speaker 8: spouse is dead and people are mourning her loss. He
38:11
Speaker 8: was not thinking about that.
38:13
Speaker 2: Okay, where does storm his penis enter into that conversation.
38:17
Speaker 8: Well, that's probably what he was thinking. Probably all he
38:21
Speaker 8: was thinking about is what I meant to say, Nancy,
38:23
Speaker 8: that is, making sure that he and Laurie could cook
38:26
Speaker 8: up a storm or something.
38:28
Speaker 2: Okay, wait, wait, you just told me something I didn't
38:31
Speaker 2: know and I appreciate that, Nate E. Now I want
38:34
Speaker 2: to go to Robin Drake, behavior expert, former FBI special
38:39
Speaker 2: agent and author of Sizing People Up. Robin So, Tammy
38:48
Speaker 2: Day Bell has only been dead asphyxiated, I might add,
38:56
Speaker 2: for a few hours, and you have the profit Chad
39:04
Speaker 2: da Bell talking about I want to go get in
39:06
Speaker 2: the sun and get a tan and get sin.
39:09
Speaker 8: You know.
39:09
Speaker 2: I'm I want to be with you can't come soon enough.
39:16
Speaker 2: Talking about his penis, everybody thinks I'm upset over Tammy.
39:21
Speaker 1: That's not true.
39:23
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't guess I have to be an FBI
39:25
Speaker 2: special agent and behavior expert, and behavior expert and behavioral
39:30
Speaker 2: analysis figure that out. But I would like to hear
39:34
Speaker 2: your expert analysis.
39:35
Speaker 8: Well, you don't have to be an expert at this one.
39:37
Speaker 8: These are two individuals that have high demands and needs
39:41
Speaker 8: for grandiosity, and they're feeding into it for each other,
39:45
Speaker 8: you know, and with.
39:45
Speaker 2: Chad, hey, slow down, man, I got to I want
39:48
Speaker 2: to hear every word.
39:48
Speaker 1: What did you say about grandiosity?
39:50
Speaker 8: Yeah, so both these individuals have a high high need
39:55
Speaker 8: for grandiosity and that's a science psychopathy, and they're feeding
40:00
Speaker 8: into it with each other. And the way they treat
40:03
Speaker 8: everyone else in their lives, especially their children, as and
40:06
Speaker 8: we just went through the horrific part of it. And
40:10
Speaker 8: for those that think that and claim that she was
40:12
Speaker 8: such a good mother, think about this instead. He objectified
40:17
Speaker 8: people in her life as objects, like a shiny piece
40:21
Speaker 8: of jewelry that made her look good until it no
40:23
Speaker 8: longer did, and then she discarded it. And same thing
40:26
Speaker 8: with both of these individuals. They're feeding into each other's
40:29
Speaker 8: needs for the sense of grandiosophy greatness, and they just
40:33
Speaker 8: keep feeding each other into it, and they exclude everyone
40:36
Speaker 8: else because everyone else to them is just merely an
40:38
Speaker 8: object in their lives to be discarded.
40:40
Speaker 2: The timing of these texts and these conversations between them
40:44
Speaker 2: is very, very important. I want you to take a
40:47
Speaker 2: listen to our cut for one eight our friends at
40:50
Speaker 2: Fox ten, line.
40:51
Speaker 12: Twenty three seventy four from Lori Vala to Chad Dave Bell.
40:55
Speaker 12: It was great. I feel free again. I love you
40:58
Speaker 12: more than ever and can't wait to be with you forever.
41:01
Speaker 14: Hart told the court that record showed Valo and da
41:04
Speaker 14: Bell attended the Church of Jesus Christ Latter day Saints
41:06
Speaker 14: in Gilbert as early as November of twenty eighteen, several
41:10
Speaker 14: months before Valo's fourth husband, Charles was shot and killed
41:13
Speaker 14: and nearly a year before Davell's wife, Tammy died.
41:16
Speaker 2: And the timing and the money motive were two very
41:21
Speaker 2: critical components of the state's case. Take a listen to
41:24
Speaker 2: hour cut four to two four. This is a former
41:26
Speaker 2: FBI special agent Douglas Hart.
41:28
Speaker 12: Charles Valo had changed the beneficiary of his life insurance
41:33
Speaker 12: from Louris Valo to another individual. I included this because
41:37
Speaker 12: it was pertinent in terms of potential financial motives in
41:43
Speaker 12: this case.
41:44
Speaker 13: If you could, starting with the lines on page seventeen,
41:50
Speaker 13: could you take a look at those and read those
41:51
Speaker 13: into the record.
41:52
Speaker 12: Yes, Line twenty seven zero six from Lorii Valo to
41:57
Speaker 12: Chad Dabell. I just got the letter from the insurance
42:01
Speaker 12: company saying that I am not the beneficiary. It is
42:04
Speaker 12: a spear through my heart. Who do you think he
42:07
Speaker 12: changed it to.
42:08
Speaker 2: They're talking about Lori Valo no longer being the insurance beneficiary.
42:14
Speaker 2: Charles Valo was afraid for his own life and had
42:17
Speaker 2: the beneficiary changed from her.
42:18
Speaker 1: Take listen to four two seven.
42:20
Speaker 12: Line twenty seven hundred from Chad day Bell to Lori Valo,
42:25
Speaker 12: it will be interesting if it got changed after he
42:28
Speaker 12: had two bullets in his chest.
42:29
Speaker 2: Incredible, they're saying, whoa, maybe we can beat this life
42:34
Speaker 2: insurance policy change if we can improve after he had
42:38
Speaker 2: two bullets in his chest.
42:40
Speaker 1: It was changed, but they were wrong.
42:42
Speaker 2: Value changed in life insurance before they murdered him. And
42:46
Speaker 2: last during all of this, called Mam Lauri Valo was
42:49
Speaker 2: trying to think about her monthly income off of her
42:52
Speaker 2: dead children.
42:53
Speaker 1: Listen to four two eight same witness.
42:55
Speaker 12: Line twenty six eighty seven from Lori Valo to Chad
42:58
Speaker 12: davel So I talked to the insurance company. He changed
43:03
Speaker 12: it in March, so it was probably ned before we
43:07
Speaker 12: got rid of him. They can't tell me to who,
43:11
Speaker 12: of course, but it's done. I'll still get the four
43:14
Speaker 12: thousand a month from SS.
43:16
Speaker 1: You know Nate Ayton money motive.
43:19
Speaker 2: It's so clear and as far as Tammy day Bill goes,
43:23
Speaker 2: it's all about getting her life insurance policy. That's why
43:26
Speaker 2: he insisted it was a natural cause of death and
43:30
Speaker 2: the money that they would make off the two dead children.
43:33
Speaker 8: Yeah, there was one witness who said that they had
43:35
Speaker 8: even found research that Laurie had done about life insurance
43:39
Speaker 8: policies on kids. There was no sign that Laurie ever
43:42
Speaker 8: took out policies on that, but research was done on
43:45
Speaker 8: her iCloud account that showed that. And she was still
43:49
Speaker 8: receiving money from the kids because she got money from
43:53
Speaker 8: JJ because his dad, Charles was killed, so they got
43:56
Speaker 8: money for that. She got money from Tylie because Tylie's
43:59
Speaker 8: dad died, Joseph Ryan. And then she was receiving money
44:02
Speaker 8: because she was a single mom whose spouse had died,
44:05
Speaker 8: and they said that she would receive that money as
44:07
Speaker 8: long as she didn't get remarried. Oh, by the way,
44:10
Speaker 8: I know you'll be shocked to hear this, Nancy. When
44:12
Speaker 8: she married Tad Davell, she did not let the Social
44:14
Speaker 8: Security Office know that, so she continued to receive money.
44:18
Speaker 6: She was not sentenced today. That will happen in about
44:21
Speaker 6: two to three months. This is an extensive case, so
44:24
Speaker 6: Judge Boyce said that there might need a little bit
44:26
Speaker 6: more time needed. So we're looking probably mid August when
44:30
Speaker 6: that sentence will and she could face up to life
44:33
Speaker 6: in prison on several of the counts. On the conspiracy
44:36
Speaker 6: charges and the murder charges, she could go away for life.
44:40
Speaker 1: Just as delayed but not denied. Call Mam Laurie Valo guilty.
44:46
Speaker 1: Goodbye friend,