Latest / Go Long Podcast / Substack Live: Are the Detroit Lions built to win it all?

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Substack Live: Are the Detroit Lions built to win it all? · Go Long Podcast

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[music]
0:25
SPEAKER_01: We're live.
0:26
SPEAKER_01: We are live on Substack Live.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: Tyler Dunne here.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: Justin Rogers there.
0:33
SPEAKER_01: The Detroit Football Network.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: Make it part of your life as we dive headfirst into the 2026 NFL season.
0:44
SPEAKER_01: It's hoodie season out here in Western New York.
0:46
SPEAKER_01: What's it like out there in Allen Park, Justin?
0:48
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's...
0:50
SPEAKER_01: It's a cool 58 degrees.
0:53
SPEAKER_01: The leaves are starting to change.
0:55
SPEAKER_01: I kind of love it.
0:56
SPEAKER_01: In my old age, I'm done with summer.
0:59
SPEAKER_01: Let's get to fall.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm a little jealous.
1:03
SPEAKER_00: We got a little bit of a reprieve.
1:04
SPEAKER_00: I feel like today, maybe yesterday, but it's still mid to high 70s here.
1:10
SPEAKER_00: Humidity has been brutal this summer.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm out there trying to squeeze in some last rounds of disc golf this summer.
1:17
SPEAKER_00: You need the rosin bag three holes in.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: You can't grip the disc because it's just so much sweat and humidity.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: It's gross.
1:27
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that about you.
1:28
SPEAKER_01: Is that a go-to?
1:32
SPEAKER_00: I picked it up a few years ago,
1:33
SPEAKER_00: and I think the beauty of it versus regular golf is I don't have to schedule
1:39
SPEAKER_00: a tee time and track down somebody to play with and set aside four hours of my day.
1:45
SPEAKER_00: If I've got a window,
1:46
SPEAKER_00: I can drive to the course,
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SPEAKER_00: can generally be done with 18 holes in about 90 minutes to two hours,
1:52
SPEAKER_00: depending on the length.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: And so it's more a product of I have That's right.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: That's impressive, Justin.
2:16
SPEAKER_01: Man, if anybody, we've got a good crew joining the live chat.
2:19
SPEAKER_01: If you've got a question,
2:20
SPEAKER_01: if you've got a comment,
2:21
SPEAKER_01: anything Detroit Lions,
2:22
SPEAKER_01: NFC North,
2:24
SPEAKER_01: let us know organically as we are riffing on all things Tate Ratledge,
2:29
SPEAKER_01: Jared Goff, Dan Campbell.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: We'll get to it.
2:33
SPEAKER_01: So...
2:35
SPEAKER_01: Also, at golongtd.com right now, speaking of, I've got a story on Tate Rattledge.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: Went out there, Justin, not really sure what the story would be.
2:42
SPEAKER_01: He just seems like he was created in a Dan Campbell lab, the mullet in the SEC, the tats.
2:51
SPEAKER_01: Rocking the 6'9".
2:53
SPEAKER_01: It just seemed like the kind of dude that Brad Holmes and Dan Campbell would want.
2:57
SPEAKER_01: I mean, when they really got this whole thing going in 2021-2022,
3:01
SPEAKER_01: it started on the offensive line.
3:03
SPEAKER_01: Panay Sewell, Taylor Decker, building that big V, building that thing up.
3:08
SPEAKER_01: Frank Rag now,
3:09
SPEAKER_01: and now you've got to kind of reset,
3:10
SPEAKER_01: retool, and he's been handpicked as one of the badasses they want on the line.
3:15
SPEAKER_01: And it turned into much more than I thought it would be from That night
3:19
SPEAKER_01: that changed his life, so many lives in Athens, Georgia.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: He lost his best friend,
3:26
SPEAKER_01: Devin Willock on the Georgia football team, opened up on that in great detail.
3:31
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like the psychology of the modern NFL player, I mean,
3:37
SPEAKER_01: you see it in Tate Rattledge and how open he is on just,
3:42
SPEAKER_01: for better or worse, blessing and curse, doesn't believe in mental health.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: Just, you know, if somebody says they're depressed, says stop being effing sad.
3:51
SPEAKER_01: And that can kind of get him into trouble,
3:54
SPEAKER_01: into problems when his wife is crying and she wants a shoulder to lean on.
3:58
SPEAKER_01: He kind of jokes that he tells the dog to cozy up.
4:01
SPEAKER_01: He doesn't really know how to react when people are sad around him.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: But when it comes to football, right, this industry where...
4:09
SPEAKER_01: Literally six days after Jamar Hamlin almost dies on a football field,
4:13
SPEAKER_01: there's games being played.
4:14
SPEAKER_01: The league just high steps right over his body.
4:17
SPEAKER_01: You know, players are getting carted off.
4:19
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it just keeps moving.
4:21
SPEAKER_01: Death, taxes, pro football.
4:23
SPEAKER_01: It does pay.
4:24
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a gift.
4:25
SPEAKER_01: It's a superpower for him.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, thank you so much, everybody out there, for subscribing, for reading.
4:30
SPEAKER_01: The whole story is for our paid subscribers.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: And I really appreciate you, Justin, sharing it with your legion, their DFN nation.
4:37
SPEAKER_01: So thanks so much, line fans, for finding us here at Golong.
4:41
SPEAKER_01: Just, you're there every day, Justin, day in and day out at training camp.
4:44
SPEAKER_01: I know he's working at center now.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: How does Tate Rattledge look?
4:47
SPEAKER_01: How does he kind of factor into their plans on the O-line this year?
4:52
SPEAKER_00: I don't think he's moving to center.
4:53
SPEAKER_00: I got a little fooled.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of interesting,
4:56
SPEAKER_00: like, kind of talking to him and just kind of gleaning tidbits from him.
5:00
SPEAKER_00: He never would say it directly.
5:02
SPEAKER_00: I think that's a guy that subscribes to the idea that whatever the team needs,
5:06
SPEAKER_00: I will do, whether I want to do it or not.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm going to be the team first guy,
5:10
SPEAKER_00: but He clearly didn't love doing the center stuff as a rookie.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: And there's good reason for that, right?
5:16
SPEAKER_00: Like one, he'd never done it before, right?
5:18
SPEAKER_00: Like he was right guard exclusive at Georgia.
5:21
SPEAKER_00: And when you get to the league, like it doesn't matter where you played, like you're swimming.
5:26
SPEAKER_00: You're learning a bigger playbook than anywhere you've played before.
5:29
SPEAKER_00: You're learning new verbiage.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: You're learning new teammates.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: You're learning the adjustment of the strength and the speed of the game,
5:36
SPEAKER_00: which is still another level above even beyond Georgia, Alabama, all that.
5:40
SPEAKER_00: And so you're working through that.
5:43
SPEAKER_00: And then they say, hey, we also need you to rep at center when you get here.
5:47
SPEAKER_00: And all that.
5:49
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, that's a really complicated position.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: It requires communication and different footwork and a deeper totality understanding
5:59
SPEAKER_00: of the offense.
6:00
SPEAKER_00: And so I think he was very, very overwhelmed as a rookie.
6:05
SPEAKER_00: And so.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: I think you can make a really good argument that that involves Ben Bartsch.
6:31
SPEAKER_00: A really quality veteran guard involves Christian Mahogany,
6:33
SPEAKER_00: involves Tate Ratlidge in the middle there.
6:35
SPEAKER_00: Well, one of those guys has got to play center.
6:37
SPEAKER_00: And I think they felt best about Ratlidge there.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: I think they tried it in one practice.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: It clearly wasn't perfect.
6:46
SPEAKER_00: There's some snapping issues in there.
6:48
SPEAKER_00: Barch is now hurt again.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: He's got a concussion that...
6:52
SPEAKER_00: Sounds a little serious, you know, given the fact they brought in a couple guards to try out.
6:57
SPEAKER_00: Yes, we have veteran guards Lakin Tomlinson and Will Hernandez.
7:00
SPEAKER_00: But I think Ratlidge is best at right guard.
7:03
SPEAKER_00: I think they want to keep him at right guard.
7:05
SPEAKER_00: Ultimately,
7:05
SPEAKER_00: he'll end up being either Juice Scruggs,
7:08
SPEAKER_00: which is the 85-90% option,
7:11
SPEAKER_00: or Seth McLaughlin can,
7:13
SPEAKER_00: you know,
7:14
SPEAKER_00: race from behind and claim this job with a couple really,
7:17
SPEAKER_00: really strong preseason performances and a strong close to camp.
7:20
SPEAKER_00: But that's the outside option right now.
7:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and as you know, too, like, these offensive linemen, they speak their own language.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: And if you've got to...
7:30
SPEAKER_01: Stick in one spot,
7:31
SPEAKER_01: play next to the same player, season to season to season to really master it.
7:37
SPEAKER_01: I just go back to TJ Lang and Josh Sitton.
7:39
SPEAKER_01: They were together forever in Green Bay,
7:41
SPEAKER_01: and TJ has talked about it a ton where it gets to the point
7:44
SPEAKER_01: where you don't even have to say anything.
7:46
SPEAKER_01: You see the same thing in that defensive tackle,
7:47
SPEAKER_01: that defensive end, what have you, and you just react.
7:51
SPEAKER_01: It's its own relationship out there on a football field,
7:55
SPEAKER_01: its own marriage,
7:55
SPEAKER_01: and if you start Just discombobulating your offensive line by choice.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: It's like you're creating problems that you don't need to create.
8:04
SPEAKER_01: Guys, I can see him just wanting to be taking one for the team,
8:09
SPEAKER_01: playing wherever you tell him to play.
8:10
SPEAKER_01: This is a kid in, well,
8:13
SPEAKER_01: first Athens,
8:14
SPEAKER_01: Tennessee,
8:15
SPEAKER_01: who might have been whacked with a wooden spoon or two from mom,
8:18
SPEAKER_01: who's really open on all of that.
8:20
SPEAKER_01: It was deep country upbringing there.
8:22
SPEAKER_01: Got kicked out of four daycares.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: Of course, Dan Campbell's going to go after the guy kicked out of four daycares.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: The daughter of the owner of one daycare just wouldn't go down the slide,
8:32
SPEAKER_01: so he just gave her a boot, and then he got the boot.
8:37
SPEAKER_01: And he goes to Kirby Smart,
8:39
SPEAKER_01: wants to win,
8:40
SPEAKER_01: and he's got an aunt and uncle that cut him out of his life completely back
8:43
SPEAKER_01: in Tennessee because of that.
8:45
SPEAKER_01: Point being, yeah, in that Kirby Smart world, he loved it.
8:49
SPEAKER_01: He's getting berated.
8:50
SPEAKER_01: Those practices are different.
8:52
SPEAKER_01: He isn't the type that is going to say, No, Dan, I don't want to do that.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: But the practice probably speaks to itself where you're The position's completely different.
9:03
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we forget about the quarterback center exchange where I can just, hell,
9:07
SPEAKER_01: back in my high school days when our centers changed,
9:11
SPEAKER_01: our backup center,
9:12
SPEAKER_01: when that ball came up to my hands,
9:14
SPEAKER_01: the nose of it would just, it just hit me in the completely wrong spot.
9:17
SPEAKER_01: We fumbled it half the time.
9:19
SPEAKER_01: I know these are professional athletes, but it's not an easy thing to do.
9:23
SPEAKER_01: You have to have that before you can do anything as an offense in pro football.
9:29
SPEAKER_01: And then, yeah,
9:29
SPEAKER_01: you snap the ball,
9:31
SPEAKER_01: your eyes are down,
9:31
SPEAKER_01: you look up, and holy hell, that might be Vita
9:34
SPEAKER_00: Veya running you over.
9:36
SPEAKER_01: So, I don't know, man.
9:37
SPEAKER_01: If you're the Lions, just keep where it's comfortable and keep that thing moving.
9:42
SPEAKER_01: It does start there on the offensive line.
9:44
SPEAKER_01: I know all teams say that, but they're in Detroit.
9:47
SPEAKER_01: It seems like Brad Holmes,
9:48
SPEAKER_01: Dan Campbell,
9:49
SPEAKER_01: they know before we can do anything with all of these weapons,
9:53
SPEAKER_01: holy hell, we've got to get that front five figured out.
9:55
SPEAKER_00: I think it's a story of camp for them.
9:58
SPEAKER_00: They invested heavily in retooling that group this offseason.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: Panay Sewell is moving to the left side.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: Taylor Decker's out.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: They wanted him to take a pay cut.
10:08
SPEAKER_00: He didn't even hear the number.
10:09
SPEAKER_00: He said, no thanks, I'm out.
10:12
SPEAKER_00: You invest in Cade Mays in free agency.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: It's about as much money as you had to spend on the position.
10:18
SPEAKER_00: They weren't going to be in that Tyler Linderbaum market.
10:20
SPEAKER_00: Might have been in the McGovern market if he had made it to free agency.
10:23
SPEAKER_00: He didn't.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: But Mays at 325 pounds,
10:27
SPEAKER_00: that bigger frame certainly kind of fits what they want to do with that kind
10:31
SPEAKER_00: of meanness, that physicality.
10:33
SPEAKER_00: And then you go out and you draft a right tackle in the first round in Blake Miller
10:36
SPEAKER_00: and you talk about Dan Campbell guys or Detroit Lions guys like this is a guy
10:41
SPEAKER_00: that we're at the combine and he's talking about his how much time he's missed
10:47
SPEAKER_00: and it was one or two practices and he talks about how he had to have wrist surgery
10:52
SPEAKER_00: and miss one spring practice and how much it pissed him off and I remember looking
10:55
SPEAKER_00: at a colleague and going This is, this is who they're drafting.
10:58
SPEAKER_00: Like it's a combine.
11:00
SPEAKER_00: Like we haven't even got it.
11:01
SPEAKER_00: Cause like this, this is the guy.
11:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so, uh,
11:06
SPEAKER_00: you just, you,
11:06
SPEAKER_00: you get a sense and a feel for these things,
11:08
SPEAKER_00: but you talk about the chemistry, right.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: And, and, and sitting in line, you know, being able to decipher it.
11:16
SPEAKER_00: It's, it's been pointed out several times locally.
11:18
SPEAKER_00: Like even if maze was in there,
11:21
SPEAKER_00: nobody is playing next to the same guy that they played next to last year.
11:25
SPEAKER_00: Right.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: Like, Rattlich is going to have a different center and a different right tackle.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: Christian Mahogany,
11:31
SPEAKER_00: presuming he holds on the left guard job and given Barch's concussion,
11:34
SPEAKER_00: that's a little bit more locked up right now,
11:35
SPEAKER_00: but different center, different left tackle.
11:38
SPEAKER_00: So they're starting the chemistry from scratch and they're kind of hitting the reset button.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: They have individual pieces that they know are really good.
11:45
SPEAKER_00: They obviously know Pinesul is as good as it gets.
11:49
SPEAKER_00: They feel really good about Rattlich and kind of where his growth went over
11:53
SPEAKER_00: the course of his first season and you Very common.
11:57
SPEAKER_00: You see a second-year jump,
11:58
SPEAKER_00: especially with those big conference guys once they've kind of acclimated.
12:03
SPEAKER_00: They feel good about Mays.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: They feel kind of good about Mahogany.
12:06
SPEAKER_00: They feel good about Blake Miller's future.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: But those guys have to forge chemistry, and that's going to take some time.
12:12
SPEAKER_00: I think there's going to be some lumps they take here early.
12:15
SPEAKER_00: You feel fortunate that maybe that early season schedule is favorable so
12:20
SPEAKER_00: that you can absorb those lumps and You just hope
12:23
SPEAKER_00: that Jared Goff doesn't absorb too many hits during that stretch.
12:28
SPEAKER_01: For a little levity here,
12:29
SPEAKER_01: our pal Dan Lennar, he wants to know, what product does Justin use in his hair?
12:36
SPEAKER_00: The masses need some answers.
12:39
SPEAKER_00: Man, I think the brand is Crew.
12:45
SPEAKER_00: It's like a little round container and throw some defining paste in there.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: Honestly, it's like...
12:52
SPEAKER_00: Once every four days.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: Like, most of this is just, and hand through hair after it dries, and we're good to go.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, training camp, no time to shower, no time for any hygiene problem.
13:04
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'll shower, come on.
13:06
SPEAKER_00: Nah, there's no time.
13:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm not going into camp smelling bad.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: Like I said, it's humid and hot up here.
13:11
SPEAKER_00: You gotta rinse that sweat off every day.
13:14
SPEAKER_01: Good lord.
13:14
SPEAKER_01: I can see Dan looking over at that sideline, going...
13:17
SPEAKER_01: I need to smell some body order.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: I want it to reek over there, guys.
13:22
SPEAKER_01: Come on.
13:22
SPEAKER_01: He's got a club in one hand, a leather football in the other that's beat to hell.
13:27
SPEAKER_01: That's what it's like at Lions Camp, isn't it?
13:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:30
SPEAKER_00: My big adjustment this offseason was investing in the tank tops that go under
13:34
SPEAKER_00: the t-shirts because just tired of the sweat.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: It looks gross.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: You look unprofessional.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: You know me interviewing guys where you're just got the sweat ripping through
13:43
SPEAKER_00: the entire shirt and Look at, I mean,
13:46
SPEAKER_00: they're sweaty,
13:46
SPEAKER_00: I'm sweaty,
13:47
SPEAKER_00: but I'm going to try to maintain at least a little bit of professionalism here.
13:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: That's important.
13:53
SPEAKER_01: I will say, though, I'm a hairy individual, to put it mildly.
13:58
SPEAKER_01: Not on the top of my head.
14:00
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I sweat awful.
14:03
SPEAKER_01: Houston Texans, it was OTAs, it wasn't even training camp, two years ago.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: And we still laugh about it every time I see Matt Burke, the defensive coordinator.
14:10
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, Houston and June.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: It's insane.
14:14
SPEAKER_01: The heat, the humidity, I don't know what the hell's going on.
14:16
SPEAKER_01: Dewpoint, whatever metrics you're metricing.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: It was hot.
14:21
SPEAKER_01: Hot as shit.
14:22
SPEAKER_01: And Matt Burke,
14:23
SPEAKER_01: the defensive coordinator I was going to talk to about,
14:25
SPEAKER_01: Will Anderson Jr., comes up to me.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: He goes, hey, man, how's it going?
14:29
SPEAKER_01: And he whacked me on the back, you know, being friendly.
14:32
SPEAKER_01: He goes, oh, man, you're not from here, are you?
14:37
SPEAKER_00: That's gross.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I had a sweaty back situation going on there.
14:41
SPEAKER_01: So that's how we launched.
14:43
SPEAKER_01: That working relationship.
14:44
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it was a great conversation.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: And you got to go two shirts, man.
14:49
SPEAKER_01: I get it.
14:49
SPEAKER_01: It's like the old Stewie Griffin and family guy when he goes back to high school.
14:53
SPEAKER_01: I wear short sleeve shirts over long sleeve shirts over short sleeve shirts.
14:56
SPEAKER_01: You got to do that as a middle aged man covering pro football.
15:00
SPEAKER_00: Went down to Houston for joint practices.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: I think it was three, maybe four years ago.
15:05
SPEAKER_00: And I think they were having record temperatures, which is not great.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, 100 degrees, 90% humidity, whatever.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: And we played a round of golf, by the way.
15:15
SPEAKER_00: There was this cool golf course.
15:16
SPEAKER_00: You know Houston.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: You could drive for an hour and you're still in Houston.
15:19
SPEAKER_00: It might have been north side of the city or maybe beyond where.
15:24
SPEAKER_00: Really cool concept.
15:25
SPEAKER_00: The course is 18 holes that are replicas of the most famous holes in the U.S.
15:29
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you've heard of this concept.
15:31
SPEAKER_00: Very, very cool concept.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: It was me, Tim Twentyman, the late Fred McLeod, and Dan Miller.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: I don't think there was anybody else on the course.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: Houstonians knew you stay inside, but you got these windows and you take advantage of them.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: But the only thing I remember from that,
15:48
SPEAKER_00: and I don't know if you saw this,
15:49
SPEAKER_00: that the Texans have these giant,
15:52
SPEAKER_00: basically refrigerators on the sidelines with benches for the players to go sit in
15:57
SPEAKER_00: a 40, 50 degree cooler to cool down.
16:01
SPEAKER_00: And at the end of practice,
16:02
SPEAKER_00: as all the players have kind of already wandered away,
16:04
SPEAKER_00: just me and Chris Burke of the Athletic just Quietly wandered in there.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: Nobody stopped us.
16:09
SPEAKER_00: And we just chilled in the refrigerator for a little bit.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: Reverse sauna.
16:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:14
SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking back to your, I don't know if it was your very first piece of content.
16:18
SPEAKER_01: It was early where you and Dan Skipper just slid into that cold tub together, right?
16:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: I wish somebody would have told me to keep your feet out because they burned for days.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: Did they?
16:28
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I mean, we were in there for, I mean, 18 minutes.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: Like that's too long to be in a cold tub when you've never done it before.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: Burn.
16:38
SPEAKER_01: Awesome story and video, all of it, Detroit Football Network for my viewers and readers here.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: You've got a great story of this offseason,
16:47
SPEAKER_01: Taylor Decker, explaining everything that happened there.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: I mean, for those who might have missed it, what the hell happened?
16:51
SPEAKER_01: Because every time I'm out there in Allen Park,
16:54
SPEAKER_01: you feel that magnetic pull to him because he's seen everything.
16:59
SPEAKER_01: He's seen the shit.
16:59
SPEAKER_01: He's seen where the organization was and where they're trying to go.
17:03
SPEAKER_01: I agree.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: I think like all problems in all industries,
17:29
SPEAKER_00: it was a communication breakdown on both sides,
17:33
SPEAKER_00: but I think a little bit more on the organization side.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: Got to the exit interviews.
17:39
SPEAKER_00: They said, hey, we would love to have you back.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: We also know that you're considering retirement.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: Take your time.
17:46
SPEAKER_00: Figure out what you need to do.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: But if you could, don't leave us in the Frank Ragnow situation.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: They learned a lesson.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: Don't tell us in June or July.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: Can you tell us,
17:56
SPEAKER_00: I think they set the date the day before or the day of the negotiation periods
18:00
SPEAKER_00: in free agency, whatever that was, March 11th, March 13th, whatever it was.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: And he said, sure.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: That's a reasonable request.
18:07
SPEAKER_00: And so I know I texted him a few times.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: I didn't, you know, he's not going to give me the scoop on his decision.
18:13
SPEAKER_00: It's a pretty heavy one.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: He's weighing on it.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: But, you know, just checking in on him.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: And at some point I said, hey,
18:19
SPEAKER_00: when I come down to Arizona,
18:21
SPEAKER_00: whatever you decide,
18:22
SPEAKER_00: Can I maybe spend an afternoon with you and your family and just kind of go
18:27
SPEAKER_00: through it from that perspective?
18:28
SPEAKER_00: What is the weight of returning or retiring and how much did your family weigh in on it?
18:35
SPEAKER_00: Because that was really the big deciding factor for them.
18:38
SPEAKER_00: So anyway, we're at the Combine.
18:40
SPEAKER_00: And right before we're getting ready to talk to Drew Petsing,
18:44
SPEAKER_00: the new offensive coordinator for the first time,
18:46
SPEAKER_00: Taylor throws out on social media his post he's returning.
18:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's like, damn it.
18:55
SPEAKER_00: Like any other time, like we're not busy enough already, like any other time.
18:58
SPEAKER_00: So whatever, uh, write it up and then it gets weird.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: And then suddenly there's a tweet that comes in.
19:07
SPEAKER_00: We're releasing Taylor Decker.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: And so, uh, you know, write up the news and whatnot and then reach out a day later.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, look, I,
19:18
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you want to talk,
19:19
SPEAKER_00: but I'm still coming out to Arizona for the league meetings.
19:23
SPEAKER_00: I'd love to talk to you if you're available.
19:25
SPEAKER_00: He says, give me a few days to think about it.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: Comes back, says, sure, I'll talk.
19:29
SPEAKER_00: So go down there and kind of the his side,
19:34
SPEAKER_00: which I have no reason to not believe based on the long term relationship I have
19:39
SPEAKER_00: with him.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, what I know about Taylor is that nothing was talked about a pay cut until
19:49
SPEAKER_00: That time, right?
19:51
SPEAKER_00: It was after he had kind of announced he was coming back.
19:53
SPEAKER_00: And so he had tried to reach out to Dan and Brad Holmes first
19:58
SPEAKER_00: to let him know he was coming back.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: He got a hold of Dan.
20:01
SPEAKER_00: Dan said, great, let me talk to Brad.
20:02
SPEAKER_00: We're going down to Indy this weekend.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: And Brad never called him back.
20:10
SPEAKER_00: And so there's multiple people in the organization have told me,
20:15
SPEAKER_00: did he have the right number for Brad?
20:18
SPEAKER_00: The reason I think that is actually a viable potential excuse is the number I had
20:23
SPEAKER_00: for Brad no longer works.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: Or at that time, that number no longer works.
20:28
SPEAKER_00: And so I do think it's possible that he left texts or voicemails with a number
20:33
SPEAKER_00: that was no longer active for Brad Holmes.
20:37
SPEAKER_00: It still is weird that he didn't hear back from the organization after,
20:40
SPEAKER_00: I don't know what it was,
20:42
SPEAKER_00: 30 hours before,
20:43
SPEAKER_00: from the time he talked to Dan Campbell to the time he posted on social media
20:46
SPEAKER_00: that he was coming back, he's like, I cleared it with my agent.
20:49
SPEAKER_00: He's like, hey, we haven't heard back.
20:50
SPEAKER_00: Are we sure I'm good to tell the fan base?
20:53
SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: And the agent's like, yeah, I don't see any reason why not.
20:57
SPEAKER_00: Then the pay cut came up.
20:58
SPEAKER_00: Decker said, hey, this was never discussed.
21:01
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to do this.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: And they reached the impasse that they did.
21:07
SPEAKER_00: I think that the Lions could have done a really good,
21:10
SPEAKER_00: better job of approaching the pay cut earlier.
21:13
SPEAKER_00: And if you're leaving that player alone to let him make his decision,
21:16
SPEAKER_00: I think you could still go to the agent and say, hey, we're leaving him alone.
21:20
SPEAKER_00: We're letting him make this decision.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: But we're going to tell you,
21:23
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if the salary that he made last year is going to work for us.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: So when you feel it's right as his agent to have that conversation, have that with him.
21:33
SPEAKER_00: But it just sounds like there wasn't great communication all the way through.
21:37
SPEAKER_00: Led to some hurt feelings.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: I think we all know that Decker's an emotional player.
21:41
SPEAKER_00: He wears his heart on his sleeve.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: And it was kind of an unfortunate ending to a really great career for a guy
21:52
SPEAKER_00: who gave it all here and got to see kind of that going from the bottom
21:57
SPEAKER_00: to Super Bowl contention.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's just an unfortunate situation.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: You know, time will heal those wounds.
22:03
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure he'll come back at some point and be brought back into the fold.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: But for that little brief moment,
22:08
SPEAKER_00: it was a little, I don't know, toxic, unfortunate, however you want to classify it.
22:15
SPEAKER_01: That's a hell of a breakdown,
22:17
SPEAKER_01: you know, because I think outside looking in, it makes too much sense.
22:22
SPEAKER_01: This is a veteran who's been through the muck,
22:25
SPEAKER_01: who has seen the worst of the worst,
22:26
SPEAKER_01: the Matt Patricia days, not pretty, all of that.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: And this is a Super Bowl contender.
22:32
SPEAKER_01: I think I'm going to pick the Detroit Lions to get to the Super Bowl this year.
22:35
SPEAKER_01: Many people will if they're not picking the Rams.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: Why wouldn't both parties just figure it out?
22:41
SPEAKER_01: Because it makes too much sense.
22:43
SPEAKER_01: And the longer you cover this league,
22:44
SPEAKER_01: the more you see these veterans when they get into their mid to late 30s.
22:47
SPEAKER_01: It's not necessarily,
22:48
SPEAKER_01: it is about that often,
22:50
SPEAKER_01: but it's not as much about the money and how much you're going to make.
22:55
SPEAKER_01: It's just wanting to feel respected and loved and just, it's pride.
23:02
SPEAKER_01: It's pride.
23:03
SPEAKER_01: I mean, Aaron Rodgers made that abundantly clear through his divorce with Green Bay
23:08
SPEAKER_01: that kind of lingered on and you see it with quarterbacks all the time.
23:12
SPEAKER_01: And I'm not going to name this player by name,
23:14
SPEAKER_01: but I was talking to a player this offseason for another team who feels the same way
23:20
SPEAKER_01: about the team he has played for for a very long time.
23:23
SPEAKER_01: It's not about money.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: It's about how they treated him.
23:27
SPEAKER_01: He's pissed off.
23:28
SPEAKER_01: This team probably could use him.
23:30
SPEAKER_01: Both parties could probably use each other.
23:31
SPEAKER_01: Very similar situation.
23:34
SPEAKER_01: And he's not going to go back there hearing what went down
23:38
SPEAKER_01: with his contracting incentives and miscommunication, as you put.
23:43
SPEAKER_01: And at the end of the day, it's not unlike any industry, any business.
23:49
SPEAKER_01: It's humans dealing with humans, people talking to people, just communicate, be honest.
23:55
SPEAKER_01: Honesty is the best policy.
23:56
SPEAKER_01: It's like a marriage, right?
23:57
SPEAKER_01: If there's something on your mind, just say it.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: So let your husband know,
24:01
SPEAKER_01: let your wife know,
24:02
SPEAKER_01: put it all out there is bottling it up and playing this passive aggressive game
24:06
SPEAKER_01: to any extent doesn't do anybody any favors.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: What I would say is that this Lions organization under the Brad Holmes,
24:15
SPEAKER_00: Dan Campbell regime has been built on continuity and loyalty, right?
24:19
SPEAKER_00: Like they have rewarded all these different guys at the draft.
24:22
SPEAKER_00: They've rewarded these veterans.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: They gave an extension to Decker.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: They gave,
24:27
SPEAKER_00: they signed Alex Anzalone twice and,
24:31
SPEAKER_00: Last year's disappointment kind of forced a reevaluation of where they were.
24:35
SPEAKER_00: They're like, hey, can we continue on this path?
24:37
SPEAKER_00: Are we going to plateau out?
24:39
SPEAKER_00: Or do we need to hit a reset button?
24:40
SPEAKER_00: And you go through this as an organization every year where you evaluate
24:45
SPEAKER_00: and you tear down every part of it.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: And at some point in that evaluation from the end of the regular season to the start
24:54
SPEAKER_00: of free agency or before, like they said, look, we have to get younger.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: And so with that comes casualties.
25:04
SPEAKER_00: And often with some of the longest tenured, most respected leaders on the squad.
25:11
SPEAKER_00: And so we saw with Decker, we also saw with Anzalone.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: You know, I think he left here.
25:15
SPEAKER_00: I don't think he left here.
25:16
SPEAKER_00: He left here kind of bitter and jaded by the way they handled the end of his tenure here.
25:22
SPEAKER_00: You know, he wanted to be here.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: And the Lions were not interested in paying the market rate for a linebacker
25:32
SPEAKER_00: that was on the cusp of, I believe, his 31st birthday.
25:34
SPEAKER_00: And if it wasn't his 31st birthday,
25:36
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure I'll hear from somebody in his camp that I aged him an extra year.
25:41
SPEAKER_00: But, like, those are really tough decisions.
25:44
SPEAKER_00: And I think the Lions didn't have to have those awkward conversations
25:50
SPEAKER_00: with those caliber players at any previous time during the tenure.
25:54
SPEAKER_00: Like, Did they have hard conversations with letting people go?
25:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you had them every single year at training camp.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: We saw it on hard knocks where you have to let a Dan Skipper or a Tom Kennedy go
26:02
SPEAKER_00: where you love what they brought to the table, but they didn't fit.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: That's different than having the conversation with
26:07
SPEAKER_00: the five-time defensive captain saying, we have to get younger at your position.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: We aren't going to pay you anymore.
26:15
SPEAKER_00: We need youth.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: We need salary relief.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: And so I just don't think the Lions handled some of that with a lot
26:22
SPEAKER_00: of grace this offseason and None of that matters if you win,
26:26
SPEAKER_00: but in those short windows, those moments, the optics aren't good.
26:35
SPEAKER_00: It's tough.
26:35
SPEAKER_00: People love those players.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: Those players love being here.
26:37
SPEAKER_00: They gave everything they got,
26:39
SPEAKER_00: and then it's just you rip the Band-Aid off and you move on to the next.
26:43
SPEAKER_00: You deal with the bad headlines in March and April,
26:46
SPEAKER_00: and then you get back on the football field,
26:48
SPEAKER_00: and nobody's going to remember those stories if they start off 6-0.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: The best teams do this too.
26:55
SPEAKER_01: The best teams know it's smarter to say goodbye a year too soon versus a year or two
27:03
SPEAKER_01: or three too late.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you're going to be all nostalgic and yeah, you have to pay for future production.
27:11
SPEAKER_01: You're not going to hit every single time,
27:12
SPEAKER_01: but from Ted Thompson to Brian Gutekinds and Green Bay,
27:16
SPEAKER_01: and that's why Aaron Rodgers had that airing of grievances press conference.
27:20
SPEAKER_01: When he finally returned to 1265 Lombardi Ave in 2021 that summer,
27:24
SPEAKER_01: he held the team hostage for three and a half months and put it out there
27:29
SPEAKER_01: that Brian Gutekinds needed to be fired, the GM fired for him to step another foot.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: He has never denied that, by the way.
27:36
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that was the truth.
27:38
SPEAKER_01: And then,
27:39
SPEAKER_01: you know,
27:39
SPEAKER_01: he returns,
27:41
SPEAKER_01: has that press conference,
27:42
SPEAKER_01: and he's listing off all these players that Green Bay should have kept
27:46
SPEAKER_01: to keep contending.
27:47
SPEAKER_01: And Props to my former Milwaukee Journal Sentinel colleague Tom Silverstein
27:53
SPEAKER_01: for politely pointing out to Aaron.
27:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Aaron, they were right to move on from a lot of those guys when they did.
28:00
SPEAKER_01: Brad Holmes, Dan Campbell, they had their finger at the pulse of this team at this time.
28:05
SPEAKER_01: Let's get to it.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: It just seems all business out there.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: I will say one more thing on this.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, go ahead.
28:10
SPEAKER_00: Just one thing I hate about the NFL, and I don't have a solution, right?
28:14
SPEAKER_00: But like, The contracts are not in favor of the players, right?
28:20
SPEAKER_00: Like if you underperform, you get cut or you get asked to take a pay cut.
28:25
SPEAKER_00: You overperform, like you can hold out.
28:29
SPEAKER_00: Like only a few guys can successfully hold out, right?
28:31
SPEAKER_00: But like very rarely does that equal a pay raise or an extension
28:37
SPEAKER_00: that pays you what you're worth for overperforming.
28:41
SPEAKER_00: And so it's always like in the team's favor and You learn really quickly
28:46
SPEAKER_00: in this industry, fans side with the team over the player.
28:48
SPEAKER_00: They always do.
28:51
SPEAKER_00: I think Calvin Johnson hammered that home for me more than anyone.
28:55
SPEAKER_00: Nobody was more dominant and more productive and more exciting to cover than Calvin Johnson.
29:04
SPEAKER_00: Gave everything he had, was humble, no problems off the field.
29:07
SPEAKER_00: And then the team reclaims his, you know, whatever, $800,000 or $1.2 million in signing bonus.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: And you're like, that's pretty petty.
29:15
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know,
29:17
SPEAKER_00: the organization looks bad,
29:18
SPEAKER_00: but because Calvin kind of severed ties with him and called him out for it,
29:24
SPEAKER_00: like Calvin got labeled as a baby by the fan base and they turned against him.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: And that was just, It's just really eye-opening, but that's very consistently where it lands.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: And so it's kind of why I'm always for players getting as much as you can
29:38
SPEAKER_00: when you can because this league will chew up and spit you out and not think twice
29:42
SPEAKER_00: about it.
29:43
SPEAKER_00: They'll ask you to take pay cuts.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: They'll cut you.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: So get your money.
29:46
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
29:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, don't get it twisted.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: We are pro player at Go Long as well because with the average careers,
29:54
SPEAKER_01: two and a half, three years, you're doing damage to your body, to your brain.
30:00
SPEAKER_01: Hal listed that pod with Amon Green.
30:01
SPEAKER_01: He's got early onset Parkinson's.
30:03
SPEAKER_01: I think there's so much neurologically that we don't even know what this sport can do to you.
30:08
SPEAKER_01: I mean, Chris Johnson, horrifying.
30:11
SPEAKER_01: ALS, four times more likely to ALS if you play in the NFL.
30:15
SPEAKER_01: So get every penny up.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: You can conceivably get.
30:21
SPEAKER_01: It's the unfortunate part about it.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: All right, so you're there every day watching this team in training camp.
30:28
SPEAKER_01: No joints this year, but Dan was promising violence and physicality back in OTAs and minicamp.
30:36
SPEAKER_01: What does it look like up close?
30:37
SPEAKER_01: Because that's the big question with this team.
30:39
SPEAKER_01: Every November,
30:41
SPEAKER_01: December,
30:42
SPEAKER_01: They're grab-bagging for Jamal Adams,
30:45
SPEAKER_01: Miles Adams, Sam Adams, whoever they can to fill out a defense.
30:50
SPEAKER_01: And you don't want to be in that place.
30:53
SPEAKER_01: If they stay healthy, they're as talented as any team in the NFL.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: And a big reason that Dan Campbell woke this organization up from the dead is
31:03
SPEAKER_01: the way he practices, is the way he coaches.
31:05
SPEAKER_01: Guys want to run through that proverbial wall.
31:07
SPEAKER_01: All that stuff is...
31:09
SPEAKER_01: It's so real out there.
31:10
SPEAKER_01: That's why I wrote earlier this offseason, you can't change.
31:14
SPEAKER_01: Don't ask Dan Campbell to change.
31:16
SPEAKER_01: That's how he woke up
31:17
SPEAKER_00: the lines.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: And don't ask Josh Allen to change.
31:19
SPEAKER_01: I mean, oh my God,
31:20
SPEAKER_01: the talking point, every offseason, you got to slide, got to step out of bounds.
31:25
SPEAKER_01: Don't take this chance.
31:26
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, if you want to neuter your quarterback, I hope you enjoy 9-8, 10-7.
31:31
SPEAKER_01: No, to be special,
31:33
SPEAKER_01: to get to Super Bowl,
31:34
SPEAKER_01: you got to ask the faces of your franchises to be the coach,
31:37
SPEAKER_01: the quarterback, be themselves.
31:39
SPEAKER_01: But it has come with collateral damage in Detroit.
31:41
SPEAKER_01: So what do you see, Justin Rogers?
31:44
SPEAKER_00: I love joint practices.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: I feel like maybe right now we're dealing with a little turning point in the league
31:49
SPEAKER_00: where like players are turning against them and coaches are turning against them
31:54
SPEAKER_00: and maybe Dan was a little ahead of the curve here that...
31:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:17
SPEAKER_00: We talk about offseason evaluations.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: I think that was one that the Lions said, hey, we're going to dial back.
32:21
SPEAKER_00: We're not going to put our players in jeopardy in an environment
32:24
SPEAKER_00: where we can't have total control of the tone and tenor of practice and
32:31
SPEAKER_00: the ramifications if you exceed that tone and tenor.
32:34
SPEAKER_00: Look, they practice physical.
32:37
SPEAKER_00: I think it's a little overblown because they've dealt with so many injuries.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: I went through the tape of all those injuries for two years and Just a lot
32:49
SPEAKER_00: of bad luck more so than like a consistent theme of like, hey,
32:55
SPEAKER_00: these guys are all dealing with this type of injury because they got,
32:58
SPEAKER_00: you know, blown up in training camp.
33:02
SPEAKER_00: I at one point tried to dig into where the Lions practice is too aggressive.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: And the first person I went to talk to is Frank Ragnow.
33:11
SPEAKER_00: And I said, you know,
33:15
SPEAKER_00: What do you think when people say that?
33:16
SPEAKER_00: And he laughs at me and he goes, these don't hold a candle to what we were doing with Patricia.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: The story dies on the vine there.
33:24
SPEAKER_00: Not that you want to compare anything to what happened under the Matt Patricia era,
33:27
SPEAKER_00: but like,
33:27
SPEAKER_00: all right, well,
33:28
SPEAKER_00: we already know Matt Patricia basically copy and pasted everything they did
33:32
SPEAKER_00: in New England and there's New England influence that had been all over the league.
33:36
SPEAKER_00: So it's like, all right, we already know like these aren't the most intense practices.
33:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, They practice in pads.
33:43
SPEAKER_00: They tackle in full.
33:46
SPEAKER_00: That's the thing.
33:46
SPEAKER_00: Tackling in full, right?
33:48
SPEAKER_01: Fred Warner's taking that shot on his podcast.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: Which is hilarious to me because what team has been more into the Lions?
33:56
SPEAKER_00: It's the 49ers.
33:58
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: Great.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: And I'll say this too, like, You don't want guys tackling in full practice.
34:04
SPEAKER_00: Great.
34:04
SPEAKER_00: You're also going to be the guy bitching when they miss a tackle in a game
34:08
SPEAKER_00: because they didn't practice the technique out of anything outside of
34:12
SPEAKER_00: a tackling dummy, which isn't enough.
34:15
SPEAKER_00: You have to practice the fundamentals and the techniques live to be
34:21
SPEAKER_00: a good tackling football team.
34:23
SPEAKER_00: And so there are always going to be give and takes.
34:26
SPEAKER_00: I don't think that the Lions training camp injuries are excessive.
34:30
SPEAKER_00: Cade Mays, Broken Wrist.
34:32
SPEAKER_00: Very unfortunate.
34:33
SPEAKER_00: Got chopped by a defensive lineman.
34:35
SPEAKER_00: Whether you're going full tackle or not,
34:37
SPEAKER_00: a defensive lineman is going to be working on his pass rush moves.
34:41
SPEAKER_00: The wrist has tiny little bones.
34:43
SPEAKER_00: It could have happened to anyone at any time.
34:45
SPEAKER_00: See Ennis Rakestraw go down in practice yesterday.
34:48
SPEAKER_00: Non-contact.
34:49
SPEAKER_00: Just changing directions.
34:51
SPEAKER_00: We saw an ACL blow in OTAs.
34:55
SPEAKER_00: Again, non-contact.
34:57
SPEAKER_00: Injuries just happen.
34:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, in this sport, it is violent.
35:02
SPEAKER_00: There is accumulation,
35:03
SPEAKER_00: but also like these are finely tuned athletes going full speed,
35:09
SPEAKER_00: colliding full speed, changing directions.
35:11
SPEAKER_00: It's tough to stop 300 pounds moving one way and force it
35:15
SPEAKER_00: to go full speed another way over and over and over again.
35:17
SPEAKER_00: It's hard on the body.
35:18
SPEAKER_00: And so, um, they do have a top end training staff.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: Uh, one of the most respected guys in the league,
35:26
SPEAKER_00: um, He
35:34
SPEAKER_00: said,
35:38
SPEAKER_00: I never saw light under the tunnel with my injuries previously.
35:42
SPEAKER_00: At that point, he got a plan and he felt really good about it.
35:45
SPEAKER_00: But what I will say about the Lions right now in terms of how they look,
35:51
SPEAKER_00: the defenses look better in the offense.
35:53
SPEAKER_00: I think that's without question.
35:55
SPEAKER_00: I think it's sometimes really tough to I mean, Calvin Shepard, I think, is going to just
36:22
SPEAKER_00: Bring the house all the time.
36:24
SPEAKER_00: Safeties, cornerbacks, linebackers, I think they're just going to blitz a ton.
36:28
SPEAKER_00: It's always been kind of part of their DNA dating back to Aaron Glenn,
36:31
SPEAKER_00: but I think that might even be ramped up another degree this year.
36:37
SPEAKER_00: For the offense, I think they're still working on some of their timing.
36:40
SPEAKER_00: Remember, this is a team that has led the NFL in Yak the last few years.
36:44
SPEAKER_00: They are speed and space.
36:46
SPEAKER_00: Jameer Gibbs,
36:47
SPEAKER_00: Amon Ross St. Brown,
36:48
SPEAKER_00: Jamison Williams, who,
36:49
SPEAKER_00: by the way,
36:51
SPEAKER_00: After taking a massive leap last year, he's taking another massive leap this year.
36:55
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the kid just keeps growing exponentially in his route running, in his physicality.
37:03
SPEAKER_00: Their offensive weapons are really good,
37:06
SPEAKER_00: but they're all really good with the ball in their hands just as much
37:09
SPEAKER_00: as anything else.
37:10
SPEAKER_00: And so, you know,
37:11
SPEAKER_00: they're still working on some of the landmarks in the screen game
37:14
SPEAKER_00: and getting those blockers in the right position to maximize a lot of that stuff.
37:21
SPEAKER_00: Offensive line chemistry is still formulating.
37:23
SPEAKER_00: It might be clunky early,
37:24
SPEAKER_00: but I really think that once they kind of get in a rhythm and
37:30
SPEAKER_00: a cohesiveness together,
37:31
SPEAKER_00: this offense is going to continue to be a unit that threatens 30 points a game week
37:36
SPEAKER_00: in and week out.
37:39
SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
37:40
SPEAKER_01: For the Kyler Murray stuff that we had at our site,
37:43
SPEAKER_01: I spent some time talking to coaches in Arizona and With an open mind.
37:49
SPEAKER_01: Like, what did you see on Kyler Murray?
37:51
SPEAKER_01: What's right?
37:51
SPEAKER_01: What's wrong?
37:53
SPEAKER_01: And came away from that thinking, holy shit, this place is just such a mess.
37:59
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it really is.
38:00
SPEAKER_01: From the top down.
38:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure if
38:02
SPEAKER_01: Drew Petsing sits down and talks off the record and is honest
38:07
SPEAKER_01: with you guys,
38:07
SPEAKER_01: he'd probably have a story or two to share from that Bidwellian dystopia they have
38:14
SPEAKER_01: with the Arizona Cardinals.
38:15
SPEAKER_01: I mean, Marvin Harrison Jr.,
38:18
SPEAKER_01: Was described to me as the hardest player some have coached on staff out there
38:22
SPEAKER_01: in Arizona for all the reasons you wouldn't expect out of a wide receiver.
38:27
SPEAKER_01: Doesn't have that dog, doesn't have confidence, plays small, plays slow.
38:33
SPEAKER_01: So this isn't just to completely absolve Drew Petsy for an offense that's sputtered,
38:38
SPEAKER_01: but also his quarterback goes down in year two.
38:41
SPEAKER_01: Kyler Murray is dealing with that injury,
38:43
SPEAKER_01: and then you've got an owner and a GM that want to lose.
38:47
SPEAKER_01: And would prefer the inferior quarterback play.
38:50
SPEAKER_01: And so all the coaches get fired, right?
38:52
SPEAKER_01: They got to deal with that.
38:54
SPEAKER_01: I like his offense.
38:55
SPEAKER_01: Schematically, the closer you look.
38:58
SPEAKER_01: And look, Jameer, he does a lot with the run game, right?
39:01
SPEAKER_01: Jameer Gibbs averaged less than four yards per carry in five of his last six games.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: Which is insane when you look at what he did the game before that stretch against the Giants.
39:12
SPEAKER_01: Right when Panay Sewell, he's throwing up the touchdown touchdown.
39:15
SPEAKER_01: And Gibbs is at midfield to win that game.
39:18
SPEAKER_01: They got to get that thing going.
39:20
SPEAKER_01: What do you see out of this offense?
39:21
SPEAKER_01: What do you see out of this run game?
39:23
SPEAKER_01: Because I think Gibbs, we probably got a lot of people in this live chat.
39:26
SPEAKER_01: They got their fantasy drafts coming up too.
39:30
SPEAKER_01: Everything I heard out there in minicamp is you better draft Jameer Gibbs,
39:33
SPEAKER_01: number one, if you've got the number one pick.
39:35
SPEAKER_01: He is going to get the ball early and often.
39:38
SPEAKER_01: And this scheme seems to fit what he does best.
39:41
SPEAKER_01: In addition to all the MMA training, there's a lot going on with Jameer Gibbs.
39:45
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'm in a fantasy league that I've been in, I think now 20 years.
39:49
SPEAKER_00: I genuinely don't pay attention to that one, but, uh,
39:53
SPEAKER_00: I would be shocked if,
39:56
SPEAKER_00: if Gibbs is not one of the three most productive fantasy players,
40:03
SPEAKER_00: uh, assuming he stays healthy, right?
40:05
SPEAKER_00: Like it's always the caveat in the NFL.
40:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, since he's been back, He looks just like himself.
40:13
SPEAKER_00: I mean, just the burst, the acceleration to the perimeter.
40:16
SPEAKER_00: I think his ability to run between the tackles has been underrated since he got here
40:21
SPEAKER_00: because he's not the stoutest guy,
40:23
SPEAKER_00: but he runs fearlessly and with kind of some power and nastiness to him between
40:30
SPEAKER_00: the tackles.
40:31
SPEAKER_00: And he's doing a little bit more in the pass game every year.
40:35
SPEAKER_00: And you see them flex him into the slot to just kind of stress the defense a little bit more.
40:39
SPEAKER_00: I think the run game in practice looked a lot better first when Pacheco was
40:45
SPEAKER_00: in there kind of filling in.
40:47
SPEAKER_00: He's currently dealing with a little bit of an MCL issue,
40:50
SPEAKER_00: but expect to be ready for the regular season.
40:52
SPEAKER_00: I think he's looked refreshed and good.
40:55
SPEAKER_00: I think it's going to work out really well as a compliment, a power compliment.
40:59
SPEAKER_00: I think there's a chip on the shoulder,
41:00
SPEAKER_00: and that's a guy you want to have a chip on the shoulder.
41:03
SPEAKER_00: Gibbs is going to be fine.
41:04
SPEAKER_00: And then like I talked about with St. Brown, I say this a lot.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if there's an NFL player that gets more out of their physical talent
41:16
SPEAKER_00: than Amon Ross St. Brown.
41:18
SPEAKER_00: I just don't.
41:19
SPEAKER_00: He's so...
41:22
SPEAKER_00: Damn consistent.
41:23
SPEAKER_00: Day in and day out.
41:25
SPEAKER_00: And the thing that he's kind of added to his arsenal this year,
41:27
SPEAKER_00: and I smile because it's like,
41:30
SPEAKER_00: it really is like jaw dropping to watch how good he is, is these late hands.
41:35
SPEAKER_00: Like he'll be running around and he'll be stride for the cornerback.
41:38
SPEAKER_00: We strive for stride with him, not looking.
41:40
SPEAKER_00: And then like last second, St. Brown's hands are out there and the ball is dropping in.
41:44
SPEAKER_00: Like the timing, the consistency to make contested catches.
41:48
SPEAKER_00: I think he might actually be able to unlock something in his game.
41:53
SPEAKER_00: St.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: Brown doesn't do a ton vertically.
42:03
SPEAKER_00: It's fine.
42:03
SPEAKER_00: He maximizes his talent.
42:04
SPEAKER_00: Everything else does well,
42:05
SPEAKER_00: but he's been running some of these go routes and these fade routes
42:08
SPEAKER_00: and throwing these late hands and it's given Detroit's cornerbacks fits
42:12
SPEAKER_00: because they're worried about staying with him stride for stride.
42:16
SPEAKER_00: They're trying to read his hands and he's not giving that tip away and
42:19
SPEAKER_00: then Williams, I mean, just stronger.
42:23
SPEAKER_00: The route running is great.
42:24
SPEAKER_00: We saw last year him take it to another level with some of the curl routes that,
42:30
SPEAKER_00: you know, kind of put defensive backs constantly in conflict, right?
42:33
SPEAKER_00: If this guy can decelerate and slam on the brakes as well as he can accelerate,
42:38
SPEAKER_00: you need safety help.
42:40
SPEAKER_00: Because if you're going to play short and he hits you with the stop and go,
42:44
SPEAKER_00: you're cooked, right?
42:46
SPEAKER_00: And if you're going to play on your heels...
42:49
SPEAKER_00: He's going to slam on the brake and come back to the ball.
42:52
SPEAKER_00: His hands have gotten better.
42:53
SPEAKER_00: His route running's gotten better.
42:54
SPEAKER_00: He's running more slants and crossers and posts.
42:58
SPEAKER_00: And he's just going to be a problem for this league.
43:01
SPEAKER_00: And so really it boils down to can Sam Laporta get back to the level he was at?
43:04
SPEAKER_00: Thought he was really starting to knock some rust off there.
43:07
SPEAKER_00: Last week he currently is banged up with a hip injury that Campbell said may
43:11
SPEAKER_00: or may not carry into the season.
43:13
SPEAKER_00: And then I think Tesla's had a really slow start to camp.
43:18
SPEAKER_00: Been a little surprising, but it's a good reminder.
43:21
SPEAKER_00: Development's not always linear, right?
43:23
SPEAKER_00: And these cornerbacks know him.
43:26
SPEAKER_00: They know his route tendencies.
43:27
SPEAKER_00: They know his route releases.
43:28
SPEAKER_00: They're contesting and challenging and poking away these fade balls and deep balls
43:33
SPEAKER_00: that are his bread and butter.
43:35
SPEAKER_00: And so it's forcing him to refine and be better at the releases,
43:39
SPEAKER_00: at the line of scrimmage, to beat that press coverage.
43:42
SPEAKER_00: That is going to be the key for him unlocking his game.
43:44
SPEAKER_00: I thought he had a really good week of practice after a really Tough preseason game
43:48
SPEAKER_00: where he had a ball go through his hands,
43:50
SPEAKER_00: off his face mask that was intercepted, dropped a fourth down pass.
43:53
SPEAKER_00: It was just kind of a culmination or an exclamation point on a rough start to camp.
43:57
SPEAKER_00: I think he's taken that to heart.
43:59
SPEAKER_00: I saw a really good week of practice from him.
44:01
SPEAKER_00: If those two guys are good as well, look out for this offense.
44:07
SPEAKER_01: All that being said,
44:08
SPEAKER_01: how encouraging is it then when you say, well,
44:10
SPEAKER_01: the defense has been better than the offense,
44:12
SPEAKER_01: given all of these weapons and Jared Goff central to it all.
44:16
SPEAKER_01: I just had a great sit down with Robert Mays, by the way.
44:18
SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you didn't think Jared Goff's brain worked at a different level
44:21
SPEAKER_01: and he's just seen a different game than most quarterbacks, check that out.
44:25
SPEAKER_01: I want to rapid fire a couple comments here before we sign off because Justin has
44:29
SPEAKER_01: a daughter who has a birthday today
44:31
SPEAKER_00: and he has given us all this time.
44:33
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that, Justin.
44:34
SPEAKER_00: Everybody does.
44:35
SPEAKER_01: Tim Reuter, he's our resident Lions fan.
44:41
SPEAKER_01: He asked a great question.
44:44
SPEAKER_01: I've been wondering the same thing
44:45
SPEAKER_01: because he did not look like himself last year off of the ACL.
44:48
SPEAKER_01: He wants to know how has a Lee McNeil look now,
44:51
SPEAKER_01: more than a year removed from blowing out his ACL.
44:54
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's a reason they handed him what, 96 mil?
44:58
SPEAKER_01: He's at the top of the market.
44:59
SPEAKER_01: Didn't play that way last year,
45:01
SPEAKER_01: but Adrian Peterson kind of broke everybody's brain with ACL recoveries.
45:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I will start by saying this.
45:08
SPEAKER_00: I think the Lions, defensive line, has the potential to be a strength.
45:11
SPEAKER_00: I know that's been kind of the fan focus and carried over to being
45:16
SPEAKER_00: a media focus every offseason.
45:18
SPEAKER_00: We all know Aiden Hutchinson's great.
45:19
SPEAKER_00: I think they've done a really, really nice job of reinforcing the edges around him.
45:24
SPEAKER_00: There's a nice pairing on the opposite side and the strong side with DJ Wanham
45:27
SPEAKER_00: and Tyler Lacey, of all people.
45:30
SPEAKER_00: Like a waiver claim before the season has been playing this strong end with kind
45:33
SPEAKER_00: of this Brute ferocity.
45:36
SPEAKER_00: I mean, just really,
45:36
SPEAKER_00: really physical player that's finding ways into the backfield even on run plays.
45:42
SPEAKER_00: And then,
45:42
SPEAKER_00: obviously,
45:42
SPEAKER_00: the rookie Derek Moore is kind of going to be that guy that spells Hutchinson,
45:47
SPEAKER_00: gives him a little bit more breathers that will allow him to be more efficient,
45:51
SPEAKER_00: be more energized late in games.
45:55
SPEAKER_00: Derek Moore's had some really nice practices.
45:56
SPEAKER_00: I know he missed a stretch there with a groin injury,
45:59
SPEAKER_00: but right before that, he was Wreaking havoc, causing disruption.
46:03
SPEAKER_00: Comes back yesterday, has two sacks.
46:04
SPEAKER_00: They're using them a lot in this third down NASCAR package where it's him,
46:08
SPEAKER_00: Wanham, Hutchinson, all out there once.
46:10
SPEAKER_00: But to go to the main point, Lee McNeil, I think the explosiveness is back.
46:16
SPEAKER_00: It was really interesting talking to him shortly before he returned last year
46:21
SPEAKER_00: and just the confidence he expressed of being ready to hit the ground running
46:25
SPEAKER_00: and His strength in the injured knee was back to the level it was pre-injury
46:31
SPEAKER_00: because they keep all these detailed records on how much each leg can do.
46:36
SPEAKER_00: His flexibility in that injured leg was actually a degree or two greater than it was pre-injury.
46:43
SPEAKER_00: And so he's like, well, if my strength and flexibility is there, I'm going to be fine.
46:48
SPEAKER_00: People dismiss when you miss all of the off-season program and you miss all
46:53
SPEAKER_00: of training camp,
46:54
SPEAKER_00: like that That time to kind of work on the fundamentals,
46:58
SPEAKER_00: to make sure you're staying low,
46:59
SPEAKER_00: your leverage,
47:00
SPEAKER_00: your hand placement,
47:01
SPEAKER_00: and you're just thrown into the mix,
47:02
SPEAKER_00: like missing all those hard padded practices we were talking about.
47:07
SPEAKER_00: It's just hard to get back into football shape, right?
47:10
SPEAKER_00: Sure, riding a bike is riding a bike,
47:12
SPEAKER_00: but can you hop on a bike and ride it for 40 miles when you haven't ridden a bike
47:16
SPEAKER_00: for a year and a half?
47:18
SPEAKER_00: It takes time to get all the cardio and all that back up,
47:22
SPEAKER_00: and so McNeil two years through,
47:25
SPEAKER_00: getting the benefit of going through the full offseason,
47:29
SPEAKER_00: I have very little doubt he won't be close to,
47:34
SPEAKER_00: if not better, than the player he was prior to that injury.
47:39
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
47:40
SPEAKER_01: I mean, if there's one potential pitfall for this team,
47:45
SPEAKER_01: I mean, is it cornerback then with Terran Arnold blowing up in their face?
47:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
47:49
SPEAKER_01: Is it just obvious?
47:51
SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, it's the entire secondary, right?
47:53
SPEAKER_00: Like, You go from Kirby Joseph and Brian Branch,
47:56
SPEAKER_00: however long they may be out, or whatever percentage they come back, right?
48:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
48:02
SPEAKER_00: I think they've done a really nice job backfilling the vets there, right?
48:05
SPEAKER_00: Like Chuck Clark,
48:06
SPEAKER_00: Avante Maddox,
48:07
SPEAKER_00: Christian Izzy,
48:08
SPEAKER_00: and Thomas Harper,
48:09
SPEAKER_00: I think, is a young ascending player that got some really good reps last year.
48:12
SPEAKER_00: But there was a stat I was using,
48:13
SPEAKER_00: and I don't have it in front of me,
48:15
SPEAKER_00: but Kirby Joseph,
48:16
SPEAKER_00: since entering the league,
48:17
SPEAKER_00: you know, most interceptions of any DB or any defensive player in the NFL.
48:22
SPEAKER_00: I think it's I don't know, something like 21 interceptions.
48:27
SPEAKER_00: All those four guys I mentioned over the course of their entire career have 15 interceptions.
48:33
SPEAKER_00: And it's like four times the snaps, right?
48:36
SPEAKER_00: So you can't replace the playmaking.
48:39
SPEAKER_00: You've done a nice job getting some fundamental guys that won't blow you up.
48:45
SPEAKER_00: But, you know,
48:46
SPEAKER_00: They've just lost the ability to force those turnovers,
48:49
SPEAKER_00: which are so massive to success in the NFL.
48:52
SPEAKER_00: Cornerbacks, I actually think the floor is pretty high with DJ Reed and Rocky Sin.
48:56
SPEAKER_00: I think Rocky Sin was a really great schematic personality,
49:02
SPEAKER_00: mentality fit here last year as a guy that they signed for vet men,
49:06
SPEAKER_00: no guarantees or men guarantees.
49:09
SPEAKER_00: Just fit like a glove.
49:10
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was really quick that he fit like a glove.
49:13
SPEAKER_00: He maintained playing time even after people were healthy.
49:16
SPEAKER_00: And they made a really smart decision to re-sign him for a modest price.
49:21
SPEAKER_00: I think it's three mil, three and a half mil.
49:24
SPEAKER_00: And so when you lose Arnold, it's a blow.
49:26
SPEAKER_00: That was going to be your number one future long-term guy.
49:30
SPEAKER_00: Like you feel really good about Yasin stepping in there and kind of being that stopgap.
49:35
SPEAKER_00: It's the depth behind them that's super concerning.
49:39
SPEAKER_00: It's a bunch of guys that haven't played more than 200 snaps.
49:43
SPEAKER_00: Ennis Rakestraw's got 46 snaps in two years.
49:46
SPEAKER_00: Nick Whiteside,
49:47
SPEAKER_00: who's had an undeniably phenomenal camp,
49:52
SPEAKER_00: built like a cornerback, big, physical, has shown consistent play.
49:57
SPEAKER_00: He's got 66 regular season snaps during his career.
50:00
SPEAKER_00: Khalil Dorsey, 200 snaps or fewer than 200 snaps.
50:03
SPEAKER_00: You just have this inexperience factor that when the injuries hit,
50:08
SPEAKER_00: which they almost always do in the secondary, you're worried about it.
50:12
SPEAKER_00: Also, the nickel job is just up in the air.
50:16
SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying they won't find the right solution,
50:18
SPEAKER_00: but they've tried Roger McCreary,
50:20
SPEAKER_00: they've tried Christian Izzy,
50:21
SPEAKER_00: and they're sprinkled in Rakestraw there,
50:24
SPEAKER_00: they sprinkled in Thomas Harper there,
50:25
SPEAKER_00: they're currently working rookie Keith Abney in there.
50:28
SPEAKER_00: They haven't figured out quite yet what they want to do there,
50:31
SPEAKER_00: and we know in this league,
50:34
SPEAKER_00: The nickel is a really,
50:35
SPEAKER_00: really critical piece with the advancement of slot receivers and
50:41
SPEAKER_00: the pass-catching titles.
50:42
SPEAKER_00: You better have a guy that can cover there, that can tackle in the run game.
50:46
SPEAKER_00: I think Abney's going to be a really good player, but he's a college player.
50:51
SPEAKER_00: He's handsy.
50:54
SPEAKER_00: Too many flags in practice.
50:55
SPEAKER_00: You've got to get that out of your system as a young player.
50:58
SPEAKER_01: I was just talking to somebody in Green Bay and personnel pretty high up.
51:03
SPEAKER_01: Made the same exact point.
51:04
SPEAKER_01: Nickel, he said the last five years has become such a crucial position in the NFL.
51:10
SPEAKER_01: You're asked to do so much versus the run versus the pass.
51:15
SPEAKER_01: Guard every type of player, right?
51:17
SPEAKER_01: From tight ends to slot receivers.
51:20
SPEAKER_01: That's why they love Javon Bullard out there in Green Bay.
51:22
SPEAKER_01: He's got to bring that killer instinct they've been lacking too.
51:25
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
51:26
SPEAKER_01: I mean, even despite those issues in the secondary, I love Detroit this season.
51:30
SPEAKER_01: I just feel like for everything we just talked about for an hour, you can't measure urgency.
51:37
SPEAKER_01: You could feel it out there even in minicamp when I was there briefly.
51:40
SPEAKER_01: It's a team that knows the time is now.
51:42
SPEAKER_01: We're not a cute store anymore.
51:44
SPEAKER_01: Those lovable lions biting the kneecaps.
51:47
SPEAKER_01: No, they're done.
51:50
SPEAKER_01: And I thought that Tate Rattledge...
51:52
SPEAKER_01: He put it perfectly.
51:52
SPEAKER_01: And again, thanks everybody for reading, for subscribing.
51:55
SPEAKER_01: Goalongtd.com is where you can get that story.
51:58
SPEAKER_01: We chatted at length.
51:59
SPEAKER_01: I asked him if people are talking about the Super Bowl.
52:02
SPEAKER_01: Here's his quote.
52:03
SPEAKER_01: What's known doesn't have to be talked about.
52:06
SPEAKER_01: Why are you playing if that's not your goal?
52:08
SPEAKER_01: It's definitely serious around here.
52:10
SPEAKER_01: Not that it gets brought up 24-7, but it's a very known thing around the building.
52:15
SPEAKER_01: That being the Super Bowl as the bar.
52:18
SPEAKER_01: Everybody that's in this live chat that subscribes to Justin Substack,
52:21
SPEAKER_01: they are still having nightmares from old Levi's Stadium, Brandon Ayuk.
52:28
SPEAKER_01: Boy, Brandon Ayuk, his life has changed since catching a ball off of Kendall Vildor's head.
52:36
SPEAKER_01: Think back to that game.
52:38
SPEAKER_00: The time is now.
52:39
SPEAKER_00: It's crazy.
52:40
SPEAKER_00: You go into that second half, you have the lead that you have.
52:44
SPEAKER_00: And all the things that never happen, happened in that game.
52:48
SPEAKER_00: Jameer Gibbs, fumble, never happens.
52:50
SPEAKER_00: Josh Reynolds, sure-handed, drops two passes, including a fourth down that costs you points.
52:56
SPEAKER_00: And then the Vildor thing, like, it's crazy how close they got.
53:02
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, obviously, injuries killed them in the 15-2 year.
53:07
SPEAKER_00: They fought through it, fought through it, fought through it.
53:08
SPEAKER_00: And I think Amik Robertson breaking his arm in that first drive
53:12
SPEAKER_00: against Washington was like, That was the last straw.
53:15
SPEAKER_00: They just couldn't absorb anymore.
53:17
SPEAKER_00: They were hanging by a string, and then defense falls apart that day.
53:24
SPEAKER_00: And so they hit a reset button this offseason.
53:27
SPEAKER_00: It's going to be really interesting to see how it goes,
53:28
SPEAKER_00: but kind of nice playing a fourth-place schedule.
53:31
SPEAKER_00: That doesn't hurt when you're trying to rediscover some urgency.
53:36
SPEAKER_01: Is there anything, I mean,
53:37
SPEAKER_01: Ben Johnson hasn't been shy,
53:39
SPEAKER_01: throwing the shade at Matt LaFleur and has kind of like cultivated out
53:43
SPEAKER_01: of thin air this rivalry.
53:44
SPEAKER_01: Matt LaFleur in the background, where did this come from?
53:46
SPEAKER_01: He's in their head one way or another, Ben Johnson and the Bears.
53:50
SPEAKER_01: And you heard it from Javon Bullard.
53:52
SPEAKER_01: He's like, don't let him talk shit on you like that.
53:54
SPEAKER_01: Fight back.
53:55
SPEAKER_01: What's the relationship really like?
53:57
SPEAKER_01: Ben Johnson and his former boss, his former team, the Lions beat him twice.
54:02
SPEAKER_01: Both parties know each other really, really well.
54:05
SPEAKER_01: Is there any lingering bad blood there to any extent that we can stoke the flames
54:11
SPEAKER_01: with in the NFC North?
54:13
SPEAKER_00: I don't think so.
54:14
SPEAKER_00: I think that was manufactured.
54:17
SPEAKER_00: Ben is hyper intense, a little bit more intense, I think, than Campbell.
54:23
SPEAKER_00: Like, they both want to win to an equal degree, but like, I don't know.
54:27
SPEAKER_00: Their demeanor and how they go about it is just a little bit different.
54:32
SPEAKER_00: You know Ben Johnson just absolutely hate it.
54:35
SPEAKER_00: Particularly the first one where Dan Campbell did not ease up on him.
54:39
SPEAKER_00: And that's the way I think they both want it.
54:42
SPEAKER_00: If the Bears have an opportunity to run it up on the Lions, they absolutely will.
54:47
SPEAKER_00: And they should.
54:50
SPEAKER_00: If you can't stop them, then get better.
54:54
SPEAKER_00: Don't whine about it.
54:54
SPEAKER_01: Get better.
54:57
SPEAKER_01: Agreed completely.
54:58
SPEAKER_01: It's going to be fun.
55:00
SPEAKER_01: Love this Lions roster.
55:02
SPEAKER_01: We'll see what happens when the real football begins in, what, three weeks?
55:07
SPEAKER_01: Holy hell.
55:07
SPEAKER_00: Oh, this division's going to be great.
55:09
SPEAKER_00: It's going to be great.
55:10
SPEAKER_00: It is.
55:11
SPEAKER_00: It is.
55:11
SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to get back out there and do some more Lions.
55:14
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for listening,
55:15
SPEAKER_01: watching,
55:16
SPEAKER_01: reading,
55:17
SPEAKER_01: and hanging out with us here on Substack Live with Justin Rogers,
55:20
SPEAKER_01: Detroit Football Network.
55:22
SPEAKER_01: Let's make a point to do this throughout the season.
55:25
SPEAKER_01: We'll pull each other away from our families.
55:27
SPEAKER_01: We got to make it happen.
55:28
SPEAKER_01: We got a lot of people in here that need some JR in their lives.
55:31
SPEAKER_00: So thanks so much, everyone.
55:32
SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Justin.