Latest / Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast / MBA Wire Taps 349—330 GRE, Paralegal. 319 GRE, Venture Capital. Tuck vs Duke vs Ross

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MBA Wire Taps 349—330 GRE, Paralegal. 319 GRE, Venture Capital. Tuck vs Duke vs Ross · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:15
  Speaker A: Welcome to the clear admit MBA admissions podcast. I'm Graham Richmond, and this is your wiretaps for Monday, April 22, 2024. Are you looking for an MBA program where you'll be more than just a number? Vanderbilt Business offers a personalized learning experience to help each student reach their unique career goals. Whether you're looking to switch careers entirely or accelerate the path you're on, the Vanderbilt MBA program will provide you with the individual support you need to propel your career forward. Vanderbilt is currently waiving their $200 application fee for MBA wiretaps listeners. To learn more about the Vanderbilt MBA program, it's a claim your application fee waiver, visit business vanderbilt.edu clearadmit. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, how are things going this week?
• 1:00
  Speaker B: Very good, thank you, Graham.
• 1:01
  Speaker A: So you know what? This. I was just looking. This is the 250th episode, or wiretaps episode. You know, sometimes we do admissions director, Q and A episodes, et cetera. But as far as wiretaps is concerned, this is our 250th episode.
• 1:15
  Speaker B: 250. Wow.
• 1:17
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:17
  Speaker B: That's impressive. We've not missed a week.
• 1:20
  Speaker A: I know. It's crazy. Yeah. So what's going on with you? Anything that we need to know about in the admissions world, or. I mean, we're getting to the quieter times, I guess this has been kind of the admit weekend season and stuff like that. But what's up with round three?
• 1:33
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, yeah, like, you're exactly right. April's a lot of admit weekends for around two folks and so on and so forth. So lots of decisions are being made now for that cohort in terms of which schools to attend. But we still. We've still got application deadlines for round three. But more interestingly, I think, is the deferred admissions deadlines. Oh, yeah, that's right. So, this week, Harvard has its two plus two deadline, and Wharton has its deferred admissions application deadline. So we're getting into that stage. And quite a few schools that have deferred admissions will just wrap the deadline into their round three deadline. But some do separate it out, and obviously, with Harvard, that doesn't have a round three anymore, it is an entirely separate deadline.
• 2:26
  Speaker A: Yeah. And actually. So, yeah, for those tuning in who are still at university and looking at those deferred enrollment options. Yeah, this is prime season, so hopefully they're getting their apps in. I do have some good news, Alex. We got a couple of reviews or a review and a letter that I wanted to share. It had been a little while since we. Since we got a review on Apple Podcasts or whatever. So the review says, best MBA resource out there, and it's a five star review. And the review goes on to say, graham and Alex are truly amazing. Insights and tips they share in their podcast are mind blowing. And they do that completely for free. I strongly doubt that you will get as many useful tips from MBA consultants out there. These two people in their podcast and webinars are the only reasons I had the necessary courage and knowledge to apply to top us MBA programs and get accepted with a scholarship worth $70,000. I can't thank them enough. And that comes from Luke, again, via apple podcasts. Very cool stuff. I'm glad that Luke got in with a big scholarship. I don't know about that. Are we doing this for free, Alex?
• 3:34
  Speaker B: Yeah, but this is interesting. I mean, I really appreciate that feedback, Luke. That's very good. But, okay. What candidates should realize, and I assume they do, is our philosophy is to provide the best sort of guidance that we possibly can and make it freely available. And why can we do that? Is because basically, our services now, site and so on and so forth, are effectively paid for by schools and not by candidates.
• 4:08
  Speaker A: Right, right.
• 4:09
  Speaker B: So if you're an admissions consulting firm and we work with those firms and we think they do great work, their business model is completely different. Their business model relies on income from candidates. So they can't be completely candid and forthright with all their free advice, because otherwise, they don't have a business model.
• 4:34
  Speaker A: Right, right. So that's true. And I will say it's not just schools that are keeping us afloat. It's also we have partners like Juno who do the kind of financial aid stuff or student loans, and we work with GMAC and some other entities out there. But, yeah, it's predominantly the schools. So, yeah, I was just. It's really nice to be able to provide this advice. I presume everyone tuning in, you know, likes to get the tips and so. But let's move on. Actually, I want to read this letter. I mean, it's really short, but we got a letter the other day via email that says, hello, alex and Graham. I was the Black Hawk pilot that you featured on episode 293 of the podcast. I was accepted to booth, Kellogg and Haas, and I was deferred to round two by HBS. So this person applied, I guess, in the first round. I ultimately got the interview and was accepted to HBS in round, too, and I will be matriculating there this summer. I just wanted to thank you both again, all the fellow vets and I that were applying to MBA programs this year listened to your podcast and followed livewire pretty religiously. I found it to be tremendously helpful resource, and it became a part of my daily routine to listen every Monday morning. Thanks again. So there's another really nice piece of feedback, and we're happy for that person who got into HBS. Very cool.
• 5:48
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, again, that's really great feedback. And like I say, we really appreciate all the great feedback. What I've noticed this season, Graham, and I don't know if you've noticed this or if this is an ongoing trend, is we did get a lot of military candidates. Very strong, I would say military candidates posting on a plywire.
• 6:13
  Speaker A: Yeah, I agree.
• 6:14
  Speaker B: Early in the season, which allowed us then to feature them early in the season on wiretap. And then that dropped off quite a lot, I think, in sort of as round two and so forth came around. And I think my point is that it seems like the military community that's applying to NBA really understands the importance of sort of real preparation, but also getting their ducks in a row early in the cycle.
• 6:45
  Speaker A: Are you shocked by that? I'm not shocked by that, no.
• 6:49
  Speaker B: Not at all. Not at all.
• 6:50
  Speaker A: No. I mean, it makes sense, right.
• 6:52
  Speaker B: But it also, I think, makes me think that they're getting great advice from. Is it services to school?
• 7:01
  Speaker A: Yeah, services school. Yeah, there's. That's a good.
• 7:04
  Speaker B: Some of these other organizations and maybe their own sort of mentorship programs to really sort of gear themselves up. So. Yeah. Anyway, long story short, brilliant feedback. Thank you very much.
• 7:15
  Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. We love to hear your letters and reviews. So keep them coming, a couple of events, and then we can get into all the fun stuff. We have three candidates to talk about this week, as always. But before we do that, on May 15, I'm going to be in Chicago with a couple other clear admit team members. We're running an MBA fair, and we have 20 leading MBA programs. Their admissions staff are coming to join us, and those programs include Stanford, Chicago, Kellogg, Columbia, Harvard, MIT, Tuck, NYU. I could keep going on and on. It's basically the top 20 programs in the states. Really excited.
• 7:48
  Speaker B: Except the program you went to.
• 7:51
  Speaker A: Yeah, I'm really. It's. Anyway, but, yeah. So we're going to have 20 leading business schools in a room. We're going to do panels. There'll be a fair kind of thing where you can go and talk to them. Their alumni are coming as well, so it should be a lot of fun. If you're anywhere near Chicago sign up bit Lee, CA Chicago Fair. All one word, all lowercase. And then also in May, on the 8th, 22nd and 29th, we're doing some virtual webinars. Those are on Wednesdays at noon Eastern. And for those, we're going to be talking about the application process. And we'll have the likes of Dartmouth and Duke and Berkeley and Wharton, Columbia. In CFS, there's a whole bunch of schools taking part over the course of those three weeks. Typically we do like four or five schools each time that we do one of those virtual events. So if you're further away from Chicago and can't come in person, definitely sign up for these virtual webinars that we're doing. Other than that, Alex, big news in our industry. Stanford has hired a new admissions director. As you may recall, Kirsten Moss left quite some time ago and they'd had Jamie Sheen Chine from the careers office kind of step in to run admissions for the last year or so. And they finally announced that Erin Nixon, who by the way, earned her undergrad at Stanford and has an MBA from Stanford, has joined. She's going to be starting in July in the role of assistant dean of admissions and financial aid. She's also a Stanford, as I said, Stanford MBA grad. I want to say class of 2010 or something. So very cool stuff. They finally have someone in place. It's someone who graduated from Stanford. Double dipped, actually, so sounds like a pretty good choice. We'll see, right?
• 9:29
  Speaker B: Sounds like someone that really knows Stanford and is passionate about Stanford. And again, getting an MBA from Stanford, it's kind of like the Harvard model is, you know, their admissions directors typically come from their own, their own family. I think you mentioned very briefly the person's name who stepped in for a year. They obviously did a tremendous job because they did not miss Stanford. Just keeps, keeps on rolling forward with a great admissions process. So kudos to their contribution over the year, and best of luck to Aaron.
• 10:05
  Speaker A: Yeah, agreed. Jamie did a fantastic job. I mean, she had been there running careers and stuff, so it makes sense. But yeah, we'll get Aaron hopefully on the show at some point. At a minimum, we'll do a Q and A. We've already been in touch with Stanford's kind of communications team, so looking forward to that. Over on the website, we also ran an article about tech hiring. As you may recall, we've been running these articles about careers. We did one on consulting placements and MBB, and then we did another one about finance and the difference between buy side and sell side. And which schools are placing where? Well, our latest is a piece from Elliot on our team about tech hiring, and in particular, tech hiring declines. So, Alex, I want to play a little trivia with you. Just. We'll run through this. And obviously, for those of you really interested, you got to read the article. It's got a ton of data in it. But, Alex, which three schools do you think send the highest percentage of their grads into tech?
• 11:01
  Speaker B: Did you say the articles about tech hiring? Or five?
• 11:04
  Speaker A: It's about hiring for now. Yeah. So which three schools are sending the highest percentage into tech, do you think?
• 11:12
  Speaker B: All right, so who would you throw into the mix? You'd throw hass into the mix? You'd throw Sloan into the mix and hass. Sloan, maybe. Anderson.
• 11:28
  Speaker A: No. So, it's interesting. So, Haas. You're right about Haas. But the number one school in terms of percentage that they're placing into tech is University of Washington Foster.
• 11:38
  Speaker B: Okay, yeah, that makes sense. Amazon and Microsoft are right there in their backyard.
• 11:43
  Speaker A: Then you have Haas. And then the third school is actually Tepper at Carnegie Mellon University. So those are the top three. Now, if I were to ask you raw numbers, which three schools do you think send the most students each year into tech? Any idea what that would look like?
• 11:58
  Speaker B: Yeah. Wharton would be up there, I would think.
• 12:00
  Speaker A: Yeah. So it's actually Harvard, Wharton, and Booth. Those are the three big guns. And that's just. Cause they're much larger student body, so by nature, they're gonna have more raw numbers. And then the last thing I wanted to ask you is, can you think of any schools that might be bucking the trend? And what I mean by that is that we actually saw a decline in tech placements pretty much across the board. So almost every school saw fewer tech placements this past year for the class of 23 than they did for the class of 22. But can you think of any schools that actually saw an increase in tech placements?
• 12:34
  Speaker B: I'm drawing a blank.
• 12:36
  Speaker A: Yeah, we talked about these, like, one by one over the course of the summer. Right.
• 12:40
  Speaker B: But it's. Yeah, I do remember us talking about this, though.
• 12:44
  Speaker A: Yeah. So here's the thing. So there are four schools that kind of bucked the trend, or, well, at least significantly. I'm talking about more than, like, 1%. And those schools are Kelly at Indiana, Tuck, Yale, and MIT. Sloan. They all saw slight increases in the number of. In the percentage of placements into tech. So just interesting to see a few schools kind of bucking that trend. We also ran some more real humans. So if you're interested in any of these jobs or schools, you should read these pieces. We had Ryan, who went to Emory and is now at McKinsey working as an associate. And one of the things that Ryan said when it came to, we asked him, like, what would you do again as part of your job search? Ryan said, genuinely leverage the power of being a student. There's so many people out there that would love to share their experience with you. And reaching out to people, not solely because they work at XYZ company and can provide you with a recommendation, but because you're truly interested in a particular subject matter can lead to amazing conversations and outcomes. So, yeah, so, you know, it is a. You are in a unique position, I think, when you're a student, in that you can reach out to someone on LinkedIn and say, hey, I'm a current student. I just want to talk about your job. It's like, no pressure. And as Ryan points out, people love sharing their kind of experience, and people.
• 14:00
  Speaker B: Love talking about themselves.
• 14:02
  Speaker A: Right? Yeah.
• 14:04
  Speaker B: Right. So, on the other hand, if someone does reach out to me and say, look, Alex, are really interested in the type of work you're doing. Sure. I give him time because I, you know, it's human nature. Right? We kind of like to talk about ourselves.
• 14:16
  Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. We also caught up with Tyler, who graduated from Ese in Spain.
• 14:21
  Speaker B: I will say nobody has ever done that to me.
• 14:24
  Speaker A: Well, don't take it personally.
• 14:26
  Speaker B: No.
• 14:28
  Speaker A: We also caught up with Tyler from Ese, graduated in 22, and he works at BCG as a consultant. Was originally from Michigan, but went to school in Spain. You would love this guy's background, was a chemical engineer, and then pivoted to become an english teacher, I think, in China.
• 14:44
  Speaker B: Wow.
• 14:45
  Speaker A: And then went to Esa to get an MBA. So all over the map. And it's funny, though, we asked what's one thing you would change or do differently as part of the job search? And Tyler says it would have helped to have a more clear goal for my post MBA career earlier. I think it's completely fine not to. But if you do have this clarity, then everything you possibly can do, you kind of get into a position to win. Right? You join the clubs, network, target internships that will help you do pro bono projects during the NBA. Anything that you can to align with your goal. So, you know, interesting advice from Tyler. Right? I mean, that's just. We talk about that a lot.
• 15:20
  Speaker B: That's why goal focus is really important in the admissions process. Even with schools that claim that they're not interested, but it does. It's really helped. And what is Tyler doing now at BCG? Is he. But what part of the world.
• 15:36
  Speaker A: Oh, that's a good question. You know what? I don't, I don't know. I'd have to pull up the article. I can't remember where, where he landed. That's a really good question.
• 15:42
  Speaker B: Yeah. So I'm curious if they use that to stay in Europe or they used it and were able to come back to the states, but, yeah. Very interesting.
• 15:51
  Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I think, if memory serves. Yeah, I was, I was actually wondering about that at the beginning, and I don't know if they, if he said, but, yeah, I don't think it says.
• 16:02
  Speaker B: Here where all that prep work you did for the show, Greg, you short circuited it a little bit.
• 16:07
  Speaker A: Yeah, I know. Well, actually, I'm just looking at the article now, and I don't think we actually said where, which office he's at. In any event, we also, we caught up with Cynthia, who graduated from foster class of 23 and works at Microsoft. She's an HR program manager and she's really fascinating. Had a background originally from Mexico City, went to a top business school in Mexico and worked in HR in the States for a while and now is continuing doing HR at Microsoft. She has some good advice just about helping your classmates and paying it forward. She just talked about how people who interviewed for her role, who were kind of second years, I guess, when she was a first year interviewing for her Microsoft internship, they actually sat down with her and helped her to get ready. And then she did the same thing when she was a second year. And she said, it's just such an amazing experience to help and be part of a community where everyone's, like, supporting each other. And she said, it's kind of, it's sort of uncommon in the real world, you know, but when you're in school, it's, it's really nice. So that was cool.
• 17:08
  Speaker B: But not uncommon in schools, right? Didn't you do that at war? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
• 17:12
  Speaker A: No, it's very team oriented and stuff, so. And then finally we caught up with Likita, who is a booth grad, class of 23, and she's a Goldman, she's working as an investment banking associate originally it seems like, from India, but had also worked in Europe and previously was an investment banking analyst for a french investment bank. And so we asked her, what's one piece of advice you wish you'd been given during your MBA? And she said, the advice I wish I'd been given is that it is all right to not be productive all the time. There's so much going on during the MBA that it's easy to feel like there's always something more you should be doing, but you don't get this much free time to travel or just switch off later in your career. So it is more than all right to not do very much. And I think that's actually interesting because we often have all these advice tidbits that are like, take advantage of everything, do everything. And she's saying, you know what? Like, it's okay to take a bit of a break. I mean, you're in school for two years, et cetera. So.
• 18:11
  Speaker B: Yeah. Is trying to overcome this fomo.
• 18:14
  Speaker A: Exactly.
• 18:16
  Speaker B: Issue. Right. Fear of missing out. But I can get that with mbas because. Because it's not just you've got to be really, really busy all the time, but some of the fantastic things that are available for you to do. I mean, you just want to do it.
• 18:30
  Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
• 18:31
  Speaker B: So being able to unplug a little bit is probably quite helpful.
• 18:34
  Speaker A: Yeah, totally. So, Alex, unless you have anything, I think we can dive into the candidates. Obviously, if people want to reach out to us, just write to infocleeredmit.com and use the subject line wiretaps. But anything from you, Alex, before we talk about our candidates, let's kick on. All right, so this is wiretaps candidate number one. Our first candidate this week has seven schools on the target list. Those schools are Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Kellogg, Nyu, Stern, Chicago, Booth, and Yale. They're going to be starting business school in the fall of 25. And this person's worked as an m and a paralegal. They have actually about eight years of work experience. They are looking to pivot and get into consulting. And they've got Bain, Booz Allen, BCG, Deloitte, McKinsey on the target list. Canada has a 330 on the GRE, very good score there, and a GPA of 3.5, located in Phoenix and wants to land in New York after business school. They mentioned that they, you know, their work includes SEC compliance, capital raising, managing the diligence phase of acquisitions, and frequent contact with executive leadership to quantify status updates. They need an MBA, they say, so that I can pivot into m and a consulting. One day I either hope to work as an executive at a company or perhaps start my own m and a consulting firm. And they have a bunch of extracurriculars that they point out. They talk about how they've coordinated five different community nonprofits that focus on affordable housing and development in blighted communities. They're also on a community advisory council for a local hospital, so lots going on extracurricularly. Alex, I know you had some conversation with this candidate via the kind of comments feature on the wires there. So tell me a little bit more about what you think and, yeah, just this person's, you know, chances and that sort of stuff.
• 20:26
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think a couple of quick things. You know, they've eight years of experience, so that might be a little bit longer than we would typically see from someone with this type of career, like a paralegal. They've decided not to pursue law school. Now they want to get into the business side of stuff, which makes perfect sense. It seems to have taken them a little bit longer to come to that decision, so they perhaps got to overcome that a little bit. I do actually really like their work experience, and I do really like their extracurricular contributions and experience. I think that really is super strong. Their numbers are obviously very, very solid. 330 Gre, 35 GPa. They are african american, and obviously with the Supreme Court decision, it's not like a checkbox type thing, nor should it ever have been. But if that shaped their lived experience and, you know, perhaps shaped their sort of extracurricular contributions and presented them some challenges or whatever it might have been, then it's absolutely fair game. So, quite frankly, Graham, I think if they can overcome this notion of the slightly longer experience, maybe tighten up their long term goal a little bit, maybe there's something that they've done to date that really resonates with them to help shape that longer term goal. I could see this being an m seven candidate. And, yeah, they've got Columbia, Booth, and Kellogg on their list, which are all part of the m seven. They've got a couple of top 16 on their list, too. But I think they should take a swing at Harvard, Stamford, Wharton type, maybe one or two of those programs, too, if they're able to target the first rounds. I think there's a lot to like here, Graham. I love their extracurricular stuff, quite frankly.
• 22:33
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think you're right. I mean, I think that despite the fact that it's taken them a little while to find their way to the NBA path, they have decent numbers. 330 GRE, 3.5 GPA. And I would say because they want to be in New York, I think Harvard and Wharton might be ones that come up to go along with the Columbia's and stern, because if they really want to be in New York, those are schools that all could easily place them. Yale is another one with strengths in that market, obviously. So, yeah, I feel like they could. They should aim high. I do want to mention, I mean, I don't think I mentioned it before. This person is a minority candidate. They're underrepresented minority. They mentioned they're an african american male. And I know schools aren't taking that into account, at least not implicitly. But I think it is an asset in this candidates kind of profile. I mean, it just means they're going to be underrepresented and so they're not competing with, let's say, you know, indian engineers or something. So they really will stand out in the pool and, yeah, I think they should aim high as a result.
• 23:30
  Speaker B: No, yeah. Especially in the first round. Right. And if they don't hit in that first round, they've got plenty of time in the second round because, like you say, they're not an over represented candidate. So. So round two won't harm them. But, yeah, take a real shot in round one. Yeah.
• 23:45
  Speaker A: In fact, what I would do is apply to, like, you know, a handful of dream, you know, go big in round one, maybe the New York schools and a couple of m seven, like Wharton or Harvard or whatever, and then see where the chips fall. And they could always apply in round two to some of these other programs on their list, too, in any event. Yeah. So I want to thank them for sharing their profile. Really interesting stuff. And wish them the best of luck. Let's move on, though, and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number two candidate also would like to start business school in the fall of 25. They've got five schools on the list, and those schools are Cambridge IMD, the Indian School of Business, London Business School, and Oxford. So very much a european plus India focus. This person's been working in venture capital and post MBA. They have a lot of different possibilities. They talk about pharma, consumer goods, manufacturing. I mean, so they have. And they list a bunch of companies. You know, they mentioned AstraZeneca, J and J Nestle Unilever. So it's kind of a mix of pharma and CPG type stuff. Their Gre is a 319, their GPA is a six out of ten. I believe that was probably earned in India, as this candidate is currently located in India, and that's sort of the GPA system there. They have eight years of work experience, just like our first candidate today. And they want to land in the UK or Europe after business school. And they mentioned that, you know, they they wanted. The direct quote is they say the idea is to do an MBA, to take a break and get access to international opportunities in finance or operating roles. They mentioned they're 31. What's funny, they say 31 to 33. I guess that they'll be 31 when they start the program and 33 when they finish or something. Again, they mentioned they're indian. Five years of investing experience at a growth fund in BC. They, you know, they're, they're a board member at a couple of unicorn companies. They actually mentioned their salary here as well. So they give us a lot of data, but they asked us some questions and they said what would be a better geography to do an MBA given where the winds are blowing? So like UK, London or Singapore? And then they're also curious about what we think one year versus two, given, you know, I guess, their age and what they're trying to accomplish, but. So what do you make of this candidacy, Alex?
• 26:11
  Speaker B: I think they've got to retake the GRE. I'm a very. I'm a little bit concerned about this candidate because they've taken the GRE. It's a 319 and they said I've taken the GRE, so I've got it out of the way. I'm like, I don't think so. When you're targeting this level of MBA program and your test score is below the median of the programs you're targeting and you've got plenty of time to make adjustments, I really think they need to do that. I don't think their GPA is outstanding, obviously. I know a little bit less about that. It'd be interesting to know their class rank and so forth, but their GRE is certainly not outstanding. And I just worry that their sort of approach to the admissions process is going to trip them up unless they sort of readjust a little bit. So. Absolutely plan. I mean, like our previous candidate had a 330 on the GRE, right? So I'm not saying everybody has to have that score. That's an outstanding score, but 319 is going to be. Is going to be a handicap for them. And you know, this idea that getting. Getting the MBA to take a break. Yeah, sure, lots of investment bankers would say the same thing, or consultants that have ridiculous schedules, but they don't actually say that in admissions process. They might think the same thing, right? There's no doubt. But yet remove that rhetoric from the admissions process. I assume they won't use that in their application essays, but I just wanted to be cautious of that. They need to apply in round one I do think that probably their professional experience is very good. Right. So I'm not dismissing that at all. So kudos to them for building up a really strong professional profile in venture capital in India. But I don't think they should just sit on that and say, look, I've got this outstanding experience, so they're just going to give me a free pass into business school. These numbers will matter and their approach will matter. So retake the GRE and so forth. And, you know, if they can come back with a really strong gre, that'd be very good. They've got to, again, apply in the first round because they will be part of an over represented group, quite likely, even though again, they have this really good experience. So to maximize their chances, round one will be best. And then this notion of one year versus two year, it really depends. If they're looking to get some different sort of experience, sort of on the ground work experience in companies before coming back to a VC type investing role, then I think a two year program is probably a better fit because they got to look for that potential for internships and various other things to get that sort of different set of experience. And, yeah, Europe versus the US versus Singapore, it really, they've got to think long and hard about where they want to be in the long run for their career and then figure out, does Singapore NBA serve them better there? Or is it a US NBA or a European NBA?
• 29:51
  Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, there's a lot going on here in terms of some red flags around self assuredness with a low test score. I think the other thing is this idea of taking the NBA is a break. I get it, but it's something you wouldn't really voice, as you said, the thing that I would say is that they probably need to adjust this list of target schools somewhat. You know, I'm thinking of schools like, I don't know, ESMT or imperial that might get them into Europe and may, you know, if they can't get the test scores up or, you know, sort of if they just want to have better odds, they might cast a slightly wider net than what they're currently doing. I mean, it does sound like they really want to get out of India and work somewhere else and that that's part of the driver here. And so any number of programs could provide them with that sort of platform. But, yeah, I do think in an ideal world, they would retake the test and it's just, yeah, as you said, if they're looking to make a pivot, particularly into a new market. Maybe a new role. Two years might be better than one. Of course, then you're kind of limited because Europe, most of the programs are going to be two. They could add HEc to their list. That's a little bit longer than a year program. Obviously, LBS is a two year program and so is ESA, which we talked about earlier on the show. Anyway, they have some work to do is the short answer here. But hopefully they'll kind of pull things together and as you say, apply early because they're overrepresented. And we do need to know more. I need to know more about their, as you say, class rank and the caliber of institution they attended for undergrad. So that because a six out of ten, if they were highly ranked at one of the IITs. Okay, maybe that's doable. Right. But if it's not, then it's harder.
• 31:30
  Speaker B: Yeah, but not with the three nights.
• 31:32
  Speaker A: They need to do better on the test. Absolutely. So in any event, yeah, it's an interesting case. And as far as like global kind of hiring trends, I don't. I mean, I, you know, Europe, UK, Singapore. I think. I wouldn't base it on where I think the market's going. I would base it more on where they want to be. You know, where would they be happy to live. So. Because it's just impossible to predict that stuff. So in any event, I want to thank them for their post. And let's move on though, and talk about wire taps. Candidate number three. So our final candidate comes from a decision wire entry, as we've been doing here for several weeks now. So this person applied to Tuck, Duke, Michigan, Kellogg, UNc, Wharton, Vanderbilt and Yale. And they ended up getting into Tuck, Duke, Michigan, UNC and Vanderbilt. They don't know where they want to go, though, and they're going to start in the fall. So they got to figure this out out. Their gre was a 321 and they mentioned that tuck has been my top choice. Given the great community there, though, I am hoping to move there with my partner and she's not so thrilled on the idea of Hanover. I like Duke's strength in healthcare and community as well. Ross is also a front runner with a big network, lots of healthcare opportunities and cool location. So I'm deciding between these three. So, Alex, what do you make of this? This is, you know, they've kind of narrowed it down. It's either tuck, Duke or Ross. They want to work in healthcare. And you had some additional conversation with them in which they revealed that they would love to land in Boston, Denver, or maybe the west coast. And they've also already talked with the partner clubs, it sounds like, at these schools. And again, their partner's not so keen on moving to Hanover. But what do you, what do you make of this?
• 33:14
  Speaker B: I think if your partner's not keen on moving to Hanover, you can't go to top. That's, to me, that's kind of a big deal. Right. If there's some hesitancy in that regard, and I'm sure there are opportunities for partners in Hanover, and I think they have a strong partners club. They have a really engaged alumni network and so on and so forth. But at the end of the day, they will have done that research. And if their partner is not happy, then I think it's ultimately then boils down to Ross and Duke. I think all three programs, and, in fact, all five programs that they got admitted to, Keenan Flagler and Owen, are really good for healthcare.
• 33:56
  Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
• 33:57
  Speaker B: So they got into some great programs. Duke in the research triangle along with Keenan Flagler, obviously, Ross is really innovating their healthcare program. So they have. They're blessed for choice. But, yeah, I guess, again, one of the reasons why I chose this is it's not just simple and straightforward. You might think, all right, talk slightly trumps Fuqua and Ross, right? Fuqua and Ross are very much at par. Talk slightly trumps them. If all else is equal. But for each individual candidate, not all else is equal. Many candidates are making decisions that affect other people, too. Their family, their partners, and so on and so forth. So I completely get this. And I think it's a toss up between Fuqua and Ross. And. Yeah, that's basically where I would sit on this.
• 35:00
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's really hard. I mean, they did say that. They say, I am hoping to move there with my partner. So, you know, I guess there is the possibility that they won't move with their partner, in which case they just could go to talk. But, yeah, it is a tough decision. I actually was making better to stay together. I'm just joking. My. Yeah, I guess I was making notes to myself, like, oh, they want to be in Boston. Well, gosh, you know, Tuck is great, you know, for that. And then they were like, I would like to work in healthcare. I'm like, ooh, you know, Duke's pretty good at that, and Ross, too. And even, I mean, Tuck has actually a medical school on campus, right? So there's a lot of. Of benefits. And then they're like, oh, I want to work on the west coast. And I was like, oh Michigan. Ross could be good for that because they have pretty good placement stats when it comes to the west coast so it is a little, it's tough. I suggest they hopefully they've gone to some of these welcome events, continue to do their due diligence and can land on a decision. I should mention that there's no money involved. They didn't get any scholarship dollars for any of these programs so I want to point that out because that obviously could have swung things one way or another but it's not in this case.
• 36:02
  Speaker B: But either of these three programs will provide them great access to opportunity.
• 36:08
  Speaker A: Yeah, they'll be fine. Yeah totally. So with that Alex, I want to thank you for picking out our candidates as always and we'll meet again and record another episode next week. Apparently we have some people listening so we got to get another one out next week.
• 36:22
  Speaker B: Brilliant. Brilliant. Stay safe everyone. Take care.