Latest / Rusty's Garage / Will Power (Part 1)

Transcript

Will Power (Part 1) · Rusty's Garage

• 0:02
  A listener production.
• 0:14
  I'm automotive commentator and journalist Greg Rust, and this is Rusty's Garage.
• 0:28
  For this episode, I'm in Sydney at Listener HQ, right beside some studios that I worked in for many years in radio.
• 0:34
  My guest is on the other side of the pond in America, Charlotte, North Carolina, to be exact.
• 0:41
  It's a bit of a motorsport hub there and also the hood now for Will Power, who created history in 2018.
• 0:48
  by becoming the first Aussie to win the greatest spectacle in racing, the Indianapolis 500, a race that was first staged over 100 years ago.
• 0:58
  Quite a feat.
• 0:59
  Through incredible determination and perseverance, Power has rightly claimed a spot among some legendary IndyCar stars.
• 1:07
  After going nail-bitingly close to winning the title on several occasions, he broke through in 2014.
• 1:12
  Wow.
• 1:14
  Power is the man when it comes to stats around road and street course races, but the numbers underscore deeper, broader talent than that.
• 1:23
  Approaching 40 career wins, 70 podiums and more than 50 pole positions.
• 1:28
  You get a sense in our chat that in his early days, Will really had to prove himself and often to no one but himself.
• 1:36
  Wow.
• 1:37
  Now he drives for automotive and racing icon Roger Penske and is cemented in the record books, which has enabled him to be more comfortable in his world.
• 1:45
  He's showing more humour on socials, loves being a dad and in fact enjoys playing drums when he's away from the cockpit.
• 1:53
  This is one of the most gripping chats that I've had since we launched Rusty's Garage.
• 1:58
  I'm grateful that Will feels comfortable enough to open up on various topics, including the day that likeable racer Dan Weldon died.
• 2:07
  Plus, the big decision to turn left, from following the path to F1 to trying his luck in the US.
• 2:14
  Now, that said, you will never take that proud Aussie, that proud Queenslander from Toowoomba out of him.
• 2:20
  But I wondered...
• 2:22
  if, when it's all said and done, he'd ever base himself back down under.
• 2:26
  No, I think America will be home for me for the rest of my life because I married an American girl.
• 2:33
  I have a son now.
• 2:35
  And, yeah, I live in North Carolina, live on Lake Norman.
• 2:41
  It's where a lot of...
• 2:44
  Pretty much all the NASCAR teams are based here.
• 2:47
  My team, Team Penske, is based here.
• 2:49
  They have the IndyCar team and the NASCAR team and the sports, well, what was the sports car team, under the same roof.
• 2:58
  So, yeah, I got very, very used to living away from home.
• 3:03
  Like it really does.
• 3:06
  If I go home to Australia, I actually get homesick kind of
• 3:11
  I feel like I'm coming back home to here because I've been away for so long.
• 3:15
  I mean, I left in 2000 and, what did I leave?
• 3:20
  End of 2002.
• 3:21
  I went to England for three years before I came to America and I've been here since.
• 3:29
  Yeah, I haven't lived in Australia for, yeah, I've been getting close to 20 years, like 18 years.
• 3:36
  Crazy.
• 3:36
  Do you pinch yourself, mate, because you've just talked about living in what is an American hub of racing.
• 3:42
  I've been there.
• 3:43
  It's an amazing part of the world.
• 3:46
  You're a long way from Toowoomba and much has changed in your life.
• 3:49
  Pretty cool to think that you've made it.
• 3:51
  When you look back, it does blow your mind when you think about some of the thoughts that you had.
• 3:59
  When I was just working as a canvas goods manufacturer and I'd be
• 4:04
  sitting out and I actually used to smoke having a cigarette and thinking about where I would be when I was age 30 or age 35.
• 4:13
  And I never, ever accepted that I would be just working.
• 4:18
  I always had in my mind that I would be doing something else I really enjoy, whether, you know,
• 4:28
  I used to skateboard when I was younger, whether I was going to be a pro skater.
• 4:32
  Racing was always the thing that I said when I was a kid that I wanted to be as a race car driver.
• 4:37
  But yeah, I mean, looking back at when you look at everything you've done and how impossible you really felt it was,
• 4:48
  Yeah, it's surreal.
• 4:51
  It really is like a dream come true, honestly.
• 4:55
  That's how you feel.
• 5:00
  It's something you would have dreamed of as a kid to be getting paid to drive Indy cars, living in America and winning races.
• 5:11
  It is surreal, but you know the journey, you know the work that's gone into it.
• 5:15
  So it's not surprising in that way.
• 5:19
  The thing that becomes to me really evident is that hard work and persistence and study and homework really pay off.
• 5:29
  No one's different to anyone else in that respect.
• 5:31
  They all have something that they can excel at if you just put the work in and are determined.
• 5:39
  And you have done that, mate.
• 5:40
  I often use the word tenacious and you are the epitome of that in my mind.
• 5:46
  I'm glad that you brought up your youth.
• 5:49
  You grew up in Toowoomba, Darling Downs region of Queensland west of Brisbane.
• 5:53
  There was a great photo you've posted in recent days on Instagram of you as a little tacker.
• 6:00
  Did the Power Boys run amok and make life hard for your mum when you were little?
• 6:04
  And was it clearly dad that got you hooked on racing?
• 6:07
  It was clearly dad that got us all hooked on racing, no question.
• 6:12
  He had a Formula 2 car at the first house we lived in and he'd be working on that thing until 11 at night.
• 6:19
  Then they'd probably get whatever they were doing together, whether it was the engine or whatever.
• 6:22
  whatever change or gear ratios, and they'd start it up.
• 6:26
  And my mother had come down screaming at him to turn it off.
• 6:29
  The kids are asleep.
• 6:30
  We'd all be excited because he started the car up.
• 6:36
  What was that thing powered by?
• 6:37
  What was it powered by?
• 6:38
  It was a Judd Golf two-liter.
• 6:41
  Mega.
• 6:42
  Yeah, it would have had twin Webbers on as Carbies.
• 6:46
  Yeah.
• 6:47
  Yeah, it was a real racy sounding engine.
• 6:49
  Like it would vibrate the floor.
• 6:51
  I remember that distinctly because the garage is right under our bedroom.
• 6:56
  And it was just so exciting for us to have a race car in the garage and dad working on it and being kind of a part of it, being a bit of a pest, honestly.
• 7:09
  My dad would belt us if anything went missing because he'd know that the bloody, as he calls, the bloody kids got it.
• 7:17
  So yeah, I mean, I was, me and my oldest, the next oldest to me, Nick, was so, we were so into racing, what we called it, playing racing.
• 7:29
  So that's what we did as kids.
• 7:31
  And yes, we ran amok for sure, like all four of us with, you know, my poor old mother having to deal with it while dad was off racing or, you know, he's running a business at the same time too.
• 7:43
  Yeah.
• 7:44
  Yeah, she deserves a medal, man.
• 7:47
  She really does.
• 7:48
  We all really try to look after her well these days because we understand now that we have kids, just one kid, how much work that is.
• 7:58
  Yeah, you realize that real quick and you think immediately of your mother who had four kids all two years apart.
• 8:04
  It's just nuts.
• 8:05
  Amazing.
• 8:06
  First car for you.
• 8:07
  I want to latch on to the Datsun 1200 and the early part of your racing.
• 8:13
  What colour, what power plant, what sort of events, and were you hands-on with it?
• 8:18
  Yes, I was hands-on with it.
• 8:22
  I remember having to change the gearbox and would prep it for the race.
• 8:27
  My dad made us do everything.
• 8:30
  When we were racing go-karts as a kid, we did everything, basically.
• 8:35
  Because he was racing too.
• 8:37
  My dad's crazy.
• 8:38
  He would have literally three kids racing, and we were all looking after a cousin.
• 8:43
  Then he'd be racing like two classes in go-karting.
• 8:47
  And that's the way it was.
• 8:49
  So we learned how to do all that stuff.
• 8:53
  So it just was normal for us.
• 8:55
  And yes, the dirt track car was a Datsun 1200.
• 9:01
  which the engine, it had to be stock.
• 9:03
  You couldn't change anything on it, so it was a 1200.
• 9:06
  Obviously, you'd cut the muffler off and the pipe, you know, do as much as you can to it.
• 9:13
  And...
• 9:15
  Yeah, it was kind of a cool series.
• 9:18
  It was called this – it was a dirt track series.
• 9:21
  It was short circuit racing is what they called it.
• 9:24
  It was in Queensland.
• 9:26
  It was probably about five or six tracks.
• 9:29
  It was Mill Maron, Warwick,
• 9:32
  There's one in Toowoomba called Echo Valley.
• 9:34
  Lee Diffie used to actually commentate there for the motocross, the motocross track.
• 9:40
  And then there's the one at Ipswich, which you probably saw when you'd go to Queensland Raceway.
• 9:46
  You probably saw that...
• 9:48
  uh, that on the left, you come into the complex, you've gone past the go-kart track or the drag strip and the go-kart track.
• 9:53
  The next thing was that dirt track.
• 9:55
  And that was what, uh, what I raced in.
• 9:57
  So it was dirt track road courses.
• 10:01
  Um, and it was great, really a lot of fun.
• 10:04
  Um, you know, karting was, was really good for your, you know, being very neat and tidy and, um, lines and understanding racing, basically, um, all the things you learn in karting, you know, uh,
• 10:21
  more about where the grip is and what curves you may use but the dirt track was car control and then the water truck would come out during a 100 lap race and it'd go from reasonably grippy with it actually gets so packed down it actually lay rubber which I think any of the guys who race sprint cars would know all about that but and then the water truck would come and go to literally ice so many different conditions and
• 10:49
  um any different sorts of cars you'd race against too like people rocked up with all sorts of stuff it was pretty good real grassroots racing and ironically mate although it's a world apart from what you now do i would imagine some of the learnings from that um were pivotal in kind of setting you up weren't they
• 11:10
  Yeah, I mean, it's all a learning curve.
• 11:15
  You'll take a little bit from everything that you've done over your career and you'll keep honing it and honing it.
• 11:24
  And yeah, I mean, that would certainly set you up well for the driving in the wet and just in general car control of something big.
• 11:32
  Go-karts are so nimble and tight.
• 11:35
  And suddenly when you go into cars, you've got much more weight to deal with.
• 11:40
  So...
• 11:42
  I think you understand inertia much better when you've raced dirt track and a heavy sedan because it matters.
• 11:50
  We're in the go-kart.
• 11:51
  The inertia is not a big deal.
• 11:52
  The braking zones aren't very long and it's a very nimble little thing, but it's unbelievably competitive and great racing, go-kart.
• 12:02
  I still race go-karts and enjoy it.
• 12:07
  immensely.
• 12:08
  I love it.
• 12:08
  It's because it's such pure racing.
• 12:11
  It's so no aerodynamics.
• 12:14
  It's just no strategy.
• 12:17
  It's simply great race craft and as hard as you can go to try to win the race.
• 12:23
  We'll talk more about WPK or willpower karts a little bit later on because I know that's something you've ventured into in relatively recent time and that's exciting.
• 12:31
  But to expand
• 12:37
  underdog back then weren't you it was tough a small band of people your dad and you were talking about working hands-on and that the one of the early cars that you had was significantly older than some of the the others in the field that you're up against wasn't it um the year that i competed against will davis and i drove that stealth which was uh you know the conversion from a 94 or 95 van diemen that brett lupton did in um over in western australia and
• 13:05
  And I actually didn't think it was a worse car than what Will, Will Davison is who I battled for that year.
• 13:12
  Until I drove a 2002 or 2003 Van Diemen and then I realized like, wow, these things were a really nice car.
• 13:22
  Yeah, I mean, it wasn't the latest equipment.
• 13:26
  I don't think I was at a massive disadvantage or anything.
• 13:29
  I think it was a great competitive season and we'll end up winning that championship.
• 13:34
  But I raced former forward on and off for a while before I did a full season in the National Series before I was, let's say, really serious about it.
• 13:49
  because it just was never really... We didn't have a path set out.
• 13:58
  My dad and I, I would say when I say we, it was my father and I really, he helped me from the very beginning, got to a point where he wasn't doing anything.
• 14:08
  I would just prep the car, tow the car, do everything myself.
• 14:10
  He didn't even come to the races at one point.
• 14:13
  But yeah, I never...
• 14:17
  That was something I really noticed with Will Davison when I finally had taken it very seriously, which was in 2001 I fought Will Davison.
• 14:27
  But the first year I took it real serious was in 2000.
• 14:31
  I raced for Mike Boland in his team in the Spectrum.
• 14:35
  And that was my first taste of being very professional and thinking that I want to make this something, I want to make it to V8 Supercar or Formula One, make it a career.
• 14:48
  And then, yeah, so then the next year, I thought Will Davison and his family had done it so well.
• 14:57
  Like it looked like he had a whole career just planned out and it seemed as though they had the funding and everything.
• 15:03
  And I felt like we were a bit of a mess.
• 15:06
  In that respect, we just simply didn't.
• 15:09
  have it laid out in that way.
• 15:10
  It was just like, let's just try and make the next race.
• 15:13
  Let's just try and make this season, let alone thinking about, you know, trying to go to Europe and race, you know, British Formula 3 or Formula Renault or any of that.
• 15:22
  That wasn't even – that didn't even seem like a possibility to me at that stage.
• 15:28
  So what changed in that, you know, in that thinking for you then?
• 15:31
  Really what changed was in 2000, I started taking seriously and I was so, so determined at that point to try and make it.
• 15:38
  As much as I said we're messy in like 2001, I really did finish that season with no ride or anywhere to go, but I met Graham Watson.
• 15:48
  Graham Watson called me, gave me a test because we didn't really have the money to do Formula Holden or anything like that, which was really a dream for me to try to do that.
• 16:00
  And Graham gave me a test and he did it for free at Wakefield Park.
• 16:05
  Oh, man, the car was so awesome to drive.
• 16:07
  Yeah.
• 16:08
  Just such a blast.
• 16:09
  Like after doing Formula Ford, getting to drive a Formula Holden with over 300 horsepower and downforce and unbelievable brakes.
• 16:20
  It just was after that test, I was so pumped and amazing.
• 16:25
  So then we worked a pretty good deal out with Graham.
• 16:27
  He gave me a great deal as far as I had some inheritance from my uncle.
• 16:32
  It was like $70,000 and I spent that on that season.
• 16:36
  Wow.
• 16:37
  And that got me through that season.
• 16:38
  And at the same time, I met...
• 16:43
  is still a great friend of mine, Bevan Carrick, who was just a motorsport enthusiast, an older guy.
• 16:51
  He was probably in his 50s at that point, had a business called CoolTemp.
• 16:58
  And he had a former three car and he wanted me to come test it at Queensland Raceway.
• 17:01
  And I tested it and gave him good feedback and, you know, told him you need to open the diff up and this and that.
• 17:08
  And he was really impressed.
• 17:10
  He said, oh, well, we can go down and do a race.
• 17:13
  I think it might have been the opening race at Oran Park.
• 17:16
  This is the same year I got the ride with Graham Watson.
• 17:21
  So I had former Holden and former three at the same time.
• 17:24
  So I was getting a lot of miles.
• 17:27
  in open wheel cars with wings.
• 17:30
  And we went down to Orton Park after doing, I think the first couple of races in Formula Holden.
• 17:36
  And in an older Formula Three car, it was a 97 model.
• 17:39
  Everyone had 2001 models at that point, all the guys at the front.
• 17:46
  We destroyed the field.
• 17:47
  We won, you know, pole both races, you know, on pole, won both races, led every lap.
• 17:55
  And then did the same the next race, which was, what was it?
• 18:00
  Might have been Wakefield Park or something.
• 18:04
  And then I started meeting some people that started to take interest that had the money to send me overseas and do a test and start cracking that door open.
• 18:19
  So it was just really, I wouldn't say circumstance, but the fact that I had done so well in Formula 4, Graham Watson called me and Bevan Carrick had watched me and wanted me to test his car and did well in that.
• 18:32
  So then he gave me some races and then I met some people that could help me to get overseas.
• 18:38
  And, you know, that's how that started.
• 18:40
  And during that year, I actually went with Graham Watson with me and we went over and did a test to buy a car for one of the guys that was going to put money in, test a Formula 3 and if it was good.
• 18:53
  And I said it was good, he was going to buy it and bring it back to Australia.
• 18:57
  And that test was with actually Diamond Racing.
• 19:00
  So that was the first taste of driving anything overseas was at the end of 2002.
• 19:07
  And were you hooked at this point, mate?
• 19:09
  Like the dream of potentially Formula One or something like that in Europe must have seemed a bit more of a reality now.
• 19:18
  And I love the memories you've just shared of both Formula Three and Formula Holden because they have...
• 19:24
  revitalized, if you like, down here now, the Australian Drivers' Championship or the Gold Star, which you, I mean, your name is in the record books alongside some of those people.
• 19:33
  You know, having done that, mate, it was a very cool tick before you made that next step, wasn't it?
• 19:39
  It was to win the Gold Star because my father competed for the Gold Star.
• 19:44
  So, you know, when you're a kid, that seemed as a really big deal to me, which it was.
• 19:51
  And, um...
• 19:53
  It was the first championship I'd ever won.
• 19:58
  And it felt, yeah, it was fantastic.
• 20:00
  And I had my dad there the day I won it in Winton.
• 20:02
  And it was just a really cool, a great season.
• 20:08
  You know, and it's kind of...
• 20:10
  takes me back to my childhood when my brother and I would play racing and talk about racing guys like Graham Watson because that's, I mean, my dad raced Graham Watson, Arthur Abrahams, Peter Glover, Richard Davison, all these guys that are still kind of
• 20:28
  Because, you know, as you know, when you have a hero as a kid, they remain your hero, this big figure in your mind.
• 20:34
  So it was really cool to race for Graham Watson and win a championship there at the Gold Star and meet a lot of the people I used to hear my dad talk about in the paddock when I was a kid.
• 20:47
  A lot of the guys that dad would come home and he was talking about this guy and that guy and you'd see him around the paddock.
• 20:55
  So that was...
• 20:56
  yeah pretty pretty cool pretty cool to win the gold star the gold star was the third oldest continuously awarded title in australian motorsport with only the australian grand prix and the australian hill climb championship having a longer uninterrupted history
• 21:24
  You talked before about going overseas and kind of opening the door for the first time.
• 21:30
  How big a step was that?
• 21:32
  How hard was that?
• 21:33
  And were there moments of massive doubt where you thought this is just not going to pan out?
• 21:40
  There was always doubt.
• 21:42
  I just, there just was because of the situation.
• 21:45
  But yeah, it was a massive step to just...
• 21:49
  You know, we did the first test there.
• 21:52
  I've got to recall how that all worked out.
• 21:54
  We did the first test, which I did very well in.
• 21:57
  It's just kind of like a club open day to test on the track, but they had lap times from, you know, previously testing other Formula 3 drives and guys there, so they knew what was fast, and I was, you know, very quick there.
• 22:11
  Like, I think I was, like, under the lap record for that short track at Silverstone.
• 22:14
  I was at Silverstone.
• 22:16
  Yeah.
• 22:18
  So that got a couple of guys back in Australia with good money excited.
• 22:25
  And my dad actually sold.
• 22:31
  He had a business, Bob Power Canvas.
• 22:33
  And behind that business, he had a couple of houses.
• 22:35
  And he sold those two houses to get $400,000 to fund me.
• 22:39
  And I felt a massive...
• 22:46
  kind of pressure and guilt kind of.
• 22:49
  Man, that's like, you know, dad's savings.
• 22:53
  Like he's putting a lot on the line for me to succeed.
• 22:56
  And it's kind of a lot, you know, it is a long shot.
• 22:58
  It's tough.
• 23:00
  But anyway, I went over there and,
• 23:04
  We did a deal with Rolt.
• 23:05
  Everyone had Dolaris.
• 23:07
  We went with a group that built a Rolt.
• 23:13
  They called it a Rolt, but it wasn't Ron Toranac.
• 23:16
  I think someone had bought the rights and then designed a car.
• 23:21
  And we kind of went that way because Nelson Piquet Jr. at the time had been running it in Brazil and done reasonably well.
• 23:27
  And they were saying, well, he's probably going to run it, which he didn't.
• 23:29
  He came over and ran a Dallara.
• 23:32
  So we were the only Rolt in the field.
• 23:34
  And first race qualified like 28th out of 30, I reckon, or something like that.
• 23:39
  Just nowhere.
• 23:41
  And that went on for, God, I want to say we did six races like that.
• 23:45
  And then...
• 23:47
  Literally, I think we ran out of money or said, we're not wasting any more of our money on this.
• 23:52
  It's a waste of time.
• 23:53
  So I did a really good deal with Fortek.
• 23:56
  I went around to a few different teams.
• 23:58
  At that time, you could race Formula 3, which was the open class, and they actually had in the field B class, which was year-old cars.
• 24:07
  So I even talked to a couple of those teams, but that would have been just a total waste of time.
• 24:11
  So I went to Fortek and...
• 24:15
  did a good deal with those guys and got like the rest of the season testing like for, like I think I remember it was like a hundred thousand pounds, which was a really good deal at the time.
• 24:29
  Yeah.
• 24:29
  And, and,
• 24:32
  So that, like my first race, I think I qualified fifth straight away, like right on the pace, as quick as my teammate.
• 24:41
  And, you know, then it was competitive.
• 24:44
  I think I finished on the podium and went very well for the second half of the last group of those races and got a lot of testing and time.
• 24:54
  And then the next year I ended up with Alan Docking, which was a single car team.
• 25:02
  probably not the best situation.
• 25:05
  You know, you're racing against like Carlin who had four cars and four tech had two cars and, um, you know, some big teams and we simply, well, we did well, like I cough on the front often and was running at the front often, but it was, um,
• 25:21
  not ideal not having a teammate in that situation.
• 25:26
  And yeah, it was really at the end of that season, which was 2004, I was done.
• 25:35
  I was like, yep.
• 25:37
  The only kind of good thing about that season was I was going to get a test at the end of the year, no matter what, with Minardi in F1, myself and Will Davison.
• 25:48
  So yeah.
• 25:51
  And the next part of that story is, so I finished that season with nothing and really certainly had no money to do anything.
• 25:59
  I actually went into debt with Alan Docking to get that season.
• 26:03
  Wow.
• 26:03
  Signed a contract with him that I would pay him back.
• 26:07
  And I had that F1 test coming up and I thought, well, it'd be pretty smart to spend...
• 26:14
  I think I had to get $4,000 to do a test in F3000 at the track I'd be testing the Minardi.
• 26:22
  That was with a team called Draco, which was a really good team in F3000.
• 26:29
  They were testing four drivers that day.
• 26:32
  They didn't really know who I was and thought I was a bit of a disaster because I was trying to call them to get directions when I organized that test.
• 26:40
  And I'm like, look at the map.
• 26:42
  He goes, can you see this?
• 26:44
  And I was like...
• 26:45
  can you see this name?
• 26:46
  I said, I cannot see it.
• 26:47
  I'm like searching on this map that I got from the rent car place.
• 26:50
  And I'm like, and like the guy must've thought I was an idiot.
• 26:53
  And then after he turned over, it's like, Oh, it's a two sided map.
• 26:59
  So the map was on the back.
• 27:01
  And, and I was like, and he even said it at some point, he goes, you're a complete, you know, after the test, you're like a real disaster.
• 27:09
  But anyway, he,
• 27:11
  I did the test and they were testing four drivers, including me that day.
• 27:16
  I don't know what number I was when I went in, but I mean, I was a second quicker than all the guys.
• 27:22
  And they were the guys.
• 27:23
  I was just there to learn the track.
• 27:24
  That's all I wanted to do.
• 27:26
  I wasn't really thinking of anything else, but learn the track for the Formula One test.
• 27:31
  And they're like amazed at the speed.
• 27:35
  They really were because the three other drivers they were testing were for that seat for which F3000 was becoming World Series by Renault the next year.
• 27:46
  So it was the testing guys for that seat and they were amazing.
• 27:50
  really blown away at the speed to just destroy these other guys and kind of just left that test and didn't.
• 28:00
  I think they would have been asking me that test, how much money do you have?
• 28:04
  And I was like, legitimately, I have none.
• 28:07
  But I'm sure they've been used to that over the years of being a team, trying to find money to go racing.
• 28:13
  Yeah.
• 28:14
  of drivers saying they have no money, but they do, you know, have some money that's trying to get a good deal.
• 28:19
  But I legitimately had zero money.
• 28:24
  And so I was running out of my visa.
• 28:27
  I did the Minardi test and I actually even got feedback from that, that Will Davison and myself were really quick.
• 28:32
  We were as quick as a guy in the Minardi test.
• 28:37
  that had been testing for last day.
• 28:40
  We got in there and got to their pace.
• 28:41
  I was kind of like, who are these two Australian guys able to like, you know, and I tell you, you know, some of that speed would have been from Will and I desperately trying to be faster than each other, like desperately.
• 28:55
  Yeah.
• 28:57
  But we actually ended up like, I have to say, we did exactly the same time basically.
• 29:02
  It was like hundreds apart or something.
• 29:06
  So they, because I was Italian and they had a shop very close to the Nardi, they obviously all know each other and they heard about that too.
• 29:14
  So I was back in England and I think they called me and,
• 29:20
  Well, there's another test at Paul Ricard.
• 29:21
  It's with a new Renault car.
• 29:25
  And I said, I can't do it.
• 29:28
  I have no money and I'm running out of my visa and I have to go back to Australia.
• 29:32
  So if you guys want me to test, you're going to have to tell me now because I'm going back to Australia and I'm not going to afford to fly back.
• 29:45
  So they probably didn't believe me or whatever.
• 29:47
  I went back to Australia.
• 29:49
  resigned myself to just going back to work.
• 29:53
  And a couple of weeks later, that test must have been in, I can't remember, it was like a month or something.
• 29:59
  So it was in between the time I left from England and I went back to Australia.
• 30:04
  I remember it had been a couple of weeks and they called me on my home number.
• 30:09
  and said, you know, we really wanted you to come back and test.
• 30:12
  I'm like, look, I have no money.
• 30:14
  I'm telling you, I don't.
• 30:16
  And I think they believed me at that point because I really did just leave England and go.
• 30:20
  So they said, all right, if you get over here, you can sign a contract with us and it means that you can't go to any other team
• 30:31
  and we'll pay for your test.
• 30:32
  Mega.
• 30:33
  So we went there, and they were testing other drivers that day too.
• 30:36
  And I think I was P2.
• 30:39
  Robert Kubica was P1.
• 30:41
  I think Alvaro Parente was there.
• 30:44
  Like a lot of good drivers.
• 30:45
  So I was right up there.
• 30:47
  And with minimal time, like these other teams had drivers that had already signed, so they got the full two days of testing.
• 30:55
  I just got a portion of one day.
• 30:58
  And yeah,
• 31:00
  And once again, they were very impressed.
• 31:03
  And then it was just, oh man, it was very tough because what I needed to find for that was 250...
• 31:12
  like to do a season in that series was €600,000.
• 31:15
  And they said, we'll do a deal for you for €200,000, €250,000.
• 31:21
  And then I was dealing with some guys that were promising the money that didn't have it.
• 31:27
  So there was a bit of tension between myself and Draco, the team, because they wanted to get a deal done.
• 31:38
  and be sure that I was good for the money.
• 31:39
  And it just kept dragging on and on and on.
• 31:43
  And we somewhat had a bit of a falling out.
• 31:46
  But I still had a contract with those guys who had tested them.
• 31:50
  And it would be 20,000 pounds, if I remember correctly, to get out of that contract.
• 31:55
  In the meantime, my girlfriend back in England, Kerry Fenwick, who was working for Mark Webber, was kind of upset that I wouldn't be coming back.
• 32:05
  And I think Anne Neal and Mark said, why don't you call Carlin?
• 32:09
  They've got a...
• 32:11
  And they're starting a former World Series by Renault team.
• 32:16
  Just call them.
• 32:16
  She's like, we've got no money.
• 32:17
  And then they kind of said, well, we'll back you for the first half of the season.
• 32:26
  And then you do well enough, we can just find the money.
• 32:29
  So that's how that all started.
• 32:31
  I love it.
• 32:32
  So I didn't talk to Draco again.
• 32:35
  Like I kind of just... Like they knew I had a contract with them and they really wanted me as a driver.
• 32:40
  I know, but they were just...
• 32:42
  They were tough to get on.
• 32:43
  Somewhat playing games.
• 32:44
  And so I just turned up to...
• 32:48
  I think the first test again was, it might have been Barcelona.
• 32:52
  I turned up to Barcelona with Carlin and was P1, like legitimately P1 of the whole field.
• 32:59
  And they were there testing.
• 33:00
  I remember Johnny Reeve from New Zealand was there testing with Draco.
• 33:05
  So then obviously the legal proceeding started after they saw that because I had a contract with them.
• 33:13
  Hmm.
• 33:15
  And it was leading up.
• 33:18
  So we did all the testing with Carl and I was very quick all the way through.
• 33:22
  I had a great engineer, Daniella Rossi, still around.
• 33:26
  And I had Draco nipping at my heels with legal proceedings.
• 33:32
  And I can't remember...
• 33:36
  what they had sent me.
• 33:38
  Overwhelming for a young bloke, mate.
• 33:40
  It was just like another 20,000 pounds to get there.
• 33:45
  I just do not have the money to pay this to get out of it.
• 33:48
  But I've got this great deal with Carlin that Mark Webber's backed.
• 33:52
  And, you know, it's – so we went to the first race and Trev Carlin – I think it was Trev Carlin and his –
• 34:05
  There's another guy, what's his name, Steve, who worked there.
• 34:07
  They helped me on the case.
• 34:10
  And Nicky Pastorelli, who was managed by Draco, was testing for Midland F1.
• 34:16
  And Trevor Carlin was running Midland F1.
• 34:22
  So he did a deal with Draco, said, look, drop the case immediately.
• 34:27
  And we got out of it for like $2,000 for the seat or something.
• 34:31
  And we'll give Nicky Pastorelli some more straight line testing.
• 34:36
  And so that's how that deal got resolved.
• 34:40
  Yeah, it was a stressful time.
• 34:42
  That was great.
• 34:42
  That was really great.
• 34:43
  I still didn't have the budget to finish the season though with Carlin.
• 34:47
  But that all started and we were really quick.
• 34:50
  As you and Robert Kubik are going toe-to-toe, weren't you?
• 34:53
  Yes, it was.
• 34:53
  It was myself and Robert Kubica and I got, it was coming.
• 34:56
  Like I remember Robert saying to me, Oh, you're coming because I kept edging closer to him in the championship.
• 35:01
  And then we had the disastrous wet weekends.
• 35:05
  You could say one was at Auschwitzleben in Germany and it was the first wet race.
• 35:11
  Um, and yeah,
• 35:14
  Basically, apparently the year before, to get the wet tires to work, you had to pump them up like massive pressure, which is kind of counterintuitive.
• 35:23
  Like anything that I've done the wet now, you just don't do that.
• 35:26
  But that's what they did.
• 35:28
  And that's what we were doing.
• 35:31
  And I crashed and I think I was like leading at Osher Slavin or right there.
• 35:38
  And I can't remember, I may have qualified on pole, but crashed out in the wet, went wet.
• 35:43
  We put those wets on.
• 35:46
  One race, the wheel gun got stuck and it just ruined the, I think we had to stop.
• 35:51
  We couldn't get the wheel nut off in the pit stop.
• 35:55
  Then the next weekend at Donington was fully wet.
• 35:59
  all the way through practice qualifying.
• 36:03
  And we just like, what's going on?
• 36:05
  Like there's guys at the front that, you know, we usually beat them.
• 36:08
  It's like a 30 car field and we were way back.
• 36:10
  Like normally we're running top five every time.
• 36:14
  And Andy Zuber, who was my teammate, I think, I can't remember if Trev was there, but he said, just let the bloody tires down.
• 36:21
  Because I remember asking my engineer, are you sure that we should be running, I think it was like 30 PSI on these bloody tires.
• 36:28
  Are you sure?
• 36:29
  And he's like, yes, that's how you had to run.
• 36:30
  He even called Adrian Burgess, who had been running.
• 36:34
  He called Adrian Burgess, who was at Star.
• 36:38
  working for Jordan F1, I believe, and said, what about these?
• 36:42
  You know, you should.
• 36:43
  The double check.
• 36:43
  Yeah, and Adrian, I think, had been running those cars, you know, a couple of years before.
• 36:49
  So he's like, yeah, that's what you've got to run.
• 36:51
  So they let Andy's tires, like, you know, chunk out and immediately, boom, way quicker.
• 36:58
  I'm like, ugh.
• 36:58
  Yeah.
• 37:00
  So, yeah, it was too late then, kind of qualified way back, but we found what the problem was.
• 37:06
  And that really, at that point, I had been getting calls from Derek Walker to come and test an IndyCar, the ChampCar, yeah.
• 37:17
  So not having the money to continue and then really getting those two weekends just to ruin the championship and not having a chance to win.
• 37:27
  I was like, why, you know, I can go test the champ car, which I did.
• 37:31
  And it was just an amazing experience.
• 37:35
  feeling that horsepower and everything in those champ cars.
• 37:39
  And to think that I would get paid for that versus having to pay, you know, it was pretty clear what I needed to do.
• 37:45
  So, you know, I had to call Trev and say, sorry, I don't have the money.
• 37:48
  And he wasn't all that happy about that.
• 37:52
  I'd have to go try to find another driver to fill that seat.
• 37:54
  But that was just the situation it was.
• 37:59
  and at that point I started pursuing the Team Australia, although they were very keen to get an Australian driver in there that could do well for them and gave me a test and I did really well.
• 38:12
  And then they said, well, you can race at the...
• 38:16
  the uh first the australian indy race on the gold coast yeah yeah and i really at that point i'd only had that test at portland there was quite a bit of time in between i was kind of like saying that derrick walk said like you know i have no experience in these cars you're going to put me straight in a race you know can we do a test somewhere and just they really didn't have the car together and they couldn't so i just turned up to that and
• 38:43
  kind of did my absolute best to make it a good weekend, which it really was, I think, a real taste.
• 38:51
  And then actually it was the last few races to do Mexico City as well and did really well in that race.
• 38:59
  And practice and so on was quite fast.
• 39:04
  I think I'd already signed a contract with those guys at that point.
• 39:07
  It was a three-year contract.
• 39:10
  I'm pretty sure it was a three-year contract.
• 39:11
  I'd already signed with Team Australia at that point.
• 39:13
  So I think I felt pretty comfortable and happy to be there because I was going to be paid to drive a bloody champ car, which is just amazing.
• 39:21
  Amazing, yeah.
• 39:22
  Amazing.
• 39:24
  So, yeah, that was kind of the start of that.
• 39:26
  At the same time, I was racing A1 GP.
• 39:32
  Those guys, that was all...
• 39:35
  starting and there's a heap of money going to it and as a driver you're getting paid 20 grand a race to win or I think it's 200 grand to win and you got 10% of it I think I finished second to PK qualified right at the front of that Alan Jones was there and a bunch of other guys and
• 39:55
  And there was, what do we have?
• 39:57
  Christian Jones was there at that first weekend at Brands Hash.
• 40:01
  This was all going on while I had signed for Team Australia Champ Car and there was Team Australia A1 GP.
• 40:12
  And so it's kind of...
• 40:17
  thinking you can make some really good money here.
• 40:19
  Yeah.
• 40:20
  So they did that first race, which is, you know, very like the whole promoter of the series and everyone did a great job.
• 40:27
  Like they put a lot of money into that.
• 40:29
  And yeah, it did really well that weekend.
• 40:33
  And there was a lot of drivers lining up.
• 40:34
  I remember Will Davison was lining up.
• 40:37
  There was a test thrown in there somewhere where we all turned up, Peter Hackett, Will Davison, Christian Jones,
• 40:44
  and myself and kind of vying for that seat and then the first race came and I think Christian Jones was there and myself Will couldn't do it for some, I couldn't remember, he may have been heading down the V8 supercar track at that point and Christian took some of my practice up, I thought that was ridiculous I'm like come on mate
• 41:06
  We want to do well here.
• 41:09
  If you guys are serious, you should do that.
• 41:11
  There's some other Aussie there too that was trying to get to see.
• 41:15
  I can't remember who it was.
• 41:16
  But anyway, I think we – I may have qualified right at the front for that.
• 41:22
  I may have qualified –
• 41:24
  on pole or second, top four anyway, and did really well, finished second.
• 41:29
  And Alan Jones is really happy about that because it's kind of like at that point I just remember seeing him and his wife, like really stoked that we did well.
• 41:37
  It's good for him financially and for the team.
• 41:42
  For Australia.
• 41:44
  And Australia.
• 41:44
  And then I got a call from Derek Walker saying, or Craig Gore, I can't remember, telling me you can't do it.
• 41:54
  They'd seen it on TV.
• 41:57
  And he said, we don't want you driving for that Team Australia.
• 41:59
  So I had to tell those guys which were going to the next race and they were massively disappointed.
• 42:04
  I said, sorry, I can't do it.
• 42:06
  I've got a contract with Team Australia.
• 42:08
  It's in the Champ Car Team Australia and I can't race for you guys, which was massively disappointing for me because it was just more miles than a bloody open wheel car and you were getting paid.
• 42:21
  And it was a cool series too.
• 42:25
  And clearly your career is turning here.
• 42:27
  It's opening the doors to America and what would be a really successful chunk of your life.
• 42:32
  Can we wrap up the European thing just quickly with a couple of things?
• 42:36
  With a couple of things.
• 42:37
  Listeners will be intrigued, firstly, about the Minardi test.
• 42:41
  Tell us what it was like for a young man to finally drive an F1 car.
• 42:45
  You're there on the day with your good mate, Will Davison, the pair of you going toe-to-toe in this car.
• 42:50
  I mean, it wasn't a pointy end Formula One car in terms of the feel, but the fact that you were driving one was a massive thing.
• 43:00
  It absolutely blew me away, the horsepower.
• 43:05
  It just... Because I'd only...
• 43:07
  I'd driven the F2000 car, which felt pretty quick.
• 43:14
  And before that, just F3, a lot of F3 during that year.
• 43:18
  But the Formula One cars, you drove out of the pits...
• 43:22
  Yeah, I'm like putting the throttle down a bit.
• 43:25
  I'm like, you know, I'm not seeing any shift flash.
• 43:27
  What the hell, man?
• 43:28
  I just go and suddenly it just keeps revving like to whatever they rev to, 18 grand.
• 43:33
  And it's just nuts, man.
• 43:35
  Like nuts is the feeling.
• 43:38
  Like just kicked you in the ass.
• 43:42
  The amount of power from what I had been driving to that just blew me away.
• 43:48
  Just an amazing feeling.
• 43:49
  I really was.
• 43:50
  Keep going.
• 43:52
  Braking, aero, yeah.
• 43:53
  The aero wasn't like crazy because there was no massively fast corners, but the braking, like how late you could brake with confidence, no locking up.
• 44:01
  Yeah, the middle of the corner wasn't like...
• 44:03
  a heap of grip, but just getting on that throttle with traction control.
• 44:08
  I actually thought to myself, like, how could you even drive this thing without traction control?
• 44:12
  I couldn't imagine like trying to drive it without traction control.
• 44:16
  Cause it was naturally aspirated 850 horsepower in something that weighed, what would you say?
• 44:22
  600 kilos.
• 44:24
  Crazy.
• 44:25
  I mean, just insane.
• 44:26
  Yeah.
• 44:27
  It was just, it was crazy.
• 44:29
  It was amazing.
• 44:30
  It really was.
• 44:31
  The braking, the acceleration though, the acceleration to all those gears.
• 44:36
  I remember doing that test that I said with Carlin after that, just felt like nothing.
• 44:43
  Like after you did that, everything felt so slow.
• 44:48
  But then the Champ car also was equally pretty cool because it kept just going as well.
• 44:55
  It was turbo, so you didn't have that massive torque.
• 44:59
  You had a bit of turbo lag, but the top end was just like the Minardi.
• 45:04
  But the Minardi, the torque and the traction control and the speed, the weight, man, that, yeah, it was something else.
• 45:11
  That was something I'll never forget about.
• 45:13
  I remember just talking about it a lot over that whole Christmas.
• 45:16
  It just had blown me away so much.
• 45:18
  It was really cool.
• 45:19
  Very great.
• 45:20
  For an aspiring racer, that's a massive box to tick.
• 45:29
  The hardship of having no money and trying to stitch a deal together, there are two things I want to touch on.
• 45:35
  You mentioned Mark Webber and Anne Neer.
• 45:38
  We'll get to them in a second.
• 45:39
  But a couple of journo colleagues of mine, Mark Lindenning and Stephen Otley, I think have a fun story.
• 45:46
  And you'll be able to correct me if I have the recollection of it wrong.
• 45:49
  Yeah.
• 45:50
  But at one point, one of them, I think, rang you to talk about where you were at and how you were going.
• 45:55
  And in the space of recording this phone interview, you went from saying, I quit, I'm out, I'm done, this is too hard, da-da-da-da-da.
• 46:05
  And by the end of the conversation, you were back, weren't you?
• 46:08
  I mean, it was that sort of rollercoaster ride that you were going through.
• 46:12
  Yeah, no, I used to have some pretty...
• 46:15
  I'm pretty emotionally he was a roller coaster sort of guy.
• 46:19
  Still am like just that sort of person.
• 46:22
  But, oh yeah, I can imagine.
• 46:24
  I can't remember the exact phone call but I'm sure that happened.
• 46:27
  I'm sure that happened.
• 46:30
  I was like,
• 46:31
  So desperately wanting to make it though, like so desperately.
• 46:35
  And then you'd see these kids that had it so easy.
• 46:40
  They just rock up in a bloody BMW.
• 46:43
  And I was struggling to pay rent, had to borrow a car.
• 46:48
  And they were with the best team, Carlin, and did all the testing.
• 46:52
  It just was...
• 46:53
  I so desperately wanted, not that, but to make it.
• 46:57
  And, yeah, so that's some of the emotion would come out when I'd speak to those journos, you know, Mark and Stephen Otley.
• 47:08
  They were great guys.
• 47:10
  Mark Glendening lives over here.
• 47:12
  I see him at some IndyCar races.
• 47:14
  Yeah.
• 47:15
  Really good guy.
• 47:16
  Cool.
• 47:17
  Hey, so how did the conversation with Mark and Anne play out?
• 47:21
  Because, you know, he'd been down the Formula One path.
• 47:24
  They knew that landscape very well.
• 47:26
  I would imagine there was probably a want, if at all possible, to keep you steered towards Europe, but this opportunity had emerged in America.
• 47:35
  So how did that all play out for you guys?
• 47:39
  When I got the offer to go Jam Car.
• 47:42
  Yeah, I do actually remember the conversation.
• 47:45
  I was with myself and Kerry and Mark and Andir.
• 47:51
  They were totally understanding at that point because it was either
• 47:58
  find a million dollars to go race GP2 at the time or get paid to race champ car.
• 48:06
  And it was just such an obvious thing.
• 48:08
  It was just such an obvious answer.
• 48:10
  At some point, you're going to have to realize that,
• 48:16
  To get to Formula 1, you've got to have some serious backing and politically be in the right position because you need a manufacturer or a spot.
• 48:27
  It's just...
• 48:28
  It seemed like such a struggle.
• 48:31
  It was a struggle up to that point, but then to go and then again find another million dollars in a series that had just started and you don't even know what team was good or, man.
• 48:42
  And I saw some disaster.
• 48:44
  I think about some of the...
• 48:46
  disaster stories you saw of that when the gearboxes weren't working and had issues with the brakes.
• 48:51
  Imagine being the guy who struggled to get that someone like me and you just wasted it away and didn't take the champ car ride.
• 48:59
  So it's so obvious.
• 49:01
  I remember that
• 49:03
  they were totally like, yes, you should take this.
• 49:07
  And, you know, it was the right move because you're going to get stuck paying off your debts.
• 49:14
  Go forward.
• 49:15
  Yes.
• 49:20
  At the end of part one of my podcast with Indy 500 winner Will Power.
• 49:24
  If you're driving and you've got time now, hit the gas on part two.
• 49:28
  It's in the Rusty's Garage library, ready to be fired up whenever you are.
• 49:32
  The discussion around a massive crash at Las Vegas in 2011 is captivating, I promise you.
• 49:39
  Plus, breaking through after going so close to winning the IndyCar title.
• 49:44
  And finally...
• 49:45
  getting to drink that winner's milk at Indianapolis, the first Aussie in the race's 100-year history to do it.
• 49:53
  And he puts you in the driver's seat to understand why going round in circles is way harder than most in the general public realise.