Latest / GAIN Momentum / Living in Many Countries and Working at Many Companies | with Custódio Barreiros
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- GAIN Momentum episode #42 - Living in Many Countries and Working at Many Companies | with Custodio Barreiros === Adam Mogelonsky: Welcome to the Game Momentum podcast focusing on timeless lessons from senior leaders in hospitality, travel, food service, and technology. I'm joined by my co host here today, Vincent Somsen. Vincent, how are you? Vincent Somsen: Hello, Adam. Hello, Custodio. Um, glad to be here. Uh, looking forward to this conversation. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, it's going to be great. And our special guest today is Custodio Barreiros. How are Custodio Barreiros: Again, super impressed by how you pronounced my name today. I think I'll have to pay you or send you a gift. Maybe a healthy one, not an unhealthy one, of course. But, uh, very well. Enjoying the warm weather of Hungary. unfortunately, not as nice weather as Vincent mentioned to us previously, but very warm indeed here today. Adam Mogelonsky: Awesome. Well, you are the founder and president of EIPMGT. that is correct, it's a consultancy, or how would you describe your [00:01:00] firm? Custodio Barreiros: Hospitality consultancy, but with the heart of not just technology, but the human in hospitality. I think, we speak a lot about guest journey. We speak a lot about hospitality, the new post pandemic guest and so on. I'm really focusing on the element of Hospitality, end users. those guys who save our bacon a lot of the time when we travel and how technology can help them as well to deliver what they signed up for is the best way to describe in layman terms. Adam Mogelonsky: Awesome. Well, we structure this podcast around four key questions, but before we get into the first one, just to, you know, set the scene for everyone here, everyone listening, you have a British or Scottish accent. You've mentioned you're in Hungary right now, and you have a Portuguese last name. Can you unpack, uh, who you are a bit? Custodio Barreiros: Yeah, it's, I'm a son of hospitality workers, that's the best way to describe it, that's what hospitality is about. So, my parents were [00:02:00] Portuguese immigrants, I was born in London, did tread the little bit of the Scottish borders at one point, through Korea. I'm currently in a place that my wife and I have in Hungary, but normally I reside in Austria, so to confuse you even more, I lived in London most of my life, or in the UK most of my life. A year and a half ago, I did the Brexit. It's the best way to describe it to the industry, everyone who's known me, knows my love for Europe. I live in a place called Graz. Anyone who knows Arnold Schwarzenegger knows Graz, and knows Steiermark. I fell in love with it ten years ago. I have a passion outside of hospitality, a Ducati monster, so to ride up the mountains on the weekends or to take the mountain bike out, uh, which is a lot nicer. So we decided post pandemic, to make the jump across to Europe. So I do have dual nationality, British Portuguese, and being a true son of hospitality by all forms, mother and father, not just one. That's why I ended up where I am at the moment to a certain extent, uh, enjoying the good. [00:03:00] Austrian space coming into Hungary. Uh, yesterday to enjoy 40 degrees Celsius, maybe not the best time to drive here, to be fair, I should have stayed in the mountains. Uh, but that's the reason why you see a Portuguese name, born in South London, living in Austria, currently in Hungary. Adam Mogelonsky: and yeah, of course I know Graz because I know Schwarzenegger, and I hear Styria has the best, some of the best food in Europe. It's a hidden gem, so anyone Custodio Barreiros: Do you know what it is? It's not even the restaurant. You've got great chefs, don't get me wrong, in great places to go and hospitalities. When you find traditional Austrian farmhouses, where you get the seasonal product being showcased. by a grandmother, by a mother of a familythe same way here they cook for their family, they cook for you. And for me, that's my, normally tends to be my Saturday or Sunday. Uh, you ride or you drive up the mountain and you're decently by a lake and we're within distance. You're enjoying a nice traditional meal. So I've been very [00:04:00] fortunate. I'm plant based as well. So the community here is accepting me as such. It is meat heavy, of course, in certain parts in the countryside exterior, as you can imagine. But been super surprised by the plant based offerings here. And I mean that, super surprised. I could never expect it in a really good way. I advise anyone to do. I've had friends over from, admittedly, not too far away from you, or the same country, in fact, that came over to visit. Just surprising, just the scenery, but also the, some of the traditional offerings that Horshoe has for it, for visitors as well. Adam Mogelonsky: Well, for anyone who's, uh, yet to plan their, their trip or are looking for it, but Custodio, let's get into our first question here. When it comes to scaling a business, what is the single piece of advice you would give entrepreneurs from your perspective as a professional in hospitality technology? Custodio Barreiros: One word, partnerships. It really is. I think, especially in hospitality, we have to think at the heart of the industry we're [00:05:00] selling to, or we work in with, subject to what side of the line you are, or the table. A hotel does not work in one department. All departments have to partner and work, communicate effectively to deliver the excellent service that we all expect as guests. The industry should work in the same way. Partnerships doesn't mean just an integration and the pain of going through all of that. It means really partnering, even in the consultancy world with someone who has a different expertise. The team of individuals, for example, with GAIN is a prime example. Everyone's got very unique expertise, and when brought together, they become the force that they are at the moment in recognizing industry. Again, the industry and the tech providers should think of that, or the partners to the industry. how do they work better together for the ultimate goal? And look at the objective they want to deliver. If you look at partnerships, then you open new markets. We've got three people on this call, three different locations. One call. It's the same when it comes [00:06:00] to our industry and the industry that we all live in, being guests, travellers, partners. The other thing is you'll open new markets. You learn different understandings, different learnings, because partnerships also bring you a level of education that you sometimes don't have access to as a property, as a provider to the industry. Partnerships brings then another key point, which is the cultural awareness. Being based in Canada, based in Spain, being a Portuguese lost in Austria. We all learn different ways of communicating, how to address our local cultures. It's the same thing, as soon as you grow up there. The level of partnerships elevates on how to succeed in the industry because you listen, you learn. And you bring that element. And you're open to speak to others as well. I think there is that. I think sometimes industry tends to close themselves in very much different silos being providers, hotels, management companies. I think when we open the doors, we can, there's so much that we can do when we do more together as partners to the industry. And I think that's a key thing [00:07:00] for me for success. And something I'm going to be 50 next year, obviously taking your advice and my private health consultant, I think I'll be rich more than that. But I think The truth element of the networking element between partnerships, learning, growing, events, and so on. And nurturing those, right? You can't just be a partner to someone and think, Vincent, I'll speak to you in three months when I need you again. There's also communication, knowing what that person is doing, and taking an interest in that partnership is vital for us. And I think in the industry, we don't shout enough or we don't maximize some partnerships enough. And I've seen that in companies I've worked where. single individual product has 200 plus partners, but they mentioned the top three. Why only the top three? We don't know what everyone's objectives are for that particular product. Really elevate that and work with the other partners and bring that to the forefront because hotels that we know in the world that work better together are the ones that all departments partner together to elevate that service. So why aren't the partners doing the same to elevate that service even further in that sense?[00:08:00] Vincent Somsen: Do you have any, primary example that you normally refer to when you talk about a successful partnership, that you've seen in the past working with different companies? I Custodio Barreiros: I go back and I'm biased, so I say this openly in public, obviously with Hotsauce and Amadeus, it's kind of what brought me to technology in 2014. The EmTech team there brought an element, they started at the core of the company by bringing different people in from different nationalities, different areas, different specialities together. That grew the product to have possibly the largest list of integrations I've ever worked with from an operational point of view. But they were very open to get more and more integrations, and it was on client guest demand. I think those partnerships also, if you're providing to the industry, you need to listen to that end user. I think we have, that example is key for me when it comes to partnerships. I could say our partner with you, Vincent, If they're asking me for towels, I will lose that. So, speak and listen at the same time. And it goes back to what [00:09:00] my father used to say to me, and he's a hotelier through and through, he's two of these, one of these, so to speak. And you really have to engage those. And I think there's so much data and information. And, you know EmTech were doing that, they were gathering all that data and saying, right, where do we need to go? What level of partnerships do we need in this region, that region? That cultural awareness they were bringing in is why HotSource spread like fire at the time with service optimization. And when you think about it, look at how many service optimization providers are now in the market space after HotSource. And I've left four years ago, five years ago, the company, I still hear, I'm doing this to compete with HotSource. And I'm like, This was 10 years ago, guys. There's so much to have a product in a marketplace. But when you put that footprint out in the market space, you're doing something right. Because the industry is listening to you, your competitors are listening to you. And I think that's one of the key things I saw there done really well. And I think the team there, some of them friends of the game community, like Luis [00:10:00] Segredo, Orly Acosta, Alberto Santana, who have worked in various roles. They still have that mentality of, Yes, we have a product that we wrote for this particular company, but it's the partnerships that elevates that product forward, and I think that's been a key, focus for me as I grow in the industry as well. Adam Mogelonsky: Not to be devil's advocate here, but we, I think we all recognize the value of partnerships. But I would caution about time and resources, where Specifically in hotel technology, there's so many players and there's more players coming in and it's this vast ecosystem where you could spend a thousand percent of your available money and resources just focusing on building partnerships. So, what would you advise for companies Let's say in the early scale upstage, what would you advise them for where to focus their efforts on those top three or top [00:11:00] five partnerships that they think will be most effective in terms of growing their own business? Custodio Barreiros: You're literally reading the notes from my meeting this morning I had in Budapest, uh, with one, with one small group in Hungary, hence the reason I'm here. I think you need to know the region you're going into. I think as a partner into the industry, it's great to say I'm going global. That's the same as spreading a cube of butter and trying to cook 30 steaks in our industry. Do you want to provide the best steak or do you want to provide half hearted meat? To your guests. And I think that was the conversation I had with the owner of Free Properties. What really do you want to deliver? What do you want to do? And that's the same out there with a partner. And it would be in the sense of, where is your market focus? Where is your resources available to you? Your own internal resources to start with? Because you have to think of You've got this wonderful product, you want to bring it out to the marketplace and you want to grow in hospitality. How many tech startups have we seen in the last 10 years that we would never even have managed to be touching hospitality prior [00:12:00] to that? And the pandemic brought in more startups and more technologies, which I'm sure we'll discuss in, and we've been discussing this, podcast in the past. But think of where you want to go and really look at your resources there. Then look at your regions. You might focus on, I want to be partnering with Oracle in Amadeus. Hold on a minute. You're in Budapest. Are those brands really going to affect you? It's great that your neighbor's doing that. Are they being more successful than you? What do you really want to achieve? And I think that is a question that we need to ask ourselves as providers to the industry. The same as a one man consultant. Yeah, I've traveled the world in the past, but in the past I had companies like Amadeus and others supporting me. I can't be everywhere at once, so it would be very unfair for me too. Try and take over the world or compete with anyone. I'll better partner with a consultant who's in the US and Canada and Spain to reach out and work together. And it's the same thing for any tech provider. and these tech providers over here, it was actually a company from Spain. I said, look, [00:13:00] guys, we need this, but you have the resources to translate to Hungary and to do this with everything you're doing, because that's the other thing you have to think of. You have to look at the now. And I think it's great to say in the future, I will add this and that, but when you need to install or you want to win that business that needs to turn over in the next few months. That our owners are demanding, are you able to do that with the resources you have available to you? We are in an industry that on both sides of the table, there's a shortage of staff as well. So there's a lot of things you need to address, but concretely, where do you want to go? Where do you want to really make that really impact that set you off and creating, as you said, those three or four, or even two partners that are going to elevate you to what you want to do. And if you pick one in Dubai and one in America. It's like suspending a fredris or heavyweight in the middle in Europe. Make it tight, make it work, and ensure that you're listening to your, client. At the end of the day, I think you can only address those partners when you know what your clients [00:14:00] want as well. It's great for you to think you may know it, but your clients may be asking for something else completely different. So have you done your market research? Have you look at where you can operate? How much change you need to do to your product to be able to operate and provide that as well is a question you should be asking because it's great to say I want to work in America, okay? Have we looked at the legislations? Have we looked at data protection? Can you actually do so? The same at the moment and everyone's in my territory at the moment in everyone's territory the giga projects of KSA of the kingdom. Have you been certified? Do you have the trading licenses? Have you spoken to the Ministry of Tourism on what's happening next week that they don't even know yet that a government minister will throw into the table? Are you ready for that? And sometimes when you scale up, you want to because you want to go after the big money, right? Everyone wants to go after the same as the big four and everything else. Realistically, What will give you the success to reach the big four, or are you going to hit that wall of the big four and stay hovering outside it all the time? [00:15:00] I think that's a question that startups need to ask themselves, personally speaking, from what I've seen. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. I mean, it's a huge problem. It's not going to be solved in a day, especially the data protection and compliance aspect, which is, whew, that's a, that's a two hour conversation, at least. Custodio Barreiros: Well, this is it. I think we have to see of, as a startup, if you, especially a lot of startups, want to get into the new markets because they believe the new money, there's money, so I want to follow the money trail. However, with the ever changing landscape of those new markets which the market itself does not even know where it's going with future visions. Why not create a foundation somewhere that you can then move into those markets accordingly instead of trying to rush, i. e. the old saying, don't run before you can walk. And I think that it's hard to take because we all want to succeed, we all want to be at the top of the ladder, but I want to make sure there's a solid ladder underneath me to support me if I need to take two steps down or stay in [00:16:00] one step instead of climbing up too fast and then thinking. What's down there? Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, well, speaking of running before you can walk, let's get into our second question, focusing on some potential errors or challenges you may have noticed. So, Custodio, what are the, some of the common pitfalls or failures you have witnessed that business owners should look to avoid when scaling their business? Custodio Barreiros: I think there's a misconception from partners in the industry and especially commercial partners, i. e. someone like a CROs and maybe some CEOs that hospitality is a silver bullet industry. The reason for that is they see some of the bigger players winning the big deal, so they would want to come in as a startup and think they're going to take the same. I think you need to realize the time that nothing happens fast in our industry. We've seen that, especially in technology, adapting new technology, bringing in technology, merging it with old technology, trying to make it all work together. And I don't envy any technology provider coming into our industry as a new [00:17:00] starter without doing full research, regional research as well. It's not just internationally, like I mentioned. You really have to go by segment. A hotel in the US does not operate the same way as a hotel in Europe. Europe. itself is a minefield. I'm Portuguese, as I mentioned earlier. Hotels in Portugal operate differently than they do where Vincent is in Spain, and that's the same brands. So to have that kind of research done is the first thing. Have you really consulted your peers? I think there's a, the new tech providers need to understand that you can't have a know it all attitude because there's now so much tech and so much information out there you really need to research it and speak to others. I think the great thing about the The three of us have seen it various times. We all communicate and we all are in the industry. So that kind of level of communication needs to be done. Sometimes when you leave your circle and say, I'm going to do this, this is what the industry needs. If you Google it two minutes later, someone else is already doing it. What's going [00:18:00] to differentiate you? Have you researched that? The problem with our industry is we've not standardized any of the terminology around technology. And something like a digital concierge can mean an itinerary, can mean an upsell tool, Came in someone who answers your question, what is it? And suddenly coming to the forefront of a concierge platform, you think, who are you endorsed by? Claydor? Not Claydor. Are you going to have to just like remark it? Are you providing what level of service? Then, the research isn't just on the product, but what you need on partnerships, as we mentioned earlier. No product will come in alone and be, that's it. Not even the PMS stands alone nowadays in our industry. The good old days are the PMS would stand alone enough we'd connect to it. That was when I started with availability sheets, to digital transformation. It's something that you need to integrate your tool with something else to bring it to life. If you also research the cultural elements, not only the territory where the group, the location you're working in, but of the staff that [00:19:00] are working in that territory. Because those are the end users, we might be selling to two people. I'm selling to gain advisors. Vincent, would you like to sign? How about the 2, 000 gain advisors, ambassadors, known members of the community that will be using the software? How many hundreds of nationalities are in our industry? And that's one of the key things. We can have a beautiful tool that helps housekeeping operations from the house back of house. Give you an idea, Intercontinental, Parclane, the loners, 23 nationalities in housekeeping. Adam Mogelonsky: Whoa, 23. Custodio Barreiros: Yes. And that was when I was in hot sauce and doing the housekeepers, you can only imagine now, right? So that's the other thing you have to think of. Everyone will pick up the phone. Everyone will engage differently. Everyone has a different ability towards working with technology on a day to day basis. So if you don't engage in doing that research, the pitfalls are there. You really have to see what the industry is [00:20:00] doing, where it's going, where it's not going. And also scalability. Don't bring something that does today. Because it's great. We have great ideas as human beings, but we are in a generation now, unfortunately. I say this because I'm a father of a 20 year old. So it's like, when he asks for something, it means that he wanted it three days ago. The industry itself is that. And the industry will not adapt it immediately. Hospitality will look at it. Where is it working? Can you give me some references? And then go through. But by the time they're ready to implement it, that particular first target of that Start startup, your technology may be outdated already. You able be ready for when they're ready for, and industry as comes. And I think that's one of the things that some companies I've seen, both I worked with and no one's perfect. And then the pitfall is not being ready to action. Those pitfalls [00:21:00] you can recognize as a company that you've entered the pitfall. Haven't done your market research. You've developed a feature that no one's going to use. Take that back. Really focus on what's needed. But are you able to have the team power and the manpower to be able to action it then? I don't think anyone can really project at times the resources needed for that particular button or feature to come in on your mobile phone to help that housekeeping room attendant. It's not as easy as just someone will do it here and do it. And that's the reason we've seen great tools in the marketplace that were great tools five, 10 years ago, or even just pre pandemic that have disappeared off. Any tech stack post pandemic, because they were operating in that silo, that particular moment now, without a vision of the future. And I think that's one of the key things. Adam Mogelonsky: you know, it's very, very powerful stuff. And I'm, immediately thinking, how do we instill this on players that are trying to come into hospitality, whether startups [00:22:00] or fully established companies, just to make them check themselves before they wreck themselves. Right. Custodio Barreiros: 100%. Adam Mogelonsky: I, I do think my, my first thought, you mentioned the 23 different languages of the intercontinental. And my first thought is that just out of the blue, I just thought Gen AI is going to play a role to really help with at least translations and making things more adaptable. So I want to get into our third question and I want to, I just wanted to plant the AI seed there. Thank you. So, Custodio, our third question. What do you see as the key opportunities and challenges for hotel technology companies in 2024 and beyond? Custodio Barreiros: To become industry educators. That's crazy, right? We've got this wonderful technology, we've got AI, which even I'm learning from my son and reading Vincent's posts admittedly and your posts from time to time about it, I'm not going to lie. I'm a different age group to the two of you, so I have to do a lot more learning on a [00:23:00] new subject like that. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Custodio Barreiros: However, there's one thing. Providers, our industry technology providers, have done one tricky mistake throughout their history. Make things sound overcomplicated, which I'm not. AI started going down the same way. We've never told or ever explained technology to say, AI is here to help you do this, to alleviate the time that you need to do this, this, and this. As soon as you start describing things in the human factor and speaking to the humans, I think that's the opportunity. I believe of AI. Unfortunately, in our industry, as soon as you talk about generative AI, it's chatGBT, chatGBT. Not just ours, other industries. AI can do a lot more. And we are using it without knowing it at times. That's the irony of it, right? There's many things that, ever, that AI little touches here, being your Google Assistant or your Alexa that you have at home. Or even sometimes, as we mentioned before, Housekeep, and I guess for Meta Energy users, quite happy to [00:24:00] use Facebook, which Meta does have quite a lot of AI in their processes attached to how you post and everything else, but as soon as you're saying you've got to use it for your own duty, oh no, I'm not doing that, because it's going to take my job away. So why not educate the industry? And I think that's the key thing. I think there's these wonderful programs, uh, run by governments, be it in the European Union, be it in international governments, even the KSA was, we discussed in, uh, the Recording fact that there is a technological support of these governments towards digitalization of hospitality being data security. There is an element of that, but is an true key industries. How can then bring that to the person who's gotta pick up the mobile, the cell phone, to do their own job, to understand that it's actually helping them. I think that's part of the process of part of the growth element. As soon as you bring that, the technology is wonderful. Yes, we are going to face challenges. [00:25:00] We are working in an industry that possibly has 60 to 70 or more percent old technology, and we're trying to connect new technology over layer. So why don't we start with the foundations? Look at what there is, take away what's not needed, and bring in the start. One of the new technologies that can help that, can integrate, can move forward and educate the buyers, the end users, because I think we've forgotten about the end user journey as we've only focused on the guest journey, but the two go side by side, personally for me. As soon as one of the great things is now, technology before was very hard to adapt internationally because you'd develop something from the US, may work in the UK or Nordics, but then to go across to the Middle East was difficult. Hit and miss, even in operational software, which is why I specialize in that technology. I think with Gen AI and others, we can actually speed those processes a lot faster because now we can bring in the [00:26:00] understanding of cultures and so on and bring that level of education into the end users to bring that technology to come in faster. At the same time, I think, again, we underestimate what the post pandemic hospitality Guests and end users are. The staff in a hotel from when it was in 2018 2019 to what it is now, it's a different world. It's a brand new team. So why not help? And we've seen that, and I just read an amazing article this morning during my morning coffee with Forbes regarding Claydor. Very much a siloed community that really does not work for a brand, they work for the kids. But the heart of hospitality is now. Driven a lot more technology and they are more engaging. I've seen that in the last project I did where the educational process was all about technology. It wasn't about you go in and see a restaurant and make sure you'd see this and seen that and you know where the best steak is. Learn to use technology [00:27:00] if you want to grow in your role, if you want to welcome the new guests. We have one of the most classical hotels in London, The Ritz. Every week, this year, they've had the influences of Zinn to promote The Ritz. You would never see that pre pandemic. And they are realizing, if institutions like The Ritz in London are realizing that they need to bring Such individuals to promote the property via technological advances of social media, influencing and so forth, we need to start waking up as partners. What do we need to do? Why? Someone's educated that marketing team that instead of spending so much on a Google advert may not be for them. But if you bring this in, so on and so on, and I think that's what we need to do. The advancement there. Yes, AI. The chatbots are that percentage, personally for me. I see a huge amount of potential in operational efficiency in the back of house, especially. I think there's a huge amount of potential. I've seen some tools come [00:28:00] up recently. that weren't used correctly. But again, if we explain it correctly, by not making it over complicated or over technical, and educate the human beings on why they're buying these tools to help them deliver the human aspect of hospitality, I think we'll succeed. If we stop being too technical, we either lose interest or we scare the people who are actually going to use and buy it. Because the last thing we want as we grow at the moment digitally in this industry is to sell software to an industry. That's just going to remain installed somewhere in the cloud, not even no longer a property, somewhere in the cloud that never gets used. The last thing you want is someone not there because you're just going to get a cancellation note as soon as the next CFO joins and goes, oh yeah, I've been paying this subscription, but where's the usage? Adam Mogelonsky: Zombie platforms, as I call them. Custodio Barreiros: Couldn't describe it better, to be fair with you, couldn't describe Adam Mogelonsky: So, you know, this, this whole thing with [00:29:00] education and for context, we're recording this on July 12th. Two out of three people on this call just got back from high tech where Vincent was there for pretty much the whole week in Charlotte. And right now we're getting all these newsletters from companies. And without me going on a diatribe where I want to draw the line is between Marketing and education, and I see a lot of marketing and not so much education. So very quickly, Custodio and Vincent, I'm looking to both of you for a quick statement on how you would advise hotel technology companies to focus on education. And then the education itself will be the marketing rather than just these blanket newsletters talking about their, tools or, blanket benefits like saving time. do you go about this? Please offer some guidance to the listeners here. Vincent Somsen: think just, just to go, uh, you know, bluntly [00:30:00] speaking, I think, you know, not one of the, maybe, you know, 50 companies that send me emails after HITECH connected on LinkedIn or send me a personalized message. And often I also got a, um, a, in the email, it sometimes, I think most of the time it says, as we discussed during high tech or following up on our conversation, while we did not have a conversation at all, you know, so, so it's, it's, it's first of all generic, it's wrong and it's not personalized. So I think just the basics, you know, personalizing to some extent, would, you know, go far, go far. that will be my first, uh, tip. Custodio Barreiros: 100%. I think you have an element of, even if the company has not spoken to you, to say that they've not spoken to you but they've looked at your profile, you may be interested in this, sorry I missed you. Problem being And I say this as a former salesperson, I hate keyboard warriors. And if there's a couple of my old managers, they know this. I think you [00:31:00] engage with the person, an email should be a confirmation of something or a request for something if they can't get hold of you. You send less emails, but you get a better ratio of, ratio of reply, personally. Because for me, sequence, and I, sales professionals, I apologize in advance. Sequence tools in our industry, bend them. Guess someone? Speak to an individual, just tell me one thing. As a hotel guest is a non-hospital tech provider. How many times have you seen an operator? How many seen the hotel staff behind the desk? Unless they're checking you in or the guest services, they're not behind the desk. Go and find who the person is. If you, and if we speaking to the two of you who attended hitech, and by the way, I received emails of even attending high tech. That's what surprised me. Uh, but I think they would look at your profiles and see you're traveling. So you're not always going to be by your laptops, by your computers. Make it personal, short message. [00:32:00] See what contact information you have on LinkedIn. So if you've put it there, you will approve to be connected that way, to connect that way. Ask for your time. There isn't anything more polite than asking. Not giving you a big spiel in the usual word, unsubscribe, because that's what you'll run to on that email. And I'm showing my age now, many won't even address an email to you. It's a generic one, it's just whatever's not there, hello, add them, it's We are the best at these, we do this, and we contact you for the best pricing. It's the worst thing we do to our industry. You don't even know what my budget is. You don't know what I would buy or speak to you about because I need five minutes of time. I'd like to get your advice on this tool. The shortest of sentences, okay, this person's thought about it. Maybe they haven't thought about that sentence because it's just a short sentence, but it's not a generic description of a product, but you don't have the time to read it. We emailing an industry that has got no time, no staff to [00:33:00] you telling the best thing I had recently, and I'm not sure if you guys will agree, but was a tech company. I did not work for them, so, uh, former employers, this is not about you guys, but the VP of sales said to me, but we get a great opening rate of emails. I said, but how many do you actually get replies to, or replies from? Because I'm not, if I'm a director of operations, if I'm a head of food and beverage, I'll open an email by accident, because I'm rushing between two places in a hotel. Opening rates of an email in our industry mean zero. How many have actually replied to me? But I can tell you one thing, if that salesperson took their time to go to that hotel, to the coffee area, around 10. 30 in the morning after the morning meeting, you'll get 304 replies. And I think a lot of the times is the companies that are selling in the industry, again, goes back to the pitfalls. Have they taken the time to research the industry and how the industry works, and how the individuals they want to target work? Because that's the other thing. The industry is great. Hospitality is here, [00:34:00] General Manager works this way, operations this way. Food and beverage that way. So what are you really targeting and who you what do you want your tech to be? Is that individual and their end users? How do they work? And I don't think anyone at high tech, maybe a few I'm not saying it's cause I've got loads of friends of high tech before, before they don't welcome me in Indianapolis next year. A lot of them do do that, but there are many of the newcomers. They also need to do that. Vincent Somsen: I think it all comes down to personalization and being, being unique and showing that you make an effort in order to connect. just a couple of weeks ago, uh, one of my clients, they got, uh, it's a startup. they got an, an RFP. You know, an RFP proposal, for a large hotel chain. So, that was, you know, doing in a couple of days. So over the weekends, they stayed in one of the hotels. They booked it right away for maybe, you know, 150, 200, for a test day. So they could be prepared for their pitch the following week. It's a very small investment relatively to the chance [00:35:00] to, you know, to win a contract. and those kind of, unique kind of personalization, uh, and engagement, you know, efforts are generally very appreciated. Custodio Barreiros: A hundred percent and I think it's needed a bit and Admittedly, that's the kind of stuff the team at Amtec used to make us do. And for me, it's one thing, even the hotel. The gentleman at the hotel where I was this morning is a guy I've worked with. In my past days at IHG, I still arrived at his hotel 15 minutes before, because I'd not been to this particular hotel, just to see the movement. Because I knew a little bit of what they were trying to address. Let me see if I can see that. And that's where I had my morning coffee was at his hotel, just to see how the staff, the engagement and so on. I think you have to be open and say, it's not always positive what you see. However, if you are sympathetic, We're that individual in service and we're here to try and address this and I did sit for my own eyes and now I understand your pain points. This is what I believe can be done or these are some of the ideas. Even if it's not within the software or the technology you want to [00:36:00] provide them or the services. Knowing that you are human to that person and understanding that and picking up those points because I'm sure your friends They've picked up a full turnaround of shifts, they've picked up the full processes. And that's the kind of thing, and let's be honest, that's the easiest thing to do. They possibly even enjoy it. Maybe a location they've not been before is an experience. And I think we need to do more and more of that. Let's provide this to our industry, personally speaking. I totally agree. But then again, with a name like mine, I get at them pronouncing my name correctly. He's got me. He's done the personalization today already. Thank you. Adam Mogelonsky: you know, I think this is a great place to end it because that advice is just so powerful about knowing the industry, having the understanding, and then having the empathy to understand who the people you're trying to sell to. As well as the people who are going to be using the actual product, who is not the same as the people who are actually signing the checks.[00:37:00] And, of your comments are just incredible about just how you can structure an email just by knowing who they are and then how that translates to in person and actually getting on site, tying it back to focusing on a specific market, like not going after two continents at once because you can't have a local sales team to actually go to the hotels and check them out first. So thank you both so much. This was an incredible conversation. so many different directions. And of course, if anyone has any follow up who's listening, both Vincent and, uh, Custogio would appreciate an email. And you mentioned, say, Hey, I actually listened all the way to the 40 minute mark. you mentioned this point near the end. Can we talk? And both of them will get a reply because you personalized the email. Vincent Somsen: One hundred Custodio Barreiros: 100 100 percent totally agree. Adam Mogelonsky: Vincent, thank you. Custogio. Muito obrigado. Custodio Barreiros: very much. Thanks, Vincent. Good to see you again. Good to see you, Adam, again. [00:38:00] Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Vincent Somsen: te obrigado. Adam Mogelonsky: Bye.