Latest / Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute / 94: Why You Feel Stuck: The Difference Between Sobriety and Real Change

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94: Why You Feel Stuck: The Difference Between Sobriety and Real Change · Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute

0:00
Hey, everybody. OK, so we probably you probably
0:02
heard a lot about, especially if you've been around this podcast
0:04
long enough, Hey, intensive treatments, outpatient,
0:10
inpatient, What are all these things?
0:12
Do they do they matter? My recovery, is there something
0:14
I'm missing? Is there something I haven't
0:16
done? So I have a special guest today
0:18
that I'm excited to introduce you to somebody that we've been
0:21
around in the recovery world a lot.
0:22
And I have for a minute now. I'm going to say a minute, a
0:24
little bit longer than a minute. So going to introduce our guest
0:28
and talk about, well some of this terminology is that maybe
0:32
would be nice to get some clarifications on.
0:38
Welcome to Beyond the Facade podcast.
0:40
I'm your host, Luke Gordon, and I'm thrilled to have you join me
0:43
in the space today. What we're going to be doing is
0:44
diving deep into the trials and triumphs and truths of seeking
0:48
authenticity. Becoming your true self isn't
0:51
about a single action or a moment.
0:53
It's a relentless pursuit, a commitment to self that reveals
0:56
the rich connection and meaning that our life has to offer.
0:59
So whether this is your first time tuning in or you're a
1:02
regular listener, know this what you're building here.
1:05
Goes beyond a. Conversation.
1:06
You're here to challenge, to change, and to celebrate the
1:09
incredible journey of becoming your authentic self.
1:12
Because when you dare. To show up fully.
1:14
The rewards are immeasurable, so welcome to be on the facade.
1:17
Let's get started. OK, everybody, so here introduce
1:23
you to Matt. Matt is got a few different
1:28
initials letters behind his name.
1:30
So he this is a very credible man.
1:32
I'm going to talk him up a little bit and then maybe he's
1:34
going to be uncomfortable with how off high I set the bar.
1:37
I don't know. But he's on the leadership team
1:39
for Begin again Institute based out of Colorado.
1:43
He's AC SAT therapist. He supports men through the
1:47
journey of healing and they have a pretty special program.
1:51
We've actually referred a few people to begin to get institute
1:55
and we've had the opportunity to actually help some men that have
1:58
come back from there as they entered back in.
2:00
We call step down care, some type of integrating back in the
2:04
life after getting that support and help again.
2:07
Matt, I respect the heck out of what you and your team do.
2:10
You and your organization, some really amazing things the
2:13
clients say after they leave you guys, but feel free to defend
2:16
yourself. Tell us a little bit about you.
2:19
Yeah, Thanks for having me, Luke.
2:22
It's awesome to be here. Yeah, so I'm the executive
2:25
clinical director. I've been there since 2019.
2:30
We see men through our 14 day intensive.
2:35
It's a trauma based intensive cohort base, which means all the
2:39
guys come in together and they all leave together.
2:41
So there's this kind of this bond that forms there.
2:44
And when you're treating something like sex addiction,
2:47
which is really intimacy issue, it's important to build that
2:53
into the treatment. And actually for us, it's kind
2:55
of centerpiece of the treatment of helping guys be vulnerable
3:00
and authentic and emotionally intimate with one another and
3:04
realizing that there's nothing wrong with them.
3:06
And so they can go and do that back in their regular life.
3:10
And you'll mix that in with really intentional intensive
3:14
clinical treatment and some educational aspects and, oh,
3:18
it's just a very dynamic thing that we've curated over the
3:21
years and really honed it in. And so yeah, we're, we're very
3:25
proud of it. And and yeah, so that's what I
3:28
do. Thanks.
3:30
How big is you guys team over there?
3:32
Funny story. So when I started in 2019, there
3:36
was maybe 3 or 4 of us. There were myself was, I was the
3:40
main therapist and we had two contract therapist, we had one
3:43
housing staff. And so it was a really, really
3:46
small team. Today we have over 40 staff
3:51
between therapists and housing team and admissions and
3:55
marketing stuff and just coaches.
3:59
And so it's probably more than that, but you know, I off the
4:04
top of my head, probably north of 40 in place.
4:06
So there's just been a lot of growth there and a lot of need
4:10
in the in the field that we do something different than other
4:15
places do. Like the two week format allows
4:19
folks to not have to quit their jobs, not have to like spin
4:22
their life into more chaos to go to 60 or 90 days of treatment,
4:27
but still get really quality care and really life changing
4:30
experiences. And so apparently there was a
4:33
need for that in our space and people have really responded to
4:37
it. Yeah, but.
4:38
They will talk a little bit more here in the second about what an
4:41
intensive actually does. But let's start off with a
4:44
problem first. From your experience, what is it
4:48
that there's so many men? What we're noticing, and tell us
4:51
what you're noticing is there's so many men that are doing the
4:53
work but still not experiencing real change.
4:56
So what's your experience with that of the need for different
5:00
levels of intervention and how do you guys come into that?
5:04
I think a lot of times guys are working really hard in recovery,
5:08
but they're aiming at the wrong target.
5:10
There's so many to do's in recovery and we forget that a
5:15
lot of folks are coming into this recovery space because they
5:20
were they got caught. That doesn't necessarily mean
5:23
that they were ready to change. It doesn't necessarily mean that
5:26
they were ready to go deeper into themselves and into their
5:30
own emotional experience. So while they may feel the
5:33
urgency to try to make changes, they haven't voluntarily or what
5:38
we would say you and I would say like surrendered to this
5:42
process. So I have to do's here.
5:45
I have meetings to go to, I have therapy appointments to go to.
5:48
I have couple stuff. I have books to read.
5:51
I have techniques to learn. And in the back of their mind,
5:56
some guys are trying to show up differently in their behaviors
6:01
without making changes in kind of the heart level or the
6:06
connection to themselves level. So what we see there is like a
6:13
guy, a lot of guys working really hard, but their goal
6:15
isn't to show up more present in their lives emotionally,
6:20
spiritually, physically, intellectually, their, their,
6:24
their goal is to make someone else happy who is currently mad
6:29
or to make someone less mad than they are.
6:32
And that is going to look like spinning your wheels.
6:35
And that is also going to look, this is what I tell guys all the
6:38
time. If my target is to make someone
6:41
else less mad at me, then really what I'm doing is farming
6:45
resentments. I don't know, burying these
6:49
seeds of all these activities, I'm watering them with all of my
6:52
time. They're coming up and pruning
6:55
all my resentments. Like, can't they see what I'm
6:57
doing? And then I'm trying so hard and
7:00
and they've not learned any other ways of coping.
7:02
So they're white knuckling and they're still angry and anxious.
7:05
And yeah, that's that. That's a dead end for a lot of
7:09
guys in their recovery process. All of that so much.
7:12
And the reason I love it is because the silent resentment,
7:16
the unknown resentment to so many men feel, they don't feel
7:18
like they can be resentful. They're the ones that hurt them
7:21
partner. But it's like seething out of
7:23
them how resentful they are. So I love that you're talking
7:26
about them actually, like pruning.
7:27
What's the word you used? Planting, watering, pruning, and
7:31
then ultimately harvesting your resentments in these moments of
7:36
blowing up or argument or defensiveness.
7:40
And there's nothing more frustrating for a guy that's in
7:45
early recovery who's getting busy but not getting deeper into
7:50
their own world to have their partners say to them, I'm not
7:54
seeing real change in your life. And there did it might as well
7:59
be like their hair got lit on fire.
8:01
What do you mean? I'm doing all of these things
8:04
and you're not seeing changes. I'm just seeing changes to your
8:08
schedule. But I'm not seeing changes to
8:10
your person, to your heart, to your ability to be present with
8:14
me, your ability to hold space for my anger and hurt, your
8:18
ability to take accountability and on and on and on and on and
8:23
to take the burden of managing recovery off of the partner.
8:30
So partners will come and have these kind of heart to heart
8:32
conversations, expecting that this person who's in those early
8:36
stages of recovery and doing to be able to be responsive to
8:39
them. But when we formed those
8:41
resentments, all we're doing is we've just got like ammo and
8:45
that we've loaded. And just like, how dare you
8:47
accuse me of going through the motions?
8:49
Look at all the time, money and energy that I'm spending to, to
8:53
try to get you to be nice to me again.
8:55
And when we hit that wall, like as a couple ship, like a lot of
9:01
partners are saying, what what do I do this?
9:05
What do I do now? This isn't this isn't working.
9:08
And then everybody told me that this would work and it's not
9:10
working. So what is define force, what an
9:13
intensive actually does? And can you, I don't know, I
9:16
think my ADHD brain loves to like really create a lot of
9:19
clarity around things that I've heard of that I don't
9:22
understand. OK.
9:24
What's inpatient? What's an intensive?
9:27
And then what does an intensive actually do?
9:29
I thought of four pieces that an intensive actually does.
9:32
But tell us, man, what is about that?
9:35
I hope I hit all four. I just don't know.
9:38
You know, what we do in our intensives is we're targeting
9:42
kind of three different types of guys in recovery.
9:46
We see men in our intensives. We have partner intensives for
9:49
betrayal trauma as well. But in our 14 day intensives for
9:52
men, we're targeting guys that are in crisis.
9:56
They've just been discovered. They don't know what to do.
9:58
They have to go away and do something, make a big splash
10:02
for. So let this other person know
10:04
that they're serious about getting better, but they don't
10:06
really know what to do next. And then there's this guy who's
10:09
been trying to find recovery for a while, but just as in caught
10:14
up in these relapses. And then there's this third guy
10:18
who has found sobriety but not recovery.
10:21
They're not acting out, but they're still dealing with
10:24
anxiety and rage and depression and conflicts in their
10:29
relationship, and they're coming to treatment to get in touch
10:34
with themselves on a deeper level.
10:35
Now, all three of those types of clients, what an intensive can
10:40
do is slow down. OK, we're slowing down the
10:45
experience. We're slowing down the pace of
10:48
things. We're taking away the access to
10:50
phones and the Internet, and we're unplugged.
10:53
We're as present as we possibly can be.
10:55
We're going to talk on the emotional level as much as we
10:58
can. We're going to unearth the
11:00
family of origin stuff that they don't even realize is, you know,
11:04
haunting their current relationships.
11:07
And we're going to teach them in a bi directional approach, like
11:11
what is going on within their reactivity around their traumas
11:16
and what they can do about it from a nervous system level.
11:19
That's going to be more effective to them than a whole
11:21
bunch of recovery plan activities that were put
11:25
together like spaghetti thrown at the wall just trying to see
11:28
what what'll stick. That's the kind of things that
11:31
our intensives offer folks. But the most profound part of
11:36
it, and the part of it that I enjoy the most is helping
11:40
disconnected, withdrawn, shut down, angry, reactive men become
11:49
tender, soft and compassionate towards themselves, towards the
11:55
younger parts of themselves, to their story as a child or young
11:59
person, And then be able to take that compassion home with them
12:05
as they they begin to be able to see their heart.
12:08
They have the ability to perceive other people's hearts
12:11
and they can become relationally more flexible and softer and
12:16
more attuned to other people in their lives.
12:19
Now that is what recovery looks like versus just sobriety.
12:24
What? Do you let me be the let me play
12:26
the skeptical part here real quick?
12:28
OK, How in the heck can you do that in two weeks?
12:32
That's a great question all. First outline for you what the
12:37
difference I think between a 14 day treatment and like a 3060 or
12:41
90 day treatment. Now I believe that there's
12:43
certain, there's certainly a case for long term treatment.
12:48
I think especially when you're talking about the nervous system
12:51
and some guys nervous systems are, so they're, they're going
12:56
at 100 miles an hour, OK, They're so out of whack that
12:59
more time away from acting out, more time away from the triggers
13:04
of their everyday life is going to be good for them.
13:07
Just time away from these things to let my nervous system key
13:10
down, shift down, down gear or whatever.
13:13
I think there's a case for that. But the problem with 306090 day
13:17
treatment is how we organize it and how we bill for it and how
13:22
insurance companies reimburse for it is we can only do so much
13:26
kinds of things per day. And so group therapy and
13:29
individual therapy specific interventions, like we can only
13:33
do those certain a certain amount of times per day, we can
13:36
only do, and honestly, it may be like a week, we get two group
13:43
therapy sessions and two individual sessions or something
13:46
like that a week. And then the rest of your time
13:48
is who knows what else, pottery or whatever.
13:52
And not to say that those things aren't good, it's just that
13:55
they're not always targeted for what's going on with this
14:00
specific client. I'll give you an example.
14:03
So I went and consulted with another treatment program.
14:06
I won't tell you which one, but they invited me to come and give
14:10
them feedback on their treatment narrative.
14:13
Like what are their clients experiencing from like A-Z and
14:16
their their time with that treatment center and while I was
14:21
there. And I won't, like, bore you with
14:23
all the feedback that I gave them.
14:25
But like, while I was there, they were taking clients that
14:29
are working on sexual addiction to a public pool to swim with
14:35
the alcohol house. And I said, what are you doing?
14:40
These folks are, yeah. I don't think the partners of
14:44
these men would appreciate this if they knew that they were
14:48
going to a public pool. When they're trying to work on
14:51
objectification and things like that, it feels like an
14:53
unnecessary exposure to things that might be triggering or
14:57
unsafe. And they said, well, we just
15:00
like we take the men, all the men in our programs, we take
15:03
them to the pool once a week. And it didn't really matter what
15:06
it was they were dealing with, whether it was alcohol or
15:09
cocaine or sexual addiction. And so that's what I mean when I
15:14
say these longer term treatment centers, they like you get
15:18
pushed into the milieu of whatever is going on and it's
15:21
not as targeted as they would like to make you think.
15:24
Versus a 14 day intensive where we're going to do therapy all
15:29
day, 8 hours a day, group individual, psycho Ed,
15:34
psychodrama. You're going to get so much
15:37
attention from therapist in the short period of time and we
15:41
don't have to end the work like you do in week to week therapy
15:45
where OK, 15 minutes is up. And now we've got to figure out
15:50
how to package all this back up so you don't leave the office in
15:53
a dysregulated emotional state. And now you got to go back to
15:57
work or you got to go back home and get on dad duty or whatever
16:01
it is. We can stay in that space
16:03
emotionally because there's accountability and because
16:06
there's supervision and because there's guys around all the time
16:09
that can check on them and and work on stuff.
16:12
And so we have a really solid container for all of that work.
16:17
So you couple of those things together and you can get a lot
16:21
of work done and even just a couple of days, it's really
16:26
phenomenal. The difference between a cohort
16:30
on Saturday when they come in and that first Tuesday, it's,
16:35
it's night and day sometimes in terms of their vulnerability,
16:38
their connection to one another, their ability to emote and
16:42
express their feelings. It's pretty profound.
16:44
Now, do I wish we had a third week with guys?
16:46
Sometimes? Absolutely.
16:48
Just because I just want to see more happen, you know, just
16:54
because I enjoy the work. But yeah, that that's does that
16:57
answer your question or did I it?
16:58
Does. Yeah, it does.
16:59
And there's so much to talk about with this and I like what
17:02
you're talking about. Tell me if I'm a betrayed
17:04
partner. I mean, because there's such an
17:05
investment resource investment in so many different ways to
17:10
attend an intensive. Or.
17:12
Treatment or anything like that. What's a fair expectation that
17:16
if I'm here's what I hear betrayed partners say, I can't,
17:21
I can't live with this guy anymore.
17:23
Like he's hurting me again and again and again.
17:25
Maybe if it's not with even relapses or slips, maybe it's
17:29
more of like he's hurting me just he's, he can't hold
17:31
anything for me. And we've have clients come to
17:35
us often like, hey, I want you to do a helper heal intensive.
17:38
I want you to do whatever intensive with us that are more
17:42
specialized. It's not what you guys are
17:44
doing. So it's not like you're going to
17:46
be staying on property or anything like that, but there's
17:49
this like, I need them to go because then there's change to
17:51
happen. So what's a fair expectation for
17:54
a partner, if they invest in this way, to expect from their
17:58
person coming back? Yeah.
18:00
I think one of the invisible benefits of doing this is to get
18:06
distance in that relationship, a little bit of space to let the
18:11
partners nervous system settle as well.
18:14
Like so, so much of that of recovery is that this friction
18:21
between the nervous system of the addict seeking recovery and
18:26
the partner. Like our nervous systems are
18:28
just rubbing up against each other all the time.
18:31
Like you would talk about in betrayal trauma.
18:32
Like this addict is both my safety person, my, my spouse, my
18:38
best was my best friend perhaps or whatever.
18:41
But now they're also this person who's disrupted my life and hurt
18:45
me deeper than I understood I could ever be hurt before.
18:48
And so I'm in this kind of relational bind with them where
18:51
I'm, I want to share myself vulnerably with someone, but the
18:56
person who I was closest to is the one doing the most harm.
19:01
And so, you know, I, I see, I tell the guys all the time, what
19:04
if you lived with your childhood abuser?
19:08
What would that do to your nervous system?
19:10
Even if they were like trying to be nicer to you?
19:13
So part of that expectation of a partner is OK, we're going to
19:17
get out of that friction space where my hyper vigilance and my
19:21
dysregulated nervous system is rubbing up against his ability
19:25
to try to show up differently. And it's not working out real
19:28
great. And there's a there's time away
19:32
from that guy to collect my thoughts, to help me ground and
19:37
settle in my nervous system and to think a little bit more
19:39
clearly about what recovery looks like for us as a couple.
19:44
The other part of that is, hey, we need, we might need some help
19:49
about navigating this. Maybe we need some time apart.
19:53
Maybe we need to sleep in separate bedrooms for a while.
19:56
And having that time away is a great way to introduce new
20:00
boundaries and to set up new. Recovery plans and new
20:05
structures in the relationship. It's a built in reset, OK, like
20:09
when you come home, this is what we're going to do differently.
20:12
And addicts are going to often times and some partners are
20:15
going to have super anxious responses to that.
20:18
If we separate, then we might as well call the divorce lawyer,
20:22
right? Or we're really keen on, on
20:26
talking to folks about is let's take advantage of this
20:29
manufactured separation so that we can settle our nervous
20:33
systems and reset. And if we need to go back into a
20:36
therapeutic separation, then this is kind of a natural
20:40
transition point to restructure that safety.
20:44
The third part is when they come home, guys that go through our
20:50
treatment, they're going to know why they're doing what they do.
20:54
There you go. And know the why and they're
20:57
know the how to manage it. Now the choice is going to be up
21:02
to them. We're never going to over
21:04
promise the partners and say, hey, we fixed it.
21:06
But this guy's going to know why he's doing what he's doing.
21:09
He's going to know what to do when he's triggered to go act
21:12
out. He's going to know why he's
21:13
triggered to go act out. I mean, why?
21:16
They're going to give him the ability to make choices, or at
21:19
least a clearer understanding of his ability to intervene and
21:25
make choices for himself. Essentially what I mean there's
21:28
he's going to be more on the hook than he's ever been because
21:31
he's going to know all this stuff about why he's doing this,
21:35
but the what and the how are there too.
21:39
And then we talked about it already.
21:41
The expectation is that if a guy comes to see us, that he's going
21:43
to go home with a deeper ability to sit with the partner in her
21:48
pain because he's been able to sit with his pain.
21:53
Yeah, I think about that. I don't know why it's this is
21:56
the imagery that's coming to my mind, but it reminds me of
21:59
something that wants to get in shape, that goes to a gym that
22:01
has a lot of equipment and he's going to get in shape.
22:04
But he's like, I don't know what I'm doing.
22:05
I don't. I'm just showing up on a showing
22:08
up on a shoulder press and now I'm now my neck hurts, right,
22:12
because I just lifted up too much.
22:14
And then what he does, he actually hire somebody that
22:17
comes in and shows them all the different routines that exist
22:20
and why you use machine from what way.
22:22
And there's there's an empowerment now going back to
22:25
the gym after that experience, There's a reason for it.
22:27
There's like a hope for maybe I can do this.
22:30
I don't know. That's the imagery that's coming
22:31
to my mind. That's such a good metaphor.
22:34
Have you used that before? Because that is so great.
22:37
No, I've never used that. Before, oh man, you got to write
22:39
that one down. That is so good because what we
22:41
get is guys come in all the time and they're like going to the
22:44
gym is stupid. I go to the gym, I'm not losing
22:48
any weight. I hurt all over the place.
22:51
This isn't working. And you're right.
22:53
They're like me at the gym. They're showing up to this piece
22:55
of equipment having no idea how to use it, like they're doing it
22:58
upside down or with the wrong. It reminds me of those funnier
23:02
videos where people use gym equipment in a really weird way.
23:05
Do you know what I'm talking about?
23:06
Yeah, exactly. And it's like, hey man, you
23:08
don't know anything about working out.
23:10
Maybe that has more to do with why you're hurting and you're
23:14
not losing any weight, but they think that they've tried all
23:17
these things before, but they've never had someone to walk
23:20
through it with them and help them understand the why.
23:24
So much of early addiction treatment is what we would call
23:30
like containment behavior containment, or we're trying to
23:35
get a handle on. Just stop doing the thing that
23:39
is damaging your relationships. And we have levels of success
23:43
with that. But if I don't know why I'm
23:44
doing it, the long term success of behavior containment is not
23:49
going to be good because I don't know why I'm triggered.
23:51
I don't know why I'm acting out. I don't know the things that are
23:54
upsetting to me and why those things are upsetting to me.
23:57
I talked about, I talk to people all the time that they're, they
24:01
think that they're acting out because of the relationship that
24:04
they're currently in, but that does not make any sense because
24:07
the addiction listed before that relationship.
24:09
So they have no idea how to use the equipment.
24:13
There, there's this other piece too, which is they come home
24:15
from the gym and their partner like, did you use the shoulder
24:18
press? And they're like, I didn't know
24:19
that existed And like, why did you know?
24:21
Why didn't you use it? I heard other people have good
24:22
results of that and they're just like upset about that
24:26
experience. And I, I think there's just such
24:29
a men early on are asking how long do I have to do this
24:33
journey for? Luke, I'm doing a console with
24:35
you. How long do I have to be in
24:37
Group for? And then that evolves to men
24:39
that are stuck there, that are doing it for years, not having
24:42
result that they need. And they're just.
24:45
A lot of tell people there's a different experience you can
24:48
have. You can go from resenting this
24:49
work to loving this work. And it's those people and guys,
24:53
I'm not a gym. I'm not the gym guy, by the way.
24:56
So I'm going to keep using this analogy.
24:57
But if you can see the rest of my body, you're like you.
24:59
Sure, he uses the gym, but I value it now like it's a
25:03
meaningful part of my life. Sure, it's painful to go there
25:06
at times, but I like it. So recovery doesn't have to be
25:09
something you always loathe and hate.
25:11
It can actually be something you really love and it's meaningful
25:15
and important and just moves into different parts of life.
25:19
Yeah, you're right. The gifts of recovery, we call
25:22
it, is not in the behavior containment, it's in the deeper
25:26
experience that you have with the present moment.
25:30
Addiction numbs us out. It narrows our field of vision
25:35
to where we're looking at life through a pinhole.
25:39
And when guys are really getting better, they are actually
25:45
beginning to appreciate life in the present moment.
25:49
The mundane beauties of life that have been so sanded down by
25:57
addiction. Because to the addicted brain,
26:00
nothing is interesting compared to the addiction.
26:04
Nothing is as exciting as the addiction.
26:08
Because my my brain and my dopamine receptors have been
26:13
trimmed and curated to really only receive the kind of
26:17
excitement and pleasure that I think that I want through these
26:20
specific sets of behaviors. And so when the gifts of
26:23
recovery begin to open up, it's like, oh, I've heard guys tell
26:27
me like, oh, I listened to a bird today for the first time
26:30
and I don't even know how long. And it's the sun coming in
26:33
through the trees. And when we're out here in
26:35
Colorado and this stunning kind of nature and going on hikes
26:41
every day as a part of the program, like guys are just
26:43
opening up the aperture of their experience and they're starting
26:48
to see that recovery is not about eliminating things from my
26:54
life. It's actually about building in
26:57
good and healthy and whole thing.
27:00
I love that. I love that hey, let's I don't
27:03
want to go negative and all here, but I have personal
27:07
experience with treatment and I want to OK, Matt, if you were to
27:12
have some family member coming to you and saying, hey, and it's
27:16
not going to be BAI, but they're like beginning to get an
27:19
institute, but they're saying, I got to go enter treatment.
27:21
My partner or I need to enter treatment.
27:24
Tell me what to look for. So if we're going to take BA out
27:28
of the equation, what is, or if BAI can say in the equation,
27:31
what do people need to know? Because I, I'm going to just let
27:34
all my parts talk right now. I am angry.
27:37
About some of the. Treatment centers out there that
27:40
take advantage of people that offer insurance and then they
27:43
tie people up and in ways that and give them a level of hope
27:47
where, you know, I, and again, I'm being pretty unfiltered
27:50
right now that are people that are in a tough spot, that are in
27:52
a lot of pain that are saying, hey, we can help.
27:55
And then they get out there and it's just what this is the this
27:59
is what I spent my time and energy on, but I don't even know
28:02
if people would even recognize that in that moment.
28:05
So what does good treatment look like?
28:06
If I was to go interview organizations and go where
28:09
should I spend time? Like what, what is a good
28:13
treatment intensive? What do they need to have there?
28:18
It's a great question. And to be fair, it is so hard to
28:23
tell that on the front end, like when you are in the admissions
28:30
kind of shopping period of this program or that program, almost
28:35
all of them are going to say the same things.
28:36
They're only use the same buzzwords.
28:38
They're trauma informed or individualized and specific to
28:45
you and your individual need. They're going to, they're going
28:48
to, they're selling it, right? What I have found to be true, if
28:52
not just us but like other programs that I respect, is that
28:56
they're unapologetically focused on what they're doing.
29:00
And if it's not a good fit for you, then it's OK.
29:05
I love talking to other leaders of other programs and saying
29:09
this is what we do. If you want to do that, come and
29:11
see us. This is what you're going to
29:13
get. But these are all the things
29:14
you're not going to get. So if you want those things,
29:17
then you should go somewhere else.
29:18
Those are the kind of programs that that I respect.
29:21
And then, OK, I'll use us if for example, and not fair, but we're
29:27
going to tell you that, hey, the cohort experience is going to be
29:30
a bigger deal for you than your one-on-one sessions.
29:33
And everybody's going to be like, how many one-on-one
29:35
sessions do I get? Well, this program only has
29:37
four. This program says they're going
29:38
to give me 6. It's like, hey, by the way, you
29:41
can get one-on-one sessions like at home.
29:44
So like what is different about this experience than your week
29:47
to week therapy? It's not going to be how many
29:50
individual sessions I'm going to get in this short period of time
29:53
is whether or not this is built into a story, a flow of
29:57
treatment that's going to take you somewhere.
29:59
And we're going to tell you, hey, you're going to end up
30:01
appreciating the group way more than your individual experience
30:05
because this is a intimacy problem and we need to share our
30:09
hearts with one another. And I need to talk about my
30:11
individual session with the group, not just leave it in that
30:14
room between me and the therapist, right?
30:16
So like treatment centers that are unapologetically, this is
30:20
what we do. If you want that thing, come and
30:23
see us. The other thing is, OK, if you
30:27
guys that are listening have ever explored Psychology Today,
30:31
you know what I'm talking about. There are therapists that have
30:34
25 or 30 areas of expertise. And I don't even know how that's
30:40
possible to not be true. So I tell folks, if you're
30:44
looking for a therapist on a search engine like that, find a
30:48
therapist that does 3 or 4 things.
30:50
They're being honest with you about where their expertise is
30:54
and they're not just trying to cast the widest net possible to
30:58
get any and all clients that they can.
31:00
OK, so that'll be my first advice.
31:02
The second advice would be to talk to alumni.
31:05
If the if you if you were in a conversation with a treatment
31:10
center, ask them if they have alumni that that are available
31:15
to speak to. Those folks are going to be able
31:18
to tell you way more about that experience than the front end as
31:24
admissions sales engine. And when can I jump?
31:27
In there on that, it reminds me of all the time, like I'm trying
31:31
to, and I've done it before. Full disclosure, full
31:34
therapeutic disclosures. Guys are scared to death alone
31:38
for obvious reasons. That's a that's a big part of
31:42
recovery. And my favorite experiences is
31:46
connecting with a man that's already gone through one right
31:48
and going this is what it's like.
31:50
This is my experience. And they just speak in a way
31:53
that just brings that, I don't know, validity to the
31:56
experience, though, but that reassurance like of hey, and
31:59
they're not going to because they went through it.
32:01
They're not going to sugarcoat it for you, right?
32:04
They're going to tell you what what's hard about it, what makes
32:08
you lose some sleep. They're going to validate you in
32:10
that experience. So anyway, that what comes to
32:12
mind when you think about that. It's like a guide, right?
32:15
The guy that's been there before that can tell you like where the
32:20
bend in the road is, you know, where the landmarks are.
32:24
I love working with alumni in that capacity because they want
32:29
they're like, how so folks that leave our program telling me
32:32
this all the time, like how come I only found you on the
32:35
Internet? How come I stumbled across this
32:37
by chance? Like more people should know
32:39
about what you guys do. And I said, hey, man, you're
32:42
part of the marketing department.
32:43
So go tell people that about what you experienced here,
32:48
because that's the that's a way more powerful way of coming to
32:52
understand what a treatment center is doing or what recovery
32:55
looks like is if you talk to somebody who's gone a little bit
32:58
further on the trail than you. And if you go around a bend and
33:04
there's this beautiful, stunning waterfall, which we have the
33:09
pleasure of having here in Colorado, the best guides don't
33:13
tell you about it. They say, hey, go up around that
33:16
corner, you're going to lie. Yeah, they do.
33:19
You know what you find, right? Because they don't want to steal
33:24
that moment from you. Yeah, that's beautiful.
33:26
Hey, man, I could talk to you for five more podcasts and maybe
33:30
we should, but I kind of I want to respect your time.
33:32
You're a busy man that has a lot to accomplish, a lot of people
33:35
to help. Any closing thoughts?
33:37
Closing messages that would be you want to share?
33:41
I would say like anybody who's interested in going down this
33:43
road or who is feeling stuck, you're going to have to break
33:47
the pattern of what you're doing to try something new.
33:50
So if you're feeling stuck, and I think this conversation today
33:53
is a lot about folks that are feeling stuck, I'm going to have
33:56
to do something different, not try harder and more of the same.
34:00
So whatever it is that you are tempted to try harder and do
34:04
more of the same, let's break that up, try something new,
34:08
rebuild that recovery plan because staying in that place of
34:13
that hamster wheel, just trying to run faster and faster at
34:15
things that aren't working or are not working.
34:17
So that's my my wish for all of your listeners that it doesn't
34:21
have to be us. Of course, we would be excited
34:24
about folks finding help and healing wherever they can.
34:26
So. Yeah, that's the what?
34:28
That's what I mean. I didn't set you up for that.
34:31
And that's what I believe the best clinicians, the best
34:34
organizations that are. So they go, I don't care where
34:37
you get help. It doesn't have to be here.
34:39
We just want to get the support that you need because they're
34:41
what they are is they're just confident in who they are.
34:44
It's just like any other. It's a human experience, but
34:47
they're confident in who they are.
34:48
They're not. There's not a scarcity mindset
34:50
there. So I hopefully you all heard
34:52
that from Matt. Anyway, it's good to spend time
34:55
with you, Matt. Thank you for your time.
34:56
So guys, you can find what happened.
34:58
Is it your website? People go to Matt?
35:00
Is that where people go? We'll put it in the show notes,
35:02
but yeah, tell us. Beginagaininstitute.com.
35:06
It's got all of our program offerings and our calendar and
35:10
how to get involved. And so that's a great place to
35:13
start, right? It's good to spend time with
35:15
you, yeah. You too, Luke.
35:17
Thanks. If you've been doing everything
35:22
you can to heal, listening to the podcast, reading the books,
35:24
going to therapy, and you still feel the impact of betrayal in
35:28
your body and nervous system, this message is for you.
35:31
The Revive and Thrive Somatic Healing Intensive is designed
35:35
for women who know that talking and processing have helped and
35:38
have been important, but also feel that something deeper is
35:41
still holding on. Betrayal doesn't just live in
35:44
your story, it lives in your body.
35:46
And if we don't address the physical imprint of trauma, we
35:49
may be missing the very thing that could help you take the
35:51
next step forward. My name is Hallie Roderick, and
35:55
as a professional and a woman who's walked this healing
35:57
journey myself, I'm honored to be part of a skilled and
36:00
compassionate team that holds this intensive.
36:02
Together we create a safe, supported, and deeply guided
36:05
environment where women can heal from the inside out.
36:09
You won't just learn about somatic healing, you'll
36:11
experience it through breath work, movement, nervous system
36:14
regulation, and embodied practices to help your system.
36:18
Finally, exhale. You can find all the details in
36:21
the show notes, and I would truly love the opportunity to
36:23
spend some time with you in person as we do this healing
36:26
work together. Hey, thanks for joining us
36:35
today. If this is something that.
36:36
You connected with I'd. Love to meet with.
36:38
You more and talk. About it So what you.
36:40
Can do is go to chooserecoveryservices.com.
36:43
Or check the show notes. And there what we can do is set
36:45
up a quick conversation we. Need.
36:47
Thanks so much for listening to Beyond the Facade where we
36:50
unmask the authentic self.