Latest / Buckeyes TomOrrow Morning / Catching Up With Former Ohio State Basketball Great Jason Singleton

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Catching Up With Former Ohio State Basketball Great Jason Singleton · Buckeyes TomOrrow Morning

0:00
Speaker 1: Welcome to Buckeyes Tomorrow morning for Sunday, March twenty third,
0:02
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Tom Moore. The Texas game in one
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Speaker 1: hundred and sixty days, the game against Michigan in two
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Speaker 1: show is a bonus show. It is an episode of
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Speaker 1: Buckeye Banter that is the newest podcast on our podcasting platforms,
0:27
Speaker 1: and it is a great show. I really love this show.
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Speaker 1: Seth Shaneers the host. You've heard him talk to a
0:32
Speaker 1: bunch of Ohio State football players. But it is March.
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Speaker 1: Calendar says so and when the calendar says March, we
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Speaker 1: got to talk a little basketball. Seth welcomes in Jason Singleton.
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Speaker 1: He was in who was part of one of the
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Speaker 1: most exciting, really unexpected seasons in Ohio State history. Jason
0:47
Speaker 1: began his career under Randy Airs during some of the
0:51
Speaker 1: darkest days of Ohio State basketball history. And ended up
0:54
Speaker 1: his career in the Final four. Great conversation here. Jason
0:58
Speaker 1: now working in athletics administration in the Columbus area. So
1:02
Speaker 1: a lot of interesting stuff here in this conversation. Think
1:04
Speaker 1: you guys really enjoy it. If you do, make sure
1:07
Speaker 1: you're subscribe to the Buckeye Banter podcast wherever you get
1:10
Speaker 1: buck Eyes tomorrow morning.
1:12
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to another edition of Buckeye Banter. We're
1:15
Speaker 2: telling the story of people who played for worked around
1:18
Speaker 2: Ohio State Athletics and hey, March Madness is right here,
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Speaker 2: and I'm gonna come with one of the guys, especially
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Speaker 2: in my lifetime, who is part of some great memories
1:27
Speaker 2: for me, Jason Singleton, member of the nineteen ninety nine Yes,
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Speaker 2: he was on a Final four team. Jason, thanks so
1:34
Speaker 2: much for taking some time.
1:36
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. I'm really really excited.
1:39
Speaker 2: Well, hey, you arrived at Ohio State ninety five behind
1:44
Speaker 2: Randy Randy Ayres, he recruited you. You're out of Southgate
1:48
Speaker 2: Aquinas High School. Is that right in Michigan?
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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, it's a suburb of Detroit.
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Speaker 2: How did Randy get you out of that state?
1:56
Speaker 3: Up north oh Man?
2:00
Speaker 2: It's a.
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Speaker 3: I guess you know, I'd say it's kind of a
2:04
Speaker 3: long story. I was recruited by most of the schools
2:10
Speaker 3: around the country, and initially Ohio State wasn't on my list,
2:15
Speaker 3: and I went to Aquinas High School. We want to
2:19
Speaker 3: stay championship with my sophomore year, we went twenty eight
2:22
Speaker 3: to Oer and that kind of I think, you know,
2:26
Speaker 3: a lot of schools were looking at me from there.
2:30
Speaker 3: You know, obviously Michigan, Michigan State, and I think you
2:35
Speaker 3: know Randy Aerors, he hit him and his staff just
2:39
Speaker 3: took a liking to me, and they did a really
2:41
Speaker 3: good job recruiting me coming to my high school. And
2:44
Speaker 3: they went to visit my mother, she was a principal
2:46
Speaker 3: in the Detroit Public schools. That they go visit her
2:48
Speaker 3: at her school, and you know that they were always
2:50
Speaker 3: just really professional. And my mom she raised me by herself,
2:54
Speaker 3: and she just thought that going to Ohio State, playing
2:57
Speaker 3: for Randy Aers, he would be a great role model
2:59
Speaker 3: for me and are just a good person to help
3:02
Speaker 3: me mature and grow into a young man.
3:05
Speaker 2: Well, and it's amazing. I mean a lot of things
3:07
Speaker 2: have been happening around the program at that point, but
3:10
Speaker 2: you come in with an eight person class. It was
3:12
Speaker 2: a huge class. I mean you and Nashaun Coleman and
3:16
Speaker 2: Damon Stringer, Jermaine Tate, Sean Stonrook, Jamie Bosley, those are
3:20
Speaker 2: some of the guys. I guess tell me a little
3:23
Speaker 2: bit about coming in with so many guys and kind
3:25
Speaker 2: of in nineteen ninety five, as you arrive on campus,
3:28
Speaker 2: are you are you? I assume you guys are very hopeful.
3:30
Speaker 2: I know, as a younger fan at the time, I
3:33
Speaker 2: was hopeful that that would kind of turn things around.
3:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, Randy Eiris kind of sold us on a new beginning.
3:43
Speaker 3: He showed us the plans for the Shackenstein Center of
3:46
Speaker 3: being built, and you know, we knew that they were
3:49
Speaker 3: putting a lot of emphasis on the basketball team and
3:52
Speaker 3: trying to change things. You know, coming from Detroit, I
3:55
Speaker 3: was able to see the Fab five. So in our
3:58
Speaker 3: minds and my my mind also thought that hey, we
4:02
Speaker 3: could be the next you know, Fab five. But you know,
4:06
Speaker 3: we had eight freshmans coming in, which was unheard of
4:09
Speaker 3: at that time, and knowing all the talent that was
4:12
Speaker 3: coming in, I thought that each guy could play and
4:15
Speaker 3: we could be pretty special.
4:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, and obviously, as most people know, it didn't quite
4:20
Speaker 2: turn out the way you wanted. But I guess tell
4:23
Speaker 2: me a little bit about that first season you arrive
4:26
Speaker 2: on campus, and I mean you did get your shriff
4:29
Speaker 2: playing times as a young guy. There are very few
4:31
Speaker 2: veterans on that team. I think rick you was still there.
4:34
Speaker 2: And but what was it like there as a freshman
4:36
Speaker 2: playing on that team.
4:38
Speaker 3: It was tough, you know, I think all freshmans is
4:41
Speaker 3: tough your freshman year and you have to you know,
4:44
Speaker 3: find that adjustment.
4:46
Speaker 1: Uh.
4:47
Speaker 3: You know, I was a small, skinny guy, and I
4:50
Speaker 3: always joke and say, you know, my first day coming
4:53
Speaker 3: to Ohio State, I'm out on the court and uh
4:58
Speaker 3: and Ricky Dudley steps out the locker room and I'm like,
5:02
Speaker 3: oh my goodness, this guy is is huge. I'm like,
5:06
Speaker 3: I'm not sure I'm ready for college basketball. But Ricky Dudley, uh,
5:10
Speaker 3: you know, played football and basketball at House State and
5:13
Speaker 3: went on and played football, uh in the NFL. But
5:17
Speaker 3: he was massive and just a big guy. So you know,
5:20
Speaker 3: you know, just physically trying to be prepared, uh, you know,
5:24
Speaker 3: is tough in the Big Ten. The Big Ten is
5:27
Speaker 3: always a strong conference and has been traditionally a more
5:32
Speaker 3: physical conference. Uh. It was also a tough adjustment with
5:37
Speaker 3: eight freshman's UH. Six out of the eight were from Ohio,
5:40
Speaker 3: so you know, being from from UH, from the state
5:43
Speaker 3: up north, it was a it was a tough for
5:46
Speaker 3: me to uh. You know, I just felt like I
5:48
Speaker 3: was always, you know, treated differently. And you know, I
5:55
Speaker 3: think the coaches were were being tough on me because
5:59
Speaker 3: they what I had in me, and they were trying
6:01
Speaker 3: to pull out the best in me. And at the
6:03
Speaker 3: time I didn't realize it, but you know, as I grew,
6:07
Speaker 3: I understood what they were trying to pull out of
6:10
Speaker 3: me and what they were trying to get out of
6:11
Speaker 3: being by being tougher on me.
6:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, And certainly the old adage of coach is going
6:16
Speaker 2: to yellowtick guy he thinks still has something inside, you know,
6:19
Speaker 2: like if they thought you weren't up to the task,
6:21
Speaker 2: they would just kind of move on to the next guy,
6:23
Speaker 2: I guess, you know. And I remember I was actually
6:26
Speaker 2: a senior in high school in the ninety six ninety
6:29
Speaker 2: seven season, and I remember coming to a game in
6:32
Speaker 2: like early January. I had actually just got my acceptance
6:35
Speaker 2: letter to come to HIA State as a student. I
6:37
Speaker 2: remember my dad bringing me up and we went to
6:39
Speaker 2: a game, and I just remember that was like an
6:42
Speaker 2: interesting turning point because in that season, Nicey six ninety seven,
6:45
Speaker 2: it just felt it felt like at that time as
6:47
Speaker 2: a sophomore for you, there was there was a little
6:50
Speaker 2: bit in that team, and then things just didn't go
6:52
Speaker 2: your way and that became a long season as well.
6:57
Speaker 2: What about year two? I guess if you could encapsulate
6:59
Speaker 2: what it was like for you then, because you're kind
7:01
Speaker 2: of more established now, but it's still ended up being
7:04
Speaker 2: a disappointing season and coach Airs ends up being fired.
7:07
Speaker 3: Yeah. You know, the crazy thing is we always had
7:12
Speaker 3: the talent. We just couldn't put it to put it together,
7:15
Speaker 3: and we couldn't just quite get over the hump. I
7:19
Speaker 3: attribute a lot of it too. We had so many
7:22
Speaker 3: young guys and we didn't have enough leadership, and we
7:28
Speaker 3: didn't have you know, older guys who had been there
7:30
Speaker 3: for four years that could get us kind of on track.
7:36
Speaker 3: It was almost kind of like the inmates were running
7:38
Speaker 3: the ship.
7:38
Speaker 2: You know.
7:39
Speaker 3: We just had too many young guys and too many
7:42
Speaker 3: bad decisions and just not enough maturity. Uh, we were
7:47
Speaker 3: just waiting for someone to be a leader. To take
7:49
Speaker 3: the lead and kind of get us over the hump.
7:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember there were times when you thought, you know,
7:55
Speaker 2: you know here in Ohio we knew Damon Stringer. I
7:58
Speaker 2: watched them play in state chaminampionship games and things like
8:01
Speaker 2: that at Saint John Arena and he was there. And
8:04
Speaker 2: then Jermaine Tate. I mean I was reading up on
8:06
Speaker 2: this in preparation for this interview, and the only thing
8:08
Speaker 2: knock against Jermaine Tate when he came in was just
8:10
Speaker 2: so thin that that to your point earlier, going up
8:13
Speaker 2: against big ten, big men was going to be tough
8:15
Speaker 2: for him, but he was a great talent. And then
8:18
Speaker 2: even Sean Stone Rook you know, could pull down rebounds
8:21
Speaker 2: like crazy from nearby Westerland, North. So yeah, it was
8:24
Speaker 2: always like kind of like, oh, it's here, it's here,
8:26
Speaker 2: it's here. But coach Airs didn't get the chance to
8:29
Speaker 2: finish that out. What was what was kind of that
8:32
Speaker 2: like for you as a player, And did you have
8:34
Speaker 2: a decision to make because it wasn't a transfer transfer
8:37
Speaker 2: portal era where you could just walk over to another
8:39
Speaker 2: school and play right away. But I'm sure when he
8:42
Speaker 2: lost his job, did you evaluate that at all? Did
8:44
Speaker 2: you think about what your next move might be?
8:47
Speaker 3: Uh? I did I think each year? You know, it
8:51
Speaker 3: kind of crossed my mind. But you know, my family
8:54
Speaker 3: was was deeply rooted in education and really knew the
9:00
Speaker 3: importance of getting a degree from Ohio State.
9:05
Speaker 2: You know, I was.
9:07
Speaker 3: You know my mom, she's an educator and grew up
9:09
Speaker 3: in Detroit. She just valued education. And I didn't want
9:14
Speaker 3: to chase basketball and go to a different school every
9:18
Speaker 3: year just for the sake of basketball. You know, my
9:22
Speaker 3: goal was to win and be successful in basketball. But
9:25
Speaker 3: I also knew that, you know, basketball ends, and there's
9:29
Speaker 3: life after basketball, and having a degree from Ohio State,
9:32
Speaker 3: living in Columbus, I would be set forever.
9:37
Speaker 2: Actually, I want to divert a little bit then the
9:38
Speaker 2: point you just rose. I've had that conversation with friends
9:41
Speaker 2: of mine when we talk about the transfer portal and
9:44
Speaker 2: things like that, And it's very unique. Columbus is a
9:46
Speaker 2: big city. Not every college, not every big college is
9:49
Speaker 2: in a big city like metropolitan area like Columbus. But
9:53
Speaker 2: you don't have to look too far you yourself. You
9:55
Speaker 2: look around Columbus, you see former O higher state football
9:58
Speaker 2: and basketball players doing well in business, doing well in
10:01
Speaker 2: their community, you know, giving back to their community while
10:04
Speaker 2: also kind of, you know, being embraced. I would say, like,
10:07
Speaker 2: you know, if you're a long time if you're a
10:09
Speaker 2: three or four year player at a higher state, you
10:11
Speaker 2: can come back and live here, can't you.
10:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. You know, everything that you learn in sports,
10:17
Speaker 3: those are all transferable skills to your professional life. And
10:21
Speaker 3: you know, I was always a blue collar guy, worked
10:23
Speaker 3: really hard, and I just take those same principles and
10:27
Speaker 3: apply them to my professional world. Ohio State has changed
10:32
Speaker 3: so much since I was in college. I mean it's it's, uh,
10:36
Speaker 3: you know, one of the fastest growing cities in the country.
10:40
Speaker 3: So many people come to the house state for school
10:42
Speaker 3: and they stay here. I mean it's a it's a
10:44
Speaker 3: great place to live. The cost of living is so
10:47
Speaker 3: much lower than in many places. The school systems are great,
10:51
Speaker 3: the city is great. I mean, it's just a wonderful place,
10:54
Speaker 3: wonderful place to live. And once people come here, uh,
10:57
Speaker 3: they don't want to leave. And if you're a buck
10:59
Speaker 3: eye said that even that much more special.
11:02
Speaker 2: It doesn't. We'll get to that, Pneumona. You worked for
11:05
Speaker 2: a high estate for several years and you're still here.
11:06
Speaker 2: In Columbus, so obviously you're a testament to that. Tell
11:10
Speaker 2: me a little bit about the hiring of Jim O'Brien.
11:13
Speaker 2: I was on campus that summer as I was going
11:15
Speaker 2: to be a freshman, and I remember I worked on
11:18
Speaker 2: campus actually in office, so I got here early, and
11:21
Speaker 2: I remember just some of the stories about, you know,
11:24
Speaker 2: Jim O'Brien was coming in and he was not gonna
11:27
Speaker 2: suffer any fools, right, he was going to make sure
11:29
Speaker 2: you guys were doing what was right. If you guys
11:31
Speaker 2: ended up leaving the program that summer, what was it
11:35
Speaker 2: like for you and kind of was it was it
11:38
Speaker 2: hard for you to kind of adjust to the new coach?
11:41
Speaker 3: Uh, you know, it was uh we didn't really know
11:47
Speaker 3: what to expect. A Schooney Pant had also transferred over,
11:53
Speaker 3: so when Schooney came in, he was able to kind
11:56
Speaker 3: of talk to us and tell us, you know, what
11:58
Speaker 3: the new coaches were like. So that kind of eased
12:01
Speaker 3: a lot of people's uh nerves. But coach errors and
12:07
Speaker 3: Jim O'Brien were just drastically different. And Jim O'Brien when
12:12
Speaker 3: he came in, I remember I think we were sitting
12:15
Speaker 3: in the locker room, you know, watching TV and just
12:19
Speaker 3: in the little lounge area, and coach o Brian just
12:23
Speaker 3: came and sat right in the middle of us and
12:25
Speaker 3: just started watching TV with us. And we were we
12:28
Speaker 3: were all shocked, like, okay, you know, what are you doing?
12:32
Speaker 1: Uh?
12:33
Speaker 3: But he felt comfortable. He was he was engaged, and
12:37
Speaker 3: he was really just interested in, you know, what we
12:40
Speaker 3: were into. And he just seemed like he really cared
12:43
Speaker 3: about us. And he was also a genius when it
12:47
Speaker 3: came to basketball, running plays and and I think, you know,
12:52
Speaker 3: for me personally, I like to be stimulated mentally, and
12:56
Speaker 3: he was able to really show me at and O's basketball,
13:01
Speaker 3: and I just wanted I just wanted more. I was
13:03
Speaker 3: like a sponge and and the majority of our our
13:06
Speaker 3: team was that way. And I just felt like we
13:08
Speaker 3: just kept getting better and better on the court and
13:10
Speaker 3: off the court, which helped us, uh with our run.
13:14
Speaker 2: You mentioned when you came you were a bit of
13:16
Speaker 2: an outsider. You you weren't from Ohio. I remember that
13:19
Speaker 2: being a big deal when they hired coach O'Brien from
13:23
Speaker 2: Boston College, and certainly he had the accent that was
13:26
Speaker 2: quite a bit different, right, And Scooney brought that as well.
13:28
Speaker 2: That was that was entertaining to hear Scooney talk and
13:32
Speaker 2: and tell stories and things like that. But what what
13:35
Speaker 2: was that like to have an outsider come in and
13:37
Speaker 2: and then you know, I guess him sitting down with
13:40
Speaker 2: you maybe maybe maybe stuff like that makes you want
13:43
Speaker 2: to play for him and prove that he belongs and
13:46
Speaker 2: things like that. I don't know did that ever go
13:48
Speaker 2: through your mind at all or how how he was
13:50
Speaker 2: coming in from the outside.
13:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was definitely an East Coast invasion. They the
13:57
Speaker 3: whole company staff was from the East Coast.
13:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, Rick Boy, just Paul being CARDI.
14:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, itsad and you know, talking listening to them talk,
14:05
Speaker 3: it sounded like another language almost. Then you had, you know,
14:09
Speaker 3: Schooney coming in, he's from Boston. Also, you had Brian
14:11
Speaker 3: Brown from New York, Will Delhi from New York. You
14:14
Speaker 3: had you know, all these New Yorkers and the East
14:17
Speaker 3: Coast and it literally was just like you was hearing
14:21
Speaker 3: another language in the locker room. But it was all good,
14:26
Speaker 3: genuine people and everyone just had the same common goal
14:29
Speaker 3: where we wanted to turn things around and we want
14:31
Speaker 3: to win right now, you know it wasn't we're going
14:34
Speaker 3: to wait three years, four years, five years. We knew
14:37
Speaker 3: we had the talent. We just wanted to try to
14:40
Speaker 3: do whatever we could to win. I want to do
14:42
Speaker 3: whatever I could to leave a legacy behind as well.
14:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, now this is your junior year you're going into
14:48
Speaker 2: at that point, And I remember even I went to
14:51
Speaker 2: get my student tickets right, and I'm in the Saint
14:54
Speaker 2: John Arena and you guys are practicing, and you can
14:56
Speaker 2: hear Coach O'Brien just yelling at Ken Johnson and sorts
15:00
Speaker 2: of things. I'm sure you could tell me stories about
15:02
Speaker 2: those practices, but I guess because Schooney had to sit
15:05
Speaker 2: out though. The legend was that Sconey was grabbing a
15:08
Speaker 2: hold of four other guys and playing against you guys
15:11
Speaker 2: in practice.
15:12
Speaker 3: What was that like?
15:14
Speaker 2: And obviously he was a leader, but he couldn't step
15:17
Speaker 2: on the foe and play again. Not transfer portal, you
15:19
Speaker 2: had to sit out a year.
15:20
Speaker 3: So at that time we had Schooney who had to
15:23
Speaker 3: sit out a year. We still had uh Damon Stringer
15:26
Speaker 3: who had a stress fracture in his back, so we
15:29
Speaker 3: literally did not have a point guard. But you know,
15:32
Speaker 3: that whole year I think with One of the things
15:37
Speaker 3: I always liked about the coaches is our practices were
15:41
Speaker 3: really tough, and uh he a lot of times he
15:45
Speaker 3: would mix it up and we would have you know,
15:47
Speaker 3: just you know, they would have Damond Stranger and uh
15:51
Speaker 3: Schooney on the same team, and you know, it would
15:54
Speaker 3: just be battles. And I think we knew that we
15:58
Speaker 3: were good, but we just didn't have a point guard.
16:01
Speaker 3: And that was, you know, another losing season. It was
16:04
Speaker 3: tough the whole year. That's when we had Mike Red also,
16:09
Speaker 3: and you know, Mike did a great job. He came
16:12
Speaker 3: out and he was able to blossom and grow, but
16:18
Speaker 3: we were just missing a point guard. And the following year,
16:22
Speaker 3: once school he was able to play. Once we had
16:24
Speaker 3: a point guard, it was a rap.
16:26
Speaker 2: You know, we were yeah, there to go. Well listen,
16:29
Speaker 2: so you go eight in twenty two. That year, it's
16:31
Speaker 2: the last year at Saint John Arena, Michael Red scored
16:34
Speaker 2: twenty two a game. As a freshman. He stuck with
16:37
Speaker 2: his commitment to Ohio State. From West High School here
16:40
Speaker 2: in town, you end up playing Kansas. Kenny Gregory was
16:42
Speaker 2: from in town too, and he was a freshman at
16:44
Speaker 2: Kansas I remember you played like a midnight Eastern. I
16:47
Speaker 2: had to stay up and watch you guys, and I
16:49
Speaker 2: just remember barely staying awake and you're in that game,
16:52
Speaker 2: and you think about the fact that you mentioned the
16:54
Speaker 2: point guard. God bless Carlos Davis, right, I mean, he
16:57
Speaker 2: did what he could. And I remember, you know, games
17:02
Speaker 2: against teams like Michigan who were just loaded still back then,
17:06
Speaker 2: and Michigan stayed as tom Izzo was starting to bring
17:08
Speaker 2: his guys up and along. And my college roommate still
17:11
Speaker 2: is mad at me because I'm a big Reds fan.
17:14
Speaker 2: And one time I went to a Reds game and
17:15
Speaker 2: they were down like eleven to three, and my stepdad
17:18
Speaker 2: made me leave, and then they came back and won.
17:21
Speaker 2: So like, I wouldn't leave your games, like you lost
17:23
Speaker 2: by thirty points to one or two of these teams,
17:26
Speaker 2: Jason and I wouldn't leave. And my roommate was like,
17:29
Speaker 2: We've got to get back to the dorm, let's go,
17:32
Speaker 2: and I'm like, no, we're not leaving. But it was tough,
17:35
Speaker 2: wasn't it. It was just that was a tough go
17:37
Speaker 2: that year eight and twenty two.
17:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was tough. But I think the coaches and
17:43
Speaker 3: the players knew that we had the talent, you know,
17:46
Speaker 3: and we had the pieces. We just literally we did
17:50
Speaker 3: not have a point guard. Carlos Davis. He was a
17:54
Speaker 3: you know, a two. He was more of a shooting
17:57
Speaker 3: shooting guard, and they moved them over to the point.
17:59
Speaker 3: You know. I think he was serviceable and did a
18:01
Speaker 3: good job through the year, but you know, he played
18:03
Speaker 3: out a position, and we knew what we had in practice,
18:08
Speaker 3: and it was just tough going through a whole year
18:12
Speaker 3: with having both of your point guards out.
18:15
Speaker 2: But hey, just on a side note, you know when
18:19
Speaker 2: when you're not an athlete and you come to Ohio
18:20
Speaker 2: State such a big school, right and all that, and
18:22
Speaker 2: sometimes you see athletes walking around campus. You were my
18:26
Speaker 2: first guy because I was on South campus and I'll
18:29
Speaker 2: becoming tour from class and you would walk past me
18:31
Speaker 2: in your Detroit Tigers hat and you were that about
18:34
Speaker 2: every day, which was pretty cool, I thought. But I
18:37
Speaker 2: remember seeing you on campus and things like that. That
18:39
Speaker 2: was a big deal to me.
18:41
Speaker 3: Wow, I can't believe. Yeah, I stayed on a north
18:44
Speaker 3: campus in Haverfield and it was most of the guys
18:48
Speaker 3: stayed in the towers back then. That was like the
18:50
Speaker 3: athletic dorm for the football players the basketball players. But
18:56
Speaker 3: me and Jermaine Tate, we both stayed together and on
19:00
Speaker 3: a North campus. And yeah, I'm still, you know, a
19:05
Speaker 3: Detroiter forever, and I still represent the Tigers, the Pistons,
19:09
Speaker 3: Red Wings, Lions. So uh, you know, as much as
19:13
Speaker 3: I'm a Buckeye, I'm still Detroiter at heart.
19:17
Speaker 2: In my neighborhood. Actually, Ryan Perryman from from up by Detroit,
19:22
Speaker 2: he lives here. He played at Dayton and he was
19:25
Speaker 2: about your eye. He led the nation and rebounding around
19:27
Speaker 2: that time. And but but he rocks the Detroit but
19:30
Speaker 2: also the Michigan stuff all the time. It's it's a
19:33
Speaker 2: little gross.
19:34
Speaker 3: Yeah. I know Ryan real well, we played against each
19:36
Speaker 3: other in high school. He was he was a good player.
19:39
Speaker 3: He was, he was really good. Uh. He's I think
19:44
Speaker 3: a year maybe a year or two older. Uh, but
19:47
Speaker 3: had a good career at Dayton, good career overseas. And
19:50
Speaker 3: I'm you know, happy he's here in Columbus hopefully his
19:55
Speaker 3: his kids and family for them.
19:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, very good, very good here in Gehanna school. All right,
20:01
Speaker 2: so you get to your your last year, Well, tell
20:05
Speaker 2: me a little bit about closing out Saint john Arena.
20:07
Speaker 2: Did that mean anything to you as a player, But
20:08
Speaker 2: then also it gets a reputation now as not being
20:12
Speaker 2: the best atmosphere, But but when when the Shot and
20:16
Speaker 2: Scene Center opened, it was a big deal, wasn't it.
20:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean Saint John's was was unbelievable. I think
20:23
Speaker 3: Saint John's. The atmosphere was great. Fans were on top
20:26
Speaker 3: of you. The stands went straight up, so you know,
20:31
Speaker 3: it just felt like they were closer. It was more intimate.
20:36
Speaker 3: The acoustics in there. It got really loud and it
20:40
Speaker 3: was great, I think. Uh, the exciting part about Saint
20:44
Speaker 3: John's for players was the locker room. I mean the
20:47
Speaker 3: locker room was just so nice when you compare it
20:49
Speaker 3: to Saint John's locker room. Going into the shot, you know,
20:53
Speaker 3: we were excited. The practice gym, the practice facility at
20:56
Speaker 3: that time, it was probably the best arena in the country,
21:00
Speaker 3: and having a practice gym it was it seems as
21:04
Speaker 3: though it was very similar to Unite the United Center
21:07
Speaker 3: in Chicago. Uh, and then just going into the shot,
21:12
Speaker 3: I think there was so much excitement around the new arena,
21:16
Speaker 3: and then our teams was starting to get a little
21:19
Speaker 3: buzz starting to win. It seems as though we were
21:23
Speaker 3: selling the selling the shot out for the most of
21:25
Speaker 3: the most of our Big ten games. And it was
21:28
Speaker 3: really really exciting. You know that they had lots of
21:32
Speaker 3: graphics and things throughout the arena in the locker room,
21:35
Speaker 3: so of course, uh, the glistening glamor of the shot
21:39
Speaker 3: was great. Uh, and it's still a beautiful place to play.
21:43
Speaker 3: But you know through I played three years in Saint
21:45
Speaker 3: John's and UH have lots of great memories in Saint John's.
21:49
Speaker 3: When I go to the skull sessions for football, it
21:52
Speaker 3: brings me gives me chills, Uh, being in there and
21:55
Speaker 3: hearing the hearing the fans cheer and and go crazy.
21:59
Speaker 2: Well, one of the next it is for me. That
22:02
Speaker 2: was my sophomore year, your your senior year. The one
22:05
Speaker 2: of the negatives for me was they put student radio
22:07
Speaker 2: up in the hockey press box and so I'm looking
22:09
Speaker 2: down at you guys like with binoculars like it was.
22:12
Speaker 2: It was. It was an interesting situation to call a
22:15
Speaker 2: game from that high up.
22:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they had they were still trying to figure
22:20
Speaker 3: everything out that they made a lot of mistakes and
22:22
Speaker 3: hopefully they that they were able to fix things by
22:26
Speaker 3: now well.
22:27
Speaker 2: And one of the problems too, was you'd come off
22:29
Speaker 2: to pretty rough seasons and I know the students didn't
22:32
Speaker 2: quite clamor to get the tickets. Yeah, and so that
22:35
Speaker 2: first year with students was a little rough. And you're right.
22:39
Speaker 2: I mean, as you guys played through that year, you
22:41
Speaker 2: go from eighteen twenty two to twenty seven and nine.
22:43
Speaker 2: All right, so like, well, I want to take you
22:45
Speaker 2: through that season a little bit. But that was that
22:48
Speaker 2: was one of those deals where you know, you open
22:49
Speaker 2: up a new basketball arena, it's not quite the same
22:52
Speaker 2: as like the romanticism around a baseball ballpark, right, it's
22:56
Speaker 2: it's it's you know, an indoor basketball arena is a
22:58
Speaker 2: little different and and I think it just took a
23:00
Speaker 2: little while, but you're right, the way you guys played,
23:03
Speaker 2: people just start flocking. I mean from start to finish.
23:07
Speaker 2: That was pretty amazing to see, like all of a
23:09
Speaker 2: sudden people were caring again, right about a higher state basketball.
23:13
Speaker 3: Yeah. It kind of reminded me that when you're watching
23:16
Speaker 3: the oh Man with the Cleveland Indians movie, while what
23:21
Speaker 3: was wild thing? Oh?
23:21
Speaker 2: Major league?
23:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, major league and people in the standard saying, hey,
23:26
Speaker 3: you know these guys are there that bad? You know
23:29
Speaker 3: that's right?
23:30
Speaker 2: I mean, even if you didn't go to the final four,
23:32
Speaker 2: which we're gonna get to in a minute, that season
23:35
Speaker 2: was such a good turnaround. And I guess when did
23:39
Speaker 2: you know? Because I'm gonna take you through a few
23:41
Speaker 2: points in that season where it's like, I don't know,
23:43
Speaker 2: maybe they don't, maybe they are, maybe they're not. When
23:46
Speaker 2: did you guys? As players? Was it just because you're
23:48
Speaker 2: getting schoony and now you feel like it was like
23:49
Speaker 2: that last piece, like for Tetris to lock that in
23:53
Speaker 2: and be what you needed.
23:55
Speaker 3: Well, for me, I think I was a senior and
24:00
Speaker 3: I had three losing seasons and I felt as well,
24:03
Speaker 3: I'm gonna play so hard. There's no way that we're
24:05
Speaker 3: not going to go to a postseason, like we're gonna
24:09
Speaker 3: go to the n I T We're gonna go somewhere.
24:12
Speaker 3: We are going to be playing. And again, we knew
24:16
Speaker 3: that we had the talent, and I knew that we
24:18
Speaker 3: would make the tournament, or we would at least make
24:21
Speaker 3: n I and I had no idea would go to
24:24
Speaker 3: the final four. But talent wise, you know, we knew
24:29
Speaker 3: that we had a really special team, and I realized
24:32
Speaker 3: that the coaches were just brilliant. And you know, coach
24:36
Speaker 3: of Brian, I feel like throughout the season he probably
24:40
Speaker 3: won you know, a five or six games just from
24:43
Speaker 3: out coaching the other coach. We had all the pieces.
24:46
Speaker 3: We had the talent, we had athleticism, we had shooters,
24:49
Speaker 3: we had defenders. I mean Ken Johnson, I knew if
24:54
Speaker 3: I got beat Kim was just gonna block somebody shot.
24:57
Speaker 3: I mean, we literally had had it all. And you know,
25:01
Speaker 3: I was just waiting for us to figure out, Okay,
25:04
Speaker 3: when is this gonna click? And you know, I think
25:06
Speaker 3: the Big Ten there's a lot of teams that were
25:09
Speaker 3: ranked that year. The Big ten was strong, and we
25:12
Speaker 3: were you know, we were beating a lot of those
25:14
Speaker 3: teams at home, and we were beating them on the road.
25:16
Speaker 3: And I think we knew, Okay, if we can beat
25:19
Speaker 3: these teams in the Big Ten, you know we can
25:22
Speaker 3: we can play with anyone. And then also we went
25:24
Speaker 3: to uh uh Puerto Rico.
25:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we'll get to that in a minute. Yeah
25:31
Speaker 2: you got you won that tournament that's the Puerto Rico
25:33
Speaker 2: Holiday Classic. It was called Yeah, and you beat Old
25:36
Speaker 2: Miss a couple other teams, but you win that tournament
25:39
Speaker 2: that was kind of big. Listen, it's just you and
25:41
Speaker 2: Nashun Coleman at this point from that big recruiting class,
25:44
Speaker 2: that's all that's left. And as you as a senior,
25:47
Speaker 2: and I know Nashan was dealing maybe with a knee
25:49
Speaker 2: or something like that, but you go up to Toledo
25:52
Speaker 2: a homecoming for him close to where you grew up.
25:55
Speaker 2: You lose a tough one by a point, and even
25:57
Speaker 2: at that point, I remember that was like I think
26:00
Speaker 2: that was like the football like league championship game weekend,
26:05
Speaker 2: and I still remember that that Toledo lost being kind
26:09
Speaker 2: of like a lot of people didn't recognize they like
26:11
Speaker 2: didn't know what happened, maybe because we're it was right
26:13
Speaker 2: around finals and we you know a lot of the
26:15
Speaker 2: students didn't really know that much about it. But you
26:17
Speaker 2: lose that game, but you turn around and you win
26:19
Speaker 2: the Holiday Classic. I guess early in the season, you know,
26:24
Speaker 2: I'm a diehard, so I'm gonna be there no matter what.
26:26
Speaker 2: But early in the season it's almost like you were
26:29
Speaker 2: you were waiting for something to click, weren't you.
26:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that again, our leadership what we were
26:39
Speaker 3: lacking my freshman year. We had my senior year. You know,
26:44
Speaker 3: it was between myself and Schooney and Nashaun Coleman, and
26:49
Speaker 3: we had leaders who really want to win, and we
26:53
Speaker 3: were all selfless, you know, and I realized, Okay, I
26:57
Speaker 3: may have to play a role in order for us
26:59
Speaker 3: to be six us full. And going to Puerto Rico,
27:03
Speaker 3: we played against SEC teams, we play against ACC teams,
27:08
Speaker 3: and we realized we can we can play with anyone,
27:12
Speaker 3: and we can beat anyone. I think that that tournament,
27:17
Speaker 3: playing there, winning that gave us a lot of confidence
27:21
Speaker 3: leaving there, and I think we knew this team is,
27:24
Speaker 3: this team could be special. And I think the coaches
27:27
Speaker 3: realized that too. The coaches had a lot of confidence
27:30
Speaker 3: in us.
27:31
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think there were times where you maybe take
27:33
Speaker 2: two steps forward and then maybe a step back with
27:35
Speaker 2: a few of these these games. I know the Tleta loss,
27:38
Speaker 2: there was a Miami loss right after Puerto Rico. But
27:41
Speaker 2: for me, the big one was it's a home game
27:44
Speaker 2: against Indiana, all right, It's early January. You'd lost to
27:48
Speaker 2: them three times the previous year, and you you came
27:52
Speaker 2: close to being at least one or two of those times,
27:54
Speaker 2: it was kind of like, oh, man, you're right there,
27:57
Speaker 2: Bob Knight obviously larger than life coming into Columbus, you
28:01
Speaker 2: know where he played. You beat them seventy three to
28:04
Speaker 2: fifty six that night, And to me and to a
28:07
Speaker 2: lot of probably other folks, that was when people's eyes
28:10
Speaker 2: started opening to oh, wait a minute, this is a
28:12
Speaker 2: little different. I remember actually after the game, Bob Knight
28:16
Speaker 2: came stumbling into the press conference and he was just
28:19
Speaker 2: all angry and everything, and he said an opening comment,
28:22
Speaker 2: and they said, all right, any questions, and you got
28:25
Speaker 2: Indiana people, you got a High State people. Nobody asked
28:27
Speaker 2: him a question. I'm nineteen years old, I'm a student reporter.
28:30
Speaker 2: I just asked him a question about if he's surprised
28:33
Speaker 2: at how good O High State's guards play. And he
28:36
Speaker 2: bit my head off, of course, because that's what he did.
28:39
Speaker 2: But it was just amazing to me like that, that
28:42
Speaker 2: was like, okay, that was a validating point. And I
28:44
Speaker 2: don't know if you remember it that way too.
28:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean our guards they were strong. You
28:52
Speaker 3: know a lot of people forget about John Sanderson. John Sanderson,
28:56
Speaker 3: what was a really really good player and then get
29:00
Speaker 3: you had you know, Brian Brown again that year. Everybody
29:07
Speaker 3: contributed in so many different ways, you know, even the
29:10
Speaker 3: scout team, but we were prepared for every game. Now
29:14
Speaker 3: we have some confidence, and you know, winning against Indiana
29:18
Speaker 3: at home, it just it showed everybody, Okay, we can
29:21
Speaker 3: beat anyone you put in front of us. And we
29:24
Speaker 3: were also having a lot of fun doing it. You know,
29:28
Speaker 3: it was just lots of lots of fun. We really
29:31
Speaker 3: enjoyed each other. George Reese school, he like they were there.
29:38
Speaker 3: They are funny guys, and just to just to come
29:42
Speaker 3: to practice every day. We had a lot of fun
29:44
Speaker 3: and we pushed each other and it was it was
29:48
Speaker 3: you know, I really missed those days.
29:50
Speaker 2: You beat top fifteen, top sixteen teams, You beat Produced
29:53
Speaker 2: seventy two to forty three. You beat a really highly
29:57
Speaker 2: ranked Minnesota team eighty nine to sixty in that one
30:00
Speaker 2: you're you probably remember. I mean there was I think
30:02
Speaker 2: it was the year before you'd played up there at
30:04
Speaker 2: the Barn in Minnesota, and they just kind of beat you.
30:07
Speaker 2: You know, it took your part a little bit. I
30:09
Speaker 2: don't know, you do you get like kind of some
30:12
Speaker 2: redemption out of getting some of those wins. As a senior,
30:14
Speaker 2: now you're kind of beating these teams that have been
30:16
Speaker 2: beating up on you. Oh yeah.
30:18
Speaker 3: I mean as a freshman coming to the Big Ten,
30:21
Speaker 3: the Big Ten, the guys were so big and so strong.
30:24
Speaker 3: I remember, I think Courtney James for Minnesota and I
30:29
Speaker 3: forget Clark, and those two guys were huge and just
30:33
Speaker 3: strong guys. As a freshman, I think I got to
30:37
Speaker 3: come in and guarb Brian Evans. I think it's Brian
30:41
Speaker 3: Evans for Indiana. You know, all he did was run
30:44
Speaker 3: off off of picks and screens, and so he got
30:46
Speaker 3: seven foot or six ten guys set in screen into
30:49
Speaker 3: the whole game.
30:50
Speaker 2: You know.
30:51
Speaker 3: That was you know, as a freshman, you know, very
30:54
Speaker 3: very difficult to be able to physically keep up, and
30:58
Speaker 3: then you know mentally, I mean a lot of a
31:01
Speaker 3: lot of a lot of plays, lots of uh uh,
31:07
Speaker 3: lots of different things that teams tend to tend to do.
31:11
Speaker 3: Early on, I wasn't watching film the same way I
31:13
Speaker 3: watched film as a junior and senior, and as a senior,
31:16
Speaker 3: we watched so much film that helped me play better defense.
31:20
Speaker 3: It helped me become a better person, being able to
31:22
Speaker 3: to understand watch film and look at tendencies.
31:25
Speaker 2: Now you mentioned a little bit earlier, but I'm gonna
31:27
Speaker 2: I'm gonna give you a lot of credit here, Like
31:30
Speaker 2: your your points, your shots, some of your stats went
31:33
Speaker 2: down your senior year. But but the but the effort
31:37
Speaker 2: you're putting in and the contribution. I remember Ken must
31:42
Speaker 2: have been in foul trouble. But the Northwestern game at home,
31:45
Speaker 2: you end up having to guard a seven foot Evan
31:47
Speaker 2: Schmeier for most of the night and you're giving up
31:49
Speaker 2: six inches probably right, I mean, you did that. And
31:51
Speaker 2: I also recall, you know, Fox Sports kind of was there,
31:55
Speaker 2: was trying to compete with Sports Center and ESPN and
31:58
Speaker 2: all that, and they would have on the all they
32:00
Speaker 2: would have stats and it was kind of new to
32:02
Speaker 2: see that on TV at the time. And they would
32:05
Speaker 2: have like, you know, points per game leaders, all these
32:08
Speaker 2: different things. But then they would do college men's college
32:10
Speaker 2: basketball field goal percentage leaders and every week I'm seeing
32:16
Speaker 2: your name on their tops in the country. And I
32:19
Speaker 2: asked Dan Wallenberg one time he was your sports information director.
32:23
Speaker 2: I said, why don't the game notes say this? You know,
32:26
Speaker 2: when when Fox Sports is reporting he's the best in
32:28
Speaker 2: the country and he said, well, it's because he hasn't
32:30
Speaker 2: taken enough shots per game, like there was like a
32:33
Speaker 2: you know, a minimum. But at the same time you're
32:35
Speaker 2: shooting like sixty four percent from the field. It was
32:38
Speaker 2: really I think your contributions were great. Do you remember
32:40
Speaker 2: the Ashmeier game? Do you remember that one?
32:43
Speaker 3: Yes? I do. That was you know, Kenny Johnson, he
32:47
Speaker 3: did get in foul trouble and I had to between
32:51
Speaker 3: me and George Reese, we had to go out there
32:53
Speaker 3: and kind of hold everything down for Ken. And you know,
32:59
Speaker 3: I think, uh, I was kind of like a little
33:02
Speaker 3: fly around the elephant's ear. You know, I just kept on,
33:05
Speaker 3: you know, bugging them, nagging them, kept moving. Just my
33:09
Speaker 3: athleticism just kind of uh frustrated him, I think. And
33:14
Speaker 3: you know, one on one of my my defenses is
33:17
Speaker 3: pretty good.
33:18
Speaker 2: Uh.
33:19
Speaker 3: But but again a lot of it is watching film,
33:21
Speaker 3: being prepared, you know, understanding his tendencies and you know,
33:26
Speaker 3: just you know, leaving it all out there on the court. Uh.
33:31
Speaker 3: My senior year, I did leave uh lead the big
33:35
Speaker 3: ten in the country and in field goal percentage, and
33:40
Speaker 3: you know, again I just kind of played my part.
33:42
Speaker 3: You know. Uh, it was every everyone had their role,
33:47
Speaker 3: and I had to buy into my role. And I
33:51
Speaker 3: just wanted to do whatever it took to win. If
33:54
Speaker 3: if if it meant taking less shots, or if it
33:57
Speaker 3: meant uh, you know, setting the screen here there, and
34:00
Speaker 3: I just want to do whatever it took to win.
34:03
Speaker 3: And you know, luckily it wasn't just me, it was
34:06
Speaker 3: other guys that was selfless, and we all were on
34:09
Speaker 3: the same page. And again we had a lot of
34:11
Speaker 3: fun and it was it was it was awesome.
34:15
Speaker 2: All right, let's go through the tournament run. If I
34:17
Speaker 2: remember correctly, Scooney Pin had kind of injured his tailbone
34:21
Speaker 2: or something like that in the last regular season game
34:23
Speaker 2: at Penn State. And then you you were beaten in
34:25
Speaker 2: the second round by an upstart Illinois team in the
34:28
Speaker 2: Big Ten tournament and now you're seated fourth. You're going
34:30
Speaker 2: to Indianapolis. I actually had to miss the first game.
34:35
Speaker 2: The Murray State game was on a Thursday night. I
34:37
Speaker 2: had a final and I couldn't. I couldn't get over
34:39
Speaker 2: there and back. So you beat Murray State. I was
34:42
Speaker 2: just I did watch on TV. I'm like, come on,
34:44
Speaker 2: you guys got to win so I can come, you know,
34:46
Speaker 2: Saturday you beat them, and then Detroit Mercy, which I
34:50
Speaker 2: don't know if you knew any of the guys on
34:52
Speaker 2: that team. They upset UCLA and so you play them
34:56
Speaker 2: in the second round and you beat them seventy five
34:58
Speaker 2: to forty four. Tell me a little bit going to
35:00
Speaker 2: Indianapolis getting your first taste of postseason play.
35:04
Speaker 3: Uh. I think we were happy that we were going
35:07
Speaker 3: to Indianapolis because it was so close. We knew that
35:11
Speaker 3: we knew that we could beat anyone. We also knew
35:13
Speaker 3: that we could lose anyone, you know with marsh madness. Uh,
35:16
Speaker 3: but going to Indianapolis was great because we knew our
35:19
Speaker 3: fans would be there, and we knew our fans could
35:21
Speaker 3: get over there easily and we would have a good turnout,
35:24
Speaker 3: which we did.
35:25
Speaker 1: Uh.
35:27
Speaker 3: Uh, Murray Stay was a good team.
35:29
Speaker 2: Uh.
35:30
Speaker 3: Detroit was a really good team. I think Detroit had
35:33
Speaker 3: uh Rashad Phillips and uh they had Jermaine Jackson, they
35:38
Speaker 3: had they had some guys that ended up playing in
35:41
Speaker 3: the NBA. Jalen Rose was there watching the game. So
35:44
Speaker 3: we were trying to make sure that we we we uh,
35:49
Speaker 3: you know, we weren't upset and that we would just
35:51
Speaker 3: come in there play well. They had good guards, but
35:54
Speaker 3: I think we matched up well with them as well
35:56
Speaker 3: because we had guards and we were so athletic. But
36:00
Speaker 3: I think one of the biggest things we were happy
36:01
Speaker 3: about was just being close to a Columbus, being right
36:06
Speaker 3: down the road in Indianapolis, so our fans could be there.
36:09
Speaker 2: Well, you did, you got it done, and there were
36:11
Speaker 2: a good mount fans there. Although playing in that dome
36:14
Speaker 2: it was obviously very cavernous and very big. But now
36:17
Speaker 2: you're off to Knoxville for the Sweet sixteen. You're going
36:20
Speaker 2: against Auburn. They were not a traditional power by any means,
36:24
Speaker 2: but with Chris Porter and their coach Cliff Ellis and
36:27
Speaker 2: Charles Barkley was in attendance, Like that was like a
36:30
Speaker 2: moment for me. I didn't get to call the play
36:32
Speaker 2: by play, but I had a media pass and so
36:34
Speaker 2: they would put you in the first row around the arena,
36:38
Speaker 2: like there was an overflow for media, and I remember
36:41
Speaker 2: looking back and I'm like, Charles Barkley's behind me, Like
36:44
Speaker 2: I got a better seat than Charles Barkley. That was
36:46
Speaker 2: pretty cool. They were favored, but you still beat the
36:49
Speaker 2: Tigers seventy two, sixty four and you stay alive. At
36:53
Speaker 2: this point, it's starting to really like momentum is growing,
36:56
Speaker 2: isn't it.
36:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, the momentum is growing. We're making a run.
37:02
Speaker 3: And we thought that we matched it really well with
37:05
Speaker 3: with Arburn that they have. They had Chris Porter. I
37:09
Speaker 3: knew that I would have the Chris Porter assignment, and
37:11
Speaker 3: I felt as though that I would be able to
37:14
Speaker 3: contain him. Uh, they had another guard. I felt that
37:17
Speaker 3: the guard situation between Brian Brown and Schooney, we would
37:22
Speaker 3: be able to contain the guard. So I just felt
37:26
Speaker 3: like our matchups were just really really good. And again,
37:30
Speaker 3: having Ken Johnson back there, who's leading the country and
37:33
Speaker 3: shot blocking at the time, was always a safety net
37:36
Speaker 3: for us, and we knew we can get out and
37:39
Speaker 3: play hard on defense and really harassed guys. And again
37:45
Speaker 3: we we we uh, we knew what we had and
37:49
Speaker 3: that was just, uh, you know, such an amazing game
37:52
Speaker 3: for us. Because Arburn was picked to win, we were
37:56
Speaker 3: it felt as though we were you know, down south,
38:00
Speaker 3: which we were. Uh. We were worried that they would
38:03
Speaker 3: have so many more fans than us, And I think
38:06
Speaker 3: we had a good show and I think the game
38:07
Speaker 3: might be on Thursday or Friday night. So a lot
38:10
Speaker 3: of like a lot of our our Buckeye fans was
38:12
Speaker 3: waiting to see if we were going to win. And
38:14
Speaker 3: once we did, they jumped on the road on the
38:17
Speaker 3: highway and came down for the next game against Saint
38:21
Speaker 3: John's because the whole the whole arena was filled with
38:25
Speaker 3: a Buckeye fans.
38:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, for reasons I won't get into. We had to.
38:28
Speaker 2: We went to the game Thursday night, then we stayed
38:31
Speaker 2: at night, but we had to come back to Columbus
38:33
Speaker 2: the group I was with, and then we came back
38:35
Speaker 2: on Saturday. And yes, there were many many Ohio State fans.
38:38
Speaker 2: You mentioned Brian Brown. Let's rewind just a moment. Coach
38:41
Speaker 2: O'Brien made that change. John Sanderson had started basically at
38:45
Speaker 2: the wing all year, Michael Red and Scooney where I
38:49
Speaker 2: guess you're one and two guards. But for the tournament run,
38:53
Speaker 2: Brian Brown, the freshman, was inserted in the starting lineup.
38:56
Speaker 2: Do you your call? Did he give a reason to it?
38:59
Speaker 2: Just kind of changed would have been happening all year
39:01
Speaker 2: and Brian obviously earned it and played really well.
39:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, the coach didn't make an announcement or
39:07
Speaker 3: you know, he didn't give a reason or anything. I
39:09
Speaker 3: think they just saw that they preferred to have, you know,
39:13
Speaker 3: that three guard lineup with Schooney, Mike Uh and Brian
39:22
Speaker 3: I think it took a little pressure off of off
39:25
Speaker 3: of SCHOONEYE. Also Brian Brown brought the ball up, you
39:29
Speaker 3: know half the time. It's actually funny. I was watching
39:33
Speaker 3: the game with Schooney and I was asking him, you know,
39:37
Speaker 3: sometimes it seemed as a fifty to fifty Brian Brown
39:40
Speaker 3: would bring the ball up, and I was asked him like,
39:42
Speaker 3: how did you guys figure out who's going to bring
39:43
Speaker 3: the ball up? And then he said that they knew
39:45
Speaker 3: what plays they were going to run, and some plays
39:48
Speaker 3: were for with the mic, someone's for SCHOONEYE, And depending
39:52
Speaker 3: on the play, Brian Brown would bring the ball up.
39:55
Speaker 3: And I think I think it just helped free up
39:58
Speaker 3: Schooney to get some more shots off and to get
40:02
Speaker 3: you know, it's difficult being a point guard and having
40:05
Speaker 3: to bring the ball up and then shoot the ball
40:07
Speaker 3: and score. So having Brian Brown and having two guys
40:10
Speaker 3: on the wing they can score, you know, really helped
40:13
Speaker 3: us be balanced and a more of a balanced attack
40:15
Speaker 3: on offense.
40:16
Speaker 2: Well to your point.
40:17
Speaker 3: And Brian Brown's defense was really really strong too. Yeah,
40:20
Speaker 3: he was.
40:21
Speaker 2: I think by the time he was done in the
40:22
Speaker 2: highest he was an All Big ten defensive player. To
40:26
Speaker 2: your point too. I think in the next game, the
40:28
Speaker 2: Elite eight against a Saint John's team, that was really good.
40:32
Speaker 2: You win that game, it's a tense game. You win
40:34
Speaker 2: seventy seven seventy four. Scooney I think had twenty six
40:37
Speaker 2: points in that game, so that I mean he was
40:39
Speaker 2: one of the best scoring point guards in the country
40:42
Speaker 2: and maybe not maybe one of the best in the
40:44
Speaker 2: higher state history. And you're right, I think pulling him
40:47
Speaker 2: off the ball sometimes probably freed him up more so
40:49
Speaker 2: that that's definitely what you needed. What do you remember
40:51
Speaker 2: about that Saint John's game and some foul trouble in
40:54
Speaker 2: that game as well.
40:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just remember you know that they again it
41:01
Speaker 3: was uh for some reason, we always uh matched up well,
41:07
Speaker 3: you know with with teams. You know that they had
41:09
Speaker 3: Eric Barkley and uh they had run our tests uh
41:14
Speaker 3: post l You know that they that they had a
41:17
Speaker 3: lot of talent, they had a lot of scores. But
41:19
Speaker 3: in every position, I think we had someone that can
41:22
Speaker 3: match up with those guys, and I think they were
41:26
Speaker 3: having a great season also and thinking that they would
41:29
Speaker 3: go really deep in the tournament and not really knowing
41:33
Speaker 3: who we are, you know, not really knowing that house.
41:37
Speaker 3: They has good basketball, I think they were not ready
41:41
Speaker 3: for uh, for for what we had.
41:43
Speaker 2: I think they've beaten a good Maryland team to get
41:45
Speaker 2: there as well. And yeah, just you know, did you
41:48
Speaker 2: end up guarding our test a lot that night? I don't,
41:50
Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah, I mean, and boy talk about
41:54
Speaker 2: seeing him in person even then, because he went on
41:57
Speaker 2: to be a good NBA player, really good. I was
42:00
Speaker 2: just struck by how like thick he was, like he was,
42:03
Speaker 2: he was so strong, especially in his legs. He was
42:05
Speaker 2: just such a strong player. But obviously you guys were
42:09
Speaker 2: able to hold it back and win that game.
42:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean between Chris Porter and run our tests
42:16
Speaker 3: and fight every game I'm facing the NBA player and
42:21
Speaker 3: you know, all these guys from eva Eshmeyer, I mean,
42:25
Speaker 3: the Big Ten definitely prepared us for the run that
42:27
Speaker 3: we were going to make.
42:28
Speaker 2: Now from where you guys had come from two really
42:32
Speaker 2: rough seasons to now, and I mean even us as guy.
42:38
Speaker 2: And one of the reasons we drove back to Columbus.
42:40
Speaker 2: Was because we weren't making plays right, Like we just
42:43
Speaker 2: didn't know when it was going to end. Not that
42:45
Speaker 2: we didn't have faith in you guys, but it was
42:46
Speaker 2: more like, well, we've not been here right, like it
42:49
Speaker 2: had been since nineteen ninety two since I stayed and
42:51
Speaker 2: made the tournament, And all of a sudden, the game ends,
42:55
Speaker 2: you beat Saint John's, and it was just like I
43:00
Speaker 2: could just describe it as euphoria, Like you cut the
43:02
Speaker 2: nets down. There's interviews all over the court. I actually
43:06
Speaker 2: ended up helping Channel ten because it's not digital, so
43:09
Speaker 2: they literally are still using tapes and they're like seth,
43:13
Speaker 2: run out to the truck and deliver the tape to
43:15
Speaker 2: the producer so they can load up the next interview.
43:18
Speaker 2: And the anchor was out there, you know, doing a
43:21
Speaker 2: live shot, and I'm running back and forth, back and forth,
43:24
Speaker 2: and every time I come back, you guys are still
43:25
Speaker 2: just dancing and having fun. Like what do you remember
43:28
Speaker 2: about the post game?
43:31
Speaker 3: Like you said having fun, I remember just seeing my
43:33
Speaker 3: family in the stands and it was just a sea
43:38
Speaker 3: of red literally in the stands and in the crowd,
43:41
Speaker 3: and I was so humbled and just happy that we
43:45
Speaker 3: were able to win for our fans and to bring
43:50
Speaker 3: some excitement to a house state and bring excitement to
43:54
Speaker 3: the basketball program. We always have fun. We always our
44:00
Speaker 3: team was just a really jovio, loose team and before
44:05
Speaker 3: all the games, we were always dancing. And every game
44:08
Speaker 3: Schoen he would bring his little his well, his big boombox.
44:12
Speaker 3: It was just a big radio. He would bring his
44:14
Speaker 3: radio and we would play Detroit music and we would
44:19
Speaker 3: dance in the locker rooms before eacht game. So then
44:22
Speaker 3: after we won against Saint John's, we were dancing on
44:25
Speaker 3: the court and just bringing some of that locker room
44:29
Speaker 3: spirit out to the to the to the to our fans.
44:33
Speaker 2: Now I remember the following week, you're back in Columbus,
44:35
Speaker 2: everybody's getting ready to depart to go to the Final
44:37
Speaker 2: four in Saint Petersburg, Florida. And something people might not
44:43
Speaker 2: think about much today because inn I l and all
44:45
Speaker 2: the things I remember, like Brian Brown, a couple of
44:48
Speaker 2: other guys being excited because you're on spring break, so
44:51
Speaker 2: the rules allowed them to give you a little more
44:53
Speaker 2: per diem or a little more money like that was
44:56
Speaker 2: that was a big deal, especially to like Brian Brown
44:58
Speaker 2: was a freshman and Will Dudley.
45:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, the per diem, you know, back then was always
45:06
Speaker 3: exciting for us. Depending on where you went, what city
45:11
Speaker 3: you were in, how long you were going with the
45:15
Speaker 3: would be a factor, and how much money would we get.
45:17
Speaker 3: So I do remember that, especially going to Florida now
45:24
Speaker 3: knowing how long we're going to be there, it was
45:26
Speaker 3: I think we got a nice little amount of per deem.
45:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were the guys were excited, especially, like I said,
45:32
Speaker 2: the freshman. Now, it was wild. We get down there.
45:35
Speaker 2: I've got two friends who had had bought student tickets
45:38
Speaker 2: through Ohio State and they were about to twenty throw
45:41
Speaker 2: off the free throw line. Good seats for a big dome, right,
45:44
Speaker 2: And we go pick up the tickets. I pick up
45:46
Speaker 2: my media credential and there's a guy outside with a
45:49
Speaker 2: stack of cash like you wouldn't believe. And he offers
45:53
Speaker 2: my roommate and our other friend, Sarah. He offers them
45:57
Speaker 2: like twenty five hundred apiece for the tickets, and we're
46:01
Speaker 2: like what and and and Randy, my roommate, He's like,
46:04
Speaker 2: that's that's a quarter's worth of tuition at the time.
46:09
Speaker 2: And he's like, we'll go down to the sports bar
46:11
Speaker 2: down though the street and watch the game there, Sarah,
46:13
Speaker 2: let's sell these tickets and she's like, no, I'm not
46:16
Speaker 2: doing it. I came here to watch the buck guys.
46:18
Speaker 2: I'm not doing it. And he looks at me, he's like,
46:20
Speaker 2: where's your ticket? And I said, well, I got this
46:22
Speaker 2: press pass in it. I think I think he might
46:24
Speaker 2: have my picture on it, even like it's it's it's
46:26
Speaker 2: pretty official. And the guy's like, well, you could get
46:29
Speaker 2: like ten thousand dollars for that, and I was like, yeah,
46:32
Speaker 2: I'll never be allowed to cover a game again because
46:34
Speaker 2: they'd be like, some other guy took my press pass, right,
46:37
Speaker 2: So that's what it was like. This guy had to
46:40
Speaker 2: they'd already sold tickets and he had to come try
46:42
Speaker 2: to get them. It was pandemonium down there. It was
46:47
Speaker 2: a weird night. Was you know, Scoony pin Right had
46:49
Speaker 2: to play without his jersey, his number twelve wasn't do
46:52
Speaker 2: you recall what happened there?
46:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, they couldn't find his jersey, and you know, it's
46:57
Speaker 3: still like a mystery today of what happened to that jersey.
47:00
Speaker 3: And you know, I think that kind of threw a
47:02
Speaker 3: little bit of you know threw us off a little
47:06
Speaker 3: bit and and definitely threw him off wearing a I
47:10
Speaker 3: think he wore thirty five, maybe.
47:13
Speaker 2: Not made famous yet by Kevin Durant, so nobody wanted
47:16
Speaker 2: to wear.
47:16
Speaker 3: Thirty nobody want to win thirty five.
47:19
Speaker 2: So he didn't have his name on it. Obviously. Things
47:21
Speaker 2: like that, you lose to a very good Yukon team
47:25
Speaker 2: that's the first of their many now national championships. Had
47:28
Speaker 2: a good team. Rip Rip Hamilton khlet Elamin. I guess
47:34
Speaker 2: the game itself, well, I think it was a six
47:36
Speaker 2: point loss. What what was What was it like in
47:38
Speaker 2: the game and did it feel like it just kind
47:40
Speaker 2: of I don't know if you guys never got your
47:42
Speaker 2: your feet under you or what. It just always felt
47:45
Speaker 2: like the whole game like you're playing a little bit
47:46
Speaker 2: of ketchup.
47:48
Speaker 3: Yeah. I always I kind of compare it to you know,
47:53
Speaker 3: you look at like Duke and and and then and
47:57
Speaker 3: they're just uston winning and they you know when when
48:01
Speaker 3: when they win, it's like, okay, this is kind of
48:04
Speaker 3: what we do. I think when we won, you know,
48:08
Speaker 3: I think that the celebrating and then this this the
48:11
Speaker 3: the whole emotion of everything. I think that was you know,
48:14
Speaker 3: kind of draining, and I feel as though in the
48:18
Speaker 3: final four, I feel like I think we were just, uh,
48:21
Speaker 3: in my opinion, I felt like we were a little
48:23
Speaker 3: drained and a little bit you know, emotionally emotionally drained
48:28
Speaker 3: from from uh the success that we had and just
48:31
Speaker 3: not being it being our first time and and not
48:35
Speaker 3: being completely prepared and ready. We were prepared and ready,
48:39
Speaker 3: you know, for the the game plan, but I think
48:43
Speaker 3: it just h each step of the way. It just
48:45
Speaker 3: took a little bit out of us, and you know,
48:48
Speaker 3: it's kind of hard just playing. But it just seems
48:50
Speaker 3: as though, you know, if we, uh, if we if
48:54
Speaker 3: we could have figured out a way to refresh and
48:56
Speaker 3: and and just you know kind of group to get
49:00
Speaker 3: our minds back on track. You know, you know, we
49:03
Speaker 3: were like rock Scars and everyone was so excited, and
49:07
Speaker 3: there's so many distractions and it's just it's just, uh,
49:11
Speaker 3: it was it was difficult for it being our first
49:13
Speaker 3: time and trying to maneuver and navigate and just trying
49:18
Speaker 3: to make sure we were still focused.
49:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, the the atmosphere even around the shot and scene
49:24
Speaker 2: Cinerea when you departed for the airport, things like that
49:26
Speaker 2: I will say to your point, Yukon was on the
49:28
Speaker 2: come before that, they had kind of they'd kind of
49:31
Speaker 2: been on the doorstep multiple times, so they were quote
49:33
Speaker 2: unquote used to the tournament atmosphere, used to winning, and
49:37
Speaker 2: to that point, the locker room after the game was
49:40
Speaker 2: very somber. You guys weren't happy. Obviously, you just lost,
49:43
Speaker 2: but I still remember being struck by the sense of
49:47
Speaker 2: accomplishment that many of you had, and for you and Nashwan,
49:50
Speaker 2: though you're seniors so so obviously had to feel a
49:52
Speaker 2: little different. I know Michael Red decided to come back
49:55
Speaker 2: for another year, and he wasn't really as probably broken
49:58
Speaker 2: up as a guy who, like yourself, of laid it
50:00
Speaker 2: all on the line for the last time. Talk about
50:03
Speaker 2: that a little bit like the idea of like, hey,
50:05
Speaker 2: my last game, but it wasn't the final four.
50:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was. It's always, you know, tough
50:13
Speaker 3: to to transition and move on. At that moment, you know,
50:18
Speaker 3: we felt as though we could have won. We felt
50:20
Speaker 3: as though we again we matched up really well with them.
50:23
Speaker 3: They were almost a mere image of our team, and
50:27
Speaker 3: we just didn't have enough to get over the hump.
50:30
Speaker 3: Richard Hamilton played great. Uh, he hit big shots after
50:33
Speaker 3: big shot, and you know, we were definitely happy with
50:39
Speaker 3: making it that far going to the final four. We
50:41
Speaker 3: wish we could have have gone, you know, kept on
50:44
Speaker 3: going because we felt like we had enough to win
50:46
Speaker 3: a national championship. You know, for me personally, I felt
50:52
Speaker 3: as though we we we reached our our our our
50:56
Speaker 3: our dreams, and you know, one of my goals and
50:58
Speaker 3: dreams was to just leave a legacy behind and to
51:02
Speaker 3: to to have a winning season and for us to
51:05
Speaker 3: go to the final four and to get to have
51:08
Speaker 3: had a magical season. We would be in the history
51:11
Speaker 3: books forever and I would be able to leave leave
51:13
Speaker 3: my legacy.
51:14
Speaker 2: Well, I've already kept you longer than I said. So
51:16
Speaker 2: I'm gonna hit two things as quickly as I can. Here.
51:19
Speaker 2: We have to address the fact that a few years later,
51:21
Speaker 2: certainly things crashed down a little bit and now there's
51:24
Speaker 2: no banner. Now. The problem is those of us who
51:28
Speaker 2: especially who were there in person, right, I mean, uh,
51:32
Speaker 2: when you go to the final four, they give the
51:34
Speaker 2: media a pin and it has like the logo from
51:37
Speaker 2: the Final four. I still have that, I still have
51:39
Speaker 2: the credential, I still have the memories. What is it
51:43
Speaker 2: done to you or how it affect you to not
51:47
Speaker 2: to know that banner is not there and that kind
51:49
Speaker 2: of thing.
51:50
Speaker 3: Uh, it doesn't It doesn't really affect me very much
51:54
Speaker 3: not having a banner there. You know, we have we know,
52:00
Speaker 3: we've talked, you know, this whole time about all the
52:04
Speaker 3: memories and everything that happened. You can't erase that, and
52:08
Speaker 3: you can't erase the the winds and you can't erase
52:13
Speaker 3: the memories, the laughs, all those things happened. And whether
52:19
Speaker 3: you have a banner up, you know, it really is
52:25
Speaker 3: in the banner. I mean, not many people are gonna
52:28
Speaker 3: see see the banner, whether it's up or it's gone,
52:33
Speaker 3: but people are going to remember because of this legacy
52:38
Speaker 3: and and you telling stories about your experience with Sarah
52:43
Speaker 3: that will never never go away. And you know, my
52:46
Speaker 3: memories with those guys on the court in the locker
52:50
Speaker 3: room will will always be in my mind and my
52:52
Speaker 3: heart forever. We all have our rings and we all
52:56
Speaker 3: have a video, and it's something that has has shaped
53:01
Speaker 3: us and we'll be with us forever.
53:04
Speaker 2: Absolutely all. Right after college, you played overseas a little bit.
53:08
Speaker 2: You came back and got a master's degree from Central Michigan,
53:11
Speaker 2: so you continue the educational track. But as we talked
53:14
Speaker 2: about earlier, you came back to Columbus. I know you
53:16
Speaker 2: worked for a higher state for a long time, and
53:19
Speaker 2: you're currently the athletic director at Clumbos Academy and you've
53:23
Speaker 2: got a big game as we record this on Saturday night.
53:26
Speaker 2: Your son is trying to win a state championship for academy.
53:30
Speaker 2: I guess if you could just take me through kind
53:33
Speaker 2: of post playing career and things like that and build
53:36
Speaker 2: up to your son being in the position he's in.
53:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have been very fortunate to still be involved
53:42
Speaker 3: in sports. I worked at the NCAA, and you know,
53:48
Speaker 3: worked there for a while, and I left there got
53:54
Speaker 3: a job at Ohiose State working in admissions I'm sorry,
53:58
Speaker 3: and I was in compliance and I went to development
54:03
Speaker 3: in front raising. Then I was an administrator and I
54:07
Speaker 3: was over the men's and women's basketball team at Ohiose State.
54:11
Speaker 3: Decided to leave Ohio State and I decided to go
54:17
Speaker 3: to a clums Academy and I have been at a
54:20
Speaker 3: Clumb's Academy for six years as the athletic director. My
54:24
Speaker 3: kids also go there and my son is a junior,
54:26
Speaker 3: My daughter is a sophomore, and my son has been
54:30
Speaker 3: playing basketball this year. He has had a breakout season.
54:34
Speaker 3: It's been a magical season for him. They are twenty
54:38
Speaker 3: eight to no right now, and this Saturday they will
54:41
Speaker 3: play in the state championship. So I'm hoping that they
54:46
Speaker 3: can get one more win and he can get a
54:49
Speaker 3: state championship. When I was in high school, we went
54:53
Speaker 3: twenty eight to oh and won a state championship. So
54:55
Speaker 3: he's kind of, you know, doing the same thing. Hopefully
55:00
Speaker 3: he can surpass me by being twenty nine and zero Saturday.
55:06
Speaker 2: Can you compare for me? You know, the difference between
55:09
Speaker 2: doing it as a player and then watching your own
55:11
Speaker 2: son do it, like it's got to be. Yeah, I'm
55:14
Speaker 2: at a much different level. Obviously I didn't play college
55:16
Speaker 2: or pro athletics, but seeing my sons accomplish certain things
55:19
Speaker 2: on the field or quarter or what may be, it
55:22
Speaker 2: is different, isn't it.
55:24
Speaker 3: Yeah it's different, And you know, I feel like I
55:29
Speaker 3: have the blueprint and I can really share a lot
55:32
Speaker 3: with him. But you know, kids they usually don't listen
55:35
Speaker 3: to their parents. So I am just fortunate that we
55:39
Speaker 3: have a great basketball coach Jeff Wesler, and he does
55:43
Speaker 3: a great job of teaching. They watch a lot of film.
55:46
Speaker 3: He stressed defense and working hard and toughness. And my
55:52
Speaker 3: son he's definitely excelled and improved as a as a
55:57
Speaker 3: young man and as a player under Jeff, well under
56:01
Speaker 3: Jeff Warsler.
56:03
Speaker 2: Well, hey, it's Clark Kellogg said years ago. The madness
56:05
Speaker 2: of marches upon us as we record this. The games
56:09
Speaker 2: are about the tip off, and you've got the madness
56:11
Speaker 2: of March there with the high school still going as well.
56:14
Speaker 2: Best of luck this weekend, and Jason, thanks so much
56:17
Speaker 2: for taking the time to sit down with me. This
56:18
Speaker 2: is you know, for somebody like myself who was there
56:21
Speaker 2: with you know, alongside I guess or watching it from Afar.
56:24
Speaker 2: I just many great memories, so I really appreciate it.
56:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you so much. Thanks for having me. And
56:31
Speaker 3: you know, I am so proud to be a buck
56:33
Speaker 3: Eye and I just feel truly blessed that I had
56:37
Speaker 3: an opportunity to play for House State and and you
56:40
Speaker 3: know it's truly changed my life.
56:42
Speaker 2: Well, hopefully better times are ahead for a High State
56:45
Speaker 2: as well. But best luck to you again this weekend
56:48
Speaker 2: and hopefully Jason comes home with that undefeated state championship.
56:52
Speaker 3: Good luck to you, thank you, thank you, Go Bucks.
56:54
Speaker 2: Go Bucks. Thanks for tuning in, and check back later
56:57
Speaker 2: for more Buckeye banter here on Buckeye Huddle