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Katie Woolf spoke with Opposition Leader Lia Finocchiaro · 360 with Katie Woolf

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  Speaker 1: You're listening to Mix one oh four point nine. Now,
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  Speaker 1: as we know, the estimates process is underway in the
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  Speaker 1: Northern Territory at the moment, and it's the opportunity for
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  Speaker 1: the Opposition and the Independence to question the government over
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  Speaker 1: spending and departmental operations.
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  Speaker 2: I had a good listen yesterday.
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  Speaker 1: Afternoon when I got off air, and I'll tell you
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  Speaker 1: what it got fairly heated at different times. Now joining
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  Speaker 1: me on the line to talk more about this and
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  Speaker 1: plenty more is the Opposition leader Leofanocchiaro.
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  Speaker 3: Good morning, Good morning Katie, and to your listeners, Lea.
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  Speaker 1: You had a whole day to question the Chief Minister yesterday.
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  Speaker 1: What did you choose to focus on?
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  Speaker 3: So yesterday I grilled the Chief Minister from eight thirty
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  Speaker 3: in the morning till six o'clock last night, and I
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  Speaker 3: have to say it was a pretty lackluster performance on
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  Speaker 3: his part. We have cause honed write in on the budget,
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  Speaker 3: the state of our financial disarray, what the government's plans
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  Speaker 3: were around the so called debt ceiling, which does absolutely
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  Speaker 3: nothing and delivers no consequence. If a government is to
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  Speaker 3: blow that fifteen billion dollar cab. If you can absolutely
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  Speaker 3: believe that we focused around transparency. Of course, a very
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  Speaker 3: topical issue is the fact that the Gunner government have
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  Speaker 3: banned the Anti Independent from press conferences and of course
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  Speaker 3: the public service don't respond to the Anti Independent either.
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  Speaker 3: We had the Auditor General, the Ombudsman, the IKAC, you
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  Speaker 3: name it. So it was a very busy day.
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  Speaker 1: Well I listened to that part actually just before six
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  Speaker 1: o'clock yesterday with great interest when you're asking questions about
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  Speaker 1: the Anti Independent, and found it quite bizarre that no
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  Speaker 1: questions at all were being answered.
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  Speaker 2: You know. To me, I do think that every media.
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  Speaker 1: Outlet reserves the right to be able to approach the
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  Speaker 1: government and indeed departments and try their best to get
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  Speaker 1: questions answered.
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  Speaker 3: Well, that's right. The government of the day doesn't get
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  Speaker 3: to pick and choose what media it talks to. I
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  Speaker 3: mean that in itself sends alarm bells about the level
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  Speaker 3: of scrutiny clearly that the government don't like that's applied
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  Speaker 3: by the Anti Independent. So the fact that the Chief
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  Speaker 3: Minister just you know, dodged and ducked my questions, I
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  Speaker 3: really wanted to ask Jodi Ryan, the CEO of the
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  Speaker 3: Department of Chief Mins around whether or not the Public
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  Speaker 3: Service had been directed not to comment to the Anti Independent,
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  Speaker 3: but the Chief Minister would not let me get to
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  Speaker 3: her and ask those questions. We found out that it
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  Speaker 3: costs Territories about twelve million dollars to run the Media
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  Speaker 3: and Protocol Team in the Department of Chief Minister, and
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  Speaker 3: I said, well, what are their KPIs then if they're
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  Speaker 3: not responding to the media, what job are they performing
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  Speaker 3: for that twelve million dollars? So pretty extraordinary stuff from
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  Speaker 3: the Chief Minister. He was very uncomfortable yesterday and clearly
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  Speaker 3: had a lot to hide.
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  Speaker 1: Well, look, there's another issue I do want to talk
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  Speaker 1: about in a moment that comes to the media, and
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  Speaker 1: it relates to the Ikak but of course it's not
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  Speaker 1: to Naval Gays.
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  Speaker 2: As a media outlet ourselves.
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  Speaker 1: So I will go to some of the other issues
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  Speaker 1: that are indeed very important to a lot of Territorians,
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  Speaker 1: and one of those is the budget. Was there more
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  Speaker 1: information provided about when the dat is going to be
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  Speaker 1: paid down?
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  Speaker 3: No, we have the government questions around when they thought
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  Speaker 3: we might be heading back towards the surplus. The Chief
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  Speaker 3: Minister just repeated his lines over and over again, trying
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  Speaker 3: to claim that this debt ceiling was some sort of
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  Speaker 3: magical hard ceiling that couldn't possibly be breached, and I
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  Speaker 3: put it back on him. I said, well, if you
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  Speaker 3: can create a legislation that for a borrowing a cap
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  Speaker 3: on borrowing that can't be breached, why don't you make
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  Speaker 3: legislation for tougher crime laws that they can't be breached.
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  Speaker 3: You know, it's absolutely fascical that they're saying that this
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  Speaker 3: cap on spending is actually going to be enforceable. It's
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  Speaker 3: not all the government have to do if they want
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  Speaker 3: to change it is one waltz back into Parliament and
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  Speaker 3: make a higher cap, or two explain why they've hit
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  Speaker 3: the cap. So, you know, just a lot of garbage
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  Speaker 3: coming out of the government yesterday on spending and no responsibility,
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  Speaker 3: and I think that was what really struck a chord
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  Speaker 3: with me. We want to again had the Chief Minister
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  Speaker 3: blaming the previous COLP government, blaming the Productivity Commission, blaming GST.
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  Speaker 3: He blamed anything and everything he could for our extraordinary
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  Speaker 3: levels of debt except for his own government's mismanagement of
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  Speaker 3: the books. And you know he kept talking about business
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  Speaker 3: as usual. Well, business as usual is under his government,
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  Speaker 3: not anybody else.
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  Speaker 1: Now, I know that you did ask quite a bit
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  Speaker 1: about if anyone had tinkered with the COVID nineteen financial statement.
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  Speaker 2: Why do you think that somebody.
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  Speaker 3: Has well because he ordered so prior to last election.
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  Speaker 3: If we cast our minds back, the government refused to
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  Speaker 3: deliver a budget, and we believe they refused to deliver
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  Speaker 3: a budget because they didn't want territories to know prior
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  Speaker 3: to the election the true state of the books. Of course,
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  Speaker 3: what we had instead was the government hand down this
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  Speaker 3: COVID nineteen financial statement, which the Order to General, who
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  Speaker 3: is the independent authority who investigates the government's spending, found
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  Speaker 3: that some of the details in that report were misleading,
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  Speaker 3: and it actually pushed the government to a position where
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  Speaker 3: they had to then publish a revised report, you know,
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  Speaker 3: within a week or so of the election last August.
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  Speaker 3: Where of the view that Treasury would have largely prepared
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  Speaker 3: that document, but we've got no doubt that it would
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  Speaker 3: have gone up to the Chief Minister's office. They might
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  Speaker 3: have made it sound more appetizing than it originally was,
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  Speaker 3: and then it got published to the public. Now, we
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  Speaker 3: tried to ask questions around that to get to the
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  Speaker 3: bottom of that, and again the government, the Chief miniss
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  Speaker 3: had just completely dodged questions around it. He wasn't interested.
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  Speaker 3: He basically just the lines were just thick and fast
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  Speaker 3: yesterday he was just going aground and not really engaging
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  Speaker 3: with the process and good faith.
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  Speaker 2: All right.
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  Speaker 1: One of the things that I've been keeping an eye
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  Speaker 1: on over the last couple of days, and we certainly
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  Speaker 1: spoke about yesterday, is the territory's anti corruption watchdog well
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  Speaker 1: Well is being investigated over allegations that it awarded a
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  Speaker 1: lucrative contract to a senior director's boyfriend. We caught up
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  Speaker 1: with Matt Cunningham, the journalist behind that story, yesterday and
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  Speaker 1: he explained that the IKAK Inspector Bruce McClintock sc is
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  Speaker 1: investigating the decision to award the contracts to conduct several
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  Speaker 1: high level investigations to GAT Risk Management, a consultancy business
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  Speaker 1: owned by former South Australian Police officer David McGinlay, who
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  Speaker 1: is the company's sole employee.
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  Speaker 2: Lea, are you concerned by this situation?
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  Speaker 3: Well, we certainly asked the IKAC Commissioner questions all about
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  Speaker 3: it yesterday. He did explain the process of managing that
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  Speaker 3: conflict of interest and also explain that the IQAQ is
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  Speaker 3: exempt from following normal government procurement processes, but that they
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  Speaker 3: do have their own, you know, sort of a different
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  Speaker 3: process that they do for due diligence. It was very
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  Speaker 3: interesting to speak with the k Commissioner about it. Of course,
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  Speaker 3: this is under investigation by the Inspector, and the Inspector
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  Speaker 3: is the person who investigates the IKAK, the office of
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  Speaker 3: the IKAK, all the staff, So that matter is underway
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  Speaker 3: and no doubt that mister Cunningham will be keeping a
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  Speaker 3: very close eye on this story as it evolved, and.
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  Speaker 2: I think we all will be.
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  Speaker 1: Do you think that the government need to make that
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  Speaker 1: k Inspector report, that report by Bruce McClintock.
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  Speaker 2: Do you think that it needs to be made public?
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  Speaker 3: Well, it should be, so I asked a lot of
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  Speaker 3: questions of the Chief Minister about that yesterday. The Inspector
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  Speaker 3: does publish an annual report, so if that matter is
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  Speaker 3: concluded by around August this year, I believe that report
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  Speaker 3: should be available this year for everyone to see.
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  Speaker 1: Now I do understand as well that throughout that questioning yesterday,
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  Speaker 1: the outgoing Independent Commissioner Ken Fleming has well the nt
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  Speaker 1: users reporting, lashed out at a whistleblower after allegations of
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  Speaker 1: a conflict of interest emerged from his office. Now, as
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  Speaker 1: part of what was said, he said that he was
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  Speaker 1: capable of using his powers as a commissioner to force
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  Speaker 1: the Sky News reporter behind that story to divulge his contact.
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  Speaker 1: Now we all know obviously yesterday on the show was
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  Speaker 1: Matt Cunningham. He is the reporter behind that that report.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, do you think that that is appropriate?
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  Speaker 3: Well, look, the IKAK has got very very wide, broad
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  Speaker 3: reaching powers in some instances, powers that are stronger than
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  Speaker 3: even our police. So you know, I understand that the
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  Speaker 3: i K Commissioner may very well have that power. And
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  Speaker 3: whether or not he chooses to use it, I suppose
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  Speaker 3: will will be a matter for him. But it's important
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  Speaker 3: that people do understand the breadth of the powers that
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  Speaker 3: an IKQ does have to investigate all sorts of matters
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  Speaker 3: of you know, from mal administration right through to corruption.
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  Speaker 1: But I mean from a journalist's perspective, you know, when
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  Speaker 1: you look at this story, it is something that should
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  Speaker 1: be reports. I mean, the general public have a right
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  Speaker 1: to know that this investigation is underway. I would think
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  Speaker 1: that's certainly my views behind it. So then if a
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  Speaker 1: reporter was forced to reveal their source, you know, the
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  Speaker 1: reality is it would become increasingly difficult to be able
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  Speaker 1: to report stories such as this.
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  Speaker 3: Oh, you know, without question, Katie. I mean, and I've
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  Speaker 3: got absolutely no doubt about that. And journalists, of course,
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  Speaker 3: have got a very strict code in which you operate in.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, you rely on people to give you information
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  Speaker 3: and you rely on whistleblowers to take that you know,
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  Speaker 3: to take that comfort, have that confidence in you to
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  Speaker 3: be able to get information that they be appropriate coming
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  Speaker 3: to light. But you know, what happens with this will
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  Speaker 3: remains be seen. Will the IK use his power? I
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  Speaker 3: don't know, but I think there's no question that the
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  Speaker 3: IK certainly does have that power. And you know, if
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  Speaker 3: Territorians don't think that that power is appropriate, then that's
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  Speaker 3: really a matter for the Parliament.
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  Speaker 1: I'll ask you the same question that I asked the
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  Speaker 1: Health Minister yesterday, and it does follow on from that
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  Speaker 1: report and also follows on from another serious incident involving
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  Speaker 1: the I cake a few weeks ago.
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  Speaker 2: Do you have confidence in the ikak?
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  Speaker 3: Yes, Look, the I cake is a very important office.
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  Speaker 3: It has bipartisan support. Mister Fleming or Commissioner Fleming has
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  Speaker 3: had to, you know, create that office from nothing. It's
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  Speaker 3: highly complex legislation. It's never been done in the territory before.
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  Speaker 3: Of course. Mister Fleming his last day is the fifth
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  Speaker 3: of July, and we've got the new commissioner coming in
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  Speaker 3: literally the day after on the sixth of July, and
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  Speaker 3: no doubt he will. The new commissioner will you know,
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  Speaker 3: take a look at how everything's been going and add
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  Speaker 3: his own lens on things. But you know, it's an
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  Speaker 3: important process, and it's an evolving process, and you know,
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  Speaker 3: ultimately I called on in Parliament a couple of weeks
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  Speaker 3: ago that there should really be a review of the
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  Speaker 3: ICAC ACT. I think it's been op rating for long
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  Speaker 3: enough now that we need to work out what's working
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  Speaker 3: and what's not working and where things can be improved
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  Speaker 3: going forward. And I certainly hope that's something the new
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  Speaker 3: Commissioner will be looking at.
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  Speaker 1: Would you have anticipated that there would be more come
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  Speaker 1: out of the eye caack at this point.
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  Speaker 3: Ah, Look, it's very hard to tell. I mean you
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  Speaker 3: could either take this as there's there's not that much
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  Speaker 3: corruption in the territory as people perhaps would have thought,
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  Speaker 3: which is a really good thing. Perhaps, you know, one
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  Speaker 3: important role of the EYECACK is actually the educational component.
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  Speaker 3: You know, a lot of you know, members of the
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  Speaker 3: public probably think it'd be great to have more heads rolling,
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  Speaker 3: but that's not necessarily of the function of the EYECACK.
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  Speaker 3: It's there to really provide, you know, you want to
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  Speaker 3: stop those things from happening in the first place, which
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  Speaker 3: is much you know, which is a very important function.
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  Speaker 3: So it could be because that has all been very
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  Speaker 3: effective as well. So ultimately we want we want to
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  Speaker 3: give people the right information and the right tools to
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  Speaker 3: make the right decisions so that that maladministration, misappropriation, misconduct
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  Speaker 3: and corruption and doesn't happen in the.
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  Speaker 1: First Well, and I do note that I believe the
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  Speaker 1: KA Commissioner Ken Fleming did say yesterday in the estimates
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  Speaker 1: that there is still going to be a few reports
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  Speaker 1: to come out before he finishes up.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, he did, he did confirm that, and so I
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  Speaker 3: guess there'll be more to come and we'll have to
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  Speaker 3: wait and see what that involves.
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  Speaker 1: Now, Lea, just finally we know that today I understand
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  Speaker 1: the health minister is in the hot seat.
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  Speaker 2: What are you planning on grilling her about?
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  Speaker 3: I think territories are very interested in today because, of course,
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  Speaker 3: yesterday I tried to ask the Chief Minister a number
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  Speaker 3: of COVID questions and he was pretty quick to point
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  Speaker 3: a lot of those to the Health Minister. Today, of course,
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  Speaker 3: we've had the takeover of Howard Springs with the kicking
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  Speaker 3: out of OZMA and the NT taking that over. We've
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  Speaker 3: had changes to ppe out there. We've had the scrapping
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  Speaker 3: of the rapid antigen testing and the you know, the
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  Speaker 3: nurses coming out and all of those types of issues.
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  Speaker 3: We've had changes to how we run our orders during hotspots,
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  Speaker 3: Lots of change happening in that COVID management space, and
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  Speaker 3: so not to mention issues with mental health ramping at
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  Speaker 3: our hospitals. So I think today is going to be
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  Speaker 3: a very very big day. And Bill, Yeah, the Member
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  Speaker 3: for Namagerira, a shadow Minister for Health, will certainly be
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  Speaker 3: putting the Health ministers through a paste.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I'll tell you what, it's an interesting week. Estimates
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  Speaker 1: is always a very interesting time. And like I said,
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  Speaker 1: right from the get go, the opportunity for the independence
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  Speaker 1: and also the opposition to be able to get to
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  Speaker 1: the bottom of some of those concerns that many territorians
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  Speaker 1: have got and to ask plenty of questions. No doubt
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  Speaker 1: the week that wills will be interesting on Friday with
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  Speaker 1: you all in the studio.
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  Speaker 3: I think it will, Katie, that's for sure. And you know,
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  Speaker 3: it's a long two weeks, but it's a really important time.
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  Speaker 3: And of course the opposition is out there hearing from
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  Speaker 3: territories about what's important to them and we then put
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  Speaker 3: those questions to government, whether they like it or not. Katie.
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  Speaker 3: So it's been a woeful day for them yesterday and
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  Speaker 3: I imagine there's more of that to come for the
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  Speaker 3: gunn of government.
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  Speaker 1: Leafanocchi Aio. It's interesting listening and watching for a political.
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  Speaker 2: Nerd like me. I always appreciate your time. Thank you.
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  Speaker 3: Thank We rely on people like Katy to tune in.
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  Speaker 2: Thank good on you, Leah, thank you.
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  Speaker 1: That is the opposition leader there, Lea Fanocchiaro. Now, if
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  Speaker 1: you do want to call through this morning, eight nine
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  Speaker 1: four one one O four nine is the number.
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  Speaker 2: You can also send us a text if you'd like.