Latest / The Occult Rejects / Uncle Headless' Magical Mailbag-The Hattian “Sun Discs” of Alaca Höyük & More

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Uncle Headless' Magical Mailbag-The Hattian “Sun Discs” of Alaca Höyük & More · The Occult Rejects

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: You see something's going to happen.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: What what's gonna happen?
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: I'll take what off? Everybody. Welcome to another Headless is
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Magical mailbag. I'm joined once again by my co host Nick. Nick.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Tell them what you've been working on? Tell him what
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: you're doing?
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: What is up? What am I working on? Editing? I
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: thing on Oris. Then I'll be moving.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: Over to a covering Plato. They were gonna cover him
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: next shows that we got going on. I'm meant to
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: set it up today, but we will be covering, covering
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: on with the Gateway project again tomorrow.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: There's a bunch of us coming on for that.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: Stargate Analysis of the Gateway Process paperwork Part two.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: That should be fun.
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: Then we got Troubles coming on from Paranoid Radio Saturday
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: to talk about like weird stuff with trees actually right
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: up your alley. It was like pies of electricity and
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: stuff with trees and stuff and some of this shit.
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: He even specifically said he's like, O, hell, this is
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: really gonna like this because he knows what type of
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: shit you're into. He watches the show. Yeah, we got
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: him coming on, that should be fun. And then we
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: got that really smart Alexander, that Polish King Alexander coming
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: back talking about science and history and stuff.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: That's right, right, Yeah, looking forward to it. So I'm
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: not sure how I'm gonna do it. I'm not sure
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: how I'm gonna fit it in, but I really want
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: to do this show. I got all of the stuff
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: for Michael Akino's uh uh you know, sort of a biography.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: I've got all of his books right, just gonna be
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: going through them and getting it straight from the horse's mouth.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of people just sort of neglect
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: that whole thing. But if you guys have any idea,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: you can send them to uh Headless Shot podcast at
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: gmail dot com and we'll figure it out. I want
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: if somebody wants to be co host, if somebody wants
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: to help me out, that'd be great too.
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: Hey, you know, you should try to actually read it
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: and then cover it like read it was my suggesting,
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: Like read it and then cover it yourself, like what
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: you got out.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: Of it that you read, like you think it is
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: some great Yeah.
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: Right, I think that'd be really interesting to see in
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: occult just read that book and tell them tell people
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: what they see.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: The right exactly. Well, yeah, it's if you don't have
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: the frame of reference of all of this Crowley stuff all, Like,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: you know, we go over at seven seven seven, who
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: do you think read seven seven seven? Yeah, this guy
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: right here, So all of this stuff is inside the
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: mind of all of these other people who idolize people
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: like Crawley. So if you don't know what was going
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: on in Crowley's mind, you're not going to know what's
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: going on inside of the psychos that are around today
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: who follow that stuff. So you'll figure. But I kind
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: of wanted to get into my symbol, Oh yeah, which
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: is the pentacle. I don't know why we haven't done
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: it thus far, but it's funny how much this Wikipedia
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: article is influenced by the Golden Dawn. So right off
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: the bat, it's like also pronounced pantocole and the lima
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: right following Alistair Curley, Did Croley invent this?
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: No?
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Come on a break? And again it's like it all
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: goes back to Crowley on this page. It doesn't make
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: any sense, like they should be going over the historical roots,
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: they should be talking about pythagorists, they should be talking
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: about all this other stuff. Instead, it's seal of Solomon,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Golden Dawn, all the rest of this other stuff. It's like,
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: where's the history? But I found it was interesting here
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: pentacles may be sewn into the chest of one's garment.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: Have you ever seen anybody do that as some kind
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: of a ritual.
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: It may actually go on, like maybe like I don't
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: know if Golden Dorn possibly might actually put that on
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: their shit at some point, maybe for specific orders. But
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: nothing that I've ever done that I ever like need that.
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: If anything, it was just a pentacle on my altar, right,
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: you know, I wasn't putting it on myself.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like a hooded caped not caped, but a hooded cloak.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, with the pentacle right on the chest. Yeah, I
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: have seen that. Uh, I think that might be Golden Door. Actually,
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: let me.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: See again, like all of this stuff is golden golden Nuggle, Like,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: are other magical orders using this? Apparently Wika they mentioned
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: it down here at the bottom.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Then again, Golden Door might be the hexagram. Actually it
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: might be.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: Completely Yeah again, Golden Don is so much more into
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: the hexagram than the pentacle. Yeah, but whoever was writing
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: this one had Golden Don on the brain. But the
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: first documents to depict pentacles. Pentacles were the sixteenth century
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Moore called the nept Cameron by Pseudo petrol Abamo. I
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: haven't read that one yet. I got to read that
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: one key is Solomon and they have Tamaron. There is
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: only one pentacle, while the pentacle, while the key of Solomon,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: there are dozens of different procles. Cameron is a hexagram.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: That is See again they're they're doing this this, they're
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: screwing it up, like define what a pentagram is, to
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: define what a pentacle is, and you know they're they're
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: using this fluid definition. Right is pentacle? Does that have
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: to do with the actual five points of the star
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: or not? Because pentacle sounds like all of the shapes
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: fitting within that. But it's just very messy. I don't
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: know why people haven't tried to clean this up, you know,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, magically speaking, it's very clear what it what
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: it represents. This is the sign of the earth.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: Gerald Gardner, known by some as the father of Wicca,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: got his concepts of pentacles largely from the nineteen oh
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: eight nine Smith Tarot deck, in which the pentacles are
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: discs that are covered with a pentagram, and Gardner's nineteen
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: forty nine book High Magic's Aid, nineteen fifty four book
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: Witchcraft Today. Gardner defined pentacle as a five pointed star
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: intended to mean a pentagram. In nineteen fifty nine book
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: The Meaning of Witchcraft, Gardener to find the pentacle as
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: a synonym of pentagram. So if you're looking for a
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: more confusing source than Gerald Gardner, I don't know if
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: you're going to find one, that's what you get. So
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: the first the word was first recorded in English in
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: fifteen sixty one. From earlier, French uses talisman, right, so
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: they're they're throwing that in there too. So it's like
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: the talisman is the pantogram, is the pentacle is the pentaculo,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: And that's the Latin diminutive. I like the Italian better.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: That's that's much versus Latin, you know, And a lot
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: of people don't know that there's a difference between Italian
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: and Latin.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, but I just.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: Thought it, Uh, bring that up. Yeah, I mean, there's
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: so many more differences between Italian and Latin. But there's
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: a whole history lesson in there. What's up? Everybody?
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Look at these comments, man, nuts, I just all have Tamaron.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: There is I have tamaron.
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to see what those symbols look like,
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: because almost positive.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: I worked with that stuff.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: I'm writing it down. But yeah, the five point to start.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: What it means to me is it's within the geometry itself, right,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: so it represents this kind of fractal right, everything about
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: it is golden ratio fractal. So it's like, if you
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: think about all of the pieces being laid out end
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: to end, you can make a spiral out of it
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: because all of these pentacle pieces fit inside the golden
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: ratio pretty perfectly. Now, that's one of the reasons why
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: it was sacred to the Greeks, who you know, this
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: was like the symbol of well, the hand sign at
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: least for the I was blank on his name. Some
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: the formula with the triangle now the triangle formula at
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: the ninety degree angle, any squareplus be squared equals c square. Anyways,
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: their symbol was the pentacle and they would show it
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: to each other before they were allowed into the lodge.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: And it was really really ancient as a form of magic. Right.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: It was mathematics and it was magic. It brought the
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: two together, and that's why you see such a huge
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: symbolic influence going forward is because of the the I'm
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: still blanking on his name. I don't know why I'm
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: doing it, but this is why so much of Tamatria
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: comes down to, you know, geometry. It'sides right, you.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: Know what I understand is like why don't like the
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: word all right?
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: If you listen, if you think when somebody says pentagram,
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: they're always talking about a five pointed stough. I've never
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: had anybody ever say pentagram and they drew hexagram. Why
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: is it with pedacle? You can suck that up where
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: they just use pentacle as a hexagram and then use
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: pentagram as for that pentagram.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: If anything, what they should do is they should change
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: the E to an a and call the pentacle anything
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: that fits inside of the circle, because that's what it
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: would mean with the pentacle with the a in there.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: So if you're gonna make it all about Talismans or
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: anything like that, pentacle just makes so much more sense
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: than pentacle.
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because it's really only like ceremonial magicians. I mean,
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: it's weird they could say pentacle and actually use a pentagram,
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: or say pentacle and use a hexagram, but then a
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: normal witch or anybody, if they say pentacle, they're going
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: to be using a pentagram, right for the most part.
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: I mean that's what I've ever seen. So it's kind
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: of funny how that that whole fucked up like verbiage,
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: because like, even even the Golden Door this, yo, this
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: was one of the reasons why I didn't even join
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: the Golden Door, even though there wasn't one around. Is that, like,
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: I think you have to start making your own shit.
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: And I had to make one of my own pentacles
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: and it was gonna be a hexagram and you got
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: a painting and all this shit, and I was like, yo,
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: I can't paint these straight lines and make exagram no
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: fucking way. And I was like, yo, I was like
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: the ship that they expect you to make. Fuck this
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: arts and Crafts. It's too much for me. I mean
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: I enjoyed it, but it was just too much. I
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: don't know if it was necessary, but it wasn't like
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: that book that they had, so uh yeah, like and
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: it was a hexagram, so I mean, yeah, I always thought,
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: you know, pentacle, and then I had my own pentacle
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: that had an actual pentagram on it.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: You know, what does it mean to you.
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: Uh shure, I would look at it. I mean no,
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: but I guess like it could be the person themselves.
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: It could be all five elements put together, represent Earth,
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: all five elements put together like it, you know, to
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: come to be, I guess to take form. Uh. I
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: would even I even had it like associated with the
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: moon too. For some reason. I had like stuff with
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: like moon symbolism with it as well. There's a lot
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: of things that human extent, you know, with other symbolism
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: maybe the human or the soul extending upward. There's a
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: lot of day you know, when it comes to ceremonial magic,
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: you get still looking at it in so many different
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: ways or a few more than maybe than there would
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: be normal than in witchcraft.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but uh yeah, I would normally.
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: Have it as a representative of Earth too, as well
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: as one of the elements as like I could saider,
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: you know, it was one of the elements on my altar,
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: that pentacle would be.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Uh. I had it on wood, you know, and I
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: actually burned it in with like one of those those
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: hand burners.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: So I did that myself, like into like you know,
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: something I came from the earth, you know, to represent
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: Earth as well.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, symbolic of the whole thing. Right, So it's like
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: if you're gonna.
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: Or basically like this is even where I'm bringing everything
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: too as well, right, Yeah, that was even another thing
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: like sometimes if I had, let's say, I wanted to
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: charge a talisman or a candle, I was gonna do
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: it on top of that pentacle because to me, it's
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: rep Earth, it's representing here. So I'm gonna bring every
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: you know, whatever I'm focusing on or blessing, you know,
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: doing whatever.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's gonna be on top of that motherfucker.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: Right, And uh, you know again, the Wicked tradition draws
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: so heavily from Golden Dawn it's really hard to you know,
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: pull it apart in anything other than imagery. So you know,
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: again they list Gerald Gardner and there after all the
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: stuff from but you know, Wicka is far more of
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: a popular thing than Golden Dawn ever was, So.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: He's able to get chicks sneaked easier too. For some reason,
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: under witchcraft, I feel like it's easier on the witchcraft
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: and ceremonial magic, you know, outside of the woods looks
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: a lot better than like some eyes wide shut location
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: you fill out seafer it out in the woods.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: I guess, well, there's there's more of an element of
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: danger to it out in the woods. Like if you've
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: got the walls that every day, it sits boring, it's old.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: You got to have that voyeurism or whatever.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, the squirrels can see me.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: The squirrels are looking at my bumble.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah right now.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: There you go. Yeah.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Oh man, all right, that was a good one. Yeah,
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: this was yeah, that was an interesting.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: And when you told me you'd covered that, I was like,
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: that makes so much sense, you know something something like that.
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: I feel like it's you can still talk about for real.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Right, it's simple and it's straight to the point, and
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: everybody knows the symbol, it's just very few people take
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: the time to actually walk through each one of the
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: elements and talk about how important it is to these
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: different magical practices. And I think that's what symbology is
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: all about, is you have to have a form a
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: linkage of meaning, Like there has to be a leash
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: between you and your objects that you're working with, and
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: it has to be a really strong one in terms
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: of meaning and your connection to it.
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: I would say some people are really interested in it
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: from the point of like ceremonial magic. Look into Elevis
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: Levi's like kind of stuff that he says about the
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: pentagram too.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: It's kind of interesting.
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: Some people do think that he might have kind of
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: inspired the pentagram ritual that is known to be used
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: by the Golden Down and Oto. I don't know how
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: truthful that is, but there is, you know, theories on that.
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: So you know, if you're interested, you can go check
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: out his opinion on stuff too.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: I got, uh, what do I got here?
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: Let me yeah, I let men pull up my notes here,
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: let me make sure my oh yeah, and you already
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: pulled up the visil.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we got the the Haitian sun discs of ala.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Alaka hayak a Laka hayak no a Laka hoyak my
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: bad hoyak h o y u.
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: K And this is a flat bronze disc and rings
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: latticed with crosses and triangles, their rims sprouting tiny birds beneath.
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: Beneath the metal flares into curved horns, as if a
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: yoke were waiting above. You get a crown of radiating
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: nubs and perched creatures turns into a small cosmos. On
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: some you also get a stag that stands between two bowls.
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: On others, the animals prowl the rim while the center
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: holds a tight grid like a net for the sky.
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: These are the ones that I'm showing here. These are
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: the Laca the Alaco ones. That's like their standards. They're
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: called Haitian sun discs, and they're grave goods from royal
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: tombs of the Early Bronze Age around twenty to twenty
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: second twenty second to twentieth century BCE, fucking and the
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: age of the Haitian centuries before the rise of the
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: Hittite Empire.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: What exactly are they?
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: Archaeologist kind of have two different opinions or two different
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: ideas for these things.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: One of them, uh, what are they exactly?
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: Animal standards free standing deers or bulls on four little
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: feet that converge into a mount. And then the it's
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: a disc ring a circular, semi circular or composite frames
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: filled with open work grills and ringlets, decorated with birds,
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: flower like rays, and frequently topped or flanked by horns.
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: The animals re recur on these discs too. You get stags, bulls,
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: sometimes lions or panthers, and yeah, normally beasts going around
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: the sun of metal. And then like again, where did
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: you find these things? Between between nineteen thirty five and
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: nineteen thirty nine, Hamit Coset and Ramsey Aeric excavated fourteen
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: princely tombs at Alaka and the graves yielded rich you know,
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: get these things and they found them, then that's when
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: they finally dissil I mean these things actually technically, I
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: mean they're old and they are only like known to.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Us, like less than one hundred years old.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: It's kind of like, you know, I would consider that
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: somewhat of a fairly new find to an extent of
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: like old shit.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, I know, it's not like you know, something
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: from the eighties or.
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: Whatever, but still I think that's kind of like somewhat
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: newish shit to find the nickname, what.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Were they used for?
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: Whether they think that they were used to The classic
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: interpretation comes from James Millart, so he's the one who
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: set the standards. Sees the standards as a wagon or
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: chariot fittings mounted near the yoke or drow bar probably
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: impairs to crown the team that drew the ceremonial cart
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: near Eastern and Cocorcus parallels like around your Kish also
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: show ringed fittings for rains and wagon fronts. The alack
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: of graves with their paired bull remains reinforced the vehicle reading. Yeah,
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: so they actually do think like these things might have
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: been on shit. It's like ornaments, like kind of car
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: ornaments are actually used and then right.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Like they put them on the front of the chariots
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: and stuff. Yeah, yeah, because the back's the business. Then
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: that's the sign that you want everybody looking at.
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: So uh yeah, and then they have alternate ideas. A
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: minority of scholars have proposed system like instruments. That's interesting
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: for some uh heros teep bronzes with moving parts, But
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: for the alaca set they still think. They still believe
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: the same thing as the other guys. Yeah, but for
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: different ones. They do think it might be for a
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: musical instrument, the system if people know, but that was
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: something that's associated with Hathor as well. It kind of
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: like it almost looks like an ONC. It's gonna sound silly,
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: but like I've seen people make them this way, it'll
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: look like an ok and then you'll have something in
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: the middle and you'll put like they put like bottle
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: caps in there, and you would shake it when you
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: make like a like a baby rattle sound. But like
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: you'll find these old things that look like anks and
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: have like these metal like discs that are on some
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: sort of thing to shake it.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, that's a common practice when it comes to
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: Isis worship. Like you could see them holding the systems
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: and all the ancient temples and stuff. But I think
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: you said Haitian. Yeah, and you met hit tight.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you know.
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: I no, it says Haitian, the Haitians some discs of all. Uh,
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: maybe I fucked up hit tight because it does say.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: They're talking about Middle East Pastagi was talking about it
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: in the chat. But yeah, hit tight, that makes sense.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: I was looking up the designs of the ground viv
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: from Voodoo and actually there's a ton of similarities in
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: the in the style, right you got and but this.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Is I talked about. Wow, holy.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: What it's funny. Look you got the same kind of designs.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: And you know the the Voodoo was very heavily influenced
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: by a lot of the uh what was it called that?
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: Oh? Put that stuff back up that looked like a
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: lot of the ship that was in Sorry, there was
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: tons of stuff like that that was in Shepherd in
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: the Rainbow.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: That it was all over the walls, you remember that, right.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: And underneath all of the drums. You have to have
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: the right designs poured out for the right kind of drums.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: So they've got the entire space set up according with
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: these with these designs. So this actually kind of goes
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: back to Petacles like. There are different ways of drawing
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: out the designs that they use for the different types
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: of cosmos, and this would be one of those ways.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: I think they're using brick dust and salt to get
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: these designs, but I could be wrong.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: You've typed design on there.
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: That design on there almost even looks a little bit
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: like that rod that v rod I showed last week. Right,
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: Remember the things that even I Rose I think noticed
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: at the top, those things that looked like acorns or
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: whatever size, you know, somewhere different than the others. This
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: ship almost has the same thing on it. Man, that's
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: this is weird. It's very interesting.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: Cross over between Hittite art and Haitian art. So strangely enough,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: if it sounds alike, it is alike. How much you
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: would have bet that they were doing all sorts of
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: crazy possession rituals back then too. I think that was
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: the norm back then, to be honest, like what we
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: think of his church that was that was weird. Back then.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: It was the norm to have people, you know, possessed
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: by spirits and speaking in tongues and all the rest
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: of this stuff. So do you think these could have
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: been toppers for like staffs, because like, that's what I see.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: I see these going on top of staffs.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: I would even say maybe headdresses.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Could be that too.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: I could definitely show that one bottom on the bottom
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: left for a staff. For sure.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: We need to bring back the ostentatious staffs.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: Oh wow, I still have more. I think I still
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: have a few more things to say about this. So
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: all right, where do I leave off? Oh? Fuck? The imagery?
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: The sun disc? Why is sun disc?
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: The nickname comes from the radiating projections in the heavenly geometry.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: Of some pieces.
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: The Ankari University official note describes the disc as a
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: bronze standard about and five years ago in religious or
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: other ceremonies, likely mounted and processional hence the course of
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: the sun reading the modern Turks embraced as a cultural emblem.
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: The imagery again has a circle and a ring and
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: lattice and cosmic frame. What are imposed on space sometimes
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: have rays, birds and knobs outbound vitality. Many disc carry
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: small birds along the rim. You got horns at the base.
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: Sometimes they say that could be you know, echo yokes
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: and bovine power. Sometimes they display like a crescent and
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: eath the disk you get a stag in two bulls,
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: a persistent trio.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: You get that a lot. And again they do have.
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: Twenty two two thousand, two hundred to two thousand BCE.
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: They think the ones that they found at a locker.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: Is that old?
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it says the later bronze age is hit tight,
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: and then before that is h A T T I
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: eight And that's why I fucked up Ho tin.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Ha ti.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I've never heard of that before, So just quickly
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: looking at it and pussy on vaping, it was like,
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: oh Asian. And then I was like, wait, there's no
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: AK forty sevens in this shit. They didn't fucking make it.
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: The only thing I think when I went to d
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: O one time, like I was like close to the
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: I don't know, Haydius.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: I've never seen so many people walking around with d
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: K forty seven people.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Right, d what those they use those axes for stars
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: in voodoo as well, so that that could be something.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: And that that lattice work in the middle that looks
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: very Babylonian, like they would do their uh their holy
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: tree with that kind of lattice work.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: I think by in the middle, you know that's a waffle.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Maker, dude, right?
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: Absolutely that or that was like the original uh tennis.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Record possible probably now see that's the thing too, It's
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: like we they didn't have like mass processed food back then.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: You're not going to find a bunch of food with
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: the same shape as efferent. It's true. It's a very
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: different way of looking at food though. I mean like
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: everything was unique back then and now everything is sort
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: of the same.
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: I find the xes of the circle the X is interesting,
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: looks like well like an X obviously cross.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: Right that big sculpture that that's that's amazing. Now where
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: is that? Did did it say? Where it was?
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: Top? Left? One? That pretty sure was the one that
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: was a Luca wherever that place was?
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: He?
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Good?
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Well, that looks like a face on the outside of
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: the lattice work. Those angles could be eyes or whatever.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't see any serpents in there.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: Usually they throw some serpents in for good measure, right.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Are those things at the bottom, Oh, I think it
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: was birds.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Maybe it could be different kinds of grain like that's
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: that's kind of what I see going on there at
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: the top, different types of plants. But you've got that, uh,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: that central figure being the uh, the deer, which is
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: kind of rare. Usually it's all bulls. Yeah, but yeah,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: especially in this region, it's it's usually just all bulls,
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: but that one's a deer with a huge rock. No,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: that's very what's her name, Artemis, right, Artemission.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Right, madam? Yeah, I thought that was interesting.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: I gotta I gotta start thinking like you did, and
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: like so pulling some like normal ship out of like
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: magic easily talking about I mean I've done that with
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: like magic squaze, but I mean that's still like, that's
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: still like that basic. I kind of even figure that
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: to be like a little bit. Most people don't even
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: know what that shit.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: Is, right, that we haven't even gotten into magical languages.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Yet the whole sections on magical languages in book four
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: and in the Theria.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, on that, Oh yeah, you know it's crazy.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: It's like, yo, if you go through like a Grippa's
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: book and like you're still looking at all those different
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: alphabets and those different languages, you're like, yo, imagine like
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: a third of these are still used and we just
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: have zero clue.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: I see.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: There was a lot of fucking like languages out that was,
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: you know, supposedly used. I've never seen the ship before,
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: but I mean people still using it.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: I think all languages that are written down come from
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: magic at some point.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: In the past. To no, I have to wote that
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: as well.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: I mean why not. I think they knew magic before
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: they knew how to manage this date, and so they
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: were asking the spirits about what they should call these
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: different things, you know, because that was a constant to
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: have them develop languages based off of that that that
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: doesn't seem very improbable to me. I think magical languages
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: are actually the norm. And if that's the case, well
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: we're all speaking one giant.
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: Spell, right, yep, they say so, But that's it. We
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: don't have any mail, so guys, please, I got some.
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: I got some person we could get on for like
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: reptilian ship yeah that yeah, yeah yeah. I saw them
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: on somebody else's show and I was like, Yo, this
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: would actually be really good for this. But like they're
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: also into like the occult and other things that I
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: could talk to them, like I can have them on
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: for all this stuff besides that. But got some like whatever,
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: I I'm just like Bigfoot. I guess probably the same
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: way with reptilians. You know, my hands up in the
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: air on that one. Uh, David Ike, you know the
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: way I used to you know, the first time I
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: heard about it really was from David Ike. And the
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: way I look at him, the way he talks about it,
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: I just think it's more a cold cold really if anything.
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: But you know, not saying they don't exist, but yeah,
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: it could be interesting, so you know, fuck it. I
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: know some people are into that shit and it's a story,
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: so fuck it. We'll see what happens.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, man, Natalie Smearman too, Let's see if we can
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: get her coming on the mail bag. I think that'd
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: be great. She's had so many different experiences.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: Why not you know, she said, yeah, yes, supposedly.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: Right, So yeah, it's it's about thirty minutes. We can
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: fill the time. We hit the time. So I'd really
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: rather be listening to your story. So if you've got one,
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: send it to Headless's Magical mail Bag at the Headless
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: Giant Podcast at gmail dot com and we will read it.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Any dreams too. Magical experiences. That was great last week
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: getting people's magical experiences. And if you haven't had a
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: magical experience yet, you need to try one. Just do
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: some candle magic. It's real simple.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know, candle magic is probably like the
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: easiest thing to set up with. But then but then
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: I will say, you can complicate the ship out of
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: that and make it every.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: Advanced exactly I mean to do that. Yes, yeah, I
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: think a lot of people find that after doing like
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: their first spell, it could be real simple just to
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: get themselves, you know, motivated up and doing something. They
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: they kind of get hooked, and it's it's not really
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: in that way of moderation when you get hooked on
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. But if you can, if you
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: can be aware of it, I think it's good for
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: you to take power of your own will and actually
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: start to make stuff, you know, make changes. So if
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: you guys have any magical experiences, please send them to
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: Headless's mail bag at Headless Giant Podcast at gmail dot
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: com and we will read them. So thank you guys
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: so much. We'll see you again next time.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah,