Latest / CEOs and ABCs / Lydia Smith (Victoria's Secret, Kohl's) Transformational Leadership in Marketing and Creating Legacy through Authenticity and Open Conversations #007

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Lydia Smith (Victoria's Secret, Kohl's) Transformational Leadership in Marketing and Creating Legacy through Authenticity and Open Conversations #007 · CEOs and ABCs

• 0:00
  Kevin Rice: Welcome to CEOs and ABCs. Real stories from execs who lead at work and show up at home. Career moves, parenting, wins and fails, and everything in between. I'm your host, Kevin Rice. Here's today's episode. Today's guest is a transformational leader in inclusive marketing, diversity, equity and inclusion. Most recently, she served as the Chief Diversity Officer at Victoria's Secret, where she helped steer one of retail's most visible brands. Completely reinventing themselves in that role, Lydia built the company's first DEI team, launched a DEI Council, and embedded inclusion into every aspect of the business, from marketing to product design. Lydia's leadership isn't just professional, it's personal. Rooted in the way she shows up for her family, her community and her teams. She doesn't just talk about inclusion, she lives it. Whether she's raising her three daughters, mentoring young women of color, or sharing her own journey with authenticity and joy, Lydia reminds us that leadership is about humanity as much as it is about strategy. Her voice is one of courage, creativity, care, and it carries from the boardroom to her community and at home. In this conversation, we'll explore what it takes to embed inclusivity into the heart of a brand. The lessons learned from leading change and high profile companies, and the balance of building a career while raising a family. My guest today is Lydia Smith. Lydia, thank you so much for being here.
• 1:28
  Lydia Smith: Thanks for having me, Kevin. I'm excited for the convo.
• 1:31
  Kevin Rice: I appreciate it. I know you recently wrapped up your role at Victoria's Secret just a few months ago. So what does life look like for you now both as you think about kind of what's next in your career and at home?
• 1:45
  Lydia Smith: Yeah, I will say the first thing I did was rest. I got some really good advice early on to stay off LinkedIn. It was hard. I was, you know, trying to figure out what was next, but I just took it off my phone and took a step back and rested. Went to all the things like donuts with mom at school and those types of things that I had been missing out on and just kind of sat in a space around what next would look like for me. And I will be honest, it really happened as a progression over the last probably six months. People started calling and, you know, asking could I help with certain things, tapping into me for advice. And what it's turned into is consulting work, interim head of marketing roles for a couple of different organizations that I'm working with, and then personal and executive coaching. So. So I really spent this summer kind of rebuilding my own Business and brand, which has been amazing because I've gotten to partner with my daughter. So I have a 15 year old daughter who is a genius when it comes to graphic design, video editing. And she's been behind the scenes on everything with me. We were even one day getting our a pedicure. So we're sitting, you know, getting pedicures and we're sitting next to each other and I'm talking about a particular product project that I'm working on and I'm having her do all the graphic design work. And so I'm like, well, we need to move this because the message isn't coming through enough. I can't get the feel of the brand, the way that it looks. And she's like, okay, cool, I'm gonna do X, Y and Z. And you know, she's on her phone taking what I'm saying and putting it into action real time. And a woman and her daughter across the way and she's like, excuse me, do you do marketing work? And I said yes. And she's like, I have a nonprofit here in the city and tells me the whole story about her business. And she's like, I need, I need a person to come in and run marketing. Can we hire you too? And wow, job on the spot just from us, you know, having that conversation. So it's been an awesome summer and I've just really been resting in this season and how much fun I'm having doing work that I'm really passionate about for myself. And I think next season can look different. I'm not against going back into the right role in the corporate space, but I'm having so much fun now.
• 4:19
  Kevin Rice: That's amazing. I love that story because when you take the time to rest and you create space, you kind of allow the universe to start working for you. And if you're always going and you're always busy, you never create space for those opportunities to come to you like that. And how beautiful to get to do it with your daughter.
• 4:39
  Lydia Smith: Yeah. And I will say I think my daughters are pretty clear on what I do. I've gotten a chance to, you know, take them with me on different business trips. I talk about the work, I think they're clear what I was doing when I was at vs. But this feels different because it's mine. Right. And they see the time and the attention and the work and the passion that I'm putting into something that, you know, I'm building with the thought of legacy. Like this is something that potentially my daughter could take on if she wants to later on, I could pass down to her. And it's different when you are building something for you, no matter how passionate about your job, it is a different feeling. So I'm just grateful because to your point, I don't know that I would have gotten here without taking time to be still first.
• 5:33
  Kevin Rice: Yeah, yeah. What do you see as the difference between being in a corporate role and the more entrepreneurial venture of consulting and starting your own businesses?
• 5:41
  Lydia Smith: I would love to say the big difference is that I'm always on now, but I felt like I was always on before, like, but it is a little bit different because now, you know, we'll be sitting at the dinner table and I'll get an idea of something and I'm like, oh, we gotta do this or we didn't do this, like, and you know, like, we're talking about it and super excited about what we're building. But I think the other aspect is, and something that I miss right at this early stage of entrepreneurship, it's just me and of course the people who I may partner with from a contractual standpoint, but I do love people leadership and I love having a team and working cross functionally in such a big organization. Definitely miss that. But not to say that I won't ever do that again or I can't get back there, but that's one of the things that stands out, is that it can be somewhat lonely. Right. When you're kind of building something from the ground up on your own.
• 6:38
  Kevin Rice: Yeah, yeah. Also in a leadership role, it can be somewhat lonely. Right. If you're in a C suite role, you can't really vent down to your team. You have to carry yourself in a certain way. And I've talked to a lot of leaders who, you know, find that position to be somewhat lonely as well.
• 6:56
  Lydia Smith: It's definitely isolating. And what I, I learned more recently is I think the higher you go up in your career too, the fewer people that can help you. And so, you know, when you're manager level or early career, so many mentor options, so many people who can give you advice and who can tell you what to do because they've been there, the further you go in your career, there's fewer people who have been there, fewer people who have experienced what you've experienced. And so even when it comes to finding mentors or finding people or peers, even who you can vent to or who can help you problem solve, it gets harder. And so when you do find those communities, I think they're so valuable because that's part of what's isolating is that you feel, you get this sense or this feeling. No one else understands what I'm going through on a day to day basis. No one gets the weight that I feel in this role or no one gets, you know, the struggle that I'm having with not just trying to balance it all, but to perform and to perform at the same level. That is what got me here.
• 8:05
  Kevin Rice: Right? Yeah. How did you find ways to take care of yourself when you were dealing with stress and pressure in your career?
• 8:14
  Lydia Smith: I'm a huge journaler. I'm. I am a Christian and I believe very much in prayer journaling. For me, I feel like a scribe in the sense that when I'm writing I can get a sense of when it switches. Like I'm kind of venting and then all of a sudden it switches and it's like the answers are coming like, here's the, here's the answers to your problems. And so I'll look and I'll see. Like, I'm writing, I'm talking myself through the challenges and talking myself through the solutions. And so that's.
• 8:48
  Kevin Rice: And a lot of the words, like even feel like they're yours because they're just coming through you.
• 8:53
  Lydia Smith: That happens. And it's such a weird feeling. And you can see it when you go back and read your journal entries. You're like, you can see like the moment that, that switches from you just kind of, you know, venting and pouring out and then this. You're like, where did this come from? You know, or the idea or the spark. And so I. Journaling was my saving grace through each level of my career.
• 9:18
  Kevin Rice: I find the same thing. I try to journal nightly. I don't always get to. During the times of most struggle when I need it the most. That is the hardest time for me to journal and it's when I actually need it the most because, yeah, words come through that I don't even know where they came from. They're definitely not my thoughts, but they help me find the answers. I read a really interesting book, it's kind of a non denominational perspective, but called Conversations with God. And it's about a guy who journals and, and is basically having a conversation, you know, with his version of creator and asking questions, like really tough life questions and getting back the responses. And I just found it to be such a fascinating read because I, I experience something similar when I journal.
• 9:59
  Lydia Smith: Yeah, absolutely. And I, I spoken to different people because I. The first time I'm like, wait, what is this? Like, is this some, you know, just subconscious me that, you know, I'm like, am I speaking to myself? You know, like, what's wrong with me? Like, you know, it was kind of weir, but then as it kept happening to your point, like, I truly believe that is God speaking to me and giving me direction and the answers that I need. Whether or not I listen and do exactly what it says is a whole different topic. But I get the, get the download and then I get, you know, receive on the other end.
• 10:31
  Kevin Rice: Yeah. Did you do a lot, like, when you first took some time off after you wrapped up your last role? Are those some of the things that you did and, and what did you learn about yourself during that kind of transition and break that you took?
• 10:47
  Lydia Smith: I did. I journaled a lot. I think I finished like a whole journal that probably would have taken me a year normally, you know, to, to write through. In the course of two months, because I was writing everything down, I realized one, I'm a big people pleaser. And I didn't think that before, but in asking myself why did I make certain decisions or why did I say and do certain things or why didn't I do things that I really wanted to do and was really passionate about? It was because I was worried about what people thought and I was worried about people not approving or, you know, something that I was passionate about doing, but I didn't want it to not be successful. And so I had to spend a lot of time working through that and working through that thought process. Where did it come from? Why, why was I thinking that way? But also empowering myself to not care so much about what people thought, but also, again, extend grace for the part of me that does, because it's human and to part of you it is. And so to pretend, you know, sometimes we'll see people and you're like, oh, I want to be like that. Because they don't seem like they care what people say. They don't give, you know, they just do what they want to do and say what they want to say. And so I had to reconcile that that is not me. And while I can work through not being so much of a people pleaser that I'm not true to myself and I'm not following my own passion in my own purpose, I'm always going to be someone who cares. And so how do I balance the two? How do I stay true to that and not beat myself up for caring? Because that's who I am. That's the person who I made me to be.
• 12:32
  Kevin Rice: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's easy to glamorize what somebody else is that you are not, but they have their own struggles. And recognizing and appreciating and supporting that part of you that maybe isn't your favorite part of you is so much more supportive than, like, trying to push it down or suppress it. You know, recognizing it is there, understanding where it comes from, and that's like kind of doing the deeper inner work of, like, where did this actually start? Usually it's in early childhood when I took my career break. I did a lot of inner work. I did a lot of inner child work. I worked with personal coaches, I worked with therapists. And that ultimately led to a lot of kind of breakthroughs about how I carried myself in my career and as an early parent, before I became more conscious. So that kind of career break was really important for me to better understand myself and become more of the person that I am today. And journaling was a big part of it.
• 13:31
  Lydia Smith: Journaling for me also, I will say, in the conversations that I had and I worked, went through similar with you coaching. Right. And I had an amazing executive coach who's also a man of faith. And so the. The two would sometimes kind of cross over a little bit. And it was perfect for the, you know, where I was and then therapy and healing, not just from work, but, you know, life and things happening in my personal. But. But through all of that, what I also eventually was able to do was to get to a place where I also reconciled that had I not gone through the things that I went through, had I not had the experiences that I had, it wouldn't have shaped me. I would have been a totally different person and potentially not the person that could have been as successful as I was in the roles and in the spaces that I went to. And so it was. It's like giving yourself grace to accept that. To your point, yes, there are parts of me or pieces of me that I wish were different or that I would like to change or I would like to work on. However, those pieces were a part of what got me to this success. Those pieces and those things are a part of what molded me and shaped me and gave me the experiences so that I would know what to say or what to do in certain rooms that I walked in. And. And so I can't, you know, discredit those because that's still a part of. Of me. So I think it's. It's really powerful to be able to take a step back from performing, because it's hard to do that analysis and that type of internal work when your main focus is to perform.
• 15:13
  Kevin Rice: Yeah, yeah. I. One of the things I learned about myself in journaling, as a somewhat high achiever, I have a really hard time doing something not a hundred percent. So if I have only 30 minutes to work out, I just won't even do it because it's not even a full workout. So why do it? And in my career, I was a hundred percent in, and then I took a break and I was a hundred percent in parenting. And now I'm in this transition mode or I'm in this new phase which is about balance. And it's really difficult because I've got all these ideas and this vision for this podcast, all the things I could be doing, but I can't go a hundred percent into it without sacrificing other aspects of my life. And so it's beautiful because the podcast message is actually very supportive to where I am in my life today. And I probably wouldn't have discovered that about myself without doing some really deep inner work. The journaling helped me in my personal life, but also helped me in my career. I was curious as you were going through your career, navigating changes and dealing with stress, like, did you have moments where you discovered things about yourself that actually helped you in your career?
• 16:23
  Lydia Smith: For sure. Trying to think of the best story or the best example, because I've learned a lot along the way, I think I. So I'll give a little bit of an explanation. So I am the youngest child and the only girl in my family. And I don't know that it's like birth order or one of those two factors, just my personality or what it is, But I was just super independent, spoiled, because I was the only girl and the youngest. So, like, given a lot and no lack of attention. But I was just like, I can do it myself. From a young age. I didn't want people to do things for me. I can do it myself. I can do it myself. Let's. And I. In journaling and dealing with personal situations in my personal life, right? Like going through therapy, going through a divorce, and, you know, journaling through all of that and even getting to the place where, you know, I turn those into a book. But like, that whole process of healing, I realized that that same person that showed up in my personal relationship, shows up at work and that I can do it myself mentality and my career actually was mirroring that in that as you progress, right, you move from this you know, executor to now I've gotta be a strategy person and now I've gotta help other people to do the work. And you can't do that if you're the I can do it myself, super independent person. It's impossible. And so I bumped my head against that wall a lot in trying to make that transition and elevate. And that turned into probably one of the most consistent pieces of advice that I give to people that I'm mentoring is I think if there is a transition that I would say, at least for me and for many people I see as you elevate in your career, that is difficult. It's the one where you're moving from personal contributor and I'm the person that executes to now I'm a team leader and responsible for strategy. And that oftentimes that role, when you're making that jump, it's not either or, it's a role that you have to do both. You still have to have your hands in the execution in the day to day. You don't get to just jump up to a senior leader. That's not executing, that's just looking at the plan and the vision and telling people what to do. And I think that's how people think it looks. And that sticky, uncomfortable, weird middle place is where a lot of people get stuck. And so going through that in my personal life, getting the feedback from people that that's how I was showing up at home in my relationships and then realizing that that's how I was showing up at work too, was like, huh, makes sense now. You know, like, oh, okay, so. So yeah, absolutely. You know, your personal life, I think reflects, you know, oftentimes how you show up at work.
• 19:23
  Kevin Rice: Yeah. And how is that thinking of leadership and leading teams and not necessarily doing the execution yourself? How did that materialize in some of the work that you were most known for while you were at Victoria's Secret? Whether it was launching the DEI team or the adaptive intimates line. How did you support your team and launch those initiatives in the, in the way you just, just described?
• 19:49
  Lydia Smith: I think the best thing and the best teacher was that I had to lead without. I had to influence or lead with influence. Right. Without authority. Because, you know, leading in the DEI space, aside from my team, which is very small. Right. I'm responsible for embedding this work into other functions who have very senior leaders, people that are C suite and, you know, I don't get to tell them what to do. They, they have no true accountability to Me now, we may have shared goals, but ult, I have to figure out a way because I can't just go do it. It completely shifted, you know, that mindset because I could, I could no longer just go do the work and check the box and say, here's a great strategy, here's a great program, you know, here's a great, you know, change plan. All. I can't, I can't do that anymore. I now have to. Had to convince other people to get on board, you know, with this idea and had to create a shared vision and had to come to them with how I could help support what they wanted to do, how, you know, I could be an asset or how our strategy could be an asset to the work that they were doing. So it directly impacted how I showed up because I. In a role like chief Diversity officer, you're influencing without authority, you have to build relationships and build, you know, in a sense, partnership with people. You don't get to just do the work or, or tell people what to do.
• 21:32
  Kevin Rice: Yeah, I mean, that goes back to the idea of like assigned authority versus authentic authority. Horizontal being the more authentic and assigned being somebody who directly reports to you. One thing I've started to think about is as a parent right now, I have assigned authority. My kids, they live in my house. They have to do more or less what I say. But at some point they're going to be 18, they're going to move out of the house, and my role and my authority really changes and it has to become more authentic. Your daughters are getting a little bit closer to that age where they are going to move off to college. I saw you guys did a college tour. I'm sure that was a special trip for you guys. How have you thought about your role as a parent changing and evolving as they become adults themselves?
• 22:19
  Lydia Smith: That's a great question. I love the tie in. I hadn't even thought about that connection. And it is such a. Such a good connection, you know, for, for my daughters. So they are 15, they're sophomores in high school. So the closest thing for us right now is license and driving. Like that is right around the corner. They will be 16. And the conversation that we had is perfect example of what you said. Like right now they don't go anywhere that I don't know. I have their location, but still they're getting dropped off and picked up everywhere. In a couple months, we will get to a place where you're out in your car and even if I could check your location, I have to Trust that you're going to go where we said you're going to go and you're going to do what we said you were going to do. I'm not in the car with you. I can't tell you exactly what to do anymore. So it's a real time example of that. And the conversation that we've been having is that my idea of parenting for them is to give them guidance and to give them guardrails. And that all I can tell them is that I know because I've been there. You're going to hit the guardrail, you're going to hit it. My hope for you is that you don't flip over and go down a cliff, right? That it's so bad that it is detrimental. My job as a parent is to prepare them, to give them as much as I can tell them situations. I'm so super transparent about my teenage years and the things that I did and the mistakes that I made and everything. I want us to talk through it. So I look at now, the way that you lead in a space where you don't have authority in that moment or situation is through preparation. It's through being transparent, giving them guidance so that they can then make the best decisions with as much information as they have to do the right thing. And then giving them grace that you're going to mess up. You know what I mean? You're going to make the wrong decision and come to me. Let's talk through it. We'll work through it. But yeah, that's how, that's how I'm really thinking about this. Because they're teenagers, right? Like, I fully expect that something will happen and they will be grounded and their keys will be taken away. Like, like it's gonna happen. I have the best girls. They're amazing, but something's gonna happen. And so rather than being afraid or trying to lock in so much to, to prevent that, it's like, do I encourage them to be mindful of the guardrails and to go out there and do you know what we've talked about, what we've taught, giving them this sense even of pride in being good kids, being smart girls, so that they have that sense when they're out there?
• 25:21
  Kevin Rice: Yeah, yeah. And giving them the autonomy. I think guidance and guardrails is a great mantra, especially as an age appropriate mantra for where they're at in life. You know, a lot of kids don't get a lot of autonomy, especially when they're younger. They're just constantly told what to do.
• 25:35
  Lydia Smith: Yeah.
• 25:36
  Kevin Rice: And, you know, it's our job as parents to mentor them and obviously, you know, keep them safe, inspire them, but allow them to become who they're meant to be and not just try to, like, turn them into mini versions of us. And I think a lot of that comes from, you know, listening to them, giving them choices, hearing their voice, and. And actually, I feel like I learn a lot from my kids, you know, every single day. They're truly our greatest mirrors and our greatest teachers. And I was. I was reading maybe an interview where you talked a lot about how listening to the voice of the consumer has influenced the way you think about strategy and challenge your assumptions. And I wanted to ask you, when you've worked in kind of some of these inclusive marketing initiatives, and you talked about hearing from people of different perspectives, maybe it's disabilities. Like, were there any times where hearing directly from the consumer or customers, like, challenged the way you thought about something? Maybe your assumptions or your strategy?
• 26:42
  Lydia Smith: A thousand percent. I will always remember we were doing focus groups when we were getting ready to launch our first ever adaptive bra. And naturally, we had a bunch of women, a diverse group of women, different life stages, also different disabilities. And, you know, they were all talking about their different challenges and what that looked like. And there was a man in the focus group who had a cerebral palsy, and he spoke about the experience that he had being a man and not being able to take off his wife's bra. And when he said that, like, when I tell you, a pin could have dropped in the room one, because nobody expected to hear anything like that. But what it did for me was it opened my eyes to how as marketers, as, you know, just people responsible for product, we're in a room and we're thinking about our target audience, and we're building, you know, Personas, and we're doing all this work, and, you know, we're doing all the things, we're going through all the stages, and it doesn't matter how great you are, there's something that we're not thinking about. There's someone that we're not thinking about. There's some perspective that we're not thinking about. And it doesn't mean that you have to go back to the drawing board and change everything. And now this new perspective has to be the center or core of everything that you do. But what it taught me about inclusive marketing was that if you take the standpoint of there and you have the mindset going in that there is a perspective out there that we're not catching that. We're not. We're missing. We're not hearing. And you do your due diligence in just creating the environment and the place to hear from that consumer. It can open the door to a ton as it relates to just opportunity in the marketplace, but then also your storytelling. I mean, think about the opportunity that creates in, you know, telling the story from a different perspective. Right. And creating intimacy among two people in a marriage. And people could be missing that and what that looks like. Like, that's an emotional pool. That would have never even crossed my mind. I'm the person who's supposed to be leading inclusive marketing. Right. Like, so it just opened up my mindset in that how important this work is and that we don't always give it time and space and priority. But if we did, I just believe there are so many doors that could be open in terms of just the level of creativity and perspective that you could. Could show, even in storytelling, because we just have no idea, you know, how people are reacting and relating to the products that we create.
• 29:43
  Kevin Rice: Yeah, that's such a visceral story. Like, you can feel the emotion just hearing you recount the story, let alone if I was actually in the room hearing it. You know, there's no amount of, you know, quantitative analysis, consumer research, that's going to bring you that kind of, like, very tangible experience that people have. Yeah, that's. That's a great, great example. How do you take that sort of same openness and feedback? As a parent, do your daughters often teach you things about yourself or challenge your assumptions in ways you didn't expect?
• 30:20
  Lydia Smith: For sure, my parent, well, my mom. My mom says all the time, she's like, when you were growing up, I used to pray that you would have a daughter just like you. And I know God hears my prayers because you got three. So it's super funny when she says that, but she'll often tell me, you're trying to parent the you out of your daughter, which is a blessing in that. So we are a multigenerational household. My mom and dad live with us, and so they get to see me in action, and I respect that. My parents will pull me to the side. They don't do it in front of the girls, but they'll pull me to the side and they'll say, so you. You realize why she did that, right? You realize where she got. Gets that from? And I'm like, man, that's me. Dang it, you're right. And then, you know, oftentimes I'll Go back to them and, you know, we'll have a conversation and we'll talk through it. Because I, I do see that in being a single mother and a very independent, strong willed, strong minded person and woman, I've raised three young daughters who are the exact same way. And they ask questions and they stand up for what they believe in and they need things to make sense. They are not just a, you know, you told me to do it, so I'm going to do it. When I step into that mode and oftentimes I'll be like, I'm not asking you. That's the phrase that we use in the house that means like, okay, done asking questions. This is not, isn't a time to, for me to explain. There's, this is a safety issue or there's something I need you to just do what I'm telling you to. But, but that's how I am and that's how I raise them. Right. And so I think what they've taught me is to be true to who I say I am. You know what I mean? And if, if I am teaching them to be someone who is bold and courageous and stands up for, for what I believe in, then when I see them do it, I have to respect it, you know, and I, I have to, I have to balance, you know, you know, parenting and how I parent, how I choose to guide them in the moment with. That's how I raise them to be.
• 32:36
  Kevin Rice: Yeah.
• 32:37
  Lydia Smith: They also, I think, are teaching me in this space right now. My youngest, she is a perfectionist. And so if something is hard, super, super hard, sometimes she will choose not to do it or not to attempt to do it. Almost like your example earlier with yourself, because she needs it to be perfect. And she's not pleased and not happy with herself and feels like she did something wrong if it's not perfect. So we've been talking about, you know, and using that I can do hard things and I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Right? Like that's our scripture. That's what, that's what we say, that's what we recite. And of course, here I am, you know, not wanting to do something, you know, an opportunity that came up for me because it was going to be hard and leave it to me to be like Maddie said, I can do hard things. Maddie said I should do it. Okay. You know, like, so, so for me, it's not necessarily that they're, you know, teaching me in the sense of, they're like, here, mom, here's A lesson they're teaching me through reflecting and being little mirrors of how I'm showing up.
• 33:52
  Kevin Rice: Yeah, I don't know if my parents ever explicitly said it, but I'm sure they thought the same thing that your parents did. I ended up with three boys. And I'm sure at some point, you know, karma will come back to me because I probably wasn't the easiest son in my teenage years. But we will cross that bridge when we get to it. But yeah, I agree. Kids are certainly our greatest mirrors. I think when I, you know, took my break from work so I, I, my company was sold. I spent a year transitioning into the company that acquired us. It was a beautiful transition, Great cultural assimilation. I felt really good about taking a break and stepping out. And all of a sudden I was like, super wound up. I kind of didn't know what to do with myself. I was around my kids all the time and I noticed their temper or their frustration tolerance kind of being a little low and they would like snap and yell and I had to really take stock. And actually, to be honest, it was probably my current partner who helped me kind of like see this more clearly. But, you know, they're, they're learning it from me. I'm their only role model that they can possibly be learning these things from. Certainly there's some nature involved, but there's a lot of nurture. And when I started seeing them do things, like, one of my biggest things that I hate is that like, I chew my fingernails and I saw my kids starting to chew their fingernails, I was like, oh man, they're going to pick up everything from me. The good things, the bad things. They've got to work on this. It's still a work in progress. But yeah, our kids, they're constantly showing us who we are and especially some of the things that we don't want to look at. But if we look at the mirror and it can be our greatest growth opportunity.
• 35:35
  Lydia Smith: Absolutely. And it's hard. I will say for me, the mirror work and seeing the reflection is interesting. I had this conversation with my daughters, the 15 year olds. So it's much easier to address something at 15 and fix that behavior than to do it at 40. Right. Like, I'm doing it, I'm working on it, and I want to improve this. But I use myself as an example to say, like, let's deal with this now. Don't be me in 25 years, you know, trying to fix this habit or trying to address this thing. Like, let's, let's deal with this head on now. So I think that's the other aspect, you know, wherever we are in life and age, and you're seeing these things, and I think sometimes the gift in it isn't just for us to improve, but because we've gone through what we've gone through and we're learning it, we can help our kids to navigate in a different way often than our parents were able to help us. So I think that's some of the gift of the mirror work, too. It's. It's not just for you. It's. It's because now we've been given the opportunity to help, kind of help how they navigate through those things too.
• 36:50
  Kevin Rice: While in this most important life role of being a mother, you've also had an amazing career, and I would love for you to share any sort of career advice you might have with our listeners about how to grow in their career, how to move up, you know, the corporate ladder, if you will, and how to do it, you know, while being present for your kids. Certainly, you know, lessons learned, wins, failures, like any sort of guidance that you could share would be wonderful.
• 37:18
  Lydia Smith: Yeah, I. For me, I think the most important thing is creating a safe space within your family between you and your kids where your kids can be honest with you, honest with you about what they need, what they're not getting when you're not as present as you need to be. The new phrase that my kids use is locked in. So they'll tell me, mom, I need you to lock in. And that means, you know, put down your phone, or it may not be right in that moment. It may be like, hey, this is an important week for me. I need you to lock in. I need your help. I need your advice. I need you to be present, you know, but that's the term that they use right now. And I know when they get there, that means, like, they need me. But I've also created a space for my kids to be honest and tell me when they don't need me. And so my daughter will say, it's just a scrimmage, mom, you don't need to be there. Go do something else. Or, this is a game you need to be at. This is a big game, and I want you to be there front and center, you know, cheering me on. Oh, but I created that through relationship and through having transparency in those conversations with my kids, which has actually allowed me to create space to do things that I want to do when I need to in prioritizing my career. So I missed the soccer game because I was at a board meeting in New York or I needed to present or I was invited to speak at a conference. And I don't have that mom guilt because we've had the conversation and we've talked about what's really important and they understand what I'm doing. I think the more your kids can respect and understand the work that you do and that you love to do it and you create that two way conversation, the easier it is and the less of that guilt that a lot of people feel for making the choices. And then I would just say the choices are the choices. I don't have a, you know, rosy glass, overflowing, full type of view of all of this. I know I will drop some balls here and there. I know that some things won't work out. I know that, you know, I'll disappoint some people on both sides here and there. But I, I intend to never get to a place where I am a disappointment to my kids. And I think that's a big difference. Disappointing them being a disappointment. And that's how I always position it. I prioritize my kids and still managed to climb up the corporate ladder. And I think I've done that because I felt comfortable enough and they knew what I was doing, that I didn't feel bad when I had to choose work, when I had to be where I needed to be, or lock in, in that sense for work so that I could perform and spend time building relationships. And then the last thing I would say is just go where what you want to do is valued, be it a place, be it a culture and a company where people understand what it's like to have kids and to manage, both to be parents and to be the parent, whether they're a single parent or co parenting or, you know, in a marriage. And they're both there, but they're a present parent and they understand what that looks like because all leaders don't. And so I just. My advice to people is always to think about the places where you go and where you want to work and build your career, if that's what you want to do while you're maintaining a family, and then be unapologetic about making those choices.
• 40:48
  Kevin Rice: You kind of strike me as somebody who is a very like fierce protector of your family, whether it's their emotions or creating space for them to communicate with you. At one point you were sharing with me a little bit about how you take that same approach with, you know, your leadership and how that's part of Your, you know, kind of career advice as well. Could you share a little bit more about how you think about supporting or protecting, you know, the. The leadership above you in your career?
• 41:16
  Lydia Smith: Yeah, I think that's super important. Whether it's your team or, you know, the people above you. I think the earlier you learn the importance of not just protecting yourself, but ensuring that your leader looks good. Good. Your leader's leader looks good. You know, oftentimes we're in situations, you know, early on in our career, we're the ones who are putting together presentations and decks for someone else to go into a room full of big people and they kind of get the credit for the work and all of that that the team did. And I remember being that person early on and thinking, man, this is a fair. I'm the one who knows all the ins and outs and who can answer all the questions. I'm the one who should be in that room. I think that's human. I don't think there was anything wrong for thinking that or feeling that. But what I realized is there was definitely time wasted and relationships that weren't, I would say, stewarded or poured into that could have been because I was thinking that instead of thinking, let me make sure they are a rock star. Let me make sure they show up the best in that room. Let me make sure they are shining, they know I'm team them, I'm super supportive. You know, they can come to me with anything because if they look good, the team looks good, the team looks good, and they elevate, we all get attention. Right. And so to your point, being like a fierce protector of your. Your manager, your leader, your boss, and, you know, how they're showing up, which is also a reflection of the work that you're doing, I think is a huge lesson learned. And the earlier you start doing that, the better.
• 43:05
  Kevin Rice: Yeah. You mentioned legacy a few times earlier. How do you hope that your children see, you know, when they look back on your career, how do they hope that you see how you carried yourself, how you led in your career, but also, you know, how you showed up at home?
• 43:22
  Lydia Smith: We joke around and I say a lot. Like, they'll tell me, actually, they'll say, like, mom, you're a boss. And. And I think about, what does that mean? And I think what it means is I'm leaving a legacy, that. That they see me standing up and showing up as my authentic self in places that they see that I'm not just a people leader or someone who's, you know, just doing a job day to day. But I'm someone who leads with authenticity and am passionate about the work that I do. So my hope is that the legacy of that is that they will show up in whatever fields or industries or whatever they choose to do with their life with that same authenticity, with that same boldness. And then it's shifting, because as I've really spent this summer building my own consulting business, and my daughters have been here and they've been seeing me do the work, it's shifted in. My definition of legacy is like, I want to build something that I can pass on to them. I can't pass on the title at a company to them, but I can pass on this business. And this is something that we've done, we can do together. I mean, one of my daughters is my graphic designer. She's doing all kinds of work. And it's amazing because we're sitting together places, talking about the work we're doing, and people hear us talking and they're like, wait a minute, you guys do marketing? Can we hire you? Just based off the conversation I'm having with my daughter. And so it's definitely shifted this summer after having that time away and now being in this space and having an opportunity to build something that's mine, that can be ours. My sense of legacy is the work ethic that they see. They see the commitment, they see the passion, and being able to pass that down to them is. I mean, I don't know. That's where it's at.
• 45:19
  Kevin Rice: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being here with me today. Honestly, I think you are an incredibly inspiring person, and I appreciate how authentically you showed up today with a lot of, like, candor and vulnerability and sharing some really touching stories. I wish you the best of success in this next venture and building your business, and I look forward to staying in touch. Thank you so much for being on today.
• 45:42
  Lydia Smith: Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
• 45:44
  Kevin Rice: If you're enjoying this conversation, make sure to hit subscribe so you don't miss future episodes. CEOs and ABC's is all about helping you grow in your career and show up at home. We've got many more amazing guests coming up, so tap, follow, and stay tuned.