Latest / Justice For / Kenzie Houk

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Kenzie Houk · Justice For

• justice for: When we think childhood, we think about beginnings. The beginning of friendships, the beginning of dreams, the beginning of discovering who we were and who we might become. We remember school pictures and birthday parties, summer afternoons that seemed to last forever, the feeling that life was still endlessly ⁓ stretching out in of us. Childhood is often remembered as the safest chapter of our lives. The chapter before heartbreak, before tragedy, ⁓ before we learn. Just how complicated the world can be. But for some families, that in a sense is shattered far sooner than it should be. Welcome back to another episode of Justice Four. We are your host. I'm Jackie. And I'm Sam. I'm actually really excited to read this. ⁓ I heard about this case this week ⁓ and I was like, yeah. I knock that shit out like that. Because I I mean sometimes you can though. Some of them you just you you get into it and all the info is here and you just you love it, you know? Yes. In this case, like there's just certain cases that you hear that just like sticks with you. And this was one of them for me. Okay. I'm excited. You'll understand. You'll understand why. So, but first and foremost, shameless plug. ⁓ yes. Please go follow us on all of our socials Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Spotify, Apple, Audible. Everywhere. Absolutely everywhere. And apparently we're on places we didn't even know 'cause we've had a huge spike in like listening platform. So if you guys ever just want to like drop where you listen, we would absolutely love that. Like in a review or a Facebook comment or something like that, 'cause I'd love to know where everyone's listening from. Like location and platform. Yeah, I would love that. Please. That'd be cool. Another little plug before we get started. I know we talked about it at the end of another episode, but CrimeCon twenty twenty seven has been announced for Orlando. Mm-hmm. ⁓ we are gonna be putting in our application for Creator Row Podcast Row, but we are also planning on being there. We are gonna be there one way or another. We are gonna be there whether we are on podcast row or we're hanging out with you guys at panels and other things. Yeah. So ⁓ tickets are up. There are podcasts who have discount codes out there. We aren't one of them, but you can find them. Yeah. ⁓ get your ticket sooner rather than later. Also book your hotel. It's Orlando. Come find us at Universal University. Universal or Disney at some point. ⁓ But yeah, I just wanna put that out there. It's gonna be a good time. Yes. ⁓ really quick, I do wanna give one more shout out to our friends over in the UK. Shadow cards. Yes. If you are into any type of ⁓ trading cards, like game trading cards, Pokemon, they have Disney ones. They have so many of ⁓ I don't even know. It's crazy. They're really it's actually kind of fun. I've sat on it on a couple of their streams just to sit there and Sit there and watched them like rip open. I'm like, I don't know what any of these cards are, but it's just fun watching it. Yeah. I'm fucking weird. I don't get it. But hey, shout out to you guys for supporting us. We absolutely adore you. And also we saw your comment on Spotify. Thank you. Yes. He Shadow is the name of the main guy on there. And he actually was like, that it was the Mark Kilroy episode, right? He was like, I love that episode. I'm like, Okay. Weird, but all right. So all right, man, good free. Whatever. But yeah, they're wonderful. If you are into trading cards, please go hit them up on Whatnot. They are only on Whatnot. ⁓ but remember they are in the UK, so shipping is expensive. But he has some good shit. Might as well. So let's get into this. Are you guys ready? the morning February twentieth of two thousand nine, ⁓ some tree trimmers working at a house when one worker noticed that a little girl was banging on the door crying and screaming that her mom was dead. The worker called the police and when they showed Like banging on the door from the inside? Yes. Okay. Mm-hmm. ⁓ And when they up when the police showed up, they walked into the bedroom to find a woman laying in a Pool of her own blood with a shotgun wound to the back of her head. This woman was identified as 26-year-old Kenzie. Okay. Never done that before. I don't know. know you've never opened an episode with what happened. I know. I know. Kenzie Marie Houck was born on April 20th of 1982 in Newcastle, Pennsylvania, to Jack and Deborah Houck. Kenzie came from a close-knit family. Though much of her early life remained private, those who loved her described a woman who identified like as a deeply rooted in her family. By the time she was in her twenties, her greatest pride wasn't a career or personal accomplishments. It was being a mother. Okay. Her daughters were the center of her world. Friends and family described her as loving, devo and very devout to her children and fiercely protective of the people she cared about. Okay, okay. Liking her, liking her. She was the mother of two daughters, Janessa and Adeline. And like many young mothers, much of her world revolved around providing a good life for those girls. And like many single mothers, much of her life revolved around balancing the responsibilities of parenthood and trying to create stability for her family. Everything she did seemed to come back to make sure they were safe, loved, and cared for. In 2008, Kenzie, being a single mom, she was also a hairdresser at the time. raising her two daughters named Janessa and Adeline by herself. Our cheetah print dress makes more sense now. Mm. Two thousand nine, two thousand eight. Mm-hmm. Then she ended up reconnecting with a guy named Chris Brown. No, not that Chris Brown. I think it's weird how many episodes we have that have a name that we have to be like, no, not this. Not this guy. Yeah. Yeah. The two had actually known each other since they were teenagers. But as adults they found themselves in similar places in life. Okay. There really isn't a lot about Chris due to the light of this case being on so many other people. I only have like a little bit of information on him. All right. I mean that that does tend to happen sometimes. Absolutely it does. Chris worked at a table factory and was I always forget there's factories for things like that. We worked at a ⁓ down here in the springs we have a lock factory. It makes the locks. That's yeah, and I had a client who worked there and that was like, I just forget like obviously we learned about the industrial revolution, but like I forget about factories. Dead ass. Dead that's totally fair, yeah. So he worked at a table factory. He was also a parent. He was dad. So here's a single dad, she's a single mom. Yeah. We vibed in high school. You know what? This is this is the story of about a third of my senior class. Yeah. But Chris was navigating the challenges of raising a child while trying to build a stable future for himself. Friends described him as a hardworking father who enjoyed hunting and the outdoors. Okay. What began as a relationship between two people eventually became blending two families together. Were there kids like similar ages? So Jordan, ⁓ who is Chris's son, is eleven. Okay. And the girls were seven and four. Like at the time of them getting together or at the time of what happened? At the time of what happened. Okay. But it was ⁓ just a year prior. Okay. So about same same ages in there. Okay. So I mean those are ten, six, and three. Those are easy kind of ages to blend together. They're all kind of kids. They all play together and stuff like that. And you know, we got one going to middle school, but Those are those are good ages to blend into, you know? It's not like we're taking teenagers or absolutely. Yeah, yeah. ⁓ so for ⁓ Kenzie and Chris, the relationship appeared to move quickly in a very positive direction. Family members said that they were deeply in love and were making plans for their future together. Eventually, Kenzie and her daughters actually moved to Chris's farmhouse in rural western Pennsylvania, where Chris lived with Jordan. The home sat on 40 acres. I feel like that's huge. That is a lot of land. So you've been in my parents' house. Yeah. Their house sits on ten acres. That's only ten. Yeah. God damn. Yeah. This thing is huge then. Yeah. There's is ten acres and I showed you what goes past back past the barn and then the driveway. That's where it starts. Yeah. And then like a little bit back from where she got married is like that length, you know, from in front of the house to that. And then the width, yeah. This is a four times fucking four times the size of my parents' house. And lot, yeah. Yeah. So again, the house sat on the forty acres in a quiet area near ⁓ Wampum. I know. Surrounded by a second? Nope. Wampum. Surrounded by the ⁓ kind of like countryside where neighbors often knew one another and hunting was a normal part of life. Yeah. So when you live on property that big and in certain areas, like you can hunt on your property. Mm-hmm. ⁓ you have to clear it with your neighbors. So like in Franktown you can hunt on your own property for deer and other stuff, as long as you have tags, but you just have to let your neighbors know that you're Hey, I'm shooting. Yes. Makes sense. And obviously safety and all the other things. But it's like not when you live in town on like one acre. You have to live on like the bigger lots out in the more rural areas. So Wampum is a tiny borough, not a town, not a city, a borough in the Pittsburgh metro area. ⁓ yeah. Are we like kinda getting into Amish country a little bit or not quite to like Amish country? I don't think not quite. But we're we're moving More West. So. Okay. Yes. The population of Wampum in the twenty twenty census was five hundred and fifty-seven. ⁓ shit. Tiny town. Borough. B it's a borough, not a town. Okay. yes. Don't worry. The only notable person worth mentioning from here is an NHL player. ⁓ but he plays for the Dallas Stars, ⁓ and that makes me upset, so I don't want to mention him. So nobody cares. It's unfortunate he plays for a shitty hockey team. I agree. Anyway. ⁓ like I mentioned earlier, but because I like it I have nothing else further to say about the Pittsburgh Steelers. We are literally outside of Pittsburgh and she doesn't even have a Pittsburgh comment in here and I love it. I wore this hoodie for my reason. That's enough. All right. Yep. ⁓ like many blended families, there was an adjustment period for them. Of course. Suddenly there were two adults, three children, different parenting styles, different routines, and the challenge of bringing separate lives together under one roof. But by many accounts, the family seemed to be settling into a rhythm. And then Chris asked Kenzie to marry him. ⁓ I thought it was gonna be something bad. No, it's all gay. I was like, why would Yay engagement? Obviously, she said yes. Then another piece of exciting news. Was she pregnant? Kenzie got pregnant. Beautiful. Now we're like a super blended family. This is awesome. Family members later recalled that Kenzie was just absolutely overjoyed. She had washed baby clothes, prepared the nursery, organized diapers, and made sure everything was ready for his arrival. Yes, I have a little boy. His when she told the kids they were excited, especially Jordan, because he's always wanted a younger brother. They also already planned the name and they were gonna name baby boy Christopher after Chris. Okay. Jordan had a good relationship with Kinzie and ref even referred to her as mom. ⁓ I love that. ⁓ I I'm gonna put here I know zero information about his biological mother. Okay. I mean sometimes that's just not available to find. I ⁓ I wasn't gonna look into it. ⁓ gotcha. Personally. But ⁓ even though they had this good relationship, that doesn't necessarily mean life was perfect. Well, no. I mean it's a blended family, you're raising small kids You're putting two things together that have been operating as single units for so long. Yeah. So Absolutely. So there was likely disagreements, frustrations, growing pains, just as there are in many out as even households. You get that even when you're not a family. You know what mean? Yeah. But from the outside looking in, there was little indication that anything catastrophic was about to happen. She was engaged to the man she loved. Her daughters were growing up beautifully. And they had a baby boy on the way. The nursery was almost ready, the ki clothes were washed, and then by February of two thousand nine, in just a matter of weeks, her family was about to welcome their newest member. The morning of the twentieth was like any other day. Chris left for work around six forty five AM, even after Kenzie asked him to stay home, leaving her with the children. Janessa, who was seven, went to wake Jordan up, who was eleven at the time. Jordan went downstairs to change since he was currently in the process of moving rooms because his current room is what was being turned into the nursery. Okay, that makes sense. And it was right next to Kenzie and Chris's room. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. Janessa and Jordan sat and watched T V as they ate breakfast. But around eight AM, Kenzie came down and ushered them out of the house to catch the bus so they weren't late. Okay. At approximately eight fifteen AM, Jordan and Janessa left the farmhouse and walked down the snowy drive to catch the school bus. All right. ⁓ Adeline was still asleep at this time. So Kenzie decided to go back to bed since she, you know, was eight and a half months pregnant. And I personally don't know, but I've been told that's like a very tiring thing. Growing a human is exhausting in ways you've never even known. And especially with her chasing what, a four-year-old around the house at this point. And then we also have a seven and eleven year old just like testing your patience with watch this and let me show you this. And they don't stop talking, which I know is real rich coming from me, but you know. yeah, no, it's exhausting. So this is where everything happened that I mentioned earlier. Kenzie ended up getting shot in the back of the head. The wound was catastrophic and she died almost instantly. Unfortunately, baby Christopher also died. But like what happened before like how what what I'm we can't just go from taking a nap to now being shot. I'm gonna need some in between details. I understand. Investigators would later determine there were no signs of a struggle, and whoever pulled the trigger either encountered Kenzie while she was sleeping or caught her completely unaware. So she was in her bed? Yes, she was. She was in her bed in her bed. Okay. For nearly an hour, no one knew what had happened. Then around nine ten AM is when the crew of the tree trimmers arrived near the property. One of the workers noticed the banging on the door. Mm-hmm. The ⁓ Adeline standing in the doorway crying. The worker run runs over, sees Adeline. ⁓ she was just standing in the doorway, like with the door open. She was banging on the door. Okay. Trying to get his attention or get someone's attention. It's probably a larger door or something that she can't like open on her own, which I mean at four years old I Yeah. Teach them to open the front door. It but she was head or miss. She was crying and screaming over and over, Mommy's dead. Quote, Mommy's dead. The workers actually entered the home and they are the ones that discovered Kenzie's body in the bedroom. They called 911 immediately immediately, but there was nothing that anyone could do. The police even tried CPR, but Kenzie and her unborn son were gone at that time. Investigators quickly descended on the farmhouse. Actually, I want to put this in here really quick because I didn't put it later. So the They didn't notice right away that she had a gunshot wound. It was the coroner that figured it out and told them. Hold that tidbit. Well, you said she was shot in the back of the head? Yes. It depends on was she laying face up or face down. She was on her side. She has longer hair. I mean, heck, there's that there's multiple stories of people who have been shot in the head and literally got up and like drove to the ER or drove somewhere before they realized that they were shot in the head because of the way that a bullet grazes. With a shotgun? No, but also like they got up and like brushed their teeth and looked in the mirror and did not see any of why can't I think of his name? You know I'm talking about, right? The g Ryan that got shot literally in the face in his eye. And didn't know that he was shot in his eye. There's also another one of this ladies, she was in bed asleep, and her husband shot her, and the bullet went straight on the top of her head, like through like that line on your brain, and just skimmed the whole top. She like got up, she brushed her teeth, she got ready for the day. She's complaining about headache. Yeah, She was sitting downstairs and was like What? Yeah, and she like had a headache, and it wasn't until like she picked her daughter up or somebody was like, I think there's something wrong. So I mean that's the only thing I'm saying is that like I forgot it was a shotgun for a second, but I am saying that there have been cases where you don't necessarily realize somebody was shot at first. That's fair. Totally fair. So investigators quickly descended on the farmhouse. And at first there was no obvious suspect. They actually believed that she just had some kind of hemorrhage because again, the coroner is the one that was like, ⁓ no, brother, that's a h that's a gunshot wound. They called Chris at work and told him to come home immediately, not telling him what happened. Cop met him outside and broke the news to him about not only Kenzie, but baby Christopher also dying. And he just completely collapsed in the yard and crying. ⁓ I know. The detective set up a mobile crime lab in the yard within an hour of them getting there. They started collecting evidence, you know, like as as one does, you know. I'm glad that we're not having a horrible time with that part. Yeah. There was no clear murder weapon since nothing was left behind at the scene. But remember how I said that Chris and Jordan like hunting? Yeah. So they had multiple guns on the property. Six of them to be exact. And they actually went turkey shooting like just days before the murder. Okay, okay. One of the guns collected was a twenty gauge shotgun, and one of the troopers picked it up, smelled the barrel of it, and was like, ⁓ this smells like it's been fired recently. Okay. They also found three twenty gauge casings outside the yard. Two of them were spent and one of them was still like unspent and in good condition. The investigators figured that the killer had all of them in his pocket and dropped it on the way out either on purpose or by accident. So are we not gonna assume that the killer was outside the house? I mean, if we live in a farmhouse out on forty acres, it's not beyond to have the windows open. And shooting through a screen wouldn't be hard. And I could see if she was laying on her side or if she saw something and went to get up out of bed. ⁓ now is also a good time to point out that the gunshot was close range, if not point blank. Never mind. Disregard everything I just said. Yeah. ⁓ I also don't know if I mentioned it or not. I did, actually. I made a small little comment, but it was a very snowy moring morning. ⁓ so we'd have footprints. There was snow on the ground, so they were checking for footprints to and from the house, tire tracks, anything they could possibly think of. Yeah. But that morning there were kids headed out to the bus, tree trimmers walking around the property, and now cops everywhere. The crime lab came messing up up, any tire marks everything. So Yeah, I guess by the time you have paramedics and EMTs and all the tree trimmers walking around like it's gonna be hard to find. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And if a tree trimmer walked up to the front door, walked into the house, left. Yeah, it's so obviously they turned their attention to the first usual suspect. Chris. Mr. Chris Brown. But he had a solid alibi. He was at work and they confirmed he arrived by seven AM. And his reaction was usually on normal yeah. Yeah, you know, I was couraging you off of that. Mm-hmm. They also tested his hands ⁓ for gunshot residue, but they didn't any. So he was cleared quickly. The police decided to actually go to the school and speak to Jordan and Janessa, but they didn't tell them about the murder and that Kenzie was dead. They were just asking him about their morning. Okay. Which like good on them. Yeah. Who wants to ambush a child like that? Jeez. Jordan told them how Janessa woke him up, they had bre like how he went downstairs, they had breakfast. Kenzie told them to hurry up, go on their way. They left and went. Janessa told them the exact same thing. Almost almost verbatim, you know. The kids also spoke to the bus driver who I don't know if you I we didn't have this, probably because I'm from the city. But like I had to walk a few blocks to get on my bus. They got picked up out of their fucking house. My bus picked me up at my driveway. ⁓ because My other bus stop was a quarter of a mile from the house down the street and the bus then drove right past my house. So my bus driver like, I'm picking you up at the bottom of your driveway. And let's get even more like you grew up in the city and I caught the bus in the country because my bus driver would actually wait at the bottom if I wasn't there yet. Like she would wait for a minute or two to see if I was like running down or something. Aww. Yeah, no. So I had an awesome bus driver. But yeah, no, so there is Definitely bus stops are at your driveway generally when you're out there. I had to walk like two or three blocks to get to my bus. Yeah. So and also it's not unheard of to have like little shelters out there by the bus for like the weather and everything else. Yeah, that makes total sense. But so the cops did speak to the bus driver who told them the kids were walking to the bus normally. No one was crying or screaming. They didn't even run or frantic. They weren't running to the bus. Like everything seemed fine. Janessa was a little bit ahead of Jordan, but I mean it's a forty fucking acre property and long driveway, I'm sure. She could be a faster walker than he is or Exactly. ⁓ but wait. Jordan told the police something else. What? That when he was getting on the bus, he saw a big black truck, an F one fifty specifically, parked near their house. He didn't recognize it. Weird. Yeah. Police asked Chris, Kenzie's mom, her sister, her brother in law, and her best friend. Who the hell would have wanted to do this to her? Or who could have done this to her? Were they the only one getting on like at that bus stop? Mm-hmm. Cause my dad used to sit like if it was really cold or snowing and stuff, like this, he would drive me down and I we'd sit in the truck until the bus got there so I didn't have to stand out there. Nope. But like sometimes like like we had so a street a house down from me, those kids when they started going to school, we just made like my house the bus stop. So they just walked up a house or two. So I just didn't know if there was other kids that could have also like had another parent sitting waiting. Nope. Okay. Nope. Just gotta have just gotta have a thing. I get it, I get it. So who could who would have wanted to do this to her? Or who could have done this to her? Every single person who was close to Kenzie, every single one of them said the exact same person. Was it her baby daddy or ex husband? His name was Adam Harvey. Who the fuck is Adam Harvey? I got five bucks on baby daddy or ex husband. Well, my dearest listeners, and let me tell you about Kenzie's extremely abusive ex boyfriend. Is he baby daddy too? Just listen. No. Yeah. Trust me. Trust me. ⁓ Adam and Kenzie dated each other for six years ⁓ and lived together in North Carolina. They had broken in early two thousand eight and that's when she up moving to Pennsylvania where she reconnected with Chris. Okay. ⁓ She was ⁓ very, ⁓ very afraid of him. Very fucking afraid of him. But also good on you for leaving. And moving states. Mm-hmm. She even had two separate restraining orders against him. The first one was granted due to her and her entire family because he kept threatening to kill them, including her. Yeah. So every single person in her family had a restraining order against this motherfucker. Okay. ⁓ and the second one was granted when they learned that he owned firearms. Pennsylvania has a protection from abuse law. Okay, loving I'm loving this. ⁓ it's called a PFA ⁓ law. That is a civil law that seeks to perfe protect victims, which I personally think is cool. ⁓ So basically they can issue further protective orders trying to keep someone safe if this specific person ends up being Go Pennsylvania. I agree. Like go Pennsylvania's two of them against him and all of her family. Okay. Do you think that stopped him? Hell no, it's just a piece of paper. Fuck no, it didn't stop him. So anyway, she left North Carolina, moved to Pennsylvania, right? Well in October, so four months before the murder, he followed her and moved ten miles away from her. Okay. Well then. Yeah. He found out that she had moved on and was pregnant and he lost his fucking mind. He was calling her and her mom all the fucking time, leaving threatening voicemails saying he's gonna tell he's gonna kill them or get someone else to fucking kill him because he has sketchy fucking friends. But wait, isn't isn't that what the the protection order is supposed to stop? Yeah, that's crazy, right? Yeah, isn't isn't that what that means? Uh-huh. They reported it multiple times. Did it do anything? But like he didn't get arrested for violating the order? No, ma'am. ⁓ really quick though, let's do the math here because she's already mentioned it a couple times. So Kinsey's youngest daughter is four, right? And they were together for six years. It makes sense that he would be daddy, right? He's not, is he? Well, when Kenzie decided to leave Adam, she asked him for child support, and he was like, let's do a paternity test just to be safe. Seven days before Kenzie was found murdered, the results came back that Adam was not the father of Adam. So ⁓ according to the Associated Press, the night before the murder, Adam actually went to a nightclub. Yes, a nightclub to pick up food. I have never personally wanted to order food at a nightclub. Actually, the Burlaby here in town, they are also supposed to be a really good Italian place. And it always smells really good, but I've never I've only gotten there after like ten PM. Yeah. ⁓ But anyway, so he was picking up food and Kenzie's parents actually happened to be there. You know what, Kenzie's parents, get it. Being out of the nightclub. Get it. You know what? That's gonna be me. Gr grandparents in the nightclub. Grandparents in the nightclub. Period. ⁓ But he saw them and yelling and screaming at them to the point like where security ended out ended up kicking out all of them. Is this just a hanger? Hanger problem. Does he just does he just need to eat? I'm just kidding. That's not a good joke to make, but you know what mean? Mm-hmm. But I mean, the parents also got kicked out, so they were fucking fighting back. I mean, honestly, I'm over this man's shit at this point. Which is crazy. Like, call the cops at that point because you have a protection order against this man. Hello? Hello? Like, I wonder if it's one of those things where like if he's going to pick up dinner, like he like has connections or like personally knows people who were working in their other stuff. And so it was like the reason that they both got kicked out was because nobody was listening to them about the protection order that they had and they were trying to be like, no, like he needs to be removed. This is him. And like in that you're just this has been going on for so long that you just maybe you know? Yeah. So the cops learned all of this information, right? They ended up finding him and instantly bringing him in for questioning. He Obviously denied having any involvement and even went on to say that he wasn't even mad about the paternity test because now he just doesn't have to pay her money. Right. Mm-hmm. Right. He did say that the morning of the murder, he was asleep at his parents' house. ⁓ he said he showed up around 10 p.m. and was there until about 9 a.m. And I'm a fairy princess. Same. His dad said he was there, like corroborated that he was there and never left. until the morning. They ended up seizing his truck the same day, which was an F one fifty. Black, by the way. You know who else's family corroborated somebody being at the house? Mia Campos's boyfriend's family. Just saying. ⁓ So they seized his black F one fifty. Huh. The same day. Also, you know what? I'll We're gonna touch on that later. mind. So they seized his truck and then they said there's still snow on the truck. So it wasn't warm enough to melt any of the snow on it. They did also check in for gunpowder residue, and there was none. I also want to Well, hold on, how many hours after all of this did they get to his truck? I also want to point out that this was hours after the murder. I don't know how many hours, but it took a while. Like it was later in the day. But so she was found, let's say it was like nine nine ten AM is when the tree trimmer showed up. So I'm assuming the police showed on the bus around like eight fifteen. Approximately eight fifteen in the morning. Okay. And if it's a cold snowy day, it's not gonna take that long for his truck to cool back off and start getting snow on top of it again. Yeah. I ⁓ just for a little segment that I have a little bit later, I did just say he said he left around nine AM. Right? Yeah. He got at to his parents' house around ten PM and stayed and was slept all day until about nine AM. And then he left to go to some store or some show. Okay, well that's a lie. But honestly, we're talking he's ten miles away? Yes. I mean I have on a snowy morning driven a Manitou, come home, then driven out to Powers to work, and honestly within a few hours my car is covered in snow again and it doesn't matter that it was engine warm on top. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. ⁓ so Yeah, they let ⁓ go. Of course they did. Because I mean what what what else are we gonna do? Because you know, the hood of his car wasn't warm. And he didn't have gunpowder residue on his hands. ⁓ yeah, 'cause gloves don't exist in the snow. Yep. Weird. Interesting. Yep. So Chris had to tell the kids that Kenzie was gone. Could you imagine? That's horrible. Especially 'cause he wasn't those ki those girls' father. Yeah, and he now he has to tell them and How awful. Had they gotten married? Or no, not yet. Nope. They were just engaged. Okay. I need you to buckle up. I'm wearing my buckle up shirt, so I'll just double buckle over top of it. Okay. Cool, cool, cool. The kids didn't sleep that night. Obviously. They were also still in the same house. Mind you. I hate that. It's just so weird and creepy, man. I wonder where Chris slept. Probably on the couch or in the room with the kids. Like not their room, but the kids. Yeah, I know what you're saying. But finally, the kids fell asleep. And Chris was finally taken over by the exhaustion of the day until 3 30 AM when he was woken up by pounding on his front door and the police were there to make an arrest. They let themselves in and they go and arrest 11-year-old. Jordan Brown for the murder of Kenzie How. Why it? But like but Janessa didn't hear a gunshot. Hold on to that thought. Hold on to that thought. But he was Hold on to the hold on to your thoughts. I had a partial thought whenever you said that he was behind her going to the bus. Uh-huh. But like He wasn't that far behind her. He wasn't that far behind her. And you know, he's a boy and he's eleven and like putting shoes on and other stuff. Like I wasn't reading too much in that, but I did have him in the back of my head that I didn't think that's where this was going. Yep. They ended up taking him to county jail. By the way, not Juvie. But they didn't test his hands for gunpowder. Hold on, hold on to that thought. They put him in the smallest jumpsuit that they could and gave him a mugshot. Which you will see here, which she just saw for the first time as well. Excuse me. Chris instantly called an attorney for his eleven year old son. And here are the grounds for his arrest. Are you ready? No. Okay. Jordan was the was one of the last people known to be inside of the house before Kenzie was found dead. He lived there. He had access to the shotgun that was given to him at Christmas. The gun smelled like it had recently been fired. They also tested some of his clothes, and there was some evidence of gunpowder residue, but only a few particles. And according to some family members, He wasn't actually thrilled about the upcoming arrival of a new baby. They did interview Jordan and Janessa a couple more times that specific evening as well. ⁓ when Jordan was asked about that black truck again, his story actually changed. And the lights on the truck was the biggest part of it changing, was that the lights changed. ⁓ and now all of a sudden there was also a person inside of the truck wearing a white hat and was crouching down like trying to hide inside of the truck. They asked if he threw anything out of his pockets while he was walking to the bus, and he said quote, I don't think so. If I did, maybe it was lint from the dryer or something, end quote. So detectives began building a theory of what they believe had happened that morning. According to investigators, Jordan had become resentful of Kenzie's pregnancy. They alleged that he was so unhappy about sharing his father's attention, and he was pissed about having to change rooms and was just so upset about all of the changes that was taking place within this family. Prosecutors would later argue that Jordan had carefully planned the murder. waiting until his father left for work before shooting Kinsey as she slept. according their theory, he left the weapon behind in the spot it's supposed to be. walked to the bus stop throwing out the shell casings and went to school as though nothing had happened. Okay, so do we have fingerprints on the shell casings or the shotgun? 'Cause he's eleven. He's not gonna wear gloves for this. I mean his fingers were on the gun 'cause it was his and they just went shooting. Okay, so what about the shell casings? n we're gonna touch on the shell casings in a bit. But now I wanna touch back on Janessa. When they questioned her later as well. Okay. She was questioned four separate times on this single day. Okay. The first two times everything was normal. She kept saying the same thing, but then by the third or fourth time, something changed. She said she saw Jordan moving his guns that morning. And while she was waiting for Jordan to come back downstairs before they went to the bus, she heard a loud boom. This was the shocking allegation. Not only because of the brutality of the crime, but because Jordan was 11. Most children his age were worried about homework and video games and recess. Now investigators were suggesting that an 11-year-old had executed a pregnant woman and her unborn child. The public reaction was fucking immediate. Many people found it absolutely impossible to believe. Others pointed to notorious cases involving juvenile killers and argued that age alone did not make someone incapable of murder. But like But like how's she not gonna have that in any of her original stories? I wanna know what questions were being asked to her when this happened. Mm-hmm. I wanna know how they were asking her questions because like all of a sudden now she's gonna talk about guns and talk about a noise. We're gonna come back to it. Okay. Yeah? Okay. So Jordan was eventually moved to a to a juvenile detention center in Erie, which was two hours from where they lived. So four hours round trip. Okay. Chris drove up there every single day to visit him. He actually ended up losing his job because of it. I was about to say I figured that as much. Yep. He asked Jordan, Did you do this? Even if it was an accident, just tell me. I love you. I want to fight for you. You just need to tell me. Like he wasn't gonna be mad, you know, the normal parent thing. I'm not gonna be mad. I just need to know. I just need to know. And every single time Jordan said, no, I didn't do this. And his story never changed once when he was talking to Chris about it. Chris did it say that grieving Kinsey and his baby would have to take a back seat so he could fight for his son. Now, Kinsey's family was originally like, no, Jordan wouldn't have done this. The family was happy together. Like they loved each other. Yeah. But then all of a sudden they changed up real fucking fast. They started saying that Jordan was a murderer and he needed to be tried as an adult and get the maximum sentence. But why? I don't know. I have a feeling. ⁓ why? Okay. But we'll talk about this in a little bit once we get a little bit more information out. So he was originally charged as an adult on first on two counts of first degree. Okay. Okay. ⁓ let me explain why. So the way the juvenile system is, they and they actually focus on rehabilitation. Yeah. ⁓ do you know the twelve steps of recovery? Yeah. So the first step is acceptance and surrender. So basically admitting that you have a problem or that you did something wrong. And Jordan was like, No, I didn't do this And they were just like Okay, well then we can't put you in juvie and you're gonna have a trial like an adult. So either incriminate yourself or you're gonna have a trial. Yeah, they'll try to since the point of juvie is to rehab them and to release them at eighteen and do it. That is why ⁓ they will start to charge some of these younger ones as an adult so that they don't get out of eighteen. We've actually seen a couple of ⁓ Mhm. ⁓ so that's Interesting. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. But his defense team fought fucking hard, nail and tooth for this guy. Okay. And he thankfully was held in a juvie center leading up to his trial. Because an 11-year-old does not belong in a prison with adults. Hell no. No. Hell no. So he was held in a juvie center leading up to his trial, which was actually not until April of 2012. And thankfully, after those three years of hearings and appeals, Pennsylvania courts ultimately ruled that the case would remain in juvenile court. That means there would be no jury and he wasn't ⁓ not going to be charged as an adult. Instead, a judge alone would decide whether prosecutors had proven their case. For Jordan's supporters, this was welcoming news. Yeah. But for Kenzie's family, It was frustrating because many believed Jordan had intentionally murdered Kenzie and deserved to face the full weight of the justice system. The divide between the two sides has actually grown so much deeper over the years, too. By this point, public opinion seemed split down the fucking middle. Yeah. Some people looked at the circumstantial evidence and believed Jordan was responsible. Others looked at the lack of direct evidence. And wondered how an 11-year-old had become the primary suspect so quickly. When the trial began, prosecutors laid out the theory that they had been building since the day of the murder. Jordan was angry w about Kenzie's pregnancy, that he was jealous of the attention of the unborn baby, or I'm sorry, that the unborn baby was going to receive, and unhappy unhappy about the changes taking place in the household. Prosecutors claimed he woke up that morning. retrieved his shotgun, entered Kinzie's bedroom, and shot her in the back of the head while she slept, and then he calmly left for school. The prosecution relied heavily on the circumstantial evidence. They argued that pellets recovered from Kinsey's body were consistent with ammunition used in Jordan's shotgun. They pointed out the fact that Jordan had access to the weapon and knew how to use it because he regularly hunted with his father. They pointed to Jordan's access to it, to the shotgun. Yeah. They brought up witness statements suggesting he had expressed unhappiness about the baby. And they argued that he had the opportunity to commit the crime. But then the defense attacked those claims from every single angle. Jordan's attorneys argued there was no forensic evidence linking him to the shooting at all. There was no fingerprints, no DNA, no blood, no confession, and no eyewitnesses. Noting that directly ⁓ I'm sorry, nothing that directly placed the weapon in his hands at the time of the murder. The defense also challenged the alleged motive. Family members and friends offered conflicting accounts about Jordan's feelings towards the pregnancy. Some described him as unhop unhappy, but others said he was excited about being a big brother. Some of them even said he was excited, but then switched and said actually he's unhappy. Which one is it? But he's eleven. He's eleven. He's an 11-year-old boy in a blended family. And like I can guarantee you, like at first, ⁓ I mean, I won't even say guarantee. Like, let's put it this way. Announces there's gonna be a baby. Yeah. He already has these two younger siblings. Mm-hmm. You know, that are now have these siblings. Yep. And he's been an only child for so long. And so there's gonna be that excitement. But then as the months go on and he is realizing that there's two younger siblings, plus there's gonna be this new baby, and there's all this going on, he probably went back and forth about it throughout it. Sometimes he was excited, sometimes he wasn't excited. But He's eleven. I'm not gonna hone his feelings against a new sibling in a blended family against him to the point of like it's not like he was having major behavioral issues and threatening Kinzie and was being violent towards the other siblings and any of that stuff. He was being a typical oldest child in a family and occasionally his comments about not wanting one probably came around times when he was forced to watch his other siblings and he didn't want to. You know what I mean? Like he's eleven. Absolutely. And a boy. And the thing is so like him and his dad would still go out and do things. So it's not like Kenzie was hoarding all of his attention. Like this wasn't that's not what was happening. And for statements to change over time from adults, like are we parroting what other people have said? Or like are you just talking out your ass, talk out your ass? Absolutely. Absolutely. So the defense argued the prosecutors were attempting to transform normal childhood emo emotions into evidence of murder. Just like you. So what I just ranted about. What you just fucking said, yeah. Perhaps even more importantly, they challenged the timeline. Experts has debated exactly when Kenzie had actually died. And the prosecutors could not establish a time of death with certainty. And if they couldn't establish that time of death, Then they could not definitively place Jordan at the scene when the murder occurred. Well I mean left by eight fifteen. She was found at nine ten. The tree trimmers got there around nine. Nine ish. And Chris left at six forty five and was at work by seven. But the kids saw her that morning and Janessa wouldn't lie about that. Yeah. So my biggest thing is that we don't have his fingerprints on the shotgun shells and that Janessa didn't say anything about him messing with his guns and the boom because my biggest thing is is you said that they went to the school and interviewed the kids about their mourning, but they didn't tell the kids what happened. Correct. There is no way an eleven year old boy without any other prior markers of being a psychopath, of being like this with the emotional detachment or animals or any of the other things is going to sit there in front of officers hours after shooting her and be that calm and cool and collected. Yeah. Listen, Morgan and Anessa were not even that calm and cool and collected and we're the same age. Yeah. Cops can be fucking intimidating, especially if you don't know why they're there talking to you and you got pulled out like solo, like individually to speak to them. Because they were separated when they were speaking. Well, and the fact that their stories were basically verbatim. So if you're gonna put this on him, you also have to put it on Janessa. Because if their stories from day one were the exact same almost verbatim, then why isn't she included in this? Because there's not enough time for her to not have been included in this, and I'm sorry, a fourth interview isn't where she's finally gonna say this. Unless family members were putting details into her head. I love you so much. I hope you know that. You'll understand why. The Stephanie Crow case really fucked you up. Really got me in about interrogations with children and other things. So So the case increasingly came down to interpretation rather than hard proof. After hearing all of the evidence, Lawrence County Judge John Hodge issued his ruling. He found Jordan delinquent on both homicide counts. And in juvenile court. Delinquent is essentially the equivalent of a guilty finding. I was about to ask you. I was like, I feel like that's what that meant, but I wasn't entirely sure. How? The judge concluded that Jordan had murdered Kenzie and her unborn son. How? I want to know how you make those leaps and bounds with what's in front of you. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Does he have any like disciplinary stuff at school or anything like that that we find out about? No. Okay, cool. So, at this moment, for Kenzie's family, it was a relief. After years of waiting, they believed justice has finally been served. For Jordan's family and supporters, it was devastating. They believed an innocent child had just been convicted based on assumptions rather than evidence. The case, however, was far from over. Jordan's attorneys immediately appealed. As they should. Meanwhile, while he was in jail, ⁓ He was in a juvie center, by the way. But it was essentially jail. Okay. He was not allowed to Since he was convicted. We're not in like a juvenile like holding detention center where like you're waiting in the lesser fences. Now we're in like the heavier fence. But meanwhile, he actually attended school and eventually graduated high school all from a jail cell. I mean, I'm not surprised because he was already a kid who was doing these things as it was. And I'm sure his dad had a big say in that. Yeah, and I know I feel like the support from his dad was also very helpful to him in staying like with what he did. Yeah. So you know the picture of his dad behind him? That was in Juvie. ⁓ I know. I know. Over the next three and a half years, his defense would keep appealing and the appellate courts would carefully examine every piece of evidence used to support the conviction. And as they did, cracks began to appear. Shocking. I fucking crazy surprised. The defense argued that the prosecution's case relied almost entirely on speculation. They pointed out that while there might have been some evidence creating suspicion, suspicion alone is not enough for a conviction. No. The gun that the investigators said was the murder weapon was never actually proven to be the murder weapon. Yep, they never did ballistics on it. The gunpowder residue they found on his clothes could have been from the turkey hunt just days prior. That's where I was already at here because even if you do the laundry, it's not gonna wash all of that out and we just have some of it. I'm like, this is from him firing that gun at some point. Yep. ⁓ the shotgun shells that were found on the property meant fucking nothing. They went hunting all the time. So there were shells all over the property, and none of the shells We're proven to be for his gun directly. We didn't even do fucking ballistics and convicted him. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Let's think about this a little bit closer also. If she had been shot with a twenty gauge shotgun, point blank or at least very close range to the back of her head, there would have been so much brain matter and splatter all over the gun as well as his clothes he was wearing for the day. But which is why I was thinking it was from the outside. Prosecutors argued that the angle of the shot was Which is possible that it was like if you shoot at a specific angle, it won't splatter. Which is possible, but I feel like that's kind of reaching. But at the same time, they didn't even realize that she had been shot. And I think it's because of her hair. Personally. And so there was zero DNA evidence on his gun or clothes that he wore to school that day, by the way. That was gonna be my other thing, which is why I was I think I was stuck on the fact that I thought this happened from outside the house. So like I wasn't thinking about blood splatter and all that on him. But yeah, at the same time, like even him being slightly behind his sister, she would have had to have been in the house. And she was waiting at the door for him. And she would have heard that. Like I'm I know that I've talked about not being able to hear gunshots in different areas, but we are That's a shotgun in a bedroom. That's very different than a handgun or something else. So there's no way she didn't hear it. I agree. Finally, in twenty sixteen, Jordan won his appeal. Good. And after being held for seven years, he was released at the age of eighteen and he was set to get a new trial. ⁓ I don't like that. Mm-hmm. But then in twenty eighteen, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court got a hold of this and ruled that there was insufficient evidence to prosecute the case, so he was exonerated. And therefore cannot be retried. The court ordered Jordan to be completely discharged, and because the ruling was based on insufficient evidence, double jeopardy protections attached. That meant Jordan could never be tried again for Kenzie's murder. I'm so happy. Yeah. After spending years under suspicion and years fighting the allegations, he was legally free. But freedom didn't erase what happened. No, it took the rest of his childhood away from him. He is forever labeled as this. There are people who heard this story one time or heard a headline and have always thought that he did this and will always think he did this. It it's not gonna be easy for him after this. It is it's a scarlet letter of a new kind. Yeah, you just took the words right off my page, girl. Jordan has spent much of his adolescence and young adulthood known as the boy accused of murdering his pregnant future stepmother. Even after the conviction was overturned, many people remained convinced he was guilty. Others believed the Supreme Court had corrected a terrible injustice, and the d the debate continues to this day. Jordan went on to study computer science at a college in Ohio and took a few criminal cla criminal justice classes. I'm sure he did. He was looking into going into civil law, but that I didn't find anything to say what happened with that. Other than that, he does keep his life very under the radar in private. And here at Justice Four, we respect the fuck out of it. So, Jordan, if for any reason you ever hear this, I hope you're doing good, brother. Yep. And at the center of the debate that is currently happening is a heartbreaking reality. The person responsible for Kenzie's murder has never been identified. Because once Jordan's conviction was overturned, the case effectively returned to exactly where it had begun. A pregnant woman had been executed in her own bed, and no one had been held legally responsible to this day. September of 2023, 15 years after the murder, Jordan, who is now 26, filed a lawsuit against the Pennsylvania State Police Commissioner, Frank I'm sorry if I say your name, Palo Palawski. Yep, that was it. Polowski, ⁓ well as troopers Janice Wilson, Jeffrey Martin, Robert McGraw, and Troy Steinhauser. ⁓ of them is currently deceased ⁓ of this time. Got you. You're part of that. I mean, and lawsuit as he should, because, well, yeah, we're ignorant. He was suing for emotional and mental harm, saying he continues to suffer from fear, humiliation, reputation, and mental anguish. But wait, there's more. Yeah. ⁓ The lawsuit went on to say ⁓ That when the two troopers arrived at the scene and found Kenzie, they started CPR to try to save her and in the process moved her fucking body, which I get, I understand. Right when each of them tried mouth to mouth with her, she had already been dead for a little bit. ⁓ so the gases that were being exuded from Kenzie's deceased body into theirs caused both of them to vomit. As a result, They ran through the house looking for a way out so they didn't vomit in the crime scene. One of them made it. One of them did not. So someone threw up on the crime scene. And we're also running through the house and creating more footprints through a crime scene. They both smeared the fucking blood because they were moving her covered in a pool of blood. They smeared blood throughout the crime scene. The crime scene was so contaminated from the very beginning. And they planted their own Bloody fingerprints throughout the house. They didn't even put fucking gloves on when they walked into the house. They didn't have gloves on when they were doing this? No. So their fingerprints, bloody fingerprints from her blood was all over the house. Okay. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, the trooper who was charged with interviewing the kids, her name was Janice Wilson. She had no training, zero training in child interviews, and didn't know that there were national guidelines in interviewing children. Therefore, she violated every single fucking one of those guidelines. For instance, she only recorded one of the interviews. And I'll get to that in a second. Let me guess, it's the one where Janessa talks about hearing the bang. Nope. ⁓ Uh-huh. ⁓ she also didn't document any of the questions that she asked any of the kids. She made notes about the interviews and their answers days or even weeks after the fucking interview. And then after she wrote her notes and turned it into an official report, she would then destroy her notes. Continue. Mm-hmm. So like the police knew that they were supposed to get someone with the right credentials, but they said they said, we don't want to waste time on that. Then they were asked, why did you choose Janice Wilson to do this? And they said, quote, Well, women are better with kids than men. I fucking knew what you were gonna say. I knew you were gonna say that. I knew it was gonna be a woman thing, a fucking sex assassin. Yeah. Yeah. So now let's talk about those interviews, okay? They interviewed seven year old Janessa four times in twelve hours following the murder. The majority of them though, minus the first one at the school, were all late at night. There was actually a forty five minute gap between the interviews, ⁓ the third interview and the fourth interview. And apparently there was also an off the record quote somewhere that multiple people mentioned, but no one actually mentioned what the quote was. Cool. Cool, cool, cool. How annoying. ⁓ there was only one interview that was actually recorded and it took place at twelve fifteen AM. ⁓ I lied to you, that was the it was her fourth interview. You're right, you were right, my bad. ⁓ so it took place at twelve fifteen AM, well past her bedtime, first and foremost. Seven. She's seven. And this was pretty much right after she found out her mother and her brother were fucking dead. in the house that she was currently at. So I can only imagine how tired she was and like how fucking exhausted she was mentally, emotionally. For them to suggest something in her to repeat it back. Ooh, hold on to that. the interview lasted an hour, and that's the one where she mentioned the big boom that she heard. It was later learned that sometime after the second interview and before the recorded fourth interview, they told her that her grandparents Like Kenzie's parents parents s was thinking that Jordan could do it and that she went along with it. They were like, Mm, Jordan may have had a hand in this. They said that to their seven year old their seven year old granddaughter. And that's when she was like, ⁓ yeah, I saw him with a gun. I fucking knew this shit was gonna be like this. Mm-hmm. Okay. So the youth twenty gauge shotgun had no trace of evidence or blood on it. They merely smelled it and determined it had been recently fired, which was because of that turkey hunt I told you about. Apparently guns can smell for a few days after using it, especially if you don't clean it. Yeah. ⁓ and like I said, they didn't do the ballistics to determine if that was the gun that was actually used. So let me lay out a small timeline for you really quick, okay? They were up at eight o'clock eating breakfast. Kenzie came down to usher them out. Jordan had to go back upstairs really quick, for I believe his backpack. And came back downstairs to meet Jeanessa at the door to go to the bus by eight fifteen. That's not enough time for him to do this and clean up. That's what I'm fucking saying. There's not enough time. So w within the literal like I'll give him a solid seven fucking minutes. Maybe eight minutes. He went upstairs, was separated from Janessa. No, I won't even give it that. She came down at eight to tell them that they needed to go to school. Mm-hmm. They probably got up and started to put their dishes in the sink. Mm-hmm. Started to put their shoes on and everything. Jenna or ⁓ Jordan. Kenzie went back upstairs. Mm-hmm. And as they're standing there, Janessa grabbed her backpack. He realized that. His backpack wasn't down there. He had to go upstairs, grabbed his backpack real quick, and then came back downstairs. I'm not even giving him I'm gonna give it a couple min like maximum a two minute separation. I do have within the literal two minutes he went upstairs and was separated from Janessa before they ran out to the bus. They didn't even ran, they walked to the bus. He would have had to go where Kenzie was laying down to get the gun, by the way, because the guns were in their bedroom. Yeah. 'Cause dad's smart. Kept his guns in his bedroom, get the gun out without her I doubt she fell asleep like that, by the way. Yeah, there's no way she was instantly right back to sleep. Like that's where I'm at. She was already in the bed, probably on her side sleeping. Like that wasn't enough time for her to go back up there and go to sleep. Yes. To get the gun out, shoot her in the back of the head, clean it perfectly, change his clothes and run downstairs to get to the bus, where he acted perfectly fine and calm. All well Janessa just stood there at the front door waiting. No, I'm sorry as a sibling, you're annoying as fuck about this shit and I would have gone like upstairs looking for it and also like had there been the boom and stuff like that, there would have been more of that in the conversation at the school earlier. Like for their stories to be the exact same from the very beginning and then Janessa's to slowly change and the only thing that changes about Jordan's is now he's gonna add more details onto the truck because he knows his He knows Kinsey's dead, so now he's like trying to remember more details or give more details because he didn't think it was important to give details at the time because no one knew she was dead. Well, the kids didn't know she was dead. That's what I mean. I this is also where I want to point out as well that he didn't know about Adam Harvey. He didn't know that Adam had a black truck. He doesn't even know who this guy is. Why would he leave? I didn't even think about that. And he was saying that before any other adults talked to him, anybody else knew anything, before the family came around. Like in the very first interview he had. Like I'm sorry, why are we trusting the dad and the fact that the hood wasn't warm? Why are we trusting the dad? ⁓ his dad. Adam's dad. Adam's dad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Like I mm-hmm. Really quick, they also never tested Jordan's hands for gunpowder residue. They just took the tiny trace of residue that was on his jacket. So I didn't actually say it earlier, but here I am telling you, they didn't fucking test his hands. Which is absolutely wild to me because from experience It's it's something that they do and they require just to double check and like They do that shit quick. At the house. They tested everyone else's hands. Why wouldn't you test the person that you're literally arresting? Why wouldn't you fucking do that? Whatever. then when questioned Adam Harvey. Yeah. Shitty boyfriend. Ex-boyfriend. Ex-boyfriend. ⁓ They his truck and took ⁓ grass mud samples from his tires, like kind of fresh ones. Eight years later? ⁓ No, day of ⁓ heard. Mm-hmm. ⁓ But never tested any of those samples against grass or mud on Kinsey and Chris's property. ⁓ when they asked ⁓ why truck was so muddy. He said he got stuck in the mud at his parents' house, but they never actually went to look to see if he could have gotten stuck in fucking anything. They just kinda took his word on everything that he said. ⁓ and again, Jordan saw I'm sorry, when Jordan saw and said he saw a truck ⁓ the black truck parked in the property, he didn't know Adam. He didn't know that he had this truck, like nothing. Yeah. But Adam had a clear fucking motive. Just the evidence didn't align properly. If anyone had better motive than fucking Adam. Yeah, and I'm not gonna trust his dad saying that he was at the house that he was sleeping because I'm sorry, he's a grown-ass adult who can slip out and slip back in. It's not very fucking hard. And he could have worn gloves and he had time to change and clean himself up. I just, I don't buy it. So while Jordan was actually in custody, Adam was at a party and confided in a friend. They always do. And he was like sitting there crying and said, quote, I killed my ex-girlfriend. End quote. That friend went and actually found Jordan's attorney and was like, Hey man, this just fucking happened. and they turned it into the police with a handwritten statement and nothing was ever done about it. Of course it wasn't. I mean, why why would something be done about that? Yep. Why? So in summary, they just completely fucking failed to do a real investigation and because of it now Jordan ha or Jordan now has PTSD and was completely robbed of his childhood. Yeah. Completely. ⁓ so I ⁓ noticed finally, actually this morning, I finally found the article for it that 'cause this was a civil case against the police. Yeah. Jordan How the fuck did he lose the civil case? I don't know. But they he lost. Yeah. And I know that Kenzie's sister was actually there and was like, Good. Like, are you fucking kidding me? So I did not add much about the girls in here just because I there's they were young. They were young and they're still trying to live their lives and they're still young. But there's one thing I wanna add in here. I do have a picture of them older and I do believe they went and lived with Kenzie's family. Okay. So ⁓ but there's one thing I wanna add in here that I told you needed I needed you to lock something into your brain for. Okay? Okay. Adeline was only four at the time of the murder. So there was only so much that she could do. Yeah. She later told someone during an interview that she remembers the reason she woke up was because she heard a loud bang. She got up and went downstairs and her mom's phone was ringing. She answered her mom's phone, because you know, kids love to fucking answer phones. And it was her friend, and her friend was like, Hey, go get your mom. And that's when she couldn't when she went to her, she couldn't wake her up. So From what I'm gathering from that tidbit information, I very much believe that Kenzie probably died around nine. Nine ish. ⁓ I'm very much going to say that this is a ships passing in the night. Those tree trimmers drove past was leaving that house. It had to have been just happened. Probably. Because but also ⁓ We don't do we know when she talked about that phone call? Because if there was that phone call that happened, that gives a time. No. This was years later in an interview, like when she was older. But okay, kids startle awake pretty easy, but then they usually just get up and like start moving, right? When did I tell you Adam said he left his house? Six forty five. Chris left at six forty five. ⁓ Adam left at nine. Yes. And he lived ten miles away, so he wouldn't have gotten there until like So let's say he fucking lied. To be fair, if you if it's eight forty five, I'm gonna be like, it's nine. Close enough. You know I know something else that's funny? Yeah. There's always a little truth to the lies they tell so they can keep the lies right. Yep. He didn't leave his house at nine, he killed her at nine. Mm-hmm. Just a speculation here. Here's another thing though. Mm hmm. Kids when they're that young, when they first get up, the first place they go is their parents' room generally. But if she heard a bang and got up and heard the phone ringing, she's gonna follow the phone because that's where she thinks her mom is. So she's not gonna go in the bedroom first. So she thought sh that's what she did. She got up and was going towards her mom. Yeah. And when kids wake up, they don't know where the fuck they are. They don't know what time it is. No, not at that age. I mean, the only way that my daughter knew what time it was around that age was because we got her a clock that would change a color at a certain time. Mm-hmm. It would go to green. And that meant she could get out of her room and wake the rest of the household because these kids wake up at ungodly fucking hours. Yeah. So unless she had an alarm clock like that or a clock in her room like that. Nicole we had one for Nicole at four or five. Okay. So it'll It'll be a yellow color. Yeah. Hers was set like seven, I think. And then at seven o'clock it would turn to a green color. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So that would be the only way, like, if she would be like, My my clock was green. You know what I mean? Because that wouldn't mean anything to you or an investigator, but if somebody looked at the clock she had, whatever time that's set to, would give you more of a time. I don't believe that's what this case was. I I figured it wouldn't. But I'm just saying that like I'm just saying it kinda kinda checks out. But at the same time, if Kenzie was woken up by that and someone was in the house or running from the house, she may have been or not Kenzie, I'm sorry, ⁓ Adeline Yeah I don't know how this I don't know. It's a fucking weird situation. Because eight fifteen for the kids getting on the bus and seeing the truck sitting down there, he's waiting for everybody to leave. And I I feel like I kind of doubt that she heard this loud bang and went back to sleep. Yeah, no. 'Cause once they're up at that age they're up. Yeah. ⁓ So ⁓ people discuss the Kenzie Howe case, ⁓ the conversation almost always centers on Jordan Was guilty? Was he innocent? Did investigators get right, or did they spend years pursuing the wrong person? But somewhere along the line, the victim herself often gets lost in the debate. And it's unfortunate, ⁓ but at the heart of this case is a woman whose life was stolen just weeks. Before she was due to give birth. So let me tell you about Kenzie. Kenzie Houck was the kind of person who made everyone around her feel loved, welcomed, and important. Friends and family described her as warm-hearted, caring, and deeply devout to the people she loved most. She had a bright personality and an easy smile that could put others at ease. And she was known for her compassion and willingness to help whenever she needed it. Whenever someone needed it, I'm sorry. Above all else, Kenzie was a devoted mother who found her greatest joy in her children. She looked forward to the future with optimism and excitement, embracing the simple moments that made life meaningful. Those who knew her remember a young woman whose kindness, love, and gentle spirit left a lasting impression on everyone fortunate enough to be in her life. No matter what anyone believes about Jordan Brown, Kenzie How can her unborn sw her unborn son were murdered. That fact has never been disputed. The question has always been who committed the murder? Cases like this are often difficult because people naturally want certainty. We want a villain. We want a clear answer. We want a courtroom verdict that settles everything at once for everything. And sometimes that justice system doesn't provide that. Sometimes a case ends not with resolution, but with more questions than answers. And now is the time if we We discuss if we got justice for Kenzie. Nope. I agree. We did not get justice for Kenzie. Nor do I believe we have cut justice for Jordan in this. ⁓ to a point. I mean, him losing that loss, that civil suit, really ⁓ Yeah. I don't like that. I just but I also don't like that we're not trying to go harder at the other obvious suspect here. Yeah. I agree. So now I'm going to the jury here. Do you think Jordan had anything to do with this murder? Do you think Adam had more involvement? Who do you believe killed Kenzie Howard? Until that question is answered, this case remains open, not just in the eyes of the law, but in the hearts of the people who loved her the most. And perhaps this is the most tragic part of it all. If you or someone you know is dealing with domestic violence, help is available. ⁓ It is available four seven in over two hundred languages. ⁓ You can call ⁓ one eight hundred seven nine nine seven three three or you can text Begin to eight eight seven eight eight. Begin is B E G I N to eight eight seven eight eight. You can also go on their website and there is chat available or chat options available on there. That is my case for today. I don't want any of you guys to come at me anymore for me giving you guys unsolved, unresolved things because she just did that. I did just do that. You made it seem like this was going to be a fun time and that I was getting comfy to just sit here and enjoy myself. I have so many more questions. I know. I have so much anger. I'm what? I know. Do you understand why like I heard this case and I was like, Yep, that's I'm I'm writing this shit right now. Yeah, ⁓ my gosh. I just I'm still processing all of that. Like I'm not gonna lie to you guys, when I was first reading about this, I was like, I think Jordan did it. Like dead ass. And then I started reading all of the other evidence and I was like I had a moment in there where I was like, They're not gonna put this on Jordan. It was when you said that he was walking slightly behind. I was like, This isn't gonna be him that did this and yeah, that's where we ended up going. That's why I didn't say anything about it 'cause I like, that's there's no way that's where we're going with this. Yeah, man. So interesting. Yeah. I'm really curious if you what you guys think though. Like genuinely. Do you think Jordan had a hand in this? Because her family is so set that it was Jordan. Like I said, grief does weird things. Yeah. Even after every single one of them was like Adam. Yeah, like everybody pointed to Adam and then everybody did a switch up. And I don't know. I mean I understand wanting to blame somebody. Yeah. But like The same day as when the switch up happened. So interesting. It's so weird. Yeah. Yeah. I'm wondering if this is where the switch up happened. The gun that they believed was used was his gun. And I wonder if the family found that out or if while they were all at the house or whatever, 'cause they're doing these interviews and other stuff, if somebody made the comment, like the police like confirmed with Chris that it was Jordan's gun. Yeah. And somebody in her family heard that and they just from then they were just so set on the fact that if it was Jordan's gun that happened to be used, it had to have been him. It had to have been him. I agree. I completely agree with that. I think when either her mom or sister found out they ran to the property, probably heard the cops talking about something and was like And connected their own dots to this. Yeah. Yeah. Or when they were being interviewed by cops, like talk talk too. They the cops may have said, Well, this gun smells fresh, but Yeah. I don't know. And like you said, grief is a fucking bitch. So the second you hear, ⁓ well this cop was or this gun was fired recently, like Especially when you weren't there for the death or to witness it or there's not any witnesses to tell what happened, it's your brain has to come up with something. Mm-hmm. You know, until you can actually see or hear what happened. Your brain has to grasp onto something. Yeah. I agree. It's it's crazy. But like I said That's very interesting. I'm very curious if that will ever have any updates or be solved. I genuinely don't know. Yeah, I d I don't know either. They the cops were so tunnel visioned on Jordan that I don't see them branching out further as Stephanie Crowe. They were so tunnel vision on Michael and his friends that like whatever evidence or things that they could have done. Same thing with the Kettie Kevin murders. They were so focused that no other things were looked into. Pretty much. Pretty much. But yeah, I'm very curious what your guys' opinions are. ⁓ please, please, please leave us a comment or even a review. I don't care if you're like this was fucking amazing and tell me all your review your thoughts in a review, do that. But as always, please go follow our socials everywhere. Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, Apple, Spotify. ⁓ you can leave comments on almost all of those now on our episodes. ⁓ if there's not a spot for comments, leave it in the review section. We do always have discussion posts for every single episode as well. ⁓ and if you guys haven't noticed, if you comment, we generally comment back. Yeah, we we love to have those discussions. We love it when you guys start discussing it. So please start using those more. I will continue to do them because all of a sudden one day you guys all might use them. And that's where all of our pictures for each episode go as well. You can also find all of it on our website at www.justforpodcast.com. ⁓ com. It is labeled by season and episode and their picture and name are always at the top of it. And it will have a link out to where to watch the episodes on YouTube or Apple or Spotify as well. You can also find our merch, all of our resources there. we have season three merch out now and it's pretty fucking cool. Yeah. So go get it while you can. ⁓ we are in the talks of doing at least two new live shows. Yeah. We'll have some live shows coming up here. ⁓ Probably towards the end of summer, fall. Yes. We'll definitely be getting into that. In summer. It's a little crazy for us lately. Things have been a little crazy, a little hectic, but ⁓ I wanna say things are slowing down. It's not. It's not. It's fucking not. So but this was I think a lot longer of an episode than I was planning on. I think it was too, but I think it'll be all right. So ⁓ But yes, thank you for out with us today. ⁓ This was fucking crazy. Crazy. It's very interesting, very intriguing. I'm definitely gonna be thinking on this for a few more days. Yeah. Yeah. You understand why I did I do This one, this one just caught me, man. Yeah, this was a good one. Yeah, absolutely. But thank you guys for hanging out with us today. I don't know what's coming at you next week. We're gonna figure it out together eventually, probably. So have a lovely, lovely day. I Fourth of July is literally this weekend. So Please. ⁓ I was gonna wear my cute sparkles. I forgot. We forgot. It's fine. Please, please, please have a very, very safe 4th of July weekend. ⁓ USA. ⁓ if you need a ride somewhere, I'm not doing shit. Message me. I got you. You have to listen to my music. I don't care. But on that note, we hope you a great, safe weekend. Yes. Or have a great safe weekend. And we will catch you next week with an all-new episode. You damn right we will. We'll see you guys then. Okay. Love you. Bye!