Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / Chef Paul Qui on Creativity, Industry Challenges, and Restaurant Empires | Ep. 135

Transcript

Chef Paul Qui on Creativity, Industry Challenges, and Restaurant Empires | Ep. 135 · Chef's PSA Podcast

0:00
Hello chefs. This is Chef's USA Podcast.
0:02
I'm your host, Andre Natara. On today's episode, we have Chef
0:05
Paul Key. He's the winner of Top Chef
0:07
Texas. He's a restaurateur in Austin.
0:09
Today we talk about the creative process, his industry
0:11
predictions, what it's like running multiple restaurants and
0:14
a whole lot more. Stay tuned.
0:27
This episode of Chefs PSA is brought to you by Foods in
0:30
Season. Hey chefs, using the best
0:32
ingredients is one of the most important things you can do.
0:34
I've been a long time customer of Foods in Season and let me
0:37
tell you, they never disappoint. They are the go to source
0:40
trusted by the best chefs for truffles, Wagyu, uni, live
0:44
seafood, caviar and all the hard to get forged wild goodness.
0:48
They're all about sustainability and they even give you a
0:50
dedicated sales Rep to help you plan your menu without missing a
0:53
beat. Plus, nationwide overnight
0:56
delivery, you could order for wild salmon today and have it at
0:59
your restaurant tomorrow. Visit foodsinseason.com and let
1:03
me get you the hookup, mentioned Chefs PSA and get free shipping
1:06
and a free sample box with your first order.
1:09
Yeah, So I mean, like, it's funny that you mentioned MMA
1:12
because I had no, nothing about MMA, but I, I mean, I think, I
1:16
think I, I listened to the New York Times podcast quite a bit
1:19
and I think I. Didn't even know the New York
1:20
Times had a podcast by the way. Yeah, it's called The Daily.
1:23
And it's like, yeah, it's pretty good, actually, that that's the
1:25
one podcast that I listened to quite a bit.
1:27
Yeah. And they I and, you know, MMA
1:30
has never been part of my life. And, and, and, and there was a
1:34
whole thing about Dana White relationship to Trump and all
1:37
that stuff, right. But, but what piqued my interest
1:40
is like, I didn't realize how many, how much risks were taken,
1:43
Yeah, for MMA to launch the way it did.
1:45
And it's funny that you mentioned that you love
1:49
everything about MMA because I'm like, after hearing that
1:52
podcast, you mentioning that like, I'm it, it piqued my
1:55
interest. And I'm like, yeah, doing some,
1:57
doing some research and doing some homework and actually, you
2:00
know, like it, it sort of made me get what the sport is, you
2:04
know, and, and I like to tell a lot of people I'm like, man,
2:06
since I started cooking, I have zero hobbies.
2:08
And I started cooking 2022. No, sorry, 24 years ago.
2:14
Yeah, I know what I mean. And 24 years, like I used to
2:17
snowboard, I used to ride bikes, I used to do all these things.
2:19
And then all that shit went out the window, right.
2:21
And, and I just started focused on cooking.
2:24
But I, I think part of my, my process recently to the to, to
2:29
healing myself and making myself feel whole is that really
2:32
enjoying things outside the restaurant.
2:33
Yeah, like what? It's kind of funny, but for a
2:37
while, yeah, I was riding bicycles and that's my favorite
2:39
thing to do in Austin. But at the same time, I like to
2:42
take care of animals. Yeah.
2:43
What do you? Mean like like strays or?
2:46
Yeah, pretty much strays and fostering and my my own pets
2:51
and. How many pets do you have?
2:53
I mean, right now I have 4-4 that are of mine.
2:58
Yeah, I just had one that just recently passed.
3:00
So I, so for a while I had two dogs and three cats in my house.
3:03
Yeah, four of those animals are over 14 years old.
3:06
Wow. Right.
3:07
And then I, I fostered a kitten. I thought, I thought it was a
3:11
kitten ends up being a pregnant cat and she has 6 kittens.
3:15
Oh, wow. So I have and I'm just kind of
3:18
nurturing them the bit until they're basically like I think
3:21
they said 6 to 8 weeks and I could start getting them shots
3:24
and fostering them. So right now I'm like kind of
3:26
fostering the kittens. I think they're six weeks in,
3:28
I'm ready to get their shots and I'm ready to get them out of my
3:30
house. Have you always had a?
3:32
Have you always had a love for animals or is this new?
3:34
I think, I think part of what I do love about the hospitality
3:39
industry that kind of drew me to in it just like for me, it's
3:42
just being compassionate towards something or someone, right?
3:46
Like being able to take care and being able to be hospitable and
3:50
actually being I, I feel like, I mean, like, there, there's
3:53
nothing like instant gratification, right?
3:55
That's why I like, feel like a lot of chefs are in restaurants.
3:57
You cook it, you eat it, you taste it.
3:58
Yeah. You know, And there's nothing
4:00
more gratifying than, you know, seeing, you know, like going
4:02
home to a bunch of animals that love you because that's as
4:05
unconditional as that can be, you know?
4:07
You could be gone for 15 minutes and the dog is so happy to see
4:10
you correct. Correct.
4:11
And I mean, for a lot of us crazy chefs, you know, a little
4:14
bit of that warmth at home is like all I need.
4:16
It's better than a shot of whiskey than, you know, a shot
4:18
of whiskey and ever else you're going to get into that.
4:20
Night, right? Yeah.
4:20
No, I I got a dog. I love my dog.
4:24
Yeah, I see him. I'm like, I can't go out now.
4:26
I'm just going to, I'm going to cuddle with you all night.
4:30
And that warmth is important, especially in the industry that
4:32
we're in because there's so many sharp edges just, you know,
4:35
everywhere in the restaurant and you know, like, it's just, you
4:38
know, it, it, it, it's the formula for a very toxic
4:41
environment if you let it. But at the same time, if you
4:43
have other influences that give you that warmth outside of the
4:47
restaurant, it make it makes me a better chef.
4:49
Well, it's interesting that you say it's a formula for toxic
4:51
environment because because it is, you got, you got financial
4:55
pressures, you're short staffed. The tickets are coming in.
4:59
Someone called off the server forgot to ring it in correctly.
5:03
And then they wonder like, well, why are you being, it's like,
5:05
well, there's, there's a lot going on.
5:07
There's a lot going on. So the, the, it's like people
5:09
say, like, why are all kitchens like this?
5:11
Like, well, if I give you all the ingredients for a cake and
5:14
you keep giving me a cake, I can't, I'm giving you all the
5:16
ingredients to bake a cake. And then you get upset when you
5:19
keep giving me back a cake. Part of the problem, though, is
5:22
that we recognize it now, not part of the problem.
5:24
Part of the solution though, is that we recognize it now.
5:26
It's like, OK, we realize that something has to change because
5:29
for so many years it was, well, this is the way it is.
5:34
You just got to, you just got to deal with it.
5:35
But now so many people don't want that.
5:37
People want something different. And not only that, it's like, I
5:41
was thinking about this the other day.
5:43
It's like coming up as a chef, like we missed everything, like
5:46
I missed the birthday, the Christmas, whatever, right?
5:49
And and so the next generation coming in, well, they don't want
5:52
to miss it, but we missed it. So you should miss it.
5:54
Like that's kind of sometimes the mentality that we have I've.
5:56
Had to change my attitude on yeah, you know, so and any time
5:59
I use, I used to laugh about it. I might make a joke or two here
6:01
with somebody that I know it's old school, but at the same
6:04
time, I do it from a, a place of warmth that I'm just like, you
6:07
know what? They they're, they're, they're
6:09
smarter, yeah, in the next generation, right.
6:11
Smarter. And they're protecting what
6:13
they're protecting. What's importance of them that's
6:15
important. Yeah.
6:15
Obviously there's people that take advantage of that.
6:17
Yeah. And you still have to be
6:19
somewhat, you know, you still have to scrutinize it at times,
6:22
you know? Yeah, when you get in your gut.
6:24
That it still has to be your shit.
6:26
It still has to be earned at some point, correct?
6:28
But at the same time, it's like, yeah, why I got beat up, so you
6:30
should get beat up too. It's like that doesn't work on
6:33
that doesn't work. Sally's gone, man.
6:34
Yeah. It's interesting because you,
6:36
you know, you have a restaurant empire.
6:38
I like say you have an empire, but I'd imagine that a lot of a
6:43
lot of the ways that you're, you're scaling the culture in
6:46
your kitchens and in your service teams is like, you got
6:48
to start thinking about this stuff, right, Especially for
6:50
retention and. For sure, for sure.
6:52
And I feel like I've been sort of blessed that it's it's sort
6:55
of happened for me organically. And I think it's, that's, that's
6:58
how just, I naturally like to do things.
7:00
And I like, I mean, we talked about the word empire and, you
7:03
know, for me, it's more like a, you know, like a, like a
7:09
confederacy of people that I've worked with, you know what I
7:12
mean? Or like, you know, just like
7:14
this just really strong alliances with people that I've,
7:17
I've grown up with into the in the kitchen, right, that I end
7:21
up being partners with. So every single restaurant that
7:23
I pretty much own, I'm partners with somebody that I known for
7:26
probably over a decade. Yeah.
7:28
You know, that used to be my original hotline at Uchi, my hot
7:32
ankle dine. You know what I mean?
7:34
Yeah, Yeah. So.
7:35
We talked about this when we did the the Michelin podcast, but I
7:38
mean, there were some killers that came out of Uchi during
7:40
that, during that, during that time, especially like some
7:43
legendary Texas chefs. I, I don't know what the secret
7:46
sauce was at Uchi, but I mean, you when you were there, I mean,
7:50
Phil Spear was there. I mean, so many, I mean, we
7:51
could, we could go on. And but what at that moment in
7:54
time, what do you think it was that was creating greatness to
7:58
come out of that kitchen? I mean, I ran that kitchen
8:03
solidly for eight years. I had pretty much pretty close
8:07
to 0 turnover and all these guys that I worked with could have
8:11
gotten jobs at other places and get more pay, better titles and
8:16
all that stuff. But we decided to stick
8:18
together. That was, I think for me, that
8:20
was the big secret sauce because we didn't open the second
8:22
restaurant until eight years after the first one, really.
8:25
And I retained that team for a long time.
8:27
Yeah, you know what I mean? So for me, it was just like we
8:30
were really, really close, man. We got into some, some stuff
8:33
together. You know, it was like, it was
8:36
like family. Family.
8:37
Yeah. And to, to, to, to make, to make
8:39
the juice that strong. That's the lasting 20 years
8:42
later. Yeah.
8:43
You know, the Kool-aid had to be really concentrated.
8:45
Eight years is almost unheard of.
8:46
You know what I mean? Yeah, No, no, it's crazy.
8:49
And these guys had more experience than me coming into
8:51
the restaurant. Yeah.
8:52
They could have worked anywhere in the world, you know, And but
8:55
they they they would chose to, we chose to stick together.
8:58
And I mean, when you say Empire and what I'm building now, I
9:03
have guys that were with me at Key when I opened Key, left work
9:07
for some of the greatest chefs in the world with huge
9:11
accolades, Michelin and all that stuff.
9:14
Decided to come back to Austin like 78910, some of them ten
9:17
years later. Yeah, to come to come to come
9:19
roll this, this craziness that we're doing with OCO, Top Row
9:23
and all the other 8 restaurants that we're planning on opening
9:26
next two years. So how many of you have right
9:28
now? And, and so you say you're going
9:29
to open eight in the next two years.
9:31
What what? What does it look like right
9:32
now? So right now we got with the new
9:35
group I just started, I got two. Well, let me see two personally,
9:39
I got four in Austin right now, yeah.
9:40
Right. So you got for people that are
9:42
listening, you got top row, you have OCO.
9:45
My old school brands are Eastside King, right?
9:47
16 years old now, right? And then we got a tycoon, which
9:50
is also over a decade, maybe 10-11 years, right?
9:53
So you have 4 in Austin, 4 in Austin?
9:55
And then I have I have a food hall in Houston called the Post
9:58
Market Hall. I have 6 brands in there, which
10:01
some of them are Eastside King Tycoon.
10:03
I started a Filipino brand called Soy Pinoy during a
10:06
pandemic, another one that's more fast casual than Oco,
10:09
right. And I had a bunch of talented
10:12
chefs help help me get lift that one up.
10:14
And then I started Golf Strommen as well.
10:17
And that was the number one restaurant in Houston when I
10:19
opened it in 2020. Yeah.
10:22
And we have a, we have a 50,000 square foot food hall in Austin.
10:26
I mean in Houston, right? Yeah.
10:28
And then Denver, I started a farm, the table restaurant
10:31
called Kokoni. It's in transition right now.
10:34
It's it's like a 20 seat restaurant that restaurants for
10:36
my soul. You know, I got to meet the
10:38
farmers, got to meet some really talented chefs in Austin and in
10:41
Denver. And I got to R&D some stuff and
10:44
really just be in a space where I'm just like, you know what
10:47
this is the space isn't about the money as much, you know, of
10:50
course I got to sustain my staff, But you know, this staff
10:52
was that that space was more for me to be able to grow and as a
10:56
chef. And it was it fed my soul,
10:58
right. And then I have a PAO in Miami,
11:01
which is basically my, I guess my oldest kind of quote UN quote
11:06
fine dining restaurant, even though it's not really fine
11:07
dining service, but in, you know, it's in a gold Dome with a
11:10
gold Unicorn in the middle of the room.
11:13
I've been there since 2015 and, and it's funny because those
11:18
guys, it's, it's probably the as fancy as a hotel can be.
11:21
And I, you know, I was like, man, I was make a joke.
11:23
I was like, man, these guys didn't do their fucking research
11:25
trying to pick me up because I came from a restaurant.
11:28
I came from a food truck and I, I, we made our own tables, like
11:31
my partners was like doing some of the millwork at the
11:33
restaurant, you know? And but yeah, they picked me up
11:37
and I've been there since 2015. So.
11:39
So did they reach out to you? Yeah, so.
11:41
They they emailed Howdy at keyaustin.com.
11:43
Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, who's this guy?
11:45
He wears white everywhere he goes.
11:47
So what's going on here? And they're like, oh, yeah, you
11:49
know, like, I remember the conversation for that.
11:52
He's like, hey, I'm not, I'm not trying to open one restaurant.
11:55
He's like, pow, pow. I'm not trying to open one
11:57
restaurant. If I'm going to open one
11:59
restaurant, 1 hotel, that's nothing.
12:00
I'm here to change culture. You want to join my revolution?
12:03
I'm like, fuck yeah, I'm in. Yeah, let's go.
12:05
Yeah. So nine years later, I'm still
12:07
with that group, right? And then during the pandemic, I
12:10
also opened Alma Casa counter there called Secreto.
12:12
It's a 60 counter at the Faena Hotel so.
12:15
How do you how do you retain all the talent in in the group and
12:19
and is it one group? Overall, no.
12:21
They're multiple groups, so the only thing that bridges all my
12:24
groups together is essentially me.
12:26
I think part of, you know, and I mean like from a biz, if I had
12:30
an MBA or something, I'll probably be like, hey, some of
12:33
those deals are kind of shitty. Some of those deals aren't worth
12:35
it. That's not my accounts.
12:36
Like, that's not making you money while you're doing it.
12:39
I mean, I just love the. I just love the hospitality
12:42
industry, man. And I love being around talented
12:44
people. Like what?
12:45
When people ask me what inspires me, what inspires me or my
12:48
people. Yeah.
12:49
You know, they forced me to grow sometimes.
12:51
Sometimes or sometimes I'm too excited.
12:53
I just want to be part of their story, you know, like I tell, I
12:55
tell Harold all the time. I was like, dude, I'm just
12:57
grateful to be part of your fucking story.
12:58
Yeah. Let me set this up.
13:00
You know, he's doing amazing things.
13:01
I love the restaurant. The restaurant's great,
13:03
Absolutely. And by the way, something that
13:06
that I told you, but the restaurant has great music and
13:09
great sound always. It's probably the best sound
13:14
always. Like it's, it's so thoughtful.
13:15
Yeah. Always, man, like for me, like,
13:18
that's always been paramount at any of the concepts I've ever
13:20
done. Yeah.
13:21
The music's always been important, you know, like, even
13:24
with key, like, I got, I got people coming in and be like,
13:26
hey, I remember that dinner because I remember because, you
13:28
know, Wu Tang is playing. Yeah.
13:29
And this was in 2010, you know what I mean?
13:32
Like. Yeah, yeah.
13:32
You couldn't play Wu Tang in restaurants in 2010.
13:35
I mean, I always did, didn't care.
13:36
I was that guy. Are you going to pay cut some of
13:38
this, You know, and I granted, some of these artists are taboo
13:40
now, but you know, I like to rock hard in the restaurants and
13:43
I'm telling my chefs I'm like, dude, just I used to say this
13:46
all the time, Maruchi. I'm like, leave your fucking ego
13:48
at the door. I don't, you know, like your
13:50
ego's at the door. Check it every single time.
13:53
When we come into the restaurant, we work, we work as
13:55
one unit, right? And, and when I told him, I was
13:58
like, it's not about you, It's not about the food, It's about
14:00
the fuck. It's about the guest experience
14:02
every single time, you know, so like you can say, oh, this is
14:05
off, this is off, that's off. But I'm like, at the end of the
14:07
day, if they're having a fucking great time, let them have a
14:09
fucking great time, you know what I mean?
14:10
And and a big part of that is the vibe, right?
14:13
It's the environment. Like I always like to create
14:15
restaurants that transport you to a different place, like even
14:19
a top row. Everybody that I get in there,
14:20
they're like, oh, this is not Austin right now.
14:23
Yeah, you know, and, you know, yeah, that playlist, I still got
14:26
a tweak out a little bit with my team, you know, because, you
14:29
know, I don't want it to be too clubby because just 'cause we're
14:31
underneath the nightclub, you know what I mean?
14:33
You know? So like for me, it's just about
14:35
being a little bit eclectic and I realized how old I am because
14:38
I'm like, man, I'm playing, I'm playing Gangstar all the time.
14:41
And then in the restaurant, the the, the, the younger friend of
14:44
the house after like, oh, can can we play something different,
14:47
You know, and it'll play something like John Summit or
14:49
some, you know, some of these like it's like vibe like dance
14:53
stuff. And I'm like, yeah, I just don't
14:54
feel that when I'm in the restaurant, right.
14:56
I'll play it. I'll play it sometimes.
14:58
What's funny is, like, our generation, yeah, still thinks
15:00
we're cool. Like, like, you know.
15:02
What I do, but we still think rival exactly that is sort of a
15:06
problem. You know, what's really
15:08
interesting is that one generation still thinks we're
15:10
cool, and the younger generation, we think they're not
15:12
cool. What a pizza.
15:14
For sure. Like it's like they look at us
15:15
like we're not cool, but like, no, no, you guys are the ones
15:17
that don't. Yeah, you're not cool.
15:19
We're still cool. And I mean, like, I mean, I mean
15:22
part of the beauty of me taking me out of Austin though a little
15:24
bit and doing stuff in Colorado and, you know, now in Chicago
15:29
and and in Miami, it just can just open my lenses a little bit
15:32
more. You know, like, like, I feel
15:34
like for a long time, there's this.
15:35
There was like a certain style of hipster restaurant in the
15:39
East Austin that you know, that that that dominated the scene,
15:43
right? But it was still, you know, like
15:44
you go there and like, OK, that was kind of cool, but it was
15:46
kind of like not like, I feel like he was like that for a
15:48
little while where it was like up and down at times, right?
15:51
And and that kind of defined the dining scene here in Austin,
15:54
which is great at the time because those restaurants really
15:58
like it was like a percolator, right?
16:00
They like they simmered a lot of ideas, a lot of Cokes, a lot of
16:03
talent, right, to create the future restaurants.
16:05
And then I feel like for a time, you know, like Austin was influx
16:10
in an influx. It was growing.
16:12
And the people that were that were coming to Austin had a
16:15
certain expectation of a certain type of restaurant, right?
16:17
And I feel like that was what was going on in the scene for a
16:20
little while. Yeah.
16:21
No, no, you know, you're right because for for a minute there,
16:23
when I, I moved from Dallas to Austin in 2014 and I remember
16:27
like there was in Dallas at the time, FT 33, Matt McAllister,
16:31
Trump, it felt like it didn't belong in Dallas.
16:33
It felt like it belonged in Austin.
16:35
But when I came to Austin, it was like there's like 20 FT 33.
16:38
The same restaurant, you know, it's like.
16:40
There's one of them. There.
16:42
But I'm going to blame Phillip and I for this.
16:43
You know, it's like we used to look up to another chef named
16:46
Sam Mason from New York, and he was Wiley Dufresne's original
16:50
pastry, right? So me and him, we didn't ever
16:54
have random money to travel. We would be on the computer all
16:56
the time looking at this guy's food.
16:58
Yeah. And then we realized, which is
17:00
kind of the footprint at Uchi now.
17:02
And it's sort of the footprint for a lot of structure for
17:04
savory food Here is like we had, you know, your protein, your
17:07
puree, your soil, your tweel, your streak and then your sauce.
17:11
That was the formula for almost all the food.
17:14
And I hated that style for a long time because I literally
17:17
had to taste I don't know how many thousands of specials over
17:20
the years between uchi and uchico's like team.
17:24
They just be like, OK, I'm like, great, it's going to be another
17:27
dish that has this. But it was really mean, full of
17:29
salt because Phillip took it from pastry, made it pastry.
17:32
Then I looked at it and made it savory, right?
17:34
And this was back in 05/06, you know.
17:37
It's funny because I had a very similar conclusion when I was a
17:40
shot is like, I was looking at a lot of EMP stuff at the time and
17:43
I was like, OK, they got a like a dollop of a puree.
17:47
They have some punch punched out raw vegetables.
17:49
They have some flowers. And the hole punches right.
17:52
There's like, and it was like, yes, you have your main focus,
17:55
your seasonal ingredient, a couple of dollops of puree.
17:58
It's like, boom, that's the formula, the sauce.
17:59
And then you can just scale that with whatever season you're in
18:02
and fill in the ingredient. But yeah, it's funny how and and
18:06
they didn't, they didn't write that down and saying that was
18:08
their formula. I just kind of saw I was like,
18:09
OK, I cracked the code, sure. Right, No, nobody really writes
18:13
it down. But then I'm like sitting
18:15
through tasting after tasting after tasting, when I'm
18:17
listening to the other chef saying like, oh, I think it
18:19
needs a gas streak or I think it needs this or it needs a little
18:21
sour, it needs acid, it needs texture.
18:23
And I'm like then for a while I was like anti that.
18:26
Yeah, I feel like the last at least 10 years is like, I don't
18:28
want any more texture. Like don't don't put a fucking 2
18:31
wheel. Don't put it, don't put it like
18:32
whatever on there. Right.
18:33
You know, I've come around to where I'm like more accepting of
18:36
everything. I think I've, at least for me
18:38
personally that I've done as a chef where I'm like, not
18:40
embarrassed of what the things that we did before, you know?
18:43
Yeah, yeah, Yeah. Well, it's funny.
18:44
Here's a story that that I haven't shared with you, but
18:48
yeah, you know, nostalgia from going back.
18:50
So you had just one Top Chef. Yeah.
18:52
And you were doing a demo at the Texas Restaurant Association in
18:56
Dallas, the TRA show. OK.
18:58
And I was going on stage right after you, right, To do my demo,
19:01
Right. And I remember you.
19:02
I don't remember what you did, but it.
19:03
I don't remember. What I did is it but.
19:05
It had like a fucking, I want to say I had like a ponzu fluid gel
19:09
and maybe some blueberries and some Asian pear.
19:11
Yeah. Like Nash.
19:11
I don't remember what else was in it.
19:13
OK, Yeah, yeah. But it had some stuff like that
19:14
I remember seeing. I was like, that's fucking cool.
19:16
And I remember talking to you right after that, like, what is
19:18
that? Boom, boom.
19:19
I was like, I'm fucking still now I'm in Dallas.
19:23
That's going on my menu. You're far enough for well.
19:26
For me, I love that kind of stuff, man.
19:27
When people ask, say, hey, how did you do that?
19:29
I'm like, here's the fucking recipe, man.
19:30
I'm not going to hurt that thing.
19:31
I'm like, I'll, I'll even teach you how to do it, you know,
19:33
like, and but I do the same with other chefs.
19:35
When I like something, I just tell them straight up, you know,
19:38
Yeah. And like, I remember my first
19:41
menu at Key, every item, I, I gave a nod to whoever it came
19:44
from, right? So right.
19:45
Yeah. My old Michelle bra, right.
19:47
Who's the, the vegetable dish? The vegetable dish, right?
19:50
The gargiu that almost every chef of our generation copied,
19:53
Right, right. You know, and then and then I
19:55
had a few other things that, you know, maybe I took from Jose or
19:58
I took from, from Alinea, you know, like, but I'll put their
20:01
name on their hair. Yeah.
20:02
No, I didn't put your name to it.
20:03
Yeah, but the world, yeah, I stole it from but but.
20:08
For me, I mean this because I feel like restaurants are
20:10
community and you shouldn't be embarrassed to learn from
20:13
somebody. Yeah, it's not really.
20:14
I mean, and I know chefs that get mad with if it's a straight
20:16
RIP and nobody says anything, yeah, they'll be kind of
20:18
irritating especially. When you're down the block.
20:20
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but I'm, but I'm like, you
20:22
know what I mean? Like just share the ideas and
20:24
let's see if we we can come up with something better.
20:26
Yeah. No, it's interesting because I
20:28
want to say around that time, modernist cuisine is like big
20:31
movement. I want to say the big books are
20:32
coming out, right? Yeah, and I remember.
20:35
I actually, I had Nathan Myhrvold at the restaurant,
20:37
right. I had him as one of the guest
20:38
chefs. So it was me, Nathan Myhrvold.
20:41
And was it, I don't remember if it was Sean Brock or what's his
20:46
name from Pujol Enrico Vera. Yeah, it was a Oh no.
20:50
Or maybe it was Ludo and. It was like during South By.
20:53
It was in South by It was, it was a it was a pretty legendary
20:56
week for me just because it was. I got to cook with all my idols.
20:59
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, but it was really cool
21:01
to see Nathan Myhrvold be the the guest chef for the thing.
21:05
Because actually I had an amazing meal at the Modernist
21:08
Test Kitchen in Seattle, right? It was probably up there for me.
21:12
Yeah, Yeah. A lot of his techniques, I mean,
21:14
his book, I have it on PDF. I don't have the hard coverage,
21:17
but I remember going through because I, I was dabbling in
21:20
that. Like when I remember I had the
21:22
Albuli set, it came with ACD and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
21:25
I used to geek out on that. I was trying to do that food and
21:27
no one was really doing it in the States, but it was still
21:31
like it was different back then. If you were trying to self self
21:34
teach, sure, because you just read the recipes like and then
21:37
you just. Like now you do it, you mess up,
21:39
you taste bad and. You just, and you don't have to
21:41
ask the question like what did I do wrong here?
21:43
So you just, you know, it's a lot of trial and error.
21:44
Foods in season and not foods in season.
21:46
What was that guy's name that was in Virginia that had that
21:48
blog? Dude, I used to be on that blog
21:51
all the time. It's something I know the ideas
21:54
in food. Yes, Right.
21:55
Yeah. Yes, yes, yeah, he's in food.
21:58
Yeah, that was a huge help for me.
21:59
Yeah, it was when people were still doing blogs and taking
22:01
pictures. Now YouTube obviously speed
22:05
things up. How do you deal with?
22:07
So I want to ask you this, how do you deal with a lot of new
22:10
people coming into the kitchen now that maybe wanted a little
22:14
bit quicker? They studied on YouTube, they
22:16
watched a lot of Chef Steps videos, you know, they follow
22:20
all the right people on Instagram and then they come
22:21
into your restaurants as like, no, no, I want to do this
22:23
because it's the right way to do it.
22:24
I saw so and so do. It, I, I, I deal with it with
22:26
grace these days. They think it used to frustrate
22:29
me early on, maybe early on the last couple years, you know, and
22:33
like, I feel like nowadays I'm just like, OK, let's see what
22:37
you got. Let me see what you do and let
22:38
me see how I can help you. Right.
22:40
So I just kind of approach it from a way of not nervously
22:43
saying, no, I know better, but just say I'm like, hey, let's
22:46
try it. Let me see what you can do.
22:48
And if it's not good, you know, we're just going to do it my
22:50
way, you know? So yeah.
22:52
Yeah, well, it's funny because now, I mean, there's an
22:55
advantage now that the cooks have that we didn't have come up
22:58
because, like, if I didn't know how to do something, I just had
23:00
to figure it out or wait. And it might take me months to
23:03
get there. Correct.
23:03
So now it's like it's expedited. Yeah.
23:05
Let me ask ChatGPT. Let me watch a quick video.
23:07
I can figure it out in half the time so I can get there quicker.
23:10
But there's something to be learned in in in the old days by
23:14
fucking up 100 times. Yep.
23:16
Like, no, it it says a lot, man. It says a lot even with, you
23:20
know, I feel like there's a lot of young managers that are great
23:23
on the books, great when you talk to them, but don't have the
23:25
practical experience moving through a restaurant, right?
23:28
That kind of callous only comes with time, right?
23:30
And I mean, you need to be able to burn your hands a little bit,
23:33
figure it out, you know, cut yourself, you know, not on
23:36
purpose, but you know what I mean?
23:37
That's got yourself over accident and and then you learn,
23:39
you know, like. Yeah, and it's interesting
23:41
because a lot of chefs, you know, when I was winding down my
23:44
career as a chef, like I was calm for everything.
23:46
Like fucking sky could be on like a yeah, it's it's OK.
23:50
It's not the end. And some people would ask me
23:51
like, why are you so calm? It's like, because I've seen
23:53
like every fucking disaster you're going to throw.
23:55
I've seen it. I'm not too worried about it.
23:57
We'll get through it. But until you've gotten through
24:00
it, like you haven't built that callus up.
24:02
Like just do this, this and this.
24:04
And to the new cook, to the new sous chef, it's like it's the
24:06
end of the world. Like I've I know everything
24:08
about cooking, but I don't know how to deal with two call offs
24:11
and A and a full board. Yeah, right.
24:13
It just happens when you engage it, right?
24:15
It's like it's the more experience you have in it, the
24:17
better you'll get, you know? But you can't.
24:19
There's no manual for it. Yeah, going back to the
24:22
restaurant group, how do you spread your time between, you
24:26
know, Colorado, Miami, Houston, Austin and everywhere else?
24:29
And you're talking about opening up new concepts as well.
24:31
Like what does your day-to-day look like?
24:34
I mean, my day-to-day it's, it can be fairly hectic.
24:37
I mean, like right now, like I spend most of my days at top row
24:40
just to make sure we can launch the brand appropriately, you
24:43
know, But my day-to-day is basically like, I'll look at my
24:47
phone. I I and, and this, I know it's a
24:50
little bit more old school, but I like, I like end of day emails
24:53
from all my operations that I can review in the morning.
24:56
Yeah, right. I'm starting to learn more about
24:58
stuff like, you know, like my new OPS director here in Austin,
25:02
like he introduced me to craftable and I'm craftable.
25:05
Craftable is a, it's like a, like a inventory purchasing, you
25:10
know, like it's a, it's like a, like a, it's a software to help
25:13
me deal with my cogs. So like I review that every
25:16
morning. I'll review my toast, my toast
25:18
reports every morning. And I kind of.
25:20
For people that are listening to hogs, is cost of goods sold.
25:22
Yeah, yeah. If you don't know what that is,
25:24
cost of goods sold, yeah. But you know, like, but the
25:27
beauty of my position right now is that I feel like I'm, and
25:30
again, I'm going to step out of the operation once I get the
25:33
right team in place, is that I still get to cook.
25:36
I still get to cook, I get to make food.
25:38
But I I'm having to do with all all the admin that goes with
25:42
running a business, right? If you had to say what your
25:44
split is from a creative standpoint, like when I say
25:47
creative, I mean cooking, like literally cooking or angry about
25:49
food or having to deal with admin stuff like invoices,
25:52
processing, business deals, stuff like that.
25:54
What's your? What's your?
25:55
I'm split. I think it's a pretty even split
25:57
right now. I mean it, see, I mean, since I
26:00
am working those services at the restaurant, it, it makes it a
26:03
little bit more difficult. But back to what you're saying
26:06
about like how I was able to grow my empire, like my CDC and
26:10
power FAN has been, she's been with me for seven years,
26:13
operations director for Eastside King and Tycoon.
26:16
She's been with me for 12 years, you know what I mean?
26:19
So it's just about the people. And and of course, Moto, my
26:22
business partner there. I've, I've, he was on the line.
26:25
He trained Tyson how to make sushi rolls back in the day.
26:27
I'm with Sushino and I've worked with him since 2000 and five
26:31
2006. And where's she with you?
26:33
For East Tyking and Tycoon. Why?
26:34
And of course, Thai, my boy Thai who I've known and he just
26:37
opened P Thai, which is the best Thai food in Austin.
26:39
Yeah, he he was with me since I think OE da duchi so like to
26:44
pitai. Yeah, it's it's fucking amazing.
26:47
It's my first. It's my favorite restaurant in
26:49
Austin. And then, of course, besides our
26:52
own, you know, yeah. And yeah, and that's that's sort
26:55
of how I roll, man. I roll with people that I know I
26:57
could trust, can watch my back, that been with me for a long
26:59
time, and know my personality. From from a creative process,
27:02
How does how does the creative process work as the collective
27:05
group? Or does it work with individual
27:07
restaurants? It works with individual
27:09
restaurants. And this is what I tell every,
27:12
every time I step into the market.
27:13
I want the I want the people making and growing the food to
27:16
tell me what to do with the food.
27:18
Yeah, you know, I want the farmer to tell me what my menu
27:20
is. I want the, I want my fishmonger
27:22
to tell me I need to put this on the menu tonight.
27:24
And that's what I roll off of. Yeah, yeah.
27:26
So when you're developing written menus, let's just use
27:30
your restaurants in Austin and you have you have your executive
27:33
chefs in there. How involved are you in the
27:35
process? Well, that's the thing that I
27:36
don't have an executive chef in every single one of them, Right?
27:39
Yeah, right. I feel like Carol's Chef cuisine
27:42
Oco. I don't know.
27:44
I only have sous chefs at top Row right now.
27:46
OK. You know, like, I like to, I
27:48
like to get to a point where I get to know these chefs.
27:51
I get to know that I can hand them the keys and I get to grow
27:53
the empire with them. You know, like Ty, like Ty, for
27:56
example. He's the executive chef for
27:58
Tycoon. He has his own restaurant as
28:00
well and we've kind of grown together.
28:02
Yeah. You know Eastside King is
28:04
essentially Moto that I've been with him for a long time right.
28:07
So but but but for me, it's different for each restaurant
28:10
and I don't have like AI don't have a colony director per SE
28:13
that runs each that runs my whole operation.
28:16
You wear. That hat.
28:16
So I sort of wear that hat, yeah, but I can also wear the
28:19
Cook's hat, which I'm still been automatically been.
28:22
I'm pretty grateful that I'm I can still be in that space, but
28:25
still build an empire and run a business.
28:27
Yes, you still have to throw down on the.
28:29
Line Oh yeah, dude, I'll throw down.
28:30
Yeah, I'll throw down. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
28:33
I think before we opened OCO right, I it was still post
28:36
pandemic, very short post pandemic and I did a pop up when
28:41
it was still lasting. Then I had to do the two day pop
28:44
up. I was me and one other person.
28:46
We're doing 100 covers each each day and I had to rock the line
28:50
by myself. Oh you know, like cracking like
28:53
8-9 grand worth of food. To anyone listening to what
28:55
Paul, he's still got it. He could.
28:57
Still throw down on the live. So I'll still throw down on the
28:59
live and I realize I'm like, man, this is what I fucking
29:02
enjoy. Yeah, this is what I love, man.
29:04
I'm just like, you know, like it's great.
29:07
Yeah. So I want to ask you because
29:09
we're recording early January, Brent, right into the new year.
29:13
I just put out a podcast today actually about 2025 food trends.
29:17
Yeah. What do you think the big food
29:20
trends are in 2025 and this is going to lead into you mentioned
29:23
you have 8 restaurants you want to open.
29:25
I want to see how what you predict the food trends are for
29:27
this year are going to. How is How does that tie into
29:30
the restaurants that you want to open?
29:31
And I don't know if it really ties into the restaurants that
29:33
want to open, but because, I mean, like, I feel like food is
29:37
always in a cycle, right? It's like fashion, right?
29:39
There's a cycle that comes with it.
29:41
I really think Tex Mex in Southwestern cuisine is coming
29:44
back to some degree. Right?
29:45
Yeah. What?
29:46
What do you mean? Like, because that's like, are
29:49
we talking like, I mean enchiladas and.
29:51
Yeah, dude, like Enchiladas, like Chichi's.
29:53
Like Chichi's was the first Mexican restaurant that I've
29:56
ever seen. I mean that that I experienced
29:58
when I first moved to America in 1990.
30:00
Yeah. Do you think it'll be a
30:01
different version of Tex mex or? I think it, I think it's going
30:04
to be a modern and different version.
30:05
I mean, you already see it with something like BBQ, right?
30:07
Where you got old school and new school, right?
30:09
I think like I think that you can't discount a cuisine that
30:12
had such giant impact, especially in Texas in the
30:15
Southwest. I mean, you've got like Steven
30:17
Pyle and all those guys. I mean, you come from Dallas.
30:18
Yeah. That was like the hub for a
30:20
while. Yeah.
30:21
We're all cuisine in Texas. And it was all.
30:23
And it wanted to be Dean. And it was all Southwestern
30:25
cuisine. So I'm like, there's there's a
30:27
little sense in that right to where the cycle will come back
30:29
around, I think with a modern flair, modern ingredients,
30:32
because for a while it was looked at.
30:34
I'm like, OK, this is this is trash.
30:36
You know, it's like beans from McCann deep with queso on it.
30:39
And that's what the food is. But there's a lot more to it
30:42
than that, you know, And I got see, you can start to see some
30:45
of the list of the restaurants that are popping off and, you
30:47
know, like, I'm glad that the food writers are travelling the
30:49
place thing. They're like Arizona and New
30:51
Mexico finding these restaurants, you know?
30:53
Yeah, sort of the same restaurants that they're looking
30:55
for outside of the major Texas cities.
30:57
Right. Right.
30:58
I mean, shit like Gabe, I like, I was so mad when Gabe opened
31:01
his Tex Mex restaurant in DC. I'm like, damn, man.
31:04
I asked him how it's doing. He said he's questioning it.
31:05
Yeah, because people get that food.
31:07
But but my thing is, no chef gave it an opportunity to make
31:11
it nicer because they were like, oh, that, that, that, that
31:13
cuisine's garden. Why am I going to do that, you
31:15
know? What I mean you wouldn't be
31:16
taken serious as a chef 15 years ago if you said I do Tex Mex
31:21
correct like people say you're not a real correct.
31:23
Right, Yeah. I mean, it's the same thing with
31:24
sushi, though. When I started, they didn't even
31:28
none of the lists wouldn't give a nod to sushi chef because
31:31
they're they're not really cooking.
31:33
You know, you're, you're mixing your sauces in a bowl.
31:35
You know, it's not like everybody's spicy Mayo recipe
31:38
that, that, that everybody loves.
31:39
It's not like that they make it. It's a it's a fucking dressing
31:42
right, right that you put together.
31:44
So, so sushi chefs got zero respect, you know, for a long
31:48
time. So I feel like Tex Mex is on
31:50
that same route. And the other thing is Chinese
31:53
food, American Chinese food, like.
31:55
Like kung pao chicken, stuff like.
31:56
That pretty much, you know, and I feel like, you know, like
31:58
mission Chinese, Mission Chinese kind of broke the ground a
32:01
little bit, kind of went away. Yeah.
32:03
Everybody did their own thing. And then I'm starting to see
32:06
stuff now. I think like, I think Mainlin
32:08
from Top Chef, I think she's opening a new restaurant in LA
32:11
where it's like higher in Chinese.
32:13
And then I'm looking at some of the trends from China and Hong
32:17
Kong. And I'm like, holy shit.
32:18
Everything I'm liking, it's like, it's like a Chinese,
32:20
Chinese restaurant, like a Chinese American restaurant,
32:23
like. You know, one of my one of my
32:25
friends shout out to Blake. He's a chef.
32:27
Also. We would always have this
32:29
conversation like, like I could eat fucking Panda Express all
32:32
the time. Like I fucking eat.
32:33
The shit out of Panda Express done right, it's fucking
32:36
delicious, yeah. Like give me a.
32:37
Swanee, Panda Express. Exactly No, If, if, if the walk
32:40
if they know if they've got the right walk cook.
32:42
Yeah, they know how to walk it the right way and have the right
32:45
measure of sauce, which is I mean, the training part is like,
32:48
yeah, like don't discount it, man.
32:50
You'll throw any line cook on a walk through, they'll burn.
32:52
No, they won't even be gonna handle it.
32:54
They don't know what a hotline is.
32:55
They'll tell you what they're. Constant for, yeah.
32:57
So I'm like to take that much skill and just to discount the
33:00
cuisine because you're like because you see it everywhere.
33:02
One it tells me that it's popular.
33:04
So there's something there. Yeah, it's delicious, Get it?
33:07
So why don't we just make it nicer?
33:08
Yeah, you know, yeah, I, I, I like that idea of, of, of, of
33:13
American Chinese food making a company because I love it,
33:15
honestly. It's something I could.
33:16
Probably eat every day. Exactly.
33:18
It's something that every chef's embarrassed to say that they
33:21
they like. Yeah, as a matter of fact, I'd
33:23
have to use. I have my three parts.
33:26
You know what I mean? Like, OK, yeah.
33:28
Yeah. So what else besides those two?
33:30
Do you have any other predictions?
33:32
For, for food, I don't know, man, I feel like I, I see a lot
33:34
of the new school restaurants and, and, and I, I like the idea
33:38
that nothing like it doesn't have to be like authentic.
33:41
It doesn't have to be authentic. It's interior Mexican because I
33:44
mean like even the restaurants that are opening now, it's not
33:47
dude, I'm looking at people's menus.
33:48
I'm like, oh, you got Wagyu this Wagyu that you got, you know,
33:51
like even in a Latin restaurant sounds like a Asian restaurant
33:53
at some point, right? Oh, and I mean like, and it's
33:57
funny that you had David's when you were interviewing David
34:01
Sucio about it, right? Guillotte.
34:04
But it you mean we're talking about, you know, like a lot of
34:07
the Chino Latino connections, like the Chino Latino food is
34:10
fire. I don't care.
34:11
Like it's coming from Miami. I see it a lot, whether it's
34:14
Chinese, Puerto Rican, Chinese, Peruvian, you know, it, it's
34:17
it's fire. Like chief of cuisine is, is
34:19
making it's making its mark. And then that all sits into that
34:23
realm of, you know, like, I guess modernize or, you know,
34:28
you know, American Chinese, like like the Chinese fusion thing.
34:30
It's huge. Yeah.
34:31
So how does this tie into the restaurants that you're doing,
34:34
if at all? And so you, when you say you
34:36
want to open up 8 restaurants or you're going to open up 8
34:38
restaurants, what does that look like?
34:39
What can you share? So I mean, like some of the
34:41
restaurants, like I told you, like Golf Strommen, there's
34:43
brands I've already tested out with friends of mine.
34:45
So like Golf Strommen started with me and my buddy Christopher
34:48
Hotsoff. He's a Michelin star chef from
34:50
Bergen, Norway. He's also, he was also per SE
34:54
for a very long time, you know, and me and him wanted to do a
34:58
sustainable seafood and steakhouse.
34:59
Yeah, you know, so, so we already, that brand's already
35:03
existed. We're going to open in the first
35:04
location, brick and mortar location, probably in Chicago
35:07
this year. He's already under construction.
35:10
And then the other thing I'm I'm going to try to do is, I mean,
35:14
we're doing, we're also going to we're going to eventually do I
35:17
want to do a Thai. It's a Japanese, I'm sorry, a
35:20
Thai, a Thai Mexican restaurant is what I want to do because I
35:25
feel like, what's that? What is that?
35:26
I feel like today cuisines are similar.
35:27
Exactly Lime salon training. Like Thailand can't claim having
35:31
Chili's, right, that came from the Americas, right, right, you
35:33
know, and then, you know, Thailand was able to adapt and
35:36
and learn how to use it to like it probably better than they
35:39
have in in Mexico. But it's a different type of
35:41
heat, right that they are they sort of play with and I think
35:45
melding the two even making like Molay or Curry is the same.
35:49
Very similar. Yeah, I agree.
35:50
I want. You want that on the enchilada
35:52
with some good cheese and some meat in it.
35:53
Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, why not?
35:57
Why not? You know, yeah, that sounds
36:00
good. So is there a restaurant that
36:03
like, is a bucket list restaurant that you'd love to
36:05
open? Like, money's no object,
36:08
infinite amount of resources. There's something that you would
36:10
like to do that you haven't done or that you're not working on.
36:14
I don't know, man. That's, that's a tough one,
36:17
'cause I'm, I'm, I'm trying to make all my dreams come true.
36:19
It turns in my bucket list, right?
36:21
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, from a financial
36:22
standpoint, yeah. I want to own a steakhouse.
36:24
Yeah. They want to own an Italian
36:25
restaurant. Yeah, I want to own an Italian
36:27
restaurant. I was out.
36:28
I don't know how to make pasta but I can make some fire ass
36:30
sauces that aren't necessarily Italian though go really well
36:33
with pasta. Yeah, it's funny.
36:35
I always talk with Gabe and and Rico's.
36:37
Like let's open up a Mexican steakhouse.
36:39
Yeah, like that's what I want to do.
36:40
Yeah, like, like it's. Funny that you mention that
36:42
'cause I I'm going to open a Mexican steakhouse South
36:44
Congress. We're going to, we're not going
36:47
to open one, but I I love the idea of a Mexican steakhouse.
36:50
It's like, yeah, I've always thought like steakhouse is one
36:53
they have good margins, like you can make a lot of money on,
36:55
Correct. You selling a steak for 150
36:57
bucks? Yeah, food cost is high, but
36:58
you're making like 100 bucks per year, right.
37:00
Yeah, so, so I like that, but I also think.
37:03
It's the sauces man. The sauces help.
37:05
I mean you can only go to send them so much a poib, so much of
37:09
this Demi that most places don't even make they just buy it
37:12
right? And being Hispanic, like
37:14
sometimes I don't eat my steak always with that.
37:16
I want a tortilla. I want some grilled onions.
37:18
I want salsa. On the meat.
37:19
All the flavor, man, All the flavor.
37:21
Yes, yes. I was like, damn, we need to do
37:23
a Mexican. Yeah, I go.
37:24
So anyway, yeah, fuck, we could talk about that for.
37:28
Yeah, that's all right. We could do.
37:30
Talk about steak houses the next thing, because that's one thing
37:32
I've been researching quite heavily is steak houses and how
37:35
to how to make it a little bit different.
37:36
Yeah. You know Steakhouse needs a
37:38
rebrand, especially for the modern palette.
37:41
I think so, man. I think so.
37:43
And it's hard with steak houses because there's certain things
37:46
that you always got to give them, right?
37:47
You always got to have your mashed potatoes, your creamed
37:49
spinachers, you know, like. But you're starting to see a
37:51
lotes on people's menus, right. You're starting to see like, you
37:55
know, you got your Brussels sprouts, you got your lotes.
37:56
You you almost always see fried rice now on every steak menu.
38:00
Yeah. You go to any of these steak
38:01
houses downtown, they have crab fried rice.
38:02
Really. Yeah.
38:03
Dude, I didn't know that. Yeah.
38:04
Yeah. I can name at least 5 or 6
38:06
that's downtown right now. It has fried.
38:08
Rice. Why?
38:08
Why fried rice? I mean besides.
38:11
Is that good? But.
38:12
It's part of the steak culture now.
38:14
It's weird to me, you know, but I mean, but it's pretty smart
38:16
because that's what people want to eat with sides.
38:17
I mean, so that tells me that people are tired of just doing
38:20
Mac and cheese and stuff. I'm not saying that Mac and
38:22
cheese is wrong, but I mean, I'm great.
38:23
But you know, but it's like we. Have enough of those?
38:25
Yes, we have enough of those. We have enough of steak houses
38:27
that have mashed clothes, Mac and cheese and, you know, Caesar
38:30
salad. Like give us something
38:31
different. The other the other type of
38:32
restaurant wanted to open and that I I again, I this is just
38:35
like a sort of a dream that they could be cool would be just all
38:39
outdoor space. Yeah, have those Argentine
38:42
parrillas, you know, and just do it kind of like a like a Korean,
38:46
a Korean Argentine, like a Korean Argentinian, a Brazilian
38:52
steakhouse type deal. Right where you're, you're going
38:54
around with the meat. You said all the bonchon.
38:56
So it's still all you can eat on the bonchon and the kimchis, but
38:59
you're outdoors firing it up on on wood, you know what I mean?
39:03
Yeah. Let me ask you this just because
39:06
your your your mind is really interesting how it how it works
39:08
when we're having conversations with my creative process for me
39:13
is I need to sit down. I need a quiet room.
39:15
I need some green tea, have some classical music and I need
39:17
everyone out Yeah. And then I just write.
39:19
Now how does how do your? Ideas come.
39:21
My ideas come by talking to people.
39:23
Yeah. I like being around the
39:24
restaurant. I like, I like.
39:25
I like. I like dreaming.
39:26
I like and, and sometimes they come up kind of randomly.
39:30
I think my brain's just kind of twisted in a way where I'm just
39:32
always thinking about restaurants or food because I
39:35
mean, I don't love just food and I don't love just restaurants.
39:40
I love everything about the industry.
39:42
So like I geek out over condiments, you know, and I look
39:45
up. I mean, one of my favorite
39:46
things to do back in the day to get inspired for recipes and
39:49
sauces was to look at the ingredient list.
39:52
I mean of course this is pre YouTube days or you can get all
39:55
the info online. So I'll just read up on what
39:57
these ingredients are and what, why, why, why, why I would
40:01
utilize what's in those ingredients and I try to copy
40:04
it. Yeah, so that's how I start.
40:05
Was there ever any moment when you were doing that you're like,
40:07
fuck, what is that? And then you made it like, oh,
40:09
that's what that is like. Just a mind blowing moment.
40:11
For sure, man. I mean, it's still on all Uchi's
40:13
menus, you know, like they use a kosher we made in house, you
40:15
know, like, and I didn't do it with Yuzu, I did it with limes
40:18
and then everybody uses it now. Yeah, yeah, I was just making a
40:21
lime kosho. Yeah.
40:23
And but I mean, this was before a lime kosher because this was
40:25
like at 06, right? So we didn't call it a lime
40:27
kosher. I just called it a user kosher.
40:28
But I copied it and then we did that.
40:30
Everybody's like, oh, this is what this kosher is, You know,
40:32
sort of the same thing with fried Brussels sprouts.
40:34
I started frying Brussels sprouts into 0405.
40:37
That's always in Eastside Kings. Venue Taurus.
40:38
It's on everyone's venue. It's adding on everyone's menu
40:40
now, you know, and and again, a nod to modernist cuisine like
40:44
you know, everybody's favorite, you know, either if you're if
40:47
you're at Uchi, it's their beef Toro.
40:51
It's like their the the short rib that they put on the negiri
40:54
piece. Yeah, right.
40:55
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that recipe came from Nathan
40:57
Muir of old, and I got inspired because I'm in him on Top Chef.
40:59
Yeah. And then as soon as I got a Top
41:03
Chef, I put it on Nucci's menu, Right.
41:05
And then as soon as I open Pow, I, I, I, I shifted it a little
41:08
bit and I put it on a Pow's menu.
41:10
Yeah, but we do it as a smoked short rib over there.
41:12
Yeah. And then and then when I I did
41:14
some work for the poppy steak guys, I put it on poppy steak as
41:17
pastrami, but it's the same base recipe, so.
41:20
Yeah, I mentioned Top Chef and I want to ask you this.
41:22
So you want Top Chef? What, like 2010?
41:26
Yeah, it was 2010, I think Season 9.
41:28
What made you want to go on? I was the Top Chef.
41:31
Texas, right? Yeah, it was Top Check Texas.
41:33
I wanted to go on because I thought I'd be respond, I'd be
41:36
responsible partner to my future restaurant partners, which was
41:41
key because I already had the restaurant deal before that,
41:43
right. I already had East Side King
41:44
before Top Chef. I actually didn't know if I
41:46
wanted to go on Top Chef because I was like, man, I'm going to
41:48
lose all my street credit if I go on Top Chef.
41:50
Yeah. Because it was back then, you
41:51
know, when Chang was kind of hating on Top Chef and all, all
41:54
the chefs like Bourdain, all those guys would like kind of
41:56
make fun of the Top Chef people. Yeah.
41:57
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
41:58
And then I was like, do I really want to go on top right now?
42:01
Because I'm already in a pretty good trajectory and I have a
42:03
restaurant already. But yeah, I was like, you know
42:05
what? Fuck it.
42:06
You know, being on TV can't be that bad.
42:08
Let, let. Let's go for it.
42:11
It's it's interesting. So I've never, I don't know if
42:13
I've ever shared this with anyone on the podcast, but
42:15
around that time, so after you had done Top Chef, the
42:18
restaurant that I was in where I was a partner, my, my PR person
42:22
said, Hey, do you want to go on Top Chef?
42:25
And I was like, I don't know. So I want to talk to a friend
42:27
and they're like, you have nothing to to gain because
42:30
you're already, you're already a partner.
42:32
Like what? What are you going to get your
42:33
own restaurant? You have that.
42:34
And I was like, yeah, you're right.
42:35
So I I ended up saying no, no, it's not for me.
42:37
He's like, you have a lot to lose.
42:40
If you don't win, you won. So it's like you, you didn't
42:43
have a lot. I mean, in retrospect, if you
42:45
had known that, maybe you would have made a different decision,
42:47
but. Yeah, I don't, I don't know,
42:48
man. I don't know.
42:49
I mean, it was, it was it was, it opened a lot of doors.
42:52
It was pretty good. Is it, is it me?
42:54
Not really. But I mean, like, it felt good
42:56
to be able to to win the way I did.
42:58
I was able to, yeah. You know, because I feel like
43:01
everybody that wants to get on that show wants to be famous.
43:03
All I wanted to do was not get eliminated the next challenge.
43:06
Yeah, that's so So Tom Colicchios has said about you
43:09
that you were the best cook on on Top Chef, not just that
43:12
season, but usually I think he said you were like the best
43:14
cookie I've ever seen on top. Yeah, right.
43:17
And he's like we had to, and I'm, I'm paraphrasing what he
43:20
said, but he's like, we had to make make it look better for TV.
43:23
And you were you were smoking everyone.
43:26
What was what is something about that show that people don't know
43:31
that watch it? Like for the audience watching
43:33
it, it's like, you know, it's, it's a lot of smoke and mirrors.
43:35
Like it's entertainment. Like what?
43:36
Something about the show that you're not surprised.
43:38
You're talking about a stressful environment.
43:40
That's what they put you in, right?
43:42
I mean, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a social experiment, right?
43:45
You put everybody in A room that are strangers, that are all
43:48
chefs. They're supposed to compete with
43:49
each other. Yeah.
43:50
There's no TV. No, there's no TV, no cell
43:54
phone, no books, no nothing to read.
43:55
So you have to interact with your roommate.
43:57
Yeah. You know, And I mean, think
43:59
about, like, I don't know, I haven't had a roommate in, like,
44:01
20 years. But like, you know, like think
44:03
about getting thrown back into a house with a bunch of people
44:06
that you don't know and you don't know their habits.
44:07
Right. Interesting So so so they're
44:11
putting you around people and they're creating situations that
44:14
could be they're adding an extra like sleep deprivation or, you
44:17
know, maybe the lights are on I. Mean.
44:19
It's not like CIA torture. Yeah, I don't think it's CIA
44:22
torture. It's not that bad.
44:23
They gave you an ample time to sleep.
44:24
They just wake you up early sometimes, you know, but.
44:27
But it's definitely a formula for people not not not getting
44:30
along. Considering that you have to
44:31
compete with them, you know, you're naturally having to
44:33
compete with somebody and you're in the same room with them.
44:35
Yeah. Interesting.
44:36
If someone like today, if someone was coming up to you
44:40
like an up and coming sous chef or an up and coming chef and
44:43
they said, hey, should I go on Top Chef, what would you say to
44:45
that? I'd say.
44:45
Go do it, man. Yeah, go do it.
44:47
But don't like this. No, make like, but, but figure
44:49
out what you want and who you are.
44:51
And it's OK to want to be a celebrity.
44:53
There's nothing wrong with that, right?
44:55
But know that that's what you're doing.
44:57
Yeah, You know what I mean? And it's OK to just be a chef
45:00
and just cook, you know? But again, but know what?
45:02
That's what exactly what you want and what you're doing.
45:04
Do you? Think and I have my own feelings
45:07
about it, but I'll I'll do you think, do you think because I I
45:10
want to say like maybe the first seasons, I would say maybe up in
45:12
two years and maybe a couple of after that.
45:15
If you won, I think it was great for you and even if you were on,
45:18
I also think it was great for you some of.
45:19
The most successful guys then win, right?
45:22
They're they're the guys that knew that they want to be a
45:24
celebrity. They didn't want to do
45:26
restaurants. They're going to get as much
45:28
exposure as they want and they utilize it to to get what to to
45:31
gain what they're looking for. If someone goes on Top Chef
45:33
today, do you do you think they have the same amount of
45:36
opportunities as someone that was on Top Chef 10 years ago?
45:39
And I'm not talking about the winner.
45:40
I'm just talking to someone that's going on.
45:42
I think it I think it really does depend on the person and it
45:45
seems like, I don't know, it seems like the last few seasons
45:48
are going for people that can that that actually cook in
45:51
restaurants still, But you got to think it's also like a a 20
45:56
season show now, you know, So it's not like it's a.
45:58
Lot of people have been on. Yeah.
45:59
And but it's also not a primetime show.
46:01
It's not as exciting anymore, right?
46:03
Yeah. So a lot of probably sponsors
46:05
cause other cooking shows now, right.
46:06
And then they throw you into that space where you competing
46:09
with other cooking celebrities on top of, you know, in social
46:13
media celebrities now, right, right.
46:15
So you're competing against all these people.
46:17
And it just cuz you're in a cooking competition show doesn't
46:19
mean that you're more charismatic on camera to get
46:22
more opportunities because that's what it comes down to,
46:24
right? If you want to be famous in that
46:25
realm, you know. I had I had judged auditions.
46:28
I won't see which cooking show, but I had judged auditions for a
46:30
cooking show, and it was the first time I'd ever judged it.
46:32
And I remember the producer said, you know, you got to taste
46:36
her food, blah, blah, blah. And, you know, rate that we have
46:39
the things that we're checking off, she said, But if they have
46:40
a really interesting personality and their food's not great, call
46:42
me. Exactly.
46:44
Right. Exactly.
46:45
Yeah. Yeah.
46:45
Yeah. So I thought, oh, OK.
46:46
So it's like their food is trash, but they're fucking
46:48
colorful. Call me.
46:50
Yeah, yeah, still reality TV, right?
46:52
So there still has to be one or two people that they're like,
46:55
OK, this guy's going to the. Antagonist, right?
46:57
They're building a storyline too, right?
46:59
Yeah. Interesting I.
47:00
Feel like I had a fantasy at one point.
47:02
I was like, man, I really want to get back on Top Chef, but I
47:03
want to go back as a villain. Yeah, you.
47:06
Had like fubro salted. It turned everyone's other off.
47:09
Yeah, you should. Yeah, Top chefs watching like,
47:11
hey, let's do this. Anyway, I want to ask about
47:18
advice. So a lot of people that listen
47:21
to the show or they're young cooks, they're young chefs and
47:23
they're just trying to make it so if you could go back and you
47:27
look at your career and you had a great career.
47:28
But if if someone was coming into the industry right now,
47:30
green as can be, right out of culinary school or right out of
47:32
high school, and they want to be a great chef, they look at what
47:35
you've accomplished and say I want that.
47:36
What advice would you give them coming into the industry right
47:38
now? Yeah, be humble, be humble.
47:42
Of course, be smart. But I mean risk respect.
47:46
For me, it's just about respecting, I feel like.
47:50
I mean the straight, like for me, it's about when you go in,
47:54
you're humble. You go in as a, you know, empty
47:57
glass, you know, soak up as much as you can.
47:59
Ask a bunch of questions. Of course, don't let people take
48:02
advantage of you, but be, be a sponge, man, ask questions and
48:06
don't, don't come in saying, Hey, I know how to do this,
48:09
right. That's probably the worst thing,
48:10
you know, like, and, and for me, I feel like I'm finding fewer
48:15
and fewer candidates that just really want to be a chef, you
48:18
know, But if you, if you do go into a kitchen and learn as much
48:21
as you can, you know, always be positive, always give credit.
48:26
And, and for me, that what worked for me was finding a chef
48:31
that, I mean, I, I respected and saying, Hey, I'll be here for
48:34
you no matter what. And, you know, and I rode that
48:37
way for eight years, you know, and that sort of worked for me.
48:40
But like, again, for a young chef, I would just say, hey,
48:43
just just come in not knowing anything.
48:45
I'm really, but, but, but, but really pick your mentor though,
48:48
too. You know, those are important.
48:50
They'll go blindly into a kitchen, right?
48:53
Pick somebody you really look up to.
48:54
You can really get down with their values.
48:56
And the values are very important, not just the food,
48:58
right? Their work values, their work
49:00
ethic, how the kitchen is operating.
49:02
Find that right place because it's like interview, it's like
49:05
interviewing your mentor, right? Pick the right one.
49:08
Come in humble and learn as much as you can.
49:10
What what's interesting is I've noticed this a lot in kitchens
49:14
when you're a new cook and the vultures kind of surround you.
49:18
Like everyone kind of wants to be your mentor.
49:20
And sometimes it's like bad line cooks.
49:22
Yeah, like there's going to be a lot of those.
49:24
Like there's a lot of people. Oh, let me show you the ropes
49:26
and give. Me a lot of.
49:26
Those and and they just want to feed you negative bullshit.
49:28
This industry sucks and this that and the other and so like
49:31
people that are listening like be be prepared because the
49:34
vultures do come out. And just because someone wants
49:36
to mentor you doesn't mean it's the right mentor.
49:38
Correct. It's usually not the right
49:40
mentor because usually when people come to me, ask me to
49:42
mentor them, I try to talk them out of it.
49:44
I give them all the shit in the beginning, right up front.
49:47
This is This is why you shouldn't do this.
49:48
This sucks. This is what you're going to pay
49:50
is like. I set the expectation right in
49:52
the beginning. If you still want to do this,
49:53
then yeah, I'll come. I'll.
49:54
I'll do my best to teach you. Yeah.
49:57
Interesting. So you had said right now that a
50:00
lot of people coming in don't necessarily want to be chefs.
50:03
What is it that they want to like?
50:04
What are what are you hearing? I mean.
50:07
There's been a few where like, hey, I'm about to go on this TV
50:10
show. Can you coach me to do this?
50:12
Or they think it's a good idea at 1st and you know, like they
50:17
realize that maybe it's not for them and or like they want to do
50:20
it, but they can only the only one work mornings.
50:23
You know, like I feel like a part of it.
50:25
It's like, you know what, like I'd rather not hire these guys.
50:27
I'm like just come work for me. Like I'll like or just come hang
50:32
out. You don't even have to work.
50:33
Just come hang out with us for a week and tell me if you like it.
50:35
Right, right. You're making a big decision.
50:37
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you, you might not like it.
50:40
So yeah. And I think a lot of young cooks
50:44
come into the industry and the first thing they want to do is
50:45
they want to get into the creative process right away.
50:47
It's like, yeah, but. By just create.
50:49
Yeah, well, exactly. The foundation is important
50:51
before the creative. The creative.
50:52
I'll listen to your ideas. We could talk about it.
50:55
Yeah, but that's not your job right now.
50:57
Your focus is to get your fundamentals going.
50:59
Yeah, You know, there's no value in your ideas unless you have
51:03
the, you know, you have the the credentials to to execute it and
51:09
be like, you know. If you had like a chef's PSA out
51:13
there for like for cooks or chef, something that let's let's
51:16
think about too, one that like stop doing this cooks and chefs
51:20
like if you're listening, stop doing this in the kitchen and.
51:22
Taste start doing this and you know how common that is.
51:25
Taste your food. Yeah.
51:26
I'm like, I even till this day I'm getting chefs like like, hey
51:30
chef, can you taste this? Took out my pretty plate.
51:32
I'm like, have you have you eaten it?
51:33
And you're like, oh, no, we haven't tasted it.
51:35
I'm like, why are you giving it to me for it?
51:37
Yeah, not, not just like a lot of a lot of chefs will taste
51:40
components like I tasted this, I tasted this like.
51:42
Out of yeah, banana tasted. That's another thing where I'm
51:45
like tasting different components and you're like, Oh
51:47
well, it's supposed to be eating together.
51:48
No, I was like, each component needs to be fucking delicious
51:50
and the whole dish will be delicious, right?
51:52
It's not. It's gonna be delicious because
51:53
you're just putting it all together and this is sweet and
51:55
not sweet, but some balance. It's unbalanced, man, right?
51:57
Yeah. So taste everything individually
51:59
and then taste it together. Correct.
52:00
Yeah, and keep on tasting food, man.
52:02
Right. Like like at top row recently,
52:04
everybody's like especially the luxury stuff, right, Like uni or
52:07
caviar or whatever. I'm like, I tasted in a hand
52:11
roll, right yesterday when we're when we're opening and I was
52:15
like, man, this is a little old. You taste it and they're like,
52:17
no, I don't want to touch it. It's copy.
52:18
I'm like fucking taste it, man. You're serving it to somebody.
52:21
Yeah. Like in this restaurant if it
52:23
doesn't taste. Good, throw it away right,
52:25
right. By the way, I I ate there with
52:28
Rico for it was our New Year's out right and I had your was it
52:33
the matcha? Portugal, Yeah, yeah.
52:34
It was really good with a dog. But Cadre, yeah, it was.
52:37
It was so. Good.
52:38
I got to get props to my to one of my sous chefs, Daniel.
52:40
That that, that, that, that, that that did that.
52:42
Yeah, everything is every. Everything was good, but at the
52:45
table, everyone was fighting for the like, the last, last.
52:47
Yeah. Feel good.
52:48
Yeah. It was really good.
52:49
Yeah. It was fun.
52:50
And then what's something that so you mentioned, have people
52:53
start tasting their food more. What's something that you want
52:55
to see people stop doing in the kitchen?
52:57
What's what's like that one pet peeve, like stop doing this?
52:59
Yeah. I mean, the biggest thing that
53:01
gets on my nerves when they told me is that not their station
53:03
chef, not my job. Yeah, not my job, not my
53:06
station. I don't care front or back, man.
53:08
This is our house. That's what I tell everybody.
53:09
Yeah, you know, Yeah, that drives me crazy.
53:12
Not bad station. Yeah.
53:14
Yeah, it is. I mean, physically doing in the
53:17
kitchen, man. Like for me, it's just like,
53:19
man, stop fucking putting towels in your pockets.
53:21
Yeah, you know what I mean? Like that gets on me too.
53:23
I'm like, clean your bane. I don't want 1000 spoons in your
53:27
fucking bane. Like you only need 222 or three.
53:30
Make sure you rinse it and clean it every single time.
53:32
Yeah, I mean, sushi specific, like everybody has a little bowl
53:36
of water, right for rice. I'm like, that can't look like
53:38
rice soup. It's got to be clear every
53:40
single time. There has to be a fucking
53:41
sterile environment. You know it has to be completely
53:43
sterile, right? Because you're serving raw food.
53:46
Yeah. You know, And then like, well,
53:47
well, what are other things, man?
53:48
There, there's actually quite a few that that really get on my
53:51
let's go, let's go. And this is sort of the part of
53:53
me like, I'm like, hey, man, I shouldn't have been the chef
53:55
because I put the chef hat on. And then I'm like OCD, right?
53:57
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like for me it's just
53:59
like cutting, cutting the tape on the fucking labels.
54:02
So do you scissors? Do you use tape cutters?
54:03
We have a tape cutter, but I I prefer I prefer the cutting
54:06
board and and the knife. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
54:10
You know, consolidating, rotating, tasting the food is,
54:13
is a huge thing. And, and putting fucking care in
54:15
a family meal, man. Yeah.
54:17
Like, for me, it's just like if you're going to play it a family
54:19
meal, plate it up like feeding somebody.
54:20
It's not it's not an afterthought.
54:22
It's never an afterthought. Yeah.
54:23
You know, taking care of your people is number 1, you know.
54:27
Oh, flipping, flipping pans at the end of the night as well.
54:29
And I think saute stations that use too many pants.
54:32
Yeah, like if you have 6 burgers, you have 12 burgers,
54:35
you don't really need 30 pans or, you know, like stacks of
54:37
sinks or whatever. It's not like it's going to heat
54:39
up any better, you know what I mean?
54:41
All you're doing is denting your pans.
54:42
Yeah. Well, Speaking of saute pans, do
54:44
you have a specific a lot of chefs are like no, like the the
54:48
French cast iron saute pans. Yeah, that's what they're
54:51
talking about. Or or do you like the like the
54:53
all clad or made in traditional sloping side satoos?
54:56
I've. Never gotten to cook with a made
54:58
in pan yet. You live in Austin.
55:00
You ever had a maiden pit? Like, so I have one pan I use
55:03
because Tyson gave it to me. I think it was my birthday.
55:06
It was one of the years where I got promoted and he gave me a
55:08
pan. Yeah.
55:09
And it is. It is more of like a sautois.
55:12
That's, you know. Yeah, I know.
55:14
I live in Austin. I haven't cooked in a maiden
55:15
pan, but it has like a copper lining on it.
55:18
And I use that for a lot of stuff in a lid.
55:20
I like using lids, too. Yeah.
55:22
I think lids are very underused. There's a reason why it's
55:24
designed for the lid. Yeah, but part of the reason why
55:27
I haven't cooked in a medium pan yet is because I still, I still
55:30
have all my pans from my original restaurants, right?
55:32
You really. So I still have my cast irons.
55:34
I still have my I have some Auvier and I have some and I
55:39
still have my All clouds and they last forever.
55:40
Yeah. Do you like cast iron sauce?
55:42
I love cast iron sauce. I do like cooking on French
55:45
fries. I don't have one at any of the
55:46
restaurants right now, but I like.
55:48
Cooking on French tops. Yeah, French tops.
55:49
You have the French eyes. I do like cooking on those, man.
55:53
I like cooking on those and, and, and fire.
55:55
But yeah, I mean, for me, I like the cast of iron saute pan, the
56:00
French cast iron saute pans. Actually, I like that for yeah,
56:02
I do too. For service, yeah.
56:04
I use those I, I use those a lot and I sometimes we get a lot of
56:08
pushback from my chefs, so like. A little bit of heavy iron pans
56:11
and I like them, but for me they they keep consistent heat and
56:14
they're easy to clean because when I run a saute line, I don't
56:17
like having a bunch of pans. I just like having like 2 and I
56:19
can clean it up, clean it up. You know what I mean?
56:21
Yeah. Yeah, if you had to list like
56:25
your 4 chefs, that would be on Mount Rushmore for you.
56:28
Like if you had to like, who had the biggest influence on you and
56:31
your career? And it could be people that
56:32
you've met or never met. OK.
56:34
I mean, like for me, I in, in, in terms of people that had
56:37
influenced me quite a bit, right.
56:39
I'll just start with the local chefs that influenced me quite a
56:42
bit. And some of these guys aren't
56:43
around. Some of them still cook.
56:45
Someone cook in New York now. You know, the, the, the, the
56:48
chefs that influenced me the most in Austin from Austin,
56:51
right? I'll give it.
56:52
Of course, Tyson, right. Sean Circle was also big
56:55
influence. Yeah, not a lot of people know
56:58
it, but Uchi hired Sean to teach me how to cook.
57:01
Really. Yeah.
57:02
Because Tyson doesn't cook. He's a sushi chef, right?
57:04
Yeah. And then before those two, I
57:06
actually had two more mentors. 1 was Andrew Bell and one was
57:09
Deacon Mcclung. They both were cooking at Wing.
57:12
I think Deacon is a a chef for the Coke group right now.
57:16
And I think Andrew, I lost touch with him, but he's in Dallas
57:18
now. Yeah.
57:19
I think he had a BBQ restaurant. Those guys are very influential
57:22
to my upbringing here in Austin. Right.
57:25
And then and then during that time, like when Sean was trying
57:29
to open my mind with other chefs, he introduced me to two
57:32
books. 1 was Burgundy Stars. So that's Burgundy Stars and
57:39
White Heat, right? So that's Marco Pierre White and
57:42
Bernard Lasseau. Bernard Lasseau was the chef
57:45
that killed himself because he lost the star.
57:48
Yeah, so I didn't know he had a book, though.
57:50
Yeah. And you said it's called what?
57:51
Burgundy. What?
57:52
Burgundy stars. Burgundy stars because Sean was
57:54
like, hey, I'm going to teach you these two things.
57:57
Read these two books just so you know what the shelf life is
57:59
going to be like. Yeah, right.
58:01
Did you ever read the book The Professional Bernard Lozo?
58:03
But not no, not the person. No, I.
58:05
Haven't read. Yeah, it's good.
58:07
So and then those two was a big influence to me, right.
58:10
And then of course, like for me when it comes to the El Bui era,
58:15
right. So it's Fernand and Albert are
58:19
huge influences. Like Spanish cooking is probably
58:22
how I cook now the most. And of course, I mean, Jorge was
58:25
a huge influence in introducing me to that.
58:27
Jorge Hernandez, right? That works with the MRI group
58:32
now, right. But and then that's sort of how
58:35
I was able to benchmark my cooking when it comes to, I feel
58:39
like it's, it's, it's definitely has a Spanish foundation.
58:41
I do have lines of Japanese and some French in there.
58:47
I mean, of course, like, again, the number, my number one
58:49
favorite book that inspired me of all the time is Michelle
58:51
Brah. Right.
58:53
So he's up there as well. Yeah.
58:55
Yeah, wild. So many shout out to all those
58:58
chefs. Legends.
59:00
Chef, thanks for your time. Where can people find you?
59:04
You could find me and you could find me a top row.
59:07
Top row, yeah. From come and see me.
59:09
A top row, yeah. All right.
59:10
Thanks, chef. Appreciate your time.
59:11
This is fun. We'll do it again.
59:13
Cool. Awesome.
59:13
Thank you. I hope you enjoyed the show.
59:15
If you want to support Chef's PSA, make sure you hit the like
59:18
and subscribe button. If you're listed on Spotify or
59:20
Apple, make sure you leave five stars, nothing less.
59:22
Go to chefspsa.com to get Chef brains.
59:25
Keep listening. If you want early access to
59:27
episodes, you could become a premium member and listen to
59:29
episodes before anyone else on Sub Stack or on Spotify now too.
59:33
We'll see you next week. Hit the porno music.