Latest / Galaxies and Goddesses: A Sci-Fi & Fantasy Bookcast / The Fellowship of the Ring: Long Roads, Dark Powers, Hope
Transcript
- Fellowship of the Ring Andrea: I’m Andrea. Elizabeth: And I'm Elizabeth. Andrea: Join us as we chat about sci-fi and fantasy books and beyond. Elizabeth: Looking for a little escape from reality? So are we. Andrea: Welcome to Galaxies and Goddesses. Elizabeth: On this week's episode, we're talking about Lord of the Rings, The Fellowship of the Ring by J.R.R. Tolkien. Andrea: Specifically, we'll be chatting about the elements that carried over from The Hobbit and how it differed from the movies. Elizabeth: Along with nerding out about how great these books are. Andrea: Let's get started. Andrea: So, you know, there is the book synopsis… Elizabeth: I mean. I feel like most people probably know this story. So there’s a ring, and the Ring is found in The Hobbit, and then the Ring comes back into play and ultimately they have to destroy the Ring. Andrea: Okay. Andrea: I mean that's the gist of it. Elizabeth: Is this a story that anyone actually ever reads the back cover? Andrea: It's a good question. Elizabeth: Right? Andrea: I did not read the back of this book before reading it. Andrea: I've seen the movies. I knew what was in store, but I didn't know exactly where The Fellowship of the Ring would end. Andrea: Reading the back of the book does not tell you where it ends. Elizabeth: No it doesn’t. Elizabeth: I also did not remember where it ended. 'Cause I remember I think where the first movie ends, and that's not where the book ends. The book ends before that. Elizabeth: Getting to the last pages, I was like, “How is he gonna fit in so much more, in just not very many pages?" And then it ends and it was, “Oh, right, right, right. It doesn't go that far.” Andrea: [Chuckles] Elizabeth: But also, I would not have been surprised if he was able to fit in all of those, the events at the end of the first movie, if he was able to fit all of that into the end of the book, because so much can happen so fast. Elizabeth: What’s so fun about them is that they are not only just an incredible story, but they're also page turners. Elizabeth: Andrea what did you think reading for the first time? Andrea: I think you and I might read at different paces for one. 'Cause it was not quite as quick of a page turner for me, but I did enjoy reading it. And I am really glad that we read The Hobbit prior to reading this because there were a lot of elements that get referenced again. You don't have to read The Hobbit, but if you do it adds depth. Andrea: And it's like the next generation going on this quest. You know, The Hobbit is meant for young adults or children, but The Fellowship of the Ring feels like it is definitely intended for adults. Andrea: You have to have a longer attention span, and it is about three times as long as The Hobbit, so it's a longer quest as well. Elizabeth: And there's more depth… Andrea: Yeah. Elizabeth: To what I know will also include the Two Towers and The Return of the King, but you know, so like in the whole trilogy, there's just so much depth in all the ways: the mythology, and background of this world, and the scale too. In The Hobbit, they're going on an adventure through Middle-earth. And there's a lot of things that are similar to their journeys, at least at first, in terms of distance and direction they're going. A lot of things happen in The Hobbit, but you don't spend as much time with all of the things. Andrea: Right. Elizabeth: And so, whereas with The Fellowship of the Ring, there's a lot that happens, but yeah, like these scenes are more sketched out in detail: the languages that are used and the people, the landscapes, the scale of time. The themes: Good versus Evil, and man versus nature, all those things. There's just so much more to it. Andrea: It requires a stronger attention span. Some people might get bored reading about all of the hills, trees, and rocks, compared to a lot of other fantasy novels where we have a much shorter attention span and we can just hop in a portal or, you know, in some of the books we've read recently, hop into a pool of water and you magically are transported. Andrea: There's no magical transportation here. The quest is an epic journey on foot. Elizabeth: That I think was also a big difference between the movies and the books, because even though the movies approach the epic scale, nothing can capture like this epic of scale and the distance that they travel is really under appreciated when you're watching the movies. Elizabeth: The movies are long and there's a lot that happens, but you don't appreciate how much time they spend walking. There are so many days and nights spent, camping outside and making a fire and food that you don't appreciate… Andrea: I didn't mark how many pages it was exactly, but from the point they leave the Shire to when they get to other towns, on the map, it's like a pinky finger distance. Elizabeth: Yeah. Andrea: It's barely anything on the map! Elizabeth: And, both Bilbo and Frodo start their journey from Bag End, and then they have to go all the way across the Shire and, and you know, the Brandywine River and through Bree and the, you know, all the way to the Rivendell and then over or under Earth, somehow and then that's where, well, I suppose in the Misty Mountains is where their journeys diverge. But that is not something that you appreciate in The Hobbit, how much time that takes to get from … Andrea: One place to another. Elizabeth: Yeah. Andrea: That goes back to things that carried over from The Hobbit. They follow a similar path. Andrea: They do stop and Rivendell and they mention the Mirkwood, you know, and so there are elements that harken back to The Hobbit in a fun way. Elizabeth: I did not read The Hobbit before reading the Lord of the Rings first time around. It did make the start of the Lord of the Rings just delightful. Andrea: [Chuckles] Elizabeth: Remembering that Bilbo was gone for so long that his family thought he was dead. They were selling all of his furniture and trying to sell off his house. Elizabeth: To like, you know, deal with the estate and The Fellowship of the Ring starts out with the joint birthday and Bilbo making all these plans to leave and leave it all to Frodo and just be gone. So as he is like making his will, the sort of banter and people are like preparing for this party and the gossip… Andrea: Yes. Elizabeth: And the things that he wrote in his will, not sly at all. Like revenge quips. Andrea: Like backhanded gifts? Elizabeth: Yeah. Andrea: The bookshelf for someone that never returned their books. Elizabeth: Yeah. Elizabeth: Or an empty waste bin for the relative that writes too many letters with unsolicited advice, or the pen and paper to the relative who never writes at all. But then especially, oh man, the Sacksville-Baggins, the number of times where just little quips about the Sacksville-Baggins. Andrea: Yes. Elizabeth: It's so funny. Elizabeth: I didn’t remember that the first time I read it. It's hilarious. Because the Sackville-Baggins were to inherit the house, they were most upset he came back alive. Andrea: And he lived a very long time. Longer than he was supposed to. Elizabeth: Long enough for him to then take in Frodo as the orphan that he was gonna raise, and then leave it all to Frodo, whereas they would've been the ones to get it if he had actually been dead. Andrea: Yes. Elizabeth: It’s funny. Andrea: Well, and none of that's covered in the movies. At least I don't remember that element. If it is, it's just in the background. Elizabeth: I haven't seen the movies in a while either, but all I can really remember is like, as he's giving his speech at the birthday, “I know half of you, half as well as you deserve, and the other half, half as well as I want,” or whatever it is. You know, like it just kind of makes some back, maybe some backhanded compliments in that. Elizabeth: But, but not to the point of the book. Elizabeth: I wish I was counting the number of times that I laughed out loud just reading the first chapter, like I couldn't stop giggling. It's very funny. And, I did not remember that. And I don't feel like you really appreciate that as much if you don't read The Hobbit. Andrea: Yeah. Andrea: Yeah. So I think some of the other things that helped that you read The Hobbit first with understanding where his armor and Sting came from, because those get passed on to Frodo and they were part of his treasure that he brought back, so that has more history to it. Andrea: And I think Gandalf really is the only character that carries over, besides Bilbo. Andrea: You know, the only major character. Would you agree with that? Elizabeth: No, I think Elrond is … Andrea: Was he in the first one too? I guess I didn't realize that. Yes, he is. He's as old as Gandalf and older. Okay. Take that back. Elizabeth: The head of Rivendell. Andrea: So, Gandalf and Elrond and some of the dwarves were mentioned that had been on the first quest as well. Elizabeth: I didn't remember that Gimli was the son of Gloin. I didn’t remember that. That's cool. And then I don't remember if it said in the movies at all, I didn't really realize that, that it was, Balin's Tomb in the mines of Moria and why he was there. Why he and the dwarves were even in the mines of Moria to begin with when he then died. Andrea: Yeah. Elizabeth: He was buried in the doom there, but I didn't remember any of that. Andrea: Yeah. Elizabeth: What surprised you that was different from the movies? Andrea: I was really surprised when they talked about how old Frodo was, ' cause when I watched the movies, Elijah Wood, the actor that plays Frodo, is pretty young and he looks like a young hobbit. I'd say maybe twenties ish. But it starts out at his 33rd birthday and I'm like, oh, that's older than I thought. Andrea: But he doesn't even leave the Shire at 33. He stays in the Shire for like another 20 years and he doesn't leave until he is 50. Elizabeth: Yeah. It's commented that he's close in age to what Bilbo was when he left in The Hobbit. Andrea: Right. Elizabeth: Yeah. The mention of scale again, the scale of time in the Lord of the Rings versus the Hobbit that, you know, there's the birthday and then Bilbo leaves and then Bilbo's gone for yeah, like 15, 20 years or whatever. While Frodo just lives in Bag End. Andrea: Hanging out. Elizabeth: Gandalf visits regularly, but there's still a lot of time between visits and he kind of checks in with Frodo, and then also as he goes out and tries to gather more information about this ring. Elizabeth: There's just a lot about the story that you don't get in the movie. Elizabeth: I remember you asking about The Hobbit, where you were like, “why Bilbo? Like, why was Bilbo chosen to be part of the group?” I actually am quite chuffed with my response at the time. Elizabeth: I didn't really quite remember or know why, but my answer was because I think Gandalf just really respects hobbits. And it's absolutely true that he studies them! He studies hobbit lore amongst the wise, the wizards. It’s like, oh, I, okay, well there you go. Elizabeth: I think he knew of the ring but didn't know Bilbo had the one ring to rule them all. Elizabeth: But then he puts it together. When Bilbo finds it and sees what it can do, then he starts to suspect that it's the one ring and then he has to go out and do all this investigation to figure out that it is the one ring. Andrea: Right. Elizabeth: Then it takes like 20 years to do. He keeps just checking in with Frodo. Andrea: Well, and that's one of the things is that it gives long life. He keeps checking in with Frodo to see if he's aging. He realizes that over 20 years he hasn't aged, similar to how Bilbo didn't age. Elizabeth: And then as he starts to suspect about Gollum, and who Gollum is, and where he came from and how he found the ring, and then realizing that, oh, Gollum is like, who knows how old, like hundreds, thousands, however, whatever timescale is, that he's had this ring and he's still alive. Elizabeth: So yeah, Frodo is a lot older here in the book than in the movie. Andrea: Yes. So that was a big surprise. Andrea: Like, I don't remember the combined birthday party part. I know that there was a party. I remember fireworks and Gandalf is known for the fireworks, and that is a fun part to read in the book as well. You can picture these explosive fun fireworks going off. Elizabeth: In the book it goes on for like a really long time. The number of fireworks described …that would've been so cool to see. I mean, it sounds like it would've taken like hours to see all these fireworks. Andrea: Yes. Elizabeth: All on par with that. Like in the movie, the big dragon one that comes, you know, flying down and swoops around the party. Elizabeth: Let's talk about Tom Bombadil now. Elizabeth: When watching the movies you quickly realized that Tom Bombadil is not included in the movies. Right. But I think at that point I'd read the book, so I didn't necessarily know to like, pay attention to his character really. And reading him the second time, I tried to pay a little bit more attention to that part. His character is important to the overall story, but they don't put it in the movie 'cause his character doesn't help with moving the plot forward. Andrea: Right. Elizabeth: Like getting the ring to Mordor. Yes. just for time you can't put every single word on the page into a film so you can like, understand why they, cut it out. But but yeah, you reading it for the first time, not even knowing that was even a character or even a thing, what did you think about Tom Bombadil? Andrea: I thought it was a little odd. I kept expecting it to be the gingerbread house in the forest. Like, oh, I'm gonna save you from these willow trees, but I'm also going to be evil. But he's not, and he really does just save them, and he kind of shepherds them along and they would've basically died in the forest if he hadn't come along. Elizabeth: Well, at least Merry and Pip would’ve died in the willow tree. Andrea: Weren't they starting to sleep near the water and someone was getting pulled under with the roots? Elizabeth: Oh. Andrea: I thought. The willow tree was singing and they got sleepy. Sam started to fall asleep near the water and like the roots were taking him. And then also the tree, when anyone leaned on the tree, were getting sucked in and Frodo was sort of off on his own. Elizabeth: Oh yeah. Andrea: It was all disarray. They were rescued. That kind of thing happens multiple times in the book. Which kind of leads me to my next question for you. Andrea: If this were to be the only book you read, is there enough action that you'd be like, okay, that was an enjoyable book, like one and done? Andrea: Could you picture this as a standalone novel? Elizabeth: No. Andrea: Okay. Elizabeth: No. It's just getting good. Elizabeth: A lot of great stuff has happened already, but it's only just begun by the end. It can't stand by itself. Elizabeth: If this was a standalone book it wouldn't be as good too. Like this sets up and is like the first third of a really epic story, but by itself, you'd kind of finish it and be like, “well, now what?” Elizabeth: “What about the rest?” Andrea: Mm-hmm. Andrea: That's something else that we can mention, that it's actually the first two of six books published as three novels, but intended to be read as one story. Elizabeth: Each of the published books actually have two books in them. Right? So The Fellowship of the Ring is book one and book two. But also most trilogies, most series, are one whole story. Elizabeth: Right. By sort of trying to argue that it's not really a trilogy because it's just one story. Elizabeth: It's like you're splitting hairs. That’s what most trilogies are. Andrea: Right. Elizabeth: Reading it for the second time of course you're gonna get different things out of it. And since I don't need to really know the overall story, 'cause I remember the overall story and I actually just even before starting to read it again, I almost could picture on the maps the entire journey that they take… Andrea: Wow. Elizabeth: Before I even started it again, because it's so well written and realized it just sticks with you. Elizabeth: And so then you get to focus on some of the other elements of it. Elizabeth: Start with the ring. Elizabeth: One question I kept asking myself… you asked why did Gandalf pick Bilbo? My question was more: why did Bilbo end up with the ring? Not necessarily like why Bilbo was even there to begin with, but why did he get the ring? Thinking back to The Hobbit they're underground in the mountain, chased by goblins. Elizabeth: Side note: Are goblins orcs? They use the term goblin in The Hobbit and they're talking about the evil creatures that live underground, like taking over the underground of the Misty Mountains and in the Lord of the Rings, they use the term orc. So I had to Google that and Google said that they're the same thing. Andrea: Oh really? Andrea: I thought they were different. Elizabeth: Nope. Andrea: I thought goblins and orcs were different races. Elizabeth: I thought that at first too! He's so specific with so many things why would he have two completely different names for the same beast in The Hobbit versus Lord of the Rings? But then I was like, wait a second. Elizabeth: There's not enough time for a whole new race of beasts to take over the underground of the Misty Mountains. We know that there are orcs down there. Where did the goblins go and why are there now orcs instead of goblins? Andrea: Hmm. Elizabeth: So when I Googled it Google told me, goblins and orcs are the same thing. Elizabeth: I was like, that makes more sense. Andrea: That's why the blade still glows in the presence of orcs and goblins. It's the same sword. Elizabeth: Yeah, cause they’re the same thing. Andrea: Yeah. Elizabeth: So that's a weird thing. But remember, they're in the Misty Mountains. They get attacked by the goblins and Bilbo just randomly wakes up in Gollum's zone puts his hand on the ground and the ring is there. Why did that happen? In the Lord of the Rings, you get this sense, or it's, it's not even the sense, it's, it's said blatantly that the Ring wanted to choose Bilbo. Andrea: I thought it just wanted to be found. I don't think it wanted Bilbo. It wanted to be found. It wanted to escape. Andrea: Yeah, I thought it was that the ring wanted to be found and it could tell that somebody was nearby, but it didn't intend a hobbit or Bilbo. It was just anybody besides Gollum. Elizabeth: No, it totally did. I got this sort of level of, sentience to the ring this time around. Then I remember reading it the first time. Elizabeth: “The ring abandoned Gollum only to be picked up by the most unlikely person imaginable, Bilbo from the Shire. Behind that, there was nothing else at work beyond any design of the ring maker. I can put it no plainer than by saying that Bilbo was meant to find the ring and not by its maker, in which case you were also meant to have it.” That's like Gandalf speaking to Frodo before they set off. Elizabeth: How much does the ring know of all this? Towards the end of the book when they're in Lothlórien and he at one point offers the ring to Galadriel, and she almost takes it, but then she says no, and she says to herself that she like passed the test and then she'll like, fade away which is wild. Elizabeth: She said to Frodo, did not Gandalf tell you that the rings give power according to the measure of each possessor. Right, because the draw of the ring to Boromir. He can feel it, 'cause he's a weak man. Elizabeth: He can feel it even when he is not even holding the ring. Elizabeth: It's only when he's in the group, within the fellowship that he still feels the power of the ring acting upon him. Men are weak. And, the people who become the Nazgûl, the ring wraiths were men. And so, they don't have the internal character to withstand the corrosive power of the ring, so they succumb to it. Andrea: Right. Elizabeth: Whereas hobbit folk, right? Gollum was…like they call him hobbit kind, of the race of hobbits. Elizabeth: I mean it is ultimately corrosive corrupting, but it takes a very, long time. This is my question: does the ring know enough? Can it sense the measure of Bilbo? Like here's another hobbit. The ring had reached a dead end with Gollum. Elizabeth: It was just gonna be stuck down in this dark cave forever unless something else happened. So did the ring make it all happen? Did the ring like draw Bilbo to it? Did the ring force him to find it, knowing that he could withstand the power of it to eventually get it back to the Dark Lord, without succumbing to the power itself. Andrea: He could be a carrier or messenger. That's not how I read that. I read it as two opposing forces. In a sense of, yes, the ring is somewhat sentient and could tell that somebody was coming. And so it slipped off of Gollum's finger or somehow escaped to be in the path of whoever was coming along. But other forces, put Bilbo on that path to intercept the ring. There's the malicious ring power hungry force, dark forces that the ring represents, but there's also the hopeful hobbit, opposing force that put Bilbo on the path and put Frodo on the path. So that's how I saw it. Elizabeth: Some sort of God design? Andrea: Yes. Elizabeth: For good? Andrea: A God that's not interfering or not obvious, but somehow set something in motion.That’s how I read that. Elizabeth: Thinking by putting it into the hand of another hobbit, it would eventually lead to the destruction of the ring. Andrea: Yes. Elizabeth: I think it was the ring. I think the ring did it all. Elizabeth: Because if you think about, where does Sauron come from? You, you don't necessarily get like the question going way back to the very beginning. But you know, he was weakened and now is gaining strength. You learn he was weakened when he first lost the ring. And I guess you get that in the movies too, right? Elizabeth: You can remember the ring being cut off he falls but you don't necessarily get a sense of like well where was he? What was he doing this whole time until recently? Andrea: Yeah. Elizabeth: But something you don't grasp in the movies is that Saruman before he becomes evil, wants the ring for himself. He was part of the wizards. And you learn in the book they use all of the powers combined to do something to Mirkwood. Andrea: Yeah. Elizabeth: They use all their powers combined to force evil out of Mirkwood, which is Sauron, 'cause that's where Sauron was this whole time. Elizabeth: And then he's recovering over time. Elizabeth: And then it mentions at some point that the wizards band together and cast evil out of Mirkwood, which I took to mean they cast Sauron out of Dol Guldur. I don’t know if it’s a town or fortress at the south end of Mirkwood. Elizabeth: I wonder if that fits the timeline. Maybe it kind of wakes up the ring. Sauron is out there again. He needs me and I have to find my way to him. Elizabeth: Gxoing back to The Hobbit, you never understand why was Bilbo there. Andrea: Right. Elizabeth: Right he was with his group, they get attacked by the goblins he's knocked unconscious. Then he just wakes up where Gollum is even more the bowels of depths underground of the Misty Mountains. Did the ring do something? Andrea: Hmm. Elizabeth: Maybe the ring could sense, here's another hobbit. I’m gonna make him find me. so the ring somehow draws bilbo to it and then it forces bilbo just set his hand down right where it is and pick it up. Knowing that a hobbit can carry the ring for a long time. From there find a way to get it’s way back. Andrea: It's kind of funny because I think there are so many points within both the Hobbit and the Fellowship of the Ring where Tolkien does a good job of closing up any kind of plot hole. I’m not saying that this is a plot hole necessarily, but just that like there's always an explanation for why things are the way they are, and they might happen to just coincide with the story really well. Andrea: But there is a reason for it and, and this is one case where there might not be a specific reason. I really don't think that it is the ring's doing. I think it's sort of just coincidence or some greater power that is not understood. Elizabeth: No. It’s the Ring. Andrea: But we can agree to disagree. We can agree to disagree. Elizabeth: It's the Ring. Did it all. Elizabeth: Going back to Tom Bombadil. At one point, Tom Bombadil is holding the ring and the ring has no power whatsoever over him. He has no desire to have it. He doesn't want it. It doesn't make him disappear. He can put it on his finger and it doesn't make him disappear. Andrea: Right. Elizabeth: The ring exerts its control and power over everyone else, it's almost like Tom Bombadil can exert power over the ring. He's able to say no to it. He just doesn't care. He doesn't think about it at all. But then also, when they first hand him the ring, it gets bigger in his hand. Finished the book then I was like, wait, I gotta go back to Tom Bombadil and read that part again you could easily skip right over that. Elizabeth: But, it does talk about how the ring can change itself. It can change size get bigger and smaller, which is explains why Gollum lost the ring, 'cause the ring is like, “I need someone new now.” And it just got bigger and fell off his hand. Tom Bombadil, makes the ring get bigger. It's just in his hand and it gets bigger. It's how I interpreted that. So he can exert power over the ring and the ring has no power over him. Elizabeth: And then, you look at like Tom Bombadil in his environment and he's the oldest thing in Middle-earth. Like there is nothing as old as Tom Bombadil. He lives a life present in the moment, in tune with nature and his surroundings. He doesn't have any desire for possessions or wealth or the trappings of life. He just enjoys life as it is. And he sings all the time and he's like the most powerful and the oldest thing in all of Middle-earth the ring has no power over him. Elizabeth: Yeah, it does kind of explain a lot of like the moral underpinnings of Tolkien. Be in tune with nature and not try to have things and not trying to go for like, you know, capitalism and, greed and, just enjoy life and… Andrea: Not try to control others. Elizabeth: Yeah. Andrea: That's where the ring gets a lot of its power is that when people want to control something that greed and that desire for power is what fuels the ring, right? So for example, Boromir wants to become a king. He wants to lead his people. He wants to have power over his people, and he's very drawn to the ring. Whereas Frodo kind of doesn't want to be in control of anyone, maybe himself, but that's about it. Andrea: That's why he's a good ring-bearer. Elizabeth: I think that's why Gandalf also, knowing what he knows about hobbits, that why he respects them so much because they don't necessarily have as much desire as other races of creatures do for greed and power and control and, and all of those things. And so, I think that's why he yeah, like respects him so much. Andrea: So I did mark certain things in my book and the one I just opened to makes me smile. Gandalf says, “My dear Frodo,” exclaimed Gandalf “hobbits really are amazing creatures. As I have said before, you can learn all that there is to know about their ways in a month, and yet after a hundred years, they can still surprise you in a pinch.” Andrea: Yes, Gandalf just really likes and respects hobbits. That's great! Elizabeth: Yeah, he really likes them and he studies them. It makes it sound as if no one else appreciates how interesting they are and he's like the only one that cares as much as he does. And to then study them and be an expert in hobbit lore. Yeah. Andrea: Yeah. Elizabeth: But reading it second time around and knowing that Tom Bombadil is… Andrea: Central figure to the lore of Tolkien. Elizabeth: Yeah, but not necessarily the story, like the ring to destroy it and save the world. You know, it's not necessarily essential to that. Andrea: I think it is interesting because it is a contrast to the evil creatures in this world. It's the opposite of Sauron. In the movies, the Shire ends up being the opposite of Sauron. Andrea: The other thing I wanted to talk about was the overall themes of fellowship. It seemed like the fellowship matched up in pairs. Andrea: There's Frodo and Sam, Aragorn and Gandalf kind of have their moment, and then Merry and Pippin, and eventually Legolas and Gimli. It seems like there's a lot of bonding between pairs in the group. Elizabeth: Yeah. I feel like knowing this is maybe just me remembering the movies, but Legolas and Gimli, like, I really like their relationship, I feel like you don't see as much of that yet. More of that comes in the next two books. Andrea: Yeah, Legolas and Gimli are a fun duo to watch, because they did go from being like, kind of enemies that like no dwarves were even allowed to cross into the elven land to like, oh, we're buds now. Elizabeth: Yeah! And when they convinced him to let him in, he had to go in blindfolded. He did begrudgingly earn their respect by the end. Andrea: Yes. Elizabeth: He helped patch up the bridges that were burned between dwarves and elves. Elizabeth: What would you rate this book, Andrea? Andrea: Oh, you're asking me first. Elizabeth: Totally. Andrea: On like Goodreads, I rated five stars, but I think this is one where I would give it four and a half. Elizabeth: Why the half? Andrea: Minus half because it is a little bit slow. There is a lot of trekking through the wilderness and it just wasn't as enjoyable for me as The Hobbit. Elizabeth: I wonder if I would have given it a similar kind of rating the first time I read it. Andrea: Hmm. Elizabeth: But, I definitely, hands down, give it a five star rating now. I think that could partly be that I know how good this whole story is, so a lot of this book is just kind of setting things up, but I can put it within context of the whole thing. So I found myself just, absolutely tickled reading this book again, because I remember so much of the story and I remember the overall arc of the story. I could enjoy more of the details that give it depth. Elizabeth: It was maybe a bit slow, the first time around. But knowing to bask in some of that because it gives so much context to the whole thing. Having seen the movies as many times as I have and knowing the movies really well, when you know that there's like a big action part coming up and the like buildup to that. Andrea: Mmm. Elizabeth: Whereas maybe at other times it would've felt kind of slower, but it felt like the buildup towards those action. Andrea: Something that's coming. Because I do feel like, it's better than a four star read, but with a five star read, I usually end like, “oh, I loved this book.” I'm kind of in between the two. So it's a four and a half. It was well written and well done, but there were some slow parts that took me longer to read. Andrea: I really did feel like I was part of the fellowship trudging through the, brush and hiding from the black riders. Right? Andrea: A lot happens. A lot happens, but then there's also a lot on foot and a lot of mud and it's very cold and wet. Elizabeth: Windy and… Andrea: Yes! Elizabeth: Dreary, trudging through hills, bogs, forests, mountains, valleys. Elizabeth: So many forests. And I didn't remember how many forests there were. 'Cause there's the forest that they go through before they're even outta the Shire. And that's the first time they meet elves is the wood elves. and they're in that forest for a while. And then there's the old forest when they meet Tom Bombadil. Andrea: The golden trees. Lothlórien? Elizabeth: Oh, of Lothlórien. Andrea: Yes. Elizabeth: There's that forest. then there's Mirkwood and then I know, because I remember the s so spoiler alert, even though it's like, well, whatever you know about 'em too. Elizabeth: 'Cause you've seen the movie the forest of the s they're there's so many forests. Once again, I think that kind of goes into giving it such a sense of depth and scale that you lose in the movie because you're not going to spend days on end trudging through another forest or trudging across open fields. It's gonna kind of skip to the action parts. Andrea: Right. Elizabeth: But it's not like there are pages and pages and pages of the doldrums of just walking each day. Definitely, there are times where it's like, oh, and another like week has gone by and they've walked through more just open fields for a week. Andrea: Right. Elizabeth: Yeah, there is a lot. Andrea: I don't think in the movies they ever talked about like, oh, we had these special boats and now we have to carry the boats down the hill, and we had to carry them two at a time. It's not leaving any plot-holes. It is explaining how everything works and very detailed terms. Andrea: So that's nice in some ways, but it can be a bit slow. Maybe I could let it come up to a five, but right now I, I feel very confident in the four and a half rating. Elizabeth: Ha hah ha! Elizabeth: All right. I’m curious if you'll still say four and a half by the time we finish The Return of the King. Maybe you'll feel differently but then. Andrea: Yes. Elizabeth: Maybe I really am right in my own sense of it's better the second time because I feel it is part of the greater buildup to epic ending. And this I think helps set up the epic-ness of the ending. Andrea: Nice. Elizabeth: Yeah. Andrea: I'm looking forward to reading it. Andrea: Before we wrap up, we have something fun for our listeners. We have created our own Fellowship Match quiz to reveal your inner fantasy archetype. Are you the rising champion, the trailblazer, or the lore keeper find out by taking our quiz linked in our show notes and available in our Instagram bio @galaxiesandgoddesses. Andrea: Share your results and make sure to tag us so we can find out who's part of our podcast listener fellowship. Elizabeth: Unfortunately that concludes this week's episode. We've reached the end of another cosmic journey on galaxies and goddesses. Andrea: Don't worry, the adventure never really ends. There are always more stories to explore and let's be honest, more bookish, tangents for us to go on. Elizabeth: If you loved today's episode make sure to subscribe, leave a review and share the magic! Andrea: Stay tuned for our next episode where we'll be chatting about the man behind the trilogy, J.R.R. Tolkien, and a few other memoirs we've read recently. Elizabeth: And in the meantime, keep your mind fueled by the magic of stories. Andrea: And never stop chasing the worlds waiting for you between the pages. Thanks everyone!