Latest / Pathological Positivity / Discover Your Drive – with Woody Woodward – Episode #691
Transcript
- This is Live On Purpose Radio, episode 691, Discover Your Drive with Woody Woodward. Now is the only time to create and live the life you love. I'm doctor Paul Jenkins, the positivity psychologist. My job is to connect you to powerful positive psychology principles that immediately upgrade your relationships, business, and mental health. Are you ready? Let's jump in. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Live On Purpose Radio. This is doctor Paul the shrink who expands your life with another episode of Live on Purpose Radio. Joining me on the mic today is a long time friend of mine. Long time. We were discussing this just before we went on the mic. Woody, we've known each other for a while. I think we're pushing two decades now, my friend. Easily. Yes. We're pushing two decades. And I remember, Woody, when I first met you, I was in a different office back then. I was in a different office, different town. You came in, had a little visit with me. You made some notes in a notebook, which you probably still have somewhere. And you were you were exploring what drives doctor Paul. Is that fair? That's a 100% fair. Yeah. I have written over 50 journals and interviewing over 2,000 people trying to discover what drives them, what moves them, what makes them take action. Yes. So appropriately today, the title of our episode is Discover Your Drive. And you have done this not only because, I don't know, you've got some weird fascination with it, but also you've been able to use this to really assist people to hone in on, okay, what is it that drives me? And I remember, and you've also introduced me to some really awesome people like Mary Louise Zeller and Gary Lee Price, who have also been guests on this show. And and, they have improved the quality of life for many of our fellow humans. And and, Woody, you're one of those people for me, Because I think your passion about what really drives people has also turned into a way that you have uniquely served our fellow human beings here on the planet for now several decades. Yeah. Here's something that stuck out. And then I'm just gonna shut up and let you talk for a minute because what really stuck out to me is an idea that I hadn't really thought about before I got to know you. And that is what makes you feel important? Now this is different from what's important to you, which is a more common question. And I don't know, it feels a little more like, well, what should I be concerned about? Right. Or what what's really important to me. You flipped a switch for me those... A couple of decades ago now. And some of the work that you've done in the past, including the the movie, I Ology, you've got a book called Your Emotional Fingerprint. Now you're you're working on this new idea of discover your drive. I guess I'm throwing that out, out there on the table and we can wade through whatever makes sense. But would you just take a minute and talk to us about why this is so important to you? What is it that lights you up about this? So that's a fantastic question, doctor Paul. I'm honored to be on the show. So I grew up like most people, but at least I'd say most people are plugging into your platform with a very troubled childhood. It was a run time. I got kicked out of two middle schools, dropped out of high school, you know, learn to rebuild myself. And in that process, I was writing my first book series called Millionaire Dropouts, inspiring stories of the world's greatest failures. And I read over 2,000 biographies, and I'd study all these people who dropped out of elementary school, middle school, and high school. And I'll never forget the date. It was 01/23/2006. My wife said, I really feel inspired that you need to read how to win friends and influence people. Like, babe, I can't read one more book. Like, my brain is bleeding. Like, I'm burned out. She's like, I'll take the kids, go to the library. So go to library. I read the first chapter. Second chapter, first page, left hand side. There's a quote by doctor John Dewey that said, the deepest urge in human nature is a desire to be important and I thought that's not true I don't want to be important I'm gonna go prove this guy wrong he's been dead for fifty six years but I gotta go prove him wrong well in the process of trying to prove him wrong I proved him right Then we all have seven key characteristics that make us feel important. Now when I say feel important, I'm not talking about pride and ego and validation and being more important than someone else. I'm talking about identity. That core inside of you that makes you wanna live, that makes you feel alive, that makes you feel this passion to go for it. That is a feeling of importance. And like you said, there is a huge difference between what is important to you and what makes you feel important. So for example, we live in a first world country. Work and family and religion usually is important to most Americans, but those things may not make them feel important. Doesn't mean you're bad at your faith, doesn't mean you're bad at your job, doesn't mean you're bad as a spouse or a parent. A feeling of importance is that emotion where you feel on top of the world. And I know a lot of people are familiar with personality tests, like Myers Briggs, DISC, color code. Those are all great. They all have their positions in life, but those are personality traits. Meaning, are you an introvert, extrovert? Are you emotional? Are you logical? A drive profile is motivation. What physically motivates you to get up out of bed? What motivates you to have arguments? What motivates you to have love, life, passion? That is a feeling of importance. So that's my whole body of work. I've now... I'm on my forty fifth book right now. Not bad for a dyslexic ADHD kid. High school dropout. But, you know, it's one of the things where you get passionate enough, you'll find the solution. Yes. And you're a great example of that too. It's... I think sometimes we get this misguided notion that we're supposed to be a certain way or that we should want to do this or that. And the discovery that you helped turn me on to as well is that there's this internal sense of purpose. You know, my my whole practice is titled Live on Purpose. Yeah. This is Live on Purpose radio for Pete's sake. Right? So what is that purpose? And feeling important, I think, is inextricably tied to whatever our divine purpose is. Like, the reason we're here on the planet. It is a filter in which we get our purpose met. So... And I love your body of work. I love what you do with your clients and and so forth in helping people find that purpose. Your purpose is fueled by your drive. So drive is an acronym, d r I v e. D is for directors. Directors are motivated by lifestyle. They wanna be free and independent, creative, overcome their challenges, perform. They want to take on the world vivacious, like, very energetically. R is for relators. Relators are driven by community. They're all about that feeling of importance comes from family, friends, spirituality, connection. Just being connected to people gives them that sense of purpose. Mhmm. I is for intellectuals. Intellectuals are motivated by systems. So they are driven by knowledge, learning, standards, organization, nature, health, being just connected in tech, intellectually to the world. V is for validators. They're driven by admiration, giving, and receiving. So they're what I call the four a n frame. If you're stuck at the airport and someone stole all your identification and money, you're gonna call a validator. They'll come get you, won't even ask a question. They're motivated by trust, respect, appreciation. And then e is executives. They are driven by proof. They are the show me the money audience. They wanna be in control. They wanna win. They wanna have, security. They love to work. They're very driven. So that is the d r I v e, and each one is driven for that sense of purpose. So directors are driven for lifestyle, relators are driven for community, intellectuals are driven for systems, validators are driven for admiration, and executives are driven for proof. As as with any way that we measure humans, it... It's not like you're all this or you're all that. But I think what your assessment doesn't... I took your assessment. I came out as a a relator. Oh, nice. And I see elements of all of the other pieces too. But what this assessment does... And by the way, you guys, we're gonna put a link in the show notes for you to take Woody's assessment. It's, it's totally free. You get to go do that and find out, okay, what is it that is coming together and driving me? What is... Is it that drives me? So even though... Yeah. And as a psychologist, I've run into these personality assessments for my whole career. Sure. And and there is nothing that completely captures what a person is. This is a little window. If we were to look inside of you, it's a little window that shows this tends to be what drives you according to the way you answered the assessment. Right? I don't know if you want to address that a little bit, Woody, or what... Where your brain goes down. The real difference between, like I mentioned earlier, a drive profile and a personality profile is the motivation. So you're right. In psychology and everything else, you're never gonna get a silver bullet that covers everything and everybody. In your drive, you're an element of all five of these. However, you have what's called a primary and secondary drive. So I'm what's called the e d. So e is executive. That's my primary. My secondary is director. So think about a car and the gas you put in the car. So the direction that you had, the emotion side of my life is that executive. I wanna win. I wanna be in control. I wanna solve problems. I wanna work. I wanna provide. That's the emotional passion I have for my life. The fuel in which I do that is through my secondary drive. So that's director, being creative, being free in independence, solving my own problems, overcoming challenges. A great way to look at it is, Walt Disney. So Walt Disney was a director relator. So if you look at Disneyland and... Or Disney World, it's it's drawn out like a hub on a wheel. The castle's in the center, and all the spokes go out to the different lands. Tomorrowland, Frontierland, Star Wars Land. You got Main Street USA. That's all lifestyle driven. That's a director. So, emotionally, he built design and created Disneyland based on his primary drive. How he pulled it off was his secondary drive, that fuel. So his best friend and business partner was Roy Disney, his brother. And Roy knew that Walt wanted to build Disneyland. They just got off the success of Snow White. The first time it come to was actually profitable in in Walt wanna throw all the money into Disneyland. And you go back to 1954, that didn't exist. A theme park did not exist the way it does today. So Roy's like, no way. We're doing this. There's no way we're gonna do this. Walt cashes in a $100,000 life insurance policy, and he goes forward. Roy comes to him. He's like, alright, man. You're gonna go all in. Here's what we'll do. It's... It was a Thursday night and... Or Friday. And he said, I'll go to ABC in New York on Monday. You give me some drawings. I'll pitch the idea that we'll film a TV show while you're building Disneyland. But I need some schematics and drawings. No problem. Now as a secondary relator, he taps into his relationships. So if you ever walked down Main Street USA in Disneyland and look up on the buildings, they have names on the windows. They're referred to as the nine old men. The nine men who stayed with Disney for forty to forty five years. Because as a relator, he builds communities. So he goes to Herb Ryan, one of the nine old men. He says, hey, Herb. I got this idea about Disneyland. He's pitching the whole concept, the whole idea. And Herb's like, I love it. I can't wait to see the drawings. He's like, drawings? You You and I gotta do the next seventy two hours. So they stayed up nonstop. And if you've ever been in Disneyland on the building on the right, that picture of, the big map of Disneyland was the painting that they drew together. Monday morning, Roy had it. They flew to, New York and got the money from ABC. So it's the why versus the how. Why you do what you do is your primary drive. How you get it done is the secondary drive. And that's, that's exactly where my brain was going with this, Woody, because it's it's not that, this defines me. It's that this drives me. Yeah. And that's different. It's totally different. Yes. And one thing that once again differs drive from everything else is your drive is neutral by nature. You don't have a good or bad drive. So Adolf Hitler and Mother Teresa both had a drive. How they sought to validate that drive is what we call good or bad, or I prefer the words efficient or inefficient. So if your drive is neutral, kinda think like a gas gauge. Yeah. On the left hand side would be external motivation or external validation. When you look to other people, places, or things to get your drive met, the other side, the right side would be internal validation or internal motivation. Where for you, by you. You validate yourself internally for you, by you. You don't look to anyone else to accept you, recognize you, acknowledge you. You do it from within. That is the true difference in human behavior and human performance. Externally motivated people fail consistently, constantly, all of the time. Internal motivated people can beat unbeatable odds, overcome challenges. If you've ever watched a biography or documentary or someone doing amazing things, like, how did they get the courage and the strength to do it? It was always internal motivation. Always. That's what's truly sustainable. That is the only thing that is sustainable in human behavior is internal motivation. Right. Because the weather around... I think of it as the weather report. You know, what's happening around us, they don't have any control over that. And if we're depending on that external factor, we're in trouble. Yeah. Right? I look at, like, caffeine drinks versus whole foods or say fast food versus whole foods. Yeah. There's nothing wrong with having a a McDonald's Happy Meal every once in a while. But if you keep doing that every day looking for that, you will fail. You'll get obese. You'll lose your heart. You'll die. But if you go after Whole Foods, that's internal motivation. You are in control of what you put in your body. So that's where you get longevity. I like that distinction. I'm remembering something that Wayne Dyer said before he passed away, and it was that, let's see if I can remember how he put it. The goal or his objective was to become independent of the good opinion of others. Yeah. Which is That's a perfect idea. I think in your language is that internal. Right? To become internally driven as opposed to, you know, doing it because I'm getting the approval of others or the, the the stamp of approval, right, that we think we want. In fact, you know, it's it's interesting in this industry, Woody, you know that, the first part of my career was in traditional psychotherapy. This is before I started to tune into what drives me, right? But I remember one of the words that I learned in my early experience in psychology is validation. And it... It's almost like we, as humans, we crave this validation, which I've since learned is we already know that we're right. We just want somebody else to tell us we are. Well, and that's the thing is I look at validation. I think pretty much everything in the world is neutral. It's either have an external or an internal motivation behind it. So take the word validation. If you were internal about... Internally validating yourself, that means the analogy of the airplane. You put the auction mask for yourself first so that you can help other people. If you're externally motivated, you're always chasing other people for that self worth, and you will fail. So validation in itself is neutral. It's the motivation behind it. Am I doing it for myself? Am I doing it for other people to get validation? I... One of my guests here on this show, Woody, was doctor Richard Nisbett. He wrote a book called Thinking, which was endorsed by Malcolm Gladwell of all people. Welcome. Doctor Nisbett said this on the mic here at Live on Purpose Radio. He said, the number one error we make as humans is that we believe what we think. Now to your point... Okay. If... So if whatever we think is neutral anyway, and we tend to believe it, I'd... I'm on board with doctor Nisbett on this. I think the number one error we make is that we believe what we think. But what are we going to do with that? Are we going to be humble or we give up our need to be right in exchange for being open? Are we going to be internally motivated where where we arrive at whatever our chosen belief is? Most people don't see beliefs as a choice, but we arrive at that through humility and openness, Or are we going to seek external validation for that where we can get other people on board and we'll, we'll rally the troops? You know, you look at social media and you see people doing this all the time, trying to, you know, rally their camp around whatever it is that they believe. And maybe I'm getting too far off topic here, but this is just... I can tie this perfectly together. So it was 2017. I had, I think, 77 clients, and you know what that's like where you're just burned out. You're doing ten hours a day. Yeah. You can't ever go use a restroom. You're so exhausted. And I was lamenting to my wife. I'm like, I burned out. I can't do this anymore. And she asked me the most profound question. She goes, is that the truth or is that a belief? I was like, oh, wait a minute. Is there a difference? And so I started going down this rabbit hole on truth versus belief. Truth is universal. Like, right now, for those who can't see, I'm wearing a blue golf t shirt. K? Color three buttons down. I can go on to any continent that has these types of shirts, and they will have a word for this shirt. We will all agree universally, this is a blue short sleeve golf shirt. That is a truth. The belief is, do I look good in it? Did I pay too much too little? Is it on brand off brand? Those are all beliefs. And so if you really look at your life as what is actually true, and I never... You may you may disagree with this. I do not believe in my truth. There's no such thing as my truth in your truth. You have your beliefs. I have my beliefs. There's a universal truth. Gravity is a universal truth. Water freezing at 32 degrees, universal truth will happen on any continent. So really... And I say this jokingly with my clients and stuff. There's only, like, 27 truths. Your height, your age, your weight, your address, your social security number. Those are the things you can track and prove universally. Every single thing else is a belief. You need to challenge your beliefs to see which ones are efficient and inefficient. You are hitting on the very core of what positive psychology is all about. And and in my mind, we've gotta get past the trite fluffy versions of just think positive that you hear from motivational speakers or whatever. Right? It's, in my model, I think you're somewhat familiar with my model, Woody, where it is what it is. And that's right in the center, and it's always neutral. Always. That's what you just said too. I I mean, everything is neutral. Neutral. Absolutely neutral. If I give you $10,000 cash, it is nothing more than ink on paper. It is absolutely neutral. With that $10,000 cash, you can pay for pornography, prostitution, alcoholism, drugs, addiction, whatever you want, or you can pay for feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, taking care of the sick and afflicted. It is neutral. What is your motive behind it? Right. Now the thing that I've noticed... Let's see how this compares with your experience because I love the fact, Woody, that now you and I are, like, older guys Feels good. Right? Than we used to be. Because you can have knowledge and you can have wisdom. And I think wisdom is knowledge combined with experience. Yes. And we've gained a little bit of that just in the time that we've known each other. And I've noticed some shifts in my own thinking because going back to what Doctor. Nisbett said on my mic here, the number one error we make as humans is that we believe what we think. Another way to say that is that we know we're right. And it's not that we think we're right. No. This is a different level. Okay? And because we know we're right, we end up treating each other terribly. And I've... One of my clients told me this too. It was kind of funny, actually. He said, you know, there's two kinds of people on this planet, and I'm interested. I'm a clinical psychologist. Please tell me. Right? He said, there are those who are humble, and there are those who are about to be. Now you're laughing, Woody, because you've got some wisdom nowadays. Yeah. Hold on. Say that again. I'm using this on stage. Say that again. There are two kinds of people. K. There are those who are humble. And there are those who are about to be. Oh, that is so good. That is so wise. Right? Yeah. Because I think life beats us up enough. Either we choose humility, which is not easy to do because we know we're right. Yeah. Or life beats us up enough that we realize, oh, maybe I don't know. Right? I mean, that... Because humility is giving up our need to be right in exchange for being open. And for me, that came through my bankruptcy. Yep. Which happened after I met you. Well, and you may not know this. I had a bankruptcy too after I met you. What? Yep. So meeting each other was bad? Maybe that's why we both went bankrupt. We knew each other. Oh, there you go. Now everybody's like, oh, better stay away from these two guys. No. This was this was an example of what I'm talking about because going through that experience was not fun. It's not something I'm like, oh, pick me, please. It was it was an experience that humbled me to where I was open. And I mentioned Mary Louise Zellert. You're the one who introduced me to Mary Louise Zeller through your movie, I ology. That's when I first got my first glimpse of Mary Louise Zeller. And then I ran into her. I was attending a conference in Lake Tahoe, and she was there. Oh, awesome. And so I got to meet her in person. Right? And, became good friends with her and Ron over the years. And and she was on my mic. And it was just at about the same time I was going through this this bankruptcy, k, when I was interviewing Mary Louise Zeller here at Live on Purpose Radio, and she leaned forward. She knew a little bit about what I was going through. She leaned forward, and she said, Paul, the troops are not coming. And then she paused to let that sink in, and she said, we are the troops. And what did she... Might as well have kicked me. I'm glad she didn't. That would have really hurt. Yeah. But she kick started me into a whole new way of thinking that with this this newfound humility, I was open to some things I had never considered. And looking back on it, I can I can honestly say, okay? That needed to happen for me. That was perfect for me. It asked me during the bankruptcy, and it would have been like, yo, this is terrible. This is awful. I don't know what your experience was with that or what this even triggers for you, but do you care to comment on any of that? Yeah. It's one of those things because I'm... As you know, I'm a very transparent person. I make my living on stage, so I always share all my stories from being dyslexic or, you know, whatever it is. I've never shied away from a personal story. The bankruptcy was really hard on me and for one very specific reason. I grew up with a mother who's my... So my grandfather, she'd always tell me this story. My grandfather lived during the great depression, and he... She always would tell the story that my grandfather was so proud that he never ever had to wait in a breadline. So I heard this story. This is kind of going back to truth versus belief. So I planted this story in my head. And as a, you know, proud American, I pay my bills. I had a seven, eight, you know, 80 or 90 credit score, and I will never, you know, not make my payments, blah blah blah blah blah. Then 2008, 2009 hits. You're talking about the movie ideology. We had put a lot of money in ideology. I leveraged myself. I was gonna do everything to make this movie. All the credit card debt I had, not one thing was for my family. I didn't buy a pair of shoes for my kid. It was all business oriented. So in 2000... February 2009, so that was... Yeah. That's exactly seventeen years ago. That's the last time I've had a credit card. I haven't had a credit card in seventeen years because when my last credit card bounced, I swore myself, oh, never again will I do this. And I didn't file bankruptcy for six more years. I fought and I clawed and I tried everything to just make these payments and try to make it work for six years, trying to pay everybody back. All because of that stupid story about my grandfather, who I barely even knew. And then when I finally filed bankruptcy, which is our legal right to do, we have taxes that cover this, I was able to instantly rebound with a fresh start and start over and do great work in the world and help people, you know. And also, I made more money, which I paid more taxes, and I got, you know, gave back in a different way. Yeah. But it's so interesting how the stories we tell ourselves, which are real... Just pretty much lies most of the time, keep us from making the best decisions that actually serve us. And that word lie is such a harsh word. Right? Yeah. But it comes from that sense of, knowing that we're right. Yeah. You know? And and then our mind... I I teach my clients this all the time. Our brain has two primary jobs, to keep us safe and to prove us right. Yeah. And both of those get in our way all the time. Have you ever read the book... You're welcome. Have you ever read the book The Expectation Effect? No. Sounds like I might, though. Oh my gosh. No. I'll be honest. I've only got into chapter six, and I have reread it to chapter six three separate times. It is by far the most profound book I have ever read on the brain. From brain scans to, the lies that our brains tell us to why... I mean, everyone, if you're into brain psychology and chemistry and why we think the way we think, please read that book. It is the expectation effect. Blew my mind on their case studies, and it just really unraveled a lot of the ways that I think. I have a policy, Woody, that anytime a good friend of mine that I trust and you're one of those who recommends a book, I read it. I buy it. I can exactly read it. Exact same thing. So it's... I wrote it down. It's on my list. Wow. Woody, we could go on forever. We're not going to for this episode, but I am sure grateful for you and that you're in my human treasury. And when we reconnected recently, I think it was at a Bravanil Hall. We were both there. So it's so great to see you. And, great to run into you again. And it's it... It's like... You know, there's a song that... I think it's, Ben Richter has a song about old friends. You can't make old friends. That's a beautiful phrase. You can make new friends, but when you run into old friends, it's like you kinda pick up where you left off. And... And don't you find that at our age... With our age, I don't know what it is. I only want my old friends. I don't mean this naively. Like, I don't have the bandwidth for new friends. But you and I haven't talked in a long time. But the second I saw you, I'm like, whatever he needs. The answer is yes. I'll give him whatever he needs. And literally right before this call, I got a text from a guy I haven't talked to in twelve years. He was Tony McGee. He was in the movie, I ology. It might have been fifteen years now. He said, hey. Woody, I got a new book coming out, and would you give me a testimony? I'm like, absolutely. No no questions asked. I know who you are. Absolutely. Yeah. Yes. That's what I call the human treasury. A great phrase. Love that. Wow. Okay. We're going to wrap up this episode. I have a feeling we're not done yet. And dear listener, as you're tuning in here, I hope that this has triggered something for you where you realize you're not done yet. And I believe that my friend, Woody, here can help you to discover your drive. I I promised that we would put in the the show notes here a link to the assessment that's on your website, and I think it's called discoveryourdrive.com. It's a pretty easy one to remember. And for those of you who take it, please watch the video first. It's only 45. It's all about describing that feeling of importance. You're gonna take 35 questions. You're gonna rank them one through seven. You'll do it within five minutes. Put your name and email in. You'll get an email. A lot of times it does go to the spam folder. So check your spam folder and it will reveal to you what your drive is, your passion, and what you can do with it. Yes. Go connect with Woody. I promise your life is better, like mine is, if you let Woody in. So, appreciate all that you've done, Woody, to create value in my life and for sharing what you did here today on our show. So Honored, Doctor. Paul. You're you're one of those amazing people who's always putting good in the world, and I'm grateful for that. Alright, you guys. You've heard it. It's time to do it. Let's go live on purpose. Did you get what you came for? Give yourself the gift of taking real action on what you realized today. Please share this episode with someone you know would value it, and leave us a rating too. It's time now to live on purpose.