Latest / Mission SONlight CHATT / Mission SONlight Chatt Season 4 Ep. 35 Mike Szynkowski - Pastor

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Mission SONlight Chatt Season 4 Ep. 35 Mike Szynkowski - Pastor · Mission SONlight CHATT

0:09
Welcome to Network 7's Mission Sunlight Chat
0:11
from St. Louis, Missouri, where we are in the
0:15
General Conference Session Exhibit Hall here.
0:19
for the Seventh -day Adventist Church's World
0:22
Business Meeting. Members and guests from all
0:25
over the world are gathered here to share what
0:28
Jesus is doing and how he is working in various
0:31
fields around the globe. And we are blessed to
0:34
have an opportunity to have one of those people
0:36
working in the field of pastoral evangelism,
0:39
and that is my friend Mike Shinkowski. Mike,
0:42
welcome to the program. Yeah, thank you. As you
0:44
look out on the booth to our listeners and viewers,
0:47
I say you... can see a variety of the ministries
0:51
that are working and in the coming months and
0:54
possibly depending on when you're watching this
0:56
in the previous weeks and months we have been
0:58
coming to you from the sessions exhibit hall
1:01
and jordan wagner our engineer for today is over
1:05
there making sure that things roll pretty well.
1:09
So far they have. Jordan, thanks for the work
1:11
that you're doing. I'm Christopher Beeson, your
1:12
host. Mike, you are a pastor in the Michigan
1:16
Conference of Seventh -day Adventists. That's
1:18
right. I have two churches. I'm what they call
1:20
a southerner and you're what they call a northerner.
1:23
Amen. And once upon a time you were a youper.
1:26
Yes. All right. If you're from Michigan or you
1:29
got a connection to Michigan, you know what a
1:30
youper is. If not, maybe we'll talk about that.
1:33
But before we do anything else, Mike, would you
1:34
pray for us? Yes, let's pray. Heavenly Father,
1:38
we want to glorify you. We want you to be front
1:41
and center in everything we do and say. So, Lord,
1:45
just bless our time together. We pray this all
1:47
in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Mike, you're pastoring
1:50
in Michigan, and you're pretty much what we call
1:53
a Michigander. Yes, born and raised. Yeah, and
1:56
other than a little bit of time in school, you've
1:59
pretty much lived in Michigan all your life,
2:01
right? Pretty much, yeah. So, tell us about that
2:04
growing up years in Michigan. I was born in Detroit
2:07
and raised in the suburbs of Detroit. I had two
2:13
parents at home for part of it most of my growing
2:19
up years, but there was much dispute between
2:23
my parents and eventually they got divorced.
2:28
Kind of rough growing up with my parents. I mean,
2:32
just the way they treated each other. I knew
2:36
that that's not what I would want for my home
2:38
and strived to make sure that didn't happen.
2:43
My mom was a Seventh -day Adventist and tried
2:48
to raise us that way as best as she knew how.
2:51
And so she sacrificed to make sure that we went
2:54
to Seventh -day Adventist schools all the way
2:57
through high school. And your dad? Dad at one
3:01
time was baptized. Interesting story, if you
3:04
don't mind me telling it, but it happened years
3:07
after that I found this out. He went to his pastor
3:12
and told him that he was still smoking. The pastor
3:18
gave a shocking answer and said, well, we're
3:22
going to have to do some discipline. When my
3:25
dad told me this, I immediately apologized. I
3:28
said, Dad, I am so sorry. That is wrong. They
3:30
shouldn't have done it. He tried to blow it off,
3:32
but I had to apologize. That was just wrong.
3:36
And from that point on, he never really came
3:39
back to church. And your father, if I remember
3:44
right, was in law enforcement, wasn't he? He
3:46
was. He was. Okay, so you talked about your mom.
3:49
How did that go? How were you able to stay connected
3:52
with the church? Well, as I said, she was the
3:56
one that would bring us to church every week.
3:58
That was a priority, and also we were sent to
4:01
the Sunday Adventist schools. She worked as a
4:07
house cleaner. and just went around to different
4:10
people's houses, some rich people's houses, and
4:12
cleaned them. You know, had a different customer
4:14
every day. And that helped pay for the education.
4:17
But very supportive, very desiring to see us
4:21
grow towards Jesus. That was her desire. I just
4:27
don't know if she knew how to do that either.
4:28
She had a pretty rough upbringing herself. Okay.
4:33
So what happened? You became a young adult. What
4:37
were your decisions like then? Just going back
4:40
just a touch, towards the end of my high school,
4:43
I went to a school that's no longer in existence.
4:45
They closed a little while ago. But as I was
4:49
in a boarding school, I had had this calling
4:53
in my life that I should be a pastor. And I laughed
4:57
at it. I just said, yeah, right, me a pastor.
5:00
What do you mean a calling? I just felt a heavy
5:03
impression from God one time sitting in my room
5:06
that I should be a pastor. And there was no audible
5:08
voice. It just was this heavy impression about
5:11
this. And I just said, no, not me. So I sort
5:15
of laughed it off. And that was it for a while.
5:20
After high school, I went on to, stayed in Adventist
5:26
education there, but I went on to Washington
5:27
Adventist Hospital, the x -ray program, and became
5:32
an x -ray tech. Following that, I got married.
5:37
Lovely lady named? Sharon. Okay. Yep. We had
5:41
been dating since high school, and we decided
5:44
that once I got out of school that we could get
5:46
married, and she went to physical therapy. Okay.
5:51
What happened then when you got married? You
5:53
got out of school. Well, we moved back to her
5:57
hometown, which is in Holly, Michigan. and we
6:01
started serving there. And if I'm right geographically
6:05
there, Hawley is a suburb of Detroit, so you're
6:07
still in the same area. Yes, it is. It's more
6:12
like a bedroom community. It's a little out further,
6:16
but that's probably a good classification. Okay.
6:21
We started serving. We felt the desire, the need
6:25
to really help out in Pathfinders. We've always
6:28
loved Pathfinders. And we had the opportunity
6:32
to go on the first, I think it was still International
6:36
Camperie out in Colorado back in 1985. And it
6:45
was a joy to be with those kids. I never was
6:50
a typical youth leader. And what I mean by that,
6:56
when you look at youth leaders, they're very...
7:00
They're very outgoing and sometimes a little
7:03
bit over the top, and I'm not saying that in
7:04
a bad way, but the kids just love them. They're
7:07
like a magnet. I never was that kind of magnet.
7:10
You were a little more laid back. A little more
7:12
laid back, and I grew my relationship to them
7:16
by just being a friend, and I still have many
7:21
of those friends to this day. Amen. By the way,
7:25
I've got my water bottle. If you want to grab
7:27
water, there's someone down there for you. So
7:29
feel free to just take a swig. We're pretty casual
7:31
here at Mission Sunlight Chat. So when you need
7:33
it, use it. No problem at all. So you were working
7:37
with youth. You eventually ended up not being
7:44
a tech in radiology. That's right. Take us there.
7:48
So somewhere along the way, I just felt like.
7:52
X -ray was just not it. It wasn't a terrible
7:54
field. It was a good field, but I just didn't
7:56
feel like it was what I really wanted to do.
8:00
So I started going back to school, just trying
8:03
to complete something, a degree. I started looking
8:05
into many different areas, and none of them just
8:09
seemed to be working out. And so, yes, I felt.
8:19
that calling again to be a pastor. And it's kind
8:24
of a funny story because when I felt it, I needed
8:29
to include my wife in it. So I sat her down one
8:32
time and I just said, hey, I'm feeling called
8:34
to be a pastor. And she retorted, if I'm not
8:41
called, you're not called. And I said, true.
8:46
I know Sharon. I can hear her saying that. So
8:49
I don't remember having too many conversations.
8:53
The next thing I remember was probably six to
8:57
ten months later, we were actually looking for
8:59
a place to move so I could be in ministry. Okay.
9:03
I first checked out Union College, felt like
9:07
that was a good fit. But unfortunately, with
9:10
the cost of colleges, I needed financial aid,
9:13
and my wife was the financial aid with the kind
9:16
of job she had. There was no way we could get
9:18
any other. And she found no jobs over towards
9:22
Lincoln, Nebraska. So our next choice was Southern.
9:30
And we started looking there, and she had...
9:32
For our listeners and viewers who aren't Adventist
9:35
or have that Adventist connection, Southern Adventist
9:37
University. Which is in the Chattanooga area
9:40
where Mission Sunlight is also based. That's
9:42
right. That's right. And we went down there.
9:46
She actually had five interviews and six job
9:51
offers. Wow. How do you get six? She didn't have
9:56
to interview for one of those. She didn't have
9:57
to interview. And they were all for about $12
10:00
,000 more a year than what she was earning previously.
10:05
So that would help pay for school. I see. All
10:08
right, so you went to Southern Adventist University
10:10
to work on a degree in theology. Yes. And what
10:14
happened next? You got the degree. I did get
10:16
the degree. There was one other thing I just
10:18
want to bring up that kind of secured that calling
10:20
when we were down there. You know, we hear about
10:23
the story of the Israelites going through the
10:25
wilderness and not wearing out shoes. Well, every
10:29
time we needed shoes, we would find them at great
10:32
discounts even for the kids. And I have to tell
10:35
you the one about my wife. She's on her feet
10:37
a lot as a physical therapist. And we were at
10:40
a sporting goods store there in Chattanooga area.
10:44
And I found her again and she had two boxes of
10:46
shoes. And she says, I don't know which one to
10:48
get. So she started describing that this one
10:51
was $35 and this one was $55. And that doesn't
10:54
sound like a lot these days, but back then it
10:55
was. And I said, what one of the shoes is more
11:02
comfortable? She says, the $55. I said, then
11:04
you get the $55 one. She walks up to the counter,
11:07
lays them down, and the lady rings them across
11:11
and says, that'll be $35. My wife says, but it
11:15
says $55. She says, ma 'am, do you want to pay
11:18
$55 or $35? $35. So it just sort of confirmed
11:24
that God was watching over us and just a matter
11:27
of our finances and shoes. Amen. I did, after
11:31
graduation from Southern Adventist University,
11:35
get a calling to pastor in the Michigan Conference,
11:39
and that's where I've been ever since. All right.
11:41
I want to hear more about the pastorate, where
11:42
you've been, what kind of work you're doing,
11:45
and what that looks like after we take a break.
11:47
We'll be back with more Mission Sunlight chat
11:49
after this. Being a media missionary can mean
12:01
many different things. It means the love of a
12:03
home at the heart of the planet. The intrepid
12:07
spirit of a village and the vibe of a great metropolis.
12:10
It means camera one and camera two. It means
12:15
transforming a school, orphanage or hospital.
12:18
It means fire, rain, ice and snow. It means gifts
12:24
by the dollar and by the check. It means donations
12:28
that roll and donations that fly. It's a movement
12:33
on a trail or down a motorway. It means family.
12:39
All of us together. And individually. It's who
12:44
you are or who you are becoming. And to her,
12:48
it's a simple gesture that means hope. Whatever
12:51
it means to you, being a media missionary. means
12:55
more than you might think. Welcome back to Mission
13:06
Sunlight Chat. We are at the General Conference
13:08
Session Exhibit Hall where we are one of the
13:10
exhibitors but we're also recording these podcasts
13:13
for you to listen and watch later as we share
13:17
with different ministries and also we'll be talking
13:19
to business people and church leaders. about
13:22
what they're doing to share Christ in the region
13:26
and the places where they work and live. The
13:29
idea with Mission Sunlight Chat, of course, is
13:31
that we share the stories behind mission and
13:34
ministry. Someone who is involved in the trenches
13:38
of ministry, Mike Shinkowski. Full disclosure,
13:42
Mike shared a little bit in the last segment
13:43
about his attendance at Southern Adventist University.
13:46
You and I were in school together. We've known
13:48
each other for... What has it been? Probably
13:51
close to 30 years. Yeah, I think so. Almost 30
13:54
anyway. And what a blessing. I guess it was the
13:57
summer of 1996 when I came to the Collegedale
14:01
area. So it's 29 years anyway. And we've had
14:06
quite a journey of ups and downs in ministry.
14:09
There's no nice way to put it. It's a challenge
14:14
being in ministry. It's a challenge working with
14:16
people. And sometimes it's not just working with
14:19
the church members. Sometimes it's working with
14:21
entities who do or don't like the church. It's
14:23
working with entities within the church that
14:26
may or may not like your particular ministry
14:28
or your location. Because we're all human. We
14:30
all have our biases and we just make mistakes.
14:33
And I guess that's where I want to start off
14:35
with you. Tell us a little bit about where you
14:38
worked in the Michigan Conference. And then just
14:41
give us a picture of what that ministry life
14:43
has been like. Some of the highs and if you're...
14:46
willing to share some of the lows too? I can
14:48
do that. When I was being interviewed, they asked
14:52
me a question, what do you want people to think
14:56
of you after you leave a particular church district?
14:59
It didn't take me long to answer that. I spouted
15:03
off by just saying, I want them to say, Pastor
15:06
Mike who? In other words, I don't want to be
15:08
the front and center. I don't want them to be
15:10
so dependent upon me that they can't do ministry
15:14
without me. And so that was my philosophy throughout
15:17
ministry that I would make sure that they would
15:19
do that. So as we're hearing the announcement
15:23
overhead in the exhibit hall here, we're going
15:25
to kind of ask you to excuse that as you're listening.
15:27
I don't know how much it'll be picking up in
15:29
the final audio, but you kind of approached John's
15:34
philosophy. He must increase. I must decrease.
15:38
I have a little personal spin on that, Mike.
15:40
You've probably heard me say this before. He
15:42
must increase. I must disappear. Pretty much.
15:46
Yeah. Pretty much. So I went at ministry that
15:49
way. They put me up in kind of a northern Michigan.
15:55
It's considered northern Michigan. Not right
15:58
up at the top of the mitten, but it was northern
16:02
Michigan. And it was fun. I had three churches.
16:07
A little later on, I was involved with a church
16:10
plant. And that was quite exciting to see a new
16:14
church, which is going very well right now. I
16:17
was able to go back and preach there after they
16:20
had a church established. From there, I went
16:25
down to more towards southwest Michigan. And
16:28
you talk about some of the trials. I had some
16:30
trials there. I ran into some at one of my churches.
16:37
The people were involved in. music ministry that
16:42
I felt was starting to border on inappropriate
16:44
for worship. And I spoke up and it didn't go
16:49
well. It was kind of a downer. But that being
16:55
said, even though we talked about the downs in
16:57
ministry, I believe as I look back at it, the
17:01
pros far outweigh the cons. the blessings of
17:06
ministry are still higher than those downs. And
17:09
when we stay focused on Christ and on those where
17:12
he's led us and all the good that he's still
17:14
leading us, they kind of fade in the background.
17:17
The bad fades in the background. Amen. If you
17:19
keep your eyes on Jesus. It's a tough lesson
17:22
to learn. A tough lesson. And I am just now really,
17:27
really learning that. You know, I think as people
17:30
are listening and watching, I think that's an
17:31
important principle that we should share with
17:33
them, that we should remind them of, because
17:35
they're going through their own struggles, and
17:37
they're saying, well, the perfect pastor, he's
17:38
up there, he's preaching, he's got it all together.
17:41
The reality is we have the same struggles. Jordan's
17:44
father is a minister. I have pastored. You're
17:49
a pastor, we can say with great confidence. Jordan,
17:53
wouldn't you agree? Even the pastor's family
17:55
as you grew up. The pastor's family has those
17:59
challenges just like every other ministerial
18:02
family. For sure. It's always a challenge. And
18:05
a lot of times they're under the magnifying glass
18:07
more, so it's seen more. Right. And so you almost
18:10
feel like you have to hide more, too. Would you
18:12
agree with that? For sure. Yeah. So I could share
18:18
a story, but I won't. Let's keep going with your
18:20
story. So how did your family deal with? The
18:25
highs and the lows. It was tough. Because the
18:29
highs could be, you know, people are lifting
18:31
you up and patting you on the back and things
18:33
feel good, but it gets in your head. But those
18:36
aren't the highs of my book because I really
18:40
kept with that philosophy. You know, when people
18:43
say that was a good job or a good sermon, I don't
18:46
take that credit. I always give it to God, and
18:48
I literally mean it that it is God. It wasn't
18:52
me. So that part of it was not one of the highs
18:56
as much as just seeing people turn their life
18:58
to God and seeing that success in ministry. And
19:04
then from that other district, once we left there,
19:08
we were only there like two and a half years.
19:10
We did move to the Upper Peninsula, which is
19:13
nicknamed the UP. And generally the people do
19:17
call the people that live below the Mackinac
19:19
Bridge trolls. There's a war. They want to be
19:24
their own country. But they're great people up
19:26
in the UP, so I do not want to discredit them.
19:29
I love them dearly. You had a great experience
19:31
up there as a youper. I served most of my, you
19:35
know, any long period of time up there, eight
19:37
years. Oh, that was your longest? Yes. Okay.
19:41
Yes. It was the biggest geographically as well,
19:44
two hours across the district. How long have
19:47
you been pastoring, Mike? I believe it's 27 years.
19:50
Okay, so similar to our parallel experience.
19:53
You and I both went back to college. I did not.
19:57
Well, you were a tech. You had a career before.
20:00
And then you went back to college to, or back
20:03
to a college to do a different degree. And I
20:07
had been taking communication work classes. Just
20:11
didn't quite get my associates in radio television,
20:15
but pretty close. And then transferred that over
20:18
to theology, but kind of took some breaks in
20:21
between. So similar path of doing, my point was
20:25
doing it late in life, later in life. We were
20:27
in our, I guess I was in my late 20s. You might
20:29
have been in your early 30s. So where are you
20:35
now? What are you doing now? And what does ministry
20:37
look like for you? Well, it was interesting when
20:40
I went to the UP, that was kind of the big divide
20:42
even of parenting, typical parenting, because
20:46
at that point in time, both the kids were at
20:50
a boarding school. And so it basically left me
20:54
and my wife up there. So that was a little bit
20:55
of a change there. And it didn't go too badly.
20:59
It went pretty well. But we were pretty tight
21:01
with our kids and, you know, called them often,
21:05
talked to each other often. From there, we've
21:09
just moved around, still stayed in northern Michigan
21:12
up until four years ago. We moved down back to
21:16
southwest Michigan, south of Kalamazoo, Michigan,
21:19
and pastor two awesome churches. And I don't
21:24
usually say this, and this is no offense to the
21:27
others, but I believe it's probably been my best
21:29
district in my pastorate. And I attribute it
21:36
to this. well, to God, but I attribute it, the
21:38
people are really good, active people. What a
21:42
blessing. What would you say your highest experience
21:46
in pastoring has been? And maybe it's not a specific
21:50
occasion, but the overall acts. What do you enjoy
21:54
most? What do I enjoy most? I enjoy actually
21:58
seeing them make that decision and taking them
22:00
to baptism. It gives you that high. It's just
22:04
like, thank you, Lord, for being a part of this.
22:06
Amen. Yes. I know that. So when somebody says,
22:11
what do you like? I love baptisms as well. That
22:16
is the ultimate for a pastor. But then when I
22:21
just talk about the everyday work. So I pastored
22:25
for four years in a district and I did 40 funerals.
22:31
Wow. One a month, almost. And I said, you know,
22:37
I liked those moments, and people were like,
22:39
you liked funerals? But funerals are when people
22:42
are humble, quieter, coming together. I know
22:47
that may not be in every family, but in most
22:49
of the circumstances I observed. the people were
22:52
really willing to hear the gospel. And oftentimes
22:55
that's when you met family members who wouldn't
22:57
darken the door for a spiritual service, but
23:00
they would come for their relative's funeral.
23:02
So I took opportunities during those messages
23:04
to just share the gospel. And funerals since
23:09
then, I try to stay with that model because that
23:13
is sometimes the only time some people will hear
23:16
the gospel in their experiences. They may be
23:18
living in... Totally different settings where
23:20
they would never hear Jesus' word, name spoken.
23:24
So I try to take that in a gentle way to encourage
23:27
them, particularly if their loved one was someone
23:30
who followed Christ. We can't know anyone's heart.
23:33
We can't know anyone's heart. We can't be the
23:36
judges. That's what Jesus said. But we can believe
23:39
by the trend that we have seen in a person's
23:41
life that they are likely going to be in the
23:43
kingdom. And so you can say to someone, you know,
23:46
if you want to see them again, the best opportunity
23:48
for that. is for you too to trust Jesus like
23:51
we know they did. So that's something that I
23:54
found that I enjoyed, doing evangelism in a funeral
23:58
setting. It's true. So I did love those. I remember
24:02
one conference president said, what's your favorite
24:04
part? And I would just kind of mess with him.
24:06
I was doing funerals and he couldn't believe
24:07
that I said that. He said, what? But when I explained
24:10
that to him and the opportunities, well. Got
24:12
a point there. That is a great chance. It is.
24:15
One other thing about funerals that I've experienced
24:17
that I don't know whether you did, I got to know
24:20
some of the funeral directors pretty well. And
24:22
it was quite often they would call me and say,
24:26
hey, we got a family that doesn't have a pastor.
24:28
Would you be willing to do the funeral? I said,
24:29
absolutely. And I just took that moment to participate
24:33
and help that family out. And they were very
24:37
grateful that that would happen. So, Mike, you
24:40
and I have been friends, as we said, for about
24:42
29 years. We've known a lot. We've seen a lot.
24:45
We've endured a lot. In our next segment, I want
24:48
to come back and I want to talk about grief and
24:49
loss because I think that's something that you
24:52
and I share that maybe we can talk in a unique
24:54
way that maybe some of my other guests haven't.
24:56
So we'll come back with more Mission Sunlight
24:58
Chat. I do want to remind our viewers and listeners,
25:00
you can connect with us by visiting missionsunlight
25:03
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25:22
This is Mission Sunlight Chat. Back in a moment.
25:32
Our salvation is a day -to -day matter, isn't
25:35
it? The real principle of the Sabbath is reconnecting
25:42
ourselves with the Creator. We must learn to
25:48
abide in Jesus' name. We move ahead with our
25:52
mission objectives, recognizing that we are serving
25:55
together the Most High God. Welcome back to Mission
26:10
Sunlight Chat. We are at the General Conference
26:13
Session Exhibit Hall, which means there are hundreds
26:17
of ministries and church entities and even some
26:21
businesses here. Sherry, right across the aisle
26:24
from us is a gentleman selling worship instruments.
26:27
So you can hear maybe the sound of timpani over
26:30
there, some percussion. Further down, there's
26:34
an accounting software company who's selling
26:36
church software for doing your accounting at
26:40
the church and the school. So lots of variety
26:43
here. We have pastors. We've interviewed chaplains
26:46
and other ministry leaders. Just really exciting
26:49
to have a variety of speakers to come and chat
26:53
with us with Mission Sunlight Chat. One of those
26:56
is Pastor Mike Shinkowski. Mike, you have been
26:59
a good friend of mine for many years. We talk
27:02
regularly on the phone. And in my interviews
27:06
with pastors, I haven't been able to dig as deep
27:09
as we're about to dig because you and I have
27:11
a vulnerability of knowing each other for a long
27:13
time that we're able to do. Grief, loss. As a
27:18
pastor, we deal with that. We talked a little
27:20
bit about funerals. People are hurting today,
27:24
and I would dare say people are hurting more
27:26
today than they were 30 years ago. And I know
27:28
hurt is hurt. but there just seems to be a greater
27:32
level of grief and loss. Would you agree with
27:35
that? I would say so, yes. Yeah. I mean, we think
27:41
of loss and grief primarily dealing with a death,
27:47
but it can happen with a loss of a marriage,
27:51
loss of kids turning their backs on parents and
27:56
vice versa. That's where we find it. And sometimes
28:01
you just don't know what to say to them. So you
28:04
pray with them. You spend time with them. That's
28:06
about all you can really do. Right. You mentioned
28:10
your parents. I can't remember. Are both your
28:14
parents gone? Both of them are gone. My mom passed
28:17
away last year. Okay. And your dad several years
28:20
ago? Yeah, about 10 years ago. Yeah. I just felt
28:23
a connection to your dad because of his law enforcement
28:25
history. It seems like we might have met once,
28:30
but I can't remember. You and I have had some
28:33
pastor friends that we have been close to. You,
28:36
of course, knew my late wife who passed away
28:38
four years ago. In our friendships and in the
28:43
case of my wife, we've experienced loss at different
28:46
levels. Obviously, I, as a spouse, in your case,
28:49
as a good friend. And then we have also seen
28:54
some of our friendships sever. It is difficult
28:58
to lose a friend that you've had for 20 -some
29:02
years over what could be deemed as relatively
29:08
minor differences, but important differences
29:10
for whatever reason at some level. What do you
29:17
say to folks who... Boy, I hate to say it like
29:22
this, but just can't get along anymore, and they
29:23
have to go their separate ways. There's a season
29:26
of life for a friendship, and that season is
29:29
no longer. What do we tell people? You know,
29:34
the situation you're talking about, I still can't
29:38
quite get over. And there's very little to say
29:43
other than I think we still need to love each
29:45
other. And not give up on it. But yes, sometimes
29:49
you do have to walk away because it's very painful
29:52
and hurtful to one side, the other, or both.
29:57
And sometimes you do have to walk away. I think
30:01
what I would like people to walk away from this
30:04
program with is, we kind of touched on it earlier,
30:06
even in a pastor's life, things are not always
30:10
perfect. You know, we're three pastors. We're
30:15
good friends. You still have somewhat of a connection
30:19
with that friend, but I do not, and I mourn that
30:22
loss. And that happened about two years prior
30:26
to losing my wife. And, of course, that was an
30:30
incredibly difficult loss for me. It was a loss
30:34
on different levels. She was a ministry partner.
30:37
We began Network 7 Ministry, Network 7 Media
30:40
Center. Actually, this week... that we're recording
30:44
this in 2025, is the 20th anniversary of us founding
30:51
Network 7. That founding came out of a loss of
30:55
some experiences in ministry where I left full
30:58
-time pastorate. So there's another grief journey
31:01
that's connected there. But I not only lost her
31:04
as a ministry partner, but obviously as a spouse,
31:07
as a lover, as a friend. I lost her as a partner
31:10
in parenting. And so that meant a loss for our
31:14
three biological daughters, but also for our
31:18
bonus children who came along, and not just the
31:23
four that you know of, but we have some others
31:25
that we kind of adopted along the way. So people
31:29
ask me how many children I have. I have two stepchildren
31:32
now, too, so I tell them. Depending on the audience,
31:35
I'll say, well, I've got three daughters, and
31:38
then I've got two other kids, and then I've got
31:39
four other kids, so nine. And then a couple other
31:43
surrogate kids that my first wife, Christy, and
31:46
I had the blessing of being a part of their life.
31:49
And then my second wife, Rebecca, came with the
31:55
two stepkids. And so that rebuilding journey.
31:59
It came at a cost of grief, of grieving what
32:03
I lost and what I wanted, and that is was to
32:06
not be alone and finding a new partner. You walked
32:10
a bit of that journey with me. Probably, I'm
32:13
going to dare say this, Mike, you probably walked
32:15
that journey with me closer than maybe you have
32:17
done with some of your church members. You and
32:20
I had some conversations where I lost it. I broke
32:26
down. I just couldn't. imagine being in that
32:30
place of loss any longer. But it took some time
32:33
and God, as we say, redeemed the time. You did.
32:37
You did. Still in that time, you were traveling
32:40
during that time. Of course, when we lost Christy
32:44
and the message that you sent me, you know, stabbed
32:52
to the heart. I didn't even know what to say
32:57
because I couldn't call you. I couldn't talk
32:59
to you. You were flying. And it was painful for
33:04
me, and I can't imagine painful for you and your
33:07
family. And another thing that kind of happened
33:10
that was unfortunate, and it wasn't a loss, but
33:13
it led up to ministering, was that one of your
33:18
daughters got married shortly after all that
33:23
happened as well. And that was the same, I couldn't
33:28
attend her wedding because my son got married
33:31
that same day. So being that we were out in California,
33:36
I was able to watch the wedding. And just, I
33:41
can't remember what was said, but something was
33:42
said. And I just told my wife, told Sharon, I
33:46
says, we're going to go see Christopher on our
33:48
way back. And we did. We stopped by to see you.
33:52
I think it was Christy's birthday. as well and
33:55
I don't know just I think I think just being
33:59
there for support for each other is probably
34:01
the biggest thing you can do to help with loss
34:04
sometimes you don't even have to say anything
34:05
I think the first time I came over to your place
34:09
afterwards I played guitar for you and I was
34:12
just plucking away and you said thank you I didn't
34:15
do much but you know it's just I didn't say anything
34:17
it's just playing music And it's meaningful.
34:20
Grief is a funny thing. It can hit you out of
34:22
nowhere. I'm looking over at my director, Jordan.
34:25
Jordan's been a close partner in Network 7 in
34:27
this ministry as well with Christy. And he lost
34:31
her too, not just as an employer but as a close
34:34
friend. And so it hit me unexpectedly as you
34:40
shared. I'm able to talk about her and able mostly
34:44
to frame that loss in a strong way. But it does
34:49
hit us, and I think the important thing for us
34:51
to remember and the important thing for us to
34:53
know about other people is that we can't predict
34:58
it. We just have to process by letting the tears
35:01
out, by talking when we feel like talking, and
35:06
understanding that the other person may not feel
35:09
like talking at all. The interesting thing about
35:11
it, the Bible says, Paul's writings say, you
35:13
know, grieve. as with hope. I know I'm misquoting
35:18
that, but grieve with hope. You know, we grieve
35:20
with hope. And there's a difference between the
35:24
promise of seeing our loved ones again as opposed
35:28
to not seeing them. You know, there's a different
35:30
grief with that. And so I always grieve with
35:34
the hope of hopefully seeing a loved one again
35:38
if they were right with Christ, of course. There
35:40
is a hymn that's not necessarily well known.
35:43
We actually used it as the theme for the celebration
35:46
of life for Christy. But I love these words.
35:50
We have this hope that burns within our hearts.
35:56
Well, fire burning, that doesn't necessarily
35:59
sound so pleasant. But what it means is it's
36:03
a fervor. It's a passion in our heart. to share
36:07
and I can say in my loss and dare I say for you
36:11
and for Jordan and for others who have engaged
36:13
in such a powerful loss that passion grows when
36:18
we lose so powerfully because we want to make
36:22
sure that people that are near are ready not
36:26
just the far reaches not just where Jordan and
36:28
I travel around the globe not just a person back
36:32
in your church but the people that are near those
36:34
that have lost we want to make sure that that
36:37
the hope burns in their hearts too. As we close
36:45
out the program, Jordan, I'm just going to turn
36:46
to you. Just any closing thoughts and wrap up
36:50
with prayer for us. We hope you've been blessed
36:53
by the program today too. And we do ask you that
36:55
you will pray for us. And as we close, I know
36:58
Jordan will be praying for you as well. Let's
37:01
have prayer. Heavenly Father, we thank you for
37:04
this opportunity to talk about Mike's story and
37:08
also talking about how to deal with loss and
37:13
grief. We all go through it. We all experience
37:16
it. And we know that this isn't what you had
37:18
planned for this earth or any of us. But we also
37:22
know that we have hope in you. And I pray if
37:25
anybody's listening today that is dealing with
37:28
that grief, they can hold on to you and they
37:30
can know. that they do have hope and they have
37:34
hope for a better future through you. Be with
37:37
us as we leave now and continue to guide each
37:42
one of us in your name. Amen. Mike, thank you
37:45
for being a good friend and for joining our podcast
37:48
and just sharing a bit about your ministry, your
37:50
life and your journey and getting real here at
37:54
the end and just really having that. Personal
37:56
connection. You're a blessing to me. Your family,
37:58
Sharon, is. And, by the way, if I may, congratulate
38:02
you on the recent birth of a grandson. Just,
38:08
what, a week or two old now, huh? Yeah, just
38:10
a little over a week old, yes. And I think you
38:15
have an older granddaughter as well, correct?
38:17
My daughter married a gentleman that had a seven
38:20
-year -old daughter already, and so she's our
38:23
granddaughter. And, of course, we got a brand
38:26
-new grandson. Congratulations. I don't know.
38:28
The one song, How Sweet to Hold a Newborn Baby,
38:31
just makes me tear up because I want hope for
38:34
him as well. What a joy, though. It's a big joy.
38:38
Congratulations. That is our program today. I
38:40
want to remind you, click the share button for
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39:22
more look around the exhibit hall as we see the
39:25
folks sharing and talking about ministry. It
39:28
is a blessing to be here at the General Conference
39:30
Session Exhibit Hall. That is our program for
39:33
the day. This is Mission Sunlight Chat. This
39:37
has been a Beeson Brook production in association
39:40
with Network 7 Media Center. Executive Producers
39:44
Christopher and Rebecca Beeson Roddy Scarborough
39:48
Dawn and Nancy Van Ornum Associate Producers
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Jordan and Ashley Wagner Gary and Dina Bartle
39:55
Wagner Your host today, Christopher Beeson. Director
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of Production and Audio Engineer, Jordan Wagner.
40:01
To suggest guests, topic questions, to pray with
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