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172: Charlie Conerly - NFL · Sports History Network

• 0:47
  This podcast is part of the Sports History Network, your headquarters for the yesteryear of your favorite sport.
• 0:52
  You can Learn more at sportshistorynetwork.com he.
• 0:56
  Was selected in the 13th round of the 1945 NFL Draft by the Washington Redskins, but was blocked from playing by one of the game's all time greats, Sammy Baugh.
• 1:08
  Meanwhile, one of Washington's chief rivals, the New York Giants, were in need of a quarterback.
• 1:14
  So the two engineered a trade and the rest, as they say, is history.
• 1:20
  And next on Sports Forgotten Heroes, we'll take a look back at the career.
• 1:25
  Of that 13th round draft pick, quarterback Charlie Connerly.
• 1:30
  This is Sports Forgotten Heroes, a tribute to the stars who shape the games we love to watch and the games we love to play.
• 1:37
  Stars who provided us with many thrills, but when their time was up, they faded away.
• 1:42
  We'll take a look back at their spectacular careers, their moments of fame, even if it was just for one season or just one game.
• 1:49
  And now here's your host, Warren Rogan.
• 1:53
  Hello and welcome to Sports Forgotten Heroes.
• 1:55
  Episode number 172, Charlie Connerly.
• 1:59
  He was selected in the 13th round of the 1945 NFL Draft by the Washington Redskins.
• 2:05
  The New York Giants were in need of a quarterback.
• 2:08
  Arnie Herbert was at the tail end of his career.
• 2:11
  And the other two quarterbacks on their roster were Paul Governalle and Frank Vilchock.
• 2:18
  Not exactly household names.
• 2:21
  New York really liked what they saw in Connerly and for good reason.
• 2:26
  Over the next 14 seasons, he led the Giants into four championship games, winning in 1956, 47, 7 over the Chicago Bears.
• 2:37
  And of course, Connerly and the Giants came up short in the famous 1958 championship game against the Baltimore Colts at Yankee Stadium.
• 2:48
  In what is now billed as the greatest game ever played.
• 2:53
  The colts won it 23:17 in overtime.
• 2:58
  Connerly just might be one of the most overlooked quarterbacks of of the 1950s.
• 3:05
  He played during the same era as such stars as YA Tittle, Otto Graham and Bart Starr.
• 3:12
  He had a very unique way at looking at games.
• 3:16
  He was the Giants number one quarterback.
• 3:19
  But if you look at his numbers, dive deep into the stats, you will see that he didn't start many of the games he played in.
• 3:27
  In fact, in the 1956 championship season, he didn't start a single game.
• 3:34
  His record was.00.
• 3:37
  Backup quarterback Don Heinrich.
• 3:39
  Well, he was the quarterback of record for every game and he got the credit for each of the Giants wins that year, including the championship game in which he completed just 3 of 6 passes.
• 3:52
  For 21 yards.
• 3:54
  Conner Lee relieved him, was 7 of 10 for 195 yards and two touchdowns.
• 4:01
  You see, Connerly liked to watch the defense he was playing against for a series or two before he stepped on the field.
• 4:09
  And it worked for him.
• 4:11
  Joining me on today's episode of Sports Forgotten Heroes to talk about Conner Lee is Chris Willis from the NFL.
• 4:18
  Chris has been with me on several editions of Sports Forgotten Heroes and he'll share a lot more about Connerly on today's show.
• 4:28
  Before we get there, a few notes.
• 4:29
  Please follow Sports Forgotten Heroes on X@SportsFheroes.
• 4:33
  Look for the Sports Forgotten Heroes page on Facebook and Instagram.
• 4:37
  And wherever it is you are listening or watching, please give Sports Forgotten Heroes a like and hit that subscribe button.
• 4:45
  And as always, I thank you for your support.
• 4:49
  Okay, let's get into today's show with my guest, Chris Willis.
• 4:55
  Chris, welcome back to Sports Torch Forgotten Heroes.
• 4:58
  I am thrilled you accepted my invitation to join once again.
• 5:04
  No, thanks for having me, Warren.
• 5:05
  I appreciate it.
• 5:07
  Always have a good time, you know, talking about some obscure, you know, a football forgotten hero.
• 5:14
  So this is perfect, you know, so I enjoy.
• 5:17
  Yeah.
• 5:17
  So thanks for having me back.
• 5:18
  Yeah, I, I, I, I tease people, I say, well, you know, we're just a bunch of his sports nerds that love to talk about this stuff.
• 5:28
  And I'm happy you're back.
• 5:33
  Got an interesting topic today.
• 5:34
  I think Charlie Connerly, a great quarterback for the New York Giants.
• 5:43
  I'm not so sure that there are many people out there who recall or know about Charlie Connolly.
• 5:51
  So let's start today's show with this for fans who might not know who Charlie Connerly was.
• 6:00
  Who was Charlie Connerly?
• 6:04
  Yeah, I was, yeah, I was excited about to be able to talk about Charlie, you know, because I think he's, he's definitely a name that has gotten, you know, forgotten in time.
• 6:17
  That, that I think definitely Giants fans should know, you know, even the die hards and, and then just general, you know, historians, fans of the game, fans of the history, or even fans of quarterbacks, you know, because Conner
• 6:35
  Lee, you know, is arguably, you know, a Hall of Fame type player of his era.
• 6:43
  And you can make a case like he's in that top three.
• 6:47
  I mean, the Giants just passed their 100 season and you can make a case to say, hey, you know, you have Eli Manning, you have Phil Sims, you have Charlie Connerly, you know, maybe being, you know, the top
• 7:02
  three, you know, so it's a, you know, he's a very interesting guy.
• 7:08
  You know, you know, that played a long time, you know, for the Giants, you know, at a time where that, you know, especially in the 50s and early 60s where the team was very, you know, very popular and
• 7:22
  at its height, you know, including winning a championship in 1956.
• 7:26
  So, so just in general, Connerly is a, is a Giants quarterback that every Giant fan should know and then even NFL fans should, should know who Charlie Collier is.
• 7:39
  Yeah, definitely.
• 7:41
  His career, I think, is often overlooked, as you sort of just said, by quarterbacks like from the same era, right?
• 7:51
  Otto Graham and YA Tittle and a little bit of Bart Starr and a little bit of Johnny Unitis.
• 8:01
  Why do you think history has overlooked Charlie Connerly?
• 8:09
  That's a, it's an interesting question.
• 8:11
  Because he checks a lot of boxes off.
• 8:14
  You know, he, you know, you know, he won, he won a championship, you know, the 1950 Giants.
• 8:21
  He won a league MVP in 1959.
• 8:24
  You know, he made Pro Bowls.
• 8:27
  You know, he was a starter in multiple championship games.
• 8:32
  You know, his, his yards when, when he retired, he was in the top five of all the major categories, including third place and touchdown passes.
• 8:44
  You know, but the completions and yards and attempts, you know, he was, you know, either fourth or fifth, you know, and nowadays, you know, with all the stats or even, you know, the last, you know, 30 years or
• 8:57
  so, he would have been super well known, you would think, and, and I think in 1961, ish, you know, 62 when he retired, he was, you know, I think, a well known quarterback.
• 9:10
  It just all of a sudden he saw, you know, he just, you know, kind of retired and just, you know, either fell off the face of, of the sporting world, you know, it wasn't out there, you know, doing
• 9:23
  TV or that type of stuff, you know, so maybe that's what got him a little, you know, sidetracked and lost.
• 9:29
  But there's a lot of, you know, check marks that, you know, that he checks off, you know, on a, on a football resume.
• 9:37
  When you look at quarterbacks, you know, there's quarterbacks in the hall of Fame that don't have some of the things that, that Charlie has.
• 9:45
  Yeah, that's one of my big questions, which is, and you sort of just answered it.
• 9:53
  Is he considered one of the most underrated quarterbacks of the 1950s?
• 9:59
  I mean, I think he deserves a, a lot more recognition and, you know, definitely underrated.
• 10:08
  What do you think then?
• 10:10
  There's no question, you know, I mean, you know, I think if you look at his era, and then when he retired, like you know, the hall of Fame was just founded in 1963, so he just retired, you know,
• 10:24
  and he's, you know, a top five quarterback in the, in the history of the NFL, you know, which was, you know, for, you know, 43 years, you know, you know, you know, over four decades.
• 10:36
  So, so at that point, you know, especially when the hall was, was opened, he, he was legit, you know, a Hall of Fame quarterback, you know, and, and you get, you can get into a little more details like
• 10:55
  in the late 60s and early 70s, like he was a seven time finalist, you know, for the Pro Football hall of Fame, you know, seven times, you know, and this was like up Till I think 72, 73, you
• 11:10
  know, or 74.
• 11:13
  And then he, you know, he, then he fell off that list.
• 11:17
  So you're like, how can he be a finalist for seven times?
• 11:22
  And then all of a sudden, you know, sort of, you know, fall, fall off the hall of Fame list.
• 11:27
  So, so that tells you what type of, you know, player he was, you know, you know, the, the level of, you know, whether, whether he's a Hall of Famer or not, you know, he was definitely there and you
• 11:42
  know, probably should have gotten in, in that in those first 10 to 15 years and nobody would have caused a ruckus, you know.
• 11:51
  You know, now you might get some, even some voters or the younger voters, like, well, who's Charlie Connor?
• 11:57
  Why, why is he not in the, you know, but if you look at the resume, it's quite impressive and it is a Hall of Fame resume.
• 12:05
  Yeah, I mean he, he led the team into, I think it was four championship games.
• 12:12
  Not every quarterback lead your team into four championship games.
• 12:15
  14 year career.
• 12:17
  I mean, he was one heck of a quarterback.
• 12:21
  And it all began at Ole Miss.
• 12:26
  How important was Charlie at putting Ole Miss on the national map?
• 12:37
  Yeah, he, he's one of those early players, you know, that sort of, you know, started, you know, the legacy of, of, you know, Ole Miss football.
• 12:49
  And, and he was a well rounded player.
• 12:53
  You know, he could do a lot of things.
• 12:55
  Not he could pass, he could run, you know, he played defense, you know, but you know, he was definitely, you know, when you look back at their, their history, you know, he's definitely one of the first couple of
• 13:13
  names that you come up with.
• 13:14
  Like, you know, and, and the key for him, for me, at least when you look at it is, you know, his career at Ole Miss was interrupted by World War II.
• 13:23
  And you know, he played his freshman and sophomore year.
• 13:26
  You know, he was the star Dean Was starting back, you know, sophomore year, you know, they were, they were pretty good.
• 13:34
  But then, you know, with World War II and, and a lot of the, the young men and you could say even young boys in the United States said, hey, I'm going to help the cause.
• 13:44
  And so he leaves, you know, University of Ole Miss, goes to, you know.
• 13:50
  Yeah, he served some time.
• 13:51
  He was out in the South Pacific, you know, became a decorate decorated, you know, soldier and, you know, did his part.
• 14:02
  And then he comes back and he plays his junior and senior year, you know, you know, maybe a little bit wiser, you know, a little bit bigger, you know, you know, your body fills out a little bit more.
• 14:13
  So, you know, that time away and you know, he, but he proved it on the field and showed, you know, what he could do, you know, and that made him ready for the NFL.
• 14:24
  But Ole Miss was, you know, definitely benefited from, from, from Connerly being there as a prized athlete, student athlete.
• 14:35
  Yeah.
• 14:35
  When he, when he started at Ole Miss, if my research is correct, he actually started as a halfback and then he wound up at quarterback.
• 14:44
  Do you know how that happened?
• 14:46
  Yeah, I mean, you gotta look at the time period that he came up, you know, the early 40s were, you still had some single wing formation.
• 14:55
  So, so he probably started more as a tailback in that formation.
• 15:01
  And then when he went away to the war and came back, you know, which was around 1946, then the T formation was already ushered in, you know, with the Chicago Bears, you know, famous 7:3 to nothing game.
• 15:15
  And so he took over as a T4, which was more traditional now, you know, take the snap from center, you're going to drop back and pass, you're going to, you know, do some play action and those, you know,
• 15:26
  maybe a rollout or something like that.
• 15:29
  So, so he got a little bit of both, but definitely, you know, probably started his career as a tailback.
• 15:37
  You alluded to it just before he played his first two years at Ole Miss.
• 15:43
  Then he left for a couple of years to serve in, in, in, in the Army, World War II.
• 15:48
  He was most famously fighting in the battle of Guam.
• 15:53
  And I think when he came back, he could have gone to the NFL, but decided instead to go back to school, back to Ole Miss.
• 16:04
  You know, what was behind that decision?
• 16:07
  Well, I, you know, I think it was more, you know, you know, that he wanted to go back to Mississippi.
• 16:17
  You know, he was a Mississippi boy.
• 16:22
  It wasn't that he was, you know, oh, well, I can't play in the NFL.
• 16:26
  No, he could but he had been away for, for several years, you know.
• 16:33
  You know, almost three, at three to four years.
• 16:35
  So I think he just said, hey, I miss Mississippi.
• 16:39
  I want to be home, you know, I want to play, you know, for old Miss.
• 16:46
  So, so I think that was a big part, part of it, you know, so.
• 16:53
  Well, when he got back there, 1946, he led the Rebels to their first ever SEC title.
• 17:01
  Led the nation in several passing categories.
• 17:04
  That was just a start in, in 47, he, he helped Ole Miss to some really big wins.
• 17:12
  Beat Kentucky, he beat Florida at Florida, LSU at lsu, Tennessee at Tennessee.
• 17:21
  The game was played in Memphis, was fourth in Heisman Trophy balloting.
• 17:27
  How good was he?
• 17:31
  No, he's, you know, I think he showed it later in the NFL, but, you know, he was peaking at this time, you know.
• 17:39
  You know, he was, he was a tad older.
• 17:41
  You know, he's like 24 years old, 25 years old.
• 17:44
  So, so they gave him probably a little bit of an edge, but, but some, some players were coming back from the war too, so, you know, so.
• 17:55
  But no, he was legit, you know, like I said today, he would be.
• 17:59
  Oh, wow, he's going to be a first rounder and you know, you know, go through all the measurements and he's like, okay, you know, know, here's a big guy that can run and pass.
• 18:09
  You know, he's smart, you know, so he's tough.
• 18:13
  And so at that time, and like I said, he was, you know, he was on the radar of some of the NFL teams, you know, at this time, which didn't have as big a scouting department and stuff, but
• 18:28
  they, they knew who Charlie Connolly was and that he could win big games, you know, that he could play at a high level and physically, you know, had all the, the skills too.
• 18:39
  So today, yeah, he'd be like, you know, oh, he's a Camp Miss.
• 18:43
  He's a, he's an Andrew Luck, you know.
• 18:46
  You know, he's a Trevor Lawrence, you know, you know, those guys went number one over number one overall.
• 18:52
  He would have been, he would have been that type of conversation.
• 18:56
  Well, he finished his college career pass it for 2, 3, 3 yards and 26 touchdowns.
• 19:03
  Now, back in the 40s, those were big numbers.
• 19:05
  I mean, obviously not nearly as big as they are today.
• 19:10
  So the Redskins draft him in the 13th round, but they had some guy, other team.
• 19:16
  His name was Sammy B.
• 19:19
  You know, you're not going to supplant Sammy B.
• 19:22
  So they traded him to the Giants.
• 19:26
  How did that trade come about and how Crucial was that trade for New York, which, you know, here they were not the greatest team at that time, you know, and if he had stayed with Washington, he might never
• 19:41
  have played.
• 19:44
  Yeah, that, that was a unique situation, you know, for Charlie and for the two teams, you know, but I, I think the Giants thought of Connerly a little bit higher maybe than Washington.
• 20:03
  And, and like you said, the Redskins still had Sammy Ball on the roster, and he was going to play.
• 20:10
  He was going to, you know, get the majority of the time.
• 20:14
  So.
• 20:16
  And Connolly was a little bit older, so you're like, you know, you know, how many more years are you going to get from him?
• 20:22
  You know, you know, might have been discussed, you know, so.
• 20:26
  Well, they got four, the Giants got 14.
• 20:28
  It's pretty good.
• 20:30
  Yeah, so.
• 20:33
  So, yeah, so it's a unique situation, but I think, you know, it was perfect for, For Charlie and, you know, being able to play, being played early in his career didn't have to sit, you know, behind, you know,
• 20:46
  a star.
• 20:49
  And, And I think he made the best of it.
• 20:51
  And that's really unique in his story is the fact that here's the guy, you know, who, yes, he went and was in the war, but here's a guy who grew up in the Deep south, grew up, you know,
• 21:05
  going to Ole Miss, which didn't have any African American players.
• 21:08
  The SEC really didn't have any, you know, African American.
• 21:14
  And he's going to go to New York City, you know, which is, you know, a hot bed, you know, for, you know, for, for both blacks and white culture.
• 21:23
  And he sort of fits in.
• 21:24
  You know, he, you know, he, he does a tremendous job of.
• 21:28
  Of relating to not, not all of his teammates, but even some of the black players.
• 21:33
  And, you know, here's a guy from, from the Deep South, Mississippi, and he, you know, he, He.
• 21:40
  He sort of made a connection and an understanding of, you know, not only all of his teammates, but, you know, especially with some of, you know, the black players.
• 21:51
  What did the Giants see in him that convinced them that he was the right guy?
• 21:58
  No, I mean, they were, they weren't, you know, the 40s were, you know, just an average period for the Giants.
• 22:08
  You know, they weren't quite at the level some of the others.
• 22:11
  So it's then with the T formation, I, I think they thought that he could fit in with the T formation and what they wanted to do, you know, so they were confident in that.
• 22:25
  You know, I think he exceeded anything they, they thought.
• 22:29
  You know, I, I don't think they were like hey, we're, we're getting the next Sammy Ball and he's going to win.
• 22:35
  No, they thought he could be a good player and he could start a quarterback, and then I think he just exceeded, you know, how good he was.
• 22:46
  General question here for you, Chris, about the NFL as a whole.
• 22:51
  How different was the game when Charlie entered the league compared to the game today?
• 23:01
  No, obviously there's some, Some big differences with, you know, even just the rules and the size of players and things like that.
• 23:11
  I mean, you're, you're more traditional, things that, that you can compare.
• 23:18
  I think the thing that developed that you can somewhat see today is the, you know, his entire career, the 14 years, especially in New York, you saw some of that growth, you know, of what the league would become,
• 23:37
  what you see today.
• 23:38
  You know, so, you know, he comes in, you know, as a rookie, his first couple years, you know, you know, there's no, there's not as.
• 23:46
  As big exposure, you know, TV is not, you know, gripping the league or the nation, you know, you know, in the number of teams and things like that, you know, you know, you know, Madison Avenue, you know, when
• 24:05
  he leaves Pete Roselle just becomes the, you know, the commissioner.
• 24:09
  He moves the offices, the office to New York.
• 24:11
  And then all of a sudden the 60s starts to take off with, you know, a rival league and things like that.
• 24:18
  So I think over his career, more than trying to, you know, maybe compare, okay, what was, what was going on and, you know, maybe on the field is he saw the difference, you know, you know, it's kind of
• 24:31
  like, okay, hey, I.
• 24:31
  I came in here and then, okay, when I left, you know, tv, you know, you had a rival league, you had, you know, two rival leagues.
• 24:42
  So he came in when he started, he had the aafc and on his way out, he had the afl.
• 24:48
  Yeah.
• 24:48
  So, you know, I'm sure he probably saw, hey, look, look what's going on.
• 24:55
  Look how the game has grown.
• 24:58
  And then he, you know, he lives through, you know, you know, the 80s and early 90s, you know, so he probably even sees, you know, later on, wow.
• 25:06
  You know, and he was a part of that growth, especially in New York.
• 25:09
  Like, they weren't win titles, you know, until, you know, you know, once they get to the mid-50s and, you know, especially 56 through 61, you know, like, they're always a title contender and everybody fell in love with, you
• 25:26
  know, the Giants in New York and, you know, and all that stuff.
• 25:29
  So I think that's probably what, you know, was the difference maybe for for him throughout his career.
• 25:36
  During my research for the show, I watched this online show called Giants Chronicles, and Frank Gifford, who is on the receiving end of many of Charlie Connolly passes, he said this, and it was a little confusing.
• 25:53
  I think I know where he was going.
• 25:54
  He said Charlie had a great touch to him.
• 25:59
  With Charlie, you could take your eyes off the ball before it got there, and you could be looking for the defender as a little confusing to me.
• 26:10
  But I think what he meant was that Charlie always put the ball where it was supposed to be.
• 26:18
  Talk about Charlie's accuracy,.
• 26:23
  You know, his.
• 26:23
  Completion percentage for his career was 50.1%.
• 26:28
  How good was that considered back when Charlie played?
• 26:33
  Yeah, I think one of the underrated things with Charlie was, you know, Charlie had a very good touch on the ball, you know, and Gifford has said it, Kyle wrote, was.
• 26:43
  Was another receiver, you know, that was very productive with Charlie.
• 26:47
  And they all said that he threw a soft pass.
• 26:51
  So I think that's where that quote from Gifford comes is, hey, you know, because it was a soft pass, but it was always, you know, accurate, you know, on time, I could take a, you know, quick peek, you
• 27:08
  know, where the defender was, because I knew it wasn't a rocket ball, you know, or wasn't, you know, you know, know, a sort of looping, you know, long, you know, long passes all way through.
• 27:20
  So, you know, especially Gifford.
• 27:22
  Gifford was a, you know, cut pass out of the backfield and as a flanker.
• 27:27
  So he probably was, you know, doing the swing passes and things like that, and he needed to know where those defenders were coming.
• 27:35
  So if the ball took, you know, an extra beat or two, he was fine with the hat because then he could catch it and then.
• 27:41
  But know exactly where the defender is.
• 27:44
  So.
• 27:46
  So I think that's one thing Connerly did very well.
• 27:50
  You know, the.
• 27:51
  The 40s and 50s, even into the 60s, a little bit completion percentage wasn't as dominant it is today or Even the last 20, 25, you know, now, you know, if you don't complete 70% of your passes or 68,
• 28:07
  69, 70, you're, you know, you're.
• 28:10
  You're probably on the bench, you know, so.
• 28:14
  But 50, 55%, you know, it was kind of average.
• 28:20
  I.
• 28:20
  I think that the thing I look at, you know, like that, I think he threw a softball.
• 28:25
  He threw a catchable ball, you know, you know, wasn't difficult or made it difficult for his receivers.
• 28:32
  And I.
• 28:33
  I think when you look at, you know, his statistics, the season that stands out is 1959.
• 28:40
  You know, he's, he's 36 years old.
• 28:45
  He's 36 years old in 1959 and he completes a career high, like 59% of his passes.
• 28:52
  And he throws 14 touchdowns.
• 28:54
  But he only throws four interceptions.
• 28:56
  Yeah.
• 28:56
  You know, and it's just, you know, tremendous, you know, just a tremendous year.
• 29:01
  He wins, you know, league mvp, you know, from the in, you know, ea, you know, the newspapers enterprise a lot and he, you know, the Giants win the east, they play in the championship game.
• 29:12
  He just loses that to United.
• 29:14
  And it's just, you know, like there's not too many quarterbacks, especially in that era, that once they got older, you know, seem to get a little better, you know.
• 29:22
  But that 59th season where he's completing, you know, a career high and he threw nearly 200 pass.
• 29:29
  It wasn't like.
• 29:29
  Yeah, he had a 58.2 percentage completion percentage like you said, 14 touchdowns, four intercepts, four interceptions.
• 29:42
  Rating was 102 points.
• 29:44
  Yes.
• 29:45
  And by the way, I hate to correct you, but according to this, he was 38.
• 29:49
  Oh, he's 38.
• 29:50
  Okay.
• 29:51
  He's even older.
• 29:51
  You know, his age always, you know, seemed to be older than the one.
• 29:55
  Yes, he was.
• 29:56
  So he's 38.
• 29:57
  I mean, that's just, it's just an amazing year.
• 30:00
  You know, he, you know, like I said, he's a, you know, amazing players, a Hall of Fame player.
• 30:05
  And so, and that's the thing.
• 30:07
  And you.
• 30:08
  And he threw some interceptions.
• 30:09
  There's one year he threw like 25 interceptions.
• 30:11
  So, you know, and a lot of those quarterbacks, especially in the 40s and 50s, usually threw more interceptions than touchdowns.
• 30:19
  You know, Bobby Lane, you know, you know, nor Van Brocklin, you know, you know, Johnny and I, you know, when united.
• 30:29
  So it wasn't unusual for a quarterback to do that.
• 30:32
  But for 14 years, if you look at Connerly, he threw more touchdowns than interception in his 14 years.
• 30:38
  Yeah.
• 30:39
  73 touchdowns, 167 interceptions.
• 30:42
  Yes.
• 30:43
  Take away 1953, which was probably about the worst year he had with the Giants.
• 30:49
  Yeah, he had 13 touchdowns and a league leading 25 interceptions.
• 30:55
  So take that away.
• 30:56
  He had a lot more.
• 30:58
  Yes, yes.
• 30:59
  And he did the same thing in this postseason games.
• 31:02
  I think he threw four touchdowns and four interceptions in the postseason.
• 31:05
  You know, so, so even the, the couple championship games he lost, it wasn't like he was, oh, wow, he threw four interceptions and you know, and, and they, they got beat.
• 31:14
  No, you know, so, so he's very accurate.
• 31:19
  And yeah, and Gifford's right on he did throw an easy, catchable soft pass.
• 31:27
  So would you say with the job, I mean, he earned the trust of.
• 31:31
  Of his teammates really quickly.
• 31:34
  I mean, his first year, 1948, he throws for 22 touchdowns, 13 interceptions.
• 31:43
  So he's.
• 31:44
  He's establishing himself pretty quickly.
• 31:46
  Was he known, would you say, more for his arm, his toughness, his intelligence, leadership overall, what do you think Charlie was.
• 31:56
  Was known for?
• 31:59
  I would.
• 32:00
  I think I'd first start with his leadership, you know, and his ability for the guy.
• 32:07
  Now, he wasn't a raw, raw guy.
• 32:09
  He wasn't Bobby Lane and, you know, who kick in the butt and give you a fiery speech in the huddle or something.
• 32:16
  So he wasn't ra.
• 32:17
  But.
• 32:19
  And I.
• 32:19
  And a lot of the guys that fought more war to, you know, sort of had that type of mentality.
• 32:25
  But I think his leadership comes from, like I mentioned a little bit earlier, like, here's a guy who came from the Deep south, you know, in Mississippi.
• 32:36
  He came to New York, I mean, his first year, you know, he befriends, you know, Emin Tenelle.
• 32:42
  I mean, Emel, you know, walked off the street and asked for, you know, a tryout with the Giants, and he got it and he made the team, you know.
• 32:52
  You know, and he befriended him.
• 32:55
  I mean, like, I think it would have took, you know, most guys from Mississippi, you know, a couple years to maybe, you know, befriend, you know, a black player.
• 33:05
  And, you know, he did it in New York City, you know, the city that never sleeps.
• 33:10
  So his leadership, you know, I think, was second to none.
• 33:16
  I mean, from.
• 33:17
  From where he grew up, like I said, where he was on that team that.
• 33:22
  That eventually won a championship, like, and the way he treated teammates, the way they respected him, I, I think went.
• 33:33
  And I think that's why they were successful.
• 33:34
  I think that's why, like you said, they went to four championship games, they won one, and, you know, he, you know, puts up whole fame stats is because the teammates sort of rallied around him, you know, and.
• 33:49
  And he also had no ego.
• 33:52
  You know, I mean, here's a guy.
• 33:54
  I think a few teams did this, but here's a guy that didn't start hardly any NFL game.
• 34:01
  You know, the guy played 14 years.
• 34:03
  He rarely started because he wanted to see.
• 34:06
  I wanna.
• 34:07
  I wanna get to that.
• 34:08
  Yeah, because that's interesting thing.
• 34:13
  I do want to talk about that leadership.
• 34:15
  I bet you some of that leadership also came from his time in the military.
• 34:19
  Oh, absolutely.
• 34:20
  You know, like, you know, you sort of, you know, become A leader.
• 34:27
  And, you know, like I said, even if it's, you know, through just a few words or your actions, you know, and I.
• 34:33
  And that kind of rubbed on and a lot of that were some of those NFL players in the war, you know, came back and were able to use that to lead men because, you know, you know, even though
• 34:46
  you might have been 25, 26, like, yeah, it's.
• 34:49
  It still was very hard.
• 34:50
  Hey, I.
• 34:51
  I was in a war where I'm shooting at people that now somebody's giving me directions and, you know, you know, trying to tell me what to do, you know.
• 35:00
  You know, Paul Brown had that with his players, you know, Buddy Parker with his players, like the coaches in the end.
• 35:07
  But a lot of these players came back and say, you know what?
• 35:10
  You know, it's better than getting shot at.
• 35:13
  I'll play football, but you don't have to tell me twice what to do or, you know, what play you want to run, or the guys like, hey, I want to.
• 35:23
  You know, I want to ride with.
• 35:25
  With Connerly or I want to ride with Autogram just because of that experience that they had.
• 35:31
  Yeah, we'll get to.
• 35:33
  To this.
• 35:34
  It's so interesting to me about how many games he started or.
• 35:40
  Or didn't start versus how many he actually did start.
• 35:44
  We'll get to that in a moment.
• 35:46
  It really didn't take long for Charlie to establish himself with the Giants.
• 35:51
  The year before he got there, they were.
• 35:53
  They were 2, 8 and 2.
• 35:55
  He stepped in in 48, and they went 4 and 8, then 6 and 6.
• 36:00
  And then in 1950, the Giants were 10 and 2 and won the East.
• 36:07
  Outside of that blip in 1953, when they went 3 and 9, they were a winning team.
• 36:14
  With Charlie Connolly, a quarterback, did he possess qualities that statistics just don't measure?
• 36:27
  Yeah, I think you can say that.
• 36:28
  You know, especially the time period he played in.
• 36:34
  You know, if you look at him, you know, obviously he's not going to have huge, you know, passing yards and, you know, touch.
• 36:40
  Although the time he retired, he did have, you know, pretty good numbers of those categories.
• 36:48
  You know, now you look at him, they pale and compare that.
• 36:51
  But sure, I think if you watch them play, if you watch the film, I mean, he's.
• 36:56
  He's the type of guy like, oh, yeah, I would want him starting for my team, you know, you know, in the early 50s, and.
• 37:05
  And that's the other thing.
• 37:06
  In the 50s, there was a lot of really good quarterbacks and.
• 37:12
  And they all won championships and, you know, Outside of a token.
• 37:17
  Tobin wrote.
• 37:18
  Tobin wrote, won the 57 title with the Lions, but Bobby Lane broke his leg late in the year and he just happened that the team was a championship team.
• 37:28
  They beat the Browns and he didn't have to do much.
• 37:31
  So.
• 37:31
  But outside that, every single quarterback in the 50s that won championships is in the hall of Fame except for him, you know, you know, Van Brocklin, Waterfield, Graham Lane, Unitis and Conner Lee won in 1956.
• 37:44
  He probably should have won in 58.
• 37:46
  But you know, obviously the, the famous overtime game, I mean, Yanias is one of the top two or three of all time, you know, quarterbacks, and he just couldn't get over the top there to win a second or
• 37:59
  a third, you know, championship.
• 38:02
  So.
• 38:03
  So I think if you watch him play, if you watch the game, you know, some of the game films, he looks like a Hall of Fame quarterback, you know, when you watch him.
• 38:12
  You know, I recently did a podcast and I had a couple other guys on that also host sports history oriented podcasts and I called it the Sports Tavern.
• 38:24
  I'm going to do it a couple times a year.
• 38:26
  And one of the things we do is we debate whether or not somebody deserves or doesn't deserve to be in the hall of Fame and who we think should be in the hall of Fame that isn't.
• 38:36
  Charlie Connolly is going to be my next guy because this is deserves to be in the Hall.
• 38:42
  In 1950, he helped lead the Giants to the playoffs, but they Lost to Cleveland 10 to 3.
• 38:50
  1956, his second appearance in the postseason, he led the giants to the Nat to the NFL championship game against Chicago.
• 39:01
  Now I think the 56 giants are considered to be one of the greatest teams in franchise history.
• 39:12
  And by the way, 56 was really cool.
• 39:15
  It was their first year playing at Yankee Stadium and 56 was also the Yankees winning the World Series and Don Larson pitching a perfect game.
• 39:25
  What an incredible couple of months at Yankee Stadium.
• 39:28
  That's coming from a Mets fan.
• 39:32
  But you know, it was also the first year of the national TV contract.
• 39:38
  What made that 1956 New York Giants football team so special,.
• 39:48
  First and foremost, I think is it was well organized from, from the front office first, you know, they had a lot of stability with the Mara family.
• 39:58
  And I think probably the most important thing is they were really super well built.
• 40:05
  You know, they were coming along in the 50s, but behind like Wellington Mayor was huge on the scouting part and getting the right players, but they loaded up a really good team on both sides of the ball.
• 40:19
  You know, like when you look at their starting, you know, defense and their starting offense, you know, there was a lot of really good talent, you know, on both sides.
• 40:30
  So I think that helped them.
• 40:33
  Like said they were very close because it even went into the 60s, you know, even when Connor retired, they were in the championship game in 61, 62 and 63, you know, so he played in four postseasons.
• 40:48
  Well, they played three more, you know, 61, 62, 63, you know, when they made the trade for Y title.
• 40:55
  So that roster was, was stacked, you know, for almost a decade, you know, so, so I think that's was a big, the biggest positive for them is, you know, they weren't just, oh, wow, we have a great quarterback,
• 41:12
  but not much else, or we have a great defense, but, you know, we don't, you know, we don't have the franchise quarterback or, you know, or they were flashed in the pan.
• 41:22
  They weren't, they weren't a flash in the pan.
• 41:24
  You know, they were not one year wonders, you know, you know, like the 85 bears or, you know, stuff like that.
• 41:33
  So, so I, I think that was, that was their major sort of emphasis was they built the roster to compete for a championship, you know, for at least a decade.
• 41:48
  And, and that's what, that's what drove them, you know, in my, in my mind, yeah.
• 41:52
  56 was the beginning of a, of a glorious time for, for the New York Giants.
• 41:58
  Now they whipped the Bears in that game 47 to 7.
• 42:02
  Chicago is nine two and one with Patty Driscoll at the helm.
• 42:05
  And Giants went 83 and one under Jim Lee Howell in the championship game.
• 42:11
  Charlie was 7 of 10 for a.
• 42:13
  Imagine 7 of 10 for 195 yards, two touchdowns.
• 42:19
  Big play was a 67 yarder to Gifford.
• 42:22
  He also connected with Gifford and Kyle wrote for touchdowns in that game.
• 42:29
  But that game had another, another aspect to it.
• 42:33
  It was the second time the Giants, I guess it was another Sneakers game.
• 42:40
  What is, I know what, tell us about that.
• 42:43
  It was the Sneakers game too.
• 42:46
  Yeah, it was obviously, if you know, a little history, you know, 1934 was the first one.
• 42:54
  The, the Giants switched into sneakers in the second half and then they rolled over the Bears.
• 43:00
  Well, this time, you know, they didn't have to switch it out.
• 43:03
  They knew, hey, the field's going to be frozen.
• 43:06
  We're going to wear the Chuck Taylor sneakers.
• 43:09
  And you see the footage, the footage is, you know, they're wearing Chuck Taylor sneakers.
• 43:13
  And the Bears, you know, once again, this time they didn't have a chance from the get go because the Giants dominated pretty much the entire game.
• 43:21
  You know, you would think the Bears.
• 43:23
  Would have learned a lesson from 34 at that point.
• 43:26
  Yeah, so, yeah, they jumped on the Bears, you know, you know, kind of early and rode that momentum pretty much the whole game.
• 43:34
  And, and, and Connerly was just, you know, workhorse.
• 43:38
  You know, he did what he had to do.
• 43:40
  And then.
• 43:41
  Because the defense was really good.
• 43:43
  I mean, yeah, you know, those New York fans chanting defense, you know, most, most of the season.
• 43:49
  And, and during the game.
• 43:50
  So.
• 43:51
  So he just rode that and didn't make any mistakes, like, say he went 7 to 10, you know, 190 yards is a lot of yards just for seven completions and he threw a couple touchdowns and, you know, was
• 44:02
  able to, to enjoy that.
• 44:04
  And I think Gifford said that was one of his favorite moments as a Giant was seeing Charlie Connerly's joy after that game.
• 44:14
  You know, he, he'd been around a while.
• 44:16
  He'd been with the Giants a decent amount of years.
• 44:18
  You know, like you said, in 53, they were terrible, you know, and now three, you know, and Charlie, you know, was as stoic as any player, you know, maybe to play the position.
• 44:30
  Like, he did not show a lot of emotion.
• 44:33
  So for him to show joy, you know, after that game and in the locker room, you know, I think that went a long way with some of the teammates to say, look, you know, you deserved it.
• 44:43
  You were our leader, you know, especially in 56.
• 44:46
  And so that's, that's the high point.
• 44:50
  Well, let's now talk about games started versus coming in off the bench.
• 44:55
  His stats for 1956, he was 90 of 174 for 1143 yards, 10 touchdowns, and 4 interceptions.
• 45:05
  What I find interesting is that according to football reference, it was the only year of his career that he did not start a single game.
• 45:17
  So his record for the year was 0 and 0 and he did not start the championship game either.
• 45:27
  Don Heinrich was a starter for all of these games.
• 45:31
  So Heinrich was 8, 3, 1 and gets credit for the win in the 56 championship game.
• 45:38
  And, you know, 37 for 88, 369 yards.
• 45:42
  He threw forth five touchdowns, five interceptions.
• 45:46
  How did that work?
• 45:48
  Why was Heinrich the starter and Connerly wasn't?
• 45:53
  What was going on there?
• 45:56
  I think there was a preference for Connerly, you know, and, and the coaches seemed to be okay with it.
• 46:03
  Connerly wanted to see the, the defense first, you know, you know, just from.
• 46:14
  Even though it was from the sidelines, he wanted to see, you know, what the defense was doing and the Don Heinrich sort of experiment and it would change, you know, from game to game, you know, it wasn't, it
• 46:29
  wasn't a set thing.
• 46:30
  So there might be times where Heinrich would play one series and then, hey, you know what, I'm ready.
• 46:36
  You know, and Charlie would, would be ready.
• 46:38
  Sometimes it would be two, you know, maybe, maybe go three.
• 46:41
  You know, if he was up to Charlie, you, once he felt comfortable, you know, and then he would do that.
• 46:50
  I, I believe if I'm correct, I think in the 58 championship game against the Colts at Yankee Stadium, he only sat for one series and then he was ready to go, you know.
• 47:00
  You know.
• 47:01
  You know, very early in that game he, he didn't, he didn't need to sit there and watch, you know, so I, and that was mostly Connerly wanting to do that, you know, to, to, to be a, a better
• 47:17
  player, you know, like he didn't have an ego.
• 47:19
  He didn't say, you know what, I need to start, I'm the starter, you know.
• 47:25
  You know, and have that type of mentality.
• 47:28
  No, he didn't.
• 47:29
  You know, he, he was fine with that and he thought it, and obviously they had some success with it, you know, that he didn't have to start.
• 47:39
  He didn't have to, you know, but he, he usually came in when he was ready and he, in the majority of time, maybe nine, he finished the game and that's, that was probably more important than who started, right?
• 47:51
  Yeah, he started.
• 47:53
  Of the 161 games he played, he started 105.
• 47:57
  So he was on the bench to watch the start of the game a lot of times to evaluate the defense.
• 48:03
  And in the playoffs, six postseason, six, six games started, two of them.
• 48:10
  He was also the quarterback in the greatest game ever played, as they call it, the 23:17 overtime loss to the Baltimore Colts in the championship at Yankee Stadium.
• 48:23
  He wasn't awful.
• 48:24
  I mean 10 of 14187 yards and a touchdown for the year.
• 48:31
  88 of 184 for 1199 yards, 10 touchdowns and nine interceptions.
• 48:38
  Obviously a heart breaking loss.
• 48:43
  Tell us about Charlie and that 1958 game.
• 48:48
  Yeah, he, you know, yeah, he played his heart out that game.
• 48:52
  Like I said, Heinrich, you know, didn't play that much, you know, so.
• 49:00
  The.
• 49:00
  Thing that hurt and they hurt both teams from was several turnovers on both sides of the ball, you know.
• 49:06
  You know, so, and, and that kind of slowed the Giants down, you know, a little bit, you know, with, with Some turnovers and.
• 49:17
  But no, he, he played his heart out.
• 49:20
  I think at the time, as you see it in the fourth quarter, you know, the Giants had the lead, you know, you know, it was just three points and he just happened to run in, you know, to, you
• 49:32
  know, you know, you know, either number one, number two, the greatest quarterbacks of all time and Johnny Unitis and you know, you know, and you see that, you know, guys who are even the greatest of the greats, you
• 49:46
  know, they're going to have their moments, you know, you know, whether it's Joe Montana, you know, with the catch, you know, you know, Tom Brady and that, you know, first super bowl that nobody thought they could win, you
• 49:59
  know, and John Madden telling Tom that the Patriots should go to overtime and then all of a sudden, no, he leads him to, you know, like there are moments, you know, like that in the United States actually happened
• 50:09
  to do it against Connerly, you know, I mean they had a three point lead late with this great defense, but you nice found a way to tie the game then in overtime, you know, after you, the Giants, you
• 50:22
  know, had to punt.
• 50:23
  He leads him to the touchdown, you know, so yeah, it wasn't like, you know, he, he, you know, you know, was the reason they lost or the, or you know, that, you know, he didn't play very well.
• 50:37
  No, he, he did play well.
• 50:39
  He played well in the majority of those playoff games and like you said, you can only add, like I said, that he had the lead, you know, with under two minutes and they just couldn't, they just couldn't finish,
• 50:51
  you know, and they got beat by, like I said, they didn't get beat by slop or they didn't get beat by some crazy, you know, some, some goofy play, you know, but they got beat by Johnny Unitis.
• 51:03
  Does anybody ever talk about the fact that the Giants had to play the Browns in a playoff game to make it to the championship?
• 51:13
  They wanted 10 to nothing.
• 51:15
  Connerly was decent, 7 of 11 for 75 yards.
• 51:19
  How tough was Cleveland?
• 51:22
  And has anybody ever talked about the fact that again the Giants had a play against Cleveland.
• 51:27
  Cleveland.
• 51:27
  While Baltimore was able to sit home and, and, and prepare more, you know, not take a physical beating that week.
• 51:37
  Does anybody ever say that that might have contributed to how the Giants played that game?
• 51:46
  Maybe a little, you know, I, I think, you know, most teams, like I said, maybe with a little bit of the, of the turnovers, you know, in the, in the championship game, you know, but yeah, that game, I
• 52:04
  mean the Browns were always tough, you know, especially in 57, 58, you know, because of Jim Brown, you know, so.
• 52:16
  So.
• 52:16
  So maybe, yeah, maybe there was a little bit of.
• 52:19
  Of wear and tear, you know, because, you know, Jimmy's running the ball, you know, 25 times in the game, and, you know, he's running hard, you know, and.
• 52:28
  But the Giants found a way to stop him, you know, so.
• 52:32
  Nothing.
• 52:32
  Yeah, so, you know, so maybe a little bit.
• 52:39
  But like I mentioned, like I said, the.
• 52:40
  The Giants did have the lead with under two minutes ago in the championship game, you know, even after all what they've gone through over those last couple of weeks to get to there.
• 52:52
  You know, one of the fascinating parts of Charlie's career is that Vince Lombardi was his offensive coordinator, and at the same time, Tom Landry ran the defense, you know, two of the greatest coaches of all time on the
• 53:08
  staff.
• 53:08
  What was that dynamic like?
• 53:11
  Yeah, I mean, who.
• 53:13
  Who would have thought that.
• 53:14
  Yeah, you'd have Landry and Lombardi on the same staff, and, I mean, they were polar opposites.
• 53:20
  So, you know, I mean, Tom Landry was from Texas, you know, you know, straight lace, you know, low key, you know, didn't really want to, you know, raise his voice, you know, cerebral, while Lombardi was from New York,
• 53:38
  you know, you know, both of them religious, but he's from New York, little loud, you know, you want to be heard and wants to be seen and, you know, you know, but both had pride in their work, you
• 53:54
  know, and.
• 53:55
  And Jim Lee Howe, you know, knew what, you know, which button.
• 53:59
  Buttons to push to get the best out of them.
• 54:01
  And, you know, that just showed, just like I mentioned earlier, like, the.
• 54:06
  The top.
• 54:07
  From the front office to the coaches to the.
• 54:10
  To the sort of roster was just top notch.
• 54:14
  You know, you look at, like, okay, you know, obviously they lose Lombardi in 59, they lose Landry, you know, in 60.
• 54:23
  So.
• 54:25
  And obviously, those teams went on to have great success, so.
• 54:30
  But it just shows you what the Marrows were building, you know, you know, the way they judge talent, you know, on the roster, ending coaches, because you got to think, once those guys left, once Jim Lee Hall, I
• 54:42
  mean, Ali Sherman became the offensive coordinator, he did well and got them to a championship game.
• 54:49
  So they seemed to know what they were doing there.
• 54:53
  There in the Giants front office.
• 54:57
  How much of an influence or how did Lombardi influenced Charlie's game?
• 55:04
  Well, Lombardi, I mean, obviously, he just.
• 55:08
  He knew X's and O's as well as anybody, you know, so.
• 55:11
  So I think he knew what Charlie's Strengths were.
• 55:16
  And he knew the strengths of his offense, you know, so, you know, probably a little bit more.
• 55:26
  I wouldn't say wide open, but, you know, he was able to.
• 55:30
  To work, you know, you know, a little bit more with what he had with Connerly, you know, but I think Lombardi just knew, you know, his skill level, knew what he did best, you know, and tried to curtail
• 55:46
  that, you know, in.
• 55:48
  In his game plans or.
• 55:50
  Or some, you know, play calls.
• 55:52
  He would, you know, suggest it to.
• 55:54
  To Connerly, you know, so.
• 55:56
  And I think that's why Connerly was very successful during those years in.
• 56:02
  In 56, 57 and 58, you know, before Lor left and, you know, and had.
• 56:10
  And then Connerly had his, you know, like I said, one of his best years with ali Sherman in 59.
• 56:16
  So.
• 56:18
  But Lombardi knew people's strengths and weaknesses, I think, as.
• 56:22
  As well as any coach in NFL history.
• 56:24
  In.
• 56:25
  In.
• 56:25
  Connerly kind of benefited from that.
• 56:28
  Well, you know, like we said, he led him to four championship games.
• 56:32
  One, one.
• 56:35
  There's an interesting lineage here for Giants fans of today.
• 56:42
  Connerly went to Ole Miss and won an NFL championship with the Giants.
• 56:47
  Eli Manning went to Ole Miss, won two Super Bowls with the Giants.
• 56:54
  Jackson Dart's got some pretty big shoes to fill, doesn't he?
• 57:00
  Wow, you're really reaching there.
• 57:03
  But that is.
• 57:04
  That is.
• 57:04
  I mean, Ron, that puts even more pressure on Jackson Dart, I guess so.
• 57:08
  That would be a very strange but true sort of nugget to say, hey, look, the Giants have had, you know, this could be the third Ole Miss quarterback that, you know, wins a championship.
• 57:20
  So that's something to, you know, like that.
• 57:22
  That's positive.
• 57:23
  That's positive thinking there, you know, not.
• 57:25
  Not seeing the glass half empty there.
• 57:27
  So I went.
• 57:30
  When I was thinking about that, it's pretty funny.
• 57:33
  So when you're talking about Charlie Connerly, I gotta ask about.
• 57:40
  Probably one of the most unusual chapters of his life came after football when he became the Marlboro Man.
• 57:50
  I can't even say the word.
• 57:51
  Marlboro.
• 57:53
  Right, the cigarette.
• 57:54
  Marlboro.
• 57:55
  Yeah.
• 57:55
  How did that happen?
• 57:58
  Well, I mean, it just, you know, funny happenstance of, you know, he had the right look and he, you know, knew the right, you know, people and they said, hey, let's give this a try.
• 58:13
  And he looked perfect.
• 58:16
  I mean, there's not too many other people maybe outside Sam Elliott that looks like, you know, the Marlboro man and could, you know, could play that role, but he seemed to fit it and, you know, he didn't have
• 58:28
  to really speak.
• 58:29
  So that fit his personality, you know, I think very well.
• 58:32
  He wasn't somebody who wanted to, you know, to be in movies or, you know, be the, the, the life of the party.
• 58:40
  So it kind of like, hey, you know what?
• 58:42
  I'll, I'll do it.
• 58:43
  And it just perfect timing and situation for him to, to do that.
• 58:49
  It's funny how we all have a difficulty pronouncing certain words.
• 58:55
  Marlboro.
• 58:56
  I can't say Marlboro.
• 58:57
  That campaign became one of the most recognizable advertising campaigns in American history.
• 59:07
  Coming from such a small town like Clarksdale, Mississippi, was Charlie comfortable with that kind of fame?
• 59:19
  I mean, he didn't seek it.
• 59:21
  You know, you can almost compare his career or at least, you know, with his one.
• 59:26
  One of his best friends was Frank Gifford.
• 59:28
  And, you know, I think Frank sort of pursued that a little bit harder.
• 59:34
  You know, I think the thing for Charlie was, you know, he was the face of the Giants.
• 59:39
  You know, he lived in New York, you know, during the season, you know, obviously, you know, and he liked to go out, you know, but it was more of a, I want to go out with my wife.
• 59:50
  You know, Perry Ann was a very well known personality too.
• 59:56
  Yeah, she's like the first ever woman of the professional football writers.
• 1:00:02
  Yeah, so.
• 1:00:03
  So she knew football.
• 1:00:05
  She was writing a column, you know, back in Mississippi, you know, that, that, you know, other newspapers would pick up to sort of give you a little insight.
• 1:00:14
  So they liked having a good time, you know, not necessarily partying, but just like, hey, we want to go out to dinner, we want to go to Shores, or, you know, we want to go see a play, you
• 1:00:27
  know, and Gifford, you know, was the same way.
• 1:00:29
  So they would go out to dinners or, you know, just have a drink or two.
• 1:00:33
  And so I think he liked that.
• 1:00:35
  He didn't mind doing that.
• 1:00:37
  He just didn't need to be the life of the party or, hey, I need to be on tv, you know.
• 1:00:41
  You know, like some of those New York players, whether it was like, like Frank Gifford and Sam Huff, you know, went into TV or radio or did some, you know, some, some, some, some more media, you know, Charlie
• 1:00:55
  didn't really need to seek that out, you know, so.
• 1:00:59
  But he did like to, hey, I want to go enjoy.
• 1:01:02
  If I'm going to be in New York for, you know, five months, I'm gonna enjoy it, you know, my wife's gonna enjoy it, and we're gonna get the best out of it, you know, so, so, so he didn't
• 1:01:14
  really seek it.
• 1:01:15
  He wasn't a fame seeker or publicity or, you know, TV wants.
• 1:01:20
  Tv, like Kyle wrote, was another one who did tv, you know, in New York and nationally.
• 1:01:24
  So in Pat Summerall, like, there's a lot of guys that did it.
• 1:01:29
  Connor kind of let them, you know, sort of take, you know, take the reins on those.
• 1:01:33
  Those type of jobs later after life and.
• 1:01:36
  But he would.
• 1:01:37
  He would enjoy New York, you know, as well as anybody, you know.
• 1:01:42
  Can you think of any story, one story in particular, that perfectly captures who Charlie Connolly was, both as a play and as a man?
• 1:01:52
  Well, I think I mentioned it kind of earlier.
• 1:01:54
  I think it shows you what the type of character he was, you know, coming from, you know, the Deep south in Mississippi, and to be able to relate to, you know, you know, this whole organization of the New
• 1:02:12
  York Giants.
• 1:02:13
  I just.
• 1:02:13
  I think that just shows a lot more character of who he was, you know.
• 1:02:18
  You know.
• 1:02:19
  You know, I think some of those players from the south, you know, took a little bit of time to get to know people or didn't take the time to get to know, you know, so.
• 1:02:32
  So for him to be able to say, hey, look, you know, he's, you know, best friends with Emily Tennel, you know, Rosie Greer, you know, you know, Rose.
• 1:02:40
  Rosie Brown was his protection, you know, left tackle, hall of Famer, like, for him to fit in so well and they respect him so much, you know, I think it just shows you, you know, the type of character
• 1:02:55
  he was.
• 1:02:56
  So.
• 1:02:57
  So it's not quite a story.
• 1:02:58
  I just think it's his personality, you know, because I don't know too many, you know.
• 1:03:03
  You know, I mean, there's baseball with Peewee Reese, you know, sort of his relationship with Jackie, you know, but in football, you know, some of the players from the Deep south you had never played against an African American,
• 1:03:17
  you know, so.
• 1:03:18
  So for him to be a leader like that, you know, I think, like, that shows a lot of what type of character he had and the respect that all his teammates had for him.
• 1:03:32
  Well, Chris, this has been fascinating.
• 1:03:35
  I mean, this is.
• 1:03:36
  We're talking about a Hall of Fame quarterback who's not in the hall of Fame.
• 1:03:39
  I mean, that's basically what it comes down to.
• 1:03:43
  I want to thank you so much, much again, for taking time out of your day to spend with me on Sports Forgotten Heroes.
• 1:03:49
  I always appreciate it when you visit.
• 1:03:53
  This has been terrific.
• 1:03:54
  Thanks so much.
• 1:03:55
  Nope.
• 1:03:55
  Thanks for having me, Warren.
• 1:03:56
  And I'll look for the next invite.
• 1:03:59
  It'll be there for his career, Charlie Connerly threw for just under 20,000 yards with 19,488.
• 1:04:10
  He completed just over 50% of his pass attempts, threw for 173 touchdowns, and he was the quarterback who led the giants to the NFL championship in 1956.
• 1:04:21
  He's also the quarterback who put Ole Miss on the map with several, we'll call them, legendary wins.
• 1:04:29
  Thanks again to my guest today, Chris.
• 1:04:31
  Willis, and thanks to all of you for tuning in.
• 1:04:33
  And I'll see you next time on Sports Forgotten Heroes.