Latest / Pharmacy Podcast Network / The Value of Community: A Conversation with the 2025 Community Leadership Award Finalists Episode Two | Cardinal Health™ Counter Talk™ Podca

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The Value of Community: A Conversation with the 2025 Community Leadership Award Finalists Episode Two | Cardinal Health™ Counter Talk™ Podca · Pharmacy Podcast Network

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  Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome.
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: Back to the Cardinal Health counter Talk podcast. I am
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  Speaker 3: your host, Jason colorI, and today we are putting the
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  Speaker 3: spotlight on another amazing pharmacist and one of our cardinal
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  Speaker 3: health community leadership award finalists. President and CEO of all
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  Speaker 3: Burn Pharmacies in Kansas and Missouri, Mike Burns. All Burn
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  Speaker 3: Pharmacy is a trusted, independently owned pharmacy proudly serving communities
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  Speaker 3: across Kansas.
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  Speaker 1: And Missouri for over thirty years.
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  Speaker 3: Mike was featured at RBC this year in Denver twenty
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  Speaker 3: twenty five that highlighted his commitment to his community and
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  Speaker 3: his team members across all his pharmacy locations. Mike, Welcome
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  Speaker 3: to the show and good to see you again.
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  Speaker 4: Hey, great to be here. Jason, So how you.
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  Speaker 1: Been have you?
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  Speaker 3: Has the Community Leadership Awards celebrity all the celebrity spotlight
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  Speaker 3: kicked in for you?
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  Speaker 4: Well, you know, Jason, it was quite an honor, you know,
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  Speaker 4: and and you know, just to have your name mentioned
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  Speaker 4: with with the other two. Yeah, it's it's a huge honor.
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  Speaker 4: And and in fact, sitting behind me, I have the
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  Speaker 4: nice award that they gave me. So it was very
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  Speaker 4: proudly on my desk, you know, reminding me of those
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  Speaker 4: that take the time to acknowledge of things that our
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  Speaker 4: community and independent pharmacies are doing out here. So thank you.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was it was a special ceremony a special night,
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  Speaker 3: especially highlighting all three of you. All of you brought
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  Speaker 3: something different and unique to the table. Yet in your
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  Speaker 3: own ways, provide unique services for your specific communities, which
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  Speaker 3: is you know what it's about. So with that said,
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  Speaker 3: I do want to take it back a little bit
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  Speaker 3: to the beginning. Here tell us about your journey into
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  Speaker 3: the pharmacy profession. I'm sure it's a question you've been
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  Speaker 3: asked a lot, but you know why you chose to
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  Speaker 3: become an independent pharmacy owner and the communities you serve.
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  Speaker 4: I was born and raised in u Dora, Kansas, a
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  Speaker 4: small community about five or ten minutes from the University
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  Speaker 4: of Kansas, but the being in a small community in
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  Speaker 4: whereverone knows each other. The local pharmacy was owned by
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  Speaker 4: a gentleman named stan Burne, and so he had Burn's Pharmacy,
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  Speaker 4: not b Uurns, but for stan burn and always looked
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  Speaker 4: up and respected him. I always felt like I wanted
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  Speaker 4: to go into the field of healthcare in some way.
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  Speaker 4: I even thought about going to med school. But oddly
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  Speaker 4: enough I thought, well, you know, I don't know if
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  Speaker 4: I really want to be available twenty four to seven,
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  Speaker 4: which only to find out once I own my own
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  Speaker 4: independent pharmacy, you were available twenty four to seven. But
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  Speaker 4: really the knowing Stan Burne, the local pharmacy owner, is
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  Speaker 4: really what led me to into pharmacy itself. Odwy Jason.
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  Speaker 4: When I first started to attend the University of Kansas,
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  Speaker 4: high school was very easy to me. I never really
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  Speaker 4: had to study. But when I went to the University
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  Speaker 4: of Kansas, I found that, you know, you really had
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  Speaker 4: to apply yourself, and to be honest, I wasn't really
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  Speaker 4: doing that and I had a good job in construction
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  Speaker 4: before I went to KU. But then Stan had called
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  Speaker 4: me about a month or two into the fall of
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  Speaker 4: nineteen eighty four and had said, hey, Mike, I understand
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  Speaker 4: you're going into pharmacy school. And he said, I have
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  Speaker 4: a student, Steve Auton, who was the AU out of Auburn.
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  Speaker 4: But he said, I have a student, Steve Aughton that's
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  Speaker 4: been working for me for about five years. He's going
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  Speaker 4: to be graduating in the spring. I'd like to see
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  Speaker 4: about bringing you in and having you work with Steve.
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  Speaker 4: And I'd said, well, gosh, you know, Stan, I'm not
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  Speaker 4: really sure that I'm going to study in pharmacy school.
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  Speaker 4: But after about a ten minute conversation, he convinced me
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  Speaker 4: to stick it out, and I'm sure glad he did.
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  Speaker 4: So really it's you know, those mentors in your local community.
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  Speaker 4: And so I feel blessed that he reached out to
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  Speaker 4: me and really encouraged me to stay the course and
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  Speaker 4: pursue my desire to be an independent pharmacy owner. And
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  Speaker 4: I did, and I worked there for five years through
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  Speaker 4: pharmacy school, put in a lot of hours, got to
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  Speaker 4: see every aspect of independent pharmacy and what it takes
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  Speaker 4: to really take care of your community. And so really
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  Speaker 4: that was it, growing up in a small community, looked
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  Speaker 4: up to the local community pharmacy owner, and here we
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  Speaker 4: are today.
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  Speaker 1: So, Mike, what do you have about thirty something locations.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, we have thirty four locations across Kansas and Missouri.
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  Speaker 4: We have twenty nine community pharmacies. We have five closed
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  Speaker 4: door long term care pharmacies where that's all we serve
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  Speaker 4: is hostile this and long term care communities. We also
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  Speaker 4: run to hospital pharmacy. So it's a couple of years
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  Speaker 4: when people have came to me and said, hey, Mike,
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  Speaker 4: you know, here's a you know, we have an opportunity
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  Speaker 4: Rather than say no, we say we'll figure it out.
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  Speaker 3: How do you I guess you know when you talk
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  Speaker 3: about all those different locations, and obviously you can't be
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  Speaker 3: in all those places at once, how are you building
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  Speaker 3: the trust with those patients in those different communities? Being
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  Speaker 3: that you know you have some you have a nice
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  Speaker 3: mixed bag of types of pharmacies, how are you building
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  Speaker 3: the trust within each of those communities, especially when you're
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: not really able to be there all the time. I
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  Speaker 3: thought it was one of the more important parts of
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  Speaker 3: your presentation when we were talking about the Community Leadership
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  Speaker 3: Award and how you have built the teams around you
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  Speaker 3: to do that and to connect with each in one
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  Speaker 3: of those communities.
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  Speaker 1: So talk a little bit about that.
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  Speaker 4: Well, Jason, Really is that it's the team and I
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  Speaker 4: thoroughly enjoy taking care of patients, building those relationships. And
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  Speaker 4: while I don't really get to do that that much anymore,
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  Speaker 4: I feel like maybe my place today is to still
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  Speaker 4: provide the opportunity for others to experience what I got
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  Speaker 4: to experience and have such a rewarding career. But it
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  Speaker 4: is about the people. You have to have the right people.
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  Speaker 4: We're blessed. We have so many pharmacy students that come
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  Speaker 4: through our pharmacies and Garnet in particular, where they get
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  Speaker 4: to spend a little time with me here in the
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: corporate office, they spend time with us at the pharmacy
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  Speaker 4: out at the local hospital. So they really get to
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: see what community pharmacy is really about. And for those
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: if that's something that they really want, where they get
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  Speaker 4: that touch by coming through Auburn Pharmacy. A lot of
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  Speaker 4: our pharmacists out there today are because they have met Auburn.
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  Speaker 4: We have met them through that process of coming through
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  Speaker 4: as a student. But then we also I always tell them,
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  Speaker 4: you know, I want to know that I'm giving all
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  Speaker 4: the resources that you need to be successful. We also
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: rotate our pharmacy managers. We have leadership meetings here at
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  Speaker 4: the office where we bring everybody in and talk about
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  Speaker 4: best practices and we lean on each other that you know,
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  Speaker 4: there's always somebody in that room or somebody in the
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  Speaker 4: company that knows a little bit more than you do
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  Speaker 4: about one particular part of pharmacy. And so really we've
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  Speaker 4: built that community, the Auburn community within Auburn Pharmacy where
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  Speaker 4: all of our pharmacy leaders hopefully that they feel part
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  Speaker 4: of something bigger than themselves. And again knowing that's what
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  Speaker 4: that's what we hear as you know, Mike, you know,
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  Speaker 4: working for Auburn, we feel like there's always somebody we
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  Speaker 4: can reach out to and get that help that we
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  Speaker 4: need to deliver the healthcare to our patients that they need,
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  Speaker 4: that they need and deserve.
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  Speaker 3: When you're talking about your patients, especially in all these
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  Speaker 3: different communities, how important is it to build trust within
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  Speaker 3: or outside I should say, those pharmacy walls where people
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  Speaker 3: come in, you know, when when healthcare is such a
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  Speaker 3: challenge these days, you know, pharmacists, independent pharmacists especially, you know,
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  Speaker 3: going through all the challenges you guys are going through,
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  Speaker 3: you know, getting people through the door and building the
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  Speaker 3: trust in those communities.
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  Speaker 1: How important is.
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  Speaker 3: That And how do you feel it's been I guess
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  Speaker 3: more recently, has it been harder to build the trust
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  Speaker 3: or hasn't gotten a little easier?
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  Speaker 4: Well, you know, Jason, that's a great question. And the
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  Speaker 4: one thing that I learned in pharmacy school is that
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  Speaker 4: patients will not really care how much you know until
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  Speaker 4: they know how much you care. And that's something that
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  Speaker 4: I learned right away.
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  Speaker 1: That's a great quote.
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  Speaker 4: I love that. Yeah. And you know, once once they do,
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  Speaker 4: once they really know that you care, they will give
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  Speaker 4: you grace. Let's face it, you know, retail pharmacy, whether
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  Speaker 4: you're in a community or a large chain, it's tough
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  Speaker 4: today with the reimbursements, it's hard to have the staff
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  Speaker 4: that you'd like to have, so it can be it
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  Speaker 4: can be very difficult and real challenge, and patients do
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  Speaker 4: get frustrated. There's things that they don't know and understand,
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: whether it's about their particular prescription benefit. You know, the
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: copay is too high? Why do I need a prior authorization?
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  Speaker 4: Why am I being forced to go mail order? But
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  Speaker 4: once you build that trust with the patients, they will
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: be forgiving and they will listen to you, and they
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  Speaker 4: will trust you rather than you know, just feeling like
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  Speaker 4: you know, you're just you're just telling them something to
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  Speaker 4: get rid of them. They truly trust and believe you,
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  Speaker 4: and and really that breaks down the walls, allowing us
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: to more effectively take care of our patients. When they'll
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: slow down, they'll listen and they appreciate us. But that
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  Speaker 4: trust is something that's vitally important, and I believe through
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  Speaker 4: all of our community pharmacies that's what we've done, is
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  Speaker 4: we've built trust within the community and our patient base.
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  Speaker 3: So, Mike, you mentioned encouraging local students to come through
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  Speaker 3: your doors and learn how a pharmacy is being run.
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  Speaker 3: But your impact in the community you serve extends to
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: a lot of different areas, helping tourism thrive, working to
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: create affordable housing, donating generously to serving different organizations in
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  Speaker 3: the area. How did you first become involved in these
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: efforts and what inspire you to serve these specific causes
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  Speaker 3: and organizations.
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  Speaker 4: Well, growing up, my mother she was always involved civically.
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  Speaker 4: She was in the Seroptismus Club, she was on the
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: Chamber of Commerce, and had multiple other organizations. And then,
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: of course when I went to work for stan Berne
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  Speaker 4: and you, Dora, I saw just how involved he was,
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: you know, whether it was a school board or whatever
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  Speaker 4: he was and giving of his own time whatever he did.
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  Speaker 4: So that and you know, you worked there for five
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: years and you see that happen, and you see your
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: parents be involved. And I do believe Jason, at the
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: end of the day, whether all of us realize it
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  Speaker 4: or not, all we really want to do is make
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  Speaker 4: a difference in the lives of others. Sometimes it's in
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  Speaker 4: a big way. You know, it doesn't always have to
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: be saving a life. But you know, sometime when that
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: patient comes in and they see and they give you
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: a hug, or you're delivering that prescription to them, you
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: might be the only person they see all week. So
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  Speaker 4: I think that making a difference in people's lives is
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  Speaker 4: what we're all really about. And once you get a
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: little taste of it, you just want more.
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  Speaker 3: How have you and your staff contributed to these organizations
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: because you have so many, you know, across you know,
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: the spectrum of Kansas and Missouri that I would imagine
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: you're pretty much getting your entire staff across all these locations,
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: getting them activated into getting involved and doing all this.
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  Speaker 1: For these for these special causes that you believe in.
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: How important has that been and has it made a
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: true impact on your staff in general?
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: Well? I think it has, and I think that they
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: would tell you that, you know, you get more out
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: of than what you put in. When I look across
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: you know, the geography of pharmacies that we have. I
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: know that we have people involved in for a we
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: have involved in their economic development. We have them involved,
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: you know, whether it's a fundraiser for cancer or even
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: helping coach in your community, making a difference on kids
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: at your rec leagues, and so, you know, we do
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: everything we can to encourage that. We try to create
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: a flexible schedule for instance, and preparing for this podcast,
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: I was thinking, in fact, I just came from Rotary,
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: by the way, we have a Rotary meeting today and
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: Nate Wheel who is work one of our pharmacists here
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: and helps run the hospital pharmacy for us for probably
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: the last fifteen years since he's been with us, he
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: takes a week and goes to a diabetes camp for kids.
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  Speaker 4: We help make that possible by keeping him on salary.
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: He doesn't have to take vacation to do that. I
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: know what it means to all those kids when they
• 13:50
  Speaker 4: receive that personal care from pharmacists and other caregivers. So
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: you know, it just means, you know, we just have
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: to go a little bit further and do a little
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: bit more to make our pharmacies and our pharmacy staff
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: available to participate, which isn't always the easiest thing to do,
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: but that's probably the thing we encourage and we enable
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: and give them the resources to be there.
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  Speaker 3: Can you give us any I guess, details on a
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: specific impact you have made, or any stories that you
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: feel like these causes that you have been supporting, whether
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: donation amounts, increase in visitors from a tourism standpoint, or
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: just any personal stories that you've come across with these
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: with these specific organizations that you've helped, well, you.
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: Know, without naming people specific, you know, when you've been
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: doing this almost thirty five years, and gosh, you know,
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: you've got kids you helped take care of. Now they're grown,
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: they're grown adults and have kids of their own. But
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: just not too long ago, someone had reached out to
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: me on Facebook and they're now grown and have kids,
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: and had told the story about when they were little
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: that I got out in the middle of the night
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: and actually delivered a prescription to their house to help
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: take care of them. And in their eyes, you know,
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: literally it was a life saving event. And I'll be honest,
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: I don't even remember doing that. And that's okay, Yeah,
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: you know, I always say, you know, the difference between
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: a job and a career is when you know people
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: remember what you did in your career, Like they don't
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: remember that you were a pharmacist specifically, but they that
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: they remember those little things that you did as a pharmacist,
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: And those are what really touches me When when people
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: tell me stories about the things that I've done and
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: what my other staff does that I don't ever hear about,
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: but then when I hear from them where it really
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: made a difference in people's lives. That's that's what makes
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: you get up and keep doing what you do every day.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's amazing. I love that definitely.
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: Just incorporating all these different acts of kindness and all
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: and empowering your staff to do so as well.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Your your your.
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: Empowerment to your staff and serving the community. Have you
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: seen things that or maybe not seeing things that your
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: staff has done outside the walls of the pharmacy that
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: you end up hearing about, you know, and you know
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: down the line maybe a month or two later, like,
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: oh my gosh, you actually you contribute to this X,
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: Y or Z. Does does any of that surprise you
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: at this point? Like you said, you've been doing it
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: for so long. I'm just curious if your staff still
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: ends up surprising you somehow in a good way.
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: No. You know, social media it can be the best
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: of times and it can be the most Yeah, but
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: I will say that that on social media, Look, it
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: always feels good to know that you're making a difference
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: and that those around your team are making a difference.
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: And we've been blessed that people will reach out and
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: commend our pharmacies and staff for doing great things. And
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: when it comes through here through our social media and
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: our marketing department, when we hear about when someone reaches
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: out and says, hey, this pharmacist community really went above
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: and beyond and did these things, we make sure and
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: share that back out to our entire staff. We send
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: that to every pharmacy saying, look, we know that you
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: may all the little things that you do. You know
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: they you may not always hear about it, that it
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: does make a difference. And so it is it's so
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: rewarding when when we hear that to come through and
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: and you know, when I'm out in the community, even
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: here locally, and people pull me aside and say, you know, Mike,
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: we appreciate what you and your staff does, and then
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: they tell me the little things that they do. Then
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: that that that gives me an opportunity when I see
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: that person to give them a hug or a high
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: five and shake their hand and say, you know what,
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: thanks for what you do.
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: So, Mike, I got to ask you because you know
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: your video, all the all the videos that we create,
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: and we talked to your staff, you know for RBC,
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: all of them were very impactful.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: Yours You've had.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: You had a lot of folks in your staff that
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: were featured in that video that said some really incredible
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: things about you, about being goal oriented, about setting the standard,
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: about you know, caring for your community, stepping up, doing
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: the right thing. When you saw that video for the
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: first time, how was that? Was that surprising to you
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: or did you even see that coming? Or I just
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: wanted to know because I wasn't able to see your face,
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: your reaction because I was backstage.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: I was just wondering what was that like?
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: Well, Jason, I'll be honest, you know, I wasn't in
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: those interviews when when you over here solid my eyes
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: welled up, kind of control it because I I don't
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: know whether I deserve that or not. I will tell
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: you I'm very hard on myself. Yeah, and you know
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: I I always felt like that, you know, I can't
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: expect anything from anybody else that I can't hold myself
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: to that same standard. And I think those around you
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: will around around here will tell you that. You know,
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: I expect a lot of myself. I drive myself real hard,
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: and you know, and I let myself down a lot
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: because I have my expectation myself are pretty high. But
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: when I saw that, yeah, it it brought tears. Yes,
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: I know, I looked over at my wife and it
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: was all I could do to keep it together. So,
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: you know, thank you for doing it. Thanks to thank
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: Cardinal for doing that. But you know, I guess thanks
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: to everybody on my team for believing in me and
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: supporting me. But yeah, it was it was touching and
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: emotional things and saying that you don't you don't hear
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: on a day to day basis, but to actually see
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: it up on the screen, it was it was a lot.
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: Well that's the thing, and that's why I wanted to
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: point it out because I feel like it's the things
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: that your team members and other people say about you,
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: and I think you had mentioned that previously. It's it's
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: the things you do that impact others and that and
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: you know, when we sat down with your staff, we
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: didn't have to coax any of that from them. They
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: were just like, Okay, yeah, this is Mike, this is
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: what he does, is what he's about. And it was
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: extremely It was inspirational to kind of hear that. So
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: kudos to you what you've done with your team and
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: what you've built. I do want to shift this over
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: to an advocacy conversation because I think this is part
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: of your presentation that's also very important, and that all
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: the guests that we were all the community pharmacy, the
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: nominees were all highlighted, which were their involvement in advocacy
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: From a pharmacy standpoint, How is being involved in advocacy
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: impacted you and your pharmacy overall.
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: You know, Jason, up until ten or twelve years ago,
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: other than locally, I really wouldn't say that I was
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: that involved in advocacy other than promoting community pharmacy to
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: students and things, but as far as at the state
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: and national level. But having involved so much more in
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: the last ten years, and again, I mean, now you
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: know I've made friendships and have fellowships through that process
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: that you know, if I've got a question or I
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: need something, I can pick up the phone and call
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: anybody in the country and I know that that they're
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: there for me. And you know it just recently obviously
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: with PBM reform, the things that are going on across
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: the country and at a state state level, for instance,
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: just just Friday, I was I testified in front of
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: a congressional committee at our state capital and trying to
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: push for PBM reform, and it's, uh, you know, it
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: can be it can be daunting, it can be frustrating,
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: but when you start to see the lights come on
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: and then again, I was surprised how many people paid
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: attention to that. People reached out to me afterwards and said, hey, Mike,
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: thanks for fighting the good fight. Keep it up. You
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: know we're behind you. You know it's it's it's a
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: whole lot easier to go in a battle when you
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: know everybody's behind you and they got your back for sure.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: So are you do you feel like you're both active
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: both at a state and a national level or are
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: you really focused on the state level.
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: I know both, Yeah, you know, we we do. I
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: or I and and fact Nate wheel He's he's been
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: very active We've had a couple of other pharmacists very active,
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: but at the national level through NCPA, and that's through
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: the encouragement of other pharmacists that said, hey, Mike, we
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: need you at the at the national level. So just
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: got back from d C a few weeks ago where
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: we flew in we met with leadership from CMS, some
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: folks from the FTC, and then obviously we had our
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: hill visit visits where we went in and visited with
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: with our senators and and UH and congressmen, and so
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: we're I'm very involved nationally, but at the state level,
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: I've become more involved. I am part of the the UH,
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: the Government Affairs Committee with the Kansas Pharmacist Association and
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: and I'm I'm looking for the next three to five
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: years to really continue to stay heavily involved. And then
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: I hope someday to turn that over to somebody else.
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: But I can tell then I'm I'm willing to be
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: the one to stand in there and and do whatever
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: is needed.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: Well, I think what would be beneficial for folks to
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: hear is some of the key lessons you've learned from
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: your advocacy efforts. I mean, I know not everyone is
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: comfortable with maybe going up on a stand and testifying
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: just like you experience, but just through Because you you
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: just mentioned you've been you haven't been too involved, you know,
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: for a number of years you've it's been more recent
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: for you. So what key lessons have you learned from
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: your advocacy efforts.
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: Well, that it does matter. Your voice matters. And that's
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: what I've shared with everybody across our whole entire company.
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: I will send emails out with you know, things I
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: get from MCPA, and I will say today I want
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: two hundred phone calls and you know, explaining to everybody
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: that you know somethings. People are intimidated. But you know,
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: all you have to do is talk to your legislators
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: and just let them know you know, you're where you stand,
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: ask them to support a particular bill or an issue.
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: But your voice matters. And because if you're not speaking up,
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: there's always somebody's going to be speaking up on your behalf,
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: and they may not be telling the story that you
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: want to be told. They're going to tell the other
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: side of the story. And but you know, I'm not alone.
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: There's a large group both here locally at the state level,
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: we have an amazing government affairs committee, our board, the
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: Kansas Pharmacist Association, but then also at the NCPA, And
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: you know, if you just reach out to these organizations,
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: they're going to give you the support, They're going to
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: give you the confidence you need. I know at NCPA,
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: the professionalism and the staff that we have there, they're
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: just absolutely amazing. So they give you the information that
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: you need. And but but I guess the final answer
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: to that is I will just end with that your
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: voice matters and they will listen to you. So you've
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: got to get out and you've got to get involved.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: How do you think is the best way for an
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: independent pharmacy to maybe just start getting involved? I think
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: you mentioned picking up the phone calling some legislators. You know,
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: from all the pharmacists we've talked to, that seems to
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: be the you know, the first step, and then things
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: start to grow from there.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: Would you agree with that?
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: I would. And it does start financial. You know, you've
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: got to support your state associations and your national associations because.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: The good points.
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: So it does start financial. You've got to write the
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: check and you can't afford not to make that investment.
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: So once you do that, then the next investment is
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: a personal investment, and and that is you know, showing
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: up and and attending meetings, attending conferences. And then like
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: this year we had in Kansas, we had I don't
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: remember the total number, but at least as far as
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: Auburn pharmacy. We we called it closed for a cause.
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: It was something that I've been advocating for, even at
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: the national level, to bring awareness to at the state
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: and national level that if our pharmacies closed, they are
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: mostly never going to reopen. So imagine what it would
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: be like if your community pharmacy closed. So even if
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: we could only close it for a day, maybe a
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: little bit unexpectantly, where now your other healthcare providers, your patients.
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: They realized, gosh, what if that pharmacy did close, and
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: what if they were gone? So we closed all of
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: our pharmacies. I believe it was on a Wednesday in
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: February across the whole state of Kansas. And instead I
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: paid my employees, put on your white jackets, put on
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: your blue technician, put on your shirts. We showed up.
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: We had well over one hundred people at the capital,
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: and that got attention. That got attention. And the other
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: thing it did is it showed the rest of our
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: team top to bottom. You don't have to be a
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: pharmacist to have a voice that counts our technicians and
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: our clerks. We had people show up from across the
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: state and from all levels when our company and they
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: got to see firsthand how much they matter. And so
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: we're planning on doing that again this year. We're going
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: to close for a cause. And again I've home that
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: message that our community pharmacies, in a lot of cases,
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: they are your primary care number one. Even if you
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: do have clinics in those communities, the primary care physicians
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: are overwhelmed and it's hard to get in and see them.
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: And now where you have pharmacies, you know not only
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: you know your normal mainstream services that you think of
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: when you go into a pharmacy, and not only just vaccines,
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: but now we can do point of care testing. We're
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: under protocol from our physicians. You can come in and
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: be tested for STREP, be tested for flu, and if
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: we find that it's positive, then we can we can
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: have that prescription filled for you. So we are that
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: primary and we're the most accessible. But but that's that's
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: something that we found really important as I had a
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: lot of the staff too. You know, they stand a
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: little bit taller and a little bit more proud realizing
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: that they are part of the solution and part of
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: making sure that we lead pharmacy into the next generation.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: I'm going to tell everybody listening to watch out on
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: Auburn Pharmacy social media handles for clothes for a cause.
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: If you guys are posting it, maybe we can get
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: everybody together, everybody seeing to do the same thing. I
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: think that would be really impactful. You know, all you
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: guys together, as you mentioned, one, one voice for everybody
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: to fight this battle.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: That's amazing.
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: A few last questions for you, Mike, I do want
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: to ask you just to kind of close things out here.
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: How do you believe your involvement in and around your
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: community has impacted the actual trajectory of your pharmacy business.
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: Well, obviously, you know, the more you're out there, people
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: appreciate that, you know, they're going to support you and again,
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: knowing how much you care, when they see that you're
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: willing to invest personally in the community, they're going to
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: come out and personally support your business. Now, sometimes that's
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: a little more challenging, you know, they they sometimes they
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: want to do business with us, but they're restricted. But
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: that's always good to hear where they are really frustrated
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: and sometimes just downright mad. They want to be able
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: to use their local pharmacy and there's barriers to that.
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: But yeah, you go out, you get involved in your community,
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: and you know, again you get more out of it
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: than what you put in. But I hope you know,
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: encourage every every pharmacy owner and every pharmacist, whether you're
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: an owner or not. Again, whether you're a pharmacist or
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: a technician, get out and get involved in the communities
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: and it'll return. You'll get the returns tenfold.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Within the next year.
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: Where do you see yourself serving your community? What are
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: you most excited about as an independent pharmacist going forward?
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: Well, I think again, the greatest thing that I feel
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: like that I've done over the last year and I
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: planned to over the next year or two is legislative
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: and legislative reform and making sure that everybody in our
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: community understands what's at stake, you know, rather than just
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: get it upset, if they understand why pharmacies the way
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: it is today and what they can do to help
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: support by reaching out to the legislators. When legislators hear
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: from our patients, that is huge. So that's really what
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: I'm looking forward to most. I mean, aside from you know,
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: you know, I'm involved in trying to bring more housing
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: to our community here, I'm on the housing authority. Those
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: things are important, but I think that the thing that
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: I'm most focused on right now is legislative awareness, and
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: not just within pharmacy, but within our patient base and
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: other employers, whether it's our school district, our city, our county,
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: to make sure that they understand what's going on so
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: that they can be part of the be part of
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: the solution as well.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, do you feel like, because you're a pharmacy owner,
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: maybe a legislative body may look at certain pharmacists and
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: feel like, well, you know, there's a money agenda here.
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: They want to make more money and do all that.
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: But if they're hearing from a patient who is under
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: the care of an independent pharmacist and knows how much
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: more valuable of healthcare and how personalized healthcare you guys
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: can provide, it just it feels a little bit different.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Would you agree with that?
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: No, absolutely. You know, as the pharmacist and pharmacy owner,
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: we can appear biased when it trickles down and it
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: affects the patient, and then the patient is willing to
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: reach out and share their stories on how it's affecting
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: them and their family. That's powerful.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. I think that's a great idea. Mike.
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: I want to say thank you for hanging out with
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: me for a little while today, just to see you again,
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: even though somewhat virtually, but to talk to you in
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: person really, you know, download a lot of the things
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: that you're doing within your community, within your pharmacy, within
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: your team, and especially for your pharmacy business. You know,
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: I think it's a You're definitely a beacon of inspiration
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: for a lot of pharmaci season. I think you're just
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: you know, you're you're doing really good things and I'm
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: looking forward to talking to you again.
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: Well, Jason, thank you, And I want to thank Cardinal
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: Health because you know, just the resources that they're spending
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: here to you know, to get you and I together,
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: you know, that's that's that's so vitally important. So I
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: appreciate everything you are doing on your end. We've got
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: to be a team. We got to stick together.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: I want to say thanks to Mike for providing all
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: his valuable insights on how to be a true pillar
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: of trust and success.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: In your communities.
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: We thank all of the amazing pharmacists out there keeping
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: our communities healthy. Thanks for listening today's episode of the
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: Cardinal Health counter Talk podcast, and as a reminder that
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: this is your first time listening, make sure you subscribe
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: and download the Cardinal Health counter Talk podcast wherever you
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: get your podcasts. See you on the next episode, and
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: to everyone take care
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: To ex