Latest / WoT Spoilers / What the Storm Means - The Gathering Storm prologue part 1 - EP511

Transcript

What the Storm Means - The Gathering Storm prologue part 1 - EP511 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Let's start with Patreons.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Patreons, patres while since we've updated on Patreons and
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: it's a new book, so let us begin this episode,
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: begin this season, begin all of the things with a
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: listing of our latest Patreons.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: All right, let's start with the oldest one with Michael Davis.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Michael Davis.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Michael Davis. Thank you. To Satu Yoha, that's
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: what i'd go with.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you you how.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: That's a cool looking name. Sorry I mispronounced it.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Sorry, we butchered it. We're doing our best. Griffin Robinson,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: thank you, Griffin, thank you.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Griffin is a cool name that we do know how
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: to pronounce. It's very fantasy, okay, fantasy, Thank you very
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: much to Johannis and Stefan.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Is that three eyes.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: In a sea or it's two l's.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: An I and a sea? Lick? That that doesn't seem
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: correct at all.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: I don't even know where to go with that. I
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: was I was over here worrying that if it's like
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Johannas or Johannes, like, am I yankee too hard with
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: that hard Jake?
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, yeah, it's the fun I I will you
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: know what that's I wonder if I can figure.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: Out I'm sorry, I name.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Names are hard. And we said that, Oh my god. Yeah,
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: going on my honeymoon to Mexico and I like got
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: to do a dou lingo and I was like, I'm
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: gonna learn some Spanish. No, no, my brain bounces right off,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: bounces right off.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: Just learned how to say I'm bad at speaking Spanish.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: And I'm not no Spaniel, right, Can.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: You just say it really in the accent that you
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: have and no problems in your.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Thing is never speaks pretty good Spanish? Right, So she's
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna just stand behind her, nod and smile and.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Be like like I'm the tall one with the wallet.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry I interrupted us there.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: You want to continue with the names?
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Jeremy, do you pronounce possible? Pretend that like half the
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: letters are not there? Yeah, I think we're gonna go
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: with that. Jeremy, ned you. Thank you, Jeremy, Thank you.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: Very much, Jeremy. And the most recent one, Thank you
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: very much to Robin Johnson. A very pronounceable name. Thank
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: you for having a pronounced name. I'm sorry we are
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: so American it hurts.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I really appreciate all you people who have continued
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: to join Patreon continue to support us. You know, I'm
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: really grateful that through all of this time and effort
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: and life updates and life changes and breaks, that we
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: continue to be supported by our patrons, you know, both
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: both the existing and the new ones. As you probably
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: know from the episode where we've thanked our top ten,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: top twenty or we went through them all, there's almost
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: too many to thank in any given episode. We really
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: can't do it because we've had so many, so much
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: support from so many people over so many years. You know,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough. But also please keep it up.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: We really appreciate you, and especially people who come in
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: as we are really late on in the process. It
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: just kind of surprises me we can still be finding
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: new people. So welcome, Welcome to the new people. And
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: also thank you so much to all the people who
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: have been around forever for holding it down and creating
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: the space in which we make this happen. You're all wonderful.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: I have to wonder if the binge still exists for people,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: if there's still people out there who discover it and
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: just binge through the whole thing, if that happens every
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: once in a while.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: I have to assume it does. Yeah, I mean, just
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: statistics being what they our people are always finding the
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: books anew, so presumably they find the podcast about the book, and.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: The download numbers do do suggest that there are a
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: certain number of people at all times binging through the episodes.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. There is a backbeat floor level of
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: listening that has to one assumes has to represent multiple
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: binges happening, multiple catchups happening, And welcome to all of
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: you who are on that ride. You're all fantastic. Oh yeah,
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: there is this weird thing regarding Patreon. If you subscribe
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: to Patreon through the Apple app, they're going to charge
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: you literally like an extra thirty percent. If you sign
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: up through a browser or through any other app, you're fine,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: But if you go through the Apple app, there's like
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: a thirty percent extra charge that's got introduced like this November.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: It's very silly. Just don't use the Apple app to subscribe,
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: which if you're listening to this, you probably are already
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: subscribed one way or another, so like, eh, but it's
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: I don't Apple just hates money, I guess so.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: I think most of our subscribers subscri before you could
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: through the Apple thing, right, So I doubt it affects
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: very many of you, but if it does, please don't
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: use Apple for that kind of thing. Yeah, they'd like
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: to take a chunk out of the middle, and that
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: dispute is causing problems.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but probably not super relevant to our audience, I hope.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: So yeah, thank you very much, patrons. We appreciate you.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: The next thing I want to talk about, it's not
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: great news. My dog Timber died a few weeks ago.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: A lot of you heard him through the podcast, and
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: he was around a lot. He'd been in my life
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: for about nine years, and he got pretty sick in
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: the middle of the night and we took him to
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: the vet and they let us know that his gall
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: bladder had burst and he was basically his organs were
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: shutting down, and so we had to put him down.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: And it's been hard for me. But I know a
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: lot of you loved him too, and a lot of
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: you got to meet him. So I wanted to let
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: you know. Okay, I don't think I won't talk about
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: that much more.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I will, just you know, say that in the
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: show notes, we are going to have a link to
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: the Oregon Humane Society, which was the place that made
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: all the timber things happen. And if you would like
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: to express your support for the podcast and the contributions
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: that he brought to you, that's going to be the
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: place to do it. Obviously, messages in the discord are
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: going to make us cry, but you know, totally makes sense.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: He is definitely the patron saint of the podcast, always
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: will be. Yeah, he's immortalized in the podcast. He's immortalizing
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: the cheepy art I got made for you.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: Guys, and he was Oh god, it was great. We
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: got some wonderful photos of him at our wedding. Yeah,
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: it was hard. He passed about a month after the.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: Wedding, almost exactly.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but we got some professional photos taken of him,
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: which was just what they're wonderful to have and look
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: back on, you know. I mean, he was such a
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: spoiled dog. He got to go with never to the
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: office every day, so he was petted and loved by
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: a whole office of people. He was never by himself.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: You know, he slept in the bed every night. He
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: was he was spoiled, rotten. You know, the dog couldn't
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: have gotten a better life, and I just it was
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: it was very unexpected and I very much didn't I
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: wasn't prepared to let him go when I did, so.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, deeply unexpected and super like yeah super you know,
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: I think traumatizing for us as a community obviously way
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: worse for you and never but like he's been part
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: of this since the beginning, Like the first time I
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: met you and Patrick, like Timber was how Brandon was
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: like all right, and I don't think these guys are psychos.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: The dog seems too happy to be of hanging out
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: with like psycho humans, so it's like he's he's very
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: introg so like how we've all come together informed as
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: a community. So I know this is going to affect
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: a lot of people and it really sucks. So again,
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: please keep him and his humans in your thoughts and
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: take your donation level energy to the Oregon Humane Society
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: through the link that will be in the show notes,
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: and hug all your fur babies because life is short
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: and the Rainbow Bridge looms. Yeah, shitty update to have
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: to give, but yeah, how it goes.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah it was. It's been a rough couple of weeks.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: I've I've been been struggling with the not having him,
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's hard to imagine you with that. I'm
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: definitely have been like and.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: Never as well. You know, she adopted him one hundred
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: percent right he was with her y, you know, basically
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: twenty four hours a day. She took him to the office,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: she was, she bought him home. They were together. The
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: only time they were part is when I took him
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: for walks, right like, So, I think for both of us,
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: it affected hers as much, if not more than an
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: effect to me. At first. She's bounced back a little
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: bit better. I think I'm still I think I handled
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: it a little bit better in the beginning, but I've
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: been struggling with it more as time has gone on,
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: which has been shocking to me.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: What you have delayed emotional processing? Why on earth would
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: that happen?
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: Oh? God? Well, and I just you know, and something
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: I guess I kind of did want to talk about
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: is just how how much guilt I feel. I think, Yeah,
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: I think that's that's something that's normal. You know. I
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: always feel like I should have there was something I
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: should have done, or something I could have caught, or
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: a different diet, you know, you know, I can look
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: back and be like, oh, maybe I you know, fed
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: him with too few too many table scraps or something,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: and you know, but but none of that's rational. It's
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: all just this just just guilt. Yeah, yeah, that was
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: a big part of losing him, I think is you know,
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: I don'tly do anyway, almost anyone could have given him
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: a better life than he got living with me, right.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Really not no, no, no, you.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: Know this is no real guilt to feel there, but
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: it's there anyway.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, yeah, I think that's a natural reaction.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: You know, it's incorrect, but it is perfectly natural to
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: blame yourself and go over the what could you have done?
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: But like it does seem like a solid case of
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: shit happens, right, you know, and like even if it
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: wasn't like it happened anyway, right.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: Right, And now at this point there's nothing you can do.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: But yeah, but the rumination spirals are seductive to everyone,
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: not just our neurotypes. Yeah. No, it's uh, it's been
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: rough knowing that you're having to go through that, that
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: you and never are like going through it, because I
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: know how it is to lose a pet. Not quite
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: like that but like everyone has gone through something and
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: it sucked. Yeah, it fucking sucks. Definitely, never really thought
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: that like we would have that happen as a podcast,
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: you know that, like we would have that like third
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: wheel of Timber, like get yoinked, like it's yeah, and
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: then you know, being far away from you guys and
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: be like I want to go help you out like
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: with existing, but also like you're in Portland and I
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: am not in Portland. Like having your friends suffer at
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: a distance is like way harder than having them have
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: a good time at a distance. It's easy to share
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: in someone's joy at a distance, but it's really hard
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: to feel like you are properly sharing in their sorrow
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: the way it deserves to be shared in when you're
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: hours away.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: And we had already planned to take time off, so
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: it's not you know, usually right before your putty podcast,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: right like, so it was already you know, we'd already
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: planned some some time off. This is you know, I
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: already kind of thought of this as being a bigger
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: gap because we were between Jordan and Sanderson, so you know,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: I was expecting more time off, and now you know,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: just so happened that I don't. I certainly needed it.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: I don't think I could have recorded those first couple
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: of weeks. Yeah, but also meant I wasn't talking to you,
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: which was kind sad. We didn't talk as much.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: But yeah, well I was. I was texting you every
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: day for a bit there.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we were definitely texting back and forth.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: But yeah, you were also responding like in the most
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: terse way possible.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Oh God, I've like.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: And like I'm here, You're like I'm dying, Like.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, why I had nothing? I mean, like because like
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: what do you do when you're just like you're taking turns,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: sobbing on the couch right like, there's no like, I'm
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: not coming out of this anytime soon. I'm not trying to.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: It's just it's bad right now.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: No, you just have to be present with it and
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: go through it. Yeah, great, stupid like.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: That, And I have not I've had people in my life.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: I've lost people in my life. I've never felt this way.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: I've lost animals. I've lost animals I grew up with,
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: but like there were always family animals, my parents' animals
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: or you know. Timber was my dog for ten years
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: and he was with me through relationships, podcasts, moves life,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: you know, Losing him was it does? It feels like
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: it's it's part of my part of just a hole
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: in my heart, yeah, you know, and it's days are
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: getting better. I'm not crying every day anymore, but I'm
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: shocked how much I'm crying. Like I just I didn't
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: think that I would be still struggling with this when
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: I look at a picture, when I see a picture
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: of him, or you know, like just uh, you know, yesterday,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: his harness is still in my back seat because I've
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: never taken it out. You know, I took it off
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: of him at the VAT because I don't know what
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: I want to do with it, right. I don't want
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: to I don't want to get rid of any of
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: his stuff, right, And I know this is somebody something
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: that everybody struggles with. Is like I have his dog bowl,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: I have his leash, I have his harness, I have
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: all this stuff that reminds me of him. That's there,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: you know, the ram that leads up to the bed,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: you know, and like all of these things that are
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: of him, and removing them feels like purging him for
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: my life. In a way, I'm not ready for yet.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: But that stuff doesn't serve a purpose anymore, right, so
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: what do you do with him? Right?
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the emotional lot atachment to things is complicated for sure. Yeah.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: My brother still has the dog bowl that he like
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: painted for the first dog that my mom had when
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: we were little kids, and it's like very horrible kid
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: paint job on the things, and he still has it
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: for his dog now, like it just floated around and
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: lasted and just was not a dog bull for a
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: long time. And now I just see it at his
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: house and it feels like this weird anachronistic snap back
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: to the way a different time, but like his current
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: dog is eating out of it, and I'm just like,
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: you know that that feels correct. Then it came around
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: like that, But it's yeah, the emotions attached to like
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: remembering the first dog and like when that bowl was
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: like not attached to its wooden base because it had
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: just come home from the firing place. Like there's just
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: all of that attached to it, and now it's in
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: a totally different house with a completely different dog and
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: like but still the same human.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: I don't have anything of my cat. I just have
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: his ashes. I still have. I still very much have
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: my cat's ashes, like never gotten rid of those. Those
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: are sticking with me. But also that that pet death
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: was protracted, like I knew it was coming. He'd been
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: sick for years, you know. The suddenness with which Timber
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: went down is the worst. I think, Like, if you
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: know what's coming, there's a level of bracing for it.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: But to have a get out of nowhere is like,
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: that's that's the you know, cruelest, the cruelest way for
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: shit to happen.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: No, No, I was like, you know, he threw up
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: in the middle of the night, and I was like, oh,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: did you drink too much water? Like are you you know,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: does does dinner? Not sitting well? What's going on? Like
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: this is not totally in his age, is not one
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: percent on heard of him to like get up and
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: kind of puke a little bit in the middle of
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: the night. But he was still sick that morning, and
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: so we got him to the vet and uh, yeah,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: I had to come home from work, and you know,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: basically by the time I got there, it was time.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: You know, it was like he did time to put
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: him down, and it was Yeah.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: That's very sudden, very sudden. Yeah, there's going to be
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: layers and jags to that emotional process.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, is that abrupt and having this and having to
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: make the call, you know, as well as something I
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: haven't had to do before either.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: So yeah, again with my cat, it was like, well,
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: we knew that was coming. We were going to have
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: to make the call at some point, because that's how
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: this illness works, like.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Right, And that's hard in its own way, right, Like
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: with me, it was very much there was a black
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: and light flip was switched. This has happened. There's no
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: coming back from it without high risk, high expense, low
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: prospect surgery.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Which is just that's that's a no go really, I
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: mean yeah, technically feasible is not is not kind or
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: humane or practical.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Right right, you know. And one of the things about
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: Timber is, I you know, I don't know how old
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: he was when I got him. You know, he was
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: I had him for all almost ten years, just a
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: few months short of ten years, assuming he was at
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: least one when I got him, But he could have
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: been up to four or five when I got him,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: based on his teeth and dental records and what the
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: things I heard. So you know was he anywhere? For
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: he could have been anywhere from eleven to fourteen, fifteen
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: years old, and I just have no way of knowing. Yeah, anyway,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: that's that update. That's that update. Feel free to edit
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: that down to something that's reasonable.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And with that, I think we're going to roll
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: the intro music and have the episode and stay tuned
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: for after the episode for more updates that are going
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: to get recorded right now, because we have lots of updates.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: You want to get back to the book. All of
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: this is getting edited out because it's all just nonsense.
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: Did you want to start the book because we haven't
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: even gotten close to it?
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, So actually looking at the book, the epitaph
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: at the beginning, it's not even an epithath. It's just
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: like it did again. This feels very Sanderson not knowing
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: what he's doing. He's trying, and it's like this is
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: not it, my dude, Like I get it. The line
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: the dead are beginning to walk and some see them.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: That line slaps. Yeah, that line slaps. Just that line
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: alone would have been perfect, But the rest of it,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't know, I don't know.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know even the last line, like if it
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: had been from a prophecy, right, these are the days
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: the rain upon us, beneath the dead sky, crushing us
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: with their fury until is when we beg let it begin.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: That's fine as a prophecy, right, that there will be
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: this thing that like basically the world is crushing down
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: on us until we beg it. Like, let's just start
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: the last battle because otherwise we're gonna fucking die.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: I think there even is one with that energy about
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: the dragon back in book six that has that exact energy. Yeah,
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: that's right, right.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: But like this is just some journal of somebody writing,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: like who's in the middle of all this, Who's like,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: oh man, this sucks. Like this is just someone complaining,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: That's all it is. It's just someone complaining in a
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: journal and.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Like as almost like as a wiki summary of the book.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: Ravens and crows, rats, mists and clouds, insects and corruption,
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: strange events and odd occurrences, the ordinary, twisted and strange, wonders.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Wonders, the wonders, Oh my god, the wonders right there.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: That feels like a carnival bark. Yeah, exactly there has
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: come see my Circus Freaks and my Dragon Reborn and
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: my Lucky Man and my wolf Boy, right like wonders, Yeah, no,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: I don't. I don't like that line. That's that again.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: This is where like about two thirds of it's okay
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: if it was framed differently. The first third sucks, yeah,
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: which very accurately describes Brandon's three books.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: And I think also like in a way it's kind
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: of a little fourth wall breaking that this is how
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: it starts, is like it's a journal entry of some
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: random guy going which is Brandon. That is Brandon as
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: he's coming into this, as he's coming into writing this
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: and finishing the books, and his experience of essentially learning
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: what happens by writing it, like he never expected that
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: when he was a fan of the book. So it's
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: like it's honest in a way.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: It's like, in a way it does. It feels like
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: him after doing like that year of research where we
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: had to sit down and read the books and plan
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: all this out and talk to Harriet and get drafted,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: and he finally sat down and said, these have been
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: our days, so let it begin, and he starts typing
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: the fucking novel for the first time, right, Like, that's
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: what it feels like, is him being like I finally
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: get to sit down after because it was it was
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: a many year gap, right, because it was it was
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: several years after he died, before Brandon was picked, and
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: then you know, he needed like a year to do
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: his research and then start writing, and like the pipeline was,
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: they had to rebuild the pipeline from scratch. So yeah,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: it was quite quite a gap. I haven't looked up
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: the exact years in a while, and I don't have
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: off the top of my head, but I want to
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: say six years between the two books.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: It was a lot. It was a lot. Yeah, So
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: so yeah, I forgive this front passage for being a
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: little bit holy shit energy, because like, how else do
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: you open this book? You know, like truly in his position,
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: how else does this book open other than uh uh,
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: I guess, I guess we're here now jumping off the cliff.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: Now, okay, Athlon says two thousand and five, two thousand
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: and nine, which is less than I remember. But that's
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: a four year gap. God, it's incredible that that was
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: a long gap. I guess it was, though it felt
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: like a long time.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Well, the uncertainty factor at least doubles how long every
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: year takes when you don't know, Like once you know
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: and you actually have a real countdown, it's a different.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: Time passes differently.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: No, and the two books after this both because they
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: were kind of written together or only came out I
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: think maybe even less than a year after this book
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: came out. I remember them Bam bam bam one two
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: three very quickly. So, and with this book, it wasn't perfect,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: but I was reassured that I was getting the ending
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: that was deserved by the end of this book. Right,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: as always, I will I have complaints, so I have complaints.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: I will continue to complain. I reserve the right to
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: complain about this book at length. But I want to
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: preface that with I don't think there's another author who
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: could have picked it up after Jordan died and done
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: what Sanderson did as well as he did.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, for sure. This book was definitely a
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: mix of oh maybe you're a very young, young, scared
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: writer who's doing his best, and also, oh shit, I
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: think we're going to get this, like we're doing this,
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: like this is this is happening. We're going to get
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: the end. Like, yeah, I was very quickly early on
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: in this book, I was reassured that like, this world
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: was in safe hands and that we were going to
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: be fine. Like it did not take many chapters for
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: me to be comforted.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: And I guess I should read us into the twelfth
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: book of the Wheel of Time.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, here we fucking go.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: What the storm means? Reynold fan Weir sat on his porch,
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: warming the sturdy black oak chair crafted for him by
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: his grandsons two years before. He stared northward at the
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: black and silver clouds. He'd never seen their like before.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: They blanketed the entire horizon to the north, high in
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: the sky. They weren't gray, they were black and silver,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: dark rumbling thunderheads as dark as a root cellar at midnight,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: with striking silver lightning breaking between them, flashes of lightning
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: that gave off no sound. The air was thick, thick
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: with the scents of dust and dirt of dry leaves
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: and rain that refused to fall. Spring had come, and
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: yet his crops didn't grow. Not a sprout had dared
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: poke through the earth. He rose slowly from his chair,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: wood creaking chair, rocking softly behind him and walked up
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: to the edge of the porch. He chewed on his pipe.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Though its fire had gone out, he couldn't be bothered
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: to re light it. Those clouds transfixed him. They were
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: so black, like the smoke of a bushfire, only no
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: bushfire smoke ever rose that high up in the air.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: And what to make of silver clouds bulging between the
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: black ones, like places where polished steel shone through metal
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: crushed with soot.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Clouds are thick.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Clouds are thick. Sorry, I hang out was never a
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: little too long.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: That is what happens when you get married.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my god, can I tell you we are
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: at this point, you know, about to come up on
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: four years together and having a little bit of trouble
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: with Hey, can you get me the and I have
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: whatever it is she wants me to get in my hand,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: the hand me the thing, and I'm already like you know.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: It's the level of brain like or we'll we'll someone
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: ask a question and we will respond in stereo with
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: the same answer to that person. At the same time,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: it's becoming a problem. Our brains are connected on a
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: level that I'm I'm worried, I'm worried. I'm worried about
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: my codependence, and I'm sure it gets worse. I'm sure
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: it gets worse.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: Speaking from sixteen years of marriage.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Yea, I am.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: I am the square of that. Yes, yes, the level
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: of psychic brain synchronization. You end up not even talking
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: sometimes because everything is just you just know it already,
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: and then you just make like random, weird like deep
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: cut jokes every now and then because everything else was
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: happening silently. Like No, it gets weird. It gets weird,
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: it stays weird. You have not seen weird. It just
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: gets weirder.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: But related news, I got my new license today, so
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: I'm updated to the new last name that I changed
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: when we both got married. We combined our last names
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: into something unique and new. If you hadn't heard that already.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: And today I got my so security car like a
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: month ago, and I finally got my license today. So
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: now I just need to get an updated passport and
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: I am as official as I think I can get.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: It's awesome, all right.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: So these clouds, these clouds, yes, let's talk about these clouds.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: There's currently a bomb cyclone bearing down on us in
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: the Pacific Northwest. Let's talk about these rapidly approaching clouds.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: So where my mind immediately goes is the dragon is
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: one with the land, and the land is one with
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: the dragon. And what we see is what's going on
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: in his head with the taint and the protection. Right,
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: you have these silver line you know, I mean, do
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: I think Brandon is making a fucking pund and talking
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: about the silver lining of the clouds? Yes? Yes, I do, yes, Yes, Okay,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: I'm moving beyond that. Sure, I appreciate it, moving beyond it, Okay,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: the silver lining. But what we're seeing is really like
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: in Rand's brain is the fight between the very thin
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: pieces of silver that are Rand's personality and the black
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: taint that is trying to take him over. That is
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: also reflected in the land. Not combined with the fact
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: that that like distance is failing, reality is breaking down
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: right these clouds or wherever they want to be at
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: any given time. I think it explains a lot of
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: the weird effects we're seeing.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: We are presumably relatively close to the physical manifestation of
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: the bore compared to everywhere else in the world, So
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: shit gets weird there first, both temporally and geographically. That, yep, Yep, yeah,
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: I agree with all that. I also always have seen
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: it as like a metaphor for the rising energy of
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: like the land is also fighting back, right, the people
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: are deciding that they need to fight back, that they're
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: going to beat their plowshares into swords. Like there's this
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: right rising rolling tide of people all heading north to
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: face this war. And like he's kind of far north right,
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: so it is coming to him and he's getting swept
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: up by it as is already a big thing. And
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: that's what we see happen in this POV, right, is
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: he hears this thunder off in the distance, and then
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: he starts making the thunder himself. Right by the end,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: he is pounding on his anvil and that is contributing
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: to like the sound of the storm and merging with it.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: And it's like that's what he was hearing was the
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: onset of the war, and he is becoming part of it.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: But I think that that is perfectly ties in with
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: what you're saying, because the dragon is one with the land.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: The land is one with the dragon. The land is
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: not a passive participit participate in this relationship. The land
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: is very much an active peace of this battle and
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: the people, especially like the farmers. Right, this is a
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: guy who's like I have worked this soil every day
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: for my entire life. I've been farming this farm for
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: forty years. Like I know the land. I know that
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: the things should have sprouted. This is the land fighting back.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: This is the land saying okay. Here is my avataric
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: expression as a person with all of his resources, his knowledge,
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: his crop, his plants, his family. We're fighting back. We
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: are the land is fighting back through him.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: And I go back to book to the Great Hunt,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: when he's in the sky and the armies are sort
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: of when he searches forward in his fight against the Shamael,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: the army search forward. And when he is pushed back,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: the armies are pushed back. And you know, well, which,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: where's the causal relationship? There are the armies affecting him?
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: Is he affecting the armies? Right? They're linked, but it's
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: very much a quantum uncertainty linkage, right, where like one
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily control the other right away, it's just that
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: they're linked together, right.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: And it's like in each individual soldier is not being
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: controlled by Rand. Each of them made the choice to
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: be there at that day, that place. Right to use
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: a book six callback, Every individual pixel of that portrait
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: shows up as a person with free will, and yet
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: the end result is this thing where like rand is
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: fighting a battle where the battle's fate depends on him,
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: and he depends on it. But each of the people
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: making that battle possible came, you know, for their own reasons, right,
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: just as we see this farmer getting recruited, but also
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: we see the inevitability of the fact that, of course
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: he was going to make this choice.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: And by the way, there's a line I have to
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: call out here. He chewed on his pipe though it's
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: fire had gone out, he couldn't be bothered to relight it.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: First fucking paragraph pipe lighting. L Brandon talks about pipe lighting.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, oh yeah. And of course Robert Jordan, big
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: pipe collector, big pipe loveer, pipe collector, so very deliberate,
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: very deliberate, love that love that book end, love that
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: book end.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: And also just here, the fire had gone out really
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: does feel like again, first paragraph feels a little bit
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: like a reference to Jordan. Right, the fire had gone out,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: and he couldn't, you know, like you can't relight it.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: And nothing has come for years. There should have been
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: something by now.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the hopelessness, the deadness, and then the sparking of hope.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: Oh no, he's totally.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: Saying, Yeah, I may be reading into it a bit,
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: but the pipe is too significant.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: I've never noticed that, but I see it. I see it.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the pipe is just so significant when it
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: comes to both Jordan and this story and the ending
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: and all of that. Like anytime I see pipe in
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: my mind immediately like of course goes to the pipe lighting.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: Right, No, I think that's very on brand. I mean,
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: that is very consistent. Robert Jordan would put that kind
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: of cookie trail, breadcrumb trail down for us.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: And if I have to say, the lighting of the pipe,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: if it represents anything, it is this. The story was extinguished,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: and by the end of Memory of Light, Brandon has
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: ReLit it and finished the circle. And like basically the
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: pipe is re lit, and but right now it's out
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: at the beginning of this story, at the beginning of
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: writing this story.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, god, yes, yes, yeah, And how does he relight it?
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: No one fucking knows. It's magic, okay, works.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: He relt it by writing these three books and finishing
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: the story that Brandon that Jordan couldn't.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: And to quote Michael Livingstone, magic is real.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Magic is real.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like it is magic because magic is real, Like
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: one more do you want science? It's magic.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: So as we have no real theory as to why
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: he can, you know, light the pipe other than he
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: controls the pattern now because he did the whole fight
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: with the dark one where you can control the pattern,
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: and that's a new magic system. We can get into
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: that when we get there. We'll talk about it. But
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: like from a very real, practical meta standpoint, that's kind
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: of how I feel the lighting of the pipe. What
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: it means to me, right is the finishing of the
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: series by another author.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: I love that next paragraph.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: We've been gone for a while, give us a little slack.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: We've got a lot to say.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: Well, And I mean, this is one of those self
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: contained stories in a single POV, it's the entire story.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: We never see this character again, Like there's a lot
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: packed into every paragraph, like or into each paragraph, like
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: there's just there's so much here. So yeah, we get
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: lots of descriptions of clouds, we get lots of descriptions
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: of thunder. Everything is whibbley, wobbly timey, whymy he's thinking,
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: he's thinking, this is very very slog esque in its
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: look around levels of things. But then at long last
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: something happens, and it is the neighbor, the smith Thulin
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: showing up and being like, here is the mind virus,
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: here is the bat signal, here's the bat signal. Basically,
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: he says, I've buried you know, me and my wife
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: have set aside our tools for you and your wife
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: to scavenge if we don't come back from the war.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: By the way, you might want to do the same. Actually,
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: instead of staying behind, you might want to come with.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: Like it all happens very much like some sort of
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: magical cordyceps, just like grabbing people.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: And this there's some really good life of stuff here. Right,
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: there's some fun quotes like twenty five years Thulen's wife,
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: but Reynolds still thought of Glinda as that southern girl, right,
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: which I if you've ever lived in the South, you
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: know that no matter how long it's been since you
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: moved there, if you're from the North, you're always that
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: northern boy or that northern girl, doesn't matter how long
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: you've been there. Right, Like they know they know, and
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: so like there's some fun little like world building stuff
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: like that that's that's fun to read, and stuff about
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: the smith and hammer and creating a sword and how
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: how he named the hill nearby himself, and like, I
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: just I kind of like the character and the time
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: that Sanderson takes to just sort of write a farmer,
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: a borderland farmer character and give him a couple of
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: pages of backstory and detail. It feels refreshing. After again,
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: you say it's sort of sloggy, but I feel like
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: in the slog we just didn't even get their backstory.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: We got a name and a title, and then like
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: there were twenty of them and like this guy I remember,
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, no, oh for sure.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: It's it's not slogging in a bad way. It's just
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: like the level of granular detail is like whoa.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: Yea, there's a lot like yeah, yeah, you know exactly
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: everything about this dude. Yeah, totally totally.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: But also you know, it's been home ever many years
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: since we last had a book, and it's a new author.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: Like yeah, let's start slow. Let's start real real slow
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: with counting exactly how many fence posts border this guy's property,
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: Like let's just really ease into it. There's there's just
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: one line.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: There's no dress description, but you know apron maybe.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: Well there's there's one line though that I really liked
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: in all of this. Were there really any old man's trades? Yea,
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: that there's all this character building within that one line
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: just really catalyzes it all. Like, Wow, that's what it
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: means to be a borderlander farmer? Is you just work
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: until you die, Like not in like a slavery sort
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: of way, but just in a like this is country.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: We've been hearing about borderland farmers and borderland nations meeting
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: a few characters from the high and mighty circles, but
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: we've never actually seen the like salt of the earth,
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: gritty regular guys. And now here we are, and it's
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: this guy being like, huh, there's really no jobs for
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: old men here, and it's like, wow, that's that's pretty
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: far from civilization if you're looking at like there's nothing
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: for old men to like do, Like you're just gonna
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: do this until you can't physically anymore, and then.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: What I think the ideas old men don't survive, Yeah, right,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: Like there's no such thing as the job for all men,
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: because there's no such thing as old men, because like,
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: you die.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: That's rough, that's some hard we're frontiers levels shit like Borderlanders.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, we jump between this and then Tylee, who's like,
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: oh my god, trolics exist a slightly different privilege, shall
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: we say, between those two people and their experience growing up.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: Talk about that Southern girl entirely. She's from like Baja California, like,
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: has never seen a snowflake in her life.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Oh, she's like, yeah, I like palm trees. What are these?
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: What are these gnarly asked oak things that you've got
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: around here? Freaking pine trees? What the fuck is that?
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it's a yeah, it's good good study character,
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: giving us a sense of the Borderlanders. And you know,
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: he's got his his farm hands who aren't his biological
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: sons but are essentially his sons. Like we get a
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: strong sense of Borderlanders are all about like a chosen
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: family meritocracy kind of structure in their in their familial ties.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: They're like, no, if you can work, you're good. And
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: he's not bitter towards his sons also, which again is like,
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: oh borderlanders are cool. He's like, yeah, my son's didn't
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: follow me into farming, but like whatever, it's fine.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: What are they soldiers? I don't remember.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: No, it just says they had followed different trades. But
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: the men do work the farm with him aren't as
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: close as sons. So I'm like, it's just nice to
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: see that chosen family representation. I was like, No, whoever
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: wants to work the farm with me gets to like
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: work the farm with me and be be that part
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: of my family.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: And we have this phrase it's repeated just over and
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: over and over again, which I think we first heard
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: Ninives say, right, the storm is coming.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah, the storm is coming. Is is
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: that book one ninety or does it come slightly later?
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: But it's definitely Ninive.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: I want to say yeah, because well, remember, because she
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: feels I think she's feeling the trollycs because she can
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: channel and so she has a sense to sense shadows
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: spawn and I think one of the Okay, soon just
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: put balloons up around me, which is really random because
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: I was gesturing with my hands and apparently whatever gesture
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: I made is balloons, which totally broke my train of thought.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: What was I sensing trollocks?
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Right? Nieve sensing trollocks because she's a channeller, and she
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: talked about the storm coming, but there was always a
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: bit I think that was one of those I the
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: World isms where he didn't really he kind of mixed
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: up her ability to sense trollis with her ability to
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: predict like the wind and read the wind, and how
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: that kind of translates into predicting bad events happening soon,
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: and how that became her storm sense got sort of
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: transposed to a trouble sense, like a storm became a metaphor,
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: and then she was able to sense the future. So
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: it's which I think is related to foretelling.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: Honestly, if your naive levels are powerful, you just kind
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: of get the edges of foretelling constantly. Yeah, yeah, that
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: seems about right for Nineve's level of nineving. I love her,
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: but like she just sort of gets things because she's niaive.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: Well, I think that that's something that's common to wise women, right.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: True, that is one of the attributes you need to
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: be one of those types of people, one of those archetypes. Yeah,
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: that's true. But yeah, glenha clearly has some kind of
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: foretelling dream touched touched into the world clued into the
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: ether sort of thing going on, because you know, there's
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: clearly some communication happening between the women at a different
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: level than the men, right. I feel like this is
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: another one of those like, oh, women know things, and
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: men have their ways of communicating, but women are like,
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: have this other way of knowing things.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: Well, I think it's the thing that they wouldn't give up.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: And so, for example, the blacksmith would never give up
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: his anvil. He wouldn't bury his anvil unless he wasn't
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: planning on coming back for a long time. So that's
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: the thing that sort of jolts Renald right into believing.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean anything to the life. She's like, oh, yeah,
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: anvil is buried, whatever, whatever. But as soon as she
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: hears that the copper bottom pots are polished up and
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: she can have them, she's like, oh if she if
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: I can have those, the only reason I could have
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: those is if she's never planning on coming back.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's just it's yeah, the men communicate with
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: one thing and the women communicate with another thing. And
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: also I feel like there's some sort of like the
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: way that she looks north. You know, I'm just like,
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: so she's been having a feeling that she hasn't been
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: able to talk with her husband about.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: Her and like this, absolutely, this is.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: Tying all of those dots together for her all at once.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: And it's just like, so everyone's been feeling this and
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: no one's been talking about it, and then it just
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: takes one, right, it just takes one person deciding no,
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: I'm going north, and then they spark it in others
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: and it just catalyzes the whole population to be like, oh,
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: now's the time, let's go. I mean, and this is land, right,
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: this is nive putting land at the far end of
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: the borderlands. And first there was one and then one
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: becomes two and so on, and like this is the
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: land being like, all right, so the king did his thing,
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: so we gotta like everyone else, let's.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: Go get in line.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: And also I just think that, you know, back back
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: to the epigraph at the beginning, the world is falling
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: apart right now, is growing We're like, we need to
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: go fight this war now because if we don't, we
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: will die of starvation. That we have no more time
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: to wait for the last battle. The dark One needs
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: to be defeated, his mark, his touch on the land
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: is killing us and there's nothing we can do about
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: that except go north. You can't stay here and fight
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: the Dark One no matter. And that's I think his
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: how hard he's worked on the garden, how much you know,
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: everything's dead, the sprouts aren't coming up. Like he's like,
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: we have done everything we can to make this land
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: thrive and it's dying anyway. Your hoes do no good.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: It's time to straighten them out, make them spears, and
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: go fucking kill some Trolics because that's the only thing
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: that is going to help your land regrow at this point,
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: Like this is what we do as farmers.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which is I mean, it's it's a hard, hard
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: thing to understand how there could be some metaphorical, metaphysical
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: existential evil that you can hit with the sword hard
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: enough that your plants will grow again. It's sort of
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: tortured logic.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: But like you know, but not in this world. You
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: have Trolics exist, right, you have shadow spawn that that
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: were created by the Dark One. Who is he trying
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: to physically destroy the world, And like, yes, the Dragon
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: needs to do his thing and go fight the Dark One, right,
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: Like we can't do that. But in the meantime, like
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: there's there's some fades coming over that hill, and we
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: got to stick something sharp in their face. So go
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: make something sharp that you can stick in their face,
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: right and pull them off. I'm out with.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's uh, it's wild. It's a wild world
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: to live in.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right right, and borderlanders know it right there. They
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: are not in any way shocked that there are shadow
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: spawn and and evil that needs killing, right, They're not,
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: like they don't have to be like so you know,
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: there's these things called fades, like conversation, right, like like
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: you need something to pull a writer? What kind of writer?
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: They don't need to say.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: Right right, yeah, yeah, And then we get this just
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: absolutely heartrending, beautiful passage of him literally beating his plowshares
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: into swords, which just like, I mean, he doesn't literally
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: use the phrase, but like I mean, if you're remotely
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: familiar with Christian anything, like you can see the metaphor
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: being reversed here, right, Like this is a time of war,
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: This is a time of sacrifice and of death and
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: of bad things. Like things are going to get worse
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: before they get better. Things might get better. We hope
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: they get better. But right now, worse, worse is very
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: much where we're going. We don't get to have farming implements.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: We are risking our ability to grow food in order
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: to enact short term violence in the hopes that we
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: will somehow figure out how to grow food again on
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: the other side, Like oof, that is that is the
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: most powerful sacrifice that like a farmer can make, right,
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: Like that's next to your sea. It's your tools, Like
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: there's nothing if you don't have those, but there's nothing
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: with them. So stabby time you.
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: See him reach for the third best and change his
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: mind and actually use the first best and just like
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: the regret there, but like that's that's what you gotta
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: do because you don't want you know, God forbid it
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: breaks in.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: Battle, right Like it's this is going to be your
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: life saving weapon? Like do you really want your third
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: best tool as your life saving weapon?
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: No?
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: Like this this is this is chip, this is all in.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: This is all in on the table, all cards on
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: the table, all chips down.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: Like also you're probably not coming back, Like why why
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: save it if you're not going to be using it?
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you're you're just talking about how you're
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: an old man that needs to retire from the farming
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: business like which you apparently isn't a thing. So, yeah,
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: you're probably not going to live out the war. I mean,
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: probably he will because Tavern and when the eye of
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: the author passes over you, it's it's harder to die.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: But like, we also never see him, and so dude.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: I don't know about that. The eye of this particular
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: author kills pretty indiscriminately. I mean, I don't want to
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: spoil too much because I know you haven't read a
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: lot of his books. But he has no problem killing
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: off main characters. He is h He's fine to create
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: some more main characters and throw them in there. Also,
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: his characters don't stay dead very well, so you know
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: there's that too.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a lot of other books to read before.
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: That.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: If you're gonna kill characters, at least kill them dead well.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: I really will reassure the audience that I've read all
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: of Brandon Sanderson's catalog many times, and so I will
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: make references to it for the rest of the three books,
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: and Radio will just shake her head and tell me
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: how much better she is than the rest of us
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: for not reading any Brandon Sanderson you said it, not me,
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: you thought it, you meant it.
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: Anyway, moving on, I'm returning from that ad break, so well, Yeah.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: He also convinces one of his farm hand son people
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: that this is the way without really giving any good explanation,
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: which I find very irritating because he's having all these
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: coherent thoughts on the inside, and he knows how annoying
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: it is to not be told anything coherent by his friend,
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: like literally five minutes ago, but he immediately goes full
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: enigma and it's just like, do what I say, child,
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: who was also a thirty something year old man. I'm
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: just like, you're having enough Cogin's inside your POV that
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: I feel like you could be slightly more informational to
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: your dude.
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: But I feel like this is the male coded like
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: we all know what's going on, nod and gesture and
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: everyone understands, let's go right, like, but the other guy
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: does question. So yeah, I don't know.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: I question the utility of that mode of communication exhibit
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: the world. So I don't know that that's what's going
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: on here, and I don't know that it's a good
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: thing even if it is. What's going on.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: So recently, learned. And I'm not a good representative of
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: that sort of understanding of that sort of conversation either,
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: So I'm not gonna pretend that I know.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're over here, like, yeah, sports ball, put the
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: ball in the sports place. That's about how well we
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: both understand any of this. Yeah, so it works. The
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: dudeobeys it's fine.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: Also back to when he's talking to his wife. There's
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: the thing with the eggs. So she's got eggs in
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: her skirt, right, and she gets told about the pots
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: and she starts to drop the eggs because she's in shock,
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: and then she pulls it together and like you know,
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: saves most of the eggs, and she pulls up the
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: edge of her apron, preserving the majority of the eggs.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: She didn't spare a glance for those that had fallen, Like,
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: how is that line not indicative of the emotional detachment
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: necessary to get through the coming war. Don't even think
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: about everyone that's gonna die. Just do what you gotta do,
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: preserve what you can preserve, and do not mourn what
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: is already dead.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: The losses, Yeah, don't even say those some cost fallacy.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: Not with these guys.
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: Nope, don't regret what's happened, just move forward, just preserve
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: what you can and that's all that matters, which is
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: like hardcore and also deeply practical.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: Right, But this metaphor is strewn throughout this whole prologue,
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: so it's pretty well like this is I got to say,
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: reading it now, I'm impressed with the writing of it.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: It's definitely again not a Jordan style, right, but it
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: does have layers, It does have a lot of metaphor.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: I kind of wish we'd have a follow up to
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: where the characters end up, but you know, that's okay,
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: we didn't.
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: And it also is one of those sections where you
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: get a feel for how Brandon Sanderson really is going
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: to rub your face in a metaphor until it.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: Hurts, yeah, because he literally has.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: This thing where like, Okay, Robert Jordan would not have
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: had the peel seemed to form words like someone muttering
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: in the back of his head, the same phrase over
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: and over, the storm is coming, the storm is coming.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: Robert Jordan would have just said, as he worked, the
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: peels seem to form words muttering in his head, and Finn,
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: that's it. But no, Sanderson has to be like you know,
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: like thunder that says like the words that the prophetic
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: ladies keep saying through the books, Like that's what the
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: thunder says in his head, is the prophetic words. You
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: know what the prophetic words are. It's he's really giving
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: you a taste for how he's not going to let
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: anything go understated in that way. If you hear weird
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: bumping noises on my track, it's because my husband is
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: doing home owner shit on the outside of our house
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: because my window leaks and it's going to rain really
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: really hard, so trying to put yet more rain proofing
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: goo in it.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's like four separate mentions of the storm is
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: coming in this chapter.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's just really heavy handed and it will
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: not let up because that is Brandon Sanderson's style, and
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: it's good to be let to know that that's what's
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: going to happen right off the bat, so that way
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: we can get grossy about it and then just move on,
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: make our peace and move on. It's just how it's
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: going to be. For three bucks, we get two shan
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: Chan povs today, and we're gonna start with the ones
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: that are actually relevant to our main plot with Rand,
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: and then we will move on to the common soldier
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: from Baja California who has never seen a tarlock before.
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: Jamaica Mohamma.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: Watching the bow legged soldier's tie, Tanara's blanket wrapped body
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: across a saddle, Palendra fought the desire to begin weeping again,
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: the desire to vomit. She was senior and had to
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: maintain some composure if she expected the other four surviving
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: suldom to do so. She tried to tell herself she
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: had seen worse battles were more than a single soul,
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: doom had died one demane. That brought her too near
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: thinking of exactly how Tenara and her Mary met their deaths, though,
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: and her mind shied from it.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: So this is the aftermath of Rand losing his hands,
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: samrog being revealed, her throwing the fireball, him blocking it. Right,
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: These are the and then he struck back and killed
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: the two soldans, right, that's what she's thinking of.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly they were killed by a man channeling, right,
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: not not just any battlefield, like a man channeling all
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: that horrible stuff plus dragon reborn, scary, scary. Yeah, this
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: is like maybe an hour later maybe.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: Right, right, this is just directly afterwards. So and she
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: is opening basically doing the chivalrous, chivalrous, chivalrous thank you,
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: thank you, and returning them home through a gateway like
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: here you go, like you're in no danger. I would
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: like a meeting, but he is so threatening in his
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: demeanor that everything he does feels like a threat. Oh,
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: I mean it kind of is.
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he doesn't not mean it is, right, it's being
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: nice threateningly.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's he's he's very much scary rand here.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, first of all, however hard he thinks
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: he is. He's in shock from having lost a hand,
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: like and having his eyeballs toasted, you know, like he
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: can't even see properly right now, right?
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Why why do they keep describing them as these
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: cold marbles? Maybe because he's not looking right at you
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: because he can't really see very well, so it kind
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: of looks like he's staring off to the side, which
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: makes his whole face cold.
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, it's and he's not like trying to
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: intimidate these individuals, right, because he sees them as the
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: nothings that they are, right, Like, none of them were
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: pulling the strings, none of them have any power. He's like, oh,
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: Samarak had a screen of plausible deniability dupes all around her.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: She had a whole like performance built with people to
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: trick me. But the people themselves are all entirely just
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: building blocks in a Semarog plot, like if I have Semarog,
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: then the rest of it is moot. So he doesn't
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: need to intimidate these people. So he's not trying to.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: He just is anyway, because he's the dragon reborn in
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: darth Rand phase. Like, it doesn't get any darker than this.
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: He can't be nice to save his life. But yeah,
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: he is doing the courteous thing in that he's not
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: killing anyone in retribution. He's not even taking hostages, and
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: he is sending them home with horses and with a
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: missive just to their leaders to please continue the negotiations
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: for the meeting. He's basically treating Semarag like a speed
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: bump and saying, anyway, I still like a meeting. Now
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: that we've dealt with that, can we get back to
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: the important issues.
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: Meanwhile, phil Andre, Philandre, She's Slendra, thank you, is sitting
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: here thinking, yeah, the dott of the Nine Moons never
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: knew about this. This was all made up, like I
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: can't go to her and be like, so at the
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: meeting with the Dragon Reborn that you knew nothing about,
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: I want to he set up another meeting with him.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: So what do you think about that?
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: Oh, by the way, the Forsaken was there.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And she's like, logistically, that's the message I have
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: to deliver. He's like, I'm the Dragon Reborn and I
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: don't care. The reality is going to shape itself to
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: my will or I will have no option but to
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: cease existing. So and she like in her mind like
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: immediately crumples under the weight of his tiberan and is like,
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: I'll figure it out. I'll figure it out. I'm gonna
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: figure it out. It's fine, like whatever, I'll do it.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: Although she does delay and that she.
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: Plans to delay, and I think she does succeed. Yea,
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: and how many lives? How many lives for your cowardice,
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: my bitch, I actually have no idea. I don't quite
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: know what the timing of that would be, but like
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: it's messy.
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: She doesn't well chapter let's you know, hold on chapter
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: nineteen two one, so it's actually pretty quick, I guess.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: By chapter nineteen she tells two on.
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: Which doesn't really mean anything in terms of in book time.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: That could be today or in two weeks.
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: Like, no, we'll have to see, let me see, let
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: me see if I can get there. And uh so
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: just the day after her return, so it feels like
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: as soon as she gets back.
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but the timeline is already getting kind of wobbily.
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, timeline is super wobbly. I'm not even going
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: to try and yeah, yeah, totally.
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: So she thinks about delaying, we don't know how much
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: she does or doesn't delay, and we don't know what
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: effects that does or doesn't have on anything. Doesn't seem
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: to be important if that feels like an actual red herring,
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: not like a lost thread, but a deliberate red herring.
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: Fair enough.
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it just, you know, again shows us the spineless, sniveling,
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: cowardice of the hyper individualistic and not even individualistic but
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: to cover your ass pyramid shape yeah MLM energy that
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: the entire Seancha Empire has. You really get to see
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: how coward, how spineless it makes people that she's like, well,
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: even in the case of like cosmic evil attempting to
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: take out the literal savior of the world, on the
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: brink of actual Ragnarok, I should figure out how to
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: cover my own ass at work with my boss. I'm
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: just like, wow, Sean Chan, you suck as a person.
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: You have no moral character as a nation.
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: It's one of the reasons I don't believe when he's
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: constantly saying they're so effective, they're so efficient, I'm like, no,
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: because everybody's covering their own ass. There's no way. There's
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: no way they're that efficient and that good and that
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: like they can learn from mistakes, but no, because they
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: punish mistakes terribly. Like, I don't understand. It seems like
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: the way they treat their their soldiers and the way
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: they talk about how they how the army functions are
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: are vastly, vastly different, and I don't understand how you
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: can have both.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: Well, we live in a world where there's a myth
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: that the fascist state makes the trains run on time,
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: which is actually not true. Historically, the trains don't particularly
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: run on time.
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's fine. You just change the
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: clocks to when the trains arrive. That's how you make
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: them run on time. It's very easy in a fascist
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: state because you just clange the clocks and tell everybody
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: the clocks have changed. Yeah, and everyone goes yeah, and
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: you go okay, good then and then.
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: You have the Russian Federation falling apart because they can't
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: admit how bad Chernobyl is, and so all the tools
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: getting sent to them are radically under the shielding requirements
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: to actually do anything effected. Yeah, anyway, I promise no politics,
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: except when my understanding of world history is informed through
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: the lens of the books.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: There's a little interaction she watches between Ran and Ninive
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: where she wants to heal them. They don't want to
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: be healed. Rand says, nope, Ninive, you can't heal them
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: without permission. You know, consent is a thing, and Nine goes, God,
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: damn it. I don't want to give a shit about consent.
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: It's so funny. Rand, on the one hand, is like
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: right was easy to find when I only had a
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: few sheep. Now it's harder to find consent his mandatory
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: right all right on figuring out what's right without thinking
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: about it too, are like you didn't overthink the consent issue,
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: Like just apply that to the rest of your life,
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: you'll be fine. And I mean, yeah, there's shad Chan.
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: They don't. They're not your prisoners, and they don't want
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: your help. Leave them alone.
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: So Rand lets him go, saying I still want a meeting.
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go to Radomon. I'm going to stop
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: the war there, so there's no more fighting between the
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: two of us, so we can have peace, right, so
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: we can negotiate. Right, I will stop the fighting in
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: good faith, essentially, is what he's saying.
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: I thought he was threatening to annihilate their army, but
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: that makes more sense.
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: You know, I will quell the battle against your forces there. Oh,
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: I think that's I'm saying.
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: Okay, I was reading too fast. My reading comprehension was
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: suffering on that paragraph.
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: No, he yeah, if you read the first we will
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: have peace, I will see it happen. Right, that could
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: be a threat, right, like I will go there and
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: I will destroy your army until we have peace. But
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: then the next sentences, I will quell the battle against
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: your forces, not I will quell. Yeah, I'll call your forces.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. He also reiterates his very tavere and esque we
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: must have peace. Right, Filndra tries to say it, I
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: will tell them that you believe that there should be
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: peace and he's like, no, no, no, there must be peace.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: There will be peace. I'm the dragon reborn. I'm a
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: boulder rolling down a hillside. You can't stop me. Like
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: that's what he is trying to project onto Tuan, even
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: through his messenger that he's sending to her. And then
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: he gives us this very fun little little thing of like,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: now that I know that Semarag was who was infiltrating
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: your kingdom, I'm cool with you. Like you don't have
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: anyone else scary in your ranks to it will come
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: out and bite me because it was Semarog And like
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: And they have dominions that they don't overlap.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: Like you can't have so many, you can't have hornet
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: nests right next to each other, Like they have a
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: radius that they will defend fiercely. If you find one
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: yellow jacket nest on the back of your house or
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: on a tree or whatever, you know that you have
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: a radius of space in which you will not find
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: any others. You're totally cool.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: Oh so maybe you like want one in a safe
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: place that you can.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: Just like legitimately. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The house I lived
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: at when I was a kid, we had lots and
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: lots of trees and land and barns and stuff, and
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: my mom would always deliberately hunt down the cones as
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: they were building early in the spring and specifically leave
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: one like she would make it a point to knock
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: down as many as she could find, except for one
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: in a good location for like where our pathways were
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: and where we were likely to walk. She'd find one
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: that was like in a relative eddy of where we
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: wanted to be as humans, and then they would by
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: definition create safety for us in our actual high traffic areas.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: Worked quite well. We never had any serious run ins
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: despite always having a good nest to be able to
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: keep an eye on you know. So yeah, it's basically
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: that principle applied to Forsaken. They they have domain, they
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: have territory, just like what I lost.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: Was like, why an't we talking about this? Like oh that,
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: but Forsaken. I was like, oh right, yeah, Forsaken totally.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: Oh okay again, I focus on these books except when
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: it helps me understand the natural world. This is how like,
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: this is why I obsess on these books, as they
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: allowed me to put everything in the real world.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: So yeah, that's He's like semarrog would not be sharing
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: territory with any other forsakens, So like, I know, the
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: rest of you are cleared by association.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: That's all I have for her whole section, right, I
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: think like this, there's there's a lot of back and
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: forth on that again, but I think we covered all
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: the details that I wanted to cover.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's that's all we get of her. She's auldom,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: she's despicable, moving on.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: Moving on. Yeah, she's she's writing back to souldom We'll
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: see her again. Really almost in Tuon's like thoughts, she
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: thinks about how she was told by this person.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I guess. Now we get to our last
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: POV of the day, which is one of my favorites,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: just because we don't get much time with Tyler Kirgan
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: and she fucking rules and I enjoy very much getting
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: to be in her head for a minute, even if
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: it is a very short minute.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: As far as I can tell, this is her only
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: POV really.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: I guess there's a couple other scenes where she spends
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: a lot of page time doing things, and so it's
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: almost like it's not a POV of her, but like
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: we get good time with her but yeah, this is
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: her only.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: Actual povy and in parent's head as well, because like
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: parent can smell her thoughts, her emotions, so it feels
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: like we're kind of to deal her emotions, right, But
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: it's really and it's it's not. It's just it's parent's
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: head and descriptions of her right.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So yes, this is our one POV actually in
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: Tyler's head, and so I really enjoy it, even if
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: it is short and violent and she loses her best
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: cod friend in the process. I really like this povy,
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: So I'll read us in. Tylie Kirgan, Lieutenant General of
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: the Ever Victorious Army, sat her horse atop a forested
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: hilltop looking northward. Such a different place. This land was
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: her homeland. Maram Kashore was a dry island on the
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: very southeastern tip of shan Chan. The Lumma trees there
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: were straight, towering monsters with fronds sprouting from the top
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: like the hair crust of a member of the High Blood.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: The things that passed for trees in this land were gnarled, twisting,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: branching shrubs. By comparison, their limbs were like the fingers
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: of old soldiers gone arthurritic from years of holding the sword.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: What had the locals called these plants brushwood trees? So
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: odd to think that some of her ancestors might have
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: come from this place traveling with Luthair Pean drag to
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: shan Chan. I just love it so much, the little
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: tree thing, the little geography details, like she's describing palm trees.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: First of all, those are clearly palm trees.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: Well clearly palm trees. Yeah, I wrote that down to
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: and then it.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: Just it also reminds me of like, yeah, if you're
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: an American from California heading back to like Germany, like
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: what a vibe shift, Like my ancestors came from here?
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: What Like I've been to England one time. I got
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: to go to England once and it was very trippy
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: to be like, this is this is where my people
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: were for a very long time, very long time. It's trippy.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: It's really weird to think about. So she's kind of
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: having that moment because again, sean Chan is America.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the west coasts of continents tend to have similar
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: weather patterns because of the way the ocean the currents
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: work if we're in the same hemisphere. So England and
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: that area kind of had the same weather as the
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: Pacific Northwest. So I think there's the reason why you
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: feel it home up here here. It's like, oh yeah,
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: this cloudy lack of light that makes me freaking transparent.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: It's a good thing.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I am definitely descended from people who are
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: not used to having much sun exposure. This is clearly
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: but yeah, yeah, but she, and I said Tyler Kirgun,
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: sounds like she's from California just because of the trees,
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: but also to be clear, she is describing the southeastern
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: part of her continent, which would be Florida in an America.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: Mall right, but I just think that it's more like California.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: I think that Jordan's kind of flipped the continents a
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: little bit.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. He He did not feel behold into original
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: Earth geography in this last which is fine. I am
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: totally fine with that.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: We get a time stamp. It's been two weeks since
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: her fight with Yayeel with Paren right, so she's been
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: traveling back to sean Chan controlled lance in that time.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, heading back towards Abu Dhar and thinking about Paren
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: the whole time. She has like a work crush on him.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: Basically it's like, God, it was brilliant. He was driven,
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: but brilliant. But wow, I don't want to fight him.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: But I'm really glad I got to fight beside him.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: But I'm really scared because what if I do have
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: to fight him and I don't want to do that
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: because damn, he's terrifying. Fuck. Like then just that constant,
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: like cycle of thoughts over and over and over again.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And she even later has this incredible thought, we
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: can't afford to be fighting these people, right, like because
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: of her experience with Parent, because Parent's entire tevere and
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: energy is to draw people into wanting to follow him.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: Like she is infected with the idea that we got
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: to be allies with these people. We are losing out
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: on so much by not being allied with these people,
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: especially if like whatever weird vibe in the air comes
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: to pass. Like she doesn't know about trols, but like
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: everyone knows that the apocalypse is coming on some level.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: Which is why I really really wanted there to be
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: a scene of her supporting Matt and like arguing to
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: come back, and like there was an opportunity to do
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: that really easily in the books, and he just didn't,
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: and it made me kind of sad that there was
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: no Hi Lee working with Paren, leading to the sean
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: Chan supporting Matt in the last battle, Like, come on,
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: give me some of that. You set it up so
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: nicely and then just tylie nothing. She's like fight she is.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: She's on the battlefield fighting the Sharan's right, like, that's
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: when we see her, like the when the sean Chan return.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: She does have a moment where she does tell Tuon
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: that she thinks that everyone should be making allyship. She
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: does have that moment, but it is not nearly as
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 2: high energy or impactful it could have. We could have
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: had a scene where she actually was like actively shouting
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: over a strategy table at other generals on Matt's behalf
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: because Paren, like it's so set up. There's another scene
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: that even further sets this up. Paren made such an
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: impression on her, and there could have been so much
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: good story. It's okay, we'll just write the fanfick and
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: insert it ourselves. No one will notice. It was so
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: much necessary to be there.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: Mishimah rolls up, rolls rolls up, rides up.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah he rolls up on his.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: H yeah no he which is you know, say goodbye
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: to me, Shima. This is his final chapter.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: He goes out in such a fun way though, like visually,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: like it's such a like classic physical it's not comedy
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: but like horror. Yeah, the silent death, the surprise death. Like,
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: he goes out good. He goes out good.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: If you want to talk about the show, right, the
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: arrow through the neck or the dagger through the neck, right,
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, how many people go that's like the class.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: The show does that so many fucking times in season one.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: Well, and every show ever does it all the time.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: That's why this scene was written the way it was,
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: because Brandon Sanderson writes TV and anime scenes.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: Like he does. Yeah, yeah, he very much writes visual visually.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like I can see this scene because I
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: have seen this scene so many times. I have seen
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: this scene so many times, and it is beautifully executed.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: And yes, Mishima, unfortunately is our fall guy for this scene.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: Let's cast let's cast him a shon. It's Gushan pins Mishima.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: He would like that, right, so sure?
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: Why not? Why not? So?
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah? T rolls up and they they talk about the
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: battle a bit, and through this interaction we get clued
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: into the fact that Tiley has been raised to the
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: High Blood, which we saw at the end of the
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: last book, right, that Galgan had forwarded the orders to
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: raise her to the High Blood or to the Low
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: Blood for her contributions with the battle, and so she
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: has never received that news, and Mishima is behaving differently
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: towards her because they have different rank, Like they still
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: have their friendship and their professional relationship, but also their
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: professional relationship has like the amplitude has changed. The distance
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: between them has widened, and so he has to treat
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: her different and she's like still uncomfortable with that, And
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: it's a whole little vignette of their relationship encapsulated in
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: that little plot point.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: While they're talking about like whether or not the trees
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: should have budded yet, because you know, everything's dead and
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: it's obvious that things probably should start budding, even though
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: it's the end of winter, so things kind of always
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: looked at at the end of winter, right, But it's like,
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, aren't it's it's been a while, we
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: should see some signs of spring, and nobody's seeing any
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: signs of spring.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: Right, And also there's these other oddities like men that
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: vanish too fast that the Scouts are.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: Supplies just vanishing into dust in a moment when there
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: were only trustworthy eyes on it, like, and the trees
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: aren't right, like they're just having this little discussion while
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: also yeah, giving us this whole vibe of like who
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: they are as people, like they have a good working relationship.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: And I assume the men disappearing in the fields are ghosts.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's what I assume as well. So we've got
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: ghost appearances doing kind of a will of the Wisps
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: fairy lights kind of thing to the Scouts and things rotting.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: Is just the dark one touching the world. Yeah, we've
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: seen that, all of you. Yeah, yep. Dead rats lying
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: on their backs, one with the tail in the mouth
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: of the other.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, if there was ever going to be an omen,
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: that was it.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: That was an omen, right, the yin Yang old eyes
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: said eye symbol and dead rat it's.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: Like a it's more like an our boros, but like
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: it's two rats. Like I don't know what symbol that is,
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: but it's clearly bad.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: Even I'd see that and be like, Okay, I'm gonna
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: stay home.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: Exactly exactly like you just you see that and yeah,
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: you turn around, you don't, you don't fuck with whatever
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: is after is after that? Yeah, and so yeah, she
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: she thinks again, because Sean Chance sucks even thinking about
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: the fact that she should, that they should be allying
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: with these people rather than conquering them. It's treason. It's
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: treason to question your higher up's rulers, your higher up,
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: your higher up people's thoughts and policies. It's treason to
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 2: even question them. I don't want to be part of
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: a system that requires me to like be self censoring
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: in my own head like that, Like that level of
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: internal self censoring is is bad. Your government is bad.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: When what are you talking about? A radio? I do?
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: Of course you do.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Autistic masking, nonwithstanding, and also autistic masking being a
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: perfect example of normative neurotypical pathologizing culture getting all up
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: on our heads and telling us that we're not worthy
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: unless we can perform to a certain very narrow, normative,
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: capitalistic standard. It's literally the same thing. It's bad, and
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: it should be deprogrammed from work of a lifetime. Yeah, sorry,
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: I'll put my soap box away. Wrong, wrong room. I'll
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: come back on Thursday.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: I'll have so much to say nice or after this.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: So she's having all these thoughts and she turns over
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: to me Shamant to tell him, you know, go set
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: up camp, and he, you know, sprats an arrow through
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: his neck, which is yeah, yeah, just and then always
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: the descripture is always of them like being super panicked.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: Is that that horror? Horror of Like I think one
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: really good way to convey horror her is to show
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: someone who is dead but still alive realizing that they're dead.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: Like that's that kind of horror that, like I think
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: is very creepy. And why it's very visuals because you
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: see that in movies all the time, of someone who
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: has been killed and then does a bunch of stuff
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: as they're dying, but you know there's nothing you can
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: do to save them.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. And then she has no time to respond
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: to that because she immediately is thrown out of her
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: saddle by her horse freaking out uncharacteristically because her horse
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: is battle trained and hardcore and has never smelled a
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: trollic before in its life. And right, I was gonna say,
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: not handling that, well, that's the problem.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Trills talks are. It's like, you can't train them
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: out of trolks if they've never seen a trollic before.
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: So yeah, only Borderlanders have trollic proof horses land exactly exactly.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: So that but that saves her life because there was
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: supposed to be a little severe and twisting to take
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: a parent touched person and insert her into the shan
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: Chan decision making chain. That was important and that's why
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: the horse threw her. And then she has that fun
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: moment where she's fun for us, not fun for her,
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: fun for us, where she goes to attack the man
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: who had attacked her and he turns around snorting because
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: he's actually like a bull or something and it's Tralic,
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: and she has the moment of being like, that is
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: not a man. That is something that I thought only
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: existed in stories and in superstitions, and like my entire
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: worldview needs to change on a dime. And then and
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: then impressively, she kills the thing she goes from I've
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: never heard of. I've never seen a trollock in my life.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: I am suddenly facing a nightmare made flesh, and she
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: manages to win combat against it, like she is a
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: badass warrior to manage all.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: That the shan chan are effective fighters. That's one thing
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: you'll give. I give him credit for, right that immediate
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: like chop off an arm, chop off the head. The
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: head makes an appearance later. Right, she presents the head
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: of I believe that trolic to Tuon to basically say, like, yes,
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: these are real. We should probably sack of heads.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, a sack of examples of
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: the different varieties of trollics.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: Mm, gotcha.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: She watches her friend Die gets thrown off her horse,
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: learns that nightmares are real, and manages to succeed in
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: combat against the trollic all in the span of like
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: thirty seconds.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: So, my, I have a couple of questions and could
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: not find any answers online, nor could I speculate where
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: are they from, how did they get there? And who
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: sent them?
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: No idea to all three.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, so I'll wildly speculate, right like trillics only move
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: at forsaken directions. At this point, the only way you
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: know they got through all of the perimeter of the
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: sean Chan has to be wagged.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they're not sneaky. They're not sneaky.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: So I think we have a forsaken ordering these trollocks around,
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: and possibly Tayim because I believe he also set up
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's a couple of possibilities here right, Right,
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: We've got Grendall who just recently attacked parents for us
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: with Trolliks who were right near Tyly. So maybe it's
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: an offshoot of that group of Tralucs that Grendall sent, Right,
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: that's entirely a possibility. Why they went through another waygate
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: to get there, which they must have done. They didn't
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: follow them right like, that doesn't necessarily work, but I
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: think they have to be Why. I think Tayim is
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: because he sent all the Troluks after Rand right at
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: the manor, And I think he's the one who's like
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: going around posing his other forsake and directing trallaks. But
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: that's a guess. That's just a guess.
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, where's his motive for attacking Abu Dhark?
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: So, Okay, So you're talking, and I'm thinking on the fly,
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: what about Semarag and or Surov. Could they have somehow
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: arranged to have a force of shadow spawn nearby for
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: a contingency.
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: And just because they didn't come back with now the group. Well,
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: but no, they wouldn't have come back with this group. Maybe,
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It feels too late. They feel like
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: they're defeated, Like why would these this group of trunks
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: do anything at this point?
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't. I'm not sure what the motive
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: is for attacking them, Like, because they aren't transporting anyone important,
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: they aren't transporting any important information, they aren't guarding an
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: important location or an important prisoner. What are What's what's
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: the point in attacking them?
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: It feels like Brandon needed Tailee to have a reason
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: to have trolik heads, and it's like, why couldn't she
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: have just waited around for paren you know, And it
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: seems like he it was a plot hole of him
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: trying to be like, oh shit, she needs trollek heads quick.
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: Let's have her be attacked by centralcs randomly and that
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: or some trollic heads for the next scene.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: Well, maybe that army that we may or may not
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: have lost in the last book turned into trollucs. We
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: actually had someone email us about that missing army. They
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: think it is the old People and Children contingent. I'm
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: so not sure. We've got now two different spare armies
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: wandering around this plot. We got those guys from last book,
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: and now we've got spare trollcs just like showing up
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: for no reason. I don't know. I feel like, yeah,
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: reality is just getting a little slippy. We need people
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: to be having conflicts, We need trollik heads in places
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: at certain times, so there are trollics there. It almost
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: feels like an eye of the world is all over again.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: It's just like because plot because it's book one, and
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: it's plot, except it's not book one, it's book twelve.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: But well, I mean, but the only thing I'll say
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: about this is there is that like letlore of chaos rule, right,
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: like dropping trollocs all of the place, dropping shadow all
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: over the place, right, It's very confusing, right, Like maybe
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: it is just a random band of trollics that popped
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: out of a way gate in that area and attacked
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: the nearest band.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: You know, that's super valid. I mean, we certainly saw
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: they were making good use of the ways in book four,
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: and like massa dark Matchichin cannot be everywhere.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: No, and they seem to have made use of it
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: to attack Rando in the manner as well. That's the
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: only way that force could have gotten there.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: So yeah, if you're just sort of cranking out trollics,
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: you'd be like, find any and all pathways through the
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: ways wherever you come out is good. Then you could
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: just randomly insert trollic attacks anywhere in the plot you
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: want and have plausible deniability on the logic front. Yeah,
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: I guess that makes a lot of sense as part
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: of how you know the world is falling apart as
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: monsters show up out of nowhere and murder your village
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: just for shits and giggles.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: Way far away from the border where they should be. Right,
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: This is just.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's basically a manufactured bubble of evil on the
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: part of the dark Sure. Yeah, well it's like blowing bubbles,
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: you know. It's like it's Dark friends doing that and
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: Forsaken doing that.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: Trickle down taint.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: God no, no, I refused, they're blown blown something else
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: all over.
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: The pattern, that's for sure. Good God, dammage, did you
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: have evil taco bell for lunch again? Damn it?
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: Lord? All right, so that's all I got for uh.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it for the first half. We're going to
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: save the second half the prologue for the next episode,
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: because that's quite a bit.
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: You're gonna get three more povs in the next one.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: There's six povs in the opening prologue. So yeah, we figured.
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: That we're an hour twenty into this one already, so
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: and we still have a lot to talk about outside
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: of the of the chapter.
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so, as per usual, I'm glad that we
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: chose to split the prolog into multiple episodes because that
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: is just what's necessary. But unlike some books, this is
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: going to only be a two parter prologue, so that's cool.
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: But yeah, if we are done with the book, then
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: do we need to take a break before we get
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: into our multitudinous updates or.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would like to take a break before we
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: jump in.
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: Okay, well everyone, hold.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: On, it's just a five minute or hold on a moment.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: We will be back shortly and thank you very much.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: Then we will do updates.
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: Okay, so, first update, you've been working on Fox Andravenmedia
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: dot com.
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and Caitlin, who I said before in the Tangents episode,
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: I had stopped getting help from I did get help
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: from again, because I'm just the worst client and I
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: shouldn't give blow by blow updates of how projects are going. No,
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: but I have a half baked website. Now. If you
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: go to Fox and Raven Media all spelled out dot com,
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 2: you will find our website. I will be a link
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: in the show notes, and you will be able to
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: see the podcasts that we currently create, as well as
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: the beginnings of me pitching myself as a podcast producer
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: that you can hire. It is still very much half baked,
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: but Caitlin did a lot of work to make it
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 2: significantly more baked than my skills. We're going to get it,
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: and there are people in my life that can help
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: me with that, so I'll continue poking at it and
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: working on it. It's not finished, but it is there.
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 2: It is tech functional. Just don't mind the dust and
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: the exposed wiring.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: Don't touch the exposed wiring, don't touch the y's. We
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: put some safety cones up around it. But that's about it.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but it is happening. I am now actually
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: creating a place where you can find all of our
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: websites and see what it is like to hire me potentially, hopefully,
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 2: maybe it's happening. It's happening. Thank you very much Caitlin
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: for helping uh.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: And then you wanted to start something in the discord
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: as well. You want to talk about that?
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So, as I mentioned, I think in the Tangents episode,
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: I am in training to be an autism peer support coach,
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: an autistic autism peer support coach, and one of the
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: parts of that is doing discussion circles. And I thought,
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: why not hang out with people in the discord and
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 2: talk about way of time through an autistic ADHD neurodivergent
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: kind of lens. That seemed like a sort of no
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 2: brainer for me to get that kind of experience and
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: continue talking about weel of time rather than anything else,
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: because I am a one track minded pony.
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: Are you suggesting that the audience of a podcast with
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: five hundred episodes diving deeply into a special interest such
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: as The Wheel of Time, an obscure book series read
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: by yes, millions of people, but not that many people
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: may have some autistic traits. Is that what you're trying
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: to suggest?
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: I am pitching an entire community based on that premise. Yes, yes,
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: I am suggesting that a whole lot of you are
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: autistic or at least adjacent enough to autism to enjoy
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 2: having a neurodivergent support group conversation space. I will be
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: starting it in this very discord server using zoom. We
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: will have discussions weekly at Thursdays at one pm Pacific.
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: It's going to be very like you know, bookending the
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: recordings that we do here on Tuesdays, and if it
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: goes at all well, I will probably expand to like
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: other discord servers where I know people are and ask
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: them if they want to come join. Basically, the idea
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: is we're all gonna hang out and have a kind
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: of traffic controlled discussion and it's really not that hard.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 2: It's gonna be fun. I have ideas for what we
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: can talk about, because basically the idea is just that
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: making community with other autistic people is healthy for your brain,
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 2: and it's really not that hard. So I really hope
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: to see some people there. I'll keep making events and
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: announcements in the discord server, and if you hear this
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: on the recording and you're not part of the discord
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 2: server and you really want to get if you're interested
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: in that, hopefully I will have heard from enough people
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: like you that there is something more formal for you
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: to go sign up at other than jumping in through discord,
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 2: So stay tuned for that, and I hope to see
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 2: some of you there. That's that update. I'm also gonna
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 2: make a website for that eventually, like not for the
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: Wheel of Time thing, but for like my coaching reality.
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: That's the next website I need to make. But that's
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 2: a whole separate thing.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: And I suppose last, but certainly not least, something else
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: happened over the last few weeks that I find disappointing.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: The US elections occurred.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 2: If you do not want to hear about US politics,
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: you can leave now. This is the end of the
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: episode for you. But if you have any tolerance for
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: more talk of this sort, and you even normally don't
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: want to listen to us, like, maybe listen to this one.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 2: And if you normally like hearing a branch about politics,
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: then get some popcorn. Because it's the end of the
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: episode and we're going to let loose for a minute.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: All right. So I'll start because I think I think
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: I can sum up how I'm feeling pretty quickly. A
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: little bit of just immense disappointment combined with I told
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: you so. I used to live in the South. I
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: know those people are fucking dumb and excuse me to
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: anyone who lives in the South, like but percentage wise
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: the people, I don't know how angry I want to
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: get here because I'm pretty angry.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty you can let loose and I can edit
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: it out if you decide you don't want it all
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: out there, okay, because there's very few people in the
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: actual live right now.
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: I just it's disappointing. I find I'm disappointed but not surprised,
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: and it makes me want to withdraw and not engage,
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: which I know is exactly what you're arguing against. But
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: like that's, you know, on a personal journey. I'm really
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: at this point where I feel like I've I've fought
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: and I've argued, and you know, maybe it's just the
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: age of that I'm getting where it feels like everything
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: just gets a little further away. And even though I
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: know when we're making progress, I think I saw someone
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: say I don't want to wait for progress, I want
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: to live it like this very frustrating, very frustrating. Yeah,
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: so I'm disappointed, I'm scared, I'm angry. I didn't and
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: I honestly on the did not think that Trump would
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: get reelected after his disaster of a last term.
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I thought that having the most qualified candidate for
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: the office ever versus a clown fascist was a sufficiently
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 2: obvious argument that it would be not a difficult election.
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 2: And instead we got what is either an incredibly massive
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: conspiracy or an incredibly massive exposure of a lie that
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: we have all been collectively telling ourselves about what progress
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 2: means and what progress looks like. And to judge by
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: all of the thinkers and historians and writers and activists
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: and commentators that I follow, it's the latter. We've been
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: very good at convincing ourselves of one thing and not
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 2: dealing with our ship as a society. And this is
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: those chickens coming home to roost like that is the
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: simpler explanation.
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And the very simple explanation is the I mean,
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: right now, things are very very expensive compared to our income,
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: and they've gotten that's gotten really bad over the last
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 1: four years. And people, you know, you might say, in
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: any environment, they're going to vote for the politician that's
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: not in power. And you know, if you want to
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: make simplify things down and ignore the candidates, which I yeah. Yeah,
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: and like, don't get me wrong, there is a huge
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: percentage of people who are voting against her because she's black,
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: because she's a woman.
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's bad out there for black women.
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 2: It's really bad.
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I obviously am pissed off about the election results,
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 2: but also I'm less I'm moving through that grief cycle
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 2: into what comes next. It's it's been a couple of weeks.
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: That's why you should cut out most of what I
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: said and go right to you what you're going to say.
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So basically, all right, I wanted to talk about
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: it on the podcast in more depth than we usually
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: do politics just because it's it's a paradigm shift, right,
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 2: Like this is a paradigm shift. But things are going
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 2: to be so much fuckier with this round of the
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 2: Trump presidency than the last round. Like there's so much
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: eroding of institutions that has happened, and so much installation
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 2: of ridiculous people, and so much overton window shifting that like,
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know what the next four years are going
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 2: to bring, except that everyone who knows more than I
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 2: do is is talking in very dire terms, and it's
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: like that's bad. Yeah, so I do try to keep
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 2: my explicitly political takes out of the podcast. But also
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: y'all have heard me, like I understand the world through
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 2: the lens of wheel of time, and I think that
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 2: it's important to understand the world. So like I do
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 2: apply wheel life time to shit, right, And.
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: We've compared Donald Trump to a lighta enough fucking times, right,
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 1: Like you wonder stand where we're coming from from that pov, Right,
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: there's no like this is like if after the last
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: battle they went up and went, you know what, we
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: need back a.
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 3: Lot literally literally, but like the reality is that people
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 3: are literally going to die because of this election and
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 3: are already dying, yeah, because of the election, like particularly
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 3: you know, all the racially marginalized people, queer people, trans people, women,
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 3: disabled people, like we're all.
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: Facing increased obstacles starting now and going on into who
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 2: the fuck knows what. Right, this could be generational shifting
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: that is happening, and like lives are changing right now
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 2: because of this, and that's fucked up. It's just it's
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: fucked up. Like Nazis were marching around in Columbus, Ohio.
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: Which is where Wakan is by the way.
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: And you know what I noticed most in all the videos,
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 2: aside from how small the Nazi rally, was how little
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 2: opposition they were facing. Editing a radia here, I have
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 2: a correction about this. I was totally wrong. Actually, there
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 2: was an article I'll put it in the show notes
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: from the Columbus Dispatch that tells what is honestly a
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 2: delightful story of how there was a fight that actually
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 2: broke out at that Nazi march, like later than the
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 2: videos I guess I saw, in which they ended up
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 2: like covered in pepper spray and detained by the cops,
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: and they didn't actually get arrested because they didn't, like
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: in the legal sense, start the fight, but like, you know,
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 2: they prompted that by doing Nazi shit obviously. But yeah,
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 2: what was cool about this was that these these fuck
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: waffles told the police that they had never experienced a
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: reaction like that before and they were super like dismayed
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: by it. So, you know, all reasonable people should be
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: happy to hear that. Anyway, that's what I get for
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 2: sharing offhand news that I have not properly researched yet
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 2: so lesson learned. So it's like, this shit is weird
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 2: and dangerous and changing rapidly, and like I don't want
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 2: to be labor that point on this podcast for all
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: of all fucking places. But like also like let's not
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 2: pretend that that's not happening. The other thing I really
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: want to emphasize to your point of feeling really despondent
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: is like community, right, yeah, Fuck the national level, Fuck
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 2: the federal level. Fuck what people on the other side
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: of the country are doing. Community locally? Who are your people,
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 2: what are your resources? Who needs help? Who has resources?
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 2: Like find people closer to you and do something, grow
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: a garden, whatever, Like do a thing, Do a thing
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: that involves interacting with real people in a tangible way.
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: Join your local government, get a fucking library card, do
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: a thing that involves you in the world around you.
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 2: Like doom scrolling because national shit is on fire is
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 2: not effective. It's just not effective. The fire has happened.
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 2: There are ways to deal with that at the federal level.
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 2: But like, if you're feeling despondent and spun out and
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 2: like just giving up and withdrawing, change the scale you're
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 2: trying to fix the world at, find something much smaller
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: to dig into and build a human connection through, because
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 2: that's that's what's going to help us manage to survive
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 2: slightly better through whatever comes at us. And I mean
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 2: that's always been true and it will always be true,
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: and the climate crisis will always make that really salient information.
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: But like, if you're feeling despondent about the election, like
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 2: that's from what I gather on the internet. That's the
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 2: key to surviving mentally and emotionally and literally I.
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: Love that you just suggested. Hey, this thing I found
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: by myself sitting alone researching on the internet is that
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: you should go create community.
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 2: Look, the Internet is a really complicated instrument because it's
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 2: not just me by myself, Like physically, yes, but like
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: I am in active communication with people.
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: As I sit here, like in a room with you
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: exactly we're talking.
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: This is a human cad. This is at a scale
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 2: we can manage. Because the other, you know, thing that
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: I want to emphasize about this is that although we
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 2: are ranting here about politics, broadly speaking, going forward, the
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: podcast will continue to be an escape from politics. The
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 2: podcast will continue to be one of those little pockets
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 2: of refuge where you don't have to hear about that
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 2: because we don't really have the mandate in any sense
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: to be giving you hot political takes or updates on
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 2: what's happening in the world. We specifically have all gathered
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 2: here to read these books. That is explicitly why we're here.
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: And I'm just not in a place where I think
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm gonna know any more than some of the
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: body else. Like there was a time in my life
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: where maybe I felt like I could give people advice
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: on politics, like I knew the players, I knew the things.
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: I have not kept up with it on that granular level.
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 1: The gish gallop warm me down.
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's again, you know, refocusing of scale, right,
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 2: and so I'm trying to keep my scale focused. Like
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 2: what I know about is wheel of time, Like that
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 2: is why people are listening to me, is for real
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: of time. Like I do think I know a lot,
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 2: not about politics, but about the social fabric of what's happening.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: I have spent many years studying the stuff from the
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 2: bottom up autism brain, and I have a lot of opinions.
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 2: And that is not why people are here. People are
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: here for my encyclopedic knowledge of wheel of time.
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: However, if society does fall apart while we're reading about
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: the last battle. It will be incredibly ironic.
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 2: It will be and I'm not going to hide my
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 2: life or my identity or my reality, just going to
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: pick and choose. Oh No, the power is going out.
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 2: The power is going out actively right now.
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: Well, I think that's a good place to call it.
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: We've talked. Unless there's anything else you want to say
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: about politics, that's it. She's gone, her power's out. It's
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 1: just me and I certainly don't have anything else to
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: say about politics. So thank you very much for joining
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: us live. Sorry about the terrible news. Didn't want to
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: have to share that, but I love you all. Thank
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: you for being here.
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 2: Goodbye, Hey y'all. Editing Aradia here to wrap up my
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 2: thoughts that were rudely cut off by that power outage.
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: The last thing that I wanted to say is this.
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 2: We are trusting that you are an intelligent adult person
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 2: who is perfectly capable of getting news about current politics
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: from other more qualified sources, and who would like and
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 2: deserves an hour plus of actual escape to a fantasy world.
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 2: We expect you to be doing your best to stay
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 2: informed and engaged, and we will be here providing some
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 2: of the necessary distractions for your needed breaks. In conclusion,
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 2: this is going to be frustrating, messy, and dangerous. We
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 2: are all in this together, though some of us have
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 2: a level of or at least an illusion of safety
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 2: that others don't have. We have got to hold on
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 2: to and work with each other now and always. I
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 2: hope that you are doing okay today, Okay bye. Thank
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 2: you for listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: Please rate and review us on your podcast app and
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 2: consider supporting us on Patreon for ad free episodes. Watt
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 2: Spoilers is a production of Fox and Raven Media. For
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: more podcasts from Fox and Draven Media, visit our website
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 2: at Foxendravenmedia dot com.