Latest / Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast / IFH 786: Crafting Authentic Stories from Lady Gaga to Sci-Fi Futures with Kim Ray

Transcript

IFH 786: Crafting Authentic Stories from Lady Gaga to Sci-Fi Futures with Kim Ray · Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You are listening to the ifh podcast Network. For more
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork dot com.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Indie Film Muscle Podcast, Episode number seven
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: eighty six, Cinema Should Make You Forget You're sitting in
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: a theater, Roman Polanski.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood. It's the Indie
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Film Hustle Podcast, where we show you how to survive
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: the film biz.
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Huscle Podcast.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: I am your humble host, Alex Ferrari.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Today's show is sponsored by Rise of the Film Entrepreneur
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: How to turn your independent film into a profitable business.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: It's harder today than ever before for independent filmmakers to
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: make money with their films from predatory film distributors ripping
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: them off to huckster film aggregators who prey upon them.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: The odds are stacked against the indie filmmaker. The distribution
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: model of making money with your film is broken, and
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: there needs to be a change. The future of independent
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: filmmaking is the entrepreneurial filmmaker or the film entrepreneur. In
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Rise of the Film Entrepreneur, I break down how to
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: actually make money with your film projects and show you
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: how to turn your indie film into a profitable business.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: With case studies examining successes and failures. This book shows
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: you the step by step method to turn your passion
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: into a profitable career. If you're making a feature film, series,
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: or any other kind of video content, the Film Entrepreneur
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: method will set you up for success. The book is
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: available in paperback, ebook, and of course audiobook. If you
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: want to order it, just head over to www. Dot
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: filmbiz book dot com. That's film bizbook dot com. Enjoy
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: My guest is a writer, producer, and director. She has
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: produced reality TV shows such as MTV's Me. She's been
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: a producer on The X Factor. She's been a producer
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: for Kendra on Top, which is currently on at sixth
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: season on we TV, and her current produced project stars
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: a little known singer named Lady Gaga. You may have
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: heard of her in the documentary Gaga five Foot two,
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: which is on Netflix right now. Which follows Gaga round
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: actually prepares for her Super Bowl halftime show and just
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: gives you a sneak people of her life in general
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: with guests Kim Ray, you know, we actually met on Twitter,
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: and I usually meet a lot of people through Twitter
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: because you've produced the new Netflix special Gaga five Foot Two,
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: And you know, we got to talking and I looked
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: up your IMDb, and I'm actually familiar with a lot
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: of your work, actually with actually funny enough, starting with
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: West Bank Story. I actually remember seeing that years ago,
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: and when I saw that was one of the things
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: that you produced, I was like, Wow, what a small world.
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: I co wrote it, Yeah, I wrote it with Ari
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: the director. We were in grad school together at the
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: time at USC, and we had kind of become besties,
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: and we started an organization at USC for the grads
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: production students called the Entertainment Industry Network because when we
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: both got there, we started the same semester for the
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: directing program at USC the production program, and there was
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: no there wasn't a lot of interaction with the other programs,
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: with the writing program or the producing program, or even
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: with Hollywood. So we started this organization and kind of
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: mixed everybody up and got everybody going, you know, working
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: together on different projects so that you know, people from
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: the producers. I was the Peter Start Producing program would
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: get with the writers and they bring directors projects and
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: so it was really successful. And then when it came
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: time for us to do our thesis films, I wrote
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: mine and obviously was directing it, but I needed an
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: assistant director. I really needed somebody to run the set.
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: And I was like, you have to me my id.
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: You have no choice. And he's like, well, help me
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: write my thesis film. He's like, I got nothing. He's like,
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: I just have an idea. It's called West Bank Story
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: and maybe it's like a bank in the in the valley,
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: you know, but it's it's kind of still like you know,
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: West Side Story within Israeli, but within Israeli and a
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: Palestinian and we just kind of went from there. And
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: I was like all right, and we just you know,
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: developed and developed. And then one day and I've never
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: been to Israel and his father, our's dad is Israeli,
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: so he had been and I was like, well, explain
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: it to me, Like what is it like, you know,
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: what do they have in common? You know? And he's like, well,
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: they really just have the food in common. And you know,
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: for sure, not just, but that's one of the things
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: they have in common is the food. And we started
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: talking about and I just remembered like all of the
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: McDonald's and Burger King wars when I was a kid,
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: and like peptine coke and all that stuff. And I
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: was like, well, what if it's competing for law full
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: stands in the West Bank And he was like, well,
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: that would never happen because there's checkpoints, you know, they're
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: they're not like you can't It's not like you just
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: walked from one side to the other, you know. I said, well,
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: what if it was at a checkpoint? Like he's like, no,
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: that would never happen. I was like, well, okay, but
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: let's take some creative license here. Maybe it could happen.
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: And we just both It was ended up being funny,
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: and at one point we had like Fatima, you know,
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: have a backpack on, like maybe she's a suit side by,
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: and obviously that wasn't funny and that was we cut that.
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: But you know, we were just going through ideas of
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: what could be funny and how it could be a comedy.
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: Musical and I had actually been in a band in
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: college and written a lot of songs and a lot
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: of poetry. And so when we finished the script, Aari
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: was like, well, we have to find a composer, you know,
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: we have to find somebody to write all the songs.
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: And I was like, well, why don't we take a
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: stab And He's like, I don't know anying about writing songs.
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: And I was like, well I wasn't a band. Maybe
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: I you know, maybe I could do any writing music.
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: Have you ever written any songs or poetry?
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: No? No, but believe me, Kim note, nobody wants to
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: see me sing either.
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: So all right, well it's you know, it's it's kind
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: of embarrassing, right, Like when you write a song or
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: a poem and you can write it, that's not embarrassing.
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: That's like, you know, you're putting your emotions on paper,
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: but as soon as you say it out loud or
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: you sing it, it's kind of like there's a there's
• 6:23
  Speaker 4: a certain it's you're being very vulnerable, you know, to
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: whoever's listening. You're it's a very you're in a very
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: vulnerable moment because you're sharing with them something that you
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: felt emotionally or you know that you put on paper
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: and now it's coming out in this kind of in
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: this this emotional way. And so I took a stab
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: at writing one of the songs. In fact, I wrote
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: the love the love song first, the lyrics, and I
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: sent it to Ari like you might hate this is
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: my view, horrible blah blah blah. And I just remember
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: like waiting to hear back because I emailed it over
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: and we were really good friends. That wasn't like I
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: was embarrassed to him, but I still it was just like,
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: you know, I had been this emotional kind of love song,
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: and it took them a while to get back to me,
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: which was probably like five hours, you know, but still
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: it felt like an eternity. And then he was like, okay,
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: I gave it to my mom. And Arie is very
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: much like he was in a fraternity in some ways,
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: he's kind of like a dude. And he was like, okay,
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: well gave it to my mom, and my mom really
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: liked his sounds really good. I think, let's just try
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: to write the songs. And this is after we had
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: gotten to so many composers, and I kept telling him
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: because all the composers we met with. They were good composers,
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: but I just didn't think they'd be good lyricists. But
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: they would write the right songs and I felt as
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: the writers, we really needed to write them and so
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: and so we did. And it was a really rewarding
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: experience making that and writing it, and yeah, and then
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: you know, seeing it come to fruition was it was
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: a really great It was a really great experience. So, yeah,
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: music has always been a big part of my life,
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: so you know that that film is kind of just
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: an extension of that.
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: So when you were putting this all together and you
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: finally were able to make it and everyone was able
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: to view it, did did they finally understand the idea
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: behind the competing flaffel stands?
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they did, they did. And it was fun casting
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: it too, because you know, on the Israeli side, we
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: had more freedom because we could cast you know, people
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: who were supposed to be Russian or you know, like
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: people from all over you know that go who are Jewish,
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: who go to Israel to live there. You know, So yeah,
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: it was it was actually, it was a lot of
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: fun making it and casting it, and yeah, and seeing it,
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: having people see it. It was scary at first because you know,
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: you really hope that people aren't offended and that people
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: get it and they understand that it's a peaceful you know,
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: it's a message of peace and hope and we're all
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: all alike, and why do we have to have these
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: wars and why do we have to have so much hatred?
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: And so yeah, there was a little bit of fear
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: at first, but then everybody kind of embraced it. And
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: it's this day, like anytime I med a Palestinian they've
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: seen the movie, so random or a lot of Israeli, yeah,
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: or Israeli they've seen the movie. So it was shown
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: a lot over there, and Ari went over there a
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: lot with it, and yeah, it was a popular short film,
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: especially in the Middle East. A parent.
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: And that's awesome, by the way, because I was actually
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: going to ask you about the reception of like how
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: they actually responded to it, because you know, you know, nowadays,
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: whenever somebody makes anything, I mean and look, you just
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: touched on you know there, you did fear for a
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: little for even a split second. You know, how are
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: people going to respond to this? Is there going to
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: be some bad backlash? Is there even going to be
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: any backlash.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: You know, as you sort of as we because that
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: was like two thousand and four, two thousand and five,
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: as we go forward to today, you know, I do
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: you think things are are more sensitive now in terms
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: of if you were trying, like, let's just say, Kim,
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: you were trying to make the West Bank story right now,
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: do you think that you'd have a lot more backlash?
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: That's a good question. I don't know. I mean, there's
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: still not piece in the Middle East, you know what
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: I mean, So, uh, you know, maybe maybe not. I
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: think I think people are always looking for a positive message.
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: I really believe that, you know, and I think everybody
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: everybody kind of does. I mean one of the first
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: you know, even like internet stuff. It's like, you know,
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: you want to keep your message inspirational, what people say
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: about when you're trying to market yourself or whatever. I
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: think I think people who are who have a positive
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: message or kind of bes in in the world wind
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: right now because we are so divided and and there's
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: so much you know, anger and frustration, and you know,
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: starting with you know our president. It's I don't know,
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: I think it would be I think it'd be received
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: just as well today.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: Actually, yeah, you know, it's funny because it's Halloween. We're
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: recording this on Halloween. And I said to somebody today
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: they said, oh, Dave, I didn't dress up. And I said, well,
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: you can be a millennial and just be offended at everything. Uh,
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: but you know, it was it was a funny joke,
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: you know, because I mean, I'm a millennial too. It's
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: just it's it's just you know, it was just funny though.
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: And but but uh, you know, I just you know,
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: when when we look out in the country today and
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: even you know, and it's amazing, Kim, how fast everything
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: has sort of changed, not only in film, but you
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: know in the in the world. You know, cell phones
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: are are so fast. And and what I'm going with
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: this is, you know, everyone sort of knows news as
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: it happens. You know, as soon as something happens, you
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: get a notification on Twitter or what have you, and
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: it's you know, we become almost innundated with this, and
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: you know, and that's why I think sometimes people get
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: a little more sensitive about things because it seems like
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: that's all it's happening. If that's all you're looking for,
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: is do you know? Do you know what I mean?
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah? No, I do. I Actually, you know, I was
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: a huge fan of Hillary Clinton. I'm I followed her
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: since I was in college and you know, read all
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: of her speeches and really, you know, I'm the type
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: of first I'd go down the rabbit hole, you know,
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: I do all the research. I you know, I really
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: want to know who she was years ago, and really
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: followed the campaign really closely. And a friend of mine
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: is a PhD in what he's getting his PhD at
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: UCLA for I want to say it's called information system,
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: but I can be completely religning that. Basically, he studies
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: the Internet and he's also a journalist for in Denmark.
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: He lives here in Los Angeles, and you know, so
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: I was really aware from him, and also from a
• 13:09
  Speaker 4: project that I did with Chris mccarvel. He's the director
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: of the Gaga film. He and I did what we
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: were we did kind of like a pilot for a show,
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: uh that that was about Internet culture and just various
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: things about about the Internet. And the pilot that we
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: did was about Russian trolls and Russian troll farms and
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: what in particular they had tried to start this emergency
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: situation in a small town Louisiana, and so we kind
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: of followed that story. And then throughout the election, my
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: friend was, you know, alerting me to all the Russian
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: ads that were, you know, how Russians were meddling in
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: the election, especially in Wisconsin and Michigan and what was
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: happening there. And so I got really addicted in the news,
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: you know, I mean, if I hadn't already been, it
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: was really addictive to news and just hyper inflamed by
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: everything I read, you know, especially you know, if it
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: was coming from you know, the Trump camp or whatever.
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: And but once once once the election happened, I really
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: I just kind of stopped. And because what happened was
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: this thing that had never happened before, and there have
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: been studies done on this and things written about it.
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: You can look it up. I started. I have you know,
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: I have a I have the Apple Aggregator for News
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: on my phone, like everybody within my phone or whatever
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: program they use that aggregates the news from all my
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: favorite sources. So you know, I do New York Times, Word, Magazine, CNN,
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: you know, you name it, and all of a sudden,
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: the word Trump started showing up, like every single article Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump.
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: And I had never you know, we're all addicted to
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: the news, but I hadn't never seen one name cover
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: all of my news feeds before. And again, it was
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: a phenomenon, right, Like, again, this is something that's been studied.
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: The amount of news coverage that he's gotten since pretty
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: much right before the election and post the election goes
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: beyond the pale. I mean, it supersedes any other figure
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: who's ever been covered by the news, and it's been sustained,
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: you know, obviously in part because of the egregious things
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: that he said done, the lives that he's told, blah
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: blah blah blah, on and on. It's all newsworthy. But
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: I just kind of, you know, wrapped my head around
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: that was like, I'm kind of peace outing the news
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: as much as I can. And because I was so angry,
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: I was angry on my social media feed that I
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: was angry, and I just something just snapped in me
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: and I was just like, it's the world isn't going
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: to change if I whether or not I read every
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: single news article, you know what I mean, Like, it's
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: not I'm you know, I grew up in an era
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: of newspapers where you read the newspaper pretty much. When
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: I lived in New York especially, I just read it
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: on Sunday. Get the New York Times on Sunday, and
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: that was it. So it wasn't so hard for me
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: to kind of turn it off or not. I don't
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: think I needed it, but I think I definitely turned
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: it down, way down, because it's just not life is
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: too short because of my lawn.
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: Respond to that, I agree, you know, it's I stopped.
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: You know. Facebook to me was was like was my
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: version of your Apple aggregator on your iPhone. I would
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: log onto Facebook and I made a very stupid mistake, Kim.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: I would log on Facebook first thing in the morning
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: when I woke up.
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, same same, because you're laying in bed, right
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: and you're waking up, and the first thing you do
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: is you go your phone. Yeah, no, I'm with you, uh.
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: Huh, and yeah, it's It's all It was was bad
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: news on top of bad news on top of more
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: like terrible news, and I go, why am I subjecting
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: myself to this, like, you know, you know, first off,
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: you know, what could I do about North Korea? You know,
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: what can I do about this or that or the
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: other thing? And I started to realize, you know, the
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: less I was on Facebook, the better, and Twitter I
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: can control a lot more. And Facebook, it's just like
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: it was so finally I just stopped it all together,
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: and you know what, Kim might, Gradually I got happier again.
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: I stopped having to worry about this stuff, because I mean,
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: at the end of the day, you're just gonna say,
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: if it's happens, it happens, and there's nothing that you know,
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: we could do about it, so you stop really worrying
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: about it. I mean, I have a friend of mine
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: who goes on Facebook, and he used to do a
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: lot of movie stuff, and all of a sudden, he
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: just he's like obsessed now with like going on Facebook
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: and like seeing all this news and posting all this
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: and he he's guilty to a post fake news. And
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: I'm like, you know, what is that going to do
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: for you? At the end of the day, you posted
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: a news article that is most likely not true, What
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: is that going to do for you? You know, it's
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: just I don't see what the point of that is.
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I think it's one thing to be
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: intelligently informed and to check different sources. It's something interests
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: you or disturbs you. It's just another thing to, like
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: you say, you know, be pouring through Facebook every morning
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: and then pouring through the news and spending an hour
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: going through all this stuff for several hours a day.
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: It's just it's too much. On the flip side, I
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: have to say, the good thing about the Internet and
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: this dissemination of information has been you know, all of
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: the sexual harassment stories coming out over the last year,
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: especially you know the most recent Weinstein story, because these
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: women had no place to go before. They couldn't go
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: to human resources, they couldn't go to their boss, they
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: couldn't go anywhere. And now they can go to the Internet.
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: And even if it's just like hey, this happened to me,
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: and then another person's like, hey, this happened to me too.
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: Even if it's two people, it's powerful. But when it
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: becomes thirty, forty, fifty sixty people women who are like hey,
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: this happened to me, and then you start seeing how
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: all the stories are eerily similar. That's when I think,
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: that's when social media and the dissemination of data become important.
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: And in the entertainment industry, it's also I came on
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: usc in two thousand and five, and I had an
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: agent at UTA, an agent, a manager, and a lawyer,
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: and I was doing really well in the beginning of
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: my career. But and I write big budget sci fi
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: action primarily. That's what I write, and that's what I'm
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: interested in.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: And I had all these various projects, you know, semi
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: development or almost sold or whatever, but I just I
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: wasn't stealing the deal. And it was really frustrating because
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: I would walk in, you know, to these producers' offices
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: and I just and they were all men. I never,
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: I think once or twice I ever met with a woman,
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: but you know, all these executives and producers, and it
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: was never. I was never like sealing the deal. And
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: I really, you know, I like to think of myself
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: as good in a room. I like to think of
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: myselfself as personable. I like to think of myself as
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: a good writer, as a good you know, filmmaker in general.
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: But I just it wasn't happening, and I got you know,
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: I was getting really down on it. And that's kind
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: of actually, you know, the film industry obviously was changing,
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: right this is before Netflix was doing their own content
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: and studios were only putting out like eight movies a year. Like,
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: the film industry was changing, that's undeniable. But a few
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: years ago data started coming out and statistics started coming
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: out for those years in terms of how many women
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: writers were getting hired to write feature films, how many
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: women writers were selling spec scripts, how many women writers
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: were getting hired for writing rooms, how many scripts were
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: selling that had female protagonists, And the numbers didn't lie.
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: The numbers excusing the numbers reflected my personal experience, which
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: was that the doors, the door to entry was shut
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: and very few women were getting through. And it actually,
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: in some ways it was profoundly depressing, but in other
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: ways it was profoundly encouraging because I stopped blaming myself,
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: you know, I stopped thinking, oh, it's just because you
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: weren't talented enough, or you weren't you know, enough of
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: a salesperson to sell your idea, or you know, you
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: couldn't communicate, you know, what your pitch was, or your
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: concept or this or that it was. It was because
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: there was a bias, whether it was conscious, unconscious, whatever
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: it was, there was a bias against women. And there
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: still is. You know, I think the stories of the
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: Harvey Weinstein whatever whatever, that's the most horrific example, right,
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: But then you look at all the microaggressions, and the
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: microaggressions exist in the data that show how many female directors.
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: And I was just going up for a lot of
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: writing stuff, forget directing. And my degree from USC my
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: MFA is in dress directing. My undergrad from University of
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: Michigan is in film. And I feel like I didn't
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: even I wasn't even trying that hard to direct. I mean,
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: I actually ended up getting a job. I was working
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: as a commercial director for production company Advertising Company for
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: three years, which was great while going out and trying
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: to sell you know, bigger projects, but it's you know,
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: I think, you know, there's I guess my point is
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: that there's good and bad in the dissemination of news
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: and social media and all that stuff, and it's like
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: we you know, it keeps us aware, but it can
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: also be like you say, debilitating. So it has its
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: It definitely has an upside, and then it also has
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: a downside, you know, like and I'm looking all the
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: hashtag me too over the last few weeks has been
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: completely depressing, but also one hundred percent you know, it
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: needed to be seen, you know what I mean?
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I do? Do you know what you mean?
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: Kim? You know?
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: I think also you're right, that is a good you know,
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: a benefit of social media is that you can you
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: can not only share this news out like again, Harvey Weinstein,
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: how that whole thing broke And basically if it wasn't
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: for social media being as strong as it was, you know,
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: would we be able to get it out there? Would
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: he even be facing charges? You know, if it wasn't
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: as strong, social media wasn't as strong as it was.
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: You know, I actually had Kasian it was I'm sure
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: I just putched his last name again on the podcast.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: I don't know if you know Kasian, but Kasian is
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: the producer Dallas Buyers Club, the New Sun Dance Hits
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: mud a mud Bound excuse me, and he actually our
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: whole episode. We talked a lot about this about he
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: looked at all the numbers of like you know, director
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: of film product projects and you know, directed and written
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: by women, and the number was like seven percent, I
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: think he said. And he actually actually that that's like
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: his whole thing now is making more opportunities for for
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: women because he wants to actually improve his numbers. And
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: that's all. So by the way, if you if you're interested,
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: I'm just gonna sorry not to not to segue, but
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: I was just gonna say, Judge, yeah, I was gonna
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: say that the whole episode that actually just aired right
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: now in Halloween. That's all it is is is it's
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: all we talk a lot about that he's actually launched.
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: He actually helped launch uh the Horizon Award, which sends
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: two film uh two filmmakers, two women filmmakers to Sun Dance.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's just you know this guy, yeah, I
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: mean seriously for him, man.
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: Good for him, because you know what, at the end
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: of the day, it's like all these women are out
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: there trying to like you know, trying to say, oh,
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: we weren to hire our women, but at the end
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: of the day, men are is still in charge. So
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: they're the ones who have to do what he's doing,
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: you know. Not that they're one hundred percent still in charge.
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: It's changing. But if you're going to really change a
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: power dynamic, obviously those in power have to, you know,
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: put forth some kind of effort. And people really, I
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: think people really want to do that, right, really to
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: give away the keys to the kingdown. But good on him,
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: and he's like, you know, doing that, that's awesome.
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, great guy. By the way, and I will yeah,
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: by the way, I'll give you guys a Twitter intro.
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: I think you're you're really like that. No serious, Twitter
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: is I'm telling you, Kim. Twitter is one of the
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: best networking tools around and it's free, you know. I mean, look,
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: we've met over twenty Yeah.
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, that's a really good point.
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: Uh So you know, just to continue with your with
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: your career, Kim. I see you do The X Factor,
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: by the way, which I know you you music has
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: always been a huge part of your life. So I
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: see you do The X Factor in twenty twelve, and
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: I wanted to ask, you know, how did you, you know,
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: get into producing The X Factor.
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: I had worked with one of the showrunners for The
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: X Factor on another project and she got on X
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: Factor and she's like we need we need people like
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: you who can who can write, you know, who can
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: do story. Because initially they were going to try they
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: were trying to kind of revamp the show a little
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: bit so that there would be the packages on the
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: people who were competing and who were auditioning would be
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: a little more beefed up. And because, honestly, in so
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: many ways, like that's that's the heart of the show,
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: right are these people who have these dream of being
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: a musician and they're just and you see, you know,
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: you look into their lives and you see like how
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: hard they've been trying to do this and for how
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: long and a lot of them you know, started as
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: children and have you know, gone to Nashville or la
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: or you know, New York and you know, really sung
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: those little hearts out, you know, really tried the musicians.
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: So being on the show was such a huge deal
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: for them. So they brought me on to to put
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: together the packages on those people. Primarily I managed other
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: things but with the talent with Britney Spears and whatever,
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: but that was my main thing. And yeah, it was.
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: It was really heartwarming actually, and the show is the
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: show was a machine. I mean it was. I don't know,
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: I don't even know how many editors were working on
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: that show. I want to say twenty the big show.
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: It was a really big show. So yeah, it was.
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: It was an interesting experience.
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was gonna say, there must be like a
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: million people work that show. It came out like a
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: bullet too, because you know, all of a sudden, it
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: was like every uh, every time I turned around, I
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: saw something about The X Factor. I saw, uh, you know,
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: like a commercial for it, a billboard for it. Uh,
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: you know, I saw ads on Facebook. I mean that
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: that that show had so much going behind it, just
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: in marketing, you know what I mean. Like that's why
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: I'm always like the shows like that, And it's it's
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: an indicator too, because something has that much money in
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: it has to be, you know, what, the what the
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: network wanted, you know what I mean, it has to
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: be something that they view they feel is a is
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: a viable product. So I mean, so it is producing
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: for like live TV like that, ax. I know you
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: also after that, you've done a couple other of TV
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: series like Kendra on Top and Good Food America. So
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: when when you're producing like live TV, you know, was
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: that any adjustment or any for you of any kind,
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: because you know it's there really is no takebacks or edits,
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: so to speak.
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean on for the live portion of Ascager.
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: So there was a live portion, and there was all
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: the stuff that we did beforehand, and so but the
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: live portion there's like a thirty second or minute delay.
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: So everybody, you know, everybody again being a fine you know,
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: finally owned machine. Everybody has all of their kind of
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: all of their their roles that they play. And the
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: show wasn't always live because sometimes I'm trying to think, yeah,
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: it wasn't all. Oh, I'm thinking of the auditions.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show, okay.
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: Cause I'm just trying to think, cause we had to
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: cut together at one point, we literally cut together for
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: the audition part, which was you know, the kind of
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: like the not live part. Reaction shots for Britney Spears
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: and Simon and I'm playing on her name that we
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: would reuse. That we would reuse over and over again
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: because we didn't have enough reactions that were good, you know,
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: so we'd end up reusing their reactions, which is really
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: funny but for the live shows, yeah, there was a
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: slight delay. It was a CBS studios and it was
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: very you know, it was very choreographed, like everybody knew,
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: you know, exactly what what they were doing, and you know,
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: there were there were honestly, there were some surprises, but
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: kind of very few surprises.
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: So so basically, when when when you go through, like yeah,
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: working inside of uh, The X Factor, when you got
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: out when you I'm sorry, make it seem like you
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: were in jail. I'm sorry, let me let me rephrase
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: that question.
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: We got jail? Well, I mean, you know, like I said,
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: reality in doc TV was never my focus. It just
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: it just kind of happened because it was I was
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: having a really hard time getting into script getting getting directing,
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: you know, getting directing work, and getting hired as a writer.
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: So it was and it came really easy, you know,
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: it was you know, it was just it was just
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: very easy for me to do. It was like riding
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: a bike. It was not difficult.
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: But go ahead, before I I I was, I was uh,
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: you know, uh, making it seem like you were in jail.
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: So after you know, you were, you got done producing
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: The X Factor and you went into producing Kendron Top
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: and uh, you know also Good Food America and sex on.
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: So when you were producing these are all episodics, did
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: you sort of see Kim like how things were sort
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: of progressing in terms of, you know, all the top
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: talented people were moving, you know, out of out of
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: the film industry and now, as they say, all the
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: all the top talented people are working in a TV industry.
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, I I know people.
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: I have a friend who went to Princeton undergrad and
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: went to USC grad for screenwriting and is now one
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: of the executive producers on vander Pump Rules, like you know,
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: but he's one of the reasons I have no doubt
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: that the show is successful because he's a brilliant talented person,
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: you know, and that even though these shows are not
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: you know, House of Cards, there's still they require storytelling
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: and they require a lot of you know, filmic kind
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: of films, you know, a lot of skills. And that
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: really did happen in like around two thousand just like
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: you know, once the recession hit in like two thousand
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: and eight, two thousand and nine, film opportunities really started
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: drawing up. And my manager sat me down. He's like,
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: you have to write television now. I was like, what
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: are you talking about? Like I just finished film school,
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: Like why do I don't want to write television? And
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: you know, at the time, like I mean, Sopranos I
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: think had just ended, the Wire had been on, but
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: there wasn't a lot of you know, great, there wasn't
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: a ton of everything had to be at that at
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: that point standalone. You know, people didn't want the Sopranos
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: per se, or they didn't want the Wire. They didn't
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: want something that you know, told a story over a season,
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: and you know, and like anything else TV, it was
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: hard to get into. There wasn't as much of it
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: as there is now. Blah blah blah blah. So yeah,
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: Reality came in and everybody just kind of went that
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: way because it was easier to get jobs on reality
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: and if you knew how to write a script or
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: had any kind of production experience, it was it was easy.
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: So yeah, a lot of a lot of talent went
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: to reality and dark stuff and Kendra on Top was
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: actually really funny because I hate Hugh Hefner, I hate
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: and I don't I'm you know, I'm a feminist who
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: believes he putting women in bunny ears and little outfits
• 34:34
  Speaker 4: and making them look really fuckable was not an advancement
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: for women. And but I got a call story produced
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: on the show called Kendra on Top. But I had
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: no idea who Kendra Wilkinson was. I had never watched
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: The Girls next Door, and obviously I hate Hugh Heffner,
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: so you know, I was like, well, I don't really
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: think i'm a good good for that, and the person's like, no, really,
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: you should go in and just just check it out.
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: You know, she's actually, you know her story it's a
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: light show. It's kind of a comedy, and you know
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: she's she's you know, she's married as a kid, and
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: it's not that kind of show, and she's kind of,
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: you know, a tough chick. So I was like, okay,
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: So I went in and got the job and had
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: never really story produced per se, and which basically, do
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: you know what story producing is? Yeah, So it's just
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: basically you're taking the footage that was shot and cutting
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: it into what is essentially kind of like the rough
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: cut that you that's the that's then going to be
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: given to the editor. So I did that it was
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: the first I was given the first episode of the
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: first season of the show. It was a new show
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: that she was doing for WE TV. Previously she had
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: been on e TV, so the network was really, you know,
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: kind of putting it through its paces, as they do
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: when it's you know, a pilot, when it's you know,
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: it's his first show of a season. And I got
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: kind of close with the very eccentric executive producer of
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: the show. And and by close, I just mean he
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: would scream at me a little less than he screams
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: every house because he was a screamer, and we got along,
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: you know, I was able to get along with him
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: for whatever reason. And but the guy who was my boss,
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: the supervising story producer who works that position, works really
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: closely with the field in crafting the stories and making
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: sure that you know, the stories are are you know,
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: that everything that's in the story is shot, and that
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: you know, episodes track from episode to episode and across
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: the entire season, or character arcs or story arcs, all
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: that stuff. That guy, within like two or three weeks,
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: really great guy named Kevin I'm still friends with. Couldn't
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: take couldn't take the environment at that production company more
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: and quit just walk like just no notice. It's just
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: like I can't do this anymore. And so they tapped
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: me for whatever reason. Again, I never even story produced,
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: and they were like, will you be the supervising story
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: producer on the show? And I was like sure, yeah,
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: of course, you know. And I called Kevin, I'm like, okay,
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: what am I supposed to do as a superflaving story producer?
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: And he basically told me. I was like, okay, all right,
• 37:26
  Speaker 4: and it was it was easy and it was fun.
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: I don't watch reality TV. I the only episodes of
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: Kendra on Top I've ever seen are the ones that
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: we made. But it was fun to make it, you know,
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: it was it was kind of fun television to make it.
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: And I ended up doing it for two seasons because
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: I was at the time writing this kind of in depth,
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: intense sci fi script feature script and it was great.
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: It was a great job to have when I was writing.
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: So that's Kendra and Talk.
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: So can I have to ask, when you know you
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: touched on somebody who was a real big screamer, how
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: do you handle situations like that? You know, everyone has
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: sort of a different idea of how to handle that
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: where somebody who maybe is your boss or maybe someone
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: who is your coworker, they're just very hard to handle
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: on a film set. Uh, how were you able to
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: handle handle it so well?
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: I just it was a combination of just waiting it
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: out and or getting up and leaving, and at one
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: point I did in that first season. I just got
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: up and left and I was just like, I'm done,
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: and his kind of second guy in charge or whatever
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: like called me repeatedly on the way home, please don't quit,
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: Please don't quit. He's so sorry, Please don't leave. And
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: I was just like I can't. I just I can't.
• 38:57
  Speaker 4: You know, that's it's completely inappropriate, the yelling. And I
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: don't know if he had said something personal or I
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: don't remember what it was. But and then the guy
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: himself called and apologized, and I was like, okay, whatever,
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: I guess, I guess I'll go back. And then, you know,
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: of course, like all the cereal whatever whatever, he was
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: nice after that. I think, you know, the entertainment business
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: is a tough business, and I think any business way
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: they're you know, there was a good McSweeney's thing recently saying,
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: you know, if women you know you are you familiar
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: with McSweeney's. Yeah, yeah, everything's all tongue in cheek, and
• 39:42
  Speaker 4: it was like kind of you know, if women can't
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: handle the entertainment business, they should get out. You know.
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: It was kind of funny. They can't handle you know,
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: having meetings in a hotel room, you know that, you
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: know instead of you know, at a table. Then you know,
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: they're too sensitive and they should get out.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: And then it was like, you know, maybe they should
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: go into television, you know that, like talking about like
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: Bill Bill O'Reilly and you know, and maybe they can't
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: handle television, maybe they should go into tech, you know.
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: And then it goes into tech where the guy next
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: to you is like, you know, writing an essay on
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: why women are inferior, and you know, women are getting
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: hit on when they're pitching their app ideas. And if
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: you don't want to do tech, you should go to politics,
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: you know, where the president of the United States and
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: you know, saying grab them by their pussy. So it
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: was just it was really hilarious and it kind of
• 40:37
  Speaker 4: it kind of detailed, like I think women have it
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: tough obviously in every industry, and there's I don't know,
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: maybe there's more of a put up with it miss
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: that women have. Uh, I don't know, but yeah, I
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: mean typically if somebody, this particular person I felt was
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: at the end of the day harmless and just kind
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: of crazy, and it wasn't. I was never sexually harassed
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: or anything like that. It wasn't that kind of thing
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: at all. I think if I'd ever felt. Actually, I
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: did work at Miramax back in the day when I
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: first started, and did walk away with a check because
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: the environment was a sexist environment, and at the time,
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: I just I went into the guy was working for
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: Who's funny This guy has now come out and said, oh,
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: it's so crazy that Harvey wants he was acting this way.
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: I walked through the office and said, you know, it's
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: obvious I'm not the kind of assistant that you want.
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: Maybe you should just you know, write me at check
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: and I'll leave. And he handed me a check request
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: I walked it down to account's payable and I left
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: that company. It was a horrible company and everybody knew it.
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: So yeah, no, I think I think it depends on
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: the situation. I think there are certain types of situations
• 42:03
  Speaker 4: I would never stand for. You know, I would never
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: stand for to be sexually harassed in an environment. But
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: screamers and you know, emotional people who are creatives who
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: lose their their ship from time to time. That kind
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: of just comes with the territory with creative people. They're
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: not always the most professional business types that you're ever
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: going to deal with, you know, same with talent, you know,
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: you never I mean, I don't know. Creative types are
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: just more emotional and there's a part of it that
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: you just kind of got to accept that and roll
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: with it.
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I concur there's the worst person I've ever had
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: to work with was a director of cinematography who, uh, well,
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: it's actually toss up the worst person ever work with,
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: but mine was a director of cinematography who thought that
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: he was God's gift to everybody. And oh yeah that guy,
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah that you work with him too? All right, no, no,
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: just about it. But yeah, we're exactly right. Everyone's got
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: a story about that guy. But uh, what happened was
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: he he actually was was like kindes setting to everybody.
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: So finally I call him over and he and I started,
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: you know, I said to him, did did is there
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: something wrong?
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: Is there?
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: Did somebody say something to you? Is there something that happened?
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: Let's just talk this out. And he basically took that
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: as I wanted to fight him, and he just yeah,
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: And I was like, and I said, are you serious
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: right now? And finally this it was we were just
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: about the day was just about over anyway, and we
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: just broke early that day and I said, this guy
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: is never coming back. It's gotta we got to make
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: a decision. I went to the producers and I said,
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: you have to make a decision. Either he goes or
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: I go, like, this is absolutely terrible, and uh, they
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: chose me, and they were like, yeah, we're we're we
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: don't like him either, because apparently he mouthed off to
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: them too. And I'm like, oh good, we all hate him.
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: We're in agreements, all right.
• 43:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, So it didn't come to fistic cups. You
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: didn't have to like, no, you didn't have to fight them.
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: No, No, I'd have to fight them that god, because
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: we were in a public place too, so it wouldn't
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: have gone well for anybody. It would have been Uh,
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: it wasn't like on like a close set. It was
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: like we were in the middle of the open, so
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: in a public place, so we would have gotten and
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: we had permission to shoot and everything like that. It's
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: just that, you know, uh, two guys fighting in the
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: middle of Philadelphia doesn't really bode well.
• 44:25
  Speaker 4: But right, right, yeah, No, That's the other thing, right,
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: is that in addition to emotions and feelings, you have egos,
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: right that you know that some people their egos get
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: out of whack, and whether it's because there they have
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: a ton of self doubt you know, buried underneath, or
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: because they think they're too good for the situation or
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: the film or the project or you know whatever, which again,
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: if they think that, it's probably just all boiled down
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: to self doubt. But yeah, it's it's it's tough. It's
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: a tough business. And a lot of times, you know, especially.
• 45:06
  Speaker 5: You know in film and TV, and I need to
• 45:08
  Speaker 5: tell you, you know, people are calling in favors or
• 45:12
  Speaker 5: there's I don't know, there's there's always a million different
• 45:15
  Speaker 5: things going on with every single person that's on set.
• 45:18
  Speaker 5: And you've either become like a family in a few weeks,
• 45:23
  Speaker 5: a happy family, or you become a really dysfunctional, angry family,
• 45:27
  Speaker 5: you know, depending on the crew.
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: So usually yeah, usually for me it's the latter. We
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: become like this cpunctural family. Yeah, you love to hate
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: him and hate to love them.
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: So it's right, yeah, exactly exactly. But boy do you
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: miss him and you see him on Facebook You're like,
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: oh my god, like what he just fended? I love
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: that guy, you know, yeah two years later?
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, right, because you end up being ends up
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: being a small world. And uh, you know, as you
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: should have, go from project to project and and and
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: you sort of meet all these familiar faces. But but
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: you know, Kim, I want to add and this is
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: the you know, we actually met because I saw you know,
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: this project being tweeted out and I wanted to ask
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: how you got involved with Gaga five foot two Lady Gaga.
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: Obviously I'm even gonna I mean, I think everyone listening
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: knows who she is, that's even under a rock for
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: the past ten years. Yeah, yeah, I think everybody knows
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: who Lady Gaga is. So I wanted to ask Kim,
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: you know, how did you get involved with with the project.
• 46:25
  Speaker 4: So Chris mccarvil, the director, and I had worked together
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: on sex On. So we met on the HBO show
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: sex On, which is a show about how sex and
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: relationships exist online and with technology. So it's all about like,
• 46:41
  Speaker 4: you know, sex, relationships, love and technology. And he and
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: I are both super into music and technology and the
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: Internet and sci fi. And we were kind of a
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: love fest when we first met. And so after sex
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: on On, we did the that pilot that I was
• 47:03
  Speaker 4: telling you about, the Russian trolls and you know, they
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: had to do with the Internet of things kind of,
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: and then we did another project that was also kind
• 47:15
  Speaker 4: of like a development project. And then he had he
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: had a meeting with Live Nation and they said that
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: they might have this Lady Gaga documentary that there was
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: potential for him to direct it, and he got he
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: got really excited because, oh there might you know, this
• 47:33
  Speaker 4: might happen. I was like, okay, well, you know, He's like,
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: I really want you to produce that. I'm like, all right, great,
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: Well let me know if it happened, because it just
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: didn't seem it just seemed like kind of a long shot,
• 47:42
  Speaker 4: you know. And so then I think it was almost
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: like a month later. A month went by and he
• 47:50
  Speaker 4: went he met with God's producer Bobby Campbell, and he
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: and Bobby really hit it off. And he called me
• 48:00
  Speaker 4: and he's like, I met with her manager. I really
• 48:03
  Speaker 4: liked him. He's super cool. I think it's really going
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: to happen. And I was like, okay, great. He's like
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: I was, okay, great. Well, you know, just because you know,
• 48:11
  Speaker 4: I mean, there's always something, right, like, there's always two
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: or three or four projects that are maybe going to
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: happen or could happen, or you know, and then they'll
• 48:21
  Speaker 4: all go away and then something else will come up.
• 48:23
  Speaker 4: But you just never know. And I was so I
• 48:25
  Speaker 4: wasn't really super excited about it. I just didn't. I
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: thought it's kind of cool, and you know, obviously I
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: would would have been thrilled, but I just didn't know.
• 48:35
  Speaker 4: And then and then another few weeks ago by I
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: feel like and he called me and he's like, okay,
• 48:40
  Speaker 4: I got a call to go and film her at
• 48:42
  Speaker 4: her house tomorrow. And I'm like, no way, and he's
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: like yeah, He's like it's happening. It's happening, and I
• 48:49
  Speaker 4: was like, okay. So we got him. He had a
• 48:53
  Speaker 4: camera and I think we just used a lens that
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: he already had, because I don't think we even had
• 48:59
  Speaker 4: a and play shet. We ended up shooting on canc
• 49:02
  Speaker 4: three hundreds using a vice super speed Bungses fixed lenses,
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: which was which was an immense challenge in some way
• 49:14
  Speaker 4: stupid of us, but also brilliant because it allowed us
• 49:17
  Speaker 4: to you always had to be close to her to
• 49:19
  Speaker 4: film her within like a few feet, and I think
• 49:22
  Speaker 4: you feel that in the film, which is what we wanted.
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: We really wanted it to feel like a because he
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: because so he goes and shoots this one day and
• 49:31
  Speaker 4: he comes back and we sit down and watch all
• 49:32
  Speaker 4: this footage and we're going to cut together this little
• 49:35
  Speaker 4: kind of teaser to give to Live Nation, and we're
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: watching it and it's like he really got a sense,
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: and you really get a scent of the footage she
• 49:43
  Speaker 4: shot the first day, a lot of which ended up
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: in the film. Of what of what it was going
• 49:49
  Speaker 4: to be like filming her, that it was going to
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: be this really rare close up view of her.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: Will be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 50:08
  Speaker 4: And then it was gonna be like this door would
• 50:10
  Speaker 4: open and we'd go in, or just he would go
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: in or whatever and then film and then the door shuts,
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: you know, and then so we knew that, and that
• 50:20
  Speaker 4: kind of contributed to the lenses and the camera that
• 50:23
  Speaker 4: we chose and the way we chose to film it.
• 50:26
  Speaker 4: We couldn't have a big crew. You know, you're not
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: going to go into her house or get on her
• 50:30
  Speaker 4: plane or go into her studio when she's recording with
• 50:33
  Speaker 4: five people. She's never going to happen. So we needed
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: to do something that was compact, that would allow for
• 50:40
  Speaker 4: you know, just a DP, a very discreet sound person
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: who knew how to you know, who could get out
• 50:44
  Speaker 4: of the way and often not mike her and then
• 50:50
  Speaker 4: a camera set up that you know, Chris could use
• 50:53
  Speaker 4: if he needed to. I shot for a minute in
• 50:58
  Speaker 4: one of the locations. I think I shot the last
• 51:00
  Speaker 4: stuff of the film where she's talking about Shart, where
• 51:05
  Speaker 4: she's a short in the credits, like I was shooting
• 51:08
  Speaker 4: that in Nashville. But yeah, so so he did that.
• 51:13
  Speaker 4: We put together thing for Live Nation and they were like,
• 51:16
  Speaker 4: you know, and then the next call I got was
• 51:17
  Speaker 4: Chris on the phone with one of the vps at
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: Five Nations saying, Okay, we need a budget and a
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: schedule and this is the budget, and it was just like, oh, okay,
• 51:27
  Speaker 4: I guess this is happening. I guess I guess we're
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: making this movie. So literally, we just immediately were in
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: production like it just like it was like it was
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: happening right then, right it was going and we knew
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: we were going to get a call soon to shoot again.
• 51:44
  Speaker 4: And we sat down with her manager. We sat down
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: with Bobby and he kind of gave me a rundown
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: of all of the things that she had coming up
• 51:54
  Speaker 4: over the summer. This was like in June of last
• 51:56
  Speaker 4: year of twenty sixteen, and he just kind of gave us,
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: you know, this rundown, like, these are all the things
• 52:01
  Speaker 4: she has coming up. Let us know which ones would
• 52:04
  Speaker 4: be interesting for you guys to film, you know, whatever
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: you think, These are the things that we think would
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: be good. These are the days she's filming in Malibu,
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: These are the days she's filming in New York or
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: not filming. I'm sorry. These are days she's making the record.
• 52:18
  Speaker 4: This is the day she's recording in New York. These
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: are days she's recording in LA And you know, if
• 52:22
  Speaker 4: you want to do those that you know, let us know,
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: you know what, you know who's coming in, because Florence
• 52:29
  Speaker 4: Welsh came in, and you know, there were days that
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: obviously Mark Ronson was going to be there and Blood
• 52:35
  Speaker 4: Pop and other people that she was collaborating with that
• 52:39
  Speaker 4: we wanted to make sure we got and so yeah,
• 52:42
  Speaker 4: we literally just it's like the door opened and we
• 52:46
  Speaker 4: were in and we were making the film and we started.
• 52:50
  Speaker 4: We didn't know. We didn't know that she was up
• 52:53
  Speaker 4: for the super Bowl, Like, we didn't even know that.
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: And I think within Tuma we knew that she was
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: up for it. And there's scene I think after she
• 53:04
  Speaker 4: does the DNC performance she's in the car. I think
• 53:08
  Speaker 4: this is still in the movie. No, I can't remember
• 53:11
  Speaker 4: right now, but but Bobby says to her, you know,
• 53:17
  Speaker 4: I think we got it, or you know, or I
• 53:19
  Speaker 4: think we're going to get or she it looks like
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: we might get it. She's like, I think we're going
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: to get it. And it was kind of news to
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: us that she was even up for it. Once we
• 53:29
  Speaker 4: knew she was up for it, we were just like,
• 53:30
  Speaker 4: she's going to get it. Of course she's going to
• 53:31
  Speaker 4: get it, and we wanted her to get it because
• 53:35
  Speaker 4: we were like, this is the end of the movie,
• 53:37
  Speaker 4: you know we're watching because we just felt it immediately.
• 53:40
  Speaker 4: It was like, this is the end of the movie.
• 53:41
  Speaker 4: Because she hadn't made an album in three years. She
• 53:45
  Speaker 4: was making a new album. It was a huge departure
• 53:48
  Speaker 4: from a lot of her dance music that you know,
• 53:50
  Speaker 4: she had done fire and she was also you know,
• 53:55
  Speaker 4: she was doing this whole new look where she was
• 53:57
  Speaker 4: wearing jeans and T shirts and instead of these crazy
• 54:01
  Speaker 4: costumes and you know, these beautiful costumes i should say,
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: in masks and whatever else. It was very stripped down
• 54:08
  Speaker 4: and it was it was completely new. So to see
• 54:12
  Speaker 4: her do that to the course of the film and
• 54:15
  Speaker 4: then to be able to to you know, to and
• 54:18
  Speaker 4: also to kind of see her in this really stripped
• 54:20
  Speaker 4: down raw real way that we were seeing her, and
• 54:25
  Speaker 4: then to have the end of it because and there
• 54:26
  Speaker 4: were no you know, she wasn't on tour. We filmed
• 54:29
  Speaker 4: her a million times, you know, doing shows or performances,
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: but they were all they were all pretty small. She
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: did a dive bar tour, she did the DNC, She
• 54:36
  Speaker 4: did Tony Bennett study a birthday, she did pr stuff,
• 54:41
  Speaker 4: She performed in Tokyo, but nothing like you know, one
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: of her concerts or you know, or in a stadium
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: or like the super Bowl. So you know, it was
• 54:51
  Speaker 4: just such a it was just such a no brainer.
• 54:53
  Speaker 4: And we knew she was up. Four said, oh, this
• 54:55
  Speaker 4: is the end and we can see so that we
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: see this person this you know, and I'm five nine,
• 55:01
  Speaker 4: so to me, this is like so small. We were
• 55:03
  Speaker 4: in the edit. I was like explaining to the editor
• 55:06
  Speaker 4: who hadn't met her yet but of course had spent
• 55:08
  Speaker 4: thousands of hours with her, you know in his mind,
• 55:11
  Speaker 4: you know, in reality, you know, watching her on on screen,
• 55:16
  Speaker 4: and I was like, it's so amazing because she's like
• 55:19
  Speaker 4: this little person. I mean again to me, because I've
• 55:22
  Speaker 4: always felt as a woman, I've always felt big because
• 55:24
  Speaker 4: I'm I'm almost five to nine. And and then I
• 55:28
  Speaker 4: just I kind of started saying, he pops you know
• 55:30
  Speaker 4: on fat Foot? Was he on fat Foot one? And
• 55:34
  Speaker 4: And that ended up being a possible title. Chris was like, oh,
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: maybe that's the title we had. We had a million
• 55:40
  Speaker 4: titles and we could not naming anything is the worst,
• 55:44
  Speaker 4: so that ends up going on the on the title list.
• 55:48
  Speaker 4: And but yeah, so it was it was a real
• 55:52
  Speaker 4: windfall for her to do the super Bowl because then
• 55:53
  Speaker 4: we could see this strip down, small person do this
• 55:57
  Speaker 4: thing that was larger than life and see how she
• 55:59
  Speaker 4: did it. You know, for us, anybody can go on
• 56:01
  Speaker 4: YouTube and watch her super Bowl performance from beginning to end.
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: What we wanted to see was the viewpoint of what
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: it's like backstage, what it's like when she's you know,
• 56:12
  Speaker 4: rehearsing in her fat pants, you know, when her hip
• 56:15
  Speaker 4: hurts in the in that back room, and that back
• 56:18
  Speaker 4: room really was where everybody hung out and stayed. It's
• 56:20
  Speaker 4: not a beautiful place, you know, it's like, but that's
• 56:23
  Speaker 4: the reality of what it's like behind the scenes. And
• 56:28
  Speaker 4: for us, it was you know, all of it was
• 56:30
  Speaker 4: kind of fascinating and it was really it was really
• 56:34
  Speaker 4: fascinating to be to be in that world for the
• 56:38
  Speaker 4: time that we were in it.
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: So what was your most memorable experience, you know, making
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: the making this documentary?
• 56:50
  Speaker 4: Yeh, there were so many, I mean the most the
• 56:53
  Speaker 4: thing that one of the things that really stuck with
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: me was everywhere we went with her. You know, you'd
• 57:02
  Speaker 4: go in an suv, you know, there'd be like several
• 57:05
  Speaker 4: black SUVs or vehicles and you'd enter through the security
• 57:11
  Speaker 4: entrance and go up a back elevator. You enter, you
• 57:16
  Speaker 4: enter space is the most ugly way, you know what
• 57:19
  Speaker 4: I mean, Like you kind of enter every space. You're
• 57:21
  Speaker 4: like the same way a messenger might enter that space,
• 57:24
  Speaker 4: you know, or something like that, just the most you know,
• 57:27
  Speaker 4: you're not going typically through the palatial you know, front
• 57:32
  Speaker 4: entrances of any of anywhere. You're always just going through
• 57:35
  Speaker 4: the bottom to get her up to a back room.
• 57:38
  Speaker 4: It's like a green room, fitting room and it and
• 57:40
  Speaker 4: she's in you know, a make a hair room with
• 57:44
  Speaker 4: all of her you know, closest people who are helping.
• 57:48
  Speaker 4: And then there's you know, another room that's all the
• 57:50
  Speaker 4: production people and the musician related people, and you know,
• 57:53
  Speaker 4: I mean there's there's several rooms of people wherever she
• 57:56
  Speaker 4: goes whenever she performs it for anything or doesn't appear.
• 58:00
  Speaker 4: And the interesting thing was so that was interesting. And
• 58:04
  Speaker 4: then we would go we would go in you know
• 58:06
  Speaker 4: that way, and then we'd go and set up our
• 58:08
  Speaker 4: cameras you know, and sound or whatever, and then go
• 58:11
  Speaker 4: back down to the street to film. Often and the
• 58:15
  Speaker 4: barricades would be up and all these people would be
• 58:17
  Speaker 4: out there like waiting for her and we'd be filming
• 58:19
  Speaker 4: from behind the barricades, and it was a really surreal
• 58:22
  Speaker 4: experience because you just see how much these people revere her,
• 58:29
  Speaker 4: and you know, at one point, she did a show
• 58:31
  Speaker 4: in la and I was interviewing people because that one
• 58:35
  Speaker 4: might be interesting for the film because your album had
• 58:37
  Speaker 4: just come out, to talk to people about her and
• 58:41
  Speaker 4: her music and you know why they were such fans.
• 58:44
  Speaker 4: And afterwards, I walked into the venue and just like
• 58:48
  Speaker 4: start crying because I was like, oh my god. You know,
• 58:51
  Speaker 4: like people it's not just you know, hero worship or whatever.
• 58:54
  Speaker 4: It's like people identify with her because of her message
• 58:57
  Speaker 4: of if you don't fit in, if you're an outsider,
• 59:02
  Speaker 4: that's cool. You know, that's a great thing to be,
• 59:05
  Speaker 4: you know, especially from me born this way and all that.
• 59:08
  Speaker 4: So that was that was a huge That was kind
• 59:11
  Speaker 4: of that was super memorable. It's also memorable when she
• 59:15
  Speaker 4: we were in Tokyo and we were she was getting
• 59:19
  Speaker 4: she was practicing for this performance on this show, and
• 59:24
  Speaker 4: I was filming. I think I was filming Chris filming her,
• 59:27
  Speaker 4: So I think I was just filming with an iPhone,
• 59:29
  Speaker 4: so I was filming him filming her, and she walked
• 59:32
  Speaker 4: over to me. She's like, I'm really sorry, but this
• 59:36
  Speaker 4: is a close set. We just really need to focus
• 59:39
  Speaker 4: on this show. And like she was kicking me out.
• 59:43
  Speaker 4: I was like I looked at her, I go, it's me.
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: It's Kim.
• 59:49
  Speaker 4: For the doc. And she's like, oh my god, so far.
• 59:53
  Speaker 4: She's like, you're like me, You're like a chameleon.
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 4: I never She's like, you always give your hair Gibbert.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 4: I never know. She's like, it always takes me a
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 4: minute to know it's you know, And she was like
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 4: so THO like hugged me and was like I'm really sorry.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 4: But it was like we've been filming her for like
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 4: two months at that point, and I was like, really,
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: you're kicking me out, Like obviously I got to stay.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 4: But yeah, so that was funny. We really I mean,
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 4: that just also just goes to speak to we really
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 4: tried to be slies on the wall, like we weren't.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 4: It's it's one hundred percent different than making reality TEA.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 4: When you're making reality TV, it's like, Okay, Kendred, this
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 4: is a scene. So you're gonna come in and you're
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 4: gonna be mad at this person for what they said
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 4: or what you thought they said, and you guys are
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 4: gonna have an argument. Okay, everybody ready, Okay, action, you know,
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 4: you know what I mean. And then they improvised it
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 4: out however they're going to do. And but making a doc,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 4: especially about Lady Gaga, who is actually doing things in
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 4: the moment, and you know, whether she's rehearsing for the
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 4: suit Puer Bowl or for a program she's about to
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 4: be on in Tokyo or making a record, she is busy,
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 4: and so you're not the last thing you're trying to
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 4: do is to get in her way, you know.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, I mean, because I imagine, you know,
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: she the why you're where you're describing a kim She
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: had a small army and then to make a film
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: as a small army. So it's so now you make
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: up a giant yeah.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 4: So yeah, And the army was often just Chris and I.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 4: Our army was typically Chris and myself and a sound
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 4: person and a DP that was typically we didn't even
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 4: have We often didn't even have a PA. In fact,
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 4: we didn't even have a data transfer a person. I
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 4: would at the end of the shoot day do all
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 4: the data transfer from the cards to drives in my
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 4: hotel room. I did. I did all that because A
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: I didn't trust anybody with the footage and be there
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 4: was just was no there was just no point and
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 4: you know, and bring We couldn't really bring anybody else on.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 4: At one point in New York, we had a pa
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 4: for a little while to drive us a place and
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 4: sort of go grab stuff if we needed it, but
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 4: we didn't really you know, or we've had we had
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 4: a production coordinator in LA that we'd have in the
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 4: inner office. We had two production coordinators here in LA
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 4: that we would have go do stuff or whatever. But
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 4: typically when we were filming, it was it was super minimal.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was going to say, I imagine it was
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 3: probably like see, it's gruel of filmmaking. You know, you're
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: getting your hands dirty. You know you're one minute your producer,
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 3: next minute, you know you're transferring footage. It's all for
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: the love of the game, right Kim, Yes, exactly, it is.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 4: I think you know, if you love it, if that's
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 4: you love, then you don't care because you love it,
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 4: you know, and I really love filmmaking and I love storytelling,
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 4: and you know what's not to love about, you know,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 4: running around with a camera after Lady Gaga. I mean,
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 4: you know, there's no you're not going to complain about that.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 4: So yeah, it was it was great. It was fun.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: And were you surprised when Netflix picked us up?
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 4: No, not really, because yeah, the film was financed by
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 4: Live Nation and there were multiple people who were interested
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 4: and so I mean I even have friends who who
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 4: buy films for studios and they were interested. So we
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 4: kind of we just didn't know who the buyer was
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 4: going to be. That was up and that was that
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 4: was up to Live Nations, so they controlled the movie.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: And the film is on Netflix right now, correct, Yes
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: it is.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 4: You can stream it from the comfort of your own home.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 4: You don't have to leave the house, you can go. Yeah,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 4: you can watch it any time anywhere.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: And I will also link to that in the show
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: Not as Long with a trailer and all the other
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: good stuff that you know, Kim and I have discussed
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: in this in this whole conversation. Kim, I just have
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: one more question before we close out. You know, what
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 3: are you working on next?
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 4: So right now, as we speak, I'm waiting to hear
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 4: from an editor whose name is Darren Navarre. He's a
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 4: great editor who's done I love Dick and Ballers and
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 4: those two shows together are not right. And also he edited,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 4: he edited Yeah, I'm sorry, Yeah, I turned my friend no,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 4: but he entered this. He edited the film the end
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 4: of the tour with Jesse Eisenberg as well, and he's
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 4: just a great editor. So he's overseeing the edit on
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 4: a short film I just shot called I directed, I
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 4: wrote and directed called Violet's New Life. And it's a
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 4: short but it's also uh kind of a it's a
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 4: it's a pilot presentation, it's BRIT's a show presentation. It's
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 4: about The short is about Violet, who takes place maybe
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 4: five or ten years in the future, who just had
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 4: her mind downloaded into a thirty five year old synthetic
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 4: version of herself. She had a terminal illness at seventy
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 4: two and decided to go ahead and have her mind
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 4: downloaded into a synthetic body. And so she is picked
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 4: up by her adopted daughter Joyce and they go to
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 4: her funeral and that's the short film. So the show
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 4: is basically the show is called Violets New Life, and
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 4: it's about Violet acclimating to life as a thirty five
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 4: year old and you know, I mean to be seventy
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 4: two and a thirty five year old body. It's pretty crazy.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 4: So it's you know, again, I'm super interested in technology,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 4: and I don't want to die. I don't want to die,
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 4: and I don't really even if there is an afterlife,
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 4: which will hope, you know, let's hope there's something else.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 4: I'm not conscious of it now. I don't know what
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 4: that is. That kind of pisses me off, and it
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 4: piss me off that my life is so short. So
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 4: but then, you know, when you think, okay, so great,
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 4: what if you know, you take all of your life's experiences,
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 4: you live to your seventy two and you get to
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 4: be thirty five again, looks that like, you know, what,
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 4: how do you acclimate to life? You know, knowing everything
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 4: you know and being able to do that? So yeah,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 4: So that's the show is like a it's like a
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 4: thirty minute drama y along the lines of Transparent or
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 4: Insecure or I Love Dick or Glow. So so yeah,
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 4: so I'm I've written the first two episodes and kind
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 4: of outlined the first few seasons and we'll be taking
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 4: that out in the next month or two and submitting
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 4: it to festival, the short the short film to Festival.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: And so that's why I'm organic, Well, I was gonna say,
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: I because I know, again, as we're talking about TV,
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: that's where it's at right now. And uh, you know,
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 3: I even when I discuss things, uh you know, I
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 3: don't have an agent manager, but as soon as I
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 3: just start discussing things with a myriad of people, they
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: always say, well, do you have like a TV pilot
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 3: or something or anything TV episodic related? And I'm always like, well,
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 3: I I you know, I'm kind of slow, Kim, but
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 3: I started to notice a pattern and I'm like, okay,
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: I see it, so uh, by the I mean. And
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: I even shot a TV pilot myself a couple of
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 3: years ago, and I actually put it up on YouTube
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 3: right now, so it's yeah, it was actually pretty cool
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 3: because where I shot. Right after me, we shot it
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 3: at a studio right down the street from my house
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 3: and here in Philadelphia, and right after us m Night
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 3: Shamlan came in to shoot After Earth with Will Smith.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 3: So yeah, they were like guys, you have to leave
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 3: soon because well m night, Shamlan and Will Smith are
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 3: coming in the day after you guys break. I'm like,
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 3: all right, we'll have everything cleaned up. So but yeah,
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 3: I have it up on YouTube right now. It's all free.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 3: It's pretty cool U. But but yeah, I mean see,
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 3: so that that's one of the things I hope people
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 3: take away is, uh, you know, you don't want to
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: be in a room and they somebody asks what else
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 3: you got and You're like, well, I don't have any
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 3: episodic stuff, because I now realize that's the way in
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 3: uh right now is to make sure you have episodic things.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 3: But so, Kim, I want to say, it's been a
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: blast talking to you. Where can people find you out online?
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 4: You know, on Twitter? I'm on Instagram. I am Kim
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 4: Ray on Instagram, Kim Ray on Twitter. Pretty much. I
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 4: don't have a website. I've been toying with the idea
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 4: of a website, but I'm kind of like, you know,
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 4: what am I going to do? Putt put clips from
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 4: my movies or pages from my scripts on a web
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 4: I don't know. I'm not sold on having a website
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 4: right now.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 3: But what do you think, well, I think really depends
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 3: up on what your strategy is, because I think if
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 3: you're gonna if you're gonna mainly be you know, talking
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 3: to other people and and sharing like trailers and stuff
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 3: like that. Uh you know. I again, I'm big on Twitter,
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 3: and I think it's where you feel the most comfortable.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: That that's usually my my advice because you know, any
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 3: any tool is only as good as the person that
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: wields it. So yeah, that's my sage advice.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 4: Kim.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 3: I sound very sad, but well, thank you, Thank you
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 3: very much everybody. I will link to everything Kim and
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: I talked about in the show in the show notes
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: at my website Dave Bilis dot com U So if
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 3: you go there for for all the podcasts, all the
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 3: other stuff that I'm doing, all the craziness and everyone.
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: I want to say thank you so much for listening.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 4: Kim.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 3: I want to say thank you so much for coming on.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 3: This has been an absolute blast, and I hope everyone
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: checks out Gaga five foot two. By the way, Kim,
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 3: do you know Gaga follows.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 4: Me on Twitter?
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 3: No way, I'm dead serious. I swear she follows me
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 3: on Twitter.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 4: Oh my god, Judi have follow me on Twitter because
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 4: I never asked. I should ask her social media person,
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 4: can she please follow me? I don't think she follows
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 4: even her manager Bobby and I follow each other on Instagram.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 4: But yeah, wow, you're you're that's that's pretty impressive.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: I don't even remember. Can you believe this, Kim? I
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 3: don't even remember how it happened. I just remember one
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 3: day I was like, what, this can't be the real
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 3: And it's the real Lady Gaga verified and everything, and
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 3: she follows my personal Wow. Yeah, seriously, you should m it.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 4: You should DM her.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 3: I should. I should be like, hey, I had your
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 3: producer on on the podcast, come on.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 4: Tell her, tell her that's awesome.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 3: She'd like, I said that person I kicked out off
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 3: the set that one day, Like it's the same one, Goga,
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 3: that's funny. Kim. I would have say, again, thank you
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 3: so much for coming on, and uh, I wish you
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 3: the best.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 4: All right, thanks so much, Thank you too.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 3: Than take care, Kim.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: a great job on this episode. If you want to
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: head over to the show notes at any film uncle
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: dot com Forward Slash seven eighty six. If you haven't already,
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: please head over to Filmmaking podcast dot com, subscribe and
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: leave a good review for the show. It really helps
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: us out a lot, guys. Thank you again so much
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: for listening to guys. As always, keep that hustle going,
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: keep that dream alive, Stay safe out there, and I'll
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: talk to you soon.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle Podcast at
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: indiefilm hustle dot com.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 3: That's I N D I E F I L M
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 3: h
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: U S T l E dot com.