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Why Chasing “The Right Guy” Keeps You Stuck And How To Build The Partnership You Deserve · No Shrinking Violets Podcast for Women

0:05
Mary: Welcome to No Shrinking Violets.
0:07
Mary: I'm your host, Mary Rothwell, licensed therapist and certified integrative mental health practitioner.
0:13
Mary: I've created a space where we celebrate the intuition and power of women who want to break free from limiting narratives.
0:20
Mary: We'll explore all realms of wellness, what it means to take up space unapologetically, and how your essential nature is key to living life on your terms.
0:30
Mary: It's time to own your space, trust your nature, and flourish.
0:34
Mary: Let's dive in.
0:35
Mary: Hey Violets, welcome to the show.
0:42
Mary: So I had a pretty varied dating life.
0:45
Mary: I didn't get married for the first time until I was 37.
0:48
Mary: I was pretty self-sufficient, which seems like a great way to enter a relationship, right?
0:52
Mary: I supported myself, I knew how to navigate the world, I owned my house, I was successful professionally.
0:59
Mary: But ironically, knowing myself and being independent actually meant that I ignored many red flags.
1:05
Mary: I didn't know that until I was filing divorce papers.
1:10
Mary: See, I didn't need anyone.
1:12
Mary: So there were behaviors that I excused because I felt like I also didn't need a true partnership, which, of course, is glaringly, obviously bullshit.
1:20
Mary: I see that now.
1:21
Mary: Anyway, I won't go into all the reasons I settled for my first husband's limited investment in our marriage.
1:27
Mary: Those issues, as with many of our areas where we need to grow, go back to childhood.
1:32
Mary: Even after my marriage ended, I overcorrected in my dating decisions, but life continued to teach me what I needed to end up in an equal and strong marriage today.
1:42
Mary: I think finding a life partner for those who truly want that can be an exercise in radical acceptance because it's not like takeout.
1:50
Mary: We can't just look at a menu and order what we want.
1:53
Mary: It's not like an appointment for a haircut.
1:55
Mary: We can't choose the date we want to meet someone on the timeline that would work best for all of our other plans and commitments.
2:02
Mary: My guest today had some of her own struggles in her quest to find a partner.
2:06
Mary: So we're going to talk about how she recognized that, what she did to change it, including a little bit about mindset, and get some of her best insights into how to create the partnership you truly want.
2:18
Mary: And one of the questions we're going to answer along the way is why finding the right guy might be the worst way to go about love.
2:25
Mary: Haya Garcia is a licensed social worker and she is on a mission to change marriage dynamics through training women and men how to love themselves, re-empower their inner child, be honest with who's responsible for their happiness, educate them on healthy and unhealthy signs of behavior during the dating process, and ultimately feel secure and confident in making the decision on who to marry that will ensure healthy dynamics and a safe space for each to grow and fulfill their purpose.
2:56
Mary: Welcome to No Shrinking Violet Skya.
2:59
Chaya: Hi, Mary.
3:00
Mary: Thank you so much for having me here.
3:02
Mary: It's truly an honor.
3:04
Mary: And I want to tell everyone that is just listening with no video that she's standing in this beautiful space.
3:10
Mary: She has this lovely light behind her that is rainbow-like, and it's just a beautiful space.
3:16
Mary: So I love that.
3:18
Mary: Okay.
3:18
Mary: So I wondered if you could start by telling us a bit about your own history and what was your wake-up call to start on a different path towards your own love story.
3:28
Chaya: Yeah.
3:29
Chaya: Well, first of all, listeners, y'all are in the right place if you want to get to the relationship of your dreams, because it starts from you.
3:36
Chaya: Mary, what you said about how you were so independent and successful that kind of, of course, you married the wrong man because you didn't need anyone, which took away your vulnerability, which is the key necessity and ingredient for intimacy.
3:51
Chaya: So I also want to like acknowledge what you just shared with all of your listeners, and I will respond to your question.
3:57
Chaya: But it's like women think, oh, I just have to be beautiful.
4:00
Chaya: I just have to be successful.
4:02
Chaya: I just have to be and do and do and do.
4:05
Chaya: But then they miss that intimacy piece, that vulnerability, that true connection that comes from messiness, shame, screw-ups.
4:15
Chaya: And it's in that space where you feel if you can find someone who is very safe and you can rely on them never to withdraw their love when you screw up, but to be consistent, you can actually have a marriage that lasts.
4:29
Mary: Yeah.
4:30
Chaya: So in answer to your question, I was in fetal position, crying hysterically, totally numb when I had just spent all morning getting ready for my boyfriend at the time.
4:43
Chaya: I put on makeup, I made breakfast for him, I made coffee.
4:47
Chaya: I was like, let's read and learn together.
4:49
Chaya: Let's ins let me inspire you.
4:51
Chaya: Right.
4:52
Chaya: And then I set up everything.
4:54
Chaya: He comes in all like slumped over or like a good addict.
4:58
Chaya: And he's like, just so you know, breaking up with you.
5:02
Chaya: I'm gonna go upstate New York to do drugs.
5:04
Chaya: Wow.
5:05
Chaya: And I was like, what?
5:06
Chaya: And so he left.
5:08
Chaya: We had dated a long time.
5:10
Chaya: I always said, choose me or drugs, right?
5:12
Chaya: Which makes so much sense.
5:13
Chaya: Every woman and their mom at some point in their unhealthy life says, choose me or right?
5:20
Chaya: Choose me or the porn, choose me or the pot, choose me or the drugs, choose me over your work.
5:26
Chaya: Just choose me.
5:27
Chaya: Like you love me.
5:28
Chaya: Choose me.
5:30
Chaya: And we think we can do that if we love up on them, if we forgive them, if we make them more dinner, if we make more love to them, if we're sh quieter or louder.
5:39
Chaya: And the truth is, if we don't first choose ourselves, we'll never attract someone who will choose us.
5:45
Chaya: So that was me super successful.
5:48
Chaya: Two degrees, straight A's, owned a house, hot boyfriend, good body, the works.
5:53
Chaya: And yet I was in a fetal position crying because I didn't even understand I was a full-blown addict.
6:00
Chaya: But not of drugs and alcohol, but of other people's approval, of society's approval, of the straight A's or the money or the body or the success.
6:11
Chaya: And I needed that to be worthy.
6:13
Chaya: So of course I attracted someone who couldn't see me for my depth, or who could, but didn't have the capacity to hold it.
6:21
Chaya: And so when he was weak, he left me there too.
6:25
Mary: Yeah, wow.
6:26
Mary: That's a lot.
6:27
Mary: So that was your wake-up call, right?
6:30
Mary: It sounds like you were really striving for.
6:33
Mary: You were acknowledging, okay, there's a huge issue here, but I'm just gonna keep on doing what I think I'm supposed to do to be the thing that is more important than the other thing that is really eating up a lot of energy and is really unhealthy.
6:48
Chaya: Yeah, well, I was a liar.
6:50
Chaya: See, nobody talks about how we're all liars at some point in her life.
6:54
Chaya: I was a full-blown liar.
6:56
Chaya: And I never told a lie to anyone, Marie.
6:59
Chaya: I was like one of those honest, good people with a good heart and never cheated and like, and yet I lied to myself that this was okay when it wasn't, that he was gonna change when he wasn't, that I could change a grown adult's behavior when I couldn't.
7:13
Chaya: And so I was in a state of just dishonesty.
7:16
Chaya: And when he left me, I had this moment of like, how did I create the situation?
7:23
Chaya: How did I, how am I a part of this ridiculously strange scenario?
7:30
Chaya: Like, what about me created it?
7:32
Chaya: And that's when I became an addict, not an addict, that's when I became obsessed about addiction.
7:37
Chaya: I was like, what is addiction?
7:39
Chaya: Because I know he's doing the drugs.
7:40
Chaya: I've heard about that.
7:41
Chaya: I didn't know about codependency.
7:44
Mary: Yeah.
7:44
Chaya: I didn't know that was a thing.
7:45
Mary: I didn't know anything about it.
7:47
Mary: So, okay, so many things in there I want to pull out.
7:50
Mary: So one is I think you've mentioned the way that I think we are socialized as women to what we're supposed to be.
7:57
Mary: And I think a lot of that is we have been taught through a lot of messages that we're supposed to earn love, right?
8:05
Mary: We learn that really well.
8:06
Mary: Like, here's I'm supposed to look this certain way, I'm supposed to do this certain thing because I need to earn it.
8:12
Mary: What do you think about that?
8:14
Chaya: I think that it's a big part of parenting in the school systems.
8:18
Chaya: I think I'm a really, really big advocate of not sending children to schools because they literally train you since you're a wee little thing to sit down, shut up, raise your hand.
8:28
Chaya: You can't pee without permission.
8:30
Chaya: If you do the wrong thing or say the wrong thing or don't believe what we're trying to teach you, um, there's gonna be lashback, and you're literally trapped to a desk with an authority figure saying, you know what, the only way someone's ever gonna be proud of you is if you get an A on this test.
8:46
Chaya: And essentially that happens from like pretty young of an age.
8:49
Chaya: And so we're trained to just put our worth and our pride and our and our visions of love in something external.
9:00
Chaya: And so, yeah, women and men are trained that we need to earn love from our parents who withdraw it when we do the wrong thing, which is why I'm super careful with that with my kids.
9:10
Chaya: I'm like, you made a mistake.
9:11
Chaya: I love you anyway.
9:12
Chaya: No matter what you do, good or bad, you're always good inside, and mommy loves you no matter what.
9:17
Chaya: Doesn't mean I don't get pissed at them, but I say that all the time.
9:22
unknown: Yeah.
9:23
Chaya: So yeah, we're definitely trained to earn love and it distorts then who we attract, like what you were saying.
9:30
Chaya: Because we think that, well, if we are good looking or if we do have this, then of course he'll want me.
9:36
Chaya: But only somebody who is weak will want such a strong woman.
9:39
Chaya: Cause again, there's like this perfect dance of insecurity instead of intimacy.
9:45
Mary: Yeah, I think you raised some good points.
9:47
Mary: You know, I worked in public schools for 20 years, so I do believe in public education.
9:52
Mary: However, I also recognize that the longer we have this system, the more it becomes about assessments and learning the curriculum that's decided and seeing other schools where there's more of it used the word messy earlier.
10:10
Mary: I think there's more of we allow students to be messier, be who they are, because I say this all the time because I'm a nature girl.
10:17
Mary: We know who we are when we're young.
10:19
Mary: And as we get older, there may be things, and I'll say, especially as women, where don't do that because that's weird, or don't do that because it doesn't make you look pretty, or you know, don't ugly cry, or you know, all of those things.
10:32
Mary: And, you know, I think that chips away at it.
10:35
Mary: So the other thing that I wanted to point out in what you said was the term codependency.
10:40
Mary: And I think we have a really varied understanding of what that is.
10:46
Mary: And ironically, I think social media, the more information that's out there, the more confused we are.
10:51
Mary: So tell us how do you define codependency and why do you refer to that as an addiction?
10:58
Chaya: Well, it really is an addiction and it's a disease, just the same way as an addict to heroin or cocaine or anything that's more obvious.
11:06
Chaya: Because, you know, what an addict does is you, you know, they lose sleep over being high and then the withdrawal and then needing to get the drugs and go high and then and then again low, right?
11:16
Chaya: And so that's essentially their cycle of life.
11:19
Chaya: They need to control themselves through an outside substance.
11:23
Chaya: That's how they deal with their shame, depression, anger, traumas, whatever they're going through, that's the way they function.
11:30
Chaya: Okay.
11:30
Chaya: Anything outside of their feelings, a high, a low, and a repeat.
11:35
Chaya: And codependency is addiction.
11:37
Chaya: We lose sleep also.
11:39
Chaya: We also obsess, right?
11:41
Chaya: So the drug addict's like, gotta get my drug today.
11:43
Chaya: How do I get it?
11:44
Chaya: Who do I call?
11:44
Chaya: Where's my dealer?
11:45
Chaya: Oh, he's out of town.
11:46
Chaya: What's the other dealer?
11:47
Chaya: Right.
11:48
Chaya: And we do that too.
11:49
Chaya: Where is he?
11:51
Chaya: What's he doing?
11:52
Chaya: Who's he with?
11:53
Chaya: How can I reach him?
11:54
Chaya: How many times do I have to call him?
11:55
Chaya: How do I get him to stay with me?
11:56
Chaya: Maybe I have to get pregnant, maybe I have to get married, maybe I have to sleep with him more, maybe I have to lose weight.
12:00
Chaya: We're obsessing about something outside of ourselves to control our own shame, fears, insecurities, vulnerabilities.
12:08
Chaya: And then we go, hi.
12:10
Chaya: Oh my God, he texted me back.
12:11
Chaya: Oh my God, he called me.
12:12
Chaya: He said he loved me.
12:13
Chaya: He said it's gonna work out.
12:14
Chaya: He's gonna go to therapy, he's gonna go to AA.
12:16
Chaya: Oh, I think it's gonna be okay.
12:18
Chaya: Oh shit.
12:20
Chaya: He just drank, he just watched porn, he just left me.
12:22
Chaya: I don't know where he is.
12:23
Chaya: It's 2 a.m.
12:24
Chaya: He still didn't pay the bill, whatever every individual woman's story is.
12:28
Chaya: And you go down and you go up and you go down and you rinse and repeat, and it is literally an illness because it rips you away from yourself.
12:36
Chaya: It rips you away from love and it rips you away from from enjoying life.
12:42
Chaya: And so when you see an attic killing themselves, maybe it's a little physically more grotesque, but a codependency is just emotionally the same grotesque.
12:51
Chaya: You just can't see it as well because we're always chasing success while we suffer internally.
12:57
Mary: Well, and I think in imbued in that too, is the idea that if you love somebody, then you stay and you quote, help them.
13:07
Chaya: Yeah, it's the worst ever.
13:08
Mary: It's a horrible idea.
13:09
Mary: Yeah.
13:11
Mary: No, keep going.
13:12
Chaya: I didn't mean to interrupt you.
13:13
Chaya: I was like, You didn't.
13:14
Mary: I was sort of pausing for you to comment because I think that we have so many narratives.
13:19
Mary: And I think one of them for women is the word selfish.
13:22
Mary: I hear that from my clients all the time.
13:24
Mary: If I do this, because we tend to be, you know, um, socialized as caretakers, if I do this thing for myself, then I'm afraid people will think I'm selfish.
13:33
Mary: And I think that idea of love is so entangled with that word of selfishness and selfless, all of those types of ideas, selflessness, selfishness, that that's part of that narrative.
13:47
Mary: I think we're taught.
13:49
Chaya: Yeah.
13:49
Chaya: And I think that's why, you know, people like Louise Hay and me and certain people are trying, and Mel Robbins are trying to go back to the basics of like, you only have you, you need to love yourself and your life is your destiny, not trying to make it work.
14:03
Chaya: One of the things that I hate the most, because like I stopped watching it, but love is blind on Netflix.
14:08
Chaya: We're gonna fight for love.
14:10
Chaya: Will you fight for love?
14:11
Chaya: I'm gonna fight, even if we fight, even if we have none of the same values, even if you totally screw up, I'm gonna fight for love.
14:17
Chaya: Will you fight for love?
14:18
Chaya: And I'm like, oh my God, ew, like love, there's no fighting in it.
14:23
Chaya: Like Layla Hermosy and Alex Hermozzi, which are very big marketers for anyone who don't know, um, and they're married, or like, people need to stop normalizing fighting or arguments.
14:33
Chaya: Like, there's a difference between an argument in a marriage or a quarrel or something that you have to work out or a challenge, but fighting, where there's like intensity and negativity or name-calling or emotional withdrawal or threatening of leaving the relationship, all that fighting stuff is so um like taking your inner child and like shackling her to that person because you become addicted to the hope that one day they'll choose you.
15:00
Chaya: It's like the intermittent positive reinforcement that causes gamblers and addicts to just lose their whole life.
15:06
Chaya: They're just like, maybe it's just gonna work.
15:08
Chaya: And so we literally become physiologically addicted to these relationships because, like, maybe the next time it'll be okay.
15:16
Chaya: But it's never okay.
15:18
Mary: Yeah.
15:19
Mary: And that up and down you're talking about, you know, it's kind of like when we hear the ding of a text or all that is a dopamine hit.
15:26
Mary: And so when you talk about addiction, there is chemical stuff happening in our brain, especially in new love, that excitement.
15:35
Mary: And, you know, we're simplifying what a long-term love really looks like.
15:40
Mary: But those initial reactions to, you know, the the effort we made, or oh, we hear that's why so many people look at their phone when they're driving, because it nearly is an irresistible addiction to get that next dopamine hit because it feels so good to be in love.
15:58
Mary: And the that chaos often comes from someone's family, that if their their home life was chaotic, it's comfortable to be in that, but that doesn't mean it's not toxic.
16:09
Chaya: Yeah.
16:10
Chaya: And sometimes when we've had toxicity with our parents or with a trauma in life or with our environment, the toxicity feels familiar.
16:20
Chaya: And our brain is wired to stay in familiar.
16:23
Chaya: It's not wired to stay in healthy and happy in spiritual growth.
16:28
Chaya: It's wired to stay in what you know because the brain says, well, if you know this and it hasn't killed you yet, stay.
16:36
Chaya: That's it.
16:37
Chaya: It's so our brains are so um not very advanced.
16:41
Chaya: And but our soul is and our gut is and our intuition.
16:45
Chaya: So yeah, like it's very addictive and we very much feel um like it's the attention we crave.
16:53
Chaya: And the truth is, we like human beings are wired for attention.
16:58
Chaya: We genuinely need it.
17:00
Chaya: Like the monkey babies who were given food and water and shelter, but then they were deprived from attention and a snuggle.
17:06
Chaya: They died, like they didn't make it.
17:07
Chaya: So human beings have this real need that we aren't educated about.
17:12
Chaya: You need a hug, you need love, you need attention.
17:14
Chaya: And when you don't know how to give it to yourself because you were never educated that it's generated from yourself, then you have this huge life need and you're like, oh, someone, someone gave me attention on Instagram, someone gave me attention on Facebook, oh, he looked at me, oh, he wanted me.
17:29
Chaya: And it's really filling a need for survival.
17:32
Chaya: Yeah.
17:32
Chaya: But if we don't learn that it's generated from ourselves, then we're always kind of draining our energies, hoping something or someone will give us that fix we need.
17:43
Mary: Yeah.
17:43
Mary: And so one of the things that I really try to do on my show is I have so many people that are inspiring and you're so passionate in what you're talking about.
17:54
Mary: And I think a lot of times, and I can go back to my therapy office, people are like, but how do I do this?
17:59
Mary: How do I do this?
18:00
Mary: So let's talk a little bit about how do you know when it's time to walk away?
18:04
Mary: Okay.
18:06
Chaya: So first I always say, like, first of all, you know.
18:08
Chaya: First of all, you really just know.
18:09
Chaya: Because if you're even thinking about walking away, you probably should walk away.
18:13
Chaya: Nobody in a really healthy, stable, predictable marriage or relationship thinks frequently about walking away.
18:19
Chaya: So if you're thinking about it, you probably just are afraid.
18:22
Chaya: And your fear of the unknown is trapping you in the familiarity of the known.
18:27
Chaya: Um, but so first of all, if they so if he has active addiction, that's an easy out.
18:34
Chaya: If he has active mental health issues that aren't um being addressed, like he refuses to take medication.
18:41
Chaya: So let's talk about active addiction because I think it's one of the most common.
18:45
Chaya: Um, if he's drinking too much, a lot of women don't even know the signs of drinking.
18:49
Chaya: They're like, oh, he drinks a beer every day or two beers every day.
18:52
Chaya: What's a beer?
18:53
Chaya: But if he's constantly altering his state of mind and his reality and removing himself away from himself by just altering it, even a little bit, a lot of it, that already shows you there's something so severely wrong with his connection and intimacy with himself that he's okay giving himself disconnection and pain.
19:14
Chaya: And therefore he's going to do that with you.
19:17
Chaya: So you want to just see like, is this even something he's willing to go to therapy for or treatment for on his own?
19:26
Chaya: Because as women, we think we're powerful, godly humans, and we are, just not necessarily with the wrong partners.
19:33
Chaya: Um, and we think we can tell them what to do.
19:36
Chaya: But if so, if he doesn't want on his own to heal and change, there's really not much you can do.
19:42
Chaya: So see what his behaviors are.
19:45
Chaya: And if you don't want to become that, if you don't want your children to become that, if you don't want your son to mimic and just literally merge into his behavior, you should probably leave because I genuinely believe in true love.
19:58
Chaya: I have it in my husband in my marriage after my whole adult life of never having it and these unhealthy relationships we're talking about.
20:06
Chaya: And so, yeah, you can totally stay in the highs and lows and then just focus on the highs, which most people do.
20:12
Chaya: We have a good marriage.
20:13
Chaya: He cheats on me once a week, but besides for that, it's a really good marriage.
20:17
Chaya: I'm not even joking.
20:18
Chaya: I've heard this many a time.
20:20
Chaya: And so I know now after working on myself what a beautiful true love looks like.
20:27
Chaya: It's so safe and I could cry.
20:30
Chaya: It's so safe and calming and non-threatening, and like you can breathe easy every day that I want every woman to do the healing work where they learn how to love themselves so much that they release the toxicity to eventually attract someone who's gonna have the same capacity and love them as well.
20:48
Chaya: So, in general, yes, you should probably, probably leave most of the time.
20:55
Mary: Yeah.
20:55
Mary: And I think the other side of the coin, what you're talking about, yeah, making that transition to something that is healthy, that can feel really uncomfortable because you you alluded to this earlier.
21:10
Mary: We're waiting, like we're waiting for the disappointment.
21:13
Mary: We're waiting.
21:13
Mary: So that trust has been so eroded.
21:16
Mary: So we talked about when what are the signs to leave.
21:20
Mary: So, what are the signs to stay?
21:22
Mary: Like, how do you start to kind of allow yourself into that more calm space, the trusting and grounded space with someone?
21:33
Chaya: You have to see it from him without you.
21:36
Chaya: You just have to step back and be feminine.
21:39
Chaya: And if you step back and not put your two cents in, your input, your dreams, your ideas, your hopes, your wants for the relationship and how hard you worked and how long you've been together, and don't let us go now.
21:52
Chaya: And we love each other so much, and we've done this for 10 years, all the things that women put into the reason.
21:58
Chaya: If you can step back and just observe in a feminine loving space, I call it the investigator versus the painter.
22:04
Chaya: An investigator is just like, let me see this situation.
22:07
Chaya: And a painter's like, let me paint this ugly picture pink, and they take out all their paint and like color over the picture.
22:11
Chaya: Yeah.
22:12
Chaya: Um, and you see that his character on his own is something that he values growth in.
22:20
Chaya: So he is saying, I want to grow, but not saying it.
22:25
Chaya: He's doing it, his words align with his actions.
22:29
Chaya: He's not like, I want to quit smoking pot or pointer alcohol.
22:32
Chaya: He's actually not buying it anymore.
22:35
Chaya: So if you take yourself out and you're not an addict of hope and love, like we all could be, and you observe his behavior and you see on his own, as a grown independent man with his own autonomy, with his own decision making, he is making positive decisions, even if they're tiny, even if they're small, to better himself, to better his growth, to get help, to get a therapist to stop this, it's worth a consideration of working with that individual and then developing tools and skills and communications and how to better relate.
23:12
Chaya: But if your kids hate him, get out.
23:17
Mary: Yeah.
23:18
Mary: Yeah.
23:19
Mary: So if you're starting over, and this is really what I I kind of want to um focus on a little bit.
23:26
Mary: So you're um you're you're have the realization, I can't keep, I can't keep this pattern.
23:31
Mary: I've had actually women say to me who have come out of really unhealthy relationships, I am so afraid that I'm gonna find the same thing.
23:41
Mary: And it's hard to to help them recognize that they can be empowered to make decisions and trust themselves because you said it earlier.
23:50
Mary: We already know.
23:51
Mary: We already know when something isn't right, but we're gonna take out that paintbrush and we're gonna try to pretty it up because that's what we're socialized to do.
24:01
Mary: So, how would you help someone that's that let's say when they were they get to a point where you were where you're like, holy crap, like that's not working.
24:11
Mary: I need to step onto a different path.
24:13
Mary: How do you help them trust themselves?
24:15
Chaya: So for for I would I would say three things.
24:18
Chaya: Great question.
24:19
Chaya: One is you need to know very realistically, you will attract the same person if you don't change.
24:25
Chaya: I had to hear for years.
24:28
Chaya: Nothing changes if nothing changes with this, which is a 12-step program slogan.
24:32
Chaya: I didn't get it for years because I went to the room.
24:36
Chaya: So first they have to know that fear is valid.
24:39
Chaya: If you, if nothing changes, nothing changes.
24:42
Chaya: If you don't learn how to love yourself so much, you hear your own feelings and your own intuition that you then want to protect yourself and walk away from people or things that hurt you.
24:55
Chaya: It will repeat.
24:56
Chaya: So, therefore, because it's a real valid fear, you need real valid help.
25:02
Chaya: You're not meant to do this on your own.
25:04
Chaya: It's not for you to do it on your own.
25:06
Chaya: Get a coach like me, like you, right?
25:09
Chaya: We study this.
25:10
Chaya: I work with women like this, I know it inside and out.
25:13
Chaya: Go to the programs, which are totally free.
25:15
Chaya: You're like, I don't have money to pay for a therapist, a coach.
25:17
Chaya: Fine.
25:18
Chaya: Go to the programs.
25:19
Chaya: They're 100% free and anonymous and learn and hear yourself in other people so that you don't have to be like, oh, I'm just gonna have to trust me, but I don't know me.
25:30
Chaya: Get to know yourself in relation to hearing your story repeated in so many women who are just like you.
25:37
Chaya: So when it comes into your life, you can be like, oh, I feel it, I've seen it, I've heard it more.
25:42
Chaya: You shift internally through changing your environment and your stories and your vulnerability.
25:47
Chaya: So one, know it's really real.
25:49
Chaya: Two, get real help.
25:51
Chaya: If you have money, hire a coach.
25:53
Chaya: If you have money plus, go to the programs.
25:56
Chaya: And the other thing is just know that you only attract, you don't even have to worry because if you do that and then get a mentor from the program, get a sponsor.
26:06
Chaya: No, if you do that, the only reason you attracted someone is because we don't attract what we want.
26:11
Chaya: We attract who we are.
26:12
Chaya: And I have to say that again because it's really important.
26:14
Chaya: For anyone who's listening and you're worried, like I dated this, I he was such an a-hole, like he can't believe what did I do to attract such a loser of this?
26:22
Chaya: And I didn't see it in the beginning.
26:23
Chaya: First of all, you did and you lied to yourself.
26:25
Chaya: So don't worry.
26:26
Chaya: And then, second of all, don't worry because we don't attract what we want.
26:30
Chaya: Nobody wants to be cheated on or beaten or abused or neglected.
26:34
Chaya: And that's what mostly happens in relationships.
26:37
Chaya: But if you don't beat yourself up, if you don't abandon yourself, if you don't lie to yourself, if you start hearing and honoring your voice, which means moving away from people and jobs and things that hurt you, then you don't even have to worry because again, you're just gonna attract what you are, not what you want.
26:56
Chaya: So if you start using your voice and saying, I'm not comfortable with that, oh, you don't want to get married anytime soon, you just want a casual relationship.
27:03
Chaya: I don't care how hot and rich you are, I'm gonna walk away because I'm not down to be used with no commitment of time or intention.
27:10
Chaya: Who the heck wants to date for a long period of time without the intention of commitment?
27:14
Chaya: That's called I am planning for abandonment with delusion of hope that they will love me enough to change, which doesn't happen.
27:22
Chaya: And if it does, it's through toxicity and and trauma bonds.
27:27
Chaya: So don't worry, get real help.
27:30
Chaya: It is a real issue, but there's so many resources.
27:34
Chaya: And when you get so cozy-woezy with yourself and you love up on yourself and you feed yourself well and you don't hurt yourself anymore with your bad thoughts and criticisms, you won't even be attracted to the same man who did it before.
27:47
Mary: That's great.
27:47
Mary: I mean, I think you just brought up so many important things within that.
27:51
Mary: And I think we need again to learn to trust ourselves because that's why I have the title of my podcast is No Shrinking Violets, because we do start to shrink.
28:00
Mary: And each time we experience something, like you're talking about someone who doesn't choose us, or we try so hard, and then it's it's really not about us, even though we think it's about us.
28:13
Mary: If he, if I was just this next thing, then I would be enough for him, and you're enough for yourself, you're enough for the right person.
28:20
Mary: And I think that's that is so important to know that if you feel that you are shrinking and take um inventory of your body, take inventory of your thoughts.
28:30
Mary: And if all of those things are pulling inward, there's a lot of tension, there's a lot of somatic symptoms of stomach aches and headaches, and you know, all of those things, those are all clues.
28:41
Mary: If you need anything to back up your instinct, which we shouldn't, but sometimes we do.
28:46
Mary: And the other thing that I sort of mentioned, you know, it'll be you'll attract the right thing.
28:52
Mary: What do you think about this?
28:53
Mary: The other thing that we're told is there's one right person for everyone.
28:57
Mary: What do you think about that?
28:58
Chaya: I'm a huge believer in that.
28:59
Chaya: I'm very not into people who say it's just a choice.
29:04
Chaya: I personally get like a visceral reaction and I get all angry inside.
29:08
Chaya: I'm like, no.
29:09
Chaya: Um, I very much believe in God.
29:12
Chaya: I very much believe in souls.
29:14
Chaya: So, first of all, if you don't believe in God or a soul or soulmates or um purpose, I think it's so easy to say there's no one.
29:23
Chaya: You just find someone you work with and that you choose each other every day, which I literally effing loathe because we have a soulmate.
29:32
Chaya: And according to the Old Testament and the oral Torah part of the Old Testament, we have seven potential soulmates, seven potential soulmates.
29:40
Chaya: And basically, how much we grow and how much we become enlightened or connected to ourselves and uh work on ourselves, we basically just match one of the seven soulmates.
29:50
Chaya: And there is something called the Zivokagon, which is your highest potential of love.
29:55
Chaya: And I was like already single, being like, Where's my husband?
29:58
Chaya: Where's my husband?
29:59
Chaya: I realize.
29:59
Chaya: I'm not want to be alone anymore.
30:01
Chaya: And then I learned about this concept as Diva got going, like your highest potential of love.
30:06
Chaya: And I was like, that's it.
30:07
Chaya: And Louise Hay talks about it a lot, also.
30:09
Chaya: She's like, I was like, that's it.
30:11
Chaya: We're not meant to be married like Stom, like in general.
30:15
Chaya: We're not meant to just have love.
30:17
Chaya: We're meant to work on ourselves so profoundly where we're comfortable in ourselves enough to be intimate, like true intimacy without walls and withdrawal to attract our soul, our highest potential of a soulmate to fulfill our purpose.
30:31
Chaya: My husband, who is extraordinary and I love him so very much, is so perfectly unified with me for my purpose in this world.
30:40
Chaya: We do not quarrel or fight or disagree on any value system in my whole family, not with our religion, not with the practices, not with the type of religion, not with which set, nothing.
30:52
Chaya: We are so in sync that my life is filled with joy and gratitude and like a fish who swims, like seamless productivity.
31:03
Chaya: And I'm not saying we don't fight.
31:04
Chaya: I'm not saying we haven't had bad fights.
31:06
Chaya: I'm not saying we don't work through stuff.
31:07
Chaya: I'm not saying I'm not human.
31:09
Chaya: Yes, human challenges, uh, crazy shit.
31:13
Chaya: But like also never a fear that he would leave me or hurt me through all of my hard moments.
31:20
Chaya: And we had hard moments.
31:21
Chaya: I was postpartum and insane, you know, real hard moments.
31:25
Chaya: But never was I afraid of him with like leaving me ever or resorting to um an unhealthy behavior.
31:34
Chaya: Like with my exes, I'm like, oh, if we fight, he's gonna go watch porn.
31:38
Chaya: If we fight, he's gonna go smoke up.
31:40
Chaya: If we fight, he's gonna go do drugs and it's gonna be my fault.
31:43
Chaya: And I don't want him to do the drugs, so I'm not gonna get my husband.
31:46
Chaya: I can go through any emotion as intense as I can by nature, and he will, and he never withdraws his love.
31:53
Chaya: And his purpose of his life and what he does in this world is so unified and in sync with me and my vision that I very much believe in God and in soulmates and in the concept that was created, not from me, but that I was taught through infinite wisdom that we genuinely have one best soulmate for our purpose in this world.
32:12
Mary: Yeah.
32:12
Mary: Well, and I would say for anyone, like you mentioned, someone may not believe in certain spirituality or certain religions, but I think the what shoots really through the heart of exactly what you said is by being the best self you can be.
32:27
Mary: And that even goes to Maslow's hierarchy of needs, self-actualization is what, you know, as a psychologist, he's like, that's what we strive for.
32:35
Mary: That's how you live the fullest life.
32:37
Mary: And so that really does cut through all of this because regardless of what you believe, if you connect with your highest purpose, your potential, and then you expect to attract something that's going to mirror that because we do attract, we do attract something that mirrors.
32:56
Mary: Like I started this whole thing with that, you know, I attracted a partner that didn't need to be in the marriage because I was convinced I didn't need a partner.
33:05
Mary: And so I got exactly what I signed up for.
33:09
Mary: And that's when it's like, okay, I need to do something different.
33:12
Mary: So I think, you know, you're saying that beautifully, like to be this highest level of yourself that you can be, that's how you bring a partner in that is what you really want to have in your life.
33:25
Mary: Yeah.
33:26
Chaya: And I think that just from being in program, no matter what religion, race, heritage you come from, the beauty of the 12-step program rooms is that it's a spiritual growth process that just believes in the God of our understanding that there really is a power greater than us.
33:47
Chaya: And I think that really is an essential component to every man and woman of every religion and race.
33:54
Chaya: Because if we believe we're the ones in control, man, will we feel like so pessimistic at times and so hard on ourselves that we can't make things work all the time that we want.
34:03
Chaya: But from Louise Hay to Hermoses, I mean, these are just really big people to Tony's that all of the program, the one thing they have in common is a belief in God, in grace, and in something bigger than us that we can rely upon for good and for healing.
34:22
Chaya: And all of the greatest people I know, and all of the greatest people that I know in marriages, again, Tony Hermozzi, all the very well-known people, Bob Proctor and myself, they made a list and a long ass list.
34:34
Chaya: So I want your listeners to hear that self-actualization literally means what do I want?
34:40
Chaya: What do I want?
34:40
Chaya: Not what does my mom want from me, not what was my dad, what is my brother, my boyfriend, what do I want from me?
34:46
Chaya: Self-actualization is knowing your list because it's knowing your purpose.
34:50
Chaya: What do I want to create in my life?
34:52
Chaya: When I'm on my deathbed, what do I have?
34:53
Chaya: What do I want to have done?
34:54
Chaya: Where do I want to have been?
34:56
Chaya: And when you have your value systems and your belief and your God and your spirituality, and you become so clear on what that is for you and that means to you because you've sat with yourself and you wrote it down.
35:07
Chaya: What do I believe in God?
35:08
Chaya: What's my faith?
35:09
Chaya: What do I want to create in my life?
35:11
Chaya: How do I want to practice my faith?
35:13
Chaya: How do I wanna be a good person?
35:15
Chaya: And you write it down, you have a list of who you need, who you want, not who you need, who you want.
35:22
Chaya: And that is that actualization that we're speaking of.
35:26
Mary: Yeah.
35:26
Mary: Okay, so there's a question we're gonna answer closer to the end.
35:31
Mary: And you kind of just did, but we're gonna have you sum it up in a minute.
35:34
Mary: What is why is finding the right guy the worst way to go about this?
35:37
Mary: But before we get there, tell us where to find you and what you can do to help women and men, right?
35:45
Chaya: So if you're listening and you are ready for change in your life and you don't want to do it alone, then you can reach me at Instagram at Epic Love Expert.
35:55
Chaya: So Epic E P-I-C Love L-O-V-Expert E X-P-R-T.
36:00
Chaya: So at Epic LoveExpert, and you can send me a DM and you say, I heard you on your podcast, and I want help.
36:09
Chaya: The first thing that I want the listeners to hear is that you we all need help.
36:13
Chaya: I think from the moment we're alive to the moment we pass, we need guidance and mentors and the right ones.
36:19
Chaya: And there's so much bad advice outside, like you said.
36:22
Chaya: So first just want to choose yourself.
36:25
Chaya: Second thing, after you want to choose yourself, no, you're not meant to do it alone in your own head with your own struggles, being strong and self-dependent and not and not weak and messy.
36:36
Chaya: And then the third thing is if you want help with someone who can genuinely help you attract the right relationships in business and in love, then send me that DM at Epic Love Expert.
36:46
Chaya: But you have to know it's an investment.
36:48
Chaya: I won't work for you if you're not ready to pay.
36:50
Chaya: I won't work for you if you want to blame your ex.
36:53
Chaya: I will work for you if you want you.
36:55
Chaya: If you don't even know how to get to you, but you know you want you, then send me that DM because you deserve an extraordinary life and I know how to get you there.
37:04
Mary: Oh, I'm very inspired.
37:06
Mary: That's great.
37:07
Mary: That is great.
37:08
Mary: And I love that you're saying, you know, someone needs to be clear on where they are and what their motivation is, because a lot of that excuse making and blaming, that's not going to get them there.
37:18
Mary: So I love that.
37:19
Mary: And of course, I'm gonna link it in the show notes.
37:21
Mary: Um, and also I would ask anybody who has been loving this episode to please share it with someone or take a second and scroll down and give a rating.
37:31
Mary: And if you have time, give a comment.
37:33
Mary: Okay, now to end, let's answer the question, which I think kind of we already did, but let's sum up why is trying to find the right guy the worst way to go about this dating thing?
37:45
Chaya: Because I think the key word in that sentence that's wrong is find.
37:50
Chaya: If you are a woman who's like, I need love, I just don't want to be single anymore, I need the right guy.
37:55
Chaya: Where is he?
37:56
Chaya: All my other friends are married and having babies.
37:58
Chaya: What about me?
37:59
Chaya: You're already in a state of disconnection from yourself and disconnection from God.
38:03
Chaya: Like God forgot about me.
38:05
Chaya: What's wrong with me?
38:06
Chaya: Why don't I have what I need?
38:08
Chaya: You're already in a state of void, of weakness, of something wrong with you, of masculinity in the sense that you're going out of yourself and you're trying to find is he gonna love me?
38:19
Chaya: Is he gonna love me?
38:20
Chaya: Is he gonna think I'm hot enough?
38:22
Chaya: Is he gonna want me?
38:23
Chaya: And you're already in a state of void, weakness, and masculine energy, which is going outside of yourself to conquer, find, and bring.
38:31
Chaya: And so, a real healthy, you know, for a woman, I guess for the women listening, men, you can switch it.
38:37
Chaya: Um, just be feminine of like, I already love me.
38:41
Chaya: I've already got me.
38:43
Chaya: If he doesn't want me or is ready to commit to me, that's okay.
38:47
Chaya: I've got me and I'm ready to commit to myself every day.
38:50
Chaya: And so the key word really is not to have the word find, but to attract.
38:56
Chaya: I attract the right guy who's gonna see me, who's gonna see my true authenticity because I'm living a joyful life aligned with my purpose and who's going to want me and pursue me.
39:10
Chaya: And when you want to just attract the right relationships, you're already in a sense of being more grounded and connected with yourself and God that you're not going to allow abuse and allow someone to toy with you because you've increased your worth.
39:26
Mary: Yeah.
39:26
Mary: That's great advice.
39:28
Mary: I am so big on the words that we use.
39:30
Mary: And so I think making that one switch from find to attract is so powerful and we underestimate that little mind shift.
39:39
Mary: But I think if people can think in those terms that they're not out there always like looking, is he wearing a ring?
39:45
Mary: We sort of, when we're looking for that love, we're always searching.
39:49
Mary: And I think if you can just lean back and think about I'm gonna attract it when I have reached that point for me, then that is so powerful.
40:01
Chaya: Yeah.
40:01
Chaya: And it's not only about needing love from one man who will be your true soulmate, it's also how do I live every day in love?
40:08
Chaya: Even though I'm in an extraordinarily happy, healthy marriage, I still have to love up on myself daily.
40:15
Chaya: I still have to nurture myself.
40:17
Chaya: I still write myself love notes every day.
40:20
Chaya: I still buy myself flowers.
40:22
Chaya: I need me because if I lose me, how can how much can I show up for him and my children and my company and my clients?
40:30
Chaya: So again, it's not just like I need to attract the right guy, and it's like this moment of time.
40:34
Chaya: You're not in it for the milestone that minute you get married.
40:38
Chaya: You're in it to learn how to love.
40:40
Chaya: And that's a lifelong process that starts with you loving up on yourself, giving yourself grace and forgiveness and kindness every day.
40:48
Mary: What a beautiful message.
40:49
Mary: Thank you so much for being here, Kai.
40:50
Mary: I really appreciate it.
40:52
Mary: Thank you, Mary.
40:53
Mary: It was such an honor.
40:54
Mary: And thank you, everyone, for listening.
40:56
Mary: And until next time, you know what I'm gonna say.
40:58
Mary: Go out into the world and be the amazing, resilient, vibrant violet that you are.