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What I've Learnt - Annabelle Hickson · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: While nearly a third of Australians, that's over 7 million, now live outside the cities.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: The latest quarterly data shows that more people are moving out to regions than back into cities.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Capital to regional migration is tracking at 11.7% above the pre-pandemic average.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: And Sydney accounted for a whopping 80% of all people moving from capitals to regions.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Millennials are the largest group making the move.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: So what is life actually like outside of the cities?
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, journalist Annabelle Hickson is the embodiment of the Australian tree changer.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Annabelle didn't plan to live in regional Australia, but she fell in love with a handsome farmer from Western New South Wales and thought she'd give it a shot.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: She knew there'd be some sacrifices, her journalism career at the Australian, the beach and takeaway food that is still hot by the time you get home, but she had no idea how many opportunities there would be for her in this new life, too.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: So while her husband Ed planted pecan trees, Annabelle looked after their three young children and began to learn what it was to be part of a community, all in it together.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: She saw smart, clever, and resilient people everywhere who talked about opportunities instead of limitations.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: This was in stark contrast to the simple country people stereotypes she'd bought into the city.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: So Annabelle wanted to read stories from Regional Australia that weren't about disadvantaged, stories that reflected her sense of luck living out of the city, and she wanted a publication that acted as a bridge between the city and country divide.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: So she made Galar, the magazine.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: For the first time, Annabel has collected the most loved and enduring stories from all issues of her award-winning magazine in book form, Galar, Stories of Life Outside the City.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's a really great story that you've embarked on, and I love this book.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously, I love the country, and we all love a rural experience, and I think we've all built it where we can into our lives.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Many, some of whom are coming back to the city, but many of whom found the piece of rural life very appealing.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny, you know, like even just sort of the way that question's phrased.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: I want to launch straight into yes, you know, COVID supercharged everyone moving to the regions, and we all discovered what was so amazing about it.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: But actually, I just want to step back a little bit because I think there was all this amazing stuff going on in the regions well before COVID came.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: I actually just think it's because Australia, despite our very strong mythology and love of the bush, we're actually one of the most urbanized countries in the world, you know.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a couple of generations ago, we all, you know, there was much stronger link between the country and the city.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you'd have a family member who was an uncle, you know, with a farm, or, you know, as a farm kid, a cousin in the city.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: So that link has actually got less and less.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I was certainly one of these city people that didn't have a link with the country.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't, I didn't have family out there, I didn't really know much, I'd sort of been on a few school camps, you know, that was that was about so I think I just want to stress that well before COVID, there was there were people living lives of great dignity, of innovation, excitement, interest out in the country.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: And perhaps it was the city that sort of lost touch with what was going on out there.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: I love that lens.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think, I mean, COVID was um a very interesting time because what is a city when you don't have access to all the like lovely, swirling cultural vortex that that wraps around it, where you can't go to restaurants, you can't go to the movies or the theater, you can't hang out with your friends in a beautiful public park.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is a city?
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it sort of came back down to is a city where you live in a small apartment with two small children and you're both working full-time, you know, it through that lens, all of um, you know, suddenly having space and freedom and you know, all nature.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, suddenly it brought us back to that sort of, I know exactly what you're saying.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: It brought us back to that connection with the simple things which people were craving.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I think that's a very good point you raise.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Once you remove those cultural hubs, then you turn towards nature, which is where we started.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like in a way, you go back to is, you know, the it's almost like an origin story of sorts, you know.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it was definitely, I think, a reshuffling of priorities for lots of people.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, it's interesting now, you know, now that the it's the world's open back up and you know, tourism, Airbnb, you couldn't get an Airbnb in regional Australia.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was packed out during COVID.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm definitely hearing from friends that uh there are not nearly as many bookings.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I think while we kind of want to believe this fairy tale that, oh, we all remembered how amazing the country was.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, now I think those of us who can afford to travel, lots of people are going overseas, you know.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's so true.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: So um I think we it was a very interesting time for Australia where we kind of so I I think it COVID was a very interesting time in sort of allowing us like collectively to like reshuffle our priorities, you know, about what was important and and space, um, freedom and that sort of stuff.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: That became very important.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: But how much of that stays now that we can re-engage with the urban world, who knows?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting because the latest quarterly data shows that more people are moving to the regions than back into the cities.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Is that still up to date and correct?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is actually.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what's so interesting about those figures are that they were trending upwards, that net flow of people into the regions that happened before COVID even came about.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I and actually to me, it looks like those figures are largely driven by housing affordability.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was about to say that.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, housing.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: And also, do you think an older um, an aging community also is a reflection of that, surely, that people are getting older and saying, you know, it's the lifestyle of moving to the regions, it's more affordable, it's quieter, it's there's an element of that too, yeah.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, especially if they, you know, don't have to go to the office every day.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're at a stage in their life where they retire, of course.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: But what's also exciting is this sort of subgroup of people who are coming out, younger people, millennials, and they can come out for housing affordability, but also because they have flexibility with how they work, you know.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's interesting to transform.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like my um it is.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, my sister and brother-in-law, they've actually moved here to where I live on a pecan farm, which is really nowhere near anything.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're an hour away from a tiny town.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's you know, so we're quite isolated.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: And he is a professional, he's a white-collar professional, and he had just works full-time, you know, via Zoom.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just incredible.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's incredible.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that's interesting because uh you make me think of a few things because um I can relate to that because most of the people that I'm working with and who I know are working at least two or three days from home in some form because they can.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: As you say, if they're professional, they can do that.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: So therefore, the flexibility is a factor.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: But then you've got the other collateral notion of sociability, you know, socialization and ensuring that you're in the office and all of those aspects.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously, there's there's the pros and cons that people weigh up, but clearly a lot of people are making the decision to stay on a rural journey.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm looking here actually, some of these figures.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Sydney accounted for a whopping 80% of all people moving from capitals to regions, up from 61% in the previous 12 months.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's enormous.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that's housing affordability?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think so.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's really driven by housing affordability.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think if um houses in the country were more expensive than houses in city, we would not be seeing those sorts of figures, you know.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's interesting.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was looking with someone actually.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny you say that because we're doing some research for someone.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: And um I was looking, you know, they could get 21,000, they could get 21 uh square feet.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry to be talking feet, it's old fashioned, in you know, an hour out of Melbourne, massive land for a quarter of the price of what they can get in the city.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: And they were just shocked at the I mean, the difference in terms, and also there's a big drop, also, I must say, I was doing some research in, for example, Byron and a lot of those places.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's dropped something like 20 to 30 percent, the agents were saying, and the same on the Mornington Peninsula, for example, just to use sort of rural local examples.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: So that's interesting too, because sorry, you mean dropped as in like post-COVID real estate?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that is interesting.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so I it's that's making it more affordable, but also it's interesting.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder if it reflects the transition as some people are moving back into the city.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it'd be interesting.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, absolutely, people are moving back.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, those numbers, they're net numbers.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: So there's there's certainly some people moving back, just that more happen to be staying.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Quite incredible.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, Annabelle, you're a very good example of a shall we call you a tree changer or a sea changer.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it sounds like you're quite um inland from what you've described.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Byron Bay, like you were just talking about, picture that, and we're about four and a half or five hours inland.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's really so you're New South Wales.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me how your story unfolded because it's quite interesting and how you embarked and stayed on the rural journey, which is interesting.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the rural journey was never part of my plans.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Not that it was never, you know, I wasn't actively against it.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: It just never featured in, you know, I was I I got a cadetship as a journalist at a newspaper in the city.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: My ambition.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Urban.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and I wanted, you know, that I was very excited about that career path.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, perhaps I thought, oh, maybe I'll go and do some time in a a bureau, you know, somewhere else.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: But it was a very urban, ambitious career path.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um that similar.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like you and I were so similar.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: I just realized that's exactly where I started.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very interesting to hear how urban you're when I see where you are.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'd actually moved from Sydney to Brisbane to work in the Brisbane Bureau of the Australian, which was just such a wonderful time.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: I got to work with sort of a group of really experienced, generous journos.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it was it was so great.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I remember saying to them, oh look, I've met this guy.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't, I don't know.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if he likes me.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: He's, you know, I just think he's so handsome.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: And he was coming to pick me up in his light aeroplane to take me down to the Northern Rivers on a date.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: And the guys in the office were like, he likes you.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: They all called him Beatles, and you know, a few months later I quit my job and moved out west.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we initially Yeah, I mean, it's it's quite a common story, you know, like falling in love with a farmer or falling in love with someone who runs a business in town, and then that gives you the impetus to total eat your life and and move out.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what, I am glad I did because I I never I chosen to um, you know, if it was up to me, only because I didn't have connections, I didn't have job reasons, I didn't have any of that.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: But it has, I just feel so lucky to be living what is a very different kind of life now.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, yes, and it's very romantic, isn't it?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that whole image anyway.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: But but actually there is a romanticism about choosing the tree changer lifestyle.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yours is particularly romantic with you know, with the context in which you move, but it's also quite real and it's quite it can be quite challenging, as we know.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: That I mean, there's lots of farmers who are finding it really difficult, and it can be quite a gritty and somewhat challenging choice.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, how what are you observing in that context as we're reading about not just in Australia but globally, the challenge of rural living?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's so interesting.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like to me, it it you've got two main stereotypes about a country life.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: And one is this romanticized, oh, the lovely simple life where you're in touch with nature and you bake scones and you have, you know, and then the other one is the stereotype right at the other end of the spectrum where it there's always drought, there's always floods, there's always fires, you know, doom and gloom.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, unsurprisingly, the reality is really somewhere in the middle.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there is it it infuriates me so much when people refer to, oh yeah, he's just a simple country guy, or oh, there's nothing to do out there, or you know, it is actually a really condescending, patronizing, yeah.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: A really lovely place, you know, and even if it comes from just wanting to believe in this sort of romantic, slow life, that is not that, you know, we're all human beings, we all have businesses, we all, we're all busy, you know.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that's not true.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: But equally, it's also not true that life is always hard and that life out here is about disadvantage, lack of access to things, because really my experience is uh like I said before, I feel really lucky to live this life.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: I've got three kids.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: If any of them said that they wanted to, you know, spend their life in regional or country Australia, I would be excited for them.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I guess I felt really passionate about trying to strike a balance between both of those stereotypes or just flesh them out a little bit more.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: That there's no such thing as just people sitting on verandas eating scones, waiting for someone interesting to show up.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: And there's no such thing as it all being ridiculously hard and doom and gloom.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: Makes a lot of sense.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: And actually on that note, so you launched the Gala magazine um really to give a voice to modern Bush Australia, which I think is wonderful.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what this book is, a compilation of that.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me, um, obviously, you're a storyteller like me, and this was the perfect um, I suppose, platform for you to shine the light on what it really is like.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what you've done with this.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, does that give you, does that give readers a good cross-section, in your opinion, of what you're just outlining, which is it's a bit of both.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: They're just like real life, like in the in same as the city.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: You get your good, your bad, your ugly, whatever, you know.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it's funny, I a reader, one reader described Galar as um a mix between, you know, if the New York Times and Country Style had a baby, it would be Galar.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that made me so happy.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much that country, I mean, I used to read Country Style growing up, you know, as a girl in suburban Sydney.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: I loved it.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: I loved the dream and I love that.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's a really beautiful platform to have.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I also love the idea of bringing in more of a kind of journalistic sensibility to life beyond the city.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so I guess that's what I hope Galah can do.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's why I started it.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: I was sick of just seeing things on the news.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we it the first issue of Galar came out in December 2020.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: So just before COVID lockdowns and everything happened.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: And we'd just been through three years of terrible drought.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: Then there were floods, then there were bushfires, and then there were like there was a mouse plague.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I can't even.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think the mouse plague was the worst of it all.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so I I'd never quite experienced like mice eating your hair as you sleep.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my! No, no, I'm not talking about it.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, everywhere for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: It was, you know, it was awful.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: It was an awful time, it was a financially stressful time.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the news reflected all that, which at you know, as it should.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: But even during that pit, I still felt very lucky to live out here.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: Had someone.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was gonna say, I'm sorry, that that should probably stretches my comfort zone.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I do, I mean, to your point, I mean, I suppose there are it comes, myths often come from some sort of reality, often.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: So obviously, as we just mentioned, you get, you know, mythology often comes from sometimes some reality, and the the news cycle will report the floods, the fires, the mouse plagues, which are all very real, as you've outlined.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I think what's what your lens is doing and what you're framing is about community, nuance, the humanity, the the shared, um, the the shared journey that you have and the intimacy you have being in a tight community.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I think, yeah, it's a bit of yin and yang and like anywhere where you live.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's what you've done is you've you you've captured that essence and and given it a journalistic context so that what the hear we're hearing the story is not just through the drama, you know, and through the news cycle.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a credit to you.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: I really, I really believe that you know, we hear a lot about how polarized the world is right now.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, even in Australia, when we had the referendum vote about the voice, the country voted very differently to the cities.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: They did.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you know, there's a lot, there's a there was a lot of talk about polarized polarization there.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: I really believe that there's always going to be people on the extremes, either end.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: But certainly my experience of people in country Australia, there there's a lot of moderate voices that skewed slightly to one side.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I I kind of believe that we're all a bit closer than we might think.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's really important to try and have civil conversations and like sort of help protect that center, even if it's, you know, one side slightly to the left and one side slightly to the right.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think that for me is a huge motivating factor.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to fan the flames of polarization at either end because I don't know, perhaps this is naive, but I do think we're closer than we might think.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's interesting because often there's a perspective that there's a parochialism in rural landscapes that people have a much more conservative view.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, you know, some of the stats would suggest that.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, with the vote, I think it was, I mean, your town, 96% of the population voted no, from what I've been reading.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's a huge percentage.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that, you know, irrespective of what, and I I really respect your trying to ensure the middle ground is is nurtured and facilitated, but that says something pretty dramatic, doesn't it?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: And what do you put that down to, do you think?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's funny.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it did those figures do look extremely dramatic.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, as so there were five people at my poll booth that voted yes, and three of them came from my household, and I'm pretty sure I know who the other two people were, you know.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I know I know who voted no, you know, and I know that they are not raging, extreme right wing, like they are not traumatic people.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: This is why I felt very I I really want to stress that I don't think we're as different, as divided as we might.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, those figures look alarming, but when you actually look at the people voting, I would describe the majority of them as moderates.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they just slightly on the different side.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually think painting people with a brush, you know, calling them racist, bigots, closed-minded, that's actually just going to push people further away.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I mean, I think I think absolutely regional Australia is by and large conservative in terms of how it votes.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think changes are underway, like with the um marriage, uh, the marriage equality vote, country, Australia largely voted in favor of um gay marriage.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that was what, 10 years ago?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: I actually can't remember when it was, but I wonder if that vote was held 10 years before it had been.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: We probably would have voted no.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so I think progress, like progress, if that's what you call becoming less conservative, is happening.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's happening slowly.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I just have no interest in fanning the flames of this great divide between and it's the same as the city.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there were lots of moderates that voted no here in the city too.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's a sort of a microcosm, it's not dissimilar.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: Just you mentioned raising your children, I don't know their age, but um, you know, for example, a lot of rural uh kids that are raised in rural environments, as they get older, they need to move to the city for jobs, for education, and all of those things.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Has that changed?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: And do you think that that is a factor in people's consideration if they have younger families?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if they're retiring and they're all their kids are older, like my kids are in their 20s, it's you know not an issue.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: But if if you've got younger kids, their trajectory can be impacted.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: How do you feel about that?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: And do you see that as an issue?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's really funny.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think it comes down to what sort of things are important to you as a family.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I mean, my kids, one of them still in primary school.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think primary school in regional and remote areas is that this golden era, it's amazing.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think things get more complicated in high school.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think if you've got academic kids who want to have access to a full range of subjects, um in small towns, schools just cannot offer every subject.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: Lots, lots of small town schools, high schools won't offer three unit maths, um, all sorts of things like that.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: So there's sort of three paths, I guess, you can go down.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: And one is to stay where you are and keep sending your kids to the small high school.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: And there are brilliant teachers, and there's, you know, that that doesn't mean that that's necessarily about Bad experience, but you know, small high schools can't offer a full range of subjects.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's for sure.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Also, you know, you're looking at classes with two or three kids in it, you know, the number of people, it really shrinks.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Then there's other families who choose to move away and move to a bigger town so they can send their kids to a you know a bigger high school.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's the other option where you stay where you are, but you send your kids away to boarding school.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I married a farmer, our work is here.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, his work is here, rather.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: I just live I just live in the farm.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not a farmer.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: His work is here.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: We, you know, we've got kids that are quite academic, so we've chosen to send them away to boarding school, which is absolutely heartbreaking.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: This was not part of my life plan, you know, to like wave goodbye to my 12-year-old daughter and in her little cubicle with her overnight bag.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: But when you sort of weigh up, I guess, what the pros and cons, or at least what the perceived pros and cons are, um, that was an option that we chose.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: So in an ideal world, um, all high schools throughout all of regional Australia would be big enough, they would have all the subjects, they would have all the extracurricular activities.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: We'd all, you know, no one would have to move or send their kids away, but that's just actually not the reality.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's part of this sort of two-sided coin of living out, you know, where just the populate population density is so much less.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like you get freedom, you get all this amazing beauty and nature, you get to live this very different life that's not, you know, dictated by kind of the urban laws.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: But there's a trade-off.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: And the trade-off is that we just can't expect to have access to the same quality of services as you do get in the city.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a really important point.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, look, going to boarding school is also expensive and it's got to be, you know, factored in.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so I understand that that must be quite challenging on one level, but I understand that, you know, they'll either come back and work in the community or they'll go on their journey.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: And and lots of rural families make it work.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, you've highlighted obviously uh reality.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: And do you see that changing in any way?
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that boils down to, or do you think it will stay the same as it has for many generations, where that's often the case?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't know.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I have a friend in who lives an hour west, and she is um, she's Scandinavian, so she sort of didn't, doesn't have any of this sort of um Anglo boarding school cultural background.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she's got three children, her husband flies in, flies out for work.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and there's no way she's sending them to boarding school.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: She just thinks that's ridiculous.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: So she's actually taken the decision to homeschool her kids.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: And the things that she does with them.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, one of her oldest son has turned into this champion weightlifter.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: He gets coached by this amazing coach via Zoom, you know, that he gets the technique where he's winning all these medals everywhere.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: She, you know, you can absolutely use, you know, new technology to have access to all sorts of things now.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a good point, yeah.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's there would I mean there are certainly options.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think it just comes down to basically how driven and um how motivated, you know, the parents are to make them happen.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and perhaps I'm not that motivated.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, to be honest, actually, but you've pointed out another very, I think, a very valid issue, which is, you know, for mothers and wives in the country, the role often is quite multifactorial at a whole other level.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, whether it's homeschooling or deciding to, you know, as you have to send your child to boarding school, you know, that's they're huge.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I suppose you don't have necessarily, I mean, you do have the option to keep them home and send them to the local school, but to your point, you know, these are big decisions.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: And also I think it's interesting from, you know, separate to the children, but also, you know, your responsibility there is supporting your husband's choice.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's his farm, that's where you've moved, and that's sort of, if you like, the terms.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you're fortunate because you're a writer and a journalist, so you have that portable uh work, like I do.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and but that's not always the case.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I I'm sure it can be a little isolating at times.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: Would that be right?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and by isolating, do you mean well, in the context of you have to actually make the right decision.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like the if you do send your child to boarding school, you're not in the school community, for example, in your local town, right?
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, that could be a good thing.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because what does happen, and this is what's heartbreaking about when these, you know, when you hit high school time for small towns, because not only are like, you know, the numbers of kids dropping in the school if if you send your kids away to boarding school, but the time and resources and effort of of those parents are directed, you know, to the East Coast or wherever the boarding school is.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: And on weekends, you know, we jump in our cars and we buzz off and we visit our kids over in the city, which is all fine.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's of course you're gonna do that with your own kids.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: But it I've certainly noticed just in the last couple of years since my oldest has started going to boarding school, there's just less time for me to put into my own community, which I love and adore.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I've got to remember high school is not forever.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: This is a phase of life, but it does sending your kids away does cost the community something.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: And yourself.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like because, like, for example, as you say, you go to like I think of you know, with my kids.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I was at the school every day, it was very intense and exhausting at times.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: Just, you know, pick up and just you're very sort of as you are in your community.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I can imagine, I mean, there's pros and cons, like there are to like there is to everything.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that's a very valid point that you you're putting your energy into wherever your child is going.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: And if that's an hour away or whatever, that's very time consuming.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: But also for you as a mum, you know, you're not getting to put that into the local community, but I'm sure you do that in other ways, like for example, what you are doing, which is Galar and the book that you've written.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: So everyone finds a way to contribute, I suppose, you know.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I tell you what, one really great thing about um boarding school is they are very strict with phone use.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: There are lockboxes where phones get handed in and locked up.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: I have not had to manage phone, like I haven't had to be a policewoman for phone usage.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel very grateful for that.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's true.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I suppose um it teaches it sort of how we grew up, isn't it?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: Without our phones.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: We just grew up, just it just wasn't even a thing.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it's something that um that next generation just doesn't even know about.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh in fact, it's quite extraordinary anyway, isn't it?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: That they they're so generally IT connected all the time.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so I suppose that is a benefit of boarding school, not to mention the incredible socialization.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: I I mean, there's lots of benefits.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so for you, you know, just finally, I suppose you're seeing that that there are a lot of benefits.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: What's your advice for anyone thinking of making that move to the country or you know, whether it be an hour from town or five hours from town?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: What's your what's your advice?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, it's think about work before you move.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: So there's um, I mean, I just naively, you know, I quit my job at the paper and I thought, no worries, I'll just I'll just get another sort of media job.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: Don't worry when I move there.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: That basically I had to start my own magazine.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Go you, but that's a good it's amazing you've done that.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right, well, that's it.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: It does, but but you know, think about work and uh it they're um think about work or being open to doing different types of work.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean definitely.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: But my set the second piece of advice, and this is not rocket science, it's you move out and just join in community groups.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: Every community is everything.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: We just do not have the same.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've I love going to the city.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: I love because I can consume, I can go and watch a show, I can go and eat at a restaurant, you can you can consume all these wonderful things in small towns.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: You have to create it yourself.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: And really, it's all about the relationships you have with people, even with people you don't necessarily want to be friends with, but it's this sort of fabric of community life and then creating something together, that is what makes this life.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: So volunteer your time.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: And and that, you know, I don't know.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I didn't do that in the city, but that is my biggest piece of advice.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: And people will just immediately respect you for, you know, valuing uh, you know, seeing how important it is to contribute to this community.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so for you, what would be your highlight sort of contribution or community experience other than your magazine, which is clearly great.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: But what what would is there something outside of that like you know that really resonates for you?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Hmm, I'm trying to think of a standout one.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: But do you know what?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: This isn't my personal experience, but it's my sister-in-law's.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: She lives further west in a much smaller town, and she has just last year put on an amateur production of Shrek, the musical, this wacky musical where anyone who wanted to get a part got a part.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: She would write them in.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: She so they they built this show, and I mean, some of them could sing, some of them could not sing.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the the point wasn't to make the best BAFTA-winning show.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: The point was doing this thing together.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: They for four months they'd come together for two rehearsals a week.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: And this is like the broader spectrum of people you could imagine.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like from a woman in her 80s to an 18-year-old girl, from teachers, ambos, farmers, rich farmers, poor people, you know, the whole gamut.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: And they were into together and the relationships that they built together.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: They're all now part of a WhatsApp group.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: If something happens, there's a million different people that they can call and lean on.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like that to me was the one of the most inspiring community things that I've ever seen.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that sounds beautiful.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it sounds like it was something that really engaged a broad spectrum, which of the community which I love, and it sounds like it would have been hilarious and great fun to be part of.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: But on that note, I'd like to say thank you so much, Annabelle.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's wonderful.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think your the idea of a book showcasing all of the work that you're doing and also all the stories and the nuances of life in the country is really um, it's just wonderful.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it obviously we're all we all have that dream, you know, to move to the country.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: Many people I know who do it part-time.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we've always had it something that we try and go to the country at least, you know, a few days a week if we can.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: But you've really made the move in the full sense and it sounds like you're thriving.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a credit to you.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a lovely cat.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's been wonderful.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for listening.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm blessed to have so many wonderful guests coming on the show.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: So check out my What I've Learned Instagram for updates.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile, stay tuned, kind and curious.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: Love to do it.