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119: The Overgiving Trap: From People Pleaser to Boundary Badass · The Everyday Awesome Project

• 0:32
  Polly Mertens: Hey superstars, welcome back.
• 0:33
  Polly Mertens: Polly here.
• 0:34
  Polly Mertens: Sam Pruitt.
• 0:35
  Polly Mertens: What's up, beautiful humans?
• 0:38
  Polly Mertens: Right.
• 0:38
  Polly Mertens: Today is the overgiving trap.
• 0:41
  Polly Mertens: How to invest in relationships that actually reciprocate.
• 0:46
  Samantha Pruitt: Overgiving people.
• 0:47
  Samantha Pruitt: Overgiving, dude, right?
• 0:49
  Samantha Pruitt: Overgiving.
• 0:50
  Polly Mertens: Yeah.
• 0:50
  Polly Mertens: Yeah.
• 0:51
  Polly Mertens: And you know, one of the things that led to this.
• 0:53
  Polly Mertens: So the the idea is like, you don't get in relationships what you deserve, you get what you accept, is what I've like.
• 1:00
  Polly Mertens: I just want to summarize that in the beginning, and we're going to unpack that.
• 1:03
  Polly Mertens: Um, this doesn't show up as much for you, but I like as we were studying for this, I was like, oh my God, that's me.
• 1:10
  Polly Mertens: Oh my god, that's me.
• 1:11
  Polly Mertens: So there's there's a lot that I've learned as we've prepared for this.
• 1:15
  Samantha Pruitt: Um about yeah, and I wouldn't say I don't do those things, or that's not a thing for me, but mine are more generally oriented towards family dynamics, or I mean, I have children, I have grandchildren, I have a spouse, I have extended family, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:32
  Samantha Pruitt: Right.
• 1:32
  Samantha Pruitt: So mine will end up will show up in those places more.
• 1:36
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah.
• 1:37
  Samantha Pruitt: Um, work and friends and all that.
• 1:39
  Samantha Pruitt: Oh, hell no, I'm damn good at those boundaries.
• 1:42
  Samantha Pruitt: I'm decent at the other boundaries, family unit stuff, um, but nowhere near as good because that shit takes some work.
• 1:52
  Samantha Pruitt: And I know anyone listening, some relationship in their life, if not many, many, would fall into this category.
• 2:01
  Samantha Pruitt: And we were talking about before we went on air, it's so much in the conditioning of society norms and whatever your family's belief systems or structure might have been growing up.
• 2:15
  Samantha Pruitt: And then it comes into, you know, church and school, and like it starts to just roll out from there.
• 2:20
  Polly Mertens: Yeah.
• 2:21
  Polly Mertens: I think the key word is like the conditioning, right?
• 2:23
  Polly Mertens: Conditioning.
• 2:24
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, conditioning your nervous system.
• 2:26
  Polly Mertens: And I mean, it makes sense, you know, all of your behaviors and your expressions are, you know, part of your identity or how, you know, the framing, the belief systems that you have underlying everything.
• 2:35
  Polly Mertens: That's how you see the world, your experience, how you show up for things is like, are you an overgiver?
• 2:40
  Polly Mertens: Okay, why are you an overgiver?
• 2:41
  Polly Mertens: Well, I believe that you know everybody has to like me and you know it's not safe unless, you know, whatever.
• 2:46
  Polly Mertens: Like there's these things that we're gonna unpack today.
• 2:48
  Polly Mertens: And so, yeah, that conditioning as a child, you root that, and then it just shows up bigger and bigger, whether you like it or not.
• 2:56
  Polly Mertens: Like, you know, you're sometimes like, why am I doing this again?
• 3:00
  Samantha Pruitt: Right.
• 3:01
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:02
  Samantha Pruitt: A lot of families indoctrinate their family members and children in this way, a lot of schools do, a lot of religions do.
• 3:11
  Samantha Pruitt: Um, there's a lot of environments we all get exposed to where it's like this is not just glamorized and sort of rewarded or re-um, you know, perpetuated or whatever, like there's a cycle of it, but it just becomes if we don't subscribe to it and live by that sort of way of being in the world, then people will guilt trip us, judge us, you know, there'll be negative.
• 3:37
  Samantha Pruitt: Maybe we won't be safe, maybe we'll be rejected, maybe we won't get what we need, all those things.
• 3:42
  Samantha Pruitt: So it's a real thing, and we all need to have a conversation about it.
• 3:45
  Samantha Pruitt: You were talking with somebody, and that's how it sort of came into your radar.
• 3:50
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, I'll give you the context of where, you know, this this idea and then overgiving was like the theme, but there's a lot inside this episode that we're gonna unpack today that is just like, oh my god, we could talk about that, we can talk about that, we can talk about that, you know, like boundaries is part of it, and people pleasing and low self-worth or whatever.
• 4:05
  Polly Mertens: So having a conversation last weekend, uh, it was a group of friends, and one gal was sharing how she's a um uh high-end art dealer, right?
• 4:17
  Polly Mertens: And so she was at these posh events in LA, and um, this particular interior designer that she's seen at events previously.
• 4:26
  Polly Mertens: There was like, I don't know, months leading up to this, it sounds like she'd go to a you know an art gallery thing or an art, you know, art, art, art, whatever stuff, and she'd meet this interior designer, and then she's like, Oh yeah, hey, we should have coffee, let's get together.
• 4:38
  Polly Mertens: And she'd call her that week and she wouldn't call her back.
• 4:42
  Polly Mertens: And she was like, hmm, and then she'd see her like the next week or next month or something, and again, so this perpetuated.
• 4:47
  Polly Mertens: And so this the prior week prior, you know, she's like, I don't know what's going on here.
• 4:53
  Polly Mertens: She tells me when we're in person, like, yeah, let's get together.
• 4:57
  Polly Mertens: And then I call her and she doesn't return my call.
• 4:58
  Polly Mertens: And then she's and she and the interior designer's like, Oh, I forgot, I'm so sorry, you know, and it's like over and over again, right?
• 5:05
  Polly Mertens: And so I'm like, hold up, right?
• 5:08
  Polly Mertens: Like, why are you, you know, why are you wanting to reach out to this person so much?
• 5:13
  Polly Mertens: What what is it you're trying to establish, you know?
• 5:15
  Polly Mertens: And what's the chase about?
• 5:17
  Polly Mertens: Exactly, exactly.
• 5:18
  Polly Mertens: And what's coming out in the way she's expressing it is like the the tone and the delivery of it is like something's wrong with me.
• 5:26
  Polly Mertens: Like, why doesn't she like me?
• 5:28
  Polly Mertens: Why does she keep you know, she's trying to understand what she's doing wrong?
• 5:32
  Samantha Pruitt: Where this is immediately takes it as personal rejection, yes, and that it's something in her.
• 5:38
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:39
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, like I have to adjust, I have to adapt, I have to do something different for this person to like me.
• 5:44
  Polly Mertens: What and then I was like, Well, hold up, I'm all you know, and one of the things that spilled out as a part of like her subconscious was, wow, I think I just want everyone to like me, you know.
• 5:55
  Polly Mertens: I just want everyone to like me.
• 5:56
  Polly Mertens: And I was like, Oh hell no, that's like a low standard.
• 6:00
  Polly Mertens: That's like perfection.
• 6:01
  Polly Mertens: It's like you'll never have everyone like you'll never achieve perfection.
• 6:05
  Polly Mertens: So let's unpack that and untangle that to start, right?
• 6:09
  Polly Mertens: So that's where this started.
• 6:11
  Polly Mertens: And then I was like, mm-hmm.
• 6:12
  Polly Mertens: And then, you know, always in these conversations, if I see something in them, I'm like, okay, why am I seeing it?
• 6:17
  Polly Mertens: Like there's something over here.
• 6:19
  Samantha Pruitt: How do I relate to it?
• 6:20
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:21
  Polly Mertens: And and in the moment I was able to give her a lot of great, like, no, like believe in herself and like no, why you don't have to chase this woman.
• 6:29
  Polly Mertens: And, you know, your friends, you know, people that are meant for you will absolutely, you know, want they'll reciprocate, right?
• 6:36
  Polly Mertens: Not not, oh, I forgot, you know, over and over again.
• 6:40
  Polly Mertens: So I was able to, you know, speak that.
• 6:42
  Polly Mertens: And then I was like, hold up, where am I doing any of this in my life?
• 6:45
  Polly Mertens: You know, and then take a step back.
• 6:47
  Polly Mertens: And as we prepared for this episode, I was like, oh shoot, there's there's things in this for me.
• 6:53
  Polly Mertens: So one of the things I wanted us to, you know, put out there in the let's call it the category of overgiving or like the the red flags, like the telltale signs that you're doing it.
• 7:03
  Polly Mertens: Because when I saw these, I was like, okay, that would be me in a lot of you know, intimate relationship and relationship with my mom.
• 7:12
  Polly Mertens: I see this.
• 7:12
  Polly Mertens: So I just want to put them out there.
• 7:14
  Polly Mertens: We'll talk about the five like red flags if that's happening for you, unless there was something else you wanted to ask about that story.
• 7:20
  Samantha Pruitt: Well, you said uh what seemed to come about through this dialogue that the two of you had and her sharing, I love her candidness and her willing to inquire within herself as to what was going on here.
• 7:33
  Samantha Pruitt: Um, uh a needing or a wanting to be liked.
• 7:36
  Samantha Pruitt: Is that how she sort of terms it?
• 7:38
  Samantha Pruitt: And I see it show up a lot as a wanting to be wanted or a wanting to be needed.
• 7:46
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, I see that a lot as well.
• 7:50
  Samantha Pruitt: Um, and they're all similar, right?
• 7:53
  Samantha Pruitt: But the listener might identify with, okay, if they like me, they don't, or whatever.
• 7:57
  Samantha Pruitt: But in other relationships, I have such a need to be needed or wanted to provide value, deliver value to that relationship in whatever way, shape, or form, so I can be valued, so I will be seen as valuable.
• 8:12
  Samantha Pruitt: So that's another way that it can show up.
• 8:14
  Samantha Pruitt: And basically we're talking about the same damn thing, but it can show up in different ways.
• 8:17
  Samantha Pruitt: So I just want to kind of throw that into the mix.
• 8:19
  Polly Mertens: And I just raise my hand, I'm like, wow, I have been doing that subconsciously.
• 8:23
  Polly Mertens: You're you're absolutely right.
• 8:25
  Polly Mertens: Like, and not I I don't look at it that way.
• 8:27
  Polly Mertens: It's like, oh, I just care about people.
• 8:29
  Polly Mertens: I'm being kind, right?
• 8:30
  Polly Mertens: Like you think what is behind it is a generousness, but it's a neediness, actually, you know, or it shows, and I think part of one of the things when I was, you know, studying this topic is they were saying people who like are too available, they're just like insecure.
• 8:47
  Polly Mertens: Like you just see, you know, if they're too available, they're always there, they're chasing you, they're like, How are you?
• 8:52
  Polly Mertens: You know, always up, you know, up in your business or whatever.
• 8:55
  Polly Mertens: You're like, get a life, you know.
• 8:58
  Samantha Pruitt: So it's a it's a it could just be a proving ground situation.
• 9:02
  Samantha Pruitt: Um, like in work environments, this can show up of like you have a bunch of skills, you're pretty smart at this or that, or whatever, you're in a work team environment or with a boss or whatever, where you just keep like trying to deliver the goods and show I'm yeah, I have a direct example of a group I'm working with right in a work environment where like there's this posturing and this dynamic going on with the staff where they're all trying to like deliver the goods for like let me show you how valuable I am, let me show you my skill set.
• 9:33
  Samantha Pruitt: And there's just it's creating all this conflict and dysfunction.
• 9:36
  Samantha Pruitt: Ultimately, I'm holding leadership responsible for creating an environment where people aren't being seen, being respected.
• 9:45
  Samantha Pruitt: We don't even understand what their skills are, right?
• 9:48
  Samantha Pruitt: So they're being kind of like forced to awkwardly like socially go against each other and compete and throw each other under the bus trying to make themselves.
• 9:56
  Samantha Pruitt: Like parent's favorite child or something like that.
• 9:58
  Samantha Pruitt: Yes, totally that kind of weirdness can happen really easily.
• 10:03
  Samantha Pruitt: It's pretty common.
• 10:05
  Samantha Pruitt: Again, coming sort of from this same root place of like, I want to be seen as valuable.
• 10:11
  Samantha Pruitt: I want to contribute here.
• 10:12
  Samantha Pruitt: I want you to recognize my strengths.
• 10:15
  Polly Mertens: Yeah.
• 10:15
  Samantha Pruitt: I want you to see my value.
• 10:17
  Polly Mertens: Yeah.
• 10:17
  Polly Mertens: And we'll talk about like how we talk about the conditioning.
• 10:20
  Polly Mertens: We'll we'll share in a few moments about like how it gets conditioned in some of the ways, right?
• 10:25
  Polly Mertens: You know, I'm sure there's everybody's unique, but so I just want to lay out the like the five red flags of let's just call it over overgiving, you know.
• 10:33
  Polly Mertens: Like if any of this resonates, put whatever label you want on it for yourself.
• 10:37
  Polly Mertens: But that's what we're labeling it the overgiving trap.
• 10:39
  Polly Mertens: So um, you're always the one initiating, right?
• 10:43
  Polly Mertens: Like you're the one, like, hey, let's do this.
• 10:45
  Polly Mertens: Hey, you're the you know, so you're always the one initiating.
• 10:48
  Polly Mertens: You say yes when you mean no.
• 10:50
  Polly Mertens: And sometimes that's you know, we all do that sometimes, but like you do it more often than you want to.
• 10:56
  Polly Mertens: They ghost you or they just don't reciprocate.
• 10:58
  Polly Mertens: Like it's not equal, it's not um mutual, right?
• 11:02
  Polly Mertens: Whatever that is, energy, time, thinking of you, gifts, whatever, you know.
• 11:07
  Polly Mertens: Gen, you know, hey, let me buy lunch, you buy lunch, you know, or acts of service.
• 11:11
  Polly Mertens: You know, I was thinking about this with the five love languages, you know, those acts of service, right?
• 11:16
  Polly Mertens: Type thing, it can be super imbalanced.
• 11:18
  Polly Mertens: You feel resentful after helping.
• 11:21
  Polly Mertens: Mm-hmm.
• 11:22
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, that's that's so yucky feeling.
• 11:25
  Polly Mertens: Yeah.
• 11:26
  Polly Mertens: So just knowing like, as this any of this resonating, you're like, oh dang, that one that one hit me, right?
• 11:34
  Samantha Pruitt: So and more subtle can be just feeling underappreciated.
• 11:38
  Samantha Pruitt: Yes, right?
• 11:39
  Samantha Pruitt: That can be really subtle.
• 11:40
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah in many environments, it shows up there, it's kind of sneaky, it's not so painfully obvious as the ones you're throwing out.
• 11:48
  Polly Mertens: Well, you were telling the story, and I think this is true for a relationship I've been in, where like the dynamics of like the household, like you know, like maintaining the household or something like that, right?
• 11:59
  Polly Mertens: And so you're saying, you know, if somebody you were, and you can bring up the example with your grandson who's now in your household, and how the balance of so I was like, well, you know, I used to make the breakfast, the lunch, the dinners, the cleaning, you know, got the cars all fixed, uh, did the book, you know, like planned the vacation.
• 12:18
  Polly Mertens: I mean, like, huge majority of, like you said, let's say running the household or being part of the team, right?
• 12:26
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, in your partner relationship.
• 12:29
  Samantha Pruitt: We're not talking about with young children, you know, where you think, okay, when the children are young, you're obviously doing a lot more of their responsibilities.
• 12:38
  Samantha Pruitt: And then over time, this is a thing called parenting, you train the children and you uh bring them sufficiently to become more independent and capable, right?
• 12:47
  Samantha Pruitt: And so they start learning their own roles and responsibilities.
• 12:50
  Samantha Pruitt: Ideally, you create functional human adults at some point and like balance.
• 12:55
  Polly Mertens: In your audio, I'm not hearing you.
• 12:57
  Polly Mertens: Is it me?
• 12:57
  Samantha Pruitt: You can't hear me?
• 12:58
  Samantha Pruitt: Oh, now I can hear you.
• 12:59
  Samantha Pruitt: Can you hear me?
• 13:00
  Samantha Pruitt: Can you hear me?
• 13:00
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, can you hear me now?
• 13:02
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah.
• 13:02
  Samantha Pruitt: Oh, and now my mic is in there.
• 13:05
  Samantha Pruitt: How's that?
• 13:06
  Samantha Pruitt: Okay.
• 13:07
  Samantha Pruitt: Um that's a normal process of being you know, we can talk a little bit about our youth and how things cut came about that we might have these propensities, right?
• 13:19
  Samantha Pruitt: But what you're talking about is in a partner relationship or in a housemate relationship or whatever the might be might be, however you live your life.
• 13:28
  Samantha Pruitt: Many of us don't live alone.
• 13:30
  Samantha Pruitt: Um, you know, who is doing what can many times be unspoken.
• 13:36
  Samantha Pruitt: And it's interesting when you get into that relationship initially, let's call it a uh roommate or a partner situation where you're like in a shared house, for example, you might come into that wanting to really contribute.
• 13:53
  Samantha Pruitt: And again, show your value and show what you're capable of and deliver worth and all of those kind of things.
• 13:59
  Samantha Pruitt: And next thing you know, you're stuck in this cycle or this trap we're calling the overgiving trap.
• 14:04
  Samantha Pruitt: You're all of a sudden the one always cooking, cleaning, doing the dishes, etc., or the one who's being financially responsible, or the one who's taking care of whatever other the roles and responsibilities are in the house.
• 14:17
  Samantha Pruitt: And lots of people don't even have awareness that that is happening.
• 14:23
  Samantha Pruitt: It's just by default how it develops, and then you get stuck in the trap, right?
• 14:30
  Samantha Pruitt: And if you want to change that because it doesn't feel good, you feel resentment, you feel unappreciated, whatever the things are.
• 14:37
  Samantha Pruitt: You want to rebalance things, right?
• 14:38
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, renegotiate, you need to renegotiate that exactly.
• 14:43
  Samantha Pruitt: And you know, you'll hear that sometimes from parents how oh, my child doesn't appreciate anything that I do for them or whatever.
• 14:51
  Samantha Pruitt: They've created that dynamic.
• 14:53
  Polly Mertens: Yeah.
• 14:54
  Samantha Pruitt: They need to take responsibility for therefore then changing it.
• 14:58
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah.
• 14:58
  Samantha Pruitt: And if you're not understanding so far, you are a co-creator of your experience and you have great responsibility in every relationship to generate reciprocal giving and taking and energy and balance and respect and appreciation.
• 15:15
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, something I just wanted to double-click on what you were talking about, that imbalance in relationship and starting to negotiate.
• 15:21
  Polly Mertens: So I found, you know, at times I've been aware of like the imbalance and like try to do that negotiating.
• 15:28
  Polly Mertens: People don't want to renegotiate.
• 15:30
  Polly Mertens: They're like, What are you talking about?
• 15:32
  Samantha Pruitt: It's fine like it is.
• 15:33
  Samantha Pruitt: You know, like like well, first of all, they'll be in denial, won't they?
• 15:36
  Samantha Pruitt: A lot of times they're like, What do you mean?
• 15:38
  Samantha Pruitt: I take the trash out once a month.
• 15:40
  Samantha Pruitt: I do all this.
• 15:41
  Samantha Pruitt: I you know, I do all oh hell yeah.
• 15:44
  Polly Mertens: Oh man.
• 15:45
  Polly Mertens: And yeah, that renegotiating doesn't usually go well.
• 15:47
  Polly Mertens: So I just want to say, like, do it early.
• 15:50
  Polly Mertens: Or depending on the the viability of the relationship, is it more important that they see the imbalance and go, oh my God, you're right.
• 15:57
  Polly Mertens: Oh my God.
• 15:58
  Polly Mertens: Like I remember coming and staying with you guys, and how beautiful you do a lot inside the house, and Dave does a lot outside the house.
• 16:05
  Polly Mertens: And it was just like totally accepted, and you're both thriving in.
• 16:09
  Polly Mertens: I mean, you know, I'm sure you would love to have maid service all the time, but like you're like, I'm cool, I like my house a certain way, and I want and I'll take care of it.
• 16:17
  Polly Mertens: And Dave loves to tinker outside and take care of all that stuff.
• 16:19
  Polly Mertens: And you're like, great, you take care of all that, and I'll take care of all this.
• 16:23
  Samantha Pruitt: Yep.
• 16:23
  Samantha Pruitt: I want nothing to do with maintaining cars or the garden or any of those things.
• 16:27
  Samantha Pruitt: But my interior house is I like it a certain way, and this is how that will be going.
• 16:33
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah.
• 16:34
  Samantha Pruitt: And that's just an agreement that we have.
• 16:36
  Polly Mertens: So you can make these agreements, yeah.
• 16:38
  Polly Mertens: And they can look like however, you know, and if and I'm sure well, and before Dave retired, there was a lot more that he was doing outside of the house.
• 16:46
  Polly Mertens: So maybe he had a fraction of what he was able to do on the exterior of the house, or you he hired it, or whatever you guys did, however you negotiated that.
• 16:54
  Polly Mertens: But it was in partnership.
• 16:57
  Polly Mertens: It wasn't an imbalanced partnership, it was like, yeah, that that that feels equitable or that feels balanced to both of you, you know.
• 17:06
  Polly Mertens: So yeah.
• 17:07
  Samantha Pruitt: And you'll have that with taking care of kids or pets, or like we're getting a little bit older, so now it's a taking care of our parents situation, right?
• 17:17
  Samantha Pruitt: We're in this really awkward group, age group now, where it's like, damn, and which generation?
• 17:23
  Samantha Pruitt: They're all they're ever they're on all sides.
• 17:26
  Polly Mertens: They're just coming for us.
• 17:28
  Polly Mertens: The kids, the parents, but every, you know, they're living longer and they're growing, you know, they're not able to get out on their own.
• 17:35
  Polly Mertens: You're like, can y'all just get out and you know, do what we did as an ex, right?
• 17:40
  Polly Mertens: Like we were on our own at 16, 18, whatever.
• 17:42
  Polly Mertens: See ya, you know, bye.
• 17:44
  Samantha Pruitt: But you know, if you don't ever think about it and create awareness and dialogue around it, even if it's just you figuring it out for yourself, let's say you do get resistance from the other players in this play, this stage play of your life, you do get resistance.
• 18:00
  Samantha Pruitt: So what?
• 18:01
  Samantha Pruitt: I don't necessarily need to have full agreement from all these people, by the way.
• 18:06
  Samantha Pruitt: Uh, I'll still be doing it.
• 18:08
  Samantha Pruitt: Like if I want to take care of myself in a certain way and have certain boundaries or have my life go a certain way, I still am gonna have agency over that.
• 18:17
  Samantha Pruitt: I don't need everybody to sign off on it.
• 18:19
  Polly Mertens: Well, I want to touch on something here because if you're in the trap, which I have been, and I'm guilty of this, I just want to touch on two other things that I just thought of is one is avoiding conflict at all costs.
• 18:30
  Polly Mertens: Like not speaking up even though it felt imbalanced, you want something else, whatever.
• 18:34
  Polly Mertens: And the second one is like losing a sense of what you actually want.
• 18:37
  Polly Mertens: Like, uh, does it matter to me that you know I'm doing all of this, or wouldn't it be nice if they did this or whatever?
• 18:44
  Polly Mertens: Like you just becomes like, oh, I I just do all that.
• 18:47
  Polly Mertens: Like you take on so much of the responsibility, the overgiver, if you will, in the beginning, it's like, well, of course I'm doing all this.
• 18:54
  Polly Mertens: You it's like, do you even want to do, you know, that type of thing.
• 18:58
  Polly Mertens: So yeah.
• 18:59
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:00
  Polly Mertens: And then I find, you know, one of the things is all of that is if you get out of that relationship, then attracting relationships where you're the giver and the other is the taker.
• 19:07
  Polly Mertens: Like, if that's how you were indoctrinated, conditioned as a child, you know, I can think of a couple of relationships of mine where that is what I've attracted.
• 19:18
  Polly Mertens: Like, you know, like a a what do they say, a victim needs a vic a victimizer, right?
• 19:23
  Polly Mertens: You know, a uh somebody who's overgiving needs a taker kind of thing.
• 19:28
  Polly Mertens: So you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna match up and go, oh, perfect.
• 19:31
  Polly Mertens: You need yeah, I can give you a lot.
• 19:34
  Polly Mertens: And yeah.
• 19:35
  Samantha Pruitt: So and how you get into those, um, or any of these dynamics, we should pick that apart, but one specifically that you're talking about is you know, you don't really have clarity for yourself on what you are trying to attract.
• 19:50
  Samantha Pruitt: So, yes, now I have a grandson living with me, he's 18, but you know, he's learning how to be an adult.
• 19:56
  Samantha Pruitt: And the other day we just had a conversation about like what type of people he's interested in dating and what are the things he'd be looking for or what is important to him.
• 20:06
  Samantha Pruitt: And it was a really fun and enlightening conversation.
• 20:10
  Samantha Pruitt: If you haven't had one of those recently with an 18-year-old, um, it was taking some time to really get that clarity, yeah, right?
• 20:19
  Samantha Pruitt: Because, huh, maybe you're not gonna be.
• 20:20
  Polly Mertens: But who's ever asked him that's probably no one, yeah.
• 20:24
  Samantha Pruitt: Nobody, and you surely don't want to just ask your peers because what they say is not what you should immediately take on as your list, yeah, right?
• 20:33
  Samantha Pruitt: And it might be superficial or toxic or whatever, you don't freaking know.
• 20:38
  Samantha Pruitt: It's really about you and your sense of the world and your value system, etc.
• 20:44
  Samantha Pruitt: But many people don't take the time to either have that dialogue with somebody or themselves and get that clarity for sure, for sure.
• 20:52
  Polly Mertens: And I want to go a little bit into the cost of it.
• 20:55
  Polly Mertens: So, you know, I want to just dig on that pain a little bit because if you if you're starting to hear some things in here, you're like, oh, I think I'm doing some of this.
• 21:02
  Polly Mertens: Like, I just want to hit a little harder on like what it's costing you, you know, and I can I can definitely um raise my hand for a bunch of these.
• 21:11
  Polly Mertens: So you attract more takers.
• 21:13
  Polly Mertens: We talked about that.
• 21:13
  Polly Mertens: So givers will attract takers, you know.
• 21:16
  Polly Mertens: You build up resentment towards people, whether the person you're helping, if it's in an intimate relationship or, you know, it could be caregiving for family members, whatever this resentment can build.
• 21:27
  Polly Mertens: We talked about you lose your identity, right?
• 21:29
  Polly Mertens: You become the helpful one, right?
• 21:31
  Polly Mertens: Like always there to help, help, help.
• 21:33
  Polly Mertens: And then it can lead to walking on eggshells to manage others' emotions, you know, because that's a big part of this.
• 21:38
  Polly Mertens: You were you feel responsible for other the other person's emotions.
• 21:41
  Polly Mertens: Like, oh, I hope, you know, because your love, that's a source of your love, your belonging, whatever, like being valued and stuff.
• 21:48
  Polly Mertens: So you're walking on eggshells, and that's just like energy.
• 21:52
  Polly Mertens: And the energy drain instead of fulfillment.
• 21:56
  Polly Mertens: Like you're expressed, you're you're you're seen, you're fulfilled, you're you know, reciprocity.
• 22:01
  Polly Mertens: So, you know, those are just some of the some of the costs.
• 22:03
  Polly Mertens: And you know, we probably didn't hit on all of them, but just knowing like what is that costing you?
• 22:09
  Polly Mertens: And is that how you want to continue living?
• 22:11
  Polly Mertens: Or can you set yourself free?
• 22:12
  Polly Mertens: And if it's a trap, there's a way out, right?
• 22:14
  Samantha Pruitt: Like there's there's a way out of there.
• 22:16
  Samantha Pruitt: That last one, that energy, uh circle of energy that.
• 22:19
  Samantha Pruitt: Reciprocal between humans, you know, you and I are big energy people.
• 22:22
  Samantha Pruitt: I always perceive that um as giving blood.
• 22:26
  Samantha Pruitt: If it's a relationship where I feel like, God, every time I go to see this person, it's like I'm giving a pint of blood and a pint of blood and a pint of blood, right?
• 22:34
  Samantha Pruitt: But you're never re-generating that back into your emotional body, your physical body.
• 22:42
  Samantha Pruitt: It just feels like, geez, did I just give blood?
• 22:45
  Samantha Pruitt: You know, you feel drained, exhausted afterwards.
• 22:47
  Polly Mertens: It doesn't feel good.
• 22:48
  Polly Mertens: Yeah.
• 22:49
  Polly Mertens: And you only want to, you know, nobody's, you're not gonna want to hang out with that.
• 22:52
  Polly Mertens: Like, no, hell no, right.
• 22:54
  Polly Mertens: So I find that some of that like erodes that self-worth, you know, like that gal with the interior designer.
• 23:00
  Polly Mertens: Like she just starts questioning, is something wrong with me?
• 23:03
  Polly Mertens: Like you start to question who you are.
• 23:05
  Polly Mertens: You get this identity confusion, maybe like, what do I even want?
• 23:09
  Polly Mertens: And why doesn't she like me?
• 23:10
  Polly Mertens: And you know, what's wrong with me?
• 23:12
  Polly Mertens: And just this this whole, you know, that and then resenting it.
• 23:16
  Polly Mertens: Like, what's you know, she's like, oh, she's snobbish or whatever.
• 23:18
  Polly Mertens: It's like, hold up, you know, not everybody's gonna like you, not everybody's your people, right?
• 23:23
  Polly Mertens: So yeah, exactly.
• 23:24
  Polly Mertens: Emotional exhaustion, let's just get rid of it all.
• 23:27
  Polly Mertens: But I want to talk a little bit about like some of the things when we research this, where this was coming from, like we talked about that condition.
• 23:32
  Polly Mertens: So, like what what's what's coming behind this, right?
• 23:37
  Polly Mertens: So um I would say for me anyway, you know, they I have this little list of love was conditional, right?
• 23:49
  Polly Mertens: So if you grew up in a household or caregivers or whatever where love was given to you conditionally, like if you are good or whatever, your needs were met with withdrawal, criticism, or punishment.
• 24:01
  Polly Mertens: Oh, you know, frame that for however you'd like in your life.
• 24:04
  Polly Mertens: So if your needs were met with withdrawal, criticism, or punishment, and emotional safety, this is key because the nervous system and our you know human survival instinct is about safety.
• 24:14
  Polly Mertens: So if our emotional safety depended on being easy, like no worries, like easy, good, or low maintenance, or like you talked about, like being invisible.
• 24:25
  Polly Mertens: Like it started to become normal for us to be easy, like be the good girl, be low maintenance, you know, um there's excellent, the quiet one.
• 24:36
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, there's this excellent TED talk that I absolutely love, um, where this gal says, you know, when there's a uh a family member that is of high needs in the family unit, whatever dynamic that is, sibling, parent, whatever, if there's someone of high needs, alcoholism, depression, um, disability, you know, something, um, that person getting attention, the sometimes the good girl shows up, like, oh no, mommy, I won't, you know, we'll take care of Bobby because he, you know, has autism or whatever it is, you know, or mommy's gut troubles, you know, disabled or depressed or emotionally un you know immature or something like that.
• 25:16
  Polly Mertens: That child begins to survive and be okay because they can be somewhat loved, or they they set signals to them.
• 25:24
  Polly Mertens: And you know, this is where I think we want to talk about that fawning.
• 25:27
  Polly Mertens: Like you you learned this, you said a year or so ago when you were doing a deep dive into the vagus nerve, right?
• 25:34
  Samantha Pruitt: So right, because the vagus nerve, and you hear a lot about the nervous system and you hear a lot about fight or flight, especially how people live today, and everybody's constantly on cortisol overload and fight or flight, and rah-roll, right around, henny penny, the sky's falling because we're stuck on our phone all day long or whatever.
• 25:51
  Samantha Pruitt: Um, and then you'll hear a little bit about the polar opposite, how the nervous system will also go into, you know, basically freezing and trying to stay safe and secure through freezing itself, but it's fawn or freeze.
• 26:07
  Samantha Pruitt: And fawn gets left out of the conversation a lot, but it's directly linked to that, right?
• 26:15
  Samantha Pruitt: So the freeze is just literally frozen like an animal.
• 26:18
  Samantha Pruitt: You can imagine a prey is coming, they're freezing, trying to stay alive, right?
• 26:23
  Samantha Pruitt: This is very primal stuff that the nervous system does to help keep us safe and alive.
• 26:28
  Polly Mertens: Yeah.
• 26:28
  Polly Mertens: And so I just want to touch on, you know, and looking, you know, doing some fact-finding for this.
• 26:33
  Polly Mertens: So fawning as a response was developed by Pete Walker.
• 26:36
  Polly Mertens: And he says it's the fourth trauma response.
• 26:38
  Polly Mertens: Like you said, fight, flight, freeze, or fawn.
• 26:40
  Polly Mertens: Instead of fighting or fleeing, a person pleases, accommodating and shrinking to stay safe, right?
• 26:47
  Polly Mertens: Often develops in childhood when we have needs to um led to when when a childhood having needs led to punishment or withdrawal.
• 26:55
  Polly Mertens: The fawn response is a nervous system pattern.
• 26:58
  Polly Mertens: Stay safe by pleasing the powerful, usually the parents, right, or the caregiver.
• 27:03
  Polly Mertens: And the opposite of our healing begins when you learn that safety no longer requires what he calls self-erasure or like being invisible or withdrawing, or like, yeah, your needs.
• 27:14
  Polly Mertens: So the nervous system to adapt and at those times says, I have needs.
• 27:20
  Polly Mertens: Oh no, if I have needs, I can risk this connection from the family unit, from that person that like that's my caregiver, right?
• 27:28
  Polly Mertens: Like that's huge, right?
• 27:29
  Polly Mertens: And if if I meet their needs, I stay safe.
• 27:34
  Polly Mertens: Like that's how this little dynamic gets conditioned.
• 27:37
  Polly Mertens: So think about that in you know, in your life, or somebody you care about, or somebody that you see these tendencies to of overgiving or people pleasing or over, you know, like you said, chasing or being wanted.
• 27:48
  Polly Mertens: Um, what maybe was going on in their family dynamic that it wasn't safe to have their needs met?
• 27:54
  Polly Mertens: Maybe I talk about that high needs person.
• 27:56
  Polly Mertens: It's like, oh, well, just whatever you need, right?
• 28:00
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, and you know you how you always hear people talk about like what kind of where they were in the family lineage, like I was the youngest child, I was the oldest child, you know, and there's all these stories we make up around that experience.
• 28:13
  Samantha Pruitt: But genuinely there are experiences also in those dynamics, especially when there's multiple children, um, limited resources, or dysfunctional family environments.
• 28:23
  Samantha Pruitt: By the way, all of this is very normal stuff.
• 28:26
  Samantha Pruitt: It's not an odd thing.
• 28:27
  Samantha Pruitt: You know, 80% of the listeners will be like, oh, yeah, that's two out of three areas.
• 28:32
  Samantha Pruitt: So you can understand based on that, um, and as you're describing, where these responses would be conditioned within you, right?
• 28:45
  Samantha Pruitt: So it's not like casting judgment on you or your family dysfunctional dynamics.
• 28:50
  Samantha Pruitt: Hey, you know, welcome to the party.
• 28:52
  Samantha Pruitt: But like understanding that, oh, I'm this way, I do these things.
• 28:57
  Samantha Pruitt: We'll just use that connection you were having with that gal the other day you keep you were referencing about the art um whatever show dealers thing.
• 29:07
  Samantha Pruitt: Um, you know, her understanding herself is the most critical part of the conversation here.
• 29:15
  Samantha Pruitt: Not going after her parents on how she was raised or you know, being pissed off at her siblings because they were high maintenance and she had to, you know, she got one piece of bread and they got the whole loaf or whatever this thing is that we tell ours, all these stories, right?
• 29:28
  Samantha Pruitt: Like that's not what's relevant today.
• 29:29
  Samantha Pruitt: What is is you understanding, oh, this was my life experience.
• 29:34
  Samantha Pruitt: And so I was conditioned and responded in a certain way.
• 29:38
  Samantha Pruitt: However, I can change that now.
• 29:40
  Samantha Pruitt: It's no longer serving me.
• 29:42
  Samantha Pruitt: I don't need to continue to be in that role.
• 29:45
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:46
  Samantha Pruitt: And it got created with it.
• 29:48
  Polly Mertens: So what we I think there's a little, so there is one thing I want to give people back their power, and that's the power of choice.
• 29:55
  Polly Mertens: And what I want you to understand is sometimes people say, they did it to me, like this dynamic of parenting or this dynamic of the way that my environment was caused me to be this way.
• 30:06
  Polly Mertens: And it's not, it's what your mind as a survival instinct said, in order to survive this, I need to do this.
• 30:14
  Polly Mertens: And you forgot it because you were little, like you're little and you're just that little young brain trying to figure out how what is the hell?
• 30:20
  Polly Mertens: What is this?
• 30:22
  Polly Mertens: You know, how do I get through this, right?
• 30:24
  Polly Mertens: How'd I get into this shit show?
• 30:26
  Samantha Pruitt: How do I survive it?
• 30:27
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, so I just want to give you your power back.
• 30:28
  Polly Mertens: You did it then, you just were too little to remember that whatever.
• 30:31
  Polly Mertens: It's like, oh, it feels like it happened to you.
• 30:33
  Polly Mertens: Nope.
• 30:33
  Polly Mertens: You can you chose like survivally to be a certain way.
• 30:37
  Polly Mertens: We talk about those strong suits and the ways to survive, whatever, but then you grow up and you're living as if you know you're still in this family to unit or family dynamic, and so in walks an interior designer that rejects you or whatever, and it's like, oh, something's wrong with me.
• 30:53
  Polly Mertens: How do I stay in the unit?
• 30:55
  Polly Mertens: How do I belong?
• 30:56
  Polly Mertens: How do I get that person to like me or whatever?
• 30:58
  Polly Mertens: I ain't what you're trying to do anymore, you know.
• 31:01
  Polly Mertens: So good.
• 31:03
  Polly Mertens: So it's updating the nervous system, right?
• 31:04
  Polly Mertens: So you had a choice then, that's how you chose, now you can choose differently.
• 31:08
  Polly Mertens: So some of these choices, I just want to like quantify them because I think these are great.
• 31:12
  Polly Mertens: So we pulled these out before the episode is like some of the retraining sounds like you can say no and still be loved.
• 31:20
  Polly Mertens: That's not what you thought as a little four-year-old, six-year-old, eight-year-old, ten-year-old, but you are a big girl now, big boy now.
• 31:27
  Polly Mertens: Like you can say no and still be loved.
• 31:29
  Polly Mertens: You can have your needs and still belong.
• 31:33
  Polly Mertens: You can have your needs and still belong.
• 31:35
  Polly Mertens: These are just new upgrades to your operating system.
• 31:39
  Polly Mertens: You can be authentic and still be safe.
• 31:42
  Polly Mertens: That's huge to the nervous system that, like, as a child, depending on the level of severity of being ostracized or you know, how that felt, or like parents withdrawing love is one of the most painful things for children.
• 31:55
  Polly Mertens: Brutal.
• 31:56
  Samantha Pruitt: Brutal.
• 31:57
  Samantha Pruitt: Right?
• 31:58
  Samantha Pruitt: Restricting or sucking out oxygen.
• 32:00
  Samantha Pruitt: Or conditioning love is poison.
• 32:05
  Samantha Pruitt: It's just really and as a society, not just parentally, but for us to do that to one another, our peers, our friends, um, our coworkers, our whatever, human to human, just treating each other that way is absolutely that should be criminal, but it's poison.
• 32:25
  Polly Mertens: It's like oxygen, you know, you just suck the oxygen.
• 32:27
  Polly Mertens: So whether they did that through, you know, verbally telling you like you're not good enough, something's you know, whatever, or I don't love you, or you whatever, like verbally.
• 32:37
  Polly Mertens: Sometimes it was they've removed themselves, like you just stop seeing that parent, or they didn't talk to you.
• 32:44
  Polly Mertens: You know, exactly.
• 32:45
  Polly Mertens: Silent treatment.
• 32:46
  Polly Mertens: So those are like some examples of how the withholding love can look and feel and sound.
• 32:51
  Polly Mertens: So if that was going on and that's how you had love demonstrated to you was very conditional, you learned, you you adapted and said, Oh, well, then I'll over I'm here, whatever you need, and you know, your needs matter, right?
• 33:04
  Samantha Pruitt: And you could still be living this right now with your partner.
• 33:07
  Samantha Pruitt: They could be doing the same freaking shenanigans.
• 33:11
  Samantha Pruitt: Or, I mean, let's be even brutally honest, you could be the one doing it.
• 33:15
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah.
• 33:15
  Samantha Pruitt: Oh, do you have awareness that you are the one doing it to the partner or the child or the family member?
• 33:23
  Samantha Pruitt: I mean, you know, if it's a conditioning, you could be the one rolling around doing it.
• 33:30
  Polly Mertens: That's true.
• 33:30
  Polly Mertens: That's true.
• 33:31
  Polly Mertens: Nice reframe.
• 33:32
  Polly Mertens: I like it.
• 33:32
  Polly Mertens: I like it.
• 33:33
  Polly Mertens: So, so let's talk about some of the like, all right.
• 33:36
  Polly Mertens: So now we know, you know, what it looks like, what it sucks like, how it feels to be an what's caused it.
• 33:43
  Polly Mertens: Like, okay, how do we how do we get out of this, right?
• 33:45
  Polly Mertens: Like, how do we start to to heal?
• 33:47
  Polly Mertens: And um, what what can we do?
• 33:49
  Polly Mertens: You know, what are some of the things we can do?
• 33:50
  Polly Mertens: And one of the, as I was, you know, thinking about this, this I can't think of any other better words to give this to.
• 33:56
  Polly Mertens: So I'm just gonna give an analogy of in my years of real estate investing, we have uh a term called uh buy box, right?
• 34:04
  Polly Mertens: And so in real estate, we say, okay, here's my buy box.
• 34:07
  Polly Mertens: I'm looking for this.
• 34:08
  Polly Mertens: Am I looking for a single family home or an apartment complex?
• 34:11
  Polly Mertens: Am I looking for something in the thousand thousand dollar range or million-dollar range?
• 34:15
  Polly Mertens: Am I looking for whatever, you know, so a buy box is like how do I define that?
• 34:19
  Polly Mertens: And investors get slapped when they don't stay inside their buy box, right?
• 34:23
  Polly Mertens: Like you lose money, you whatever, lose sleep, whatever, stay inside your buy box, and you define that.
• 34:28
  Polly Mertens: When I was talking with my friend the other day, and you know, I was like, I was like, hold up.
• 34:34
  Polly Mertens: This gal is demonstrating to you who she is.
• 34:37
  Polly Mertens: She's not, you know, reciprocating, she's not like following up with you, giving excuses when, you know, she she you know doesn't want to see you or does isn't, you know, reciprocating.
• 34:49
  Polly Mertens: I said, do you know what's in like I, you know, we've talked oftentimes in our other podcasts about the wheel of life, right?
• 34:55
  Polly Mertens: So in these categories of your life, if it was like a pie, one category being, let's say, friends, relationships, you know, um, community.
• 35:03
  Polly Mertens: What is a 10 for you?
• 35:05
  Polly Mertens: Like, what does it look like to have meaningful relationships or reciprocal relationships or people that care about you?
• 35:11
  Polly Mertens: How would you how would you know it if you had it, right?
• 35:15
  Polly Mertens: And I said, Do you know what that looks like and feels like?
• 35:18
  Polly Mertens: So what's your buy box in the area of friendships?
• 35:21
  Polly Mertens: And if it's this low-ass standard, like people can just like not call me back for no, no, hells no.
• 35:32
  Polly Mertens: No, hell's no.
• 35:34
  Polly Mertens: So defining your buy box, defining the relationships you want to have in your life, like who are your people?
• 35:39
  Polly Mertens: And some of that's easy.
• 35:40
  Polly Mertens: Like, you know when you're around people that you that the the values is just totally in in in alignment, right?
• 35:46
  Polly Mertens: And people show you who they are.
• 35:48
  Polly Mertens: Like if they're not as interested in you, like next.
• 35:52
  Samantha Pruitt: Well, why don't you give an example of some things that are in your buy box?
• 35:55
  Samantha Pruitt: So we'll just call it like relationship buy box.
• 35:57
  Samantha Pruitt: I'm gonna buy into this relationship.
• 36:00
  Polly Mertens: Well, so I'll give you an example that I actually shared with her on that day, which was um so there was this women's circle that I was invited to years ago, and I want to say there was about it was it wasn't like an an um you know, like there's sorority things and they they like do like a like a hashing or whatever.
• 36:23
  Polly Mertens: So like more people apply.
• 36:25
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, somehow like more people start out, but not everybody gets in or something like that.
• 36:29
  Polly Mertens: This wasn't how it was, but let's just say the group was bigger than it ideally was gonna be, just to see who like wanted to get to know each other and could they meet at the same time or whatever.
• 36:38
  Polly Mertens: So there's all these women, like 15 or 16 women, and across the this is during COVID, so we were all sitting separate, right?
• 36:46
  Polly Mertens: And this gal, she starts introducing herself.
• 36:48
  Polly Mertens: So we go around and we introduce ourselves.
• 36:50
  Polly Mertens: I'd never seen her, never met her, didn't know anything about her, and she just was like huge animal rights person, right?
• 36:57
  Polly Mertens: Like had started, you know, all these things for animal rights.
• 37:00
  Polly Mertens: Uh, she was actually part of the women's march, one of the founders of the women's march, um, this and that.
• 37:05
  Polly Mertens: And she just not that she was creating this resume, but she was just like, this is who I am in the world, you know, just like what I stand for.
• 37:12
  Polly Mertens: Sharing about herself.
• 37:14
  Polly Mertens: And I was like, when I heard these things coming about out and just her way of being, I was like, I need to know her.
• 37:22
  Polly Mertens: I I don't know if we're gonna be longtime friends or short-time friends, but of as everybody introduced themselves, it was like, I'm coming for you, you know.
• 37:32
  Polly Mertens: And I went up to her afterward and I said, Can we?
• 37:34
  Polly Mertens: I would like to have take you out for coffee.
• 37:36
  Polly Mertens: Let's uh I just love what you said.
• 37:37
  Polly Mertens: I'd like to get to know you more.
• 37:39
  Polly Mertens: She's one of my dearest friends now to this day.
• 37:42
  Polly Mertens: Like she's in my spirit circle, you know, like for sure, for sure.
• 37:45
  Polly Mertens: And I told this gal was like, like I could just hear who she was being and like what she cared about and how she wasn't there to make, you know, a hundred friends.
• 37:55
  Polly Mertens: It was like she had special friends in her life, you know, and she and she still continues.
• 38:00
  Polly Mertens: I see this in her life, and you are very good at this too, is you selective with who you spend your time with and you invest in those people.
• 38:08
  Polly Mertens: It's not I'm here to have 3,000 friends, I'm here to have quality, meaningful relationships.
• 38:14
  Polly Mertens: And she has time and spends time and invests time with those people, you know, strategically.
• 38:21
  Samantha Pruitt: Like she's okay.
• 38:22
  Samantha Pruitt: So let me play devil's advocate.
• 38:23
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah.
• 38:24
  Samantha Pruitt: So you ping her and say, Hey, Susie, I need to like dial you up with coffee because we got a lot in common.
• 38:33
  Samantha Pruitt: And you know, you resonated.
• 38:34
  Samantha Pruitt: There was a resonation, an energetic resonation, a values resonation, and she blows you off.
• 38:41
  Samantha Pruitt: And then you reach out again the next week and she blows you off.
• 38:45
  Samantha Pruitt: How do you process that, you know, fact that she's not responding and saying, hey, yeah, totally, let's rock and roll, like let's become friends and be together.
• 38:57
  Samantha Pruitt: How in a healthy way without a sense of rejection and making up stories about this whole thing.
• 39:04
  Samantha Pruitt: How would a person handle that?
• 39:06
  Polly Mertens: Well, first thing that came to mind was like, Oh, you're lost, you know, like whatever, you know, just okay, and you can make up any story you want, or you can make up zero story.
• 39:15
  Polly Mertens: She didn't call me back next, you know, just yeah.
• 39:18
  Samantha Pruitt: I mean, I personally would be like, they're not available to new friends right now.
• 39:23
  Samantha Pruitt: Uh, that has nothing to do with me.
• 39:25
  Samantha Pruitt: They just don't have the bandwidth for because I've been that person.
• 39:29
  Samantha Pruitt: Not that I would blow someone off, but I definitely emit points in my life where I get overloaded and I got so much shit going on and so many things I'm trying to balance, including relationships, right?
• 39:40
  Samantha Pruitt: So I just have cycles of my life or year, whatever, where I just I don't have bandwidth for new friends.
• 39:47
  Samantha Pruitt: This has nothing to do with anybody.
• 39:50
  Samantha Pruitt: Totally.
• 39:51
  Samantha Pruitt: Literally, it's I don't have the bandwidth because I do friendships a certain way.
• 39:56
  Polly Mertens: Yeah.
• 39:57
  Samantha Pruitt: Right.
• 39:57
  Samantha Pruitt: I do quality deep friendships, and I do want reciprocal relationships.
• 40:02
  Samantha Pruitt: So I just, if I can't give that to a person, I don't take them on in that way because I just don't feel that's right, you know?
• 40:11
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah.
• 40:11
  Samantha Pruitt: I'm not into a hundred superficial relationships like you were just saying, you know what I mean?
• 40:15
  Samantha Pruitt: So so it can't be a personal thing.
• 40:19
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah.
• 40:19
  Samantha Pruitt: And I think that's a really big challenge for people is not to feel a sense of rejection or immediately turn that mirror like, Susie doesn't want to hang out with me.
• 40:29
  Samantha Pruitt: Why?
• 40:30
  Samantha Pruitt: You know, it's not about it.
• 40:32
  Samantha Pruitt: We don't know what's going on with Susie.
• 40:34
  Samantha Pruitt: She's busy.
• 40:35
  Polly Mertens: Oh, I started to think about like, what?
• 40:37
  Polly Mertens: You know, the the subconscious story that came out of my friend's mouth was um, you know, I just want everyone to like me.
• 40:43
  Polly Mertens: It's like, okay, hold up.
• 40:45
  Polly Mertens: If that were actually true and everybody wanted to be with you and and have time with you, like let's say that you actually got that.
• 40:52
  Polly Mertens: Everybody was like, I want to hang out with you.
• 40:54
  Polly Mertens: I want to, you would be like exhausted.
• 40:57
  Samantha Pruitt: You all need to hold up.
• 40:59
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah.
• 41:01
  Samantha Pruitt: How could you do those relationships well?
• 41:04
  Samantha Pruitt: Is my question to a person like that.
• 41:06
  Samantha Pruitt: Like, you that's not that's you superficially.
• 41:09
  Samantha Pruitt: Okay, this is social media, and that's why we should just call it what it is.
• 41:12
  Samantha Pruitt: This is what we think we're doing on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter and Snapchat and blah blah blah.
• 41:17
  Samantha Pruitt: Is I have so many friends, look at them all liking my thing.
• 41:22
  Samantha Pruitt: What in the hell is that?
• 41:23
  Samantha Pruitt: That is not a relationship.
• 41:25
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, it is not a relationship.
• 41:27
  Samantha Pruitt: There, those are not friendships, yeah.
• 41:30
  Samantha Pruitt: And that in no way defines who you are, the quality of your life, or anything about you.
• 41:37
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, hell no.
• 41:38
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, totally, totally.
• 41:40
  Polly Mertens: So that was you know, one piece of advice, one idea that I had is like know your buy box, know what meaningful friendships.
• 41:48
  Polly Mertens: That's good.
• 41:48
  Polly Mertens: Like you said, like phase of your life, you know, like like is this a time when you have the bandwidth or like maxed out, right?
• 41:57
  Polly Mertens: Whatever.
• 41:57
  Polly Mertens: Um, and I would say, you know, as we were talking about earlier, so I want to call this like testing the dynamic.
• 42:03
  Polly Mertens: If you're finding yourself in the trap, like I did in a relationship that I was in, it was like, and you want to renegotiate, or you want to like, hey, you know, uh I have other needs, or let's let's talk about like you doing the uh exterior and I'll do the interior, whatever the dynamic looks like, right?
• 42:20
  Polly Mertens: Test it, right?
• 42:21
  Polly Mertens: Um so you can pull back a little bit of the giving, giving, giving, right?
• 42:26
  Polly Mertens: Stop initiating.
• 42:27
  Polly Mertens: Don't always be the one like, oh, let's do this, so let's do and see what happens, right?
• 42:32
  Polly Mertens: Or or put it on the table.
• 42:34
  Polly Mertens: Like, I would like you, you know, the request.
• 42:36
  Polly Mertens: Um, I've been doing this up to this point.
• 42:39
  Polly Mertens: I would like to see you start doing that.
• 42:41
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah.
• 42:42
  Samantha Pruitt: See how exactly.
• 42:43
  Samantha Pruitt: I mean, if this is a relationship you have, I hope that you're able to communicate.
• 42:47
  Samantha Pruitt: Right.
• 42:48
  Samantha Pruitt: And that would be the ideal scenario.
• 42:50
  Samantha Pruitt: Is you sit down, you have a conversation like, hey, you know, I'd like to change some dynamics here.
• 42:55
  Samantha Pruitt: And, you know, without judgment or any of those kind of things, like, I'm working more, you're working less.
• 43:00
  Samantha Pruitt: Let's change the dynamics.
• 43:01
  Samantha Pruitt: I'm earning more, you're earning less.
• 43:02
  Samantha Pruitt: Let's change the dynamic.
• 43:03
  Samantha Pruitt: Whatever, however, that all goes.
• 43:05
  Samantha Pruitt: Whatever.
• 43:05
  Samantha Pruitt: But I have done that technique where basically I just stop doing the thing because I find, oh God, I keep getting resentful that every time I find I'm doing your laundry, and I'm like, you know, this is with kids in the house and file, whatever.
• 43:21
  Samantha Pruitt: So like I'm flipping the laundry, I'm folding the laundry, whatever, because I like a clean house, so I'm just gonna use a cleaning thing as an example of that, right?
• 43:28
  Samantha Pruitt: No, no, and then I'm resentful or pissed off or annoyed about it.
• 43:33
  Samantha Pruitt: I bring it up, bring it up, doesn't change.
• 43:35
  Samantha Pruitt: So then I just decide, well, I just should stop doing it.
• 43:39
  Samantha Pruitt: Because last time I checked, I actually have a choice what I put in the washing machine, what I put in the dryer, and what I fold, right?
• 43:47
  Samantha Pruitt: Hello, right?
• 43:49
  Samantha Pruitt: And it's just gonna be something that we need to experience collectively is that I'm not doing it and yours is piling up.
• 43:59
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah.
• 44:00
  Samantha Pruitt: Okay, without being passive aggressive, like if you tried to have dialogue or whatever, like that can be something that you do, and it's quite liberating.
• 44:10
  Samantha Pruitt: And a lot of times, what you'll find this is the hilarious part about it we make up these stories and dramas in our head, the person's oblivious, they just don't even know what the hell you're talking about.
• 44:19
  Samantha Pruitt: About and then they just all of a sudden start doing their own laundry.
• 44:22
  Samantha Pruitt: Okay, the fact that you were doing their laundry, mom, wife, partner, whatever forever.
• 44:29
  Samantha Pruitt: You did the damn laundry.
• 44:31
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah.
• 44:31
  Samantha Pruitt: Exactly.
• 44:33
  Samantha Pruitt: Totally.
• 44:33
  Samantha Pruitt: Don't blame them.
• 44:34
  Samantha Pruitt: Who doesn't want their laundry done?
• 44:36
  Polly Mertens: You know, and I have to, you know, raise my hand here.
• 44:39
  Polly Mertens: I went about it a different way.
• 44:40
  Polly Mertens: So mine was just silent the old the resentment, right?
• 44:45
  Polly Mertens: And instead of speaking up for my needs, I just withdrew myself more and more and exited the relationship.
• 44:53
  Polly Mertens: That's what it was like.
• 44:54
  Polly Mertens: And that's one technique.
• 44:56
  Polly Mertens: That's that's one way of doing it.
• 44:58
  Polly Mertens: If you don't see it, you know.
• 45:00
  Polly Mertens: But I had all these considerations, like, oh, well, they won't, they won't say yes, or they won't love me, or this could lead to whatever, you know, like backlash or all sorts of things made up, right?
• 45:13
  Polly Mertens: I have no idea how it would have gone.
• 45:15
  Polly Mertens: But I chose the avoiding conflict, avoiding the negotiation, because that person actually is a very good negotiator, very good deal maker, and I knew that I would be outnumbered in terms of skills.
• 45:28
  Polly Mertens: So I just went, okay.
• 45:31
  Polly Mertens: So I just took myself out.
• 45:33
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, but not again.
• 45:34
  Polly Mertens: But so it but it's awareness, you know.
• 45:36
  Polly Mertens: So like now I'm like, I've learned so much in preparing for this episode.
• 45:41
  Polly Mertens: I'm I I just love this podcast.
• 45:42
  Polly Mertens: It's so good.
• 45:43
  Samantha Pruitt: You know, I would say about this relationship dynamic thing that we're talking about right now, I just I a shout out to my son.
• 45:50
  Samantha Pruitt: I remember when he first left home and went to college.
• 45:52
  Samantha Pruitt: Well, he lived in the dorms initially, which was insane.
• 45:55
  Samantha Pruitt: But anyway, no one wants to live in a small room with three grown-ass uh adults trying to get a college education and function at a high level.
• 46:03
  Samantha Pruitt: That was a disaster.
• 46:05
  Samantha Pruitt: But when he went into a housemate situation and a shared housing situation outside of the dorms, so now there's a kitchen and you know, there's a house to keep, there's bathrooms and kitchen, whatever he's definitely my son.
• 46:17
  Samantha Pruitt: So literally, we went to visit the first week or whatever, and already had a giant note above the sink.
• 46:23
  Samantha Pruitt: Do your damn dishes.
• 46:25
  Samantha Pruitt: And he's gay, by the way, which is perfect.
• 46:27
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah.
• 46:28
  Samantha Pruitt: And there was all this like clarity of communication around the house about maybe they sat down and they made house rules because they all came from very different experiences and upbringings, right?
• 46:39
  Samantha Pruitt: So you can't expect you're gonna be on the same page.
• 46:42
  Samantha Pruitt: Come the hell on.
• 46:43
  Samantha Pruitt: And if you're dating someone, you can't expect that they were raised exactly the same and they live this.
• 46:48
  Samantha Pruitt: That's just not real.
• 46:49
  Samantha Pruitt: So communication, people.
• 46:51
  Polly Mertens: Well, and I just want to say, like, maybe we'll do an episode on this because I remember the phase of growing up where the note tenant or the roommate note thing was a thing.
• 47:00
  Polly Mertens: It's it's pretty toxic, actually.
• 47:02
  Polly Mertens: So there's that's it's a it's a fear of communicating and creating agreements.
• 47:07
  Polly Mertens: It could be a reminder, like dishes, you know, or something like that.
• 47:10
  Samantha Pruitt: But I can remember going through the phases and I've done it too, like putting notes in the fridge, like throw your shit away or something, you know, like but if you communicate and you set up rules and you're in a shared situation and people are not uh making that happen, it could be because they just really weren't raised that way.
• 47:29
  Samantha Pruitt: They have bad habits, okay, or whatever you want to call them.
• 47:32
  Polly Mertens: Different habits than you.
• 47:33
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 47:33
  Samantha Pruitt: Different habits than you.
• 47:34
  Polly Mertens: Maybe different standards that we all live in and stuff, you know.
• 47:38
  Polly Mertens: Totally.
• 47:38
  Polly Mertens: I remember living with some girls that were so clean and so perfect, and they cooked and they cleaned right away.
• 47:43
  Polly Mertens: And I was like, what world did you guys?
• 47:46
  Polly Mertens: You know, that's not the family I grew up in, you know.
• 47:48
  Polly Mertens: And I I I've actually I grew I did better going to college because of the bad habits that my family taught me.
• 47:56
  Polly Mertens: You know, I grew out of them.
• 47:59
  Samantha Pruitt: So but in a relationship too.
• 48:01
  Samantha Pruitt: So you're dating, and when you're dating, you learn a lot about each other.
• 48:05
  Polly Mertens: Yeah.
• 48:06
  Samantha Pruitt: Last time I checked, okay, and um, since I was recently having a conversation about dating with my young 18-year-old grandson, you know, it was like, well, you really see who a person is, but you need to start asking questions.
• 48:18
  Samantha Pruitt: You don't put your best foot forward.
• 48:19
  Samantha Pruitt: Okay, I'm gonna be the perfect person.
• 48:21
  Samantha Pruitt: So you pick me, pick me, pick me, pick me.
• 48:23
  Samantha Pruitt: But that's not actually how I live my life at all.
• 48:26
  Polly Mertens: You're send your representative.
• 48:27
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, send your representative to date.
• 48:29
  Polly Mertens: That totally classic line, you know, it's like right.
• 48:31
  Polly Mertens: I I am I'm this well put together.
• 48:33
  Polly Mertens: I'm always shaved.
• 48:35
  Polly Mertens: Dude, have you seen the online dating apps?
• 48:38
  Samantha Pruitt: I have not.
• 48:39
  Samantha Pruitt: What the tomfoolery is this bullshit?
• 48:42
  Polly Mertens: Oh no, some people do not.
• 48:43
  Polly Mertens: No, I have seen the dating apps for men in their 50s, and so they they are not putting their best foot forward, I must tell you.
• 48:50
  Polly Mertens: It's all about the fish.
• 48:51
  Polly Mertens: They love showing you their, you know, their because why?
• 48:55
  Samantha Pruitt: You're gonna feed me fish when we're dating.
• 48:57
  Samantha Pruitt: Are we going fishing every weekend and you're gonna feed me fish?
• 48:59
  Samantha Pruitt: What is going on?
• 49:00
  Samantha Pruitt: I know.
• 49:01
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, let's do that on another episode.
• 49:03
  Samantha Pruitt: But I totally get you.
• 49:04
  Samantha Pruitt: I totally get you.
• 49:06
  Polly Mertens: Anyways, yeah.
• 49:07
  Samantha Pruitt: So okay, what else can people do?
• 49:09
  Polly Mertens: So, you know, and this was actually my marriage.
• 49:13
  Polly Mertens: So this is an earlier relationship.
• 49:15
  Polly Mertens: So one of the things I want to say is so choose based on evidence, not hope.
• 49:20
  Polly Mertens: So I say that I married my husband's potential, you know, and it's like, don't be thinking like, oh, this will change, or maybe I can whatever, hope your way out of it, right?
• 49:31
  Polly Mertens: Believe what people show you, like what they're doing, and you know, like you said, after the first date, you know, like go to their home.
• 49:38
  Polly Mertens: Like, you know, I went to my soon-to-be hus, and he's got his bed's on the floor.
• 49:43
  Polly Mertens: Like that should have been a sign.
• 49:44
  Polly Mertens: Like the mattress was on the floor, you know.
• 49:46
  Polly Mertens: He's a contractor, so like the whole house was torn up and bed on the floor.
• 49:50
  Polly Mertens: It's like, oh, he's like mid-transition.
• 49:52
  Polly Mertens: Uh like it was like that for six months.
• 49:54
  Polly Mertens: I was like, oh, hold up, you're gonna need to finish this house.
• 49:57
  Polly Mertens: Like, you need to, you know, anyway.
• 49:59
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, I there was so many glaring signs.
• 50:02
  Polly Mertens: I was like, yeah, I married the potential in that relationship.
• 50:06
  Polly Mertens: So just um, you know, look at that.
• 50:08
  Polly Mertens: Look at that.
• 50:09
  Polly Mertens: So people show you who they are, believe them, and you know, look at that, you know, that imbalance, or like knowing that if you have a tendency to overgiving, or if any of this resonated for you, like it's not, it's just a survival pattern, right?
• 50:23
  Polly Mertens: So now it's not hidden, it's not in your subconscious.
• 50:26
  Polly Mertens: If you're hearing this, it's now in your awareness.
• 50:29
  Polly Mertens: You you have something to look here, and you know, being overly nice, easy, compliant, invisible, not rock, you know, whatever.
• 50:38
  Polly Mertens: Um, your needs above mine, that got you so far, right?
• 50:42
  Polly Mertens: But it's gonna lead to the resentment, is like the you know, that kindness will lead to resentment.
• 50:47
  Polly Mertens: That's not yummy, you know, like get your damn needs met.
• 50:50
  Polly Mertens: And I'm speaking to myself here as I'm talking out loud.
• 50:53
  Samantha Pruitt: So yeah, you should have your needs met.
• 50:55
  Samantha Pruitt: You first of all, you should know what your needs are.
• 50:58
  Samantha Pruitt: Yeah, you should communicate said needs, and you should have your needs met.
• 51:03
  Samantha Pruitt: You're not a bad person if you have needs, you're not a bad person if you speak up for yourself, you're not a bad person if you have boundaries.
• 51:11
  Samantha Pruitt: You know, this cultural or religious or societal programming around how we're all supposed to operate with each other is pretty much bullshit half the time, you know?
• 51:22
  Samantha Pruitt: And it's totally fine at this point in our lives for us all to just sort of call it like it is and rewrite the rule book.
• 51:30
  Polly Mertens: Yeah, yeah.
• 51:30
  Polly Mertens: So, you know, think about this.
• 51:33
  Polly Mertens: Isn't about this is about your self-worth, not about selfishness, you know, because some of the the languaging that we hear is like, don't be selfish, that person's selfish, and whatever that sounded like when you were little and how bad of a, you know, it's like don't, you know, rich people like have like people that don't have money throw a lot on that.
• 51:51
  Polly Mertens: But there's a lot of rich people that are amazing human beings and give and contribute and stuff.
• 51:55
  Polly Mertens: Same thing for people who take care of their needs and who, you know, stand up for themselves, right?
• 52:00
  Polly Mertens: So selfish, you know, so it's not about selfishness, it's about your self-worth and you're not too much.
• 52:06
  Polly Mertens: You're not too much.
• 52:08
  Polly Mertens: You just need to invest where it's gonna grow, right?
• 52:11
  Polly Mertens: Like you're not too much.
• 52:12
  Polly Mertens: Look for reciprocity, right?
• 52:14
  Polly Mertens: Like it doesn't have, you know, I don't think going into relationships like this transactional thing, but just notice where that bank account may be, you know, where you find yourself overreaching, overinitiating, over giving, over caring, their needs, right?
• 52:30
  Polly Mertens: Are they okay over there?
• 52:32
  Polly Mertens: Right.
• 52:32
  Polly Mertens: So you deserve people who light you up.
• 52:35
  Polly Mertens: You deserve people who see you and want to contribute to you, to see you and want to light you up, right?
• 52:42
  Polly Mertens: Exactly.
• 52:43
  Polly Mertens: Exactly.
• 52:44
  Polly Mertens: So that's that's what we got.
• 52:47
  Polly Mertens: So uh what's the what's the one thing that from this you want people to to leave with?
• 52:52
  Polly Mertens: What did you hear as like a real ding?
• 52:55
  Samantha Pruitt: Like I mean, at the core of a lot of it, whether it's wanting to be liked, needing to be needed, wanting to be wanted, this trap we're referring to, at a core of uh a lot of that dysfunctional behavior, if you will, is this lack of self-worth and understanding about yourself and what your value is, intrinsically, just like who you are, just being born and breathing and being a human being, right?
• 53:24
  Samantha Pruitt: And not having it have to be earned, rewarded in any way, shape, or form.
• 53:30
  Samantha Pruitt: Like it's not something you have to earn, you know, and that's a big overcoming for many, many of us.
• 53:36
  Samantha Pruitt: That's a long journey, but let's all get busy on the path to accomplishing that over the course of our lifetime.
• 53:43
  Samantha Pruitt: That's what I want for people.
• 53:45
  Samantha Pruitt: Love that.
• 53:46
  Polly Mertens: I love that.
• 53:46
  Polly Mertens: For me, I would say just have the awareness.
• 53:51
  Polly Mertens: If any of this resonated, so I'm like walking around like whole, like I have a new level of awareness of how I'm being.
• 53:57
  Polly Mertens: So if I find either resentment showing up or looking to give or you know, add that value or contribute or just whatever, um, I'm just gonna check that.
• 54:10
  Polly Mertens: Just like check that and be like, hold up, why do I need to feel like I have to whatever, you know, and just yeah, add value, add value by breathing.
• 54:18
  Polly Mertens: Yeah.
• 54:18
  Polly Mertens: So it's been good.
• 54:21
  Polly Mertens: And uh I hope people have gotten something out of this.
• 54:24
  Polly Mertens: I sure did.
• 54:25
  Polly Mertens: So thank you for listening and thank you for uh your contributions, my dear, because your framing and how you are supporting this young man that's now in you guys' life, you know, your your grandson is gonna be so beautiful.
• 54:38
  Polly Mertens: I'm sure there's gonna be great episodes coming up with that relationship and that dynamic.
• 54:43
  Polly Mertens: So yeah.
• 54:44
  Polly Mertens: All right, you guys.
• 54:46
  Polly Mertens: Well, what do we want to remind our beautiful humans as we sign off today?
• 54:49
  Polly Mertens: As we always do.
• 54:50
  Samantha Pruitt: How your life feels is so much more important than how it looks.
• 54:54
  Polly Mertens: Yes, and every day is your opportunity to find your awesome.
• 54:58
  Samantha Pruitt: All right, we'll see you next time.